THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FinderDoug
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FinderDoug » Mon Jan 10, 2011 4:45 pm

Mark - Sarah has to spin. Has to. The Ultra-Right has been playing the perception game as a death match since before Obama took office, and they know the mentality of electorate, who still believes Iraq was responsible for 9-11 and that Obama isn't American-born. And through no act of their own, the Ultra-Right is suddenly on the receiving end of what they must view as a disastrous perception problem. I'd wager it's completely coincidental that one of Sarah's hot seats in her advertising for the Tea Party overlapped with some guy's need to pick up a gun. But the Ultra-Right know just how deadly it is, politically, socially, interpretively, to have a sound byte like that: "Wounded Congressman was on Palin's 'Target' List".

That napalm sticks to people, whether there's connective tissue or not. And while it's true, B doesn't follow A, there is no cause and effect to the two pieces of it, there isn't (and will probably never be) anything to indicate that the shooter took his cue from a Palin Tea Party ad - but for ten years, the Ultra-Right and their agenda-pushers at Faux News have been encouraging people to ignore B and just listen to reiterations of A.

Sarah, may I introduce Willie Horton? He's brought your whirlwind to reap.

Meanwhile, Rush spent an hour FOAMING and tossing out any and everything he can think to circle his wagons, including this gem:

“Loughner is obviously deranged, so where’s the left’s safety net? Haven’t we spent trillions of dollars to build a system to catch these disturbed people? Where is the evidence that their compassion works?”


Well, shit. What a waste of time compassion is, Rush. But we knew that about you already.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:08 pm

that was an ironic post Stevevil

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby RocRizzo » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:57 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Guys, I'd give up with using checks. According to hackers they can steal your money very easily these days.

I know a few hackers, by the way.


For that matter, I would give up on locking my doors. A hacker showed me how to pick locks and they are unbelievably simple to pick. ANY lock, even the ones that claim to be pick-proof, are NOT. Locks are ancient technology.
How's that for paranoia?
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

RocRizzo
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby RocRizzo » Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:59 pm

Doug,
Rush should know that the guy is deranged, as deranged as Rush is, he can associate with that type very well.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby diane bartels » Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:55 pm

One of the shooters obsessions that he posted about was that words have no meaning. I think, based on what I have read of his writing, that he is a paranod schizophrenic. Thus he probably is not morally emotionally responsible for his actions. He may still be legally. How tragic for all.

People think they can say anything today.If you guys go read the comments sections of the blogs on both sides, it is mind chilling.

Steve r u ok? Physically.

I think that sometimes it would be appropriate to ban someone from these pages for a few days. When they are being provacative and refuse to listen. Yes i mean Frank. You are hurting and offending many people here. You never apologize to anyone. You sound as demented as the shooter or the people from WBC Frank. Could you go away for a couple of days and give the rest of us a break. My heart is ripped out over this shooting this insane violence. So could you please just shut the rhetoric off for a couple of days? I cant stand it. I'm not kidding! Otherwise I will go away for a few days.

Mark it sounds like the party was a good one Happy Birthday again.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Jan 10, 2011 10:39 pm

Ok I understand the issue about the vicious over-the-top rhetoric coming from the Right. But I think this is a side issue distracting from the the real problem. This guy was mentally disturbed. He gets kicked out of school, he can't get into the Army, but hey want a gun? No problem.

The Supreme Court has ruled that banning private ownership of handguns is unconstitutional. Fine. But Justice Scalia, Mr Original Intent himself, in his majority opinion, specifically wrote that this did NOT preclude regulation of handgun sales by federal and state authorities.

The response to calls for regulation from the National Rifle Association has always been that this is an underhanded way to ultimately ban all firearm possession. But since that issue has been finally decided perhaps it's time for another effort for reasonable handgun control.

But if the sacrifice of a 9 year old won't change the Wild West Mentality I don't know what will. I think if truth be told once again the majority is slave to a fanatic minority.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:21 pm

"I think if truth be told once again the majority is slave to a fanatic minority."

I feel that's pretty much always been the case: the masses who heed their convictions to the exclusion of logic is the gasoline; the rhetoric by the few who control the media is the match. I didn't notice much change back in the wake of Columbine, so I wonder now how even the horrendous murder of a nine-year-old will shape public policy in the long run. Let's see how rapacious the NRA rhetoric will remain, and we'll know fairly soon.

