THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:26 am

Roc -- No. Got to disagree with you. I believe by "ISP" you're really referring to "backbone providers", but even then turning off the US's internet -- or Europe's for that matter -- would be a tremendous task and would be devastating to the economy (see below). Shutting down the internet is not like shutting down a private network, nor is it easily fit into one category of animal like "backbone provider". Add to that the number of POPs (points of presence) and general architecture of the net and, well, there isn't a single switch to be thrown -- or even fifteen of them -- which could accomplish it here.


Mike -- The way the internet is designed, Egypt had to have ordered several companies with multiple access technologies to completely shut themselves down. Their servers, their connectivity to the outside world, their connectivity to each other. Thousands of connections all idled. Everything. Same with mobile providers. The whole nations infrastructure is shut down -- a breathtaking severance of links which will heavily damage Egypt's economy. It isn't just that the consumers are impacted...it's that entire businesses are now completely shut off from providers, from consumers of their own products. Multinationals with operations in Egypt may very well be cut off from their subsidiaries. Supply chains, which depend heavily on web-based interconnections between companies, cannot operate in Egypt, so goods may not be shipped, accounted for, or otherwise distributed.

Private networks are likely operational, but the impact of taking down the net is a whole lot more significant than simply depriving some college students of their connections.

And for a government to give such an order is extreme. Not even Iran fully shut down their web connections during their own riots of a few years ago. And, perhaps just as significantly, the internet is, by design, not something easily "shut down".

Much too devastating to the economy.

It will be interesting to learn of the damage done to Egypt's business community as a result of this.

THAT is why we're all a little shocked.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FinderDoug » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:44 am

It would be very devastating to the enconomy, and disruptive to society as a whole. You think prisoners riot when you take away their cable TV? What does the government think all those people with guns will do when you take away their internet crack?

All I know is if Joe Libermonster is for it, I'm agin' it.

http://boingboing.net/2011/01/28/egypt- ... ed-of.html

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sat Jan 29, 2011 11:55 am

steve,
yes, you did go over your proper concern on an earlier post, and it gave me pause as well.
the matrix thing just gave me a chuckle,

"Network security experts Friday said they detected some minor Web activity, from a few institutions including the Egyptian stock exchange, some companies and government ministries, but an estimated 93% of the country's networks remained unreachable."

"The action is surprising given both the vibrancy of the Internet culture within the country, and Egypt's growing role as a regional hub for global connectivity."

"...the global links passing through the country handling traffic not related to Egypt appeared unaffected."
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... MIDDLENews
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:29 pm

"good" news
Army protecting Egypt protesters from police
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchan ... lice-video
---------------------
Friday 28 January 2011 07.36 GMT
""According to our analysis, 88% of the 'Egyptian internet' has fallen off the internet," said Andree Toonk at BGPmon, a monitoring site that checks connectivity of countries and networks"
"The company notes that Noor Group is the only working connection: "Why was Noor Group apparently unaffected by the countrywide takedown order? Unknown at this point, but we observe that the Egyptian Stock Exchange is still alive at a Noor address.""
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/20 ... NTCMP=SRCH
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:39 pm

The latest Kitchen Nightmares was depressing.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sat Jan 29, 2011 1:07 pm

frank;
"keep passing the open windows "
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sat Jan 29, 2011 2:22 pm

FrankChurch wrote:The latest Kitchen Nightmares was depressing.


Haven't seen it yet.

People or outcome?
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sat Jan 29, 2011 3:56 pm

America At Its Fundaments

Just some bullet points to suggest why things in this country will, indeed, corrode further in its economy and its society:

America is, by-and-large, a society that "doesn't care". The wealthy have all the cards: the Washington Lobby, Congress, the Supreme Court, and 15 years of deregulation. Hence, the poor can scramble around in the dark on their own, education is available only if you can afford it, the ill can die if they haven't the funds to pay their bills. This, to me, is the very definition of a people rotten to the core.

The corporate merging continues, quashing the crucial element of competition ever further. This, in turn, will continue condensing information released to the public, as the corporations gain deeper control on all media.

In conjunction with corporate take-overs, job outsourcing will continue. Thus, wages will keep dropping, as will the range in jobs. They've given it all to China, Saudi Arabia, and India. (You would think that Conservatives would fight this tooth-and-nail, but they seem hopelessly oblivious to this decay! That's the reason I throw so much shit at them!) This condition along and the merging I consider the most alarming problem of all. As long as these two problems prevail, we are dead ducks!

