Pavilion Digest: December 2006

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Pavilion Digest: December 2006

Postby admin » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:16 am

The following posts contain Art Deco Dining Pavilion messages for the month of December 2006.

John Greenawalt
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The writer's credo

Postby John Greenawalt » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:16 am

Name: John Greenawalt
Source: unca20070202.htm
We, the people, are the possessors and makers of language. We must look upon ourselves as inheritors of its glorious past, custodians of its present and guardians of its future. And we must use it well.

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Postby BrianSiano » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:20 am

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20070202.htm
Re "The Secret Integration." That story was published in 1964, which I'm pretty sure is before _DV_ was a spark in our host's eye. And since _The Crying of Lot 49_ was published in 1966, I'm not at all sure what might've been considered for _DV_ or its sequel.

Unless it was an early scene from the then-forthcoming _Gravity's Rainbow_...

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Ezra Lb.
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Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:24 am

Name: Ezra
Source: unca20070202.htm
Not to be pedantic (but then why the hell not?), but the double negative enjoys much honor outside the English mangling universe. Russians do it with gusto. It's just one of the wonderous peculiarities of language that in English it has become the mark of the terminal hayseed.

But Chaucer used even triple negatives and you can't get more highfalutin' than that. Perhaps in these latter days, in the sunset of empire, there may come a need for it again. Certainly contemplating what passes for "foreign policy" in the Bush administration can drive you to it.

And on another subject, some day my friends the American people are going to wake up out of their slumber and realize that the gilded cage we have created has turned into simply a cage.

So, what do we learn from this?

1. Don't order the hummus!

2. At the ball game when the crowd lustily sings " of the free and home of the brave.." they're just a bunch of effin' hypocrites.

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Shatterday reading by Harlan on LP in Seventies

Postby KOS » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:39 pm

Name: KOS
Source: unca20070202.htm
In 1976, at the Worldcon in Kansas City, MO, I purchased an LP that on the "A" side was " 'Repent, Harlequin!' Said The Ticktockman", the flip being "Shatterday", both read by Harlan Ellison.

They were stunning readings, natch. I don't recall the record label, other than it was a small independent and this was YEARS before HERC.

In a moment of idiocy located somewhere in the late 80s I gave all my LPs to a thrift store. I suspect that single disc would today be worth a tidy sum. -sigh-

Perhaps one of those records was where you heard "Shatterday"?

The record jacket had stunning artwork, I believe it was Leo and Diane Dillon, that IIRC was of Harlan as the Harlequin.


Postby Nate » Fri Dec 01, 2006 12:51 pm

Name: Nate
Source: unca20070202.htm

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Pynchon and Ellison

Postby matthewdavis » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:21 pm

Name: Matthew Davis
Source: unca20070202.htm
All the stuff about HE and Pynchon (The Secret Integrations as an inspiration for DV, mysterious late night phone calls, campaigns to bilk the IRS, etc) is in the interview HE gave in Contemporary Authors New Revision Series volume 5. It's one of the standard ref series published by Gale, so any university or larger branch library has probably got a copy

Jack Skillingstead
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Postby Jack Skillingstead » Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:45 pm

Name: Jack Skillingstead
Source: unca20070202.htm
KOS, I remember that record. I found it in the library back in the late 70's. It left a lasting impression on me.

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Odd's n Ends

Postby Moderator » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:00 pm

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20070202.htm
"The writer's credo

We, the people, are the possessors and makers of language. We must look upon ourselves as inheritors of its glorious past, custodians of its present and guardians of its future. And we must use it well."

Zat raht? This why I takes pit-chers. Ain't no editers gonna tell me mah precepshuns is wrong, and ah still gets a thousand tuh one advannij on them "word" thingys.

(Above corruption of the English language learned by long hours as a child reading too many Pogo comics.)

I just had a Harlan moment, BTW.

On message board I've discovered myself visiting every once in a while, I ran across the following commentary from an otherwise intelligent and well-intentioned writer: "I know of more than a few reporters who get their chosen leads replaced with something, often crappy, by editors. But the point is mute "

Followed by someone else who accused the poster of "... making a tempest in a molehill."

Nails on a chalkboard and tin foil on my contextual fillings.

