Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:30 pm

Oh, oh:

http://normanfinkelstein.com/2014/are-h ... s-illegal/

--------

On another issue: I notice Venezuela don't have groups of children coming over our border. I thought it was a dictatorship? Wink.

User avatar
Robert Nason
Posts: 1580
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:50 am
Location: New York City

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:18 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Israel intelligence is right up there with North Korea.

I not sure if Frank is complimenting or insulting Israel.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby robochrist » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:24 pm

If someone gives me some facts that challenge an argument I hold to firmly, I can Flamenco around them as well as the NEXT adherente!

I now know 2 people with this proclivity.When a body wants to believe something,nothing matters and debate goes no where! It's like the cronies on the Supreme Court and the freaks in Congress.

User avatar
Robert Nason
Posts: 1580
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:50 am
Location: New York City

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:36 pm

FrankChurch wrote: NBC pulled its reporter from Gaza. I feel the lobby is controlling the narrative.

FrankChurch wrote: NBC news is saying something different Barber.

So did the Israel lobby suddenly stop controlling the narrative at NBC the minute they said something you like?

Either NBC is controlled by the Israel lobby or they're not. You can't have it both ways, Frank.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby robochrist » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:41 pm

Here's a slightly logical question:

Israel takes extensive reproach from all over the world for its tactics, almost to the point of being isolated.

Do you really believe they would CHOOSE or PREFER that position to a negotiated peace settlement? What reason would they have for firing missles at Hamas, other than that they are attacked everytime there is ceasefire? Hamas, like other terrorist organizations, show the world their operations as little as possible, but when Israel retaliates they air images of the tragic deaths instantly. WHAT does that tell you???

You know what I'd love to see? A news show going inside both sectors and getting interviews from civilians, both Israeli and Palistinean. They are the ones caught in the cross-fire but they remain the most invisible, the most anonymous in all the reports we watch. I think their faces and their voices would lend a little more clarity to the situation in both camps.

Hamas - which is not being favored by the Palistineans - needs to be discredited and thrown out; and Israel has to be more accountable for the mounting seige. Unlike Frank, however, I'm realistic enough to concede that's easy for me to say from where I sit. Nothing is really going to change until Hamas GOES!

DanielBarron
Posts: 46
Joined: Mon May 24, 2004 8:41 pm
Location: Canuckistan

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby DanielBarron » Tue Jul 22, 2014 6:58 pm

The U.N. is, apparently, controlled by the The Lobby. :shock:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/02/world ... wanted=all

User avatar
Robert Nason
Posts: 1580
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:50 am
Location: New York City

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Tue Jul 22, 2014 8:44 pm

GODWIN'S LAW

Godwin’s Law is something that’s come into prominence with debate about the devolution of discourse on websites. For those unfamiliar, Godwin’s Law has now entered the Oxford English Dictionary, but here, since it is an Internet phenomenon, is a somewhat more expansive (and net-native) Wikipedia entry: “Godwin’s Law (also known as Godwin’s Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin’s Law of Nazi Analogies) is an assertion made by Mike Godwin in 1990 that has become an Internet adage. It states: ‘As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.’” -- Ron Rosenbaum
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:06 am

Don't worry Nason you have Chuck Schumer on your side. He made some pretty sick statements on Hardball last night. Chris Matthews is a sick arab hater too.

Schumer is mad at the Times for saying Israel has done anything wrong. That's worse than even the side of most posters here. What's the point of having democrats if they hate arabs too.

Mike Bloomberg can stay there.

--------

I was going to ask Doug what he thought of the way the police treated Bruce Springsteen when he did the 41 Shots song? They threatened him, saying they may not guard him.

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 10607
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:18 am

Frank, there are times for hyperbole and times where it's just absurdist commentary.

In this case you're completely mischaracterizing what each of them said. Neither Matthews nor Schumer are "Arab haters". I watched the show as well. They spoke out strongly against the terrorists who launched the attacks on Israel.

If the only way you can make your points is to take up lying about things then clearly you don't have enough reasonable conclusions to support your POV.

BTW -- Your blinders must be on again. You've not responded to my clear connection between Hamas and hiding behind the skirts of civilians.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:58 am

There's no evidence of it. The bombing of the Al Jazeera site proves that. And as I have said, the rockets stop when the siege stops. The FAA ruling is hurting Israel's economy. But why would Israel want tourists if there are these vast terrorist threats? Nobody is recommending visiting Syria.

On Hardball I saw no sympathy for Palestinians.

----------

Ok, we need something funny to lower the sting:

http://stopmasturbationnow.org/self-rap ... sin-zones/

Now that's fun with blasphemy.

It is obviously a joke site.

I hope.

----------

Nason, what was with the incident at the Brooklyn Bridge? Somebody took the American flags and put white flags as replacements. You have to admit, that took skill. It has to be some right wing group. Why would the left put up a white flag?

Some idiot in NY called the incident terrorism. Not really, right?

User avatar
FinderDoug
Posts: 1530
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 1:58 pm
Location: Houston, TX
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Wed Jul 23, 2014 12:59 pm

Frank - Your facts are slightly misaligned. The NYPD didn't threaten Bruce Springsteen; the president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association of New York City sent a letter to membership encouraging them to boycott his show, both as attendees and as security workers (a secondary security gig that any number of officers might pick up from time to time). It's a little different than you characterize, with you making it sound like "the police" act as Bruce's personal bodyguards and were going to maybe let something bad happen to him because they were put out, Tony Soprano-style cops saying "Maybe you have some nut job jump on the stage, maybe HE wants to get in 41 shots, maybe we won't BE there for you, smart ass." Which is only missing a mustache twirl at the end.

