THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

Moderator: Moderator

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:37 pm

Don't worry, I will refrain from any knife fights.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:37 pm

Diane, we love you.

User avatar
Chuck Messer
Posts: 2089
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 9:15 pm
Location: Lakewood, Colorado

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:00 am

Holy shit. Mass shooting at the Dark Knight premier at about midnight in Aurora, Colorado. Fourteen dead, fifty wounded.

Shit.
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

User avatar
Moderator
Site Admin
Posts: 10607
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2006 12:17 pm
Contact:

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:46 am

Chuck Messer wrote:Holy shit. Mass shooting at the Dark Knight premier at about midnight in Aurora, Colorado. Fourteen dead, fifty wounded.

Shit.


Word for word.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:38 pm

Chuck, what is wrong with Colorado?

Mark Tiedemann
Posts: 2575
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 1:51 pm

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Mark Tiedemann » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:07 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Chuck, what is wrong with Colorado?


Or Alabama, or Virginia, or Florida, or....

There is no defense against nutters. You can control guns all you want, but if someone is determined to go off like this it won't matter. What is a more pertinent question is, what is wrong with our culture? (And yes, I have opinions about that.)

User avatar
FrankChurch
Posts: 16283
Joined: Wed May 28, 2003 2:19 pm

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:38 pm

In Germany police only had to shoot 38 bullets in one year!

It's our culture. America is one sick puppy.

User avatar
Ezra Lb.
Posts: 4547
Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:02 am
Location: Washington, DC

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:33 pm

Well let's not completely ignore the easy availability of high firepower weapons. In his arsenal this guy had an AR-15 which is the commercial version of the military M-16. 30 round clips. Also he had a .40 caliber Glock automatic pistol.

But if you want psycho-babble, in our culture guns have "mana". The are objects of power. They bestow this power onto anyone without them having to make any effort or attain any wisdom. They give a dick to the dickless. All that stuff about freedom and self-defense are just rationalizations.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:26 pm

Mark:There is no defense against nutters. You can control guns all you want, but if someone is determined to go off like this it won't matter. What is a more pertinent question is, what is wrong with our culture? (And yes, I have opinions about that.)


Before I saw Moore's BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE, I carried the notion that gun control was alone the answer; that, simply, too many guns in the hands of too many morons. But, as Moore himself declared, I was forced to re-examine the questions after Moore's enlightening visit to Canada: proportionately, they have as many guns and glocks among the civilian population as we do, and the shootings are nothing compared to here. The culture is, indeed, as suspect as the "looseness" of firearms. I particularly sat up as Moore cited the nature of their local news media as compared to ours: "Be scared! Lock your doors! Watch where you walk!" Americans are fed on paranoia day in and day out, and it has been such since the Revolutionary War ended. No country has exploited fear as much as this one, and today's mainstream media more than ever. It really reinforces the stupidity of our own masses, a bunch of lemmings out of a Huxley dystopia.

Bear in mind, I absolutely support gun regulation. But the problem and the solutions are far more complex. The insanity is so entrenched in our society - RELIGIOUSLY! - that it will undoubtedly take another century before wisdom is forced to open its eyes. I know it won't happen in MY lifetime.

User avatar
Chuck Messer
Posts: 2089
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 9:15 pm
Location: Lakewood, Colorado

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:01 pm

Seventy wounded, twelve dead. Some of the wounded were injured in the panic, but most were shot. The shooter called himself The Joker. Adam-Troy Castro called it on Facebook when he figured it was someone doing a fetishistic imitation of the mayhem on the screen. This is not to blame movies. It's not that. No, it's something more deeply ingrained. And I mean, come ON, thousands, thousands of rounds of ammo bought by this guy on line and there were no red flags? An AR15 and TWO Glocks and a shotgun? No red flags?

The same thing with the guns going to the drug cartels from Arizona, where their surrogates can legally buy as many as twenty guns at a time without raising an eyebrow and federal prosecutors can and will do nothing.

