THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:50 pm

Jan...

I could as easily request a permanent secession of posts like yours ("let's prohibit eulogies in the Pav!", "Let's prohibit the empty banter in the Annex!", etc).

You're not as attuned to the spirit or tone as you may think, but having had debates with you on the board in the past, that doesn't surprise me.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Mar 29, 2010 4:58 pm

Well, Jan, let me put it this way: if you're concerned about what impression newbies draw from the subterfuge banter, it actually DOES set for them variance in tone, so they know we're not bunch of boring stiffs around here. I have reasons for saying to Frank what I say now and then, but its "GUISE" still offers the tongue in the cheek. That's the way I see it.

Having said that, I still think you yourself should give it a rest with the "rule book" notices!

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:37 pm

Jan wrote:Lori, what male posturing? In Barber's defense, I think he's only trying to make his little daily contributions. I agree that this has led to some favoritism, but eventually Harlan will realize that he remembers nothing Barber ever said or wrote.


Of this, there is no doubt.

"My words are ethereal at best, and worthy of no further consideration."

At least that's what MY epitaph will say.

But in this case, I'll settle for "Harlan realizes he remembers nothing of what Barber ever said or wrote", which indicates he remembers me.

8)

Okay. I'll settle for a handshake and gentle tap on the shoulder....
:)
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Jan
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Jan » Mon Mar 29, 2010 6:47 pm

I could as easily request a

Go ahead then.
You're not as attuned to the spirit or tone

And I thought I'm simply not capable of enjoyment.
if you're concerned about what impression newbies draw from the subterfuge banter, it actually DOES set for them variance in tone

This is the Pavilion Annex - it's for discussion, for conversation, not for more or less private banter. There are about 30 active threads here as well as PM's that you can use to your heart's content.
so they know we're not bunch of boring stiffs around here

How about intelligent people with something or at least half-something to say who don't compose posts in a microsecond, intended for an audience of one-and-a-half.
its "GUISE" still offers the tongue in the cheek

I don't mind humor but do mind too much fluff that keeps disrupting any attempt at continuity. Having different topics at the same time is difficult enough to follow, let alone the page changes.
give it a rest with the "rule book" notices!

Oh, my suggestions are an inconvenience to you?

I still feel we can afford to have one decent Pavilion-related conversation thread where the humor is a part of more complex postings, not delivered as pure pre-school banter without any meat or thought or spellchecking. I also have a right to suggest things that I feel would be an improvement for at least some people without being treated like the gum under your shoe, Rob. All I find in your two posts is a general kind of indignation and the opinion that I'm not capable of understanding the greatness and usefulness of some of some of your and Frank's recent postings. How about you take other people's views a little more seriously. I'm doing my part in providing a service to Harlan and his readers, not all of whom are babies who think everybody's a stiff if there's no childish banter and water pistols greeting them. I don't see why I would want to start a quality discussion or write something thoughful, if it's followed by banter and a page change.

If that's so hard for you to understand, Rob, then there is no hope for you. Not even hope.

But have it your way. I know you don't care, I know Frank doesn't, and I just stopped caring myself. One should just avoid and ignore you guys, end of story.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Mar 29, 2010 8:09 pm

"Go ahead then".

OK...I request a secession of Jan's "Rule Book" notices, particularly those aimed at Rob.

But it doesn't matter: I dismiss any of Jan's requests and shall continue to say whatever my protracted adolescence might dictate!

Stick that in your Teutonic tunic!!

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:01 am

Well this is the pavillion ANNEX and seeing as how annex still means what it used to mean (I checked) we should focus our discussions on the dominant topic over at the Pavillion proper.

THE FLY

What a classic of the cinematic art! Neither Kubrick or Kurasawa or Welles were ever able to make anything like it. And the scene where the FLY-man gets his head crushed in the big ole press, well it gets you right were you live.

Two feelers up!
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:01 am

I suppose it depends upon what the Annex is designed to be. In many ways the Pav is a freeform environment, so one would expect the Annex to be so as well. I'm not sure what banter is out of order. My guess is that the Pav would have a lot more of it were the one post per day rule not be in effect.

Maybe we need a more clerly defined role for this thread, since at initial blush it's a reflection of just about any topic broached on the Pav...
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby swp » Tue Mar 30, 2010 10:39 am

Barber wrote:I'm not sure what banter is out of order.

unexpected this is. and disturbing, since your name is up there in the corner after "Moderators:" as the only arbiter of what is out of order. It's not like you need to put it to a committee or vote on it.

That said, I thought this was supposed to be where we got around the one post a day rule on the other side. And no other changes to the basic rules set forth for the ADDP. As a bonus, of sorts, people who didn't want to reply to things or clutter up the ADDP could reply here so as not to waste HE's time scrolling through lots of mindless banter.

For example: I would reply over here that I thought my reply to Tony C Smith was everything that HE said, just using less words. In particular, my response to the second question was "I had one. Much like Mark Twain, if you want to know about me read my work, it's all in there." HE seemed to take a lot of his valuable time saying just that over the course of several paragraphs. Sure, it shows that HE is a writer who knows how to get paid by the word, but at what cost to his time? I wouldn't waste space over on the ADDP with that.

