Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Nov 13, 2014 2:13 pm

I did feel bad for our soldiers who got beat up in Turkey. Made me sick.

User avatar
Rick Keeney
Posts: 1099
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:40 pm
Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Rick Keeney » Thu Nov 13, 2014 3:18 pm

FrankChurch wrote:They also see the war on terror as a Christian crusade against Islam.


We were responding to what you said about Christians being poor fighters, thinking you'd respect your own assertion and respond to a rebuttal.

Can we talk about one thing at a time?

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Nov 14, 2014 1:11 pm

Did you guys know that we are not allowed to aid countries who do human rights violations? One of our big crimes.

User avatar
Steve Barber
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:02 am
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Barber » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:14 am

FrankChurch wrote:Did you guys know that we are not allowed to aid countries who do human rights violations? One of our big crimes.


Actually, not true.

By policy we don't aid those countries when the aid ends up in government hands instead of aiding the needy. Personally I heartily agree with that policy.

Is there a specific example you want to discuss?
All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
Steve Barber
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:02 am
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Barber » Sat Nov 15, 2014 9:22 am

AndrewR wrote:
Secularism and war go together.


Sectarianism and war go together

Fixed it for you.


The vast majority of wars throughout history have been waged because of religious ideologies, or had significant overtones of them. The current war with ISIS and the destructiveness of Boko Haram are simply the most recent examples. The Balkans wars; the Crusades; the ethnic cleansing in SouthEast Asia and middle Europe; the wars and ethnic cleansing in Africa; the conquests of the Roman Empire; the wars between Pakistan and India; the wars in Afghanistan...

Even World War II...or are we ignoring the Holocaust?

The VAST majority of wars have a religious content to them.
All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
AndrewR
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 6:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby AndrewR » Sun Nov 16, 2014 12:18 pm

Steve Barber wrote:
AndrewR wrote:
Secularism and war go together.


Sectarianism and war go together

Fixed it for you.


The vast majority of wars throughout history have been waged because of religious ideologies, or had significant overtones of them. The current war with ISIS and the destructiveness of Boko Haram are simply the most recent examples. The Balkans wars; the Crusades; the ethnic cleansing in SouthEast Asia and middle Europe; the wars and ethnic cleansing in Africa; the conquests of the Roman Empire; the wars between Pakistan and India; the wars in Afghanistan...

Even World War II...or are we ignoring the Holocaust?

The VAST majority of wars have a religious content to them.


Exactly my point. :mrgreen:

I can't understand Frank's thought process in the original comment. One moment he's blaming religion for its role in many of humanity's conflicts then a few comments later he's blaming secularism. I'm getting a headache watching the gymnastics involved. :?
Andrew Rogers

"Anything more than 500 yds from the car just isn't photogenic." - Brett Weston

User avatar
Steve Barber
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 8:02 am
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Barber » Sun Nov 16, 2014 1:39 pm

AndrewR wrote:One moment he's blaming religion for its role in many of humanity's conflicts then a few comments later he's blaming secularism.


There are several opinions held regarding why Frank at times seems to have several, often conflicting points of view -- ranging from multiple people posing as Frank, or to him being a singular person who is simply trying to vigorously stir the pot. Consistency not required in either case.

Or he simply isn't bothering to think about his posts before he puts them up, reacting on the spur of the moment to individual arguments without concern for the overall positioning.
All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Nov 16, 2014 2:56 pm

Nooooooooooooooo, I said Christianity has advocated many really awful things, we have done lots of violence but--the biggest but--nation states do the most violence. Our economic system a form of quiet violence. One hundred million in India alone! No religion beats that.

----------

They actually have to train Ferguson police how to follow the Constitution. Shouldn't they know that? Law and order is not about rights but about exerting power.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Nov 16, 2014 3:41 pm

Our side has been called kooks for years and our books banned when we brought up that America worked with former Nazis after the war. Now the NY Times can finally report about Project Paperclip and they can finally admit our collusion with the dregs of humanity. Thank you so much elite media. Fifty years late.

Former nazis even got Social Security. Where's Ted Cruz? And, Bill O'Reilly, will you admit now that your hero General Patton was anti-semitic?

