Three things.
First, great page.
Second, thanx for the stuff on HERC. I've joined, and got a recording of "Jeffty Is Five" and "Prince Myshkin, Hold The Relish" which is just incredible.
Third, is HE going to be on television any time coming up, anyone know?
Just as an aside, and fully sanctioned by Mr. Wyatt, "The Healing Power of Obnoxiousness: The Paul T. Riddell Essay Archive" is currently featuring a contest that offers a FREE copy of the limited-edition, slipcased Ziesing print of Harlan Ellison's _Slippage_. Details on the contest may be found at:
http://www.cyberramp.net/~priddell/contest/
Admittedly, the site has a lot more than this, but you'll have to visit to find out. (Contest ends August 2, 1998.)
Cordially,
Paul T. Riddell
The Healing Power of Obnoxiousness:
The Paul T. Riddell Essay Archive
http://www.cyberramp.net/~priddell
Oh -- Charlie, you might have to ask Rick "Interesting Sounds" Wyatt, but there used to be a link around here, somewhere, that would whisk you off to a reprint of the Gay Talese article. Hope that helps. The essence of the article was that Sinatra was sniping about Harlan wearing boots on "Frank's" turf, and Harlan refusing to play the game (Frank's game, that is; he *was* playing pool, and I believe beating the pantses offa someone). To avoid muss and fuss, Harlan and his chums split.
RICK> WOW!! That sounds so cool! This really is the very jazziest author site on the 'Net (only to be expected, for the jazziest author going), and it's only getting better. My official Way T'Go, Dude to you. Now why doesn't Paul Riddell have a site like this? IF ANYONE'S INTERESTED> Harlan is no longer writing reviews for the San Francisco Chronicle. Why? Because the schmuck editor of their 'Books' department, the one who came to Harlan claiming to be a fan, the one who gave his solemn word, his gentleman's oath that there would be no jiggery-pokery with Harlan's writing,... cut the review by about 2/3, and otherwise mucked with the prose. And this was first review out of the shoot, mind you. So, as there are suspiciously few major papers asking for Harlan, and a platoon that he *won't* write for due to past skullduggery, he's making noises about not doing reviews anymore. I'll find out the mug's name and mailing address in case anyone else out there wants to tell this chump what a colossal boob he is. Meanwhile, if I run into this dweeb, well, I hope you'll all write to me while I'm in San Quentin. Cheers, Doc
ON REVIEWS AND TALKING TO HARLAN - I am *very* excited to hear the reviews are progressing! I've spoken with HE about the reviews, and he has agreed to look over them and make comments. This can be done twice - once before you finish the review you can send him a preliminary run and/or any questions you want to ask, and then when the review is put online I will send it to Harlan for any comments he wants to make. But PLEASE send the info to ME and include your address and phone number and if Harlan wants to call you directly, he can. If he gets bombarded with phone calls he is likely to pull the plug. It's very rare that an author will participate in a review process of his own work and I'd like to preserve that participation if possible! OTHER NEWS........I will be putting up TWO Ellison stories soon, with audio of both and video of one to eventually follow. These stories are "Paladin of the Lost Hour" and "Susan". If anyone has a tape of the Sci-Fi Buzz Harlan read "Susan" on you can save me and the Ellisons some trouble.
