Yes...and then there was Frankenheimer: of his masterpieces I've yet to see SEVEN DAYS IN MAY (with a kick-ass, awe-inspiring cast: Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster, Fredric March, Ava Gardner). (Anyone here realize Whit Bissel was probably the most ubiquitous actor in film history? No matter WHAT the movie, SEVEN DAYS or MONSTER ON THE CAMPUS, MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE or I WAS A TEENAGE WEREWOLF, CAINE MUTINY or I WAS A TEENAGE FRANKENSTEIN, MAGNIFICENT SEVEN or THE ATOMIC KID, THE DEFIANT ONES or CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON, there he was for a solid 10 minutes every time. Sorry, Justin 'roused the film geek in me). I also need to see the work Frankenheimer did in Europe.
Phenomenally intelligent director; another massive talent we're going to miss.
(Incidentally, I believe MANCHURIAN was the first film ever to cast a black in a major role not written specifically for a black; and in HIS version of the tea garden dream you noticed, I'm sure, all the ladies being black; well, if you look carefully a WHITE bellboy appears in the background).
Joseph:
12. Add Steven Spielberg, _Close Encounters of the Third Kind._
The Beer question: Well, Dean Stockwell,Pabst is _Blue Velvet._ I wouldn't be surprised if Gary Oldman,Harp is _State of Grace_ and Jeff Bridges,Guinness is _Blown Away._ DeNiro and Rolling Rock? _Jacknife_, mebbe?
Silent movies: You'd think some of the music+images documentaries that include _Baraka_, _Koyaanisquaati_ and _Powasquaati_ would lack dialogue, but I wouldn't bet on it. Warhol's Empire State Building?
Cheers, Jon
Jim,
Steiger in THE PAWNBROKER: Absolutely!
Film geek note: Next time you watch Zhivagho, watch for the scene where Steiger smooches on the succulent Julie Christie in the carriage. She had no idea what he was going to do, and as a result both of their performances were perfect in the scene because of his instincts about what to do, and her genuine resultant surprise. It worked in the same way as the scene between DeNiro and Juliette Lewis in Scorcese's Cape Fear remake, which is the only other example I can think of as far as those kind of improved intimate screen moments goes. I dug Steiger. Last time I saw him was in END OF DAYS, and yet I haven't seen PAWNBROKER or NO WAY TO TREAT A LADY. For shame. Hopefully those last two will be on TCM soon.
I was sad about Frankenheimer too. I saw MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE for the first time ever on AMC Sunday night, before I even heard Frankenheimer had passed. That movie was MESSED UP in the head. Loved it.
Your movie quiz makes me feel like I belong on celebrity Jeopardy.
Cindy
Faisal is the muthafuckin' MAN! High five! I'm excited for you, that's outstanding. I read the script and I thought it was SUPERIOR stuff. If you haven't read it yet, go check it out! I'll repost the link:
http://www.moviepoet.com/mp/mpmain.nsf/fmMain?OpenForm&Main=News&News=3706
I'd be keen to know what your inspiration was for the script??? Again, congrats!
J
Jim,
Personally, I've discounted "Silent Movie" for the reason you mentioned. I'm wracking my brain trying to come up with others....
Regards,
Joseph
Oops. That should've read: "Here ARE some tentative answers..."
The "Preview" Key--it's a good thing.
FAISAL: Congratulations! I'll read it, and tell you what I think.
HARLAN: Thanks. You may be right--I'll have to go over to imdb.com, plug the names in, and see what comes up. I have a feeling that the answer isn't as simple as "Cary Grant and Jimmy Stewart."
Here's some tentative answers to the Movie Quiz from Gehenna (found at http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0226/atkinson_test.php):
6. Fred Thompson.
12. George Lucas--STAR WARS; Orson Welles--MR. ARKADIN. (Haven't come up with a third).
15. B. THE CELL; C. LAST TANGO IN PARIS.
16. SILENT MOVIE (technically, there's one word of dialogue in it--spoken by Marcel Marceau); KOYAANISQUATSI.
20. Maya Deren (?)
My favorite Rod Steiger performance was the title role in THE PAWNBROKER. What a gut-wrenching final scene; to this day, I can't look at a paper spike without thinking about it.
Rod Steiger was perfect. His performance in Dr. Zhivago was awe inspiring.
Cindy
FAISAL!!! You HOUND! Congratulations! I've bookmarked it for later enjoyment. Minor feat my Aunt Fanny! I only hope there is a British version of the NEA grant (which I assume is a BBC commission of sorts) which will allow you or some production company to do something with the script.
Lynn - Plush Cthulhu glares at me from atop the book case, commanding me to snuggle with it tonight. I'm scared.
It's unlikely, but some of you may not know this about Ward Kimball: he led a superlative Dixieland band called THE FIREHOUSE 5 PLUS 2. I urge you to locate any of their records, for a splendid earful of joyous sound.
I met Mr. Kimball on three occasions, and was much enamoured of his good heart, his charming and generous nature, and his seemingly boundless wit. What a loss.
And while I'm mourning, though I never knew him personally, the vanishment of Rod Steiger is equally dampening to my spirit on this double-death day. Steiger's 1967 Oscar win for IN THE HEAT OF THE NIGHT was merely the belated reward he should have reaped for his astonishing, mesmerizing, nonpareil portrait as the eponymous PAWNBROKER. THE BIG KNIFE; DUCK, YOU SUCKER; NO WAY TO TREAT A LADY; ON THE WATERFRONT. What a loss. What a loss.
Harlan
Faisal,
"Minor achievement", indeed. Powerful stuff, that script. More ambiguity than in an entire Hollywood movie. I hope it gets produced, you movie poet, you.
Kudos.
Chuck
JIM DAVIS:
It seems to me that the movie quiz answer to the question of which two actors were used the most times by Hitchcock would be JOHN WILLIAMS and JESSIE ROYCE LANDIS. But I could be wrong.
Harlan
FAISAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Minor? MINOR? FRICKIN' MIIIIIIIINOR????????????????
No WAY buddy this is GREAT! It's EXCELLENT!!! You must realize how MANY of us NEVER get a chance to say, " Yes, I won the.. such and such competition." THIS IS HUGE!!!!!!!!!
CONGRATULATIONS, FAISAL-- YOU ARE THE MAN!!!!!!
Oh, and I read the script and you won for good reason. It's intense.
:)
Cindy
OH MISS ZOE!! Didn't think I would forget your birthday did you?
HAPPY BIRTHDAY Zoe.
I remember 22. I had three kids! One of whom will be 22 in September. I'd try to set you up if you would allow it, but he's like that planet eating machine on Star Trek when it comes to women.
Some day he might grow out of it though.... I hope.
:)
You're a sweet, smart, clever, dear girl and I wish you many many happy birthdays.
Cindy
Happy birthday, little Cassandra! May your every birthday be mighty and full of merriment! May you meet your own superhero someday, and share some cake. Save some for me, wouldya sugar?
And now I must fly, but first:
"...and my ashes served to an unknowing William Shatner as coffee...."
The picture of Mr. Shatner spitting out his coffee damn near made me bust my tights lauging, oh B-O-S.
Chuck
I mean, THE ASTOUNDING THUNDER FOX! Oh, poopy. There goes my secret identity.
Zoe:
Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday to you!
Happy birthday dear Zoe (dot-dot)!
Happy birthday to you!
Chuck
The passing of Ward Kimball has aded significance here at Ellison Webderland. Kimball was the man who animated Jiminy Cricket, whom Harlan has said is one of his role models.
But I remember Kimball as the man who gave us _Dad, Can I Borrow the Car?_ one of the most demented films Disney ever made. Kimball was the one wacky genius among Disney's Nine Old Men, and he tended to ge given a lot more leeway around the Disney lot. It may have stemmed from the love of trains Kimball shared with Disney, for Kimball was also one of the world's greatest collectors of toy trains. He even had a real steam train route on his property, complete with functioning locomotive.
He had a long, productive, and I presume joyful life, but it's sad to hear about a world without Ward Kimball.
Ward Kimball, one of Disney's original "Nine Old Men," has also passed.
http://www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/RTGAMArticleHTMLTemplate/D/20020708/wkimb?hub=homeBN&tf=tgam%252Frealtime%252Ffullstory.html&cf=tgam/realtime/config-neutral&vg=BigAdVariableGenerator&slug=wkimb&date=20020708&archive=RTGAM&site=Front&ad_page_name=breakingnews
With the talk of "The Illustrated Man," I was intrigued to see that Ray Bradbury was quoted in one of the AP stories of Rod Steiger's demise.
John Pickett,
We're two of a kind: I like THE ILLUSTRATED MAN, in spite its glaring problems, and I've seen many furrowed brows in response to my confession. The only genuinely superb aspects of the film are Steiger and Jerry Goldsmith's score; and I guess for me that was enough. I yapped with the director once (he had done quite a number of Twilight Zones for Serling); for all his limitations he went on to do a great job on FRANKENSTEIN: THE TRUE STORY for tv and NO WAY TO TREAT A LADY (obviously his best and a lot of fun), the latter which also starred Steiger (as a transvestite lady-strangler).
I'll definitely miss the madness Steiger brought to PI as well.
I have a friend - a poet - who ran into Steiger just a number of months ago and the actor gave him nearly an hour of his time because, it seems, he too did a great deal of poetry. Steiger was happy to share his opinions.
Well done, Faisal.
_Very_ powerful image.
Congratulations.
Heather
First off..Jim Hess
"You weren't using it." Christ. What IS it with some people?
I can't remember the reference, right now, but this phrase reminds me of someone at work, saying something similar (for a totally different reason.) But Christ..that guy friend of yours.
Christ.
........
In my life, I've read mucho business books. I was browsing a few in the offline world the other day and wondered where ta hell these companies were that I'd learned the lessons and strategies about business from ...ages ago..
Sigh. No matter. Guess I'll have my own one day, that's all...
Have you ever read any of this book below? Here's a clip I liked, given my current employment:
"To most large traditional companies, the notion that workers might actually know what they were doing was a huge insight. (Duh!) But it takes hard work to implement the changes required to elicit knowledge from employees. In most cases, that work is not only incomplete, it hasn't even begun. "Drive out fear"? Dream on.
Knowledge worth having comes from turned-on volitional attention, not from slavishly following someone else's orders. Innovation based on such knowledge is exciting, inflammatory, even "dangerous," because it tends to challenge fixed procedures and inflexible policies. While collaboration has been paid much lip service within corporations, few have attempted it beyond their own boundaries. Ironically, companies that remain "secure" within those boundaries will be cut off from the global marketplace with which they must engage in order to survive and prosper.
And this engagement must be fearless and far-reaching. Workers must become fully empowered and self-directed. Scary. Suppliers must become trusted allies in developing new products and business strategies. Scarier still. Markets must come to have faces and personalities in place of statistical profiles. Flat-out panic!
For many, the new landscape is barely recognizable, online or off. Where business is headed there are no roadmaps yet, and few comforting parallels with the past. The landscape has little to do with mass production, mass merchandising, mass markets, mass media, or mass culture.
