Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

Moderator: Moderator

cynic
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 3:55 am
Location: chicago

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:41 pm

and i just watched Soylent Green last week. :lol:

Maybe Dark City tonight,
or Logans Run?

no, there is no intended signifigance.

just one monkey and one keyboard.

no offense intended.
follow your bliss,mike

User avatar
Steve Evil
Posts: 3519
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Some Cave in Kanata
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:51 am

cynic wrote:did anything i offer suggest that?



You did not, and I regret if that was implied. As for the socialist project, I was rather making a general statement about some commonly held assumptions. Not so much here, but elsewhere, in people I talk to and commentators I've read.

diane bartels
Posts: 1255
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: CHICAGO IL

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby diane bartels » Mon Mar 28, 2011 1:19 pm

Frank, did you actually read/watch the clips u asked me to bathe in? Prof. Chomsky explaining that the term socialism has been stripped of any meaning in the 20th cen, first by its corruption by the tyrannies of the USSR and China, then the negative connotation drafted onto it by the West? What I think Steve is referencing as socialism is kinda what FDR instituted or began in the 30s, what the European countries and our northern neighbor have done for decades. That is for me a kind of enlightened capitalism.. It works, but it could also work at something less than the 50% tax bracket on the wealthy. Loopholes should be eliminated, and a flat tax rate for every one.
And as for your Adam Smith quote, what he meant or really said is markets needed to be entirely free, as I remember the position. Not people, which notion in the way you are promoting it would have shocked his bloomers off. As for the libertarian socialism your wikipedia article promotes, those are lovely ideas, about as far as from how this world works as one can get. Did you read the comments at the end of the Michael Moore clip? People want private prop and will defend it with their lives. How do you propose to change that short of armed revolution where you and Prof. Chomsky and Mr. Moore impose your ideals and will on the rest of us. And dont give me the line about if people just read and understand how wonderful the communal utopia is we would flock to it. I got it, I got it back in school when I read Adam Smith and Karl Marx and all kinds of things like that. And came out with my liking for private prop firmly intact. There is more I could say much more, but i gotta run. I really hope you answer me and Mike and Steve B and engage in the debate in actuality.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:00 pm

Right, socialist reforms, because the externalities of capitalism are so bad. Instead of reforms why not just let the whole of society be democratic? Do away with civil authority. We are free people, we do not need masters to govern are lives.

Cut the strings, run naked, feel the warm rain and cool breeze. mmm

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:16 pm

Oh, God, not another one. Joe Bageant, a progressive writer of very high esteem died at the young age of 64. A real loss, because this guy wrote really well about what was going on in rural America and especially his hometown of Winchester Va, a place about as right wing as you get.

He was one of the few lefties who really could explain why people in those parts of America thought in the ways they do. He had sympathy as well as scorn for them, but was one of them--one of the few lefties who they trust.

A shameful loss and in bitter anger I remember that when his book came out he couldn't get on tv or radio, even though the book sold well. Now he will never have his say. His work will always speak to us who chose to remember. A great tragedy. RIP Joe.

User avatar
Steve Evil
Posts: 3519
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Some Cave in Kanata
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:18 pm

diane bartels wrote: What I think Steve is referencing as socialism is kinda what FDR instituted or began in the 30s, what the European countries and our northern neighbor have done for decades. That is for me a kind of enlightened capitalism...


Possibly a question of semantics, but what I see in the examples I cited are instances of increased (rather than decreased, which are always told is such a wonderful idea) social control over the creation of wealth. So I rather prefer the socialist tag, though possibly tags of any kind are irrelevant now.

User avatar
Ezra Lb.
Posts: 4547
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:02 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:44 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Right, socialist reforms, because the externalities of capitalism are so bad. Instead of reforms why not just let the whole of society be democratic? Do away with civil authority. We are free people, we do not need masters to govern are lives.

Cut the strings, run naked, feel the warm rain and cool breeze. mmm



You're right Frank, a society with no civil authority would be truly democratic. The rule of the mob.

It was the merchant class who originally formed a power base strong enough to fight off the priests and kings. Nothing wrong with capitalism that a host of regulations wouldn't cure. Good laws make good police. Bad laws make bad police.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Mar 28, 2011 3:52 pm

Interesting how he calls the people the mob. Hmm, Scott Walker would agree.

Domestic enemy, mob, we want our country back.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:10 pm

This is the story of the day, hehe:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/2 ... 41374.html

Yes, anarchists may actually bring down the Royal family! haha. Violence is not a good tactic, but when you try to kill people's livelyhoods but support a bunch of rich assholes this is what they get.

The monarchy has to go. Give their ill money away.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Mar 28, 2011 4:11 pm

The Kill Team story in Rolling Stone is depressing, sad.

A soldier was convicted of killing a 15 year old boy. Thanks to the media for covering that. Grr.

Yea, our boys are peaches.

User avatar
Steve Evil
Posts: 3519
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Some Cave in Kanata
Contact:

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:35 am

I've seen enough crowds at work to distrust the mob mentality with a passion. The witch hunts, the lynchings. . . rule of law is what prevents random violence. I'm not convinced it's a bad thing.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:19 pm

Then ban voting.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:48 pm

Malalai Joya is in America. Who is Malalai Joya you say? She is merely the leading human rights activist from Afghanistan, hunted by the Taliban and the friends of Karzai, because she sticks up for womens' rights in her country. That would obviously make her a favorite with our loving government, right? Not so fast, the Obama administration, at first, denied her entry into our country. Remember, the Taliban, our enemy, wants her killed--probably raped first, then killed and we tried to deny her entry here? We relented, but damn us.

So much for the fallacy that we are there for womens' rights.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:08 pm

Speaking of Disney:

http://www.alternet.org/books/150410/ho ... _our_kids/

There's also the fact that Disney clothes are made with sweatshop labor. Childhood fed to gullible tots by the Disney silver spoon, while the diaper is filled with victims.

cynic
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 3:55 am
Location: chicago

Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:11 pm

FrankChurch wrote: So much for the fallacy that we are there for womens' rights.
fantasic point frank;
:lol:
yeah; that's what THEY have been saying from the very start. :lol:
it has ALWAYS been about womens' rights. :lol:
nothing more...nothing less. :lol:
follow your bliss,mike


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests