THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:19 pm

Well it's ALWAYS silly season with me, but. . .oh wait. You were asking Barber. Nevermind. . .

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:25 pm

I agree with Mark and Rob's assessments above. This morning I heard economists -- from both sides of the aisle -- note that you cannot balance the fed budget solely through cutting the spending. As Mark notes, the majority of the budget is unassailable: defense, debt, and social security. The only spending that can realistically hope to be cut would be so-called "discretionary" spending, such as Medicare, NASA, education, and others. That accounts for only 20% of the budget. In particular, Republicans would have to take a very hard look at their own districts for projects which could be defunded -- an obvious non-starter for a politician. As they say: "Roads don't pave themselves".

I agree that gridlock will intensify, particularly once the "No Compromise" Tea Partiers begin to exert what they think will be influence. Nothing will be put down faster than an attempt to reform the establishment, however. The first time a Tea Party freshman tries pressuring Boehner or others will be their last time, I assure you. The GOP has always known what to say in public, while doing whatever the heck they want in private. They talk a good game, but they have demonstrated a complete inability to work for compromise or legislate effectively for more than 30 years. (Seriously, the only piece of major Republican legislation which has been enacted is the Patriot Act -- hardly something they should crow about. Repubs may disagree with the details, but in two years the Dems completed Health Care and Financial reform acts which had been decades in a dream state.)

And as far as balancing the budget, the House will be required to raise taxes -- somehow, some way. Reality has a way of really effing up your ideology when it comes to legitimate action. And despite the GOP majority in the House it is not a veto-proof majority. All this talk of Healthcare repeal, etc, is a pipe dream if Obama retains a veto.

As I noted on Facebook and here: It's Day One Mr Boehner -- what do you have to show for yourself??? I don't feel any richer, and my taxes haven't gone down. Nor is the Recession ended.

So much for your empty promises.
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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:03 pm

A "contrite" Obama: The American people have spoken and I will reach across the aisle!

Isn't this what I heard for the last 2 years, with a landscape filled with roadblocks?

This has been incredibly weak leadership! The learning curve should extend to no more than a year or year-and-a-half! The kiss-blowing makes me INSANE!

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Chuck Messer
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:41 pm

Actually, I think part of the problem is that the Obama administration looked to be easily spooked when the Republicans barked. I mean, an Obama employee lost her job because of a heavily-edited video posted on AN INTERNET BLOG, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!! People aren't going to back a guy who flinches.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:54 pm

And about the Tea Party's shelf life: It reminds me of the American Nativist, aka, the "know-nothing" party. They did manage to put Millard Fillmore into the white house, but fell apart when it turned out all they were, were a bunch of people pissed off about Them Damn Immy-grunts. They weren't really about anything.

By the way the immigrants (satanic minions of the pope) were Irish and German. Some may have been ancestors of mine.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FinderDoug » Thu Nov 04, 2010 7:52 am

I'm curious to see how Republican performance (or lack thereof) in the next two years adds fuel to the Tea Party. I get the sense they're hungry for a differentiation from the Repubs to be more their own entity. If they can point to Republican ineffectiveness/business as usual and demonize them for compromise with the Democrats* then I can see the Right turning into a serious conservative pit match with each side trying to wrestle base from each other.


*While driving south last week, I heard about five minutes of one of Rush's** programs. When Rush is grousing about Republicans who are now talking about compromise*** in the upcoming Senate session, to the point of saying anyone who wants compromise can go to hell - yeah, there's some serious ideological fracture in play.


**Not that Rush is a good example of anything, necessarily, but it was interesting to hear just how FAR he's drifted from right center. I mean, I used to think he was batshit crazy. Now I think that's an insult to batshit crazy people.


***Never minding that before the rise of the 24 hour news cycle and Talking Head Syndrome and Constant Spin, compromise was the only way things got done and we managed to have a country that wasn't at its own throat. Now compromise is seen as weakness, even if it means everyone gets something they were looking for.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Nov 04, 2010 8:04 am

So much for Virginia being a blue state.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:07 am

Frank

Read this and tell me if your nickers don't get into a serious twist.