Instead, the future business of businesses that have a future will be about subtle differences, not wholesale conformity; about diversity, not homogeneity; about breaking rules, not enforcing them; about pushing the envelope, not punching the clock; about invitation, not protection; about doing it first, not doing it "right"; about making it better, not making it perfect; about telling the truth, not spinning bigger lies; about turning people on, not "packaging" them; and perhaps above all, about building convivial communities and knowledge ecologies, not leveraging demographic sectors."
From the "Cluetrain Manifesto"
http://www.cluetrain.com/apocalypso.html
Don't forget Fred Savage, guys, it's his birthday too! ;) The only other ones I really knew were OJ Simpson and Tom Hanks, already mentioned. What an... interesting mix, neh? Faisal, congrats on your achievement! Read the script and it gave me a few chills. Keep it up!
--Master of the Dots
Joseph, I just picked up a copy on 20 MILLION MILES TO EARTH on DVD. It was released last week. This one also contains The Harryhausen Chronicles original docu, plus other features like an old fashion "This is Dynamation" featurette. I purchased the DVD more for the Chronicles than for the flick, though I always loved that cute little Venusian as a kid.
Looks like the box set of Harryhausen DVDs that came out last year are now coming to the market as individual movies, each with the Chronicles documentary.
Just thought I would toss that out in case anyone felt the need to chase down the documentary and mistakenly thought they would be required to buy EvsFS only.
-TODD
Faisal,
Great achievement, and a good script. Would make a fine short (sadly, I have no terrain suitable in Chicago).
All,
Harryhausen was mentioned earlier this week. I see that Earth vs. The Flying Saucers is due out on DVD with extras, including a "Harryhausen Chronicles" documentary, two featurettes, and a photo gallery. In-stores Sept 17th.
Regards,
Joseph
I'm pleased to say I bought my first plush Cthulhu last September at Comiccon and he has been Overlord of my Evil Beanie collection ever since. I get the greatest comments from visitors to my cube. "He's so cute. What the--- what is it?"
(The Evil Beanies are Scorch, the brown scruffy dragon;Swoop, the pteradactyl; a beanie-sized version of the evil dragon from Sleeping Beauty; Stinger, the scorpion; Bagheera; Scurry, the scarab; a four-armed, hazmat suited thing from Monsters Inc (in bright yellow vinyl), and of course, the other Toy Vault creation: The Rabbit With Big Pointy Teeth. ::grin::
L.
Rod Steiger passed away today
Most remember him as the sheriff from "In The Heat Of The Night"
but to me he'll always be "The Illustrated Man".
I've bookmarked the page, and will offer congratulations now; I will read the screenplay later. Of course praise is fine, I just hope cash is involved as well.
Great job!
BOS
Zoe:
Hope your birthday celebrations remain peaceful. I come home to discover baseballs breaking windows here. Give children 3-9 years old a plentiful supply of Jolt Cola and voluminous amounts of cake, then sit back and watch as they start trashing the place better than a healthy Keith Moon...
Jim: Cool personification of evil. I've already whipped out plastic, found an on-line site which sells; good ol' Cthulhu will soon enough be hanging out with Bill and Opus. A wonderful education lies ahead for Cthulhu: Bill'll have him broken in right proper! Have to make sure Opus doesn't wind up a victim of a sacrificial rite, however. He is still a virgin, after all.
With that, I must leave to assist the good wife in control of this unruly mob. Got both tear gas and rubber bullets on standby, to be implemented by eight-thirty tonight. Hell hath no fury like a toddler full of sugar...
Should I not survive, please don't allow John Henry Williams to claim my corpse. I'd like to be cremated, but not in Georgia, and my ashes served to an unknowing William Shatner as coffee...
BOS
Minor achievement of the week:
http://www.moviebytes.com/NewsStory.cfm?StoryID=1145
FAQ
Jim,
By the way, those plush Cthulhu have been selling like hotcakes at my local comic shop (DC has been doing some fun plush this past year that have been doing well - there's been some Sandman, an incredibly cute Death, Bat-Mite and Mztylpyx to my recollection).
Regards,
Joseph
JOSEPH: I'm hoping the Webderland Brain Trust can crack this demonic little quiz, but it may turn out to be our Masada, intellectually speaking. (Not that I'm suggesting we all commit suicide if we fail to solve it, but. . .you know what I mean.)
An addendum to my earlier birthday comments: Huxley and Shaw didn't hit their artistic strides until their 40's, apparently, so there's hope for me yet.
Jim Davis,
Christ - you're kidding, right? That quiz is going to give me brain spasms. I'll be happy if I can research it well enough to actually get some...
Regards,
Joseph
CLEARING MY DOCKET AFTER A FEW DAYS' ABSENCE:
LYNN: I was out all day yesterday, so I couldn't return your call(s). If you want to give me a ring tonight, I should be in. Oh, by the way: I almost made a last-minute trip to Westercon, but I couldn't find an empty kennel for my dogs. Maybe next time.
You wanna see a hard movie quiz? Holy Shit: http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0226/atkinson_test.php (Mr. Cineaste here could only answer three.)
You wanna see Cthulhu plush toys?: http://www.toyvault.com/cthulhu/plush_cthulhu.html (I never knew ineffable horror could be SO DAMNED CUTE.)
A closing note: Everyone must run out and grab a copy of Ted Chiang's STORIES OF YOUR LIFE AND OTHERS *RIGHT NOW*. This is simply the best short-story collection I've read in many a moon, and it cements Chiang's place in the pantheon of the Greats (Sturgeon, Tiptree, Zelazny, et al--yes, he's that good). This agnostic is praying he writes a novel one day.
This may have been mentioned, but there's a few words from Robert Carroll's skepdic.com site regarding HE's luncheon at the Fourth World Skeptics Conference. Just look at link #5. (well, don't just look at it; click on the link and then look at the words that the link takes you to oh, nevermind, you know what I'm saying)
http://skepdic.com/news/newsletter5.html
ZOE: You share a birthday with Nicola Tesla, Brian Dennehy, and Courtney Love, as well.
I lucked out, I guess; July 26 is also the birthday for Stanley Kubrick, Aldous Huxley, Carl Jung, Mick Jagger, George Bernard Shaw, Helen Mirren, Kevin Spacey, and Jason Robards, Jr.
Of course, this cuts both ways. I don't need to be reminded that these folks had directed PATHS OF GLORY, recorded LET IT BLEED, acted in several motion pictures, and written enduring works of great literature by the time they reached my present age.
I think I'll just curl into a fetal position, if y'all don't mind.
How about they bring back, Night Gallery, and have Harlan host? Just a thought.
Yea, Rod Steiger was always a hoot on PI. See, I care when someone famous dies.
-------------
Anyone want a good laugh, go to; http://www.creationevidence.org
The guy who runs the museum is sadly pretty intelligent, but fell for this shit. Religion sure has some poisonous tenticles.
Aw, FUCK! In some cases - obits in particular - you guys are the readiest news source around.
I cannot begin to convey my fondness for Rod Steiger. He is solidly in the ranks of the greatest actors ever. A perceptive and hilarious guy he was too.
Brilliant guy. He will absolutely be missed.
Poor Judd is dead...
...and the hits keep comin'.
Rod Steiger died. I was and will continue to be a fan of his work.
Zoe, person of the dot-dot:
You share your birthday with:
1819....Elias Howe - inventor of sewing machine
1901....Barbara Cartland - romance novelist (and step-grandmother to Princess Di)
1928....Vince Edwards - actor Ben Casey
1939....Richard Rountree - actor Shaft
1946....Mitch Mitchell - drummer Jimi Hendrix Experience
1947....O.J. Simpson
1956....Tom Hanks - actor
1958....Jimmy Smits - actor L.A. Law
And, hopefully to gain notoriety, although Mel and I pray it does not come in a manner similar to the Orenthal James mentioned above, one Cassandra Athena Reeston, being four years old today.
Best Wishes, BOS, BOSETTE and BOSLINGS
ZOE: Happy Birthday! I vaguely remember 22. I think it was fun but I'll have to check the fossil record. :)
MY SO. CAL FRIENDS: OK, SO. CAL GANG, I am zeroing in on an apartment for my upcoming move. Other than a general antipathy to Orange County, is there any reason you guys know of that a nice guy like me would NOT want to live in Anaheim Hills? I have an upstairs apt. with a nice view there. And I am told it's a nice area. When I visited last month, it seemed nice but it's always best to hear from the locals. Any advice?
JOSEPH: I sent you an e-mail last week. Did you get it? I haven't heard back yet. I still have something to mail out to you but didn't want to do so without your go-ahead. Drop me a line.
[blush]
Thanks for the well-wishing, guys - I was pleasantly surprised when the guy I carpooled to work with (we've known eachother for a whopping two and a half weeks, but get along enough to call eachother friends) told me curtly to figure out where I wanted to eat tonight, because they were taking me out. "They" being a bunch of other new folks here-abouts. Wow!
Wëbdërlandër mug? Oy, does that look German or /what/?!
[/blush]
--Zoë Rose
I'd like to throw in my own birthday greeting for our Zoë. It's nice to know some good came out of the eighties.
---Peter(born in the seventies, thank you)
Venkman,
That would be about the most twisted baby ever produced....
Though I keep picturing Andy Lee giving Hitler painting tips on his roses on the inner walls of Hell. :)
Haven't hit $1,000,000 yet. Those high-level questions can get pretty wicked.
Regards,
Joseph
Holy Spit! Thanks Joseph! That's exactly the theme we wanted for the baby's room! Think he could do "Ascension" as a wraparound wall cling? :)
PS Ever get to $1,000,000?
Oh, and anyone who's interested in who did the (heavily Photoshopped) image for my Celtic Tiger logo, it's Atlanta artist Andy Lee:
http://www.nohtv.com/andylee/
Man does lovely work.
Regards,
Joseph
Joseph -
Nice design. I think my purchasing the boxer shorts would send the wrong message. But the steel mug looks good. As a borderline obsessive/compulsive collector (I'm still working on getting every damn HeroClix figure before the September issue of wave 2) I will probably end up with a cabinet of Webderlander coffee mugs. I already paid the mug-maker at the Ren Faire to make me one that says "World's Greatest Kadodie!"
The cafepress thing might be just what I need to get the funds to finish editing my little monster movie. Hell, if only moms and dads of the cast bought a "Ringo" shirt, I might make enough to fix the Dazzle and get it cut together.
I'm waiting for the variant webderlander mug that has the (dot-dot) over the E. :) Happy birthday kiddo! 1980 was a good year. I was ten...ye gods I feel old.
Lynn,
You're right about the URL. I was just lazy and cut-and-pasted. And thanks for the compliment about the mug. :)
Zoe,
Happy Birthday! Let's see - born 1980. 1980? I remember 1980! To think that I know people born when Anderson was running for president....
Speaking of birthdays, I looked for the heck of it on the IMDB - they have a section on finding what movies were released, or finished, or whatever on specific days. I found that on my birthday, May 9, 1973, Paper Moon and Soylent Green were both released. Explains a lot, eh?
