To Rick and 'Our Gang'
OK, now I’m forced to atone:
Now that I’ve HAD my lithium and I’ve a few minutes more to spare I can pick up the broken furniture and glassware I tossed around the forum earlier today.
I totally agree with you, that you don’t win people over when you hit’em with insults or scorn, or EVEN physical violence, and, of course it undercuts the discussion. But I WAS just kidding around part of the time, with, perhaps, a lame mask of conceit: I kinda LIKE to make people "wince". I was at work while I got locked into the Kubrick discussion and my time was short. I was really trying to rush it. I tend to take the easiest way out when that happens. And I don’t have time to do a whole thesis. Not even now. Still, when you feel passion for someone’s work you tend to get a bit fanatical (recall how many of us here go for the jugular when someone like a teacher slights Harlan’s work).
Having said that, when I took a shot at fellow forum-goers and their capacity to handle an "esoteric" approach to narrative it doesn’t necessarily mean it’s an insult (then, again, I didn’t qualify the comment either, so it can be taken as one). It COULD be true. Maybe it’s NOT. But there ARE sharp people around who simply may not be accustomed or "wired" for a specific approach to storytelling. It took ME a couple of viewings of Solaris, before my take on the film would turn a 180 degrees; I’m still not capable of watching Bergman; I often have trouble with Robert Altman (with Quintet - though this example is not being fair to the director - the tedium nearly drove me to suicide, or worse); reading Proust didn’t work for me at the time I tried because I’m visually wired and when I read I AM used to text that moves along. This was the concept running in my head when I suggested to some of you that you might not have been "wired" to accept Kubrick’s take on story structure, particularly in the final act. This may not be the case, but maybe it IS. Doesn’t mean you guys aren’t bright; there’s undoubtedly very complex stuff you’re into that I’d have trouble adapting to. But, speaking for myself, in every case I just mentioned, I will, at some point, come back to it for another try…simply BECAUSE I know there was great value in the output of these people. How we each learned to interpret someone else’s approach to time, pace, attitude, human nature and character often depends on how we developed our own sensibilities in our earlier years. I started watching Kubrick when I was pretty young and had time without any noticeable delay to develop my "empathy"; on the other hand, I was around 20 or 21 when I first saw Bunuel, and it required me to go back and explore his vision before I’d gotten thoroughly addicted, laughing my ass off.
All of these artists had a world view that determined how they would approach storytelling. Many are given to finding new ways of conveying their ideas and vision: they take to experiment and deliberately break the rules because the conventional methods of story structure have become too antiquated and rigid and redundant. (If we’ve already seen ideas conveyed in a certain way, how will an artist be able to tell us what’s so unique about his take on things, and in this medium, if he uses the same approach?). In effect, these are people who, as artists, are finding themselves through a unique approach - their own personal language, if you will. When they do break the conventions accordingly, their audiences, at least for a while, become just as secluded. That artist becomes the infamous "acquired taste." That’s why Kubrick was often ahead of his time. For two decades he turned out work that was either banned or misunderstood. Where his film would be castigated at first, a decade later it’d receive universal praise. Time always required audiences to adjust to Kubrick’s take on things. I can tell you now, I run into more people today on the street than I can remember at any time before who love his work, sometimes with mixed feelings but with very devoted sentiments.
Now, someone here mentioned that he felt Kubrick was poor handling actors (sorry, man, I forgot who you were). I DID crank out a cursory list of the director’s films to counter that charge. Since he said Spartacus was his favorite I’m going to cite it to support my argument (but, also recall I drew reference to an emotional high point in Barry Lyndon as well). There are many beautiful and intelligent performances in Spartacus, but among the most unforgettable is the gladiator scene in the arena between Douglas and the black warrior. The look on their faces as both men waited to go out and kill each other, etches itself on your brain; you only saw hints of action going on outside, but the camera was mostly fixed on their faces. It was Woody Strode - tense, yet sedate - whose thoughts you could almost feel merging with yours: "...to kill this man whose eyes I looked into and saw a friend; do I defy and die as a human being or kill for someone’s entertainment and live on like a thing of the lower animal kingdom? Which do I really want?"
I’ve seen Spartacus a LOT. Since my very first viewing, of all the scenes in the three-hour movie, it was Woody Strode’s, in all its subtlety, that stuck with me most. You know why the acting was so powerful? It was because of Kubrick. One: he, as always, did about 75 takes - a method he used deliberately to draw real emotions from his actors - often intense ones brought on by the irritability from the repetition - and lift them above the level of a memorized script. Two: when no dialogue was needed he played music on the set while shooting, pieces carefully selected to evoke a powerful mood. It was a method used commonly in the silents. Strode was listening to a piece while doing that scene.
The emotions Kubrick sought from his actors were meticulously timed against the deliberately icy absence of expression in other portions of his movies. In Clockwork, Alex and his Droogs are detached from the pain they inflict on others, interested only in having a jolly good time with the "ultra-violence," until Alex himself falls victim to the "wheels of justice" (remember, too, that the story is being told from Alex’s point of view; we see the world through HIS eyes. This is something people didn’t understand about the movie for a long time). The range of emotions we get from Malcolm McDowell after he’s incarcerated display the range of a symphony…because Kubrick employed the methods I told you about. Other actors around key performances were deliberately muted. Timing and contrast, and very calculated allowances for improvisation from the actors he felt could handle it, were the basis of Kubrick’s technique in staging actors and bringing out the best they could give and then some. (Lolita is also another textbook of brilliant performances achieved by the same means). That is why I believe few directors could handle actors as spectacularly as he could.
Finally, to justify my riposte over the ending of 2001 (I could go into an endless exposition over the whole movie) and its cohesiveness, I’ll recap the moment after Bowman had passed through the dimensional stargate. The most difficult thing about the end is that, like the flashes of bending light in the stargate, so many ideas converge at the same time. The dominant theme threading the film is mankind leaving Earth’s cradle; this culminates in the very metaphor of the final image of the movie. Bowman, representing a species that has become like the caterpillar - still playing with its little earthbound toys - on the verge of its evolutionary ascent, lapses through time eating with the quaint mundane utensils in a picturesque setting that keep us living but are no longer enough (think about it: at the beginning we were a species fighting and killing for something simple like food; now we sit quietly without a care eating processed meals. Watch how they eat throughout the film AND at the end). Bowman then becomes what will be the butterfly, the next stage in man’s evolution and his ascent to the stars: the human race, along, perhaps with its barbarism, is about to leave Earth’s cradle. That is the metaphor of the Star Child. And it closes the thematic loop perfectly, which began at the opening of the movie in The Dawn of Man. This was the metaphysical gloss Kubrick brought to his material. And this is why I say the ending is perfect in that every image is a logical, metaphoric extension of the entire preceding text. It is, in fact, a tightly woven meditation, or a poem, as the late Gene Siskel would call it.
The whole film, in all its layers to examine, is a stunning work and no other director in the world could pull it off. It is the ONLY film that really looks at the two forks in the road that await us as a species: ascent to the stars and continuing our evolution or complete annihilation, either at our own hands or by natural catastrophe (remember, if we were dumb enough to stay on this planet for another 5 million years or so the sun would nova and swallow us whole anyway; and that’s leaving out the glacial periods or greenhouse effects that would await us).
But, like killing (one of the things we still share with the lower orders), our tendency to explore and to discover and to tear from the old is innate in our species. This is what 2001 is about.
A director like Kubrick gives great density to his movies. It can be too easy to overlook their breadth. Kubrick was looking for new narrative techniques: "we haven’t even scratched the surface," is what he said with regard to the possibilities. So, I say, without any conceit, you may not be wired for his particular approach, just as I’m not for some things, and, therefore, may not be experiencing the great wealth of ideas and emotions his work has to offer. How you feel about a movie right now may not be the same as after a few subsequent viewings. It’s happened to me a number of times.
[Insert anguished cry]
Wish I could be there with everyone at Pinks. Hope you all have a great time.
Kerry - from the cold desert of arid Australia.
Harlan to Y'all, but Specially to Scot in Alabamy:
Yeah, I'm exhaustedly back from Oregon, Susan had a swelltacular birthday with me and Joe Straczynski and Kathryn Drennan, and now I'm running all over the house cleaning up mail and work, AND completing the last two pages of a brand-new story I'll be premiering at the Pink's Hot Dog Stand signing for THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON tomorrow night. Title: "Goodbye to All That"--written around the Kent Bash painting I conceived and had painted for the long-overdue HARLAN ELLISON'S DREAM CORRIDOR issue that I worked on with my editor Diana Schutz, and my Dark Horse Comics publisher, Mike Richardson, last weekend. Don't know fer shur, folks, because this one is even wonkier than my usual...but I have a wry and sneakful suspicion you may get off on this little ellisonion offering.
I'll read it for the first time in public, along with "Prince Myshkin, and Hold the Relish" tomorrow night.
Scot (at last, pantpantpant): not only do I not HAVE a copy of my late and sorely-missed pal Bill Rotsler's soft-core erotica, THE GODSON, but I've never even SEEN it. I would dearly love to have the copy you're offering. Let me know what I owe you, and I'll remit. What an unexpected bit of pop antiquity to crop up, when I'd foregone all hope I'd ever see the thing.
For those of you who scratch your heads that I would be in a film like that, well, folks, I loved Bill with all my heart, he was one of my dearest chums, and I let him use the house while I was working at 20th Century-Fox on VALLEY OF THE DOLLS. (I was the first writer on the project, though subsequent scenarists got the screen credit--which relieved me enormously.) And one day, when I came shambling through my own front door after an exhausting stint at 20th, I found the house filled with nekkid and semi-nekkid men&women. And Bill, my pal ole chum buddy, comes rushing up to me and grabs my attache case out of my hand, and thrust me down onto a big steamer trunk I used to have in the front hall, and he says something like, "I'm in a terrible bind; we've shot all the preceding scenes with the characters who get killed, and we need someone who hasn't been seen in the film just to sit and be a piece of furniture, wouldja please...?
So, wiped out and tired, I plop onto the steamer trunk...
And Bill deposits a pair of UTTERLY NAKED, very pretty women on me, one on each knee. And then he starts "directing" me to grab such&such a protruberance here, and such'n'such an appendage there, and the camera is rolling, and I suppose (because I've never seen a frame of the film and have no idea) I sat there fondling and mouthing inanities, looking the fool.
Subsequently, I had a brief liaison with one of the ladies, who was not (imagine my surprise) a rocket scientist (nor even a paleontologist for that matter), though the other woman, a very attractive blonde lady, became a friend. She was, in fact, pregnant during that scene, and told me about her other child, and her husband, all during the shooting, and I found myself more than a trifle awkwarded-out to be pawing a pregnant married person so sweet and pleasant. Bill, got done with the scene, said he needed me no more, and I went into the rear wing of the house, got undressed, and crawled into bed, and went straight to sleep at about six o'clock.
I was awakened, however, at about eight-thirty, when the OTHER lady, from the OTHER knee on which I'd dandled the duo, crawled into bed beside me. This was, of course, at least 15 years or more before I had even met Susan. But she's seen photos of the shoot, and knows-all of my sluttish past.
Further, deponent sayeth not.
Yes, by all means, send me the film, Scot. And thank you.
See some of y'all tomorrow night at Pink's. "Goodbye to All That" debuts. The 50th Anniversary Retrospective debuts. O frabjous day, calloo callay!
Yr. pal, Harlan
I couldn't agree with you more, Alex. But I'd like to think that both are linked in that they are legal victories for the creative community. And for that alone, I am so happy. Methinks this bodes well for Harlan.
The Napster decision was just upheld by the Federal Appeals court that rendered the decision. That leaves only one more venue for Napster to try--the U.S. Supreme Court. While today's SC decision on online copyrights was good news for all of us writers, the Napster decision is the really important one for Harlan's case.
Well, this is usually the point in a debate at which the logical recourse is a physical assault. So for all your boorish, myopic, blasphemous comments I'm comin' after all of ya. Thus, I win the argument, case closed. (Now I know why I won so many debate classes: everyone wound up in an emergency room).
Where the hell is my lithium when I need it?
Just as an aside, Rob - while I for the most part agree with your assessment of Kubrick in general and 2001 in specific, I'm going to have to back up Joseph that you're being a tich patronizing.
Whether or not you intended it, some of your comments about others being bound to certain structures or lacking perspective made me wince. And I wasn't even the one addressed.
If you want to convince others that your informed opinion is the correct one, do so with reasoning, fact, and example. It's not necessary to hazard any guesses or make any asumptions as to the intelligence, perspicacity, and/or experience of others; and in fact doing so will usually undercut the mutual respect which is vital to reaching them.
Additionally, if you're going to take the position that the end of 2001 holds together, it's better to do so with example rather than simply stating that that's the way it is and many others think so too. If I tried I could easily find fifty people who would agree that the earth is less than ten thousand years old. Rather than hearing who agrees with you I'd love to hear your thoughts on those closing scenes - especially the ending "Starchild" shot - and why you think they adequately (and hopefully even poetically) convey that Bowman has become cosmically aware and "unstuck in time".
First a note to those who might have a Gaiman tour visitation in their cities: don't miss Neil's reading. I saw him yesterday, and he's a delight. The chapter he read sounded very different from how I'd "heard" it in my head when he read it aloud. Besides, he's got great answers for the audience questions.
Now then, I can't resist wading into the Kubrick discussion. I admire Kubrick greatly, but I've got to join with those who find some large flaws in his movies. "2001, A Space Odyssey" was terrific, yes--but that light-show ending was too long by half even for the sixties. The symbolic evolution of Dave didn't worry me a bit. But the trip through the star-gate was bloody endless. I believe that it begins as an exiliarating trip, but ends as enough of an irritant to set the audience against that final display of evolution / aging in the finale. It's an example of special effects that draw too much attention to themselves, rather than to what they're trying to convey.
I always went to Kubrick films with a certain trepedation. What worked in one utterly failed in others. I thought the voice-over narration in "Clockwork Orange" was inspired, perfectly complementing the visual storytelling. The same technique in "Barry Lyndon" failed to convey the unreliable-narrator sense of the novel, and rendered it a boring story. How does the same filmmaker achieve so much with this technique in one film and flub it in the other?
David and Joseph respectively:
I feel like one of those samurai warriors in anime defending Kubrick to the end. I usually find a group anywhere who sides with me on this subject, so this is a "truly unique" experience.
Kubrick was brilliant with actors! (We'll pretend I just threw a lot of ad hominum insults at you at this juncture for that boorish comment you made). In fact, there aren't many directors as good as he was. You're just not "getting it": while theme WAS the dominant "character" in his films, he manipulated emotions or suppressed them, depending on what part of the film we're talking about and which characters. But in EVERY film of his, reactions, non-reactions and expressions are planned or "grilled" out of the actors with careful deliberation in conjunction with Kubrick's famous cold stoic narrative adagios, and the resulting performances are absolutely stunning. It happened in Spartacus, it happened in Paths of Glory (brilliantly), it even happenen in the Killing, it happened in Lolita, it happened in the comic timing in Strangelove, it happened in Clockwork, it happened in Barry Lyndon (particularly when the child is killed). Because he contrasts powerful emotions against cold, provocative "stasis" at very calculated dramatic points the impact is amplified. In the examples I just listed, you'll never convince me otherwise: the actors were incredible, and it was because of Kubrick's method. Few directors, and certainly not Spielberg, could do what was accomplished in those particular movies.
Incidentally, I suggest you listen to Martin Scorcese's comments and insights on Kubrick: he is more perspicacious and on the mark than either of you guys OR me; if you listen to what he says it may give you some perspective that you lacked before, which might make you see Kubrick's movies a little differently in repeated viewings. That happens sometimes. In the past, Harlan Ellison has also given us excellent insights on the subject (read his comments on Paths of Glory sometime).
And in 2001, NOTHING falls apart at ALL, much less the ending which has ALWAYS fascinated me. And, as I've stressed, I know people who disagree with your statement as much as I do.
Well, Harlan had another exciting day at the comics exhibition Saturday. (I can't speak about Sunday; I had to be somewhere else.) He was working on a story for Dark Horse based on a painting whose idea he had given the artist -- about the Ronald Colman character in "Lost Horizon" climbing the blizzardy Himalayas in an attempt to return to Shangri-La and seeing, in the distance, a pair of Golden Arches.
I remember him once kvetching about people not understanding his references to one of his favorite movies -- I think it was in the intro to _Slippage_. Sure enough, some stone-faced fellow in at least his late 30s, possibly even late 40s, stared at the painting, listened to Harlan's laborious explanation, and never even cracked a smile at the joke. When Harlan said, "Ah, I guess you're just too young to get this," the guy growled, "Maybe you're too old."
Later, a woman blew up at him in outrage and had to be escorted out by sheriff's deputies because she had been lurking behind him unbeknownst to him, and heard something that offended her, which she proceeded to express loudly throughout the room.
Just another day in the life of a gadfly. It's fascinating to see rubes bounce off the man and try to imagine the picture they'll always have of him henceforth, how they'll describe him to anyone else whenever his name comes up.
Mr. Ellison also apologized to me for lying the preceding Thursday. He had made up a colorful story to explain how he got his hands on official Donnie Osmond stationery, just to shock the bourgeois listeners around us, and it was a lovely, colorful fib. So I don't know how he came into possession of Donnie Osmond stationery after all. Not even he does. (But now we know how SOME of those crazy stories about him get started!)
As for Kubrick and Spielberg ... well, I've been deeply moved by the work of both of them, but I sometimes wonder whether either of them can direct actors, much. Kubrick seemed terrific at conveying big themes, ideas, at putting together stunning visual and aural mosaics; and Spielberg seems like a pretty cool if not terribly deep storyteller ... but I get the impression they kind of leave the actors to fend for themselves. If they get great, smart, inventive actors, they get good performances, but if they don't (consider "Barry Lyndon" and "Full Metal Jacket" in SK's case), then all the technical genius seems a bit wasted.
Soderbergh, now. Whew! I'll go see anything of his. "sex, lies & videotape" remains one of my personal faves, and "The Limey" was excellent. "Traffic" is not perfect, by any means; the writing is not anywhere near as good as the acting, or the direction which is even better, but it's certainly worth seeing.
Rob,
No, my being "used to convential structure" is not my problem with "2001." Believe me, I have no problem understanding experimental plot structures, chronological doohickeys, etc. I just feel the ending of "2001" meanders unconvincingly.
By the way, I know you probably didn't mean your post to sound that way, but it does seem a little patronizing. Don't patronize my opinions.
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. Happy belated birthday, Susan!
I think this could have some bearing on Harlan's lawsuit. Rick, could you pass a copy of the story to Harlan?
"Ruling against big media companies in an information age dispute Monday, the Supreme Court said free-lance writers may control whether articles they sold for print in a regular newspaper or magazine may be reproduced in electronic form".
Read all about it at:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010625/pl/scotus_free_lance_3.html
Susan,
May you have a great birthday!
Best Wishes,
Shane
Joseph
Obviously, the only line in your last post I agree with is, "what do I know?"
The end doesn't break down at ALL: it's a magnificent meditative journey. You're too used to conventional structure but the more you look at that film the more you see in it, believe me.
Rob,
My personal feeling about 2001? It's a great movie that just...breaks down at the end. After so much wonderfully painstaking dialogue and cinematography, we get scenes that somehow just don't work. I don't know if that was the point - if what is happening is something we can't comprehend, being only Homo Sapiens, but it leaves with a horrible disconnectedness that is less than satisfying.
Of course, what do I know? My personal favorite Kubrick is "Spartacus."
Jes,
I will read Kestrel and the Knave! I just got American Gods, so that is the top of my list, but Kestral is right after that.
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
OK, to everyone who gets me razzled re: 2001.
Turning to drugs and booze to "cope" with the viewing of 2001 is a qaint idea. No one I know ever did it that way. AND I happen like commercial and artistic elements combined. I just don't like sacchrine mixed into it.
I first saw 2001 in 1978. A lot of people I know now saw it for the first time within the last 15 years (two of these guys are 21) and they share my sentiments. So, you can't really blame the period or generation anyone is from to judge how they'll respond to it. AND there have ALWAYS been people who had your reaction to the movie as well. Like I said it just depends on how you're wired. If you need movies with a break-neck pace or "a lot of heart" then a movie like 2001 or Solaris isn't going to work for you. I go for a pretty broad range myself, but I do like cerebral stuff often.
Well, I ain't from Alabama, so Full Metal Jacket was a terrific film as far as I'm concerned.
Howdy, all. (Sorry about the cornpone colloquialism - my inner hick was in need of release. But no more.) I'm a longtime reader, infrequent poster with a brief announcement, offer, etc. I'm preparing to move out of state soon, and I'm in the process of liquidating my video collection (everything must go!!). One of the videos is WILLIAM ROTSLER's 1971 "The Godson" (please, not to be confused with Jean-Pierre Melville's classic "Le Samourai," released in the States as, you guessed it, "The Godson" - go figger, but I blame Coppola). Rotsler's movie, though, was shot in Mr. Ellison's house, and if bad vision and the IMDB are to be believed, featured Mr. Ellison in a small role. I've seen the damned thing and don't know what to think. Uschi Digart's prtty great, though. Other than that, all I know is I have to slice my collection in half. So, the offer is: Anyone who wants the movie, can have it. I'll ship it out to you, and you can send me the postage back when you receive the movie. (No scam here.) Just email me if you want the movie. This is a first-come, first-serve deal, with one exception: If, for some reason, Mr. Ellison doesn't have a copy of the movie (doubtful), then he gets it, automatically. Just let me know folks, and I'll announce the lucky winner, let's say Wednesday.
P.S. I hope this doesn't sound like a creepy offer. It's just my way of paying someone, anyone back for all of the thought-provoking stuff I've read on this board.
P.P.S. Re: Kubrick. As a Alabama-type person, I hold a small grudge against the fellow for mostly ruining Gus Hasford's "The Short-Timers." I'm a petty, petty person. OK.
Lynn - I agree, "mainstream" and "popular" are quite undeservedly considered dirty words, but maybe that's only because they're associated with pop music so sugary it's liable to cause cavities and irritating sitcoms starring has-been stand-up comics? This is probably why many--myself included--reflexively shy away from movies or music or what-have-you that appeal to the masses; it's a gargantuan fallacy of an instinct, but an instinct nonetheless.
As for 2001 . . . My aunt tells me folks were doing some interesting drugs at the time it was made, so I wonder if an analysis that "gets" what Kubrick was trying to do at the end must be conducted while in a similar frame of mind, so to say? (Yes, I read that someone watched it drunk to see if it made a differece, but I don't think booze going to cut it.)
Also, because I was away for a while and missed Harlan's birthday, I'm going to wish Susan the very best of birthdays twice and ask her to please give one to Harlan. Tell him to think of it as the card that got lost in the mail and showed up a month late in one of those sealed bags with the Official USPS Apology Note printed on the side: even though the envelope is hanging together only by a few shreds of paper and there's no trace of whatever birthday money was once in it, the love is still intact.
~Jeff
And on another tangent, what did you comic book folks think of "Unbreakable"?
L.
re: Kubrick/Spielberg
Two comments come out of Ebert's article that caught my eye.
"But every artist must work in his medium, and the medium of film does not exist unless there is an audience between the projector and the screen." "Spielberg's unique ability in his serious films has been to join artistry with popularity--to say what he wants to say in a way that millions of people want to hear."
Since my college days when I was constantly getting into arguments with professors over the 'lack of art in popular culture & music', I have struggled with this hypocritical viewpoint that if something is popular, it can't be artistic. It's as if someone can't create something that has lasting impact on human culture if the populace itself actually enjoys it! The moment an 'artist' becomes popular, suddenly his stuff isn't as cutting edge as it used to be. No matter how much I think we have evolved, every time I see 'wet monkey' syndrome, it amazes me.
This discussion made me pop over to www.imdb.com and look up both Spielberg and Kubrick. The body of work alone, when viewed on a single page, states that these two men are in vastly different realms of film-making. Wouldn't the world be a much more interesting place if Kubrick had stooped to writing episodes of Animaniacs?
Rob, I think perhaps the era in which you and I saw 2001 may have a lot to do with what I may or may not have taken away from the film. I was raised on a steady diet of sci-fi heavily influence by the very rudimentary elements of the film you mentioned. I am not as 'utterly confused' by his films as you seem to think. Maybe the problem is that I view/read things of this ground-breaking nature out of context. I look at the images of space and man in relation to space, and say to myself, 'Yeah, yeah, but where's the good stuff?' Now that I think about it, 1968 was a year before I was born. A year before we walked in space. Add to that the fact that I grew up in a household where space technology was no big deal. My father was with NASA from the Mercury program through Apollo 13 on up to Challenger, and when they needed someone to help fit David's (the boy in the bubble) environmental suit, I was the little kid they stuffed into the test model. Perhaps that can help you begin to see where I'm coming from.
L.
PS. In proofing before posting, perhaps I should also explain 'wet monkey syndrome'. Researchers did a study regarding learned behavior using macaques or rhesus monkeys, I'm not sure which. They put 25 animals in a dual level cage and fed them normal monkey chow down below. Treats of fruit were offered to monkeys on the upper level, forcing them to climb to get them. After the monkeys learned they could climb up to get the good stuff, whenever one started to climb, the researchers hosed the monkeys left down below with ice cold water. Pretty soon, anybody started to climb up, they got dragged back down and beat upon by the rest of the tribe. One by one, the animals were replaced with monkeys that had never been hosed. Sure enough, when the entire population had been replaced, any animal trying to climb up and get the fruit was summarily dragged back down and thumped. Hence a social phenomenon I call 'Wet monkey syndrome'.
Oh, I know all of Ebert's comments about Spielberg. I felt Schindler's List was pulling punches too much in presenting to us the horrendous, disgusting things the Nazis were doing to those people - if it hadn't Spielberg might've saved himself the work of having to take black getto kids through a museum to make them understand what the Germans had been doing to the Jews and they wouldn't have mocked the film as they did at first - and the ending for me, as I've stressed, was too "literalized", everyone weeping and hugging to remind of the deep sorrows in case all the preceding text hadn't done the job. I do NOT dislike the film; I just have some mixed feelings. I'll also add that I'm probably even harder on Spielberg BECAUSE I'd grown up a fan - I recognized things in his early work that vanished later or got dissipated - and between pushing too much candy-coated sentiment, gummi-bears and a rather rigid upper-middle income world view (reflected in his upbringing) I finally became a bit nauseated. I'm not with Ebert on this one. And remember, he also likes many of Schwartzenegger's movies; that doesn't make me like Arnold any better. And he praises things like the Star Trek movies to high hell, including the first one. And I don't align with him on Spielberg either. But...each to his own, man.
These days there's ANOTHER Steven I have my eye on more:
Steven Soderbergh. I saw The Limey recently - which I'd barely even known about before - and got totally fixated by it (Terence Stamp is a great actor). When I was a film student I walked around with my own visual theories about how I would shoot, structure and edit a film. The Limey comes amazingly close to many of the concepts I had in mind: intercutting subjective viewpoints showing what a character is thinking then doing another take of the image he's looking at as it really is, and shifting back and forth in time. Tarantino used time-shifting narrative in Pulp Fiction, the technique first used by Kubrick in The Killing; Soderbergh, I believe, has John Schlesinger to thank for the subjective shift technique used in Midnight Cowboy. But I would use the method - strategically - on a regular basis in all my films, if I were a filmmaker.
Happy Birthday Susan! Hope you're having a great time at Pink's.
Cheers....
You know, I was going to post a defense of Spielberg, but Roger Ebert has today managed to write a defense much better than I do. This week's Great Movie column (where he revisits classic films) is "Schindler's List." Take a look at:
http://www.suntimes.com/ebert/greatmovies/sho-sunday-ebert24.html
Locus magazine has just put up some excerpts from July's interview with Harlan Ellison. Elsewhere on the site Locus says new subscribers can get Ellison for free (sounds rather 13th century to me).
http://www.locusmag.com/2001/Issue07/Ellison.html
Last issues Locus (the one with cuddly Tom Disch on the cover) says "Troublemakers" is due out from Pocket/iBooks in November
I stopped counting the number of times I saw 2001 after my 20th viewing. The first time I viewed it I was around 12 and I saw what I WANTED to see. I was mesmerized and thinking about a LOT of metaphysical things as my mother drove us home. In every subsequent viewing since I've discovered more or something different in the movie. That's the remarkable thing about it. And I would add, I have a number of friends who resonate the same sentiments, passion and "grasp" as I do. If you haven't absorbed ANYTHING from it by now (even rudimentary elements: the human species spawned by an alien race; space as a cold, isolating desert; HAL as, ironically, the only "human" character in the movie. Those are places to start. But the angle is to "feel" your way through the film; explore it on that level and you may discover as much as Dave Bowman did) then that's just the way you're wired. However, even if I stood as you do on any of his films - utterly confused by the ambiguities - I would rather sit scratching my head for a while than have my intelligence insulted by condescending stuff. And on the issue of making money, Kubrick never had to kiss anyone's butt to make the movies the way he wanted to make them - ONLY Clint Eastwood commanded the carte blanche from Warners Kubrick always had - and his films in the long run have been MASSIVELY profitable because half of them became classics and because a number of them have a devoted following. The supposedly esoteric stuff was very successful for him. Kubrick was a great international success so your argument on that point doesn't hold.
Re: Sixth Sense. On the whole I like the film a lot.
RE: Kubrick/Spielberg
Admittedly, there are times when I don't need things 'explained' to me on film. Times when I'd rather be left wondering. (The end of The Sixth Sense could have worked just as well with his breath fogging and the wedding ring rolling across the floor. Maybe a wide shot to show the blood under his sweater, but the rest was ham-fisted, I felt.)
But I have seen 2001 several times (both sober and drunk) and I still walk away from that film wondering just what the hell that man was trying to convey.
There are times when one can be *too* esoteric. And if your box-office returns don't come in, you don't get to make the big budget films like Schindler's List or Saving Private Ryan.
Me, when I want to be left wondering, I'll just wander over to Maximum Exposure and serve me up a bowlful of "What the ...?" But I confess to being skeptical as to the 'wondrous nature' of this 'gentle minded' picture.
L.
PS. Happy Birthday Susan! June is a wonderful time of the year to celebrate one's natal day. Hope it treats you kindly.
Frank, Why do you cringe because Kevin Smith is directing a Prince documentary? No matter what you think of his image, the singer has taken on the recording industry and won. In this era of prefabricated pop, I have to give him credit for that. He's one of the few true mavericks in music and I'm sure Kevin Smith will craft something intriguing out of this.
This one's to Susan, a day early, because I'm not certain I'll be online tomorrow:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!
Hope Harlan appreciates you as much as you deserve.
Best,
Alex
I think Duel was great. It is exemplary of what I meant about "early" Spielberg, but it kind of digresses from what I was talking about. One, Duel was a TV movie (released theatrically overseas with extra footage) and I'm talking about his theatrical work. Two, I was thinking about his ability to handle straight drama (fantasy/adventure hasn't been a problem, although I thought the two Jurassic Park flicks sucked), hence, my emphasis on Sugerland Express. AI is a new situation just by virtue of being a Kubrick movie: higher dramatic standards are expected, ones I wouldn't entrust with Spielberg (and I was trying to say there was a time long ago when I would have).
Kevin Smith is doing a Prince documentary (cringes).
About Spielberg: Actually "Duel" is a very effective little bit of horror. That black truck is the best monster in movie history. Technology is the real evil, not things that go bump in the box office.
Yes, I've known about the involvement of Kubrick's wife and Jan Harlan with AI for a long time. I believe what was kept intact was all of Kubrick's visual concepts (it looks like it from what I've seen). All the storyboards were finished. Kubrick himself had written nearly 500 pages of outline. But I think the cold cynicism and dark humor will be replaced with Spielbergian heart-tugging and "literalizing" of the emotional cues, explaining to us how we're supposed to feel. On many levels the two directors are too divergent - one willing to compromise and pander to those in the audience without the smarts to "get it" and one who never would. It's an artist handing his vision (posthumously) to a craftsman (to borrow a splice from a famous Harlan Ellison argument): it's like Picasso commissioning the Brothers Hildebrandt to do 'Guernica'. But, admittedly, as I 'fessed up in an earlier post, these are the rantings of a purist. Plus I'm bitter about losing Kubrick - I can't tell you how much I was looking forward to his introspective return to science fiction.
For the record, in his early days I would've trusted Spielberg with almost anything. In my opinion, his best, least compromising drama is his first: The Sugerland Express. Its ending doesn't compromise anything and is almost completely without dialogue; it didn't "explain" anything, it left you to think about what you saw. But the film failed in the box office and it's my theory that the director hasn't trusted audiences (or himself) with serious drama since.
A bit of light reading for any John Irving fans out there: (www.bookmagazine.com/issue17/irving.shtml)
re: Kubrick's last project.
Been reading the trade rags, kinda following the game with half an ear. From what I've seen and read, Kubrick's wife and brother-in-law are most pleased with the final result. They are quite satisfied that Spielberg was true to SK's ideas about the film, and did a good job of sitting on his sickly sweet emotional side. So the balance, or rather blend of the two should prove entertaining. Besides, I loved the kid in Sixth Sense and I can't wait to see him in this new project. Here's hoping it doesn't suck.
L.
I was able to pick up a signed copy at my local Barnes, but that was only because none of the books had been put out yet (this was around noon on tuesday). Signed or no, I suggest people run, not walk, to their nearest store and pick up a copy. Wonderful book.
---Peter
Speaking of Neil G., has anyone been able to pick up one of the 5000 signed copies of American Gods? Every book store in my area that had them was wiped out within an hour of opening.(They're now appearing on ebay for twice the price.) I ended up calling Borders in NY where NG was doing a signing that evening and was able to obtain a personalized copy. So, if anyone wants a signed copy, my suggestion is go over to neilgaiman.com, check his tour schedule, and they have phone numbers for each store. Call the store and I'm sure they'd arrange it for you.
"By the Christ Child's Left Testicle!! Gaiman's in Pasadena on the 28th and I have tickets to see the advanced screening of AI! "
Ah! If Kubrick had completed his own project I'd be first in line. Now, I doubt I'd be able to take it.
By the Christ Child's Left Testicle!! Gaiman's in Pasadena on the 28th and I have tickets to see the advanced screening of AI!
{insert a little dance of inventive self-invective here}
::sigh::
L.
Frank,
I'm ONLY joking. No one here is "Zeno-phobic"!
re: Spider-Man. Joe Straczynski?! I've been away from those comics for some time. I'll have to go in this weekend and see what they've been doing these days. Sounds like some interesting items like 'Ultimate Spider-Man' are out there now too. I still think Raimi is a little more problematic as a director and my purist skepticism about the movie holds till I see it.
"In the ned", of course, should read "in the end". *kicks self*
Joseph - Hot damn, we've got to wait another 2-3 weeks in the UK (the exact date eludes me) afore we get American Gods. HimsElf's cover blurb - a very rare occurence, as I understand it - is plastered all over the front page of www.neilgaiman.com, too.
Now, I've REALLY got to get Red Badge of Courage devoured before then... did you get A Kestrel For A Knave, in the ned? If so, have you read it?
Best,
Jes
Frank,
Yes indeedy, that's the Kevin Smith we're talking about.
Is that the Kevin Smith of "Clerks" movie fame?
HAHA, sorry, that's Xenophobia. Looks embarrassed.
Someone accused me of Zenophobia?? The "Aliens" I refered to were the outer space kind. The inner space ones are in my heart and are my brothers under the skin. We will one day take this country back for the people, not just the rich elite.
Ray -
So far, digging Smith's version of Oliver Queen (and c'mon, even as superheroes go, isn't dressing up as a bizzare version of Robin Hood a little more twisted than most?). Especially enjoyed this month's issue, with plenty of inter-character fun as the JLA meets their supposedly deceased comrade.
Oh, and Kevin Smith can write dialogue for Batman anytime he likes. I also love his take on the little interchanges between Flash and Green Lantern.
Worth keeping an eye on.
On another note, just returned from the Neil Gaiman signing at Evanston's own The Stars Our Destination (unfortunately moved from Belmont in Chicago due to rent issues (and, I was pleased to note to uberowner Alice, the space is still empty)). Mr. Gaiman was, as usual, gentlemanly and warm. I now have the pleasure of being about 40 pages into "American Gods," and I can already feel that this is going to be a humdinger. I just wish that I had the courage to ask him how an Englishman ends up in, of all places, Minnesota.
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
Speaking of comics....
Anybody into the new Green Arrow book written by Kevin Smith? If so, what do ya think?
Joseph - Hey, right there on the same page with you when it comes to Ultimate Spider Man. As for other Bendis stuff, I would recommend Torso, a remarkable re-telling of Elliot Ness' final case, and the seedy crime double punch of Goldfish and Jinx. Oh, not forgetting Powers...
Man, that Bendis, his dialogue is to die for.
Best regards
Jes
RE: John Lee Hooker.
Can you just imagine the jazz funeral send-off and then the subsequent jam session on St. Peter's front porch?!
Man, what a way to start the summer.
L.
It looked like a very unpromising evening.
I trundled over to the Lakewood Center for the Arts after work, and found the place filling with pleasant, older, whitebread folks sipping plastic cups of chardonnay and pinot noir, and greeting one another as old friends. Although I recognized a few coworkers, I didn't see anyone I really felt like talking to, so I spent a lot of time alone, looking at the juried paintings, photographs, and sculpture.
Then Harlan Ellison showed up.
I kept an eye on him and the elderly gentleman I took to be Will Eisner as they were shepherded by a pale giant (Mike Richardson, it turned out) through the crowd, which, to a man, probably didn't know either of them from Adam.
We filed into the auditorium, took our seats, and listened to an interminable parade of local dignitaries thanking one another and pointing out the other good folks in the audience who make this annual arts festival in Lake Oswego, Oregon happen. Richardson, founder and CEO of Dark Horse Comics, gave an earnest speech about his crusade to make comic books a respected American art form; Eisner offered some cultured remarks about how comics were an "immigrant art form" that taught many recent arrivals to these shores about the American way of life and American values in simple language and pictures.
Then Ellison hit the stage. He fiddled with the mike, trying to remove it from the lectern, gave up, and walked out to the center of the floor to speak unassisted by electronics.
An alert and helpful floor manager brought up the stage lights, Ellison looked mock startled, cried, "I confess! I'm a Jew!" and in the ensuing laughter, we were off to the races. I think Ellison shocked the well-to-do, whitebread, and highly Catholic crowd many times -- telling the story of his remarks to a hotel desk clerk when he was invited to speak at Notre Dame, admitting that he'd had the baby of one of the female City Councilors whose name he'd heard during the preceding speeches and liked (she was puzzled but not insulted; and I later heard one of her friends say "I almost peed my pants when I heard that!"), and NEARLY saying the F-word twice but managing to catch himself -- but this was an artsy crowd rather than your typical Lake Oswego audience, and I think they ended up liking him.
During the dining portion, a small circle of us heard his stories about slugging a second lieutenant during his induction into the Army, and ensuring that Sgt. Benzick, who had it in for him at Ranger training, broke his back. I FINALLY learned how he managed to get his hands on some official Donnie Osmond stationery. And, joy of joys, I got to stroll with the man alone back to his motel.
Another rabid fan who had no idea Ellison was going to be there, and happened to come to the event only because his wife dragged him there, wandered into the auditorium just as Ellison was being introduced and said "It can't be! It's GOD!" He and his wife stood me to a couple drinks after Da Man returned to his motel to call Susan and retire. (Oh yes: Susan, your husband did forward your regards, for which much thanks.)
You can bet I was a happy creature driving home last night, and today!
If you can make it to the festival at all, swing by close to the scheduled panel discussions at 3 and 7 p.m. Saturday, and you'll likely catch HE on the exhibition floor. He may be there Sunday afternoon, as well, but I don't know when. The exhibit itself is well worth it: original comic art of Superman, Batman, Prince Valiant from the late 1930s, Archie from the 1940s ("That poor kid has been trying to get laid for a LONG time," Ellison cracked), the new Dark Horse heroes. I recognized pages from comics I own: The Watchmen, Hard Boiled, The Dark Knight!
Alex -
It may sounds trite, but we are so in agreement on Bendis' work that it's ridiculous. I was HIGHLY skeptical of the whole Ultimate Marvel idea, but it's proven to be a wonderful re-examination of the history and motivations of Peter Parker.
Case in point: how many damn times have we (the comic readers among us, that is) heard the origin story and gone through the death of Uncle Ben? And yet, when Bendis got his nimble fingers on it, that origin sang again - reminding us that this isn't just the origin of Spider-Man. This is also the story of a 15 -year-old boy losing his beloved uncle, and having the crushing guilt descend on him that he could have prevented the murder.
And hey, who can't help but like Kong? The character is a great example of Bendis' abaility to blend comedy and drama. Also, there are very few writers in comics who have the ability to script dialogue and non-dialogue frames equally well. Bendis does. Personal favorite? The page of J. Jonah Jameson talking to Aunt May on the phone. Great writing - great art. Funny as hell.
Anyway, I am on a mission to read more of Bendis' back stuff. Any suggestions as to where I should start?
As for the Spider-Man movie, I am a great admirer of many of the actors involved (and highly intrigued by the J. Simmons - I don't have cable, so have never seen his work on "Oz") so will definitely see it. As for the choice of director, I feel the movie is in fine hands. Sure, Raimi can handle the action stuff and the comedy with no problem. What I am most assured about, however, is his touch with character. Go and rent "A Simple Plan," and you'll discover (a) one of the most cruelly ignored films in movie history, (b) a movie brilliant in almost every respect, and (c) Raimi's warm-up for films about weird things happening out of the blue to normal people.
If Spider-Man isn't about weird things happening to normal people, what is?
Regards,
Joseph (now posting over a wireless connection - Apple Airport rocks)
Lotta things; time to sing.
On Cirque du Soleil: They'll be raising their tent here in Philadelphia in September. Anyone in the rather large Philly contingent here for a Cirque du So-HE aficionadoes meeting?
On Spider-Man, movie and comic. Yes, I like what Straczynski is doing on the book. A lot. I should point out, however, that to me, JMS's take continues what Paul Jenkins has been doing (since a few months before JMS's debut)on the sister book PETER PARKER, SPIDER-MAN. Peter's human again. He's wisecracking again, and it's not formulaic anymore. And for all that, he's still one of the most introspective heroes. He's again living with the sort of troubles that plagued him as a teen, albeit ones suited to a more mature photog/teacher (I love this, by the by)/sooper-heero. Aunt May's making wheatcakes. And there are things going on that are big, but do not overshadow the core humanity of this most human hero.
And the retelling comic; the roots Spider-Man book, ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN, is excellent as well; revisiting themes and characters and experiences in a teen Spider-Man's world WITHOUT retracing the Lee/Ditko issues, a la John Byrne. Brian Michael Bendis is a writer I'll follow onto any project, from TORSO, his study of Cleveland's Torso Killer and Elliott Ness's pursuit of same, to his cops-in-a-superhero-world-as-written-by-David-Mamet POWERS, to his DAREDEVIL, his HILARIOUS Hollywood tell-all, FORTUNE AND GLORY, et cetera. And his Spider-Man is the real, updated, deal.
The movie? It looks good. Raimi has always been a huge ciomics fan, and he respects the characters and the form. Me, I'm just surprised he hasn't followed Barker, JMS, Kevin Smith, Bob Gale, Jeph Loeb, and a few others to do comics of his own. Yes; some things may be slightly different in the movie (Gwen Stacy, please!), but I think I'll enjoy it--and I rarely enjoy the sort of actioners Hokeywood's put out of late.
Tobey Maguire? Good actor. I think he'll pull it off.
Of course, right now, having not seen any of the flick, I think Maguire's a wee bit old and bland of face for PP, but ...
(This I say, being as I am an almost dead ringer for the current Peter Parker now that the beard is gone ...)
HARLAN: Is there as yet a release date for TROUBLEMAKERS?
JUSTIN: I get those twitches sometimes, but they usually pass in a few minutes to an hour, tops. Of course, stress doesn't reall affect me (It should be noted that I *DO* have epilepsy, but the two things aren't related). Get well--maybe find a pool to float in. I recommend putting legs up and out on the pools edge and butt against the wall, and just let the water hold you up.
WorldCon: I HATE Dragon*Con. They purposefully REschedule their con to coincide with the WorldCon whenever it's on American soil. Apparently, they do not understand that cons are symbiotic; one works as advertising and inducement for another. Splitting the guest and attendee pool like this is foolish beyond extreme. And, damnit, the WorldCon's finally in my hometown and I won't get to see or meet Harlan!
John Lee. Man. The Hoochie Coochie Man up and left--and just when I've started to teach myself the guitar! Crap and a half. John Lee Hooker always seemed like forever.
On the subject of music, a great a capella group from Britain is performing a few shows around the Philadelphia area this weekend. Artisan, from Yorkshire is a three-person group whose voices are ice-clear and beautiful when twirling in harmonies. The songs are folky, or funny, or passionate, or evocative, and just plain great. The lyrics are intelligent, often hilarious, often moving, and full of a real social conscience that never gets preachy. Add to this that the three singers (one of whom writes all the songs and lyrics) are absolute joys, and that one, the wife of the songwriter, is a published sf/f author who's had stories in some DAW anthologies and elsewhere ...
Go. It's rewarding. Check out their few US dates (one of which was last night) at www.artifact.demon.co.uk ... you'll thank me.
Long-winded again ...
I was terribly saddened to read out Mr. Hooker's death. I'll admit that I'm of the age group that first saw him in "The Blues Brothers", but I'll never forget his incredible voice and music. God bless that he went peacefully.
John Lee Hooker, Caroll O'Connor, RIP.
Colleen - A tremendous help, thanks!
Hello all.
I just read on Slashdot that Excite@home are pulling a bunch of Newsgroups due to DMCA violations.
The link is
http://slashdot.org/yro/01/06/22/006203.shtml
A list of the groups that are being pulled are;
alt.binaries.hustler
alt.binaries.playgirl
alt.binaries.penthouse
alt.binaries.movies
alt.binaries.pictures.centerfolds.playboy
alt.binaries.movies.divx
alt.binaries.movies.purity
alt.binaries.movies.shadowrealm
alt.binaries.movies.shadowrealm.repost
alt.binaries.movies.mirage-mrg
To me, this looks like a copyright issue. Will this have any bearing on Mr Ellison's case?