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David Loftus
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early Ellison recording

Postby David Loftus » Fri Dec 01, 2006 2:48 pm

Name: David Loftus
Source: unca20070202.htm
The LP you folks are discussing, "Repent, Harlequin" b/w "Shatterday," reissued by HERC in 1981 with the same Dillon cover art, was first released by Alternate World Recordings in 1976. I own copies of both LPs. See more info in my brief review:

which is part of the audio wing (in woeful need of updating, I know) of Mike Zuzel's Islets of Langerhans web site:

Alan Coil
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Postby Alan Coil » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:12 pm

Name: Alan Coil
Source: unca20070202.htm
Steve Barber: that first example has 2 errors---'lead' and 'mute'.
But you may already have known that.
Here is a dictionary to not bother buying. The American Heritage Dictionary. It cost me $14 and has neither 'lede' nor 'bustard' in its listings. I wanted a handy dictionary to keep near my computer, but this just isn't handy enough.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:45 pm

Source: unca20070202.htm

He was correct. Dead-on memory correct. I had read "The Secret Integration" when it originally appeared in either Collier's or The Saturday Evening Post, and before anyone really knew Tom's name. I was blown away by its (at the time) daring and cleverness. Subsequently, but not THAT much subsequently, when I devised the idea for DANGEROUS VISIONS -- and this was perhaps its fourth or fifth "moment of invention" on my part -- including a disastrous attempt to get Judith Merril to do a version of the idea for me when I was editing Regency Books in 1960 or '61 -- the first person approached to be in the book (and it would've been the ONLY reprint among originals) was Tom, through his agent.

The story of what thereafter went down, resulting in Tom and I becoming friends, I've told repeatedly, and will not do so again for latecomers. Suffice to say, he was right; your musings are wrong.

Yr. pal, Harlan

P.S. And no, I haven't bought Tom's new one yet. I'm waiting for the cheap bastard to send me a signed copy.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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YO ....... SIANO!!!!!!

Postby Harlan Ellison » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:02 pm

Source: unca20070202.htm
Brian, whyfor you think "The Secret Integration" was published in 1964? Tom would never NEVER permit its reprinting, for years and years, for what I always thought were dopey reasons; but I'm almost dead positive that I read it before '64.

Either way, your suppositions don't hold, because DV was in work in 1965 or 6, if I recall, and it came out in 1967 ... so wherefore you got a chrono-prob? Makes perfect sense to me, even if you are correct that the original magazine publication was 1964.

Bewildered, Yr. Pal, Harlan

Connie W.

Words, words, words...and Harlan, and James Bond, and babbli

Postby Connie W. » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:27 pm

Name: Connie W.
Source: unca20070202.htm
Alan Coil wrote: "...that first example has 2 errors---'lead' and 'mute'. But you may already have known that."

Uh, Alan, I think that was, like, Steve Barber's point!


On the other hand, I sort of like the errors. I mean, if an uninformed idiot had to go open his mouth and make a point, wouldn't it be nice if it was a "mute" one?


Other stuff, I did indeed like the new Bond film. They more or less did the torture scene the way it actually plays out in the Casino Royale book, very gritty, but with the addition of some very clever banter between victim and torturer. I don't want to spoil it for anybody who hasn't seen the film yet, but men in particular will cringe mightily. I also appreciate the absence of silly gadgets and pointlessly gratuitous sex scenes. It's all back to character and intrigue, thank you very much! And lordy, lordy, Daniel Craig is a HANDSOME man! Yummy. He can definitely act a little as well. I do hope they go on and remake a few of the earlier films while maintaining the same level of respect for the integrity of the books like this one did.

Finally got a copy of Slippage, FINALLY got a chance to read The Man Who Rowed Christopher Columbus Ashore, and loved oh so much more in the book. All I can say is...shoot-dang-yippee! That Ellison kid can sure write! Thanks, Harlan, for being there and often making a difference.

Other other stuff, is it just me or does it seem like the Battlestar Gallactica writers have sort of written themselves into a rather dull corner this season? I'm really not complaining, since it's still the ONLY show on TV that I NEVER miss, but I feel like there's some little dynamic missing in the arc these days. We'll see, we'll see.

Later gators! Love you all!

Connie W. (No, not Willis, so don't even ask!), a misquided little girl from the south who migrated to the north for work (history writing and photography) and is now freezing her butt off in Rochester!

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Replying to a direct question

Postby BrianSiano » Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:53 pm

Name: Brian Siano
Source: unca20070202.htm
Harlan, here's how the reasoning went. I'd heard that you'd tapped Pynchon for a contribution for one of the DV volumes. Someone had suggested that it was "The Secret Integration." That didn't seem likely to me because it had been published already (_Saturday Evening Post_, December 1964), and as far as I knew _DV_ was original material only.

I hadn't known you were willing to bend that rule for Pynchon. So that definitely clears up the chrono-problem.

If you hear from Pynchon, tell him that some of us have enormous respect for his writing, and we wish him the very best. And that's as intrusive as I ever want to be with the gentleman.

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