Regards,
Joseph
Oh, I almost forgot!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY ZOË!!! (She's 22 today!)
{Insert mad party sounds here}
Luvya!
L.
Joseph~ You know you can just put your link in as www.cafepress.com/celtictiger, yes?
Venkman~ The $15 price is actually marked down from the previous $18 price. (All hats $3 off.) The struck threw $10 is cafepress's base price, originally $13. My markup is $5, all profits going to KICK, of course.
And you guys, Joseph is absolutely right about the kick ass stainless steel mug.
L.
Venkman,
Lynn's stuff is so cool that it inspired me to update my logo for my film company (by the by, anyone have any experience with prospective space tourism companies or organizations?). Take a look and tell me what you think (no, you don't have to buy it and help pay for my moving expenses, though I think the metal travel mug looks wicked cool):
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/store/store.aspx?storeid=celtictiger
Regards,
Joseph
Hey Lynn,
Looks like the Microfiber cap, normally selling for $10, is on SALE for $15. ???
That clock is very, very cool. Gonna pick me up one for work and home.
Venkman
Mitch, that episode was written by the great Richard Matheson, the one man to have written for both incarnations of the _Twilight Zone_. I recall he wasn't happy about the final result on that script, but I liked it.
That particular episode turned up in a really ghastly story over at Salon recently. It's at http://www.salon.com/tech/feature/2002/07/01/spyware_inc/index.html.
Mitch,
The new Twilight Zone revival is set to air on UPN on Wednesdays this fall.
Regards,
Joseph
Cindy,
I wish someone had the guts to greenlight HE's adaptation of 'Nackles' for the revived TZ. It would have been a hoot.
FAQ
Cindy - I remember that episode, starring Richard Mulligan. I enjoyed it, but I wasn't one for crying over TV shows at the time.
The new TZ did have a few stories that hit me between the eyes, like the destitute couple who receive a button from a mysterious stranger. If you push it, you get a million dollars...and someone you don't know dies.
I heard there's a current revival of the series, with Forrest Whittaker as the host. Has anyone seen it?
Mitch
I just watched an old Twilight Zone episode with Art Carney as Santa Claus...it was so sweet, so poignant.
I am a sucker for any superbly crafted Christmas themed production.. and so, I recall an episode of the newer Twilight Zone that I have never quite forgotten.
Same theme-- the derelict Santa finds a magic bag that is filled with the wishes of countless destitute souls.
What I wouldn't give for a copy of that episode. I remember how I cried! It featured one of the cast members of the old SOAP series... I can't recall his name but his performance is engraved in my brain. It was a marvel to behold.
What I wouldn't give for a copy of that newer Twilight Zone episode. I wonder how many of y'all wept over the same program.
Link Courtesy of Lorin O. and her excellent website, http://www.free-expressions.com:
Rejection Made Easy
http://salon.com/people/feature/2000/03/17/rejection/index.html
::lol::
L.
"a Mr. Creosote moment"
Oh dear...the less said the better.
A con participant had a Mr. Creosote moment to which Zoe & my husband responded heroically while Susan and I tried not to become a part of the problem. Trust me, Joseph, it's trivial and not worth repeating... PLEASE let's not tell this story again.
L.
(The ick factor?!?)
Just wanted to thank everyone of you who turned up to support us at Westercon. THANK YOU! Extra special thanks to Lynn & Bill and Zoe who helped out; and high praise again to Zoe and Bill--it was above and beyond the call of duty. And the ick factor!!!!!!!
http://www.cafepress.com/webderland
The Tick-Tock Clock has been rendered sans typo (thank you Jim), and there's still some really cool stuff on sale here. And I've been told over and over again what high quality stuff the shirts are, and we still have baseball shirts. Remember, $5 of every item you purchase goes towards KICK.
L.
Ted Williams' relatives are apparently fighting over what happens to his remains related to burial, cryonics, allegations of wanting to sell Williams DNA over the internet...
Oh, brother.
TTFN, Jon
Joseph -
Yep, we had pretty much the same post - word-for-word - on each board. You were asking earlier if I'm stalking you?
I'm keeping an eye on you, buddy. :)
Oh yeah, and this weekend in Los Angeles sounded fantastic.
- Venkman
FAISAL -- consider me relieved. On the internet, I'm rather safe than sorry.
Forrester,
Read my later post in the Pavilion - the loop is broken and then woven back together. It's wonderfully convoluted. Perhaps I made a Klein Bottle?
Regards,
Joseph
To Jim Davis re:
"Jim Davis- Saturday, July 6 2002 11:24:19
"VENKMAN: Can't we just call you Jay? Is your new pseudonym a homage to Peter Venkman, the voice actor? And isn't funny that he supplied the pipes for Garfield, who was created by one Jim Davis? Is this a cue for everyone to start singing, 'It's a small world after all'?"
May the moebius loop be unbroken
Some small things:
1) Thanks, CEP, for that explanation. Always interesting to see how processes actually work.
2) Thanks, Rick, for the link to Goldblum. Glad to know he hasn't disappeared like Clarus did from Apple. (Longtime Mac users will know what I'm talking about.)
3) Unless the Sox make a miraculous comeback, I don't see them making the playoffs. Benching Thomas, however, was a good idea. He hasn't been producing, after all, so move Ordonez to third spot and Konerko to fourth.
4) Is there anything better than watching Maddux dominate the Cubs?
5) I've come to the conclusion that Richard Roeper has some serious blind spots when it comes to movies. On the other hand, it was fun to watch Ebert and Roeper both admit that they enjoyed the Crocodile Hunter movie. Not art, but fun entertainment. (They did admit that Steve Irwin will bug the hell out of many people.)
6) Oh, and the Texas Observer needs help to keep their doors open. Even though I'm an Illinoisan, it's a fabulously liberal/populist paper that deserves to remain as the bulwark against bad government in Texas. For details, look here:
https://www.texasobserver.org/donate_a.asp
I hope everybody had a good holiday, and that your day is looking fine (and that the East Coast people are done broiling for a while).
Regards,
Joseph
Regards,
Joseph
Last note:
The individual who claims I misquoted him should perhaps follow the link in question (right next to the quotation) and see what was actually posted and quoted. And then discuss the matter with his own counsel before he makes outlandish statements about legal consequences. There is just the possibility that a lawyer whose practice concentrates on authors'-side publishing law might know what he is doing.
There. The troll should have a full meal by now.
To correct a couple of blatant misstatements made by another individual a few messages back (apologizing in advance for the length of these remarks):
(1) Summary judgment filings are not public record in the same way as are trials. The open-court hearings for summary judgment are of lawyers arguing over fine points in the evidence and abstractions in the law. Virtually all intellectual property cases that involve a summary judgment motion have a protective order, to keep certain confidential information from becoming public prior to trial (for example, the actual addresses and e-mail addresses of third-party witnesses, as in this matter). Frequently, material under that protective order is cited by one side or the other on summary judgment, which results in part of the file being sealed. That is in fact what happened in front of Judge Cooper (the majority of the evidence offered by both sides was offered under seal, and Judge Cooper's opinion is quite elliptical in those areas). Sorry this is longwinded, but it's a technical point that very few experienced journalists get right; even a lot of lawyers screw it up the first time they encounter it.
(2) I have to type most of the rulings in by hand; only the 12 March ruling was available otherwise. Thus, they're not coming very fast, as most of my typing is actually being devoted to the brief for Harlan. In any event, there are actually very few rulings in this case, or in fact in any other. The vast majority of the documents in a federal court's file for a given case consists of unused proposed orders, filings by the lawyers for mundane things like extensions of time, proofs of service, and so on. I refuse to violate Latham & Watkins's copyright in their briefs by reproducing them. As a matter of policy, I do not reproduce briefs for public consumption in matters that remain pending. Thus, the briefs--the only parts that really contain legal argument on the issues--will not be posted (and they are also under seal, as described in point 1, because they discuss confidential evidence). As an aside, scanning in documents from California courts is not a realistic option, as they have court stamps, funky line numbers, and other impediments to scanning. Believe me--I've tried.
[Heeding the 'beware of trolls' sign and staying well away]
Someone (please excuse the bad memory, the thump-thump music from next door is executing my brain cells as I type) asked if there were comments on Westercon. Being as it was my first kinda writers/sci-fi/fantast/art convention type thingy, added to the fact that I got up at 6:30am on a Saturday (ie, day I didn't HAVE to get up that early), my comments should be taken as a newbie's beginner-type view. I went to three panel discussions and then Harlan's, er, discussion. I thought that while interesting, the panels were poorly planned.
The first five minutes of two of the panels consisted of the panel members trying to decide exactly what they wanted to discuss. Acoustics were definitely in need of improvement, especially since most of the speakers didn't seem to like the microphones. The third panel had rooms on either side that were thump-thumping with trailer-music or going wild with laughter and applause, making OUR speakers hard to hear.
Funny. Didn't have any trouble hearing Harlan. Huh. *grin*
I'd have to say the highlights of my day were actually seeing HE in person and getting to meet a few fellow Webderlanders. THAT was an awesome experience.
And experiencing LA traffic of course. Especially when trying to follow a blue Geo-Prism-batoutta-hell skipping through I-405 traffic like a stone skips over water. Susan must have nerves of titanium as well as the nicest disposition of anyone I've met in quite awhile.
A memorable experience, all told. THat's how I'll remember Westercon.
--Zoë Rose
ps - Lynn, Bill, and Lonegungirl: my tires survived. And the car doesn't swerve like that in traffic with just me in it.
There's not a lot I can add to the comments about David Razler's notes, but I am struck by several things.
The first is Razler's continual citation of himself and his journalistic bona fides. Now, it's perfectly possible that Razler's work has met the highst standards of investigative journalism. And even if Razler's work were on a par with the usual space-filler printed in a small local paper, it's possible that he might do it was well as Seymour Hersh would if he had that particular job.
But I've seen very few investigative reporters who are worth their salt continualy cite their "status" as proof of their veracity. Razler has, frequently, replied to our criticms by asserting that he's a reporter, therefore he has to get the facts straight. That's nice, but it's no guarantee that he _has_ gotten the facts straight.
What I'm also amazed at is Razler's clumsy writing strategy. I reread his original note, and it's a genuinely schizzy mixture. In one sentence, Razler talks about his respect, admiration, and love for Harlan and his work; the next, he accuses him of bad faith, of fighting a bad cause, of "ranting," and Lord knows what else. It's the sort of thing that we can call "trolling" without much of a stretch... and it's also the sort of thing I tend to see in really bad editorial writers and narrow-minded ideologues.
Even weirder are the odd references to Ellison's own work. There's refs to Titty Genovese, "The Teddy Crazy Show," the graduation-gown-covering bit, and perhaps a few others I didn't notice. Using a writer's words to score minor points in this style has usually struck me as being a bit creepy, and it has more than a whiff of the stalker.
Do we really need to go posting the "Don't Feed The Trolls" sign again?