Regards,
Kerry
Finder, regarding your Heritage Press question. Do an online search with Google using the phrase "Heritage press catalog"-a heading Loganberry Books: Heritage Press comes up with a nice long list of Heritage titles(www.logan.com/loganberry). Also, there is a Heritage Press catalog(1993), bu Michael Bussacco listed at the Library of Congress-check your nearest library & see if any library in your state has a copy. Hope this helps.
John,
None taken. I see your point. You want lock-step confirmity, though, AYNs have nothing on followers of Japanese bands. How'd you like to be a pop band, go out on stage and see hundreds of people dressed EXACTLY like you? They and the costume fetishists are just a little scary. Now that's lockstep conformity rebellion. :)
Joseph, I don't have a problem with tattoos; don't have a problem with how anyone looks for that matter. I was just trying to make a point that these so-called "rebels" actually march in lock-step conformity, looking like carbon copies of one another. Sorry if you took offense.
John -
First off, I completely agree with you on the direction that JMS is taking on Amazing Spider-Man. So far it has been some really nice new stuff (though I must admit I had a sneaking (and sinking) suspicion that Ezekiel would turn out to be Peter from the future). Personal favorite line so far? "Individually, spider's are morons."
Oh, and Scott Campbell's covers certainly don't hurt.
I also recommend that you take a gander over at Paul Jenkins' work on Peter Parker: Spider-Man. He's doing some really nice work with Peter's usual mix of regrets, fears and "hey, I'm a superhero!"
As for angry young nitwits (AYNs) in music, I'll agree with you on the empty howling into the night for a lot of these nitwits (though I'll admit a great deal of admiration for Marshall Mather's "Stan," a song that should be listened to while reading Mr. Ellison's "Xenogenesis"). However, what's with the crack about tattoos? I have one, and you don't see me machoing my way through dance clubs (well, I also don't gyrate, and my wife would give me a good shot to the ribs). I think it's a matter of that tattoos are "chic" at the moment (of all things, why permanent ink?) and so a lot of these AYNs have them.
Regards,
Joseph
David, I took a look at some of your other stories, even before you suggested it! I thought your article about men and friendship was particularly intriguing. Unfortunately, sometimes it seems like the progress regarding traditional gender roles is in retreat. I'm guessing I'm a little younger than you, David, but young men today seem more enslaved than ever. I know enslaved is a funny term to use about men, but take a peek inside a typical twentysomething nightclub and you'll see what I mean!
You'll find men adopting would-be macho stereotypes that would shame even Papa Hemingway and John Wayne. It's as if many men today are so confused and frightened by the changing world that they seek refuge in an ideal of masculinity that is inherently artificial.
I know I'm too young to sound like an old crank but am I the only one who's noticed a sharp increase in rude behavior? Even the music that sells these days reflects that: angry young men with tribal piercings and tattoos fill the airwaves, finding as many permutations of the word "fuck" as possible. There's nothing wrong with a little profanity, but raw anger mixed with a lack of ethics is a deadly and stupid combination.
David - I'll do the commentaries this weekend. You guys are gonna want to read them, it's excellent work.
I fixed the pipe description in the caption to the HE photo on my Web site, okay?
The rest of youse guys, check out a couple of the other pieces on the site, please? Just pick a couple at random. It's good stuff, believe me.
Rick, ya think you could get my commentary on _Stalking the Nightmare_ formatted and up on your site sometime in this millennium? I'm doing steady work on my summaries and critiques of _Love Ain't Nothing But Sex Misspelled_....
Justin, all eye-twitching aside, your comments about the Spiderman movie poster makes me wonder if anyone here has taken a look at what Joe Stracynzki is doing with the comic. In my opinion, he's made the Amazing Spiderman exciting again,taking a more science fictional approach to the stories. I honestly haven't had this much fun reading a traditional superhero comic in years.
Justin - For me, it's a combination of stress and lack of sleep that sets the right eye to twitching - so badly at times that my co-workers stop, stare and grow concerned (not so much that I've developed a twitch, but if that twitch has any short-term, run-amuck kind of implications for them. Hell, they KNOW I'm twitchy...)
Alejandro - thanks for the heads up; I'd have completely sleepwalked through my evening without even remembering to flip to Comedy Central.
All - I've recently taken a shine to the gorgeous slipcased editions of classic books that the Heritage Press has been putting out since the early 30s (as mass market counterparts to the volumes issued by the Limited Editions Club). I've been trying to find a quick reference list of the titles published, but have so far come up empty across the WWW. Before I slip off to Borders to check old book price guides or start the arduous task of compiling a list through judicious searches at the Advanced Book Exchange, are there any other Heritage Press afficianados who might be able to point me in the direction of a handy, simple on-line reference? (Hey, even a Finder has to know his limitations.)
Thanks for the info, Harlan. By the way, will you, by any chance, be attending the Worldcon in Philly this August?
--Duane
Justin
Why are you a DC man? I've been away from Marvel for a long time because the quality (particularly the art) plummeted beyond my tolerance. But it was Marvel who came up with the frenzied, troubled, fucked-up heroes (and hero/villains, which was another innovation of theirs)and the tapestry of self-effacing alliterative humor delivered with grace by Stan (the man) Lee. Of course, I'm talking about days before graphic novel masterpieces like Watchmen came along (DC). Nowadays you can expect pretty much the same "product" from both Marvel and DC.
My concern about Raimi's Spider-Man movie is the very probable thinning of key elements that made the book great: Spider-Man being mistaken for a criminal no matter what he did (cops were always firing at him); J Jonah Jameson, icon for the conservatives, bent on destroying Spidey's credibility; and CONSTANT problems weighing against Parker in his daily life. The movie, I'm afraid, may turn out too derivative, lifting things from what made earlier movies successful (like Burton's first Batman). And I'm not interested in seeing that. Potentially, in style and substance, this film should be a landmark. But I even have some trouble with Tobey McGuire. I love him, I think he's EXTREMELY talented. I'm a Pleasantville fanatic. But, visually, I don't see him as Parker. But these are the rantings of a purist, so what are you gonna do? (An additional note, even the music is important: When Ralph Bakshi did his animated version in the 60's the one element that made it work so well - apart from a perfect voice actor - was the rock score. It captured the "feel" perfectly. It was one of the best orchestrated ever, and I believe the guy who did the theme had been doing work with Frank Zappa. I forgot his name, though. Assuming I ever knew it).
I MAY see the movie when it comes out depending on what I read and see in clips. Otherwise, I'll just go out and play basketball instead.
At any rate, I saw that online poster you were talking about too. It did look great. Really vibrant.
Justin--
Heh, had the exact same problem myself a few weeks ago. As a pre-med dropout (now in east asian studies, of all things) and a bit of a hypochondriac, I thought (when it persisted for several days) that I was developing either a brain tumor or multiple sclerosis (later web research indicated that 1 twitchy eye is usually not a sign of brain cancer). My folks said it was stress, which made no sense because it was two weeks into the summer and all I had been doing for the past several days was reading and playing computer games (In anticipation of any remarks--yes I then thought it might be eyestrain, and didn't read or watch screens for two days--ichh--but to no avail).
Anyway, it went away in a week and a half....I didn't even notice until maybe a few days after that.
Not to be persnikity, but are we talking about ebooks? I'm a little bit confused. When I hear iBook, I think of the Apple laptops.
HE to Duane:
TROUBLEMAKERS is a one-off, as my wife phrases it in her Pidgen-Limey. It is the first co-published EDGEWORKS ABBEY offering. This one, as noted, in conjunction with Byron Preiss Visual Communication's iBooks. It is an original collection. Further titles from Edgeworks Abbey will either be with allied distributing companies, or solo. No immediate plans for any further iBook titles of Ellison material.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Celebrated the 21st birthday of my son last week. Wish I had my shit that together at 21; then again if I had, probably never would have hooked up with his mother, and my current wife and I would be celebrating 24 years this Friday instead of 4. Ah but what an excellent four years; like Spencer Tracy said, there may not be much meat but what's there is cherce (choice).
Justin
Re: the twitch under the eyelid. Welcome to the world of adulthood and stress reactions. Dad's intentions are always good, but, as a son and as a father, it's understandable that "Wait it out, maybe it'll go away" or "Maybe he'll outgrow it" doesn't shine the bulldog.
Personally, I've experienced that reaction for years; comes with the job, parenting, divorce, remarriage, all that good stuff. Since January (post-seizure), it's occasionally accompanied by the trembling of hands; sometimes it makes me feel like Doc Holliday facing Johnny Ringo in "Tombstone," sometimes it just makes me feel old.
What you need, J., is a de-stressing device. Something you can call up to clear your head for a moment, get things back in perspective, make you laugh, etc. Somedays, it's picturing Antonio Banderas as El Mariachi walking down the street with Los Lobos' "Mariachi Suite" playing in the background. Hearing some song in my head, depending on the mood (Steely Dan, Hendrix, Santana, MJQ - I've also been known to put on the headphones, stick the EnVogue "Free Your Mind" and crank it up). A line of poetry . Or when I think about how great my wife is, and how she can look so elegant in anything from a suit to her wedding dress to one of my denim shirts and a pair of jeans.
Last Sunday, it was "The Replacement," specifically the scene when the striking football players trash Keanu's truck and two of his fellow replacement players step in, are told to piss off by the strikers, causing one of the replacement linemen to empty half the clip of a Glock into the star QB's ride before he advised them to not only upright the truck but also to "wax that muthafucker too!" (I found that most enjoyable at the time. Still do. I'm warped, I admit it.)
People like us (and there are probably many other residents of Webderland this also applies to) will tend to put more pressure on ourselves in addition to what's already there. Cause we care about what we do and how well we do it. Whatever it is Justin, your destressing technique, you'll find it.
And a good day to all.
Oh, P.S.- We all like good comic book movies, right? There's a pretty impressive poster image for the new Spider Man movie to be found here:
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=9360
Just thought I'd let you know. I'm more of a D.C. man myself, but this is looking pretty good.
I'm up before noon. An outrage, for certain, but it had to be done. By my watch, I have about two hours to get packed. My New Student Orientation at the University of Arizona is this weekend, and I have about two hours to pack my things and get this show on the road, with only my beloved copy of Edgeworks 3 for company. It will be my first visit to the place where, if all goes well, I will be spending at least the next year or two of my life. I'm just stalling right now, munching on some elderly Grape Nuts and trying to wake up. I find myself wondering:
Is there a doctor? Is there a doctor in the house? I ask merely because I seem to have developed, in the last 72 hours, a nervous sort of a twitch just beneath my left eyelid, and it won't go away. It's not painful, just aggrivating to the point that it has suddenly knocked 'humanity' into the number two spot on my list of things that irritate the hell out of me. I've never had anything like it happen before, and the best I've heard thus far is: "Uh...yeah, well, it happens. Wait for it to go away." Great advice, thanks Dad.
Anyway, I know you'd all love to hear me gripe about my medical problems like a bitter old man, but I've got to be on my way. Since I won't be around on Sunday, I'd like to extend to Susan my hope that she has a wonderful birthday this weekend.
If I make it back alive, I'll see you all next week.
J
Speaking of the Cirque Du Soleil…
Drallion starts their Chicago run at the United Center this Friday and runs until July 29. Apparently tickets are going fast so I do suggest buying yours ASAP. I know there is a 1-800 line for ticket reservations. More information is available on their website (www.cirquedusoleil.com).
I already got mine for opening night.
Have yet to see Blue Man Group. It's on my agenda of things to do as soon as I possibly can alongside reading Neil's "American Gods" (which I got yesterday; beautiful book design; can't wait to crack it open; will do so as sson as I am done with his "Smoke and Mirrors".
Oh, yes and the new season of South Park starts tonight. Woo-hoo.
I love Blue Man Group performances. My take on it (your mileage may vary) is that they're like cats, or aliens, investigating humans. THey're curious, and willing to try things with jello that we would never think of. Wonderful show.
Seems the filters think that french punctuation is HTML. Hmm. The missing word would be "O".
L.
Mitch~
About Blue Man: What I can't get out of my head is those eyes. That wide-eyed intensely curious gaze that makes one feel as if they are speaking to you in a language that your body knows on a cellular level but your brain has long since forgotten. Those eyes will haunt me for a very long time, I think.
I think the only other performance I've seen in my life that affected me so viscerally was Cirque du Soleil -- Mysteré with the Taiko, > with the water, Drallion with the voice of an androgynous angel (read countertenor).
Work filled all my time today. Still recovering from overload Vegas-style. Someone suggested to me that I learn shorthand as a method for capturing ideas and images in transit, as well as for capturing the fading few moments of a dream on the edge of waking.
L.
PS David L. - Could you email me your URL? Like an idiot, I didn't bookmark it. Thanks.
I saw Blue Man Group in NYC. Astounding. I spent the whole show either laughing, or staring in awe. Their show is a multimedia combination of music, performance art and audience participation; sometimes simple, sometimes smart, always fascinating. You'll never look at Twinkies the same way again.
Mitch
I'm glad this forum exists, and am happily surprised that HE himself takes the time to check in every now and again. I've been a worshipper at the altar of Ellison ever since finding a battered copy of LOVE AIN'T NOTHING BUT SEX MISSPELLED in a used bookstore.
I saw the posts about TROUBLEMAKERS, and was curious: will ibooks be bringing out more HE titles, a la Bester and Zelazny?
--Duane
Frank
"The Godlike fixation with Aliens may not be a very healthy pastime though".
I've always been sort of a thumbs-up guy to xenophobia myself.
The Abyss does borrow from a few notable movies, but, it was quite a ride to be sure. The Godlike fixation with Aliens may not be a very healthy pastime though.
Naiki:
Well, now you can get off on the original story, 'In The Abyss,' now that you know where the movie came from.
Tono-bungay was funny in the "Victorian" way - pretty intrinsic to the time; if you cross-reference the tone to Oscar Wilde-style glibness, surprisingly, it can connect. It may not be "dim-wit" funny, but Wells did have some dim-wits in some of his yarns.
HE: What do I know from smokin'? It was a very ignorant guess, is all. I'll correct the photo caption when I can -- probably in a few days or so. And yes, you will see me in Oregon in a couple days: I'm docent-ing it on the floor of the comics exhibition Saturday from 10 to 3 (whereupon the wife and I will use our tickets to see the first panel of the day). I guess you won't be present at the chocolate-and-champagne reception Thursday evening? Work to be done at Dark Horse, and allathat?
Thanks for the nods, Ray and Colleen!
David Loftus:
Dug your HE non-interview. And howzabout that b& w photo of the man hisownself, wow, very cool!
The Abyss. Awww, that movie. I've seen it...i think five times. It's like Cronenberg's The Fly. One of those things I watched when I was small and held me.
Rob>>yeah, tono-bungay actually was funny, wasn't it! i mean, i'm not being deliberately tootie here, it was funny, but it was a kind of funny i didn't get right away, it's not manic funny like ...pynchon, or dry bitter funny like red meat comics, or even dimwit funny, or long winding funny like harlan's favourite george eliot, or e.m. forster cambridge funny. it's a different kind of funny. there is a clarity and crispness to it, that, lemme think who else shares... someone might tell me aldous huxley?
HE to David Loftus:
Went to your website and read that pre-Susan 1985 "non-interview." Very nice piece, well-organized, compact, and sensible. The complimentary stuff embarrasses me, but I thank you for it alla same. Actually, with the exception of projects listed in the final graph that I've yet to produce, you got everything dead correct. Except...
What in the world gave you the idea that the $800 Danish briar I'm smoking is a meerschaum? Meerschaum is white, it's solidified sea-foam. The pipe sticking out of my face is a gorgeous plateau briar, hand-carved. Of course, sadly, I smoke pipes no more; but though I sold about 100 of them late last year to help fund the KICK Internet Piracy litigation, and sold them for about ten grand--I always had impeccable and urbane taste in pipes--I cannot find it in my heart to sell the remaining 2 or 300 that I enjoyed for so many years. I retain them as art objects. One of the aftermaths of the bypass surgery. Ah me.
I think the one in your photo is gone in the batch I sold. I think. But maybe not. Either way, you should correct the caption.
I presume I'll be seeing you in three or four days in Oregon.
Yr. pal, Harlan
David, I visited your website-liked the interview & picture of Da Man and your essay "Stalking the elusive codex". Speaking of which, the annual feeding frenzy known as the Friends of the Library booksale is at the end of July-this is the largest one in the U.S. If anyone is looking for a particular book, let me know & I will hunt for it(Mr. Ellison, I always look for Kersh titles-alas, no luck yet). Last time I found a 3-vol. set of Outlaws of the Marsh, bound in silk & printed on hemp paper for the measly sum of $5.00. On another note, interviews with another wordsmith, Paul Theruox, can be found at honoluluweekly.com-click on Summer books issue and at honoluluadvertiser.com-click on back issues, May 14th-"The truth according to Paul Theroux".
I added a bunch of stuff to my Web site late last night (www.david-loftus.com).
Of possible interest to the gang here is a "non-interview" with Harlan Ellison dating from the spring of 1985. Obviously VERY old news, but I like to think it was engagingly written. I've left in a number of errors and red herrings because that was what I knew and wrote at the time.
The real jewel is a photo of Da Man I took back in 1982, seated at his Olympia manual with meerschaum in mouth. Scroll down to see that.
Peg & Jes -
I don't know why this question occured to me as I was walking to the office today, but I was wondering if the Friday British Parliment meeting (the one where the Prime Minister has to answer questions from the oppositions) is broadcast in the United Kingdom? They show it here on C-SPAN, and I always find it among the more entertaining and enlightening shows on television.
Thanks,
Joseph
Upon returning from Vegas, (and being informed that I'm not allowed to go again *until* I've both read and seen Fear and Loathing), two things:
A) Go see Blue Man Group. I had the wonder of seeing them at the Luxor. If you have no idea who the Blue Man Group is, they're the blue guys that are doing the Intel Pentium commercials. http://www.blueman.com - They apparently also have shows in NY, Boston and Chicago. And their message is a lot more highbrow than mimes with homemade drums. I still can't wipe the image of those *eyes* out of my head.
B) Anyone else here seen Atlantis yet? We went today and I was just wondering precisely how many Jules Verne references Disney could cram into one movie. (I must also note that, in the spirit of disbelieving talking mice, one cannot translate Viking runes incorrectly to get *Ireland* mixed up with *Iceland*. And coelacanth probably don't do well in aquariums, even fairly sizable ones.) All-in-all, it was an okay flick. "...and NO SINGING!"
L.
The main print interview for the July Locus will be with HE. Due out in about 3 weeks.
That should, of course, read "from a brain tumor" in the last sentence.
Especially since Tim Wiegel, one of the most decent men in Chicago, passed away yesterday morning. Very, very unfortunate. For those of you who appreciate chilling coincidences, note that Tim Wiegel's freshman roommate at Yale was Gene Siskel, who also passed away form a brain tumor.
Ray,
Love you to death and all that, but...
Erm...
Aw, heck. I'm not going to throw explitives around. Let's just say that I'm more ticked about the weekends results than you.
Regards,
Joseph
http://locusmag.com/2001/Departments/Letters06.html Follow this link re: a letter about Dr. HE. Also, Neil Gaiman's new one comes out tomorrow and over at americangods.com, HE's book blurb greets all new visitors.
Joseph,
Da Cubs did their part to help the Sox this weekend by sweeping the Twinkies, but duh Sox did jack squat to help the Cubs with the redbirds. Where's the reciprocation, I ask?
Justin: (Re: Spider Jerusalem) - Yeah, I know, the Thompson quote about being so drunk/drugged that he saw things through a round eye and a square eye is just one heavy hint as to his SJ's origins....
Kerry
Well, at least in that case the story was public domain. Guess Cameron decided to scrounge that kind of material once he understood you can actually get sued when you lift stories from contemporaries. Either that or he actually thought Harlan was public domain too.
Rob,
James Cameron using other peoples ideas for films. Never!!!
I'll be back.
Kerry
Yo! Naiki! Hey, I don't mind y'at all!
In response to your question, helllllll, no: another bunch of non-sf books Wells had cranked out included 'Bealby: A Holiday', 'The History of Mr. Polly', 'The Dream' and 'The New Machiavelli'. Most of them are comedies. As for the reference to Tono-Bungay (basically about an aphrodesiac hoax virtually anticipating the corruption of today's pharmaceutical industry, the title referring to the name of the drug), well, I'm not sure if anyone was ever reading ANY of these titles. I think they're fascinating, though. They were ALL humorous books. But Wells was also responsible for a little non-fiction outing called 'Outline of History'. Now THAT was a good story.
One observation regarding some of his sf short stories: a couple (like The Plattner Story and The Story of Davidson's Eyes) involve a character discovering an entrance to an alternate dimension, or an alternate universe, and the descriptions Wells set forth, with some key features like tadpoles with human heads floating around and a green sun, read like a precursor to Sgt. Pepper. Since opium was a popular substance in the late 19th/early 20th centuries I have a suspicion that Wells was giving the experience a try, like many writers of the time.
One more little discovery for me: he wrote a short story called 'In The Abyss'. Read it some time. You may discover that it could be the source Jim Cameron used for his movie 'The Abyss'. It is exactly the same scenario - about the discovery of a strange, almost ghost-like alien lifeform living in a hidden city at the bottom of the sea. The hero has the same experience in his descent in a bathysphere as Ed Harris had in the movie. I think Wells wrote that one around 1901.
I'm telling you, the more you dig into Wells' stuff the more you respect his imagination and realize how much you've taken him for granted.
I am so sorry, Rob, I didn't read all of that paragraph. Don't mind me. Of course you have. I found it very odd, Tono Bungay, yet it didn't hold my attention. Must go back to it.
yo ROB>>When I was reading reading Salman Rushdie's Midnight's Children my literature tutor sent me off to the library to look for H.G. Wells' Tono Bungay, the one H.G. Wells book that no one ever reads. Did you? It was the sense of uncontrollable destiny that my tutor said linked the two books, of course he was right. Was that his only non science-fiction work?
Jes-
The primary inspiration for Spider Jerusalem actually came from "gonzo journalist" Hunter S. Thompson, who wrote FEAR AND LOATHING IN LAS VEGAS, among other things.
I am an enduring H.G. Wells fanatic (and a Lakers fan, too!). I am awed by the man’s abundant imagination. I discovered him in childhood and instantly became attached. But the power of his vision and his eloquence only enhanced my appreciation of his books as I got older. He can be experienced on so many levels - there’s something new to discover each time you re-read his stories. He is also taken for granted: many people are unaware of how many archetypes in science fiction he had created. There are the obvious ones like time travel, alien invasions, BEMs, "Mars" and invisibility but he is also the Brit responsible for SF concepts like traveling to alternate dimensions (Plattner Story), suspended animation and genetic engineering. His prose was forceful and mellifluous and often majestic, yet heavily satirical, much of it threaded with dark humor. Many of his short stories are solid, droll social satires. Upon rediscovering Wells recently I found books of his I never even new about previously: when he wanted to venture from science fiction he emerged with ironic novels like Kipps, The Wheels of Chance and Tono-Bungay. Whatever his influences (aside from his training in biology and Darwinism under T.H. Huxley) he was a landmark in the way he used the form to observe human nature and the problematic future for the human race. (Poe, Twain, Wilde and Wells were 19th century geniuses I would come to group together as satirists of a kind who had cast profound radiance on the course of provocative imaginative literature).
In modern times, some actually discard Wells’ social views. But it is important to understand things as they were in his time - the events that angered him - in order to understand the socialist ideas underlying his stories. It was a time capitalism was failing - raping the land for everything it had while gaining wealth for the few. Exploitation was rampant before ANY regulation existed. Communism was an untried economic theory that sounded good in a time when class rifts were leaving multitudes suffering in horrendous working conditions, many ill or dying. These factors - revealing so much about what people were willing to do to each other - stoked the author’s cynicism and had profound effects on his conscience.
I want to tell you about a book on Wells I came across recently. The author will remain unnamed. It was a coffee table scrapbook called ‘War of the Worlds’, a tribute to Wells. Glossy and colorful, it looked nice at first glance. But 15 minutes of flipping through its pages revealed a sloppy mishmash structure. Most of it was composed of bits and pieces of information that were interesting (like when Wells met Orson Welles after the infamous radio broadcast) but could have been easily downloaded from the Net at home. Worst of all it gives us a critical opinion of George Pal’s filmed version of Wells’ book - which I happen to be a fan of in spite of its liberties. The problem wasn’t the candor of the criticism but that it was based on gross misinformation that anyone who has seen the film would recognize. The author "observes" that the martian war machines in the movie were "flying" machines rather than the tripods depicted in the novel; "why," he asks, "didn’t they just fly to earth rather than arrive in hollowed meteors?" Now, that’s REALLY bad. Gene Barry explained to us clearly in the early part of the movie that they weren’t flying machines but tripods carried by invisible legs composed of magnetic flux (perhaps a concept a bit more convincing than the clunky metal rods in the novel). The film followed the same basic idea but depicted it with a higher technology. That author lost me as a reader right away. It was as though he looked at part of the movie once and then walked away. When you assemble any publication both the material and opinions put forth must be fully informed or you lose credibility and respect from the reader. You'd think that'd be obvious to anyone but this guy managed to pull it off through a publisher anyway. That was an easy buck.
I still think that I'm the one who behaved badly, but since you've all asked so nicely, I'll be a good sport and stick around. However, don't expect me to post much. I prefer to read what others have to say.
Thanks for your great stories, Mr. Ellison.
To all involved in the "apologizing spiral" - I say this as gently as I can - let it go.
This is, without a doubt, the gentlest spot for conversation I've ever experienced on the 'net; however, the occasional ill-thought comment and response occurs even here. What makes this board damn near unique is that the "combatants" almost always realize their error and apologize. But, cyberspace being what it is, the written form doesn't seem to convey the depth of anguish we feel over the original misstatement. So the "loser" of the conflict gets the notion that to "prove their sincerity" they must withdraw from participation, even temporarily.
It's not necessary.
Really.
I suggest, humbly, that we simply adapt to our purposes here the "real world" form for handling a non-malicious misstatement. Apologize, accept it and move on.
Trust me - no further action is necessary. The permanent, public announcement of your apology is already so foreign to normal cyberspace relations that it should be the gold standard of behaviour. In the wild 'net - the standard is flame, flame, flame....
If you feel you must leave, do so with our warmest regards for the fellowship we have already shared and know that you will be welcome should you ever return to this little campfire in the vast darkness of cyberspace.
To those still sharing the warmth of this phosphor glow - let them leave. Most folk, I'm certain, will return, if only to lurk. Those who don't probably didn't have their Head screwed on right to begin with.
Now, for some sappy, personal sentimentality. I have always visualized this place as sort of a Diner (or if you prefer, a neighborhood bar, like Callahan's) - (that image may have been helped by the main page of this little cyberworld when I first arrived) - regulars come and go, new faces appear, old ones fade away, but the constant bustle of energy, creativity, and comraderie remains. It ain't that cast that's important, with the possible exception of the Main Man himself, it's the place.
I'd like to take this moment to thank Rick, once again, for providing this forum for all of our benefit. You have created a place in cyberspace that is as real in my mind as any ediface of stone and wood ever erected by the hand of man. I am humbled by your generosity and your kind spirit, which infuses this place with a warm glow. Thank you.
Susan --
deal accepted, though I don't think there'll be much to look out for. Yes, a signed copy would be nice -- please send it to the address I registered with HERC (as I'm leaving the UK for good in a short while) and I'll send U. S. funds as soon as you tell me how much it cost you.
Thanks, Gunther
FG--
I'll echo the well thought-out pleas of Harlan and Justin. Don't leave.
Look, think of it this way: If more people (and especially those involved in writing, makin' movies, etc.) were as factually observant as you were--that is, if more people along the line were able to read/look at something (fictitious or otherwise) and say "hmm...ya know, something's a little off there...maybe a lot off. You all sure this is right?"--then maybe there wouldn't be so many grievous (albeit occasionally hilarious) factual/technological errors in entertainment, life, and so on...the SF genre in particular is rife with them, because most people are scientifically illiterate and/or innumerate.
And in your case, you would have done the story a service by correcting what was "wrong", if it had been a real mistake and not one of Harlan's brilliant subjunctive bonbons. I suspect HE himself has some experience with this fact-checking, ensuring-accuracy mode, what with his work on B5 and the Starlost fiasco.
Anyway, be glad you have the knowledge. I know nothing about guitars and didn't even get the reference--my brother, who is indeed knowledgeable in that area, had to point it out to me, heh.
Hi all
Been away for a bit, but I always lurk, so here's my first posting in a while. So much going on, it'd hard to know where to start, but...
Incognita Inc. - This is IN NO WAY a veiled demand on the precious time and money of the Ellisons, but will Incognita Inc be available to Unca Harlan-starved Brits (short of stowing away on plane)? I'm guessing it'll be collected sometime, somwhere, eventually...
Joseph J Finn - I still haven't got 'round to reading Red Badge of Courage. Soon, I promise. Otherwise; I'm a big Warren Ellis fan, but am collecting Transmet (very slowly) by the trade paperback. I am sorely tempted by the week to collect the single issues I'm missing, but Lonely City is out next week, so I guess I can wait. Plus, I just won an Ebay auction concerning the first 100 issues of Hellblazer. Got my reading cut out for me....
How many folks here visit the Warren Ellis forum? Intriguingly, my better half recently confused Ellis and HimsElf, mainly due to what she perceived as a no-bullshit attitude... I've long felt Spider Jerusalem to hold a little 'Glass Teat' within him...
Well, best to all
Jes
Aw c'mon, Fitzroy, you really ought to stay.
I think Fitzroy and Harlan just came face-to-face with one of the biggest problems with communicating over the internet:
Using a keyboard, you are typing out what your thoughts happen to be during a particular series of moments. Those thoughts can then, with magic-like geewhizzery, be sent IMMEDIATELY to your intended recipient. Alacazam. Poof. Then it's out there like a bullet- it cannot be unsent.
It's an entirely different story when you're sitting at your desk, pen in hand, papyrus carefully laid out in front of you and waiting to be decorated with your carefully thought-out, skillful prose. Because unlike the sort of ill-advised nattering so common to communications written with the somewhat dubious assistance of a computer keyboard, this particular communique has to sit in its place of honor on the mantlepiece until you work up the motivation to either drag it off to the post office or affix it to the ankle of Goober, your passenger pigeon, for delivery.
Point is, it sits there and you can think it over for a bit. When you're using the Internet, it just isn't done like that, and these kinds of misunderstandings are common. You may recall an incident a few months ago involving a post by Harlan, which I misunderstood entirely. I thought he was suggesting that I was a nice Jewish boy who, for whatever personal reasons, was trying to pass himself off as a Gentile. Our friend and mentor was appropriately horrified, and it was all sorted out in his next post. He was kidding, you understand. Therin lies another problem with Internet communication- since you're not face-to-face, and you often don't know the individual you are communicating with personally, it is often difficult to decrypt the intention behind certain letters, posts, or whatever. I believe Harlan's words at the time were, "the possibilities for misstating or misreading on these boards is cataclysmic."
Yeah, and these things happen. Quite often they can be good for a laugh if you let them. If it weren't for the internet, stupid as it can be, this community wouldn't exist at all, and none of us would have the opportunity to exchange words from time to time with (and I know you're all with me on this one) the greatest writer of our time.
This is a fascinating opportunity, and a great place to visit besides, and I would hate to see a valuable contributor turn away from that, even if only for a little while. Take care.
J
Harlan here, specific to Darrell, AKA "Fitzroy Guilderpost":
No, no, no, fer gawdsake don't take hiatus for such a misguided reason! You are a valuable voice in these environs; you asked, commented, posited a perfectly valid observation. Darrell, trust me on this, kiddo: you did NOTHING UNTOWARD. It was a smart and informed query, and polite throughout. IT WAS MY RUSH TO GAUCHERIE that caused the embroglio, however slight a fracas it might be. If you banish yourself, and deny the friends you've made here your companionship, it will be akin to falling off a bicycle caused by an unobserved bump in the road, but being so chagrined at having taken a tumble as your pals watched, thet you never traverse that street again.
I implore you to reconsider.
With respects, yr. pal, Harlan
Gunther:
Okay, we'll dip into our (considerably diminished) stock of HEMISPHERES, and send you one. What to charge you??????
Well, if we were AOL or Microsoft, we'd send it gratis, but times are a bit strrrrrretched at the moment, so let's do it like this: I'll pack up the magazine and send it off on Monday by a reasonable US Post Office method. Not slowest mail, but not express overnight sort-of-thing, either. A reasonable posting that won't break your budget. If United Airlines had any copies left, they'd charge you seven dollars ($7.00) plus overseas postage for it. We'll front the postage bill, and we'll get the magazine to you, and let you know on Webderland what the cost was. You add five bucks to it for the magazine itself, and send it in US bank cheque or equivalent (a form that won't require us to make special trips here-or-there to get it translated) in US dollars. Send it to HERC if you want, or to us directly. Whichever is more convenient for you.
If you want the magazine signed, please let us know before Monday. And for our efforts, the reciprocal part of this deal is that you keep your eyes peeled for any magazines, anthologies or books that publish Harlan's stories in Germany, Austria, Schleswig-Holstein, Bavaria, Transylvania or nearby duchies. If you find any, we will happily pay you for them, plus the cost of getting them to us. All you have to do is keep a lookout.
Okay? Terms acceptable? (Just reply on the usual Webderland bulletin board.
Waiting for your advisement... Susan.
Joseph Finn--
I'm not leaving for good. I'm taking a time out, which is my way of ending this silly episode. I know that Mr. Ellison apologized, but I'm not taking this time out because of hurt feelings. I deserved every word of Mr. Ellison's invective. My crassness surprises me, and I want to be sure that I've fully understood the consequences of thoughtless behavior before I post again. Mr. Ellison *does* know his stuff, and he gave us all a wonderful story to read, and I should shut up and be glad. And by the way, my real name is Darrell, so maybe I'll see you all down the road sometime.
Alejandro,
Let's just say - ditto. Could that explain Spdier's expression when he takes them? Of course, there's also the back story of how he got them in the 1st place, but would you want sunglasses handed to you in that...circumstance? ;)
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. Long day for you too, eh?
Susan --
it appears that REALMS OF FANTASY will only be shipped to inside the U. S. and Canada. In an earlier post, Harlan mentioned that you still had a few copies of HEMISPHERES with the story in it left, and that you could dig up and send one to me. Please let me know how much this costs and I'll send the money to HERC - it seems the easiest way to go from here.
I could venture a guess or two about those glasses, but, ah, eh, geez, I think this is a family forum, right? :)
God, I am going to be so sorry when I see that posted later on tonight. Awww, whaddafuck. You only live once, right?
Alejandro,
You put into words my feeling on Transmet #46 ever so much better than I could. Didn't you just have the feeling on that last page of "damn, this year is going to be a real hellraiser!"
Personal favorite art in the book (besides the last page, of course) - that heartbreaking shot of Spider looking up at the ceiling. That, and I adore the shift from black to white space. Certainly are some advantages to having a steady crew on a book, eh? Oh, and I should mention the (as usual) superb work by Rodney Ramos on inks. Ellis, Robertson and Ramos continously amaze me at how high a team effort can rise.
Oh, and I have to go buy another copy. I was reading it for the third time this morning while getting ready for work, and dripped water all over it from my wet hair. Stupid of me.
Oh, and where the hell was Channon holding those glasses? ;)
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
Joseph:
Not only did I pick Transmetropolitan #46 up but I read it three times. A beautiful piece of prose writing done justice by equally beautiful art. Darick's pencils are spare, simple, heartwrenching. The expressions on Spider's and Yelena's faces were worth gold. Warren shows us the human being behind the bastard, the man who really cares for the truth and the people most affected by it. And a man who knows the true meaning of friendship. It's all downhill for Spider and the gang from now on. And the Smiler better watch out; there is nothing worse for a tyrant than a man who already knows he is going to die.
It is the book of the week, no doubt about it.
FG -
I'm not sure how seriously to take your last post (not the Disney part - the leaving part). I mean, Mr. Ellison did apologize...
Regards (and fare thee wells, if need be),
Joseph
For everyone else -
Please run, do not walk, and pick up the two Warren Ellis books out this week at your local comic shop: Transmetropolitan #46, which has art so good that I'm panting for the day Darrick Robertson puts it up on eBay, and Bad World, a book on conspiracy theories that is by turns visciously hilarious and mind-numbingly depressing (Courtney Love arranged for her husband's death? Lordy). Both great stuff from a man at the top of his cranky game.
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. Go Cubs. Help the Sox pick up some games on Minnesota.
This is my last post to this bulletin board. Before I take my final leave, I urge everyone reading this to join my email campaign against the Disney Corporation. I have detected a grave problem in their animation department which has persisted for an unconscionably long time. If enough of us write in to point out their terribly misguided ways, I am confident that we will succeed in steering them back onto the course of righteousness. The problem, as you may have guessed, is two-fold:
(1)Mice do not talk;
(2)Mice do not wear pants, much less short, red pants.
I can only assume that Walt Disney lacked a proper education in biology, and did his best when creating his famous character. Alas, the simple country boy known to us as “Uncle Walt” never learned that rodents lack the vocal equipment necessary to form words, and the fashion sense that would tell them that pants are required in polite company. If viewers of our vast knowledge had been present by his drawing board, this decades long insult to mouse-kind might have been avoided. But we must not shed tears over the untold damage already done. No, we must look toward the future, and the protection of our children. Please lend your support to this most noble cause. Thank you.
And Mr. Ellison? The more I think about what I wrote, the stupider I feel.
That's R.A. LafferTy, and the book is 900 Grandmothers, his short story collection.
For those who enjoy the work of RA Laffery, Wildside Press has re-released a bunch of his older works. I mention for completists as it also has an HE blurb on the back cover.
Joseph,
No worries.
All: Together again and not for the first time! It's Harlan and Robin, and the boys are wonderful! Audible.Com is selling a downloadable version of the 2000x: "Repent, Harlequin!" Said the Ticktockman", starring Harlan Ellison, Robin Williams, Arte Johnson, and Stefan Rudnicki. Deprived of Beyond 2000x here in Phoenix, I was fortunate enough to be among those at World Horror Con 2000 who got to hear a taped version Harlan brought to the convention. It's great and I'm ordering this version as soon as I get outta here!
http://www.audible.com/huffman/store/amazonProduct.jsp?amazonCategory=product&productID=RT_TWOX_000008&source_code=WSAZS01001102000&scic=13
Shane,
Bleep. I knew I was forgetting to post something. That book has a nice full page ad in the current issue of "Previews."
By the way, there are 129 matches for "Ellison, Harlan" on Amazon.Com.
Folks: I did a little research and found the following: "Blast Off! Rockets, Robots, Rayguns and More from the Golden Age of Space Toys"
By Mike Richardson, Mark Young, and Steve Duin
Introduction by Harlan Ellison
Hardcover - 256 pages (September 28, 2001)
Dark Horse Comics; ISBN: 1569715769
http://www.darkhorse.com/products/pg_profile/sku_49100/sec_search/index.html
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1569715769/qid%3D992619560/104-9979176-7103950
Spaced out on toys
By Linda Rosenkrantz,
Copley News Service
http://www.s-t.com/daily/06-00/06-18-00/f04li178.htm
Can someone please explain to me how the term "fanboy" got started and what it means? The word seems uniquely associated with aficianados of science fiction and comic books. I'm a little in the dark because, although I'm no stranger to science fiction, I haven't attended many conventions. (Seeing adults dressed up as characters from "V" and "Dr. Who" tends to make one go into retreat.)
Delurking for a moment to be, I think, appropriately flippant: The Les Paul Broadcaster DOES exist.
Dave Barry has one, and Stephen King has repeatedly, publically, lusted after it whilst playing in a certain music group alongside Mr. Barry, Ms. Amy Tan, one Elvis P. (who does a mean accordian) and this amazing screamer name of Janis J.
If I may, having been faced with this particular issue more than once, when people discover my efforts at things literary to be, oh, how shall I put this: A lie (read: Fiction): It's fiction. A clever little lie. See, folks, fact was, for this particular purpose, borrrrrrrring. So I pushed at the parameters of that which we collectively call reality, shoehorned in some things that might be believable, greased the whole number with suspension of disbelief, and sent the whole tootin' effort down the slope of storytelling.
If it crashes and burns at the bottom, well, I didn't do my job in convincing you, dear and gentle reader, of what could be. If it flies, I did my job.
Now. If you want to focus on the small, the not-so important, well, okay. But you're missing the good part: The STORY.
My two cents.
'Scuse me, now. Off to do a workshop.
Until next time. . .
Frank-
I haven't seen the list, and I have no intention of ever looking at it. I love film, passionately, but "Best Of" lists never blip on my radar. If some unimaginative columnist or commitee decides to butter a bunch of filmmaker's parsnips by producing some asinine "best of" list, I find no reason to pay attention. I'm certainly not going to work myself into paroxysms of rage over the exclusion of my favorite movies. I'd rather go and watch one.
J
Actually, that part about being a peon goes a bit too far. I actually was thinking, Mr. Ellison, that you had made a simple mistake or that someone had given you bad information, and that you would want to correct it. This shows how thick-headed I am. Anyway, the rest of my last post still stands.
Mr Ellison-
I should apologize, not you. It was rude and ignorant of me to assume that you didn’t know what you were writing about. And I realize now that the tone of my posting could not have been more pedantic. When I posted my message, I was probably thinking something along the lines of “Ah ha! The Great Ellison has made a mistake. But I, a lowly peon, can help him!” I deserve the epithet of “fanboy” and again, I'm sorry.
Oh, and it's Oxford English Dictionary time, which means some new popular phrases make it in. My personal favorite? D'oh.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/abc/20010614/en/dictionary010614_1.html
Frank,
While I may not have agreed with all of the AFI's choices, I'll certainly disagree with your characterization of it as "PC." While it certainly had plenty of IBM references (see "2001" and HAL), it shows plenty of Macintosh influences in it's...
What's that? PC means...?
Oh.
Seriously, I didn't see it as a "politically correct" list. C'mon, it had Dirty Harry on it! Bonnie and Clyde! Whatever Happened to Baby Jane!
Leabing that aside, I may not have agreed with all of the choices (personally, I could have used "Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer" to shake things up a bit), but I agree with the intent of the list (to promote film preservation and curating) enough that I can simply regard it as a valid opinion (and hey, any list that gets some of us young'uns to run out and rent "Wait Until Dark" is just fine by me).
Films that I was happy to see on the list, in terms of getting new people to see them:
"Rebecca," the relatively forgotten Hitchcock movie.
"The Portrait of Dorian Gray"
Anything with Buster Keaton.
"The Day The Earth Stood Still"
"Gaslight"
"The Third Man"
"The Night of the Hunter"
Of course, there are films they missed. Hell, since it is an "American" list (where are the Canadian, Mexican and South American movies, then? Where is "El Norte"?) thrillers like "The Hidden Fortress" aren't even eligible.
I was curious what everyone thought of that horrid American Film Institute list of 100 best thrillers? Raiders Of The Lost Ark is great, but, is it a thriller? What about the others? This is a very pc list, and I am sure the voting that went into this was done by some very senile old crones who have a narrow viewpoint of what is thrilling. But that is my 2 cents, to be sure.
Nitpickers are nitpickers. And as much trivial bs as I know about {deleted for brevity's sake}, I don't think I've ever let something like that bother me about a story.
A film - yes. (The interior shots of the Shuttle in Armageddon literally made me burst out laughing)
But in words, eh. There's something more there to be gathered. Merely antelope under the cow-catcher.
It is my heartfelt belief, however, that one should never have to apologize for things said under one's own roof/domain name. Especially regarding picked nits. Besides, I personally know that warm cheery glow one gets inside from being flamed by HE himself. ::grin:: It's a experience one will cherish for a lifetime.
Warmest regards,
L.
aka Cavalaxis
RE: Fitzroy Guilderpost posting
I had the same reaction that Fitzroy did when he read the story. I suspect that he might be a serious guitar aficionado as am I.
When you read a story that crosses paths with an area you are particularly familiar with, the first thing that jumps into your
head are all the facts that you have worked so hard to build up so as to know something about the area in question.
Unfortunately, this wrecks your enjoyment of the story because all of a sudden you are snapped out of the narrative and are saying things like "...that doesn't make any sense, Leo and Les had totally different ideas about guitar building..." and you realize that you are flying off on a wild tangent very, very far away from the map shop.
Corey,
I try not to think about it and just enjoy it. Then again, you probably don't want to think about what goes into hot dogs, either.... ;-)
Peg
Peg--not only is haggis artery-clogging, it may also CONTAIN clogged arteries! I'd rather not dwell on that image if it's all the same to you! ;-)
Mr. Loftus--thanks for the heads-up concerning the festival. Lurkers such as myself appreciate you plugging any event featuring the appearance of HE in my general neighborhood.
Corey
Harlan,
I think most folks weren't surprised by a snappish response, it's part of your particular charm, although it probably comes off better in person than on the screen. It was nice of you to apologize anyway.
As for Mr. Guilderpost's comments...... well, you do have a reputation for being amazingly well-informed in an encyclopedic way that would put the best databases to shame. (Would that most of us had a memory so finely tuned). Maybe it's not much of a stretch to think Fitzroy would have been surprised about the guitar in the story. He did say "Perhaps Mr. Ellison had his reasons for conflating the two guitars or for changing the date".
As your reply points out, you did have a reason. I bet he'll learn something from this no matter what the tone.
Cheers
Peg
PS - it's still nice to see you again! Have a great day at Pink's, eat an artery-clogging dog for me. I'll be out and about eating artery-clogging haggis somewhere in the Scottish countryside.
To answer Gunther's question:
You can order Realms Of Fantasy (August 2001 issue)by writing to: Post Office Box 1623, Williamsport, PA 17703, USA. The telephone number is: 1-800-219-1187.
All best--
Susan
A P.S. FROM ELLISON TO "FITZROY GUILDERPOST":
There was no need for me to have been so smartass insulting. I apologize. Yours was a perfectly civil advisory, and I am ashamed of myself for speaking to you so snappishly. I truly do apologize. Thanks for the advisory.
With bowed head, Harlan.
Harlan responds to "Fitzroy Guilderpost":
Let me visit upon your tender sensibilities one of my deepest-rooted annoyances. Readers with such tunnel visioned, clogged artery, narrow passaged pecksniffery, that the joy and pleasure of a piece of creative effort--whether poem or short story or motion picture or sand-sculpture--is leached away by the "awesome discovery" of a presumed error in the creator's offering.
Now, if the typo that exists in the HEMISPHERES printing of the story (that a geosynchronous orbit is a mere 200 miles above the Equator, rather than the 22,300 miles I intended, thereby requiring everyone to have hinges on their chimneys so passing satellites don't whang into them) had been permitted to stand, and "Fitzroy" had called me on it, I would bow my head and cop to yes indeed, a gaffe. But . . .
In a story in which "Mr. Guilderpost" has no trouble accepting a mapmaker who has lived for possibly four thousand years, a tiny shop that is immense inside, living and apparently to some degree sentient lianas that can pluck maps from cubbyholes and fire them off toward an infinite horizon, the existence of Shangri-la and Camelot and Atlantis and the route to the center of the Earth and Pellucidar and Hi-Brasil and Valhalla and several dozen other mythical venues . . .
He cannot make the leap of imagination THAT I INTENDED to enjoy the magic of George Fender having completed a prototype of the prototype two years (or more) earlier, and somewhichway levered it into the hands of Les Paul. Why does "Mr. Guilderpost" presume I'm smart enough and punctilious enough and competent enough to get everything else correct in the story, down to the smallest street and alley in Chicago's Old Town, but I'm either too lazy or too inept or too dumb to know my guitar history?
Over the years, I've had a few others of this sort of metacarping. (I just created the word, "Fitz"--it's sort of a play on a word. I wouldn't want you to think I'd fucked-up yet again, stumbling over my own big flat size EEEE vernacular.)
In "Jeffty is Five" I made reference to movies and books and even Edgar Rice Burroughs novellas that had never been produced. A fairly complex skein of imaginary never-were-but-wouldn't-they-have-been-wonderful-if icons that were intended to provide a sense of verisimilitude (never realism, always verisimilitude; two different necessities, "Mr. Guilderpost"). And sure enough, there were half a dozen "Guilderpost"-manques that took me to task for mentioning all these things that simply were wrong, they didn't exist, they were gaffes that poisoned an otherwise wonderful story. Sound familiar, "Fitzroy"?
When I read "On the Slab" publicly for the first time, at a lecture in Manhattan, at NYU, another self-appointed Torquemada of Literary Worth--bearing in mind my mention that night, that then-fiction editor Robert Sheckley of OMNI had bought the story for early publication--wrote a letter to Sheck, saying I'd plagiarized the legend of Prometheus, but I'd gotten it all messed up by having my character's heart ripped out by a "carrion bird," when everyone knew the tale of chained Prometheus had his LIVER being ripped out by a VULTURE. (Which retelling is exactly what "On the Slab" is, of course, my Lovecraftian hommage done as a Prometheus trope. As understood by the many hundreds of people in that NYU audience, including Thomas Pynchon.) (Oh, and by the way, if you read "On the Slab" you'll find that though I refered to it once or twice as a "carrion bird'" which is what a vulture IS, I also called it a vulture. Not only was this buttplug a buttinski and a pecksniff, but he didn't listen too well, either.) Silly though this was, in every aspect, Sheckley responded to the letter with requests that I change heart to liver, and make broader reference to the Prometheus myth origins. I told him I'd pull the story and send back the ten grand before I did something that puerile.
But Bob wasn't mollified until I ran across a quote by Claude Levi-Strauss, from his 1958 essay, "The Structural Study of Myth'" as cited by William Irwin Thompson in the most brilliant book on the origins of myth I'd read in decades, THE TIME FALLING BODIES TAKE TO LIGHT. And it was this:
"It cannot be too strongly emphasized that all
available variants should be taken into account.
If Freudian comments on the Oedipus myth are
part of the Oedipus myth, then questions such as
whether Cushing's version of the Zuni origin myth
should be retained or discarded become irrelevant.
There is no one true version of which all the
others are but copies or distortions. Every
version belongs to the myth."
Now "Fitzroy Guilderpost" denies himself the ecstasy of a piece of phantasmagoric fiction, in which wonder is piled upon wonder, because he cannot make the imaginative step--not even a leap, mere a step--to smile at "what if?" and to batten on yet another small (admittedly in-joke) wonder, that there WAS, somehow, in some miraculous way, a 1947 Les Paul Broadcaster.
Yes, I know this is the phylum of piddling fanboy carping that writers in all genres have had to put up with, and very often I AM IN THE WRONG, not infrequently I HAVE SCREWED UP and need correcting. Which I attempt to do in as soon a reprint of the story as is possible.
But this ain't one of them.
I know you think you're clever "Fitz" honey; but this time you pulled against a faster gun. I'm old; I ain't senile.
Yr. pal, Harlan
The 38th annual Lake Oswego (Oregon) Festival of the Arts, scheduled for June 22-24, will feature displays relating to comic books (local publisher Dark Horse will be prominently featured, of course).
Most of the activity will take place in the Lakewood Center for the Arts at 368 South State Street.
A panel discussion on "The Art of Comics" will include Will Eisner, Paul Chadwick, Harlan Ellison, and Mike Richardson, at 3:00 and 7:00 on Saturday, June 23. Seating is very limited. Call (503) 635-3901. Tickets are $12 apiece.
(Note: I don't have anything official to do with the festival or the event -- I've never even been to the festival before, even though I work in Lake Oswego. I volunteered to be a docent just so I could hang out. Ellison is supposed to be at the exhibit at certain discreet times Saturday and Sunday when he's not speaking on the panel. Maybe he'll tell us all when.)
Alas, neither Murder One nor Forbidden Planet stock Realms of Fantasy (nor could they tell me who might), so I humbly return to goad a copy off of Mr. Ellison (if he, indeed, reads this).
For what it's worth though, Murder One has two hardcover copies of the illustrated "Repent, Harlequin..." (with coloured text and all) going for £13.99 or so.
I recently read Harlan Ellison's short story "Incognita, Inc.", and while I enjoyed it, I believe that it may contain a factual error. The story's narrator states that a "1947 Les Paul 'Broadcaster'" was sitting behind the display window of a guitar shop. This description is erroneous for two reasons:
(1) There is no such thing as a "Les Paul 'Broadcaster'". The Gibson Company makes the ‘Les Paul’ model electric guitar. *Fender* Corp. introduced the 'Broadcaster' electric guitar in 1950. Because of a legal dispute, Fender later changed the name of the guitar to ‘Telecaster'.
(2) Leo Fender completed the first 'Broadcaster' prototype in 1949, not 1947.
Perhaps Mr. Ellison had his reasons for conflating the two guitars or for changing the date, but to anyone who knows anything about electric guitars, the description seems like a bit of a gaffe. With this in mind, I thought that Mr. Ellison might like to change the description of the guitar in future versions of the story.
Harlan hisownself answers The Shade:
TROUBLEMAKERS is a new collection of older stories, some of which haven't been around for years, plus a total rewrite of one of my earliest fantasies, now going by the name "Send Not to Know for Whom the Lettuce Wilts." The book is the first under the Edgeworks Abbey colophon, published in conjunction with Byron Preiss's iBooks line. It will be a trade paperback, and it is aimed at Young Adults, which I've never done before, so this'll be an interesting experiment. The new introduction is called "That Kid's Gonna Wind Up in Jail" and it details what a troublemaker I've been all my life, and the integration of introduction with story-notes will highlight aspects of troublemaking behavior--curiosity, foolhardiness, lack of understanding of one's mortality, shoplifting, bad attitude, disrespectfulness--drawn from my own scurrilous childhood and adolescence. It will be out sometime in the early Autumn, I guess.
I'm sitting here. The ESSENTIAL ELLISON, 50-year retro edition, is on the counter in front of me. I got my first pb copy today. Frabjous day, calloo callay.
yr. pal, Harlan.
Deja vu time- a spectacular car crash due to drag racing brought back memories of two terrific Ellison tales -"Along the Scenic Route"(Deathbird Stories) and "No Game for Children"(Gentleman Junkie). Fortunately, the voyeurs with their video cameras weren't in the neighborhood where this happened-the idiot who got himself killed is already becoming a legend among kids. If anyone would like to read about it, go to honoluluadvertiser.com, click BACK ISSUES, then click the June 10th article "Weekend off to deadly beginning".
Susan (since you're in an answering mood), may I ask, what is TROUBLEMAKERS(2001)? (Not what ARE, because I know I'm one o' them). (Saw it listed in the "Books by" page of THE ESSENTIAL...50 Yr Retrospective). And is it gonna be published by Subterranean, Morpheus Intl, or some other company? --The Shade (a pale imitation of The Shadow, who knows all). (That's all -- it's back to work!)
I just gave Morpheus a call, and the guy said they've taken advance orders for roughly 20 percent of the 350 signed, limited edition copies of _The Essential Ellison_. (I of course added my name and charge card number to that list.)
The signing party at Morpheus is scheduled for the 26th, which is a few days after HE will be in Portland/Lake Oswego, but hey, I have other things he can sign while he's here. In case anyone's interested, the clothbound is priced at $34.95 and the paperback version at $24.95. The signed, limited copy will set you back a cool $150 plus about four bucks for shipping.
Thanks, Susan. I also called. It appears HERC members will get some kind of discount and that any signed books will ship after the signing on June 26th.
Susan,
Thanks for the skinny on ordering the book. I dearly wish I could attend the signing, but it's hard to justify a trip to California right after getting back from Chicago. I resisted the urge to send my sister over in my place--I bet you two are getting tired of meeting lawyers, no matter what the circumstances (g). I ordered the limited edition. The folks at Morpheus were professional and quick.
--Alex
To answer Charlie's question:
Re: THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON
Firstly, There's going to be a signed & numbered edition.
Secondly, if you can't make the signing on June 26th at Pink's, then you could pre-order a copy of the hc or tpb from Morpheus and ask to have it signed & personalized. You'll have to pay for shipping, but it's a way to have have HE sign it. The number for Galerie Morpheus is: 310-859-2557.
Hope that helps--Susan
To answer Charlie's question:
Re: THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON
Firstly, There's going to be a signed & numbered edition.
Secondly, if you can't make the signing on June 26th at Pink's, then you could pre-order a copy of the hc or tpb from Morpheus and ask to have it signed & personalized. You'll have to pay for shipping, but it's a way to have have HE sign it. The number for Galerie Morpheus is: 310-859-2557.
Hope that helps--Susan
To answer Charlie's question:
Re: THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON
Firstly, There's going to be a signed & numbered edition.
Secondly, if you can't make the signing on June 26th at Pink's, then you could pre-order a copy of the hc or tpb from Morpheus and ask to have it signed & personalized. You'll have to pay for shipping, but it's a way to have have HE sign it. The number for Galerie Morpheus is: 310-859-2557.
Hope that helps--Susan
BIG NEWS: HE is coming to the Portland area in less than two weeks!
Ellison will be part of a panel discussion on "The Art of Comics" with Will Eisner(!) -- check out a lengthy article about Eisner in the current issue of the New York Review of Books -- Paul Chadwick, and Mike Richardson!!!
The date is June 23, the place is Lakewood Center for the Arts, here in Lake Oswego, not ten blocks from where I sit typing this in my office. Tickets are $12 and there are two times available: 3:00 and 7:00. I'll let people know the phone number as soon as I've made sure I've got my own seat!
Both bamm and bn.com are showing the pb of Essential Ellison (50th) as available. Does anyone know if signed copies are going to be available through HERC or specialty shops?
Didn't Toole write The Neon Bible? At least he's listed as author, although I think it was cobbled together from some of his unfinished stuff after his death, following on the success of Confederacy of Dunces. I've never bought Bible, and couldn't quite manage to finish Dunces.
For anyone who likes reading about the art of writing, I recommend to you an article from today's "Bob Baker's Newsthinking" on a general ban on cliches. Here you go (link courtesy of Poynter.org, Jim Romenesko's Media News):
http://www.newsthinking.com/story.cfm?SID=70
cookie: Todd is surely speaking only of _Confederacy_ because, as far as I know, Toole never published anything else of substance. He in fact committed suicide long before his mother managed to get the novel published, with the help of Walker Percy. Then it won the Pulitzer Prize. Talk about rotten luck ... or timing ... or something....
I was amused to see Todd mention William Vollmann as one of his pet peeves. (I've never read Boyle, so I'm staying out of that one.) The first Vollmann I encountered was _The Rainbow Stories_, and it totally blew me away. Awesome writing, awesome plotting. But everything I've read since -- _Whores for Gloria_, _The Ice-Shirt_, _Butterfly Stories_ -- has been an increasing disappointment. (I didn't even finish _The Atlas_.) Vollmann writes incredibly beautiful and pointed sentences and paragraphs, and tackles subjects few others will brave, but there's so much flab in between. How did he ever get to the position where publishers will print every single word he puts before them? Does he get edited at all, these days?
Todd -
Your thoughts on Bloch, Hemingway and plain writing when it is called for are quite intriguing. I'll agree wholeheartedly, with the added thought that they (and Hammet) had a great talent for creating layers of meaning within that plain writing. Not to use a movie version as a definitive reading of a text, but if you look at "The Maltese Falcon," I think that iceberg under the water in Hammet's writing gets shown there.
Alex-
You are, of course, correct on "Chivalry." I will now go and write out on the blackboard of life: "I will check sources, names, etc" 100 times.
Oh, and I'm listening right now to a surprisingly good musical performance by Joe Morton (who some of you may remember as Dyson from "Terminator 2"), performing with Taj Mahal on the Blues Brothers 2000 soundtrack. Bad movie, but some nice gems of msuci in it.
With all this talk about Boyle et al., thought I'd chip in on 2 of the books I'm reading concurrently. Thraxas, by Martin Scott (which name I believe is an alias), which was the recent winner of the World Fantasy Award, novel category; and James Blish's Hugo winner, A Case of Conscience, which was recently reissued by Del Rey. I'm more than 1/2 way through each and am disturbed to think that Thraxas was the best novel per the World Fantasy committee. It's mediocre at best. Blish's novel is so rich in language and thought in comparison. As far as Jonathan Carroll, I recently read The Heidelberg Cylinder, which I enjoyed and found thought provoking.
Just a quick correction: The story of Neil Gaiman's that is referred to as "The Grail" is actually called "Chivalry", and can be found in both his first (limited) collection ANGELS & VISITATIONS and his second, the more widely published SMOKE AND MIRRORS.
In fact, I believe a reading of same can still be had at scifi.com's Seeing Ear Theatre.
As for e-life? Well, I've been neglecting mine of late, as RE-Life takes center stage. The Shapely Live-In Shrink is now in a state of permanent cohabitation with Yours Insincerely (envy me; pity her), and that's taken more time away from writing and 'netting than I care to think about.
I'm just waiting to win the lottery (and to hear from Tor Books) ...
David: Glad you're home safe from your travels. I probably feel sort of like you and HE about CP, but perhaps I'm actually somewhat enamored of her because she is such a loud-mouth tuffgirl saying stuff that doesn't jibe well with the mainstream feminists. I don't agree with her every utterance, but God! I love to hear her utter! She's not boring, that's fo' sho'!
Todd: I re-read CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES recently and reveled in it---especially now that I'm 'bout fifteen years older than the first time I read it (I understand far more of the references to classicism and Catholocism not to mention, life, now). Are there other writings by John Kennedy Toole that you are referring to? I ask, because I didn't perceive the writing in CONFEDERACY as strained at all---for effect or otherwise. Just curious....
Hey, Joe (what's that Boyle in your hand?)--off the top of my head, after A Lot of years since reading, I believe the quoted reference to sun and incessant drums to be from "The Snows of Kilimanjaro."
But there certainly have been a number of potential sources published before and since, down-on-his-luck Bwanas featured in the work of such heavy hitters as Bloch and, iinm, Kersh, among others (been a lot of years since I've read much Kersh, mostly in the ALFRED HITCHCOCK PRESENTS anthos of three decades ago and more). For that matter, I tend to think of Bloch as a kind of corresponding figure to Hemingway in horror fiction, as EH was in contemporary mimetic, and Dashiell Hammett, who actually got to work before either, was in crime fiction. Strip it down, write plainly when plain writing is called for. Heinlein served a similar function in sf, at least in the first decade or so of his career. In fact, Bloch was the only one not to become all too self-indulgent, all too often (Hammett got bogged down on TULIP, which wasn't as embarrassing as the posthumous EH nor Heinlein's I WILL FEAR NO EVIL, but is not what he's remembered for; Bloch's modesty may've contributed to the fact that he's the only one of the four without a widespread towering reputation, or at least a cult).
Time to curse the overwhelmed a/c and pack it in...
Actually, another writer whose work's apparently loved by most who know it, but disappointing to me in a way similar to that of Boyle's, is John Kennedy Toole, he of A CONFEDERACY OF DUNCES. I notice a similar straining for effect in both. While the elegant archness of Avram Davidson or Evelyn Waugh (two names not often linked!) can put me on the floor.
Well enough: I may just be tripping over the soft Boyles (but "Hector Quesadilla" from title to overstated everything, Joe, probably struck us both as typical TCB), but I don't care for the tone or the carriage of what I've read. Perhaps in the fullness of time. His work, actually, strikes me as often not too unlike yours, Harlan, or as John suggests Jonathan Carroll's (somewhat less), but simply not as good...way too cute, etc., as I mentioned before, and simply less imaginative. Another writer mining similar veins and doing so correctly would be William Kotzwinkle. But Boyle's fiction tends to grate on me, if not so much as my other usual example, William Vollman, does. De gustibus. And it was my mention of Boyle and Vollman that apparently nudged Joe into defending TCB, then Colleen chiming in on the affirmative and my reiteration of the negative that led Joe to note a "nerve struck" and thus slight confusion ensued.
Good to hear he's a good man and a good correspondent. Wouldn't be surprised to learn he's a good professor, as well. As with some others, Stephen King comes to mind, wish I liked his fiction (or, in King's case, more of his fiction--"Mrs. Todd's Shortcut" and some others are excellent) better. Due to our correspondence on a listserv, I'm growing personally fonder of one of the more overrated writers in commercial writing today...and am still waiting for this person to produce anything first-rate (among what I've seen), although improvement has been noted. Meanwhile, I'm still striving to produce my own journeyman work; so it goes.
Flew back into my hometown a half hour before midnight last night. Still groggy this evening.
Boston is lovelier than ever. Of course it's changed, and some beloved pubs and bookstores are gone, but most of the changes have been for the better (that is, if you don't make the mistake of trying to DRIVE in Boston!).
I bought a stack of books at one of my all-time favorite places, the Boston Book Annex at 906 Beacon Street, just west of Fenway Park, and prevailed on a very unwilling clerk to have them shipped back to Oregon.
Anyways ... real sorry I don't have the time and money now to zip down to Pink's for the celebration. Pleased to see that Mr. Ellison's assessment of Camille Paglia is not all that different from my own (and I went on the record just before he weighed in). Time to return to work and catch up on my sleep....
Ellison, Gaiman, and David doing a dog-and-pony at MIT on the 6th of October!! I'm there.
For people who love good music, may I suggest the late Frank Zappa's classical recording, The Yellow Shark. This man did some great composing to be sure.
Ray,
You know, my brain departed somewhere when I wrote that sentence. To forget relish - what was I thinking of, Lara Flynn Boyle in "Red Rock West" (a fine movie to rent on DVD)? And to write garlic instead of celery is a gaffe of no measure. To punish myself, I will have a paltry Wrigley Field hot dog, rather than a delicious kosher frank from Comiskey.
Oh, and I'm severely disappointed in the DVD of "Something Wicked This Way Comes." That movie screams for a director's or film scholar's commentary - for the great parts of the movie as well as for the parts that.....don't work so well (the mirror sequence at the end is so horribly dated now). However, it is great to be able to watch it in widescreen, especially for the library scene with Johnathon Pryce's wonderfully understated monologue.
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
Joseph,
One small correction to the recipe for the classic Chicago dawg. Instead of garlic salt, it should be celery salt.
Also, let us not forget the neon green pickle relish. Mmmmmmm!
Sheesh, just reading this board is becoming a ride on the cholesterol carousel.
If Carpe Diem is 'Seize the day', then the motto for those of us who only begin to really get crankin' right around 10 o'clock, we have Carpe Noctem. 'Seize the night'.
And for all you surrealists, Carpe Carpe. Seize the fish.
Enjoy,
L.
PS. You might also enjoy our household motto: Sic non praedatorae, praedae sunt. (Roughly translated, If you're not pack, you're prey.)
Peg -
The story "Grail" by Mr. Gaiman is a humorous little piece about a pensioner who finds the Grail in her weekly browse through the local re-sale shop. It's one of the uniquely British works that I refer to as "practical fantasy." She dusts it off and sets it on the fireplace, where it looks very nice. Then Galahad shows up looking for it.
As for hot dogs, there's a guy who sells bratwurst outside of the British Museum. He only has onions and mustard for condiments, but they're pretty damn good.
Even if you can only get a proper beef hot dog in Chicago, with garlic salt, tomato, chopped onions, mustard (besides, of course, Pinks). Damn, now I'm getting hungry....
Just a quick posting...
****Joseph - for curiosity and clarification, is there a difference between "The Grail" which Gaiman read and "Grail" which Harlan wrote?
****Justin - just a guess, Carpe noctem = seize the night???
****All - I am *completely* jealous of anyone and everyone who makes it to Pinks, not only because you'll get to see the lovely Susan (and that short guy she hangs around with) but I would go to extreme lengths to enjoy a real hot dog. Mind you, the sausages in the UK/Eurpoe are fab - and just as artery clogging - but it's apples and oranges. (nothing here truly recreates American food, I've got lots of examples.) Makes me long for a luscious slurpy greasy Tommy's chilicheeseburger or an In-and-Out cheeseburger animal style with grilled onions, not to mention those incredibly fresh, hot fries (which said UK cuisine cannot imitate although a good chip has it's own deserved place in the fast food pantheon).
As for AOL, I have always maintained the position that Bill Gates is the antichrist, AOL is just a collection of his demonic minions. *thhhpt*
Peg
Makes perfect sense to me, Lynn. I came to a similar realization not so long ago, that I was spilling most of my writing juices on correspondence. For me, spending so much time writing ultimately useless missives was just the path of least resistance. It was a way for me to scratch the writing itch, but also a way for me to distract myself from rolling up my sleeves and confronting the horror of trying to write a story. I claim to love writing stories, yet somehow manage to avoid doing so at all possible costs, because it hurts too damn much. But writing letters, or non-fiction of any kind, that's the easy stuff. You notice how much easier it flows from the fingertips? There's nothing to it.
I've since cut down on all that crap and have tried to focus more on fiction, but I must admit that I have yet to discover how my days as a mostly letter-writing slouch have done me any good at all. But I enjoyed your post, and I am certainly pleased that you were able to find so much value in your own experience. I instinctively like the idea that online reading and writing can act as a sort of training ground, providing knowledge and experience that can be put to good use in future endeavours. Though I don't feel it applies to me personally, I see where you're coming from. I hope the evolution goes well for you.
Duhr, what's "carpe noctem" mean?
J
p.s. You will, of course, have noticed that I'm spending this valuable writing time composing a Webderland post, and not working on anything even remotely resembling a story, outline, etc. I am fully aware of this, but I never said I was totally cured. Not only am I avoiding working on an outline I've been fiddling with, I'm also avoiding writing a paper that's due on Monday. The only possible conclusion that can be made is that I am a bad person.
How come proofreading and spellchecking in mortal terror of seeming hopelessly illiterate on a board dedicated to the art of a writer can't prevent me posting something so riddled with errors? How come the errors only leap off the screen seconds after I click "Send message"?
I'm going to hope you'll be kind enough to try and read what I meant and not what I typed.
Thanks,
-Jon who expects to find more errors in this post only after clicking the button.
This word from HE bothers me:
"We are now--after a year and three months--and the scouring of our bank balance from $133,000 in April 2000 to under three grand at the moment--finally getting into the heavy stuff. "
First, I'm pissed that any legal dealings with Enormocorp(s) could so tap an individual in so little time. Legal battles should not be wars of financial attrition. Methinks justice in this country is in deep yogurt.
Second, I'm pissed, disgusted, offended and terrified that somebody whose work has enriched so many lives (including mine for the more than twenty years via countless television shows and films watched and at least 40 books dog-eared from reading and re-reading on my shelves) is not completely financially secure on a Gatesian scale at the post adolescent age of 67. (Do I remember that correctly?) The man should be so rich he could go toe to toe in court with any corporation he on an equal financial footing and let blind justice settle the case. (Hopelessly naive I am. I know.)
I gather HE doesn't place much intrinsic value on money and I certainly don't define financial success as meaningful measure of the value of more than half a decade's work. That's not the point. The point is.... Somebody, anybody, who makes a meaningful contribution to the human condition should have no worries about covering the cost of a legal battle let alone the mortgage. This isn't some socialist tirade. It's just plain retching disgust at what I see as a terrifying disconnect between value delivered and value received. I've had one conversation with HE, he wouldn't know me from Adam and I don't expect him to give a rodent's hindquarters about me or my opinions but I'm *pissed off* that somebody I respect and value isn't getting (or keeping) a fraction of what he deserves. It's just wrong.
The problem I have with helping with this by contributing to KICK is that while I loathe piracy and the DMCA is completely FUBAR'd , Harlan is not, IMHO, not sufficiently steeped in Internet culture to understand the extent to which the "shitheads on the internet" are more aligned with him than he knows.
I'm not talking about the Napster/Warez/Scriptkiddie shitheads, I'm talking about the PGP, GNU, EFF, "Internet professional" shitheads who are doing/promulgating ideals that, based on his writings HE would likely support....*if* HE were better versed in 'net culture and history.
So, other than buying more books (which I do every chance I get) and joining HERC (which I will do shortly) is there anything we can do to support HE without aligning ourselves with KICK? I know supporting HE's fight for intellectual property rights but not wanting to contribute to KICK seem contradictory but think of it this way:
I want to spend a few hours every summer picking up litter on the National Seashore without joining Greenpeace. I want to help get pets spayed and neutered but I want nothing to do with PITA.
I support and respect the man. I support and believe in the core issue. I'm just not comfortable with the idea that anonymity on the net is wrong. I'm uncomfortable with the idea that ISPs should not be insulated from the disgusting behavior of their customers. (AOL is not an ISP. They are a content producer/publisher and should not enjoy the protections I am advocating but that's a longer discussion.)
Suggestions?
-Jon
Sometimes I'm always the last to know! Happy birthday, Harlan and Susan and thanks for adding some entertaining sparks to this board.
Regarding TC Boyle, how many people here have read Jonathan Carroll? I discovered his work a few years ago and am always impressed with his seemingly effortless style. Like Boyle, Carroll's stories are filled with humanity and a quirky sense of wonder.
Good luck on your battle with the internet bandits, Harlan! It's too bad more writers haven't joined the fight but I'm sure you're making people aware of a problem that many didn't even know existed.
And if the previous post makes no sense, again, keep in mind I'm posting when I should be sleeping. Read at your own risk.
L.
::written in the Valley, listening the distant harping of some asshole's car alarm which seems to fit nicely into the Tank Girl soundtrack playing in the background::
How do any of us maintain an non-e-life? Simple. The hardest battle I've waged recently was my daily commute which traverses the length of the San Fernando Valley on Vanowen (one block north of Victory), from Canoga Park to Burbank. Vanowen bisects this kingdom of mediocrity, smack dab between the 101 and 118. The biggest challenge I've faced is a long hallway in a cube city, with a neat little box at the end with my name on it. The most tiring ordeal I've faced is sitting through a quarterly update meeting, watching the faces of some middle America upper management for a fortune 500 company, on pre-recorded video, trying desperately to convince *me* (the lowly tech geek) that my efforts are somehow, vaguely and yet no less vitally, connected to the profits that this multi-BILLION dollar company rakes in every year.
I have a secret obsession you see. Using a certain piece of messenger software that is nothing more complex than instant email, I *write* with a friend in NY. Between crunching numbers and sifting through lines of code, I keep my nattering right brain occupied with prose, so my left brain can do its work uninterrupted. And I have been kicking myself for not having any visible "output", not dedicating exclusive time to my craft. After recently finishing Stephen King's _On Writing_, I did some quick calculations and realized something that made my pulse rate spike and my mouth fill with an unpleasant coppery taste.
My "output" is well into the three-thousand plus words a day.
That's my average word count. When I go back and look at the disreputable archive, the contents of one password protected zip file, I can look back over a year's worth of mental masturbation and *see* what must be a novel's worth of words. A big FAT novel's worth.
In the time I've spent in this little cyber oubliette, I have been honing dialogue, chiselling out character motivations, divining Imperial intrigue on a galactic scale, and searching for the most precise method of describing someone tying a hogtie. I can only come to one conclusion. None of this time spent online, reading and writing, has been a waste of my time. Maybe this W*R*I*T*E*R has come to an understanding with herself.
Time to start pushing the personal envelope.
It is as if the language itself has become the water, at first a trickle, now threatening a deluge, altering the rivercourse that is me. So, I make no apologies for lack of brevity and bid you good fortune and talented legal representation. It does a mind good to know you still lurk. Gonna be at Pink's if I have to walk.
Carpe Noctem,
Lynn
Harlan - Thanks for the clarification on your comments about T.C. Boyle. I looked at your your original post and tried desperately to think of what I could have said that would be considered insulting to Boyle. We're definitely on the same page when it comes to his writing, especially since he's written the funniest/most tragic novel on cereal ever. Oh, and you are completely correct on Harper Community College. Edit, edit, edit...
Is you comment about the "the sun and those dammed drums that never shut up" a reference to something? I could swear it sounds familiar.
You'll be happy to know that, in the film that I am in pre-production on, I will of course not take any such thing as a possessory credit. I'm with Kevin Smith on this one: it demeans the work of everyone who was worked their asses to the bone on a film, it smacks far too much of the "Auteur" theory of directing, and (in case the movie fails) you can't blame anyone else. A movie is such a freaking collaboratory effort that it would be indescribably rude for me (or any producer/director) to take such a credit.
Let's just say I'm a mite jealous of you having already read American Gods and leave it at that, though I did have the pleasure last October of hearing Mr. Gaiman read a chapter on the Last Angel Tour. Actually, I'd love to hear a Seeing Ear Theatre of another piece he read, "The Grail." Wonderfully funny story.
Haven't read any Paglia, so can't comment there. My tastes run more towards Susie Bright, anyway (who, by the way, was a consultant and showed up in the terrific movie "Bound").
In quick response to Harlan's last posting:
"...been unable to sleep at night, roaming the house till three-ish...only to lie awake till I drop off, which leaves me five or six hours later--somnambulistic for most of the day."
That is but a sample space of my typical day. Practically a life-style with me.
I regretted missing your Outer Limits schtick in Beverly Hills a couple of months ago (a Monday makes anything like that almost impossible for me), but I'm gonna take a serious shot at Pink's on the 26th. It's MY birthday too, so I deserve it.
Actually, I was surprised at the levity about Ms. Paglia. To me she is a horrible woman, but I do like your comments on the subject, Harlan.
I made the enquiry because most mainstream feminists hate CP to no end. And anyone who loves Rush Limbaugh cannot be trusted. but, to each his own.
This AOL thing is eating at me. Corporate oligarchy must be fed to the 4 winds. We are with ya man.
I hope this AOL thing works out for ya, Harlan. I gave almost two years to those lying scuttlefish. The best thing I ever did at that company was get tossed out the door--bouncing like a skip rock on the hoods of the BMWs lined up in the parking lot before finally smacking to a bloody halt against the AMERICA ONLINE, INC. sign--for being a "troublemaker," without giving them the satisfaction of actually *firing* me. If you get the opportunity to keep us up to date on this whole thing from time to time, I have a keen personal interest in hearing about it when they finally break and start licking your boots like a bunch of shivering newborn kittens.
I'd like to think that fighting a battle against a soulless evil empire (*cough* AOL *cough*) would be a very satisfying, glamourous and sexy affair. That's what I'd like to think, but I suppose the reality would have to be that it's just an infuriating pain in the ass, wouldn't it? I can watch a movie, A BRIDGE TOO FAR for example, and say, "Gee whilikers, lookit how neat all those parachutes look flying through the big sky," but I somehow doubt that parachuting onto European soil in '45 was much fun if you actually had to do it yourself.
Anyway, the point is- We're with you Harlan. Pulverize 'em!
J
P.S.
Something gnawed at the back of my Perception Linkage after I posted the preceding. My comments re T.C. Boyle were, of course, intended for Todd, who was the one who said he didn't much care for Tom's stories, as opposed to the rest of you who, seemingly and erroneously, I was speaking. It's the sun, and those damned drums that never shut up.
Yrs. in chagrin, Harlan
Saturday morning Harlan here:
Spent seven hours (plus 2 in travel back and forth to/from the downtown Electropolislike offices of AOL's mega-lawyers, Latham & Watkins) in deposition, Thursday last, the 7th of June. We are now--after a year and three months--and the scouring of our bank balance from $133,000 in April 2000 to under three grand at the moment--finally getting into the heavy stuff. Facing three questioners--two for AOL, one for RemarQ/Critical Path--I was transcribed and videotaped all day. Haven't yet recovered from the exhaustion, apparently: been unable to sleep at night, roaming the house till three-ish, then falling like a stunned ox into bed beside Susan, only to lie awake till I drop off, which leaves me five or six hours later--'way past my usual rising time--somnambulistic for most of the day. No amount of settlement money can possibly return to me, at age 67, the lost year in which two possible books might have been written. But...
I got myself into this thing, and I'm on board for the full ride. I WILL alter the face of this wild wild west technology!!! (And I think, after seven hours in front of his questions, and the camera, that AOL's counsel now understands that I ain't in this for the money.)
But, all that aside, I dropped in merely to answer some of the posts. V E R Y briefly.
Sean Inglis: you asked about a short story, and you gave a precis of the plot. You thought it might be a story of mine. I think not. It sounds not at all familiar. Sorry.
Everyone: please do come to the book signing for the new expanded 50-year retrospective ESSENTIAL ELLISON at Pink's Hot Dog stand in Los Angeles on the 26th of this month. Yes, it's the same Pink's I lauded in "Prince Myshkin, and Hold the Relish." I'll do my cosmically-famous lightningfast reading of the story, celebrities will abound, and you would have to travel by wormhole to the Coalsack Nebula to get a variety and quality of wienie or burger as Olympian as that available at Pink's. I am, in fact, RRRRRREEEEEALLLYYYY looking forward to this!!!!
So, if you are within light-years, and can swing it, by all means come and say hi to Susan and yr. pal, who will be cheerily clogging every available artery with the sanctified franks.
Joe Finn: I don't want to say more than this, but I don't think much of the new WGAw contract, the new Minimum Basic Agreement, or MBA, with the Producers. Mostly, it dotes on money, and you know how low on my totem pole THAT commodity resides. Very little, if anything, was done about the deeply entrenched, odious directorial "possessory credit" or the larger questions and problems and inequities of Creative Rights, which is where my heart lies. I served twice on the Board of Directors of the WGAw, and broke my ass trying to get the Guild to place that concern in the forefront of its contract negotiations. To little avail. Now, twenty years later, the same money-grubbing shallowness of the mass of commerical writers (aided and abetted by a generation of novices and parvenus who have no idea of what is required for tough labor bargaining or the enormous value of a strike) seems again to have swamped any "lesser" trivialities, such as parity of respect for writers with the ego-drunk power of directors. To my private shame, for the first time in almost 40 years in the movie/tv game, and my dedication to the Guild . . . I didn't even vote.
But, it passed. Everyone is slaphappy happy, so fuck me Jack. I will stay silent on the subject apart from this sole naked revelation of my broken heart. (Please flense that last of its pathetic bathos. Hear it merely as a crippled animal's wail.)
But, Joe, though you haven't "struck a nerve" with your query anent T.C. Boyle--you are absolutely entitled to your opinion--Tom Boyle is not only one of my favorite writers, but we correspond from time to time, usually at random, complimenting each other on a particular new piece we've read. Tom very much liked "Incognita, Inc." and I went so far as to recommend a spectacular story he had in PLAYBOY last year to the editors of THE BEST AMERICAN SHORT STORIES. I, for whatever my opinion is worth, even here in this rarefied company, think he is the cat's meow. I'm nuts about virtually everything he writes. I admire his story-sense, his elegance, and his devotion to truth and clarity. He is, I believe, one of the preeminent American writers currently working.
And I think you meant HarPer College, not HarOer. But, as Dennis Miller says, "That's just my opinion. I could be wrong."
Lynn: I've read Neil Gaiman's AMERICAN GODS. It's merely terrific. Gave Neil a blurb that apparently missed the hardcover jacket deadline, but Neil tells me it'll be on the pb. (On October 6th, for those of you in the Boston area, Neil, Peter David and I will be onstage at MIT, doing our tripartite dog'n'pony show. More on this later, of course.) What pleasures me greatly, is that several reviewers have compared the book favorably to my DEATHBIRD STORIES, to which Neil makes reference in the novel. I urge you not to miss this one.
Frank Church: No, I don't even vaguely "hate" Camille Paglia, no matter how wrongheaded and (transparently) rabid (as a promotional device) she may seem from time to time. I find her to be a fascinating contemporary critic, often dead on target, often led astray by her own frequently contradictory and frequently muddled agendas. But clearly a brilliant woman, a serious thinker (who may, like so many of us, occasionally be seduced into idiot or concretized positions by fame or the need not to be ridiculed), and--without question--a person of enormous courage.
This may or may not be "on point" about Ms. Paglia--whose activities I've monitored closely for many years--but I'm reminded of a remark made by Philip Jose Farmer about the late John W. Campbell, Jr. when troubled by a series of John's editorials and public pronouncements about the "manifest destiny" of the human race over potential alien life-forms we might encounter. The parallels to contemporary society at the time, and its mores, was clear in Phil's comment that, "John W. Campbell deploys a ferocious intellect in service of the bigotries of an Alabama redneck."
I may be speaking--not in terms of racism, of course--about Camille Paglia. Fame does odd things even to the cleverest theoreticians. It bends and hobbles us; we operate unknowingly to its clutch and power. We speak too ferociously, we posture and preen; and we wind up teetering for intellectual credibility on peaks that alarm and shame us. No, Mr. Church, I don't even dislike Ms. Paglia. In a limited scope of her philosophies, I even admire her. But whatever MY predilections (and I perceive, as you wished us all to perceive by your comments, that you were kidding, being puckish), I hope everyone understands that NO censorship of one's self, on ANY person or topic or viewpoint should be self-censored by way of concern that Ellison might frown. It's your chat-room, gang, not mine. I read, I lurk, I see and observe; and occasionally go among my people disguised in mufti, may Allah be praised. But cool and silent as the khamsin in the desert.
Other than the above, not so damned brief as I intended (migawd, how do ANY of you support a non-e.life?), further deponent sayeth note.
Yr. pal, Harlan
I have stumbled upon a bulletin board full to the brim with Harlan Ellison lookalikes. Good to see intelligence and style on the noxious web. Cheers.
Should be no problem mentioning Ms. Paglia here if one identifies oneself as "the Honorable Opposition." I'm a good old-fashioned (though relatively youthful) liberal, myself.
Paglia's a lot of fun if you merely regard her as a more rarified form of entertainer, particularly with regard to anything written after her minor intellectual masterpiece, _Secksual [pardon the spelling -- the "ecks" key on this very public computer seems to be out of commission] Personae_, which I think everyone should read at the very least for the play of ideas and terrific prose style. Since that book, the cult of personality seems to have gone to her head, and she's gotten progressively more wacky in not so good a way.
Frank, just wondering if you remember the Senator Church who's your namesake, or at least that of your persona here. Camille Paglia, who lives in my city, Philly, is these days spending some time griping about THE SOPRANOS very PC-ly, as Bill Maher whines very PC-ly every night about his various hobbyhorses (women are just like he decided/was taught they were in Sunday School when he was ten!, and the like). As a (grand)son of Milan, despite my uber-WASP moniker, I must admit I'm more embarrassed than cheered by the various anti-SOPRANOS backlash of late, but che vita (and, anyway, we all know Milanese aren't Real Italians). And, what, exactly, did you want to say about Eric "Jello Biafra" Boucher, survivor (along with codefendant H.R. Giger and the good folk at Mordam Records, iirc) of injudicious prosecution for the poster in FRANKENCHRIST, neither the best nor worst of the fine albums of the Dead Kennedys, providers of perhaps the catchiest politically left-libertarian punk rock out of San Francisco in the '80s? Pat Robertson spent some time on at least one 700 CLUB a decade ago lying baldfacedly about them, such a surprise, and no doubt was handsomely rewarded with monetary pledges for his exposure for this cancer on the heart of the Republic.
Joseph, I can second your recommendation of the elder Gaiman play...among many of the others still available on Skiffy Dot Com. I miss the older (mostly 1940s-50s) radio drama (including various episodes of Wyllis Cooper's QUIET PLEASE, about one episode of which HE has written as a turning point in his imaginative life) and the readings they've dropped from SET, though.
I don't think you should mention the name Camille Paglia around these parts. I am sure Harlan hates her to no end. Harlan is a good liberal through and through. But I do miss his wit on Politically Incorrect.
Harlan, does the name Jello Biafra ring a bell?
The movie, "A Boy and his Dog" is a very interesting movie detailing a post apocalyptic era. It shows a very intreguing relationship between a boy struggling to survive in the world and his furry little friend who can communicate telepathically. It represents a sort of altered reality. Some of the worst people are all running around in utter chaos in a sort of anarchy, While people in the down under world live in complete order yet it is full of fake people who do not know how to live in freedom. Great movie! Great sarcasm
I'm checking in from an iMac at the Science Center on the campus of Harvard. Lotsa things have changed here in Boston and Cambridge since I left town in '87, but plenty that is mighty fine remains. The local skiffy-gaming outlet is called Pandemonium, and the oddball with the coke-bottle lens spectacles named "Spike" still works there for the owners, years after his own store (where I bought a LOT of Ellison stuff over the years) closed down.
I'll fly back home to the Left Coast in two more days.
cookie -- I recognized your name immediately. Yes, indeed, I played "the Honorable Opposition" on the Camille Paglia list for a number of years ... those were the days. (I wonder if SHE might endorse my book...?) Be back with youse guys on a more regular basis next week!
I'm checking in from an iMac at the Science Center on the campus of Harvard. Lotsa things have changed here in Boston and Cambridge since I left town in '87, but plenty that is mighty fine remains. The local skiffy-gaming outlet is called Pandemonium, and the oddball with the coke-bottle lens spectacles named "Spike" still works there for the owners, years after his own store (where I bought a LOT of Ellison stuff over the years) closed down.
I'll fly back home to the Left Coast in two more days.
cookie -- I recognized your name immediately. Yes, indeed, I played "the Honorable Opposition" on the Camille Paglia list for a number of years ... those were the days. (I wonder if SHE might endorse my book...?) Be back with youse guys on a more regular basis next week!
AAAAGGGHHHH!
Sorry about that double post, folks.
Tod -
Thanks for letting me know about NPR & "Hector" - I'll be sure to keep an ear out.
I am very happy to see that Gaiman has a new piece up on Seeing Ear Theatre (with Bebe Neuwirth, a horribly underappreciated actress). Everyone should take a look through the archives there and look for the Gaiman piece "Murder Mystery," with Brian Dennehy? I can highly recommend that to everyone, as Dennehy is flipping fantastic. Scoot on over to SciFi.com, one and all:
http://www.scifi.com/set/
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
Tod -
Thanks for letting me know about NPR & "Hector" - I'll be sure to keep an ear out.
I am very happy to see that Gaiman has a new piece up on Seeing Ear Theatre (with Bebe Neuwirth, a horribly underappreciated actress). Everyone should take a look through the archives there and look for the Gaiman piece "Murder Mystery," with Brian Dennehy? I can highly recommend that to everyone, as Dennehy is flipping fantastic. Scoot on over to SciFi.com, one and all:
http://www.scifi.com/set/
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
Well, then, Joseph...you might want to keep an ear out for the NPR series SELECTED SHORTS, one episode of which includes a reading of "The Hector Quesadilla Story." (I've listening to SS right now, and a Ruth Rendell story is giving way to Heinlein's "The Green Hills of Earth.") Gaiman fans, for that matter, might want to listen to his current audio drama on Skiffy Dot Com. Colleen--may your luck in evading vengeful pachyderms continue (hmmm...would I prefer a rampaging elephant on Bishop St or on Keeaumoku...)(TheBus-riders bitterness, I suspect)
Neil Gaiman's American Gods
Chapter One - due out June 19, 2001
http://www.americangods.com/excerpt.html
[I apologize if this is a double post. I seem to recall seeing this posted before and I can't remember if this is the board where I read about it first. I only knew one thing for certain. Somebody on this board would appreciate it.]
L.
Well, I see a struck a nerve on T.C. Boyle. Personally, a favorite story of mine is Boyle's "The Hector Quesadilla Story," a funny and touching story about a designated hitter in the last legs of his career. Possibly one of the best stories about baseball ever written (hell, about sports period).
Seeing that story in sports fiction anthologies is almost as satisfying as seeing Mike Royko's column about receiving Keith Hernandez's book about the 1986 Mets season in the mail (some fool wanted Royko, a life-long Cubs fan, to review it) in the "Best Sports Writing of the Century" anthology.
Joseph, I've read and enjoyed T.C. Boyle's stories, though not within the past 2 years(sigh...too many books, not enought time),and really enjoyed his scurrilous sense of humor and irony.
One of his stories particularily resonated with me-"Big Game" in the Without a Hero collection-not long after reading this story of an elephant killing some tacky wanna-be hunters, an African elephant named Tyke went on a rampage & escaped from a circus here in Honolulu, killing and wounding a couple of people- I nearly walked into the path of that elephant on Ward Ave.; a last minute decision kept me from making that walk. Unfortunately the police had to kill poor Tyke- I thought how similar Tyke & Bessie Bee's(Boyle's elephant) situations were-in my mind the story & incident are forever linked.
Well, Joseph, as you may've gathered, I have read Boyle's work, and do Not like what I've read (starting with "Descent of Man," which I first read in Terry Carr's YEAR'S FINEST FANTASY in 1978...the Boyle wasn't quite as bad as Stephen King's "The Cat from Hell," but damned close). Way too precious, self-importantly cute, flashy while shallow, what I've read. But if you're a fan, have you picked up his recent sf novel (not marketed as an sf, but, of course, as a "futuristic" novel)? But do watch CONJUNCTIONS, which does publish him at least as frequently as PLAYBOY and similar markets. He's certainly made his commercial bones.
Just out of curiousity, anyone here a reader (like myself) of T. Coraghessan Boyle? I know he goes by T.C. Boyle these days, but I just like writing Coraghessan for some reason. Fine writer, in my opinion, who makes me wish I lived out in Santa Barbera so I could take a class from him.
Come to think of it, I saw him read in the same theater (at Haroer Community College) that I saw Mr. Ellison.
Eh. "The Dead Boy at Your Window." That was going to bother me all night if I didn't correct myself.
I wonder if the ever-irregular CENTURY will publish again, after the ridiculously as well as tragically premature death of assistant editor Jenna Felice (a young woman who'd already had enough bad luck, the obits made clear). Another magazine made irregular in part from its ed/pub's bad run of luck, CEMETERY DANCE, is on its way back out to subscribers soon...
Either CD or WEIRD TALES might strike one as the best current newsstand horror magazine, given the relatively little competition along with their virtues...
About the only other kind of newsstand (intentional) fiction magazines we see in bulk in the US, at least, are the erotic and "true confession" ones...and I'm not sure, with the folding of PARAMOUR, if any of those are actually worth recommending...
Colleen--Aloha nui loa, btw. As a former editor, youngest and shortest-termed ever, of HAWAI'I REVIEW (1983), I can definitely recommend MANO'A. HR probably isn't too shabby, either, most years, but not quite up in the league with CONJUNCTIONS, as you suggest, which publishes fat issues filled with the work of good writers and also T.C. Boyle and William Vollman. ONTARIO REVIEW has the highest average quality of what I read among the eclectic fiction magazines, but between it and F&SF maybe I'm just prejudiced by geography, leaning toward those produced in neighboring New Jersey. CONJUNCTIONS, ONTARIO REVIEW, and MISSOURI REVIEW particularly have been fantastic-fiction friendly, even given the long history of fantasy in academically-sponsored little magazines...Robley Wilson's tenure at NORTH AMERICAN REVIEW not only regularly published good vignettes but also Bruce Rogers's Stoker-winning "The Dead Boy at the Window."
THE SF HALL OF FAME was, in the '70s, all over the place, and it seems odd how obscure it's become...of course, as the result, largely, of a poll of sf writers in the mid-latter '60s, it was heavily weighted toward stories from the writers' golden age (which tended to fall into the 1940s, as the Golden Age is indeed 13), and it includes a Lot of good 1940s sf, and less even better 1950s sf, and stops itself by intention before getting up to the mid-'60s when the SFWA started handing out Nebulae. But, frankly, Damon Knight's "The Country of the Kind" and Fritz Leiber's "Coming Attraction" are a bit beyond, say, Bradbury's "Mars is Heaven!"...as much fun as that story is (and "The Sound of Thunder" should've beaten "Mars" for Bradbury, much as Arthur Clarke's "The Star" should've beaten the gimmick story "The Nine Billion Names of God").
I shall be seeking the Dann collection; thanks for the heads-up. I think Dann will be participating in a Skiffy Dot Com chat on Oz sf soon.
Hi,
Can someone identify a story from this brief synopsis ? I think it may be HE.
Our protagonist wakes to fnid hes standing, like thousands of others, in a cubicle wearing red rubber spectacles.
Hes taken on a short trip and introduced to some Alice-in-Wonderlandesque characters before being put back to sleep (or reality).
His host puts him under with a quote something like "Purpose ? What could you possibly know about purpose ?"
I had this in a paperback anthology somewhere and I'd like to read it again.
Thanks
Sean
I'll throw in my 2 pennies on two recent short story collections: Jack Dann has a new collection (only available in Australia-rec'd my copy via the Australian on-line Book Shop)It contains, amongst others, Da Vinci Rising (Nebula Winner), Bad Medicine, A Quiet Revolution For Death. It's entitled Jubilee and worth checking out. The other collection is Kristine K. Rusch's Stories For An Enchanted Afternoon, which is out in the US by Golden Gryphon Press. I believe this is her first collection of stories. GGP does a very nice production job on their books.
As an afterthought, if anyone is interested, my new website went up last night.
http://www.digitalcarrion.com
[Sanitized of any bad crow jokes, for your protection.]
L.
As to Mr. Ellison's signing, more info:
http://www.morpheusart.com/main.htm (the previously referenced link)
Pink's Hotdog Stand
709 North La Brea Ave.
Los Angeles, CA 90038
http://www.lainsider.com/auto_docs/dining/14111.html
L.
Mr. Ellison,
If I may be so bold, I was curious to know what you thought of the recent WGA contract.
Pink's Hot Dogs? Pardon, but isn't that the setting of "Prince Mishkin and Pass the Relish"?
Anyhoo, for the completists among us, I notice a very cool looking book in this months' issue of "Previews" (the monthly comic buying guide), entitled "Blast Off!: Rockets, Rayguns, Robots, and Rarities From The Golden Age of Space Toys." Looks to be a very interesting look at the subject, with an introduction by our own Mr. Ellison. Can't wait.
Hello all,
I found "The Science Fiction Century", edited by David G. Hartwell to be a good collection of 46 short stories, including one about a Harlequin from some guy called Ellison.(smile)
Speaking of Mr Ellison, apparently he will be signing copies of his expanded Essential Ellison at Pink's Hot Dogs in Los Angeles on June 26th from 7-9pm. Call 310-859-2557 for further details! This according to the Morpheus Art web site.
Kerry
Xanadu- Thanks for the recommendation. THE SCIENCE FICTION HALL OF FAME sounds delicious. As soon as I find a copy I'll give it a thorough inspection.
J
Happy Birthday Susan! May you have many more!
Some other good short story magazines are New American Writing and Conjunctions. As for short story collections, all of H.E. & Ray Bradbury, Jump by Nadine Gordimer, Lantern Slides by Edna O'Brien, The Things They Carried by Tim O'Brien, Collected Ghost Stories of M.R. James, and Borges/Marquez/Ocampo. The Years Best Anthologies edited by Dozois & Datlow are always worth checking out. For Dan Simmons fans, Prayers to Broken Stones is worth checking out, since many of the stories in the collection were later expanded into novels(speaking of which, his novel Phases of Gravity is back in print). Merely suggestions from a confirmed short-story addict.
Justin,
I am offended - terribly, righteously, and... aaaaahhhh, fuggetaboutit...
In science fiction there is one collection that I feel is absolutely vital to have on the shelf - it selects from an earlier age, but if you are at all fond of Golden Age SF this is all that, the bag of chips, the bucket of popcorn, the soda, the $3.00 row of candy and the faux-velvet seat cover.
It is...(drum roll, please)...
The Science Fiction Hall of Fame (The Greatest Science Fiction Stories Of All Time), Robert Silverberg, Ed.
I have a paperback version that I think I got near it's original publication in '70 - probably mid seventies - that I have dog-eared so badly it's on it's third round of masking tape repair. It is completely and utterly perfect - every single story is a gem.
Volumes IIa and b left me somewhat colder, but the first will knock your socks off.
Out of SF, I'm kinda a sucker for the Norton Anthologies - they are a fair sampling of the larger genre...
Belated B-day greetings to the man, and hearty wishes to his lovely bride...
Mr. Ellison - thanks for the information. For now, I'll try to hunt down the Realms of Fantasy version, and should I fail at that, I'll write to HERC. Please don't bother digging it up in the meantime.
Everyone else who helped - thank you, too. I'll try Murder One, since I've actually been there (and, in fact, completely forgot about it although it has an excellent selection of books and magazines).
Susan,
Grand felicitations on your upcoming birthday. May the coming year be as sweet as honey and as fulfilling as....erm...whatever you find fulfilling. Sue me, it's 1:30 AM here.
Gunther,
Alex beat me to the punch on "Realms of Fantasy" having it's website (along with the Sci-Fi Channel magazine) at www.scifi.now. However, I saved you the time of searching their oddly un-navigable (is that a word?) site:
"If you need assistance regarding a current, renewal, new or gift subscription to
SciFi Magazine or Realms of Fantasy, please call our customer service
department at 800-219-1187"
Hope that helps.
TODD: Sovereign DID set up a website, sorta--at SciFiNow.com.
(I should know; I have the payment checks to prove it).
Haven't read it much at all since Paul T. Riddell left his Web Editor post, but a quick survey shows that they still post Realms of Fantasy stories up there from time to time (the most recent being "Fortitude" by Andy Duncan) ...
Oh; wait.
That story is from the December 2000 issue. Looks like the site has indeed gone to crap and all-media content. Ah, well ...
Well, I was gonna wait until the 24th to post my wishes but since everybody's beating me to the punch, may I join the friendly crew over here in wishing you a Happy Birthday, Susan. I could say something about Harlan being one heckuva lucky guy in having such a trusting, loving, faithful and strong partner-in-crime, guardian angel, better half, whathaveya as a perpetual travelling companion. I could say that you are Romana to his Dr. Who (Or even Ace). But I won't. A nice, simple happy birthday will do.
While I take a break and wrench my head from my notebook preparing for a calculus final, and popping lots of Advil while I'm at it, I would, indeed, like to extend my natal felicitations to Susan. I haven't had the pleasure of any online chat with you but it's B-Day for me too this month, so I guess that means the same stars assure both our destinies. Ain't we the lucky the ones?
Just saw Shrek. It's a great film. Same people who did Antz, which I also liked.
Happy B-Day, Susan
You know, I can't recall ever having read a short fiction magazine. I suppose I may have really missed out on something, but I always found it more satisfying and engaging to sink into a good novel than into a collection of short fiction, for whatever reason. Ellison's work is the notable exception, of course.
I never really stopped to think about this, but it occurs to me now that if Ellison is my favorite writer by so many leaps and bounds, and he tends to write a lot of short fiction, why did I never give the format more of a chance? I have no idea. Aside from the countless barking, snarling volumes I keep chained down and sedated in the substantial Ellison section of my personal library, I think the only other short fiction compilation I own is PERSISTANCE OF VISION- a collection of short stories from the incomparable John Varley.
So- yeah, I may have missed out. If anyone is horribly offended by all this, feel free to contribute to the cause by listing the short story compilations you feel life is absolutely incapable of being complete without, and I'll dutifully give as many of them a spin as I have the time for.
The only magazine I ever read and enjoyed on a regular basis that might even remotely qualify as being a "short story" magazine is HEAVY METAL, though I haven't actually picked up an issue in years. Note- I always thought that all works of fiction, non-fiction, comics, movies, plays, etc. could always qualify as "stories," but Unky Harlan rapped my pinkies over that one once when I wrongly referred to something as a "story" that apparently wasn't really a "story," and the trauma of the experience has left me a broken man incapable of making these distinctions appropriately, and without fear of a retaliatory strike. I just wanted to add that in, parenthetically, for the sake of everyone here who is appalled by my suggestion that HEAVY METAL has ever published "short stories." According to my own private and personal little Justin definition of what a "story" is, then yes they have. Don't fight me on this one- your puny Earth logic will never punch through the defenses of my slaphappy little universe.
So I picked up the new SUPERMAN: THE MOVIE DVD. Watched the sun of a gun last night, and boy did it ever bring back some old memories. I wasn't even born when SUPERMAN first hit theaters, but fortunately I had it around for constant viewing on VHS. I used to love that movie, but for whatever reason I hadn't sat down and watched it in *years*.
What a wonderful film. I've never seen it looking as good as it does in widescreen, on the new DVD. I recommend it to everyone who liked the movie the first time around. I wish I could have seen SUPERMAN with a younger pair of eyes, though- for the first time I did find myself thinking that parts of the movie were just downright goofy, but presumably that's the price you pay when you turn into a bitter, vitriolic old man like me.
See you around.
J
While I take a break and wrench my head from my notebook preparing for a calculus final, and popping lots of Advil while I'm at it, I would, indeed, like to extend my natal felicitations to Susan. I haven't had the pleasure of any online chat with you but it's B-Day for me too this month, so I guess that means the same stars assure both our destinies. Ain't we the lucky the ones?
Just saw Shrek. It's a great film. Same people who did Antz, which I also liked.
Happy B-Day, Susan
Unfortunately, Sovereign Media has never set up a website for REALMS or their other magazines, as far as I know. Closest I've found in a Google search is Yahoo's subscription-sales page. The UK fantastic-fiction emporea or direct mail to Sovereign in Herndon, Virginia may be the best bets.
As for my favorite fiction magazines, current: FANTASY & SCIENCE FICTION, ELLERY QUEEN'S MYSTERY MAGAZINE, ONTARIO REVIEW. Best free ones (all online): BLUE MURDER (www.bluemurder.com), SCIFICTION at Skiffy Dot Com, and ZOETROPE ALL-STORY ONLINE. Best-looking newsstand f.m.: with the death of SF AGE and AMAZING, ZOETROPE ALL-STORY and REALMS OF FANTASY are the handsomest I see, though only ZOETROPE has consistently good covers. Most missed fiction magazines since I began reading them in the late '70s: FANTASTIC as edited by Ted White, WHISPERS, CRANK!
And a happy birthday to you as well, Ms. Ellison.
Gunthar -
I would think that "MurderOne" books in Charing Cross, London might take Realms of Fantasy since they have a separate comprehensive sf/fantasy section - Edgeworks even. I would think that a fairly certain bet would be Andromeda Books in Birmingham (UK's longest running sf/fantasy bookshop), phone number: 0121 643 1999. Indeed, if you phone up Andromeda, ask how they were responsible for introducing Harlan to Susan.
Gunther:
Susan tells me you're a HERC member. We have a very few extra copies of the HEMISPHERES issue with "Incognita, Inc." in it, and if you want one--as opposed to waiting a week or so till the REALMS of FANTASY is available (though the artwork for the story in REALMS is far superior to that in the HEMISPHERES layout, and well worth the price of admission alone)--we can charge you for the overseas postage and a couple of bucks more for the job of digging it out, packing it up, etcetera...and you'll have what you want. Or you can order the REALMS issue directly from Sovereign Media. I'm sure they have a website, with simple ordering instructions. So. If you want us to do the labor, let us know, and send us your complete mailing address, or advise us that you'll get the REALMS version on your own. Happy to be of service, either way.
THE HARLAN ELLISON WE-LIVE-TO-SERVE POSTAL, CAULKING & STORM WINDOW CONGLOMERATE, Ltd. H. Sisyphus, Pres.
So, here I go again, since the flight line had run out of Hemispheres Magazines when I called - is there an easy way of getting the Realms of Fantasy issue with the Ellison story here in the good old UK (preferably Reading or London)?
Thanks.
John, I subscribed to Interzone for 6 months and enjoyed the short stories. The ones appearing in Analog and Asimov's, even though high quality from quality writers, just don't seem to strike a nerve with me as the ones in Interzone. F&SF is still a sentimental favorite. There was an interesting critique which I recently read (and now forget where, maybe Locus?) that said that the magazine folks need to self-promote more and are making little to no effort to retain their dwindling readership. The gist was they need to survey the readers and find out what the hunger is. Yeah, they'll send you a free issue, but is that enough?
Here's a question (prompted by Harlan's recent appearance in "Realms of Fantasy") for y'all. Which fiction magazine do you most enjoy? Which ones makes you truly appreciate the art of the short story? Unfortunately, this shouldn't be a tough question because the field of contenders has dwindled over the years.
Also, while we're on the subject, does anyone feel that there is more of a market for short stories that publishers will admit? At least in the horror field, there have been some mass market collections that sold quite well. I'm thinking of collections like "The Nightmare Chronicles" by Douglas Clegg and "Magic Terror" by Peter Straub.
Forgot: For my own part, I'll be taking one bit of my own advice: This coming weekend, I'll be putting up a card table at my apartment complex with a sign: FREE BOOKS TO KIDS!
Figure getting rid of my doubles and unwanted books is an added benefit to getting books into the hot hands of the li'l chillun ...
Let me first just wish Susan a happy birthday, with many, many more of the same to follow.
And thank you, Harlan, for reminding us of Julie's impending birthday; it nudged me into finally sending DC a note to point him to the review I wrote last year of his excellent memoirs.
All this talk of birthdays gets me to thinking of a problem that has weighed on my mind of late: the greying of the science fiction and comic-book community.
Anyone here want to weigh in with ideas how we can turn more anklebiters on to written science fiction? Granted, I wrote a lengthy article for the same webzine for which I wrote the Schwartz review, but that was more geared toward getting kids into SCIENCE as well as into science fiction.
Writers far better than I have also done so (Spider Robinson, Paul T. Riddell, Ben Bova, Larry Young), but I'm interested in hearing what the members of THIS forum have to say on the matter.
Sheryl, I'm the one who threw the little Sudanese boy at you. I'm sorry for jumping down your throat, I wasn't even involved in this debate and I just jumped in swinging. Obviously we've each got experiences at two extremes of a very big issue, and if I was going to answer at all I should have thought out a more considered response to try to find a way for us to understand each other's arguments. In my own defense I should say I'm four chapters in to a six-chapter dissertation marathon, or at least I would be if I wasn't a week late with Chapter 4. I've been living on nicotine, G&Ts and burritos and getting three hours of sleep at night, which has got me on a bit of a hair trigger. I've been embarrassing myself all over the place lately - on Thursday I burst into tears at the market when I found they were out of tomatoes. My apologies.
HE: I'm glad you stop in from time to time. Thanks.
Sheryl: Look, all I'm saying is that it took me until I was 23 years-of-age to put an end to my abuse. I fought my "asshole" back. He happened to be my father. That's not uncomplicated, n'est-ce pas? Would that I could've done it at 11, but that's not how my world worked. Fucked up? Yeah. Life? Yeah. Sucks? Depends on whether you can "work" it or not. I hear what you say, but I also know how hard it is to hear what you say. C'est l'existance.
Todd: I hear you on the reten...I mean Attentive thing. Grad school made me nuts for details. It's not my nature, so I try to ignore it. Still....
David: I know you're on vacation and I'm too damn lazy to email you. I'm nobody, really, but I believe I came across your thoughts on the old Camille Paglia listserv. In those days, I may have used my Christian/Married name "Lauri Keegan." Oldtimers in these parts remember me by my husband's name, "Keegan.". Like I said, I'm nobody....just your run-of-the-mill American gentleman farmer (never been hung up on gender language. I figure if they're sayin' "Man" it's gotta mean me too. Maybe it's a jazz-musician thang....)
Harlan: Thanks for the clarification. The 2000 copyright date presented thus in the 8/2001 REALMS OF FANTASY might inspire other retent--that is, of course, "attentive"--folk to seek out previous-publication info. (And, of course, the historians are indeed looking for this kind of datum.) Meanwhile, in an e-mail message to Shawna McCarthy several days ago, I (unnecessarily) encouraged her and the magazine's staff to seek out more of your work and that of other too-infrequently seen contributors to the magazines these days (Janet Fox, A. A. Attanasio, Carol Emshwiller, et alles).
In the same mail, I also hoped to remind ROF book-reviewer and culture-hero Gahan Wilson of FREAKS source-story, "Spurs," by Tod Robbins; the film, of course, was directed by Tod Browning, which Wilson or the copyeditor inadvertently give as "Todd."
As I've had reason to write in another context recently (about these two, actually): "Tod," what a stupid name.
May we all follow Julius Schwartz's suggestion...
HE here:
Todd: there was no disingenuousness or flummery pursuant to REALMS of FANTASY not mentioning the HEMISPHERES publication of "Incognita, Inc." only a few months ago. The choice was mine, not that of either editor Shawna McCarthy or publisher Carl Gnam. I felt you needed to know that, per your posting of yesterday.
Carl (who has long been an admirer of my work) got wind of the HEMISPHERES assignment before I ever wrote the story; and he called and asked if he and Shawna could have a "first look" at the manuscript, for an almost-simultaneous publication, because his audience would not overlap with the readership of a seat-pocket inflight airline constituency. So when I finished the story, and sent it off via FedEx, and the next day HEMISPHERES's editor, Selby Bateman, called to say it was "magnificent" (his word of choice), and could he double my payday for the piece--a publishing miracle I'll discuss in depth at some later time--I sent a copy of the yarn to Carl (having already read it to Shawna on the phone) and the two of them asked to publish it, for which chance to reach an audience that might consider it for a Hugo or a Nebula (neither of which I've won for a number of years) I was extremely pleased.
Thus, the REALMS publication, almost simultaneous with the HEMISPHERES appearance, is not, strictly speaking, a "reprint." It is akin to the smart--and economically necessary--marketing when a writer does a story for, say, one of Martin Harry Greenberg's original paperback anthologies, and sells it at the same time(or moments later) to, say, The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction. Then they each race toward newsstand release, knowing their respective audiences will overlap only slightly.
To suggest that REALMS, or its publisher, or editorial staff, was being ethically compromising would be to disrespect them with the inference of guilty behavior, when just the opposite is true. Carl and Shawna would have put whatever indicia line I requested on the story (after all, they were so wonderful, working with me on the presentation of this story, that they not only obtained the artist I requested--Patrick Arrasmith and his associate Allen Douglas, who spent considerable time on the phone with me as I described what I envisioned for the accompanying artwork--and who did such a splendid job of realizing my mental picture that I'm currently paying in installments to buy the original to hang here in the house--but they permitted me to write the blurb and the pullquotes for the layout). It was MY choice ALONE not to confuse the provenance of the story. Though it has been selected for the Datlow-Windling BEST FANTASY & HORROR anthology for year 2000 (its precise publication date of 15 December 2000 making it eligible), its publication in REALMS of FANTASY, as a first printing, makes it eligible for nomination in the short story category for Hugo and Nebula THIS year.
And though I've been made painfully aware that there are writers who have manipulated the internet to get their friends and students and acolytes to nominate, and even award, work that many have suggested was less wonderful than the stories competing against them...I find I cannot bring myself to logroll in that way. If reader A likes "Incognita, Inc." and recommends it to reader B, and from that genuine word-of-mouth affection for the story comes a nominating vote, I'm all aglow. But to actually go out and individually call my friends, and solicit their votes is, I think, creepy. And makes any awards won through those tactics so debased and tainted, that they are no more honorable or worthy than shackles on a brigand.
So, Todd, I just wanted to let you know that REALMS did nothing untoward. Good records must be kept. Historians are lurking, always watching.
Also, since I'm here, my deep thanks to all of you who wished me a Happy Birthday. Julie Schwartz will be having his 86th on the 19th of this month...and my sweetheart Susan has HER birthday on the 24th of this month...but Julie isn't on the net, so if you intend to extend felicitations and urgings of goodhealth, you'll have to contact him through DC Comics, I guess. But the point of mentioning Julie, is that when he called to wish me a jazzy natal day, he said, "Y'know, we're getting pretty good at this birthday thing. Maybe we should keep doing it."
I'm weighing the options.
Otherwise, all, be nice to Sheryl; she may be a bit rabid, but I'm at least 54.6% on her side of the argument. And I called her and told her so. Which is not to say that I think the rest of you aren't 100% right in your positions...because I do.
Send me to the Middle East. I'm getting fluent in DoubleSpeak and Political Masturbation.
Yr. pal, Harlan.
Happy Birthday Harlan;
Sorry bout being late but work has kept me away from here and away from the internet!
Steven, funny you should mention it. I too suffer the misfortunes of decapitation. But I resolved that I wouldn’t let this get me down, as I couldn’t get much help anyway thanks to the way our health care system works (clearly, not among our god-given rights). So, seizing some dissolving suture I did the surgical repair work on my own and moved on in life - holding my head in pride, as high as I could get it. We can all do it man, with just a little initiative.
Meant to add this to the previous post, but the new REALMS OF FANTASY includes "Incognita, Inc." for those who didn't pick up a copy of HEMISPHERES. Uncleverly, ROF doesn't give the previous publication info on the story (a decent work, I'd say good side of middling for Ellison), so I dipped into the news page here to refresh my memory, and got to chuckle a bit over the notion that while Fred Chappell was fine for regional fiction, HEMISPHERES chose to turn to fantasists Bradbury and Ellison for something truly millennial...when Fred Chappell is a major fantasist in his own right, one of those to do work in a Lovecraftian vein that is actually art versus fandom or hack. He and Ramsey Campbell are the best in this wise in their literary generation--that good (and I refer to Campbell's post-juvenilia).
The relevant ROF carries a media cover, a subdued (and oddly unflattering) still featuring Julianna Margulies in the TNT production of THE MISTS OF AVALON. (We all have noticed that epic fantasy is all over the screens this year, eh?--GORMENGHAST coming to PBS in late June, REDWALL in public syndication already, THE MISTS coming up on cable, the various animated and perhaps unamimated movies...)
Well, David, took a look. neatly put together. Like your father, I'm an Fairbanks-born individual; like yourself, exposure to feminism early on certainly clarified not a few issues for me (though I was lucky enough to be mostly exposed to the more libertarian feminists, including Joanna Russ, who seems to have a strong libertarian streak almost in spite of herself [and please, no one give me a tiresome spiel about how the only libertarians are Objectivists or "Republicans who take drugs"--the word, as I suspect most of you know, has a much wider application than that]).
Hey, nice to get some pats on the back from the regulars here!
Lynn -- Coquille is about a dozen miles up the river from Coos Bay. They have a wonderfully campy melodrama theater with vaudeville olios called "Sawdusters" that runs every weekend from Memorial Day to Labor Day. My Dad was the "orchestra" (on honky-tonk piano) for the show for nearly two decades. And you're certainly welcome to crash on our spare bed if you come through Portland.
Joe -- I am indeed familiar with Susie Bright. I quote from one of her books (_Susie Sexpert's Lesbian Sex World_, I think) in mine. Gave her recent book, _Full Exposure_, a supportive if lukewarm review on Amazon.
cookie -- Are you saying you used to see my posts somewhere else, years back? Lemme guess: soc.feminism? Or was it alt.feminism or alt.romance? Send me a private email and let me know who you "were" ... but do it in the next 90 minutes because I'm going on vacation tomorrow morning. I MAY check my private e-mail address at dloft59@earthlink.net, but no guarantees....
Futher SKIFFY disclosure...after querying him, Damon Knight says Jack Dann first suggested the pronunciation to him, and Gary Westfahl recalls that the late Susan Wood may've been the first or at least among the first to pervert the sad little neologism--all this in the early '70s? (still waiting for confirmation on that)...quite the bday present for HE, to be listed on that group of notables as "sci-fi author"...
Sheyl, as folks have rather agitatedly suggested, not everyone who stands up to their abusers succeeds, and some are fairly reasonably sure beforehand that they will not succeed. So, hoping to help those folks is not in and of itself condescending, though it quickly can become so. Glad you were successful, and congratulations to your friend.
David~
Great site. My fiancé's family is from Coquille, OR (right 'round the corner from Coos Bay, as I understand it). I keep intending to do the circuit of people up there. With my friends from Seattle to Portland, I think I could spend a good two weeks crashing on people's couches. That and Bill's mom's ashes are scattered in a meadow that used to be on an old homestead (nothing left but the apple orchard) off the Rogue River, and he wants me to meet her.
I really enjoyed your essays.
L.
David,
I am greatly enjoying the revamped website. I would like to note, especially, your appreciation for "The Master and Margarita," which I remember reading for the first time in the early 1990's. Wonderfully funny and tragi-comic novel, very much on a level with anything of Gogol. Too bad Bulgakov never produced anything else to equal "Master." (If he did and I am misinformed, please feel free to point it out - I'd love to read it)
As for your new book, I am curious as to whether you have looked at the writings of Susie Bright. She has some very interesting things to say on healthy outlooks toward 'pornography'.
Regards,
Joseph
Thanks, David.
I just visited your site. I was bored and it proved to be a worthwhile and pleasant diversion. I will return later to read some of your essays. I am looking forward to your book. I've been fascinated by your ideas about pornography and the book you were writing since way back when I used to use newsgroups (and my real name). Anyway, as a pro-pornography feminist, I will have to buy at least one copy!
Thanks for pointing the way.
On other things, I'll just keep me mouth shut while ye old brain gears whirr.
Sheryl:
While your passion and energy are admirable, I cannot go along with your analysis. It seems to me your remarks about choice and responsibility are unclear on the concepts, and it also seems to me you are talking at least partly to other people, other demons, than the ones on this bulletin board. I don't think anyone here has suggested people who are victimized are "totally without responsibility," as you said in a recent post, so to charge that people think that implies that you are not reading other people's posts with care, or honestly engaging their arguments.
More important, you are lucky to live in a country where you can rant like this. You did not have a choice about that. Many of the rest of us here, in contrast, are lucky not to have been born into a family that included a Hank, and we had no choice about that. As Camus wrote, people have a tiresome tendency to label as "fate" that which crushes them, but joy is just as arbitrary and inevitable as misfortune, and therefore just as fateful.
This discussion of victimization began, if I recollect accurately, after a discussion of the activities of the Taliban in Afghanistan. The religious, ethnic, and gender "minorities" there do not have the freedom to speak out as you do, did not have a choice about being born into that milieu, and had no choice (either to vote or not vote) about the Taliban becoming the governing entity in their land.
You may indeed be an expert about your own experience, and that of other women like yourself, but to generalize your experience to all other Americans, let alone Afghanis, is intellectual arrogance.
On the brighter side, I totally revamped my Web site at www.david-loftus.com this week, for a more classy look and a lot more content. Anyone who has nothing better to do is invited to take a look and let me know what you think.
I usually just lurk, but I feel compelled to say something about all this.
Sheryl: Last year I met a little boy who'd had both legs amputated after being machine-gunned by rebel army deserters who raided his farm looking for food. Unfortunately he didn't have his baseball bat with him at the time. He managed to avoid the refugee camps and instead made his way north to try to make a living. Now he's peddling around Khartoum in this hand-pedaled bicycle contraption, surviving by begging and probably selling whatever he can steal. This kid is going to be on the streets for the rest of his life unless someone intervenes. Can you explain exactly how he was complicit in his own abuse? Perhaps you think his circumstances are too extreme to be included in your argument. If so, what exactly is the cut-off point? Would it be different if he'd been abused by a family member in Khartoum rather than shot by rebels? Or if he'd been shot by drug dealers or a family member in the crime-ridden American neighborhood his family were forced to live in due to poverty? Would your own circumstances have been different if your uncle had threatened you when you were five years old rather than eleven? Or what if you'd been eleven, but he'd had a gun rather than only his fists?
How Nietzschian of you, Sheryl. Sorry if I don't have time to respond, I'm getting moving advice today from a professional weightlifter who doesn't understand why I can't just pick up that darned ol' refrigerator and carry it over to its new home.
I'm glad I read your post, Sheryl. I was recently decapitated in a car accident, but I live because, when it happened, I thought "I'm going to be a survivor instead of a victim". Because of that choice, I'm still here today, typing this message.
I wish I had known that making such a simple choice solves everything.
Bitter and derisive? Sarcastic? Dehumanizing? You've all missed the point. It's not victims (or even assholes) I'm full on sick and tired of. They make their choices, just like I do, based on what's important to them. They may be stupid or even evil choices, but they're entirely up to them, and totally within their God-given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I'll even accommodate stupid choices as long as nobody's getting physically damaged, and as long as the asshole they're choosing to play their games with stays out of my way and doesn't interfere with my ability to enjoy my life. I watched quietly while one of my best friends married a raging alcoholic, because after a long heart-to heart, in which I quietly and lovingly pointed out all the problems she was letting herself in for if she did it, she insisted she loved him and wanted to marry him anyway. People get to be stupid if they want to be; they just shouldn't be given any sympathy for it, particularly when they've been advised that they're being stupid, as I always take careful pains to point out to people I catch at it. My entire extended family knows how I feel about the way they behave in regards to my uncle, believe me. I haven't said anything here that's not been repeated ad nauseum to my dear, loving goofballs, including during the latest round just this past weekend.
No, what completely enrages me is the wholesale cultural rejection of the clearly observable fact that it is incontrovertibly a choice to be a victim. Or a survivor, either, because under our current cultural definitions, you have to accede to being a victim before you "get to that place." It's not my aunt who pisses me off. It's those of you who think she (and millions of other choice making victims just like her) are completely without responsibility as to how her life plays/has played/will play out that infuriate me. You've all spent so much time listening to psychologists and sociologists and counselors and other quote/unquote "professionals" (all of whom have a financial stake in making people believe they NEED their professional help in order to stop being victims, so it's not like they're uninterested observers) that you apparently haven't been doing any close observation of actual people and behavior. Generalizations, my ass, Rick. I've lived in this all my life, and on top of that I spent 6 years teaching. I've dealt with more abuse "victims" than you'll see in your entire life unless you change your career plans and head for public school. You're not talking to an amateur; you *are* the amateur this time, so pay attention, kiddo. I've watched therapists approach their "victims" with the same over-sweet, over-kind, supposedly humane platitudes for years, and all it gets the person who needs the help is years and years of therapy, at the end of which, they still end up with an asshole. Making someone look at the hard core reality of their world and how it got to be that way is harder on them to begin with, but it enables them to make healthier choices a damn sight faster.
But just for a change, let's look at "victim" from a non-abuse perspective for a minute-because the attitudes and the problem with it are exactly the same no matter what it is that someone's theoretically being "victimized" by. Maybe you'll be able to see it if you're not activating your liberal politics button.
I "had cancer" last year. Not a major cancer that was going to kill me in 6 months or a year, or that required a radical surgery, followed by life altering chemotherapy; just a slow growing, 2 cm papillary carcinoma in my thyroid. The doctor who found it told me when the biopsy of the lump in my neck came back, "This is not a big deal. Even if we didn't do anything, it would take this thing 20 or 30 years to grow into anything significant. You've probably already had it for 15 or 20 years. But we should take it out and get you on thyroid meds to stabilize your endocrine system." So they took out my thyroid. Three weeks later, they gave me a radio-iodine pill that made me radioactive for 10 days, scanned me to see if the radioactivity concentrated was where it should be to be destroying any leftover thyroid tissue left floating around after the surgery, and in a month or so from now, they'll do the radioactive pill and scan again to make sure that the thyroid tissue is completely gone from my body. The cancer I had is specific only to thyroid tissue, so if it's all gone, I'm completely in the clear. Five years is a formality for this kind of thing. I'm fine, going to be fine, and have been going to be fine for a year, ever since I had surgery.
Am I a victim of this cancer? Hardly. I had an issue, it's fixed, and it's fine. It affects me in two ways: I take a thyroid replacement pill along with my birth control pill now every night after I brush my teeth, and people ask me about the scar on my neck. What a trauma is my life, oh, oh, oh.
In the process of being treated, I met a guy, Karl, who had the same diagnosis-in fact, a tumor about half the size of mine. Karl, however, calls himself a victim of cancer, and hopes someday to be a cancer "survivor." Wherefore the difference? Because he's let having a tumor rule his life, from the minute he heard the word cancer mentioned as one of several possibilities, right up to the last time I saw him at the surgeon's office for a routine follow-up 6 weeks ago. You would think this guy had an acute end-stage inoperable brain stem sarcoma, the way he runs around with this big cloud over his head. He's scared the hell out of his wife and his kids, taken stress leave time off work; and it's over something less dangerous than the average mole, according to the doctor who's doing the oncology follow-ups on us both. Karl is letting his fear of the word cancer rule the reality of his situation. Sooner or later, when his "terrible disease" doesn't kill him (and it won't) he'll decide he's survived and "overcome" this fear. The point is, this is all self-delusion. He was never in anymore actual danger than *I* was/am/will ever be. But he prefers living in fear to living in reality. He gets more attention living in the fear, and he likes getting it. I've had the opportunity to watch him in the doctor's offices and in the hospital. He practically shivers with delight when someone says, "Cancer? Oh, I'm so sorry!" He loves 'sharing' with others, and feels so much better when he goes to his cancer group-which, by the by, is filled with people who are actually dying or in real danger of it, from their cancer.
Now, I'm sure you all think I'm heartless at this point, and that's probably true. I certainly have no time or patience for people who are choosing to act stupidly, whatever it is they're being stupid about. But my relative lack of heart isn't the point. It's that "victims," no matter what or who they're victimized by, are not dealing in reality 95-97% of the time, because they're dealing in a state of self-perpetuated fear. Now, fear is a normal reaction to threats, and in healthy people serves to warn that there's danger to be dealt with. I was initially afraid when I heard the words malignant papillary carcinoma; I didn't know for certain what it meant, or how serious it was, or what I was going to have to do to deal with it. But I let go of that fear very quickly in favor of dealing with the reality of what the actual medical issues and dangers were, and then in favor of moving forward, after the issues and dangers were dealt with. I didn't run around pitifully crying "Cancer patient, cancer patient!" because that's not what the reality of the diagnosis ended up being. Choosing to hang on to fear, ANY fear, rather than acting on the warning it provides, and then moving beyond the experience to a new one is a perversion of fear's purpose. Instead of having a warning system to alert you to prospective dangers, you find yourself afraid of things that present little or no threat-like Karl and his cancer that's substantially less danger to his continued survival than driving his car. Karl's choice to live in fear has had consequences for him: he has high blood pressure now, not because he had cancer, but because he's living in terror of a cancer that's not even in his body anymore! He has made himself sicker than he was to start with.
It's no different with people who find themselves mistreated, abused, or even oppressed, for that matter. If you choose to react as though you have no power over your own life, and you roll over and just give it up to whoever comes to threaten you, to hit you, or to take your human right to exist and make your own choices away from you, ***YOU*** are involved in creating/perpetuating that situation. If you want to do it, fine; but God damn it, OWN it, and stop making excuses for your choice. Maybe a life being smacked around, or being molested is preferable to taking the chance of being shot. OK, live that way, then. It's not my choice. I'm not telling anyone they're required to fight back or even run. I'm saying that if you don't, acknowledge the reality that you're choosing not to, and accept that the consequences, whatever they are, of that choice are coming to you of your own accord. If you park on the train tracks, you're going to get run over when the train comes through. And anyone stupid enough to park on the train tracks doesn't deserve any sympathy when it knocks their arms and legs off. Compassion, even assistance, but not sympathy.
And drop this bullshit posture that passivity is some kind of state of higher consciousness. Standing up for yourself is not an act of aggression. ***It's an act of self-respect.*** I'm pretty sure I said that once before. (And as for the Dalai Lama-great philosopher, but who's in control of his country? He decided it wouldn't be him; what have been the consequences for his people?) I didn't nail my uncle in the balls because I was pissed-I did it to stay out of the hospital, and I encourage everyone who finds him/herself in a similar position to grab a baseball bat. Fuck all y'all that disagree with me. Because I hit him, he's never, ever tried to push me again. Was that my intent? No. But I'll damn well take it, and move on from there, and use whatever leverage I've got to get him to stop hitting other people-or the dog--when the choice presents itself. Because guess what? I'm not scared of him. My fear as a child led me to perceive him as a very real threat, but instead of hanging onto the fear of that moment, and running scared from him all my life, I moved through it. Now I look him in the eye when the little games my family plays with him start interfering with my ability to enjoy my life (which I share with them, as stupid as some of their choices are) and say, "Are you prepared to go to jail today? Because even though the sheriff's a friend of yours, the deputy on duty is a friend of mine. What's it going to be, asshole?" If I were afraid, he'd push back. But assholes, like victims, are cowards, and they fold when presented with sufficient resolve.
You can all think I'm the meanest, most ungenerous, bitterest, angriest person alive, but the fact of the matter is that I'm right, and y'all are wrong. I can point to 2 dozen people, who after being harangued about choices and consequences, took stock and owned up to what they were doing that was promoting the disaster area that their life had become. My friend Seana filed for divorce from her asshole last week, as a matter of fact.
This whole victim vs. abuser debate confirms my opinion about one thing. While it's good to have standards and convictions, things get problematic when we demand that others see the world through our eyes. Sheryl, be glad that you've escaped the situation your family members find themselves in. But if you expect them to behave like you, you're doomed to eternal frustration. We can only lead by example, after all.
two 'g's in 'aggressive'
Sheryl, you speculate that victims submit to abuse in order to cultivate feelings from others, and that they see their continued submission in the face of abuse as a sign of superiority--that it somehow makes them "better."
Your post echoes this, in a sort of reversed way. It's apparent from your language that you derive a similar sense of superiority from your aggressive response to being abused (as opposed to a passive response). And something like what Rick said: Years down the line (that is, now), what makes your self-righteous anger any more justifiable than the passive victim's "woe-is-me" wound-licking?
You are trying so hard to separate yourself from these victims--why? It won't erase the fact that you all have an unfortunate history in common--time spent with an abusive asshole.
If you can't accept that some people are much better suited to dealing with abuse than others--and that this has no effect on their worth as a human being--I don't know what else can be said.
And jeez, that kind of anger, even if it is justifiable, isn't healthy. I would never malign the man, but look what happened to Harlan (ignoring for a second the uniqueness his dynamic but admittedly agressive personality gives him). Sure, some of it might have been the smoking or genetics, but rage is just not a good thing to carry around...
I've been following some of this discussion concerning abuse and, if I might add, from personal experience: the assholes only win when you become dehumanized yourself.
Rick: Nicely put.
Excellent rebuttal, Mr. Wyatt. I wonder if the Dalai Lama wouldn't agree.
"The things that have happened to you in your life are the reasons you are who you are. The moment they keep you from becoming who you want to be, they are no longer reasons. Now they are excuses." ~Earl Rosamund (A Mohave desert rat pilot/philosopher you've never heard of before.)
Now if we could only figure out how to dilute all that righteous anger and release it in a fine aerosol mist over Afghanistan. And Bosnia. And China. Hell, there'll probably be enough left over to dust the Americas as well.
Some of us have more issues than Sports Illustrated. If only the answers were so simple.
L.
SKIFFY, Mr. Pinnick (I've misspelled that, haven't I?), was Damon Knight's intentional corruption of Forrest J Ackerman's "sci-fi." The relevant quotation is very like, "If one must use the term, one might as well pronounce it 'skiffy.'"
Since someone here is rooting around the files of FSG, they also published the first hardcover of Fritz Leiber's GATHER, DARKNESS!...so there's another legend's contract to seek and feel the history inherent.
Happy belated birthday, Mr. Ellison.
Thanks, Rick.
Sheryl: Once you get over being a victim and become a survivor, the next step is to get over yourself, which isn't so damn easy, either.
Nobody's perfect.
:)
I'm only going to chip in with one thing here:
"If you absolve the poor, sad, pitiful and incapable little victim of the responsibility for their own well-being, you absolve them of a portion of their humanity, as well. And guess what? Making people into something sub-human is generally the province of the assholes."
The tone you take towards people who are being battered is consistently bitter, derisive, and sarcastic, as evidenced above. Additionally, you present broad-based characterization of them as pathetic and willing participants in their own victimization. You set them up as passive target dummies and then you take shots at them every chance you get.
Why do I mention this? Because it is exactly the sort of behavior you rail against in describing "Uncle Hank". Internalizing a viewpoint of someone as weak and ignorant, barely worthy of one's scorn, is the first step in making it "okay" to abuse them. And being able to deftly shift the blame to them, as you seem to be so adept at doing, is the second. I don't doubt the incident with your uncle defined you, as you say. But perhaps it defined you in more ways than you care to admit.
I'll let someone else respond to the specifics. All I'll do is ask you: If you hate abuse so much, why do you choose to facilitate it by continually calling its victims morons and jellyfish? They certainly could use your message, but are they going to be able to hear it through all the anger and condescension?
I endorse your recomendation to victims of abuse to take action and get out of the situation they are in wholeheartedly - I think it is an admirable sentiment and well-voiced. However, I cannot condone your portrayal of those victims. I think it is mean, ignorant, and anecdotal in the worst sort of way, and possibly springs from some horrible anger towards someone in your life or history.
Dehumanization is not the only "province of these assholes". I believe they also lay claim to the State of Wrath. And I believe that's every bit as dangerous a place to live as an abusive household.
I’ve had a little sleep now, and am prepared to respond Maggie and the rest of you on the idiocy of “victim psychology”, battered whoever syndromes and the assholes who abuse those morons. I’ve lived in the middle of that especial waste processing plant all my life, and I just refreshed the stench in my nostrils over the weekend. Maggie in particular thought she needed to take me to task regarding what she thinks, based on what she’s been *told* by some of these victims. Unfortunately, I know first hand whereof I speak. I don’t need stories from any grandparents or anyone else, though I have them. I don’t need to go to a shelter, or a psychologist, or anyone else to tell me what goes on where an asshole is up to his/her tricks. Or why it continues. Or where the responsibility for ongoing shit should be accounted to. And as insulted some of you were, pay some close attention here, please. Harsh lessons have been learned the hard way, and I’m going to lay them out, hopefully to bring better understanding of what’s really going on in what we so euphemistically call a dysfunctional family.
Lesson One: *EVERY* SINGLE SENTIENT BEING ON THIS PLANET IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR, AND FOR THE CONSEQUENCES THAT BEHAVIOR BRINGS. Every single one. Not even the IH Down’s Syndrome child with an IQ of 40 can escape the fact that behavior has consequences. Current American trends toward political correctness would like that to be different for some certain behaviors and for some special classes of people, but it’s an immutable law of nature. A consequence will occur. Sometimes the consequence can be redirected, perhaps occasionally delayed, but it will always, always come. No exceptions, no matter what the therapist tells you.
Lesson Two: There is a very, **very big** difference between a person who’s assaulted and a victim. Someone who’s assaulted will let the asshole finish up in order to stay alive long enough to make the asshole pay; but they don’t lie back accept it. They DO something about it-via the courts, via personal vengeance, whatever, but they put a consequence on the asshole for his behavior. Assholes don’t get away clean when they go after someone who’s not willing to be victimized. And even assholes can learn to recognize the ones they’d best not fuck with.
Be clear on those two things. Now:
Maggie’s statement that while I am territorial and aggressive, some people are just not, from birth, is apologism for those lamebrains, plain and simple. I’m sorry, Maggie, but it is. If beyond the age you learn to speak you, yourself, can’t stand up and make it clear to a person who is hurting you-leave anyone else out of this for just a minute, I’ll get back that-if you can’t stand up and say KNOCK IT THE FUCK OFF, and then do something to back up that demand, then that’s on you and you alone. Period. You can go tell mama, tell teacher, call the cops, get a big stick and hit them back; there are always options for making it clear to an asshole that you’re not going to let him/her get away with hurting you. No “I’m just not like that” or “he’s too nice” or any of your pretty phrases should be allowed to hide what’s really going on when a person doesn’t say anything to someone who’s mistreating them. My brother is one of your “just not like that” people. I don’t know anyone who is, to put it in PC terms, more calm, unassuming, willing to let it go, compromise, lacking in desire to argue, just all get along. It’s not that people “aren’t like that”, it’s that they’re practicing avoidance because they’re big, fat cowards, my brother included. I’ve watched him do this all his life, and every time, I see him make a choice not to do anything. It’s ridiculous to pretend that that kind of avoidance behavior is anything but stupid, bordering on pathological. Those of you who encourage that behavior are mistaking it for courtesy, which is a wholly different thing altogether, involving unspoken social contracts and respect for the group. Respect and avoidance behavior do NOT go together. If you respect someone, you deal with them, you don’t pretend there’s not a problem when, in fact, there is.
But OH! you cry, they’re afraid! Well, no shit, Sherlock. Someone’s beating on you, raping you, whatever abuse they’re engaging in, fright is a consequence that will occur at a rate approaching certainty. Being ruled by that fear is another thing entirely. **That’s** a **choice.** You don’t want to believe it, but it’s absolutely the truth. You choose to let fear rule you, or you don’t and you move through it. The ugly fact that nobody wants to face is that the vast majority **choose** to let the fear win, and they do it consciously. Most people are cowards. They never say a word to anyone who could help them, because they’re afraid of shame; they’re afraid they’ll be blamed; they’re afraid of pink cows; it’s all about the fear.
Mostly, they and their apologists claim, they’re afraid of being hurt even more, of being killed. The thing is, kids, *THAT* is more likely than not going to happen anyway, whether they fight back, or whether they lay back. Because the unavoidable consequence of not saying STOP and backing it up one way or another is that the asshole is positively reinforced by that inaction. The asshole thinks “That was fun. I liked that. And s/he/they didn’t do anything to stop me. I think I’ll do it again. I think I’ll do more of it.” And does. And does. And does. I have been in the middle of this now for 30+ years, and I know exactly how this works both in the stopping and the permitting. To wit:
The asshole in my family is my uncle--call him Hank. He neither puts his hands on me, nor bullies, nor even rants at me, and he hasn’t since I was 11 years old, which was when he first graduated from a rising spiral of verbal and emotional abuse to the physical plane; he’d started hitting my aunt and my cousins about 3 months before he came after me, I discovered down the line. He continues to occasionally put his hands on his wife, on his daughter and even his son-in-law, and daily abuses in non-physical ways every other person in my family who gets within 50 yards of him and who lets him get away with it-there are exactly 3 of us. He’s 6’6”, weighs 280, and none of it is beer belly. He does one of two things when he meets you; he charms the shit out of you, or he intimidates it out of you. Either way, people tend to end up without their shit together around him. And if your shit is not together and he gets pissed off-it doesn’t have to be at you, not to begin with-he will start looking for a target. You’re around, you’re going to get nailed. First he screams and swears. Then he blames you for everything that he perceives has upset him. Then, if you haven’t groveled enough to suit him, (and it’s been too long since he’s had a reminder) he starts swinging at the target. Afterward comes the standard “Why did you piss me off?” bullshit. Seen this a thousand times, and it’s so textbook it makes me puke.
The first-and only-time he targeted me, I was 11. It’s one of the clearest moments of my life, because in some ways, it defines me. I was maybe 4’ 6”, about 60 pounds, standing in front of a runaway freight train when he started to scream. Was I scared? There’s no word for it. If you’ve felt it, you know, and if you haven’t I don’t want you to know even an inkling of it. I knew, like you know the sun is going to rise, that I was headed for same intensive care room I’d seen my father in a few months earlier, and probably the mortuary not long after that. I had time, standing there watching him spiral, to contemplate if my mother would bury me in a dress or in my overalls, and to hope that God would tell her the overalls. He was standing in the hallway outside my cousin’s bedroom door screaming about kids jumping on the bed and breaking it; truthfully pleading that his own stupid dog had done it only made it worse; he was on his way up-spittle flying, arms waving, punching walls, the works-and I could see he was about to snap. There was an aluminum baseball bat against the wall near me; and as completely terrified, and without any point reference as to what I needed to do to in that situation as I was, I decided that whatever happened I wasn’t going to just let him kill me. I was going to try to stop him. I had a couple of seconds to think it over, too, as he thrashed around and screamed. I remember thinking: would he hurt me worse if I fought him? Probably. Could I hit him hard enough to stop him? Probably not. Maybe I shouldn’t do it. But if I did hit him, where should I hit him? I didn’t think I could reach his head, and I didn’t think I could hurt his legs. I remembered what my dad had told me to do if some guy grabbed me. I figured even my uncle could be hit in the balls and slowed down. If I could get the rest of the kids outside, we could probably hide in the alfalfa field until my mother came. So I grabbed that bat, and gripped it in both hands, and when he came through the door, I swung it. I promise you that if you take a truly serious cut at an asshole’s balls, it WILL slow the bastard down, and if you follow up and hit him square, he fucking *stops*. Been there, done it, and if it will work for a scrawny 11 year old who couldn’t hit a teed ball on a bet, it will work for anyone over the age of 8 who tries it, believe me. He stood there, clutching his balls, choking, and I told him, “Keep coming. See what happens. You are not going to touch me. I’m not going to let you.” And as he staggered up, I cocked the bat back, and I walked toward him.
And he backed up, down the hall. And kept backing up until all of us were out in the living room, where we took off out the front door for my grandparent’s house. I did NOT let go of the bat until my grandfather took it from me.
“Hank” has never crossed me again in any situation. Why? Because I didn’t **LET** him get away with it the first time! I said no, and I backed it up. Oh, the bat wasn’t the end of it, not by a long shot. My mother made it clear that while she wasn’t a good shot, she did know how to chamber a shell into my grandfather’s 12 gauge. The only reason my father didn’t kill him outright was because Hank had literally saved my father’s life a few months before. But despite that debt, because I stood up to him and made it an issue, my parents straight up walked out of that relationship. They quit talking to him outside family gatherings, never let us back in that house when he was home without them being present again, and as his behavior continued to spiral up, they decided to leave town because they refused be around it if they weren’t going to be able to put a stop to it, which my aunt wouldn’t allow
So if I stopped him from messing with me, why is he still abusing other people? BECAUSE HIS VICTIMS LET HIM . It’s that simple, and that infuriating and that disturbing. My aunt lets him abuse her, their daughter lets him abuse her, and he’s even gone the rounds with his son-in-law, who lets him get away with it, too. But his own son also said no; went out, got a paper route, and a dishwashing job, and paid for karate lessons and when he was 14, he took Hank to task several times over the course of one fall, rather than let Hank beat on anyone while he was in the house. In fact, while his son was still at home, big enough and skilled enough to take him, the whole thing came pretty close to stopping altogether. Howsomever, now that nobody is consistently around who’s willing to regularly step up to the plate and stop him before he gets started, Hank is allowed to back in his little asshole groove. This goes on for a couple of months at a time, until one of the 3 of us that won’t put up with any of it has it out with him in the middle of some family dinner, no matter what my aunt says. Anyone who tries to force the issue beyond stopping the hitting, however, is told to stay out of it if they intend to be allowed to come to family events anymore. That included my grandfather when he was alive. When he found out about the beatings, Papa was going to kill him, but my aunt told her father that what went on in her house was her business, and to stay out of it, or she would move her family away from him. A choice, do you see? Nobody made her stay but her.
You don’t want to hear it, but I live in that place, and I’ve been dealing with the cumulative result of this stupid bullshit mentality all weekend again, and I’m telling you that this is Truth: victims protect their particular assholes, because something in them is in some perverse way being served by being a victim. They find some critical facet of their identity in victimhood. The rock bottom Truth is that in some sick, twisted way, they *do* ask for it, and they do it because they depend on it for an integral part their sense of self. Even the “nice ones” like my brother, who’s never let my uncle lay hands on him, but who will put up with his ranting, and his vituperative emotional warfare, find some particular value withstanding it, as if it makes them morally superior in some way. Victims carry this little turd-thought around as though it’s some sort of a merit badge, an ‘I made it through another one. I’m better than he is’ award, and they let him come back at them again and again, to reinforce that “moral sense.” But there’s nothing either moral or superior in it. It’s just plain delusion, stupidity and cowardice. All the excuses: their kids, no money, dangerous world, fear of being killed, you can throw anything you want at it, to try and camouflage the truth, but at the ugly, dirty bottom of it, victims are victims because they **choose** to be. It gets them sympathy and strokes, and accolades from those who admire martyrs. They like the attention, the same way the asshole likes the power. No one wants to know that, or worse, to admit it if they do know it, because it means that the assholes aren’t on their own in it. They’ve got accomplices. Victims stay because they want to. Even when they leave, they spend the rest of their lives looking back on the days when they were being abused and assaulted as some sort of powerful war story of great adversity and bravery that they tell people to prove how tough and good they are, to have survived it. They’re like dogs who lick their own vomit, feeding their psyches over and over on their illusion of fortitude, when all it really was, was pitiful stupidity.
My uncle is no different from any asshole in the world. He finds his pleasure in terrorizing, manipulating and twisting people who will let him get away with it. It doesn’t matter where you find them, or in what fashion they’re practicing their personal or even their collective brand of assholery, the basic underlying crap is no different.. They CAN be stopped. But if you don’t have enough sense, self respect, or even something as basic as self-preservation to at least flee, if not fight, well, then, you’ve given tacit permission for them to engage in it. Passivity is nothing but positive reinforcement misspelled. It doesn’t matter on what scale the assholes are operating, either. It’s a universal function.
Again, assholes are absolutely responsible for being assholes. No one makes them do any of the bullshit things they do. Every last one makes a choice to do what they do, every single time, no matter what their lawyer or their psychologist claims, and every one of them should be punished as harshly as possible. But they can’t scream at someone who isn’t there, and they’ll think long and hard before they assault someone who they know for certain will call the cops and send their ass to jail, or one who will pick up a bat and knock their gonads into their intestines, or who will gather some friends and come burn the palace down around their ears if they don’t cease and desist with the assholery. But because victims accept the violence perpetrated on them as “the situation they’ve been dealt” and they don’t stand up for themselves or for anybody else, assholes are able to repeat and repeat and repeat their attacks and with each one that goes unanswered, they ratchet up the intensity for the next time. The statistic that women are in the most danger when they leave their abusers doesn’t apply to the woman who leaves and presses charges the first time it happens. It only applies to the idiot, sick-minded victim who’s let him/herself be mistreated repeatedly, who has fed into this twisted, ugly mess of a relationship and nourished it to that conclusion.
As for all the arguments about kids: No kid should ever be abused, by anyone, including other kids. It’s their parent’s job to protect them. But even a kid as young as 2 has some level of responsibility to open their mouth and object when they’re being hurt. When parents either don’t protect them , or are the problem, a kid has to open his/her mouth in order for anyone to know there’s a problem. Nobody can do that for them. There have always been people willing to step up to the plate for kids, whether “the culture” said they had any business doing it or not. Kids can also walk away. They do it every day. It’s not easy, and it’s not safe, but it can be done. I could give you a dozen examples of kids I know personally who did it. Some endings are better then others, but most of them ended up out of the cycle.
When parents don’t do their job, kids get screwed, and they get killed. And to absolve the sorry excuse for a parent who stays with an asshole who beats not only him/her and but the kids too--that’s pure and utter bullshit, people, face it. No man or woman who lets their kid get assaulted by anyone or anything without making the asshole pay for it should be allowed to keep them. The worst thing my parents ever did was leaving my cousins in that house with their father, and in some ways, I’ll never forgive them for it. My aunt was already grown; if she’s willing to take it, fine, her option. But to keep her kids in it-well, if I’d been my mother, or even just a couple of years older, it wouldn’t have happened that way.
Don’t get me wrong-I love my family dearly, but I also see them very clearly, and because I do, I see the rest of these so called victims, too. I see the illusory conventions that they insist be observed in order to ‘keep the peace’ for them, and I see it for the lie that it is. Because I love them, I CHOOSE to observe my family’s moronic conventions when I go home, up to a point-although that point got exceeded this weekend, and the only reason my uncle isn’t in jail is that he was smart enough to get out of my way and stay out of my way. Like I said, even assholes can learn who not to fuck with.
If you evaluate the whole asshole/victim relationship dynamic in full honesty, without allowing your preconcieved, feminist, politically correct notions to interfere with realistic, based on observation and not sentiment, evaluation, you’ll learn the same thing I did: that this whole “the victim isn’t to blame” crap is pretty much nothing but trite psychobabble, intended to make people feel good without really addressing the base issue of their cowardice. Probably 90% of that nonsense is written by former victims-oh, excuse me, that bunch likes to be called “survivors” like they were stranded in the Andes by a plane crash or something. Right. I’m not even going to start on survivors. That’s a 10 week class in self-delusion being promoted as psychotherapy.
Choose to ignore the complicity of the victims if you like, but don’t pretend it doesn’t exist, and don’t pretend it that there’s no choice involved. If you absolve the poor, sad, pitiful and incapable little victim of the responsibility for their own well-being, you absolve them of a portion of their humanity, as well. And guess what? Making people into something sub-human is generally the province of the assholes.
I second ViewMaster's praise of "Memento" -- a fascinating piece of work. As for "startup.com," I saw a reviewer's cassette copy of it a month ago and wrote about it in detail on www.documentaryfilms.net, Alejandro. Cool documentary!
In weeks past, I mentioned receiving rejections from Ellison, Dr. Ruth, and Helen Gurley Brown; last week brought in a handwritten refusal from Isabel Allende. I also received a possible offer for help from another great contemporary writer, but that name will have to remain under wraps until the deal is closed, thumbs up or down, permanently. Today I sent letters off to everyone from Fulghum and Cronkite to Stephanie Seymour and Elizabeth Hurley. Could get REAL interesting....
Having just gotten back from being home for 5 days in the middle of my family, where an abuser holds court every day, I've got substantially more to say on that subject, but I don't have time to tell all the real deal at the moment. I will say, however, that nice, sweet, politically correct and victim-ego enhancing opinions and theories may abound, but truth does NOT lie in that direction. Been there, been dealing. I will return with a report from the front shortly.
A film I'd recommend is Secret Society, a British comedy about a group of British working class women who take up sumo wrestling
in response to a mean world that ridicules their size. It's a great comedy-had its U.S. premiere at the Hawaii Spring Film
Festival, so it will probably be out later this year nationwide.
Well, let me add one more title to your list: Startup.com. Just saw this extraordinary documentary this afternoon. Filmmakers Chris Negedus and Jehane Noujairn had complete access to these two entrepreneurs who wanted to cash in on the dotcom craze by launching a site that would enable you to, among other things, pay your traffic tickets via Internet. It's all there: the excitement, the cockiness, the arrogance, the meetings with the big players, the disappointments, the unwarranted spending of investors' money in inconsequential things while the product went to hell, the rupture of friendships…It is indeed a document of and for our times and one of the best films I have seen so far this year.
FADE IN: SINCE IT'S the START of the traditional SUMMER BLOCKBUSTER season, a few words about movies seems in order. In fact, just two words: "SHREK" and "Memento." Those two words say it all. "Shrek" is only hilarious. I could watch that bird explode five times in a row and still bust a gut each time. "Memento" (a movie which runs backwards) is a dynamite mystery featuring a man whose short term memory no longer functions. Thing is, his wife was raped and murdered and he's trying to find out who did it. A tall order when he forgets what happened fifteen minutes ago.
If you missed these two this weekend, you've gotta catch 'em before they wear out their welcome at your neighborhood theater.
FADE TO BLACK...
MICHAEL: First gut reaction to the Sturgeon contract: "Ooooooooh."
HARLAN: A very happy day to you; long may you write.
TAMMY: Damned good idea. Think I'll re-up as soon as I have a little pad of cash (read: as soon as I no longer have to feed a houseguest and as soon as my ladylove takes her post-Master's Degree Graduation (at TWENTY-ONE years of age!) vacation with her mother).
ALL: A safe and happy Memorial Day to you, please, those who celebrate.
Hau'oli la hanau Mr. Ellison. May you continue having an outrageously good and long life!
Jim,
White Wolf seems to have rolled up its non-game fiction publishing program entirely--and that would include both the Ellison and Moorcock omnibuses. I haven't seen any material--preview, galley or otherwise-- from White Wolf since Steve Pagel left their PR office. Pity, really. Of course, the Moorcock material came spilling off the presses much faster, but Mike didn't make a point of adding new material, as Harlan did.
--Alex
I can think of no better way to celebrate Mr. Ellison's Birthday than renewing my H.E.R.C. membership. I,ve just sealed the check in the envelope.
...Of course, it won't go out until Tuesday.
...It's the thought that counts.
To the best of my knowledge, Edgeworks Vol. 1 hardcover is no longer in print, though you can still pick it up here:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565048296/o/qid=991001104/sr=2-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-3829162-4916515
Happy Birthday, Harlan!
J
{he begins by climbing atop his rickety perch, a worn crate marked 'lye soap' and Bolivian Oranges', clears his throat and waits momentarily): Okay, folks: Here goes. A few days ago I led a workshop. Yes, believe or not, I did.
Anyway, we were supposed to have twenty-five people. Had one hundred twenty-five show up. It was supposed to last, oh, four hours. Ran to eight and change.
At the end, after we managed to send everyone home, a writer I know, who snuck into the proceedings, came up to me and said (I'm quoting directly now): How the HELL did you do that?
What, I said, trying not to slam my fingers in a folding chair. (Something I am frequently prone to doing.)
Not one single heckler. Not one single pain in the ass. Everyone went away happy. How the HELL did you do that? I'm lucky if I don't get one stalker every time I do a workshop.
Hmmm. Good question. Answer: Ain't got a clue. But I did suggest that maybe it was an implied antithesis of Unca Harlan's effort about rabid fans and warm cups of vomit and a perverted need to urinate in a writer's shoes after he has set them out to be polished and cleaned.
In other words: The opposite of "Xenogenesis".
He looked, blank-faced. Xenowhat?
Xenogenesis, I said, again. It's in Edgeworks, Volume One, page, uh, 110, I think.
So he pads off to the local B & N. Nope. Not there. Was told B & N doesn't carry Harlan Ellison anymore.
Oh, really, says I? Since when? (I'm thinking the moron who poses as a bookseller has Harlan Ellison tomes in stock, but is too stupid to know it.)
Long story short: Does ANYONE know if Edgeworks Volume One is still in print? I don't mean the soft cover. I mean HARD cover.
(he falls from his perch, dusts himself off, and leaves; resuming lurk mode).
And finally: Happy B-Day, Mr. Ellison. Try for another sixty?
Until next time. . .
Sorry about that last one. I meant to edit it before hitting send! It's a list of Important People Born This Date.
--Alex
1332 Ibn Khaldun Tunis, Arab historian/sociologist (Muqaddimah)
1595 Benedictus Carpzovius [Benedikt Carpzov], German lawyer
1626 William II prince of Orange/stadholder
1652 Elisabeth C "Liselotte" van de Palts German/French duchess of Orleans
1738 Bonaventura Furlanetto composer
1756 Maximilian I Jozef King of Bavaria
1774 Francis Beaufort Admiral/hydrographer (Beaufort wind force scale)
1794 Cornelius Vanderbilt millionaire (B & O railroad)
1799 Jacques-François-Fromental-Elle Halevy [Elie Levy], composer
1806 Charles-Joseph Tolbecque composer
1815 Henry Parkes British journalist/premier of Australia
1818 Amelia Jenks Bloomer suffragette known for her pantaloons
1819 Julia Ward Howe US, author/lecturer (Battle Hymn of the Republic)
1822 Henry Wylde composer
1822 Josef Joachim Raff composer
1823 John Gray Foster Major General (Union volunteers), died in 1874
1836 Edwin Gray Lee Brigadier General (Confederate Army), died in 1870
1836 Jay Gould US railroad executive, financier
1837 "Wild Bill" Hickok [James Butler] cowboy/scout
1837 Robert Frederick Hoke Major General (Confederate Army), died in 1912
1839 Luigi Capuana Sicilian author/critic (Roccaverdina)
1849 "Blind" Tom Bethune pianist/composer
1852 Billy Barnes cricketer (England all-rounder 1880-90)
1854 Georges Eekhoud Belgian writer (Jeune Belgium)
1861 Victoria E Matthews educator
1867 Arnold Bennett England, novelist/playwright/critic (Great Babylon)
1870 Lionel Palairet cricketer (elegant England bat in the Golden Age)
1871 Georges-Henri Rouault Fr expressionist painter (Miserere et Guerre)
1874 Dustin Farnum US, actor (Squaw Man, Virginian) [or 1870]
1874 Richard von Schaukal Austria poet/writer (Eros Thanatos)
1879 Lucile Watson actress (Great Lie, Watch on the Rhine, Let's Dance)
1881 Rudolf Pannwitz German writer
1884 Bax Brod composer
1887 Emiel van der Straeten Flemish playwright (Sudanese legends)
1887 Erich Kuttner German journalist/historian (Vorwärts)
1887 Frank Woolley cricketer (long-running England left-arm all-rounder)
1888 Louis Durey composer
1891 Claude Adonai Champagne composer
1892 Sara Heyblom Dutch actress (Pygmalion, Fietsen naar de Maan)
1894 Dashiell Hammett Maryland, author (Sam Spade, Maltese Falcon)
1894 Louis-Ferdinand Céline France, novelist (Journey to End of Night)
1895 Marij Kogoj composer
1897 John Douglas Cockroft English physicist (Radar, Nobel 1951)
19-- Isabel Lascurain México, singer
1902 Celius Dougherty composer
1906 Robert Shone director-general (NEDC)
1907 Felix de Nobel Dutch orchestra leader
1907 Rachel Louise Carson biologist/ecologist/writer (Silent Spring)
1908 Alex Brown snooker player
1908 Harold Rome composer (Fanny, Pins & Needles)
1908 Melle J Oldeboerrigter [Melle], Dutch painter/cartoonist
1909 Isador Goodman composer
1910 Daniel Greenway CEO (Daniel Greenway & Sons)
1911 Hubert Humphrey (Senator-D-MN) 38th Vice President (1965-69), 1969 Presidential candidate
1911 Torolf Elster Norwegian journalist/writer (Frihet och demokrati)
1911 Vincent Price St Louis MO, actor (House on Haunted Hill, The House of Usher, Pit and the Pendulum, Scream and Scream Again, The Fly)
1912 John Cheever writer (Wapshot Chronicle)
1912 Sam Snead Hot Springs VA, PGA golfer (Masters 1949, 52, 54/PGA-1963, 65, 67, 70, 72, 73)
1913 Arthur Mervyn Stockwood bishop (Southwark England)
1913 Wolfgang Schulze [Wols] German cartoonist/painter
1914 Hugh Le Caine composer
1914 Lord Erroll of Hale British minister
1914 Rose Stainton CEO (British Airways)
1915 Herman Wouk New York NY, novelist (Caine Mutiny, Winds of War)
1915 Mario del Monaco Italian opera singer (Verdi/Puccini)
1916 Norman Griggs Vice President (Building Society Association)
1918 Yasuhiro Nakasone Japanese PM (1982-87)
1919 Kam Fong Honolulu HI, actor (Hawaii Five-0)
1920 Michael Webster CEO (DRG)
1920 William Crawshay Lord-Lieutenant of Gwent
1921 Caryl Chessman kidnapper who got the death penalty (1960)
1921 Redd Stewart Ashland City TN, guitarist/pianist (Pee Wee King Show)
1922 Christopher Lee London England, actor (Hound of the Baskervilles)
1922 Sidney Keyes English poet (Iron Laurel)
1923 Henry Kissinger Secretary of State (1973-77)/Nobel Peace Prize (1973)
1923 Lord Freyberg British Colonel of General Staff
1925 John Moberly diplomat
1925 Mai Zetterling Sweden, actress (Only 2 Can Play, Quartet)
1926 Gordon Leggat cricketer (open batsman for New Zealand in 9 Tests 1953-56)
1927 Bryan Cowgill deputy chairman (Mirror Group)
1927 Jan Blokker Dutch writer/journalist (VPRO, People's Newspaper)
1928 Thea Musgrave Barnton Midlothian Scot, composer (Mary Queen of Scots)
1929 Donald Howard Keats composer
1930 Eino Tamberg composer
1930 John Barth novelist (The Sot-Weed Factor)
1930 Simon Barrington-Ward
1930 William S Sessions Arkansas, director of FBI
1931 Florence Sharples director (British YWCA)
1931 John Chapple British chief of General Staff
1931 Kenny Price Florence KY, country singer (Midwestern Hayride, Hee Haw)
1931 Veroslav Neumann composer
1932 Jeffrey Bernard singer
1934 Harlan [Jay] Ellison US, sci-fi author (7 Hugos, Doomsman, Babylon 5)
1935 Elias Gistelinck Flemish composer
1935 Lee Meriwether Los Angeles CA, Miss America (Time Tunnel, Barnaby Jones)
1935 Ramsey Lewis Chicago IL, pop jazz artist (Hang on Sloopy)
1936 Benjamin Bathurst vice chief of British Defense Staff
1936 Eric Anderson headmaster (Eton)
1936 Lord Holme president British Liberal Party
1936 Louis Gossett Jr Brooklyn NY, actor (An Officer & a Gentleman, The Deep)
1939 Don Williams Floydada TX, country singer (I Believe in You)
1939 Earl Cairns CEO (S G Warburg & Co)
1939 Jerry Mercer Montréal Canada, rock drummer (April Wine-Just Between You and Me)
1940 Rene Koering composer
1941 Adriaan Venema Dutch journalist/author (Mussert)
1941 Allan Carr Chicago IL, director (Grease, Happiest Millionaire)
1941 Davina Phillips actress
1942 Kent Bede Bernard Trinidad, 4X400 runner (Olympics-bronze-1964)
1942 Priscilla Anne McLean composer
1942 Roger Freeman British minister of transport
1943 Bruce Weitz Norwalk CT, actor (Hill St Blues, Death of a Centerfold)
1943 Cilla Black Liverpool England, rock vocalist (You're My World)
1944 Christopher J Dodd (Governor/Senator-D-CT, 1981- )
1945 Bruce Cockburn Ottawa Canada, folk rock vocalist (Waterwalker)
1947 Liana Alexandra composer
1947 Peter DeFazio (Representative-D-OR)
1947 Robert Reinacher Jr horse trainer
1948 Aleksandr Aleksandrovich Volkov cosmonaut (Soyuz TM-8, T-14, TM-7)
1948 Anna E "Annelies" Balhan Dutch revue-artist/actress (Sweet Chairty)
1948 Pete Sears bassist (Jefferson Starship)
1951 Beau Kazer Toronto Ontario Canada, actor (Brock-Young and Restless)
1951 John Conteh boxer
1951 Norma Jean Almodovar Binghampton, auto-biographer (Cop to Call Girl)
1954 Catherine Carr US breaststroke swimmer (Olympics-2 gold-1972)
1955 Bill Malley Oakland CA, Nike golfer (1991 El Paso Open-30th)
1955 Graeme "Jock" Edwards cricketer (beefy New Zealand lefty batsman late 70's)
1956 Lisa Niemi Houston TX, actress (Dirty Dancing, Will Rodgers Follies)
1956 Nick Lowery NFL kicker (New York Jets)
1956 Steve Pagano horse trainer
1957 Bruce Furniss US swimmer (Olympics-2 gold-1976)
1957 Duncan Goodhew swimmer
1957 Siouxsie Sioux [Janet Susan Dallion] Kent England, punk rock vocalist (Siouxsie & the Bandshee-Wild Thing)
1958 Linnea Quigley Davenport IA, actress (Night of the Demons, Virgin High)
1958 Neil Finn rocker (Split Enz-I Got You, Crowded House)
1960 Ray Armsetad Kirksville MO, 4X400 runner (Olympics-gold-1984)
1960 Vinodhan John cricket pace bowler (Sri Lankan in 6 Tests 1983-84)
1961 Cathy Silvers New York NY, actress (Jenny-Happy Days, Foley Square)
1961 Jill Sterkel US swimmer (Olympics-bronze-1976, 84, 88)
1961 John Lugbill Wauseon OH, US canoist/kayaker (Olympics-92)
1961 Peri Gilpin Waco TX, actor (Roz Doyle-Frasier)
1962 Mariangela D'Abbraccio Naples Italy, TV actress (Passioni)
1962 Meg Parsont personality (David Letterman Show)
1962 Ravi Shastri cricketer (Indian SLA all-rounder 1981-92)
1962 Ray Borner Australian basketball center (Olympics-1984, 88, 92, 96)
1965 Jacob Brumfield Bogalusa LA, outfielder (Toronto Blue Jays)
1965 Pat Cash Australia, tennis player (Wimbledon 1987)
1965 Todd Bridges San Fransisco CA, actor (Diff'rent Strokes, Fish)
1966 Eric Leckner NBA center (Detroit Pistons)
1966 John Jaha Portland OR, infielder (Milwaukee Brewers)
1966 Ray Sheppard Pembroke, NHL right wing (Florida Panthers)
1966 Sean Kinney US rock drummer (Alice in Chains-We Die Young)
1967 Chin Yang jockey
1967 Doug West NBA guard (Minnesota Timberwolves)
1967 George McCloud NBA forward/guard (Dallas Mavericks, Phoenix Suns)
1967 Paul Gascoigne soccer player
1967 Ruthie Bolton Holifield WNBA guard (Sacramento Monarchs/Olympics-gold-96)
1968 Cedric Smith NFL running back (Washington Redskins, Arizona Cardinals)
1968 Frank Thomas "Big Hurt", 1st baseman (Chicago White Sox, 1993 MVP)
1968 Jeff Bagwell Boston MA, infielder (Houston Astros)
1968 John Connelly Toledo OH, Nike golfer (1991 New Hampshire Open)
1969 Chip Beake WLAF administrative assistant (Barcelona Dragons)
1969 Dondré T Whitfield Brooklyn NY, actor (Another World, All My Children)
1969 François Letourneau St Jerome Québec, canoeist (Olympics-96)
1969 Lesley Tashlin Toronto Ontario, 100 meter hurdler (Olympics-96)
1969 Todd Hundley Martinsville VA, catcher (New York Mets)
1969 Travis Williams NBA forward (Charlotte Hornets)
1970 Liz Earley St Catharines Ontario, LPGA golfer (1995 Thailand Open)
1970 Michael Blackburn Australian laser yachter (Olympics-96)
1970 Todd Collins linebacker (New England Patriots)
1971 Corey Beck NBA guard (Charlotte Hornets)
1971 Ferdino Hernandez soccer player (FC Utrecht)
1971 Monika Schnarre Toronto Ontario Canada, actress (Ivana-Bold & Beautiful)
1971 Scott Szeredy NFL/WLAF kicker/punter (Chiefs, Barcelona Dragons)
1972 Antonio Freeman NFL wide reciever (Green Bay Packers-Superbowl 31)
1972 Karen Hecox US 1500 meter runner
1972 Troy Sienkiewicz NFL tackle/guard (San Diego Chargers)
1974 Danny Wuerffel NFL quarterback (New Orleans Saints)
1976 Darrell Russell defensive tackle (Oakland Raiders)
1976 Richard Park Seoul Kor, NHL center (Pittsburgh Penguins)
1980 Jessica Deglau Vancouver British Columbia, 200 meter butterfly (Olympics-96)
1. Happy Birthday!
2. I am doing research on the origin of the word "skiffy". I know that Mr. Ellison has used it, but did he invent it?
3. The first time I saw Mr. Ellison was at a small Dr.Who convention in LaLa Land back in either 1978 or 1979.
Sixty-seven years old. Jesus! I first met Harlan 34 years ago, when he was an Angry Young Turk, and I was a dopey young boy. He's a lot greyer now, as am I, but y'know, he's STILL an angry young turk. It's just that when he was an angry young turk in the era of would-be revolutionaries, he stood out as a leader, a thinker and a shining example of not taking any shit. Now, in this era of angry young reactionaries and "post-literate" culture, he stands out as a bulwark against the encroaching darkness.
Happy birthday, you ol' curmudgeon!
--Alex
First Dylan and then Harlan. Two American geniuses celebrated their birthdays in the same week. And for that reason alone we should all rejoice: they are still around, they are still kicking some mean ass and they are still having fun at whatever they do best. So, let's toast Harlan, let's us toast Bob. The world would be a much gloomier place without their kind. And here we go, in Spanish, our own rendition of Happy Birthday:
Feliz, feliz en tu día
Amiguito que Dios te bendiga
Y que reine la paz en tu día
Y que cumplas mucho más.
(Happy, happy may be your day
May God bless you, dear friend
may peace reign in your day
and may you celebrate many birthdays more.)
I know more syllables in that last rhyme, but unfortunately the English word for cumplas was attain and reach and it didn't shymr right in English.
I'll provide the melody for Kerry:
sol,sol,la, sol, do, ti....
sol, sol, la, sol, re, do,
sol, sol, (high)sol, mi,do, ti, la--
fa,fa, mi, do, re, do.
Aww, heck! You can hear it!
Happy birthday, Harlan! All best wishes!
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday to you,
Happy birthday dear Harlan,
Happy Birthday to you.
Regards and best wishes
Kerry
PS - Still keeping an eye out for Phantom T-shirts.
Spielberg and 'Pearl Harbor'?! Not even he goes for pure predictability.
Colleen-
You should hear my Uncle Jim on the subject. Army Air Corps, and he was in both theatres, being 18 years older than my father (who was born in January of 1942).
Let's just say that my Uncle Jim has no illusions about "bravery " and "courage."
Harlan - If I were there I'd give ya a big hug & a smooch on the cheek. Happy Birthday!
Peg
I'm the type to listen to commentary tracks on DVDs, if I like the movie, to hear what the filmmakers have to say, etc. In listening to the director of PEARL HARBOR talk about his past movies (he made three prior to P.H., and Criterion has blessed two of 'em), I know that a) he was making a joke in the quote below (he probably said it in a very deadpan way, and the journalist may not have picked up on it), and b) he has an almost Spielbergian commitment to making movies that the highest number of people possible will absolutely love. I don't mind.
J
All the publicity bumph about "Pearl Harbour" is only just starting to filter over to the UK, but today's Sunday Times features a quote from the director which encapsulates everything that may be wrong about the film:
"I think this movie's a very different movie than Titanic," asserts Bay, in deadly earnest. "I mean, they sunk a ship. We're sinking a bunch of ships."
It also goes on to describe the director having his bedroom feng shui'd and discovering that a wrongly placed clock was preventing his budget from being approved. Hmmm....
No I haven't seen Pearl Harbor the movie yet, even though my town
had "Pearl Harbor" fever for a couple of weeks. The survivors told their stories & Hollywood treated them like kings & queens.
One woman who was 16 that fateful day, told me how the wounded were brought to the hospital at the plantation where she lived.
The hospital only had 2 nurses, so she got drafted to help. I complimented her for "showing her spine" as it were, and she said
"No, my father SPOKE! Don't be a sissy, those boys need your help! I was there for a week as they brought in boys with peach fuzz on their faces. No more Pearl Harbor for me".
I'll second whoever mentioned "Shrek" as a film to catch. Interesting tidbit: I landed an internship at Farrar, Straus & Giroux this summer, and they're all really busy in the publicity department b/c the original book "Shrek" was under their imprint...actually, the author's written quite a few children's books. Second (and to me, cooler) tidbit--I was going through tons of files that FSG keeps for all their authors (copyrights, contracts, etc.) and I stumbled on a yellowing folder--it was the contract and copyright for Theodore Sturgeon's "More Than Human." It was just really weird seeing this almost 50-yr old document...signed by Sturgeon in a number of places, of course. Gave me chills, it did.
The saddest thing about Pearl Harbor, for me, was the waste of good talent. Why Ben Affleck signed up for another Bruckenheimer/Bay movie after "Armageddon" is beyond me (except to, of course, make a good paycheck to allow himself to make better movies for less money - not to mention Project Greenlight).
Not to mention a wasted opportunity to see Kate Beckinsale in something stateside again - I loved her as Hero in "Much Ado About Nothing."
For anyone who has an urge to see a movie about Pearl Harbor and the Doolittle Raiders this weekend, I suggest renting "Tora, Tora, Tora" (recently out in a sepcial edition DVD) and "Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo." Now, we're talking movies with a respect for the real event.
Justin, Justin, Justin. There are times when, as we walk the good earth, we MUST show some self-discipline, taste and insight. There was NO effort by the crank factory of Pearl Harbor to make a good film or an inventive one. It's a lazy cash-in on someone else's success (and a dumb, crappy one too, called 'Titanic'). Little historical accuracy, hackneyed dialogue, unspeakable predictability, cliche characters. This is the model for the effort to make a quick buck. Y'know popcorn movies can be very good, but they're good because SOME inventiveness went into them. Films like Raiders, Terminator, The Hidden, American Werewolf in London, the first Batman, and so on. Pandering, condescending rip-offs like 'Pearl' don't deserve success because they perpetuate the paucity of inventiveness and low expectations from viewing audiences: it keeps too much shit coming out.
So don't ever say you liked 'Pearl'again, hear? That's a command from the Fleet Admiral.
Finn-
But- but...I really liked PEARL HARBOR. Part of what I saw up on screen during PEARL HARBOR was genuine *effort*, which I haven't seen in a "summer blockbuster" movie in quite some time. Whether or not anybody feels the flimmakers were successful, I for one appreciate the effort. And I do like the movie. But that's just me.
...And to follow up Shane's last entry:
I didn’t know that elemental force gushed out on May 27th but to that I must extend a happy one to the man, and I have to tell you, reading him or talking to him, you’d never believe he’s in his supposed age bracket: he is as exuberant and youthful and jovial and perspicacious and sagacious and hip as me, you or so many of the 21-year-olds I know; he has the creative vitality of a dynamo. Hell, we’re talking about a real life Billy Batson here!
Harlan, I don’t mean to embarrass you with so much bombastic homage and bravado (not to mention the nauseating reverence - I mean I hope I don't have to listen to this on MY birthday) but if there’s a day you just won’t be able to duck the flyin’ kisses (n’ don’cha be worryin’ - I’m hetero) it’s the 27th! We look forward to many more decades of the Ellison fervor!
Rick - good call. I thought about it after my post and realized Sheryl must be feeling rather battered herself.
Sheryl, sorry if we pulled out the baseball bats hard & fast. We do still want you around. (well, I can only speak for me but at least I still want you around).
BTW - any thought of putting up a separate board just for the birthday wisshes? (I can just imagine the volume this place is gonna see).
Cheers,
Peg
Matthew -
Let's just say I was picking cheese off my keyboard after reading the Erica Jong version. Thanks for making my day.
Oh, and may I recommend to one and all that yu go see "Shrek" this weekend? Don't buy the toys, cause that would mean money for the McFarlane empire of pure evil, but do go see a lovely movie with a real social sensibility....aw, fuck it.
"Schrek" is one of the funniest damn movies I've ever seen, all the way from a very unfortunate wooden "possesed toy" with a long nose to the ickiest use of the magic mirror from Snow White that you could possibly imagine. Please, go see it. And then rent "Tora, Tora, Tora," and boycott "Pearl Harbor" so that Ben Affleck stays in movies that know how to use his talents.
Joseph-
About ten years ago some of the National Lampoon writers came out with "The Book of Sequels" which among other things featured four parodies of "GWTW" as might have been written by joyce Carol Oates, Alice Walker, Tama Janowitz, and Erica Jong.
A brief quote from "The Scarlet Fanny by Erica Jong": "Lawdy, Scarlett. Ya'll sho' do git y'seff hopped up obah dem menfolks. Dat ol' unresolb'd relationship wib yo' daddy sho' be messin' yo up good!"
On May 27th, 1934 an elemental force entered the world and the world will never be the same. Best Birthday Wishes and many, many years of health and happiness to you, Harlan.
Justin - man, if you're starting to have fantasies of having an award-winning Chicago-based hyphenated-adjectived journalist as your cabana boy, that should be a signal it's time to pour off the couch onto the floor and begin the long transition to solid matter again.
Everyone elsesses - realize it does take a certain negative capacity to understand why a battered woman (or a battered people) wouldn't just leave. Let's inform, by all means let's inform, but let's try to make our corrections gently and remember who it is we SHOULD be angry with.
John,
Thanks. I've been waiting for that book, since I have a very low opinion of both the writing and the history of "Gone With The Wind." Ah, parody - sweet bitter nectar.
FYI off the latest headlines on Yahoo.com
- A federal appeals court Friday lifted a lower court's
injunction against publication of ``The Wind Done Gone,'' a parody of
the Civil War classic ``Gone With the Wind.''
Just thought I'd let everyone in on this news.
Sheryl: even warrior women need to be wise.
It's easy to judge people when you haven't stood in their shoes let alone walk that proverbial mile.
All I know is that I am a woman who is not unfamiliar with fisticuffs. But I took as well as gave.
Live by the sword or gun and die by them too.
I'd rather be strong within than without.
Rambling like Free Women (thank the US Constitution and cultural practice) might be wont to do....
done now.
Regarding the Taliban's latest stupidity-the Taliban leaders are no different from the fanatical Khmer Rouge leaders who all but destroyed Cambodia. And like other extremist regimes, sooner or later they'll fall. We shouldn't be supporting them, even for humanitarian reasons. As for the women in Afghanistan, they need a written permission from a male relative and/or have to travel with a male relative-pretty damn hard if all the men in your family have been killed in the war-the religious police in that
country immediately look suspiciously at a woman traveling by herself-only a woman begging doesn't incur their wrath(unless of course she isn't veiled).
Maggie & Peg,
Another factor in trying to flee Taliban-controlled Afghanistan (which is almost all of it) is that the Taliban has instituted a severe "religious police" regime. It's very difficult to do anything out of the sight of these police. Is it possible to get out of Afghanistan? Probably. Exceeedingly difficult? Hell yeah. Perhaps not as bad as trying to escape North Korea, but not a walk in the park.
Also, the geographical constraints are considerable. Leaving aside the mountains, you have bordering countries that are in no mood to take in refugees (Pakistan, Tajisktan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Iran).
Hey Peg!
I do agree that leaving is preferrable. However, let's be realistic. Abuse victims are most at risk when they attempt to leave their abuser. Statistically speaking, the abuser is far more likely to kill his victim at that point in time.
Yet another reason Sheryl, that you do not know what you are talking about. And if you are specifically referring to the Taliban and Afghanistan - well, let's see, these people live in a mountainous country that has been devasted by war for years and years AND their country is currently undergoing a famine. There is very little food, water contamination is a rising problem, housing is a HUGE problem. Say you are a mother, or you have poor health or no supplies or any of several dozen other things - how, exactly, are you going to get out of Afghanistan over the mountains? And, assuming that you CAN get out, where, exactly, will you go? Pakistan? Where will you get a map? It is *very* easy to get lost in the mountains.
Maggie
In the US, abused people leaving their home certainly risk poverty and other problems, but I tend to have some sympathy with the "leave" argument (though I do not at all buy the "victims deserve it"). But there are many places or situations in which leaving is worse than staying. I think a good way to characterize the ability to leave is this:
you leave as long as doing so doesn't put your children/ dependents and yourself in more danger.
In many muslim-majority countries, a woman attempting to leave by herself could be subject to severe punishment, imprisonment, her children could be given back to the father, etc.
Peg
Sheryl,
The word "leave" is very easy to say. I'm sure it's never occurred to you that sometimes there is nowhere else to go.
"I don't care if it’s your apartment, the town, the state or the bloody country, pack up and fucking GO!"
I take your reference to leaving the country as a not so veiled reference to the Holocaust. This makes a good example:
By the late 1930's no Jew wanted to stay in Germany, but less than 500,000 Jews were able to leave German occupied countries before the Holocaust. 5.2 - 6 million Jews ultimately perished in the holocaust. Why?
"Why were so few refugees able to flee Europe prior to the outbreak of World War II?
"Answer: The key reason for the relatively low number of refugees leaving Europe prior to World War II was the stringent immigration policies adopted by the prospective host countries. In the United States, for example, the number of immigrants was limited to 153,744 per year, divided by country of origin. Moreover, the entry requirements were so stringent that available quotas were often not filled. Schemes to facilitate immigration outside the quotas never materialized as the majority of the American public consistently opposed the entry of additional refugees. Other countries, particularly those in Latin America, adopted immigration policies that were similar or even more restrictive, thus closing the doors to prospective immigrants from the Third Reich.
Great Britain, while somewhat more liberal than the United States on the entry of immigrants, took measures to severely limit Jewish immigration to Palestine. In May 1939, the British issued a "White Paper" stipulating that only 75,000 Jewish immigrants would be allowed to enter Palestine over the course of the next five years (10,000 a year, plus an additional 25,000). This decision prevented hundreds of thousands of Jews from escaping Europe.
"The countries most able to accept large numbers of refugees consistently refused to open their gates. Although a solution to the refugee problem was the agenda of the Evian Conference, only the Dominican Republic was willing to approve large-scale immigration. The United States and Great Britain proposed resettlement havens in under-developed areas (e.g. Guyana, formerly British Guiana, and the Philippines), but these were not suitable alternatives.
"Two important factors should be noted. During the period prior to the outbreak of World War II, the Germans were in favor of Jewish emigration. At that time, there were no operative plans to kill the Jews. The goal was to induce them to leave, if necessary, by the use of force. It is also important to recognize the attitude of German Jewry. While many German Jews were initially reluctant to emigrate, the majority sought to do so following Kristallnacht (The Night of Broken Glass), November 9-10, 1938. Had havens been available, more people would certainly have emigrated."
