Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:59 pm

Barber, lookie, lookie:

http://weaselzippers.us/wp-content/uplo ... 50x430.jpg

I will be more full-throated on monday. Let you guys recuperate.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:05 pm

Frank

That picture proves WHAT? That Ms. Clinton will shake hands with just about anyone if it's part of doing her job? That the lady can smile despite it all?

You may want to learn something about diplomacy before you try proving your point dear.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:50 pm

Lori, monday, Lori, monday.

She called me dear? How sexist. Runz.

Light kiss.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:11 pm

No more sexist than the way you treat me Frank.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Sun Jan 02, 2011 4:40 pm

There is a long tradition of photo ops with foreign dictators. Shaking hands makes one a diplomat, not an advocate.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:56 pm

Why would almost the entire left support a dictator? We haven't all gone mental.

Tariq Ali, Chomsky, Mark Weisbrot, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn, Greg Grandin, Eva Gollinger, are we all insane Barberoni?

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:32 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Why would almost the entire left support a dictator? We haven't all gone mental.

Tariq Ali, Chomsky, Mark Weisbrot, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn, Greg Grandin, Eva Gollinger, are we all insane Barberoni?


No, but I'm curious as to why all of you DO support a dictator. He wasn't such a few years ago, but as I've noted: if it walks like a duck...talks like a duck...and usurps power like a duck...


Even more to the point, why do you continue to argue "rule by decree" isn't a dictatorial step?
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Jan 03, 2011 5:41 pm

Hey Frank

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't a lot of American Intelectuals "endorse" both Pol Pot and the entire Veit Nam regimes as well?

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby RocRizzo » Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:19 pm

Lori,
I don't know of any "intellectual" who would have endorsed Pol Pot. I KNOW that Chomsky doesn't, and Zinn didn't. Those are two names that I personally respect.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:45 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Why would almost the entire left support a dictator? We haven't all gone mental.

Tariq Ali, Chomsky, Mark Weisbrot, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn, Greg Grandin, Eva Gollinger, are we all insane Barberoni?


It's not necessary to be insane to be just wrong.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:11 am

Rocco

That part of my American History class is woefully lacking!

Thanks for the edumacation!

Lori

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby RocRizzo » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:22 am

Lori,
If you want to learn some the American History that was not taught to you, in ANY school, go get a copy of Howard Zinn's classic, "A People's History of the United States." It covers dates from 1492-2005. Any good book store, or library should have it. You can get online in print, e-book, mp3, and other audio formats at any good e-tailer.

PS-- After that, you'll be reading Zinn, Chomsky, and others, in no time, to find out more.

If you are seeking some ACTUAL Left Wing propaganda and philosophy, There are lots of great lectures on alternative radio. www.alternativeradio.org
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Tue Jan 04, 2011 11:38 am

Interesting that Pol Pot's name would come up. I think what Frank and others might be missing is the difference between a cruel dictatorship -- such as Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler, or the assorted North Korean Kims -- and more of what my High School World Civilization teacher might have referred to as "enlightened despotisms" such as Chavez, Castro and Tito.

However, and this is critical to understanding the difference between "democratic republic" and "dictatorship", all of them claim(ed) popular support and yet rule(d) by decree. Any governmental entity in which the top and most powerful individual (or group of individuals) is given such powers is a de facto dictatorship. When the "people's body", such as a Congress or Parliament cannot overrule the leadership -- and in the case of Chavez where he was specifically granted such powers to prevent an overruling -- then it becomes a de facto dictatorship.

"As he signed the legislation, Chavez mocked opposition politicians. "They will not be able to create even one law, little Yankees," he said. "We will win ... let's see how they are going to make laws now."

The responsibility given Parliament in Venezuela? Make the laws.

In fact, an article in the French press (Agence France-Presse) observed

CARACAS, Venezuela - Opposition parties take up gains in Venezuela's National Assembly Wednesday but President Hugo Chavez has countered the loss of his supermajority by taking on special decree powers and reining in dissent.

A raft of new laws pushed through last month by the then mainly pro-Chavez assembly were decried as a "coup d'etat" by opposition politicians in the oil-rich South American nation.

Internet content and broadcast media freedoms have been restricted, lawmakers who switch parties face punishment, and, crucially, the president is entitled to pass laws by decree for the next 18 months.


He controls the media, can rule by decree, and cracks down on his opposition. If this is not a dictatorship, I breathlessly await your definition of one, Frank.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:07 pm

Decree comes from the French Parliament. A directive by the Prime Minister. A Presidential executive order is also a decree. Does that make Obama a dictator?

The President can let anyone he likes from prison, even Satan. Some would consider that dictatorial. Surely the Unitary executive is close.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:51 pm

Rashid Khalidi schools us once again:

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/11384


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