Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat May 14, 2011 8:44 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:cynic, sure the Bushies gave the hunt for Bin Laden lip service but after their complete incompetence at Tora Bora allowed Osama to escape they essentially abandoned the pursuit for him because of their obsession with Iraq.

"hunt for Bin Laden lip service "
so, they really didn't care enough about a head on a stick. for shame.

"incompetence at Tora Bora allowed Osama to escape"
so, although they really didn't care, they did not bring home the head on a stick. awful.

makes sense.

"they essentially abandoned the pursuit "
you mean the " Bin Laden lip service " ?
the one they really didn't care about?

this one?:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/04/washi ... intel.html

lies. all lies. :lol:

"their obsession with Iraq"
yep; can't swing a dead cat without hitting an obsession.

and it can take hours to to bury one if it's not dead yet.
reference the peapod ladies
follow your bliss,mike

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Sat May 14, 2011 8:53 am

cynic wrote:do you think it unlikely that the incineration of 6 out of 10 million, of any group would occur?
world war ?


Not particularily; is this what you glean from my statement? Then I should restate. It is not the genocide but the trial of the perpetrators that I find unlikely. The popular sentiment seems to prefer hunting down and killing wild west style, without the need for pesky legalities.

That's what I find disturbing. Not the death of Bin Laden.

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat May 14, 2011 9:43 am

Steve Evil wrote: It is not the genocide but the trial of the perpetrators that I find unlikely. The popular sentiment seems to prefer hunting down and killing wild west style, without the need for pesky legalities.

That's what I find disturbing. Not the death of Bin Laden.

"killing wild west style,without the need for pesky legalities." , "That's what I find disturbing"
exactly steve;
bravo, i agree entirely.
Steve Evil wrote:I do not regret that Bin Laden is dead. Good riddence. I do not think it a travesty that he was not taken to trial.

What I find very disturbing though is how many people find the very idea of a trial liberal appeasement by another name. Nuremburg would never have happened under the current climate.
" I do not think it a travesty that he was not taken to trial

somenow i sense, call it a vague intuition if you must, a (minor?) conflict here.

i will rephrase the question, regarding your comment; "I do not think it a travesty that he was not taken to trial."

if not a travesty, do you find it disturbing that he was not taken to trial?
follow your bliss,mike

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat May 14, 2011 11:01 am

how embarassing. :oops:
it's not the "peapod ladies" (see the end of my post to ez), it's the "pepper pots" ?
i am mortified.

and of this "cat burial", the discussion is between Mrs. Premise and Mrs. Conclusion .
beyond the unwell cat, explore the varied dispatch and/or disposal of disliked budgies, avoid said budgies infringeing the personal freedom others.
chat up Sartre.
if you dare
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crIJvcWk ... ure=fvwrel
or not.
follow your bliss,mike

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat May 14, 2011 12:24 pm

Cynic

You do realize the myriad of problems that most likely would have occurred world wide if we actually took ObL to trial right?

1. Where would we have heald it? The USofA wasn't the only place he committed his crimes after all.

2. How would you have provided for the massive amounts of security it would have taken for this trial to occur with a mininum of blood shed?

3. A trial would have been a perfect way for him to spout his retoric. How would you have prevented that.

Just a few of the many questions I am sure that you, I and all right thinking people have thought about. IMO none of those could have been done.

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat May 14, 2011 12:56 pm

hi lori;
Lori Koonce wrote: 1. Where would we have heald it? The USofA wasn't the only place he committed his crimes after all. .
don't know, the U.N. ?
Lori Koonce wrote: 2. How would you have provided for the massive amounts of security it would have taken for this trial to occur with a mininum of blood shed?.
don't march him down the street for a perp parade? like, you know, no oswald /ruby type problems.
Lori Koonce wrote: 3. A trial would have been a perfect way for him to spout his retoric. How would you have prevented that..
who else would you deny the right of due legal process... just to shut them the fuck up?

point them out lori; me and the boys will take them out back and beat the shit out of them.

the cops are always right, why waste time, money and effort on trials and the like.

hack off a hand, shoot 'em in the head or lock their ass up. nice and neat. :D
follow your bliss,mike

diane bartels
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby diane bartels » Sat May 14, 2011 1:28 pm

If an enemy of mine runs through my hood and informs everyone I know that he is bent on hurting and killing me first chance he gets, and I blve the threat is credible bc he kicked my ass in the past, I am going to be on the lookout to defend myself. If I here he is somewhere getting friends together and strapping on brass knuckles to come down the block and kick my ass, I feel justified in sneaking up behind him and whacking him with a baseball bat as hard as I can. bin Laden attacked us and spent the last ten years making and announcing plans to do it again. Self-defense. Brutal yes but the jungle is and he called jungle rules on us first.