BARNEY- Looked for the Sinatra rag but apparently all copies were sent back or sold out. I've seen mention several times of the HE/Sinatra run in, but never learned the details. Can you give a brief insight. Thanks. ET AL.- Why is there all this talk about calling HE at his house?? Give the man his space. Go to the cons or a book signing. I know talking to da Masta' would be great, but his privacy should also be respected. If you want to get on his nice list find him a Kersh book he doesn't have-he'll be ever grateful-I know first hand. Anyway, my two cents. Charlie
NICOLE> Your difficulty with HE's number is mystifying to me. Got your recent e-mail, and haven't had a chance to respond -- or should I say, *RE*-respond. Seems the server I'm on boots you off, if you linger too long at one particular site. Wiped my entire reply. GRRRRRRR! Furious? Guess. So, I'll be in your e-face as soon as Netaddress (my e-mail host) decides to let me into my mail. Hate this technocrap,... BARNEY> I think you misunderstood my admonition to Alex. When I was working on SLIPPAGE, and had a question, I figured the most expedient way to resolve it was: ask Harlan. He was delighted to help and asked to look at the reviews before they went up. Please note that I didn't suggest that EVERYONE call him and ask if he caught the Giants game (despite the fact that they *danced* on the Dodgers the other day; and they ain't been nothin' since they left Brooklynn). If you're polite and have some business, he's only too happy to assist. Just remember, it's his time and his terms. Cheers, Doc
Well, I didn't find it in the book. I had to go to the library in my neighborhood, deal with a librarian who obviously hadn't had her morning coffee, then I went to the downtown library, or at least tried to. Got lost TWICE. Twice in a downtown filled with one-way streets and me horrible with directions, then sitting in front of my comupter all day for, well, I can't say, to finally e-mail me the number. Peg, I have no courage. I called twice. Took me an hour to get up the guts the first time, an hour and a half the second. Never talked to him. Had a nice little conversation with Susan, who is an absolute goddess, but no Harlan. Yeah, sure, easy to call and talk with. I wish. Anyone who does manage to talk with him- ::jealous glare::
Harlan's phone number is no secret and it never has been. He's in the book. I think we should ALL call him EVERY day just to say hi and shoot the breeze. We should also get daily chest X-Rays and prostate exams and never floss. Misunderstand this posting at your own peril. Kisses,
Barney Dannelke [HERC #1]
*>>>>>* ALEX- this may be persnickety. I like the tite, but it does remind me of "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil". It's not too similar, just reminiscent. Course, if you don't publish for a while that book will have sunk into obscurity and no one will notice! ............................................................*>>>>>* NICOLE - I don't EVEN want to know what you went through to get HE's number. You're a braver gal than I, Gunga Din. I'd never even consider it unless he gave it to me, since HE is well known for thinking fans too instrusive and demanding. While I'd love to meet the guy and chat, it's just what I'd call an entertaining thought, an admiration thing, but not a realistic scenario. Just cause I enjoy his writing, etc., doesn't mean we'd actually have a lot to talk about or that he would even enjoy my company. [I'm sure most folks enjoy the fantasy that thier favorite author/musician/etc. would be totally captivated by their personality and they'd become lifelong friends...]. Well, that's it from the north. ------------------------>Peg
Alex, I do have a copy of Angry Candy here, but the words are incomprehensible to me. Doc, I wouldn't say mean or severe. You're a SOB with a heart, meant in the nicest possible way. BTW, did you get my last e-mail? I can't help but laugh at the casual way you suggest calling Harlan. I tried it, and it's not that simple. Still, it's the best way. And don't ask me for the number. You should go through as much trouble getting it as I did, and besides, I'm forbidden to tell where I got it. :)
ALEX> First, I like the title; how do you feel about "SERPENT In the Gardens of the Gods"? As for the plural gardens, I figured, "What god is gonna wanna share a garden?" Concerning "Soft Monkey," I don't have it handy for contaxt, and it's been awhile. My thought would be, "Sorry, honey." Or you could always call Harlan and ask. And, finally, *I* would like to see a sample chapter or two. I'm not mean and severe, pay no attention to what Nicole says,... BARNEY> It ain't gonna explode when I open it, is it? No guts, no glory, though -- my snailaddress is on the way. BILL> I've always found you a literate, capable person, and cannot imagine you producing anything like raw sewage -- I was going to insert a playful jibe, here, but decided agaisnt it; I'm sure you're doing a great job, and I look forward to seeing your review. Is that it? Did I cover everyone? Cheers, Doc
All right; this is an appeal to the collective intelligence of the posters and lurkers on this board. During a re-read of the story "Soft Monkey", I found to my chagrin that I simply could NOT figure out just what the Human Resources woman said about Alan, the baby--the words that Annie heard as "soft monkey". Now, while I understand what is meant in the abstract, I would really like a clue as to what the words Annie misheard were--especially as I'm halfway through the ANGRY CANDY review. Any help would be much appreciated.
BILL: The trip of your tongue was intentional: I wanted something that didn't just scan as a normal title, as the novel deals with many different pantheons ... As for editing the reviews, I'm just spewing out all that seems right now; I'll take the time to fix later--Yes, I _have_ been told that I'm self-destructive ... however did you know? {insert appropriately japish emoticon here}
Which is why I didn't pay full price.
You might be interested to know Harlan has been an online guest of a convention in Czechoslovakia this weekend with my help. His and other authors' discussions are at http://amber.i-topp.cz/parcon/conf. Also, if it's the one I'm thinking of, the Star Trek chapter Barney mentions has been mentioned by Ellison as containing several factual inaccuracies, the most laughable of which is a claim Harlan (who has had exactly one beer in 64 years) said something while drunk...
