THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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cynic
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:23 pm

Chuck Messer wrote: all the more irresponsible in a world with thousand of nuclear warheads still waiting to be born....
wonder what would happen if we passed em' all around.
You know, share the wealth.
follow your bliss,mike

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Chuck Messer
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:28 pm

We'll meet again, don't know where, dont know when....
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

cynic
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:50 pm

Chuck Messer wrote:We'll meet again, don't know where, dont know when....
ya think?
i really don't know...
carter's neutron bomb thing was kinda interesting though.
scary interesting, but interesting.
follow your bliss,mike

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:52 am

My humble observation for the day:

Unless I've been missing the evidence, it seems to me the LAST group in Washington to whom anyone offers support or talks about is the Progressives.

We go on about the Tea-Baggers, the Republican moderates, the Democrats who "can't legislate" (without clarifying specifically that it is the CONSERVATIVE Democrats - the majority in Congress - who have been hindering legislation), turning back to the Republicans when Democrats running for office side with Wall Street (as if turning to the very SOURCE of all our problems holds the solution!!), yet everyone seems to be silent about the Progressives - the only group - the ONLY group - trying to really get something done for ALL of us!!

If the majority of the Democrats were the Progressives we would have had ALL the legislation passed by now!

Yet, no one seems to see the solution.

It's up the centrists to wise up. If they don't, and the country goes where I think it's going to go, the blame will be on the centrist voters, NOT the leaders, NOT the Conservatives, but the confused-yet-arrogant uninformed voter who sees little outside his own world.

If this country is to change in a way that will benefit everyone, the landscape will have to alter dramatically. I guess the rule for any REAL revolution is utter sacrifice. When you TELL people what's going on they don't believe you. So, it generally requires total upheaval before they see things differently (hell- doesn't that explain crazy periods in history like the New Deal, when opposites as extreme as blacks and southern racists both came to support the Democrats? It's the final extremity of a crisis that brings us together, not faith in our fellow man)

That's why I've given up trying to find the logic in politics. I believe human beings are an instinctively tribal species. And that's not to our advantage, as once one faction holds most of the power it will shape the system singularly for its interests .

So, this thing may turn into a sanguinary conflict, whether it's before or after Obama leaves office!

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Feb 10, 2010 4:05 am

There are times I mince words, and other times I don't: I was speaking of Iraq.

cynic
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:45 am

Steve Evil wrote: There are times I mince words, and other times I don't: I was speaking of Iraq.
i assume that would be iraq into kuwait?
Steve Evil wrote: The last war for conquest from a major power was openly and widely opposed by most of it's people.
with initial passion and unfounded fear, nearly 3 of 4 americans (allegedly) were behind our (alleged non-conquest related) invasion of iraq.
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:29 am

Iraq was a "major power"?

That was what caused my confusion. To me, a "major power" is a China, a United States, a France, etc.

Thanks for clarifying, and I agree that Hussein's little gambit was a war of conquest.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:37 am

Steve B.,

I just want to let you know I think your follow-up to Cindy in the Pav was really, really commendable!

The effusive (ultimately, by necessity) sugar-coated tone caused me to grit my teeth at first, for fear it was going to be a deference to most of Cindy's position.

But you made the crucial argument factually correct and concise.

Now, for the Pepsi challenge (or a flip of the coin, whichever you prefer):

I HOPE you abate my pessimism, but let's see if Cindy replies and discards your points, however graciously, reaffirming my charge about "Republicans not getting it", or, if in fact, she weighs what you said, does a little further research, and at least begins a turnabout of some sort.

If she does the latter, maybe there's a crumb of hope yet after all. That's why I'd like you to win this contest. Personally, I don't think she's going to look at the issue any differently, because it's consistent with every right-winger I've run into. Even if you remind them that thousands are ill or dying because they haven't money for medical insurance - that apathy to all this is unspeakable (so much for being Christian!) - they have this religious paranoia about government, an imaginary monolith between you and your physician (mind you, NEVER have we seen evidence in this country to show that would be the outcome; it's a fancy kept alive by a groundless imagined fate . Yet, the real problem - profit-motivated insurance companies who really DO stand between you and your doctor - is something that just doesn't seem to exist for them. It's one of the purest delusions I've ever seen. Imaginary fear: it's another one of those instincts unique to human nature, often to our detriment).

So, let's see if my earlier assessments might be wrong, or if Cindy's retort turns out to be what I think it WILL be, reaffirming my frustration and pessimism.

Beyond that, where YOU'RE concerned, you did what you could and you wrote a good post!

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:58 am

The problem with conservatives is that they make excuses, blunting facts like a bat blunts a thug. Big government becomes the big evil, but they support a huge military budget, a budget that funds private contractors that bilk the public and kill civilians, beyond the laws of international norms. Big government taps phones, reads mail and looks at our library books. The conservatives pull the plow for the aparatus.

They also want to privatize Social Security, even though it would kill the trust fund. Big government is just a shuck. It is a way to demonize the poor, saying that these lazy poor people want to ride the couch, eat bon bons and suck up welfare from hard bitten Americans who work two jobs to pay the taxes. What about corporate welfare? What about the fact that colleges get government funds to do research on new drugs, drugs that make drug companies bank, where they can use the patent to stop others from making a cheaper alternative. There should be a government fee to use our public patents.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:09 pm

Steve takes the calm reasoned approach. Counter opinions with facts which are all on the liberal's side in this.

Frank attacks his opponents as not just wrong, but evil.

Let's see who gets a civil response.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Jan
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Jan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:14 pm

To me, a "major power" is a China, a United States, a France, etc.

And Germany!?

We don't have Chinese and French people here so you can't offend them, Barber, but there is a German! :lol:

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:19 pm

Germany certainly qualifies, which was the original point I made that it had been many years since...
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:23 pm

This joke was told by an Englishman to a crowd of Americans.

What's the difference betrween heaven and hell?

In heaven

The English greet you at the door.

The Germans are in charge of planning.

The French provide the cuisine.

The Italians are in charge of the entertainment.

In hell?

The French greet you at the door.

The Italians are in charge of planning.

The English provide the cuisine.

The Germans are in charge of the entertainment.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Jan
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Jan » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:43 pm

They're envious of Karneval which starts tomorrow:
Image

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:12 pm

The "civil" response or the "evil" response...

Ezra, I'd like to offer you a bowl of regurgitated stew.

How does THAT rate?


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