User avatar
Ezra Lb.
Posts: 4547
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:02 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:43 am

Our side has been called kooks for years and our books banned when we brought up that America worked with former Nazis after the war. Now the NY Times can finally report about Project Paperclip and they can finally admit our collusion with the dregs of humanity. Thank you so much elite media. Fifty years late.

Is this what you're talking about?

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/02/books ... .html?_r=0

The journalist Annie Jacobsen’s “Operation Paperclip” is not the first unveiling of the program. The New York Times, Newsweek and other media outlets exposed Paperclip as early as December 1946. Albert Einstein, Eleanor Roosevelt and Rabbi Steven Wise publicly opposed the program, and according to a Gallup poll, most Americans at the time considered it a “bad” idea.

Nasty stuff no doubt but no big conspiracy of silence.

Frank you need to get out more.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

User avatar
AndrewR
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 22, 2003 6:33 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby AndrewR » Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:53 am

FrankChurch wrote:Our side has been called kooks for years and our books banned when we brought up that America worked with former Nazis after the war. Now the NY Times can finally report about Project Paperclip and they can finally admit our collusion with the dregs of humanity. Thank you so much elite media. Fifty years late.

Former nazis even got Social Security. Where's Ted Cruz? And, Bill O'Reilly, will you admit now that your hero General Patton was anti-semitic?


Our side? Who is "our side"?

Also, it's been well known for a long time that Patton was a vile anti-semite. Not news.
Andrew Rogers

"Anything more than 500 yds from the car just isn't photogenic." - Brett Weston

User avatar
FinderDoug
Posts: 1530
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:00 pm

Our side has been called kooks for years and our books banned when we brought up that America worked with former Nazis after the war. Now the NY Times can finally report about Project Paperclip and they can finally admit our collusion with the dregs of humanity. Thank you so much elite media. Fifty years late.
Funniest thing I've read in weeks. More banned book hysteria. More secret plots the media ignored for decades that have actually been known and reported since the time they originally happened.

I should pop popcorn before I come in here.

Near as I know, no one was censured for discussing it at the time it happened (and it was everywhere; mainstream newspapers, weekly magazines, hell, even Popular Science mentioned it.) Clarence Lasby never turned up in ditch for his 1971 book Project Paperclip: German Scientists and the Cold War; nor did John Loftus for The Belarus Secret: The Nazi Connection in America in 1989. Hell, Chris Carter used Paperclip as a plot point in a X-Files episode in 1995 watched by 17 million viewers that week. History Channel has talked about it, just about any competent history of postwar Nazi Germany or of the development of rockets/missiles by the US has discussed it. Half the obits of Wernher Von Braun mentioned it. Janet Reno (as reported in the New York Times in 1999) appointed a prosecutor to look into whether it constituted a crime. And so on. And so on. And so on.

To claim no one has reported on Operation Paperclip in the last fifty years and imply some kind of media conspiracy of silence? That's a flat-out distortion of history to suit your rhetorical purposes. You disagree? Then name just one banned book about Operation Paperclip (title/author) and when/how it was banned.

The credibility of you claim rests in your evidence. In the absence of evidence to support your accusation? Well, there might be OTHER reasons your "side" is called "kooks", y'know.

Mark Tiedemann
Posts: 2575
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:00 pm

There were a lot of anti-semites prior to WWII who nevertheless believed the Nazis had crossed a line and reviled them for it. British anti-semitism was fairly entrenched, as it was in most places, and yet the moral condemnation of the Final Solution was pretty immediate once the camps were found and liberated.

Frank, I knew about Operation Paperclip when I was ten years old. I didn't know it was called that, but I knew what we were doing. Where's this secrecy and denial you keep harping on? Which, btw, also fails to differentiate between dedicated Nazis and those who took party affiliation for reasons of expedience and survival. You get very upset when we castigate ALL christians and fail to deliniate between mainstream christians and fundies. Are you going to refute the fact that many party members were so in the same way many Americans are affiliated with a party? There are a lot of Republicans who are quite distinct from the Tea Bag variety, yet both are seen as Republican.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:01 pm

Why didn't the publisher tell O'Reilly, sorry, Bill, you cannot do a book with that title?

User avatar
FinderDoug
Posts: 1530
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Mon Nov 17, 2014 12:05 pm

And, Bill O'Reilly, will you admit now that your hero General Patton was anti-semitic?
Pretty sure he doesn't read your posts here, Frank.


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests