Pavilion Digest: June 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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John Nitiss

Postby John Nitiss » Thu Jun 29, 2006 5:29 pm

Name: John Nitiss
Source: unca20060807.htm
I read the comments about James Hogan by several posters, and thought I would look into some of the ("non-fiction") he has written. My take - while I am a strong proponent of letting all points of view being exposed to the sun, there is equally an obligation to point out notions that are wrong, dangerous, and heading toward evil. Holocaust denying is in the third category, of course.
But so is denying that the HIV virus is the cause of AIDS, a point of view espoused in "Kicking the Sacred Cow"
On his comments about evolution and intelligent design, I would be tempted to classify them as simply wrong, but as a working biologist and one interested in discovering new treatments for diseases, I find perpetrating ignorance in biology at least as dangerous.
I would go on about his views on global warming and Velikovsky, but I have used up my share of space.
My punch line: question "conventional scientific wisdom? Of course. But just because someone is questioning conventional wisdom doesn't mean that they have anything useful to offer to us.

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On Hogan

Postby KristinRuhle » Thu Jun 29, 2006 6:20 pm

Name: Kristin A Ruhle
Source: unca20060807.htm
I haven't seen the book, but any Holocaust denier is a pure crank and so there.

Global warming "skepticism" (translation: refusal to believe in science that threatens certain economic interests) is crackpot too but MUCH more dangerous. Among scientists these people are a fringe, but they have BIG MONEY behind them. Also, those who say "they must all be wrong and my pals are right" simply don't understand how science is done. They have romantic views about "contrarianism" or being "maverick" that are better suited to art than science. Science is fundamentally a group effort and conclusions are arrived at through MANY experimenters VERIFYING results until the evidence becomes overwhelming.

R.I.P. Jim Baen - he sadly died far too soon.
Oh, Roger. I haven't been on in two days - I am so sorry for your loss.


Edward King

Even A Broken Clock Is Right Twice A Day!!

Postby Edward King » Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:14 pm

Name: Edward King
Source: unca20060807.htm
I confess my moments of genius are few and far between, but I'd like to share the following:
Amoungst all the crap that wastes my time and ruins relationships I've a love of pre-1960 cars and m/c's and it was at a antique car show in Springfield that the following exchange went down ( as an aside most of the folks in the hobby are great to be around and a pleasure to know:) Dummy was running his mouth about the Jew conspiracy, blah, blah, blah and there ain't no way six million Jews done got turned into mulch, etc., etc. and I casually chimed in that I agreed that it wasn't six million Jews that were murdered, but more to the tune of twelve million folks, 'cause ya gotta throw in a few more for the fags, niggahs, retards, gyps and whomever didn't make the Aryan cut and, by the by ( at this point my girlfriend was stifling her laughter, because she knew that this my "wind-up") let's say the Jews were playing fast and loose with numbers and that it was really "only" a 100,000; was it any less wrong? Dummy just stood there looking like I just whipped out my cock and shook it at him. I don't think I made any friends that day. Ah, well... Two Klansmen were on their way to a meetin' and , upon leaving the house, one Klansman turns to the other and says, "Don't you just love it when the sheets come right out of the dryer?"

Brian Phillips
Posts: 85
Joined: Tue Jan 20, 2009 2:07 am

For those who like Django Reinhardt

Postby Brian Phillips » Thu Jun 29, 2006 8:14 pm

Name: Brian Phillips
Source: unca20060807.htm
Thanks very much for the post of the Django Reinhardt clip. I had no idea there was moving footage of him.

For those who are fond of Reinhardt, you may wish to listen to Birelli Lagrene. He began recording at the age of 13. He did and can play in the Reinhardt style as well as others.

Also, all footage of Reinhardt can now be purchased on DVD, from "Music on Earth". It's on "Stphane Grappelli: A Life in the Jazz Century". It's a three-DVD set and Reinhardt footage is rare, so there isn't much of it, but if you enjoy his music, you may wish to order this.

I would also like to mention Oscar Aleman, an Argentinian guitarist who was a contemporary of Reinhardt's.

Rob Ewen
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Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 11:10 am
Location: Harrow, UK

Tangoland & UK Books

Postby Rob Ewen » Fri Jun 30, 2006 12:53 am

Name: Rob Ewen
Source: unca20060807.htm
Any animation/cat/big band lovers out there should take a look at the intro to animator Cynthia Petrovic's Tangoland website (soundcard desireable but not essential):

Rather nifty!

PS - Harlan, if Barney has no luck finding your book in the UK, let me know - my 'window of opportunity' is somewhat wider...


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Site Admin
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Used Books and Ellisonia

Postby Moderator » Fri Jun 30, 2006 6:13 am

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20060807.htm
I've had occasion over the last few weeks to haunt some used book stores and have noticed something: Ellison books are damned hard to find. (Not that I was going to buy them Susan, my dollars will always be yours).

Book Baron, Acres of Books, Once Read Books, Aladdin, etc. Only one signed edition of the 35th Anniv Edition among the lot of them, not one other Ellison book, hard- or paper-back. Yes, a bunch of things on eBay and Amazon -- but comparatively hard to come by.

Which brings me to my point: People who own Harlan's books, tend to KEEP Harlan's books.

I'm just pointing out the dreadfully obvious for anyone within shouting distance.

Speaking of which, Acres of Books -- reputedly one of Ray Bradbury's favorite bookstores in the entire known universe -- is in some danger. The City of Long Beach has narrowed a complete city-block redevelopment project down to two bidders, and neither of the projects (so far) seem to leave the building where it stands. This also endangers Terry's Cameras, another institution. So far everyone's been keeping a kind of embarrassed silence, not wanting to bring up the inevitable "but.. but...".

Thank you guys who took a look at my pic and sent me your thoughts. Things seem to have settled down, and one of the angry reviewers and I have made nice-nice. Looks as though the shot has settled in at #9 on the Most Controversial list, at least until someone else upsets the applecart.

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David Loftus
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Location: Portland, Oregon

the challenge of collecting Ellison

Postby David Loftus » Fri Jun 30, 2006 7:33 am

Name: David Loftus
Source: unca20060807.htm

Maybe I've just been very very lucky.

When I lived in Boston in the 1970s and 1980s, I didn't have a difficult time building my Ellison collection. The sf/f bookstore in Cambridge -- can't remember its name -- run by a little alien with thick bottle glasses named "Spike" always had good stuff. (I'm kicking myself that I didn't spring for a copy of The Chocolate Alphabet when he had them new; I still don't have a copy of my own!) And the Avenue Victor Hugo bookstore on Newbury Street in the Back Bay always had plenty on hand . . . that's where I bought my LPs of the Caedmon recordings of "Repent, Harlequin" and "Prowler in the City" a few years before the launch of HERC, as well as many books. (I missed Harlan's "writing a story in the window" gig there in about 1980, unfortunately, but I still have the Boston Phoenix clipping about it.)

Sadly, I gather both of those stores are now history, at least for walk-ins.

Now I live seven blocks from Powell's Books, and they always have at least eight to fifteen Ellisons on the shelf, often in multiple copies, as well as three to five special items (e.g., first edition, signed, of _Stalking the Nightmare_ tends to run about $75, and I bought my copy of the original Trident hardcover of _Love Ain't Nothing..._ for $125, if I remember correctly) in the locked glass cabinet at the end of the row. Granted, there's rarely something I don't already have, but it's nice to see them all every time I wander in.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am


Postby Harlan Ellison » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:25 am

Source: unca20060807.htm
The recent mini-spate of musings anent the vicissitudes of scoring out-of-print and/or obscure incunabula penned by a Writer Who Shall Go Unnamed, with all the attendant sturm und drang and sighing to the Four Corners of the Globe, plays right into the grasping, clutching, venality-engorged claws of my wife, The Shoppe Keeper of the Agora. She has been bedeviling me with the recurring nag titled "Raiders of Harlan's Secret Archive." Apparently, she made so much money--and sold every last item with people clamoring for more until I shut her down--that she is faunching to do another Spring Cleaning in that hidden aeyrie whereat I store the Tiffanys, Biedemeiers and shards of the Hope Diamond. I look on this enterprise with all the unalloyed joy one usually associates with a paper cut between the thumb and index finger, on which someone has poured lemon juice. Nonetheless, I now wash my hands of this filthy endeavor, and turn it over to you salivating li'l scavengers.(And, yes, David, we'll make sure there's a "Chocolate Alphabet" in there just for you!) It's YOUR barn-burning, tots: if you can get her to do it, I'll stand aside and just shake my head sagely. Oh, and yeah ... I'll sign the stuff.

BARNEY: Deposit that check already, willya?!?!?!

Yr. pal, Harlan

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Postby markabaddon » Fri Jun 30, 2006 9:36 am

Name: Mark Goldberg
Source: unca20060807.htm
Roger, I am tardy on posting this, but my condolences on your loss. Give me a call or drop me an email if you want to talk.

Adam-Troy: I posted some comments about both Civil War and 52 over on the bulletin boards. I would be very interested in hearing more of your thoughts about both comics.

I am looking forward to seeing what precious gems "The Shoppe Keeper of the Agora" can unearth.

Hope everyone has a great 4th of July,


Douglas Harrison
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Postby Douglas Harrison » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:27 am

Name: Douglas Harrison
Source: unca20060807.htm
Roger, I'm sad and sorry for the loss of your friend. I hope you can grieve for and celebrate Janet as well as I'm sure she deserves.



