Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:54 pm

I'll be the first to admit that my snark-o-meter really needs to be adjusted at times.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:03 pm

Shades of grey? I never could understand what that meant. Maybe I'm missing something. Is there grey areas when it comes to slavery? Rape?? Torture? Illegal aggression?

MLK never had grey areas, Noam Chomsky doesn't, Jesus didn't. Either something is wrong or it is right. There are valid debates, but since some views are marginalized there is no way to know what areas exist. If the general public doesn't know this stuff how can we let them have any answers about how they think about anything?

I do notice Roc is a radical and Lori doesn't cap on him. Lori? Why does this have to be about a knife fight and not a degree of opinions?

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:15 pm

Maybe you didn't ask me about issues where I do see grey, like guns. I'm not anti-gun or pro-gun.

On abortion I think feminists avoid debating the morality of it.

There are facts--not grey facts--fact, facts.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jan 25, 2011 2:34 pm

Frank

Even in what we think of as black and white, there are shades of grey.

Take rape for expample. While you and both would agree that the act itself is totally black, we may not necessarily agree with the way a rapist should be deal with. A shade of grey.

The same thing goes for all those other things you mentioned.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:13 pm

There is more important matters than our bickering. The riots in Egypt are a great sign. Usually riots are bad but riots against actual dictatorships are a wonderful thing, especially in the middle east. This could signal a democratic wave all through the middle east, which everybody should agree on. I do notice that the right has been very quiet about this. It's almost like they want these countries to stay unfree. It fits their demonization.

A brick in the face of Mubarak.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Jan 25, 2011 3:40 pm

FrankChurch wrote:There is more important matters than our bickering.


Quite probably, but why stop a discussion just when it gets interesting?

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 25, 2011 6:38 pm

Steve Evil, first your view about grey areas?

You're cute as a cupcake, ya know that?

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:46 pm

Barber wrote:Lori -
I didn't see Mike's post as a shot at Frank, but rather as a follow-on series of questions to Ezra's "Left? Right? Truth lies in, shall we say, another direction. The secret is not what you think. It's how you think."

I interpret the above as an Empirical "you", not "You, Frank" -- therefore Mike's would read the same way.

Mike, am I wrong?
no
follow your bliss,mike

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:42 am

FrankChurch wrote: You're cute as a cupcake, ya know that?


Yup. Earned me many fans.

When it comes to grey, I know that no sketch artist should be without it, and I know that most cities (especially Toronto) look that colour in winter, and it's often my prefered description of boring music. Morally, speaking, every case needs to be examined on its own merrits.

Any issue closely examined will reveal endless complications. If everything were black and white, no one would ever disagree on anything. The reason there is passionate debate around any issue is that there are always arguments for either side. And the more arguments there are the more passionate the debate becomes. The only rational thing for any rational person to do is consider all the arguments and decide which are more compelling.

Your examples of rape, slavery and torture are disingenuous, in that no one is referring to those issues when they speak of shades of grey. Your example of abortion is better, because it is one of those complicated issues that so many people refuse to budge on. I will leave unsaid the other major example that comes to mind.

As for facts, what are facts? Present me one set of facts and I'll present you with another. Facts can be used, twisted and cherry picked to support any position you wish. Again, the only rational thing for any rational person to do is honestly asess the facts and the context of the facts and adjust his opinions to the facts, and further adjust it when further facts are made known.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed Jan 26, 2011 2:20 pm

Again, the only rational thing for any rational person to do is honestly asess the facts and the context of the facts and adjust his opinions to the facts, and further adjust it when further facts are made known.

Hey buddy this is Americans you're talking to! We always get it right the first time so we never need to change our minds. All our mothers are virgins and we're the best batch yet.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:25 pm

And you have to know why the facts are important to know, even if those facts may lead you to scary results. This is why most people avoid the radical realities. Nobody invites the pool-pisser to be prom king.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:03 pm

I think a better analogy would be the one who identifies the piss in the pool rather than the one who actually pisses in it. . .

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:33 pm

Just aim the right way.

-------------

This is a direct quote from Dennis Miller: "Obama should get his head out of the clouds, the people don't believe in global warming."

The people are idiots, but you're the biggest one Miller, you unfunny prick.

Miller also wants to Obama to embrace big business, put on the Monopoly man monocle and play the game. Does this fuck read polls?

I'm glad that idjit is on the right.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:30 am

Because of cutbacks in foreign reporting in the last few years much of the western news media finds itself on the outside looking in as the events in Egypt and the rest of the Middle East unfold. Even the BBC is soliciting information from travelers and tourists in the region.

Thank god for Al Jazeera which has really come into its own. Even though the Egyptian govt has shut down Al-J's Cairo bureau (is there any higher praise?) they still seem to be the best source for current news from the area.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middl ... 59936.html
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:31 pm

I take it Al Jazeera is still only available in D.C.?

-----------

It's all about how it affects us in this Egypt business. Egypt is our ally? No fucking way, the people of Egypt are our allies.

Mubarak should be strung up and shot. I'm usually non-violent, but not when overthrowing a dictatorship.

Now Hillary wants democracy. Where was she six months ago? Bullshit!

This is why I get so agitated about the Chavez situation. We have no right to question the democratic intent of Venezuelans when we support Egypt who do not have free elections. We should shut up and let the dissidents work.


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