Pavilion Digest: June 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Out to Roger

Postby remarck » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:55 am

Name: Keith Cramer
Source: unca20060807.htm

I'm sorry for your loss. I'm going through something similar right now with a friend. If you need to talk, you've got my info. Take it one day at a time.


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James Hogan

Postby Adam-Troy » Thu Jun 29, 2006 3:10 am

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20060807.htm
James Hogan's love of holocaust revisionism is old news. He passed a brief remark of the sort to me, when he was Guest of Honor at a local science fiction convention, a number of years ago. I confess I blipped over it, my mind refusing to accept what I had heard as accurate, but that very weekend he had dinner with the organizers of the convention and elaborated -- this in front of a woman whose parents went to a camp and who has had to deal with their emotional issues for her entire life.

I have not, knowingly, ever read of Hogan's fiction. I don't know what I'd think of it. But before that weekend this was just becsause it's impossible to read everybody. Following that weekend it'e because I have no interest in anything he writes.

Kelly Brown

Jim Baen

Postby Kelly Brown » Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:10 am

Name: Kelly Brown
Source: unca20060807.htm
Jim Baen passed away peacefully last night at 5pm, without ever regaining consciousness from his stroke.

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Alex Jay Berman
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Postby Alex Jay Berman » Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:38 am

Name: Alex jay berman
Source: unca20060807.htm
REGARDING JIM BAEN: Aw, shit. However expected it may have been, that's still a damned shame.

ADAM-TROY: And that is why I sometimes have trouble with the idea of separating the Art from the Artist. Sure, I can read Celine or Mencken, but that is nicely divorced from the immediacy of realtime by the softening years in-between. And I am actually of the belief that--unless they are found to be inciting violence against others--that even Holocaust deniers should not be arrested for their beliefs. Free Speech is very important to me; and it should be preserved, even the disgusting shit.
But having seen on Hogan's own page that he believes the deniers to be right, I would be certain never to read Hogan's work.

ROGER: I'm deeply sorry for your loss. It's good to see that you are at least relieved she's no longer in pain--but I know too well how those words can turn to ashes in a mourner's mouth. Do your best to remember the good times and reflect on the luck you had to have her in your life, even for too too short a time.

DREAM CORRIDOR: It'll be ordered as soon as I hit the comic store.

Ran across a perfect quote the other day: "Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy."--Justice Louis D. Brandeis

Definitely apropos.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:13 am

Source: unca20060807.htm
ROGER: Susan's and my condolences, old friend.

ADAM: I couldn't believe it when first I learned of it, but yes, as one with you, he is in Coventry as far as I'm concerned.

JIM BAEN: Terrible news. I'm coming to it late, but, well, rest in peace, Jim.




Postby Peter » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:36 am

Name: Peter
Source: unca20060807.htm
Apparently, from what I've read, Hogan tries to distinguish between "revisionists" and "deniers." He claims to belong to the former. The Nizkor Project makes short shrift of this semantical ploy:

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If You Like Rare Recordings.....

Postby Duane » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:50 am

Name: Duane
Source: unca20060807.htm
.... then this is as rare as it gets:

In the process of turning a vase in ancient Pompeii, the potter actually (and unknowingly) recorded his voice and the voices of others in his shop onto the vase itself. French scientists were able to digitally record the grooves created when the vase was turned and play them back. What you hear are human voices from nearly 2000 years in the past.

Check it out at and click on "telecharger la video."

Jeff R. in San Diego

Postby Jeff R. in San Diego » Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:02 am

Name: Jeff R. in San Diego
Source: unca20060807.htm
Duane, that's been exposed as a hoax; an April Foool's joke.

Todd Cassel
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James P Hogan Wastes Seven Bucks !

Postby Todd Cassel » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:05 am

Name: Todd Cassel
Source: unca20060807.htm
Damn, I wish this Hogan discussion had come up last week. I purchased the paperback edition of his non-fiction book, Kicking The Sacred Cow, just 4 days ago. If you haven't heard of this book, it concerns Hogan's questioning of a variety of scientific statements and assumptions. The cover copy looked interesting, so I bought it.

Of course, now that I know he questions the Holocaust, why would I care about what else he questions?

Money down the drain, unless I get Borders to accept a return without receipt.


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I'm so proud

Postby Moderator » Thu Jun 29, 2006 10:43 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20060807.htm
Way off topic, and likely of no interest to anyone but me, but my most recent submission to is currently number 7 on "Most Controversial" shots ever posted (we're talking literally thousands over the years).

After a short stay at #1.

Roughly half of the nastier notes and votes have now been withdrawn (hence the lowering to number 7), but ... *sniff* ... for a moment there I *was* somebody.

Duane - Don't feel bad, I understand the speaking voices were drowned out by the television set.

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Postby rich » Thu Jun 29, 2006 11:21 am

Name: rich
Source: unca20060807.htm
And you call yourself our moderator.

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General Welfare, Indeed.

Postby paul » Thu Jun 29, 2006 12:02 pm

Name: Paul
Source: unca20060807.htm
Steve, that's a vivid, provocative shot, but i have a crazy question. Have you had this shot up on any other sites recently, or just photosig? I could swear i saw this very picture within the last week somewhere else, The Bonfire Of The Liberties, maybe. My brain is probably overheated something fierce, but i was just wondering. It's that 'i can't shake that feeling' feeling. Like wicked deja` vu. I'm probably wrong, but i hadda ask. Also, did you chose the BACK of the flag as opposed to the front for particular emphasis? The smoldering away of the laws controlling governmental power, going on "behind the nation's back" as it were? Just curious.
Very nice, sir.

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Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:33 pm

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20060807.htm
Barber, there goes your mainstream progressive tint. I gladly will admit you into the Frank Church funhouse. Now stay consistant on some other stuff and we can be squared, concentric.

Course, if it was me, I'd show Bush pissing on the embers.


Gotta love what the Supreme Court did today. Judicial activism went haywire in the right direction.


Postby Roger » Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:28 pm

Name: Roger
Source: unca20060807.htm
Thank you all for the kind thoughts. I just got home from the visitation a little while ago. I do not think I've ever seen such a huge group of people at a visitation all at the same time. I can imagine how many will be at the funeral tomorrow. Janet was a much loved lady and a dear friend of mine. Thanks again. Roger

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Chuck Messer
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Postby Chuck Messer » Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:12 pm

Name: Chuck Messer
Source: unca20060807.htm

Goddamn. I resisted the temptation to violate the 24-hour rule and waited until today to post my condolences. There is no worse feeling than seeing one of your nearest and dearest suffer and you're helpless to do anything. It's the weakest sort of consolation that her suffering is over, but at least there is that, and the others you hold dear. Keep them close and remember how lucky you still are. I think Janet would want that.


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