THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:29 pm

Diane, my dear, humour, walk barefoot through it. It be your friend.

Diane, did you know--me being serious now, get ready--that Chicago's parking meters were all given over to a group, one owned by arabs? I mean the bad ones in the middle east, the ones with the robes who ride on sand and lots of oil. Your idiot mayor, the corrupt baboon Daley gave them up to help a budget shortfall. Others tried to sell the Pennsylvania Turnpike to arabs as well--the overrated, odious Ed Rendall. Luckily that didn't go over.

We are selling our country over to bad guys. The terrorists have won.

Diane, be well.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:35 pm

FrankChurch wrote:I mean well informed students should question their teachers, just as we should question authority and defy it.


Teenagers are all alike in more respects that we can understand as adults. All my friends were reading Stephen King when I was growing up. I didn't want to look foolish or different, so I read a lot of his stuff as well.

Hell, I had to find Unka Harlan's name in the dedication of a Clive Barker book before I even THOUGHT of picking up one of his books.

What good is any art, visual or otherwise, if it's not challenging you?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby paul » Sat Feb 19, 2011 7:51 pm

Gwynnie, good to see (read) you again! Hope all is happy and healthy.
Aww, I guess that goes for the rest of ya as well.

Anybody heard from Loftus? I haven't looked at his website in a while. Seems like ages since I read anything from him.
The medium is the message.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:09 pm

FrankChurch wrote:So many Nightmare Kitchens are in New Jersey. This explains where the bodies are buried: They don't bury them, they serve them in their food.


I'd be lying if I didn't admit to having noticed this.

Kinda the suburban Fried Green Tomatoes.
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Chuck Messer
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:34 pm

Well informed students, Frank? Isn't that an oxymoron? A lot of these chimps can't spell worth shit. They can't form complete sentences. I'll bet a lot of them can't find their own home state on the map of the US. Are you sure you want them to select the books to read?

Chuck
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Steve Evil
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:15 am

Teenage rebellion and defiance of authority. . .

When I was a teenager I noticed something funny going on. I noticed that rebellion had been comodified. People my age took pride in defying all manner of "authority", but
were actually the biggest bunch of conformists you've ever met. While they gave lip service to "rebellion", their lives were entirely dominated by the group mind: fashion mainly, but television, music, and status commodities as well. Free-will or inquiry or critical thinking were pretty much non-existant. They'd been brainwashed into defying their parents and their teachers but ate straight from the hand of capitalism. I thought this was a much more dangerous kind of conformity than anything my teachers pulled off. It was certainly more repressive: my elders largely let me be, but my peers dictated every move and punished dissent ruthelessly.

It was them I had to do battle with.

So I've always been a little skeptical of this idea that teachers were simply agents of the status quo. Obviously I now have a particular interest. . .



(Why thankyou Diane, how sweet of you to say!

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:13 pm

I'm sorry but I know plenty of very smart young people. We need them. They are our warriors of the future.

This is why it is important that kids have great teachers that will teach them how to enjoy the fruits of learning. This is why I read Alfie Kohn who knows several.

John Dewey wasn't wrong.

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Barber, did you see Grasshopper Also? Good God, my head still hurts.

"You mean chicken shouldn't be green? Duhhh." lol

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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:14 pm

For fun I'd love to make a pilgrimage to every restaurant Ramsay saves. Would love to see how good the food is.

Actually, I'm in Cincy and one restaurant is in Indiana. I may have to make a road trip.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sun Feb 20, 2011 4:56 pm

FrankChurch wrote:For fun I'd love to make a pilgrimage to every restaurant Ramsay saves. Would love to see how good the food is.

Actually, I'm in Cincy and one restaurant is in Indiana. I may have to make a road trip.


We've got a couple of Ramsay's restaurants here in LA (Gordon Ramsay at The London and the Boxwood Café). We haven't been to either of them -- we don't often get up to dine in the Hollywood area, and when we do it's usually to meet friends at Prizzi's Piazza.

I kinda figure it's 50/50 on visiting one he's "saved".

If you check it out let us know...
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Tom C
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Tom C » Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:19 pm

Lori Koonce wrote:What good is any art, visual or otherwise, if it's not challenging you?


I dunno. I love Van Gogh's work but I cant say I find it challenging. Can’t we appreciate art without it being challenging?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Gwyneth M905 » Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:55 pm

robochrist wrote:Ezra: "Ignorance always has an opinion."

Or, as I put it in my own words, "the more ignorant people are the more arrogant they tend to be!"


Can I push the "like" button on this one? :)
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Mark Tiedemann
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:20 pm

Chuck Messer wrote:Well informed students, Frank? Isn't that an oxymoron? A lot of these chimps can't spell worth shit. They can't form complete sentences. I'll bet a lot of them can't find their own home state on the map of the US. Are you sure you want them to select the books to read?

Chuck



Some things obviously never change. It's been some time since I was in high school, but my problem was the syllabus was too simplistic. (I talk to some kids now and hear what they have to read and I think "I was cheated!")

The real problem is the few students who do read broadly and deeply get stuck in classrooms with the disinterested multitude and the teachers, already overworked, can't or won't acknowledge the challenges given by better read students while trying to convince the rest to even open the book.

I took issue with what my school required me to read (because by the time I got there, I'd already read it and more besides) and wanted to know why we were wasting time over Great Expectations or The Red Pony when we could be discussing Bleak House or The Grapes of Wrath. Most of my teachers treated me like a pain in the ass, but one told me, quite seriously, that we read the first two because no one in the administration thought we'd read anything as long as the latter two. And on that basis, the syllabus was chosen in my high school. Length.

Which meant that students like me were largely ignored. So if we went off to read on our own, it made no difference, we weren't going to be talking about "those" books in class anyway. A recipe for disaster, that, since the natural arrogance of teen-agers is thus compounded by the impression that we're both smarter than our teachers were and better read.

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Chuck Messer
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:16 pm

I think perhaps I was feeling a bit grumpy when I wrote the above passage, although I do think too many parents encourage a rather lazy, sloppy attitude toward learning. I also think schools can neglect certain fields of study, and with school cutbacks, it can only get worse before it gets better -- if it does get better.

I did have some very good teachers in high school, especially in the History department. Mr. Autry (who, as I look back, was a dead ringer for Hank Hill) and Mr. Mattivi were both engaging and informative when showing history was more than names and dates. The English department was also quite good. The joy of learning was passed on by some exceptional teachers at Evergreen High School. I'd like to think our class had a little more shine on it as a result.

Chuck
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FrankChurch
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:19 pm

I used to ride a yellow sillybus when I was in school.

---------

Van Gogh sure in the hell challenges me. You certainly want to know what he was thinking when he was painting. Is his self portrait him at his best or his worse? Only the bird on the wire can tell us.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Lori Koonce » Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:33 pm

Tom C wrote:
Lori Koonce wrote:What good is any art, visual or otherwise, if it's not challenging you?


I dunno. I love Van Gogh's work but I cant say I find it challenging. Can’t we appreciate art without it being challenging?


I suppose you could Tom, but why would you want to? I look at the mundane at every moment of my life. If I'm gonna spend money to look at or read something, at least let it be challenging at some level.

As the acronyms go, JMHO YMMV.


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