THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:36 am

FrankChurch wrote:Great, Egypt attacks the Israeli embassy. Sigh.


Well, more accurately, Egyptians attacked the Israeli embassy.

It would have been an immense international incident had a sovereign country attacked a foreign embassy on its soil. The condemnation would have been universal (which is why "students" seized the US embassy in Iran all those decades ago -- it would have been a serious breach of international convention for the Mullahs to have been the aggressors...).
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:46 am

Just a few musings on the day after.

http://marktiedemann.com/wordpress/?p=741

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:47 am

He will speak at the book signing. You don't have to buy a book. Help a brother out.

He's going to DC so Ezra can help me out as well. We know how much he loves me...lol.

Don't forget September 11, 1973, when Salvador Allende was overthrown with help of our CIA. They dance alone.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:28 am

Frank

Well, then what do you want me to ask?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:54 pm

Lori Koonce wrote:Frank

Well, then what do you want me to ask?


Well if we're still talking about Michael Moore then I would ask him the same question I would ask Geroge Bush if given the opportunity.

If your cause is just then why the need for distortions and rationalizations and appeals to emotion?
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Mon Sep 12, 2011 1:34 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:... why the need for distortions and rationalizations and appeals to emotion?
bravo
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:05 pm

Emotion is how you get people to react, so Moore cannot be disqualified for such a thing. Our regular media uses emotion all the time. Emotion is how you get moral people to react.

Remember, if we had a decent media we would not need people like Moore to tell us the skinny.

Speaking of Moore, here's an exerpt from his book, describing the amount of threats and hate that come to him every day:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/se ... an-america

The irony is that these right wing creeps attack Navy Seals.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Sep 12, 2011 3:23 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:
Lori Koonce wrote:Frank

Well, then what do you want me to ask?


Well if we're still talking about Michael Moore then I would ask him the same question I would ask Geroge Bush if given the opportunity.

If your cause is just then why the need for distortions and rationalizations and appeals to emotion?



That much I can answer for him. Whether it's a book or a documentary, one must bring a certain amount of entertainment to the endeavor. So if it's not there ya gotta manufacture it. Bushie had to make the soundbite, Moore has to make the book and movie ticket sales.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby reddragon70 » Tue Sep 13, 2011 5:02 am

Frank, this ins the one thing I dont get about America. You have this wonderful constitution that iron clad promises you the right to free speech, then your country-men try to take it away from someone who doesn't sing from the right wing hymn sheet of Gengis Khan. Is America only the land of the free so long as you follow only the one ideal? Are these rabid fuckwits really that blind? I mena... Really?? Its bloody insane. It would be damned funny but your country is a nuclear superpower and is being run by a bunch of loons who think that God will save them or give them advice in a time of crisis.

Worse still is that they will openly attack anyone who does not believe in god, the right to shoot anyone, the right to invade any country that elects, in a democratic election, a communist government and generally the right to act dumb and believe that its acceptable to be dumb amongst intelligent people. I know your country is young by the standards of the world stage, but come on.... Take a long and very hard look at yourself America. If you see what other people see, its a dumb, brash, arrogant and loud teenager, constantly afraid and overcompensating by forcing opinions on others. America is capable of great things, but only when it allows itself to rise from the mire of insular politics it seems to have fallen into. Moore tries to get people to see that. Perhaps they just done like what they see, or what others see in them.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:28 am

Easy there. . .remember, most of the yanks on this board are at least as frustrated as you are.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:25 pm

Frank: Moral people act regardless of how they feel. It's called doing right because it's right. Those emotional appeals you're talking about are made for those who need to be brought to the cause.

Steve Evil: One of the greatest things about being an American is that the majority of us aren't pissed off by comments like reddragon's We realize that most of the nations of this world are willing to work with us instead of against us, and just like you'd at least listen to a good friend talk to you like he did to Frank, we do reserve the right to do as we see fit both as a people and a nation.

reddragon: Just my 2 cents, but you do realize that the child analogy may not be the best one to use. Current science states that from the ages of 12 to 25 the human brain lacks the ability to see the outcome of actions. Meaning that we often act without the ability to sit back and rationalize "well this may end up like that and that wouldn't be so good for me, or someone else."

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:25 pm

Red, the sad fact is some of Moore's greatest knee-cappers are liberals. They envy his success, because he does not come from their ivory tower. He sits on the barstool and tells it like it is, albeit mixed with entertainment, which Lori rightly says that he needs to use to get people to be interested in these topics. The sad fact is the left has failed and the liberals blame people like Moore instead of looking in the mirror.

The liberals wanted the same access to power the right always had. They watered down their ideals and went along to get along, supporting one of the most corrupt economies ever.

Moore and Chomsky and Me, we don't bite our tongues. We are America.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Kafkahead » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:10 pm

Sorry, everyone. Hit a bad luck streak this weak. Internet adapter on the PC had to be replaced and the laptop fell from the bed on to the floor in the middle of the night, leaving me without any internet access. Had to wait a whole week for the PC to get fixed, and even now, as I type these words, the damn connection keeps restarting.

K.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:17 pm

FrankChurch wrote:...which Lori rightly says that he needs to use to get people to be interested in these topics...



OMFG! Someone catch me! I'm gonna pass out for sure, Frank and I finally agreed on something political

*leaning against a wall and sliding down slowly*

:shock: :lol: :D

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:37 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Red, the sad fact is some of Moore's greatest knee-cappers are liberals. They envy his success, because he does not come from their ivory tower. He sits on the barstool and tells it like it is, albeit mixed with entertainment, which Lori rightly says that he needs to use to get people to be interested in these topics. The sad fact is the left has failed and the liberals blame people like Moore instead of looking in the mirror.


Moore's first film, Roger And Me, was terrific. He had the right idea---just let the people he was unmasking unmask themselves, which they did with hardly any prompting from Moore, and it was genius. At some point along the way he must have decided his audience was dumber than he originally thought, as he started editorializing extemporaneously and by the time he ripped that number on Charlton Heston he'd lost me. What he accused Heston of supporting was not at all what Heston was about and Moore just took the opportunity to do rimshots off a man with more civil rights and progressive creds than Moore will ever have. I don't disagree with much of Moore's message, but I find him an offensive toad.


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