THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Gwyneth M905
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:51 pm

Wael Ghonim and Egypt's New Age Revolution:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LxJK6SxGCAw

He's right when he says it's their responsibility now to live up to the ideals of the revolution. THAT'S what will create a lasting, stable democracy with economic parity for all.

Oh, and just FYI the gap between rich and poor is now *worse* in the U.S. than in Egypt.
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:55 pm

Gwyneth,

I don't quite follow your analogy to the moonshiners and I was hoping you might clarify.

The moonshiners - and the large constituent this country inherited from it - undermined the ideal function government SHOULD serve, BY the People and FOR the people, offering protections in behalf of those less disadvantaged to the most powerful factions in the population. The moonshiners who opposed Washington had no grasp of the taxes needed for the public infrastructure (hell, even then they needed paths and dirt roads for their horse carriages!). Instead of participating in the process of building a civilization, they attacked and sometimes killed the tax collectors.

Today, this mentality festers under the "libertarian" mantra, as you point out, foolishly handing over complete power to the nation's wealthiest, tilting the crucial balances that define a Republic, and surrendering democracy to a corporate oligarchy, serving the path to a fascist state.

Thus, I have nothing less than contempt for these intellectually butt-fucked hillbillies, who remain hopelessly blind to the weights of factionalism.

That's what Madison wrote about in the Federalist Papers, and Washington, whom these dopey Teabaggers love to redefine and misrepresent, was totally savvy about the need to balance this scale.

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:57 pm

Oh, Jeezus. I mean "less advantaged" not "less disadvantaged".

I don't wanna look for the rest of my typos. I'll be too embarrassed!

Gwyneth M905
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:05 am

Hi, Rob,

Yeah, you're right -- brain fart on my watch. I wasn't reading your piece closely or carefully enough (and I'm on a ton of psych meds tonight [no joke]). The point I thought you were trying to make was that the rabble rousers shook the power structure *just* enough to keep the government responsive to the people whom they were supposed to serve.

Going back, a more careful reading proves I was totally stoned out of my fricken' gourd. :P

So, yes, you're right the moonshiners aren't a good analogy at all for the Egyptian revolutionaries. The moonshiners, and correct me if I'm getting it wrong again, are only looking out for their own good, from a low angle, small picture POV. They couldn't give less of a shit how their actions affect others in the society, so long as "they get theirs".

The revolutionaries in Egypt are more concerned with the common welfare, and have banded together rallying around the cause of a better Egypt, one free from corruption and graft.

If they were moonshiners, they would prefer the corruption and graft, because then they could just pay off the thugs/police/gov't. and get on with their dirty business. Just like the big banks and corporations (are you listening Koch bros?) are doing today.

OK, sorry dude, I'm really exhausted and can't put a sentence together anymore. Hope this makes more sense. Check out that interview with the Google executive. I think he puts things in the right perspective.
Peace,
G.
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

Gwyneth M905
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:14 am

Good NYT article:
Why Egypt's Revolution Isn't Like Iran's http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/world/middleeast/13islam.html
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

Gwyneth M905
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:19 am

OK, last post for the evening....
Nicholas Kristof's take on the Egyptian Revolution: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/opinion/13kristof.html
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:47 am

Gwyneth, if you're stoned I'm EXTREMELY envious!

These days I NEED a serious STONIN'!

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robochrist
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:07 am

Gwyn: "The moonshiners, and correct me if I'm getting it wrong again, are only looking out for their own good, from a low angle, small picture POV."

Oh, totally. To be fair, in the early years of our constitutional government, the moonshiners relied on the profits they made from their stills for their very lives. For profit. But the culture evolved in a separate orbit - its own world, once these groups literally "ran for the hills"!

The result was a strictly-for-profit mind-set that extended through the generations, embedding an "anti-government" sentiment REGARDLESS of the job or occupation. They were never able to connect with the bigger picture about powerful factions and money barons controlling the country's policy; their own little profits are all they ever understood. Naturally, politicians representing big business exploited these sentiments for THEIR own purposes and their powerful constituents (that's why the Washington lobby has been such a poison to the system).

All these components are bound tightly together, each with a tide that lapses across to the other; but most people, I believe, are only mindful of one or a few of the components, and therefore only see a small piece of the great picture. That's why we're in so much trouble with Wall Street!

Carrying THAT analogy to the Egyptian people, it is hard to say how many are cognizant of the kind of complexities they otherwise need to understand, but the majority of them BETTER or, like so many working class factions everywhere, they will get exploited, tricked, and splintered among their own. I just think it's so damn important to understand or examine how all the parts fit together. It's the only way a system can be devised in a way that will benefit everyone. It's too inevitable that one set of bastards will horde the power to themselves; it's just in our genes!!

