Spill yer guts.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Moderator » Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:18 am

paul wrote:I thought these were editable? Maybe I was hallucinating.
Anyway,
1) It was supposed to read Also "and" sounds better than "an". Good call.


Nah, ya just gotta have the right "je ne sais quoi".

Done and done. Not as a regular thing, but I don't mind editing 'pon occasion.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby paul » Sat Mar 16, 2013 8:20 am

Aw, you didn't haveta do that. But thanks.

No, it was strange. Everything was perfectly normal, then after posting, the entire website changed into some new updated look. But not now, as I'm looking at it.
I can navigate the netstream with suave surety, but I'll never figure out why web pages do what they do.

Thanks, Steve.
The medium is the message.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Lori Koonce » Sat Mar 16, 2013 12:34 pm

Paul

Just saw your question and will try to be honest with my answer.

When I was in my teens and twenties I was never too far from a notebook and pen. I was either journaling or writing a poem. Now not so much. The one you read just hit me like a brick dropped from a multiple storried building.

While I find myself thinking in poem like things, now I don't bother to write them down anymore.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Lori Koonce » Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:53 pm

For Vance

I thought I was strong enough to keep your problems
From causing some of my own
But I was totally and utterly wrong
By being a good friend for you
I've quit being one for myself
Which is not acceptable
But right now
Walking away isn't an option either
So please know
That I am really working hard
To figure out something that
Will work for the two of us

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Rick Keeney » Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:27 pm

I'dn't been paying attention to this thread. Wow.

Feedback. Not of the Deep Purple type nuther. More like Low.

Better get on the ball, no.

Thanks for reading.

There's suddenly a lot to read here. I'll get to it. I'm reading for a literary journal and am stretched. And the fact that my raggedy-ass copy of HOUSE OF LEAVES has taken to calling my name again is of no relative benefit.

peace at least,
Rick

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Rick Keeney » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:57 pm

There is a lot to work through here. I'll need to simplify.

I don't think I'll comment on work that is clearly therapeutic. I think there is tremendous value and potential for catharsis in that kind of exercise. I also think such work is above (or outside) of critical comment.

I'll respond to work that I assume is being groomed for submission, or has already been submitted. If I do comment on your work (and don't be disgusted if I don't; there's probably not a good reason for it, probably no reason for it at all), if I do, then know that I thought about it for a while. And if I come off as disjointed, or if I miss the point entirely, that's simply as good as it's going to get with me.

If you comment on my work, in most cases I will thank you. That's all. I think that works best. I've seen workshops work well that way. You can do what you want with the critiques you receive. Just know that I'm not interested in what you think about what I think about what you wrote.

I'll be as honest as possible in my evaluations, but I tend away from the brutal honesty. I'll tell you that I have already fallen, or will fall, into every single trap and make every single mistake (including spelling errors-which HORRIFY me) that I will ever find in your work.

I am not a better writer than you. So I don't know how valuable my input will be to you. In most cases, you'll benefit most from my silence. I've been published twice. Only two times. I won a literary prize for poetry from my university's arts and literary magazine for a poem you'll never read titled "Heart of Trees." And I interviewed Stephen Graham Jones www.demontheory.net for Cemetery Dance Magazine a few years ago. I forget the year and month. I know it was the Charles Grant memorial issue; cool cover, cool mag. That said, take my critique with a shot of the Irish amber.

I don’t read much poetry. It confuses me. And poetry readings make me hate the stuff. (Why do poets read their poems in that weird sonorous tone?) But it’s the only form of writing that seems to make sense for me right now-as a writer, I mean. When I do read poetry, it’s Sexton, and Blake, and cummings, Elizabeth Bishop, Berryman, Frost, Whitman, Neruda, Pound, Li Young Lee, Rumi, Merwin, Dickey, Russell Edson, Roethke, Rilke, Yeats, Gary Snyder, Robinson Jeffers, Ray Young Bear-others.

I do take the commonest advice to writers: I readreadreadreadreadread everything I get my hands on. Right now: Thor. Yeah, Goldilocks.

I think the “Needle” poem needed about four more drafts in order to distance it from the overtones that weaken it. But it was time for it to go away. Someone else needed to look at it. FInally.

I don’t have a theory for this stuff, not anything that would help anyone. I’m too busily enmeshed within my own brand of chaos to try to help you figure out where yours comes from.

And that all ends up sounding like a load. Doesn’t it?

It does.

peace at least

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Rick Keeney » Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:59 pm

I like this the best of any line I've read here so far:

"While I find myself thinking in poem like things, now I don't bother to write them down anymore." -Lori Koonce

Needs one edit, but it's otherwise vital. To me.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:09 pm

Rick Keeney wrote:I like this the best of any line I've read here so far:

"While I find myself thinking in poem like things, now I don't bother to write them down anymore." -Lori Koonce

Needs one edit, but it's otherwise vital. To me.


Edit away Mr. Keeney. If my prose ever gets to the standards I meet with poetry I'll be a bit closer to actually feeling comfortable with considering myself a writer with some potential.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:03 pm

nice place
fine tone
i'll try to offer something
very nice
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:23 pm

Oh, while I'm thinkin about it...


Rick Keeney

Please comment on anything I put up here.....

One of the reasons I write 'em the way I do is so I can look at the feedback as way to not only improve my writing but also the situation that caused it in the first place.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Rick Keeney » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:28 pm

Here's a challenge. We've all got a favorite gutter poet/writer, or at least one who never hesitates to use the strongest language possible to express herself. Take a closer read and see how (and how often) she uses profanity. Not saying we ned to have breath like the Rose of Sharon here. Saying rough/coarse language is a specialized tool, similar to that itty bitty screw driver you can never find when you need it, or that weird funky-ass battery that you have to buy three of, and then can never find them the NEXT time the camera needs one. I think young writers misinterpret writers like Harlan and Charles Bukowski pretty regularly. Common people in shoddy circumstance do not necessarily behave in a way one might expect, and their stories can be told with the most beautiful language imaginable. Bukowski wrote some enduring and profound poetry. It wasn't all a fuckstorm; very little of it was. If you feel motivated to imitate, then look closer; observe more specifically, and be true to the muse.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Rick Keeney » Thu Mar 21, 2013 9:29 pm

Lori, I think your work is doing exactly what it needs to do.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Tim Raven » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:22 am

Paul – you are a yeoman! Your detailed response was really cool to read, and I thank you for the attention. I have to admit, no one except for one close friend back in Maryland has ever spent so much time reading my poetry.

I’m still mulling the work that you offered; I found it very engaging and I’ll post my thoughts soon.

Rick – glad to hear from you! Your philosophy towards critique seems prudent to me, I think we can all benefit from your example.

Thanks guys!
Tim

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Tim Raven » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:25 am

we cuss like sailors

must we dwell on the mistakes of our youth?
no
that person is long gone
we are a coral reef.

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Re: Spill yer guts.

Postby Tim Raven » Fri Mar 22, 2013 1:27 am

I’m screwed up in the morning

I drink heavily and look at my dog
My left leg is bent on the couch, my flannel thigh laid down
And her body is connected to it
warm and close
She smells like a frito
She sleeps and I watch her.
I recall how this morning I wanted to slip away and split
I’m certain she would miss me
So I’ll do this again tomorrow
just one more time.

Tim Raven


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