Susan, please please please snatch whatever tomes you can from Smaug's lair. Those of us who live a week's journey from any place resembling a decent bookstore have so few options that we must often transcribe from memory those stories we have heard third-hand from far-travelled wanderers.

Me and my ilk thank you in advance.


Douglas Harrison
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Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:26 am

Postby Douglas Harrison » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:29 am

Name: Douglas Harrison
Source: unca20060807.htm
Oops! "I and my ilk," I meant.

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Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Postby Mary » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:35 am

Name: Mary
Source: unca20060807.htm condolences...I know what it's like to lose a friend after a long heart goes out to you.

As for hard to find books by Harlan Ellison...

I cannot find "The Glass Teat" anywhere. I've searched high, low, around, under, through (I sound like Grover from Sesame Street, sheesh!)but I can never find that book. Some used book stores haven't even heard of that book, much less Harlan Ellison! (grumble, grumble.)
If that book is hiding in that pile, I will gladly part with whatever funds necessary. I really don't want the downloaded version. I really don't like reading books that way. Gives me a headache! If it's not there, then I'd like to put my bid in for some of the other ones.

Merci beaucoup!

Tony Rabig
Posts: 230
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Location: Parsons, KS

There's a download version of The Glass Teat?

Postby Tony Rabig » Fri Jun 30, 2006 10:58 am

Name: Tony Rabig
Source: unca20060807.htm
Have missed that creature completely. If in fact it exists, this here ebook junkie would love to be pointed toward the URL where I can buy one.

Thanks, bests to all, and a belated HB to Susan.


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Postby rich » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:16 am

Name: rich
Source: unca20060807.htm
To The Shoppe Keeper of the Agora:
I haven't much time afore the Lady returns from her sojourn and retakes this castle in which she has entrusted me with its upkeep, with particular emphasis on cleaning the master privy. Let it be known that I will pay a handsome price for the Ellison that I do not currently have in my handsome, yet amazingly humble, library in the northeast corner of this keep. I have a particular fondness for this "Glass Teat" that was mentioned by one of the commoners, and I'm sure that the nobility inherent in this missive is proof enough that one is more deserving of the "Teat" than the other. I also have a respectful, perhaps perverse, fondness for "Lies", but mayhap that is my own wicked conscience betraying me.

Enough. I've tarried too long with the quill, and the privy's odors are overpowering, yet intoxicating. If the Lady comes back...Again, I have baubles, perhaps some of that loathsome "cash" that seems to have lost favor in recent years, or, mayhap a barter could be worked out? Say, a perfectly healthy 2 year-old who is very cute, but doesn't listen to anything her father tells her and refuses with a will that certainly wasn't inherited from my side of the family to stop, please stop drawing on the walls and the table fer Chrissakes, and not on your arms...


I send this note in the hopes that you receive it in full despite the dangers lurking on this highway, full of tramps and trolls of the most icky sort.

God save the Queen, or, at least, Freddie Mercury's soul, yours in commerce,
Lord Rich of the Land of the Uppity Red Necks

Paul Jon
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Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:17 pm

Postby Paul Jon » Fri Jun 30, 2006 11:34 am

Name: Paul Leslie
Source: unca20060807.htm

David Loftus

Your mention of Powell's Books brought back some good memories.
I lived in Portland for some of my more formative years, fourteen to seventeen. Went to Hosford Middle School and Jefferson High and lived on SE 38th about six blocks off Hawthorn and the local Fred Meyers. Glad to hear Powell's is still around.

It was in that time period that I had my first real experience of Harlan Ellison. I had previously read some of his stories in my grandmas Fantasy and Science Fiction magazines. I think it was in 88' or so that I went to my first, and only, SF convention. It was a Gen Con in downtown Portland and I did not know Harlan was going to be there as he was not so much on my radar screen at the time.I did know Ursula K. Le Guin would be there and was very excited to see her as my mom had read to me from her books, The Earthsea books, when I was younger and that had left a magical place in my heart for her writing.

So anyway I went to the convention and was walking around beholding the strange sights and panels and plays when I strolled by a room filled with people and someone reading through a microphone. The sound of that voice changed me in some way forever. I had never heard anything like it. He was reading from "Laugh Track" and there was much laughter in the room. From that moment on I have been a Harlan Ellison fan and he is now my favorite contemporary writer. I was lucky to also hear Harlan read from "Jefty is Five" and get some books signed by him. By you Harlan if your reading.

After those good years in Oregon I moved back to southern California where I blamed the comparative discourtesy and stupidity of the people on the smog.

Lucky me in Burbank late one friday night I found this science fiction radio show on KPFK called Hour 25. Unfortunately I think one of the first shows I heard was the last from the late great Mike Hodell. But after that Harlan took over and for a lonely guy in Burbank he made my friday nights cool. Not to bore you all to death, thats some of my story of how I come to "know" Harlan.


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