Watchmen

For the discussion of Movies, Television, Comics, and other existential distractions.

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
Ezra Lb.
Posts: 4547
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:02 am
Location: Washington, DC

Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:20 am

While I think V for Vendetta is a more fully realized work of art there is no doubt that Watchmen is a remarkable acheivement. These are examples of a small but hopefully growing group of works to give to people who laugh at comic books.

I can't help but be leery of movie adaptations. I remember how a wonderful work like League of Extraordinary Gentlemen was turned into a steaming pile of horseshit.

Of course if you consider the success of Persepolis then there is hope.

The thought of a Concrete movie fills me with dread.

Works of art can date of course, but it might be useful to remember the oldest story in the world (a thousand years older than anything in the Bible) is about a man who learns wisdom through his grief at the death of his friend and the realization of his own mortality.

Without sounding like a Hallmark card, the human things don't change.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

User avatar
David Loftus
Posts: 3182
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Postby David Loftus » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:45 am

FrankChurch wrote:Sorry guys, I will stick to my non-fiction.



Fuck you, Frank.

Just fuck you.

Like we really needed to know that. Like the time you took to type it contributed one GODDDAMN THING to this thread.

Jesus!
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

User avatar
David Loftus
Posts: 3182
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Postby David Loftus » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:48 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:While I think V for Vendetta is a more fully realized work of art there is no doubt that Watchmen is a remarkable acheivement.



Whew!

Tough call. I love and respect 'em both.

Seems to me W has more layers than V. But that's hardly the only criterion on which to compare them.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:09 pm

That was a bit overboard.

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 10607
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Contact:

Postby Moderator » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:14 pm

FrankChurch wrote:That was a bit overboard.


Yeah, actually I'm forced to agree.

I know you're not feeling well David, but particularly for you that was pretty harsh...
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Postby robochrist » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:15 pm

V For Vendetta is more "realized" than Watchmen?

How so? I don't even know what that hell that means!

Every detail in Watchmen is worked out with intricate care. Its narrative sweep, its time shifts, its complex character development REQUIRED it. I've NEVER seen a graphic novel on this scale as WELL "realized"!

And now that I'm thinking about THAT, I'm all the more amazed by how WELL each character is drawn out in the COURSE of the 12 (I think that was the original number) issues; I mean NONE of the lead characters are left to "disintegrate".

(BTW, how cum David gets a free pass on the "W" while I get my pubes plucked by a wiseass who pushes Oliver Stones upcoming gig at me?

I see. I see.)

User avatar
David Loftus
Posts: 3182
Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2004 2:15 pm
Location: Portland, Oregon
Contact:

Postby David Loftus » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:25 pm

Of course it was harsh . . . if you measure it against this one, single instance. But I don't think Frank appreciates how much restraint it takes to continually, repeatedly pass over/ignore/privately dismiss his niggling, silly, content-less posts to an array of threads to which he has nothing of substance to contribute, and in which he apparently has no real interest, and yet insists on posting something anyway.

I was actually responding to at least two posts on two OTHER threads that I can think of offhand, this week, which I silently and patiently passed over because it is normally my practice to ignore Frank as much as possible.

Would you (that is, ANYONE) care to have me go over them in detail?

I thought not.

The person Frank reminds me of more than anyone these days is KOS -- dogmatic, self-centered, eager to show everyone else how much more intelligent and well-informed he is than anyone else within shouting distance.

No. I take that back. Eager to TELL everyone as much. If Frank made more of an effort to SHOW, rather than just tell or get off cute little potshots that have little or no substance to them, than he'd be more bearable. There are plenty of other people here who SHOW they know something, or can devise a rational argument, without tooting their horn daily.

If Frank kept to his own threads, to the topics where he actually cares about the subject matter and makes a substantive contribution, or could even ASK A GOOD QUESTION, that would be just lovely.

But what did he do here? He announced that he doesn't care about what we were discussing, and he won't bother to investigate it further. He could have simply passed over it in silence, as I routinely do with most of his posts and threads, and with many other pleasant threads started and maintained by other Webderlanders. But he had to TELL us.

That, to me, qualifies as a dis.

And I've had it with those.
War is, at first, the hope that one will be better off; next, the expectation that the other fellow will be worse off; then, the satisfaction that he isn't any better off; and, finally, the surprise at everyone's being worse off. - Karl Kraus

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Postby robochrist » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:46 pm

"The person Frank reminds me of more than anyone these days is KOS -- dogmatic, self-centered, eager to show everyone else how much more intelligent and well-informed he is than anyone else within shouting distance."

Not to digress, but I've a few words for KOS waiting in the wings. It's funny how lay people fold themselves in characteristic conceit, quick to dismiss professional researchers who spend their lives with the real numbers! It's all the more "undignified", btw, for people who consider themselves "well-informed" to dispel all logic for their manufactured faith.

"my practice to ignore Frank as much as possible."

SOMEBODY'S gotta do it!

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:05 pm

David, try to say something nice about me or to me every now and again and I will be nicer. That's how it works. I have been royally fucked over most of my life. Stories that would make your hair stand on end. You, on the other hand have had it pretty good. Be thankful, you are doing good. Most people find the pit of hell as the welcome mat.

I was bullied as a child and Harlan taught me in his writing to fight back. I rarely use actual violence, so you have the verbal jab.

Just be happy with your nice life. You will not feel Sarah Palin and her ilk like people I know will feel her. There will be deaths, there will be suicides, there will be cancer and more war. Look at it that way.

Enjoy life. I try, even when the birds peck at me.

I smile as I write this, really!

-----------

Rob, can it.

Alan Coil
Posts: 538
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2007 8:21 pm
Location: Southeast Michigan

Postby Alan Coil » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:06 pm

Amen, Brother Loftus.

Frank Church and robocrisp--separated at birth. What David said goes for robocrisp, too.

I try to have conversation, politely speak my opinion, and get attacked by robocrisp.

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 10607
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Contact:

Postby Moderator » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:50 pm

Everyone chill. Whatever it is is also bleeding into other threads.

Gonna ask nice: "Please."


'Nuffsaid???

Thank you.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Postby robochrist » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:55 pm

You guys aren't actually suggesting that I'm dogmatic and self-centered, are you?

Listen, I spent 5 years in a pow camp. :cry: :( :x :evil: :twisted:

User avatar
Duane
Posts: 1579
Joined: Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:21 pm
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Contact:

Postby Duane » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:07 pm

One of the worst features to show up on online news sources is the option to be able to add personal comments to every story. "Child drowns in bath tub -- comment on this story!!" "Death penalty proposed for Boy Scouts who refuse to help old ladies cross the street -- comment on this story!"

It doesn't matter what the story is; all you have to do is descend about a dozen comments deep before you strike Dumbass. If oil was this easy to find, we'd never have to set foot in another man's country again.

It goes back to what Harlan continually harps on: the medium's inability to distinguish the Cure For Cancer from the Tijuana Donkey Show. Which means it's up to us to do the discriminating. Except this medium hasn't been around long enough for any real laws to show up moderating how one is supposed to behave online. If this level of anarchy existed on our roadways, the car would have been banned long ago.

Within a minute, I can, using this very computer, locate the latest cutting edge research on AIDS, cancer, interplanetary travel, or Obama's shoe size. I can also get myself into so much trouble I lose my freedom, reputation and dignity. An enlightening afternoon that will provide hours of great conversation, or a perp walk out of a courtroom with a jacket over my head? Hmmm. Toss a coin and set the timer.

And since everyone is so bent out of shape about curtailing "our precious online freedoms," can't we at least agree on one thing?

The thing is this: Have some respect for this powerful, yet incredibly blunt, instrument called the Internet. I've met some great people on it, especially on this site (some of them personally). I don't think I want to casually make enemies. I don't think anyone else does, either.

And the best way to not do that is to pretend the people you are posting to are actually present in the room, because in a very real way, they are.

YMMV.

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Postby robochrist » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:19 pm

...Would you believe TEN years in a POW camp?

cynic
Posts: 2684
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 3:55 am
Location: chicago

Postby cynic » Fri Sep 12, 2008 6:31 pm

virtue is the only good

the essence of virtue is self control

play nice,m


Return to “Pop Culture”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests