THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:18 pm

Steve - when I make declarations by my OWN choice I STICK to them!

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:34 pm

Well we're making progress.

They're not posting about THE FLY over at the Pavillion.







Viscious? Me?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Mar 31, 2010 7:49 pm

I'll try to get CURSE OF THE FLY started!

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swp
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby swp » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:01 pm

am I the only one who reads the posts by "Amparion" and thinks it is Kim Owen Smith (aka KOS)? not sure why, it just feels right.
swp

Tom C
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Tom C » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:03 pm

"Waiter there’s a fly in my Dining Pavilion."


Send your comments like a doomed fly onto the Web...

Richard Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Richard Keeney » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:52 pm

Goldberg, you're an ass.

And for the record, I've never felt bullied here.

sargasmically,
Rick

p.s. doesn't moderated mean you have to first approve anything posted here, Steve?
"It would be interesting to know what it is men are most afraid of. Taking a new step, uttering a new word is what they fear most."
--F. Dostoievsky, from CRIME AND PUNISHMENT

Richard Keeney
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Richard Keeney » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:56 pm

I will tell you the conscious decision I made about my own posts in this place.

I promise that I will never say anything to you here, that I would not say to you in person.

Looking at you, Goldberg,
Rick
"It would be interesting to know what it is men are most afraid of. Taking a new step, uttering a new word is what they fear most."

--F. Dostoievsky, from CRIME AND PUNISHMENT

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Mar 31, 2010 9:20 pm

I don't wanna see Doug leave either, so a surcease to the vitriol!

I'm going to STICK to it!

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Jan
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Jan » Thu Apr 01, 2010 6:11 am

Barber wrote:As I recall, I was a great deal more directly involved at first, and most people here objected strenuously that I was going too far.

I doubt it was most people.

Let's make this point clear: No one here "gave" me anything. As I remember I was essentially drafted,

This is not important now, but, hey, we (Rick and us) did give you the power to moderate. Whatever it felt like to you.

Jan, I am not responsible for getting you an apology. I am not going to strongarm someone by threatening them with expulsion if they don't apologize

That sounds a bit like Rob saying I asked that postings I didn't like be deleted. It is simply a misrepresentation of what I do want.

As I indicated before, I don't need an apology per se (I've no stake in Rob's honor), but I do find it hard to think of something else that would deserve the term "proper resolution" in the sense that an apology is a sign someone's aware of having been an ****** and will not be an ******* in the future, which is what I would like to know and be certain about a person I have to "see" daily all over this place. Either way, I've been vague about what I mean by "resultion" in case *you* could come up with something else. I don't think I asked you to get me an apology, nor did I ever request that someone be threatened with expulsion as the only other option. I think I asked you to do your "job" the way you felt resolves the problem as best as possible.

Anyway, you seem to have done your best, I thank you for the effort and am not asking for more.

We're all adults, and conflicts like this should be resolved without running to someone else for resolution.

A typical wild west attitude, sorry. We have a moderator to run to. Don't use words like moderator or policeman if you don't mean them.

If adult would automatically mean intelligent, I'd agree a little more.

I don't have a scorecard.

One would hope you have a memory and deal with repeat offenders differently.

Jan wrote:I don't think we can permit that you renounce at the "day to day fun" out of obligations to Harlan and Rick. That would make all of us feel bad.

Barber wrote:Again, you presume that you have some control over this and you don't. The only "permission" I need is from Rick.

You think I meant permit in the literal sense?

Anyway, that makes three of us now: me, Doug, and you. (Not to mention some who already left in the past.)

I hope people understand that I'm finally done, after many years, wanting to tolerate personal animosity (with or without insults) on a board - partly because it requires me to react and to set the record straight about small matters for days on end. Trying to get a moderator to do what one wrongly presumed was his job is also one of the more embarrassing and unrewarding things to do, especially (but not only) if that person is a friend whose spare time it affects.

We all did what we could, and the file is now closed, as far as I'm concerned.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:28 am

Jan -
I sincerely hope that isn't the case, but you need to make your own call in this regard.

Since day one I've made my criteria very clear as to what I pay attention to, and how I will respond to it. No secrets. Your definition of "Moderator" seems to differ from my own, which is fine -- but since I'm the Mod it's my definition that is in effect. Constructive criticism is always welcome, but when it only comes in the midst of a conflict it tends to be one-sided. Not wrong, but one-sided.

Look at this way kids. Doug is clearing out. Barney rarely comes over here. David rarely joins in the majority of threads. Ditto Mark Goldberg. We're down to a core group of perhaps eight regular posters, though certainly a good group of them. When someone goes through a rough time we gather round and support them.

But when three or four of you get into a shitfest it drives other people off. I've let a lot of things slide, but can't afford to any longer. And I'm going to piss a few of you off. (As noted, each of the regulars is a great person one on one. I've broken bread, shared wine or talked on the phone with all but a couple a ya. And not a one of you is a jerk one on one.) Can it be we're infected with the internet troll virus, the one that loosens the normally restrained internal moderator? (Keeney, your position noted and appreciated. Thank you.)

We all come to this site for the (hopefully) intellectual stimulation, as well as a common love of Harlan Ellison and/or his work.

The topics and debates are terrific. Some of the threads here really shock me with their diversity and depth.

So why is it that common courtesy seems to be the one area that acts like a banana peal every time we cross it? It's the only thing I've repeatedly noted was always over the line.

And yet...

So, yeah. Until such time as I'm not having to wrestle the stupidity I'm "Moderator", a role I didn't seek and really have never enjoyed. That's between me and Rick, however. I don't serve here at everyone's pleasure, it's strictly Rick's call. Seriously.

Moving forward -- yes, Jan, if you're watching, I can only move forward not backward -- I'm going to do two things. One, handle any and all issues regarding insults or flames in a public forum. All other issues will continue to be handled out of view.

Two: If an insult is particularly bad or snarky, I'm going to delete it and simply note that it has been removed.

Finally, a personal request. Don't let me be the sole arbiter or board behavior. If you read a comment you think is out of line, even if it's not directed towards yourself, call it out. Peer pressure is much better than a Moderator's hammer. If you don't like the sniping, tell the person doing it -- either publicly or through the PMs -- that you don't like it. Don't call them names in return. Don't tell them they're violating rules and you're going to tell me about it. (You can, but that takes us back a step). Tell them to stop using those tactics and make it socially unacceptable for that sort of thing to go unnoticed and we'll do better.

Please.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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markabaddon
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Thu Apr 01, 2010 9:59 am

Keeney, don't be looking over here, bubba, lest I point out that Ben looks a lot more like me than you..... :twisted:
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:57 am

Jan

I've never felt bullied here at all. As a matter of fact its one of the few places real or otherwise where I feel a part of vital group of really awesome people.

I said it once and I'll say it again. I only have total controll over myself. And I choose to pick my battles wisely. If a bunch of people are waving their arms and arguing just for the sake of oneupsmanship, why should I bother. If something hits me in a way that causes me to respond like an idiot, again why should I bother.

I think the longest hiatus I've ever taken was a couple of weeks. I saw others addressing what was bothering me in a manner that I couldn't and figured the problem was salved. And it was.

I agree with David, we all need to act like the grownups we are.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Thu Apr 01, 2010 10:58 am

Jan - Having regained some equanimity, I'm apologizing to you as well for the put-downs.

Sorry.

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David Loftus
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby David Loftus » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:40 pm

See now, that wasn't so hard, was it?
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Thu Apr 01, 2010 2:57 pm

It only hurt for a second!


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