Another example, from this side: I responded to our newest Portugese flying blue monkey with a single response of "don't" when he asked about posting samples of his work here or on the ADDP. Should have been sufficient. But instead, a bunch of others piled on and said the same thing. To the point where Kafkahead thought it prudent to ask directly on the ADDP and got a direct response from HE (March 17th) telling him ... don't. Again, I wouldn't belabor that point over there, it would be more appropriately done here. (And I didn't do that here because I thought it was a waste of time. This is just an example, they all have flaws.)

I am sure there are many others each of you could bring up from your own postings. The bottom line, as long as Steve Barber is the moderator, Steve Barber should be the judge of what belongs here and what should be moved somewhere else. At least until he dies or we find someone better at it.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 30, 2010 11:59 am

Steve -- You kind of make my point for me. Like the Supreme Court's attempt at defining pornography: "I can't define it, but know it when I see it."

In this case, Iw as stating that if I can't clearly defin in and out of bounds on a thread then maybe we need a better definition of what the thread's intent is. I rarely, if ever, criticize non-sequitors as unacceptable, even though I might throw an exclamation mark in now and then. The Annex is not as clearly defined as, say, the SPIDER forums, where the intent and direction are clear. Open and shut. But here?

I don't consider non-sequitors and banter as out of bounds, unless they're flames or other attacks.

But Jan certainly has every right to ask that other take their comments elsewhere as a polite and reasonable request.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:08 pm

"I thought this was supposed to be where we got around the one post a day rule on the other side. And no other changes to the basic rules set forth for the ADDP."

EXACTLY!

Isn't this why it's called an "Annex"? As in a direct adjunct to the Pav.

Listen, Jan gets officious, and without paying a helluva lot of attention to the course or intent of a statement. My pokes CAN be adventitious, but in this case it was a response to Frank's intimation that he's above some particular topic. In other words, it was right in line with whatever had been posted here. So, no banter was "out of order".

So, whether or not Jan is capable of giving it a rest (or using some logic), the Annex is pretty much serving its namesake. If any banter IS ever "out of order", this is probably the ideal place for that, keeping other topic threads on the board more consistent. Best to keep the ramblings confined here.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:34 pm

Jan

I think you may have misunderstood what I was saying. The Pavy is the place that the male posturing goes on. I don't mind what goes on here for the most part. Even the things that bother me, only bother me because they tend to be immature or off topic.

I'm here because I can say what I want, and don't have to be too concerned about how I say it. Nor do I have to worry about pissing someone off and starting a very public flame war with someone.

Barber's job here is kinda like herding cats. Impossible at best. if I have a problem with him, or someone else I usually take it to him privately. Seems like the right thing to do. Just ask him, he'll tell ya the truth.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:47 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:Steve Evil what subject do you teach?


I'm a primary teacher, so I have to teach a little bit of everything. I went into it with an English background, but hell has frozen over and I'm finding I prefer teaching maths over literacy. One outcome, one method (maybe two), hammer the concept home 'till the little buggers get it, consult the answer sheet and the tests practcially mark themselves. On the other hand, how does one teach anyone to be "imaginative" or "creative"? I went into it hoping to instill a love of literature in the young, but finding that even at the tender age at which I get them, their habits have already been formed. I still think there's a way to do it: it's just not going to be the way I envisioned.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:41 pm

And Steve Barber, wearied from work, personal concerns, etc, is the guy who will determine when we get out of line, out of order, or whatever.

We don't need anal retentive individual members urging the removal of someone's posts because HE thinks it doesn't belong. That's Steve B's job. If he says it's "not out of line", then MOVE on!!

Also, to reiterate, the Annex is perfect for the rambling stuff. LET it be for the rambling stuff. It designates no topic thread, like the others set up on the board. So, LET it be the main dumping ground - for continuing threads in the Pav, OR to toss whatever salad of comments goes IN!

Then, if we get too assholish with each other, indeed, Steve B. will do the pouncing.

I'd say this perspective simplifies what's incredibly simple ANYWAY. If one member - like Jan - tries to dictate the course of an exchange (usually missing the ball on what it's about), I'm going to completely disregard it. That's where I stand.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:51 pm

Why?

I try to run the middle ground, only to have my own words turned against me? Rob, please, using my attempt at neutrality as the basis for a rant against Jan -- or any other user --is precisely the sort of thing that does give me pause.

As I noted, Jan has every right to express his displeasure and ask that the thread take a different tack.

You have a right to disagree, but it's not cause for a personal attack. Particularly when you drag me into it as if I've somehow supported one side over another.

Not correct, and certainly not going to win my defense of your right to snipe.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Tue Mar 30, 2010 4:07 pm

Steve B. -

Yeah, I acknowledge that.

But when I take something personally, I tend to take a shot back at that individual. My reaction isn't ALWAYS excusable, but I'm human, I get angry sometimes, and I can go off-the-cuff (probably as I just did). Once in a while that's going to happen. You can step in, as you deem appropriate. But if I interpret someone as being a wise-ass with me, it's tit-for-tat as far as I'm concerned.

Just for the record, because of my emotional state, I was NOT consciously thinking, "I'll use Steve's neutrality to take shot at Jan". I can see now how it READS that way. But that wasn't what I had in mind.


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