Frank's pop culture minute.

For the discussion of Movies, Television, Comics, and other existential distractions.

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Steve Evil
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Postby Steve Evil » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:35 pm

My isn't everyone in a good mood today!

Alright, I caved, I listened, and thought: "that's it?". The way you guys went on you'd think he killed someone. He got pissed off. Who hasn't? He used some bad words. Why is that shocking? He blew his top because someone carelessly ruined the scene. They didn't just distract him, they ruined the scene. It had to be redone. I probably would have said the same things. I mean, imagine you've spent all day working on something poured your blood sweat and soul into it, and some damn fool (who should have known better-not just some innocent schmuck but someone who actually should have known better) comes along and wrecks it. If you didn't have at least a couple choice phrases for the bugger you're probably not human.

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Jim Davis
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Postby Jim Davis » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:40 pm

Josh Olson wrote:
Jim Davis wrote:I have no doubt that the DP's crossing his sight lines was distracting to Bale (duh), but was it really that difficult for him to ignore it, soldier on, and complete the take? Stage actors almost never have clear sight lines, yet they're able to pull off performance after performance with nary a hitch. (Yes, I know film acting is done on a different time-frame, but still.)


Unreal. That you feel this is a reasonable comment to make pretty much says it all.


Why? I've seen actors perform Shakespeare in the park in conditions so noisy that I'm amazed they even got their entrances right; yet, they pulled it off beautifully. One of my best friends in the world is a long-standing stage actor/director who, when I saw him perform in Suzan-Lori Parks's Topdog/Underdog, did one of the most amazing things I've ever seen: His co-star (it's a two-man play), in the middle of a long, emotional monologue, actually skipped ahead a page right before he addressed him; instead of losing his cool, my friend combined both the later and the original responses in such a way that he kept the emotional continuity while getting the play back on the correct track. All without giving one hint that a major mistake had occurred.

Given all that, is it really so outrageous to wonder if Bale could've held it together long enough to complete the take (thereby saving time and money) before blowing his top at the DP?

Jim Davis wrote:Josh, you're planning on directing a film, right? Would you want people on your set talking to each other like that?


I HAVE directed a film, Jim. And I've been in this business and on sets for twenty years, and that is why, when I tell you you have no idea what the bloody blue hell you're talking about, it would behoove an educated person to pause and consider, rather than patronize someone whose authority on this matter dwarfs your own.

But no, no matter how much one argues against the ignorance of the uninvolved, they must have their say. They must get their clucking in, and they must inform you about that which they do not know.

I don't know what it is you do for a living, Jim, but unless it's a job I've done or spent a great deal of time around, the notion of lecturing you as to how it's done, and how one should behave while doing it would never, in a million years, cross my mind. Arrogant prick I may be, but I've never taken it as far as you have with that comment.


I didn't lecture you or tell you how to do your job. I asked a simple question that you, for whatever reason, refused to answer.

I did a movie with Linda Hamilton once, many years ago. As we were standing around the set chatting, a man came up to her and said, ""Oh my God, I loved you in that movie about the volcano."

"Dante's Peak," she said.

"No, no," the guy replies. "The other one."

"I wasn't in the other one," she said politely. "I was in Dante's Peak."

"No," he says, starting to get angry. "You were in the other one."

Linda smiled, and walked away, because Linda is way more polite than I am, or our esteemed host. But the point remains - when you work in a high profile business that people take such pleasure in reading about and discussing knowingly, you end up in these situations. You end up with people feeling that it is completely and utterly reasonable to lecture you in how things work in your world. I have no doubt that asshole went home and told his pals that he met Linda Hamilton, and she was incredibly rude to him. More perverse, that probably made him happier than if he had a story about how nice she was to him.


I'm not sure what the point of this anecdote was, as I haven't given one indication that I think a situation like that would be cool, or that someone shouldn't by peeved by it.

Jim, you have no concept, no clue, and no tiny little twinkling of how utterly boorish your post was. I do not doubt your intentions were decent, and you're taken aback by my response. Nonetheless, your comments - take in context, unlike Bale's - were rude, presumptuous, ignorant and arrogant.


See, this is why I had major, major doubts about even saying "boo!" in this thread. I've noticed this about you, Josh, in the few years you've been posting here: you never, ever fail, no matter whom you're debating, to (a) go for the ad hominems and insulting language, and (b) use numerous Appeals to Authority, which are only one of the biggest logical fallacies there are. Yes, of course your experience in Hollywood is valid, but that in itself doesn't constitute a winning argument. In the post above, you spent more time brandishing your CV and thinking up synonyms for "dumb" than actually addressing any of my (or anyone else's) arguments.

I mean, if how many movies sets you've worked on is the sole measure of how seriously we should take your points, then any Tinseltown hack is, by your definition, never wrong about anything! And you and I both know that isn't even remotely close to being true.

And the funny thing is, the actual mechanics of a movie set aren't really what is being discussed here. Whether Bale or Shane Hurlbut are jerks isn't the crux of this; it's whether or not there's ever a justification for trying to humiliate and denigrate another human being in a matter that doesn't involve life and death. (I mean, we're talking about a Terminator movie, here!) It doesn't take twenty years of film experience to talk about that; it doesn't even take one day. All it does take is living around people long enough to know that you don't treat people like that and expect anyone else to respect you. Again, and it's tiresome that I have to keep repeating this to you: I never said that Bale didn't have a perfect right to lose his cool and yell at Hurlbut to stop (repeatedly) tweaking lights in the middle of a scene. But, as is obvious to several people here (you not of them), that isn't all he did. Whatever the line is, whether it involves physical threats or x number of "fucks" or going over a minute . . . it's clear that Bale sailed right over it.

