The new edition of The Essential Ellison is scheduled to be out in November. It will be $24.95 for the paperback and
$34.95 for the hardcover. It will be 1200 pages. There are 16 stories that weren't included in the first edition.
The winners of this year's Audies were announced on friday
including this:
Audiobook Adapted from Another Medium:
"The Dybbuk" by S. Ansky, read by Edward Asner, Theodor Bikel, Harlan Ellison, Marian Mercer, Kristoffer Tabori and Carl Reiner; (NewStar Media Inc.)
It was produced by Yuri Rasovsky who does Beyond 2000.
More info is at
http://www.irasov.com/dybbuk.htm
Unfortunately, NewStar Media, the parent company of Dove
Audio is having major financial problems. They were scheduled to be at Book Expo, but I couldn't find their booth.
Anyone know of any appearances by HE in the near future? Some of the info here seems a bit, er, um, out of date.
UPDATE on Strange Attraction. Rec'd e-mail from publisher, who clarified that HE only wrote the introduction, not a short story. However, he does sign both editions of the book. Book due end of June. If interested, call him at 703-222-9387, to order a copy.
I must be on a roll. The Morpheus Int'al site indicates the 50 year retrospective is due the end of 2000, with over 200 additional pages. They have a photo of HE w/Terry D. reviewing documents. The hard cover of HE's & Yerka's collaboration is still available for $50. Seems reasonable. The ltd. is $175. Ouch.
Infoman- Followed your lead and went to the publisher's site. They do mention HE as a short story contributor, but list no story. There is a ltd. ed. for $75 (signed by all contrib.) and a deluxe for over $200.
Infoman-Found info. at sfsite.com
CHARLIE: I saw a review of STRANGE ATTACTION(S) in Publishers Weekly, but it only mentioned an introduction by Ellison -- not a short story. Where'd you get your info from (if it's from a publisher's website, it may be correct).
There's an Ed Kramer anthology due out in the summer called Strange Attraction, which promises a new (?) HE story, along with others, centered around a Ferris Wheel. Anyone have an idea what the story is?
Dove Audio is offering Harlan's The Voice From the Edge, Vol. 1: I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream at(45% off): $13.75
Retail Price: $25.00
http://www.audiouniverse.com/BookTemplate.asp?BookID=0787122661
I am trying to locate someone who has an audio tape of Harlan's appearance on KGO 810 AM radio, on the Shann Nix show, taped or aired around 09/03/97. If anyone can help me with this I'll make it worth your while.
Thanks,
Shane
Damn! I **HATE** losing track of where my margins are supposed
to be!
Wow -- the very air abounds in novels! ALEX: Glad to hear you
finished the initial siege; good luck with finding an agent for
it. I'm told that deals with the Prince of Darkness are helpful
in that area. I'm told also that dealing withthe Prince of
Darkness is almost like dealing with an agent in itself.
PETER: Yes, there does seem to be some jiggery-pokery going on
with KQED's scheduling of "Beyond 2000." The premier episode
was supposed to be the Heinlein story, but we got the LeGuin
instead. No problem with the story itself, but it is a nuisance
when you're recording them and marking the tapes in advance. I
have no idea whether it's KQED's doing, or if that's just the order in which they get the shows. Personally, I'm just grate-
ful that the Bay Area gets 'em at all.
In case anyone's interested, I'm in the home stretch on my own
novel. Then there'll be the probably painfully necessary
rewrite. At this stage, I worry more about getting them written,
than about getting representation for them.
Lately, that hasn't been so challenging, per se. With the move,
however, I have too many distractions to work on it, and don't dare start anything new. I *want* to write; I feel the
inspiration; but I can't give it the time it rates, right now.
It's awful frustrating.
Oh, yes -- the move. Did I mention I'm about to move to LA? No,
not Louisiana, but the City of Angeles! Who knows, maybe I'll
finally be able to get that screen-writing thing going. Let's
none of us hold our breath, though. Although Fox has announced
an anthology show (e.g., Twilight Zone, Outer Limits, Night
Gallery) called "Night Visions" (sound familiar?) for the fall,
and I must admit, I have a stack of ideas that might make it
through the teevee quality sieve.
Well, that's it for me. I'll be busy packing this week, then
who knows when I'll get to a computer terminal again. So be
good while I'm gone -- "I will turn this site around and we will
go right back!" Who knows what evil lurks in the heart of the
web? The Shadow -- and Doc. (Thanks for noticing, Finder. Just
trying to be a force for good in the web.)
Muchas Smoochas, Doc
I'm trying to track down a story, and if anyone can tell me the title (and if Harlan did or did not write it, and if the latter, who did), I'd be most appreciative. Basically, the story deals with a young fellow who goes to see a distant uncle in Scotland. It turns out that this guy is keeping a gold sea-chariot for some god, and the Loch Ness monsters are used to pull the chariot. The uncle asks the nephew to take over the reins (pun intended) because he is dying. If this rings a bell to anyone, could you please send me an email? I'd be most appreciative.
REGARDING the movie mentioned below: I recently heard (at the WHC 2000) that the director mentioned below is supposedly mulling over a big-screen version of DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND -- which would explain the copyright problems.
There is an interview with Harlan at
http://www.audiobookcafe.com/frankdet.cfm?f_id=13
harry has an email from David Twohy who directed
Pitch Black
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=6022
it says the second movie he is doing as part of a 3 pic
deal with miramax is:
After that, I'll shoot a Harlan Ellison piece that he'll script for me.
Classic science fiction, towering ideas, terrific jeopardy -- it's a fast
ball right down the center of the plate. Can't name the title just yet, as
we're just now in negotiations and the rights are complicated. But stand by.
This one'll be a beaut.
A quick update: I sent out the query/synopsis/sample chapters of my novel to a high-powered agent--one who reps a lot of really good sf/f writers--as the Post Office was closing on Monday.
Today (Sunday) I get an e-mail at one p.m.:
"Dear Mr. Berman,
Thanks for your letter of the 10th. This is a pretty good letter and you do make the novel sound
interesting, but unfortunately we're swamped with reading, and with fantasy projects, and really aren't
open to new submissions right now except from established writers.
Good luck, and all best wishes,
"
Kinda weirdly heartwarming that he'd reply at such a non-business hour, but I dunno. It is, after all, still a rejection.
So tomorrow, I go research and decide which of the NEXT few high-powered agents (I am, admittedly, shooting for the moon--and I hope that, unlike Werner von Braun, I don't hit London in the process) I'm going to submit to THIS week.
Not Harlan-related, but there you are ...
Hmm.
One thing I note--except for perhaps "Glowworm", I don't think I've seen Harlan talk much about his stories being rejected.
Anyone want to correct me on this?
My wife and I were sitting having coffee this morning. (Sunday). And, I got this far away look in my eye's and she asked me. "What are you thinking about Hon?"
"I use to always start my Sunday mornings with the SciFi Buzz," I said. "I miss Harlan's commentaries."
She looked up and said "is he still alive?"
Just thought I would share that.
THNX. Gary Cloud.
Jeez,Charlie,I thought Pokemon was the little red pony that hung around with Gumbymon.
Speaking of Jokes, (for those of you w/kids), what do you call a Jamaican proctologist? (Pokemon) Yes yes, 20 lashes.
Just a heads-up - Harlan's Commentary #8 (titled "Jokes") is up at Galaxy Online. Can't tell you how it is, since I can't get Windows Media Player to recognize its own file format. Go figure.
I ment Charlie and PETER. Sorry.
Charlie & Alex: I'm sorry that I wasn't clearer. Harlan was awarded the Grand Master for the World Horror Convention. Horror Writers of America award the Bram Stoker Awards. I wasn't referring to the Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America when I was speaking of the Grand Master Award.
Best,
Shane
... er. Actually, Brian Aldiss got the Grandmaster award (were talking sfwa here, right?). Harlan was awarded for I HAVE NO MOUTH on audio but that was an HWA Stoker award, which is the only award I know of given out on the 13th. I don't think HWA has anything as like (or as controversial) as the Grandmaster award.
Alex--- I was working on a novel, and getting quite far into it when life caught up with me and the book died. Oh well. I've still been writing, but now with summer approaching I'm gearing up for my annual game of manuscript boomerang toss. I'm going to toss out several stories I've spent the year working on and seeing a) which ones bounce back fastest b) which ones bounce back hardest c) if any are actually caught by the editors I send them to.
---Peter
furor scribendi
Charlie: No, it was Harlan. The presentation was made on 05/12/00 after 9:00 P.M., following the WHC Story Contest and the IHG Awards. He didn't actually receive his award until the Bram Stoker Awards Banquet on Saturday 05/13/00 07:30-10:00 P.M.
Best,
Shane
Shane- the site isn't closed, however, I don't think the article is posted. You can order a copy of the magazine for about 4 or 5 bucks. Go to their web page sfwa.org. I thought Brian Aldiss got the grandmaster?
CHARLIE: Is the SFWA area a closed website? Is Harlan's article available to be read by the Internet community-at-large?
BTY, Harlan was also given the Grandmaster award.
Best,
Shane
Shane- I wasn't there. Read about it on the SFWA news web page, of all ironic places. Also, speaking of irony & SFWA, HE wrote an article for their magazine on the 50th Anniv. of F&SF. A great little article entitled Dostoevsky Never Wrote For Tony (Boucher), either, So Get On With Your Life.
Charlie: Speaking of "i have no mouth and i must scream", I was standing nearby when Harlan was signing a copy of the tape and the recipient mentioned that H.E. was nominated for the Bram Stoker. Harlan turned to Susan and said, "I am?" Susan confirmed that he was nominated and he replied, "Hot Damn!"
Were you at the awards ceremony?
Modern Literature Unabridged
The Voice from the Edge, Vol. 1
"i have no mouth, and i must scream"
"Laugh Track"
"Grail"
"'Repent, Harlequin!' said the Ticktockman"
"The Very Last Day of a Good Woman"
"The Time of the Eye"
"Paladin of the Lost Hour"
"The Lingering Scent of Woodsmoke"
"A Boy and His Dog"
$25.00 ($30.00 Canada)
Total playing time: Approx. 6 Hours
Dove Audio/New Star
8955 Beverly Boulevard
Los Angeles, CA 90048
Four Audio Cassettes
HE won a Bram Stoker for the IHNMAIMS audio tapes.
Oh Alex! You wonder where the rabid fanatics come from? Well, without in any way meaning to restart the conversation on religion that I mangled so badly previously, this relates to a theory of mine. I think that humans are hard wired for belief. Not neccessarily in a deity mind you, but something about which they can be passionate and have faith in. Some people believe passionately in their own destinies (which is where I think most politicians come from. . . ), some people believe in some great cause and put all their energies into that. But I think that for the vast unwashed masses, wandering rootless far from the church or synagogues of their youth, being a fan (as in FANATIC) of something fills that void. Personally, no matter how much I admire/enjoy the works of a writer or artist of any type, I have a certain amount of distaste for being identified as a "fan" for that very reason. I refuse to be fanatic about anything. As to why some writers inspire more of this than other writers - look to the adolescent psyche of the fanatic. I don't know all the writers you list, but if they're like Octavia Butler, she writes wonderful fascinating stories, but to my knowledge, she hasn't created a "universe." Someplace where a reader can go that seems real and full and independent. Harlan has a very strong public persona. A person with a juvenile/underdeveloped personality will often be attracted to someone with a strong personality. Face it. It's much easier to find somebody to emulate than it is to do all the work of figuring out your own opinions and ethics, etc.
Well, ok, that doesn't seem to be true for all people - some of us are just naturally gifted with an over abundance of opinions!
Thanks, Maggie--and Large lumbering luck back atcha!
Thanks as well, Peter--but don't I remember you being close to completion on your own novel? Whass gwan on widdat, huh?
In all honesty, I really don't expect this agent to take me on--see, I'm shooting for the moon; this agent is probably the second-best around who takes sf/f (Richard Curtis, sadly, is taking NO unpublished writers). The next few I plan to query if this one doesn't bite are also way, way up there in my list.
Oh, I'm sure that if I shot low to begin with, I'd get a passable agent, but, as I used to instruct my callers back when I ran fundraising centers, "If you don't ask, you don't get!"
Okay. Harlan-type stuff.
It occurs to me that Harlan is, like, say, Ayn Rand (and won't he just hate me for that comparison), a writer who has both a rabid following (what, us fanatical? ) as well as a large cadre of people who absolutely despise anything he does or writes.
Now, Harlan is a pretty confrontational guy, both in personal legend and in his writing (yes; he's a widdle puppy dog in person. I know. Most, however, just know Harlan Hellraiser), so that's easily understandable.
But what about others who inspire such fanatical devotion? I know, through my sister, that fans of Dorothy Sayers are as nutsoid about Lord Peter Wimsey and Harriet Vane (often overlooking the amazing work Sayers did in translationg and discussing the classics) as that guy who staked out the theater 'round the corner for two months--dressed as a Jawa.
Likewise Vorkosiganians, the fans of Lois McMaster Bujold and her books about Miles, Cordelia, and the rest.
I can't say much about Ms. Sayers, but Ms. Bujold is an absolute doll. I don't know what, aside from DAMN good writing, she can inspire such fanaticism.
Then there are the Pernians after McCaffrey, the Thomas Covenanters after Donaldson, the fans of Anne Rice, and so on.
Just what inspires readers to so closely follow the lives of their favorite characters and of those who write them?
It can't be infamy and notoriety--witness Bujold and Sayers. Nor can it simply be through the grace of good writing (witness Rice and Donaldson)--if so, there would be packs of groupies following Lawrence Block, Donald E. Westlake, Octavia Butler, Connie Willis, Mario Vargas Llosa, and such wherever they go.
So what is it?
Huh?
Huh?
05/15/00 12:21 MST
I got back from World Horror Con Ten and want to tell you folks that Harlan was the star of the convention! I hope to have comments worth reading soon, but let it be known that H.E. was all that AND a bag of chips.
Later,
Shane
Hey Alex, good luck there. Keep us informed on your progress (even if it isn't Harlan related) 'cause I for sure want to be one of the first people in line to buy your book. Again, good luck.
---Peter
furor scribendi
Alex!!
Oh, GOOD LUCK!! I sent off a very small piece to one of the local papers last week, so I'm wishing you LOTS of LUCK!!
I realize that this isn't really Harlan-related, but ...
Wish me luck, people. In about twelve hours, I send out the query letter, synopsis, and first fifty-odd manuscript pages of my novel to an agent in the hope that he might actually like it.
(Oh, and Happy Mother's Day to those for whom it applies!)
Okay, I got an email from someone who wasn’t familiar with installment 28 of THE HARLAN ELLISON HORNBOOK (to which I made reference to in an earlier posting, about a week ago), and they wanted to know what I meant by “personal ambience.” So I went and dug up my fire-damaged copy of THE HORNBOOK (Penzler Books, NewYork: 1990), and re-read installment 28. Good installment. Hadn’t read it for awhile. Did me good. A hell of a lot better than either of my previous postings. I didn’t realize how close to repetitious my words were of HE’s words, but that’s just evidence of two things. First of all, HE words for me have played a constructive role in the development of certain thoughts. And secondly, I may have repeated some of HE’s sentiments because they are similar to my own and because NOBODY ever listens to you when you have someone important to say, so most people (who have something important to say) end up spending a large chunk of their time and energy repeating themselves anyway. That’s just the way it is as far as I can tell. Anyhow, what you’re reading right now may not stay on the board for very long, because it might edge close to copyright infringement or something along those lines---because the next block of words you’re going to read are all HE’s, written in 1973, titled “A Rare, Kindly Thought,” and collected in the 1990 edition of the HORNBOOK, copyrighted by the Kilimanjaro Corporation---installment 28. But perhaps Rick and HE will let it stay; we’ll see. This is the heavily condensed version, so I recommend that anyone interested in reading the full version track down the Edgeworks edition of the HORNBOOK, or just order the original from the HERC. In this installment, HE says better what I tried to say in my previous two postings---and I think most of you will probably appreciate it more. It certianly seems relevant to some events which of have popped up around here recently...
Harlan says:
Waxing philosophical is not one of my favourite pastimes. Ever since I was let down by Eric Hoffer, I’ve realized virtually any clown with a sesquipedalian command of the English language can write a book of “philosophy” and get a following of dregs to chant his or her brilliance to the academic skies. Look at the Skinnerians. Saddening, really, how easy it is to dupe a large contingent of lames and wearies, get them to accept a “philosophy of life” *in toto*. The no-neck nits who followed Senator Joseph McCarthy into the witch-burning area... all the poor bastards who are into Jesus Freakism because they can’t face the world as it really is and haven’t the stamina to change it for the better... believers in Atlantis, flying saucers, reincarnation, Catholics who clap their hands in adolescent delight at the Reaffirmation of the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility... and all the phonies who went from dope to Zen to the Maharishi to Baba Ram Dass to macrobiotic dining to astrology and don’t know where their next saviour is coming from. All of them, the poor fuckers, washed here and there like flotsam on the inexorable tide of Life... One guy even wrote *me* a letter telling me I had The Word and he wanted to be my Follower. Sooner would I have the clap for a thousand years than stalk about spouting The Word. On him I wish a plague of toads in his bathroom... However, I did have an idle thought the other day, which I guess comes under the heading of “philosophy”... Those we call “phonies” may not, in fact, be phonies at all. They may merely be poor suckers who don’t know who they are. They may not be trying to “put on airs” but may simply be lost souls who haven’t established their own personal ambiences. The universe lets us know it ain’t easy; these day especially. Everywhere you look, someone is telling you how to dress, what to wear, who to associate with, what to listen to, how you should think and react and feel... and that’s an ugly pressure many people can’t handle. Whether you call it Future Shock, or Cultural Ambivalence, or Alienation, what it means is that most of the people you meet in a day---and probably the both of us, if we’d but cop to it---are spinning. They don’t know what to believe, or how to act to be “cool,” or what is currently in or out... The same for several dozen friends of mine, nice people all, who move from apartment to apartment and change their phone numbers so often they have a permanent deposit on file with Pacific Telephone. When it was drug culture time, they came around and espoused the joys of honking kitchen cleanser... [and] now that greed and taking care of number one are the in-trips, they have become the most venal and despicable slugs in the garden... For the most part, I can’t bring myself to hate them. Forgive them, Father, they know not who they am. They are searching for a skin to wear. For a hat that fits them comfortably. For a scene that won’t reject them in six months when it ain’t chic no more. In the truest sense of the word, they are seekers... So I have to separate the “phonies” into two major groups. Those who know who they are and find something loathsome in the self-image, and so *consciously* adopt another mien... The other group, and larger by far, is comprised of those who aren’t phony at all, who are simply trying to find a way to get through all the days and nights of their lives without suffering too much. They believe what is told them, they wear those gawdawful platform shoes that make them look like clubfoots, they read Jacqueline Susann or Kurt Vonnegut with equal aplomb because they’re #1 on the *Times* list... and the dreams they dream belong to others who have had them first and deserve them. They are the Wandering Jews of our Times. Someone said to me, the other day, about a woman we both knew, “She’s such a phony.” And I started to agree, and just as suddenly stopped, because the thought---the “philosophical” thought, if you will---I’ve explicated here hit me. She isn’t a phony. She’s just spent all her formative years trying to be the kind of woman one guy after another with whom she’s been involved *wanted* her to be. It’s made her sly, cynical, unhappy, undependable, giddy, a thing of bits and pieces. She isn’t phony, she just doesn’t know who she is. And when I thought that, it was as though someone had drained all the dislike out of me for that person. Try it. Maybe it’ll work for you.
---Harlan Ellison, “A Rare, Kindly Thought,” page 140, installment 28 of the HARLAN ELLISON HORNBOOK.
This Michael guy seems to have the same problem as someone else who recently said some snotty and stupid things last week.
Mike said: “You’re a very shallow reader and would find music, education, history, theory, philosophy, psychology, and politics missing from Shakespeare too probably. Another grad from the home for the educationally inept, which is American academia.”
First of all, it seems to me (from my own experience) that the academy world-wide, in general, has become a product of institutionalized mimesis, not of people actually thinking for themselves, discovering for themselves or acting for themselves.
A sense of history, and of grasping cognitive developments (things that *go forward*), is virtually non-existent outside and within the academy. Most students don’t actually want to know anything; they just want to memorize what’s going to be on the test next week. ---Because they don’t *need* to do anything else.
Clifford Geertz cuts to the heart of the matter when he says that it is only if we abandon that sweet sense of accomplishment which comes from parading habitual skills and address ourselves to problems sufficiently unclarified as to make discovery possible, can we hope to achieve work which will not just reincarnate that of the great men of the first quarter century, but match it. (All of my quotes here are approximate.)
Kurt Vonnegut also talked about this in the intro to the first volume of *The Unabridged Mark Twain*: Universities (schools, or perhaps any educational institutions---aka prisons) are “for people who are not nearly as gifted as was Mark Twain, who need lessons in counterfeiting gifts they do not have.”
It’s not enough to study and read Mark Twain or Shakespeare or Harlan Ellison (not that HE can hold a flame to either of them; and please don’t aim your guns at me because I said that---defending HE like he’s the great white knight of the written word is... well, it’s kinda goofy really; and as much as I admire HE, believe me, he knows where he stands in the literary canon, and it’s not nearly as high as most of his “fans” like to think; reiterating again, though, that I buy everything with HE’s name on it because he has taught me more about writing---and a few other things---than just about any other writer I know with the possible exception of Raymond Carver, Anne Sexton, J.D. Salinger and Tolstoy).
It’s not enough to study and read these people; if you don’t add to that some appreciation of your own capacity to wonder about the world, then you’re screwed. You’re just going with the flow of the monkeymass, as HE might say, just another sucker trying to talk like you know what you’re talking about when you don’t.
Sometimes I see this in people who copy the actions and behaviors and the words of others, of accepted masters (such as HE if you like)---but the only people they’re fooling are the other fools who haven’t got the guts to do their own thing and who instead spend all their time mimicking the mannerisms of their “heroes.” How many jerks have made postings to this board recently trying to *sound* like HE by being insulting and condescending?
HE can be a little bit in-your-face at times, but he’s not stupid; 99% of the time I think he knows exactly what he’s saying.
HE definitely has his style, but he also has substance---probably because he knows who he is. And that’s more than I can say for this assholes trying to sound like HE. Admiration is one thing, but this kind of hero-worship is... [fill in your adjective].
I might helpt to remember that guys like Raymond Carver and HE are *NOT* masters of the short story---they are masters of *their* short stories. That’s where they deserve our admiration. But using them to shit on other people, or copying their mannerisms or style, only demonstrates your lack of imagination, your unwillingness to think for yourself, your unwillingness to *be* intelligent.
So please, have some sympathy for the rest of us, and knock it off.
And if it's not too late, make mine a...
...cheese burger.
Hey all! Doc, great swat of an idiot post.
And Keegan? By the time I *finally* got out of college - and this was just your average BA, not a graduate degree - I read nothing but brain candy for weeks! Clearly, you're of a superior nature as King isn't exactly brain candy!
Brain candy - any piece of fiction where the reader knows exactly how it will end when they pick up the book.
Peter - yes, 120 minute tapes are available, although I haven't seen any recently. I bought a bunch of 110 minute tapes about 3 weeks ago at my local Target. I like to be able to fit a couple of albums on a tape for listening pleaseure in my car!
Peg! Won't be long now!!! Thinking of you lots!!!
I met Harlan years ago at a book signing at Michigan State. He made the comment "Life is alot easier once you admit you're an asshole". I thought about that one for years...and you know he's right. Once you're able to get over yourself it becomes so much easier to do what needs to be done. It's one of the few grains of wisdom I've managed to gather along my journey. I just wanted to thank him (although he may never read this web site-I'm hoping this will pass it along).
Harlen-I appreciate that you helped me put it into perspective.
Raffa G.
Hey Keegan, congratulations. No matter what some trolls may say, you've got a lot to be proud of. And I can completely understand about wanting a hiatus from academic reading.
Now for sharing a bit of unabashed self-pride: As some people might remember, I had a crisis of academic faith last year and ended up switching majors from engineering to philosophy. Well, a lot of my friends thought I was crazy. It turns out, I was crazy, but I was also right. It turns out that one of my professors submitted a paper I did for a department award, and this afternoon he told me that my paper won. So, I'm riding on a high note right now. Though, if I remember my brief time playing jazz trombone properly, it was the low notes that got me high. (induced tones make the best buzz)
alright, enough patting myself on the back.
As for beyond 2000... Doc, if you're still out there, can you confirm this?... my NPR (KQED in San Francisco) is doing funky things with the scheduling. Even, it seems, going as far as scheduling one show and then playing another. So I don't really know when I'm going to hear what. Though the schedule does say that the Twain story is next... who knows.
By the way, does anyone know if audio tapes come in 120 minute length? (60 minutes each side?)
---Peter
furor scribendi
Finder- whether it's true or not, I don't know, but someone in the newsgroup said the radio broadcasts would be released on Dove audio in a few months.
Locus is reporting that Ackerman won the case against his ex-partner. He rec'd a pretty hefty judgment. An appeal is promised.
Joseph - Glynn Turman played Billy in “Paladin...” (compliments of the Pete’s Twilight Zone web site - VERY thorough overview of all things TZ); and Doc’s belief is true - somewhere in this attic of an apartment, I’ve got the ep on tape - and not the syndicated version, but the original CBS broadcast, Charles Aidman narrating and all. Now all I need (provided that its shelf life hasn’t expired - fifteen years and eleven moves is a lot of milage) is a VCR to watch it on...especially since the credit I saw on-line identifies Alan Smithee as the director...why any director would disown that segment eludes me...
Doc - good to see you; and that was very Shadow-esque - sweep in from the darkness, empty the .45s, vanquish the villain, and disappear once more into the night. They just don’t build heroes like you anymore.
Alejandro and Keegan - I applaud your restraint. Might be the week I've had or the people I have to deal with daily, but I'd have probably responded with two smoking barrels if someone had tried stomping on me that way. I really need a vacation...
Anyone - I’ve been unsuccessful in badgering, begging or beguiling “Beyond 2000” from my local NPR stations, and will proabably have to resort to tape when it’s available. Can anyone who’s been tuning in offer an opinion on the show so far? (And as a PSA, I see “’Repent, Harlequin!’...” is slated for July 18).
Michael,
Don'tcha think you're being just a tad quick with the judgements there? Me, I admit to being a shallow reader. But Keegan? Okay, if you *really* think Keegan is shallow, please explain your comment further. You obviously found more to the book than Keegan did. Give us an example or two so we can learn.
As for the WSJ - say what? Why do you think it is stupid? And in just what way is it stupid - the main content, the facts, the theories, it's choice of contributors, financial advise?
Personally, your post reads as something written intentionally to tick people off. Since you're obviously more intellectually refined than us, maybe you have something better to do than drop in and insult folks?
PS: Hi, Doc! Glad you're around!
Michael, man! Alejandro got it right: I was in no way trying to belittle King nor do I fail to notice that he focuses some attention on the big issues like God, and fear, and the uncomfortable human-ness of relationships. I loved the book because, despite its simplicity, it was still intriguing, thought-provoking and I enjoyed the ride. I chose the King story BECAUSE King soothes me. I owe much of my literacy, (and hence, my education) to him because he dared to write about Maine and put some scary faces on the unnamed terrors of that (and every other) beautiful land. Stephen King is an icon to me: a Maine boy who made it when so many others end up in the mills, drunk, or dead. There but for the grace of God..... He inspires me.
I could have easily chosen to read something by HE or Shakespeare, but I wanted to read something new, non-academic, and fun. There was good old SK at the supermarket checkout, shiny, new, unread, and unknown. The NYT and other book reviews had been generally positive. I impulse bought it and don't regret it.
Now I'm reading a biography of Nat King Cole. It's career-related, but still fun.
I just like to read, especially if I get to choose the material....
JOSEPH FINN -- if I remember correctly, if you go to the Online
Works department of this website, you'll find stuff relevant to
"Paladine of the Lost Hour." I don't know whether it's avail-
able on commercial video, but I'm sure someone has a copy they
taped offa teevee. And Billy was played by Glen SomeoneWhoseLastNameEludesMeAtTheMoment. Lots o' luck
Michael -- Speaking as one of the people who used to post here
in search of informative and nourishing discourse,... perhaps
you could nourish yourself by eating shit and howling at the
moon (which would take care of the discourse for you). Much
might be discussed anent the difference between snobbery and
elitism, and whether either has a place here. On the other
hand, you're leaning on a friend of mine, and I ain't gonna just
sit there and have it.
You are aware, I presume, that Ellison's work has been endlessly
anthologized within the sf/fantasy field, as well as in Best
American Short Stories for 1993? You are aware that he has been
awarded the Silver Pen for journalism? You are aware that his
collected awards and prizes, masses together, would probably
out-weigh King himself?
Let's look at Harlan's chosen medium for a moment, shall we?
Are you then aware that Edgar A. Poe considered the short story
the ideal length for literary work? Are you then going to argue
with the father of the modern horror/mystery/crime/fantasy
story? One of the giants of American storytelling?
Harlan has written novels. Poe, for that matter, wrote a novel.
Why is that a measuring-stick for quality? Ray Bradbury has
written novels; by his own account, he prefers the short story.
I have nothing against King. I usually enjoy his work, though
as the years pass, it's getting rather uneven,from novel to
novel. BAG OF BONES, good; STORM OF THE CENTURY, stinkoid; THE
GIRL WHO LOVED TOM GORD, good; HEARTS IN ATLANTIS, so-so. The
fact is, King has not been writing professionally for the last
45-or-so years. He mentions Ellison in DANSE MACABRE, fine. He
wrote the introduction to STALKING THE NIGHTMARE, fine. King
and Ellison are both writers who are cognizant of their strengths and weaknesses, and labor always to tell a us a
quality tale **whatever the length**.
But I don't think Mr. King would take to kindly to someone
visiting the website of one of his inspirations and using his
(King's) work as an excuse to launch a diatribe, condemning
someone else over preferences, all in aid of building up someone
else's obviously needy ego.
In short, get stuffed.
Cheers, Doc (a sweep of his cape, and back into the shadows...)
Michael:
My good man, could you chill out? Your response was unnecessarily disrespectful toward Keegan. Snotty, even. She was in no way, as you are implying in your diatribe, dismissing those disciplines. She was practically confessing to a need we all humans share: the search for a good story, simply told. Something that most people are in need of after having spent months toiling and burning their brains out in the halls of academia (not to say fighting humongous bureucracies and bitter academics who believe that education should be a torturous exercise).
Unfortunately, people like you have been driving away the good people who used to post in this board in search of some exciting and nourishing discourse.
That's funny Keegan I never heard of Harlan Ellison before until Stephen King mentioned him in Dance Macabre.
Your a very shallow reader and would find music, education, history, theory, philosophy, psychology, and politics missing from Shakespeare too probably.
Another grad from the home for the educationally inept, which is American academia.
Since Ellison confines himself almost entirely to the short story while King writes novels and short stories
{one of which found a place in the O'Henry Best American Short Stories collection} its ironic that you would dismiss King's "pretty short words"
Xanadu, The Wall Street Journal is complexly stupid.
Thank to all for your kind wishes! It became "official" yesterday: I passed my comps and the paper follows.
One of the first things I did to celebrate was to read a work of fiction. I didn't care if it was good fiction or bad fiction. I just wanted to read something that a) was short and used pretty short words b) wasn't required reading c) had nothing to do with Music, Education, History,Theory, Philosophy, Psychology, or Politics.
I chose THE GIRL WHO LOVED TOM GORDON by Stephen King. It was there at the checkout: short 'n' cheap. And how I loved it (having spent some time "lost" in the Maine woods and having spent my youth spiritually connected to the Boston Red-Sox via radio broadcast, I could really throw myself into that book). It wasn't the high-order writing that I think of when I think of HE, but it was a damn good story. I read it in a day. So good to read something besides textbooks!!!
This is not intended to flame a recent discussion, but the tidbit I just ran across is too good not to post...
--------
Marvel Enterprises will increasingly move into film and video games and away from comics, Marvel CEO Peter Cuneo told The Wall Street Journal.
With comic book sales flagging, company execs acknowledge that kids just aren’t ready comics that much anymore, according to the Journal. The newspaper says the company’s "only chance for survival is to leap--right off the page."
"The simple paper medium of comic books just isn't cutting it in the age of video's flashy special effects, explosive audio and interactive action,” the Journal said.
Despite the move into celluloid, Marvel’s Cuneo acknowledges that the company won’t get a cut of ticket sales for any ongoing movie project except for Spider-Man. "[T]he other deals were made by past Marvel CEOs that sold the rights to the characters for cash," Cuneo told the Journal.
Web only comics and interactive games at www.marvel.com are also in the offing.
-------------
That should cut down on the number of superhero books out there quite nicely.... (Though, given their track record for movies and other "new technologies", you'd think they'd be a little more nervous. :) )
But, since Marvel almost single-handedly trashed the comic distribution system a few years ago, I can only wish them luck in all their future endeavours and look forward to reading about the adventures of Dark Horse's Spiderman character in a couple more years.
And is it me, or did anyone else catch the incredible arrogance in the phrase "simple paper medium"? It's only the medium that EVERY work of liturature has been preserved and distributed on for the last several hundred years... It's backwardly compatible with all previous versions, and platform independant... It won't care if Apple vanishes, Linux implodes, and Micro$oft get hacked into 2.7 billion pieces by the Justice department.
I like the electronic world, I really do, but give me the smell of a used bookstore and the feel of a "simple paper medium", any day.
Good Luck to Marvel
Hay, does anyone know if the New Twilight Zone production of "Paladin of the Lost Hour" was ever released on video? Relating to that, who was the gentleman who played Billy Kinetta? The IMDB, unfortunately, has not been a help on this one.
Charlie:
Got the same results as you on number #5. Number #6 (titled "It's ok to dislike me", frankly, had never heard or seen before. I am downloading number 7 tonight
Alejandro-Thanks for the heads up. #5 was a repeat of #4. #6 was another repeat w/o the video. Only #7 was new, about HE's friend who recently passed. Did you get the same results?
Allow me to interrupt the Sounds of Silence that have afflicted this forum by reporting that Harlan's fifth, sixth and seventh commentaries are up and running in the Galaxy Online website. Haven't downloaded them yet myself. Will do so soon.
Dear Alex and gang:
Let me try this one more time. Either I am submitting this message again or I did not the first time around.
You can find the Harlan Ellison Thread in the Warren Ellis Forum under the Transmetropolitan folder.
Speaking of Ellis: Planetary #10 and "From the Desk of Warren Ellis", a collection of his e-mail newsletter, is coming out this Wednesday as well as the once pulped now reprinted League of Extraordinary Gentelmen #5 (DC pulped all the originals because some editor or other took objection at one of the Victorian style-ads at the end -for "Marvel Vaginal something or other").
Alex and all:
You'll find the Harlan Ellison thread under the Transmetropolitan header.
Good hunting.
Forgot that carets are considered HTML tags.
So, of course, the actual URLs of the websites spoken of below show up as empty spaces.
Here you go, and go to it, if you please
http://www.thehungersite.com
http://www.therainforestsite.com
http://www.endcancernow.com
Couple things.
Alejandro: WHERE on the Warren Ellis Discussion Forum? The only mention of Ellison there that I saw was a throwaway ref to this lovely page and Harlan's interviews.
(Off-topic, but SF-related: Did anyone else know that, in addition to Ted Sturgeon's and Alfred Bester's labors in the 1940s comic book industry, Manly Wade Wellman wrote many of the wartime Spirit stories for Will Eisner? *I* sure didn't. Silver John, John Thunstone, and Denny Colt. Quite an unlikely trio, yes?)
Keegan: Many serried congratulations, all lined up as far as the eye can see. Of course, given the level of your discourse here and your obvious knowledge of jazz, it would only be surprising had you FAILED to fly your colors so flagrantly as you passed.
On the Filmland case: Though it might be fun to visit his colloection, I really haven't that much respect for Forry. In my opinion, I hold him and the works of his spiritual children (FANGORIA, STARLOG) as in large part culpable for the dumbing-down of SF/F/H in the public eye.
And lastly, a wholly un-SF-related appeal.
A while ago, someone here brought up The Hunger Site , a click-for-charity site which solicits sponsors who then pay a certain amount for each person who clicks onto the site (not on their banners, note) so that your one click (only one a day per person is allowed) buys anywhere from one and a half to three cups of staple food (rice, wheat corn) for a starving person somewhere in the world. Said donations of food are then distributed to the world's hunger hot spots by the United Nations World Food Programme.
(and yes; there are a lot of things about the UN that rub me wrong, but this one is an okay division, I suppose)
Recently, the site was taken over by one of its most frequent contributors, the Internet retail-for-charity site GreaterGood.com. Nothing of substance has changed, however, save that the site's graphics are ever-so-slightly more eye-pleasing and, I would assume, they now have a larger network for soliciting sponsors.
GreaterGood also runs a similar site that just started up, The Rainforest Site, located at--surprise!-- ; this one, while not dealing with a problem quite as near to my heart or important in my eyes as world hunger, is still worth clicking on, for all the time it takes out of the day--it takes but a second, really. I don't know if their sponsoring deals are different, but whereas The Hunger Site's sponsors each pay for one-quarter cup of staple food per click, The Rainforest Site showed that my one click, with six sponsors on board, gained 19.2 square feet of rainforest land to be donated to (and to be protected by) The Nature Conservancy, a HUGE conservancy group.
Plus, there's another click-for-charity site that's started up, inspired by the efforts of The Hunger Site, called End Cancer Now.
Predictably, it's at .
This one usually has four or five sponsors, and every click is valued at about two to two and a half cents that go to cancer research.
From things many people on this board have said, we're a very giving aggregate here, so I thought it might do to publicize these sites again. Ten seconds a day is worth it, you know?
You know, that last time I lurked around these parts, there happened to be some other unpleasantness brought about by “Jim.” I recall him making too many references to Harlan, as if Harlan was on his side with some juvenile arugment he was trying to mke. Then today I take a peek and find Jim saying to David, “Maybe if you were a real writer like Harlan Ellison you would be interesting as a person. You're not a writer.” This is exactly what I remember from the last time. This guy is using *Harlan* to beat up on other people. My first impressions told me that this was just some self-righteous junior high school kid spending most of his time writing bad science fiction and looking up to Harlan like he was the messiah. Poor fella. But now it’s quite apparent that Jim is an adult, but an adult who stopped taking his medication a week or so ago. That’s all it is, folks. It’s probably just a temporary mental instability which is normally kept in check by medication and therapy. Jim’s probably going through a stressful time right now; it doesn’t take much to go over the line. I can relate. I recently lost everything I own in a house fire (e.g., all of my HE books), and in these past months I have on occasion gone over the edge and done and said things to people which I would normally never come close to doing---completely over the edge, irresponsible and erratic behaviour related to post traumatic stress. Only a couple times, but I know it well enough now to recognize similar behaviour in other people. And it looks like something similar might be going on with Jim. I’m not defending him---if I was Rick, I’d delete his postings and tell him to go away---but I am offering a thought of sympathetic consideration for the guy. Or perhaps Jim just needs more time to discover his own personal ambience and in the mean time leave everyone else alone (see installment 28 of the HORNBOOK). I wish him well.
Ooooooops, forgot to add the URL. Its. www.delphi.com/ellis. or go to Warren's website at www.warrenellis.com and pay the man a visit.
Okay, kids, listen up and listen good. You'll love this. Visitors to The Warren Ellis Forum started a thread on Harlan Ellison, the man, his influence on Ellis' work and…well, all things Harlan. Hop over there and check out what others are saying about DA MAN! including the rightful heir to Harlan's throne (I mean, if there is such a thing), Warren Ellis.
KEEGAN!! WOOO HOOO!! *suddenly feels the need to sing scat in celebration* Way To Go!! Congrats! *HUG* man-o-man been some long haul, and now you have The Paper.. (note: not all papers that count are newspapers) Go forth, and kick butt with that fabulous sultry voice. Can't keep a good woman down.. :-)
PEG - dangit sure wish I *could* be there to party down..err..socialize.. Dontcha hate it when geography defeats you? I'm sure you know how I feel.. ;-) *hug* I'll be there in spirit.. Dance on the table once, and think of me...
ALL - Yes I still haunt Webderland, reading every word posted. I stopped posting much when it became clear that perspectives were being responded to as challenges consistantly by a few. Not being into getting "set straight" and chastised for having POV which didn't meet someone else's criteria of worthiness, and therefor having to defend myself for having had a thought, I decided it was less wear and tear to simply not post if posting means I have to clarify for days and wind up "agreeing to disagree" at best.. Yeah, I know.. I'll be told it's all in my head again.. yet another "proof" of how badly skewed my POV is (because whatever someone thinks they are, and says they are, is what they ARE.. isn't it? And if like minded people agree, then it's a FACT.. right??).. And that still won't explain why so many old-timers on this board just lurk now..or why so few newcomers don't post anything to spit at. Chew on it.
*Turns on Lurk Mode*
Keegan - Go, cat, go! Now step out and have that jumpin', jivin', be-boppin' celebration you richly deserve!
David - This is just a supposition regarding the trial, but given that part of what Ferry is claiming is that Ackerman harassed him via fax, I can see HE testifying to his own experiences with Ackerman in that regard. As for the other elements of bad blood between Ellison and Ackerman, I have no clue if they even would have come up; I suppose it would depend on whether counsel and the judge felt allegations of pilfered royalties, disdain at Forry's final autograph requests, or the dismissed case between the two were in any way germane, which I doubt they would be given what I've read about the Ackerman/Ferry case.
Again, this is merely conjecture on my part. And as an aside, having been a reporter for some time in the past for the Catskill Daily Mail (which, last I checked, wasn't a Gannett newspaper nor had a preoccupation with Bill Clinton, lest someone fall on MY head like a listing chimney), I for one feel you've done it all straight-up from the journalist's code. It never ceases to amaze me how some people think the press pass is carte blanche to get any information from anywhere for any reason at any time. It's never made anyone Superman...well, except maybe in one case...so welcome, pull up a chair, sit a spell. We don't bite. Except maybe Rick. But only if you yank his tail - and that's what you deserve in that case anyway.
Just read what I posted. Oh yeah, still on that first cuppa joe. I am SOOOOO not ever going to be a morning person. A decade of getting up before birds (and yes, I would make a ROTTEN farmer type person) hasn't changed that AT all.
Sorry!
KEEGAN! WOOOOOHOOOOO!!! Hey, let me be the first of (undoubtedly!) many to you offer you congratulations! Most excellent news! WOOOHOOOOOO!!!!
I don't have much to say but that Jim doesn't seem his normal, sane self. His normal sanity was always a bit close to the edge, but now he seems to have gone over. It shocks me. Like a tornado out of left field or some such cliche (I don't write for a living. I sing.)
Jim, man, I knew that you were referring to HE's B/D, but I have a mind for that sort of weirdass trivia (hey, don't knock it. That skill helped me bullshit my way through graduate school). It was rather cryptic and easily misconstrued. I mean, we like Harlan, but it ain't like his birthday is Christmas or somethin'.
BTW: for the lurkers and Webderfolk who care about such things (esp. Sue Luesse):I MADE IT. My degree will be mailed to me shortly (God willin'and the creek don't rise, like da man say). Now about that job....
Yikes!
Why do I have this image in my head of Harlan saying "Hey, Jim! Get offa my side!"
JIM: Gotta tell ya bud (and this comin from someone who holds no grudge and thinks -- though we haven't met in person, or communicated with you through the mails -- you're probably a nice guy). Lately your posts have sounded like someone whose cheese just slid off his cracker. Really. You don't seem to be making anything close to sense (forget logic, even the folks in the Looking Glass World would be confounded). Perhaps it's time for a little respite. Take some time off, away from the computer and away from the maddening crowd. I just had a getaway weekend myself, two weeks ago (at THE ELMS HOTEl, in Eureka Springs, MO), and it was perfect. Fresh air, ambiance, hot tubs, spring water, hiking, biking...it cost a bit of money, but the restoration of the mind and spirit (note for Peg and Others: I _didn't_ say "soul" in that born-again sense) is a priceless commodity. Go, now. Cleanse yourself. And return a new man (before Rick kicks yer butt outta Webderland). Out here, DTS (alias Ghandi, Phillip Habib, etc., etc.)
Geez-us. One time only: IT IS NOT MY BIRTHDAY. The SOMEBODY I referred to Harlan Ellison. According to the records I have HIS BIRTHDAY is coming up.
As to when my b-day is, I'm not egotistical enough to announce it because it doesn't matter to anyone except me and those in my inner circle. And I get ticked when people suggest I am being egotistical about such things. I mentioned this because Harlan has, in the past, noted his birthday. Why he does is NOT, as far as I can tell, egotistical, but merely a mentioning of a certain fact given the often nature of his non-fiction writing.
As to Colton, well, speaking of egotistical, his remarks that the only writing that matters is that which occurs in print goes to demonstrate his bigotry, his discrimintation, his prejudice. I guess this no-talent hack, based on these remarks, thinks Stephen King's trip into e-publishing is inferior. Really? Gosh, I'd like to know MR. Colton's credentials that allow him to make this pronouncement.
Oh, right: He's a hack who works at a tabloid rag that is too damn lazy to send someone to a trial or to pick up the phone and make inquiries that way.
Which is reflective of the news media at large. Including his god and master, GANNETT.
As to World Horror Con: One time only: I am not withdrawing my remarks previous. Nor will I apologize for your incompetence. I have yet to get ONE thing that answered my original inquiry. Fine. As I have noted before I know when I am not wanted or welcomed. And if discriminating gives you jollies, go for it.
As far as liberalism today goes, what a crock. Almost anyone who claims to be a liberal isn't. Like Colton.
Incidentally, last time I looked Harlan was in the phone book. You could always call and find out the status of the trial. But I wouldn't suggest doing so because Harlan Ellison, unlike Colton, is a WRITER and he is very busy actually working for a living.
Have a nice day, everyone.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Jim - I'm going to second what Peggy said. You need to back the fuck down, and fast. While I support the free exchange of opinions, this is not the place to tee off on someone based on your feelings about institutions including newspapers and conventions.
Previously you accused someone of being racist with no evidence, and that person turned out to be in a mixed marriage. Now you're calling someone names merely because of where he works and what you SUSPECT as his motives.
You are correct in that few people here care that Mr. Colton is an editor at USA TODAY. But I, for one, DO care about the abuse you're heaping on him and I am serving you notice that behavior like that won't be tolerated here. There are plenty of outlets for personal and political bile on the Internet. I don't intend for this forum to become one of them. Protecting personal speech also means protecting people who speak from being attacked for no good reason.
Since you are a frequent and valued contributor to this forum (and since you have a birthday coming up), consider this a friendly heads-up. But know that no matter what your contributions have been I do not intend to argue about this.
Re: Famous Monsters of Filmland. Have no idea about the current legal story connected with the magazine. All I have to submit is that, no matter how legendary it may be, it's a crummy mag. Its writing staff doesn't seem to care what facts it gets wrong. Dates, names, titles, you name it - I've never seen a magazine get more info wrong in its features than this one. It may pander to kids, but there are even kids who know accurate and inaccurate reporting. Upon embarrasing mischance, I picked it up maybe 3 times in my life, browsed through, and saw the sloppiest work ever. I'm only surprised legal problems took this long to come up. In summary: man, what a piece of shit.
Yes, Peg, that is precisely the case, and thanx for giving me the benefit of the doubt.
I'm not going to call a court or ANY source and say I'm so-and-so from a publication when I have no intention of writing a story FOR that publication. THAT is a misrepresentation.
I truly and honestly wanted (and still want), the trial information solely for the AOL Horror group (a board similar to this), and I thought posting here was a legitimate way to gather information for our group of fans there. I'm not going to put on my reporter hat and bother lawyers and witnesses and court clerks who have plenty of other things to do than to help me post something on a horror board. I could find out EVERYTHING about the trial in about an hour if I did that. But that would be misrepresenting myself.
If I somehow came across as posturing it was not my intent. I was telling the total truth about who I was, where I work and what I was requesting. Gee whiz. So again, thanx for considering my side of things. It is appreciated and I don't know why I had to be so viciously attacked. I'm actually quite a good guy. later...
David - I'm sorry you got such a vicious welcome in public. I don't know you from Adam, and wouldn't know how you could get the info anyway other than a generic internet search (having had no involvement with the court scene ever, thankfully!).
Jim - I can see some of your point, that is, if David is a journalist why doesn't he just get the information in a normal journalistic manner. Seems like scamming for free info on behalf of the paper.
For my part, I gave him the benefit of the doubt in that I didn't assume he was an editor in the portion of the publication which would cover the trial; I figured he was an editor of some other part (oh, say Sports) and couldn't legitimately justify any possible costs of tracking down the on a professional basis as it wasn't his area of responsibility, not his job to cover that story. Maybe he was only asking out of personal interest and not in info gathering for the publication.
I must say, though, that you really did flame him most severely for a first-time poster and didn't really give him any chance to explain himself. Usually folks tend to try & avoid the worst flaming on the webderboard. If you want to lambast him personally, hey, no problem, you're entitled to think he's scum of the earth. And I have no beef with you saying he's full of it on the board. But maybe next time you can send all the long-winded highly personal insults via email instead of posting them?
Peg
OOOOPS - forgot to mention, that party is on Monday May 8th!
Thanx DTS. I'll only say this. I'm not posting as an editor or reporter for a publication, but simply as a horror fan who wants to find out what happened at the trial. I'm perfectly aware how to cover a trial, even by phone, but was hoping someone had some information -- for use on the horror boards over at AOL. That was all.
I mentioned the name of my paper because it's precise and truthful (that's where I work), and I wanted no confusion about me being some trojan horse or something.
And if it matters, USA TODAY is in all caps because that's our style at the paper and that's how I type it.
All that said, I don't know Mr. Hess at all, can't possibly imagine what I might have done to provoke such a response, and will happily move on. Any problems you have with Gannett (two Ts), has nothing to do with me or the work I do. So someone who might have enjoyed spending a little time here, and who smiled when he discovered this page, will instead say goodbye. Thanx for your time.
david
JIM: Ignore the question about the banquet -- just reread your first post earlier today. Have a good one. Out here, DTS.
JIM: Personally, I know (from your past email and comments) that you're a good guy. And regardless of your political view (though I gotta admit, it does sound like yours sit further right than mine -- but so does my brother's and I still love 'im), the way you jumped on Colton _did_ seem kinda brash. Yeah, he might've been wearing his credentials a little to high on his sleeve, but since we've never met the guy I figure it's best to give him the benefit of the doubt and figure he was just briming with a little excessive pride (not gloating or boasting). (And, though I wont repeat any names, I've seen a couple of postings by Webderlanders recounting messages and conversations with Ellison in which he told them they had "the right stuff" to be a writer -- that may have seemed overly boastful to some, but I think most of us realized it was just unabashed pride). As for the information, I know it's (fairly) easy to get the info he wanted (in this case, what Ellison said, etc) via internet -- but sometimes the news story on such events isn't posted until the next day (speaking for myself, I'm pretty impatient -- and sometimes my searches on the internet don't turn up what I'm looking for within the first 30 minutes or so). If he was calling from home (maybe he works the nightshift), or checking on his own, personal time, then using the phone might have been too expensive or too costly job-wise (especially if his bosses watch records like mine used to when I worked for THE CORPORATE WORLD). Anyway, the whole point is that I'd never seen Colton post before, and your attack on him seemed to come out of the blue. I see, now, that you've had a problem with Gannet, and maybe that colored your initial reaction to him. Guess I was feeling like Ghandi today, hoping to smooth things over. Shalom. Peace, man. (By the way, if you decided to purchase tickets to the Stoker Banquet Awards thingee, let me know -- I'll keep an eye out for you and be sure to say Hi). Out here, DTS.
DTS: Have you lost your mind? Right wing? Balls. I haven't use for any of them. As to Mr. I'm-So-Important-Cos-I'm-Traitor Colton, you missed the point. (And I find that hard to believe because you seem to be right on usually.) This bozo claims to be a professional journalist. (Which makes him better than YOU because he works full time and gets to violate the First Amendment by way of a six figure salary and six weeks paid leave each year.) And yet here he is, here, wanting US to offer up, for free, info on Harlan Ellison, John Landis, and the likes. Why? A) He's lazy. B) He's cheap. C) He's a self-righteous dink. D) Oh, why bother to continue. The point is, anyone can get the information he claims to want. How? Well, last time I checked you call information and ask for the judicial system in your neck of the woods. Then you call the court system. In this case, I take it to be the greater Los Angeles county. And you ask for information about where and when and how a given court is being heard. Then, if you happen to be in that part of the world, you go to said courtroom. See how easy that is?
As to Mr. Colton citing dangerous visions, well, he and his gang of scum at Gannett oughta know. They violate the First Amendment rights of people all the time. They don't give a damn about the Constitution and the only time they care about the law is when they can exploit it for their personal gain. You want an example of Gannet's upstanding citizenry? Here, where I live, there is Gannett newspaper. It refuses to report on Hunter Safety Workshops, firearm safety, preventive gun stuff, etc. Why? Well, hell, if people actually understand the destructive force guns weild they might not pick one up and blow someone away. And if that were to happen, well, no crime, no news.
