Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:05 am

Where's the politician who will regulate them? It aint Obama.

According to Thomas Ferguson investors decide who runs, who gets elected. The only way to end that is revolutionary politics, as Chris Hedges vets.


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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:33 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Where's the politician who will regulate them? It aint Obama.

According to Thomas Ferguson investors decide who runs, who gets elected. The only way to end that is revolutionary politics, as Chris Hedges vets.


In a constitutional republic the citizens decide and get exactly what they deserve.

Revolutionary politics? You mean jerking off in front of your Che poster?

FAIR one again shows us how outstanding they are at telling us just how awful our media is:

I won't waste my time criticizing (or defending) Richard Holbrooke but it's so typical, Frank, that you and much of the left go on and on and on about fascist this and fascist that but when fascism really appears (i.e. Serbia) you are completely blind to it.

I have never been a fan of Bill Clinton god knows but our intervention brought to an end the repression of Kosovo's Albanian population, and hastened the downfall of Slobodan Milošević's government which was responsible for many war crimes and gross human rights violations.

But I forgot, the USA is the biggest source of evil in the universe , right? So everything we do is evil.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:36 pm

This just in:

Venezuela congress grants Chavez decree powers


CARACAS, Venezuela – Venezuelan lawmakers granted President Hugo Chavez broad powers Friday to enact laws by decree, undermining the clout of a new congress that takes office next month with a bigger opposition bloc.



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101217/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/lt_venezuela_chavez


Frank? This doesn't seem to be very democratic...
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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Dec 18, 2010 1:08 pm

I will keep my powder dry for now.. hehe.

Matters what Hugo does, I'd guess. Their congress responds to the people much more than ours does.

---------------

Ezra, talk about hyperbole. When did I defend Serbia? My only beef was that the bombing intensified the violence. It was a civil war, not a genocide. In civil wars people die.

You forget that Osama Bin Ladin met with the Muslim leader.

My other beef is that we pontificate about Serbia, but care next to nothing about East Timor, which really was a genocide.

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America is a blank slate. You can define anything you want about what a real America looks like. I defend the real America, the one I think should exist in reality, not just on paper, while others defend a mythical America that never existed. I am anti-elite and anti-power. Bring power back to the masses and you will see me wave the flag, knocking Uncle Sam out of the way.

I defend America because I want it to be better, while others hide behind the myth, while the bodies behind the curtain stink and draw flies.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby diane bartels » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:21 pm

Bullshit Frank. in so many ways and on so many levels. Admit it, if Hugo raped old ladies and babies in public, you would defend him. Either because it is all part of the extreme persona you portray here or because you really are that poorly informed. Saying a genocide is not one does not make it true. What the hell is the point of the bin Laden comment. Not even he himself disagrees with the fact that he is a serial killer, responsible for many human deaths. A lot of them American. In the sense that you mean it, the power in america has never resided in the "people" . All our founding fathers were in one way or another elitist. For example, they could read. and owned prop or their own business. The last past century was the one where power was vested in the majority of the people, blacks, women, etc. And while this is the democracy I support wholeheartedly, sometimes the people vote for and support less than wonderful things. Prohibition. the majority in this country supports the war. my mom's family is almost all behind it. A substantial number of people think Pres Obama is a muslim. Your views are the extreme ones Frank. You are entitled to them, and I would defend your absolute right to espouse them. but to pretend they are the views of the majority in this country or even a large minority is delusional. I am one of the most liberal democrAats i know. Yet my views diverge significantly from yours.

And before you can ask, i am just peachy keen fine. Health could be better but christmas is my favorite time of year, I am jolly as an elf, and i dont even have my period in case you were wondering. Just have opinions as strong and as valid as yours. L K Diane

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Dec 18, 2010 2:58 pm

We will poll the people of Venezuela. If they want Chavez stopped, I will agree with them. If not then the haters must stop.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:19 pm

Frank

At least half a dozen people have challenged you to look at the other side of most of the issues you talk about, and each and every time you either get kinda smarmy, or outright refuse?

Don't you see that the best way to win an arguement is to KNOW BEYOND ANY SHADOW OF DOUBT what the other guy thinks? You don't have to agree with it, but it dose make framing your arguements that much more affective. You do want to win right? I ask because sometimes it seems like all you wanna do is blow smoke up your ass.

