Pavilion Digest: April 2009

A plethora of perplexing pavilion posts. The Pavilion Annex thread, the Pavilion Discussion thread, and monthly digests of all messages from the Pavilion.

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Susan Ellison
Posts: 68
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:20 pm

Postby Susan Ellison » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:04 am

Source: unca20090603.htm

Don't worry, RH #48 is still available. I also still have a few WEIRD TALES and DEATHBIRD STORIES. No problems.

All best--Susan

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Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:24 am

Name: Frank Church
Source: unca20090603.htm
Rick Ollerman, tax cuts are fine, but for who? This is the argument. I was just posting the raw numbers.

Now I see why you avoid politics.

Balanced budgets are great, if you live in a fascist state, but democracies work when there is manageable debts. Spending is part of the ways of keeping Americans stable. In fact, an actual welfare state is a good thing to strive for. Too long to discuss it now, and it bores Harlan. Come to the forums young man.

Even Aristotle believed a working democracy had to have a large welfare state. He didn't like democracy, for obvious reasons.


I am so mad at Barber right now I could scream. You should see what he wrote in the forums. Ann Coulter stuff folks.

I could just spit nails. lol

Garland D. Hall


Postby Garland D. Hall » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:26 am

Name: Garland D. Hall
Source: unca20090603.htm
Facts can be a mite slippery when you uncritically accept what you read. They can turn and bite the hand that types them, especially when they are easily checkable and proven to not be "facts".

As in:

"4. Amount of democracies created between 1989 and 1996: 71

Amount created since: Zero!"

Harpers, as cited by inimitable Frank Church.

Sorry, but unless you and Harpers use your own "definition" of democracy (a muggs game often played in such matters when one has an agenda, which of course Harper's does. That's why they exist. Point of view, agenda, mission statement. Whatever.) to wiggle out of the predicament of stating as "fact" something that anyone who has paid attention to the news over the past ten years knows to be not so.

To wit:

Serbia- Since the fall from power of Milosevic in 2000, Serbia has held several free elections. the first in over fifty years. That's one "democracy" created since 1996.

Iraq- It has held several more or less free elections since the American overthrow of Saddam Hussein and his Baath party in 2003. You won't count it, I imagine, since it is still under American occupation. Walks like a duck, quacks. Two.

Mexico went from decades of one party rule to having the first non-PRI president in over 70 years when Vicente Fox was elected in 2000. Three.

In 2008 Leftist Fernando Lugo ended over sixty years of one party conservative rule in Paraquay by winning election as president.

There are more, but I think after four, that would just be piling on.

If the "Democarcies created since 1996" statement is a sample of how well Harpers fact checks, I would not give a bucket of warm spit for your other Harpers "facts". They may be good as gold, but judging by this one, don't bet the house on it.


Brandon Butler

Frustrated with LOST

Postby Brandon Butler » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:30 am

Name: Brandon Butler
Source: unca20090603.htm
I know there's a fan or two of LOST on here. Is anyone else here just about had it with this season of the show?

For about 4 seasons I've had a wonderful trip that, while not always moving the story forward, always seemed to know where it was going and always immersed me. Not every epsiode was top-notch or anything, but I always felt I was being told a good story by writers than did thier homework.

This season... NOT so.

There's a lot of continuity problems that are really making me turn against this show. For those of you that watch, here's a short list of things that don't seem explainable:

1. Why does Locke not recognize Charles Widmore in "The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham" in Season 5 when Ben Linus EXPLCITLY SHOWED HIM A VIDEOTAPE of the guy in Season 4?

2. Why does Hurley know Locke is Jeremy Betham when everything we see from his visit shows Locke never told him?

3. Why does Jack say to Ben in the Season 4 finale that Locke told him that Ben was off the Island in a visit to him when we see now Locke's visit to Jack and see that he said no such thing?

4. Why does Daniel Faraday, in a clip from season 4's intro to him, have short hair and in the season 5 epsiode last night they continue that SAME scene with footage coming directly after it... and now his hair is at least twice as long??? What, did the guy grow to his shoulders in 2-3 seconds?