And we can't have that, can we? How else to advance Mr. Colton's political agenda except by ignoring the facts and the truths?
Enough. Colton is a pissant with an ego the size of Texas and a brain the size of a pea. Back to Harlan Ellison:
I see at Ebay there are a number of volumes for sale by Hisself. Regardless the physical condition I opine they are worth the money laid down.
Have a nice day.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
I have no specific agenda in posting this addition, however I just wanted to let everyone nkow that I saw Harlan Ellison at the LA Times Festival of Books last Sunday (April 30th). Although it was supposed to be formatted as an interview, where Harlan would be questioned by Digby Diehl, it ended up more along the lines of Harlan recounting anecdotes in response to questions mostly from the audience.
I had never had the opportunity to see Mr. Ellison in person, and I can say that he met and exceeded my expectations of him. In person, he is everything you would expect after reading his essays and introductions. I was also fortunate enough to have two of my books signed by him and to shake his hand. I look forward seeing him again.
-Matt
DAVID COLTON: Thanks for the interesting tidbit of information about Ellison. I'm sure if anyone living nearby in California (who frequents the board)reads or hears anything, they'll pass it onto you. As for the "greeting" you got from fellow "poster" Jim Hess, I'm at a loss for words. One can only assume that his far-right, Attila-the-Hun style political beliefs have finally driven him over the edge (or else he ate a bad twinkie). Whatever the case may be, hope you don't take Jim's rebuke as representative at all of us here in Webderland. Some of us actually think liberal is beautiful word. Out here, DTS.
Well, seems Webderland is a very happy, open place. Good luck, Jim. Hope someone returns your fan calls...
Dangerous visions are not just in books, my friend, and great writers such as Harlan and others I respect know that life is delicate and nuanced, not the pulp-army viewpoints of political adolescence that you espouse. So spare everyone here from YOUR self-importance. And if you'd like to read some of my work, which appears on paper, not in pixels, send me a stamped, self-addressed envelope...
Oh, spare us. The only reason you mentioned that you work for USA Today instead of saying you are an editor for a major daily and leaving it at that is because you are, like your fellow goosestepping, no-talent hacks, an egotist who thinks, because he kisses Bill Clinton's ass, you're better than The Great Unwashed Masses.
Maybe if you weren't such an overbearing, pompus, jerkoff, maybe if you were a real writer like Harlan Ellison you would be interesting as a person. You're not a writer. And you're not interesting as a person.
As to information, odds are it can be had (IF that is what you are really after) from wire services and local reporters who might be in the neighborhood of the trial at hand. Of course, you're not after information, just like you and your anti-American fellow scum at Gannett are not after truth and fact. You're just here to show everyone how important you think you are because you're a whore for the traitor Bill Clinton and because people are sick of the propoganda you call news. So do the world a big, big favor and kiss off. You won't, of course, because, like Bill Clinton, you're a coward.
Have a nice day.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Thank you, Mr. Hess, for your friendly message. I'm sorry you don't enjoy the nation's newspaper, but I only mentioned my affiliation with USA TODAY to avoid any suggestions that as a journalist I was not being forthright about my background.
But yes, we have reporters and yes, we will cover the trial eventually in a wrap-up piece (I hope; i'm only one of many there). For now, though, all I really want to know is what Ellison and the rest have been testifying, and this seemed a good place to begin my quest. As a fan and follower of most everyone involved.
I'll only say that Harlan Ellison and John Landis and Ray Bradbury testifying in a trial about Forrest Ackerman and Ray Ferry is a heck of a moment for the horror, science fiction and fantasy genre, and why this should provoke such an angry response is beyond me. It's just plain interesting, this horror trial, and it's morning on the East Coast and all I'm trying to do is find out what happened. Again, anyone who has information to share it will be appreciated. And thanx for reading...
david
A quick aside - I'll be in the LA area briefly next week. Any local webderlanders who'd like to meet, we're having a going away party at TGIFridays at the Brea Mall (57 fwy @ Imperial Hwy exit, ~5PM start, end ???). Feel free to drop on by and say hello and so long,have a drink, a snack, a chat. (I'll be the short, brown/auburn haired vocal woman with the tall, lanky, sandy-haired husband).
Peg
RE: David Colton's remarks about USA Today not covering the trial: Yes? And? Like this is 'news'? USA Today, and its parent company Gannet, won't cover something unless has to do with the first pervert, William Jefferson Blythe Clinton, or his member, and how it supposedly bends to left, and is rather prehensile, possessing the means to grip and grasp green M & Ms. Give it a rest, Colton. No one cares you're a so-called editor for the biggest pro-Communist rag in the country. If you want to do something useful you'd get off your lazy ass and go cover the trial yourself. Failing that you'd hire a stringer. Geez-us. Yet another journalistic jerkoff strutting around the barnyard, getting ready for a self-serving pissing contest.
In another news, about Edgeworks V. Patience, folks. It happens when it happens. Harlan has things to do and appeasing us ain't necessarily one of them.
Onward.
What else? Oh, right: Gotta nifty note from the lovely Susan about the World Horror Con, assuring me "I will hear from them soon". Riiiiight. Well, I'm off groups like that and am taking dear Mom to dinner that weekend and doing a workshop for the kiddos. (Unlike Colton, who apparently thinks pleasuring himself in public serves a higher purpose.) Many thanks to the beautiful Mrs. Ellison. But, never mind. Maybe some other time I can catch up the Unca Harlan and thank him proper like.
And speaking of thanks, don't forget SOMEBODY'S birthday is coming up.
Have a nice day, everyone.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Hello. Word is that Harlan Ellison testified yesterday (5/2), at the Forrest Ackerman vs. Ray Ferry trial in Van Nuys, Calif., concerning the dispute over Famous Monsters magazine.
He was a defense witness (called by Ferry), but it is unclear if he was subpoenaed to testify or volunteered.
Many of us at the Classic Horror Film Boards at AOL and elsewhere are keenly interested in what Harlan had to say, his take on the case, his take on Ackerman, Ferry, or any other details about the testimony.
So if anyone has info, it's appreciated.
The trial has received only sporadic press coverage (the L.A. Times had a piece about Bradbury's testimony on Monday), but no one is covering it day to day that we have found. (For the record, I'm an editor at USA TODAY but we are not -- so far, anyway -- covering the trial and this query is as a horror fan).
Anyhow, again, any help appreciated and if anyone would like to visit the AOL Classic Horror Film Boards we can be found at Keyword: Movies, and then follow the horror, fan and message links til you get to Horror Boards. We're in there.
Thanx again...david
DTS - Saw Dogma a while back and loved it - thought it was *hilarious*. What we particularly enjoyed was that it managed to parody or otherwise berate organized religion (esp. catholicism) in both obvious and sly manner, but at the same time portray some of the more fundamental characterics (e.g, love and forgiveness) of the basic faith. I also thought Ben Affleck did a great job of showing his characters evolution from one position to the opposite, and eventual repentance.
(Wow, we both actually liked this movie. Who-da thunk it.)
I know many of us have been disappointed several times by watching a release date come and go, but it may be worth noting that Edgeworks 5 is scheduled for August 1, 2000 according to Amazon. I thought it was last classified as being in backorder limbo, so something may have changed...?
Keep hope alive!
Corey
ALL: Boy, there've been a lot of weird postings lately (see below -- a few times). Must be something in the water. Have you guys seen "DOGMA?" I know it came out in theaters last year, but it just hit video tape, and I caught it in that form. Hilarious. And casting Alanis Morrisette as "God" was inspired. (Kevin Smith is one of my favorite writer/directors). Wonder if Alanis got the joke -- if she did, she's got a good sense of humor. Out here, DTS.
WHAT HARLAN ELLISON MEANS TO ME
I was in my second year of college. I had long ago decided that science fiction was a childish thing best put away.
I found this book. THE GLASS TEAT.
Man, this guy was talking my language.
I wondered, had this fellow written anything else?
Oh, a few things, I found out. Oh, I won't say what affect those books had on me, from the looks around this site Harlan Ellison is rightly intolerant of mushy stuff.
He made me realize that you weren't necessarily a crazed malcontent if you didn't like commercial tv or radio,or movies, that popular fiction didn't have to be, I think a word he sometimes used, "dreck", that there was good stuff out there if you wanted to work at it and sort it out, that there were . . .possibilities.
He made me realize with regard to the herd, or what he sometimes termed "scuttlefish" that maybe it aint me, its them. And , best of all, he came up with a bunch of cool words and phrases that even today I shamelessly admit I am still stealing today and passing off as my own.
Don't worry. I aint made a nickel from 'em yet. But when I do I'll remember to lay some bread on him . . .real bread. Pumpernickle.
Did you think I meant money?
Chris Hayden
And now for something completely different. You will find an excerpt of Unca Harlan's unplished novel, "The Man who Searched for Sweetness" at:
http://www.calendarlive.com/calendarlive/books/festival2000/lalit2000.htm#
Where's the nearest exit? This is becoming way too modernist and existentialist for me. Come on, folks, we need some greedy capitalist dissertations here. Pleeeease!
Aaaahhh!
Overwritten self-referential literary masturbation!
Aaaaahhh!!!
On a discussion board!
RUN!
Run while you still can!
Darn Rick, how come nobody is posting on the board?
---Peter
furor scribendi
I tried to feel the Other's hand in the glass.
I pushed toward an imagined warmth and consummation.
But the glass shattered and I bled.
Nothing left but to bind the wounds,
Sweep up the pieces
Restore order and health
Learn
Be
Nobody was in a quandary. He really had no idea what he wanted to do in life. He had reached the point in self evolution where he no longer felt bound by the traditional constraints of most men. He knew that in any situation, he could take care of himself and his needs, he had trained himself in those arts. But this wasn't any situation and it wasn't any environment. It was the one in which he was bound now. And nothing told him what to do.
He had tried listening deep inside himself for that voice which tells one what to do, but it had been muted long ago, a punishment for serving the forces of the outside environment, however unwillingly. And so the cage had been continually crafted, finer and finer, but there was no bird left to sing in it. Nobody was now a drifter, passing from point to point of moderate interest, but never feeling driven, and never feeling attached.
At times, he was lonely. This he viewed as one of those necessary factors of existence. To him, no matter how much one felt love, the object of affection always remains an external thing. You can wrap yourself up in it, use it to keep yourself warm; blindfold yourself with it, so that it is all you see, but in the end, you are still you, unchanged. Nobody's favorite image of love was one of trying to touch the other hand in a mirror: you can push as hard as you like, and the harder you push the closer you get, but the returns lessen with every increment of force you apply, and in the end you will never be able to touch that other hand. So it is with souls, and no matter how hard you hold someone, how much a part of your life you make them, or how deep you penetrate or are penetrated, the two will never quite be able to touch.
His primary view of spirituality also remained unfulfilling. His theology was best explained as this: That there was only one thing, (God, matter, whatever) but we shall call it the universe. The universe is it. There is no more, there is no Other. To this end, it is a bored and lonely creature. So to entertain itself, it breaks itself up into pieces, and places constraints on its own knowledge. It then experiences itself through consciousnesses, one at a time, and each time having a limited amount of free will. The easiest way to explain this part is to draw on the idea of reincarnation. Imagine first, that you die and that your soul gets reborn into another existence someplace else. Secondly, imagine that this rebirth is not constrained by the forward motion of time, so that it is entirely possible that the succeeding birth occurs prior to the previous death. Under this constraint, it is entirely possible for the same soul to meet up and have a conversation with itself. Now imagine this process repeating ad infinitum, and you get the general idea. In this way, it fills itself with experience, thus nullifying (in the short term) the feeling of being alone. Because of this, no experience is necessarily any better or worse than another. Killing or being killed, loving or being loved, rises and falls of civilizations, the joys of the crowds and the joys of the hermit, small things and large, all are experiences, and all are inextricably bound together. Degree or scale cannot be a one sided equation, since it needs a point of reference. This is why experience is the opium of the universe.
But two major questions loomed before Nobody's mind. Why had he been able to figure this out? And what would be the repercussions? Surely, if this theory was correct, then to expose the charade would end the game; but the game had not ended. Instead, the game had gone on. And by the continuation of the game, then the theory could not be believed, and the charade could continue.
Or, he was just wrong, but to all the people he spoke of this theory to, almost all admitted that it seemed to smack of some truth on some level of their soul… and so he continued to wonder….
The practical upshot of all this theorizing was that Nobody was freed from the concept of morality, one of the last bonds of his soul. It is not that he felt that he could go out and kill and not be punished, (he did still believe in the rules of society around him, and he still generally liked to see people happy) but there really was no value to him either in creation or destruction, since one experience was just as valid as the other. He began to see the world operating in terms of "situational ethics", where he and those he observed around him would perform an action as it seemed right at the time, and if asked about it later, would try to reconstruct a logical paradigm using the ethics at hand (often a ludicrous project). This is not to say that the ethics of the past do not influence later ethics, but instead that they are much more loosely defined than most people would admit, and that they are constantly shifting.
However, the freedom he found was unfulfilling. He was squarely in charge of his destiny (to a point), but without ambition and without a set of guidelines. It made no real difference to create a temporary goal and follow through, or not. To paraphrase a saying he once heard; no matter where he went, there he was. And still is.
For people in LA, Harlan Ellison will
be interviewed at the LA Times Book festival
on Sunday, April 30 at 1:30 pm. More details at
http://www.latimes.com/events/fob/
PEG: We'll definitely have to agree to disagree, since neither of us is giving ground at this point. Like me, you seem to enjoy a good theological/philosophical debate, but (as you pointed out)I'm not sure others share that love. As for making it over to Scotland, my wife and I have been talking about taking our daughter along on a visit to "old blighty" within the next year or two, and Scotland is only a hop and a skip away, so I'll keep in touch via email. I'd definitely enjoy meeting you (and I'm glad I haven't alienated you with my bull-headed opinions). If we do decided to have at it in person, we'll have to do it at some distance from my wife, whose tolerance level for my B.S. is finite. Take care, and, to borrow from Ellison's oft-borrowed Egyptian blessing, "God be between you and harm in all the empty places you walk." Out here, DTS.
I don't really want to get too deep but I would like to clarify further (and even concede a point or two). Last post - promise. Any further discourse, just send me an email (don't want to bore the good patrons). Uninterested people should skip this dissertation.
Regarding predictions - sorry for being unclear or misusing words. Evolution, as a theory, ought to be able to "predict" or explain the behavior of the past, what should have happened during the course of natural history if the theory is true. What my previous statement was meant to say is that according to the theory of evolution, things should have happened in a certain way, and historical and experimental evidence should support it. But that is not always the case; and there seems to be the same reluctance among it's proponents to question the tenets as you would attribute to people with religious beliefs in regards to their faith.
To use the previous example, there should be some, if not an abundance, of fossil records of transitional forms between a monkey and a man, or an amphibian and a dog, etc., as genetic mutation into superior forms is the critical supposition of evolution. There is a serious lack of these forms in the fossil records, though there is no shortage of records of the non-transitional forms (many fossils previously thought to be transitional have eventually been classified otherwise). As you say, the theory is always being revised to fit the evidence, which is good; but on this point, it seems researchers continue to look for evidence to support the theory rather than to say what theory fits the evidence. Might there not be a position to at least consider the implications of the lack of such evidence?
Facts which support creationism - you are right; if you are looking for facts that support the existence of a supernatural being who created the universe, then you will probably be disappointed (to me this is akin to the scene from "Contact" where Matthew McConnaghey's character asks Jodie Foster's character to *prove* she loved her father; of course she can't prove it). [a further aside - that does not necessarily make creationsim defacto myth or fable. But if one doesn't believe in a supernatural being or is unwilling to concede that such may exist, then from their paradigm or perspective it *has* to be a fable. At least you are willing to concede that if you did receive hard evidence of a supernatural being, you'd reconsider. I don't know that other atheists would be so willing; I think there would be reluctance to question their beliefs; that seems to be human nature rather than dogma - almost no one likes to admit they are wrong. Instead I think they might say that science just hasn't explained away the new evidence yet. I'm giving you a run for your money on the parenthetical length! *laf*]
There are more differences between the theories than who started the ball rolling. Age of the earth, for example. The role of natural adaptation vs the role of significant genetic mutation. The speed of significant climatic or environmental changes. It is not uncommon in science to find evidence of the effects of a particular phenomena which support the phenomena, without directly observing the phenomena itself. [To be fair, this could be used to some extent to support evolutionary theory if one thinks that it is impossible to "prove" the existence of transitional forms; but most scientist think it is possible to prove that existence and just continue to look for evidence in the fossil records]. This gets back to what does the evidence support? There *is* evidence / facts which support aspects of Biblically based creationism (or evidence which disputes opposing, commonly accepted aspects of the theory of evolution). I *do not* claim it is comprehensive or conclusive. [For myself , its not that I want everyone to be convinced of creationism; it's just that I would like to at least have the opportunity for it be given it's own consideration as a theory just as evolution is a theory (even though evolutions is frequently taught as fact)].
As for the laws in the Old Testament - or similar statements in the New Testament for that matter - you are correct. If you don't believe the Bible or agree with it's principles, then by defacto you might not find those acts sinful. FYI - as I understand it, the definition of sin is anything which separates you from God or which is against His will. There are acts/behaviors/beliefs clearly stated in the Bible as being sins (ala the 10 commandments), but there's more to it than that because your relationship with God is a very personal matter. E.g, there is nothing in the Bible that says making money is evil and sinful (in fact there are hundreds of promises of prosperity). But the love of money can be. If your love of money distances you from God and influences you to live in an ungodly manner, if you love money more than God, then it would be sinful. Same with drinking, etc. Okay, didn't mean to go on that long there - sorry for the tangent.
Also, if one is of the opinion that there is no absolutes of right or wrong (this is a philosophy that is gaining popularity), then Biblical laws are narrowminded. Unfortuantely what one person might think is fine, another would find offensive or hurtful. What defines a "good" person? Just not hurting others?? Personally, I believe there are absolute truths, absolute principles of moral right or wrong. Some of these are even built into governmental laws (e.g., thou shalt not steal). I choose to base those truths on the Bible.
Good gracious, this is just waaaaaaaaaaaaay too long at this point anyway. Well, DTS, one of these days you'll have to wander over to Scotland and we can sit in a pub and enjoy the debate over a pint or three.
Cheers, and thanks for the lively debate!
Peg
PEG: I don't _think_ you'll be walloped for being gullible (although I feel that folks who give money -- tithings -- to support a guy who basically "interperets" their bible for them do fall in the P.T. Barnum category of suckers, but that's just me being cynical -- and yes, I know that some of the money put into collection plates goes toward maintenance of the church, etc. -- by the way churches are another gripe I have...they're popping up like McDonalds here in the heartland...what a supreme waste of space -- but that's another rant for another time). I don't think you'll be maligned for being narrowminded, either (although, as I said before, the rigid standard that fundamentalist believers must stick to, whether it be the King James version of the Christian bible or otherwise, necessitates a sort of narrow-mindedness -- that is, my beliefs are right above all others -- as an atheist, I can say that while I don't believe in a supernatural, creator-type being, I'd be willing to admit I was wrong [not beg for mercy, mind you] if undeniable proof -- like a big foot or eyeball -- suddenly showed up one day; but I'd bet dollars to donuts that if a faster-than-light spacecraft landed in Times Square with documents and proof that they had "seeded" earth and started rumors which led to religions, very few believers would rethink their faith and/or relinquinsh it). (whew! That could be the longest parenthetical aside in the history of post-it-note boards). I also don't think you'll be accused of being a blind fanatic. But you might be called up for having your "facts" wrong. The theory of evolution doesn't predict _anything._ And scientists have long admitted that all the pieces of the puzzle haven't been found. But that doesn't invalidated evolution. Hell, the theory itself has evolved over the years as some of us have grown smarter and been better able to understand it. As for creationism...I'm not sure what "facts" you could submit (other than those cobbled up by proponents), but the bottom line is that creationism is centered around a supernatural creator. A god, if you will. Which means creationism falls into the realm of myth and or fable. Not science. (Sorry, don't mean to sound like I'm slamming you, but I'm sticking with the facts, m'am). As for your other points, I really don't believe that all believers are meanspirited or hateful. And I know that many church-goers are loving people who would invite the "sinners" into their pews and pray for them. But what is it, exactly, that makes (and I hate to belabor this point, but it makes for the perfect example) homosexuals sinners? Are they hurting anyone? Taking bread of their tables? Or are they not conforming to laws laid down (mostly for survival reasons) over 2000 years ago? Furthermore, why would you need to forgive a person whose sexual preference is different from your own? Is it because your guidebook (the bible) tells you so? Or perhaps your preacher? And all though many pastors or preachers refer to the New Testament, they still hold the Old Testament close to their heart. The 10 commandments, etc. They still preach hell-fire and damnation (even if it is soft-peddled) for those who wont give up their "sinful" ways and/or accept Christ as their savior and thereby be granted everlasting life (which brings us full to that "exclusive" club atmosphere) -- you even mention in your post that "it's up to God to judge them." I don't mean to go on and on, Peg, it's just that...we humans have enough going against us already. Our own stupidity, our own mean-spiritedness that rises up in the best of us, our petty grudges and our racial prejudices, our inability to sometimes see beyond the borders of our own yard (thereby missing the big picture)...we don't need the "help" of religious dogma and questionable "wisdom" that is thousands of years old giving us more reasons to dislike, distrust, disavow, disjoin or just plain or "dis" each other. We do just fine without the help of organized religion. And, really, after more than 2000 years don't you think it's time the adults among us (children should be exempt) stopped believing in Santa Claus? (Not the spirit of Christmas, just the icon and all of its trappings). Out here, DTS.
As the token, lurking, fundamentalist christian on the board, I feel compelled to add my 2 pence worth. My opinion, my experience, my learnings as a christian, take it for what you will. Please don't beat other people over the head with it. It's long so if you're not interested, just skip to the next post.
I think my main problem with what has been said is that most folks attribute to Christian faith or religion what is attributible to people. It is sad that so many folks act in such an unchristian way in the name of Christ. There are just as many corruptible people who are Christians as aren't.
I've listed below a few things I've been taught as a Christian. It departs so radically from what several people have described in their postings.--Christianity is a faith based on the Bible, founded in belief in Christ as my savior. It is not ritual or religion. Religion is what people do to faith. As the saying goes, the only problem with religion is people. There is nothing in the Bible that says thou shalt genuflect at an altar - that
was added by people. In fact, there are only 2 key "rituals" in the New Testament actually proscribed by Christ; baptism and communion. (This is also why I usually attend non-denominational churches).--I have not been taught to be intolerant. The Bible has taught me to love my neighbors and my enemies and myself. It has taught me to despise the sin but love the sinner. (For example, I do not hate individuals who have chosen to be homosexuals. I do, however, disapprove of their lifestyle). I
should judge actions - such as abortion - and not people; so at worst I amintolerant of the sinful acts but not the sinful person. --We are all sinners, believers and non-believers, and I am no better than my fellow man. The Bible has not taught me to feel superior to others; I cannot boast in my own works, only in God. Hence the familiar "There but for the grace of God go I".
--Anger can be justified but hatred cannot. The Bible has taught me to forgive others as I am forgiven. It has taught me to not hold a grudge or seek revenge. God gave man free will, so it is up to each individual whether or not they will act in a Biblical, christian manner. And it will be God to judge them, not me. I can only try to influence. --As to separation of church and state, the Bible has taught me I should follow the laws of man except where they conflict with the laws of God.
E.g., if the law required me to deny God, then I would be compelled to disobey. But there's nothing in the Bible that tells me creationism has to be taught in school, or that prayer (or, more correctly these days, a silent meditative moment) is required, though I may want these things based on my Christian and political beliefs.
A couple of last side points - The basis of the Christian faith is clearly the New Testament. Many pastors do refer to the Old Testament as it is part of the Bible and serves as a foundation for the New Testament, telling of what came before and having valuable lessons and examples. My experience has been that the Old Testament is referred to in context of the times and situations of when the text was written. - The theories of evolution and creationism. Not going too deep here. There are facts & evidence which support creationism and don't support
evolution. There is far more evidence which supports natural adaptation (e.g., color changes) than there is which supports major evolutionary steps. (Given what the theory of evolution predicts, there is a serious lack of transitional form in the fossil records). Natural adaptation is not mutually exclusive from creationism.
Okay, I'm sure I'll get walloped for days as being a gullible, narrowminded, blind fanatic, so I better stop while I'm alive...
Peg
Science has brought me closer to religion. That comment about Sagan's COSMOS being contemplative rang clear to me. Whether you're considering the supermacro or the submicro, the "design" of stuff (the life, the universe, and everything) which allows enough flexibility for chaos is mind boggling. That we walk in it, breathe in it, sing in it, and love in it is amazing grace. It's amazing we haven't screwed it up anymore than we have.
If it's merely a random thing instead of a finely planned arrangement, well, we're still in a state of random grace. Sometimes, random grace is all you can hope for. Blessing or Luck? Same thing.
But then again, I'm not a Biblical literalist despite my parents' best efforts to raise me as one. I'm a lapsed Calvinist/Baptist turned Episcopalian with Unitarian leanings. Church to me is a meaningful ritual of play in the face of a something my puny little brain can't really grasp.
"I believe in G.., the progenitor, the Almighty,
Creator of heaven and earth; of all that is seen and of all that is unseen...."
Works for me, but I realize it's not everybody's way.
'Demon With A Glass Hand' response: Well, I'm glad you straightend it all out for me. But I'm still glad I asked. The equation works, and the Kyben definitely knew where it was at!
As a rule, I don't like comparing the hour-long OL series and Twilight Zone, the latter mainly being fantasy, with SF episodes mostly inferior (couple of good exceptions). The intellectual style of the OL, with a cold control voice that sounds like a university science professor (Vic Perrin) set a new standard in tone for SF on TV (it was also more violent). I liken the OL more to early Star Trek episodes, like 'The Cage' and 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' (for which, of a matter of fact, several Outer Limits people had worked). In some ways 'The Cage' was a revamp of OLs' 'Nightmare' episode. It also shares a little with Britain's Quartermass series. I realize this is quibbling, but that's my angle on it as a fan. I watch Twilight Zone more for its fantasy shows. Also, characters in OL were more dimensional. (Side-note: I also believe Outer Limits was the only anthology series in history to have a two-parter, the brilliant "Inheritors" - unless there was one in recent years).
