THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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RocRizzo
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby RocRizzo » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:39 pm

reddragon70 wrote:As I understand it, based upon my rather flimsy grasp of history, the US Constitution allows the bearing of arms in order that you can defend yourselves against the dangerous and expansionist Brittish Empire. Ummmm...


As a history buff, I can tell you that this is partially true. The second amendment of the US Constitution is as follows: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Back in the beginning, there was no US Army, there were only local militias. They were used to fight British and natives from the towns in the colonies. These loosely formed groups of men, were expected to provide their own weapons to bring into the fight. Now due to the nature of gunpowder, they did not store it in living quarters, due to its flammability. There were specific buildings, known as Powder Houses, where gunpowder was stored, generally in a central location in the town, and made of stone on three out of four sides. This way, if the building blew up, it was easy to rebuild. When a militia was called up, they generally assembled at the powder house, got their gunpowder and ammunition, so that they could take on whatever enemies were attacking the town.

When the British controlled these towns, the local militia could not have the right to bear their arms, or load them, because the British controlled the Powder House in each town. The amendment was so that the government had no control of the people (in the federal copy, it was People in the copies sent to the States, which in and of itself begs more questions) to keep (posess) and bear (transport and use) arms. This put control of these powder houses in the hands of the people (or People, depending on your interpretation).

I know of a Powder House whose foundation is still standing from Washington's time in Newburgh, NY. It bears out my theory for quick rebuild in the case of explosion because only three sides are made of stone. And believe me, I have heard of some horrible fires and explosions in these powder houses. It's only natural that someone got the smarts to make them so that they could be rebuilt quickly. Especially during the Revolutionary War.

That's what I know about it. Not what you were taught in school, but when do they tell you ALL the details in school?
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RocRizzo
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby RocRizzo » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:42 pm

swp wrote: if that kid in AZ is nuts/crazy/whacko, how does he compare on that scale with Charles Manson or John Hinckley or Sirhan Sirhan or James Earl Ray?


Hinckley, Sirhan, and Ray were Manchruian Candidate type assassins, who were programmed by the CIA
Charles Manson's just a regular, run of the mill nutjob. Probably a bit nuttier than this kid.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:53 pm

swp wrote:ok, someone else said it first so I gotta ask: if that kid in AZ is nuts/crazy/whacko, how does he compare on that scale with Charles Manson or John Hinckley or Sirhan Sirhan or James Earl Ray?

I'm serious, I don't have any facts about this guy and I'd like to know. If there is a credible source, that is.


Interesting question, but since most of us agree that use of a weapon to kill an innocent human being is the act of a madman, I'm not sure there is a reasonable "scale" of insanity. Either you're insane enough to point the gun and pull the trigger or you're not. Doesn't matter if your motivation is impressing Jodie Foster; an anti-zionist pro-islamic agenda; a murderous communal cult; or an anti-government paranoid schizophrenia -- the fringes are the very reason the middle has to insist upon sociological sanity. If everyone drifts towards the edge, then these sorts of actions become the norm rather than the extreme.

(And c'mon Roc, pre-programmed assassins? Programmed by the CIA? I loved The Avengers and other pseudo-scifi espionage stories as much as anyone, but even *I* know it's paranoid fiction to claim the CIA was sending automatons to kill Presidents.)
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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:07 pm

So, when is Mark Goldberg going to apologize for threatening to beat me up because of what I said about Israeli history?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:22 pm

Well before the Israelis appologize for invading Israel ?

:shock: :oops:
yeah, i know. a failed, lame and inappropriate attempt at humor.
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:35 pm

Truly amaaazing how just one person, with no encouragement, or assistance of any kind, can be such an ass.
It is actualy well within my capacity to be sufficiently ass-like, that the entire planet earth's minimum daily adult requirement of assness can be exceeded by a factor of... 3.

yeah, that's the ticket.
follow your bliss,mike

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:06 pm

Lori, you are not crazy. You have just been around me too long. See, I'm helping you this time..hehe.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:20 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Lori, you are not crazy. You have just been around me too long. See, I'm helping you this time..hehe.

------



Maybe you're right but my therapist would argue with you. More important than words is taking responsiblity for the outcome of your words. Not that you'd acutally understand that, but most of the people around here would agreee withe 110%

RocRizzo
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby RocRizzo » Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:35 pm

Sorry Barber,
Sirhan, and Ray were programed. The CIA wanted RFK and MLK dead. They were problems that needed to be gotten rid of
Hinkley was quite sane IMNSHO. Of course I am quite biased, as Reagan's stupid policy led to the death of my brother. Reagan didn't die soon enough.
"Understanding is a three-edged sword."

cynic
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:07 pm

holy shit rocco
sorry about your brother.
i don't know if it was here or not (search engines are amazing), but you've written of your brother before?
but i may be mistaken.
follow your bliss,mike

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:36 pm

RocRizzo wrote:Sorry Barber,
Sirhan, and Ray were programed. The CIA wanted RFK and MLK dead. They were problems that needed to be gotten rid of.


This is the same CIA that had to be awakened and told the Soviet Union collapsed?

That planned the Bay of Pigs invasion?

That knew the 9/11 hijackers were in the US but forgot to tell the FBI?

That assured George Bush that Saddam had nukes?

You overestimate the competence of our intelligence agencies.

But more importantly, where's your evidence?
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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:40 pm

FrankChurch wrote:So, when is Mark Goldberg going to apologize for threatening to beat me up because of what I said about Israeli history?



There you go. That is not fair comment. That would inspire a man to anger.

What happens when someone in this forum is repeatedly rude and obnoxious over a period of years? When they require constant redirection and chiding. Frank continually makes himself a vessel of wrath, and I don't appreciate it.

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:42 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:
RocRizzo wrote:Sorry Barber,
Sirhan, and Ray were programed. The CIA wanted RFK and MLK dead. They were problems that needed to be gotten rid of.


This is the same CIA that had to be awakened and told the Soviet Union collapsed? NO

That planned the Bay of Pigs invasion? YES

That knew the 9/11 hijackers were in the US but forgot to tell the FBI? NO

That assured George Bush that Saddam had nukes? NO

Not that I disagree with your main point, Ezra



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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:23 am

Lori Koonce wrote:
As a certified crazy person. . .


You're not crazy. Jared Lee Loughner is crazy. Whatever else you might have to sort out, you ain't like that.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:27 am

So, the founder of the tea party nation (Judson Phillips) has this to say:

No one should be a victim of violence because of their political beliefs


Thankyou. Now can you stop bringing guns to political rallies Mr. Phillips?

And one of Giffords' supporters had this to say:

It's terrible but I think if everyone can take the higher road and conduct themselves with a little bit of grace. There's a lot of people who are angry and I don't think that's going to do any of us any good


Which is why Republicans are regularily eating Democrats for lunch.


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