THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:20 pm

Frank, you make the point that actors are better options than politicians.
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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed Oct 27, 2010 5:42 pm

Barber wrote:
Ezra Lb. wrote:My thinking is that it's time to abandon the process of electing representatives. Let's just hire actors to play our politicians.


You mean like Ronald Reagan, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Sonny Bono, Fred Thompson, Fred Grandy, Al Franken, Clint Eastwood, Jesse Ventura, Jerry Springer, etc?


Yeah but even with Clint directing that would be a B movie. I'm talking A list.

Morgan Freeman as Prez
Kathy Bates as VP
Meryl Streep as Secretary of State
John Malkovitch as Sec of Defense
Sam Elliot as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs

Or hell just hire the cast of WEST WING...

Get that Entertainment-Industrial Complex thing going. Americans want a show dammit!
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:16 pm

I reiterate my comment on the Pav that these folks seem to be willing to cut their own throats to please their wealthy masters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... inionsbox1
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:52 am

Barber wrote:I reiterate my comment on the Pav that these folks seem to be willing to cut their own throats to please their wealthy masters.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... inionsbox1


I'll admit this mystifies me. The name of the game in a democracy is vote your own interest. I expect the billionaires to do so. But to see these lower middle class folks voting like they were billionaires is just...sad. And they're so woefully misinformed.

But the republican establishment is slowly realizing they may have created a monster. They might wake up one day and realize the inmates have taken over the asylum.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:03 am

Ez, I think the reason lower middle class individuals have been voting with the interests of the super wealthy has to do with wish fulfillment and projection. Essentially, the thinking could be that if they act more like those in the social strata above them, then they will become more like them in other ways and hopefully rise above their current station in life. Best guess I can come up with

Your comments on the Repubs creating a monster echo some I have made over time. The free marketers who have traditionally been the core of the Repubs have little in common philosophically with these religious fundaemntalists currently running the party. Buckley was a dick, and I disagreed with him politically, but could you really see him supporting O'Donnell or Angle? I can't. He might not have condemned them out of party loyalty, but he sure would not be speaking on their behalf

Within 4 years you will see the fundamentalists split off and form their own party when they cannot get the legislation they want enacted through Congress. What worries me is the coded comments from people like Angle saying that 2nd amendment remedies are available (meaning armed revolution, and yeah she did say that)
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:39 am

I am most appalled at the unwillingness of these folks to study history. They want, for all intents and purposes, to return to the 1920s. This is the period in American history most representative of their values and stated goals. And, to be sure, they were good times by all accounts. Right up to the Depression. Well, and except for all of the working children. And the robber barons. And the relatively low standard of living for most Americans. And the banking problems.

You don't even need to study History, f'r goshsakes -- just watch IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE!!! Sorry kids, we're the townspeople, not Mr. Potter!

The following, copied from Wikipedia is an almost uncanny description of where we are now, only we're in the midst of the recession changing to the very values which CAUSED the Depression. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_twenties

Warren G. Harding
Warren G. Harding ran on a promise to "Return to Normalcy", a term he coined, which reflected three trends of his time: a renewed isolationism in reaction to World War I, a resurgence of nativism, and a turning away from the government activism of the reform era. Throughout his administration, Harding adopted laissez-faire policies. Harding's "Front Porch Campaign" during the late summer and fall of 1920 captured the imagination of the country.

It was the first campaign to be heavily covered by the press and to receive widespread newsreel coverage, and it was also the first modern campaign to use the power of Hollywood and Broadway stars who traveled to Marion for photo opportunities with Harding and his wife. Al Jolson, Lillian Russell, Douglas Fairbanks and Mary Pickford, were among the luminaries to make the pilgrimage to central Ohio. Business icons Thomas Edison, Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone also lent their cachet to the Front Porch Campaign. From the onset of the campaign until the November election, over 600,000 people traveled to Marion to participate.

One of the most significant accomplishments of the Harding Administration was the Washington Naval Conference that set limits to military build-up around the world. His administration was plagued with scandals with which he was likely not involved (see Teapot Dome). On the scandals, he commented, "My God, this is a hell of a job!" and, "I have no trouble with my enemies, but my damn friends, they're the ones that keep me walking the floors at night." Harding's presidency was cut short by a sudden heart attack which some historians believe was caused by the stress of his scandals.

See also: United States presidential election, 1920
Calvin Coolidge
Calvin Coolidge was inaugurated as president after the death of President Harding. He was easily elected in 1924 when he ran on a basis of order and prosperity. Coolidge made use of the new medium of radio and made radio history several times while president: his inauguration was the first presidential inauguration broadcast on radio; on 12 February 1924, he became the first President of the United States to deliver a political speech on radio, and only ten days thereafter, on 22 February, he also became the first to deliver such a speech from the White House. He is famous for his quotation "The chief business of the American people is business". Coolidge continued Harding's laissez-faire politics. In foreign policy, he preferred isolationism but did sign the Kellog-Briand Pact as a way to prevent future wars.

Herbert Hoover
Herbert Hoover was the final president of the 1920s, taking office in 1929. He stated in 1928, "We in America today are nearer to the final triumph over poverty than ever before in the history of any land." Hoover signed the controversial Smoot-Hawley Tariff into law and was forced to deal with the consequences of the Wall Street Crash of 1929.

Decline of labor unions
Main article: Trade union
Unions grew very rapidly during the war but after a series of failed major strikes in steel, meatpacking and other industries, a long decade of decline weakened most unions and membership fell even as employment grew rapidly. Radical unionism virtually collapsed, in large part because of Federal repression during World War I by means of the Espionage Act of 1917 and the Sedition Act of 1918. The major unions supported the third party candidacy of Robert La Follette in 1924.



Scary.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:19 am

Mark: "I think the reason lower middle class individuals have been voting with the interests of the super wealthy has to do with wish fulfillment and projection."

Mark, that's pretty good. Just the other day, mulling over this very quandary, I was asking myself the question Ezra just raised, specifically with "blue collar" workers in mind. (Case in point, jobs are being increasingly shipped overseas thanks to the ongoing deregulatory measures; YET, they give their votes to the very people advancing those measures. Talk about cutting your own throat out of blind ignorance!)

The "mystique" of American social mobility - where you touch on the social strata - has been mythologized, romanticized, propagandized, and exploited like a societal "enema" since the banner of 19th century "manifest destiny" - imprinting an image in the collective mind of "self-determination": "if you work hard you can get to the top!"

For the poorly educated multitudes, this ideal supersedes acquired knowledge or understanding about the issues or the complex nature of the system. They pass on their blind idealism generation to generation, protracting highly naive attitudes.

THIS, in turn, provides the fuel for those who rely on sound bytes to sell themselves. If a party associates it's brand with "American Family Values"...it sounds great...to anyone clueless about the text of the policy. To this contingent, "if it sounds good, their IN!"

Steve B. got it exactly right too! The history! If the huddled masses would only dissect the history!

Horribly, horribly exasperating. ssentially, the thinking could be that if they act more like those in the social strata above them, then they will become more like them in other ways and hopefully rise above their current station in life. Best guess I can come up with

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:11 pm

Excuse me for the out-of-context question here, everyone

But has anyone seen Gwyneth around as of late? She's usually very active in the Shadows of Eternity topic, but the topic's been dead for a while now. Anyone care to give it some life with me, if it's not too bothering to ask, that is? After all, a story game like that isn't very fun when played alone... :(

K.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:26 pm

Gwyn mysteriously goes away for long periods then comes back. I'd guess it's because her Muslim training takes up her time. Or, she hates us. hehe.

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Chavez was in Portugal to purchase pre-fabricated homes, to be built in Venezuela, which has a severe housing shortage.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:37 pm

Rob, thanks. The observation came to me from an unusual source. I re-watched the 1986 film Manhunter recently, and afterwards was going through the Huffington Post and Media Matters wesbites. The lines from the film spoken by Hannibal Lecter to Will Graham kept going through my head, where Lecter says that the Red Dragon is trying to emulate God so that he can become God, and I saw some strong similarities between the actions of many members of the lower to middle class who were supporting the Republicans. They were trying to emulate those they wanted to be like

Barber, I still say that the period the Repubs are trying to bring back is not the 1920s but rather the 1890s, with such an extremely skewed distribution of wealth
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:49 pm

Kafka

Gwyn has a chronic illness that sometimes takes her away from us . I'm sure she'll be back when she's feeling better.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:53 pm

Lori

I didn't know that. Hope I wasn't too insensitive about it... I do worry about her. She's been reading drafts of my stories in her free time. The fact she hasn't answered me for a while now has kept me worried. :?

K.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri Oct 29, 2010 1:56 pm

Kafka

Once you spend a little time with our Gwynie, you learn to deal with this kinda stuff. I'm sure it hasn't got anything to do with you or your writting. You handled it the best you could knowing what you knew. Don't sweat it.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Fri Oct 29, 2010 2:41 pm

Mark - I love the cross-reference! That's the way epiphanies pop open.

Interesting, too, the question as to whether the head-in-the-muck Repubs want to regress to 1920's econ policies or 1890's. There is a very large "libertarian" mind-set in the party, but I don't know the proportion of free market "minimalists" versus "hands off everything"; EITHER experiment is destructive to the system. "Let the market take care of itself" has NEVER worked; it remains a tool of convenience for the billionaires. The extreme Right obviously recalls 1890's robber baron, and most, I dare say, of the moderate Right ingratiates 1920's policies.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby swp » Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:32 pm

It's A Good Life

This is the text of the story uncle Harlan mentioned on the other side. It gets scarier the more you think about it.


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