That you can't see that, and that you continue to defend his outburst by claims to Sekrit Nawledge that ultimately have no relevance (not that you've bothered to share them with us) is, frankly, kind of sad. I wish your actors on Until Gwen luck.

Jim Davis

P.S. I had no idea that you'd directed a feature, before, so that was my bad. Of course, looking at the user comments for Infested on imdb, maybe it's best that you don't brag about that item on your CV overmuch. *wink*
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"His plan therefore was not to refuse admission to the idea, but to keep it at bay until his mind was ready to receive it. Then let it in and pulverise it. Obliterate the bastard."--Samuel Beckett

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Jim Davis
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Postby Jim Davis » Mon Feb 23, 2009 9:43 pm

Josh Olson wrote:For what it's worth - and it's clear that the opinions of knowledgeable professionals are virtually worthless here - I don't know a single person in the business who heard that tape and didn't instantly grasp that they were hearing an actor air a legitimate grievance with an insanely unprofessional DP.


Um, there's at least one person in the business in this thread who disagrees with you on that. (And as much as I hate flouncing, I'll let you have the last word on this. I can't say anything more without repeating myself, so I'm done.)
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"His plan therefore was not to refuse admission to the idea, but to keep it at bay until his mind was ready to receive it. Then let it in and pulverise it. Obliterate the bastard."--Samuel Beckett

Alan Coil
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Postby Alan Coil » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:53 pm

Steve Evil wrote:Alright


Alright isn't a word, all right? :wink:

Josh Olson
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Postby Josh Olson » Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:56 am

Jim,

You are rude, ignorant, arrogant, and the worst kind of hypocrite. The only difference between your behavior and that which you decry is you don't use four letter words, and I suspect you think that makes some kind of difference, which goes to both the "ignorant" and the "hypocrite" appellations.

I have attacked the woeful reasoning and arrogance of your argument, and have only approached personal attack in response to your galloping condescension. You have attacked me personally and professionally, neither of which you're qualified to do.

I'm done with you. No further comment from you is required or requested.

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Tue Feb 24, 2009 3:59 am

Alan Coil,

You're the type who literalizes everything, and TOTALLY misses what's going on. That's fine, if you know enough not to counsel people with so much self-assurance. You are, in fact, CLUELESS.

In dialog, "alright" is something you use for "colloquial license". It's for something called...EFFECT! Understand that word? "Effect". That's right: "Effect". Say it with me, that your neurons will be able to fuse the elements of this great concept: "Effect".

"All right" is FORMAL English. "Alright" is known as INFORMAL English, used for...what's that WORD? No - you missed it: "EFFECT".

So, shut up and stop being so fuckin' dense.

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Tue Feb 24, 2009 4:07 am

Just look at this beautiful mine field in the early morning dew!

Alan Coil
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Postby Alan Coil » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:13 am

robochrist wrote:Alan Coil,

You're the type who literalizes everything, and TOTALLY misses what's going on. That's fine, if you know enough not to counsel people with so much self-assurance. You are, in fact, CLUELESS.

In dialog, "alright" is something you use for "colloquial license". It's for something called...EFFECT! Understand that word? "Effect". That's right: "Effect". Say it with me, that your neurons will be able to fuse the elements of this great concept: "Effect".

"All right" is FORMAL English. "Alright" is known as INFORMAL English, used for...what's that WORD? No - you missed it: "EFFECT".

So, shut up and stop being so fuckin' dense.


Dense is my middle name. Clueless? Nope. Your 'effect' doesn't affect me. Here's hoping you have a great and wonderful day.

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:25 am


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Postby Moderator » Tue Feb 24, 2009 9:58 am

OKAY.

STRONGLY WORDED REQUEST THAT THE TONE OF THE POSTS BE MODERATED.

That you guys disagree is fine. But getting nasty about it is not.

Get it?

Ye Olde Mod
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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Tue Feb 24, 2009 10:21 am


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David Loftus
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Postby David Loftus » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:37 pm

Josh Olson wrote:
David Loftus wrote:
Christian Bale has issues:

http://www.tmz.com/2009/02/02/bale-went-ballistic/



Um... David? That's the incident we've been talking about from the get go. I'm not sure what your point was in linking to it again.



I didn't link to it. I merely was quoting Frank's initial post, in toto, that started what he now pretended to be ending. This is a game he's played often, more than once with Harlan as the subject/target: dropping a bomb in Webderland and then acting innocent or appalled when people get upset.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

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robochrist
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Postby robochrist » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:56 pm

"I merely was quoting...in toto, that started what he now pretended to be ending."

I liked the way you PUT that. :lol:

Josh Olson
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Postby Josh Olson » Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:56 pm

David Loftus wrote:I didn't link to it. I merely was quoting Frank's initial post, in toto, that started what he now pretended to be ending. This is a game he's played often, more than once with Harlan as the subject/target: dropping a bomb in Webderland and then acting innocent or appalled when people get upset.


David,

My sincere apologies. I obviously mis-read your post.

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FrankChurch
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Postby FrankChurch » Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:15 pm

I thought the point was getting angry was a good emotion.

I never pretend to do anything. If people get upset that's hot shit. Part of life. Overturning the egg cart is a good thing.


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