THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sat Aug 17, 2013 6:54 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Barber, be lucky you are not forced, because of your job, to move to Dayton Ohio or some such awful burg. lol.


Preach. :wink:

I am certain that there are many redeeming features of Dayton and other "burgs", both in Ohio and in other parts of the country. Some very good friends of ours are genuinely considering a move to Indiana. And these are well-traveled, well-heeled people. I do not begrudge the lifestyles and worlds of the Midwest. It's not our kind of living, but is perfect for so many other folk. Living in California isn't for everybody either (though the tremendous differences between regions gives people here a huge number of options).

I should note that Cris and I are in the process of falling in love with Santa Fe and other parts of New Mexico. A lot of people would deplore a move to "the desert".
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby diane bartels » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:41 pm

A friend of mine just took another trip to Santa Fe. She loves it.

Steve, before you settle anywheres else, check out Chitown. There is no where else like it. (I have even been all the way to Madison.)

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sat Aug 17, 2013 9:42 pm

We've been through New Mexico. A lot of SF writers live there and I can see why---vast tracts of it look like Mars. Only you can breathe.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sun Aug 18, 2013 6:50 am

Mark Tiedemann wrote:We've been through New Mexico. A lot of SF writers live there and I can see why---vast tracts of it look like Mars. Only you can breathe.


Very well put. There is a variety of rock there, volcanic in origin I believe, that is rife with holes. Literally Swiss cheese in its effect.

It's truly a staggering landscape.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FinderDoug » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:49 am

Barber,

You, sir, are a Yankee philistine.

With love,
The City of Houston

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:09 am

FinderDoug wrote:You, sir, are a Yankee philistine.

With love,
The City of Houston


My work here is done.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:39 pm

Arizona is even worse. The desert is where you bury bodies, it is not where one lives.

Las Vegas, only for the gambling and free beer, then you leave fast.

Indiana I like. North Carolina, Virginia, could be nice to live in. I have to remain in places that are cheap. I love Cali but can't manage the shitty high rents.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Aug 18, 2013 12:44 pm

Barber was proven right on the hysteria over drugs. The big story is the SWAT raid on an organic farm:

http://www.alternet.org/activism/police ... -team-raid.

No drugs, as is usual. I bet they did have ambien. Much worse.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Sun Aug 18, 2013 1:45 pm

See, that's one thing about Harlan that does get to me--his mention of Ian Fleming using a certain cigarette brand instead of just saying "Bond smoked a cigarette." I can see if it helped the plot but why mention a certain brand of suitcase, who cares?

"The murderer slowly put on his Atlas Gloves and then went for his knife." Just say gloves, you don't need to mention they are Atlas gloves.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FinderDoug » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:24 pm

It useful in conveying aspects of character without having to say "He was wealthy" or "She had discriminating tastes" or "He was cheap."

For example:
"He pulled on a pair of sneakers." - He wears sneakers.
"He pulled on a pair of Converse." - He's trendy, or a hipster; add a "worn" and he's someone who wears something until it falls apart - maybe thrifty, maybe poor, maybe nostalgic.
"He pulled on a pair of Givenchy." - He's got thousand-dollar sneakers. He's either trying to impress someone, or he has a shitload of disposable income to blow on footwear.

"She poured a glass of champagne." - She drinks.
"She poured a glass of Korbel." - She drinks low-end champagne; maybe she doesn't know good champagne; maybe she can only afford Korbel.
"She poured a glass of Billecart-Salmon." - She drinks a very good champagne that falls outside the typical name-dropped champagnes, suggesting she has a more advanced knowledge of the champagne landscape.
"She poured a glass of Cristal." - She probably dates the jackass that paid a thousand dollars for Givenchy.

A specification gives insight into the character; it can add richness to both the storytelling landscape and to the reader's association with the character. Do we gain more insight into Bond if:

- he orders a martini, plays some cards, and gets into his car; or if

- he orders a martini made with three measures Gordon's, one measure vodka, half of Kina Lillet, shaken over ice with a thin slice of lemon peel; plays a half-dozen hands of baccarat; and gets into his Aston Martin DB Mark III?

If your killer is wearing "gloves" then you imply very little about the killer. But the Atlas glove is versatile and ergonomic; their Nitrile 350 is great for working in oily conditions. If the killer is wearing Atlas gloves, it sounds like they know they're going to get one decent shot at the cut, and they're prepared for serious wet-work afterwards (so not just a killer wearing gloves, but a serious mofo who's planning on getting their hands dirty.)

And so on.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:20 am

Doug, that made plenty of sense. And you didn't have to use vitriol. Love you for that. Yea, don't look away, I lurves you.

--------

Who was the guy asking Harlan that dumb question?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:11 pm

Barber, a question 4 u--in a prince mood--do you think Gore Vidal was anti-American?

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:23 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Barber, a question 4 u--in a prince mood--do you think Gore Vidal was anti-American?


Never considered the question before. In what way?
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:50 pm

Finderdoug, woo hoo...

That gentleman from Foreign Policy magazine emailed me on the Chomsky, CIA business. Here's his answer:

"First, the CIA made this written request to the FBI, requiring the creation of a file. Second, the basis for this request was information CIA officers had learned about Chomsky and others, the catalyst to this request. Third, the memo lists the names of specific individuals, and the FBI, in its report, would provide all information it had on the listed individuals (which included Chomsky). Both the CIA and the FBI collected information on individuals of interest at the time and the 1970 memo confirms the Agency’s interest in Chomsky. Last, the FBI and the CIA in the 1960s/1970s had an informal liaison program wherein they shared information—thus this CIA request.

Let me provide a specific citation to the FBI-CIA liaison program that I referenced. Initiated in 1966 to effect better “coordination,” the program was intended to delineate CIA and FBI responsibilities: for the CIA external for the FBI internal. The discussion of this informal liaison program is in the Church Committee’s 1976 reports: pp. 519-521 of Book III and pp. 97-99 of Book II. I discuss this relationship on pp. 183-184 of my book The Quest for Absolute Security, if you have better access to the book rather than the Church Committee reports.

One further point. As you perhaps know, in 1967 the CIA initiated Operation CHAOS under which it’s officers infiltrated, and monitored, domestic anti-war and civil rights organizations. The program was not known to the FBI. This makes the 1970 memo of particular interest as the CIA, through this program, would have become aware of the activities and plans of anti-war activists such as Chomsky and Meacham, for example—thus the specificity of this 1970 memo to the FBI on the plans of these individuals. It appears that one basis for this 1970 CIA request was to obtain information about these individuals to supplement the Agency’s monitoring activities. As the request was posed in the guise of an interest in the international travel plans of the individuals, the request would seem legitimate and, also, would mask the fact that CIA officers were currently involved in domestic surveillance (without the FBI’s knowledge and inconsistent with the 1966 liaison program)

Lastly, here's a statement I received from Archives, regarding whether the CIA contacted it before destroying Chomsky's file.

"No, NARA does not have a record of the CIA reporting to NARA the destruction of records concerning Noam Chomsky.""

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:52 pm

Lori, the Whitey Bulger stuff came from Morning Joe. Mike Barnicle does know a thing or three about Boston. Not much else he knows but we have to deal with his limits.


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