THE PAVILION ANNEX

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 15, 2011 9:11 am

Ezra Lb. wrote:Fully fund the arts with the government.

Yes but first explain to a truck driver or a fry cook in Des Moines why his/her taxes should go to support a mime troupe in Washington DC that he/she will never see even if they were interested in the first place?

And then you can explain to me why my taxes should go to partially subsidize a new effing football stadium for a team that is part of a multi-billion dollar industry when I couldn't care less?

:?



I suppose it's the same logic as my funding roads in Wisconsin, or bridges in Alaska. Or, for that matter, anything at all in Iowa. Californians annually send some $60B more to the Federal budget than we get back in kind. Tell the truck driver in Des Moines that until their state pays more in taxes than they take in as federal funding, they know what they can do with it.

As far as I'm concerned, all the conservatives in the net debtor states ought to start with cutting expenses in their own back yards, rather than make grandstand disclaimers about funding other parts of the country that more than pay our own way.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby markabaddon » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:45 am

Chuck, while the author did provide several updates to the reactor meltdown(s) in Japan, I would be curious to see what comments he would have now, as that situation continues to worsen. While it is true that there has not been a nuclear explosion, nor is one possible, the likelihood of severe radiation contamination, widespread health issues, and numerous fatalities related to this reactor clusterfuck grows by the minute. Chernobyl was in a fairly isolated area, this plant is only 138 miles from Tokyo. I am watching this story very carefully, but even so every time I click on a related link, the news gets worse.

On taxes going to support programs or ideologies you don't support, allow me to propose a solution: vote! I sure as hell did not support my tax dollars going towards an unjust and illegal war in Iraq but there was not a fucking thing I could do about it while Bush was in office with the most enabling Congress in history alongside him. That started changing in 2006 and continued in 2008. In 2010, the worm has turned again.

However, I do believe that 2012 will see another reversal. with Wisconsin being the canary in the coal mine. One of the ways the Repubs were able to win in states like WI was because of defections from moderates or liberals. For example, around 30% of families with a union member voted Republican in 2010 within WI. Expect that number to drop precipitously in 2012, with a similar result expected in OH. Simply put, the Repubs over-reached on their union busting tactics and will pay a heavy price, especially if the Tea Partiers continue to split the brand in two
Governments, if they endure, always tend increasingly toward aristrocratic forms. No gov't in history has been known to evade this pattern. And as the aristocracy develops, gov't tends more and mroe to act exclusively in the interests of the ruling class

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:13 pm

Without NPR you wouldn't get stories like this one:

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/03/134168714 ... ve-prisons

My main complaint is they don't do more stories like this, but that's another matter.

Hello Mark.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:53 pm

Barber wrote: Californians annually send some $60B more to the Federal budget than we get back in kind. Tell the truck driver in Des Moines that until their state pays more in taxes than they take in as federal funding, they know what they can do with it.

As far as I'm concerned, all the conservatives in the net debtor states ought to start with cutting expenses in their own back yards, rather than make grandstand disclaimers about funding other parts of the country that more than pay our own way.
hi steve,
how's that secession movement going?
have you printed up the pamphlets yet?
i haven't looked at it yet , but this could lead to a laugh riot. :lol:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U. ... _proposals

no need to wait for the san andreas fault to let loose!
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:07 pm

Now the radiation thing is getting weird. Apparently there was a fake news item about the spread of radiation beyond Japan that has freaked out a bunch of folks in other Asian countries. And we're hearing confusing news. More explosions and yet the radiation levels are falling? Kinda kills your enthusiasm for nuclear power huh? I mean who was more advanced than the Japanese? Of course if they weren't as advanced how many more people would be dead?

******

I am not opposed to public funding of the arts. My hypothetical trucker does have a question that needs to be answered though and not just dismissed as a rube.

*****

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/42087827/ns ... sion_2012/

Here's some feedback Mr President. I will vote for you because there's nowhere else to go. But fuck you for being such a coward.
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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:08 pm

FrankChurch wrote:Without NPR you wouldn't get stories like this one:
http://www.npr.org/2011/03/03/134168714 ... ve-prisons
and of course your secrect love:
http://www.npr.org/search/index.php?sea ... t=ayn+rand

creator of The Fountainhead
did Mr. Ellison mention something about libertarians?
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:23 pm

Ezra Lb. wrote:Now the radiation thing is getting weird. Apparently there was a fake news item .
"Now"?
"Was"?

i was brought to the Ringling Bros. Barnum and Bailey Circus as a child.

i don't recall if there were warm pretzels.
if there were; would they qualify as "bread"?

life is a risky buisness.
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:30 pm

Actually, Mike, the movement got some serious tractions after the 2004 elections, but seems to have waned after the election of a Democratic Congress and President Obama. You see, that would be the natural progression of what you now seem to feel is laughable. Had the 2008 election gone differently you would see a great deal more angst in the Golden State (and others).

On the other hand, the South seems ready to re-secede. And, as they said about us in 2004, I'd be only partially upset. Losing New Orleans and Key West would hurt, but heck, we'd be done with Oklahoma.

http://www.clearlyokc.com/?p=140
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:38 pm

so are you ready to join oklahoma ?
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby FrankChurch » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:11 pm

To be fair secession is not just a right wing idea, Vermont also has secession movements, from the far left--anarchists, marxists, hardcore progressives. They want Vermont to be made a seperate, liberal state.

You could cut Massachusetts into two parts--north and south, or even cut Boston in half, let the southies live in right wing heaven.

Maine has 'choppers' as well. I may have to rethink it.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Moderator » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:29 pm

cynic wrote:so are you ready to join oklahoma ?


How do you draw a connection between the two Polar opposites? Fundamentally it would be precisely the wrong effect if California were to secede with a state we cannot seem to agree with on any issues.

Give us Oregon and Washington and Southern Nevada and we're good. Otherwise...
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 15, 2011 5:43 pm

Barber wrote:
cynic wrote:so are you ready to join oklahoma ?

How do you draw a connection between the two Polar opposites?
secession.
take your ball and go home.
Barber wrote: a state we cannot seem to agree with on any issues.

californians (and the feds in general) have been so welcoming to hispanic immigrants.
you remember, of course, m. palin's inspirational vision of the welcoming arms of the california (U.S.) border guard?
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Chuck Messer » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:16 pm

I mean who was more advanced than the Japanese? Of course if they weren't as advanced how many more people would be dead?


The Japanese may be advanced, but several of the plants are as much as forty years old. One was going to be mothballed shortly when the quake hit. I think perhaps we should have a look at some of our older plants as well.

I believe the nuclear power issue should be discussed soberly, but not by simply ramming through new power plants on one hand, or to give in to hysteria and hybperbole on the other. Unfortunately, our vaunted press brings home the bacon by scaring the living bejesus out of us. There was a brief period where news reporting meant reporting the news. Now we're back to good old fashioned yellow journalism where we get to see all of Charlie Sheen's meltdown and people end up getting fired because of overhyped, unsubstantiated stories based on deceptively edited videos.

Chuck
Some people are wedded to their ideology the way nuns are wed to God.

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby cynic » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:29 pm

Barber wrote: Give us Oregon and Washington and Southern Nevada and we're good. Otherwise...
sorry.
nothing of nevada.
Tahoe is ours.
no water for you .
Oregon and Washington may be a nuclear wasteland soon enough, even if they were to back a lame, fiscally irresponsible duck.
sorry. :cry:
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: THE PAVILION ANNEX

Postby Ezra Lb. » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:57 pm

You fellows are just joshing but you know we really do live in two countries.
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter


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