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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:21 pm

Welcome back Gwynie. That gaping empty spot at the table was just too quiet for my liking. . .

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:22 pm

Steve Evil wrote:Welcome back Gwynie. That gaping empty spot at the table was just too quiet for my liking. . .



Ditto.

In extremis.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:30 pm

Gotta love those apostate Muslims.

Welcome back Gwyn. You might as well bathe in a bathtub of coffee. One fantasy of mine.

Everybody is wacking their gums about Egypt--right now we need to hope they can manage themselves. The global cops need to send butterflies, not bombs.

----------

Lori, ahhhhhhhh.

Gwyneth M905
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:48 pm

robochrist wrote:Gwyneth, if you're stoned I'm EXTREMELY envious!

These days I NEED a serious STONIN'!



Honey, if you could take the drugs I'm takin'...alla I'm gonna say is...Cheech and Chong, Harold and Kumar, Laurel and Hardy....um wait, scratch that last pair...oh hell, keep 'em in I like to lick pie cream off my face occasionally...would be envious! :P :lol:

(at least it keeps me from seeing bugs crawling up the walls and dinosaurs hiding in the corners. No kidding.)
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

Gwyneth M905
Posts: 1260
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:49 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Gotta love those apostate Muslims.

Welcome back Gwyn. You might as well bathe in a bathtub of coffee. One fantasy of mine.

Everybody is wacking their gums about Egypt--right now we need to hope they can manage themselves. The global cops need to send butterflies, not bombs.


I'll brew the coffee if you make the bubbles. :P :lol:
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

Gwyneth M905
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Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:40 pm
Location: San Francisco, California

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:51 pm

Barber wrote:
Steve Evil wrote:Welcome back Gwynie. That gaping empty spot at the table was just too quiet for my liking. . .



Ditto.

In extremis.


Steve Evil and Steven, thank you. :) It's really good to have a place where I can be out about my illness and have people still accept me as I am. Lori, you're a queen and I owe you coffee and pie as soon as my brain decides it's time to settle down. :D

And has anyone seen Kafkahead around here? He PM'd me and I was too sick to respond. How's he doing?

I've missed you all!!!!
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)

Gwyneth M905
Posts: 1260
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:40 pm
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:04 pm

robochrist wrote:All these components are bound tightly together, each with a tide that lapses across to the other; but most people, I believe, are only mindful of one or a few of the components, and therefore only see a small piece of the great picture. That's why we're in so much trouble with Wall Street!

Carrying THAT analogy to the Egyptian people, it is hard to say how many are cognizant of the kind of complexities they otherwise need to understand, but the majority of them BETTER or, like so many working class factions everywhere, they will get exploited, tricked, and splintered among their own. I just think it's so damn important to understand or examine how all the parts fit together. It's the only way a system can be devised in a way that will benefit everyone. It's too inevitable that one set of bastards will horde the power to themselves; it's just in our genes!!


Rob, seriously, I'd vote for you if you ran for supervisor here in SF. Or for state senator for that matter. People just will not understand, or so it seems by all reports of the teabaggers that they are being fucked up the ass by the Koch brothers and big business. They side with the superrich against their own best interests.

Some guy eatin' mac'n'cheese thinks he's gonna win the lottery so he should vote for tax breaks for billionaires? Man, those teabaggers (I know one personally) are just so fucking hypocritical it's loathsome. My pet teabagger went on the astroturf "March on Washington"--with busses provided from NYC to DC care of the Koch brothers, relies on Medicare and yet was vocally screeching about Obamacare and "death panels". When I pointed out that she was old enough to be collecting social security and medicare she freaked out on me because she's an actress and she thinks I was giving away her age. Delusional. And coming from me? That *means* something.

Hey, I'm all for capitalism, but these guys are all proven tax-evaders to the tune of BILLIONS of dollars--and Obama wants to cut Sesame Street?!!?! (OK, so I lie, he doesn't but it's in the GOP's plan, and at this point I think our POTUS is about bought and paid for by the big business system.) Sorry folks. I was seriously in Obama's camp, and now I'm seriously disappointed, especially after he passed GE salmon and the Monsanto "Franken-food" alfalfa and sugarbeets.

Re: the Egyptian people, listening to the Wael Ghonem interview, *he* seems pretty savvy that the main issue facing Egypt is the graft and theft of billions of dollars. I think that's pretty much understood throughout the society. At least, I hope so. I really don't see this becoming a religious issue, because people are just so fucking angry about the economic injustice they don't give a rat's ass whether the guy stealing the money had a big beard or a business suit. They want their tax money back, they want their economy back, and it's going to be up to the people of Egypt to squeeze the bastards to get it.
I want to learn the ways of the Force and become a Jedi Knight, the same as my Father.
STAR WARS (1977)


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