Copyright vs Copywrong

For the discussion of Movies, Television, Comics, and other existential distractions.

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FinderDoug
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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FinderDoug » Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:49 pm

What does Prince's skill have to do with anything?

Who decides what has social or political importance? Who decides what constitutes "art" when the government gets involved in the business of cutting tax breaks for people that support artists? The people who thought labeling music was the way to go?

I dare you to go and post some of this drivel on the Pavilion Board.


Lori, why on earth would you cattle-prod him in that direction? Harlan needs that discussion in his sight like he needs another quad bypass.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:53 pm

I dare you to go and post some of this drivel on the Pavilion Board.


Lori, why on earth would you cattle-prod him in that direction? Harlan needs that discussion in his sight like he needs another quad bypass.[/quote

Doug

While what you say is true, don't ya think he's better at chewing out people like Frank than you, Barber and I combined?

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby diane bartels » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:04 pm

I don't know, I kinda get a kick out of you guys chewing Frank a new one. Perhaps I am an evil person.

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby Lori Koonce » Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:09 pm

diane bartels wrote:I don't know, I kinda get a kick out of you guys chewing Frank a new one. Perhaps I am an evil person.


You're not evil at all hon, just normal.

But, ya gotta admit you should use experts when ya have 'em available.

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FinderDoug » Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:23 am

don't ya think he's better at chewing out people like Frank than you, Barber and I combined?


Oh, certainly. Of course, Harlan is also a master of the low rhetoric. Quick with the "Yo momma so ugly..." retorts. Damn near rapid fire. I'll bet he was an absolute demon on the playground. He was at I-CON.

Anyway, I guess my points would be:

1) If it's a choice between Harlan putting in an hour working on a new story, or proofing a book, or prepping an audio collection, or anydamnthing related to his artistic enterprises, or putting in an hour getting wound up at Frank, I'd opt for the former as the far more valuable and productive use of his time.

2) Even Harlan chewing out Frank won't alter Frank's behavior. It never has before. He'd crack wise and keep swimming. Frank is who he is. He has little interest in honest discourse. He doesn't engage in dialogue. He wishes merely to speak, and to not agree with him leads to his presumption that we are uninformed, or ignorant, or not staying 'on focus' (whatever THAT means to someone whose arguments jump around like a seismograph during the Northridge trembler.)

Would there be satisfaction in Harlan smacking Frank? Only for a moment. We do enjoy it on some level when Harlan does such things. Maybe because Harlan isn't afraid to go there, while we're less comfortable telling total strangers that they ought to be nuked until they glow. But we've got a wonderful opportunity at direct discourse with an artist who has, in his way, touched us all. I think it's a horrible use of that blessing to align pieces in a fashion that would only cause him grief.

I'd rather see him asked a dozen intelligent questions than watch him have to take out the knives to make marvelous sushi out of what is, ultimately, inferior grade fish.

And I may have just articulated some very good reasons to go back to not concerning myself with Frank's exercises in cherry-picked facts and half-formed cogitations. Stories to write, non-fiction pieces to research, photographs to organize (casual aside to Steve Barber: you're an inspiration. You've reminded me why I like capturing life with my lens, and encouraged me to invest a little time there once again, when possible; so thank you), a wedding to plan - who has time for wrestling dodgy scholarship, half-formed thesis and unfocused rhetoric?

"Let Frank be Frank," I say. Because in the end, he's as easily consigned to the bucket marked "Irrelevant to Me" as reality television, conservative extremists, crap pop music, and the jackass that bullied me in the fourth grade who, however improbably, sent me a friend request on Facebook last year.

PLONK. Into the bucket. If I had a Staples "That was easy" button, I'd be stabbing at it like a hungry lab rat.

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:25 pm

Doug, your view is a right wing view, in fact, on this issue you are the right wing extremist. Remember, my views on this issue jibe with the founders and with mainstream people like Larry Lessig and Dean Baker. You are siding with big media, which is a conservative trope, well outside of the enlightenment tradition that puts free exchange and speech above property and money.

On this you are the rightie. You don't even want to discuss amending the current law, which is certainly a fair debate, not outside of any norm. I know you have thin skin, but dang.

--------------

Ok, Lori, walk the talk, you love the internet, go on the pavilion and tell Harlan he is wrong to think the internet is destructive? Now that I want to see. We all know you and the others love the internet, but would never venture into that hornets nest. At least I have defended the internet on the pav.

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:38 pm

A good book to peruse on the subject:

http://www.amazon.com/Against-Intellect ... 0521879280

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Feb 10, 2012 2:59 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGUV79yu ... re=related

Joe Stiglitz is also highly critical of intellectual property. He even wrote a preface to a pirated book of his! Not even I'm that radical, but Stiglitz is a nobel prize winning economist, former head of the World Bank and one of the top economists in the world.

His main point is that access to ideas, information is more important than somebody using their intellectual property to monopolise it for their own gain.

-----------

Barber, at least tell me you support the Open Source Movement?

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FinderDoug » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:19 pm

Whatever, Francis.

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FinderDoug » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:22 pm

And back to living a Frank-free life. Why did I ever stop?

Thank you, PHPBB!

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby Moderator » Fri Feb 10, 2012 3:45 pm

I believe that software developers certainly can open their code so that others may play with it, if that is what they want to do from a competitive and economic standpoint.

If, on the other had, a developer wants to keep the source closed, then that is their option.

But they get the choice, not the public at large.
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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:12 pm

Doug, you mean a fact free world.

-------------

Barber, the internet and most computer inventions were paid for by the government, the payback is that we all have the right to use other people's sources to have access to as free of a society as possible.

Your Ayn Randian view of copyright stifles innovation and lowers growth. Show the love?

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby Moderator » Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:43 pm

Frank, I rather think I understand open source pretty well.

I would strongly disagree with your assertion, a'la Al Gore, that the government paid for the R&D -- and even if it were true there would have to be a financial benefit for anyone to research and write code. Not sure where you're coming up with the philosophy that no one needs to eat or make money in this world, but with each of the positions you state I'm coming to the conclusion that no one in the private sector ought to be paid.

Lastly, please look up what Ayn Rand actually wrote. My comment that everyone has an option but ought to be protected from the forced at-gunpoint public release of their hard work, is hardly in keeping with her philosophy.
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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby Lori Koonce » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:07 pm

Frank

First of all, I agree with Harlan, the internet is a very destructive entity.

Never in any time in history has so much misinformation been given to so many so quickly. And most of those accessing this "information" either choose not to look at it critically, or do not have the ability to do so.

The places I choose on the internet for information have proven themselves to be honest and trustworthy sources. I took the time to check them out, and against other well known information sources. The rest of my time here is spent in mindlessly filling my day with something that keeps me from going totally bugfuck with boredom.

But, even I know that DAPRA and ARPA nets (from where we get the WWW) were nothing more that the governments attempts at making sure that in the event of some worldwide disaster, that governments could communicate. It was men like Marc Andessen and others who made the internet what it is today.

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Re: Copyright vs Copywrong

Postby Moderator » Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:43 pm

To take that a step further, Lori, without the Universities -- using funding from the gov -- the ARPANET would never have been founded.

The universities did the heavy design lifting along with the telecom companies (who got paid to pull those cables...).
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.


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