"Case of First Impression". I think that is where the crux of the matter lies. By ruling in favor of AOL, the judge has saved Harlan the cost of a trial, and whether that trial had been won or lost, it most certainly would have been appealed to the Ninth Circuit Court, which as I understand it, is the bench most adequately schooled in this newly arisen segment of legal proceedings, having just recently ruled on the Napster case. As I also understand it, the judge's forty page brief (stating she had spent 100 hours researching this point of law) is four times the normal length of a brief that usually results from a case at this level. Forty pages seems anything by brief to me, and it certainly states to me that this case is far from over, having knowingly been turned over to the higher court for final decision. "Case of First Impression." Translation: There is history still to be written.
L.
PS. Zoë~ You rock, girlfriend. I had a blast and so did Bill.
>So Brian is saying that he would care more about a relative of his dying than the six million who died in the holocaust? Remember, Brian, relative worth? <
This is one of those moronic arguments that are occasionally a good time-waster at parties when the women have left, but have little other value. You know, the old Spider-Man makes a choice between the bus and the girl, yeah yeah...
Point is, Frank, that unless one wants to spend the rest of their life weeping in bed for all the cruelty and injustice in the world (and not just against humans, don't forget the 40 billion animals given the knife every year for your whopper), one has to to inure one's self pretty damn fast to tragedy and death. Compassion is always good to have on tap, but you will be drained very quickly if you attempt to keep the faucet on full blast at all times.
Anyone who claims that the death of someone close to them is emotionally as important as some political execution on the other side of the world, has, I would argue, very little understanding of empathy at all. Certainly they have little experience with real loss.
Damn right the death of my wife or son is more important to me than the death of six million Jews in the 1940s. That statement doesn't diminish the lives of those six million lost. To claim that it does, however, would be almost as dehumanizing as the processes that brought the Holocaust on in the first place.
Rick?
:)
Cindy
RAZ,
You wrote:
"And you don't do it for a beat (no one has used the term scoop in this business since 1950). You do it because it is your job to be fair and accurate in presenting the facts to the world."
You also wrote:
"That is what journalism is all about - telling the truth about folks who are supposed to be elected or appointed holders of the public trust - not tawdry sex scandals or that crap, but theft, extprtion and the like - or the life of the party who happens to be the leader of the local crime syndicate. Or telling the world what circumstances led a dear friend to run from the halls of the State Senate, not to be seen again until her body, its wrists slashed, is found in a favorite patch of woods.
Geeze, I must really be out of the loop here. I thought a "beat" was something that a cop walks..or something that one would dance to..or something that one would like to do to a punk who shows a decided lack of manners.
I recently covered a panel discussion on a local historical event. One of the panelists, a brilliant, witty professor from the University of Texas at Austin, smiled and shook my hand until I was identified as a member of the press. His warm smile vanished and he said, " I'm sorry."
I swear it seems like he actually wiped his hand on his pants. I flinched.
Those who report things to satiate the baser appetites of the public serve no purpose other than to muddy the water for the rest of us. I believe that reporting the news is of vital importance so long as that news informs, enlightens, protects or instructs. When it becomes something that is better done behind one's hand it stops being news and becomes something lower that is without redemption.
So how DID the guy that you respected die? What killed him? Did the lid of the community chest snap his neck like a chicken bone as he was ...how did you put it, " stealing from the public coffers"? You said you reported on the real story behind his death. I'd love to read that one. Also I'd like to see the one delving into the demise of the " dear friend" whose body with slashed wrists was found in a favorite patch of the woods. I think it would help me to get a better grasp of who and what you are. As it stands, geeze, with friends like you....
Reporting the news is a trust. By virtue of your words, in print or on the air,falling under the heading of "news" others will take what you say as truth. You must find the truth but you must also question your own motivation behind every story. Do you report it because people need to know-- or because it would make you feel like the next Carl Bernstien oh wait, he was from a different era... let's see... it would make you feel like the next "Steve" from Blue's Clues?
In any case, Harlan Ellison knows exactly what he is talking about when it comes to HIS lawsuit and you aren't open to hearing it..or so it would seem.
What sort of a reporter does THAT?
One more thing, you asked where I work? Here ya go..
http://www.knelradio.com/news.htm
I showed you mine.. now you show me yours. Where's your url? Maybe a link where I can read your stories. If I have misjudged you I would love to stand corrected. I would even apologize about using the word " scoop".. although this is 2002 and I AM in the business and I DO use the word.. normally when I'm being facetious.
:)
Cindy
Gunther,
Surprised you even thought that I thought that you were coming across as a smartarse? Nothing of the sort came in my mind, just genuine appreciation of being corrected.
Otherwise, don't worry about it.
FAQ
The reason Mr. Razler decided to post all this here is probably because the last e-mail I sent him didn't give him enough of whatever he was seeking:
I said: "You are welcome to your opinion as to the value of Harlan's suit and its effects on artists. I'll only ask you to respect my opinion as well, and I'll thank you to not accuse me of hiding "the truth" because it differs from yours."
DMR said: "The laws of rhetoric, that is to say the proper method of forming an opinion say it should be grounded in truth. The BNA copy of the decision (and we are dealing with an institution with a 100% record for accuracy publishing the actual document as signed, says youre rhetoric is flawed."
To which I replied: "There are a quite a few responses I could give but the simple fact is I doubt you are in the slightest interested in changing your mind and I don't care for your constantly accusatory attitude. I don't think further discussion with you on this matter would be anything more than a waste of my time."
...further developments here have shown my supposition about the value of discussing this matter with Mr. Razler to be spot on the money. So other than thanking Harlan et al for defending my integrity, I think leave it at that and go find something better to do with my time.
Jim --
theoretically you could UUencode the document and post it to the board, except it would look something like "$DFDGTRGH[FDG%RQEWFGFDH%6452" for lines and lines and lines.
(ducking and running)
*sigh* Okay, deep breath. . .
DMR wrote: "To another mis-reader of my comments - I said I would *like* to see the evidence, but understand how the volumes will not likely be posted because of length and cost of webspace."
You were nowhere near that clear. In your earlier post, you seemed to suggest that a failure to post these documents was evidence of some nefarious intent on Harlan's part. Given your other comments, I don't think this was such a wild misreading. Still, if you say that wasn't your meaning, then I accept that. I think.
(Exactly how DO you post a compressed file, anyway?)
If you'll bother to visit CEP's website, you'll clearly see that Harlan's suit is currently under appeal to the 9th Circuit Court. There's also a copy of the May 15 Ruling on attorney's fees, as well. Though you characterize yourself as a Bold Seeker of Truth, you're not very informed on the status of this case.
And when has ANYONE involved with Harlan or his lawsuit characterized the March 12 ruling as a victory of any kind? Please, site your sources. (Is this how your write your articles?)
Since when is it part of the journalist's creedo to walk into a room and try to pitch one side of an arguement to a group obviously in support of a particular point of view?
Since when does a journalist wander into a party of Republicans and say, "You've been misled. The Democrats are right on this issue."
We're obviously supporters of Ellison. While we aren't so blindly loyal to accept his word if he calls the sky green or happily look to him as some spiritual L. Ron Hubbard. We DO, however, believe in this cause, support him in his fight and your walking into a crowded room of supporters to say "YOU LOST!" is tantamount to walking up to a Hell's Angel and telling him that he's lost his mind if he thinks Harley makes a good hog. You're picking a fight.
You're not operating in an official capacity as a journalist, so stop hiding behind it.
"To another mis-reader of my comments - I said I would *like* to see the evidence, but understand how the volumes will not likely be posted because of length and cost of webspace."
Look, Mr. Razler, let's clarify this, with language that even you can easily understand. Yes, the verdict would seem to go against Mr. Ellison, it is a verdict by one level of the system, not beholden to stand above all others. It doesn't mean the decision arrived at by Judge Cooper is either right or cannot be appealed. In light of this, Ellison is correct to pursue whatever action he deems necessary, no matter what others think. If he feels the situation still requires redress, and the system allows this continuance, so be it. Consequently, I and others have the choice to support, or deny support as we see fit. And, for the right of poeple to own what they have created, I wholly support this. Not just for Mr. Ellison, but for any and all who justly demand the right to profit from their intellectual labours. Not exactly a legal argument, but a human one, and that's good enough cause for me.
You worry us with the length of any tome you might make to prove your point, yet do not take any pains to disprove the points made by CEP, or Ellison himself. The dammed evidence you claim doesn't exist rests right before your eyes and those of most others who have taken the time to peruse the decision. Any claims not to see the proof that you've made are because you've chosen to blind yourself.
Personally, sir, you're starting to bore me. Mr Ellison has a good idea in dismissing people from his existence. With his kind permission for usage of the concept, I now delete you.
BOS
No, Mr. Razler, you are not here out of largess. You didn't come here because you felt sorry for us poor, benighted, ill-read visitors to the Webderland domain. You did not, in other words, come here because, "because if you read Webderland alone, you'd be celebrating Harlan's great win. BUT IT IS NOT TRUE." You're a goofy gloater who delighted in Harlan's loss at the current stage, and you wanted to stir the shit. Pure and simple.
You knew there isn't much Harlan could say. Laywers are wise enough to tell their clients to shut up and let counsel do the talking. So you came here, in search of someone to fight with.
If you've been here before, you already knew that the people here comprise an advocacy group of sorts. And you also knew that we're a well-read bunch. We are aware, thankew veddy much your patronizinglyness, of the negative opinions on Harlan's prospects.
You came here to gloat and argue. Period.
And you may turn out to be right. After all, once Microsoft lost its suit, that was the end. I understand they're dividing into two companies any moment now.
Okay, Harlan may really lose in the end. But speaking as a writer, and as the owner of the oldest book and author site on the internet, I say that if he loses, we all lose. Even you, little though you understand that. And I am ashamed to see the term "freedom of speech" attached to theft. Gloat all you like, Mr. Razler. But don't kid yourself that you're doing anything but gloating.
--Alex
'DMR': Thank you, much, for the wonderful laughs, snorts and giggles, by way of your high and mighty diatribe here, recently. Journalists and journalism nowadays report the truth and facts?
HAH!
Stop it. Now. Please. I'm getting a laugh knot in my right side, just under the ribs.
Journalism and journalists nowadays report neither fact nor truth. You report the news, and the news is whatever it takes to keep you making your paycheck. Period.
Thanks again for the wonderful laugh. Let me know when you find Elvis and Janis Joplin, scootchin' to the likes of Garth Brooks while they work the grill and drive-in at a greasy burger in Alabama.
Now. What was it I came here for?
Oh, right. A question for either Mr. Harlan Ellison or other equally intelligent types: I was wading through some dusty tomes recently and came across an item that seemed to be about Harlan Ellison and Ray Harryhausen, possibly working together a number of years ago. I say 'seemed' to be about said gents because SOMEBODY tore a third of the page out of the book in question and certain information is now lost.
Harlan and Harryhausen? Working together? Whatta thing of beauty this could be. Please say it be true and real. Please?
Until next time. . .
