SCIENCE VS RELIGION

[FrankChurch]

No longer...

[Ezra Lb.]

I think we can all stipulate for the record, now and forevermore, that no representatives of any body of thought are free of or have an exclusive patent on assholery. I have known believers who are some of the nicest folks you'd ever want to break bread with and I've known some atheists who were the biggest scumbags on the planet. And vice versa. But this is simply irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not a god exists. A complete distraction.

The essential question remains, What compelling reason do you have to believe that a god exists?

It is a testimony to the privilege that religion enjoys in our society that to many of the faithful simply asking this question often produces scandal and censure. Religion is kept in the walled off part. That which must not be critiqued or even examined. But the genie is out of Pandora's Box. The question has been asked. It will continue to be asked. And to be intellectually (and spiritually!) honest I think the believer has an obligation to respond. And not hide behind offense and hurt feelings. (I might also add that chrisitians are commanded by their Master to respond. See 1 Peter 3:15). You have no obligation to me personally of course. And I have no interest in converting you. I'm simply...curious.

What I'm doing understood properly is providing you with the biggest compliment you'll ever receive. I take your beliefs seriously enough to question them.

-----

Ah the courage of saying what needs to be said even to folks who don't want to hear. This is for you Frank.

In a recent TV interview, former Iraqi MP Ayad Jamal Al-Din called for the establishment of a civil state in Iraq based on man-made law and equality, rather than on Islamic jurisprudence, as the only way to combat ISIS. He further said that there were thousands of mosques in the U.S. and worldwide that incited and prepared people to join ISIS. "Islam has been politicized and is used as a sword," he said in the Al-Iraqiya TV interview, which aired on October 17.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8coZIHX ... e=youtu.be

I don't know if he's right when he says mosques in the US and Europe are full of this ISIS ideology. Disturbing if true. One thing I do know. Until there is separation of mosque and state there will be no peace.

Ayad Jamal Al-Din has already survived one assassination attempt.

[FrankChurch]

When thirty percent of Muslims kill and murder call me.

[Rick Keeney]

Why not just give us an email address, Frank?

[FrankChurch]

Talk about thread drift.

[Moderator]

Talk about thread drift.

And what dies the percentage of Muslims committing violence have to do with Science versus Religion?

Frank, this is the fourth thread drift/derailment post I've had to make tonight, and you're squarely at the center of each and every one. You can't make a sound argument, so you toss off grenades or try to make an irrelevant point as if it's pertinent. Four in a night is a record, and not a good or sustainable one.

I'm done. Don't test me.

Back on topic, everyone.

[Ben W.]

What compelling reason do you have to believe that a god exists?

Basset hounds.

[FrankChurch]

Islam is a religion?

[FrankChurch]

I believe God exists. That's it.

[Mark Tiedemann]

What compelling reason do you have to believe that a god exists?

Basset hounds.

Which came about through human intervention. So...?

[Ezra Lb.]

The Roman Catholic Church just completed a Synod of Bishops at the Vatican focused on on issues of family. Once again we are presented with a familiar template. Pope Francis makes what seem to be conciliatory remarks, in this case about the relationship between gays and the church, and is hailed as bringing about great changes, only to have them rolled back in response to conservative objections.

Poor Pope Francis! He means well but those obstructionist conservatives are holding him back and impeding progress.

Well horseshit.

If you actually looked at the fine print of the original statement, hailed as revolutionary, you would see that apart from the "make nice" language, it was simply more of the same ole. Gays are welcomed as long as they remember that god doesn't approve of their lifestyle and they can only be second class citizens in the church. Even that was too much for the conservatives.

What is truly disheartening is that our media has almost completely swallowed the kool-aid on the idea of Francis as a force of change. Never mind that usually about a week after he makes such statements a Vatican lackey scuttles out and quietly announces that church doctrine will not actually be modified in any way. And the enthusiam with which people fall all over themselves to congratulate the church on its new attitude is rather sickening.

To secularists the idea of recognizing the full civil rights of gays seems to be pretty much a no brainer. Of course we aren't encumbered by hundreds of years of credulity and religious superstition. I will congratulate Francis on one thing. He has the right PR people on the job. What most folks will take from this episode is the eactly the image he is trying to portray.

Change the bigoted doctrine. A smile doesn't make a lie into a truth.

[FrankChurch]

Sure, the President can say he wants to raise taxes but the congress has to pass them. The church has a hierarchy. It has been built in for centuries. Francis alone cannot change it. He is doing the best he can and is somewhat sincere so far.

[Ben W.]

Which came about through human intervention. So...?

...so obviously my attempt to introduce a little more levity to an intense thread was for naught.

It's interesting how atheists make wisecracks about believers until the cows come home, but when a person of faith occasionally returns the favour, they become amazingly glum.

[Steve Evil]

, What compelling reason do you have to believe that a god exists?

Beer. Funny, I never touched the stuff 'till I got to England. . .

[Ezra Lb.]

Humor, it is a difficult concept.

What is interesting, Ben, is how you seem to generalize from a particular example. One post and now all atheists are humorless and glum. I can only assume your animus towards my kind is the result of one unbeliever you once encountered with bad manners. But why do you keep avoiding the real issue?

What compelling reason do you have to believe that a god exists?

Surely "a person of faith" must have some motivating principle?




Beer. Funny, I never touched the stuff 'till I got to England. . .

Oh, no. The Almighty doesn't get credit for that one. The Lawd might have made the barley but it took a human to make the beer.