Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Oct 23, 2012 6:32 pm

Seems Norman Finkelstein is becoming more mainstream:

http://www.zcommunications.org/the-pale ... inkelstein

They say here that Noam is sick. I hope he is ok.

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Ben W.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ben W. » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:13 pm

A banned commercial tapping into recession-era paranoia. What do you think? The simple truth, or inexcusable scaremongering? (Personally, I can't help but be reminded of the time when one of the major networks broadcast footage of Muslims celebrating in the streets less than a day after 9/11. I wonder if this commercial is meant to fire up a similar kind of dangerous, racial-based rage.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYKAbRK_wKA

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:09 pm

Everybody's talking now about how lame Nate Silver is. He was so right last time they now treat him like he is some lefty hack.

They want a story. Even Florida is tied today.

------------

There's some controversy surrounding the tomb of the unknown in DC. Seems the soldiers don't want to stop their duty, even though the storm is here. What should Obama do? They can't just let the soldiers get hurt. This is a hard one.

There's some on the left who think those soldiers are war mongering idiots. I'm not going to judge.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:07 pm

Look at this wikiquote piece on Thomas Friendman. Show just what a mad person this guy is:

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Thomas_L._Friedman

If he wasn't talking about arabs and Muslims we would call him a neo-nazi.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:32 pm

There's some controversy surrounding the tomb of the unknown in DC. Seems the soldiers don't want to stop their duty, even though the storm is here. What should Obama do? They can't just let the soldiers get hurt. This is a hard one.

There's some on the left who think those soldiers are war mongering idiots. I'm not going to judge.


Frank

What's so difficult about it? You DO NOT disobey your commanders, 'specially the Commander in Chief. And if you do, you suffer the outcome, which is usually a court martial.

So, if the POTUS has told them to leave, like it or not, that's what they do.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:23 pm

Lori is correct. If a superior ordered them out, they would leave.

But it would be seen as a very embarrassing retreat, and an order that no commander would give unless death were a certainty otherwise.

The people who guard the tomb -- and I've stood nearby as they changed guard -- are the best, proudest soldiers we have got, and they regard their watch over fallen comrades as a sacred duty. No one would challenge them. What they endure, they endure deliberately and proudly.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:40 pm

There's only dishonour if there's still a possibility of victory. They can't turn back the hurricane.

The unkown soldier is lost to us. His guards are still with us. There's no question in my mind who should take precedence.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Mon Oct 29, 2012 10:19 pm

I can't agree. It isn't about victory. There is no victory when you're honoring the dead. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is a special place, symbolic.

The soldiers who stand on watch aren't doing so because of a real sense that someone can get to the tomb and create mayhem. They stand watch in a symbolism of their refusal to leave a fallen soldier on the field of battle. It's a concept very difficult to explain if you've never served -- I have an inkling solely because of my father and brother-in-law. We -- you and I -- don't have a corresponding sense of duty or responsibility, so we really can't understand when someone is willing to sacrifice in service of that duty. For us, it's all about comfort and safety.

Soldiers -- and by extension police and firefighters -- are the ones who sacrifice their comfort and safety so that you and I can feel it ourselves. And so, feeling that cocoon around ourselves, it's all too easy to suggest that they're not following our own code of conduct.

Walking away from the Tomb is anathema to anyone assigned to carry out that duty.

(And if anyone reading this response reacts by shrugging and rolling your eyes, you demonstrate my point exactly. We can't fathom their sense of duty.)
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Oct 30, 2012 12:37 pm

Barber, I think they're seeing duty as two sides of several coins. What the soldiers are doing there is ok, but ugly nationalism can bring out an equally ugly form of misplaced duty.

Think Nazis, think Stalinism, think Reaganism.

"I have a duty to stop Obama the communist!" That kind of thang.

Leaking the Pentagon Papers was seen as a different kind of duty, by Ellsberg. Wikileaks another.

We all see what we see.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:41 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Barber, I think they're seeing duty as two sides of several coins.


Interesting phraseology, but I get what you mean. And yes, this is a different sense and definition of "duty" than is following orders or doing chores. It has to do with loyalty between peers and the obligation of each of them to have each others' backs. In this case, the soldiers marching watch at the Tomb do so not because they're ordered to do so, but because it's symbolic of the loyalty to those who have died in the field. It's the debt that they feel towards their fallen peers. They eagerly seek out the duty, and it's considered a great honor to stand guard.

The people who walk at the Tomb, or at the Arizona, or other historic and highly symbolic sites, are there because they have somehow earned the honor -- not because they were ordered to walk in the rain.

But it is fundamentally different than the self-assigned "duty" you claim for wikileaks or civil activists. You and I have a duty to speak out against tyranny...but that's vastly different than a soldiers' duty to a dead comrade. You and I cannot fully comprehend it, though we can respect it from the sidelines.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:47 am

When Washington has a memorial of Protesters we will know we have a real democracy.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Wed Oct 31, 2012 2:09 pm

FrankChurch wrote:When Washington has a memorial of Protesters we will know we have a real democracy.


http://www.nps.gov/mlkm/index.htm
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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Oct 31, 2012 4:26 pm

The cult of one man doesn't count.

How about this: The Anti-War Protester museum.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:01 pm

FrankChurch wrote:The cult of one man doesn't count.

How about this: The Anti-War Protester museum.


Please feel free to cough up some coin. If enough funds are raised I'm sure we can accommodate.

The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is a burial ground in a cemetery, honoring dead servicemen and women. Big difference.

I think you may need to consider the differences between, and intent of, a grave, a memorial, and a museum.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Nov 01, 2012 1:06 pm

I was right about Disney, eh? The mouse must be stopped. Amend copyright laws now!!


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