That said, to your question: the PBA showed remarkably thin skin, though not unexpectedly - they'd been living with the Diallo shooting and its fallout for sixteen months at that point, including the criminal trial and civil settlement with the family, and here comes Bruce ready to whip everyone up again; but their main beef was a completely wrong-headed one that the song was about racial profiling. There's not a single reference to race. The only direct references to the Amadou Diallo shooting are the "41 Shots" refrain and a mention of a wallet; the only named people in the song are Lena (a mother) and her son Charles, who she admonishes, if stopped by an officer, to "always be polite", "never, ever run away" and "keep your hands in sight". If anything, it's a condemnation/cautionary song about police overreaction, and living in a world where your motives and actions can easily be misinterpreted by men with guns who don't know your motivation and might respond out of scale with what YOU think you're doing.

***

As for the choke hold on Eric Garner, a couple final bits:
1) Still haven't seen your evidence in accusing Daniel Pantaleo of murder (don't worry - I'm not holding my breath; I know you have none.)

2) I'm glad you think riots are a sane, reasoned. "in line" response to a criminal acquittal. Not sure what it says, that you feel violence is an answer -- especially violence that more often than not destroys the property of people uninvolved, encourages the looting of independently owned neighborhood stores, and potentially kills MORE innocent people -- but that's the horse rooting for. Ask your new teammate Rev. Al to tell you about Crown Heights or Freddy's Fashion Mart some time.

User avatar
Robert Nason
Posts: 1580
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 1:50 am
Location: New York City

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Robert Nason » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:18 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Nasson, what was with the incident at the Brooklyn Bridge? Somebody took the American flags and put white flags as replacements. You have to admit, that took skill. It has to be some right wing group. Why would the left put up a white flag?

I really have no idea what the "statement" the white flag on the Brooklyn Bridge was meant to be. That we should surrender (but to who?) or that we've already surrendered (but to who?) Nobody else seems to know what it meant, either, which makes it a pretty poor political pronouncement in my view, assuming it was political, which I suppose in some way it was. I'm amused that you assume that because it took skill to remove the flag and replace it with the white one, it's evidence of a right-wing group. Are you saying that left-wing groups lack skill? Not very complimentary to your side! Apparently there's video of the group that replaced the flag, but it was at night and it's hard to identify the people. It will be interesting to see what comes of this strange incident.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:19 pm

I feel he did murder him, since the gentleman pleaded with the cops and kept saying, "I can't breathe." Why didn't the cop stop? You also know for a fact that police rarely get tried for brutality even though it is rampant, compared to the charges by the black community over the years.

I loathe Al Sharpton, this is a man who said he would not ever criticize Barack Obama and has done no Gaza reports on his show. He did interview Condi Rice.

Sharpton is far from his old self. He seems to be part of the established media now.

I personally cannot stand him.

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 10607
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:21 pm

FrankChurch wrote:There's no evidence of it.


You evidently didn't even bother to read the BBC article. Evidence and proof of it are everywhere. Denying evidence doesn't make reality inaccurate. Just ask the climate change deniers.

FrankChurch wrote:The bombing of the Al Jazeera site proves that.


Huh? Obviously you think there's a connection here somewhere, but it's lost on me.

FrankChurch wrote:And as I have said, the rockets stop when the siege stops. The FAA ruling is hurting Israel's economy. But why would Israel want tourists if there are these vast terrorist threats? Nobody is recommending visiting Syria.


I think much of the issue is that you're picking and choosing when events start and stop. Hamas shoots missiles on Monday. Israel retaliates on Tuesday. In your opinion, any response from Hamas must be as a result of Tuesday's events, rather than Tuesday being in response to Monday.

This is where we return to your inability to see any good in Israelis and anything bad in Palestinians. In very real terms, you have what they call a "siege mentality" in which only one POV is reasonable. It occurs in hyper-partisan situations in which an aggrieved party sees no further than their own interest, discarding any valid data which disagrees with their view of the world.

If one didn't know any better, one might assume you are Palestinian and a member of Hamas.

FrankChurch wrote: On Hardball I saw no sympathy for Palestinians.


There's a vast difference for a lack of sympathy for Hamas -- which Palestinians voted into office -- and being anti-Arab. Plenty of Arabs despise what Hamas does and represents.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 10607
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Wed Jul 23, 2014 1:34 pm

Perhaps even clearer: It stands to reason that, after decades of conflict, Hamas knows precisely what the response to provocation will be. Israel, even if you disagree with them, have been constant in their retaliations. Violence from Hamas has never resulted in concessions from Israel. Dialogue has, but never violence. Not once.

So, I ask this: why does Hamas keep doing the same thing year after year, confrontation after confrontation, knowing what the reply will be? How does this response further the Palestinian cause? Why do they think "this time will be different!"?

Kipling moment: If you want a tiger to leave you alone, you don't poke it with a sharp stick. Furthermore, once that tiger has smacked you several times for poking it, what kind of an idiot continues to keep jabbing, saying it's the tiger's fault for being aggressive?

Assuming they understand the old adage regarding insanity as "doing the same thing but expecting different results", it stands to reason Hamas is seeking Israel's retaliation. Israel has suspended what you call "The Siege" on several occasions, only to be again attacked by Hamas.

If Hamas knows their tactics have never worked, why are they not changing them? As noted, the definition of insanity....
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests