Pavilion Digest: February 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:08 pm

Source: unca20090314.htm

You could not have selected a more perfect example to denounce your theory had you solicited same from me ... or the thousands of good writers who are unable to make a living since the advent of this snake-eyed medium that calls itself the Worldwide Web, at the center of which resides a poisonous spider deadlier than the false charges brought against John Peter Zenger. If you know what I'm talking about, to quote Sara Slaymaker.

Harlan Ellison

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Postby Pogue » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:00 pm

Name: Pogue
Source: unca20090314.htm
E-books? Not this lad. The only proper way to read a book is with it as a physical thing held in your hands, flipping pages, touching it, feeling it, smelling it, as well as reading it.

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Sara Slaymaker
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Postby Sara Slaymaker » Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:57 pm

Name: Sara Slaymaker
Source: unca20090314.htm
You're right, I did not know about Steve and Riding the Bullet. The last thing I ever read about the "experiment" was a quote, purportedly by Steve, crowing about how he had made something like $250,000 off of a story he would have sold to a magazine for $5000. Obviously I was misinformed, and therefore I apologize for putting forth a misinformed opinion.

In my own defense, I buy lots of books. The real kind. They know me by name at the local bookstore AND at the bookstores in the nearest big city. And it was never my intention to espouse a medium that didn't properly compensate the people who actually wrote the books. Honestly, I thought they operated much the same way as a bookstore - again, a badly informed opinion. I'm sorry. I have enough respect for you, Harlan, and for your opinions, to stop buying ebooks.

But I'm still getting my Mom a Kindle.

M Jacka
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Postby M Jacka » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:09 pm

Name: Mike Jacka
Source: unca20090314.htm
The Grammys is the only (and I mean only) awards show I watch. Its the musician in me. And I have always been a defender of all types of music. Maybe I dont understand them, but I wont be the one to tell you its not good. I may not like it, but I will defend your decision to listen to it.

However, having watched Lil Wayne (I refuse to bother looking up to find out whether there is an apostrophe in there or not), I give up on my defense of rap. That piece of crap he performed in honor of New Orleans revealed rap at its worst. It wasn't music, and it wasn't even good enough to be called bad poetry. He showed no talent other than the ability to slap words to a beat in a manner that makes one beg to have nails put in ones ears in order to end the offense. I know Im just projecting, but Allen Toussaint (a real musician) looked to be embarrassed to be a part of that travesty; as though he just wanted to get his work done and get out of there.

I will defend rap (or hip-hop or whatever the hell it was that Lil Wayne was doing) no more.

That sucked.


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Small point of clarification

Postby julian.rodriguez » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:21 pm

Name: Julian Rodriguez
Source: unca20090314.htm
I thought Stephen King's "The Plant" had the failed tipping jar model, and "Riding the Bullet" was released through the more traditional e-book model (though it was free to download for the first week). My understanding was that the cracking of Bullet's encryption and the mass piracy that followed was what led King to try the tipping jar experiment with "The Plant."

Julian Rodriguez

Tony Rabig
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Location: Parsons, KS


Postby Tony Rabig » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:33 pm

Name: Tony Rabig
Source: unca20090314.htm
Well, this kid does read ebooks. Lots of 'em -- and not the someone's-pet-monkey-loose-on-the-keyboard variety, but real books by real writers. The words are the words, whether you're reading them on the page or on the screen. For someone with limited shelf space, the ebook is a godsend. If given the choice of purchasing a title in e or in print, I'll generally go with e, and have purchased ebook replacements for a hefty number of books from my shelves (the area libraries kinda like inheriting some of those). While I'm not one of those who thinks the printed book will or should disappear or thinks that the ebook is without flaw, I find that the ebook offers me a number of practical advantages.

And note -- "purchased," not simply downloaded. I like 'em legit -- the creators get something, even if it isn't enough, and the book you buy legit is a cleaner copy than something fed through a scanner and shotgunned out on the web with no proofreading.

And given the unfavorable comments re: ebooks usually found here, I'm not sure if I should say .... ah, hell, I'll say it: five more HE titles showed up in the new releases today at Fictionwise and EReader. (Did I buy them immediately? No. I waited until I got home from work.) Dangerous Visions, Approaching Oblivion, An Edge in My Voice, Children of the Streets, and City on the Edge of Forever are now available in legit ebook editions. Forget the game apps for your Palm or your iPod Touch -- load those suckers up with ebooks instead.

Bests to all,

-- tr,
who paid for Riding the Bullet and every installment of The Plant before King pulled the plug; who paid for each of our host's ebooks; who paid Spinrad for He Walked Among Us; who purchased a print copy of Lew Shiner's new novel Black & White as well as downloading the free pdf from Shiner's web site; who ... you get the idea.

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Jim Davis
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Postby Jim Davis » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:34 pm

Name: Jim Davis
Source: unca20090314.htm
Yep, because one performance you don't like invalidates an entire musical genre.

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E-Books & Such

Postby Kate » Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:48 pm

Name: Kate
Source: unca20090314.htm
Perhaps it is because I grew up in the 1960s as opposed to the techie era in which we live... but I can't imagine reading a book on the computer... or even a kindle. I love to hold books in my hands, while curled up on the couch with a hot cup of coffee nearby. My idea of a perfect day is to be on that couch, with my book and coffee, and looking up occasionally to watch the rain hitting against the french doors.

I'm not much for buying books via the Internet, either. While the selection may be better, there is something very satisfying about going into a book store and losing oneself for an hour or so, perusing the bookshelves.

Simple pleasures.

