SCIENCE VS RELIGION

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:36 am

FrankChurch wrote:Jesus is interesting, since he says loving money is rotten and loving one another is a greater thing. What shill for dupes does that?


Dude, Jesus didn't say that at all. Paul said that in Timothy. The sixth chapter tenth verse.,

If you are gonna shill for the church, be sure to get what little facts are available correct.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:43 am

Jesus did not say dude. :)

Jesus did imply similar, I'm sure. I could be wrong.

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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:46 am

FrankChurch wrote:Jesus did not say dude. :)

Jesus did imply similar, I'm sure. I could be wrong.


Jesus never said what you claimed he did. A simple two second Google search proves you wrong.

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FrankChurch
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:50 am


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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri Jul 18, 2014 9:55 am

FrankChurch wrote:He did say this:

http://biblia.com/bible/esv/Matthew%206.24



"Jesus is interesting, since he says loving money is rotten..."

That is what you attributed to Jesus Frank. And that if a whole FUCK tonne of different from what you posted above.

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Robert Nason
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Robert Nason » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:04 pm

Basically Jesus didn't want competition from anyone or anything: not from money, sex, worldly pleasures, other religions, or even familial ties. It all had to be about him, him, him. What a monumental narcissist!
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby robochrist » Sat Jul 19, 2014 6:09 pm

Basically Jesus didn't want competition from anyone or anything: not from money, sex, worldly pleasures, other religions, or even familial ties. It all had to be about him, him, him. What a monumental narcissist!


Only by 1 interpretation.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:36 am

robochrist wrote:
Basically Jesus didn't want competition from anyone or anything: not from money, sex, worldly pleasures, other religions, or even familial ties. It all had to be about him, him, him. What a monumental narcissist!


Only by 1 interpretation.


More like four. Each of the gospels has at least one account of Jesus telling multiple people to get rid of earthly goods, give up family and follow him. Where the hell do you have think the disciples came from if nothing else.

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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby robochrist » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:57 am

Since there were no accounts written at the time of the actual events, and the first "interpretation" about them was written some 75 years later, we don't KNOW what really went on. Thus, Jesus as a SYMBOL might be Narcissistic to some and altruistic to others. That's what's important about symbols. It's all I'm getting at.

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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Lori Koonce » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:11 am

Well,if that is the way you see it, you get nothing but respect from me. But, the majority expect me to take the bible literally and In have a huge problem with that.

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robochrist
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby robochrist » Sun Jul 20, 2014 1:17 pm

Lori,

If the Bible were commonly discussed in symbolic terms, I'd be among the participants.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:04 pm

If Jesus is just a symbol then what is he a symbol of exactly?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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robochrist
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby robochrist » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:32 pm

Another way of asking it, if Jesus isn't a symbol WHAT is he?

I mean, what's the symbol of Dionysus? Or Ares? What was the symbolism of the Frankenstein monster? What's the symbolism of a vampire?

Since we're talking about the equivalent of folklore and literature, it's all interpretive. That's the point. How did we fail to express it below?

What does Jesus symbolize? That's up to YOU decide.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Ezra Lb. » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:55 pm

...if Jesus isn't a symbol WHAT is he?

Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question, the Jesus that actually lived appears to have been a Jewish apocalyptic preacher who taught that the world was about to come to an end and that everyone should drop out of society and form a community to get ready for the end. I don't think it's too cynical to point out that people who do this today aren't met with a worshipful attitude generally. He also taught pacifism (why fight when god is on your side?) and the virtues of being poor and downtrodden (probably because all his followers were poor and downtrodden).

After his brutal death his life and teachings were mythologized and he became in absentia the founder of a new religion that spread enough to undermine the Roman Empire and create a Dark Age that lasted damn near a thousand years. Only after centuries of bloody struggle have we managed to pry the fingers of his followers off the throat of western civilization. A struggle that continues today. Admittedly members of the church rarely look at it from this perspective.

I don't think Jesus symbolized anything. He and his beliefs were products of a time and a place and we should take whatever good we can find from them and ditch the rest. You don't need a lot of hoodoo to feel compassion and love for others. But now I begin to preach, sorry.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Robert Nason
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Re: SCIENCE VS RELIGION

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jul 20, 2014 9:22 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:...if Jesus isn't a symbol WHAT is he?

Assuming this isn't a rhetorical question, the Jesus that actually lived appears to have been a Jewish apocalyptic preacher who taught that the world was about to come to an end and that everyone should drop out of society and form a community to get ready for the end. I don't think it's too cynical to point out that people who do this today aren't met with a worshipful attitude generally. He also taught pacifism (why fight when god is on your side?) and the virtues of being poor and downtrodden (probably because all his followers were poor and downtrodden).

After his brutal death his life and teachings were mythologized and he became in absentia the founder of a new religion that spread enough to undermine the Roman Empire and create a Dark Age that lasted damn near a thousand years. Only after centuries of bloody struggle have we managed to pry the fingers of his followers off the throat of western civilization. A struggle that continues today. Admittedly members of the church rarely look at it from this perspective.

I don't think Jesus symbolized anything. He and his beliefs were products of a time and a place and we should take whatever good we can find from them and ditch the rest. You don't need a lot of hoodoo to feel compassion and love for others. But now I begin to preach, sorry.

An excellent summation. I agree wholeheartedly with Ezra's analysis. But even the symbolism of what Jesus has come to represent turns me off. I don't want to be one of his "children," or to have my "sins" washed away by his divine whatever. I prefer to be a free, rational man. (Any minute now and I'll be quoting from the opening of THE PRISONER.)
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion


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