Robert Nason's Culture Café

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Sun Jul 20, 2014 5:07 pm

Mark Tiedemann wrote:
FrankChurch wrote:I wanted to ask our Mark how many rejection slips he got for his first work?


I have no idea. I'd have to unearth the files from the rafters of the garage, but suffice to say that the cliche "I could wallpaper my house with rejection slips" is not a cliche.


Been thinking about this since I first answered the question. I would estimate that my first 20 or 30 short stories gathered about 15 to 25 rejections each before I finally sold one of them. Prior to Clarion, in 1988, I wrote and submitted maybe 40 or 50 short stories, of which 3 sold, all to very small, low-paying markets. So I have from those days may 45 or 46 stories that never sold but made the rounds of what markets there were then. So for the first six years of my attempt to be a published writer I collected between 700 and a 1000 rejection slips.

I have since collected many more.

Does that help?

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Robert Nason
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:39 pm

robochrist wrote:Robert, whatever world or reality you live in, you are known to frame arguments through the worst case of bullshit tunnel vision I've ever seen. You cherry pick then take that handful and apply it to the norm. No: Conspiracy freaks do not "overlap" with the left as much as you've convinced yourself in your vacuum-sealed bubble. In fact, in my experience, it's right-wingers who think the government set it up. Libertarian types to be specific. I could confidently content that the majority of 9/11 conspiracy buffs, known as "Truthers", are predominanty Libertarian.

Rob, I'm fully aware that not everyone, or even most, on the left is a conspiracy nut, It's just that I run into so many here in New York! Especially the Upper West Side, which I sometimes think should be renamed the Upper West Gaz Strip. Yes, there are conspiracy nuts among all political persuasions, but the Bush years generated a huge new, fetid crop of them. Just the other day a Columbia grad student was yapping in my year nonstop about how 9/11 was completely masterminded by Dick Cheney, without even Bush's knowledge, and that nobody knew all the details but him -- i.e, the grad student. And this is Columbia. And this guy's considered to be brilliant in his field. (Which, thank god for all of us, is physics, not political science.)

re you certain, first of all, that you quoted the people you listed IN CONTEXT? Although, no question, there IS an Islamist threat, the U.S. effectively produced that threat over a course of decades through blowback. Policies in the Middle East, puppet governments like the Shaw, and, of course, the CIA training Bin Laden throughout the 1980s as it did with Hussein and Panama's Noriega. The United States has a history of creating a toxic seedbed of discontent. Are you sure none of the people you listed weren't trying to make this point? Lots of lefties DO; MOST, actually.

In context? I read their entire damned books! But if I quoted them at that length here, I'd be accused of mere "cutting-and-pasting." I read Chomsky's dreadful (bestselling) book "9-11," and I read all the articles in The Nation, and Howard Zinn's book on terror, and Mailer's "Why Are We in Iraq?" and Vidal's "Perpetual War for Perpetual Peace." HAVE YOU??

Essentially, what you're saying --- to put the nicest construction on it -- is that America "had it coming." Since you -- and the virtually the entire left -- believes that America is responsible for absolutely everything that has been bad in the world for the past 100 years (at least), any attack on us from anywhere in the world is justified. And the last Gore Vidal, in his last novel, claimed that America "had it coming" when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor. We deserved it, according to him. And like a true conspiracy nut, he also claimed that FDR not only knew about it in advance, but provoked the Japanese to make them do it. This is "truther" crap all over again. The left wept buckets of tears when Vidal passed away a few years ago; that's appropriate for someone who's died. But they also acclaimed him as "a great voice of truth and reason" in our mendacious, right-wing-dominated cultural landscape. Sorry, but I beg to differ.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Robert Nason
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jul 20, 2014 7:41 pm

Lori Koonce wrote:Robert

A question for you How would you classify a guy who lives by the idea that both compassion and toughness can and must reside within the same person? What about one who is willing to pay very high taxes if you can prove to him how it will benefit himself and his family. I haven't got a clue what you consider him, but I do know he considers himself a very red republican. I just call him dad and leave it at that.