Cindy:
I have identified my employer . And even given the circumstances, letsee, you identified me, you acted with knowledge of my employer
Where pray tell does Cindyana Jones work?
To another mis-reader of my comments - I said I would *like* to see the evidence, but understand how the volumes will not likely be posted because of length and cost of webspace.
Now if you think the evidence used by Judge Cooper in making her ruling is in any way secret, I suggest you go down to *watch* a public trial, beginning with pre-trial motions, evidence, complaints, briefs and answers. They are *ALL* public information and can be seen for the price of going to the courthouse and asking the clerk for the file. It is *public* information once submitted to the court.
To a correct observer - Yes, I came here as a shit-stirer because if you read Webderland alone, you'd be celebrating Harlan's great win. BUT IT IS NOT TRUE - unless the motion for summary judgmment is appealed and successfully overturned... Harlan lost the case against AOL. He beat Stephen Robertson. He got aid from some small ISPs who agreed that they will respond faster if he calls with a note saying "someone's violating my copyright", and, virtually agreement from AOL that it will preserve his copyright, not by eliminating *just* illegally-posted Ellisonia, but by closing down one sleeay little newsgroup - which, like the rest of us, enjoy free speech.
dmr
If HE appeals (someone let me know if he indeed has) then the appeal will *not* involve new evidence - that will come *only* if Judge Cook is overturned and the matter is remanded for a jury trial.
To quote one of my teachers, one of the nation's top investigators during the 1950s-80s, now in retiirement. I really like XXXXXXXXX. He's a nice guy. And I'll sure feel bad when I print the stuff that sends him off to jail.
That is what journalism is all about - telling the truth about folks who are supposed to be elected or appointed holders of the public trust - not tawdry sex scandals or that crap, but theft, extprtion and the like - or the life of the party who happens to be the leader of the local crime syndicate. Or telling the world what circumstances led a dear friend to run from the halls of the State Senate, not to be seen again until her body, its wrists slashed, is found in a favorite patch of woods.
And you don't do it for a beat (no one has used the term scoop in this business since 1950). You do it because it is your job to be fair and accurate in presenting the facts to the world.
Ah, Sarcastic Mastermind, you forgot:
"Slobbering, feces-encrusted troglodyte who cannot muster two surviving brain cells to rub together in a desperate attempt to spark a coherent thought..."
No need to thank me, my good man; I was just doing my duty.
BOS urges you to control the Smokey Bear population by having your hat-wearing ursines spayed or neutered...Try doing it your self without any anaesthetics, I dare ya!
FAISAL --
you didn't mention it, but I just wanted to make clear that I was not trying to be a smartass, which I fear is how my last post could be misconstrued, since I posted the references without comment.
I'm not even sure if that last sentence was correct English, but let me assure you I *wasn't* trying to say "ooh, this Faisal is such a moron" but trying to give you a few pointers to why I was wondering about this in the first place.
A quick comment as I leave for Vegas...
Much thanks to HE and Susan and Lynn and Bill and Zoe for letting me tag along for dinner yesterday--it was great! Even better was getting the opportunity to meet you all in person--you are all even nicer than you seem online.
--lg
RAZ wrote;
"Look, I'm a reporter, and I've had to report truth I didn't like telling - acquaintances doing bad stuff, the real story behind the death of a man I respected, Singing the praises of a politician I despise for other reasons for doing something good."
I'm a broadcast reporter. Out of professional curiosity, I wonder what the stories were behind your acquaintances doing "bad stuff" and "the real story behind the death of a man" you "respected." You must have had good reasons for doing that sort of reporting... other than getting "the scoop".
RAZ, do you work for the Enquirer?
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
See Scott? I'm kind too!
:)
Cindy
BOS: Hey, I didn't even use the phrases "fulla shit," "microcephalic mutterings of unbearable fatuity," and "obvious manifestations of an organic brain disorder" ONCE.
Does this mean we're getting soft?
Oh, by the way: Charlie Petit IS CEP. He's also the Silver Sleepwalker (that's what the "Your Superhero Name" website says, anyway).
PERSONAL NOTE TO DMR: Yes, I've been having some fun at your expense. But your continual impugning of Rick's, Charlie's, and, yes, even Harlan's motives is pissing me off, to put it lightly. Restrict your arguments to the KNOWN facts of the case, and you'll get a little more respect here. (You'll still be wrong, but, hey, I never promised you a rose garden. . .)
Does anyone have any thoughts on Westercon?
DMR:
I don't mind the comments, but I don't respect a person who can't confront the wrongness of his basic arguments, so wonderfully put by CEP and Charlie (I hope I've remembered you both correctly). Please sir, brevity is the source of wit. In your case, you provide excelllent evidence that the lack of the former guarantees the bereft of the latter.
Might I also suggest not pulling a Shropshire in maligning Mr. Ellison's fight for ownership of the fruits of his intellect, masked by your lauding his efforts in other areas. Your pill is poison; the chocolate coating doesn't fool anyone.
See, Jim? We're becoming a kinder, gentler people here. Look ma, no Valiums!
Washu: Smokey retired? I thought it was a case of rabies...
BOS
So. . .
Posting the rulings on CEP's website isn't enough?
HARLAN'S LAWYERS SHOULD POST COMPLETE TRANSCRIPTS OF *ALL* DOCUMENTS ADMITTED AS EVIDENCE IN A LAWSUIT THAT IS *STILL* WINDING ITS WAY THROUGH THE COURT SYSTEM, AS WELL?
Nope, nothing unreasonable here, nosiree bob...
Dear Mr. Razler,
Just whom are you kidding here?
You came here not as a reporter, but as a shit-stirrer. This is not your publication. You sent a note to Harlan, privately, and that's cool; but you came here to the board to raise a ruckus.
The court case will wend its way through the courts, with no interest in what you say here, or in how we respond. You came here to take a poke at the natives. And for no other reason.
--Alex
DEAR MR. RAZLER:
Thank you for your letter. I appreciate the time and effort you have expended in my behalf. If I might ask, however, I would take it as a kindness if you would not impugn the honesty of my friend, Rick Wyatt who, as Webmaster here, has been above reproach in his honesty and attention to relating the facts in my ongoing lawsuit. As I presume it was merely an unfortunate overstatement, a slip of the tongue, a bit of hyperbole, I'm sure it can be overlooked.
But, again, thank you for your letter, and your concerns.
Respectfully,
Harlan Ellison
Gunther,
Thank you very much for the references. I cite crappy interpretation of the text as my feeble excuse.
Now that you put it like that... I kind of doubt they will be coloured... not unless they start bitching about homies, massah and Ged shooting up crack while recovering in the ghetto (OK, that was low but working in TV here makes a person very cynical when it comes to portraying dramas set in other cultures. "I know whats important in the black community," a TV development person tells me... images of Bamboozled leap into my head).
FAQ
Joseph re: "In One Day?":
Well, it was a very, very long tracking shot.
Cheers, Jon
FAQ: Thanks for the tip on _Ulzana's Raid._ I think _Night Moves_ is a gem of a hardboiled detective/modern film noir, right up there with _Cutter's Way_ among films of that type that I ran across mainly by chance.
Race in Fantasy: Hey, Morgan Freeman would have made a terrific Gandalf. The racial material in LOTR is always a bit galling -- hey, look, Middle Earth's Asian (Haradrim) and African (Southron) races signed up with Sauron! And Middle Earth's aborignes (the Pukelmen) are, well, pretty embarrassing. Tolkien does give Sam an epiphany in which Sam wonders whether all the Southern races have been forced by Sauron to fight for him, which is at least a grace note.
TTFN, Jon
What is this? Troll week? Deliberate misrepresentation of the facts day? Skipping over relevant passages month? Sheesh - what a way to start the week.
Re: CEP's comments "and by the way" 6/Jul/2002.
Well, CEP, you are lucky I am a limited-purpose public figure, as are we all on this board.
You certainly *HAVE* misrepresented my letter at http://pub53.ezboard.com/fkickinternetpiracyfrm1.showMessage?topicID=4.topic
Written 13Mar01 - it runs to 500 words or so and you have terribly wronged me and even mis-attributed the source of my comments on Napster - they come from an attorney
If it were not a click away, I'd copy the whole thing here.
I am going to break my previous silence and post - in its entire, the letter I sent to Our Host with request it be sent on to The Man Himself:
Dear WebBoss (and Harlan, if this ever reaches you)
The outcome of the Ellison v AoL suit, as recorded in the professional press appears to conflict with Webderland's alleged goal of keeping folks accurately informed about the Man who Spawned 100 Urban Legends. Look, I'm a reporter, and I've had to report truth I didn't like telling - acquaintances doing bad stuff, the real story behind the death of a respected person, a politician I despise for other reasons doing something good.
It is part of the business. Harlan has lost the case, should lose the case, and should never have brought it, wasting his resources, both time and economic on a crusade to blame a common carrier for the misdeeds of people stealing his work - who have already, as far as I remember, ceased and desisted. Harlan has the same power I've used to stop an individual from misusing his writing - by contacting the poster or the ISP.
That's not the question here. Harlan decided to go after an ISP for not shutting down a conduit he saw as having no value other than to pirate his and others' works. That is not the legitimate role of a newsgroup, but one does not smash a press because it was misused by one of the people allowed to use it.
And you, my colleague in journalism, have to report the facts in full - posting the whole decision is a good start - posting the summary is another.
As for you, Harlan, if this mss. ever reaches you: Like it or not, I consider you one of the nation's finest living writers, probably one of the greatest living writers working in English, and I consider you a friend in the same way a girl might if she was given something to cover her gown when she was spotting at high school graduation. We first met the *first* time you came to the State U of NY at Stony Brook, you were plugging Deathbird Stories in a remote cafeteria and I was trying to interview you while a Harlan-Fannist kept interrupting us with various obscure points about identity thieves and people who had been sending you hate mail and the kind of inside baseball no audience wants to hear.
I was scared to death, expecting you to do, well what has, unfortunately lately become your stock in trade, I think I suggested David Gerrold (a disastrous interview 'cause the guy was into charring everything deigning to share the same room with him, but I really feared The Legendary Ill-Mannered Harlan.
I discovered that you are (shhh, if you don't want to admit it to the world) one of the kindest, most decent people I had ever met, period. Torn and stung, and ready to explode, especially against the massive injustice of the sort done to Kitty Genovese by her neighbors or the Kent State 4 by state Guardsmen, yes - but not at some dumb kid trying to go from print to radio for a semester and finding himself in a tough bind. I am sorry that whenever I try to speak with you and there's a group around, most of the group is not seeking Harlan, they're seeking Teddy Crazy and you are giving it to them.
Back to the subject at hand: Anyone who reads your works know you have no problem writing - just rip open a vein and bleed, then shape the blood into something with a life of its own - more than golems, you give life to things out of your own flesh and memories, not simple mud and somewhat tiring ritual.
And you treat these creations (as well you should) as your children, attempting to make sure they get a good start in life with a splashy first publication with good, if any, illustrations every word set out correctly spelled... then watch as they grow, joining others in collections, keeping them out of the hands of folks who would abuse them by either planting cigarette ads within their pages or even offering them with typos by the dozen. You have made sure everything you don't wish to have had published when you shuffle off this mortal coil is NEVER published, though I do hope your papers will be placed in a proper vault where at least my niece may read them some day.
Plainly, anyone who guillotines your books and feeds them into a scanner and gives them away without your due reward is a criminal. I don't subscribe to this Information Wants to Be Free trash or the attitude of Well You Can't Stop It.
And I am certainly no friend of AoL, providing pseudo-access to the web and tight monitoring of its users, running sites and contests dedicated to plugging the books published by another corporate division, turned into movies by a second, and reviewed by a third. We have an administration dedicated to allowing the concentration of wealth and power in the business to a degree where soon independent publishing and bookselling will be all but barred by the distribution chain, and priceless Mark Ziesing editions (not to mention shops run by crazies like Mark) will be things of the past.
But this time you went about it the wrong way. Harlan, I love you, and like-it-or-not (as you ranted during a recent I-Con small-group lecture) you have probably not saved, but transformed my life with your children more than anyone except two dozen others (no, you cannot outdo Mom or Dad, sorry).
And, as someone who loves you and cares about you, I feel it is my place to tell you when I think you are doing something wrong. Now that Samizdat is not necessary in most of the world, go after its creators and make them pay what they owe and acknowledge the damage done. But do not go after the transportation mechanism. Back on Sept. 11, I lost a friend smeared against the Pentagon wall because she took the wrong plane. Since that day I have lost three quarters of my rights. Make that your target, I mean first they came for the Arabs and I did not speak up because I was scared, then they came for the American Muslims, and I remembered the rest of the story.
This country is disappearing people - and attempting to limit access to the means of communication. Had your action been successful, it might have been used in kind.
In the years before your birth, wars broke out among Edison's corporations and Victor Talking Machines over whether one company could make a player that could play another company's recordings. The RIAA and MPAA have recently tried to insure that when I buy a disk containing sound or images, I am only buying the right to play it on approved hardware with their approved software. How long can this be until "books" are licensed and the libraries become a thing of the past? Had you won, your suit would have helped push us in this direction.
As Susan said to me [at the I-Con where you were outraged about accepting the claims that your work *helped* people because you would then have to accept claims that it damaged others (who, if anyone looked, were damaged anyway and would find their cause to act in Helter Skelter or the patterns of the clouds in the sky or their inner voices)] "We're only going after thieves".
Do that! A few well-publicized busts of folks making endless copies of your work will cut down on the number willing to take a chance. Have your friends auto-search the 'net on a regular basis to stop the piracy! But stop the pirates and not the ocean they operate in - for it will overwhelm you, or, if you are successful, you will do more harm than good.
Fight good fights - but know your enemy. (I wonder who will be left to speak up when they come for us).
And do a Readercon or something and *refuse* to do Teddy Crazy - let the audience choke as Harlan does caring, though angry at injustice , unwilling to give in to those who do anyone wrong. Harlan, Spend a whole session reading in that magic way that can chase Susan from the room in tears. Talk to small groups chosen at random.
Tell the Boss of Webderland to report the truth, too.
David M. Razler
HOME ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER DELETED from original
-----------------------------------------------------------------
OK, now that I have bled for everyone's amusement:
1) Is it wrong to find that it is an obscenity to destroy a peer-to-peer exchange system that was mis-used by folks to pirate music and properly used by various folk to transmit tapes of seminars? Yep, Napster folks are just like the folks who made beer bottles during Prohibition or all those folks making rolling paper who never sell loose tobacco.
All three shamelessly encourage violations of the law - but are themselves doing nothing illegal themselves - Napster is the sole exception.
Was I overzelous in calling actions like the EvR et al suit "obscene" yes, that's rhetoric. Stomping on a legitimate means of communication because some folks misuse it offends my First Amendment absolutism, but does not *quite)rise to the level of segregation and murder because there are, right now, ways around the closing of one group for a new writer to distribute his/her work gratis to an audience expecting "the good stuff".
The correct target of The suit, Robertson, described by Judge Cooper as simply "an overenthusiastic fan" (Decision of Mar 12, p1 line 19 -first line of the introduction). I do not know any more about him than the judge's two-word description.
As for AOL's request for costs, I still have not read it, though I have what purports to be a copy of the decision of denial - my apologies - I did not come across it during the search, NOR am I sure I have a true copy YET. If AOL's lawyers did indeed distort Judge Cooper's rulings and findings, they certainly go down as ultimate fools in my book under the basic rule of law that "1)the judge not only *thinks* s/he is intelligent and all-powerful, the judge *is* intelligent and all-powerful."(C)19?? by this author
As for my knowledge of the evidence, all I know is what Judge Cooper said she saw in the evidence before her (see decision p.4 lines 14-21. You and other members of the legal team were unable to prove that like TCO, which acknowledged receiving its mail, that AOL ever saw a copy, and could not persuade the judge otherwise.(decisionP.11 line 9)"The court accepts AOL employees' assurance that they never received the e-mail" though acknowledging (ibid l.18) "....AOL's failure to receive the April 17,2000 e-mail is its own fault..."
WHAT was the nature of the gag order that blocked evidence that they had? This form of "protective order" is most unusual, and I would love to see the evidence admitted and a copy of the order posted.
Yeh, I know the evidence file weighs in at about 10 lbs and the transcripts probably weigh in at 40, but I would love to see them, as would a lot of other folks. I am *not* surprised you haven't posted a compressed 1-gig file of the above material.
I cited BNA *strictly* as a reliable source of a copy of the decision with the shorter URL. I have not read any further reports from the organization on the action.
ADMITTED: You know this case better than I do, though I am not positive of your role (please excuse me - I do not mean to insult the lead counsel, I honestly do not know!) AND you know Federal civil procedure and the rules of the district court in general far better than I do.
BUT: All I have to go on is Judge Cooper's Mar. 12 opinion *and* a strong feeling about what is right and wrong when it comes to free speech.
It is certainly WRONG to PUBLISH onto a common carrier, or make accessable via public carrier copyrighted materials you do not have permission to distribute - it is THEFT!
And the thief, a very ignorant person at the least, has been punished with a penalty that sounds rather damaging to the individual - and a good object lesson to the rest of would-be violators.
It is also wrong, and potentially a danger to free speech to hold a common carrier responsible for the huge load of material that flows through its system on a daily basis. It should be noted here that anyone who is comfortable reading from a CRT had a total of 14 days to happen to catch and read Harlan's stories as posted.
It could *even* be argued that the appearance of these binary files on a little-known news group represents a de minimus loss, and NOBODY downloaded them, though you should have the information on the exact count.
But now an entire news group has been shut down
Another underground paper is gone.
Another path for our words to travel completely silenced because of one abuser.
dmr
More remakes. Oh, goodie.
BOS: I'm not sure if you already know this, but Smokey the Bear is officially retired. Someone high up finally realized that a good deal of forest fires are GOOD, as they clear out the forest floor and any severe overgrowth. NATURAL forest fires, that is, not idiot-made infernos.
LW (Benjamin A.A. Winfield)
Oh, and Venkman? Thanks a hell of a lot. Now I'm obsessed with getting past $250,000 on that damn trivia game.
Regards,
Joseph
Faisal --
A description of Ogion in "A Wizard of Earthsea":
"He was a dark man, like most Gontishmen, dark copper-brown; grey-haired, lean and tough as a hound, tireless."
Arha on Ged in "Tombs of Atuan":
"His skin is dark, perhaps he is from the Inner Lands."
And Le Guin in an interview:
"If you look at my books, you'll find that most of my central characters are people of color. You don't notice it particularly and you don't see it on the cover. They refuse to put people of color on book jackets because they don't sell. But I've always done that deliberately because most of the people of the world aren't white."
We'll see what happens.
Gunther and Faisal:
I did like, not love, the original PBS production of TLOH, more for the performances of Davidson and Morrow, and a good script by Roger Swaybill. The performances and writing did bring out both the internal struggle of George Orr and the theme of demanding restraint in the use of power found in the novel. Visually, it won't fare as well as the remake; the original was made of a spaghetti-strand budget (couldn't even afford a shoe string), and the production suffered for it, especially in the climactic scene.
I just hope the remake doesn't suffer from an emphasis on slickness and novelty over an well-crafted examination of an interesting premise.
BOS
Faisal,
I'm with you on "Lathe of Heaven." It was fairly good, but certainly not what everyone has been raving about. Has some nice points too it, though; Bruce Davison does a fantastic job, I think. Also, it gets points for trying. So many shows and specials just sit there that it's nice to see something on TV that takes chances.
Regards,
Joseph
I've tried to get to $1 million in this game and the best I've been able to do is walk away with $500K. The first half are easy, but they get wicked after $18,000.
Who wants to be a cool movie zillionaire?
http://www.cool-movie-trivia.com/Flash/CMTMillion.html
A remake of the Lathe of Heaven.... well, why not? I finally bought the original on DVD and showed it to a few friends who had never even heard of the film, though were big fans of the book. We were not impressed.
Here's the good things about the re-make, its directed by Philip Haas, who did The Music of Chance. And its adapted by Alan Sharp... whatyoumeanyouneverheardofAlanSharp!?! This is the man who wrote Ulzana's Raid and Night Moves? Get those two movies out immediately. True his name also appears on Dammnation Alley but he can probably take as much blame as HE did for The Oscar.
So why worry? It's Alan Sharp. He's good, lets give it a chance. And James Caan is an actor I'll give time for (I must be the only person who sat through Eraser for Caan...).
The Sci-Fi channel is doing the Earthsea trilogy and I hope they would have followed Michael Powell's guidance on barely using any visual FX (Fascinating fact, Powell wanted to direct the Earthsea novels, read about it in his second volume of memoirs, Million Dollar Movies).
Its co-adapted by one of the writers on LOTR though I doubt commercial television is ready for the adventures of non-caucaucasion folks unless 'Massa' or 'Homies' appear in the dialogue track (actually, thats unfair. US Films and TV has more opportunities for coloured film makers in comparison to Europe).
Funnily enough, I never even thought Ged's folk were coloured, I always imagined them to be Shetland island dwellers, all rough sea faring, hill farming folk.
I just pray its better then the mess then the TV Dune...
FAQ
WHOOF!
Finally caught up on 300-odd messages, after returning from the Vacation From Hell (which would actually have been a fun li'l family reunion in Orlando had it not been characterized by my father's going through his second-ever manic episode and nervous breakdown--he's getting treatment now, thanks, but the road looks to be long and arduous). You people sure can't be called closemouthed ...
BOS: A remake of "Lathe of Heaven"? IS NOTHING SACRED?
On second thought, starring Lisa Bonet? I take back what I just said :)
Which brings me to the proposed miniseries of A WIZARD OF EARTHSEA... anyone know if this has ever been commissioned? And how good old Hollywood will deal with the people of Gont being (gasp) not white and all?
Todd: As Chris put it, you're in NJ, and you're worried about smells? Reminds me of that joke:
A couple deep in amorous intent lie curled up together in the back seat of his car. The kissing and touching brings on passion in the woman, who suddenly blurts out:
"Oh baby, kiss me where it smells. DO IT NOW!!!"
He immediately gets in behind the wheel, and drives to New Jersey.
Actually, we're getting it bad up here in Ontario too. Friend of mine today commented that it smells like we're all living in a big pile of burning leaves. It got to looking a bit baleful outside this afternoon, with the smoke high in the atmosphere really turning the sky a brownish grey, the sun having a noticable orange tinge.
Texas being flooded over, Colorado being burned under, Quebec ablaze, New Jersey emitting odors, George Bush as president...
It's the apocalypse, I tells ya!
That reminds me of a joke...
Q: What's the last thing a stripper in Arkansas takes off in her nightclub act?
A: Her bowling shoes.
BOS
For anyone who wants to see DMR's hidden (or not-so-hidden) agenda, may I suggest a visit to
http://pub53.ezboard.com/fkickinternetpiracyfrm1.showMessage?topicID=4.topic
which includes such choice statements as "This suit, and the suits which ended with the current Napster ruling are obscenities - just as the injustices Harlan has fought through his actions and writing (let's start with bigotry not to mention the murder of the artist by editors) are injust and obscene." (I don't think that's out of context, and y'all can check the context yourselves.)
DMR:
Just what have your attorneys been smoking? Seriously. It is not only normal for the "prevailing party" to ask for attorney's fees in a copyright action (and particularly so on summary judgment), but it may constitute malpractice to fail to do so. The Copyright Act specifically provides for it (read Judge Cooper's opinion of 15 May, in which she quotes both the text and the most relevant interpretations). After Fogerty v. Fantasy, it's clear that the award of attorney's fees is at least in theory on the same basis for prevailing defendants as it is for prevailing plaintiffs.
You should be glad that you didn't have to deal with AOL's motion. Between a sense of moral outrage at distortion of the record--to which Judge Cooper responded in her footnote, stating that the only instance of improper tactics had been AOL's misquotation of her prior ruling, compounded by misstatement of its effect, that led her to consider sanctions against AOL's counsel ON HER OWN MOTION in October--and laughter at the poor quality of the brief, it was not an easy thing to deal with. Fortunately, one of my colleagues over at Kulik had already done all of the essential research, and it was just a matter of plugging in citations to the record. (Thanks, Bridgit.)
And yes, it was a serious matter. AOL asked for "an estimated" $650k in legal fees. I don't know about you, but that sure as hell wouldn't make me happy to pay them.
[indignation]
DMR, a rational individual simply cannot credit your assertions. First of all, you have not seen the evidence in the matter. Your characterization that "AOL responded as soon as it knew about it" is WRONG on the facts, which are not crystal clear in the March opinion due to a protective order (but Judge Cooper notes in her opinion that a jury could find that AOL DID have constructive notice). Second, BNA may in general be respected, but this time they blew it: their initial news reports were rewrites of AOL's news release (which carefully neglected to say a damned thing about the facts), and they did not correct the errors until six weeks after they were pointed out to them.
Bluntly, you clearly don't know enough about civil procedure in general, the procedural history of this matter, copyright law, or the particular facts in this case to be making the broad and disparaging remarks that you've made.
[/indignation]
JOSEPH: Nope, not yet. Come monday and we'll see if it's arrived.
Cheers,
LW (Benjamin A.A. Winfield)
Chuck,
So far so good here-- but it threatens and there is another storm predicted. A little south it's far worse. I'm on high ground where I am-- others are not so fortunate.
Here's hoping the fires die and the flood is transformed into something softer and more gently soaking. We've had sustained drought here for over two years.. national disaster designation and all. We had to sell a lot of cattle and calves before they were ready because there simply wasn't anything for them to eat.
Now one hates to breath a bad word about rain in any form; but for the plight of those poor folks south of here you wouldn't hear a peep from me.
Add to the flood and the drought, the Tuberculosis debacle and we've all been nearly sent to the ground.
But we're all still kicking and that's the main thing. We'll keep our fingers crossed that things level out soon.
Meantime you stay safe, Chuck.
:)
Cindy
VENK,
Well, it made ME laugh when I wrote it.
:)
You're READING it! You're a dollbaby.
Cindy
**We just came out of the movies here in NJ and we noticed a strange haze and smell.**
And you found this surprising? Did you just move to New Jersey? :)
Hey Cindy, Sweety, Bubbie...
"If I gave in now, I'd end up like all the others. (BEAT) Just another chip in your king size bag of Lays,"
I'm not sure exactly HOW I feel about it, but that line sure sticks out.
Hey, Scott, can you keep your smelly wildfires to yourselves? We just came out of the movies here in NJ and we noticed a strange haze and smell.....no matter how far we drove, the smell followed....the sun was a red disk in the sky.
End of the world?
Nope, the news tells us that a wildfire in Quebec is blowing it's exhaust over us 'mericans.
Damn, you guys are sure stinking up my Saturday. For a minute there, I thought those jokes about New Jersey always smelling were finally coming true and I had never noticed.
-TODD
Frankenheimer's death pisses me off. A great director handed more and more crappy jobs as the years went by. That, and his DVD commentaries are among the best by anybody - I learned a hell of a lot from his insightful commentary for "The Manchurian Candidate."
Woah - Never nominated for an Academy Award? How did that happen?
Checking CNN.com for news, I see that General Benjamin O. Davis Jr. (ret.) has passed at 89. First African-American General and the head of the Tuskegee Airmen. Helped integrate the USA armed forces.
Regards,
Joseph
P.S. Little Washu, any sign of the book I sent you yet?
My superhero name is the Super Executioner. Neat!
And appropriately enough, I shall now reply to Frank Church's gnomish question, "So Brian is saying that he would care more about a relative of his dying than the six million who died in the holocaust? Remember, Brian, relative worth?"
You bet I _would_, and I _do_, Frank, and relative worth ain't got nothing to do with it. When they closed the lid on my mom's coffin, my hard-won composure snapped. If I hear my Dad's had a heart attack, and we won't get to fix his back porch like we've been planning, I'll probably collapse in tears and mourn for a week.
As for the Holocaust... sorry, Frank, but not even Raul Hilberg's work on the subject can get me to work up the same degree of tears and heartbreak. There's horror, and dismay, and the nice chunk'o world-pain that one gets when reading about the twelve-to-thirteen million killed in the camps, but it ain't nowhere _near_ the same as direct, immediate grief.
I don't know what that makes me in Frank's catalogue, but I'd love to know exactly how one _should_ apportion one's grief. He seems to invoke numerical standards (about half of the people murdered in the Holocaust), the wealth or perceived emotional openness of the victim (John Entwhistle), or whether they're victims of U.S foreign policy. These strike me as being rather cold-blooded standards. And they do require a bit of pre-consideration _before_ letting oneself experience grief.
Aaaaaaah, damn it.
John Frankenheimer, 72, just passed away. I honestly don't care if he was responsible for the Marlon Brando ISLAND OF DR. MOREAU. Any man who directed one of the ultimate cinematic experiences of my life, SECONDS, will forever be A-OK in my book.
LW (Benjamin A.A. Winfield)
First, drought and wildfires here in Colorado. Now, Flooding in Texas. Geez. How are the Texas Webderlanders doing? Cindiana? Keeping dry down there? Could y'all send US some of that water? Tell you what. We'll bail and you put out the fires. How's that?
Chuck
Hmmm...the name above is who as a Bag-O-Scott; as my alter ego Reeston, I become "The Dark Thunderball"...
I guess "The Rinkmaster" was taken.
BOS
Should I be disturbed that Jesus Christ is "The Magnificent Executioner"?
Always,
"The Foot-Stomping Dominator"
JAY/VENKMAN: You're absolutely right! It was Lorenzo Music who was the actor, not Peter Venkman, and have I ever mentioned that I should never post anything before my first bite of breakfast? (My favorite Music creation? Carlton, your doorman, of course.)
And since we're talking about pseudonyms, here's a site to find your superhero name: http://gfishbone.com/heroname.php
If I use the short version of my name, I'm the Dark Ranger.
If I use the long version, however, I'm the Sarcastic Mastermind. (Needless to say, I prefer this one.)
And Harlan? He's the Great and Mighty Warlord.
Jim -
Re: Your Message in the Pavillion.
As long as I continue to NOT receive pleas in my email from African revolutionaries wanting to borrow my bank account, you can call me anything you want.
Venkman is a nickname and it does go back to Peter, who was voiced by the late Lorenzo Music (and later by Dave Coulier)in the cartoon series who, indeed, voiced our beloved Garfield created by one Jim Davis! Four Degrees of Separation!
Now, you could also link to HE in three! Venkman who was voiced by Music in episodes (the better ones) written by J. Michael Straczynski who worked with HE on Bablyon 5. :)
So Brian is saying that he would care more about a relative of his dying than the six million who died in the holocaust? Remember, Brian, relative worth?
SEE? See how polite I can be? I didn't even ONCE say, "Aren't you fucking ashamed of yourself for running off at the mouth at damn near interminable length when even a cursory glance at the posts of the last week would have annulled easily half of your lame-brained screed before you sent it spinning into the electronic ether?!?"
I'm tellin' ya, folks, it's like a brand-new me.
DAVID M. RAZLER: Actually, Charlie Petit has already directed everyone to his website, where the March 12 and May 15 decisions can be found. (Go to http: www.authorslawyer.com/c-ellison.shtml)
You're right. I don't want to get into another catfight about this, nor am I 100% qualified to parse the legalisms in the March 12 decision. But you're dead wrong that "there is no evidence...that AOL asked for attorney's fees." The May 15 ruling on Attorney's Fees is VERY clear on this matter. There's been no deception here.
Charly:
1) I have been told by my IP lawyers that in this kind of matter, neither asking for, nor receiving attorney's fees in this kind of situation is usual.
2) I agree, every loser in a case like this gets an automatic shot at an appeal *on the record* which, as Judge Cooper stated, is fairly weak for Harlan. We will have to see....
Scotty-
The bambino is doing wonderfully. He's a little over a pound. All tests performed have been negative if positive means bad vice versa.
Pam is tired, moody, hormonal, and all the things pregnant women get to be when carrying an extra twenty-five pounds of protobaby material. She is also glowing, excited healthy and happy, which is most important. I, of course, am suffering from sympathy pains. She suggested I strap a sack of cement on my belly for five months if I'm feeling particularly guilty.
You're absolutely right about the past. Digging up the old 'rents emotionally or physically would only hurt the present and endanger the future. I was just bringing it up in case your momentary spleen vent was part of a larger vent in reality. Ever thought of building snow-people on the ice at the rink then driving over them with the zamboni?
Venk
Excuse me, but what is a summary judgment?
Cindy
One other comment I will add. The reason we have appellate courts is because trial courts make decisions which are contrary to the facts and the law which require reversal. Even though the trial judge's decision may be a final decision, it is not engraved in stone at this point.
