Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat Apr 16, 2011 7:38 pm

It's not the evil corporate conspiracy that leftists always imagine.

It's a combination of a culture that doesn't much value education and the fact that parents think that having kids automatically makes them experts on every subject. Teachers are caught between ignorant parents and cowardly school boards. The stupid "no child left behind" is just a politician's idea of assembly line education. The corporatism is a symptom not the real disease.

Children who pick their own books may be better readers but first they have to be taught how to choose. Otherwise Diane is right. Boogers it is.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Apr 17, 2011 10:44 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:It's not the evil corporate conspiracy that leftists always imagine.



No, but corporate interference doesn't help.


If I recall Frank, you weren't talking about kids choosing their own books. You were suggesting Jello Biafra shouldn't be forced to read anything he didn't want to. Very different suggestion.

Keeping in mind, that "education" is a lifelong process, and there are different stages and phrases in which different strategies are most appropriate.

Of course children learn most when they're engaged in the material: that's taken for granted in educational circles and preached as Gospell in the Teacher's Colleges.

That DOES NOT MEAN leaving them to their own devices. In order to grow, children need to be exposed to more challenging material as they advance. That occasionally means reading books they might not necessarily have chosen for themselves. Human beings grow intellecually by being exposed to a variety of materials and challenging ideas. The purpose of "the book" is not enjoy it but to understand what's going on within it, to see language in action, to see the different ways thought can be communicated. It is also to get one's own thoughts in order; often understanding why one didn't enjoy something is more useful than why one did.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:37 am

How is telling kids what to read teaching them freedom? Cultural choice is very important. Sure, you have to have a culturally better society, which can be blamed on the corporate structure that Ezra loves so much.

And what about Alfie Kohn's studies? At least check out the studies before bleating.

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Ezra, I never used the term 'conspiracy,' you did.

There is a global oligarch that conspires to control the world economy. It's not a conspiracy, it is right out in the open. Corporations can cross borders, unlike people. They can kill, while people go to prison. They have their own justice, skewed as it is.

Edward Bernays said that there was a 'secret government.' He was a major figure in public relations. This kind of talk is all over the public record. Rich people are becoming richer, poor poorer. This was planned.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Apr 17, 2011 3:13 pm

I am a fucking teacher, I am allowed to bleat; when you get your Bachelor of Education you can tell me how to teach. Honest to God Frank, after six years you've finally managed to piss me off. You clearly didn't read a damn thing I wrote.

There's more to freedom than doing your own thing. . .

diane bartels
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby diane bartels » Sun Apr 17, 2011 7:28 pm

Steve, I now kinda think Frank expends a lot of time and effort to merely get out goats. I wonder if he is really in the position to care for our goats though once he has them. Think about that you all, when you go to bed tonite. The sense will become evident. Or it wont. (And if any of you do think about it when you go to bed, you shouldn't be allowed to go to bed. Bad paraphrase of He Whose Name Should Not Be Spoken on this Website. Hint, Italian-American singer of latter 20th century.)

And spoken with a loving smile on her face, Went to Kohn's website. Noticed no citations to any studies. Did notice he misquoted Donald Murray in a misleading way. Kohn lost credits thereby in my book. And as to the tone of your posts to Steve n Ezra Really Francis? Really you believe all that stuff you say? Really truly honest Native Americans?(I have a smallll portion of Native American descent in my polyglot ethnic heritage - mother's father's mother, I believe Cherokee).

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:29 am

I respect you for being a teacher, this is why I like you so much. Just remember that our society is trying to destroy the autonomy of teachers, forcing them to teach kids to pass tests, not much else.

Excuse me for using the term 'bleat,' but the studies don't lie.

I'm sure england may respect teachers more there than here. Here they hate them. Note our elites' love affair with snakes like Michelle Rhee and her like.

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Diane, Alfie Kohn is one of the highest respected education experts in human history. Best that you email him and ask him yourself. He answers letters.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:31 am

Guys, remember the main media rule: when they avoid having on certain people those people tend to be truth tellers. This is why they are avoided. Lies sell better. They balm the rubes.

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The Fed is giving massive amount of tax money to rich people and they don't have to legally pay it back! Disgusting.

Source: Matt Taibbi.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:07 am

Steven Evil, Jello Biafra does Canada:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hyATLdxd9f0

Never heard of Tim Horton's donuts.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:47 am

Best political commentary of the week.

http://www.lydialeith.com/
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:16 am

FrankChurch wrote:I respect you for being a teacher, this is why I like you so much. Just remember that our society is trying to destroy the autonomy of teachers, forcing them to teach kids to pass tests, not much else.



Don't I know it: I confront it every day. I don't need reminding.

I have as a matter of fact read Alfie Kohn; he was in the syllabus, which I was forcedto read. If you had read me
, you would know I do not dismiss his ideas. I dismiss your oversimplification of them.


Tim Horton's coffee is highly overrated, but their donuts are unparalelled. Interesting how his interviewer (an insufferable douchebag brought in by the CBC to attract the hipster crowd) didn't address Jello's point there.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Apr 18, 2011 11:21 am

More Alfie Kohn on the folly of Merit Pay

http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/edweek/meritpay.htm

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:12 pm

Evil Steve, at least give him credit for interviewing the occasional radical: Chomsky, Biafra, Vidal, Zinn.

I have never had a Canadian donut, so I will take your word for it.

I heard Canadian crullers melt in your mouth.

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Sorry, if I gave that impression with Alfie Kohn. Actually, it's parents who need the Alfie Kohn treatment, not teachers. They're already hip to him. And our hapless President, it seems, taking on the worst aspects of No Child Left Behind.

Yea, merit pay, competition, standards, discipline, all bullshit. Who knew?

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:23 pm

Frank

Somewhere in this thread you and Ezra had a small discussion about Scientolotgy. If I remember correctly you were defending it as a religion.

Do me a favor. http://tinyurl.com/3jcuu3h this is a youtube link to the BBC show Panorama. Watch the four segments on Siencetology and then come back and tel me it's a religion.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:38 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Evil Steve, at least give him credit for interviewing the occasional radical: Chomsky, Biafra, Vidal, Zinn.


Indeed, though I suspect they are chosen by the CBC assignment dask rather than him personally. His guests are frequently interesting but his questions rarely are.

FrankChurch wrote:Yea, merit pay, competition, standards, discipline, all bullshit. Who knew?


Are you being facetious? He said nothing about standards or discipline.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Apr 19, 2011 9:20 am

So, you are a selective Alfie Kohn reader. Found you out.

He writes about this stuff all the time. Daddy still loves you.


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