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am

Postby Harlan Ellison » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:25 pm

Source: unca20090314.htm

Don't you DARE stop buying e.books, or incunabula, or Phoenician palimpsests, or anyotherdamnthing! You have done nothing wrong or improper or needing of an apology to an asshole such as I! As usual, I was injudicious in my tone; and I would walk over burning coals rather than seem officious or condemnatory toward you. You are a fine person, smart and free of excess ... qualities to which I aspire.

PLEASE do not heed my seeming chide. I am too often a gibbering fool, and you really MUST separate my cackles from my cognition. It is I who should apologize to you.


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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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SARA P.S. with a nod of gratitude to JULIAN

Postby Harlan Ellison » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:31 pm

Source: unca20090314.htm
I believe he is correct, and I was suffering from nitrogen narcosis...somewhat out of my depth. Thank you, Mr. Rodriguez. Thank you, Ms. Slaymaker. Ooooooboy, am IIIIII gettin' old and feeble.


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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
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Postby Harlan Ellison » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:53 pm

Source: unca20090314.htm

Cut Mike some slack. When one is betrayed by what formerly you championed, you are to a significant and observable degree, no less than


I adored Sinatra's art before the dust-up I had with him. Thereafter, and to this day, I cannot listen to Sinatra. It is what we call in Yiddish, a shonduh.

Mike posted a moment of betrayal, a moment of...well...for want of an easier trope...heartbreak.

Slack would be the decent thing to give someone in pain.


Josh Olson
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Postby Josh Olson » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:19 pm

Name: Josh Olson
Source: unca20090314.htm
Gadzooks. If I were to allow the character of every artist whose work has moved me interfere with my enjoyment, I'd be left with nothing but Mr. Rogers re-runs.

When I worked my first job on a film set many years ago, another movie was shooting on the same lot starring a guy who was a pretty big star then, an enormous one now. The enormity of his star was nothing compared to the enormity of his assholishness. In the last twenty years, he's starred in several movies that I just love to death. I'd probably never want to work with the guy, and certainly have no desire to be his pal, but if I let his character interfere with my enjoyment of his work, my life would be a little bit greyer.

Sadly, talent and character do not always go hand in hand.

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Site Admin
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Postby Moderator » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:23 pm

Name: Steve Barber
Source: unca20090314.htm

HARLAN/ADAM-TROY - This one's a slippery one. Even my employer (initials "VZ") had labeled the site "a known source" (of bad kharma, doubtless). But despite the hidden identity, I think some Dutch folks might be a bit concerned.

I have the info H requested and will be firing it off tomorrow before the Vegas run. Desert. Vegas. A not-so-innocent Brit and his Celtic lass. Heh, heh.

(Ask James not about the "Purple Haze"...)

Jes - Worry not about the British economy. The Moran/Kearns are overseas contributing to the much more pained American dollar. The giving is selfless. Unadorned. (Faintly scented of rum, but we won't go into that.)

Rest easy, mon ami.

HARLAN - Not only did Stephen King attempt the "pay me what you will", but so did your good friend Norman Spinrad with the story "HE WALKED AMONG US". Not sure if he mentioned it to you, but I hope he fared slightly better (though I doubt it...)

JC Smith

Torrent Site

Postby JC Smith » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:08 pm

Name: JC Smith
Source: unca20090314.htm

I noticed a couple of your works are floating around on
I see that even though the name of the registrant is private, they are based out of Scottsdale Arizona.
I can send you their phone#, address, etc... if you like. They can claim a lack of complicity, but you should be able, at the very least, to get the torrent links to your stuff taken down, and maybe even the contact info for the bung-hole that pirated it in the first place...maybe even.
If'n yer a wantin' the info, let me know, and I will post it for you.
J o' the S

Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm


Postby Semi-Writer » Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:25 pm

Name: Semi-Writer
Source: unca20090314.htm
KOS - Why "semi," you asked? Funny that we should be discussing eBooks at the moment. Because, yes, I have that loathsome thing called an EBOOK. It was a package deal with one of the first three books that I SELF-PUBLISHED. (Have I turned stomachs yet? Oh, trust me, it gets worse... though I dare not confess my other literary sin in this place.) Now apparently I am a loathsome creature for going these routes, but I really had no choice. I was and still desperate to some degree to have people read what I write. Even if it is for free.

In an intro to one of his books, Harlan Ellison wrote of his ego cannibalizing itself and how he was rescued by a Dorothy Parker review. In my mid-twenties, mine started to do the same--this is not a good thing for someone with low self-esteem, who has so little ego to work off of as it is. But I had no rescuer like HE did. Not even family or friends who (uck) READ. Hence the "Semi-Writer." Articles that I wrote for magazines and newspapers, and the photos that I took to go along with them, got published with no problem. It was very rare to have something nonfiction rejected. But that was not the case with the short stories and the books. Only one short story has ever made it into legitimate print, and that was in my college literary magazine, "The Dark Tower." In 1992. Ego, he go "chomp chomp."

Have you all seen I've got work up there as well. I saw the site's owner being interviewed on; he said that he wanted to do for the written word what YouTube did for videos (in other words, we need to keep a sharp eye out for copyright-iinfringing idiots uploading HE's work there, too). Uh, yea. Do I believe that Scribd will bring any level success or fame? Oh, hell, no. Not for a moment. Perfect example of my skepticism lies in a ten-minute script that I wrote for a Scriptwriting class in college ( The site randomly chose to "Feature" it and then put it on their "Hot List." Oh, yea, it now has over 800 views, oh, goody-goody. But by no means do I consider it worth ANY attention. I put it up on a whim.

I would say that I suck as a fiction writer... if not for hundreds of reviews from that third unmentionable category of internet-related writing. I have made people laugh, cry, gasp and think through the short-story form. I've even had someone throw their arms around me in a fan-joy burst of recognition. That's good stuff for the ego. Bad for the pocket book.

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