- From 36 Questions About the Holocaust
The Simon Wiesenthal Center
http://www.wiesenthal.com
In other words, they didn't leave because the country which since 1886 has claimed "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" is it's motto would not take them. Welcome to reality: sometimes there is nowhere to go, and isn't that a bitch?
Rick- I have not been posting lately because, since my retirement from America Online Inc. (who I cannot, regrettably, drag into court due to the fact that the labor laws in New Mexico are so draconian), I have been sitting around relaxing like a slug on a rose. Too immobile to live, too comfy to die. If I'm on the computer at all these days, I'm only selling something on ebay to help finance my new lifestlye- sitting by the pool, my transluscent skin baking to a crisp and flaking off in great chunks as I fritter away the afternoon. Once I grow bored, I somehow manage to sleaze over to the next pleasure spot, shedding one dollar bills faster than burnt skin cells as I buy mixed drinks from Alejandro the cabana boy, whilst reading the latest issue of Cosmo in the shade of the gazebo.
Plus I've started my summer courses, and I've been taking care of my college stuff for next semester. I always vaguely suspected that going away to college would be difficult, but I never expected it to be such a vicious Darwinian culling process, in which you are subjected to unsustainable levels of mental torment and distress. I see no reason for this kind of system to be in place. The only thing I can figure is that the undergraduate admissions and enrollment process just serves to make absolutely certain that rational, right-thinking people rip their volumes of paperwork to shreds and abandon the process in disgust, thus ensuring that all the degrees and important positions in society go to the twitching mental deficients- the ones who have no problem subjecting themselves to this perverse bureaucratic hazing ritual, then taking out ten grand in loans every semester and flinging the money like confetti into the outstretched hands of their tormentors. It explains a lot, don't you think?
I do have a bit more free time these days, so I thought I would sit down and do a little fiction writing. Unfortunately, my productivity meter still rests at 0. I sit here every night until my forehead bleeds (or until Conan O'Brien comes on) but nothing yet. Harlan, send me the address to the company in Iowa where you get all those ideas from. Or maybe I just need a hideous emotional trauma to rip a few chunks from the viscera and get the creative juices flowing. I work best when it's either the strychnine or the pen.
Now about this whole Taliban situation- I don't know why everybody is suddenly so up in arms over the Taliban's most recent maneuvers. The Taliban's activities have been widely reported in every domestic news source I'm familiar with. The Taliban isn't "going too far," they already went there a long time ago (from an American perspective at least, and certainly from a historical perspective). I guess they just weren't being quite despicable *enough* before this week? There is a sentence my history professor (Stephen J. Andrews, one hell of an instructor) has made me memorize, because of just how much it applies to our history as a species: "Nihil noum sub solis." That's Latin for, "Nothing new under the sun." I'm as disgusted as everyone else at the Taliban's behavior, but I'm not particularly surprised. Not at all surprised, in fact. And let's not forget that there are worse things going on in (to pick a troubled hot spot at random) central Africa.
In 1947, George Orwell wrote that a nuclear war leaving only a few hundred million survivors living on the land might be a `desirable outcome.’
J
Maggie-
Your summary of the issue did a very nice job of dislodging the simplistic arguments.
Sheryl -
I say this with all due respect and without as little rancor as I can possibly manage - you haven't the faintest idea what you're talking about. I agree that women should stand up for themselves and I agree that if women did, the world would be a far different and likely better place. However, we are all different. Some - men and women and children and dogs and cats and fish for crying out loud - are like you, aggressive and territorial. Some are not. From the moment of their birth, *some* *are* *not.* I come from a long line of strong willed and independent women and I am here to tell you that even you can fall for it. You think you won't. You think you're impervious, but I've seen it happen. My Grandma was strong enough to leave her alchoholic husband in order to protect her child. Living as a single mother was so terribly difficult back in the 30s that when a guy came along who could provide and seemed nice, she married him. He beat the crap out of her, her son and the two children they had together - one of whom was my mother. When her youngest child was 17, she kicked that sorry bit of scum out.
You and I are the product of a time and place where many people, primarily women, worked damn hard to see that not only do we have rights, but we're confident enough and economically capable of standing up for ourselves. My other Grandma remembers the first time her mother got to vote. You think about that. You think about it very, very hard.
In the meantime, do not EVER say again that ANYBODY DESERVES TO BE BEATEN TO A PULP. My mother was a child and did not. My Grandmother most certainly DID NOT! You gonna suggest next that women who get raped deserved that too?????
For the record - I've done a lot of volunteer work, I know what my family history is. I have 4 sisters. Every single one of their husbands has been told in no uncertain terms what that family history is and what I intend to do about any man stupid enough to abuse one of MY sisters.
Now, you want a clue? You go volunteer down to the women's shelter.
And quit making excuses for the abusers. Nobody stood next to them with a gun telling them that if they didn't beat somebody up they'd die. They get to be responsible for their own actions.
AGAIN, in as plain English as I can possible manage - VICTIMS OF ABUSE DID NOT EVER DESERVE IT. Every goddamn fucking asshole who can make a fist tells his victim it was all her fault. She MADE him do it.
S/HE DID NOT.
Maggie Budge
Joseph: Can I just say that as a woman, I am very nearly terminally sick and tired of these weak ass punk bitches who allow themselves to be victimized-and they do allow it, every human being who gets victimized allows it-being used as a political hobby horse? Jesus please us, if you don’t like the way you’re being treated, man, woman or dog, *leave*. I don’t care if it’s your apartment, the town, the state or the bloody country, pack up and fucking GO! And if you’re stubborn and just refuse leave, then knock the living shit out of the person who’s messing with you! That’s why God inspired Man to invent the aluminum baseball bat, get it?
Men are only the dominant force on this planet because on the whole and despite the strident exhortations of the NOW cows and their herds, the vast majority of women SIMPLY WILL NOT STAND UP and lay claim the place they’re entitled to at the table. Men fight and even sometimes die for the desire to control their particular piece of the world, and by our Mother in Heaven, women ought to be prepared to do the same, or be run over. Trust me, nobody oppresses my ass; they find themselves unhappy if they try, and I’m not anyone particularly special to be able to accomplish that. I just refuse to be controlled by “culture” or “politics” or any of the other buzzwords. Those words are nothing more than an excuse for letting a bully or an asshole get the better of you, and then taking the asshole’s inventory instead of your own. To plagiarize a phrase, NO EXCUSES! Either a woman stands up for herself and takes on the responsibility of making the world around her accept her as a human being, or she folds like a wet paper towel in the face of opposition, in which case she deserves whatever she gets, as far as I’m concerned. Better off dead than a wet paper towel. Men would stop messing with us as soon as they realized that killing us was ruining their sex lives.
Mr. Wyatt
Hey, we're still here. Personally, I'm just consuming some US literature - ie, The Red Badge Of Courage, for starters - for discussion.
Best regards
Jes
Ps. Don't know what UK news you all get in the US, but our Deputy Prime Minister punched out an egg-lobbing malcontent in the last week. It has only served to raise his standing; I leave you to consider this at you leisure.
Rick,
Sorry to be absent of late. I've been enjoying, if that's the word I want, a very busy May. Noticing we're but a week away from the glorious 27th (when everyone will surely be posting), I've begun to feel guilty, too. Hey, I'm sure we're all still here. But it's Springtime, and the birds are singing, the bees are stinging, the pollen is ravashing my nose, and all's overwrought with the world. Y'know?
--Alex
Just wanted to let everyone know that this month's issue of Cemetery Dance contains some moving tributes to the late Richard Laymon by Dean Koontz, Ed Gorman and others. Laymon, whether or not you agreed with his politics, was an all-around decent guy, an original stylist and entertaining horror writer. He will be missed.
Ah, yes. All about the drugs. Let's have our own freaking (and inhumane) domestic policy override our concerns about the violations of humans across the globe. Let's let our worry about production of some poppies destroy any chane we have to stop the mutilation and death of millions of women.
It makes me so angry that a veil of red falls across my eyes.
Sheryl and Joseph:
Well, I'll tell you what is most disturbing about this issue. It was our very own government who put helped these fascists' ascension to power. And they still are. Just read the following column:
http://www.latimes.com/news/comment/20010522/t000042732.html
Yep, like father like son. Dubya is doing all in his power to perpetuate his father's clumsy legacy.
Now that I was duped effectively into spouting off like a manic babbling inpatient I better post an explanation for my recent online ramblings before some "friends" show up at my door to drag me away:
When I came back to the office yesterday from lunch my computer monitor flashed the gaudy message across the screen: "I've taken over your computer. Check out your message machine when you get home. Harlan Ellison". Now I considered it might've been a prank but I ultimately wrote it off, knowing I'd talked about where I work online and that we have a website, and figuring Rick taught Harlan how to pull that off. Well, I just beat the confession out of a friend who'd used the Norton virus to fire off that message from his home pc. I'm tellin' ya, y'stoke too many bongs and you get too damn gullible...a retaliatory prank, however, WILL be awaiting him at home.
Joseph: I daresay a highly effective assassination squad could be every bit as effective as a missile. The only trouble is that there are far too many of these extremist clerics to make it a plausible solution. No, frankly, I say stop them by whatever means are necessary. I suppose I'm a reactionary hawk, but I keep thinking of the one million whose lives brought the end of WWII, saving the lives of the six or seven million it would have cost to keep fighting in the Pacific. Horrifying as it is to contemplate, and it *is* horrifying, it's better than the probable outcome if this continues. They've already had their Kristalnacht (I daresay I spelled that wrong) running around destroying every piece of statuary they can find. Must there be train schedules announced?
Of course, I've just learned, the color of the identification for religious minorities will be yellow.
Sheryl,
Well, I'd not go that far. Perhaps it's time to rescind Ford's executive order against assassination? Yeah, it's not the nicest thought I've ever had, but it's a lovely fantasy. Try and slip some people in, take out the self-appointed clerics, and go from there. Of course, that risks letting even more fanatic fools slip into power.
I just feel sorry for the Muslim faithful in Afghanistan who have to endure these nutcases. Talk about perverting someone's religion.
If anyone wants to send a message to your representatives, Yahoo! has a nifty tool for finding their addresses at:
http://politics.yahoo.com/
If you want to help the enslaved women of Afghanistan, a very helpful site is:
http://www.feminist.org/
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
Can I just encourage everyone on the board to immediately e-mail your congressional representatives on this? I believe the operative quote here is "Never again." I for one would vote for a first strike to get rid of the whole fanatical lot. We can't afford to be Chamberland's England; these people have to be stopped.
The Taliban forcing Hindus to wear identifying labels, this is some terrifying shit.
So, anyone want to re-live the beginnings of the Final Solution? Take a look at the latest Taliban insanity:
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010522/ts/afghanistan_hindus.html
Everyone except me probably already knew this, but the second AN EDGE IN MY VOICE tape collection is out:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1574534122
According to Amazon, it includes: "Midnight in the Sunken Cathedral," "Jeffty Is Five," "Prince Myshkin, and Hold the Relish," "The Resurgence of Miss Ankle-Strap Wedgie," "Anywhere But Here, With Anyone But You," "The End of the Time of Leinard," "In Lonely Lands," "Rat Hater" and one all-new story.
Well, of course, the S. McCorkle FRESH AIR won't be "live" even as played out webwise; all FRESH AIRs are taped, even when not eulogies.
Kristine K. Rusch, former PULPHOUSE partner, was editor of FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION for the better part of the '90s; Gordon Van Gelder has been editor for several years and now is publisher as well.
Susannah McCorkle will be getting a eulogizing performance-retrospective on the NPR program FRESH AIR on Friday; apparently she'd done a few concerts for the series, which, if one is not within antenna-shot of a public radio station which carries the show, can be heard live or archived at www.whyy.org.
Among her talents, apparently, was fiction-writing...had a story in one of the O. HENRY annuals, her NY TIMES obit noted.
Joseph - Milwaukee is a nifty town. Did you get a chance to check out the Safe House? It's a bar 'n' grill with an espionage motif. Lots of fun. Though I did notice the convenience store hours aren't, well, convenient.
Mitch
Rick: Why did it get quiet around these parts?
Come now. Reality check: Moi.
I have this comatose effect on people.
Just ask Mr. Ellison. Five seconds in my presence and he was given over to the bug wandering around his sweater.
Hey. It's just me.
Until next time. . .
David,
Honey! You been rejected by the best! Hold your head high and get creative on dey butts!
GO!
Uh, Rick?
If you're looking for something to occupy your time -- other than processing traffic on this bulletin board -- you might just finish formatting the commentary on _Stalking the Nightmare_ I e-mailed you ... oh, weeks and weeks ago ... and put it up live on Webderland (hint, hint).
On the other hand, some of the regulars here might actually try to read the damn thing and then it'd get REAL quiet around here.
Never mind.
David Loftus
(If anybody's keeping score, Harlan graciously turned me down by phone a week ago, Helen Gurley Brown gave me the brushoff by letter the middle of last week, and Dr. Ruth Westheimer called me up this morning to pass along a regretful "no." Rejection has never been so much fun.)
Echoing your comments, cookie. I was truly bummed when hearing of her suicide. Voice like an angel...
She was just hitting her stride, her latest album among her best. Great song choices, talented musicians.
The world is a bit more cold today.
Rob,
Whoah! Back away from the bong, my friend....
Big Brother just poked me in the eye at work...CIA, FBI, NSA, HE...yer all in the same alphabet soup! Bad enough I can't find privacy at home, but when you can't find it at the office...well, shit!
So, Rick taught you that one, right?
Yer pleasantly victimized customer,
Rob
Big Brother just poked me in the eye at work...CIA, FBI, NSA, HE...yer all in the same alphabet soup! Bad enough I can't find privacy at home, but when you can't find it at the office...well, shit!
So, Rick taught you that one, right?
Yer pleasantly victimized customer,
Rob
Actually, Mr. Rogers read the lyrics to "It's You I Like" as part of his address. Good address too: fairly short, with some good stuff about being true to yourself and remembering that you can be a good human.
The obituary of the day for me was that the man who helped shift Chicago over to the 911 system died over the weekend at 59. There are a few things that convince me that some people know what they are doing, and the 911 emergency system (999 for our friends in Britain) is one of them. Especially since Chicago's previous fire reporting numbers was apparently something like FI9-9173. Sheesh. Who know how many lives have been saved by putting in an easily remembered emergency number?
Mr. Rogers? From da hood!!??
Cool!
I sing one of Mr. Rogers's songs, "It's You I Like." I swing a little harder than Fred (though I admit I learned alot about swing from listening to John Costas play the piano and celeste in the background of the show. Seriously. I watched the show well into high school just for the music. Maybe not everybody's cuppa, but if you're a childlike jazz musician, it has an appeal!)
On a sad note, I don't know if any of you are into Susannah McCorkle, but she commited suicide this weekend. Depression sucks. She was one of my very favorite singers: sang in tune and made the words speak to your heart as well as your mind. She was smart and really, really fine. Man, it just hits me hard.
There's a loving thread about her at jazzcorner. you-know-what and the New York Times and several other obituaries are available on the web.
Most people have probably never heard of this accomplished singer and scholar, but I can't let her pass without mourning and remembrance.
Thanks for listening.
Personally, I was in Milwaukee attending my youngest sister's graduation from Marquette. Some observations, seeing as my wife and I had never really strolled around the city before:
a) Milwaukee has some surprisingly nice buildings in it's downtown, and a good selection of restaurants.
b) Marquette University is a rather nice campus.
c) I know Harley-Davidson is based in Milwaukee, but I was unprepared for the amount of exceedingly nice Harleys parked on the streets.
d) Milwaulkee has the nicest wide streets of any downtown I've seen yet.
e) Miller Park, from the outside, is lovely.
f) Fred Rogers was the commencement speaker. It's really interesting to see just how much affection there is for the man and his work among almost all age groups. Even my exceedingly dour brother was smiling.
g) What kind of a Walgreens, located next to a college campus, closes at 7 on a Saturday?
h) I found the warnings about the neighborhood that MU is located in to be a little over-the-top. I'd compare it to Edgewater - not great, but certainly not dangerous to anyone with basic sense.
i) Anyone know which college a professor would have graduated from if he was wearing yellow (or gold, perhaps) robes? I never did figure it out during the commencement.
j) Okay, Latin readers. Our contest for the day: Without look for the answer on Marquette's web site, tell me what their motto, "Numen Flumenque," means.
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
Rick:
Come on, dude, after the heavy duty discussions that have taken place in the last weeks, methinks every webderlander is taking a much deserved break in order to recharge our intellectual batteries.
That and the Memorial Day weekend is right around the corner.
Ahhhhh, those lazy, hazy summers…
Just making sure this thing is still on - why'd everyone get so, ummm, quiet all of a sudden?
Boy, oh, boy: You wander off for a few weeks to write, come back, and heeeeeere's Mr. Ellison. Again. Wonderful.
Pulphouse? Yeah. I remember after classes I'd head to the university library and read through all the volumes they had for Pulphouse. (At least I THINK it was Pulphouse.) Nicely bound volumes and much of them, if I have this right, were edited by, oh, heck, what's her name? I think she writes and/or edits now for The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction: Kathryn Kristin Rusch? (I never keep those three names straight.)
Good efforts, those volumes. Nice collections. Wish I could lay hands on the complete efforts, but it'll cost a penny or two now.
Anyway, just popped over to this message board after diddling with my brand new message boards. Shameless self-promo comin' now: Feel free to drop me a line and I'll aim you in the direction of my ghetto in cyberspace.
Again, wonderful to see Mr. E back. He brightens the world wherever he is.
Until next time. . .
There's an ad for the 50th E.E. in May Locus from Morpheus, stating due May 2001. Also, SF Chronicle has an article on Internet Piracy & HE (June issue)
Dear Mr. Ellison
Wow, thanks for contacting Dean Wesley Smith for me. He e-mailed me with a refund offer. I couldnt be happier about that, although my original notice on this website was purely out of curiosity as th this "lost" project.Whether he refunds my money or not, I'm keeping the Robert Sheckley books. (in 1990 Pulphouse sent a set of 6 Sheckley books to "patient subscribers" as a way of thanking us for hanging on so long)
Joseph - having dredged up the memory of the book myself, I was fully intending to pop into town tomorrow and get myself a copy (my school copy long since lost to old father time and teenage carelessness)... I could have mailed it to you on loan. Oh well, hope you enjoy it, anyway! I'm sure you'll love it.
Best
Jes
PS. Going back to the Electric Palace, I'm reminded by family that it was shut for years until a refurbishment in 1981; I therefore couldn't have seen Superman there in '79. I think I may be thinking, then, of the god-awful comic pratfalls of Superman III...
Yeah, but so do the White Sox. And what is up with all the freekin' Cub night games this week and next? Are they determined to make my ride home on the bus up Clark a living hell?
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. Yes, I'm doing busy work at the office today. Why do you ask?
All is again right in this world and beyond. The Cubs suck.
Oh, and Jes, I noticed that Ken Loach (who I'll freely admit has not crossed my path as a director before), had his latest release, "Bread and Roses," profiled on Roger Eberts' weekly movie show over here. It got high praise for being a realistic look at janitorial workers and invisible (at least to us office workers) lives they lead. I do intend to see that when it opens here in Chicago.
Jes,
Thanks for the recommendation! "Kestrel" appears to be unavailable in the US, but God bless the Internet, for I have already ordered it through Amazon.co.uk. I could have sworn that I've heard of this title before, but I know I've neither read it or seen the movie. Perhaps I'm simply confusing it with the "Kestrel" written by Lloyd Alexander.
Joseph - Hey, interesting request! I need to go away and rack my brains a bit, but off the top of my head, A Kestrel For A Knave, by Barry Hines. It's harsh, unsentimental and very, very moving - a day in the life of a young boy in a Yorkshire mining town. It's a marvellous depiction of the brutality of young life 'up north'. Some people may remember the film version - simply called Kes - directed by Ken Loach.
Anyway, if you can get a copy, read it. I don't think you could get a more 'British' secondary school read...
Best,
Jes
Hey, Jes, how about a recommendation of a British novel that we USA-educated folks may not have read, but you were assigned in school? I need something to read while I wait for the next Anita Blake novel (yeah, I know - they're my guilty pleasure).
...And if anyone wants to see the Electric Palace, here's a handy link:
http://users.quista.net/farnell/elec_palace.htm
I haven't thought about that place in years. I remember seeing Superman there in 1979. Blimey.
Jes
Hey all
Well, thanks to the literary recommendations of this message board I'm now snowed under with reading material. Whilst I'm picking up some of the titles Joseph, Colleen and Sheryl have cited as part of the US HS curriculum (and thus stuff I've missed, being a Brit), I've just got Red Badge of Courage and... the UK reprinting of Fowler's End by Mr. G. Kersh.
Never read Kersh before, so I'm looking forward to this; I've just skimmed Moorcock's intro (where he resists telling us how scintillant the book is, by way of "I won't tell you about...", as unreserved praise is inevitably the death-knell for literary works). And here's the weird shit:
There's a cinema on the cover. Not just any cinema, though, but the incredibly ancient, tiny fleapit from my home town in Harwich, Essex: The Electric Palace, allegedly the UK's oldest movie house.
Now, if that ain't fate telling me to read this book, I don't know what is.
Best regards
Jes
Jes
Dear Mr. Ellison
Thanks for the information..Ive been waiting for them to ship that damn thing for over a decade. They never refunded my money either. Oh well..at least I know that I'm not the only one who did not receive a copy... even you dont have one.
Mike:
Nothing happened to it. It didn't happen. Maybe some day.
Good friends, and otherwise prudent, at Pulphouse, though admonished NOT to announce it until it was finished, assembled, priced out, and ready to go to the printer...jumped the gun. Advertised it. Had to return a lot of money. Got out of the publishing game. Became wealthy and talented and much-published authors. End of story. For the nonce.
Anyone ever seen the "Ellison Under Glass" book..the one in a wooden box with the glass window? From Pulphouse Publishing, about 1990?
If anyone has any info...let me know, I'd love to hear what happened to it.
The debate about art vs. craft is especially interesting to me. I feel, from my own experience, that a lot of would-be professional writers keep getting rejections because they don't understand structure. Structure is rarely, if ever, discussed in creative writing classes. Structure is why Harlan and Hemingway's work is so economically written; good writers know how to present a scene and pare it down to its essentials.
Think about it. Most literate people can turn an eloquent phrase but if you don't build the proper channel, the water won't flow.
And for those of us on the left coast, the Audobon elephant folio can also be seen at the Huntington Library in Pasadena, CA. I think they turn a single page everyday. And the engravings are exquisite.
C.
David,
It is Christies who is handling the auction for the original manuscript of "On The Road." I saw it when it was on display at the Christies offices in the Hancock building. Not my favorite novel, but I had to at least see it once in my life. Interesting, but I preferred last spring, when Christies had on display an Audubon "Bird of North America" elephant folio set that was going up for auction. Now seeing the beauty and skill of those art pieces was definitely worth it.
I don't care what there reasoning is in showing off the stuff before auction (c'mon, the pople who are really interested in this stuff don't need a public exhibition), I'm just grateful to have seen them.
Regards,
Joseph
Speak of the devil ... I heard on public radio this morning that one of the big auction houses is getting ready to sell the original, 50-year-old manuscript for _On the Road_.
As I understand it, Kerouac glued or taped a bunch of sheets of paper together in one long continuous strip and typed up the story in one three-week-long binge. (Hence, Capote's sneer, "That's not writing, that's typing.")
Christie's or Sotheby's, whichever it was, is expecting bids up to $1.5 million or more....
It *isn't* hyper-realism.... ::sigh:: And I even proof read that one...
Recommendations while surfing:
http://www.dictionary.com
and its companion:
http://www.thesaurus.com
Don't surf unassisted. It can be dangerous.
As to art and the armchair archaeologist: I find Art (with a capital "A") to be largely contextual. The talent (for both the artist and their audience) is to be able to see things in their context or out of their context as is appropriate. I agree that 2,000 years from now, the contents of my cupboards will not be Art... to *me*. But to the world that exists in that future, how rare and ritualized will the idea of a service for four be? The fact that I have matching salad plates and enamelled chopsticks from K-Mart(tm) means very little to people today. But take it out of context. Anything is possible.
I have recently discovered Dr. Von Hagen's Plastinates. I won't bore you with the details, just type plastination into any search engine. Suffice it to say, what others find gruesome and offensive, some blasephemous and sacrilegious, I find to be very artistic and moving. It all depends on your context. Hell, there's a elephant that paints. She even chooses her own colors in her pallette and paints colors representational of her environment. Now it is hyper-realism, that's for sure. But for her, is it any less art? Hmm?
C.
Maggie -
Hell, I had a freshman English teacher who had us read the Ox-Bow Incident, The Dogs of War, The Odessa File and Marathon Man, along with the usual suspects. Great class.
As for comedy acting, I'm 100% with you. Note that the last actor to win for a comedic role at the Academy Awards was Kevin Kline for "A Fish Called Wanda" in 1988, and before that I believe it was Lee Marvin for "Cat Ballou" in 1965. Slight aside: there's a great Lee Marvin joke in a Simpsons episode where Homer and Bart rent what they think is a shoot-em-up Western. Unfortunately, they pick up the Clint Eastwood musical "Paint Your Wagon." Best line, as Homer is wondering what's up with all the singing: "There's Lee Marvin! We're saved! He's always drunk and ornery!"
Joseph: Wish I had gone to YOUR high school! ;-)
Cookie: While I like a number of Kerouac's books, I don't know that they are great because I don't know that they will hold up. Shakespeare has lasted so long not just because he had a great way with words, but because he was able to speak to the universal in human emotions.
Sheryl: I think that art speaks to the universal - I wouldn't have Guernica hanging in my house, but I *do* think that it's Art and at it's finest as it speaks to despair and horror and when you look at it, you can feel it. OTOH, I can look at Joyce's forays into stream of consciousness sans punctuation and be impressed with the craft and still loathe it. An interesting experiment to be sure, but I think that it's self indulgent BS. Pure ivory tower crap. And, IMO, if you have to be educated to appreciate it, then it *isn't* art.
Regarding Harlan Ellison - he clearly DOES know the rules - and knows them so exquisitely that he doesn't so much break them as rearrange them. One of the things I admire most about his work is the precision of his writing.
I do happen to think that Lysistrata is Art. Both from what we know of the history wherein it was written and this - it's still funny. People tend to think that ART can't be funny, that it must be serious and true. Part of this is that truly great comedy looks effortless. Well folks, I am here to tell you from personal experience that comedy is most emphatically NOT easy. Any actor will tell you that comedy is usually a LOT harder to arrange and either you have a gift for comic timing or you do not. Rarely is that a learned skill. It's the weirdest thing, but the Academy RARELY gives Oscars for a comedy, and yet it's the most difficult thing to do and the most precious. I personally think that producing excellent comedy is a primary duty and function of the theatrical arts. We NEED comedy.
Oh, and Sheryl - there are cultures all over the world that do not play with dolls. Cultures where children are just small adults, and not children as we know them. Dolls are not a universal human expression. In reference to the little figurines that are found all over the world in archaelogical digs - some of the current thought on their original purposes is based on observed usage in explorers' reports and anthropological studies done in the last 100 - 200 years. It is possible that a number of them *could* indeed be toys of some sort - although I would venture to guess that this could only be true in digs into very prosperous communities. They may NOT be for religious purposes either, but I think that the likelihood that they are all dolls is pretty slim.
Maggie
Wallace -
God I read all the E. Nesbit books I could find when I was about 8-9. “The Story of the Amulet” as far as I can remember was the last in a trilogy of which the first two books were: “Five Children and It” and “The Phoenix and the Carpet”. Other fantastic children’s books by her are “The Enchanted Castle” and “The Magic City”. “The Book of Dragons” is a funny series of stories which updates dragons to the turn of the century. She wrote another realistic trilogy of stories about the Bastable family: “The Story of the Treasure-Seekers”, “ Would-be-Goods”, and “The New Treasure-seekers”. Some may remember Mike Moorcock’s Oswald Bastable novels - this he where he appropriated the character from. And anyone who’s ever been confined to home during an English bank-holiday will at one time or another seen the jolly decent film made out of her book “The Railway Children” - “Let us wave our petticoats at them.”
A lot of Nesbit’s books are online from Project Gutenberg at :
http://www.indiana.edu/cgi-bin-ip/letrs/vwwplib.pl#nesbit
An author in the same vein of ingenious, humorous children’s fantasy is Diana Wynne Jones
Maggie: At least you have power for the air conditioning! Seriously, though I would agree that art occasionally occurs strictly via talent, a couple of people I’ve been arguing with don’t; their theory is that without conscious craft, it isn’t be art; art has to be somehow deliberate, and that talent isn’t required, it’s just a bonus.
I’m not convinced I buy that at all. A piece of the argument we’re having stems from the whole ‘potsherds culture’ that’s prevalent in many archeology circles. However, I don’t buy that every piece of pot they find in the ground qualifies as art, do you? I think it must usually be the case that it’s the time frame equivalent of Corningware. I mean, really now: If someone 3,000 years from now digs up my house and finds all kinds of broken shards of stuff, etc., it’s not going to be great art that they’re finding, it’s the damn plates! I’ve got maybe a half dozen decorative vases; they’re not art either. I have exactly one “artistic” pot, and I got that useless thing as Christmas gift from an aunt and uncle who haven’t seen me in 10 years. It’s pretty, but if you crunched all that stuff into fragments, how would you determine between that and my Blue Willow dishes, or my cut glass bud vase which was artistically significant to me? I think that the whole “artistic pottery” thing is seriously flawed, and if that’s true, then the whole concept of art as the highest level of craft that we’ve been arguing is called into question.
I am currently extremely unpopular with the armchair archeologist. (Of course, I also ragged on his ‘household idols’ theory as part of this whole thing; my personal suspicion is that all those small little figurines they find all over the world in every culture are really the frame equivalent of baby dolls…he just hates me. But aren’t I right? Don’t little girls normally play with dolls? Why the hell else would they be EVERY PLACE??)
As for knowing the rules before you can break them-who’s making them? Or remaking them, I should say. How often does innovation spring up completely outside the rule book, and how often does it come from conscious breaking of rules? I think talent tends to try ignore the rules, because it sees its own vision, and attempts to create its own path to that vision, outside any conventional rule book. I think Stanislavski was an innovator of that kind-he saw what he wanted his theatre to be, and made up a new toolkit to get there with. Of course since it worked, that toolkit is now a big part of the ‘craft of acting.’ But there are others who both utilize and challenge established rules-Harlan’s one of them-to discover what’s possible outside them. Is that expansion of craft or a talent?
To sort of come back to Joseph’s list (I got Lysistrata in HS too, AND Frogs!) Aristophanes came up in this argument, as well, under the question of whether he’s the Periclean equivalent of Neil Simon, or of Gilligan’s Island. And thereupon comes in the question of craft again, because no matter how ridiculous it looks, Gilligan’s Island is a pretty well crafted little show-not anything remotely like art, and not even really relying on much talent IMO, but still, I think it’s well-crafted commedia. What of Aristophanes? How do you judge something you’ve got no contemporary comparison for?
My position in this shouting match is that Art possesses something beyond either simple mastery of craft or blind talent, or any combination thereof; an element of Truth, if you will, that surpasses the rules of Craft or the inspiration of Talent. I’ve been arguing-about half vainly, with the hard heads-that Art, (as opposed to art) is internally coherent, and therefore not subject to changing rules, but recognizable under any circumstance, because it’s anchored to Truth at some level.
I’m told I’m being harsh and elitist, that Art is defined by each society as it chooses to view it, and that by my rules, some of the great works of mankind are no more than craftsmanship. (But then we’re back to Aristophanes again…and what about dolphins? or E.T.'s?)
My last comment was that the application of contemporary values (meaning contemporary to the work, not current values) to judging a work was the difference between art with a lowercase /a/, and Art with a capital /A/.
Is there a difference, do y’all think, or is that just a Platonic conceit on my part?
They’re still coming for me, I need help….
In many ways, Kerouac's work was anti-craft. Kerouac wrote in a stream of consciousness inspired by Catholic mysticism, Jazz, and Buddhism. There are moments of brilliance in Kerouac, and sometimes, you just wish he'd make a concrete observation without trilling or honking on it.
I think Kerouac's lack of artifice led to an improvisatory style, a unique voice, rather than discernable and elegantly executed forms. I have read much Kerouac. He flows like a musician. Some nights are better than others.
Sign me--
one big romantic Dharma Bum
Thanks, David. Colleen posted a definition and context of this "interesting" term, but I appreciate your effort as well. :)
I just started reading the most interesting book last night. It's called "The Story of the Amulet" by Edith Nesbit. I'm pretty positive that it was written for children way back in the 1890s, but it was so charming that I had trouble putting it down to get back to my word processor. I wouldn't say I'm easily amused, but the story was so non-threatening and non-preachy like so many modern works can be that I liked it.
Wallace Cass
http://blyre.tripod.com/CM/
Wallace asked about the meaning of the word "poltroon" at the start of the weekend, and I didn't notice any response.
It's a somewhat old, even archaic insult -- dates from at least 1529 -- that I think I used to see a lot more in books published before the 1960s. Means "craven; a spiritless coward; characterized by complete cowardice."
Rule of thumb, guys: keep a dictionary within reach of your computer, whether you're composing something or surfing the 'net.
Oh yeah, Sheryl asked about distinguishing between talent, craft, and art, and whether one might measure the "artistic merit" of a work by gauging the amount of talent and craft.
In the first place, I can't accept the initial premise. Talent, craft, and art are certainly interrelated, but I reject the notion that they can be regarded as entirely separate. That makes about as much sense to me as trying to weight the relative factors of logic, emotion, and instinct in any given complex human activity.
One can talk about these aspects separately, but that's for convenience. I don't think they are entirely separable, and therefore it is impossible to weigh them separately.
For example, I can easily imagine a work that displays tremendous craft and talent, but would be both utterly uninteresting to you or me, and therefore largely devoid of art (which, for the moment, I'll define as "magic, imagination, and inspiration"). Raymond Chandler disparaged Agatha Christie's books for something of this reason, I think (read his selected letters), and in his compelling, ghastly alcoholic memoir, the Canadian novelist Donald Newlove castigates the later novels of the largely-forgotten John P. Marquand in these terms. (Newlove's stories about himself and a few other better-known writers like Hemingway, Fitzgerald, Kerouac, and Lowry make for memorable reading, if you can find a copy of this book, _Those Drinking Days_.)
Speaking of Kerouac, I suspect not a few people would say his books MIGHT display art, or talent, but not much craft. Capote certainly thought so. (I've never read Kerouac, myself....)
Were a well-read bunch here. Joseph, I'm glad you teach "A Rose for Emily"-one of my favorites(the fact that it was assigned reading no less than 15 times during my school years may account for my fondness). So what would everyone recommend from the "Ellison canon" for high school reading? I'd nominate
Memos from Purgatory, Spiderkiss, the Deathbird collection, and
"Soft Monkey".
Maggie-
I went to Loyola Academy, a Jesuit high school in Wilmette, Illinois (before anyone trots out the North Shore cliches, I grew up in Mt. Prospect). I had a teacher who could (a) point out the issues this play had for the Greeks and (b) show us just how funny the play is.
As for Ibsen, I don't read or speak Norwegian, so I have to go with what we have here in English. I can't speak for the original play, but I think it comes across quite well in the translations I've read.
Regards,
Joseph
Hey Joseph - WHERE did you go to school???? Lysistrata?? In HS??? I can just about make a case for Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead (although I didn't lay eyes on it until I was in college majoring in Theatre), but if there's a really good translation of Ibsen, I've yet to see it. Had a prof my first year in college who idolized Ibsen, as a consequence, I believe I have all of his plays.
Books from my years in HS which no one seems to have listed yet -
Animal Farm
Lord of the Flies (I really hated this book)
Red Skies at Morning
I also read Gone With The Wind, The Count of Monte Cristo, Les Miserables, etc. in HS - we had to read from a list and then write book reports. Thousand pages a quarter. Read the biggest books on the list so that I'd only have to write one report! Betcha didn't know that GWTW has 1024 pages now didja? ;-)
Sheryl - I had a dance teacher who used to say that you had to know what the rules were before you could break them. I think that art can exist without craft, but I think that it's rare. Talent generally seeks to express itself and with time and practice becomes better and better and more expert in whatever medium.
Ok - it was 94 stinking degrees here yesterday, and 95 today - which means that the lilacs are going to be a 4 day event this year instead of our more usual 2-3 weeks. I am NOT ready for summer in the middle of SPRING!
Maggie
Sheryl,
Sheesh. I look at your list and think: "How did I forget those?"
Let me add a novel and some short stories:
The Chosen (which I was amused to be assigned three times over six years of Roman Catholic high school and college). One of my personal top five novels.
"The Rocking Horse Winner"
"The Yellow Wallpaper"
"The Story of an Hour"
"The Bear"
"To Set A Fire"
"A Rose For Emily"
Tons, deservedly, of Flannery O'Connor, who my mother incidentaly met a month before her untimely death. "The Misfit" and "A Good Man Is Hard To Find" come to mind.
Let me add some stuff I even have teaching units for!
To Kill a Mockingbird
Something Wicked This Way Comes
Death of a Salesman
The Miracle Worker
The Glass Menagerie
Invisible Man
White Fang
Bless Me, Ultima
The Pearl
Of everything on all the lists, I “The Princess Bride” is the most fun. I know *I* had a helluva good time teaching it!
The Odyssey’s one of those that if you COMBINE it with the mythology, and do some reading out loud turns out to be a lot of fun as well most of the time.
Colleen,
I agree that the Odyssey does require some basic background in Greek history. It's more of a senior or college level text. It does, however, have the advantage of being a rousing adventure story, and it sounds great read out loud.
Jes,
You're correct that there is a certain amount of American-centric novels (not that there is anything wrong with that). Of course, when something like The Color Purple, which is easily understandable to a high school student, falls into your lap you tend to try and spread the word to as many people as possible.
The Brontes? I can just picture myself writing savage papers on them...thank goodness I never had to read them in high school. Personal taste, of course.
The Natural is indeed a novel about baseball, in the same matter that Star Wars is a movie about spaceflight. It's more the medium for Bernard Malamud's brilliant musings on everything from the natur of celebrity to what it means to be male (but not in a condescending Robert Bly kind of manner). Brilliant novel, which unfortunately most people know as a soft-focus, misty-eyed, "Terms of Endearment"-like movie with Robert Redford. Huge waste of actors. Just remember this: it's a hell of a stomach bleed to show THROUGH YOUR SHIRT.
If you end up looking for more Malamud, find a short story by him entitled "The Magic Barrel." *Shiver* Creepiest story ever to involve a matchmaker.
As a current bookseller/librarian, here's a few more now on American H.S. reading lists-
All Quiet on the Western Front
Bluest Eye/Beloved
Fahrenheit 451
Hobbit/The Lord of the Rings
Odyssey
Separate Peace
A major problem with assigning the Odyssey is that many students
have no background in Greek history or mythology, so they get really frustrated with this book- I toss them a copy of Bulfinch's or Edith Hamilton's Mythology & point out the relevant sections to read. Another good choice for these students is Rosemary Sutcliffe's book The Wanderings of Odysseus.
Joseph - Fascinating (and thanks for taking the time to list 'em all). To be honest, there are more similarities than differences - to be expected, I guess - with Shakespeare, Dracula, Brave New World, The Time Machine, Mice and Men, and so on and so on. Indeed, it seems the few differences are glaring in their absence from UK secondary school reading lists (at least as I remember it - I'm 28).
As facile as this may seem, these differences do seem to be peculiarly American; I'm thinking specifically here of Last of the Mohicans, Ethan Frome, Great Gatsby, The Color Purple, Tom Sawyer, Farewell to Arms, The World According to Garp... and The Natural, which I confess I am utterly ignorant of. Would I be a million miles south of the mark to suggest it involves baseball or some other sport?
UK secondary schools tend to lean towards canonical British literature - a huge amount of nineteenth century works; plenty of George Eliot, the Brontes, Austen and so on. Ibsen, when I was at school, would have been met with bafflement.
And you got the Princess Bride, too? Jeez, I love that book!
Best regards
Jes
Jes,
Hmm...the USA high school canon. Let me jot down a few titles from my bookstore days and from my own high school years, a decade ago, that stood out as popular choices for high schools to assign:
The Grapes of Wrath
The Red Pony
Of Mice and Men
The Joy Luck Club
Shakespeare's Tragedies and Histories - very few Comedies.
Iliad
Ender's Game
Beowulf
The Crucible
The Divine Comedy
Last of the Mohicans
Lysistrata
Ethan Frome
Dracula
Les Miserable
Farewell to Arms
The Ox-Bow Incident
The Great Gatsby
Call of the Wild
The World According to Garp
The Trial
The Stranger
The Plague
Oedipus Rex (and sometime the whole Oedipus cycle)
The Color Purple
A Doll's House
Moby Dick
Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man
Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead
The Time Machine
The Natural
The Princess Bride (no, I'm not joking)
Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Crime and Punishment
East of Eden
Adventures of Tom Sawyer
The Catcher In The Rye
Life on the Mississippi
Canterbury Tales
As I Lay Dying
Brave New World
Joseph: As soon as I've waded through my current readng list - including the aforementioned The House Next Door, I'll devour 'Red Badge...'. Bear with me and I'll post my thoughts on it as soon as humanly possibly.
Colleen: I'll hunt this down too! I must admit I'm fascinated too see what is considered essential reading/canon as far as American education is concerned - or even what is simply considered to be true American classical literature.
So much to read, so little time.
Best to all
Jes
I would be most awfully curious as to the boards responses to a rather raucous debate I got into last night at coffee.
The premise is that talent, craft and art are interrelated, but entirely separate things. The question is, is it possible to determine the “artistic merit” of a work, whatever it might be, by measuring the relative amounts of craft and talent that went into the making of it?
This sounded uncomfortably like a Pritchard’s Poetry Graph to me, but there was great contention at the table. Some even argued that it was dependent upon form as to whether such a scale could work. Any thoughts?
I just noticed http://www.e-reads.com is now open and sells, amongst other things, several Harlan Ellison eBooks. Hooray!
Jes, if you can find it, read also "Soldier's Heart" by Gary Paulsen. Although written for teens, it is an excellent Civil War novel that everyone should read.
Jes,
Please do let me know what you think of "Red Badge." It's pretty much compulsery high school reading over here, and is a very interestingly moody novel. Also by Stephen Crane is a brilliant short story titled "On The Boat," about a lifeboat from a shipwreck. Great sparse writing.
Mornin' all,
Joseph - Red Badge of Courage is about the US Civil War, yes? Which might explain why it's not so readily known over here in the UK. I'm popping over to Waterstones at lunchtime to get it... I am now very intrigued by Don Wanderley's "ghost story where the ghost doesn't actually appear" comment...
Sheryl - Yeah, I have On Writing, and you're absolutely right, it's a marvellous companion piece to DM, although I was surprised at how 'light' it was. (If you can call King's near-death memorial 'light'). It also has me religiously flensing excess adverbs from anything I write....
Best to all
Jes
(sorry, Rick)
"Can you say 'intellectual property'? Good! I knew you could. Now, keep your hands off of my property unless you ask me politely if you can use it and I say yes. Then I want you to use it the right way, okay?"
Why does this all seem so simple to me? Maybe *I'm* simple!
Also bummin' about Douglas Adams and Perry Como. I love to hear singers who actually sing rather than rasping, screeching, cooing, groaning, or whatnot. Pop music comes and goes but a pleasant voice is a blessing to the ears.
babelfish... altho' babefish... hmmm.
C.
We finished off a whole bottle of Maker's Mark last night.
..to ravenous bugblatter beasts' of Traal.
..to babefish.
..to knowing where your towel is.
..to pangalactic gargleblasters and gold bricks wrapped in a slice of lime.
..to fjords!
..to .. well you get the idea.
Signed,
really effing depressed now.
C.
Douglas Adams
*Sigh*
The first real comedy novel I ever read was "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy." It was so, so....cheerful. So much sarcasm and wit packed into such a lovely package. It embodied, wierdly, the best and the worst of all of us.
Just noticed that there is actually an obituary for Mr. Adams on MacCentral, since Adams was a lifelong Mac user. The corners we touch in our lives.
I'll freely admit that when my wife told me last night that Mr. Adams had died, I just stared at the wall for a while. He was one of those authors that shaped me. He taught me comedic writing. He taught me how thin of a knife's edge satire is (remember, I'm 28 - I read him before Swift and others).
It's sad, really. You want to know the three authors who shaped me as a teenager (in the sense that they raised so many questions that they forced me think harder, and to want to think harder)? Harlan Ellison, Douglas Adams, and Mike Royko.
All Chicagoans,
I received a fascinating photo book by Peter Elliott for my birthday last week, entitled "Park Life." It's photos of Chicago White Sox fans in the summer of 1977. Great photographs. I had nearly forgotten how cheerfully dilapitated Comiskey Park was.
Alex,
Peter Straub is from Milwaukee? Damn. For some reason I always thought he was from London. Must be his Gothic style of writing that threw me. Come to think of it - the Violent Femmes, who are my definition of Gothic writing in music, are from Wisconsin. What's that song of theirs about murder in a cabin?
Jes,
I'm right on the same page with you on DM. Great overlook on horror fiction and other media. After your read "Red Badge of Courage," do look for the movie version with Audie Murphy (the WWII hero). Quite a good B&W version.
Sheryl,
For customizable shelves, you can't do worse than Skandia, a Sacandinavian wood shelving system that the Container Store carries. I'm assembling one right now, and they're strong as hell, and come in a huge variety of sizes. Very light, too. Great for any design of shelves you might like.
PLEASE READ:
I was chatting with Harlan about the case today and our discussion and he mentioned he's going to give a deposition on the 22nd. He said it's possible that Mr. Razler, if not an attorney himself, is sounding out arguments against AOL so they can be refuted.
Regardless, I feel with the deposition imminent and the case moving on that it's highly likely this board and other places on the net will be searched for such arguments. Therefore it would be prudent for us not to give AOL any ammunition.
So, if possible, let's close this debate for now and leave it to the folks on Usenet. There are plenty of places to go to argue free speech and net piracy....
An unusual take on “Ghost Story” is this review by “Putney Tyson Ridge, PhD” at http://www.net-site.com/straub/pt_gho.htm. I assume this is a spoof site, possibly by Straub himself, since it’s hard to imagine anyone being so self-conceited and aggrandising as to include: ”That to this day Straub fails publicly to acknowledge his selfless friend's lifelong assistance, much less to pay him the simple tribute of a dedication to one of his many books, is of no consequence to Professor Ridge. Professor Ridge does not require the embarrassment of further accolades. Also, Professor Ridge has long been educated in the harmless, helpless selfishness of authors and their ilk.” The whole website has much of the flavour of a mini-"Pale Fire".
I picked up a copy of Siddons’ “The House Next Door” on Friday and would have to recommend it as well. What is interesting is how many of these horror novels of the 70s have upper-middle class/nouveau riche settings. Siddons, though, is much better at giving them a voice and a conscience than most of these case, (where I think there in an indulgence of lifestyle pornography and base schaudenfreude when they get what’s coming to ‘em) which is why “House Next Door” works. If you can find them Shirley Jackson’s “The Sundial” and “We Have Always Lived in the Castle” are pretty damn fine too
Hey all, the Summer issue of the SFWA Bulletin contains an HE appreciation of Phil Farmer. I believe it's #150. Just an FYI.
Mr. Razler - I want to also thank you for maintaining a civil tone in your arguments - but, of course, I must disagree with your point.
I do not have a copy of the complaint - I have only read the brief provided after the press releaser on this site.
The crux of the argument on both sides can be summed up by the first paragraph under the heading "What lies ahead". Harlan and his attorney are arguing that AOL and RemarQ are attempting to extend the law past it's intended protections. Harlan seems to believe (I only use this phrasing because I'm interpreting the language actually provided) - he seems to believe that when an ISP is notified of a copyright infringement, they MUST take steps to not only end it, but to extend to the injured party the information they have regarding the infringer.
The way I am interpreting the the brief is that both AOL and RemarQ have refused to do this - they are blocking all efforts to pursue the infringers, and in the case of RemarQ, actually suggesting that the posting of a complete story can somehow be considered "fair use".
That - in the "real world" - would be called aiding and abetting.
It is clear that Harlan is within his rights to pursue those individuals who infringe upon him. He is not going after ISP's and individuals who have cooperated with him. What is not clear are the protections granted to ISP's by DMCA, what are the procedures they must follow when responding to a complaint, and their liability when they refuse to act.
That, Mr Razler, is the point of this case. As I have stated several time before on this board (not recently, and not concerning this case) - I think our system is grand because we have a mechanism to iron out differences of interpretation and opinion. It is the court system. The DMCA is new law - the boundries of its scope and the protections it offers are yet to be determined. ISP's, understandably, don't want to be bothered or held accountable for anything. But they will be. This case is one of several that will help define the limits.
Regarding the future - let's say Harlan actually succeeds in shutting down alt.binaries in general (not very likely, but let's run with it). How can this be interpreted as prior restraint or infringing on a persons right to "free speech"? No one is guaranteed the right to any particular medium of expression. You or I cannot go to our local radio or television station and demand air-time just because we have a right to speak. We can't go to a newspaper and demand the front page above the fold. We can't get into magazines or have our books published or our pamphlets distributed.
The Internet is a wide and wonderous "place" - there are ways of getting your message "out there" that are almost too numerous to count. Alt.binaries does not have a constitutional right to exist just because somebody wants it. Nor does Napster, or Gnutella or any other medium of exchange. And when it can be shown that such a medium does more harm than good in the world - I'm all for shutting it down.
But then again, I'm a crank, and I would love to see more people acting ethically, morally or even just reasonably nice to each other.
Jes: I dug it out this morning. If you liked "Danse Macabre," give King's "On Writing" a read. I thought it complemented nicely. I also just read "'Tis" and thought it worth putting on the keeper shelves. Well, they're not really shelves, I don't have room for shelves, almost every book I own is stacked up in labeled boxes…I need a bigger house…I need a better job to afford a better house…never mind…bad night/morning.…my towel keeps falling off the rack in what I can only think is grief…horrible news. Just horrible. In a most disturbing bit of…something, not like irony, but rather more disturbing… "Ghost Story" was not where I thought it would be, but was in the box with my "Hitchhiker" books. Chills….
David: Your phone company landline/Internet ether comparison is just not going to fly with me, my friend. AT&T decision, dead judge and all, a phone company that provides dial tone or infrastructure is considered a public utility. I deal with a number of these entities regularly in my particular job, and have been told on one more than one occasion by their representatives that they can't do this or that because they're a public utility. So that's *their* definition, not mine; which should put that issue out of play, yes/no?
A more accurate comparison, I think, is that AOL is like the pawnbroker who functions under the table as a small time fence for stolen items. The pawnbroker may very well make 99.9% of his income from perfectly legitimate sales, but he still has those stolen items hidden in the back room. If he gets caught with that stuff in his back room, (he doesn't even have to get caught selling it, as it was explained to me by a friend who's an officer) he's legally up that excremental creek. If he doesn't want to be up that particular creek, he has to 1)stop taking the stolen property; 2) figure out how to make certain he doesn't come into possession of stolen property through dishonesty on his customers or employees part; and 3) if he does recieve such an item in innocence, that he turns it in to be returned to the proper owner as soon as he knows it's been stolen, rather than selling it for his own profit.
AOL is no different. They've been given notice that the stuff is ill-gotten. It's in their ethereal back room. People are paying subscription fees to get things out of their back room, so AOL is getting paid for it. Ill-gotten gains, however small, are ill-gotten gains. If they don't want to be on the hook for receiving and distributing stolen property, they need to figure out how to prevent users from leaving it there, and if it's left, how to keep it from being distributed.
As to the "self-esteem" movement and the rise in dishonesty and thievery: if you're really so far off the reservation that you can't see the manifest connection between the socio-educational-political movement to make people "feel good about themselves, no matter what" and the rise in the number of people who are completely shameless about any disgusting, immoral/amoral behavior they've engaged in; who are shameless about justifying it based on their entitlement to whatever will make them happy; then I'm sorry, David, but I have to assume you're not nearly as smart as you appear.
Aw, crap. Sorry for the double posting, folks. Jittery fingers....
Also forgot to say, re: Ghost Story - Sears James recounting of the Fenny Bate incident. A marvellous nod to Turn of The Screw.
Jes
Hey all
Joseph: Thanks for the kind offer! I've actually, on and off, been looking for it for years. Indeed, Danse Macabre first turned me onto it and set me on the search - hell, King's book has informed so much of what clutters my bookshelves. My copy of DM is ancient and tattered through re-reading - and it was also the book that first turned me onto our patron HimElf (and you can imagine how long it took me to hunt down "Strange Wine", which King was soooo right about). Other invisible-in-the-UK treasures I've recently come across include The House Next Door (Anne Rivers Siddons) and, finally, The Haunting of Hill House (Shirley Jackson).
Shamefully, I've not read 'Red Badge of Courage'. Right,that's next on the list.....
Sheryl: Read it! Read it as soon as you can (or should I say, read it again, as it's on your shelves?). It's so rich, so full of character, so warm yet chilling.... Sears and Hawthorne and the rest are vividly imprinted in my mind.
There's something so peculiarly disturbing and persuasive about the centre of the story - "You are a ghost". I took it to mean that ghosts are a reflection of our 'dark desires', psychic imprints of repressed passion (very Freudian, I know), but it's such an opaque and oblique phrase that I find myself coming back to it again and again, bouncing off it and approaching it from different angles. Truly fascinating.
Well, best to all
Jes
PS. Douglas Adams, Perry Como. What a shitty weekend.
Hey all
Joseph: Thanks for the kind offer! I've actually, on and off, been looking for it for years. Indeed, Danse Macabre first turned me onto it and set me on the search - hell, King's book has informed so much of what clutters my bookshelves. My copy of DM is ancient and tattered through re-reading - and it was also the book that first turned me onto our patron HimElf (and you can imagine how long it took me to hunt down "Strange Wine", which King was soooo right about). Other invisible-in-the-UK treasures I've recently come across include The House Next Door (Anne Rivers Siddons) and, finally, The Haunting of Hill House (Shirley Jackson).
Shamefully, I've not read 'Red Badge of Courage'. Right,that's next on the list.....
Sheryl: Read it! Read it as soon as you can (or should I say, read it again, as it's on your shelves?). It's so rich, so full of character, so warm yet chilling.... Sears and Hawthorne and the rest are vividly imprinted in my mind.
There's something so peculiarly disturbing and persuasive about the centre of the story - "You are a ghost". I took it to mean that ghosts are a reflection of our 'dark desires', psychic imprints of repressed passion (very Freudian, I know), but it's such an opaque and oblique phrase that I find myself coming back to it again and again, bouncing off it and approaching it from different angles. Truly fascinating.
Well, best to all
Jes
PS. Douglas Adams, Perry Como. What a shitty weekend.
Just running through this ayem. Joseph, Peter Straub's native land is America--he was born in Milwaukee. A lot of the "Koko" trilogy is autobiographical, in fact. Not as well known as "Ghost Story" but well worth reading.
Before I forget, thanks to Colleen for giving me that definition. :)
I swear sometimes when I shake my head, I can hear the BB rattlin' round ;)
Wallace "Blyre" Cass
http://blyre.tripod.com/CM/
Also, Mr. Razler -
Thanks for standing your ground firmly but politely. It's nice to see a discussion can be held about this without it devolving into name-calling.
Peg - the KICK release references the complaint in some detail, but I haven't been given a copy of the complaint or asked to put it up by the Ellisons or Ms. Volada.
*there*, not their. *doh*
Rick - is their a copy of the complaint available electronically? David has referenced it several times so I would like to review it, however, the KICK site only shows the press release.
Thanks,
Peg
It is difficult to reply to comments one cannot see: Firstly, the comment that somehow we've all become a nation of liars and cheats because we've discovered that some people really suffer from damaged self esteem is ludecreous on the face - it's just like the McCarthyist/HUAC attitude blaming the increase in liars and cheats which allegeldy occurred in the 50s on Communists, Liberals and flouridated drinking water.
As for illegal reproduction of copyrighted material (which, is not legally theft, but theft is a good short-hand name for it) I do not condone it at all. And those who steal by shoving books under their shirts as well as those who steal by distributing illegal copies of copyrighted material, they should make restitution.
Now, as for AOL, & other IPs "not being the same as the phone company", a repeated cry: We don't have The Phone Company anymore. We haven't since Judge Greene broke up ATT, and HE's been dead for a decade!
We have a collection of separate competing corporations furnishing us with voice p2p connections, just like we have a collection of competing corporations furnishing us with internet service.
The concept that AOL stores data on its news server is irrelevant. It is the nature of the system to store material for pickup by users for x days or n gigabytes of messages per newsgroup, just as it is the nature of many phone companies to store messages for persons who do not pick up their phone.
This is the nature of the communications system.
Again, I have no good word for thieves or "thieves." They should make restitution and lose access to the hypothetical book store mentioned or their ISP, possibly the Internet entire from their home [barring someone from the 'net these days is like barring them from the phone system, both impossible and life(style)threatening].
So you go after the thieves. The posters, not the people who run the system they use to send out their stolen goods (another analogy that fits - I send a package of stolen goods through UPS or the US Postal Service - which sits in the warehouse for several days - does that make UPS or the USPS a party to my crime?)
Ellison is ignoring the nature of the system - the fact that the illegally transcribed works are on one server or another, on a system which has grown so large that it strains the bounds of complex topology and can no longer even be mapped is irrelevant.
As Bruce Sterling said "cyberspace is *where* the phone call takes place. And, by extension, where the news is stored, once it is placed on the system.
As a remedy, Ellison is *not* asking for some form of *impossible* (and illegal) system to prevent works of specific people from being posted to a newsgroup. (It's illegal, because it represents pre-publication censorship - see US Supreme Court decisions in Near v. Minn. and US v. NY Times. Fred Friendly's Minnesota Rag is a good place to start)
What he has demanded is that a particular newsgroup which is, IN PART, being used for the distribution of information in violation of the copyright act, be effectively closed down by denying access to it from the major home-service ISP.
Not only that, but if you read Ellison's brief carefully, he is suggesting that *ALL* alt.binaries newsgroups be closed down because there is not much talk, and much distribution of data (read the text of the complaint).
I am NOT claiming that copyright theft is somehow protected by the First Amendment - it isn't, but it must be committed first before a tort claim can be filed against it.
I am NOT picking up the silly data-wants-to-be-free rant of some hackers.
What I am saying is that I will not stand for a news group being closed down because some of its contents is copyright, just as (as some former home-ISP operator claimed in the days when being a home-ISP was possible) a newsgroup contains alleged kiddyporn (there are enough laws on the books to prosecute the posters if that's the case already).
I'm a writer - I've made a meger livingreporting the news for the past quarter century, and zapped folks for copyright infringement myself.
But it was the folks who violated my copyright, not their printer, or, in a more recent case, their ISP.
(Triple posting corrected. - Ed)
I was never a tremendous Perry Como fan, but goodness gracious.
Wallace "Blyre" Cass
http://blyre.tripod.com/CM/
Well according to CNN Perry Como & Douglas Adams have both passed
away. Somehow my world seems a bit lonelier tonight. Guess I'll
go "Catch a Falling Star and Put it in my Pocket" and hang my towel at half mast. Gotta go feed my Babel fish now.
Jes: Haven’t looked at “Ghost Story” recently, though I remember being fond enough of it to put it on my “keeper” shelves. Something to do tomorrow after church! Can I get back to you later?
On defense of thievery: Neither am I able to make arguments more cogent than Rick, Bill, etc. I would point out an additional flaw in DMR’s argument, though, in that AOL *hardly* a public utility, as phone companies are. And I would like to add this observation to the general soup:
Many multiples of surveys done by Gallup and other organizations over the last 20-25 years have noted an ever increasing number of admitted cheaters, beginning in the late 70’s with surveys of students. (I was just entering Jr HS when the Washington education bureaucrats started sending out little anonymous surveys to find out things like whether you were drinking, using drugs, having sex, or cheating on tests, all keyed to age group by the color of the survey you filled out.)
This increase in cheating slobs corresponds in time (and in no small degree) to the big self-esteem movement in our society at large, and the number has literally *exploded* with the expansion of the ‘Net and the ability to steal things from a bigger pool of material. But it’s become far more socially important for people to feel good about themselves than for them to be honest or decent. Strictures against lying, cheating, stealing, and all the rest of those Commandments that form the basis of our particular culture are now looked upon as being unfairly judgmental, and to pass such a judgment on a liar, thief, cheater or other cretin is to find oneself condemned.
Does it surprise anyone that liars, thieves and cheaters are always able to find someone to champion their illicit cause? After all, Harlan, and by extension those people who believe he’s doing *THE RIGHT THING* by pushing this issue are making the liars, thieves and cheaters feel bad! How dare he (and we)! Someone’s self-esteem is being hurt by this! Someone must quickly call him names and think up lies that makes him out to be the bad guy!
And that’s really all that Razler’s argument really comes to, IMO. A Goebbels-esque attempt at the Big Lie. I suppose it’s really up to us to try and make certain that the truth is shouted louder this time. Anyone know where we can get bullhorns cheap? I can’t afford an expensive one, you see, because I *buy* my books.
Jes-
I agree completely with your assessment of "Ghost Story," which Stephen King goes through in his book on horror, "Danse Macabre." Worth picking up (especially for an interesting part on Don Wanderly's characterization of "The Red Badge of Courage" as a ghost story where the ghost never arrives).
But, I protest, was it that hard to find "Ghost Story" in Mr. Straub's native land? Please tell me it's not out of print over there....
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
P.S. I just check Amazon.co.uk, and God bless it if it isn't available. Sheesh. Jes, I would have been happy to send you a copy. It's widely available over here in the USA.
Rick and Bill: You said it best, folks, and you said it all. Razler, just leave it. And the jews comment? Jesus.
So to leave this topic for a moment - because I don't have the faculties to add to what the above esteemed gentlemen have said - what is the best book people have read lately?
After months of searching, I've just devoured Peter Straub's Ghost Story. Taking a step back from it, it's absurdly over-the-top, with a multitude of logic-lines - shapeshifters, "you are a ghost", Narcissus - yet it hangs together beautifully, and I have suffered more than one nights disturbed sleep because of it.
Also; comics. Just read a re-print of Powers no. 7, "starring" Warren Ellis. Funny and brutal.
Best to all
Jes
My fellow posters,
Let me just start by saying that I won't debate this issue point for point. This has already been done very eloquently by those here already. Therefore, I will simply speak my personal opinion and then slip on my asbestos armor..hehe.
Speaking for myself, I find the defense of Intellectual Property theft to be a very disturbing trend in modern day society. The very idea that as a creative person, something that I have worked hard on way into the wee hours of the night can potentially be taken by those lacking in either conscience or moral center and used for whatever purposes they feel fit to do, bothers me to the point of ingesting mass quantities of Maalox (tm).
I go through the effort of creating good stories not only to entertain those who enjoy reading, but also in the hopes that one day, I will be earning my living at it. Therefore, protecting what I have poured my heart and soul into becomes a paramount issue.
And why shouldn't authors, artists and the like, be protected? The argument of "loss of a few royalty dollars" has never been accepted as anything more than a tactic to excuse the blatant misappropriation of something that should have been acquired legally in the first place. Everyone who works at their job should be compensated for their time and effort. The loss due to IP theft and Copyright violations can be measured in the economic costs incurred by the Creator, specifically the Opportunity Costs of creating their pieces. I work at my story when I could be hanging out with buddies or watching TV or whatever else a person can do on a Saturday afternoon.
I don't use the binaries newsgroups, mostly because when I've looked at them, all I generally see are lines of indecipherable glyphs, but if the only way to stop the theft is to close down all of them, then by all means, let the axe fall where it may.
Let me conclude by saying that this is indeed my personal opinion and is meant with no malice intended toward anyone.
Wallace "Blyre" Cass
http://blyre.tripod.com/CM/
Rick and Bill have done a good job of answering the latest attempt to justify conflating theft with freedom of speech. However, I'd like to add something from my viewpoint as the operator of one of the oldest Book-and-Author forum on the internet.
I've been running the forum since 1981. We weren't calling it the web in those days, of course. We didn't even call it the internet. Some people talked about the Arpanet, but mostly we just "logged on." It used to be that we'd get marvelous author uploads--stories and essays and previews that were available nowhere else. George Alec Effinger once graced us with an entire novel, available via my Forum well before its appearance in hardcover. While Effinger's particular largess was unusual, the generosity of authors was commonplace. Because there was a sense of _trust_ in the online community.
No longer. Now we have people who actually argue that no one bears responsibility for theft. Or worse, that theft is actually _good_ for the victim, who'll doubtless get a whole new audience that will beg for an opportunity to buy the stolen material in a book. And uploads from authors become ever rarer--because they know that some mountebank will abuse "freedom of speech" as a license to steal.
Don't kid yourselves, folks. When Harlan talks about the effect of copyright theft on the future of the arts, he's talking, obliquely, of what is _already_ happening. It's happening on the web, where riches are harder to come by because of legitimate paranoia among writers. And we're the losers--already.
David-
Before I begin, I want to state clearly that this will be my first, last and only word on this particular matter.
I'm not certain exactly where to start, so, let's begin with your statement:
"Now, after a bad Napster decision, HE and SFWA might win - and everyone loses because the door is open for the next group to ban entire news groups because someone talks about kinky sex,or disses their faith, etc."
You go on to say:
"But opening the door means we're going to see the barring by ISPs of access to named and un-named Warez groups, music groups where binaries are exchanged, etc. Then groups where the main theme is objectionable to the community (or someone with cash to file suite, ala 'Rev.' Donald Wildmon.) So folks who like to trade dirty pictures through newsgroups are banned. Then folks who like to state certain non-mainstream opinions. 'First they came for the Jews' folks, and if you don't want to end up in trouble, you start by defending THEM, even if you don't like THEM, because the next folks up against the wall are going to be YOU because you've been polluted by Harlan's filthy ideas, some of which got into me at a young age, made me demand JUSTICE! at every turning - and in this case, Harlan is going against everything he stands for."
The litigation is not about the nature of the content; it is about the reproduction of copyrighted material without the permission of, or compensation to, the creator of the material. It is difficult to understand how this is interpreted as an assault on the First Amendment, free speech or, as AOL/RemarQ phrased it, "fair use." If there were any position statements in the suit which were deemed analogous to the efforts by various conservative/religious groups to have material banned from libraries or removed from school curriculum, organizations such as the ACLU would be championing the defendants. They have not done so because such is not the case.
Because someone buys the book, s/he owns a copy of the book, but neither the right nor the privilege to do whatever s/he wishes with that source material. For example, if I create a program for an institution and I am compensated for my efforts (because the program does what it was designed to do), this does not give the institution the right to demand the source code of the program (with no compensation to me) for the purpose of providing it to a third-party that wishes to market the program to other institutions, whether or not the third-party will profit from said distribution.
There is nothing ambiguous about the copyright statement (this one taken from the 1997 edition of Slippage):
"No part of this book may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, electronic or mechanical - including photocopy, recording, Internet posting, electronic bulleting board - or any other information storage and retrieval system extant or heretofore developed, without permission in writing from the Author or the Author's agent."
Now, before you attempt to take me to task for typing those words here, this is a quote from a letter which Mr. Ellison wrote to me when I requested permission to use a quote from his material:
"Using a few lines of anything as headnote epigram, or ex post facto coda, is absolutely okay with only the barest accreditation…It is only if one intends to excerpt and republish large sections of another work, in a new venue, that a copyright notice such as the one you suggest in your letter becomes necessary. (And in the event of that latter situation, you would need to request permission that would probably cost you a few bucks.)"
The litigation is not about the exchange of ideas, off-color humor, insults, scatological references, music critiques or racy photographs. It's about organizations not condoning individuals taking something from someone else and claiming it as there own to do with what they damn well please. You state that Mr. Ellison is simply doing this "because of the threat of a few dollars lost royalties"? Are you implying that AOL and RemarQ provide their services gratis for the good of the commonweal?
And as for the attempt to draw a parallelism between the lawsuit and the statement "'First they came for the Jews'"...don't even get me started on that one.
That's all I have to say.
Wm. Forrester
-Matthew, thanks for the Kersh information
-Rick, your message was most eloquent, as always.
Departing, for the briefest moment, from the current frenzy:
If anyone is interested in Gerald Kersh at his peak, you can read the first chapter of his excellent "Fowlers End" at
http://s1.waterstones.co.uk/cgi-bin/wat01prd.filereader?640640278+EN/products/1860468322
David-
I fail to see the hypocrisy in supporting free speech and condoning theft at the same time. Perhaps you could explain it to me more fully?
As it stands, your reasoning is flawed in many ways, to wit:
1) The AOL/Phone company analogy is flawed. AOL is not just like the phone company that doesn't "listen in" on conversations. Harlan is not addressing net traffic. He is addressing information that is KEPT on AOL's servers and made available for redistribution.
2) The assumption that going after people who post copyrighted material will result in the persecution of people for their views is, at best, alarmist - and it's DEFINITELY flawed. Going after copyright thieves doesn't mean legitimate posters will be harassed any more than going after speeders and people who run stop signs or drive drunk means legitimate drivers will be arrested.
Additionally, the logical extension of your views is that we shouldn't "censor" someone who posts child pornography, or other people's addresses and phone numbers, merely because it's against the LAW. And you should be ashamed, ASHAMED, of comparing Harlan to Hitler by your use of the Martin Niemöller quote.
3) Your statement that the suit will leave the door open to "ban entire news groups because someone talks about kinky sex,or disses their faith" is flawed. In NO CASE has anyone's right to free speech been abrogated, nor has this even been discussed.
Your theory is that establishing the legal right to prevent an ISP from carrying a newsgroup containing illegal material will set a precedent enabling people to shut down newsgroups because of views expressed. By this reasoning, existing legislation preventing the publication of libelous material or material advocating the violent overthrow of the government sets a precedent for shutting down opposition newspapers and magazines. That's just silly.
4) Your information about napster is flawed. Napster doesn't merely act as a conduit for "peer2peer" transfer. It provides central servers that store information and allow for searches for copyrighted material. Additionally, Napster was well aware that the vast majority of transmissions across its network were of illegal copies of songs, and has been taking steps to try to reach accomodations with major record labels because of this. Finally, your comparison of the Napster case to this one is flawed because your main point is that Napster doesn't store the information on their servers - but David, AOL DOES.
5) Your characterization of the people posting copyrighted material as a "handful of crazies" willing to rip apart books has nothing to do with the case. It's like saying we shouldn't have shoplifting laws because shoplifters are a "handful of crazies" willing to stuff items up their shirts. Or it shouldn't be illegal to, say, bomb federal buildings because only a "handful of crazies" would be willing to do THAT.
6) Your suggestion that all ISPs be required to carry all newsgroups, well, I won't go into how unpractical, not to mention immoral, that would be. I ran an ISP at one point and, aside from the fact that I like to chose whether or not I'll store pictures of 6 year olds with broomsticks broken off in their asses on my server, I wouldn't have been ABLE to carry all newsgroups without being broke before I started. The suggestion is also contradictory to your initial statement that ISPs should not be regulated - so you're saying forcing ISPs to do something is good only if it suits your particular morality?
7) Your accusation that Harlan is going after these people because of a "few dollars in lost royalties" is flawed. It's unsupported and dead wrong. In the first place, practically everyone but you seems to know money will definitely be LOST, not made, on this fight no matter how it turns out. Second, Harlan is doing this (and believe me I know him better than you) because he does not tolerate fools or thieves, and because he has always stood up for the rights of the artist.
8) Your final statement, saying "blocking reading of anything is censorship", is valueless. Calling something censorship means nothing. Your implication that commiting "censorship" means you're doing the same thing as taking books out of the hands of kids is flawed. You're speaking about censorship in a general form, like the censorship that allows you to protect your privacy or the censorship that prevents someone from publishing full plans to constructing nuclear weapons. You are then making a direct correlation between this and "censorship" being more narrowly defined as the suppression of free speech. That's specious, to say the least.
Let's say someone sneaks into your house and takes a picture of you while showering or bonking your weasel or whatever, then prints it on leaflets and starts putting it up on telephone poles. If you tear them down, you're commiting "censorship".
Let's then say a "handful of crazies" all start doing this and they make a newsgroup called "alt.binaries.pictures.david-razler.peeping-tom" and use it to trade their David Razler pictures under a variety of aliases (I've got one guy who sends me harassing messages under so far about 40 different AOL accounts). Or maybe they make a newsgroup called "alt.plan.let's-kill.david-razler" and begin making detailed plans for how they can kill you - your home address, directions, your workplace and work habits, hobbies, places you like to frequent, names and addresses of your friends, etc. Going after the individuals or even accounts doesn't help, it's ludicrously easy to get dozens of AOL accounts with no personal info.
But by your CHIEF argument, if you asked AOL to stop carrying these newsgroups you would be "opening the door" to censoring people with non-majority religions and views.
Defending oneself from theft and persecution does not lead to the end of free speech, David. Perhaps before you begin accusing Harlan, and this website, of contradiction and/or hypocrisy for supporting both the first amendment and the fight against piracy you should examine your own views for similar contradictions.
On Sat, 12 May 2001 13:56:52 -0400, you wrote:
James Alan wrote (complete text)
>I don't want to clutter up the board with obvious facts that have already
>been repeated ad nauseum, so I'm e-mailing you privately.
>
>Let's use your own analogy: "Napster should have been treated like the
>phone company, which is not allowed to care what the content of the
>conversation is, as long as no one files a harassment complaint."
>
>Harlan is not sueing the ISPS for carrying illegal content; he is sueing
>them because when he asked them to block the illegal content (in essence,
>filing a "harassment" complaint) they did nothing. Regardless of morals or
>the way things should be, this is -clearly- illegal. It's akin to calling
>the police because there's a guy prowling around in your house with a gun,
>and the police saying "eh, what do we care?" or calling the phone company
>because someone is using their service to harass you, and they refuse to do
>anything about it, even though they clearly could.
>
>James
James:
The facts are *not* obvious nor *facts*
(based on the Ellison complaint) Ellison is asking the ISPs to stop transmitting stories copyrighted by Killimenjaro Corp. by closing down access to all alt.binary newsgroups, or, in particular one alt.binaries newsgroup.
Now, if he asked the ISPs supplying service to the offenders to pull their wires, OK.
But if he is asking an ISP to block out an entire newsgroup, or, again, based on the complaint, *all* alt.binaries newsgroups, he is going way too far.
It is the equivalent of saying that since an obscene act occurred on Main Street, Main Street should be closed to pedestrian traffic.
If you call the phone company and say "I'm getting harassing calls" the company puts a "trap" on your line to record all incoming numbers, then hands it over to the cops. Or you can *69 each caller and find out who is harassing you and bar that person from calling you or the network altogether.
Assuming the person uses a certain payphone, you cannot get that payphone ripped out, nor can you ask that all payphones be disconnected because they may be a source of obscene calls.
Your two examples (calling the telco or calling the cops) are not equivalent examples at all: they are examples of a government agency ignoring an emergent matter threatening life and limb and a private agency ignoring specific criminal acts.
Copyright violation is not a crime, it is a tort matter. That is, if I violate your copyright, I am not indicted and tried, facing prison.
You sue me, you make a tort claim, and I am required, if found to have done so, to make reparations. I won't end up with a police record. This is a basic misunderstanding of how the law works, and a fatal flaw to your rhetoric.
Going further: in a tort claim, one may only ask a party with some responsibility for an act to halt it, and then, in a way which tramples upon no one else.
The Ellison case, if its most extreme remedy is granted, will block many ISPs from allowing users to read or post to a hundred+ different groups, and, if taken in its narrowest, to one particular group, where any author who wishes to publish his or her own material is free to do so now, but would be barred forever if the suit succeeds.
HE objects, quite rightly, to the actions of roughly a half-dozen people misusing a particular alt.binaries group to post his copyrighted material. But instead of pulling the plug on the posters (a quite legitimate action, as I said) he would destroy an entire system of distributing legitimate information, an action which is beyond the remedy that a court can grant.
If he wins the full remedy sought, there will be no more newsgroups where chunks of LINUX computer code can be distributed, photos of you-name-ot distributed, new sounds from emerging artists who wish their work heard distributed.
If he wins a narrow victory, one forum will be crushed because some of its users misused it. Let's shut down a newspaper for good because someone placed a fraudulent advertisement..
An ISP has the duty to provide access to newsgroups to subscribers. If I had my way, no ISP could block access to any properly registered newsgroup by blocking feed to its news server. If an ISP is a public carrier, this is part of its responsibilities.
Now an ISP *also* has the responsibility to shut off *individuals* who misuse the 'net, including newsgroups. That is the *only* place where ISPs should be called to account by the Ellison action.
Beyond that, it is the individuals who commit the act in violation of tort law who should face penalties, not the entire world.
Harlan has worked tirelessly for causes devoted to expanding freedom to all from civil rights to the rights of fer-christ's-sake-comic-book-artists who draw stuff that isn't G-rated.
Until now he has been a champion of free expression.
But this time around, I'm afraid Harlan does *not* understand how either newsgroups or ISPs work, and, therefore, is unknowingly attacking a mosquito with a ton of ammonium nitrate saturated with benzene.
And like you, many of the folks who love his work, and even like him (I mean, when he's not in-persona, he's one of the warmest, most caring humans I've met - a statement that usually gets me in trouble with everyone who has deliberately goaded Harlan into a fight) are blindly supporting his efforts, coming up with inaccurate analogies and ignoring the effects the suit would have on your use of the 'net because your hero has made a mistake.
Sorry, Harlan has made a mistake this time, and it's a big one.
Posting to the Webderland BBS to prevent me from having to repeat this kind of answer
dmr
Han't anyone noticed the contradiction in flying the Blue Ribbon and backing Harlan's efforts to "fight piracy", not just by going after the pirates (legit in my book) but in going after the fora (places where speech, some legit, some not legit) take place!
And worse, going after ISPs, which should play NO ROLE in the matter, just like the telephone companies don't listen in and decide to bar calls that are likely to be criminal in nature.
I am furious with The Man because he is suing AOL, etc. and demanding the ISPs stop carryng binary newsgroups (read the complaint) not just Warez or the offending alt.binaries.sf.ebooks, though that is bad enough.
Now, after a bad Napster decision, HE and SFWA might win - and everyone loses because the door is open for the next group to ban entire news groups because someone talks about kinky sex,or disses their faith, etc.
Now if the folks in the Napster case had gone after folks posting libraries of copyrighted music, I'd have no problem(tm). But Napster has now been made the gatekeeper of what can and cannot be posted for peer2peer transfer.
Napster should have been treated like the phone company, which is not allowed to care what the content of the conversation is, as long as no one files a harassment complaint. It should have been regarded as Yet Another Switchboard, but judges operating with bqad information and fear of new technology ruled otherwise.
Susan E. said to me at ICON "we're suing thieves."
Fine with me - sue the POSTERS.
Do not sue the ISPs, which should function as freely as phone companies do, or, even better, be required (as cable companies are under the must-carry-local-stations rules) to carry all newsgroups.
What we've got is a handful of folks willing to rip apart books in order to scan them and post the scanned pages to the 'net - a handfull of crazies with too much time on their hands.
And we've got a handful of crazies who, instead of buying a $1 used paperback, would rather read a CRT all day, turning their $n thousand-dollar computer into a big, immobile paperback.
These folks is gonna go blind in short order - or they may be so taken by a story that they buy the book!
But opening the door means we're going to see the barring by ISPs of access to named and un-named Warez groups, music groups where binaries are exchanged, etc.
Then groups where the main theme is objectionable to the community (or someone with cash to file suite, ala "Rev." Donald Wildmon.)
So folks who like to trade dirty pictures through newsgroups are banned.
Then folks who like to state certain non-mainstream opinions.
"First they came for the Jews" folks, and if you don't want to end up in trouble, you start by defending THEM, even if you don't like THEM, because the next folks up against the wall are going to be YOU because you've been polluted by Harlan's filthy ideas, some of which got into me at a young age, made me demand JUSTICE! at every turning - and in this case, Harlan is going against everything he stands for.
Cut off net access for thieves, no problem here. Cut off access by readers to a single newsgroup? I've got BIIG problems with that.
REPENT Harlan! Tis suit goes against everything YOU have stood for most of your life, and you don't even recognize it because of the threat of a few dollars lost royalties.
Hit the pricks who steal from you and post - do it!
But blocking readership of anything is censorship - the same stuff that keeps your books out of the hands of adolescents who would best benefit from them.
dmr
Kerry <kerryb@ozemail.com.au>
Broken Hill, NSW Australia - Saturday, May 12 2001 9:5:58
Yes, very sad news. I spent many hours laughing at this mans humour.
A bad day.
Kerry
Sad news: AP reports that Douglas Adams ("Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" and other hilarious books) died this morning, of a heart attack. Only 49 years old.
Deeeee-pressing.
Howzit Wallace ! In answer to your query, a poltroon is a "base coward"(American Heritage & Websters); a label no one would want (unless of course you're Falstaff).
I agree with Harlan that "The Human Chair" by Edogawa Rampo is a scary tale-read it years ago & it made my skin crawl. The collection "Japanese Tales of Mystery & Imagination" is still in print(Tuttle publishers). Another Rampo tale "The Twins" was made into an eerie Japanese horror film called Gemini. I recommend everyone check it out. Harlan's latest audio collection
"Midnight in the Sunken Cathedral" is awesome.
I have a question for the board. I've been running across a particular term on Usenet lately, specifically rec.arts.sf.written, and this word keeps popping up.
Would someone be so kind as to explain what a "poltroon" is, please? From the context that I've been seeing it in, it seems to be something that a person would not want to be referred to. I may have misspelled it so please bear with me. :)
Thanks,
Wallace
Shane,
Yes, I know. I was trying to be coy, and ended up being obtuse instead. Sorry about that.
David,
Come to think of it, the dinner roll could be cooked in fat, which means that you can't spread butter on it under kashrut. Yeah, I know, I'm stretching. I just love kashrut and Talmudic law examples.
Regards,
Joseph J. Finn
I have to agree with Joseph: the kicker with the butter and roll doesn't make sense. As Alex explained, the source of all kashrut (kosher) rules is the law that "thou shalt not boil a calf in its mother's milk." This was extended to prohibit mixing of any milk and meat products -- so a cheeseburger alone is right out ... for an Orthodox Jew, it must be said. And there are plenty of Orthodox Jews who don't strictly keep the law, as well as Conservative and Reform Jews who do.
It should be added that the original, main reason the calf and mother's milk rule was stressed was that the Canaanites (the folks the Hebrews killed and pushed out of the land of Israel) did it -- and we didn't want to be like the Canaanites! Many other Jewish laws have their origin in distinguishing "us" from "them" (Egyptians, Babylonians, etc.)
The primary reason non-Orthodox Jews choose to observe the law today is for what we might call "wakefulness" -- to remain aware of what one eats and how, just as one tries to remain aware during prayer instead of doing it by rote, or being "in the moment" as much as possible throughout one's day.
Joy: That's an interesting angle from which to approach "A Boy and His Dog," but it's only one angle. I tend to think of the story as being about love and survival -- both love AND survival, and love vs. survival. In other words, romantic love may be little more than a luxury in a world where one is always on the edge; love may mean whatever motivates someone who can help you stay alive rather than someone who makes you feel good.
Joseph: Actually Asimov modeled the detective in "Murder at the ABA" after Harlan.
Hiya Cav,
I just shot off an email to you a few minutes ago. Hope the writing goes well for you. :)
Sincerely,
Wallace "Blyre" Cass
Would anyone be interested in helping me by critiquing a very short (less than 400 words) opening I'm writing? Morbid humor, anyone?
email me if you're interested.
L.
I can't call it the BEA - that just sounds wrong in my head. It takes away from the beauty that is "Murder at the ABA," where the murdered gentleman is a...ahem...abrasive author. Written by Isaac Asimov, so you can gues for yourself who the victim is a bit of a parody of.
Alex:
Couldn't agree with you more, Alex. I have covered the BEA in the past for my newspaper and it's an overwhelming experience. The Spanish Pavilion alone last year was something to behold. I do recommend it if you can afford it. Gives you a pretty neat idea of the state the industry is in and you get to take home tons of uncorrected proofs of upcoming books.
Alejandro, I'm looking forward to Book Expo America--I've even learned to call it BEA instead of ABA. Took me years to get used to that. But, yeah, it's expensive if you don't have a press pass (note to those who must pay: neener, neener, neener). It's _technically_ "not open to the public," but I don't think they require proof of credentials from the booksellers who attend. It's simply that no one else would want to pay the entry fee! The show floor is enormous. You can't investigate everything in less than two solid days. That doesn't include any special panels or author events you might want to check out. Anyone who's never been to a BEA and has the opportunity shouldn't turn it down. It's well worth the visit.
Fortunately, the Bradbury, Paul and farmer presentations will be held indoors at the Dearborn Station. And yes, Maggie, we did say book fair. (Insert Pavlovian bell) A great excuse to visit our fine city, don't you think?
(And by the by, Printers Row will be taking place the same weekend as the BookExpo here in Chicago, the book industry's biggest fair. Unfortunately, the BookExpo is closed to the public.)
Did someone say BOOK FAIR? ;-)
Maggie
I just hope it it's better weather for Printer's Row than it was last year. Books and rain do not mix.
The Printers Row Book Fair, the Midwest's largest outdoor book fair, will take place once again all along South Dearborn June 2 & 3. Ray Bradbury, Philip Jose Farmer and Frederik Pohl are scheduled to speak June 3 beginning at 11:00 am. For more info, visit their website at www.printersrowbookfair.org. Guess who's waking up early that Sunday?
First Ellison...
I was wandering through one of the pathetic bookstores in my hometown (Baton Rouge, LA) and saw an intriguing cover of a man behind a brick wall. Noooooooo, it was a man who WAS a brick wall. It was the 1983 ACE reprint of "No Doors, No Windows." Had never heard of Ellison before, then read the introduction and The Whimper of Whipped Dogs. As I finished the story, I just sat there with my mouth open. After I recovered, I started my search for other Ellison books.
Favorite stories (I assume "everything" is not an option):
All the lies that are my life, Neither your Jenny nor Mine, The Resurgence of Miss Ankle-Strap Wedgie, Daniel White for the Greater Good, All the Sounds of Fear, Pretty Maggie Moneyeyes, Centerpunching - and the rest of "Sleepless Nights", too many more to mention.
I especially love the non-fiction and introductions.
I just wanted to take a moment to thank Andrew Burt for providing the board with such a wealth of information (and informed opinion) on creative writing programs. I found his comments and links to be tremendously helpful. Thanks again!
Justin
Shane - Alex had it right. Mixing any meat and milk products in one meal is a no-no. The cheeseburger alone would be verboten.
joy - ABAHD is about sex, love and recognizing the difference.
Mitch
Alex & Joseph: Thanks.
I've just watched the film Boy and His Dog and I just wanted to make some comments. It seemed to me the whole movie was about sex--above, the race developed into a roudy, primal,sexually frustrated lot while below civilized themselves into sterility.--
made it understandable that Vic felt he had to get back in the dirt so he could feel clean.
Thanks, Peg. Actually I do have an ulterior motive for posting on this board. I'm an aspiring writer and hoping to pick up a few stray tips here and there on how to improve my craft. :)
Wallace "Blyre" Cass
http://blyre.tripod.com/CM/
Wallace - I didn't get that troll impression from your post. Sorry if you picked up that implication.
Peg
I sure hope that I wasn't included in that "Troll" Category. I was just doing the "Hi, I'm new here and being friendly" thing. Honest, I was. :)
Wallace "Blyre" Cass
Just a quick note to everyone who's been so patient in awaiting the release of the revised and expanded ESSENTIAL ELLISON 50 Year Retrospective. We expect to have books ready to ship around May 24th. We went through quite a few additions and final corrections, all of which should make this edition something very special. The book will also be released in a limited edition of 350/cps.
Anyone that wants to see pics of my view of Catalina, you're welcome to stop by:
www.digitalcarrion.com/catalina_scenic.html
It's all thumbnailed, broken up into categories, so you only have to look at the pics you want to, and the rest of the site is still in development, so this isn't even a shameless plug.
Enjoy,
L.
Just got back from a wonderful, lovely, warm, and fun 10 days in the Seychelles. I actually have some color to my skin for the first time in, oh, a year or two. We were the *whitest* people on the islands! It was all that tropical jazz and a bag of chips. Go ahead, be jealous.
Took me over 2 hours to catch up with the board - egads folks. Will try to do my best with short responses.
**Rick - sorry to hear about your divorce. *hug*
**Cavalaxis - D, E on the light side, possibly F.
**Cookie - lovely, lovely, lovely... just my style. More!
**Alejandro - Congrats multiple times!
**Joseph - we absolutely love ceilidhs! Folks were surprised when we attended a St. Andrews' Ball and already knew how to do Dashing White Seargent, Gay Gordon, Strip (slip?) the Willow and the like (having learned them at Burns' Suppers in Alaska).
**Chicago folks - having only visited for 2 days, I didn't get to sample much on the restaurants (but loved all of those I did). My fave though was Carmine's Clamhouse over on Rose (I think). MMMMMMMM YUM! Divine.
**Bill - yep, found the recipe. Instant - ugh. But definitely agree with the mexican chocolate, I've loved it for years, much more complexity of flavor.
**Baseball - really enjoy movies about baseball - "Bull Durham" was a fave, as was "Eight Men Out" and "A League of Their Own". I worked the concessions stand for the high school team (had my momento baseball trophy until the cat recently broke it). But, I find the pace of the game too slow. Guess I'm impatient, or maybe the few games I saw weren't great.
** "Rude" posts/articles - I guess I take these to be people's differing opinions for the most part. It's a bit trollish to trash Harlan on a website which obviousy finds few faults with the man. How's that saying go? "Never wrestle with a pig - nobody wins and you both get dirty." I just try to let those type of posts go by.
** First HE read - uhhhhh, can't remember clearly. Think it was the "Beast that Shouted Love..." collection but could be wrong. Whatever it was hooked me but good.
** Stories that stay with me - just off the top of my head
"Repent...", "Grail", "Susan", "Croatoan", "Mefisto in Onyx", "Jeffty is Five", plus several memorable non-fiction pieces but I'm poor with non-fiction titles.
** None that I couldn't read again if I ever get through everything at least once!
** Guilty pleasures - far too many to admit to the well read folks on this board. On the risk of being disowned, or at least excommunicated: SW books and movies, ST series and films, way to much Sf/Fan type TV, way too much TV period.
Just have to mention this also as a possible guilty pleasure. I took along one of my on-a-lark SF book club purchases for reading, "The Chronicles of Master Li and Number Ten Ox" by Barry Hughart (a 3 book ominbus). Absolutely loved it, just hilarious rollicking fun. Part Sherlock Holmes, part Remo Williams, part tongue-in-cheek humor and part slapstick Keystone Cops (yes, it can be pulled off in writing) set in ancient China. The copy I have was pusblished by The Stars Our Destination Books in Chicago and has lovely illustrations by Kaja Foglio.
Okay, jet lag calls..... Peg
Also, NPR's Morning Edition (4/13) did a piece on the lawsuit. Go to www.npr.org and type "Wind Done Gone" into the keyword search and you can listen to the article.
>
Bill, I've read a number of fairly substantive articles on the controversy, most of them through the Atlanta Journal-Constitution site.
Here's the URL: http://www.accessatlanta.com/partners/ajc/newsatlanta
Plug "Wind Done Gone" into the search box, and it should come up with several dozen articles on the subject. Most that I've read (perhaps a dozen) have been pretty lucid and unbiased.
Hope this helps.
Lorin
Has anyone found any information of substance on the controversy over "The Wind Done Gone"?
Alex,
First off, nice treyf joke.
Second off, I don't think that was the point of the question. I looked through the references I have on kashrut, and couldn't find anything specific. Butter is fine as long as it is from a kosher animal. Perhaps it was a meaty knife? All in all, I think that part of the joke is a little vague.