This has no bearing on what ails the shooter, but the NRA has us by the balls. If there had been some real goddamn controls in place, perhaps the law would not be impotent to prevent a psychopath from amassing an arsenal, or using it at a public place.

But no one can, because the NRA has us by the balls, and the only way to get them to let go is to break their fingers.

And who has the guts to to that?

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

User avatar
robochrist
Posts: 3426
Joined: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:30 pm

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby robochrist » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:34 pm

That's where the religious entrenchment comes into play: those few who have had the balls to push gun control have been invariably put down under the amassed lobby power of the NRA and millions of fools. There was never a time I wasn't offended by the speciousness of the argument, "they'll get the guns anyway!"

My own thoughts: This lunatic would not have had high-powered arms so readily via the Internet and the stores had there been restrictions; pistols and hunting rifles, however lethal, cannot wipe out a crowd fast enough. Furthermore, the limitation on the availability of guns is very effective for many different types of tragedies. I knew an individual who, one time a few years ago, wanted to shoot himself. He ran around Los Angeles looking to buy a gun or a rifle. He wanted it fast. It proved difficult, if not impossible, however, to walk in and walk out in one day. No one would sell it to him on the spot. His suicide was averted. Soon after he found help, and he never got the impulse again.

So, to say, "ah - no point in curbing the availability of guns or high powered arms - if they want 'em they'll get 'em anyway!" Too simplistic. WAY too simplistic.

User avatar
Chuck Messer
Posts: 2089
Joined: Wed May 21, 2003 9:15 pm
Location: Lakewood, Colorado

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:07 pm

I'd would like to recognise the Aurora police, who responded so quickly and saved numerous lives, not only by arresting this guy, but also driving people to the hostpital, as there just would not have been enough ambulances. Those guys did one helluva job. The police chief has been on the verge of tears every time he's been shown. Gov. Hickenlooper was so exhausted when he gave a press conference he was almost incoherent.

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

User avatar
Steve Evil
Posts: 3519
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Some Cave in Kanata
Contact:

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:15 am

Ezra Lb. wrote: the commercial version of the military M-16.


I think that's the key to the problem right there. . .

reddragon70
Posts: 516
Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2008 5:06 am

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby reddragon70 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:30 am

Well I entered the pub quiz at my local last night. On my own, versus teams of 4 and 5. Total number of teams was about 17. I won. On my own.

I am rather proud of that. The only thing is that the prize was a £50 gift voucher for a local Italian bistro. Very nice and all, but for me completely useless. I have no-one to take with me. As I am going to be getting a divorce and all. So I gave the voucher to one of the bar staff. Seemed like the bets thing to do, at least they may be able to use it.

User avatar
Steve Evil
Posts: 3519
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 3:22 pm
Location: Some Cave in Kanata
Contact:

Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Steve Evil » Sat Jul 21, 2012 4:38 am

robochrist wrote:
"Be scared! Lock your doors! Watch where you walk!" Americans are fed on paranoia day in and day out, and it has been such since the Revolutionary War ended. No country has exploited fear as much as this one, and today's mainstream media more than ever.


A side note: look at contemporary horror films.

No, I don't mean that the horrendous acts of violence on screen will make sane people immitate them (though some insane people might). Rather, the underlying theme of such films: something unspeakably awful can happen to you at any minute. You can be kidnapped and tortured by psychopaths anywhere you go. In your home, in the streets, in the woods, foreign countries. Anywhere you go, you are unsafe. A symptom of the paranoia?

Or consider all the stories of zombie apocalypse that have come out in the last decade: "at any time, civilization can collapse and you will need to turn your home into an armed fortress". There are people who take this scenerio so seriously that they go out into the woods and rehearse it.

Now, while it's deeply unfashionable to suggest that life could ever immitate art in these instances, if one's fears are constantly constantly reinforced by the fictions one feeds oneself, how could this not eventually leak out into real life, and into the wider culture?


Return to “General”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests