THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Thu Nov 29, 2012 5:13 pm

FrankChurch wrote: I remember calling Michael Medved and he had on Ann Coulter and I used Harlan's line about her being like Isla Koch. Ann was tongue tied, oddly.


Probably trying to figure out if it was an insult or a compliment...
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:11 am

Rob, a right wing talk show host, right wing. Call Medved.

Too bad I can't call Alan Nathan--he doesnt' do calls. He is really vicious.

-------------

My diss of Canada is not directed at Steve Evil.

Or Molson.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:27 am

Well, Frank, let me be frank:

Frankly, my trepidation in the prospect of hearing you on a right-wing show OR a left is that I would feel equally embarrassed for you and BY you. In both camps, you misstate facts, over-generalize, and try vainly to be glib. I generally cringe when you speak in behalf of left-wing viewpoints.

Having delivered that compliment, even I have to agree I probably would NOT make it past screeners on a right-wing show, and if I did, the host would disconnect me within 16 seconds of the time delay. I'm giving you THAT because several times I imagined trying it. I revile them too much - the Coulters, the Medveds, the Limbaughs. I'd never be able to maintain my pretext of civility.

So, I chose not to try that experiment. They and their lizard-brain audiences are unreachable. It would be a waste of time.

I called Randi many times, not just because I got to air my opinions but because she engages callers when they have personal stories. I had a couple of conversations with her, which I found more personally rewarding than just coming on like a glib know-nothing.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:04 pm

I always back my stuff up with facts and evidence, blah blah.

Siding with mostly pro-Israel sources is worse than glib, it's called subterfuge.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:35 pm

FrankChurch wrote:I always back my stuff up with facts and evidence, blah blah.


Not to be picayune, Frank, but what you actually do is provide links to other people who claim to be backed up with facts and evidence -- and they themselves reference other sources in the process.

I honestly don't remember a single instance of an extended point by point breakdown of your own thinking on a subject. We have gotten a lot of what other people think on the subject based on data that is not itself in evidence, or citing resources as biased and questionable as is Fox News tends to be for the Right. (Any time a Conservative uses Fox as a resource I remind them I don't regard Fox as reliable. The same has to be said for the Fox equivalents on the far Left.) But very little "Frank" commentary and logical breakdowns. Three and four sentence posts aren't chock full of the sort of detailed analyses that would merit "backing yourself up with facts and evidence" -- links are tools, not arguments in and of themselves.

I really am not trying to be dismissive, but when you assert that you "always" back yourself up "with facts and evidence" it needs to be called out as not quite correct.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:56 pm

FrankChurch wrote: -------------

My diss of Canada is not directed at Steve Evil.



And which diss might that be? :?

Dude, you've never backed up anything you've ever said. All you do is take someone else's work, slam it down on the table, and shout "There! End of story!" Then you change the subject.

You rarely even summarize what the article says, other than it somehow supports your position. Half the time the article is utterly biased, the other half it doesn't actually say what you claim it says.

You never develop an argument of your own, beyond blanket statements. "This is right, this is wrong, what don't you get?" (And you never follow it up when people tell you what they don't get.)

You never answer questions (Fifth time: what made the Tokyo trials a "monstrosity"?), and just as importantly, rarely ask any of your own (rhetorical questions don't count).

You don't show any evidence of even trying to understand anyone else's perspective, and rarely show any respect for someone else's view. Even when they agree with you (which is probably more often than you think), you tend to be condescending. People get tired of that Frank. Why not drop the court jester schtick for a while and just interact with us like an adult?

And Molson stinks.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:11 pm

Steve Evil wrote:


And which diss might that be? :?

[/quote]

Nevermind, just saw it. Entirely deserved. :(

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Dec 01, 2012 9:11 am


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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sat Dec 01, 2012 1:07 pm

You could say 9/11 truthers are the Fox news equivilent on the left or the astounding truth behind the Bilderberg meetings or the JFK guff, but my sources tend to be well respected, not just on the left, but elsewhere. As I have said before the left is within the mainstream of American enlightenment principles, while the right is way outside, a vast difference.

As Kuznick himself said, a whole host of fact checkers vetted his world war 2 info. Fox news has none of these. The difference between peer review and your cousin who spouts off at Thanksgiving.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Douglas Harrison » Sat Dec 01, 2012 3:49 pm

Mark Tiedemann wrote:http://marktiedemann.com/wordpress/?p=1628

I bookmarked ya.

D.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:59 pm

Shop local this year guys. You help the independent economy and keep money in your own community. Avoiding buying anything made in a sweatshop is another worthwhile pursuit. Cultural imperialism is yours to dismantle.

A McDonalds in France or a Taco Bell in China is just wrong. The asian food courts they have there, better idea. Thankfully we have our mexican brothers to show you California peeps what tacos should taste like.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:39 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Shop local this year guys. You help the independent economy and keep money in your own community. Avoiding buying anything made in a sweatshop is another worthwhile pursuit. Cultural imperialism is yours to dismantle.

A McDonalds in France or a Taco Bell in China is just wrong. The asian food courts they have there, better idea. Thankfully we have our mexican brothers to show you California peeps what tacos should taste like.



Don't like Mexican food. Just don't. Never have. Which sucks, because after having one Bosnian restaurant after another open in my neighborhood, finally something different within walking distance, and it's---Mexican.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:40 pm

FrankChurch wrote: but my sources tend to be well respected .


But your arguments are not.

Kuznick is wrong. Sorry to burst your bubble, but he' s wrong. A professor can be as wrong as anybody; in fact, academia nowadays is often an echo chambre for ideas that don't have to be tested in the real world.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:44 pm

academia nowadays is often an echo chambre for ideas that don't have to be tested in the real world.


Remember Chaos by James Gleick? Impactful passages in there about this sort of static cycle phenomenon.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:46 pm

Hating Mexican food:

I don't hate it, but I have to be in the mood for it.


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