The reason I dislike the knew version is because of a ridiculous religious tone it often tends to have (ending with messages like "it should be left to the all-mighty", the original respected science); and a stupid-sounding narrator, meant to sound "chilling" (campy as hell); and an abysmal single-layered music score (a let-down when you're familiar with Dominic Frontiere's stuff in the original, and Lubin's theramin in the second season).
Oh yeah, there are a couple articles by HE in latest Absolute Magnitude. I believe they are reprints on writing.
HE is listed as a performer on Bova's latest, Venus, out on audio tapes (abridged version) in May.
Rob - Just wanted to note that for many people (myself included) praying is a form of contemplative thinking, as well as worship. Think of it as a intentionally set-up dialogue where you have to assume the other person is listening, so that you're basically bouncing ideas off yourself (yez, I realize is this not very orthodox praying - sue me, I was taught by Jesuits).
Rob asked me to post his original response to Maggie as it was sent accidentally as an e-mail. Here is is:
==================================
I saw no forwarding address from Maggie, so I'm responding quickly by this route.
Maggie, the argument in my ramblings had nothing to do with reductionist concepts like good v. evil (I was just using exemplary retorts in typical arguments defending religion), I'm just stressing the tragedy that superstition remains such a great need for people - that seeking knowledge scientifically can't bring them the bliss that worship can. (A long time ago when I saw Sagan's meditative 'Cosmos' as a kid, I recall feeling more inspired and spiritually enhanced than any religious sermon could ever give me; it inspired me to think, not pray). It's what I was thinking about when I was watching 'Inherit The Wind'. Diversity of ideas is something I'm all for. But pursuing knowledge through rationalism and accepting things on blind faith are inverse processes, and I don't like the stagnation blind faith in superbeings tends to impose on our social evolution. In this respect, yes, my sweeping scorn for religion holds. It's true, I AM new on this site and I didn't realize this subject was beaten to death by now. But I should've known better.
Rob - Seeing as the time-mirror trip was one-way (unless one counts going up soft, like jelly), and seeing that the Kyben were apparently cautious about technology (witness grabbing the last finger from its courier as it comes through the mirror, just in case there's a problem with the transmission), this never bothered me: I figured bringing small, portable technology 1,000 years advanced into the past could - if such devices fell into human hands - shift the tide of war in the future. The Kyben had humanity smoked. Give mankind a weapon from that far in the future in the sixties, and who knows where their technology would be when the Kyben finally arrive from the stars? Why take the chance with a sidearm when the only thing between you and losing a war for your entire planet was a medallion attached to a simple chain, and the locals can just as easily be shot with a handgun as a fancy particle beam sidearm? Obviously technological components could come back - the time mirror and whatever created the force bubble around the building didn't build themselves; though if the time mirror was needed to arrive in the past, how did the first one get there? Ultimately, I figure 'why ask why?' because the answers will only lead to more deconstructive questions.
And "OBIT" was my first OL episode, long ago and far away; a wonderful series that doesn't often get its deserved accolades. The original OL struck the same chord in me as the original Twilight Zone - SF or fantasy, monsters, gimmicks or twists, there was always attention paid to the examination of humanity, good and bad. "The Architects Of Fear" is as noble and tragic a tale of sacrifice and man's good intentions run horribly awry (in which everyone loses) as I can recall. Too bad the Sci Fi Channel hasn't latched on to the series and given it a proper treatment. The new OL, while it has glimmers, seems to try too hard to be poignant. Or maybe I'm just growing old and cynical...
MAGGIE: You're right. Good things have been done by religious people. And if believing in a god keeps someone happy and well-balanced, that's a _good_ thing, too. But when religious people force their views on others, which christians (especially western hemisphere, fundamentalist christians) tend to do (just pick up a paper or turn on the news and you'll find evidence), then it's a _bad_ thing. Just as it was a bad thing for christian missionaries to force thier beliefs on other cultures in other countries, because they were dead certain that _their_ god was the one true god. Of course, western hemisphere christians aren't the only offenders. Islamic fundamentalists are just as bad...and none of those people wants to sit down and evaluate their beliefs or their bibles (which have been unchanged for thousands of years) because they fear such evaluation or questioning of their own faith will result in eternal damnation...yet they have no problem questioning the beliefs of others, even forcing others to relinquish their beliefs...But now _I'm_ repeating myself (hoping you'll get the point). To wit: most major religions are intolerant and exclusive, and therefore destructive in some way. (And while the New Testament of the christian bible is a lot kinder than the old testament, you'll find that most preachers and priests still refer the old testatment -- they haven't thrown it, and its teachings, out the way school systems get rid of old text books). But I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because it sounds like you're not giving any ground (after all, you actually said Mengele was a scientist and that things done in the name of religion -- what, the Inquisition? Burning "witches" or Joan of Arc at the stake? -- were done without malice aforethought, like thalidomide babies -- I could counter by saying the Rev. Jim Jones was a minister or a preist and that...well, you see my point...I hope). Out here, DTS.
This is a re-cap Outer Limits message I'd left earlier at the wrong e-mail address: I never knew about any negative sentiment between Joseph Stefano and Ellison either, then recalled negative comments Ellison once wrote about the first OL season, while extolling the second. First of all, I'm an OL fanatic (the original series, not the new one)- of BOTH seasons - and a huge admirer of both these writers. They're both driven by their own vision. Secondly, this was one of the rarer times I'd adamantly disagreed with Ellison. His disposal of the first season as "just all boogie men and monsters" (I read The Glass Teat in the early 80's)was unusually short-sighted and unfair. Those shows had many layers, were beautifully written, and comprised one of the most neurotic series in TV history. (X-Files, as a comparative side-note, is filled with boogie men and monsters, but makes up for it in content, as did the OUTER LIMITS; many of its sci-fi episodes are a lot like the OL, though not as deep, and I know the show is an Ellison favorite). Stefano IS an excellent craftsman. He did do a brilliant job on Hitchcock's Psycho. In fact, if you look at his shows in the OL carefully (basically, he wrote all of the first season, because he invariably re-wrote scripts submitted from other writers when not doing his own),and LISTEN to the dialogue,you'll see much of Psycho in the OL: layers of neuroses and characters coping with inner pain - their inner traps, if you will(monsters from distant galaxies often being used as metaphors). And then there was the brilliant Conrad Hall photography, something no other TV show ever had. (Sorry about all this, I used to be a film student - so, there IS a bit of fanaticsm brewin' here). Episodes like NIGHTMARE with Martin Sheen, OBIT, CORPUS EARTHLING, with our main man, Robert Culp, FEASIBILITY STUDY, THE INVISIBLES, and THE CHAMELEON, with Robert Duvall are really beautiful sci-fi pieces: dark, brooding, and meditative.
What I'm saying is I'm a huge fan of both seasons, of both these writers. And it's a drag this sentiment castrated what could have been a great event. Stefano's extreme demands were frustrating and disappointing, but he's still a talented man.
Now: I also tossed a semi-trivia question re: Ellisons DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND. Obviously, it's a great show. But I always had one question: What are technologically superior beings from 1,000 years in the future doing with primitive pistols in the 20th century? Is it that the weapons of the Kyben had some element that couldn't pass through the time mirror? So, maybe they had to break into an armory or gun shop in order to kill Trent? Who knows? There should have been some quick explanation somewhere in the dialogue, just so that it didn't look so peculiar, leaving us to stew in our own rationalizations and not let it be a distraction from a great plot.
Ok, this is undoubtedly all my fault for not expressing myself clearly. The point I was trying to make doesn't have anything at all to do with the rightness or wrongness of religion vs science. The point I was trying to make is actually more of a philosophical (sp?) one than anything else. Kind of back to that whole really stupid question about the tree falling. And this group, of all people, ought to get it. Unless I totally fail at explaining again of course!
I don't think that religion is, in and of itself wrong. Nor do I think that people who profess a religious faith are bad, or unsophisticated or any other word that we use to describe them. Yes, bad things have been done in the name of various religious beliefs, etc. However, you're all getting bogged down in the words (and don't tell me scientists have never done anything bad. Want to talk about Mengele? And you can make a case that some wretched things that have been done in a religion's name were done with the same good intent that led to thalidomide babies, etc, so just don't start! ).
The point is that ranting about the evils of religion and the stupidity/gulliblity of those who follow it, is EXACTLY the same thing as some bible thumper referring to non-believers as sinners. EXACTLY. It's the human need to be part of a group, and a superior group at that. It is fair of Sue to call it the religion of science, because if you say that this is fact and that is fact and that all these other people are therefore wrong, then you're are essentially engaging in the same behavior as the Christian who participates in the KKK. After all, Christ said love one another. It doesn't say in there anywhere, only love those who look just like you, therefore, they profess a faith they do not actually believe. Well, science and the scientific community tend to be sceptical, they tend to avoid pronouncements of definitives. Seems like we're having global warming to me, and it seems like we, humans, caused it. However, the scientific community seems a lot less convinced. Really good scientists, in my experience, tend to talk a lot in terms like probably and most likely, etc. And it's not like science hasn't, plenty of times, gone back and said that some previously accepted fact turns out to be dead wrong. That's the nature of science.
At any rate, now that I've completely garbled this and muddied the waters beyond belief, I'd just like to see less broad brush strokes here and more exactness. Some people are stupid and venal and mean spirited and cruel and narrow minded. And some of them are Christians and Jews and Hindus and Moslems and atheists and every other color, creed and gender on earth.
Religion and science have both been the excuse for evil things and good things. Do you really want to pit every piece of art, music, architecture, literature, charity, etc performed in the name of a religion against those in the name of science?
Again, if something - religion, science, the flight of a butterfly for pete's sake - encourages a person to be a responsible, civil, honorable and kind human being, then I'm all for it. I don't care if they're off worshipping toad droppings, if when they get up from their devotions, they go off and try to make the world a better place, then more power to them and hurray for toad poop. Nothing in life is black and white, not even science.
Ok then! Down off of the soap box, slink off into the night hoping that this time I've been clear and not hopelessly muddled things!
We interrupt this diatribe to bring you some Harlan Ellison stuff: On 24 April 2000, the local village idiot in Denver, Greg Moody, who works for KCNC, bemoaning the demise of Star Trek: Voyager, talking about the possibility of a prequel series, suggested, "They ought bring as creator and producer, Harlan Ellison".
We now return you to your regularly scheduled stuff.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
One other difference worthy of noting between science and religion: science is much more willing to challenge itself on its beliefs in light of new discoveries or advances that are contrary to the established doctrine. Religion retreats from such things with a vengeance.
Consider science: scientific opinion has held for a long time that dinosaurs were cold blooded. Last week, new research suggests that at least one dinosaur may have been warm-blooded, based on x-rays of well preserved, fossilized remains that yielded images of what appears to be a four-chambered, mammalian-style heart. The reaction? Science gets excited, begins to examine the new technique and the new data for validity, searches for corroborating evidence in what's know, theorizes the implications if the information is true, and will eventually accept that the hypothesis is true, or debunk it and sweep it aside. Science itself is an example of evolution of human thought, always seeking to understand.
Now, consider religion (and I use Catholicism as my example because it's what I know): as an example, one of the tenets of Catholics is that Jesus was a chaste individual. If the discovery of scrolls in the walls of Jerusalem was made today, scrolls that dated to 62 AD and presented information that Jesus not only had a wife, but had a son as well, how would the Catholic church respond? First, the scrolls would probably not be made public. If the church couldn't prevent that, they would be considered anomalous and dismissed as incorrect, unsubstantiated, or (my personal favorite) "uninspired". There would be little or no investigation of the validity of the claim the scrolls made, and Catholics in any way supporting them would run the risk of being excommunicated (less so today than fifty years ago, but the risk still exists). Because dogma that easily accepts challenge or change is not tenable as a "faith". Faith does not ask. Faith does not seek answers from without, only from within. It is belief without substantiation, and it doesn't want substantiation, for one risks refutation in that pursuit, and refutation is "bad". (So is history, in the case of Catholicism - St. Patrick's certainly didn't teach me in my twelve years of attendance that there were Popes who fathered children or exhumed their dead predecessors so the rotting corpse could be excommunicated. Needed outside study for those tidbits.)
Science does not say the God does not exist. Not yet, anyway, but I don't think it'll come down to that. While science challenges the the Bible, the creation myth, the time frames it puts forth, etc., it also looks for the truth behind those writings, the inspiration for them. Witness multiple searches for Noah's ark, undertaken by elements of the scientific community.
But religion steadfastly denies that scientific thought has any validity (the Catholics didn't acknowledge the accuracy of Galileo's work until 1996. And no, that isn't a typo.) And religion cannot embrace science with open arms without cutting its own throat in the process. Science is a direct threat, whether it intends to be or not.
SUE: Wrong. You _can't_ make the same argument that science has been as intolerant of other beliefs as various religions (at least you can't if you're willing to stick with facts). After all, the "religion of science" (as you called it -- and by the way, I consider such words blasphemous) has never had a crusade or inquisition (in which thousands of nonbelievers were killed or tortured)performed in its name. The "missionaries" of the science movement _haven't_ traveled to other countries (like Africa) and told the natives that they can get education,etc. if only they will convert. The "priests" of science have never put anyone on trial and burned them at the stake. And the followers of this "religion" haven't killed other humans because of their sexual mores or in the name of some ominous "right-to-life" movement. Nearly all major religions are exclusive and intolerant in some way or another. Because their rule books (bibles, etc) were written by men, and were designed to keep societies (of long ago) in line with what the elders believed was correct. Those same religions force themselves on people by solicitation and emotional blackmail ("if you repent your sins, and swear allegiance to_______ [fill in the black] then you will enjoy everlasting life in the hereafter). Science doesn't force itself on others. It doesn't condemn people for being human and making mistakes, or being human and being different. Religion is _not_ science. And science will _never_ be religion. Now, Sue, go to your room and transcribe 50 pages from THE ORIGIN OF THE SPECIES. Out here, DTS.
Well boy howdy. Yet another soapbox for the religion of Science. And yes, despite protestations of the faithful to the contrary, 'Science' satisfies all the criteria of a religion. Your have your dogma's (absolute truths), your doctrines (widely accepted theories), a 'priestly' class devoted exclusively to the practise on behalf of the multitudes after leangthy innitiation and training, and the faithful waiting for the all their ills to be cured through their blind faith, contributing their worldly goods to the support and advancement of their beliefs, and also intolerant of any other flavor of religion, believing themselves to be "more right". I can make the same arguements for and against Science that I can about religion - because human beings are involved, flawed and beautiful beings searching for answers. Where they are currently focused on searching is quite secondary to the common human drive for knowlege and understanding that makes them feel secure and one with their environment.
Tolerance is not a "religious" issue - it's a human issue, with the same success/failure rate everywhere you find humans. Like it or not, agnostics and atheists choose their beliefs the same as 'religious' people do, are no more or less prone to human failings, and are not "saved" from their own human nature by an affiliation with science.
If tolerance is is the goal, the best way to achieve it is by simply practising it yourself.
Maggie,
With regard to your comment on not observing evolution, this is from Stephen Jay Goulds article on the Kansas Board decision:
"The major argument advanced by the school board--that large-scale evolution must be dubious because the process has not been directly observed--smacks of absurdity and only reveals ignorance about the nature of science. Good science integrates observation with inference. No process that unfolds over such long stretches of time (mostly, in this case, before humans appeared), or at an infinitude beneath our powers of direct visualization (subatomic particles, for example), can be seen directly. If justification required eyewitness testimony, we would have no sciences of deep time--no geology, no ancient human history either. (Should I believe Julius Caesar ever existed? The hard bony evidence for human evolution, as described in the preceding pages, surely exceeds our reliable documentation of Caesar's life.)"
The full article is at :
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articles/0,3266,29479,00.html
MAGGIE: Actually, from what I've read (from the King James version of the Christian bible to the Koran), most _major_ relgions tend to teach intolerance and exclusion -- that's why so many folks in America (and quite a few other countries) have a problem with say, homosexuals. Cause they bone-headedly continue to follow a creed developed thousands of years ago. Creeds preached to them by preachers, priests, etc, who read from texts that have never once been updated to allow for new knowledge and past ignorance. The way books of science and history often are. (I _don't_ include Buhddism -- hope I spelled that right -- in that list of major, intolerant relgions). Out here, DTS.
Rob - I don't recall reading any postings by you before, so I'm assuming that you're new, or else my creeping senility is showing itself! We've covered lots of this ground before and, if I may say so, you're mostly preaching to the choir here, however, I've a few things to say, so I'm going to!
First, humanity is just as evil as it is good. I'm really, really tired of these artificial divisions into us and them - black, white, christian, muslim, buddhist, atheist, american, foreign. At the end of the day, they're mostly meaningless. We are all humans and are all the same damned/blessed species. I agree that creationism shouldn't be taught in the schools, but not because it's archaic or unsophisticated or not true, but because it violates seperation of church and state, which to my mind is a far more precious commodity.
I am not christian, or muslim or anything at all like that. However, you're sweeping inditement of religion is every bit as extreme as those fanatics who think that jihad is a good way of acquiring members or who want to legislate my beliefs. Human beings have, unfortunately, been killing and attempting to control one another since we dragged our sorry butts out of the muck. Not all of them have been even remotely religious - you're a victim again of your own education and need to do more research. Think that Genghis Khan went on his rampage out of religious conviction? People who are evil or want to control will always find an excuse to do what they want, no matter what. And people of good intent will find reasons for what they do no matter what.
We, as a species, are capable of using just about anything for evil or good. Religion has been used as an excuse for lots of things - some of the most exquisite music, art, buildings, etc, ever created by our species were created in celebration of profound religious belief. Have you ever listened to the Messiah? Stood and looked up into the vast arched wonder that is Notre Dame and seen the glory of the stained glass windows, the wonder of the building itself?
Human beings have used religion as an excuse for evil, and some still do. They would find and excuse of some kind if the religion didn't exist. Religion has been just as responsible for millions of lives lived with kindness and honor as it has for murder, rape, theft, mutilation, etc.
If something helps a person be honorable and decent and civilized, helps them deal honestly with others, then it's none of my business if they believe that god's a cockroach. Actions speak louder than words and condemning people as stupid because they believe differently than yourself is EXACTLY what you've just ranted about.
You do not have personal experience with evolution and cannot prove it is so. You can look at the evidence and say it seems like it happened that way. Ever read any of the current discussion about dinosaurs and birds for example? I know christians who believe that god works via natural laws and that he measures days in millenia and that he did arrange the creation and evolution of species on earth. Did you see life begin on earth? Can you prove that a divine being didn't start the chemical processes that led to amino acids and amoebas and life in general? I don't think that there's any scientist on earth who can.
I choose not to believe in organized religions of any sort, but there is something profoundly miraculous about the change of the seasons, the flight of birds or change of an egg to a caterpillar to a butterfly. I have marvelled at the growth of tomato plants and the change from small yellow flowers to beautiful, tasty red fruit. I have watched in wonder the grace of my cat, and held a newborn human in my arms and been so moved by the miracle of it all that I wept.
Our greatest strengths and our greates weaknesses as a species lies in our diversity. I believe that we have the potential to outgrow the murderous tendencies, the fears and terrors that lie at it's roots. But religion? I have no problems with religion at all, and as long as it offers comfort and encourages honor and kindness - and if you actually read the texts of most major religions, they all encourage loving interactions with non-believers - we just corrupt it with daily life. Anything that encourages light, I'll support that with my whole heart and mind.
Boy, I do ramble on, don't I? Sorry. Just wanted to speak my piece before somebody says it ever so much better than me.
Masturbatory Musing on the Stride of Religion in the Country:
The other night I taped a film called 'Inherit the Wind' (made in 1960) on TCM. I saw it for the first time only a year ago. It's about (or I should say based on) the 1925 Scopes trial, which first brought into the spotlight the issue of creationism v evolution in the schools. What disturbed me is how relevant I found it to be today…here in the 21st century. I think it was a year ago when Kansas turned over a law to allow creationism to be taught in schools. And the seemingly rapacious need for religion is sweeping the country now. Even when I was a kid I actually thought creationism v evolution in the schools was obsolete. I thought we were getting a little more sophisticated. But as with almost all things, the human race is caught in this loop, wherein history is forgotten and the same mistakes are made over and over. It’s a repetitive loop that goes back 50,000 years.
I think it would be fine to teach the historical incidents SURROUNDING creationism and religion in general (teaching kids about the Scopes trial in social studies, for example) because many atrocities and abuses of law sprouted from religion. One time I said this, a guy counter-pointed: "but we need religion to set moral standards for ourselves, because it is in human nature to sin". Well, it isn’t difficult to teach high standards of ethics without tying them in with mythology and superstition. There have been plenty of agnostics and atheists who were kinder to their fellow man than many religious people. People like Clarence Darrow and Carl Sagan were a couple of examples. It’s also been argued, "sure, but you’ve also had your Hitlers and Stalins." Well, we’ve also had our Constantines, our Crusades, and our Puritans who murdered masses whose thinking didn’t conform. Just ask Galileo how nice religious people could be. One thing is certain, the less history we read or learn about the less we have to think about (and as a secondary note, consider what is omitted when schools DO teach history to young kids; we learn of the great things the American forefathers did, but not much about how they treated anyone who wasn’t white and what they did for self-gain). That’s the convenience religion serves: you don’t have to think. The tragedy is you can talk rationality till your face is a solid blue and still religious folk will walk with deaf ears. Face it: the brain creates its own reality. It tends to compensate for any missing information, and what seems real is sheer interpretation. Consequently, we all see the external world a little differently. That’s why the scientific process should be embraced. You’d think people would be enthralled to pursue the unknown universe, to attain knowledge we don’t have. Unfortunately, it’s not enough. Most folk need it to be there already for life to mean anything to them. Nature played a dirty trick on us 50,000 years ago. It evolved human consciousness and the ability to perceive its own mortality. We’ve always needed to believe there was more - that there is some eternal afterlife. Who could really face the notion of a fleeting existence, only to return to nothing? Pretty horrific, ain’t it?
But back to the issue of what we’re supposed to be learning in the schools.
The public school system, by definition and purpose, is designed to teach to kids skills, facts and anything supported by facts. The Theory of Evolution is supported by volumes of fact. It is therefore taught in schools. Creationism is driven by belief and faith. Since public schools deal with factually based material they, by category, must exclude Creationism entirely from the curriculum. If it were not excluded, then we would have to re-define the purpose of the schools.
According to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution, all life forms undergo continuous genetic adaptation to the environment as it changes, by means of natural selection or survival of the fittest. The theory explains how life evolved from organic chemicals from amino acids in Earth’s early atmosphere; it explains photosynthesis of plants; it explains how organic matter could evolve once the ozone formed in the atmosphere millions of years ago to screen out ultraviolet radiation from the sun. Every component of this theory has proven itself accurate so far because these chemical reactions are being duplicated in bio labs today. These are the facts we learn about in public schools.
Creationism is a movement that had a strong influence in the country in the early part of the century. Fundamentalists were committed to the literal interpretation of the Bible and its account for Earth’s beginnings when God placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden around 4004 B.C. Through the 1920’s the movement successfully condemned the teaching of Darwinism as "improper and subversive" and the state of Tennessee led the way in making the teaching of human evolution a punishable crime. The adoption of text books that promoted evolution was prohibited by Oklahoma, Florida, and Arkansas. Anti-evolutionists were praised in New York and Los Angeles.
Evolution was stamped as evil and subversive thinking. In 1926 the leader of the Ku Klux Klan announced that "within two years, from Maine to California and from the Great Lakes to the Gulf, there will be lighted in this country countless bonfires, devouring those damnable and detestable books on evolution."
Until 1925, it was illegal to teach Darwin’s Theory of Evolution in the schools. Then a famous trial took place in Tennessee that drew worldwide media attention like the O.J. Simpson trial. It was called the Scopes "Monkey" trial (referring to the concept of man evolving from primates). It had to do with the voluntary arrest of a biology teacher named John Thomas Scopes who’d violated the law by teaching a lesson about Evolution. It turned into an explosively emotional trial between the famous attorney Clarence Darrow, who argued in behalf of Darwin’s theory, and a prosecutor named William Jennings Bryan who was a fundamentalist attempting to offer a rational argument for the literal interpretation of Creation out of the Bible. Darrow took apart Bryan’s argument in front of massive crowds, to the embarrassment of the religious right, and led a road to reversals in the law. This is what was brilliantly dramatized in Inherit the Wind. The Theory of Evolution soon appeared in biology texts all over the country. The crucial element of the trial was the test of validity between Evolution and Creationism, and how much could be supported by facts. The event encapsulated the very reason Creationism has no place in public schools.
Fundamentalists at that time were called "anti-evolutionists" and they were committed to keeping evolution out of the schools by legislation. To support their position, they attempted to give a rational argument, as they do to this
day, that could explain all the facts that constitute Darwin’s theory, like the fossils. The courtroom hearing between Darrow and Bryan was like a model
that set an inevitable direction the argument would take anytime it came up in the future. That is the inherent reason the Creationists lost the fight back then.
To demonstrate the typical direction this argument would take I want to quote a few important moments between Darrow and Bryan :
The pivotal point of the trial was when Bryan dramatically rose and announced that, in his words, "was willing to take a stand in defense of the true faith and against all agnostics and infidels." He went to the front of the court room and allowed Darrow to question him as he tried to defend the Bible as literal history. The following went this way (after watching ‘Inherit’ I looked up the actual account of the trial):
Darrow: do you believe that the first woman was Even and that she was literally created from Adams’s rib?"
Bryan: Yes
Darrow: Did you ever discover where Cain got his wife?
Bryan: No, sir. I leave the agnostics to hunt for her
Darrow: Do you believe the sun was created on the fourth day?
Bryan: Yes. But I do not necessarily think it means a 24-hour day. (He eventually conceded that creation may have gone on for millions of years and also admitted knowing nothing of ancient civilization or other religions.
Darrow asked him about the temptation of Eve by the serpent. Darrow replied: "I will believe just what the Bible says. Read the Bible and I will answer."
When he dodged any reliance on facts to prove his argument and took refuge in his faith, Bryan’s case was in shambles and it led to the embarrassment of the fundamentalists, whose movement went on a downward spiral thereafter. I want to emphasize that this took place in spite of the judge refusing to hear the testimony of scientists, which the defense had hoped would prove the truthfulness of evolution. To determine what belongs in public schools it is important to review history and where information was derived. It has been a repetitive cycle in human behavior to react almost convulsively to any idea that would challenge old beliefs or institutions. And to forget history as fast as we can. A strong parallel to the Evolution issue is found in the conclusions of Copernicus many centuries ago. He theorized planetary movements and concluded that the earth circles the sun. That was heresy at the time. Years later the astronomer Galileo observed the planetary bodies through a telescope and concluded Copernicus was right. The church forced him to get on his knees - and he was a man in his 80’s - and retract his statement publicly. It took a long time for the facts to catch up with the church until it could no longer deny them. But its reaction and control on the ideas were exercised for 2,000 years. That’s two millennia of holding humanity in ignorance, even though there’s "no way they could have been wrong." (Now or then, inherently, this is what religion is all about).
