THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:54 am

Gee, thanks Steve, now I have the quote from Conan "What is best in life...." ringing around in my head (lotta empty space in there)

Had an email exchange with Neo Con Ted on the blood libel issue. He is continuing to defend Palin's use of the term and arguing that she used it appropriately, making it about the accuser rather than the accused. I wish I could say this guy is dumb, but he went to grad school with me so I knew there are some functioning neurons in his brain. I do not understand how anyone could defend the use of the phrase blood libel
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:28 am

Toast.
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diane bartels
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby diane bartels » Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:10 am

Steve as in this little piggy ate Toast?

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:10 pm

Schmuley Boteach defended Palin the other night on the Joy Behar show. He said that the term 'blood libel' doesn't just apply to jews, that jews don't own that term. Doesn't mean Palin isn't stupid.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby diane bartels » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:21 pm

Well Frank what do you expect from someone called Schmuley Boteach? I mean Jeez

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:15 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Schmuley Boteach defended Palin the other night on the Joy Behar show. He said that the term 'blood libel' doesn't just apply to jews, that jews don't own that term. Doesn't mean Palin isn't stupid.


Well, and this falls into the same category as the KKK telling a black man he's being too sensitive.

Blacks don't own the N-word, so surely they shouldn't be offended by its usage.
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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:40 pm

what we're talking about here is the flippant or otherwise ill-advised use of terms such as blood libel. which we are ( i hope) agreeing is insensitive and borderline evil.

but can we agree that term certainly bears repeating in its proper context? (and we'll agree that context is narrow and specific.)

so too "nigger", which to replace with the equally odious term "n word" is disingenuous...what other word do we think of when someone says it or writes it out that in that manner? you made me think it, why not simply state it? it's perfectly properly used in it's careful, specific context.

all this from the guy who hasn't used his shift key since he was a little mick.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby swp » Wed Jan 19, 2011 3:49 pm

I have crushed my enemies, seen them driven before me, and heard the lamentations of the women. Life is good.

Because I am "management" and made that choice over a decade ago. That article was timed to come out when we wanted it to appear.

And for those who grew up "army poor" like me, wearing the same khaki diapers made from old tee-shirts, the term nigger is just another word. Unlike some terms that should be banned, like Nixon...

Rick: seaons don't fear the shift key, nor do the wind and the sun and the rain. we can be like they are. come on baby, don't fear the shift key.
swp

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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:22 pm

the streets will flow with the blood of the unbelievers


can't remember who said that...Beavis, maybe? After too much caffeine?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Jan 19, 2011 5:16 pm

Rick Keeney wrote:so too "nigger", which to replace with the equally odious term "n word" is disingenuous...what other word do we think of when someone says it or writes it out that in that manner? you made me think it, why not simply state it? it's perfectly properly used in it's careful, specific context.


I dunno. One of my favorite words in college was "fuck". My wife finds it objectionable so in polite company I use the phrase "eff" or "effing".

I would never use "fuck" around my mother. I would around my older sister but not my younger one. Don't figure my Dad would object if the word were called for. Might use it around our sales engineers, but probably not in a meeting with the VP present. (Maybe in a one on one with the VP though.)

Not that youse guys is polite company y'unnerstand. But my use of "n-word" is out of respect, not because I'm trying to play games.
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Rick Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Rick Keeney » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:55 pm

same with 'effing":
my daughters, who went to a christian prep, use that and frickin', but not around their pious grandmother, because it means "fucking"..well, except Chloe-she curses like a sailor to anyone in earshot

what we need is a euphemism, and if the substituted term is still harsh, that ain't a euphemism, it's the same thing

but, out of respect for whom, Steve? i am certainly not offended when a word is used properly. nor was I singling you out with the "n-word" usage. it's just something that occurred to me when you did it, i see and hear it all over. it rings tinny. oftentimes sounding as if someone is enjoying themselves tossing around a racial slur without, you know, tossing around a racial slur.

respectfully
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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:50 am

Keeney, just for clarification, is the proper context for blood libel a historical one, such as a discussion of relations between Christians and Jews through the millenia? Other than that, or a discourse on the power of marketing to induce violence, I am at a loss as to what its proper context should be

Also, the quote was not from Beavis, but rather was one of the few lines used by Bela Lugosi in the classic Plan 9 from Outer Space.
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:27 am

Rick -- I get your point, but you are not the sole viewer of the posts here. I used -- and will continue to use -- "n-word" not only out of respect for people who might be offended by its usage, but also because I cannot, myself, commit to using it even if I am making it my example. But in my case, I *do* take the audience into account when it comes to the difference between "effing" and fucking.

YMMV
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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:54 am

Wait a damned minute Barber?

I'm not polite company?? Well in that case.

Fuck you, the horse you rode on and make sure the horse isn't hurt!

*giggle*

With much love and respect

Lori

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FinderDoug
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FinderDoug » Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:10 am

Hey, hey now Lori - let's not be hasty here.

If the horse is hurt, we could dine REALLY WELL.

Of course, if it dies, we'll just continue to beat it. Either way...


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