Right now all you do is give us the Leftie version of Talking points with a little bit of information you expect us to look up for ourselves. If I wanted to know what the author of a book says, I'll read his book. I most the time want to know what you think, and you never really tell us much about that. I have my thoughts about why that may be, but that for another conversation.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:37 pm

Frank -- The reason for the action, if you read the article, is that the people of Venezuela HAVE spoken and are sending a much more contrarian Congress to office next month. The Chavez-friendly Congress -- the one voted from office --appears to have given him these powers as a way to short-circuit that possible opposition to Chavez' rule.

Venezuelan lawmakers granted President Hugo Chavez broad powers Friday to enact laws by decree, undermining the clout of a new congress that takes office next month with a bigger opposition bloc.


Decree, in any way, in a democracy is a bad thing. Decree, to avoid a confrontation with the elected representatives of the people, is even worse.

He taunted his opponents in a televised speech Friday night, saying now that he has decree powers they won't be able to block his laws. "You won't be able to make a single law, 'pitiyanquis,'" Chavez said, using one of his favorite insults, which refers to U.S. collaborators and translates as "little Yankees." "We're going to see how you make laws now."


No way to spin it. This is Chavez the dictator coming out. Action taken by allies to prevent the will of the people.

That is set to change when the new congress takes office with 67 of the 165 seats controlled by the opposition — enough to prevent Chavez from having the two-thirds majority needed to approve some types of major legislation and to confirm Supreme Court justices.

Anticipating that shift, pro-Chavez lawmakers earlier this month appointed nine new Supreme Court justices, reinforcing the dominance of judges widely seen as friendly to his government.


Chavez's popularity has declined in the past two years amid a recession and 27 percent inflation. In September legislative elections, the pro- and anti-Chavez camps emerged with a nearly even split of the popular vote.


Tell me again of this thing you call "Democracy"?
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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:09 pm

Ezra, talk about hyperbole. When did I defend Serbia? My only beef was that the bombing intensified the violence. It was a civil war, not a genocide. In civil wars people die.

Frank, I didn't accuse you of "defending" Serbia. I accused you of not recognizing them for what they were. Ethnic cleaning and concentration camps in Europe fifty years after WWII and we should sit back and do nothing? I supppose you're glad we didn't intervene in Rwanda?
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Dec 19, 2010 10:41 am

The Kosovo Liberation Army were just as violent and just as racist. . .

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:17 pm

When have I ever lost an argument? hehe.

Barber, I guess you missed the fact that the Assembly also passed laws making it easy for the people to govern themselves with communes and control over their resources that could actually decentralize the government some.

Venezuela is still highly controlled by conservative business interests and obviously the US is curtailing investments into the country, hurting the economy, which the people blame on Chavez. The media there is still highly anti-Chavez.

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Ezra, they searced for all the bodies and found few. There were crimes on both sides, as you would expect in a civil war. You want to defend the KLA, but slam Chavez, this shows your loopy view of the world, not mine.

The KLA are right up there with FARC.

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Speaking of FARC, it seems Chichita Bananas, stationed here in lovely, balmy Cincy, paid off FARC so that they could harvest bananas. They did it to protect their farmers. Aww, poor Chichita, AKA the United Fruit Company in the bad old days of the virgin empire.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Sun Dec 19, 2010 1:41 pm

Frank, that's a little like saying the Bush Administration was borderline fascist -- but it's okay because the local governments are still democratic.

Nonsense, of course. Rule by decree, given to a dictator by his allies to deliberately short-circuit the opposition.

No way to spin it otherwise. Chavez has been given dictatorial powers.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:12 pm

When have I ever lost an argument? hehe.

When have you ever made an argument? Hawhaw.

I'm "defending" the KLA? Huh? You brought up the KLA. Presumably to find some moral equivalance and a justification to sit back while thousands died unnecessarily. We should also have intervened in Rwanda. We should take over Haiti now. A much better use of our military might than whatever the hell we're doing in Afghanistan.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:44 pm

Take over Haiti? We have been trying to take over Haiti for about two hundred years. Rwanda? What about the Congo? North Korea, Burma? Come on Ezra, this stuff aint as easy as you think. Using military force could make it worse and usually does, especially if it's anglo faces. Maybe you could have a UN peace force, but that may backfire as well. This is why Iraq was such a horror. Using force sounds good on paper, but in reality it could create more violence, worse, it could create more hazards elsewhere. When we spend all our treasure on one horrorshow another may sprout up.

There are no easy answers. Thinking things out is not an American ideal.


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