I wish it didn't take this shit for people to wake the hell up in this country!

reddragon70
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby reddragon70 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:11 am

As I understand it, based upon my rather flimsy grasp of history, the US Constitution allows the bearing of arms in order that you can defend yourselves against the dangerous and expansionist Brittish Empire. Ummmm... That dont exist any more. The right of arms was to defend against foreign powers, none of whom are likely in this day and age to attack the US in a way that would make a gun a practical weapon anyway. After all waving a Smith and Wesson in the face of a suicide bomber doesnt really work, nor does the same work in the face of a government with a nuclear arsenal and the will to use it. The constitution may have made sense at the of its writing but it doesn't really make sense now.

I would not advocate a total ban on guns. I would however question the need to own a pump action shotgun or a sub machine gun. Pest control??? Fuck me... how big are the rats and foxes in the US? A pistol as I have pointed out is no use for hunting with, has no use in pest control and is in fact designed to be a close quarter anti-personnel weapon. So whay do people need them? Oh because the ciminals have them? Yeah they do, because of your constitution. And this circular logic of arming yourselves because crims have guns will lead to a spiralling death rate, more loons getting guns and assassinating politicians until eventually... One day, someone has the balls to say "Change that one part of the constitution. Its out of fucking date and we can then get rid of the hand guns and live in a more peaceful country".

And for the record, the ciminals in the UK have guns. Cops generally dont, but we do have special fire arms units who deal with these incidents. Gun death in the UK is very rare, but it does happen. Though thankfully nowhere near as often as in the US.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:15 pm

Reddragon

Us American's should be ashamed that someone such as yourself has a better grasp on the US constitution than the majority of us do. Spot on hon!

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Jan 11, 2011 12:29 pm

It's this refusal to think straight or to be rational or just bloodywell calm down.

Let's take gun control for example. . .

Why such an all or nothing thing? Why is it such a radical thing to say that suburbanites don't need grenade launchers? Why are concealed handguns an inalienable right and (and where's the data that says they make the streets safer?).

Folks living in the wilderness probably have demonstrable need to posess firearms. Folks living in duplexes don't.

The streets are full of guns, untraceable, easy to aquire guns, more guns than basket balls, and yet people continue to be shocked by guncrime! May I ask wtf one expects when guns are easier to acquire than driver's licences? They'll blame video games, Hollywood, gangsta rap, Marylin Manson, atheism - anything at all under the sun really, except the availablilty of guns. The fact that anybody anywhere can get one has NOTHING to do with it, not even worth a passing mention.

Every other industrialized nation on earth has tougher gun laws and less gun crime, but there's NO CONNECTION there either. In Canada, you can own a hunting rifle, but not a concealed handgun, and guess what? I feel absolutely safe walking the streets of Toronto at night.

But there are still people who think the solution to school shootings is to arm the teachers.

I suspect it is pent up frustrations of a segment of society who avoid masturbation.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:25 pm

The guy was mentally ill.

RocRizzo
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby RocRizzo » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:05 pm

FrankChurch wrote:The guy was mentally ill.


So what?! Did he live in a vacuum, away from all forms of media? Did he not play any of the hottest video games? Did he never listen to the garbage on the radio or TV ever?

As you said in the pavilion, anything could have set this kid off. However, with all the violence in society today, and the Right advocating violence, it's impossible to think for a minute that this guy was unaffected by his environment. Every nut thinks that what they are doing is right, that's why they do it. They need some means to justify their actions, be it voices in their heads, or stuff in the news. The truth of the matter is that there is way too much violence in society today, and it ALL needs to be toned down.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:09 pm

FrankChurch wrote:The guy was mentally ill.



Frank

As a certified crazy person, I'll be the first to tell you that words matter. And the people who say them matter as well. I'm not as bad as this kid, but there have been times I've listened to people I admire and gotten all worked up, to the point that I wanted to do something physical about whatever the subject was. Only difference between me and dude from Arizona is that I'm sane enough to stop myself and he isn't.

Just try to not use words for an hour. I dare you.

Kafkahead
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:17 pm

FrankChurch wrote:The guy was mentally ill.


Gee, Frank, you think so? How long did it take you to find that out?

I've honestly kept quiet about this all because I know it is insanity. You can see that right from the start. It doesn't matter who he is rooting for: he was paranoid, had strange ramblings on Youtube about mind control, claimed the very college where he burst into fits and destroyed property damage was illegal, and thought that the best way to accomplish his goals was through a small, intense act of violence.

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swp
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby swp » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:20 pm

ok, someone else said it first so I gotta ask: if that kid in AZ is nuts/crazy/whacko, how does he compare on that scale with Charles Manson or John Hinckley or Sirhan Sirhan or James Earl Ray?

I'm serious, I don't have any facts about this guy and I'd like to know. If there is a credible source, that is.
swp


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