Hey Folks, Here are a couple of things I posted over on alt.fan that non trans-lurkers may be interested in.
Just a heads up to Ellison completists [you know who you are]. One
piece of positive fallout from the death of Frank Sinatra is that
everybody and their idiot cousin is trying to cash in. Toward that end
the people at TV guide have out on the stands right now something
called "Frank Sinatra:His Life in Words and Pictures" $4.95
Reprinted as an end note you will find the 1966 Gay Talese article
"Frank Sinatra Has A Cold" which contains Harlan's run in with "Ole
Blue Eyes" The original source was [I think] Esquire. 2 columns on
page 73 if you just want to read it.
While I'm posting Ellison completist information I thought a few of you might like to know that most of the major book chains presently have remaindered copies of the hardcover edition of "Inside Star Trek: the Real Story" by Herbert F. Solow and Robert H. Justman for about $7.00 [marked down from $30.00]. ISBN#0-671-89628-8
While I am not a Trek afficianado, there is a very interesting chapter called "On the Edge of Forever: Waiting for Harlan" which certainly rounds out ones perspective on the production of the show. Interesting reading presently at the right price.
Hey Doc! If you spot this send me your snailmail address. I got something for you and you wont even need shots to go with it.
Lator gators and jail baiters.....
Barney Dannelke [HERC #1]
Barney Dannelke
This is a slightly off-topic post, but are there any Webderlandians down there in OZ who might aid poor Billy D's feeble understanding? On the advice of many friends, I rented an old Austrailian movie this weekend called "Walkabout." And unfortunately I've got to admit that I was lost and bored through the whole thing. Didn't understand a bit of it. Why did the aborginee kill himself? Why was the girl afraid of him at the end after swimming naked around him for countless screen moments? In fact, why did their father even take the kids to the wilderness and strand them there in the first place? Can anybody render me some insight? Thanks. -- Billy D.
*ALEX*, you title sounds very intriguing, the kind you'd see in the bookstore shelf and pick up to browse just out of curiosity. The only thing that tripped me up a little with having Gardens in the plural. "Snake in the Garden of the Gods" flows a little better in my ear. Good luck with it. As for my review, I've started it and will be taking the first part to my writers' critique group this Thursday night--at least, then, by the time it hits the Webderland pages, it will be a LITTLE less raw than sewage. -- Billy D.
Nicole, considering both my overstuffed ego and my overinflated sense of sincerity, I cannot in good conscience say that my novel sucks, nor can I lay claim to the title of Best Writer Around (especially not around THESE parts); I know my novel is crap--but it's damn GOOD crap! No; I was referring to the SITUATION of being blocked so near to the finish line that sucked. As for more chapters--no; not yet. At this point in time it's too dangerous to feed my ego; I'll become content to rest on the laurels of good (some even great) chapters completed, and never FINISH the work. Perhaps after I get the review done and have jumpstarted myself on the novel (must--restrain--from asking--if--any ... any others ... want to see chapters ... Danger, Will Robinson!). One question I *would* like to pose to any and all on the board: is "Snake in the Gardens of the Gods" a title that sounds at all attractive?
Alex, whadda mean your novel sucks? Far from it. And send me some more chapters. My review? ::hangs her head in shame:: Won't be here till late Aug probably. This month is awful. College stuff, working on my stories with Doc, writing in general, and of course actually reading the book itself, what can I say? I hardly have time to enjoy myself anymore. Still, Rick, on my highest honor, you WILL have a star-quality EW3 review, guarenteed.
Well, after a long case of performance anxiety exacerbated by the fact that I've been all but stumped on my novel (which REALLY sucks, as I've come scant chapters away from the denouement), I finally started in on the ANGRY CANDY review. (Sorry for the delay, Rick!) In two hours, I got out a good 2500 words--and I've only just finished up on "Paladin of the Last Hour"! This is really the thing I needed--hell, it might just jumpstart me for the novel! Yet another thing to thank HE (and Rick) for ...
How go everyone else's reviews?
Anyone heard when HE is scheduled to be speaking at DragonCon? I'm seriously considering attending, but probably won't be there for the whole gig. Thanks. -- Billy D.
FINDER> Haaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaha! (gasp!gasp!) Hahahahahaha! Your take on ST:V is *so* righteously right-on (This message brought to you by the Department of Redundancy Department)! I rocked, rolled and roared. The other things, we also agree on -- I think "Real Videos" is just the measuring stick for how ghoulish the teevee watching public really is. Ecch! A.J.> (that's you, Berman) Thanks for the tip on the Ellison books; got anything to pass on re: Kersh? Finished "Sgt. Nelson of the Guards" recently and was quite impressed; "On An Odd Note was equally terrific; still wading through "Song of the Flea," but eager to keep the collection growing. Get some sleep! NICOLE> Believe it or don't, the Evil Eye isn't "dumping" Snyder -- he's retiring, at least for a while. Asked Harlan about it, and apparently Mother Snyder is far, FAR from well, and the guy has other stuff going on. Gotta give the devils their due, and this one ain't at their door. "Dr. Quinn" is another matter; I hear their getting hate-mail by the freightload. Cheers, Doc
Doc, I think you're right on about Sliders. I KNEW there was something that bugged me about it, but I didn't really realize what it was till now. What I don't get is why they are dumping Tom Snyder and leaving Letterman- that man is annoying beyond belief! Thanks for the book info, Alex. I've been dying to read Memos From Purgatory, and it's great to hear that I can find a copy for a good price. And for those people who want me to type up a transcript of Tom Snyder (just FYI, it's not quite complete- VCR gave out the last few min) send me an e-mail, just so I have a complete list. I'm swamped with work all this month, but, just for you, I'll get a transcript to you by the week's end. Promise
My personal opinion? The so-called "reality" programming (that Fox has seemingly built its recent line-up around) really needs the boot - not, however, before that final segment: "The World's Greatest Animal Attacks on The Morons Who Somehow Believed This Crap Was Entertaining"...and "Star Trek: Voyager" (all we need is that spiffy holographic doctor to start waving his arms and shouting "Danger, danger Captain Janeway" and it will have lived up to its 'high concept'...) And while we're at it, are almost-nightly editions of "Dateline" really necessary? Sliders - I haven't watched in some time; it always struck me as having potential, but it got to be like listening to a gifted yet unambitious musician, crapping out and going mundane at a moment when brilliance is a daring, untaken step away. I have work to keep me frustrated - I don't need my entertainment to do the same.
Whoa! Another great thing about www.books.com -- they have an automatic "Compare Prices" option. As an example, Edgeworks 5 was priced at $22.94. I hit the "Compare" button, and, seeing that Amazon and B&N both were pricing it at $16.09, the site autoamtically lowered it to $15.81! I think I might start shopping at this site ...
Well, I found two VERY interesting bits of Harlan stuff on the web tonight. Suffering as I am from insomnia, I've been making nightly attempts to find the Kersh books Harlan wants--hey, wouldn't you? I can't think of NOT wanting a favor/phone call/signed book/whatever from Da Man. Happily, I've found a few things for him, so one never knows. Passim: In my search, I came across a site -- http://www.nemaine.com/cybertiques/girlie.html --from which you can buy old girlie mags. The authors listed in some of these blew my mind--I wasn't that surprised to find Robert Bloch, Henry Slesar, HE, and many others who were scrabbling to sell their stuff at the time, but there were mags which had stories by William Faulkner, Nelson Algren, and Irwin Shaw! Mind-blowing! Oddly, the ROGUEs listed showed no Ellison story (nor any that could be considered a pen name, though I'm sure he wrote a lot of the articles, considering the way he's said he produced the mag. ********** Even cooler was the new (new to me, anyway) bookstore site I found-- http://www.books.com ... A search for HE turned up over a hundred citations--and inexpensive ones, even for Harlan's rarer books! Anyone want _Memos From Purgatory_ for $2.90? _Gentleman Junkie_ for $2.70? _The Deadly Streets_ for three bucks? Granted, these are all the '83 reissue paperbacks, but still! This is a find! Had I any money right now, it would be spent. Ah, well ...
Well -- CBS has cancelled "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman," Tom Snyder is leaving the air and THE GLASS TEATS are approaching the shelves. I guess that's our cue to start kvetching and bewailing the state of television...again. When I heard the premise of "Dr. Quinn," I thought 'Ooooh, *that's* a winner...' As it happens thought, it turned out to be a fairly high-quality program. And whatever you think about him, there doesn't seem to be anyone else doing the style of interview program -- actual conversation -- that Tom Snyder does brilliantly. Whaddaya say we all take this opportunity to make a call on what needs to go, what needs to stay, and what we'd like to see instead. Personally, if I should die without being confronted by another "America's Funniest Home Videos," or "Bloopers & Practical Jokes," or others of that ilk, I will be beaming in my coffin. "Hard Copy" and all its illegitimate 'National Enquirer' cousins must go! Oprah, Rikki Lake, Montel Williams, Jerry Springer -- gone! Regis and Cathy Lee -- poof! Letterman, Leno -- vanished! Actually, Magic Johnson's new gig is a refreshing change -- clearly, he's not relying on his media persona, and focuses on his guests. Soaps -- zap! Hmm. This might be turning into a full-scale rant. Off the cuff, does anyone else have a problem with the (now Sci-Fi Channel) program "Sliders"? They can go anywhere they want -- and don't. And they insist on wrapping everything up in an hour, one show. Why not draw the story out over 2 or 3 episodes, take the time to really tell it, to explore all the implications? It would also give them the opportunity to get through a given show without violating story-logic -- I'm willing to go along with just about anything, as long as they're consistent, and they often aren't. Now there's a need for a "conceptual consultant"! Cheers, Doc
Yes, EW5 will probably come out in September. It will be both GLASS TEAT books together for the first time, it will be updated by Ellison and will include a double-length intro as promised. There will also be a comprehensive index covering both books together. I'll have more details on a news entry probably tonight, and also some more information on the fight to save the watershed land (don't forget to write your letters!)...
Say, does anyone happen to know if the rumors of Edgeworks 5 being pushed back to August or September have any truth to them? Though it's not something for which I'd have asked, it's semi-okay with me, considering my financial situation--or, rather, my complete lack of same.
F&SF promises nebulosly a HE short story in the next issue. hmmmmm
Sue: you mean you don't consider Vic a romantic? (did he know how to treat women or what? Wham! Bam! See ya later, ma'am.) Or how's about the narrator of "On the Downhill Side?" --- romantically, DTS.
Hey!! Trying hard to catch up on life, and you guys decide to go verbal on me.. Just got home from my seven day "weekend" trip to a famiy wedding in western PA.. Car died at the PA/OH Border.. YIKES! Don't ask.. That's what I get for giving in to "reasonable", and Not taking the bike.. The share a room thing sounds GREAT! - But now that "COOKIE" has decided to come west.. DANG! Now I want to do BOTH! And Chi-town is a LOT closer (and loaded with relatives = free digs..).. Always something.. Well, it's a good back-up.. :-) .. I'm game to try for space-sharing.. We aren't fussy about where or when we sleep - but I do insist that everyone else bathe often.. };-) .. ***RICK*** I wouldn't expect you to kick in on a room you won't be using (though I'm still a-flutter with the notion you'd like to meet me enough to actually PAY for it.. giggle, or is that a measure of how little you want me parked in your livingroom??)- but I will give you a major Hugging if you could make reservations for us, since we are entirely clueless when it comes to local accomodations. On topic.. Who do I most identify with of the multitude of HE chars?? WOWSER! There's a little bit of squirming involved with most of them.. The one that jumped to mind was Jessica in Along the Scenic Route... and, is it just me - yes, Sue, Just You - or is there a peculiar lack of romantic-type "heroes" to identify with in HE works?? I'll be back with you later, after I get caught up with what 3 unsupervised grown men do to a house in a week.. AI-YI-YI!! Anyone know what the record is for unanswered e-mail pile-up?? Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe
Who do I most identify with from an Ellison story? Easy. The alien from "How's the Night Life On Cissalda?" In the words of Randy Newman, "my life...is good."
Hm. With whom of Harlan's characters do I most identify? That's poser. I would think myself an amalgam comprising parts of (in order of how much I think of them as me) of Andy Sorokin ("Punky and the Yale Men"), Danny Stiles ("Djinn, No Chaser"), Michael Kirxby ("All the Birds Come Home To Roost"), Fred Handy ("The Resurgence of Miss Ankle-Strap Wedgie"), and Cort from "The Cheese Stands Alone." A wide range, true, but there is always the defense of Walt Whitman: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, I contradict myself. I contain multitudes."
The character I identify with most closely? The protagonist in SHATTERDAY. I hope you guys all mailed your letters to Councilman Feurer - god knows from the savage beating I've taken on the fandom newsgroups hardly anyone else cares to. Also, on the HTML problem - you should read the paragraph at the top of the comments submission page "Anything resembling an HTML tag will be summarily destroyed" - so you can put in addresses but don't try to put A HREFs around them, okay?
I am like the woman from Maine who is an incidental memory of Brubaker in "The Other Eye of Polyphemus". I am from Maine, and Harlan pegged the type square-on.