I really liked this show, but this stuff is getting really unneccesarily sloppy and could have been easily avoided. It's spoiling my enjoyment of what I felt was previously a quality show.

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Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:05 am


Postby Adam-Troy » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:56 am

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20090603.htm
HARLAN: Happy to hear it. And keep plugging away. I wanna get the 75th Anniversary ESSENTIAL. (And the hundredth, though that may be asking too much.)


FRANK: Much as I hate to put additional weight on an argument where the opponent has already backed down, **the current issue** of THE NEW YORKER has an unabashed science fiction story, about genetic manipulation in an era of travel to other planets, available online. ... ntPage=all

Nor is it, as I have said, the only science fiction or fantasy story to be published there in the last few years. I remember "Talking Chimp Holds First Press Conference," and Jack Handy's "What I'll Say to the Martians." (Though I may have the titles of both slightly off). And, of course, Brockmeier's "A Brief History of the Dead."


Israel's Deputy Health Minister Y'Akov Litzman (spellings vary, because of transliteration), has objected to the term Swine Flu, as he believes that offensive to both Jews and Muslims. He says, "We should call this Mexican flu and not swine flu." Because it's not okay to offend Jews or Muslims, but perfectly okay to dump on Mexicans.

And why would the name Swine Flu insult Jews and Muslims, anyway? It seems to me, that those who eschew pork products would feel vindicated.


Another Asshole: North Carolina Republican representative Virginia Foxx stood up in front of, among other people, Matthew Shepard's mother, and called classification of his murder as a hate crime a "hoax." She used the word "hoax" in front of the mother of a murdered boy.

Posts: 301
Joined: Sun Jan 23, 2005 10:05 am


Postby Adam-Troy » Thu Apr 30, 2009 7:58 am

Name: Adam-Troy Castro
Source: unca20090603.htm
Oh, and I'm mightily impressed with LOST's accomplishments this season, and think they're wrapping up the big picture just fine (even as they're missing some of the smaller details.) So no, I haven't "had it." Not by a long shot.

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David Loftus
Posts: 3182
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon

just plain politics

Postby David Loftus » Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:07 am

Name: David Loftus
Source: unca20090603.htm

Of course tax cuts work!

They garner votes, don't they?

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Harlan Ellison
Harlan Fucking Ellison
Posts: 847
Joined: Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:24 am


Postby Harlan Ellison » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:24 am

Source: unca20090603.htm
The Swedish "ESSENTIAL ELLISON" you saw in the IKEA store is titled ENSAMVARK (which is actually Swedish for the title of the lead story, "Lonelyache," a popular story of mine in Sweden.
It is in Swedish, naturally, and is a very spiffy volume. Thus, it is NOT the ESSENTIAL, but a stand-alone collection assembled by my Swedish editor, John-Henri Holmberg, to memorialize my and Susan's trip to Sweden to promote said collection and one other title. The cover artwork is what fooled you: it is a smaller version of the Dillons's cryptothesian painting--a la Archimboldo--from the actual ESSENTIAL. We sell it, because we bought out all the remainder copies. Pretty rare item.

We sell it for twenty bucks, mint condition, signed if you so request. It was on the book list that was an insert in your most recent RABBIT HOLE ... as it has been for the past twenty-five issues, had you but taken notice.

Happy to sell you (or anyone else) a copy. Just use the order form in the RB ... not here. It's a HERC special, has nothing to do with ordering anything here.

Oh, and by the way ... Chuck Demorat and I have cut trail: thank you, the several people who effectuated the liaison.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Shane Shellenbarger
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2006 9:11 am

Healthy Harlan

Postby Shane Shellenbarger » Thu Apr 30, 2009 10:41 am

Name: Shane Shellenbarger
Source: unca20090603.htm
Harlan- Let me join the chorus of "Hip, Hip, Hooray" for your health. Keep on keeping on.

If anyone here wants to see me in my "fanboy" alter ego, check out Mark Evanier's blog at ... tml#017048 ... tml#017049

This photo is thirty-six years old, so I was sixteen at the time. By that age, Harlan had been driving dynamite trucks. Shazam!

Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm

Harlan, it's a relief...

Postby Semi-Writer » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:32 am

Name: Semi-Writer
Source: unca20090603.htm
Excellent to hear that you're in good shape, there, Mr. Ellison. Because I owe you a hug for your efforts here, you know. And there's no getting out of it. I'm not a hugger in general--just as Greg Proops on that one (speaking of which, do you know him?). I've been a fan of Greg's for eight years, watched him do both stand-up and Improv everywhere from Boston to Irvine, sat close enough to the Hollywood Improv stage to end up with both his fly and his rear less than a foot away from my face, but am still not comfortable enough for that fan-hug greeting of affection. But for you, Harlan, I am obligated to make an exception.

Changed the insurance over and registered my truck today in Encino. It's all in Entry #8 at for those of you following the journey. And a big thank you to those who helped with that registration process!

Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:37 am
Location: Bloomington, IN

Bork Bork Bork

Postby Jazzman99 » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:37 am

Name: Joseph Walker
Source: unca20090603.htm
Weirdly enough, I was just coming to post here today because when I sent in my HERC membership renewal last week, I also ordered a few back issues of Rabbit Hole...and a copy of "Ensamvark." The reason I was going to post about this is because Susan was kind enough to throw in a little bonus with the order, and I wanted to offer my thanks and praise for her generosity and thoughtfulness. Susan, you made my day!

It is bizarre to have opened the package with Ensamvark just an hour or so ago and then come here to find it actually being discussed. I neither speak nor read Swedish, but I've been seeing it listed in the RH for what seems like years, and I wanted to order something along with my renewal, and it's actually the only hardback book on the form I didn't already what the hey. It's an attractive little volume, and it'll look nice on my shelves o' Ellison.

Thanks again, Susan!

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John E Williams
Posts: 210
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 9:34 am

Lost in LOST

Postby John E Williams » Thu Apr 30, 2009 11:58 am

Name: JohnEWilliams
Source: unca20090603.htm

Interestingly, I just read an interview at the "Lostpedia" site with producer/writer team Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof, where they were asked specifically about some of the plot holes you mentioned here. Cuse's response:

"You know, I think these kinds of questions are ones that we loathe to answer. You know, the sort of providing answers and interpretation of those kinds of things I think is not to the benefit of the show at this moment in time. We stand by Bentham as an episode that explains what happened to Locke after he went back to the real world and how he ended up dead. I think that, you know, we really dont want to say anything further about it right now." (Full interview tharabouts: ... n_Lindelof )

I dunno, either those guys are bullshitting like mad or they know exactly what they're doing, and despite some very minor misfires this season I believe it's the latter.

Posts: 92
Joined: Sat May 26, 2012 6:24 pm


Postby Semi-Writer » Thu Apr 30, 2009 12:00 pm

Name: Semi-Writer
Source: unca20090603.htm
That was, "just ask" not "just as."

Anyone see a "k" floating around here? (looks under pillows)

Posts: 113
Joined: Tue May 27, 2003 8:43 pm
Location: Winston-Salem, NC

Postby sjarrett » Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:32 pm

Name: Steve Jarrett
Source: unca20090603.htm

Wonderful news on the health front. Thank you for the courtesy of keeping us informed.


It pains me more than I can say to acknowledge that the disgusting Virgina Foxx represents the North Carolina district in which I live. To call her an "asshole" is an unconscionable affront to actual assholes. In her own way, this iniquitous harpy is as great an embarrassment to North Carolina as was the late, unlamented Jesse Helms.

Steve J.

Amy Kostyn-Jenkins

Postby Amy Kostyn-Jenkins » Thu Apr 30, 2009 2:30 pm

Name: Amy Kostyn-Jenkins
Source: unca20090603.htm
Dear Harlan,

I was so pleased to read that you're doing well. Ben and I were worried about you, though you said not to. It's just what we do. Our circle of loved ones is pretty small, and we don't want to lose anyone.

Love to you and Susan,
Amy (and Ben)

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