Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:40 am

i feel so warm and fuzzy inside.
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby RocRizzo » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:03 am

Barber wrote:Odd. I've checked a variety of resources and have to believe SOMEbody is tracking vetos by year or Presidency, but damned if I can find it.

Anybody? My guess, of course, is that the massive majority of US vetos relate to Israel, but the stats are elusive.


Wikipedia has a list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... ial_vetoes
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:42 am

Chuck Messer wrote:Here is a clip that may explain my Chance (Chauncey) comment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYeVQzTVyLk


Chuck

Anyone who can't recognize a nod to one of the most brilliant movies in the past century or so, really doesn't deserve an explanation IMNSHO!!!

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 01, 2011 11:52 am

RocRizzo wrote:
Barber wrote:Odd. I've checked a variety of resources and have to believe SOMEbody is tracking vetos by year or Presidency, but damned if I can find it.

Anybody? My guess, of course, is that the massive majority of US vetos relate to Israel, but the stats are elusive.


Wikipedia has a list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... ial_vetoes



Thanks Roc -- but it's Security Council vetos I was referencing.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:12 pm

I'm waiting for Barber's positive spin on all our vetos. Giggle.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:13 pm

Barber wrote:
RocRizzo wrote:
Barber wrote:Odd. I've checked a variety of resources and have to believe SOMEbody is tracking vetos by year or Presidency, but damned if I can find it.

Anybody? My guess, of course, is that the massive majority of US vetos relate to Israel, but the stats are elusive.


Wikipedia has a list here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... ial_vetoes



Thanks Roc -- but it's Security Council vetos I was referencing.


Ya cold have said something about that before we all scrambled off to find you an answer!

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:24 pm

*ahem*

(From Feb 19th)

Barber wrote:Not quite, though we've been on quite the run since 1986...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UNSC_veto.svg

I'd be fascinated to find the statistics for each of the different Presidencies...


Plus, the sentence "Anybody? My guess, of course, is that the massive majority of US vetos relate to Israel, but the stats are elusive" doesn't make a whole lot of sense if the topic are Presidential vetoes of Congressional legislation...

Just sayin'
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 01, 2011 2:38 pm

i don't get it. :oops:
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:03 pm

Sorry Mike.

Frank posted a note regarding the US' number of vetoes in the UN Security Council.

I posted that I wondered what the breakdown was by US Administrations -- and likewise noted that most of our vetoes had to do with Israel.

Others saw the word "veto" and assumed we were conversing about Presidential vetoes of Congressional lawmaking.

Frank above was teasing me about spinning the news supporting US vetoes -- but it will be a long time until he sees such a comment from me.

Up to speed?
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 01, 2011 5:21 pm

yep, thanks steve,
the un site will give you the info you need. there's a ton of stuff there.
follow your bliss,mike

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:04 pm

Barber, which President has the most vetos?

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 01, 2011 6:05 pm

According to the late Chalmer's Johnson the reason China was able to gull the peasants with Communism was with jingoistic nationalism. I smell a trend. Tea stained.

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:30 am

FrankChurch wrote:Barber, which President has the most vetos?

here francis,
http://www.un.org/Depts/dhl/resguide/scvote.htm
maybe this link will work for you.
follow your nose through the "veto" links
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:05 pm

Thanks Mike. I only went back to 1970, but my "findings".

From 1970 to 2004 the United States issued 72 vetoes in the UN Security Council, far and away the leader of such actions. Of the vetoes, an astounding 36 -- 50% exactly -- have been to vote down an action against Israel regarding its relations with its Middle East neighbors (condemnations of Israeli actions, mostly), or the Palestinian question (again, almost entirely condemnations).

Broken down by Presidential administration it goes like this:

Nixon 9 (1970-1974)
Ford 7 (1975-1976)
Carter 4 (1977-1980)
Reagan 35 (1981-1988)
Bush 1 7 (1989-1992)
Clinton 3 (1992-2000)
Bush 2 7 (2001-2004)

Which pretty much bears up my suppositions about root cause of the vetoes and the administrations likeliest to use them.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:37 pm

one aspect of the info i haven't extracted, that may have *considerable* signifigance, is that many vetos represented multiple reworkings of an initial proposal to deal with one specific issue (conflict) at hand.

or did you already account for that?

the transcripts available (at least the few i looked at) might appear as quite the drama.

you may have made note of same on televised congressional procceedings. they have often brought to mind "life is a stage", and not in a good way.
follow your bliss,mike


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