Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

General discussions of interest to readers and fans of Harlan Ellison.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 10, 2011 11:13 am

This is why we needed punk rock, to tell corporate America to quit dumbing down our culture.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 10, 2011 11:13 am

And, remember, if you stance is that making money is important, than artists who do it for the love of the art are worthless, right?

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FinderDoug
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Tue May 10, 2011 11:26 am

I may have to hide out. I could go to Dougs house


When Prince goes disco, you could. I'd toss you to the lions in a hot second, smile the entire time, and have the temerity to license a toy line based on my narrative of entire event.

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 10, 2011 12:39 pm

I Wanna Be Your Lover is disco.

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FinderDoug
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FinderDoug » Tue May 10, 2011 1:29 pm

Glad you think so. But does any CREDIBLE source consider "I Wanna Be Your Lover" disco? (Please note that for the purposes of 'credible', Noam Chomsky has no dog in this hunt, and Billboard's Dance Music/Club Play Singles chart is different from the Billboard Disco Action chart of the same era.)

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 10, 2011 1:39 pm

Dance music is played in a discoteque. I Wanna Be Your Lover is dance music. Ergo, it is disco. Funky pop as well.

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Tue May 10, 2011 1:50 pm

follow your bliss,mike

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Tue May 10, 2011 2:22 pm

Better do this before Ezra gloats and posts it. Hitchens slags my Chomskers:

http://www.slate.com/id/2293541/

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Lori Koonce
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Lori Koonce » Wed May 11, 2011 1:41 pm

FrankChurch wrote:And, remember, if you stance is that making money is important, than artists who do it for the love of the art are worthless, right?


Frank

This is one of the problems with the black and white thinking you seem to espouse. It doesn't allow for any shade of grey.

Now, if this was a perfect world, anyone who had a desire to be creative could find a patron, and if not that at least a way to make money separate from their art. But as you well know this is far from a perfect world. So, the artists of this world have to sell their work in order to live.

And because my BFF is attempting to start a creative business, I can tell you it's far from easy. He lives in a resident hotel, dosen't do much more than take his pictures and process them as he sees fit. Trust me, I live pretty much the same way, and I'll tell ya it's hell.

So, if a person is willing to put in the time, sweat and creative energy to produce a work of art, then by what right to you have to deprive them of the living they are trying to get?

I'm almost certain that Barber and all the others around here who have "day jobs" would love to give them up and devote themselves to whatever creative endeavor they want to pursue. But landlords, grocery stores and the like really don't understand "I'm sorry I didn't sell a damned thing this month either, can I have one more moth free?"

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Wed May 11, 2011 1:48 pm

Lori, ah, that's not even what I meant.

I'm miffed at the fact that some writer makes ten million a book while a great writer has to have a second job, which restricts his talent taking full flower. People tend to read what the pr firms push on them.

You look at a toothpaste commercial, it's never about how good the toothpaste is, but how it may get you laid or how some pretty girl holds the brush at a certain angle.

Back in the day advertising just mentioned what the product did, now they lie, using propaganda, not mentioning the externalities of the product, etc.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Wed May 11, 2011 2:34 pm

FrankChurch wrote:You look at a toothpaste commercial, it's never about how good the toothpaste is, but how it may get you laid or how some pretty girl holds the brush at a certain angle.


But Frank that's what women look for in a man. The right toothpaste. And I certainly am attracted to a woman that holds the...uh...brush at the right angle!

:D
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

cynic
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby cynic » Wed May 11, 2011 2:44 pm

yeah boy,
those good old days of real honest to gosh full disclosure snake oil salesmen! :lol:
Winnebago Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zSWUWPx2VeQ
follow your bliss,mike

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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Moderator » Wed May 11, 2011 2:53 pm

FrankChurch wrote:And, remember, if you stance is that making money is important, than artists who do it for the love of the art are worthless, right?


Well, actually, no. But they themselves are assigning their art that status. If I constantly give my stuff away, then it is essentially worthless to me. Bands who perform for free are not professionals, for instance. They are, by definition, amateurs.

I've given some of my work away. Cris has sent out promotional CDs. But both also charge for our services. We both create our art for the pleasure and for the personal reward. We charge for its consumption because that is the highest compliment that can be bestowed -- that someone else likes it well enough to spend their money to reward you.

By giving it away for free, I'm telling you, the audience, that it is worthless to me -- so you ought to regard it as such yourself.

You might hear a song over the radio. You might see my pictures on FB. But if you really want to own our work, you have to pay for it. Just like Harlan, just like ATC. And just like Rowling.

She's not being paid the money in a vacuum. She put no gun to a consumer's head and forced them to buy her works. She's being paid the money because it's worth that much to others to read her books, and to see them on the big screen.

Artistically, does Unca Harlan deserve to earn just as much? Yeah. Probably more. But in the real world, at some point the consumers determine the worth of any form of art.


Blame the evil corporations and businesspeople all you like, but if nobody bought her books she'd be an unknown asterisk in the history of publishing.
- I love to find adventure. All I need is a change of clothes, my Nikon, an open mind and a strong cup of coffee.

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Ezra Lb.
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby Ezra Lb. » Thu May 12, 2011 7:59 am

Occasionally when I'm feeling masochistic I listen to the News talk shows on Sundays when they're rebroadcast on CSPAN radio. Last Sunday they were filled with former Bush admin folks trying to grab some of the glory for the Osama hit. Never mind that Bush dismantled the security team going after Bin Laden (Obama restored it when he came into office). The absolute nadir of the spectacle was hearing Lynne Chaney defend the use of torture, oh sorry "enhanced interrogation methods", because they led us to Osama.

So I was interested to read an Opinion piece in today's WashPost about torture from John McCain.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/ ... ml?hpid=z2

I had little respect left for him after the election but to his credit he has been a consistent critic of using torture on detainees. I guess experiencing it yourself kinda sticks with you, huh?
“We must not always talk in the marketplace,” Hester Prynne said, “of what happens to us in the forest.”
-Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter

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FrankChurch
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Re: Frank Church's news corner, the sequel.

Postby FrankChurch » Thu May 12, 2011 12:25 pm

I may surprise you guys, but I am a bit miffed at Tariq Ali for saying that taking out Bin Ladin was terrorism. I have real problems with the tactics that Obama employed but I am not that sad about Osama being cold. When our side uses that kind of loaded language we lose people who might be interested in our anti-war views.

Our side just doesn't have the same free speech as their side so we have to think before we speak.

I hear laughter. lol


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