THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Kafkahead
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:38 am

Incidentally, Mark

I've a question about Jewish Jokes (as in built by Jewish culture and Ethos, not anti-semitic bibble you'd find somewhere else). Where does the arguing come from? What is the basis of it all, of the kvetching?

K.

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admin
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby admin » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:51 am

Yeah, Mark, I was going to mention if you look at the lineup their 4th and 5th best hitters (and maybe 3rd and 4th on a given night) have hit in the .250-.275 range all year. What made the Cardinals so dangerous the last couple of years was even if their 5th-8th hitters didn't have a lot of power there wasn't an easy out in the bunch. That, and excellent fielding. Now, pitchers get past Pujols (or just a little further depending on the night) and they can breathe a sigh of relief.

The Cards are a big-market team, so they should be able to do as the Yankees, Mets, Sox, and Dodgers and not have to compromise on hitting, so I am not sure what happened this year. I didn't follow the offseason as much.

I'd personally prefer for La Russa to be MORE hands-off, but he has seemed disaffected this year. Maybe we can get a manager soon who is hungry and less focused on his legacy.

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:03 am

Kafka, as with all things Jewish, I blame Jewish mothers :wink:

My girlfriend, who is as shiksa as they come, has spent some time around my family and finds it quite uncomfortable. In her Scandanavian/Swedish Lutheran family, people are generally polite, do not generally curse, and wait for each other to finish before speaking. Mine? Well, you ever watch Seinfeld? Then you have met my family if you combien aspects of both the Seinfelds and the Costanzas. Throw in the Italian side of my family, and a pretty safe bet would be that there will be one huge fight at every major family gathering

Wyatt, even though the Cardinals are a big market team, they cannot compare with the resources of the Yankees or the Red Sox, so I think the problems they have currently will persist for some time. The reason: Albert Pujols. They will have to sign him to a mega-deal this offseason or risk losing him to free agency. Pure speculation is that will cost somewhere around $25 Million per year (possibly as high as $30 million), and that additional cost, along with the salary for Holliday, and making sure both Carpenter and Wainwright do not go anywhere, would probably mean that the Cardinals will not have the resources to go out and fill in the rest of the roster with other decent contributors. One caveat to this, I am not sure how good of a farm system they have, which is one way teams like the Twins have managed to pay superstars like Mauer and Morneau
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:38 am

kafkabrain,

thankyouthankyouthankyou for that question. I nearly urped my Burger King, but good gravy was that a funny question.

Interesting point: Mark RARELY argues with me. SHould he decide to do so I would, in the immortal words of Clifford Meth, "..break his other arm."
haha

Much love to the Goldberg,
Rick

Kafkahead
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:12 pm

All is well in the Pavilion Annex, a peaceful corner of the internet where the occasional scuffle occurs...When suddenly, Boredom STRIKES!

I'm sorry, but too much inactivity leaves me in an incredibly hammy state. Nowhere near Shatner's hamminess, but close enough.

So topics... I've got one right here. Pink's hot dogs: as legendary as Unca Harlan tells us? Somebody tell me, I have a certain inclination to visit LA one of these days.

K.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Wed Sep 29, 2010 12:32 pm

Hey Rick

Seeing as how you didn't give me your email addy, I used the boards Email feature to send you the Email you asked me for.

Did you get it, or do I need to send it again??

Lori

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admin
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby admin » Wed Sep 29, 2010 3:07 pm

The Cards have always had an excellent farm system. When I was growing up the Arkansas Travelers in Little Rock were their A team (I think, maybe they were AA for a bit). But I'm sure you're aware that as talent evaluation has gotten more attention, especially earlier in players' careers, that farm systems have become more about building journeyman players and bringing up people already identified as superstars in a safe environment than developing new superstars. In the 80's the Cards farm system made them very successful, but those were hit-and-run, stealing, squeezing out runs Whiteyball teams. There was a lot more value to developing a great infielder, or giving a rocket-fast guy enough skills to be multi-dimensional.

You can say what you want about Billy Beane and the whole Moneyball thing, and history has certainly not born out the conceit that a small-market team can compete by being savvy and recognizing value players. But the one thing that really still stands out is the absolute dominance of offensive skills on the value a player brings to a team. I think it's horribly unfortunate. Home runs are exciting but they are not a ball in play. Neither are strikeouts. So much more of the interesting conflict in the game is simply pitcher vs. hitter. Consider a home run vs. a play where a fielder has to make the right choice to catch or one-hop a ball, then decide to throw to the cutoff man or to home plate, the cutoff man has to wheel and make a split-second decision to go home or go to another base, and there is a play at third or at the plate. Meanwhile the runners are trying to figure out what to do and when to go.

Now, you don't have those situations, and no one thinks it's as important to know exactly what to do, and you have runners doing dumb shit like trying to stretch a double in the top of the 9th with two outs down a run -and you have even more dumbass coaches and sports writers saying that was the right thing to do ("ya gotta be aggressive!").

MichaelRapoport
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby MichaelRapoport » Wed Sep 29, 2010 7:07 pm

admin wrote:The Cards are a big-market team, so they should be able to do as the Yankees, Mets, Sox, and Dodgers and not have to compromise on hitting, so I am not sure what happened this year.


If the Mets didn't compromise on hitting, you couldn't tell it from this year's woeful team. 13th in the NL in batting average and homers, 14th in runs scored. Disappointments everywhere you look, notably Jason Bay and Carlos Beltran. I say all this as a long-suffering Mets fan who not only sat through more than one bad loss at Citi Field this year (including a 14-1 shellacking by the Diamondbacks, of all teams), but is going BACK this Saturday for the next-to-last game of the season. How's that for being a glutton for punishment?

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Sara Slaymaker
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Sara Slaymaker » Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:54 pm

So I hear that Mark Todd is coming up from New Zealand to ride in the World Equestrian Games. I'll bet he gives David O'Connor a run for his money - although I've also heard that David has a hot new horse that is terrific at dressage and can jump like a jackrabbit. Should be a really interesting time.

Oh - I'm sorry. Did you not know (or care) what I was talking about? Who are Mark Todd and David O'Connor, you ask? Don't worry about it. One man's sport...
Change is a dragon. You can ignore it, which is futile. You can fight it, in which case you will lose. Or you can ride it.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby admin » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:09 am

Yeah, Michael, I feel really bad about that t....WAIT A MINUTE IT'S THE METS HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

reddragon70
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby reddragon70 » Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:06 am

Sports are a funny thing. They either grab you and drive you to deep passions or despair... Or they just dont interest you in the least.

Personally I could not care less about the main sport in the UK, Football (or soccer to the colonials) and much prefer other sports that get absolutely no coverage. For example I am a keen archer. The archery World Cup was in Edinburgh last weekend. The coverage for this even in the Uk press was precisely zero. Well apart from the archery mags and a couple of Edinburgh papers. Which all says to me that the UK no interest in anything other than the aforementioned football.

In fact to make matters worse, if you were to ask a youngish girl of say about 13 years old what she wants to do when she is older, in the UK a high percantage answer "I am gonna marry a footballer". Holy crap! They even missed the point of the question!!! Theyre being asked about a career, one in which they choose a job, follow it onward and upward and achieve something. Yet the height of their ambition is to be Victoria Beckham. A woman whose career failed and her only fall back is being married to a guy who kicks a bit of leather about. That is their ambition??? If so then this country is screwed.

Frankly I sometimes think that sports are responsible for just about everything wrong in my country. Just about every other football team has a hooligan element in their fans. Every time there is an important game on the whole country grinds to a halt as half the population goes sick so they can watch it. You cant move on the roads for drunken morons walking in front of your car waving a football scarf at you. Its just a pain. I'd ban the whole sorry spectacle.

Oh and for anyone who gives a shit about archery.... I scored my personal best on Tuesday. 529 out of a possible 600. Well, I was pleased anyway LOL

MichaelRapoport
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby MichaelRapoport » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:03 am

Yeah, yeah, Wyatt, the Mets were lousy this year. Not like your Cards exactly set the world on fire either, did they? Doesn't matter that you've got Pujols and Wainwright and Carpenter - you're watching the playoffs on TV, just like us.

Might've helped 'em if they could beat second-division teams:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 98244.html
And we'll see how many pennies you've got left to pay the rest of the team once you have to back up the truck next year to give Pujols a new contract.

(Hey, I'm surrounded by Yankees fans. You think I don't have to deal with trash-talking on a daily basis?)

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Thu Sep 30, 2010 7:49 am

Considering Branch Rickey started the minor league system with the Cardinals, I would expect them to have had a good one. The kid who pitched last night, PJ Walker, looked pretty decent, and Shelby Miller, another pitcher is one of their top prospects. Problem is, I don;t think you have much depth after that. However, if your Cardinals can roll out a rotation of Wainwright, Carpenter, Miller & Walker for the next 2 years, that could free up some cash so that you are not stuck with AAAA guys filling out your roster

Moneyball is an interesting phenomenon. Many people think it is a matter of emphasizing on base percentage (OBP) and that is not entirely true. What Beane wanted to do was to look at a partticular characteristic, OBP in this case, that correlated highly to wins and was not valued as highly in the market. He wanted to leverage that under-appreciated skill and did so very effectively for a period of time. Now that many oher teams have recognized the value of OBP, I have no doubt that Beane is examining other statistical measures to gain an advantage on his competition

Agreed on the mental aspects of baseball and how many decisions need to be made when a ball is hit, or even before a pitch is thrown. I have been watching games with my boys and poitning out to them where the fielders are positioned, as it can give hints as to a batter's tendencies as well as how the plan to pitch him

Michael, as a Phillies fan, all I can say is, it feels wonderful to watch the Mets suffer. Nothing against you personally, ya seems like a decent guy, but I fucking hate your team. Actually, that hatred extends to pretty much every NY team, dating back to the time a group of NY Giants fan formed a lynch mob to try to get to me (I was barricaded in a friend's room), but that is a story for another day
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:57 am

Hey Mark

While everything you said about MY Giants earlier is true, we are close to taking the latest home stand against the D-backs, a team we lost to less than a month ago in the exact same place we played 'em this week.

Anyways, I'm kinda like a Cubs fan when it comes to sometime stupid devotion and belief in my team.

With that said, I'm still sure we're goin all the way.

MichaelRapoport
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby MichaelRapoport » Thu Sep 30, 2010 9:03 am

S'okay, Mark. Feeling's mutual: I hate the Phillies as much as you hate the Mets. Where would we be if a couple of fans can't talk a little friendly smack with each other?

Regarding Moneyball: I don't doubt that it helps teams over-achieve compared to where they'd be otherwise, but it isn't enough by itself. Those Billy Beane teams made the playoffs when they otherwise wouldn't have, but they kept washing out in the first round - usually at the hands of the mega-payroll Yankees.


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