California for some stupid reason passed Prop 26, which makes it necessary for a 2/3 majority to be needed to pass a fee. We all ready have the same standard to pass taxes. At the same time we have made it possible for a smiple majority to pass our budgets.

Now, you tell me where the fuck the money is going to come from to make any sort of a budget. Not to mention the fact that we have now made it impossible to raise the funds necessary to keep our schools and transportation systems funded, which is currently Law.

You think it's bad in Ohio and Virginia, I dare you to come and spend a few years in California. If it weren't for my Family and good weather I'd be moving to Oregon!!

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:55 pm

Diane, while I suppose it is possible, I have never heard of a concession being retracted. IBasically, once you concede you is done as a candidate, unless there is fraud. f there were signs of voter fraud, that might be a plausible reason to do so, but I have not heard any serious allegations of that in the IL race.

I will post this on Facebook later, but here is a link to an article from Macleans about Third World America:

http://www2.macleans.ca/2010/09/14/third-world-america/

Barber's comment on roads don't pave themselves is the tip of the iceberg. We are looking at less police, less street lights, less frequent trash pickup, etc. Is this the kind of "wasteful" government spending ya think most voters had in mind? Look, I get that people are pissed about the economy and have the attention span of a fruit fly on crack (I can see the thought pattern now:I know the Bushies spent 8 years wrecking the economy, and the Dems only had 2 years to fix everything while facing an obstructionist Repub bloc in Congress, but I want it all better NOW!) but I also believe that thinking is going to come back to bite the Tea Partiers in the ass very shortly.

One of the major obstacles facing Congress will be raising the debt cap. Basically, they need to do this to make sure the government is not shut down and Boehner has already said he will not approve this without capitulating to their demqands, specifically in repealing health care reform. The effect of this not being raised could be dramatic. Best case scenario is a government shitdown, worst case is we default on our loans. That worst case would be catastrophic for us financially. It would really hurt the Repubs in the long term but is very much a scorched earth approach, cause it would do irreparable damage to the economy that would take decades to fix
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:30 pm

Lori, Howard Jarvis, may he rot in hell.

Yea, it should be a simple majority to pass a tax or fee. If the voters don't like it they can throw that bum out.

Balanced budget amendments are just awful ideas too. Sometimes you need to spend to get the sluggish economy moving.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:33 pm

This is why they need campaign finance reform. The idea that big money can lie about Marijuana, so that it continues the racist drug war is another boondoggle. Of course the idiot democrats stayed mum.

Maybe the tea party is part right--the dems are anti-freedom.

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:38 pm

A writer from the Independent thinks it all might be good news for Obama:

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 24610.html

(The Independent's a funny one. No two writers seem to agree on anything. Odd from a North American perspective, where uniformity reigns)

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:50 pm

Scorched Earth is evidently how they intend to proceed. McConnell in response to Obama's attempt to reach across the aisle:

Barely an hour after President Barack Obama invited congressional Republicans to post-election talks to work together on major issues, the Senate's GOP leader had a blunt message: His party's main goal is denying Obama re-election.

In a sign that combat and the 2012 elections rather than compromise could mark the next two years, Sen. Mitch McConnell on Thursday called for Senate votes to repeal or erode Obama's signature health care law, to cut spending and to shrink government.

"The only way to do all these things it is to put someone in the White House who won't veto any of these things," McConnell said in a speech to the conservative Heritage Foundation.


Um, yeah. Thanks Red States. More gridlock, less compromise. Helluva way to run a democratic republic. Seems you might be more interested in dictatorship than democracy.
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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:08 pm

Robert Fisk, John Pilger, lovely.

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:12 pm

If compromise is so futile, why do the democrats keep trying? What'll it take for them to show some teeth?


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