Many people tend to argue that to teach Evolution without teaching Creationism is unfair bias. The purpose of public schools, by definition, is to teach kids facts and skills. The Theory of Evolution legitimizes itself with facts because scientists are using chemical principals drawn from the theory that work. By category it belongs in the schools. Not one aspect of the Creationists’ argument is proven as a fact. Since the public school deals with facts, Creationism, by category, simply does not belong in public schools. To change that is to change the very purpose of a public school.
The first thing people have to remember, no matter what their faiths, is that kids in school come from many different backgrounds and many different beliefs. No one parent would tolerate having someone else’s tenets imposed on them or their kids. To teach one faith through the public schools would be to dominate all other faiths. That is the very purpose for keeping a separation of church and state. Creationism is a faith. If we allow it to be taught in public schools we breach the very thing that allows us all to our individual beliefs. Everyone wants to believe his or her faith is the true one; but if it’s your faith or your neighbor’s that controls our laws for education we pave the way to a theocracy and new era of stone-throwing and condemnation.
Einstein once said: "insanity is when you keep trying to do the same thing over and over, and expect a different result." This is the virtue of learning and self-scrutiny is the only way we can avoid a return to the dark ages. No single faith should be able to dictate law where students from so many backgrounds gather to be on equal terms. This is the most important reason that public schools are here to teach us about external reality not theological debate. All of us thrive on belief in some way, but in our commitment to our convictions we often forget that there are other points-of-views and that there are many things we don’t know. In our convictions we all need to hold on to some humility in order to have an open mind…because you may find out later that you were wrong about a thing or two. Until we all concede that and feel ready to move on, we’re going to pretty much remain a bunch of primitive bastards.
For the record, "The Far Side" guy is Gary Larson, who obviously does owe a debt to Edward Gorey, as well as Maurice Sendack, Shel Silverstein and various other great artists of the 20th century who had their work marginalized as being for children and teenagers.
A great artist, Gorey. I always think of "The Curious Sofa" as aone of the great classics of midnight-black humor - not safe, twlight-dark comedy - but really deep, velvet black comedy.
ALL: Sad news about Edward Gorey -- damn fine cartoonist. Gorey was wierd before the "Farside Guy" was a twinkle in his daddy's eye. Jeff, picked up a copy of the L.A. newspaper's book review section. Ellison's does sound like an interesting book (instead of forthcoming, they listed it as unpublished -- hope that means it's finished). And Bradbury's book (LET'S ALL KILL CONSTANCE) has a great opening as well -- one of his best since SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES or DANDELION WINE. By the way, in that posting below, when I mention a fictional collaboration between Irving and the W Brothers (of Matrix fame), I meant DARWIN'S BLADE (not Baldy). I'm firing my typist. Out here, DTS.
Alejandro, DTS: "The Man Who Searched for Sweetness" was specifically identified as a forthcoming NOVEL by the LA Times Book Review, which also published the opening passage. Publication date was not given.
November? But I want one now! MOM! DTS has all the COOL toys!
Sad news....author/illustrator Edward Gorey had died.
ALEJANDRO: re. your post below. Don't assume that "The Man Who Searched For Sweetness" by Ellison is a book. It could very well be a forthcoming _short storyy_. -- Out here, DTS.
ALL: This isn't pertinent as the posting below, but Dan Simmons forthcoming book (November, from William Morrow) entitled DARWIN'S BLADE mentions (in chapter 16) both Leonard Nimoy and...Harlan Ellison. Can't tell you why they are mentioned (or else I'd give away some of the plot), but I _can_ tell you that the book is absolutely dynamite (as are all of Simmons works). It features former NTSB investigator (who now works for a private firm in California), Darwin "Dar" Minor, who inadvertently gets the attention of ring of insurance fraud criminals and bosses -- some of whom may be the country's most well-known lawyers. To make things worse, the "gang" includes former hit-men from the Russian mafia. If John Irving and the guys who made "the Matrix" had collaborated on a novel, the end result would be DARWIN'S BALDE. I only got my super-early copy on Saturday and I'm almost finished with all 633 manuscript pages. It's a good one. Show up at your local bookstores in November, pick up a copy, and tell 'em DTS sent ya -- Aloha.
This just in from the Locus website:
Los Angeles Times Book Review, April 16, 2000
A special ''L.A. Lit 2000'' issue features excerpts (most only a few paragraphs long) from forthcoming works by a host of southern California writers, including Ray Bradbury (Let's All Kill Constance!), Clive Barker (Coldheart Canyon), Dean Koontz (From the Corner of His Eye), Harlan Ellison (The Man Who Searched for Sweetness), and Gregory Benford (Eater). Unfortunately this portion of the Book Review isn't online.
Anybody have any info on Unca Harlan's book?
Thanks, Peter.
Alejandro, I must admit I began reading comics with a DC sf anthology book, and began reading them regularly with horror anthologies, WEREWOLF BY NIGHT, and WEIRD WAR TALES (both of which were pretty damned close to the horror anthologies)...but I'll guess most folks began with the superheroes or ARCHIE or Disney comics...as an almost reverse to your plaint, comics stores are almost the only places I've seen ARCHIE COMICS these days, even with ABC's SABRINA shows and the odd short-lived SCOOBY-DO ripoff on the PAX television network, ARCHIE'S WEIRD MYSTERIES. I guess they may mostly sell to the nostalgic, rather than to the kids...
Beyond 2000 debuts here in the bay area tonight on KQED FM 88.5 pm at 9 pm. They'll be playing it every Saturday at the same time.
Todd, the name you're not remembering is Craig Charles who plays Lister on Red Dwarf.
---Peter
furor scribendi
Null-Ellisoniana (perhaps even, by GLASS TEAT/STRANGE WINE standards, antiEllisonia), but there's a lapse I can no longer let go...Alex, as you manfully admitted your helplessness in the face of the third way of pro wrasslin', you also admitted a fondness for "The Way Things Go," which can be either fascinating, frustratingly slow, or both depending on mood, and which was first broadcast in the US (anywhere?) as an episode in the first season of the rather uneven PBS performing-arts series ALIVE FROM OFF CENTER, ca. 1980. WHYY in Philly/Wilmington seems to own a copy now, and they tend to stick it in to odd nooks in the schedule, so you may be able to tape it for odd victims.
But to truly meld ECW with "The Way Things Go," check out the other item WHYY is plugging into every hole in their schedule (to the affected horror of THE PHILADELPHIA INQUIRER), ROBOT WARS. Squat little wheeled (usually) robots compete against each other and overmatching "house robots" to see which can survive the longest in what amounts to a demolition derby...rather as if the British producers wished to repackage Survival Research Labs or "Way Things Go" into a less arty, more geek- and regular-jill/joe-friendly means of timewasting. Watching the robot-building and -controlling teams mixing geeks of all ages, most genders and other distinctions as their little avatars have at it in the arena below them is usually better fun than it reads. If it pops up on your PBS or other public station in the US, it's worth a look. (The host is one of RED DWARF's cast, can never remember his name.)
I never meant to imply that we ought to get rid of comics for children (what kind of a monster do you think I am?). I just want to see American comics tackle more diverse subject matter. As THE WATCHMEN and THE DARK KNIGHT RETURNS attest, supeheroes are not synonymous with children’s comics. And while Sturgeon’s Law is as applicable to comics as SF, I’m not asking for an across-the-board increase in quality. That’s obviously impossible. What I’d like to see is VARIETY. As a columnist in the Comics Journal recently opined, the industry needs MORE crap. In France and Japan, where comics are taken seriously as an art form, there are oodles of crap comics. Crap sports comics, crap SF comics, crap detective comics, crap Western comics, crap slice-of-life comics. What a wonderful and varied mound of crap it is! In America, we have only one kind of crap, the kind that comes wrapped in a cape and fights for Truth, Justice and the American Way. If 90% of everything _is_ crap, I’d at least like to have a choice of odors. It’s the sameness that’s maddening. To quote Warren Ellis, how would you feel if you walked into your local bookstore and the only thing for sale were nurse novels?
And I also read Previews and keep on the look-out for good stuff. But without the push of stores and strong sales, many quality non-superhero comics have sunk into oblivion. If the industry were otherwise geared, I don’t think this would happen as often. To return to my Fantasy Literature analogy, I’ve just jogged over to Amazon to check on the availability of Fritz Leiber’s SWORDS OF LANKHMAR, a novel that I’m sure many on this forum (and HE) have read and loved. Guess what? It’s out of print. Even the recent White Wolf edition. But guess how many editions of the HOBBIT there are?
Paul
Paul - I was never asking you to leave comics behind, on the contrary, we need every reading body we can get... What I did wonder is why the >>entire<< industry is required to "grow-up"? You rattled off a fair number of titles that appeal to more mature tastes, as well as the lovely list offered by the others in this forum. While there may not be enough "mature" titles to please you, it's not like we're in a complete vacuum. And alejandro makes an excellent point - if we abandon the juvenile titles - we lose our link to the next generation.
Understand, in any medium - any at all - the vast majority of product is going to be lowest-common-denominator stuff - easy to digest and never rocking the public's little world. That's pure economics. Every time you narrow the focus of the product, you lose audience. Fewer folk are going to be interested in your particular brand of mature. As you get sharper yet, you diminish the audience to a few diehards willing to brave independant thought. (That's why this particular web board is not the most popular site on the 'net. Mentally and emotionally, reading Ellison is like swimming a couple of laps in a shark filled pool wearing a dead-fish suit... it's gonna hurt a whole lot before you get out. Even if we disagree with him when we surface, he still made us think. And most people - by a huge margin, don't want to think - ever.)
Then we come to Sturgeon's handy axiom - 90% of EVERYTHING is crap - be content that the crap stays out of the titles you like... :)
I guess I'm luckier than most - I live in a rural part of Western New York and my local comic dealer and I are good friends - I get the new Previews, order what I want and get it. My horizons are wide and I chart my course myself - answering to none but my heart and the depth of my wallet. (Well, all right, I gotta answer to my wife, too.... But the image was cool... :) )
Finder: The Stan thing creeps me out a hair, but I start to froth at the mouth when I think of what the idiots running Marvel have single-handedly done to the comics industry. It's current state can be directly and personally laid at that company's door.... Grrr...
By bringing Star Wars into the picture, Xanadu, you have, and I don't even know if you intended to, brought to the foreground another major issue that I have with the comics industry (and the newspaper industry for that matter): the lack of comic books written especially for children. Let's be quite frank. Just as in newspapers, if the industry does not start producing books aimed at this captive audience (other than Pokemon that is) we will loose future potential readers.
The title escapes me now, but there was one book aimed at girls that was about to be published and got pulled by Image because the numbers weren't there. Well, excuse me, did the retailers and did Diamond make an effort to promote this book to its target audience? I hardly ever see a parent take his or her kids to a comic book store again. There is another irony. Didn't we all, way back when we were little ones, get introduced to the world of comics via superhero books? Yes, as we mature, as we grow, we demand better. Just as we stop reading The Hardy Boys and Madeleine L'Engle to embrace Ellison, Borges, and Louise Erdrich, so do we as comic book readers grow to embrace new and more exciting ways to tell a story in a comic book format. Let our children read Superman and Batman and then they too will demand better.
(Granted what little kid in his right mind wants to read the exploits of Superman, Batman and Spiderman when he can see them on TV or reenact their adventures in some Playstation game?)
I am with Paul: let us not only support better and more exciting and original books. Let us support those retailers who dare put them in their racks. Here in Chicago, Chicago Comics does a really neat job of stocking independent comics. I just got Eddie Campbell's "Alec: The King Canute Crowd" and Enki Bilal's "The Hunting Party". A sight to behold. Graham Crackers in downtown does a really neat job, but their inventory is not as diverse as Chicago Comics' even though they do carry most of Oni's titles.
Those are my two favorite retailers of the dozens in and around the city. And I know there are some comic book stores, like Larry Young's The Comix Experince in San Francisco, who are fighting the good fight.
Without rpeating my last post in its entirety, let me say only that I have no problem with superheroes, except that I'm getting a bit tired of them. If you like superheroes, that's great. You've many titles to choose from.
Is it egotistical to want the medium to "grow up"? In my case, I don't think so. I love comics and think they have a lot of unrealized potential. But through Diamond's distribution monopoly and most comics shops tendency to cater to male adolescents (or those mentally stuck at this stage), we're in thrall to a limited set of tastes. Yes, superhero books sell -- but what other kinds of books might also sell if most people weren't hugely embarrassed to be seen within 20 yards of a shop that features an inflatable Spiderman hanging from the ceiling? And women -- where do you think all the women readers are? Even if they could ignore the racks upon racks of scantily clad melon-breasted witch women titles and the unfriendly counter-people, what would they find to read? "Wonder Woman"?
The situation breaks my heart, is all. And we can't wait for the industry to change because by catering to the aforementioned crowd, it's become stuck in a vicious cycle: most books are superhero books, so that's what sells, but since that's what sells, most of the books are superhero books. Repeat until you have the industry today.
Leave the medium behind? Are you out of your mind? I love comics. I'll read them as long as I live, if there's good stuff to read. And, I don't know about anybody else here, but I'm going to fight tooth and nail for that good stuff. If we let the market dictate what we'll read, we'll be fucked, to put it bluntly. That's why it's important, for instance, to buy Fritz Leiber and Lord Dunsany reprints -- you've got to let the book distributors know that there are people who like fantasy books other than the "Lord of the Rings." As it is, the shelves are groaning under the weight of various reprint editions of Tolkein's "masterpiece"; and the preview for the movie version claims that Tolkein invented the genre! In the same vein, I'd rather not surrender the comics medium to the Adventures of Astro Man and Lady Bikini-Doll. That's not to say that Warren Ellis couldn't do a bang-up job with Astro Man and Bikini Doll. But sometimes I'd like to read something ELSE. Thank goodness for companies like Dark Horse which are founded on the assumption that comics can be about more than people who fly around in their underwear.
Maybe I am egotistical. And unrealistic. I'd like a world of "Hellboys" and "Luther Arkwrights" and "From Hells" and "Transmetropolitans" and "Little Nemos" and "Krazy Kats." But I guess everyone else would rather live in a world of endless rehashes and desperate attempts at originality within a creative strait-jacket.
Paul
Superheroes are not the problem.
They represent a valid metaphor to comment on our lives. Since many of the problems and temptations that have existed in the past, continue to exist now, and like will continue to exist for the forseeable future - Superhero stories will always have their place.
Most of the arguments against them seem to boil down to their "static" nature. The general rule for any writer of an ongoing title is, do whatever the heck you want to the character, but by the end of the storyline, the situation has to be fundamentally the same as when you got here. It's called continuity, and it plagues Television (which we complain about royally), Movie Franchises (which usually devolve into pathetic characatures before they slink off into whatever purgatory awaits them - 3 more Direct-To-Video "events", I'll bet. :) ).
The fact that they are an ongoing title, owned by a corporation, as opposed to a creator, is the problem. To protect their "investment", and to prevent "drifting" from the canon, they hold pretty tight reins. DC, to their credit, has opened this a bit, allowing "Elseworlds" to creep into their Batman universe, but "Elseworlds" is safely segregated, and those stories are never considered canonical. Usually, every couple of decades, the corporations require a general universal "housecleaning" crisis that alters the continuity - and allows them to streamline the overhead. Which, in turn, allows them the opportunity to tell all the same stories over again, since they never "happened" in the current continuity.
Before I drift off into the ether, one last question. Why do we feel that comic books have to grow up? Why can't we be content to let the entire industry expand - keep what they have, what makes money for them (ie:juvenile series), and let them start expanding into the "mature" market. It strikes me as somewhat egotistical to demand an industry, in its entirety, keep up with anyone's maturing tastes. As I outgrow things, I leave them behind, I don’t begrudge the producers their buck off the next generation.
(In a related comment - I suspect this is the reason for the incredible backlash against the new Star Wars film - grown up fans expected something aimed at their grown up tastes, never realizing that Star Wars was NEVER aimed at grown ups...)
While we're on the topic of comics, is anyone else chilled to the marrow in contemplation of Stan Lee's deal with DC to play with mainstay characters like Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in the recently announced JUST IMAGINE STAN LEE CREATING... series?
Alex:
Remember that time when your novel took that wrong turn? That was me, hiding in your brain, twisting it around in many a-devious ways.
I must admit that I am pretty much a latecomer to comics. And I confess that I took a really snotty attitude towards them. "Superheroes? That's kid stuff. I read REAL literature". Frankly I was acting out of sheer ignorance. I was not aware of the efforts made by Alan Moore and Frank Miller, among others, to bring the comics world kicking and screaming into adulthood. Plainly put, I pretty much shared the same contempt towards the medium as many other people still do.
But then I found out Harlan was working on Dream Corridor. I figured why not give it a try? After all, the whole notion of Harlan adapting his work to another medium, one that borrowed elements from film, painting, design and literature called my attention. (Although at that time I did not see comics in those terms. I still thought of them as a very limited and inmature narrative medium.) I did not become an overnight reader of comics but Harlan's run started to chip away at my resistance. The walls came down when I discovered Neil Gaiman's The Sandman. I found a single issue copy of that one stand alone story about the writer who exploits one of the Muses (the title does not immediately come to mind) and I was hooked. You could actually tell adult stories in a comic book form! So, I started reading everything Neil Gaiman had done until a friend turned me onto Warren Ellis' work. And slowly but surely I started discovering the work of such writers like Garth Ennis, Brian Michael Bendis and Bryan Talbot. (As you can tell, I am much more a writer-driven reader of comics than an image-driven one.)
The Batman books are the only superhero books I have read on and off, because I don't see him as a superhero. But I am also turned off by the fact that it also falls prey to the same problems that afflict most superhero books. The "No Man's Land" series is a great example of how the writers for Batman at times play it too safe. A great opportunity to change the entire Batman universe was squandered at the end. The Joker got away scott free to roam the Batman universe (I know he got a bullet in the leg, but that only guarantees his reapparance in future books). For those of you who read the book, could you imagine what would have happened if Jim Gordon actually surrendered to his most basic instincts and shot the creep dead? What would that have done to his friendship with Batman? Here is a great narrative opportunity gone to waste. A new way to reevaluate the vigilante mentality behind the titles blown to smithereens.
That is why I admire what Mark Millar is doing in The Authority. He is briging superheroics back to earth, making them more relevant to our crazy world. What would happen if Superheroes instead of fighting the same supervillains over and over fought the real villains of this earth, the corrupt politicians who made life impossible for all of us?
The problem lies, then, not with superhero comics. The problem lies in what you do with them.
(I must admit that, since I am still such a newcomer, there are still some basic texts that I have not read like Moore's "Watchmen" and Miller's "The Black Knight Returns". Soon, soon.)
Alex:
I don't think Miller is selling out -- and clearly, it's his right to work on whatever project he damn well wants to work on. And I don't have a problem with superheroes per se -- after all, I read Moore's "Top Ten." But Moore produces a lot of non-superhero work to balance this, thus encouraging diversification of the field. The problem with Miller's return to Dark Knight and Daredevil is that these books will sell like sno-cones in Hell. Made to order for the legions of fanboys who never forgave Miller for leaving DC in the first place. The DC big-wigs will clap their little hands when they see the sales, and think, what we need are more superhero titles! More Batman!
However much you enjoy Batman, you've got to admit that the character is running out of story possibilities. (Dialogue from the DC office: "Victorian Batman?" "No, already did that." "Future Batman?" "Nope." "Uh, young Batman?" "Done." "Moslem Batman?" "You're a genius!")
Superheroes are fine, as far as they go. There are simply too _many_ superhero books. I'd like to be able to walk into a comic store and see more than variations on a limited, power-fantasy theme. But if that's what sells, that's all we'll get.
Paul
PAUL:
While I share your worries about a comic field glutted with improbable biceps and breasts and plotlines thinner than the average clothes worn by the heroine decorating a limited variant nude leather edition cover, I have to confess that I do read quite a few of the spandex-laced tales of superheroes--both the straight versions like IRON MAN and HULK (Peter David, we miss you, no matter how good Paul Jenkins is) to the comical like the aforementioned Mister David's YOUNG JUSTICE, as well as those which deconstruct the superheroic ideal like Matt Wagner's MAGE, Garth Ennis' HITMAN, Warren Ellis's PLANETARY and others.
This at the same time that I read books like PREACHER, SANDMAN, KABUKI and SAM AND TWITCH--which, though not really about SUPERHEROES, are still about HEROES (or antiheroes).
Of course, I'd have to be a bustier-besotted fool not to see the merits of books like Jason Lutes' BERLIN and his JAR OF FOOLS, Brian Michael Bendis's FORTUNE AND GLORY, Ellis' TRANSMETROPOLITAN, and lots of other non-hero books.
Now. Miller? Love his work. Love SIN CITY. Loved Ronin, 300, his DAREDEVIL, and, yes, DARK KNIGHT RETURNS. Of the above, Sin City is great for "sequels", because, to paraphrase a certain tough, wooden cop, "This is the city. Basin City, Arizona (?). Millions of people call it home. Some Basinners obey the law. Some don't. That's where the stories come in." There really ARE a million stories in the naked, sexy city. On the other hand, RONIN would be diminished by any sequel. 300 would be a nonstory after the battle made possible by the holding of Thermopylae's Hot Gates. Daredevil? Well, Matt Murdock still fights the good fight against the bad, against the dark, and against his own psychoses--besides, any Miller/Sienkewicz story like the one proposed would be like "Legends of the Daredevil Universe", and therefore, like ELEKTRA LIVES AGAIN, either out-of-continuity or out-of-time. I can deal with that.
Dark Knight 2? After al, the story WAS left openended--to steal from a certain nebbish/Kryptonian almost-god, the never-ending battle DOES go on.
I have enough faith in Miller's talents to believe that these stories will be well worth my time and money.
As for: Is he selling out?
Well, why?
If you grew up on the rollicking adventures of the pulps, but have steadily gained a reputation on well-crafted crime flicks and indie movies, are you going to turn down Spielberg if he offers you the chance to hommage your forgotten youth by writing the next Indiana Jones installment?
Daredevil and Batman are two characters very close to Miller's heart--and leave us not forget that he already HAS come back to these characters--the aforementioned ELEKTRA LIVES AGAIN, the DAREDEVIL: MAN WITHOUT FEAR miniseries--as well as the screenplay it was born out of, and the page or two of Dark Knight art he recently did for Evanier and Aragones' FANBOY.
And, if these projects put a bit of long green in the man's wallet, then it's all to the good, as long as the good ideas in his mind for the characters aren't spent before the money is.
SIN CITY, though critically acclaimed and loved by many--and commercially successful, let's note--still won't buy as many donuts as another DARK KNIGHT script will.
I would be upset had Miller or Gaiman announbced that they would be taking on a project like, say, LADY TEATS: TO FREDERICK'S OF HOLLYWOOD AND BEYOND. But these are characters with a wealth of depth to be plumbed, and a wealth just as big of great stories and groundwork--much of it laid by Miller himself--behind them.
Like I said: I have faith, both in Miller's talent, and at the standards he will set for himself in returning to these old homes.
And let's remember: Before we sneer down our noses in contempt at these authors we hold so high for returning to the bright, four-color world of the Over-Man, let's remember that it's all escapism ... just like science fiction.
Hell, you could argue that any and ALL literature, no matter HOW well regarded, no matter how much it makes you think, is simple escapism at its heart.
(Whoo! Long-winded, ain't I?)
ALEJANDRO:
DAMN, man!
Are you reading my mail? Hacking my bookmarks? Watching my every move? Living inside a windowed room in my head like some avant-garde BEING ALEX JAY BERMAN movie?
How do you end up to be reading the same things I am, liking the same things I do, reading web-based columns and posting on them moments before I myself set to do that very thing?
Eerie, man.
Two corrections: Obviously, it is the Green LaNtern and the Dark Knight, not the Green Latern and the Dark Night. I apologise for the misspellings. I was a bit worked up.
Paul
Before I contribute my two cents to Paul's question, and to really get things rolling, I would like to recommend to all posters to read Warren Ellis' Come In Alone weekly column for the comicbookresources web site. Two weeks ago he published his Old Bastard's Manifesto in which he called for, literally, a revolution in comics. A very honest piece. Check it out at www.comicbookresources.com. Click on the Come in Alone link, read this week's column, then scroll down and click on the archives link. There you will find a link to the Manifesto.
Frank Miller returning to Batman (and Daredevil)? Can you imagine a more counter-productive move? Many creators give lip service to how the subject matter of comics should expand and how they can be about more than superheroes, but this kind of work isn't helping the medium branch out. No matter how good Neil Gaiman's Green Latern special is, or how great The Dark Night Returns(Again)is, we simply don't need it, and if we're smart, we don't want it and shouldn't support it. If comics are going to finally crawl out of the adolescent backwater they've been stuck in for the past 50 years, then it needs big-name creators like Miller to take the lead. To continue to bolster worn-out titles only weakens comics in the end.
Agree? Disagree?
Paul Freeman
This just in from Newsarama at anotheruniverse.com:
by Michael Doran, Newsarama
Yesterday, comics fans learned that after 14 years, Frank Miller will be making his return to the Batman mythos with an upcoming sequel to his landmark 1986 mini-series, Batman: The Dark Knight Returns. Now readers can look forward to another high-profile writer making his return, also after a 14-year absence.
According to the new issue of Comics Buyer’s Guide (#1380, April 28th), Harlan Ellison will write his first Batman story since 1986’s Detective Comics #567 - a black & white back-up story for an upcoming issue of Batman: Gotham Knights. “I’m taking Batman back to what he hasn’t been in years: a detective,” Ellison told CBG’s John Jackson Miller.
Gene (Top Ten) Ha is set to draw Funny Money, a story that finds the Caped Crusader called in by U.S. Treasury agents to investigate a counterfeiting operation. According to the article, “Correctly sensing that punches and batarangs alone aren’t going to do the job this time, Batman relies on his smarts to bring the matter to a surprising and clever conclusion.”
Ellison told CBG he enjoyed returning to work in the Batman universe, noting how closely he tried to pay attention to some of the milieu’s finer details.
“There’s a scene where Batman meets Commissioner Gordon and some treasury agents, and even though he calls Gordon by his first name through the whole story, here you must have Batman say ‘Commissioner’, because Batman isn’t sure Jim Gordon wants the feds knowing how cozy he is with a vigilante.”
According to a spokesperson for DC, the story is in the “development” stage and has not yet been placed on their schedule for publication.
BY the by, any news on when Harlan's and Peter David's Superman story is coming out?
Mmmmm . . . comics . . .
Buying comics and renting videos are where most of my income goes (groceries? Nahhhh, I can mooch off of friends for another week.), and I vehemently (VEHEMENTLY, do you hear me?) second the suggestions made so far. I would tack on a little two-part limited that Alex Ross did about three-four years ago, now, called U.S. If you can find a copy of it, snap it up; I learned more about the emotional and moral history of this country in that comic book than I did through twelve years of public school. And the artwork is incredible, as is only to be expected from Ross.
One more note for all you comic book fans out there: Are you familiar with the Comic Book Legal Defense Fund? It's an anti-censorship group that does its damndest to keep from reoccurring horrendous things like the comic decency codes that arose during the fifties. They've got a newsletter, and it don't take much to become a card-carrying member. The website is www.cbldf.org, and if you're a comics reader, you should be a member. (Totally unbiased opinion, there.)
This just in from comicbook resources.com:
Even the most loyal company man eventually starts wondering if the grass really is greener on the other side.
This weekend at Wonder Con in Oakland, Ca., that company man was artist John Romita, Jr., who, like his father, has made a career out of his work at Marvel Comics.
Romita - teased unmercifully at a panel on Friday by fellow creators for his loyalty to Marvel, which they spun in the worst possible light - announced Saturday that he will likely be working outside Marvel once his contract ends.
"Until I finish out my contract in December, I'll be doing lots of miniseries."
Among the projects will be a project with Scott Lobdell and a three part Dr. Strange miniseries written by Harlan Ellison, who hand-picked Romita for the assignment.
The miniseries was originally intended to be about the Silver Surfer, but with the recent death of Galactus, things got tweaked a bit.
"Dormammu is dying," Romita said. "If he dies, it throws the whole netherworld off, and Dr. Strange has to go inside him."
I'm in Denver for a time and I've started using MSN while I'm here. MSN uses a method similar to on I've heard about on AOL: MSN drops the connection unless you constantly use the keyboard.
Does anyone know if there is a simple fix or program that I can use to remain on-line?
Thanks in advance.
Shane
Anyone happen to remember what installment of the HORNBOOK has Harlan talking about a friend who has an irresponsible wife who racked up thousands of dollars in speeding tickets without bothering to pay them so that one day when the husband got pulled over for some minor infraction the cops threw him in the can overnight until the tickets were paid? Anyone remember what intallment this particular scenario makes its appearance?
Harlan's fourth commentary is available at GalaxyOnline, in all four download rates. A transcript is posted there as well. (No transcripts for commentaries 2 or 3 yet...)
I have to say that they've come a long way from their stumbling beginnings. Those who haven't checked it out, go, see what you've been missing. You might be pleasantly surprised.
Alejandro: thanks for the tip on Humanoids Publishing. I had been searching for a European comics publisher. I checked out their website (www.humano.com) and found a bunch of interesting comics.
Paul
Ditto on The Adventures of Luther Arkwright and its sequel Heart of Empire. Two astounding books. Heart of Empire as, without a doubt, one of lst year's top five titles.
Paul:
It is my understanding that the Metabarons is indeed a sequel to the Incal. It is being released in the United States by a division of European comic-book imprint Humanoids Publishing. In fact, there are plans to release the Incal in the next few months. It is relatively new (maybe published in France 2 to four years ago.) Humanoids is and will be relasing more English-language translations in the near future. I know they have their own web site but its url eludes me at the moment.
Comics -- one of my favorite subjects!
Alejandro -- is "Saga of the Metabarons" a continuation of "The Incal"? And how new is it?
Aside from seconding the recommendations already made -- Transmet, anything by Alan Moore, etc. -- I have a few recomendations to add, viz., Miyazaki's "Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind," Mignola's "Hellboy" (A new TPB comes out this month) and Byran Talbot's "The Adventures of Luther Arkwright." I especially recommend this last -- it's beautifully drawn and written. Imagine Howard Pyle illustrating a Michael Moorcock story.
Paul
All - Don't know if it's been mentioned or not, but for those of you looking for a reason to attend this year's Odyssey writer's workshop, the SFWA web site reports that Dan Simmons will be a special writer-in-residence for one week this summer. June 12 - July 21st, applications due by April 15th, more info at their website (http://www.sff.net/odyssey/). Slim chance there are still openings, but you never know. Would that I had six weeks to surrender to academia again...SIGH. Finder
OH!
Almost forgot!
Issue seven of Jason Lutes' (JAR OF FOOLS) excellent, excellent BERLIN came out today.
If you can get it--and the preceding six issues--do, by all means. Lutes has done an amazing job with photo reference and research by the tonnage to recreate the cauldron that was Berlin in 1929--Jews, Communists, National Socialists, and everyone just trying to get by.
Brilliant stuff.
Not that I mean to turn this into an Alex-and-Alejandro-fest, but I have to second all of your picks--especially FORTUNE AND GLORY. If you intend to work in the entertainment business, it, along with William Goldman's ADVENTURES IN THE SCREEN TRADE and some of Harlan's Hollywood essays, should be required reading.
Bendis' other work--JINX, A.K.A. GOLDFISH, TORSO, SAM AND TWITCH, and other stuff is also great. He's got an upcoming series called POWERS, about normal cops in a city that has superheroes--sort of between Moore's TOP TEN and Busiek's ASTRO CITY with HOMICIDE: LIFE ON THE STREET thrown in, and he's taking over the extra Span book--not sure if it'll remain SPAWN THE UNDEAD or if they'll launch a new one. Busy bee, is Bendis.
I've heard good things about 100 BULLETS, but just haven't gotten to into it--the preview I read was a nice diversion but just didn't capture me. The formula is interesting, but ...
I've heard some good things about Metabarons, as well, but my budget is hugely strapped as it is, so ...
Okay, Alex (or tocayo, which in Spanish means "namesake") I accept your challenge.
My comic book recommendations:
Transmetropolitan: I second your motion. But wait, there is still more: next week sees the release of Transmetropolitan: I Hate It Here, a 40-plus page collection of Spider Jerusalem's essays illustrated by the likes of Brian Wood and Lea Hernandez. Reactor magazine just went online and it features the first ever Warren Elllis online comic. Check it out at www.reactor-mag.com.
Fortune and Glory: A hilarious satire of Hollywood by Brian Michael Bendis about his experiences trying to get his Goldfish movie adaptation off the ground. Issue 3 also comes out next week.
The Authority: Now under the anarchist hands of Mark Millar and Frank Quitely, the book is beginning to really kickass. I liked what Ellis did with it, don't get me wrong. But Millar and Quitely are really giving Warren a run for his money.
100 Bullets: Film noir at its best. Well, after Miller's Sin City, that is.
The Saga of the Metabarons: Alejandro Jodorowsky, Moebius and Luis Gimenez, a fine example of science-fiction comics European style. What Star Wars should have been all about and never will be, thank God.
Anything by Alan Moore.
I know there are a couple more titles escaping me right now, but that should do it for now.
HE in Orlando- Forgot to mention that HE was glowing about King's BOOK the Green Mile, and called it one of the top ten best American novels. That as a writer who could see what King was doing and was extremely impressed.
Oops--the other reason I feel safe in recommending Eric's book is that he, too, is a newsgroup friend--although I don't know that I want to forgive him for boldly stating his age (26) on the cover bio copy ...
See this? I bare my very soul to you lovely people--my sad, voyeuristic, gotta-watch-mindless-drivel soul--and get roundly caviled at for it.
(Say--that makes you guys the"cavil-ry" ...)
(and I'm a "great worthy"? hell; I'm not even Mary Worth ...)
Alejandro--I too used to look at the Spanish soaps on Galavision and Univision--but I only had four years of Spanish, so I only caught the gist. Basically, it was an opportunity to laugh at some of the older matronas and the stack-of-IHOP-pancake makeup they'd had slathered on, and to appreciate the young ingenues.
What I wish we'd had were the Australian soaps--a young Natalie Imbruglia, for example ... mmm ...
... where was I? Oh.
I think we all need some small modicum of brainkilling entertainment, if only to recharge us for the next day's work at hand--mind, I say SMALL (and not "small minds" ...).
As for comics, yes, I read--and have--the two (the second written wholly by Cover) Daredevils that DTS references. Good reads, but as is the problem with most of the company comics Harlan has been involved with, it was his plot and maybe a few lines, then the rest was handed off to another writer. And, to be honest, the story wasn't exactly deep (and, I thought, the shark was a bit over the top--reminiscent of a Batman-Joker comic of the Sixties).
Now, as long as we're making recommendations, I have a few: Read David Mack's KABUKI; amazing graphic design work in both the black-and-white and the beautifully-painted issues is coupled with a deeply disturbing spy story coupled with the tale of the Ainu and Korean "comfort women" of WWII coupled with a deep deep deep psychological plumbing into the workings of a fractured mind coupled with a great crime story coupled with a clear-glass look at contemporary Japanese society coupled with ...
... well, there's more couplings going on than at the Playboy Mansion. And, unlike those perpetrated there in the Grotto, these are very well done indeed.
TRANSMETROPOLITAN, of course, cannot get too high a recommendation.
LIBERTY MEADOWS, both the daily strip and the collections that come out in monthly comic books. Simply sidesplittingly brilliant.
A couple books, too--I just finished Matt Ruff's SEWER, GAS & ELECTRIC and enjoyed it greatly; a better comic deconstruction of Ayn Rand simply can't be found--and can't be expected to be found in such a hilariously trippy sf novel. And Barney? Todd? He's a Philly boy, too.
If you like crime caper novels--and ones with a gonzo streak--then you can't go wrong with Fred Willard's DOWN ON PONCE. I simply can't describe the book; think of a Carl Hiassen book as written by Hunter S. Thompson with Mark Leyner and you'll have an idea.
Fred's a newsgroup friend of mine, so if you read it, tell him how you liked it and tell him he owes me a drink.
And here's my last recommendation; one for a book I've not yet read: ANONYMOUS REX by Eric Garcia. I've not yet read it for lack of funds, but will get it as soon as my refund check gets in.
It's a detective story--but unbeknownst to the world at large, the detective is a dinosaur passing for human. There has been nothing but good things said about this book (with sequels on the way), so I feel safe in recommending it unseen.
Be good, people, and read, read, read!
I was also lucky enough to attend Megacon in Orlando this past weekend. First time I meet the man, and I must say I was impressed. Everything I've heard about HE is true, atleast during his talk on Saturday. But, while getting a few books signed, I found him to be the most sincerely polite and intelligent gentleman I've ever met. Impressive. He actually told me that if he wasn't married, he'd like to take me out. Did wonders for my ego! So, if I get hit by a truck tomorrow, I can now die a happy person.
Yes, it was Danielle Steele he dated. HE also talked about the episode of PI in which he dove across the table to take out some extremely conservative female whose name I have forgotten. Apparently, you could watch the "dive" as the credits were rolling. According to HE, Susan was in the green room cheering him on!
Just wanted to tell someone who knows who the hell Ellison is what a great time I had meeting him. Thanks!
Todd: They have dubbed them into Spanish and the dubbing is pretty damned good. Granted, Portuguese and Spanish are so close that dubbing these soaps should not be that difficult. But what to me is amazing is that they have found voices that are capable to communicate that beautiful Brazilian musical lilt. (Anybody who has seen films like "Bye Bye Brazil" and "Central Station" most probably knows what I am talking about.) My wife, lingust that she is, laments that there is no dual language option. She would much rather watch it in the original portuguese. And considering the hefty-sized Brazilian populations in both New York and Miami Telemundo could have provided the service. Chances are they never thought about it and, if they did, thought the costs outweighed the market size It's taken them this long to get themselves out of the ratings quagmire that saw them reaching numbers lower than UPN while Univisión laughed all they way to the bank.
Well, Alejandro, the biggest regret of my tube-monitoring a season or so back was that I managed to miss the local plays of FOTONOVELAS, PBS's four-piece showcase of fantastic-fiction drama after the Latin American model. I have odd cable, so what Univision I see is on the broadcast translator of the NYC station here in Philly (I occasionally catch DESPIERTA AMERICA, sometimes the late news). Though between UPN's SMACKDOWN and America One's ECW Wrestling (which, as Alex knows, plays locally on WGTW ["We're Good To Watch!"] channel 48), to say nothing of the older folk on Turner stations, I just feel I can't devote enough time to the only sport where people hurt themselves so as to pretend they're hurting others. How's the dubbing from Portuguese into Spanish, or do they do dual productions more or less simultaneously?
Other than the occasional NYPD Blue episode and watching how THe X-Files is finally (I hope) dying a slow painful death, for the last three months I have done something that I swore I would never, ever do even as an entertainment critic for my newspaper: watch telenovelas. Yep, those Spanish-language soap suds where traditionally the poor "indigenous" girl married the rich white guy after suffering countless humiliations from a whote villainess for over 300 episodes. Well, Telemundo is now showing a string of Brazilian telenovelas that show how you can turn the genre upside down and deal with other subject matter. Last week, saw the final chapter of Chiquinha, a soap opera about the life of Brazilian composer Chiquinha Gonzaga, a woman who, at the end of the 19th century, married classical music to Brazil's African-derived music and helped invent the "chorro". "Laberinto", a political intrigue mini series kicked off yesterday and "Xica", a story about slavery and the inquisition in 17th century Brazil is still running strong. But my favorite so far is the Mexican soap "La vida en el espejo", produced by Televisa's and Univision's rival Television Azteca which has as its characters three upper middle class Mexican families who have to deal with a series of issues from prejudice against homosexuals to stalking and the role of the media in our society, etc. etc. Hey, maybe comics should take a cue from these soap operas and diversify.
Maggie: New glasses always give one a new outlook on life.
I haven't watched wrestling since I was five and didn't know any better. As for the boobtube: I too resisted Buffy (thinking it would be a rehash of the movie) until I actually sat down and watched an episode. Otherwise I watch the Law and Orders, That 70's Show, and surprisingly, The Others.
Why should anyone feel ashamed of a little brain candy? Heck, I watch Dawson's Creek for a nice hour of vacant teenage verbosity.
---Peter
furor scribendi
Any webderland denizens of LA: are there any potential HE appearances in the area in early May? I might be visiting then (one last homage to the family prior to relocating to Scotland).
I checked Rick's appearances page and none listed, but I know there's the occasional event that gets mentioned on the board which didn't show on there. Thanks for any help....
TV shows - watch *far* too much, like West Wing, ER, and am a sucker for quite a few science/speculative fiction shows which aren't really great watching. Been occasionally impressed with Farscape but it's up and down. Enjoy Ally McBeal for comic relief and sheer silliness (it's nice to imagine there's *someone* out there more neurotic and twisted than me).
'Fraid I don't read comics much. Barely manage to read books & magazines.
Ta - Peg
Oh, oh, oh - I'm shot through the heart Alex! Here I am, just minding my own business thinking how unworthy I am. Just thinking of all the things that I don't know that I've first heard of here (BTW - I believe it was you who turned me on to Boondocks - thanks! It's a very good!) Me with my closet taste for dreck cotton candy novels, the kind that only come in paperback and require no brain power at all. The ones where you know how they're gonna end when you pick them up. The ones that get slapped into one of those spiffy little book wrappers you can buy at the local book emporium so that no one can tell when I'm reading dreck. But now! Now I don't have to feel so bad. At least one of the great worthies has feet of clay!
Although if you also tell me you have a closet taste for the idiot springer, I'm gonna have to put you on my hit list along with all the other twits who keep watching this stuff so that it doesn't disappear from my television.
Please forgive me, I'm suffering from a surfeit of sunshine and general happiness. Love my new car, really happy with my new job, finally going to replace the glasses that I've had for 3 years and hated since I bought them. Just really, really happy. And it's daylight savings time and I discovered when I got to work this morning that I'd put on two entirely different shoes. . .
And I'm happy anyway!
ALEX: Luckily for you, my extensive library sits behind me in this 11X5 office (everything filed and shelved using the Dewey decimal system [tip 'o the hat to Parker Posey]),and I'm able to reach back and take down from the shelf (which holds Ellison's graphic efforts) a copy of "Daredevil #208, containing a story written by Harlan Ellison and Arthur Byron Cover ("The Most Dangerous Night of My Life", pencilled by David Mazzucchelli, inked by Danny Bulandi, lettered by Jo Rosen and colored by Christie Scheele (editing chores by Bob Budiansky and Jim Shooter). It's a good 'un. TODD: Glad to read that you have a sense of humor (unlike the jamooks what post on the "Ellison News" portion of this "All Thing"). And that you agree with my impeccable taste in teleplays and actors. This one, my man, is just for you. Ciao, Dorman
I'm going to say a lot here, so prepare to scroll up or just scroll on by ...
I can think of quite a few characters I'd like to see Harlan write--he's already done (and is again doing) Batman, but I think that Daredevil would perhaps be a good fit for him. While I enjoyed Kevin Smith's take and am enjoying David Mack's run, I think that the best Daredevil story I've read--save for the Frank Miller stories (All bow down ...)--was a one-issue story by Warren Ellis (#343, I believe) which really delved into the psychosis ofd the character.
Alan Moore's PROMETHEA would be a good fit for Harlan, as well--and Moore has made rumblings that he may enlist other writers for his ABC line.
Harlan could do one hell of a job on Warren Ellis' PLANETARY, excavating any part of a hidden century of heroing.
Then there are the books whose writers won't let go for ANYONE else--but I'd enjoy a HE SIN CITY yarn, or a HE look at part of Joe Straczynski's RISING STARS.
In the same way, I'd like to see Harlan take a walk through Opal City in STARMAN.
And then there are characters HE'll never get a chance to do right, like the Hulk (yes; I know about "The Hulk That Shouted Love ...") or Satana or Starfox ...
But the comic character I think best suited to Harlan's pen is himself damn near a Harlan analogue: Author/assassin Hunter Rose of Matt Wagner's GRENDEL.
Think of it: A suave, debonair, come-out-of-nowhere-to-huge-acclaim-at-a-young-age author, roundly feted as a literary genius the likes of which have rarely been seen--who, to assuage his boredom with life in general, becomes a master assassin and crimelord who kills with word and electrified sword-fork.
Yup; Harlan.
As for television shows?
Well, from moving into my apartment in August to now, I'd not had a television--and, though I missed shows like Oz, Homicide, The Sopranos, Dennis Miller Live, Daria, and reruns of Bab 5 and lots more, there really wasn't any yawning gap in my life for lack of the idiot box.
But the other day, thinking of all the news and sports I'd been missing, I broke down.
A venial sin was committed.
I bought a six-dollar antenna to hook into my computer's TV card.
And, just as I hooked the mantis-wire arrangement up, Nikki Cox came full-blown and full-breasted onto my screen.
Now, the show Unhappily Ever After won't win any major awards for incisive writing, but it IS a cute diversion--and, well, there is that lovely redhead ...
After that show was over, I switched onto PBS and my friend and I spent a half-hour, mesmerized by the screen as we watched a wholly characterless and dialogueless show called "The Way Things Go", which consisted of a camera's tracking of the movements and perambulalations of a HUGE Rube Goldbergian setup, assembled to what must have been painfully exacting specifications. It was great.
But I have a horrible confession to make.
I work nights, and thus miss most of the news and sports that had been my main regret at not seeing anyway, and therefore really haven't been making use of my television--but there has been something I HAVE been watching each week.
And it pains me.
ECW.
Extreme Championship Wrestling.
Never one much given to watching wrestling after I hit puberty (the G.L.O.W. Gorgeous Ladies of Wrestling show in the Eighties being an exception, simply BECAUSE of puberty's onset), I can't seem to help watching this over-the-top and totally nutso league.
Having a friend who appears in a local wrestling league perhaps spurs this, as I know a bit more about the workings of the "fights", but ...
It's stupid.
It's sexist.
It's violent.
But god help me, it's FUNNY.
All of the above in, as billed, the "extreme".
But nothing could more have embarrassed me when a friend came calling last week, to find me reading the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius, listening to a Gershwin symphonic CD ...
... and watching grown men--OVERgrown men--smacking each other through tables and jumping on one another from great heights, as scantily-clad women of dubious reputation and obvious plastic enhancement shouted lewd and vulgar encouragements ...
I was ashamed.
And so was my visitor, when she found that SHE couldn't wrest her eyes from the not-so-grand Guignol-ic spectacle ...
Another well written, finely acted, smart, witty show that must be added to THE LIST is, The West Wing. As for a comic book character I'd like to see HE do, howzbout Spider Jerusalem of Transmetropolitan.
Well, DTS, it's a pleasure (even after you ran that "--then I'd have to kill you" line past me, which always spoils my mood momentarily--nothing's funnier than a threat of deadly force!) to note that I agree with your ringing endorsement of ONCE AND AGAIN, the television show ABC runs on Monday nights at 10 (ET) and Lifetime, the cable channel, repeats on Friday nights at 11 pm (ET). I don't agree every episode is completely on target, but at its best it's the most adult as well as one of the most intelligent shows currently running; I initially tuned in to see Sela Ward and to see if the positive hype was justified; she's there (and unlike on SISTERS but like her turn on FRASIER has a script worthy of her) and it was. Of course, it's on against NBC's and CBS's best new drama hours, THIRD WATCH and FAMILY LAW respectively, because all three of the large commercial networks feel it would be a good idea for these good shows that haven't had a chance to build a steady audience to knock each other off the air. And don't hold your breath for many Emmys...HOMICIDE was rarely if ever nominated for best series, and need I write more? (One member of a horror mailing list expressed surprise that anyone on the list could possibly like ONCE AND AGAIN. Ed Zwick and Marshall Herskovitz, the producers/creators/sometime writers (also responsible for such lesser if at times impressive shows as MY SO-CALLED LIFE and THIRTYSOMETHING, among others), have managed to capture the conflicted feelings around "broken" families brilliantly at the show's best. Enough.
If anything, there is too much television right now that is at least good enough to encourage one to watch it. Then one has no time to read, talk, think, listen to music, play music.... Television right now is better than it has ever been before in the US, right now, with more worthwhile programming and a lower percentage of the absolutely awful than in the PLAYHOUSE 90 '50s or the Nick At Nite-excavated '70s...
THE SOPRANOS, LAW AND ORDER and its spinoff, ER, FRASIER, BUFFY, ANGEL, X-FILES (albeit decreasingly), FUTURAMA, THE SIMPSONS, KING OF THE HILL, DARIA, ANY DAY NOW, THAT '70s SHOW, NYPD BLUE, NOW AND AGAIN, THE BEAT, ONCE AND AGAIN, THIRD WATCH, FAMILY LAW, NOVA, FRONTLINE, NATURE, MYSTERY!, THE AMERICAN EXPERIENCE, the admittedly goofy EARTH: FINAL CONFLICT--I'll make an effort to see these shows in a given week, and that's way too much leaving aside anything else I might also sit through, ranging from 60 MINUTES to FREAKS AND GEEKS to POLTERGEIST: THE LEGACY to COMEDY SHOWCASE...Ellison's point in the introduction to STRANGE WINE is still valid. But you still should take a look or two at ONCE AND AGAIN.
Charlie: Before reading your post, I had been wondering why Ellison hadn't appeared on P.I. lately. But I think it's for the best. HE's politeness put him at a disadvantage among the usual gang of misinformed loud-mouths Maher recruits for the show-- reasoning with them is like trying to teach algebra to rocks.
I was glad to hear that Ellison is writing more comics. Batman wouldn't be my first choice, but it sounds as if he's put a new spin on the character by returning to an older, now mostly unused mode of Batman story.
OPEN QUESTION FOR ALL: what comic book character(s) would you like HE to write a story about?
Favorite tv shows. . . I resisted watching it at first, but "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" is funny and well-written. I wish the networks made more quality speculative fiction shows...
CHARLIE: interesting story about HE -- when I saw him speak in Chicago ('94, I believe), he sang the "Animaniacs" theme-song with another afficionado (who happened to be wearing a t-shirt with that show's logo). Ellison is _never_ boring.
ALL: I don't watch a whole lot of TV these days, but I make time out for three shows (or at least tape 'em): "The Sopranos," "The Practice" and "Once and Again." The last one comes on Monday nights, and it is by far the best of the lot. I gotta remember to write down the name of the writer (s). The characters are impeccably drawn. And it doesn't matter it's a teenager or a dying grandfather, 'cause the writers of this show hit the target dead-center everytime. They can't do any wrong. And the acting (by all involved) is pure dynamite. I think the regular season is about over, but you can always catch the reruns (or tape 'em). If this show doesn't win an Emmy (or two, or three, or four) next year, then the voters are a bunch of schmucks. Watch it. You wont be disappointed. Out here, DTS.
Also, in the signing line someone handed Harlan one of the old fan sf magazines containing a serialized story of his that had never been re-printed. Harlan read the story to everyone in line. Susan got a kick out of it and was teasing Harlan about his use of flowery language.
ALL- I saw Harlan this past Saturday in Orlando at the Megacon. He spoke for over an hour and signed books for everyone. He mentioned he just finished writing a new Batman comic where Batman hits no one and actually uses his brain to defeat the adversary. He spoke fondly of Susan, who was there selling books. He mentioned the usual round of crap writers and that he once dated Danielle Steele (if I remember correctly) and he politely stated that she writes to the best of her ability. He was extremely friendly to everyone and if anything, the audience was slighly reserved. He did mention he has a short BS threshold, as do most people.(Most attendees were comic fans, properly enough, as it was mainly a comic convention. However, I overheard two teenage males thusly in front of Susan: Cohort #1- who's this Ellison guy? Cohort #2-Oh, he's only some writer. Ughhh, lovely ignorance) He mentioned he hasn't been invited back to Polit. Incorrect since the "penis discussion" back in June or July of last year. That Maher was a strange fellow, who, apparently mentioned in a recent print interview ( I think Esquire), that he pleases himself before each show and won't allow the guests to talk during the commercial break.
BARNEY- I mentioned to Harlan you said Hi and he said he saw you about a week ago. He almost signed my copy of Sex Gang, but couldn't bring himself to do it. A friend of Harlan's was behind me in line and mentioned that Harlan rips up Doomsman,and that he saw Harlan do it. Harlan overheard him and reminded him that he bought the copy from the fan first, then ripped it.
ALL: this isn't Ellison related, except that it involves good reading. Run to your local bookseller and demand a copy of THE GATES OF THE ALAMO by Stephen Harrigan (ISBN 0-679-44717-2). It's a monster of a novel, but like CARRION COMFORT or THE WORLD ACCORDING TO GARP, or a dozen other books that come to mind, it appeals to anyone who enjoys a good read delivered in near-perfect prose style (like those forementioned books, I'm recommending, and even buying, it for friends and family). Harrigan spent eight years researching the book, and new information (such as Crockett leaving the Alamo late in the battle to get reinforcements and bring them back to the fort; or that many of the volunteers tried to escape during the last desperate minutes of the seige), along with sympathetic portrayals of the mexican protagonists, make for page-turning read. Get a copy, you wont be disappointed. Out here, DTS.
I got a good laugh today: On the episode guide page of the STARLOST website (www.snowcrest.net/fox/star.html) there's an essay from the show's story editor, Norman Klenman, who relates the "true story" of his experience working with HE on that series. Among his remarks is the utterly laughable insinuation that the STARLOST pilot script for which HE won the Writer's Guild award may, in fact, have been the draft that Klenman rewrote! (And he accuses HE of having an inflated ego!)
It's a gas. Check it out.
Hi all - First off I apologize for the non-Ellison content of this message, but I lurk here quite frequently and many of you seem pretty well-connected in the publishing world, which is what I need. I'm working with some colleagues in Kharotum on a new archaeo. project in eastern Sudan, and as part of that we're developing a training program for archaeo. and anthro. students at the University of Khartoum. I've been contacting textbook publishers to solicit donations of reference books (only one or two of each) but I feel as if my letters are being binned the minute they're opened. I think it would help immensely if I had a sympathetic contact person at some of these places - do any of you have contacts at major academic publishing houses? Again, sorry for bothering you all with this, but it's really very important - there just aren't any resources available for these students so practically everything we get will have to be donated. I can send an email outlining all the particulars to any interested parties. Cheers, Jane
And now for a pleasant surprise.... Harlan's THIRD commentary is up and available at GalaxyOnline. No transcript for number 2, but the volume on three was much higher than last installment. It's called "Bagels and Bigger Things", and it's not a rant.
(In another pleasant surprise, it's available in 28K and 56K as well the now traditional 100K and 300K feeds.)
I was going through my copy of Vic & Blood (the graphic novel adaption of Ellison's "A Boy and His Dog") and in the afterward Harlan mentions that "A Boy and His Dog" is just a part of a novel he's been working on for over twenty years and that he had it schedueled for publication in 1990. Does anyone know what the deal is on the book?
The Horror Writers Association announced the nominees for this year's Bram Stoker Awards:
in the Other Media category
•I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream (audio), Harlan Ellison
•Masters of Terror (Web site), Andy Fairclough
•Gothic Net (Web site), Seth Lindberg
•Conspiracies (audio CD of F. Paul Wilson story), WyrdSisterS ProductionS
Todd, Thanks. Didn't know the etiquette since never attended a signing before. I thought 3 would be about max.
TODD: almost left without reading your message and catching your question. While serving in the military it became habit to sign off with "out here," letting the other party know the message has definitely ended. I did so long (in Europe, during the Red Army Faction alerts, and in Arizona, during the Top Secret Phoenix project -- which I could tell you about, but then I'd have to kill you with my thumb and forefinger -- that it has become second nature. Besides, it beats those sissy-butt civilian sign offs like toodle-oo, ciao, or g'bye. Now stop askin' silly questions 'cause it gets my Gulf-War Syndrome temper flaring. Out here, DTS.
JIM: dropped by just in time. You'll note the message from Trey Barker below, who (along with Ed) has been very helpful to me whenever I've had questions about the WHC convention (and he didn't even ask what color my skin was). Trey's email was the aternate that has been listed in "Locus Magazine" since last year (you know, the one I told you about a looong time ago). In any case, no matter what you decide to do, I think you oughta send Mr. Barker an apology (I know, I know: it's presumptuous of me to say what you ought to do in this situation...then again, I _have_ been sorta "taking care" of you...so, I hereby kick you out of the nest...you are on your own...free to fly or...well, you get the idea). Out here, DTS.
I've been reading with rapt wonder some of the comments about us white sheet wearing convention organizers and I must say, I've not had such a good read in quite a while. My spring and summer, which I had been trying to fill with various activities designed to keep me off the street and out of jail, should obviously be filled with organizing conventions for the sole purpose of discrimminating against people in interracial marrages. Of course, the fact that my mother's husband is black just makes the entire affair a bit more ironic, doesn't it? Now that I've got that bit of sarcasm out of the way, let me say this: I am sorry you didn't get any messages back from Ed Bryant. I had not seen any of the traffic wherein you asked about day passes. They do indeed exist: $25 for Thursday and Sunday, $40 for Friday and Saturday. If you have any other problems, email me directly. Thanks. Trey R. Barker, TRBarker@earthlink.net
The book, btw, of course, was MIND FIELDS. The artist, also of course, Jacek Yerka. My story, somewhat puzzling as published (there's a crucial one-word typo) is "Bedtime." A shortlived MTV cartoon series came pretty damned close to plagiarizing it.
Why, exactly, D, do you always sign off with "Out here"? I must be in an irritable mood, but it does seem an ungainly tag. Just curious, despite constipated tone.
CHARLIE--How many of your books would you choose to sign with particularly good grace? Particularly when there are, say, five hundred people in line ahead and all wanting a little something, and some clearly waiting out your death to make their autographed copy that much more valuable on the market? I had about twenty or so of Ellison's books when he was signing in support of DREAM CORRIDOR in '95, but I just bought copies for myself and my aunt, a major HE freak, and asked him to sign the one for my aunt and my contributor's copy of the magazine we both had vignettes in, the April 1994 TOMORROW SPECULATIVE FICTION, edited and published by Algis Budrys (with assist from Kandis Elliot). (Ellison's was "Attack at Dawn," with the same painting used as the issue cover as was used on the book.) Seems likely he'll be willing to write a bit more in your two or three books than in your twenty. Frankly, if I saw you shove more than four items at him, and perhaps some of those for others who couldn't make it, I'd think you a bit of a jerk. But that's just me.
Hey all!
I too have had exactly the same problem with the second installment of HE on galaxyonline. Once I finally found it! Persistence and determination were not well rewarded. I had read the transcript of the first installment because I was not able to view it due to weird firewall issues at my last employer. So, viewed the first installment here without any difficulties whatsoever. However, the second installment could not be heard at any volume with any headphones, etc. As I'd no problems with the first, I can only assume that the problem with it is not on my end, but on the web site's end somewhere. Very sucky to tell you the truth. Sure hope that they get it corrected some time soon! Either that or get the transcript. Although it's way cooler to view it!
On the HE clips - I actually downloaded the 300K version last time, and *still* had the same problems folks are referencing. Tried all manner of whosiwachits on our computer (my honey is the expert, not I) to no avail. Fortunately, we have a nice set of music speakers - my man didn't want to ditch them and they were better than computer speakers - hooked up to the computer, with individual volume adjustments. I cranked up those till I could finally hear the clip. And the video was still iffy.
Peg
Peter and Alejandro: Like you, I've had problems with the audio, (as well as really cruddy video). I suspect it might have something to do with the bandwidth, since my computer is more than capable of handling the decompression. My solution was to use the "Save Link As" feature (Netscape - not sure what it's called in Explorer) to download the whole clip first, then watch it from my own hard disk. Maybe that will help. (I know it defeats the whole "Streaming Media" idea, but when you have a thin pipe, what are you gonna do?)
(Since I only have a 56K modem, I haven't wanted to spend the time to download the larger 300K clip - so I haven't seen them at their best resolution either.)
JIM: regarding Simmons' website: he said it will reappear when time permits. The webmaster was fired for putting out info, etc., before getting it approved by Simmons. In the meantime, if you go to www.erinyes.org/simmons/ you'll find a great website (approved by Simmons himself) and probably be one of the first to learn when Simmons reinstates his "personal" website. Once again. ..Out here, DTS.
Peter:
You are not the only one. Not only did I have to turn the sound WAAAAAAY up in my IMAC but I had to plug in my headphones and press them really tight to my ears to hear a word of Harlan's. And still it came muffled. The image was shit, too. I thought at first it may have to do something with the fact that I am not using one of those high speed broadband modems. One of those where your cable TV signals serves as an Internet conduit as well. Maybe not.
I'll wait for the transcript, too.
JIM: Here's part of a message I received from Trey Barker:
Second, as far as I know, it is possible to attend just the Stoker dinner. However, that is through HWA. You can email their vice president, Ed Kramer(edkramer@aol.com) or drop into their website and go that route. www.horror.org. They should be announcing prices and such in the next few days.
Out here, DTS.
Harlan was nominated for a Bram Stoker for the audio of IHNMAIMS. Also, does anyone have an answer to the number of books that could be presented to HE to sign at an autograph session. Thanks.
Has anyone besides me had a problem with the sound on HE's galaxy online commentaries? I find I have to turn the volume to maximum, only to have a loud hiss and a faint trace of Harlan's voice.
---Peter
All right. Let's hose the walls down, scatter sawdust to collect the pools of spilt blood, and get back to matters more important than my crankiness.
Well, I would like to go just to hear Simmons toast Harlan. Since Harlan 'discovered' me a couple of years back in one of his writing workshops, I wanted to say 'thanks'. At this point it doesn't look like a one-on-one will happen, so when I renewed my membership to HERC, I sent along a note. HE will get cranky at it, but I wanted to say it.
Onward. As to Simmons: I had a link on my site to his site, but I just got a note that that link doesn't go anywhere anymore. Thoughts?
Until that gets resolved I'll will be pulling the link to Simmons.
What else? Oh! Thoughts on the demise of "Star Trek: Voyager"? Word has it that another series is in the works, and since Harlan worked on the original series and since he did so well as Creative Consultant on B5, wouldn't it be great if he could be a consultant or writer for this new series, as way of coming full circle?
Nah. Ain't gonna happen, I suppose. It makes clear sense, and Paramount, of late, isn't known for logic and reason.
What else? Any word on a certain volume of the Edgeworks Series? Specifically, Volume Five: The Glass Teat and The Other Glass Teat?
What else? Found HE's spot on galaxyonline.com Not gonna try and see the video for installment two. I will just wait for the transcript, because the last time I tried to watch the first installment my computer gagged and choked on the block of data, lost its mind, and wet MY pants.
What else? Any word on Harlan turning up on "Politically Incorrect" soon?
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
JIM: You're right: we're spending way too much time on this side-bar discussion (let's just agree to disagree on that "colorful" matter). I'll let you know what I can find out regarding a one-day (Stoker Awards Banquet only) shot at attending (I'm pretty sure that's the night that Dan Simmons will make his toastmaster speech in honor of Ellison, Straub and Tem). Out here, DTS.
Jim:
Harlan's new televised column is buried deep in the Galaxy TV link (section? page? area? whatever) of the website. They have also published a transcript of Harlan's first contribution to the site. Hopefully they will do the same for the second. The volume and picture quality were really shit. Although, let me be fair, I am not using an ultra mega cool cable based connection. An old fashioned internal modem, that's what I have. I know, I know, I still am in the stone age as far as technology is concerned. Wilmaaaaaaaa!.
DTS: One more thing. Even though I am coming across as a raging S.O.B. Thank You. For the books and stuff. Really. I've enjoyed those efforts repeatedly.
Now. Resume bitch-slapping me, if you like. Or return to Harlan Ellison. I wanted to talk about his latest effort for Galaxy Online but was distracted by a) WHC2000 and b) The fact I can't find his latest effort on the galaxyonline.com site. Last time out it was front and center.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
DTS: I don't know why you are defending WHC2000. It doesn't matter to me.
The point here is, this: I patiently attempted for several months to get an answer to a very simple question: Can I get a one-day pass to WHC2000? The only reason I wanted to go was to hear Dan Simmons do his bit about Harlan Ellison, who, as I understand it, is the Guest of Honor. That's all. And all I get is static. Now if someone doesn't want me at their gig, fine. But just say so.
As to me being married: Wrong-o. The better half has her life. I have mine. With a certain regularity our lives tangle up with the other.
As to comparing me to Sharpton, hey, now. At least I have facts on which to base my remarks. Maybe WHC2000 is NOT made up of people who are easily classifed as bigots, etc. But since no one has made any effort to demonstrate any measure of consideration toward me, since no one has made any effort to address the issue at hand with a straight-forward answer, my judgement on the whole matter is that the WHC2000 is what I assert it is and just a slippery way of reliving folks of at least one hundred dollars in membership fees for not much in return.
Which makes WHC2000, in my opinion, no different than PBS. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to learn somewhere down the time road that the WHC2000 was laundering money for the DNC and the Communist Chinese.
Let me be real blunt: I don't care what the reason for not giving me a simple reply is. I don't care what is or is not. I'm not interested in WHC2000 or any other group thingie like this one anymore. This rudeness, this lack of professionalism and blatant disorganization and unwillingness has demonstrated to me that groups like WHC2000 just aren't worth a lot. Maybe I'm wrong in THIS assertion, but it'll take a hell of a lot to prove so.
You do whatever you want. You go wherever you want. Me. I'm going to read Harlan Ellison and Dan Simmons and the lot and enjoy their works. But I am not going to support half-assed efforts like the WHC2000.
Have a nice day.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
JIM: I don't know you real well, but in the past you've come across as a nice enough guy (you even sent me email in thanks for helping hook you up with a book dealer here in KC that fixed you up with some nice editions). But I gotta tell ya, this line about the folks at WHC 2000 being prejudiced and bigoted comes across as something Al Sharpton or other demagogues of his sort would stoop to. Certainly you have a legitimate gripe about the response time of folks in charge of WHC 2000 (though I don't know which flyer you got, or if it had a phone number for you to try -- mine did, and it worked -- I'm going on the assumption that you tried to contact them with whatever was provided -- I didn't have such a tough time of it, and I got my original info via "Locus" magazine -- email, etc.). And even though you've said you're not going, you should still be offered an explanation from those folks as to why you never got answers to your queries. But to allude that the folks of WHC 2000 are prejudiced and bigoted toward you because you are married to a woman whose skin is darker than the average crackers -- even though you've never met any of the WHC 2000 folks or had any direct contact with them other than email, to which they never responded -- well that's really stretching things, to put it politely. And when you play those sort of cards, you put yourself in the same boat as folks like Al Sharpton, etc. Prejudice and bigotry are (as you obviously know from personal experience) a serious issue that is a long way from being solved in our country. To sling such accusations around without more consideration cheapens the issue. Out here, DTS.
Let me make this reaaaaal simple: I have a simple question: Can I get a one-day pass to wonderland (a.k.a.) WHC2000? Six e-mails to Ed Bryant (four of which bounced back, two unanswered). Two to the e-mail address on the WHC2000 site. Bounced back.
Now. If someone somewhere does NOT want my presence at this 'con', say so. Since I can't even get a simple answer to a simple question, yes, prejudice, bigotry, discrimination. But, hey, I don't care. Given the better half is--as a former classmate once noted--a 'darkie', I'm accustomed to being given the bum's rush.
Further, since I have, literally, a ton of projects to work through, deadlines to meet, and two books to proof, not to mention the weekend the 'con' is Mom's Day, I would like a simple answer to this question. I'm not getting it. So that's that. So I would suggest to anyone who wants to lay out a buck or two on entertainment and the likes--spend elsewhere.
Oh, I could call unca Harlan and cry big tears on this, but he's busy and buried under like everyone else, so I ain't going to. And I ain't going to the con.
Period.
Have a nice weekend, folks. I'm off to teach some kids about mountain lions.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
I'm seeing HE in about a week in Orlando at the MegaCon. Query-how many books do I dare ask HE to sign when standing in line for his autograph?
JIM: one last thing. Ed Bryant wouldn't be Ed Bryant if he didn't take a long time to finish things -- emails, stories, you name it. He's good-hearted but notoriously slow (I'm still waiting for FLIRTING WITH DEATH to be finished). Another email to try is trbarker@earthlink.net Also, the website is (I think) www.whc200.org
That's all the news that fits. Out here, DTS.
JIM: WHile you're mulling over whether or not to answer my last post, just wanted to tell you that I'll be working hard the next few days on organizing the "black hole" (my daughter's nickname for my office). I'm sure I'll run across one (or both) of the flyers sent to me. I'll let you know what sort of things (writer-wise) I've been told are in the planning stages. (I'm not sure, but I think the _final_ plans haven't been mailed out because they are trying to get Ellison, Straub, Straczinski (sp?) and others involved in as many of the panels as possible (I got the impression, from my last few conversations, that Simmons _wont_ be participating in many of those (his plate is pretty full with writing projects). (By the way, when I signed up last Fall, the price was "only" $75 per person -- guess it increases as time draws nearer). Anyway, with quite a few panels in offing, the awards dinner, and a few other things, I was given to believe that WHC 2000 was offering as much (and maybe more) than the average convention (can't speak to the idea of whether the folks at the convention should be organizing an idealistic attack on world peace or breast cancer or eradicating disease...I donate to charity organizations and good causes, but still enjoy the occasional myopic wingding where writing and other creative endeavors are concerned). Out here, DTS.
JIM: you've piqued my curiosity. WHC 2000 is prejudicial and bigoted? Can you elaborate? (If this is so, I'd like to know more about it; since I don't live in Denver, maybe you've heard and seen things I don't know about). Thanks. Out here, DTS.
As far as I can tell, based on the non-answers I have, this is nothing more than an attempt to get people to shell out one hundred dollars for a membership that doesn't amount to much. If I want to spend a hundred bucks on something I want it to be put to good use. Like, oh, I don't know: Maybe making the world better somehow. If something this size, with Harlan and Dan Simmons as drawing cards, is going to be, it would be nice if it did something good: Like spot lighting solid writing talent or the likes.
As to Ed Bryant, well, I have had more success raising the dead than getting an answer by way of e-mail from him. I don't know why this is. Frankly, it doesn't matter anymore. From what I have seen and experienced, the World Horror Con is a very discriminatory, prejudicial, bigoted effort. They would have done well to stay with Adam's Mark West (or West Mark or whatever it is), worn white sheets and hoods, and sang 'Camp Town Ladies' as they burned a cross.
Besides, for less than ten dollars I can get this nifty membership to HERC. And that, I suppose, is the best I can hope for, given the who-cares-attitude so prevelant in the world today.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
JIM: Not having attended many conventions (two before this, and both times I only went to one event at each), I can't claim to be an expert. But the flyers and emails I've been getting since joining up with WHC 2000 in Denver seem to have been fairly informative. (Which reminds me: gotta send some dough for tickets to the "Harlan Ellison Retirement Luncheon"). I'm not sure how many events I'll attend while in Denver during the convention, but I'll be happy to report back as to the professionalism of the scheduled programs, etc. (By the way, didn't the flyer give you _basic_ info like rates, dates etc? I know the thing will be taking place between May 10-15th). Sorry to hear you've had a bad experience (even _before_ signing up to attend). Out here, DTS.
World Horror Con? The same weekend? So? Go to the other one. Yes, I know Harlan will be at World Horror Con, but since it seems to me to be such a poorly organized (how about: disorganized) effort, I suggest you go somewhere you can be assured of getting your money's worth. World Horror Con, by way of someone in Santa Clara, just sent me this two-sided flier about how it was moved from one hotel to another. So? I can't even find out the basic facts!
Y'know: What would be great is if someone could set up a video link and then HE could just sit in the luxury of his home and talk to folks around the globe.
Nah. That's just way too easy.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Otto,
Thank you for providing the reference. I yield the point.
Hey, as long as the protests are peaceful, I have no problem with 'em - cause the protestors are just as entitled to "free speech" as Dr. Laura.
Massive envy attack here.
Is it at all possible that Harlan may have a speaking engagement near Philadelphia in the near future?
Sadly, I've neither the money to bankroll such a venture nor the free time (of late) to do the organizing to raise said money. Perhaps that declaration indicts me as someone who doesn't care to do his own work, but there you are--and I find it hard to believe that the fourth or fifth biggest city in the nation hasn't enough goodheaded fans (or just READERS)--quite a few of which can be found on this very board to get a good sf presence going on here.
Yes, we have the Worldcon coming in August of 2001, but hell. I can recall two or three conventions of note in this city in the last decade--the ComicCon in '93 and a couple underadvertised (one of which I learned of after the fact) shows a couple years back, one guesting Chip Delaney and one (I think), Vonda McIntyre.
And, of course, all of these happened RIGHT at a time when I was so broke I was trying to use pocket lint as currency.
I swear, should I ever win the lottery or a sweepstakes, I'm going to bankroll a corporation that will host monthly Writers' Wroundtables here in town, will pay above normal speaking rates just to get a good showing, and will advertise the hell out of them.
Until then ...
And ...
AARGH!
SHIT DOUBLE SHIT TREBLE SHIT **MOUNDS** OF SHIT!!!
DragonCon is the SAME EXACT WEEKEND as the 2001 Worldcon?
PLEASE tell me that this information (filched from this very site) was entered incorrectly ...
I also attended the Ferris State speech a couple nights ago, the first time I had ever seen Harlan Ellison in person, and I have to type that he was everything I had hoped he would be. It's refreshing to hear someone fearlessly say what he thinks, and he certainly can be charming when he wants to be. He tells great, rambling stories, too. He mentioned after the lecture while signing books that this had been the best day he had had in awhile, and his good mood surely contributed to the speech going well. He also made reference to his November NJ appearance, which apparently did not go well for him, and he said he didn't know if he would "do this anymore", which I assume meant speak at colleges. Hopefully the good day he said he had in Big Rapids will convince him to continue his university appearances. Even the first question during the Q & A didn't annoy him, when he was asked when The Last Dangerous Visions was going to be published. I thought he'd get mad at that question, but he answered politely. Perhaps he's grown to expect at least one person heckling him whenever he makes a public appearance--during the book signing someone handed him a picture of himself as a boy, and while he was bragging about how cute he was some guy loudly asked "What happened?". Don't know if it was the same guy from the Q & A; Harlan ignored him. Unfortunately, I managed to annoy him when it was my turn to present my book to be signed, and it was The Book of Ellison. My mistake, as he let me know in no uncertain terms. He called that book "a bootleg" and said he wasn't paid for it. I had no idea this was the wrong book to ask him to sign, and didn't know anything about its history. But he didn't bite my head off like I thought he might, and he signed my book "this is a massive turd of a book (trust me on this one)--Harlan Ellison", which I thought was very funny. Now that I've met him, I can understand why so many people like him so much, and I can also understand why so many people don't like him. He can certainly be confrontational, which leads to the heckling he probably always has to put up with, and it's not surprising that some people can't tolerate his brutal honesty. I imagine some people would be offended by his bringing boxes of his books to sell at his speech, but he made a very effective case for this during the speech, and described an incident at a convention thirty years ago where a book seller got his signature on a book they were selling, then doubled the price on the tag right in front of him. The bottom line from Harlan's point of view was, he's the writer, so why shouldn't he be the one to make some money from his own books? While some might have been offended at this, I think it was particularly relevant in this setting. The college students attending the famous author's lecture now have a more realistic picture of what a writer has to do to make a living. Prior to the beginning of the speech, I happened to be sitting right in front of the table where the books were, and I heard Susan say "You're fired!" to Harlan when he made only a token effort to assist her with unpacking the books. I think that was my favorite part of the whole experience!
Well, Otto, had I seen your question about Kilgore Trout, I would've let you know pretty damned quick that Theodore/Kilgore Sturgeon/Trout, get it? Vonnegut is a big fan of Sturgeon, economia from KV, Isaac Asimov, Clifford Simak, Carl Sagan, Ellison, and on and on are plastered over every Sturgeon book that makes it back into print from a halfway (or more) competent publisher. And Sturgeon was making most of his daily bread from fiction in such magazines as KNIGHT just about the time Vonnegut was struggling through BREAKFAST OF CHAMPIONS, and the publishers of PLAYBOY's imitators were some of the best markets most of the sf writers could get in the early '60s (such as those published by William Hamling, the sadistic fellow who fired Ellison just before his move to LA), about the time KV was mentioning Trout (iirc) in GOD BLESS YOU, MR. ROSEWATER. Go read Sturgeon. You have your orders.
As TV GUIDE's former scheduling reporter to Northern Indiana, I sympathize with your plight in re: the utterly innocuous and dull GOD, THE DEVIL AND BOB. WNDU's programming assistants are very nice people; it may be, as one of my friends suggests, that the Notre Dame folks don't wish to draw the ire of literalist Protestants down upon them. 'Tis foolish. Have your friends in Ft. Wayne or wherever Back Home is tape it for you, but then they miss the similarly dull FAMILY GUY. They should be reading Sturgeon, too.
DR. LAURA on tube is probably going to tank as hard as RUSH LIMBAUGH on tube did; or so we can hope. She is the most remarkable proponent of self-righteous ignorance since Jenny Jones, Sally Jessy Raphael, Richard Bey, Joy Browne, Maury Povich and the rest of the interchangeable crew. I doubt she gets too far beyond her current crop of resentful dunderheads, and I hope REGIS AND WHOEVER wipes the floor with her, without really ever wanting to see that show, either. Of course, we've had Raphael inflicted upon us for a good two decades or so, but her "pity me, for my daughter hates me and I can't understand why! sniffle" act is, of course, timeless. The audience, of course, should be reading Sturgeon. Perhaps Dr. Laura will tell them that.
Mike
A comment in defense of Jim & Chris. I also thought Rud was out to cause trouble because of the tone of his message. It's short, fairly anonymous (no email either - always a bad sign), and on a subject which Ellison admirers would likely find somewhat inflammatory. It really reminds me of past posts that were pure attempts to get us to react.
Of course, he could just be inquisitive but ill-mannered.
Peg
Xanadu -- I know that the public library thing is not an "Internet rumor;" it is information I recall from a library journal page that was posted at my job in a public library. I am sure of that information, and am attempting to find the source so that I can forward the reference to you. As for the rest of your statement, my biggest problem is really that people are protesting something they have not yet seen. After all, Dr. Laura just publically apologized for any offense she may have caused the homosexual population. It is possible that she does not plan to air these views on her television show. Likely? I don't know. But she should get the chance.
Just have to say I saw HE the other night at Ferris State College. Very animated and excellent lecture. He had spent most of the day at the school + was invited to a few classes. I'd say 1/3 at the lecture were not too sure who he was but went away with a good understanding of HE + life in general as he gave a good rundown of his life + pulled few punches. Many of the anecdotes I had read but it was amazing to see the man live. HE also stuck around a LONG time chatting + signing this + that. Super cordial + UP from his talk which no doubt helped him hang in there.
