Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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RocRizzo
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby RocRizzo » Sun May 08, 2011 10:18 am

FrankChurch wrote:You knew this was coming. Chomsky's take on Osama Bin Dead:

http://www.zcommunications.org/my-react ... am-chomsky

I didn't crib from his notes. Not my fault that we are on the same wavelength.


Geeze, the end of that entry, about how it would be the same thing if Iraqi troops landed here and assassinated Bush, are something I have been telling people, since this thing broke. I just read this, and am mildly astonished that my take on this action is the same as none other than one of the brightest minds of our time. Simply amazing.

And thanks for the link Frank.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby diane bartels » Sun May 08, 2011 11:01 am

Sorry Roc Frank and Noam, it would be vastly diff. As Steve B already pointed out, bin Laden was not the head of his country or any country, He is a known and wanted international criminal, who kills people and openly advocates killing more. To pretend otherwise is stupid and gives liberalism a bad name. Besides in times of war, the killing of the enemy leader is often planned and sometimes executed, often by real anarchists, Frank. Self defense pertains to nations as well as people. The man was plotting more ways to kill us. How would you feel if it was your friend or family who was murdered next in one of his terrorists plots. I think the jokes re his death are horrific, and the joy over the top. But I am not sorry his is dead and I do not and will not feel sorry for him. He reaped what he sowed. Which has nothing to do with the Shrubs. Yes they should be in jail, as should Cheney. But I doubt that will happen soon.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun May 08, 2011 12:33 pm

I don't care what international law says, leaders are people just like Osama, all people deserve the same rights--there should be no special rights. But, to help Barber's bit of hyperbole, let's say that another country kills American civilians as a show of justice for them? Remember, we do it too.

Bush is no longer President, so the law doesn't count. Kissinger is not a leader either.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun May 08, 2011 12:34 pm

Tavis Smiley agrees with me. Nice. See, black people know about how the empire works.

Welcome back Roc.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby diane bartels » Sun May 08, 2011 1:20 pm

Frank the truth is you dont care what anyone but you thin and Noam when and if he agrees with you. You last point was not wellmade or well written. Osama was a murderer. He needed to be killed to save the lives of others.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun May 08, 2011 1:28 pm

Tony Kushner denied honorary degree for siding with Palestinians:

http://www.alternet.org/world/150859/pu ... palestine/

This black listing by the Israel lobby must end! I thought these folks liked liberal democracy? Part of that theory is that free speech might be a good thing.

The shoddy way Finkelstein was treated is another. Fired by two colleges, banned by Israel. Shameful. Our side just doesn't get the same rights.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sun May 08, 2011 1:30 pm

George Bush is a murderer, Kissinger is a murderer.

--------------

Orlando Bosch recently died in Florida. Who is Orlando Bosch you say? Only a gentlemen who bombed a Cuban airliner, killing several people. He was shielded by America because he killed commies. Got a nice cushy life and got to die here. Our hypocracy is so cute.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Sun May 08, 2011 4:14 pm

I support copyright protections


If Prince wanted to never release a bootleg, I could offer it as a download or stream, as long as I didn't sell it.


So copyright is great unless it gets in the way of something you want. Then you feel an entitlement. That's how I read this.

We're just going to have to agree to disagree, Frank.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon May 09, 2011 3:20 pm

I defend radical free speech and access to ideas more than I support somebody getting to control property. Priorities, I guess.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon May 09, 2011 3:22 pm

Mike, I can internally agree that property is theft but at the same time understand that right now creative control should be protected, within limits.

I believe that stealing is wrong, but if someone steals bread to feed their family, I look the other way.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Mon May 09, 2011 4:05 pm

FrankChurch wrote: I believe that stealing is wrong, but if someone steals bread to feed their family, I look the other way.

nothing wrong with charity
nothing wrong with requesting charity
nothing wrong with depending on charity
if you steal, even to give it away, you are a parasite.
FrankChurch wrote: Mike, I can internally agree that property is theft but at the same time understand that right now creative control should be protected, within limits.

you will continue to rationalize your right to be a parasite with whatever twisted moral construct you can beg , borrow ... or steal.

good for you lil buddy. :)
follow your bliss,mike

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FinderDoug
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Mon May 09, 2011 5:51 pm

I defend radical free speech and access to ideas more than I support somebody getting to control property. Priorities, I guess.


Last word for me, because I like horse pudding as little as the next guy.

If I understand you, Frank, based on what you've said:

You are arguing that it's a matter of free speech and access to ideas for you to be able to stream for your own purposes an album that Prince records and AS THE ARTIST WHO CREATED IT chooses not to release but which you, completely uninvolved in the process, feel has merit.

This is NO DIFFERENT than if Harlan writes a piece that he feels for whatever reason he should not publish; but you - Frank Church - believe you are entitled (if you should come across it somehow and think it is utter brain dynamite that EVERYONE should read) to disseminate it, without regard for the wishes of the man who created it.

If you presume it is more important or vital than its creator does, then you believe you should have the right to make it communal property and do with it as you wish. Is this a fair assessment of the ideology you're tossing about?

(I know I'm not going to get a yes/no, kids - I'm going to get three new qualifiers, or a little backpedal, or a minor caveat. I already knew this going in. I really just needed to flex my fingers after an afternoon of fence painting and before I start dinner prep - sausage and peppers, if you're in the neighborhood.)

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Mon May 09, 2011 6:47 pm

Actually, I'm going to go a bit deeper into Frank's statement than you are, Doug.

Frank, from a fundamental standpoint how does the creation of an original work of art constitute theft? If it did not exist prior to my initiation, and would not have existed were it not for my solitary input, how, precisely, did I steal it from the consumer?

Until some miraculous day in thei unforseeable future when all of humanity is free from want and free to pursue nothing but hedonistic pleasures, you must deal with the real world as it exists today.

And in that real world property does exist, is protected by law, and the confiscation of the property by self-appointed distributors is what, in fact, is the theft.

I think you've got your values in a twist. You ought to be protecting the artist, not ruining their ability to create art and still manage to put food on the table.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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FinderDoug
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Tue May 10, 2011 6:24 am

Actually, I'm going to go a bit deeper into Frank's statement than you are, Doug.


Well, I was also making ice cream last night, and I have to pick my dessertations. :D

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 10, 2011 11:12 am

Barber, why didn't you do your pav rant here instead? I don't want Harlan on my ass..lol

I may have to hide out. I could go to Dougs house, but that food he was cooking may give me acid reflux.

Using Steve King was a low blow, since he doesn't write about the same charactor every book. He also tackles controversial issues, like child death and our inner evil selves.

Once you shill with Burger King you lose me. I do not hope for a world of purity, but a bit of ethics goes a mile.

Imagine if Chomsky decided to chuck it and produce reality shows for ABC? I'd kill him as well.


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