David R: I have not read the 40 pp. opinion so I can not comment on your other statements; however, I can tell you, that as an attorney, I have obtained attorney's fees when obtaining a summary judgment numerous times and it is not an unusual circumstance to receive them or ask for them at summary judgment.
My friends, and fellow lovers of Harlan Ellison and his works:
YOU HAVE BEEN MISLED by a lot of comments posted on this site Re: Ellison v. S.Robertson, America Online, et.al, UD Dist. Coutr, Cent. Dist. of Ca. CV 00- 04321 FMC (RCx) and its outcome.
I am not going to get into a catfight here about what the decision says - I am going to lay on you TWO locations where PDFs of the Mar. 12 decision has been filed. Read it, and, if you get bogged down in 40 dense pages, ask a lawyer to explain, and a short version on how I humbly interpret it.
The sites are:
http://pub.bna.com/ptcj/0004321.pdf
A publication of one of the most respected legal reporter publishers in the country, and
http://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/CACD/RecentPubOp.nsf/bb61c530eab0911c882567cf005ac6f9/47819ca5ada002af88256b7c006a4494?OpenDocument
from the court itself
No claims have been found that the decision is not a 100% accurate copy of the decision as issued.
There is a somewhat flawed (because it focuses soly on the DMCA issues raised, not the older matters of copyright) analysis by a DMCA specialist attorney at www.phillipsnizer.com/int-art263.htm
I have humbly asked our host to publish all the filings in the case, or at least the 40-page ruling. I also asked him to submit an attached letter to HE regarding why I am happy a man who has had a profound interest in my life lost a suit.
I hope it is forwarded - I'd post ot here, but it is a rather personal comment.
The short-form of the judge's opinion1-AOL acted as soon as it received notice of violation, which came in the form of a lawsuit - The judge accepted AOL's claim it did not receive an initial e-mail, nor did HE's counsel demonstrate it did. AOL met the intense test for summary judgment against plaintiff The remainder of the decision explains why AOL is protected both by a) 100 years of Common Carrier law and copyright law in general and b) the DCMA.
It should be noted there is no evidence, in the decision, that AOL asked for legal fees, since no request for fees is standard procedure in a summary judgment claim - if you want a summary judgment, you don't get legal fees.
Brian's about pegged my feelings on the question of death and emotional proximity, so not much more to add on that. I feel badly for a few minutes about the loss of a person whose talent I've respected; I'll grieve the loss of my brothers and sister for quite some time.
I'm no basket case by any means. This morning, as the housecleaning moves on, I'm tormenting the wife by singing "I've Got A Brand New Pair Of Roller Skates (You've Got A Brand New Key)" by Melanie in my finest Tiny Tim falsetto. After about three runs through the chorus, Mel began repeated attempts on my life. It's okay; the kids are now singing it repeatedly, and Mel's got a murderous gleam in her eye.
Venkster: Well, I can't go dig up pater and mater, and I've not the skills to change the past. It'll have to dissipate on its own. I guess Kant's aphorism about the future being where one should live applies. It's a lot more fun than the past, in my case.
BTW, How's the ripening of your newest loinfruit coming along?
Saw a broadcast of a half hour making of documentary for the A&E production of "The Lathe of Heaven". It'll star Lukas Haas as Orr, James Caan as Haber, and Lisa Bonet as Lalache. The production values will supercede the original, but I suspect that the production won't be as strong as the original PBS production. I was left feeling that the producer and director were taking the approach of emphasizing the technical gimmick of Orr's reshaping reality, without really considering the consequences of engineeering the dreams. Still, I'll wait and watch, and hope I'm wrong.
With that, I'm gone.
"I've got a brand new pair of rollerskates
You've got a brand new key
I think that we should get together and
Try them on to see
I been lookin around awhile
You got something for me
I got a brand new pair of rollerskates
You got a brand new key..." Everybody, Sing!!!!!!!!!!
BOS
I'll add a few comments on the David Loftus/Frank Church brouhaha. (Brou ha ha? Ha ha ha.)
As bad as it sounds, the deaths of a thousand people a thousand miles away won't affect us as much as a single death that's near and immediate. The story of a wedding in Afghanistan being bombed is awful, and it's a tragedy... but if the old lady who lives across the street from me were to die peacefully in her bed tonigt, I'd feel worse about _that_.
Conversely, if I were living in Afghanistan in late 2001, and I heard about a couple of thousands of people in America being killed by terrorists, I'd be saddened and shocked... but I'd probably be more upset if a child or a parent in the local village was killed in some stupid accident.
This is _normal_, gang. It may not raise us to the ideals of universal love and continual awareness of man's inhumanity to man, but it doesn't make us Nazi fucks who adjust to mass murder by depersonalizing the victims. It's _normal_.
That's what bugs me about Frank's comments. His cries of greater sadness over those killed in Afghanisan, and the dismissal of the theoretical deaths of his parents, or the blithe comment about John Entwhistle's status as a "privileged" human, strike me as a pose and an affectation. "Oh, you're sad about a rock star? You'd be upset about your _parents_? Well, _I_ get upset over _Third World people_ being _bombed, how do you like _that_ for moral superiority?"
That's being _charitable_. Because, if Frank really _was_ being honest, then he'd be operating in a radically different moral framework than the rest of us. And it doesn't strike me as being an especially humane or honest one.
Point taken David Loftus. Craggy mutterings fail me now. But I do see myself as a Jew, even though I am not Jewish, and as a Palestinian, even though I am not Arab. I see humanity as a collective whole and that collective energy mass needs a kick in the spiritual ass. But I see humanity as a doomed failure, and the clock is ticking.
----------------------
BOS, can I say, you are one smart motherfucker. But my Libertarian Socialist resolve gets stronger as I find more grey hairs on my nutsack. Rationality is the kite I fly, my friend.
----------------
Eminem lyric:
" My words are like a dagger with a jagged edge
That'll stab you in the head
whether you're a fag or lez
Or the homosex, hermaph or a trans-a-vest
Pants or dress - hate fags? The answer's "yes"
Homophobic? Nah, you're just heterophobic
Starin at my jeans, watchin my genitals bulgin (Ooh!)
That's my motherfuckin balls, you'd better let go of em
They belong in my scrotum, you'll never get hold of em
Hey, it's me, Versace
Whoops, somebody shot me!
And I was just checkin the mail
Get it? Checkin the 'male'?"
Ah, I guess he aint that clever after all. Ick.
Lynn:
No need to apologize, no foot in mouth. The sign was there, you saw it, you asked. I think Mom left the sign up because it's a handy landmark on a stretch of road where it's hard to see what's going by from a car. The evergreens my Dad planted as saplings several decades ago pretty much hide the old homestead from Cape Arago Highway these days, at least until you've passed it. And Mom needs the landmark because she runs an informal bed-and-breakfast operation for many friends and interesting strangers.
Frank said:
> David, you used the term, "faceless" to describe a
> bunch of innocent human beings. A bad choice of
> words my friend.
I disagree. It was a relative term. They were faceless to you and me.
> Imagine the people who died in the Holocaust being
> called, "faceless".
I do. And they are . . . to you and me. You weren't acquainted with any of them, were you? I've met survivors aplenty -- in the synogogue where I attend services regularly, alone -- but that's not the same thing. Doesn't lessen the magnitude of the crime, or mean I'm devoid of compassion. But it does seem to me that our response must perforce be a largely intellectual one.
> Not implying that my parents dying wouldn't make me
> sad, but since I have a bad relationship with them it
> makes a bit of sense on my part that I would feel a
> little less sad about their passing.
Well then you pulled a sort of analytical bait-and-switch on the rest of us by using them in an intellectual comparison where the average person would assume what he heard was what you meant.
> And did I mention that my parents are raving bigots?
No, you didn't. Which just goes to show your remarks said more about you and your folks than the subject at hand . . . but none of the rest of us was in a position to realize that at the time you said it.
> See, not everything is as it seems on the surface.
Especially if you hide part of your hand from the rest of the players.
Scott -
If only Charlie Brown would have exploded on Lucy that way at the booth JUST ONCE, he might have been able to kick that fucking football.
I think someone referred to you as Father of the Year on the board... that's part of the afterlife torture bestowed upon failed parents in Hell...or lounging at Dante's Citadel waiting ultimate judgement...or playing endless rounds of Uno in Purgatory.
Let the rage go, my man...you beat them. :)
Your point is well taken, and one I've heard put to me a few times, and I'm hard pressed to remember an instance where the comment was put more cogently.
Obviously, you've received an upbringing by parents who saw fit to act as good parents, giving you what good and hope they had. If you don't mind, I'll admit to a twinge of jealousy now.
Funny, but I looked back at my comment after reading yours, and did a bit of thinking about it. I'd like to think, through distance and circumstance, that I've worn away the rancor that pater and mater left as heritage for me; apparently not as much as I'd like. Well, I've time, and I've already made quite a bit of change which has greatly improved my life. I know I don't display any of this hostility against Mel or the kids; just no thought of it. Perhaps the horror of what came earlier made the concept of violence towards my loved ones entirely repulsive to me.
Well, it'll probably be the process of slow erosion that'll work best, just letting the circumstance I'm within now to push the anger back into the recesses of my psyche until it just dies from of not being recalled as a memory. And the family is a great help in forcing it along.
Not bad, kiddo. I feel a bit like ol' Charlie Brown at the Van Pelt psychiatric booth. I know, five cents please...
BOS
BOS~ I know you've probably heard it a thousand times, and I'm just a nobody on the internet, but you're a good person and I can't help but say something. Call me a busybody, but the sentiment would be most aptly expressed by an invisible hand resting on your shoulder, offering a touch of support. Hating someone that much is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. It only harms you. And you, as the person I have come to know in this brief space of words, you as a father and a husband and a man, you deserve more than that. Just my two cents, for what it's worth.
L.
http://www.syzygyjob.org/
Oh puh-lease! Predicting an earthquake in SoCal is like predicting rain in Seattle! some PEOPLE!
Not trumping you Frank, but I honestly was happy at the demise of the two hate filled abusive cocksuckers that sired me. There is little end to the hatred (and it is hatred, trust me) for those two bile filled, pus encrusted walking stacks of human feces who happily used neglect and violence as a means of destroying their children as they destroyed themselves.
I must profess I loved seeing them to their graves, not shedding a tear as the caskets lowered. I just wished I could've seen them to hell, if I could find a scintilla of proof it existed.
Point is, Frank, we made it. And we're a damn sight better than they could imagine themselves being.
Of course, you are a socialist, but that'll change over time...
BOS
Frank,
"I wanted to keep my parent situation private"
Yeah, totally understandable. Just using it as an example. Most topics we debate here don't require background information.
LYNN!
BEHOLD!
My last email is the perfect example of why one should never write while toasty. After my July 4th extravaganza I came in and read Chuck's note. My response, (after too many Pearl Lights and Coronas) was too loud, quite abrasive and stuuuuuuupid.
VOILA! In my case I will try harder to leave the drunken writing to those more like Hemmingway than Gidget.
Cindy