I had driven some 200 miles for this-so if he is speaking ANYWHERE near you: run, drive, car pool whatever-get there. He is truly an American institution.
Otto,
Congrats on hunting that info down. All - greetings!
Otto again: You and I have aired our differences of opinion here on this board regarding Dr. Laura before. This will not be a rehash of that discussion.
First point, I could find no evidence which corroborates the assertion that Dr. Laura "got Toy 'r' Us, to withdraw funding from public libraries". Hunt down the source of that assertion before you reprint it. As painful as the idea may be, you may be spreading an internet rumor.
Two. I am not so certain that this whole "Stop Dr. Laura" thing is a problem for me. It has come down to my reading and rereading and pondering the meaning of the first amendment. Free speech is protected from abridgement by CONGRESS. It says nothing about book deals, newsletters, radio programs or television programs. Those avenues are strictly business dealings regarding the dissemination of speech, and as such are not covered by the first amendment. To suggest otherwise would imply that you or I could go to a television or radio station and demand a time slot and if they didn't give us one, we could holler about our freedom of expression being limited. Imagine forcing book publishers to print our scribblings - heck no author need ever go hungry again!
Besides, I reserve the right to be able to protest speech I don't like, even to the extreme of demanding its removal from the airwaves. (I drag out the hoary idea of a pedophile getting his own show...) In the business world, where capitalism rules, it is in the power of the boycott or threatened boycott that the consumer can make his wishes known. Those involved in the show can then decide if continuing their endeavor would significantly compromise the unstated goal in all of this, to make gobs of money for everyone involved. (For the record, despite being seriously appalled at the content of several television shows, I have never actively boycotted anything beyond not watching the show myself. But I reserve the right to do so in the future.)
I also doubt that Dr. Laura's "freedom of expression" would be seriously compromised even if she never gets her TV program. She is a successful author, she issues a monthly newsletter, and she has a nationally syndicated radio program. That would seem to me to be more than adequate means to get her message out there.
Where I do have a problem, is when the behavior of the protesters slops over into personal threats of harm. Recently, Dr. Laura canceled her annual "Birthday Party", a fundraiser for her foundation - which helps needy children, because of threats of violence against herself and more seriously, her attendees. That is where the protesters cross the line. It's one thing to protest speech, it's another altogether to threaten physical harm. (That is not a comment re: you and late columnists, I recognize your hyperbole...:) )
Just my two cents, and hey, you asked for it.
First, a little lap of victory regarding a question I asked on here a while back: Whether Theodore Sturgeon had anything to do with Kilgore Trout. I have just discovered the fact that, yes, Kurt Vonnegut based his fictional sf writer on T.S., so I'm doing my smug little "hey-I-was-right" dance. Just in case any of you were wondering about that little nugget of information. Yeah, right. I definitely need to get out of my dorm room.
Second, I'm the opinions editor for my college's newspaper, and I'm finally getting my butt in gear and writing a column (instead of just calling up random writers and threatening them with severe physical violence if THEY don't get their butts in gear and turn in a column). So I've been sitting here tackling the issue of Dr. Laura getting her own TV show and the controversy surrounding that issue. (If you're unfamiliar with this, check out www.stopdrlaura.com for highly biased but pretty well encapsulated information about what's been going on.)
See, I find the thought of this woman getting more power absolutely repugnant. I despise her, largely because of what she's done to public libraries (e.g., gotten Toys 'R Us to cancel their funding). I'd like to see her buried in a quiet corner somewhere, whether dead or otherwise. But the free speech advocate in me wants the people campaign against her show before it even airs to give it a rest. I keep thinking of the fact that, as a recipient of South Bend, Indiana's TV signals, I can't even get the innocuously stupid "God the Devil, & Bob" because of reactionaries.
So -- what are the thoughts of the smartest people I know on the web? (I hope all your egos are puffed up now.)
Hey, kids, glad to see the board up and running. Just a quick note to inform you that Unca Harlan's second commentary for Galaxy Online is up and running at www.galaxyonline.com. Go to the Galaxy TV link. The website also has a transcript of Harlan's first commentary.
Hey, kids, glad to see the board up and running. Just a quick note to inform you that Unca Harlan's second commentary for Galaxy Online is up and running at www.galaxyonline.com. The website also has a transcript of Harlan's first commentary.
oh yeah, no relation to Cordwainer
Barney, who's G.R....tsk tsk, why he's the great Bird of the Galaxy. (-:
From this week's "Science Fiction Weekly":
Rob Bowman (The X-Files feature film) is in final talks to direct Generation Ship, an SF film based on Harlan Ellison and Edward Bryant's novel Phoenix Without Ashes, according to The Hollywood Reporter. The movie is slated to go into production at the end of the year, the trade paper reported.
The film tells the story of an ark-like starship carrying the remnants of several Earth biospheres through the cosmos. The inhabitants, who have descended from the original crew over 5,000 years, are unaware they are aboard a ship until one of them discovers they are about to crash into a star.
The novel was based on Ellison's 1970s Canadian television series The Starlost. David Goyer (Blade) wrote the script for Generation Ship; he and Bowman will collaborate on a rewrite.
Isn't he Orton Reddenbocker's kusion?
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Who is Gene Rodenberry?
Yes, I did notice the misspelling. Which was one of the many reasons I suspected he was out to cause trouble.
Now. Let's get the fact: Harlan Ellison, is, for what it is worth, the latest incarnation of the Dahli Lama: The Buddha Juda.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
I did notice that he misspelled "Roddenberry", but I was too busy misspelling "ignoramus" to comment.
Hiya,
Oh, by the way, Chris, you misspelled,"ignoramus". Pretty funny.
Mike
Hi, Gang!
Jim and Chris: it seems to me that Rud did use the internet to find info on his question. He went to the Ellison website, didn't he? And he got the tip he needed, too, which is to check out Ellison's book on the subject. Straightforward question, straightforward answer. Easy. I don't see how this meant he is "out to cause trouble." What trouble? If you thought responding to him was too much trouble, you could have not responded. (He did misspell, "Roddenberry", though. Didn't you notice?
Thanks for what? This Rud is increasingly typical of the crap oozing out of the public education system in this country.
Okay. So the little kiddies don't learn nuffin' in school? So? Ever hear of this thing called THE WORLD WIDE WEB? Harlan is almost everywhere on it. So stupidity is no excuse.
It just bugs me, this. That's all. Not knowing something is one thing. Making a deliberate effort to not know something is just not acceptable.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
I was going to respond to the ignoramous, but I knew that someone would step up to the plate and say something more eloquent than my "up yours, loser"
So, thanks Jim
Rud, bud. I'm going to cut you some slack on your remarks about HE and Roddenberry, because I am guessing you are a general brain-drain case.
IF you had bothered to do something other than listen to Bill Clinton's lies, IF you had bothered to actually go to the library (that would be that large building in your community with the words 'PUBLIC LIBRARY' on it) and had bothered to look up some items on Harlan Ellison, IF you had bothered to research Harlan at all (which, obviously, you have not), you would know a few things about Harlan Ellison and Gene Roddenberry and 'Star Trek'.
Of course, being the deliberately lazy asshole you are, you didn't do any of this, no did you look for a book entitled "The City On The Edge of The Forever: The Original Teleplay That Became The Classic Star Trek Episode". In this book, Harlan painstakingly documents his problems with Gene Roddenberry.
But, of course, you won't even look that book up because it is quite apparent you are just out to cause problems.
So a thought: Bend over.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
Harlan has this big thing about Rodenberry (the guy who created Star Trek). Harlan hates Rodenberry. Why? Is Harlan jealous cause Rodenberry is a zillion times more famous that he is?
Catching the tagline
Hiya folks!
Charlie - He didn't physically rip off his face. Ewwww! His face had become a smooth blank. Remember 'Twilight Zone: The Movie', with the girl whose mouth was removed? Extend that all the way up to the forehead. A clean slate. One big cheek.
Mitch
My first Ellison was "Deathbird".
BTW, the newest AVENGERS comic, a 100-pager, reprints a story,"Five Dooms To Save Tomorrow!", which gives credit to Mr. Ellison for story/plot. It's based on an original story by Mr. Ellison.
Speaking of "All the Sounds of Fear", I'm a bit confused about the ending. I seem to get out of it that his face is torn from forehead to chin (talk about "The Method" re:pain). I'm assuming the actor personally does this? Also, there's no indication of medical attention called for him? Speaking of hearing HE in your head after listening to his tapes, I could hear HE's reflective voice during this story, especially for the last page.
First Ellison I ever read, "All the Sounds of Fear," was in an ALFRED HITCHCOCK PRESENTS: from the latter '60s...I was probably 9 or 10. The AHPs were key to my literary life. Thanks, Robert Arthur, Harold Masur, and Sir Hitch!
Otto--you may have to scour the second-hand stores or use Booksearch or some other internet tool (if you're willing), but Ritchie has published a number of books over the years, including at least one very poorly received horror novel. Good hunting. Loved the ALFRED HITCHCOCK PRESENTS: anthologies, and certainly liked the best-of the AH'S MYSTERY MAGAZINE books that were tagged ALFRED HITCHCOCK'S [bad pun, such as NOOSE REPORT], until about the time of AH's death, when the magazine collections were often titled AHP:...I guess there was no point in pretending AH was editing the other books, put together by Robert Arthur and Harold Q. Masur, any longer. These days, stories from ELLERY QUEEN MYSTERY MAGAZINE and AHMM are mixed together in books with thematic titles.
I just had a lot of luck at a library booksale, too -- got "Alone Against Tomorrow" and "Stalking the Nightmare" in hardback, as well as another Alfred Hitchcock anthology in my monstrously growing collection. (Hey, does anyone know anywhere else I could lay my hands on some Jack Ritchie stories? I'm not having much luck outside of A.H.) The best, though, was a gift from someone who'd been to the sale a little earlier than I, and managed to procure a copy of "Phoenix Without Ashes" for me, although he is a fellow rabid H.E. fan. It's good to know that there are neato people like that still here, and I think about it a lot. Especially when I consider that the most exciting thing happening on my campus this year is that they got Ollie North to come and speak next semester. If you want me then, I'll be hiding under the covers with my nose in some quiet lies . . .
Greetings
A few years back I had dinner with HE's friend and fellow
scribe Mr. Tim Powers. It was very enjoyable and soon became even more so as he related several stories envolving the "Demon" that is Ellison, you know the one I mean. The one that will no doubt, continue to live on well after his passing and serve as a constant ringing in our ears that he was once here to remind us of the great accomplishments of man as well as our tradgedies. And to the many detractors of your fire and vitality for life I say "Fuck You!"
My father went through the same by-pass proceedure and is still with us 18 years later, I truly hope that Harlan will do the same. Good luck and I will toast to your health tonight with piss and vinegar.To the "Great One" Mr. Ellison. Thank you
my comment on Harlan reading his work should have read -->
it's one thing to read Harlan's shit and hear yourself in your head. it's entirely something else to hear Harlan reading his shit and hearing HIM in your head.
i had to fix this, cause i know my first employer and old friend Arthur Clarke (yes THAT Arthur Clarke) might peek in - and i'd never hear the end of it.
s
just got the Dove AUDIO of Harlan's A VOICE FROM THE EDGE (4 cassettes) from Amazon (a nifty 20 bucks!).
It's one thing to read Harlan's shit and hear yourself in your head.
It's another thing to read Harlan's shit and hear HIM in your head!
I'm going to buy EVERYTHING he's ever put to tape, disk, edison...
who needs drugs or women when you can plug Harlan straight into your brain!?!
now i don't have to wait by the tube to hear his voice on those car commercials!
steven
"Hi webderfolks! Long time no talk. Maggie's posting for me since I seem to have access problems at the moment. Just wanted to let everyone know that my search for a new position (in my company) has finally succeeded - and better than expected. I'll be moving to Aberdeen, Scotland in a couple of months!! *yippee* So, now you will all have a reason to come visit the highlands. (Well, actually it's on the channel coast, but close enough...).
Cheers.... Peg"
Of course, DePalma wasn't the producer, but if the producer wanted DePalma to direct the film...the producer must've desired a staff capable of making a pretty but stupid film. Apparently the desire was realized.
The answer to the MISSION TO MARS reviewer's question is that Brian de Palma is an idiot. Has always been an idiot, and there's no reason to assume that he won't continue to be. Frederik Pohl, btw. Between him and Fredric Brown, speculative fiction has a lot of Fred trouble.
Let's not let one possible mistatement from a member of the ACLU tarnish what they are trying to do. The ACLU is NOT anti-religious, they are pro-civil liberties, and usually do not take sides politic-wise.
Yes, they are aiming at the proper group, but to claim that the Ten Commandments are exclusively Christian is just plain wrong. It's like the groups who have fits whenever anyone points out that Jesus was Jewish. To allow a spokesman to speak in such an uninformed manner is just plain idiotic.
---Peter
Rick, well done, well done indeed ... let me know how many emails I need to resend that you never got (jeezus, what kind of question was that??) Anyway, it's late, but here's something I tried to add a while ago (before the sabotuers struck)...
Back on 15th February, Bob Greene's column was about Thomas Jefferson Elementary School in Buffalo Grove IL. In response to the question "If you could choose something in your life, or the world, to stay exactly the way it is today, what would it be?" one student responded as follows:
"Of all the things that I want to stay the same, I would want books to. I have always loved books, and if they became some kind of computer device, I would be very disappointed...how could (an author) sign your computer? ...I have always loved the smell of old books. When you first open them, the smell makes you feel warm and cozy...a book is a box of fun."
Apparently, Harlan, there are still some children who believe in Dr. Asimov's "perfect entertainment cassette."
And I will close with the following (yessir, that was me wot left the message on your voice mail) which is taken from the Chicago Tribune. Michael Wilmington's review of "Mission to Mars":
"Why didn't (the) producer emulate Kubrick and hire a really excellent current science fiction writer - say, Robert Silverberg, Samuel Delany, Frederick Pohl, Harlan Ellison, George R.R. Martin, or Connie Willis? Why put all that scientific expertise, all those fine actors and pyrotechnics and that $80 million budget behind a script by the people who wrote "Hey Dude" and part of "Wild Wild West?"
G'night
The problem, Peter, is that it is the right-wing Christian community that is trying to push the "Ten Commandments in the Classroom" issue, so the A.C.L.U. is targeting the right group, in my opinion.
The last time I saw Harlan Ellison was at Powell's Bookstore in Portland. Does anyone know if he'll be in this area anytime soon?
In the story Grail Ellison quotes the Japanese poet Tanaka Katsumi, I thought it was so lovely and true I checked to see if any books by him were available without success, is anyone knowledgeable about were Ellison found this quotation?
first post back, and I misspell fascism...
(grumble grumble grumble)
---Peter
Actually Alex, I think I killed it. One day, I was working on my latest review for Rick (honest to betsy I was) and thought to myself, "man, I'm never going to make the date I promised Rick. If only something would distract him so I can ship this off late." Little did I know...
On an interesting note... Ralph Nader was speaking at my school today about the future of the Cal State University system. I couldn't go see him (a pox on me for actually attending classes) but I couldn't help thinking of Nicole and the rest of the webder-crowd either, especially when a friend asked me "who's Ralph Nader?"
And a little bit of stupidity for everyone... I usually get news off of AP through Yahoo. A few weeks ago I happened upon an article about hanging the ten commandments in public schools. Now, I value the separation of church and state (children shouldn't be forced to pray in school, though they shouldn't be punished for wanting to do so either), but at least the people opposing school prayer and the hanging of religious doctrine should get their facts straight. This article had a great quote from some ACLU spokesman. He said, "the ten commandments are the teachings of one religion...Christianity." Funny, I didn't know that Moses was a christian.
Oh, and since McCain has suspended his presidential bid, I'm now supporting Duke. We need compassionate facsism in America. Though I think the thing that really won me over was when he said "I think sometimes you really have to force freedom down people's throats."
---Peter (this board's been away too long. I've been without an outlet for inanity for too long.)
furor scribendi
HE's "objects of Desire in the Mirror..." appears in the Mammoth Book of Best Horror (10th Anniv.)(Ed. Steph. Jones). I believe this is the first book anthology other than the expensive Crow book or the Oct/Nov F&SF.
JIM: can't speak for the other "bluebloods," I don't recall getting an email inquiry from you. Unfortunately, my office is topsy-turvy (tax time, ya know), so I can't locate my last update pamphlet from WHC 2000. You can email Ed Bryant (EBryant330@aol.com). He lives in Denver and is helping put on the big show. (He's also listed in the flyer/promo material, so you won't be overstepping bounds). Just tell him to mail (or email) you some material on cost, etc. It doesn't take place until May, so youI've heard you'll get a neat book with lots of essays by several of the big names attending. (Meanwhile, if you're looking for convention information in the future, Locus Magazine -- online and in print -- provides plenty). As to your other whi-- er, gripe, I received a catalog from Dove Audio last month (it's under one of these piles somewhere in here), replete with ISBN numbers for audio tape releases of things like HYPERION and PRAYERS TO BROKEN STONES by some guy from Denver, and... BEYOND 2000 (the first volume). Out here, DTS.
Well, I see everything is back to, ah, normal here.
Okay. Time to piss Harlan Ellison and the lot off.
First, after months of trying to get SOMEONE, anyone, to answer my inquires over the World Horror Con 2000, which is supposed to be just minutes from my humble abode and having failed, my response at this point is: Up yours. Come on, for chrissakes. One f***ing e-mail response telling me to kiss off won't kill MY EGO and if you blue noses don't want an apparent low-life, a card-carrying member of The Great Unwashed Masses (Read: Yours Truly), at your Mother's Day weekend shin-dig, then just GD say so. It's not like discrimintation is new to me. (Remind me some time to lay the story about The Best Friend-type Person and the inference she be a 'darkie' on y'all. Gotta love these 'liberal' WASPs.) And if you really don't want moi there, hey, fine. I'd rather spend the weeking tagging bald eagles anyhoo. They may try to peck the hell outta me, but SO? Better than being called a ratcat behind my back.
Second, I contacted my local bugs at the NPR outlet about Beyond 2000, and the response was:
Huh? Who's Harlan Ellison?
--sigh--
So. Having done my part to dump in the punchbowl of knowledge from which everyone drinks, I'm off to have fun.
I'm gonna try and run down the f***ing Morons on their bible bikes.
Come to my house at seven in the a.m. and see what kinda mood I'm in for the rest of the day.
Until next time. . .
Jim Hess
So now it seems I have to add Joseph Stefano to my collection of psychic voodoo dolls, to wish bad things upon? He was pretty much already on my mental shit list solely because of his frequent dismissals of Robert Bloch re: Psycho, but now I hafta give him the full treatment, directing Scanner-thought towards him, hoping his head explodes or at least his pants fall down as he futilely tries to gain access to the Oscars by proclaiming himself "the author of Psycho!" because it seems he fucked up what would have been one cool reunion?? Ellison and Culp together again!
Damn! Does anyone know what was behind this? I never read about any bad feelings between Harlan and Stefano. Harlan? Let us know! Since I think of Harlan as the cool big brother I never had, I want to stand beside him, watch his back, stick up for him, even if just from a distance over the 'net.
All right; I confess.
I killed Cock Wyatt.
Or, rather, his website.
You see, I can hit on no other explanation but that Webderland went down due to my own hubris.
See, first, I, trying to write some columns I could sell to a local weekly newspaper, realized that I had written a great one, but had given it to Rick to use as a Rant.
So I Indian gave it back.
(and no; the editor still hasn't gotten in touch with me ... rassafrassin' makkanassin ...)
Then, I hit a huge score at the Free Library booksale, picking up lots (and I mean LOTS) of Twain, Hemingway, Faulkner, Bradbury, Bloch, and a goodly number of other books--including copies of Ellison books I'd long since given up hope of finding--FROM THE LAND OF FEAR, MEMOS FROM PURGATORY, a trade paperback of AN EDGE IN MY VOICE, both TEATs, DV and A,DV, GENTLEMAN JUNKIE, LOVE AIN'T NOTHING BUT SEX MISSPELLED, and SHATTERDAY (at a quarter apiece).
Also found a Borges, and, oh, SCADS of other stuff.
Came I here, sweaty and elated, to broadcast my find to all of you people (and, yes, I suppose to gloat a bit)--and the board went dead, just to spite me. To annoy me further, it let me write and submit my joyous report, but would not put it up; I had the fun of doing and redoing it, only to see Barney's last post mocking me. I shrugged it off, but it was just as nonfunctional the next day, the next and the next.
Here, then, I must post my apologies to Rick and all of you for offending the gods of Pride and Cyberspace thusly.
(And to Todd and the other Philadelphia-area types: Don't go to main Friends of the Library Booksale downtown if you're looking to make a huge haul at super low prices; go up here in the Northeast, to the NE Regional, the Welsh Road Branch, or, best of all, the Bushrod branch--and ask to see the books _downstairs_. Still, for selection, the big booksale downtown is the best, but it sells the books at prices slightly higher than most used bookstores.)
Wow. What excuse does Stefano have for his behavior? I'm reminded of the ads he once placed that implied or stated that he was the sole creator of Norman Bates, the Bates Motel and the rest of PSYCHO, and how Robert Bloch and his aides struck a deal wherein Stefano was forced to take a series of ads stating that Robert Bloch, the sole author of PSYCHO, congratulated Joseph Stefano, adapter of the novel to screenplay, for his part in the successful film, or words to that effect. Some egos never deflate.
Okay, we're back in BIDNESS! Post away!
So, who's going to be at Aggiecon and I-Con next month other than Paul T. Riddell and Tim Richmond and me? Gooder and gooder english...
I just looked up Harlan's Wu Tang Clan name at the "WuName" website. You put in your given name and the engine tells you or "U" your proper Wu Tang Clan name. My Wu Tang Clan name is "Asthmatic Enemy of God". Yoyoyo.
But that's not what U want to know. You want to know Harlan's?
Ultra-chronic Monstah!
Word.
Oddly enough, when I saw the classified ad in the WASHINGTON POST for an sf (they probably wrote "sci-fi") magazine editor, unemployed me dismissed it as almost certainly the work of some clowns with no hope of professionalism. Little did I realize that although not rolling in dough (and editor Scott Edelman has, as far as I know, not given up his bank loan officer position during his tenure at SCIENCE FICTION AGE), they were actually pros and veteran publishers of fairly successful Civil War magazines. Ah, well, Edelman's credits, as published fiction writer and editor of shortlived semipro magazine THE LAST WAVE outshone mine anyway. Now he's going on to SATELLITE ORBIT magazine, another magazine I didn't try hard enough to get hired by back when I lived in DC. Perhaps I should start offering to sell advance notice of things I'm considering to Scott, so he'll know what's next for him in terms of editorial chairs...
ALL: (NEWS ITEMS FOR TODAY) 1)For those still worried about Vonnegut, here's the latest as of Feb. 10: "Novelist Kurt Vonnegut, hospitalized for nine days in a New York City burn unit following a fire at his home, has been taken off a respirator and his condition has been upgraded,
a hospital spokesman said Tuesday. "He's been upgraded to stable condition," said Jonathan Weil, a spokesman for Weill Cornell Medical Center. Vonnegut was in critical but stable condition all last week. "This is the sort of good news that we've been praying for day by day," said Michael Barson, Vonnegut's publicist and an associate director of publicity at G.P. Putnam's Sons in New York. "I hope he's on the road to recovery and all of us will be able to see him soon." Vonnegut's condition was upgraded because he responded well enough to be taken off the respirator, Weil said, adding that a respirator is "standard burn procedure when you have inhalation injury." Weil described Vonnegut's injury as being "like a burn to the lung" and was unable to say when the author might be released. The 77-year-old writer, best known for his novels "Cat's Cradle" and "Slaughterhouse-Five," was hurt during a fire at his Manhattan home on January 30."
2) For those struggling writers out there interested in market news, "SF AGE," sadly, will be discontinued after the May issue. (Another one bites the dust). Sigh.
Out here, DTS.
TODD: No problem (it wasn't an "official" review anyway). I hope THE GATES OF THE ALAMO gets a big audience -- it deserves it. As for your own review, what paper or magazine do your write for? I'd like to keep an eye out for it. (and sorry to hear you got stuck with such a lemon -- since I do my gigs freelance, I can pick and choose and haven't had to write too many negative reviews and/or plow through too many barely readable tomes). Thanks. Out here, DTS.
I hope you don't mind, DTS, but I've quoted your rave review of the Harrigan on the open forum of READ THE WEST, the western fiction website. I envy you--I need to write my review of a very bad book, POE'S CHILDREN by Magistrale and Poger, and am trying not to chew through the monitor while doing so. Good idea (how the heirs of Poe have mingled the detective and horror story traditions), utterly miserable execution with enough grace notes to let us realize how well they could've done the book had they been willing to actually do some research not off the tops of their heads. Ellison is not mentioned, rabid fans--Hell, they even mention and dismiss (the films of) PSYCHO and "Rear Window" without mentioning Robert Bloch or Cornell Woolrich, almost inarguably the two most important minglers since Poe (Shirley Jackson, right up there, gets some cursory attention). But, boy, do they have empty things to say about mostly bestselling writers, except in the film section which is unrelentingly auteurist and all about how Roger Corman created those Poe films, with screenwriters such as Charles Beaumont around mostly to apply moist towels to his fevered brow, one assumes.
ALL: Okay, all you fans of great novels (you know who you are) listen up: THE GATES OF THE ALAMO by Stephen Harrigan is due out in stores around Feb 29th or sometime shortly thereafter. In my struggle to be a successful freelancer, I have nabbed several spaces at the "stables" of various newspapers...so I'm alla time readin' lotsa books, just to keep up with assignments (and make some money, too). But every few months I come across a book that is so enthralling, so well written, I have to put down the other three (or four books) I'm reading simulanteously and focus solely on the one. Friends and neighbors, THE GATES OF THE ALAMO is that book. Harrigan not only captures the wild expanse of the Texas landscape, he creates memorable fiction protagonists (Ed McGowan, Mary and Terrel Mott) upon which to hang the framework of his story and does justice to legends like Bowie, Travis and Crockett while creating the first truly sympathetic Mexican characters (in a novel about the siege of the Alamo) that I've ever come across. Starting with events in the year just before the seige, Harrigan's narrative pace keeps things moving so quickly that I (a fairly slow reader) managed to finish his 500 and more pages in less than a week. Buy this one. You wont regret (hey, would this face lie to you). Out here, DTS.
HE writes an introduction to latest Bester release, Computer Connection, that'll make you laugh and shed a tear in sadness. The intro. deserves a Nebula, if such a category existed.