IMO, Left, Right and Center are just easy ways to put those we disagree with in boxes. Once we do that the responsibility to try and understand another POV is greatly diminished if not removed entirely. It is a shame. That so many of us are willing to loose out on chances to learn.

Your dad sounds like a nice guy.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Robert Nason
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jul 20, 2014 8:11 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Nason needs to read the book on right wing populism by Chip Berlet, one of those experts I like. He shows the history of severe racism shown by right wing groups over the years. Anti-Chinese policy, anti-Italian, anti-Irish, anti--Jewish! Now you have the issues with Hispanics where right wingers are saying the wetbacks are bringing in diseases and crime and evil, you know, like, those doe-eyed kids just ooze evil.

You're talking about a right-wing that has nothing to do with my Jewish and Irish and iralian friends of my generation, who all came from liberal backgrounds and then had "second thoughts" after years of indoctrination by liberal teachers and professors. Most of them discovered conservatism on their own, via the neoconservative movement, which from the start accepted the reforms of the New Deal, some of the Great Society but with resevations about certain programs, and so on. You have a cartoon image of a conservative that you argue with incessantly, and it will only make you look like a fool to people living here and now who are conservative and not racist, not anti-Semitic, not anti-Italiian, etc., etc. Try reading a good, solid history of the conservative movement, and learn what the people really think. George Nash's history is a good place to start.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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robochrist
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby robochrist » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:03 pm

You're talking about a right-wing that has nothing to do with my Jewish and Irish and iralian friends of my generation, who all came from liberal backgrounds and then had "second thoughts" after years of indoctrination by liberal teachers and professors


And what sort of economic system, Robert, do you really think is the ideal working solution? For someone who thinks "homeless" simply means "apartment-less", I can only imagine how little interest, concern, or empathy you have for people impoverished or on the street for whatever the many reasons that might be. In short, by your observation either these people are few in numbers or they deserve to be where they are. Who cares if they die off? Who cares if they suffer? Thus, Progressives are hypocrites and government should be limited to its most basic funtions...and so you have your "second thoughts", LITTLE as they may be in the enclosure of your reality bubble! This indoctrination into Neoconservatism sounds more like the Hour of 13!

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Robert Nason
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:23 pm

From this point on, I will refuse to engage in political discussions in my cafe. Everyone else is free to continue them here if they wish. Or they can stroll down the street to Frank Church's News Coroner if they find the offerings there more to their liking. I'm sticking to culture.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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robochrist
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby robochrist » Sun Jul 20, 2014 10:52 pm

Just keep in mind YOU got the ball rolling on this last round! You bring to mind a quote from Henry Fonda in 12 ANGRY MEN: "He can't hear you. He never will". The essence of Conservatism. Nuff said.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:20 pm

I always thought Edmund Burke was the essence of conservstism, not a some character in a movie, but I guess we all get educated in our own ways.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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Chuck Messer
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Chuck Messer » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:22 pm

This is starting to get personal, guys. I humbly suggest we re-set and talk culture.

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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Robert Nason
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Robert Nason » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:46 pm

Thank you, Chuck. Let's take a moment (and a lotta pixels) to pay tribute to ERNEST HEMINGWAY, one of the greatest short story writers in English or any other language. Bravo, Papa!

Image
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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robochrist
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby robochrist » Sun Jul 20, 2014 11:48 pm

You're right, Chuck. I frankly took some of Robert's comments personally, and I'm not good at dealing with it when I feel that way. Yet, it's definitely my own responsibility to learn HOW, and I just posted apologia in Frank's niche.

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robochrist
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby robochrist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:04 am

Image

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Robert Nason
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Robert Nason » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:17 am

Robo, thanks for posting the pic. Now we know what you actually look like.
"Thought is a strenuous art -- few practice it, and then only at rare times." - David Ben-Gurion

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robochrist
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby robochrist » Mon Jul 21, 2014 1:21 am

No, that's just my mouth - Photoshopped onto Lee J. Cobb's face!

Mark Tiedemann
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Re: Robert Nason's Culture Café

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Mon Jul 21, 2014 7:27 am

Um...I have an opinion on the tirade just passed, but I'm taking it over to Frank's corner per Robert's (quite legitimate) request and copying this line to indicate the response---


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