More than half the voters - the majority among the poor, included - are, in a word, stupid; they don't know the issues, they are swayed by rhetoric, they are bred on deep-rooted beliefs, however unrealistic they might be, and many are simply illiterate. Hence, they vote against their own interests (OR stay home, handing the votes to the money brokers), placing greedy fucks into power, whose sole interest is in the corporate conglomerate. I said it in the Pav many times, and I repeat it: America's voters are stupid. The are the MAIN reason we face these crises. They are the first to blame; that's why it's called a democracy. (Yet, it's peculiar how the voters never feel responsible for the outcome!)

The rifts will continue, and chaos will ensue. Find your bootstraps, 'cause most of us we'll need 'em! (Meaning, people more desperate than you are will try to take those bootstraps and hawk 'em at a food bank!)

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sat Jan 29, 2011 4:11 pm

Frank --

Why depressing? Just watched it and it seems to have turned out well...

(Or are you fond of texting during work hours???)
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:31 am

robochrist wrote:The rifts will continue, and chaos will ensue. Find your bootstraps, 'cause most of us we'll need 'em! (Meaning, people more desperate than you are will try to take those bootstraps and hawk 'em at a food bank!)
i dunno robo,
i think that might just be wishful thinking ?
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:37 am

Mike - wishful thinking?

Listen, maybe YOU'RE working, but lots of people aren't. And even as the work force picks up, wages will continue dropping because jobs will continue being outsourced, and, likewise, the merges will continue. Meanwhile, all the services are being cut to hell (whilst the billionaires continue getting breaks they don't even need, adding detrimentally to the deficit).

What sort of road map registers in YOUR mind when you look at all that?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:41 am

christ,

i don't see the future.
i don't expect all that much more (or less) chaos than usual.
i rather expect "business as usual".

the world, it's people, cultures, technologies ever changing.
appearing to advance, or degrade, depending on point of view.

the majority of people getting on with the business of life.
some genuinely content, even happy, others quietly desperate, but most (i imagine) are of mixed emotion.

a few genuinely abused and/or concerned speak out, of the injustice that is a part of most of our lives.
precious few are spared, or guiltless.

a few...not so genuinely abused or concerned, shoot their fucking mouths off as well.

and there are a blessed few vociferous lunatics.
some convinced armageddon is near, by god's hand... or man's.
yet both these camps seem so thoroughly delighted, as they find evidence of their predictions all around.
(mainly because that's all they search for, constantly, obsessively, out of fear and/or to prove themselves)
they know the truth, have all the facts, they see the signs, they can foretell the future, they "get it".

and one of them may be right.

but...i expect..."business as usual".
i don't see the future.

which brings to mind a favorite i just may watch on netflix tonight, The Illustrated Man.
in an attempt to remember the bookend lines,(they differ slightly?);

"he who tries to see into the future faces questions to which there cannot be absolute answers."
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:19 am

Mike, give me a break. I'm not talking your mystic shit. You ALWAYS seem to go there! (Remember your dopey 'hopgoblins' crack last year, when I was expressing alarm at the polls turning against Obama, and favoring Republicans?)

History is - and you damn well know this (however detached you're inclined to be) - an unending series of events interconnected directly or indirectly which follow statistical models and yield the probability of outcome. Chaos is part of that model. The "future" follows what precedes it.

The Great Depression was "chaos", the McCarthy era was "chaos", the resistance to the Civil Rights movement was "chaos". In the wake of each, our system altered radically.

Today, we are in many ways in uncharted waters. Never before have we seen corporate merging or jobs outsourced to other countries on this scale. No future is set in stone, but when stones are set there is already a path to follow! It's a fact that as class rifts widen, the system breaks down. One reason the LA riots took place in the early 90's is because a vast percentage of the black community had been marginalized economically and socially, and confronted by "loose" tactics and racial profiling by the police; in response to cops being acquitted for the Rodney King beating, black populations, all over the country, in fact, said "enough is enough". Chaos ensued, bringing change to many standards in the system.

BTW, I was in my teens when I predicted something like that would happen; because I'd read a lot of history about class rifts when they are left unheeded (that's even what the Jack The Ripper sensation was all about in ITS day!)

My sense, Mike, is that you simply don't know much about this stuff; which is fine, but if it's true you should stay clear of the smart-ass shit.

Side-note: the movie version of THE ILLUSTRATED MAN got universally panned; Bradbury himself was chagrined by the treatment. I spoke to its director once, too.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:57 am

robochrist wrote:Mike, give me a break. I'm not talking your mystic shit. You ALWAYS seem to go there!

Side-note: the movie version of THE ILLUSTRATED MAN got universally panned; Bradbury himself was chagrined by the treatment. I spoke to its director once, too.
keep telling us about your predictions coming true, rob.
i'm not the mystic here .

i'm sorry mr. b. was chagrined , but i enjoyed the movie.
i don't give a fuck that you spoke to the director.
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Jan 30, 2011 10:45 am

I have enjoyed many a work that has chagrinned its creators. . .


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