THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:39 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Someone said I want everything to be free. I never said that and this person knows it. Hyperbole goes both ways.


What "that person" said was "Free to Frank, letting someone else pay the bill". Which is exactly the position you've held for years of pointless debate.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:40 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Make Steamboat Willie public and I am happy.


Well, yeah, exactly.

Steamboat Willie is available in several free-to-public sources, and yet you still object.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:18 am

Barber wrote:
FrankChurch wrote:Make Steamboat Willie public and I am happy.


Well, yeah, exactly.

Steamboat Willie is available in several free-to-public sources, and yet you still object.


That's not it. Frank wants someone to be able to put Steamboat Willy in a new film with Fritz the Cat and bar the owners of both from protesting over the violation of copyright. He has no interest in watching Steamboat Willy for free, he wants it to be fodder for "new" work because he thinks Disney's ownership of it is somehow suppressing the work of wonderful new "original" artists.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:36 am

I want to stop Disney from having monopoly control of culture. I want Fantasia to be let out and offered free to use. It is high culture and should have lost its copyright years ago.

Exploitation is not freedom.

I want people to buy Harlan's work, I want people to buy Jello Biafra's work. But I also want a culture of sharing culture, culture that has no actual saleable value.

I don't want the police to go after people who do minor downloads. This is easy to get.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:18 am

I thought this conversation was over. What a dull load of crap.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:08 pm

Rick

If you assume that Frank is a chronological adult and a mental teenager, this is easier to ignore.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby AndrewR » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:50 pm

FrankChurch wrote:I want to stop Disney from having monopoly control of culture. I want Fantasia to be let out and offered free to use. It is high culture and should have lost its copyright years ago.

Exploitation is not freedom.

I want people to buy Harlan's work, I want people to buy Jello Biafra's work. But I also want a culture of sharing culture, culture that has no actual saleable value.

I don't want the police to go after people who do minor downloads. This is easy to get. ...


But in the interim you're willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Got it.

Let me know how the windmill tilting goes. Meanwhile I'll be busy getting my tattoo of a dolphin fucking a unicorn.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:52 pm


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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Duane » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:39 pm

A quick PS to my Pavilion post about Harlan's "Street muscle": Central Casting?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:42 pm

Does it matter? The one closest to the podium was worth fighting nfor. Not that you'd know of course..

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:59 pm

In point of fact, Disney does not have a monopoly on culture, but they do have one on the things they bought or financed.

The issue is that Frank wants everyone to get for free what others have paid to produce.

That is what we call a morally bankrupt position. Or theft, by any other name.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:48 am

I still don't know what it is he can't do that taking away copyright from Disney would then allow him to do? Or is this all about putting spotty-faced little entitled shitheads in jail for disseminating illegal downloads?

Be that as it may, the idea of Disney "owning" culture is an interesting idea. How does that work? Especially since "Disney" as a cognomen for a specific kind of cultural motif is part of the culture, whether they get royalties for it or not?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:24 am

Pardon me for butting in, but isn't there a dedicated thread for the copyright discussion. Does every thread have to be The Frank Show?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:28 am

Chuck Messer wrote:Pardon me for butting in, but isn't there a dedicated thread for the copyright discussion. Does every thread have to be The Frank Show?

Chuck


Just so. But admittedly, it's hard, like a rash you don't know where you got. Remember Judd Nelson in The Breakfast Club? "You couldn't ignore me if your tried."

Pointedly ignoring him would be just about as bad.

But I'm game.

So, like, we landed in Sacramento on the 4th at the tail end of a blistering heat wave. It was hitting 105 regularly. Kept us in the hotel pretty much for the whole convention. Fortunately, the hotel restaurant was pretty good (except for the breakfast buffet) and the bar more than acceptable.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:37 am

Chuck Messer wrote:Pardon me for butting in, but isn't there a dedicated thread for the copyright discussion. Does every thread have to be The Frank Show?

Chuck



Quite so.

Lets make this official, and accept my apologies for contributing to the thread drift.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.


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