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat May 14, 2011 1:42 pm

you would do well not to advertise such an action, you would be arrested, tried and likely sentenced.
follow your bliss,mike

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sat May 14, 2011 2:32 pm

None of the issues about trying Osama would have arisen if we had treated Al-Queda as international criminals instead of declaring war on everybody and if we had fully joined the International Criminal Court. The wonderful legacy of Bush continues.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat May 14, 2011 3:28 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:None of the issues about trying Osama would have arisen if we had treated Al-Queda as international criminals instead of declaring war on everybody and if we had fully joined the International Criminal Court. The wonderful legacy of Bush continues.
spare me.
if clinton or bush signed on this may not have happened?
somehow , somewhere, over the rainbow.

who the fuck knows?
that alternative history lobe of your brain must get quite a workout.

what happened to bush only offering "lip service"? dufus wouldn't even bring home a head on a stick.
so this too must laid at bush's feet, forget about clinton, or the fact that no president has ever been all powerful or worked in a vacuum.
i'm not defending bush here, and obama didn't actualy pull the trigger.

congress is not likely to pass on our status as Big Dog, until we are no longer Big Dog.
joining the International Criminal Court will be a big deal; and i doubt it will happen for a while.

but bush's head on a stick is a fine obsession.
good luck with that.
follow your bliss,mike

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat May 14, 2011 3:28 pm

Suicide bombers killed around eighty people because of the OBL attack. Obama knew this would happen. If he was captured legally these people may still be alive.

Sorry, folks, violence creates more violence. Remember Iraq.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Sat May 14, 2011 3:29 pm

Kudos to John McCain for saying torture didn't lead to Bin Ladin. I think he feels guilty.

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Sat May 14, 2011 3:47 pm

cynic wrote:
Steve Evil wrote:
somenow i sense, call it a vague intuition if you must, a (minor?) conflict here.


Well, I do feel very conflicted about. On the one hand, I cannot bring myself to regret that the man is dead, or fault the politicians for getting rid of him. On the other, I can't help feeling uneasy that we've let the revenge instinct get the better of us. That for many, the "or alive" part of the wanted poster was never a serious option.

What I find disturbing I suppose is not so much that there wasn't a trial as that there couldn't have been one. That is was never seriously considered, and that so many people find the very idea downright intolerable. That, and the inconsistency of my own emotional response.

Honestly? I know its terrible, but my first reaction was actually "Take that Republicans! Soft on terror my ass!" This I know is not healthy. But eight years of Bush II will do that to a man.

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Sat May 14, 2011 4:04 pm

"the inconsistency of my own emotional response"
"eight years of Bush II will do that to a man"

soooo, that's bush's fault as well?

wow, truly amazing the power bush has over peoples minds, to this day and far into the future.
almos' like jebus.
no, no, i mean satan! obama is like jebus!
wow i'm all emotional here, sorry. :oops:

i wonder if obama suffers from the "Take that Republicans! Soft on terror my ass!" as well.
(someone remind me was it the moron part or the sociopath part that gives bush this power?)

boy that guy was reeeely evil eh?
follow your bliss,mike

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Steve Evil
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Sat May 14, 2011 4:05 pm

[quote="Lori Koonce"]
Lori Koonce wrote:Cynic

1. Where would we have heald it? The USofA wasn't the only place he committed his crimes after all. [/quote="Lori Koonce"]

The Hauge. It was designed for this kind of thing.
[quote="Lori Koonce"]
Lori Koonce wrote:2. How would you have provided for the massive amounts of security it would have taken for this trial to occur with a mininum of blood shed?
[/quote="Lori Koonce"]

Providing security is not impossible. Every head of state has security, every famous person has security, every prisoner has security, ever prison is guarded to the point where breakouts are a rare, rare phenomina. They provided security for Saddam Hussein, for Herman Goering (sp?), for Adolph Eichman, for Slobodan Milosovic, for all those buggers at Camp X-Ray. They could provide it here if they wanted.
[quote="Lori Koonce"]
Lori Koonce wrote:3. A trial would have been a perfect way for him to spout his retoric. How would you have prevented that.[/quote="Lori Koonce"]

You don't. That's not the purpose of a trial.


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