What you need to understand in order to understand the joke, Shane, is that the kosher laws are not simply about cleanliness and food safety. They are concerned with moral issues. Thus, the rule about milk and meat is based in the concept that it is cruel and immoral to eat the meat of the calf with the milk of the mother. Adding insult to injury, as it were.
Because it's a moral lesson, it's expanded to include _all_milk and meat--meat of any and every kind, and milk products of any and every kind. The idea is that whenever you restrict yourself to suit the laws, you are reminded of the moral lesson.
--Alex
I normally don't pass along jokes, but I found this one so amusing and appropriate to these times that I trust you'll indulge me. Also, I have a question at the end. Thanks.
THE VISITOR
This evening, the doorbell rang. We live in a predominantly Jewish suburban neighborhood of single-family houses, a demographic fact known far and wide.
I opened the door and was greeted by a nicely dressed man. "I have
come to bring Jesus to your home," he said.
I reacted almost immediately and asked, "Is he coming for dinner?"
The man said, "He will come any time you are ready."
Aha, I had a live one. "Well, tonight we're having a stir fry.
Does Jesus like chicken?" I asked.
The man's eyes glazed slightly.
"I don't know if he still keeps kosher, after all these years," I
continued, "but this is a kosher home, so he'll be able to eat."
The man fumbled into a briefcase and handed me a printed brochure,
which I ignored.
"If he wants to daven Mincha before he comes, the shul is only three
blocks from here," I said.
He gulped, "What?"
I repeated my statement and added, "You mean Jesus Christ, don't you?"
He nodded.
I continued, "Born in Bethlehem?"
He nodded and started to back away from my door.
I smiled and said, "If that's the guy, he's Jewish."
As he started to turn away, I said, "You're invited too, but no butter
on your dinner roll." and the guy almost ran down the walk.
My wife asked me who was at the door and I told her, "Some friend of
Jesus."
She knows me. She shrugged. "And did you invite him in?" she asked.
I nodded, "Sure. I invited him and Jesus to dinner, but the guy ran
away."
She walked back into her office, and said over her shoulder, "You
don't speak Aramaic, dummy. Jesus would have a lousy evening here."
I told you, she knows me. I forgot all about the language problem.
++++++++++++++++
My question is about keeping kosher. It is my understanding that you are not supposed to combine animal by-products with the animal flesh when you eat: A milk shake and cheeseburger, for example. In this joke, only chicken, a dinner roll, and butter are mentioned. Why can't the visitor have butter on his dinner roll?
Alejandro,
Your description of the environs surronding the House of Blues (aka Wrigley Field) and the majority of folks that go there, is dead on target. Especially, the knuckleheads that now populate the bleacher section. Once the home of hardcore Cubs fans who knew the game of baseball, the bleachers are now just one big singles bar.
Well, Rick, if you ever do venture to this here neck of the woods, let us Windy City webderlanders know, OK? Maybe we could all get together then, stuff our mouths silly with some fine Chicago cuisine (say Pizzeria Uno? Berghoff's?) and then drink ourselves under the table. Although I should be careful as to what I wish for. I am discovering that my alcohol tolerance is dwindling the older I get. (Man, back in the good old days I used to drink an entire pitcher of Long Island Ice Teas and still walk a straight line to my dorm.)
Now if we could convince Harlan to visit good old Chicago and show how much the damn city has and has not changed…After all, we still do have a Daley in power, and a shrewder, smarter and ill-humoured one at that.
I should mention that for a time I lived but seven scant blocks from the friendly confines of Wrigley Field, right off the lake which is probably in the opposite direction from Joseph's demesne if he is as close as he claims. I found it a perfectly delightful place to abide, if not for the wind off the lake during walks in the park then for the food, particularly a wonderful little Italian restaurant just a block from my apartment called, if memory serves, Angelina's.
Although the memories of that apartment also carry with them the bittersweet scent of my proposal to my wife there (as we are recently divorced in fashion that still leaves me unable to function in a small number of ways), I wouldn't trade them for the world. I hope to return someday.
I should also mention on the subject of freedom of information that one of my unspoken goals for this site is to one day license the entirety of Harlan's work for electronic usage and store it online for anyone who cares to view it, as well as make it available to whatever form Project Gutenberg takes. I have no doubt it will be many years from now and at no small cost, but then again that's what grand goals are for, is it not?
However, I would not dream of daring to set the first toe into those waters at a time when the man and his loved ones are still depending upon those works for a modicum of income and security. It seems to me than many of those people who claim "information wants to be free" are consumers of said information rather than those who make their living from its production. And as for those who DO produce information and then give it its freedom, well, they are to be lauded for their generosity but their actions should not be construed as an indictment of those who use what they create to deliver food to their mouth.
Whoops - that should be: lptrixie.com. No "s".
Alejandro -
Luckily, I don't have to drive, as I work downtown and can simply take the 22 and 151 buses. So far this year, we've only had one really bad night game (last Thursday, actually). The absolute worst is when the hordes of Cardinal fans invade, though they at least don't get smashed (after all, they still have a drive back to St. Louis).
Speaking of bozettes and Cubs games, take a look at lptrixies.com. A great parody site about "Lincoln Park Trixies" and their obsessioon with Starbucks, green Jettas and socializing at Wrigley Field (the game, of course, is secondary). Anyone who wants to see the snobbish aspect of my neighborhood can find it highlighted right there.
That said, I do enjoy occasionally taking in a game at Wrigley. It's a great place to watch baseball.
Joseph:
You live three blocks away from Wrigley? You poor, poor man. How do you do it. How do you put up with the noise and the hordes of overgrown frat boys and sorority girls that invade Lakeview during a Cubs game?
(For people living outside the Chicago area, the environs surrounding historic Wrigley field are today occupied by dozens of bars and restaurants which makes driving or walking through the area a real pain in the tuckus during Cubs games. Particularly when most of the people who invade Lakeview are not really Cubs fans but bozos and bozettes who use the game as an excuse to get annoyingly drunk.)
I feel for you, man, I really do.
Ray,
Hey, we won too! We're FINALLY in double digits. I pray that this is the return of "Winning Ugly."
Joseph,
I absolutely love that old Steve Goodman tune (in fact I love ALL of his tunes) and have it on nifty 45 RPM vinyl somewhere.
As a long suffering fan of da Cub, I feel your pain and the pain of all Sox fans during this gut-wrenching, nightmare of a season they're having.
Oh, by the way the Cubs won again last night :)
Well, this is depressing.
For a week now, I've been linking one of my book sites to Ellison Webderland, with a special link directly to Harlan's "KICK" appeal. I also included a poll on the issue. Mind you, this is an area heavily travelled by writers and bibilophiles. Here's the result so far:
Pirating or Trading?
Should story uploads be permitted online?
Yes. Information wants to be free!
78%
No! Copyrights protect all writers!
21%
This is what we're up against, folks. "Information wants to be free." Faz baz. Reminds me of the bullship we used to use in the sixties about "liberating" things we wanted from stores.
Wasn't Cookie Cogan a character in Stephen Dobyn's "The Church of Dead Girls"?
Anyhoo, Alejandro, I actually live only three blocks from Wrigley. Guess which ones and try to find me!
Hello all,
David - Harlan mentioned in passing that THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON was due out this month.
Kerry
On the Naming of Children:
There is a peculiar white-trash tradition in my family of naming children, especially first children after progenitors. There are many "Eugene"'s in my family, back to the mid-1800s. My grandfather's oldest boy is my dear (alcoholic, as-of-the last decade or more reformed) Uncle Gene who treated me to my first beer and who always took healthy interest in me.
My grandfather's name was "Kelsey". As my grandmother (his wife) named my father "Horace" for her grandfather, I named my son Kelsey after my esteemed grandfather.
What burns me is that "Kelsey" (or its variants Kelsy, Chelsea with the hard Greek "chiros", and Kelsi)are modern-day girl names. Luckily, we have the celebrity Kelsey Grammer to point to this fine, earthy male name, but then folks assume I'm a crazy "Cheers" and "Frasier" fan (which I am to extent, but only insofar as I dig what I dig and am enthusiastic within reason: i.e. I don't tape shows nor do I memorize episodes nor have I watched every one of them faithfully).
I have ALWAYS hated my given name which was a very popular 60s moniker: "Lauri." You guys remember "Laurie Partridge," right???
You KNOW how HE feels about the "Laurie," "Lori," "Lorey"s!!!
(first correspondence with HE and he nailed it! He was once married to a woman of that name. He understands the spelling issue. Which is why I far prefer to be addressed as my professional name: "Cookie Coogan." Stripper, 'ho,' drag queen, entertainer: its all the same fabulous glamorous thing! Note: I am none of the above, just a humble jazz singer and modern day griot. Feed me. Flatter me. Allow me to sing. I'll tell you ALL the news IMO).
Anyway, enough manic rambling! I love this board. I've been here since I first got on the Internet several years ago and the level of discussion and esprit du corps is always invigorating.
Joseph Finn mentioned:
> Okay, odd question of the day. The most popular
> baby names of 2000 are out (look here at
> http://www.womencentral.msn.com/babies/articles/babynames.asp > for the full list). Obviously, I'm on it. Has
> anyone ever felt offended that they're not on
> it (or, for that matter, trumped by a fake name
> like Kaylee)?
I have no feelings either way, at least in comparison to me. I do find tricky spellings and highfalutin' names a little silly or pretentious, take your pick.
Looking back in decades past, I find it curious that my name peaked just about the time I was born -- number 1 in 1960 -- then creeped steadily downward each decade (2nd, 4th, 5th) to settle in the high teens ever since the mid 1990s. How do these trends develop? (What would HE have named a child if he found himself burdened with one...?)
David Loftus
And hey, Ray started it (he whines pointing accusatory finger at Ray who is hiding in the corner.)
Joseph:
Touché
(Funny thing is that I am not even a Cubs fan. Bus as good northsider I can't quite stop myself from succumbing to temptation and nagging our good neighbors to the South.
Also, since I work for a Tribune-owned entity, I feel it my duty to defend all things Tribune. Thus has spoken da zombie.)
Addendum: And if you believe any of the above I have some fine real estate in Indiana I could sell you for a buck.
Whoops, the post below is from me...
Alejandro,
Hmmm....nasty comment coming to mind...
But, I'll let Steve Goodman speak for me:
"Now friends, the law of averages says/
That anything will happen that can/
That's what it says/
But the last time the Cubs/
Won a National League pennant/
Was the year we dropped the bomb on Japan."
---"A Dying Cub Fan's Lament"
Now, now, Ray, don't tease our poor neighbors of the south:)
Hey, hey/holy mackerel/no doubt about it/the Cubs are on their way!
Okay, odd question of the day. The most popular baby names of 2000 are out (look here at http://www.womencentral.msn.com/babies/articles/babynames.asp for the full list). Obviously, I'm on it. Has anyone ever felt offended that they're not on it (or, for that matter, trumped by a fake name like Kaylee)?
Oh, an apologies to anyone actually named Kaylee. I should say that it is a fake spelling of Ceilidh, a Gaelic name of great vintage.
Dear Folks of Webderland:
Can we all join hands, swear an oath and make a pact NOT to respond to anymore of Mr. Waters' stupid comments and goofy lists of all the crap he's written. Who cares about this doofus?
Ahhh ... a day that includes a phone call from Harlan Ellison is a GOOD day. Just got off the phone wid da Man, and I feel great, even though he was calling to inform me he would not/could not grant the favor I wrote a letter last week to ask of him. Oh well, that's life. On to Shere Hite and Nancy Friday and Erica Jong and maybe Ken Kesey and Jack Lemmon....
Anyone seen the new edition of _The Essential Ellison_ yet?
David Loftus
Threaded under *61:
I am anxiously awaiting the release of this film on video (as I don't get HBO). I think my love of all things baseball is one of those secret passions that arises when one perpetually chases down childhood memories of perfection, of clearly defined universes where the good guys wear one uniform and the bad guys wear another. I haven't lived in Houston for sixteen years but my eye will always follow the 'Stros scores as they scroll across the reader at Jerry's. And I will never forget the few summers that my mom and dad paid general admission for us to sit behind third base, and Nolan Ryan signed my placard before his fifth no-hitter. Local boy makes good. His given name is the same as mine. And the Dodgers still suck.
Coming back to the sport years later in Baltimore's own version of the Church of Baseball, Camden Yards, I found that the game still holds the magic for me. Red brick, green grass, the blinking "O" in the Orioles' scoreboard, and that sound, that perfect sound of leather hitting ash. Cal Ripken, Jr. was the designated hero, and Seattle's Ken Griffey, Jr. his nemesis at the plate. All was right in the world for a few hours.
C.
mka Lynn Tanner, 31F, divorced twice, database programmer, recovering from a deliciously painful Catalina sunburn.
PS. Anyone else listen to NPR's 30th Anniversary retrospectives last week? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?
"A kiss may not be the truth, but it is what we wish were true." Harris K. Telemacher, LA Story
Nothing against Khalil Gibran, though I never thought "The Prophet" was that hot, but I think the Postal Service commissioners probably contain at least a few people who have been to too many weddings where his work was trotted out again and again to ever put him on a stamp....
Mr. Waters entered the following:
clay waters
jersey city, nj - Monday, May 7 2001 7:14:55
I just don't appreciate being called an attention whore
clay waters
jersey city, nj usa - Tuesday, May 1 2001 15:4:48
By The Way, I Get All My Ideas From Harlan Ellison
That ought to get his attention.
Clay -
Your supposition that I called you an attention whore because you post work on your website is unfounded. Although I stopped doing the same for the most part over two years ago, I continue to support and condone the practice.
As for your other comments:
Harlan Ellison had his first short story published (or, to use your term, "editor-validated") in 1949 - I believe at the age of 14. His first professional sale was a cartoon appearing in Imagination Stories of Science and Fantasy, July 1952 - he'd have been 18. He began making regular sales of short stories and/or essays at age 21.
As far as your list: I was more than clear about asking for only professional sales. Only the two articles you list qualify, since in your first e-mail to me (which I did read and reply to before killfiling you) you mention the other publications did not pay.
The clearly-stated intention of asking for your professional published works was to compare your list with Harlan's. I feel no need to compare myself to you, and in fact I commend you on getting paid for your work. My point, which I consider well made at this point, is that Harlan continues, at an age where many men have retired, to outproduce most people who complain about his lack of "productivity".
What I have or have not published, like inumerable other aspects of my personal life, is none of your business. Your request is, in fact, an attempt to divert this into a personal discussion and comparison which draws attention away from examining the hypocritical nature of your unkind remarks about how Harlan chooses to spend his days. That's an obvious straw man tactic I choose not to respond to.
Likewise, you have no inherent right to bother me in my private life, and that includes demanding that your personal e-mails to me be read. If you're looking for indicators as to why I might call you an attention whore, well; publicizing my request for you to stop harassing me in my personal e-mail inbox (and characterizing that request as "censorship") is one of them.
I've now wasted fifteen minutes better spent on other pursuits responding to this, I don't intend to do so again. You are welcome to have the last word - please realize if you use it to ask questions or make accusations I will likely not respond.
Rick Wyatt: "Clay--I'll need to know the date range over which these were published before I can look into comparing them to Harlan's credits over the same period."
I will never match Harlan Ellison. Though apparently we had our first story published at the age of 21, I am sure I've fallen far behind--I think he wrote "Croatoan" at my age, and I'll be lucky to create something similar, no matter how many years I have left.
I just don't appreciate being called an attention whore (for having the audacity to place copies of my own published work on my website) by someone who also posts his creative work on his personal website but either can't or won't say where it's been published.
I'll be happy to stop clogging the HE discussion board and discuss this in private if you'll stop censoring my email.
61* crowd: Thanks for the feedback. It's nice to know that those of you who have an affinity for that baseball "world" share my judgement that it's a well-crafted, solid piece of work. I can now recommend it to my dad with confidence that it really is good, and not that it was only effective because I didn't know anything about the story to begin with, which was what I was afraid of.
On that bibliography: To quote Rogers and Hammerstein: "Who gives a damn?"
A question was asked recently about the HBO film "61*". Here's my take.
It's a description of the pre-free agent days, containing many marvelous side stories. Yogi Berra ("Mickey's whatya call ambidextrial."). The black catcher recalling how he couldn't get served while playing minor league ball down South and how Mickey ate on the bus with him. How Maris and Mantle maintained their friendship in spite of the pressure and frenzy whipped up by the press, the fans and the commissioner's office, which disputed the validity of breaking the Babe's record because of eight additional games in the new schedule (it's interesting that, when Sandy Koufax broke the single season strike-out record, there was no distinction made in the length of the season).
The press went looking for a story, couldn't find one that they felt was big enough, so things began being taken out of context and inflated to serve the purpose of the newspapers. The commissioner, Babe Ruth's long-ago ghost writer, wanted nothing to detract from the legend he felt he had created. And the fans attacked with the fervor of religious zealots anything that threatened the status quo (more people seeking their fifteen minutes), with responses ranging from abusive language to death threats, and having no logical reason for their ugly behavior..
It's a team sport; yet many so-called fans seem only capable of remembering the achievements of individuals, particularly from the plate. Few can recall the weak-hitting shortstop who saved more than a few games by efficiently turning the double-play, or the outfielder with such incredible speed and instinct that he makes every catch look easy. Would there have been the same response if Mickey had approached the record instead of Maris? How many of you out there know what it's like to be ostracized and critiqued, when all you're trying to do is just do your job the best you can?
It was also about how events, even a single decision, can alter someone's life forever (Mickey's wild nightlife and the disastrous effect of poor medical advice). The cast, director, writers, cinematographer, etc. provided very realistic portraits of the people involved in these events. Not deified; they are real people (with other thoughts, needs and obligations) that don't just come to life at the ballpark.
(Side note: earlier this week, Bob Costas aired a song by the composer who gave us "Willie, Mickey and the Duke." This one was about the free-agents' cry "It's not about the money." When the Montreal Expos released Andre Dawson, thinking he was too old and too injured to continue being productive, he signed a $500,000 contract with the Chicago Cubs just to "show them what he could do." Andre Dawson became the only player to win the league MVP award while playing for a last-place team.)
Billy Crystal got the opportunity to expand on that scene from "City Slickers," the one where he's telling his friends about his first time at Yankee Stadium. Seeing the field and "that great, green copper roof." Seeing Mickey Mantle hit one out of the park. Billy got to do what a lot of us would like to do; he showed us a cherished memory the way he experienced it.
I didn't learn the game at home, I learned it at school. Years later, when my son decided he wanted to play Little League ball, I helped as much as I could, playing catch, flip drills, batting cages, reading "The Science of Hitting" by Ted Williams. One of the nicest things he ever said to me was that I wasn't like the other fathers, because I never took credit for what he accomplished on the field.
I went to my first major league game when I was an adult. It wasn't a ballpark, more like a huge concrete donut. Then I saw that Paul O'Neill and Jim Abbott were warming up in the outfield. The ritual is so universal; the continuity so perfect. Nowadays, we go to see the local Northern League team. Along with the older players trying to get one more shot, there's also the young players pursuing a dream. You should see their families in the stands. The look in the eyes of the Negro League veterans who came out to the park one day when they saw the pitcher, a young man of color, go into a wind-up and high leg kick and deliver to the white catcher behind the plate; thinking of dreams deferred and what they helped to make possible. Or Al Weis of the '69 Miracle Mets, getting berated by a diehard Cubs fan, and finally telling the guy, "Hey, pal, that was thirty-some years ago - get over it!"
"Pride of the Yankees," "Bang the Drum Slowly," "Bingo Long," "Major League," "The Scout," "A League of Their Own," "A Talent for the Game," "Bull Durham."
"This field, this game...it's a part of our past. It reminds us of all that is good and could be again."
The movie "61*"? It was okay. Very.
David--okay, okay, you got me. Here I lie, impaled on word choice. For what it's worth, whether you consider yourself a writer or not, I consider you one. You've paid your dues, built your credentials, and I look forward to seeing your book once it's published. So some of your earlier works were for-hire or in-house! We've all been there. Truth be told, some of my favorite work started in a for-hire situation. I've never had so much fun writing as I did in the early nineties, writing horror comic shorts for TSR. And some of the worst: I once wrote the documentation on a nuclear reactor. The only thing that saved that job from being pure Creative Typing was that I actually managed to do it despite having no technical training whatsoever. I give myself credit for spunk on that one.
A professional writer sometimes writes to order. Sometimes on spec. And sometimes in the great grey zones between. The pro defends his rights as well as he can, and walks away sometimes. And, harsh though it sounds, the simple dividing line between the pro and the wannabe is often no more than "were you paid in cash...or did they offer you free copies?" The former is a credential. The latter is egoboo, and a little dab won't do ya.
--alex
I fixed the line breaks in Andrew Burt's post. I'd like to add to his recommendations for prospective workshopers that another good restriction is to ask the writer of the piece to hold off on answering questions or making comments or replying to criticism until everyone has had their "go" at it. I've found if you don't do this it tends to put the kibosh on some people's comments and also can lead to arguments or feelings of being beseiged. The speculations that can arise if the author does not answer suppositions immediately can also be interesting and let the author know where they have been unclear or given a misleading impression.
SOURCERY is an excellent introduction to Pratchett's work, and one of his best jobs at turning a familiar myth or metaphor over on its back. I'd also highly recommend THE COLOUR OF MAGIC and MORT for those who haven't checked him out yet. While the Discworld books stand on their own, there's a certain cumulative effect you miss if you start on the later ones. And of course for Gaiman I guess you'd absolutely have to grab a few of the SANDMAN graphic novels to get a feel for his style before you tackle the other books. THE KINDLY ONES is probably my favorite of the collections, although reading it first may spoil some of the earlier stuff.
Clay - thanks for the bibliography. 8 short stories and a dozen some odd poems is nothing to sneeze at - I'm assuming of course they are all paid publications. I'll need to know the date range over which these were published before I can look into comparing them to Harlan's credits over the same period.
Quoting Rick Wyatt: those of you "writers" who come here to censure Harlan for his lack of outputplease be so kind as to include as an as an addendum a list of your PROFESSIONAL...PRINT...PUBLICATIONS.
You can do so for any period from the present backwards (once again, for the slow to catch on that's PRINT publications, not navel musings on some website)." end quote
Glad to oblige, Mr. Wyatt.
Clay Waters short stories published in print:
Starsong Magazine, “Aster Bunny”
Slugfest, Ltd., “Charlotte’s History Lesson”
Dodobobo, “…Gifts For Nobody”
The Nocturnal Lyric, “Last Resident”
Iconoclast, “Pawns”
Fantasque, “Spin”
The Santa Barbara Review, “Grotesque”
Liquid Ohio, “Abduction”
Poems published in print:
Exit 13, "California 1983" and "Passenger Pigeon"
Conservative Review, "With Martha S. After The War"
Poet Lore, "Returning To Lebenswelt"
Blood and Fire Review, "Acropolis For One"
Maelstrom, "Plane Ride"
Devil Blossoms, "With Martha S. After The War" reprint
New Delta Review, "Syringe"
Frisson, "SpiderSex"
Onionhead, “Fade Away and Radiate (Does Anyone Die In This Picture?), “305 Abilene Nursing Home #11”
Grasslands Review, “Exercises for cheekbone and ankle”
Mankato Poetry Review, “Immaculate”
Nebo, “Young Lady Morris Bathes In 1758”
Sepulchre, “Original Sin”
The Lucid Stone, “The Lady Of The House”
Articles in print:
Human Events, political article "A Black Man Discovers Africa"
The American Enterprise, book review "Half-Baked Generation"
Short Stories published on Web:
Satire.org, “We’d All Like To Think That”
NY Hangover, short story “Toshi Gumball…”
NY Hangover, short story Winch Mistress
NY Hangover, short story “Highway Games”
Rick --
I just reread Good Omens and while I was struck in a million little ways with "oh my, isn't that clever" (especially the short order cook at the Burger Lord and Death later on at the Trivia Scrabble machine saying "I NEVER TOUCHED HIM") I never really got the full satisfying enjoyment I get from say, one of Pratchett's Discworld novels, or the sheer sweet absurdity of Gaiman's story "Grail." I've heard rumors that the story wasn't so much a collaboration as it was Gaiman coming up with an idea and some scenes before passing the torch along to Pratchett to try and pull it off. That's the version I heard. It's probably apocryphal.
Speaking of apocryphal. If you want to read Pratchett doing an even better job of hashing up the end of the world, read Sourcery, which has just been rereleased in paperback. Only, in Pratchett's discworld-ese, its the apocrylips, and the four horsemen run late.
---Peter
Alex said he disagreed with my comment that I tend to think of writers as people who support themselves solely through their writing.
This is a just a pleasant, friendly disagreement, you understand, but really, Alex, it is not possible for you to disagree with what I "tend to think." You can only state your own, differing opinion. I made a statement of personal opinion -- of taste, not of fact ... and in fact I contradicted myself later in my post by saying that since I have a book coming out next winter, I guess I can consider myself a writer. (You'll note that I said I authored two books in the Eighties, but those were commissioned works that I did in-house at a small fledgling press -- I knew before I started to research and write that they would be published. This new book is one I thought up all by myself and wrote before I ever began to search for someone to publish it, so I consider it my first "real" book.)
Jeff posed the question: does the literature (or simply, books) that one read(s) influence one's writing? But of course it does. However, if I can guess at the tenor of your question, I suspect a more accurate answer would be yes and no.
Yes, reading good writing tends to make one's own writing better. It can even make one sound like what one has just been reading -- briefly, superficially. (See Stephen King's comments on this subject in the foreward to Ellison's _Stalking the Nightmare_.) But does it in fact shape one's writing, one's style in the direct manner that I think your question aims at? I'm not so sure. Perhaps not. I think it's more a general thing, that one becomes more sensitive to the sound and accuracy of words, the shape of thoughts in sentence form.
After all, my personal favorite writers are, say, Ellison and John Fowles and Timothy Findley and Ray Bradbury and M.F.K. Fisher and James Ellroy.... These writers could hardly be more different from one another, save that they write with passion and sensitivity and integrity and personal force. And I would be hard pressed, for the most part, to say that anything I write remotely resembles their work. Yet their writing has to have influenced me in some way. There's just no way of being able to state how.
David Loftus
Denver, eh? Wave. Frantically. I'm north of you. About fifteen minutes from the border.
Until next time. . .
(And sorry for the line breaks in the formatting; I'd composed off-line & pasted in. Ya never know how a given site handles word wrap. :-)
(I fixed them - Ed.)
Howdy, everyone, Harlan (or perhaps Harlan-by-proxy? :-)...
Harlan's suggestion to Justin vis-a-vis workshopping to
track down Ed Bryant led Justin to me (Andrew Burt), since
I'm the administrative head of Ed's workshop here (the
NCWW - Northern Colorado Writers' Workshop - www.ncww.org -
and FYI, the place folks like Connie Willis & Dan Simmons
got their start). I passed the invitation along to Ed,
and he said he'd check it out if he had a moment, but Ed
runs in about three billion directions at once, thus it's
not entirely likely he'll make it here if he hasn't yet.
So I figured I'd chime in, not only as the NCWW's official
grand poobah but also as the founder of the Critters
workshop on the net (http://www.critters.org, home to
a couple thousand authors from newbie to award winning)
and as someone who's learned a tremendous amount about
critiquing from folks like Ed. It's fair to say I have
some definite thoughts on workshopping. :-) Apologies
for the delay (I'm CEO of a busy Internet company,
LocalFrontPage.com), and I can't say how long I'll
have time to hang around (especially given the volume
of unthreaded postings; count me squarely in favor of
threading! :-) -- is there at least a search box around
somewhere so if I come back after an absence I can gather
up all the messages about workshopping? Other, that is,
than using the pathetic page-search "find" in Netscape or
Explorer; yech. But if that's the best there is, make
sure you mention "workshop" in any followups to this if
you want me to find them!)
If I recall, Harlan said he thought the only workshop
worth spit was one that had top-notch pro writers in it;
and that there was nothing to be gained from a workshop
comprised of people at your own level or below.
All due respect to Harlan, but Good Writers do not equal
Good Critiquers. First -- I agree there is a rough
correlation; I agree that well published pros often have
terrific insight into the practicalities of the market
and possibly into a given story; I agree there are lot of
non-pro losers out there to avoid; I agree to the extent
that I would never *pay* for a workshop that wasn't lead
by pros with decent credits. And I confess that both the
workshops I shepherd along have eminent members so this
may sound hypocritcal.
So stipulating all that -- I firmly believe that one -can-
construct a useful workshop setting that lacks pro authors,
and one -can- gain valuable insight from non-pro authors,
(or even non-authors). The key is that all readers have
valid opinions of a work they read. (To my mind, it's the
author's fault, not the readers, when a sizable sample of
random readers from the intended audience doesn't "get"
a piece. If you have a piece in Asimov's, and tons of
Asimov's readers say "huh?" or "phew! yeck!" then that's
the author's fault!) Reader opinions are valid -- and
that's exactly what non-pro authors are who read your work
in a workshop -- simply because all workshop critiques
*are* personal opinions. Conversely, I've known many top
notch writers who give awful critiques. They may be more
skilled at craft, but that doesn't mean they can explain
it; or they may just happen to hate a piece that other
folks like. (P___, a respected editor at Tor, has said
publicly that he really hates Dune and can't get into it
no matter how hard he tries; that he finds the writing
just awful. He recognizes that it's beloved as one of
the best SF works ever, but he personally can't see why.
Which is fine -- it's his opinion -- but it underscores
the concept that being high powered in the industry does
not make one a perfect fount of critiquing wisdom. :-)
So here's what *I* think you want to find/create in
a workshop:
- People who read the kind of work you write.
- A diversity of people -- you could clone Harlan or Ed
and get them to say the same thing ten times, but
what's the point? You want a wide range of responses,
mostly from people who read in the area you write, but
definitely from people who also read widely and are at
all ends of various spectra (men, women, gun-totin'
conservatives, tree-huggin' liberals, rich, poor,
Analog-lovin' SF readers, Realms-o-Fantasy lovers, etc.
etc. etc.).
- People who are honest.
- But: Set guidelines on the tone of critiques: They
should be delivered against the work itself, not the
author. And here's a secret -- one thing I've found,
over and over during the past few decades, not just
in critiques, but in running a large Internet service
provider (I founded the world's first free ISP, Nyx.net,
while I was a comp.sci. professor at the U. of Denver)
where we encouraged free speech via the Internet, and
thus I got a lot of crap from people who didn't like what
some folks posted:-- If you want the author to understand
your critique, it's not what you say, but How You Say It.
Harlan will probably disagree, but what the hell, I'm
stubborn enough to say it here :-). (Harlan has a bit of
a reputation for being brutal in critiques. Of course,
he also has the publishing credits to make one want to
listen to whatever he says, no matter how he says it.)
However, if Joe Shmoe stuffs your ears up your anus in a
critique, most authors will simply tune out the message
(that the piece has problems in that reader's opinion)
and get all huffy about the phrasing, so they Don't
Hear the opinions. It's human nature. The best way to
avoid it is to take the Ed Bryant approach, of tactfully
fileting a story. When in doubt, skewer politely. It's
just an application of "write for your audience"; in a
critique, you have an audience of One. Honest Diplomacy
is the policy in Critters, and with thousands of members
who seem to find the quality of critique quite high,
it's only rarely that problems crop up. When they do,
usually they're from critiquers who say "But I have to
be honest!" and aren't writer enough to recognize that
"Your character Bob stinks; make him more dynamic" (a
demand from someone not in a position to make a demand)
will be better received by the one-person audience as
"Bob wasn't dynamic enough for me" (a statement of
personal opinion). Or even worse, "Readers won't find
Bob dyanmic enough" (making global statements about
what other people will think! -- said to bolster the
critiquers's weak ego, etc.). Trust me -- attacking
from a position of power in a critique only works if
you -have- power over the author (and as Ed Bryant
demonstrates, it's always effective disembowel politely
even when you do hold the high ground). And the old saw,
"Everything one says in an essay is the personal opinion
of the author so you don't need to say it"? -- well,
it don't really work dat way: Usually one is trying to
persuade the reader in an essay. Critiques should never
be attempts to persuade the writer to Write Like Me.
*That* is the most destructive thing a workshop can do,
and the most common complaint about them. Avoid it by
having diverse members and by explicitly reminding the
author that what you say is just your opinion.
In fact, I'd point folks to two articles I've written on
the matter of optimal phrasing to get one's point across
in critiques (else why waste your time writing a critique,
if not to communicate effectively?). The page also has
an article of Ed's, and many other thoughts on writing,
workshopping, and critiquing. It is:
http://www.critters.org/resources.html
Lastly, I'd like to address the quality of critiques
that one receives from non-pro authors. While I'm a
baby in the pro world, only one novel and a bunch of
short stories, I've heard the same sentiment from pros
with awards & dozens of novels to the credit: that
the critiques in Critters -- largely non-pros -- are
extraordinarily helpful. (There's a testimonials page
on the site if you want to see folks actually saying how
it's helped them.) And perhaps the best exemplification
of the process is that workshop folks are, based on some
(perhaps biased, I suppose) statistical analysis I've
done, about ten times more likely to make pro sales than
non-workshoppers. Personally, on the whole, I've found the
comments from non-pros to be just as insightful as those
from super-pros. But only if they're honest. I agree with
Harlan, you want to avoid a workshop comprised solely of a
back-patting ground of grannies afraid to tell the truth.
Just remember, that "honest" is not the same as "mean."
As Ed is proof of, you can convey any bad news you want
in a courteous manner -- and it works!
Really Lastly, I'll also point everyone to yet more
workshop/writing related pages I maintain that you might
find of use:
- http://www.critique.org/critfinder -- a place to announce
or locate local workshops
- http://www.critique.org/blackholes -- a submission
response time tracker I run for SFWA
- and while I'm at it, a plug for David Brin/Analog's Webs
of Wonders contest, to encourage the use of SF in
teaching, with a cash prize(!), and for which I'm a
judge -- the site is at http://www.analogsf.com/wow
I'm curious to see what kind of hornet's nest I've stirred
up, but before y'all go flaming off about what I said
above, I heartily encourage you to first read the articles
about critiquing and phrasing that I pointed out.
Thanks to Harlan & all of you for the invitation to the
soapbox.
Regards,
Andrew Burt
I'm all for supporting the works of both Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett. I think both are terrific humorists and creators of myth. I can't wait to read AMERICAN GODS.
It was puzzling to me to find their collaboration GOOD OMENS a bit of a disappointment. A funny book to be sure, hilarious in some places, but also devolving into cliche in others and lacking the solid core I've come to expect out of even Pratchett's most obvious morality plays. Perhaps the whole is not always greater than the sum of its parts?
I usually wouldn't bother to correct typos, but... accepted? Oy. Strike that, put in excepted.
John: That's an interesting idea. Present company accepted, I think I'd vote either Hemingway or Heinlein.
De-lurking quick-like: Shane: Thank you. Will do. Sorry for not responding sooner. Been putting together my own message boards (replete with loads of Red Green duct tape), writing, publishing, and chasing my own tail. Apologies for not responding sooner. Many thanks, again.
Lurk mode on. (Long, serious pants and Arteste smoking jacket off.)
Until next time. . .
Busy, busy, busy. Wish I had more time to comment here. First, a short note to Cookie: would that I could hear your song sample, the recipient of such fulsome praise from others on the board. Alas, one of my daughters loaded some software onto my computer (her own not being good enough, I suppose), answered "yes" to the "would you like to make this your default?" question, and now my file associations are all screwed up. Your file won't play on my machine until I take a machete to the system files and put the file associations back to the correct program settings.
Second, in answer to Cavalaxis, I'm a writer, an editor, a consumer and, when it comes to Harlan, a fan-boy. I'll always carry a bit of awe for Harlan; he made too big an impression on me in the sixties for it to be otherwise.
BUT--David Loftus said something in that message thread with which I must disagree. To wit: "I tend to think of writers as people who support themselves solely through their writing." Not so, sir. Many good, even superlative writers simply do not make a living at it. T'is a pity, but t'is true. For example:
Part of my job involves choosing books to feature on CompuServe's Books Channel. In setting up a feature around the new Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman novels, I met a new publicist at the publisher. Jack Womack. Hmm, thought I, that name's familiar. And so it was. Jack's one of only two other people I've met in the industry who went to my alma mater, Transylvania University (yes, really). (And the other alum is Jodi Offut, by the way.) Jack's working as a publicist these days, good for him.
But I also discovered that Jack's a novelist. A _good_ novelist, recipient of the Philip K. Dick Award for his book "Elvissey." I'm midway into his latest, "Going Going Gone." Let me testify: he's a DAMN good novelist.
But he still has to work a day job.
It would be nice if all writers made a living by writing. But the reality is otherwise. Alas!
--alex
Hello to everyone (and of course, Harlan himself),
I'm new to the Bulletin Board and wanted to say hello and introduce myself. I've read some of the comments in the archives and hope I'm not out of my league here by posting. I'm new to Harlan Ellison's work, mostly because I do my own fiction writing and don't allow myself much free time to explore what he writes. I hope to be a continuing part of this little community and engaging in interesting dialogue with you all soon.
Thanks,
Wallace Cass
http://blyre.tripod.com
I second Charlie's vote for Kahlil Gibran to be featured on a
stamp and would like to see William Faulkner on one.
Does anyone have a bibliography of the printed works of Rick Wyatt? I requested a copy from the author himself, but got the form letter below back instead.
Or is he just an 'attention whore' (his phrase) who puts unpublished poetry on his site? If this is true, and I'm still waiting for the author's confirmation, I can only say that if my linking to my own editor-validated writing is whoring for attention, what do you call someone who links to his own unpublished writing?
At least my writing links are to validated pieces of writing--you know, stuff some editor somewhere on earth found worthwhile.
At 03:53 PM 5/5/01 -0400, you wrote:
If you're receiving this, you have been entered into my e-mail
killfile. Your message has been deleted and this response automatically
sent without my ever reading it.
The Telecommunications Act of 1984 makes it a criminal offense to use any
telecommunications system with intent to cause annoyance or distress. Your
email has annoyed me as I must either read it or suffer having to reject
real messages and scan my trash for legitimate e-mails. I am putting you
on notice that you must not do this again. Failure to heed this warning
can lead to fines, imprisonment and loss of telephone service.
I'd like to see Khalil Gibran on a stamp. This was attempted a few years back, but the PO nixed it.
Well I'm optimistic that the writer's strike is over. Now I can go to the library and start looking over the new books. Now if I can only convince the Postal Service in the USA to issue stamps honoring "Real Writers & Authors". My first choice would be Asimov. I am just curious as to what author/writer you all would like to see on a stamp?
Way to go, Cookie! nah, that doesn't sound right.. *HUG* Keegs :-) THAT sounds right.. I always knew it was just a matter of time, before that talent of yours punched a hole in the restraining walls. Great news! AND a fabulous song! woo hoo!!
Congratulations Alexjandro! Wow! Impressive. That deserves this big *HUG*. I love it when things work out they way I think they should.
*Quietly fades back into the shadows of lurkerdom*
It still needs to be ratified, but it appears the Writer's Guild and the producers have reached a tentative agreement that will avert the strike - in case you hadn't heard.
Sheryl - I *loved* this film, but I have a discernable bias - I've been a Yankee fan my entire life (contrary to popular belief, we really are nice people when we're not hounding Boston fans). I found it to be dead on accurate with everything I've read on Mantle, Maris, their lives and that season - and I don't know that Billy Crystal could have picked a better juncture in their careers, not just for the record they chased and the drama therein, but for where each was in life in '61: Maris having a career season and not wanting to be under the microscope, and Mantle, facing up to the way he's lived his life (and the undercurrents in the story of what the Mick might have been had he taken better care of himself are, to me, the most heartbreaking aspect of this movie - Mantle's life story is a film waiting to be made, because it truly has layers upon layers that "61*" makes the merest passing references to.)
I've heard some criticisims that the media characters (and especially Maris' problems with the media) are grossly exaggerated in the film. Of course, some of these protests come from - surprise - the media. But I've been there, I've read them, I've watched Mike Lupica switch loyalty and opinion the way some people change lanes on the highway. Historically, the New York sports press has always been like flies on dung when it comes to building up and tearing down the local heroes. And let's face it - the Daily News has never been a bastion of calm, balanced reporting, and the New York Post finished its transformation to tabloid when it trumpeted George Reeves' death with the headline "Superman Kills Self" in the fifties. And since these are the papers we typically see associated with the cheap shot journalism in the film, I have to say the portrayals in general are true to life. At any rate, Mel Allen and Phil Rizzuto (the Yankees' broadcast announcers) are depicted to a "T".
That being said, my father, who was fifteen that year (and has also been a lifetime fan of the pinstripes) hasn't gotten to see "61*" yet (I've been tasked with taping it), but I've rarely seen him so excited to parttake of a film. These were, after all, his boyhood heroes, and I'm looking forward to watching it with him and getting his take on it.
I think the right and left sides of my brain got in a fight; they're trying to bash their way through my temples, he says as he casts from his weary shoulders a sandwhichboard sign reading "Alphabet Soup Tests Are No Fun" on one side and "AIMS = Arizona Instrument to Manipulate Statistics" on the other.
Breathe. Right. The Cubs. Huh. Those poor guys.
Seeing as this is probably the best group to ask, I put to you a question I've been meaning to ask someone: To what extent do you think previously-encountered literature influences a writer's style (or voice, or . . . )--that is to say, how does the "product of one's environment" theory apply to writing, fiction and non? Alternately--and this is mostly addressed to those that write, professionally or no--if you started writing without any exposure of any kind to other authors' work, how do you think the product be different from what you produce now?
Frantically seeking a marriage counselor that moonlights as a brain surgeon,
~Jeff
I have been a Cardinals fan my entire life. I saw 61* and found it to be a very touching and powerful movie. I think that the way Mantle was portrayed was very accurate. He didn't take care of himself and spent a lot of time partying. Maris really was a low key farm boy who just wanted to play ball. Their respective families feel that it was an accurate accounting. What was interesting about the portrayal of the press in "61*" was how familiar it seemed. When Mark McGwire was close to breaking the record set by Maris, people said he was grumpy because he was getting sick of being hounded about it. He literally couldn't go anywhere without someone asking him when he was going to break the record.
Oh, baseball fans! I have a question for you.
I saw the HBO movie “61*” a couple of nights ago, and was wondering how it might have been received by actual baseball fans. I’m not a sports fan, although I’ll go to a Dodger game occasionally, but I barely knew who Mickey Mantle was, never mind Roger Maris. That said, I thought that the story of yellow journalistic dishonesty and tabloidism in that supposedly halcyon period was really quite fascinating, particularly in light of the level of tabloidism we’re experiencing now and condemning as so deplorable. Maybe things haven’t really slid all that much. I don’t know enough about the NY Yankees or the actual people involved to comment on the accuracy of the representation of the people, but as someone who doesn’t really follow sports, much less watch sports movies, I was really pleasantly surprised by how effective the film was overall. Did anyone else see it? What do y’all think?
Ray,
You know, my brain is just mush today. Thanks for the correction.
Speaking of baseball, anyone know if Mr. Ellison ever found that Cleveland Indians World Series mug he was looking for? Just curious - I've never run across one, but I like mugs. I'll have to post a picture of the hideous Ft. Myers beach mug a co-worker kindly brought me back from Florida last week. The handle is the tail of a dolphin that is wrapped around the mug. Kitsch to the extreme. :)
Hey Joe,
Lieber's arm is just fine, thank you very much. Mike Fyhrie is the guy who done got his arm broke with the flying piece 'o' bat. OUCH!
Ray-
Thanks. Your sympathy is overwhelming.
Logging off sarcasm mode, how is Lieber's arm? Guy's been having a hell of a season - horrible way to go out of the game.
Joe,
No need to panic. The Sox are done, stick a fork in 'em. Go Cubs!
Cavalaxis asked:
> Do you consider yourself to be a:
> A) teacher
> B) student
> C) writer (or W*R*I*T*E*R, if you prefer)
> D) reader/consumer
> E) fan of HE's works
> F) other as it relates to sf-f/writing/related subjects
Put me down for C, D, and E. I've been writing nearly all my life -- as a student, as a full-time journalist, as a free-lancer -- but I have been loathe to confer the accolade of "writer" upon myself because I tend to set high standards for the category. I tend to think of writers as people who support themselves solely through their writing. I'm not there, and I may never be there, but I authored and edited a couple books in-house for a small press back in the 1980s, I still do occasional free-lance pieces, and best of all, I have a book coming out next winter, so I guess it's okay to consider myself a writer.
I'm assuming D and E apply to pretty much everybody here, or you wouldn't be here. How might F also apply? Hmmm. I guess I'm "other" in the sense that I review books and films for various web sites, which is not necessarily the same thing as "being a writer."
I'm definitely "other" in the sense that I do a lot of reading aloud -- both to live audiences, friends, and for radio broadcast.
So I guess that's C, D, E, and F for me.
David Loftus
www.david-loftus.com
www.allreaders.com
www.allwatchers.com
www.documentaryfilms.net
Can I start panicking about my White Sox now?
While checking out the Locus website I came upon the heading: SFWA Announces Ellison Award
http://www.locusmag.com/2001/News/News04b.html
Pay heed to the date!
To Jim Hess: Have your Arizona friend go to http://www.harlanellison.com/heboard/shanecm1.txt
for part of my comments about Harlan and Susan's trip here in March of 1999.
... and hey, what was that snippeted song at the end of the track?
Cookie:
Wow.
(Hey, is there an echo in here?)
Sounds a lot like Dianne Schuur when she's not shooting for the stratosphere. Interesting choice, using the vibraphone for that extended riff. Weird, but in my head I was hearing a long harmonica riff like the ones Larry Whassisname (the guy who does a lot of Gershwin compositions) does.
And, just saying that while listening to the song, I also heard an alternate version, without the bass progression-snare/high-hat jazz rhythm section but played as a low-down blues with some funky Delta syncopation, this last punctuated by a Mississippi-mud-by-way-of-Chicago blues harp.
Anyway.
Sehr gut, dear. I kiss in the general direction of your vocal chords.
(and please note: it's one hell of a piece of writing)
No,