In answer to Peg's question (which HE character do you share most of your traits with?): I'd have to say I'm a mix (sort of a mutt) of two characters -- Vic & Blood. Adios, DTS.
If Peg claims first shower, I get second, and the floor (somehow, more comfortable than the bed). Might as well start out with which character I *don't* identify with. Top one would probably be Gorrister (IHNMAIMS)- I do the suicidal loner/apathetic bit more often then I like to admit, and this is not the time nor place to elaborate on that one.
If Peg claims first shower, I get second, and the floor (somehow, more comfortable than the bed). Might as well start out with which character I *don't* identify with. Top one would probably be Gorrister (IHNMAIMS)- I do the suicidal loner/apathetic bit more often then I like to admit, and this is not the time nor place to elaborate on that one.
Rah! The Peg-inator is back! Missed ya, kiddo. I was starting to worry about whether the bears had eaten you up. What character and/or trait to I most strongly with? Yipe -- kind of depends which day I'm on, really. Some days, I'm a ringer for Kadak; lately, I'm feeling an awful lot like Arky Lochner. Aw, geez, this is takin' me places I don't wanna go. I'd go on, but frankly I don't trust myself to be too objective. Pfui -- I'll give it a whirl and get back to you. INFOMAN> I'll have you know that my hero is no two-dimensional cardboard cut-out. Thpppppp!
oops....sorry for the double post. consider me shamed by the web gods...
Well, well, I know, it's been a while, so sue me. Sorry for the long absence, I've been off work a while and my parents are visiting for 2 weeks (what WAS I thinking?!). Caught the Masters of Fantasy show on HE - totally worth the time, even worth waiting through the commercials. Makes me even more disappointed that I have yet to hear HE speak/read/otherwise publically pontificate. As for DragonCon, if I were going I'd pop for the room & we could all share - on the condition that I got a bed & the first morning shower. A woman's got to have her standards, right? *laf*. *****Warning: self-flattering side note ahead......(Unlike other formerly poor but now financially secure people in the world, I remember being strapped in school & other times but also that I have had the great blessing of friends who were generous beyond measure, and so try to share when the appropriate occasions arise.)end self-flattering side note***** Would that I could make that particular con scene, I'd love to meet some of you in addition to seeing HE. I am, as usual, jealous. I can at least offer free room & board in good ole Anchorage for those who'd like to visit. (of course, we don't have any cons here, and certainly no HE appearances...and with low oil prices, I've not a business trip in sight. But it is a beautiful place - yes, even in winter). Time to go, but I feel the desparate need to prove my intellectual self-worth by leaving a discussion-starting, post-creating-frenzy-starting question...but you'll have to do with this one *****Of the characters in HE's stories that you can recall, which do you most strong share a trait(s) with, and which trait(s) would that be?***** Later - the Pegster
Well, well, I know, it's been a while, so sue me. Sorry for the long absence, I've been off work a while and my parents are visiting for 2 weeks (what WAS I thinking?!). Caught the Masters of Fantasy show on HE - totally worth the time, even worth waiting through the commercials. Makes me even more disappointed that I have yet to hear HE speak/read/otherwise publically pontificate. As for DragonCon, if I were going I'd pop for the room & we could all share - on the condition that I got a bed & the first morning shower. A woman's got to have her standards, right? *laf*. *****Warning: self-flattering side note ahead......(Unlike other formerly poor but now financially secure people in the world, I remember being strapped in school & other times but also that I have had the great blessing of friends who were generous beyond measure, and so try to share when the appropriate occasions arise.)end self-flattering side note***** Would that I could make that particular con scene, I'd love to meet some of you in addition to seeing HE. I am, as usual, jealous. I can at least offer free room & board in good ole Anchorage for those who'd like to visit. (of course, we don't have any cons here, and certainly no HE appearances...and with low oil prices, I've not a business trip in sight. But it is a beautiful place - yes, even in winter). Time to go, but I feel the desparate need to prove my intellectual self-worth by leaving a discussion-starting, post-frenzy-creating question...but you'll have to do with this one *****Of the characters in HE's stories that you can recall, which do you most strong share a trait(s) with, and which trait(s) would that be?***** Later - the Pegster
Awrighty, let's see if this works: go to www (period)locusmag (period) com (www.locusmag.com). If a large space appears before this sentence, I give up. If not, I have been (semi) redeemed. Doc, cancelation of your subscribtion to the Infoman newsletter (featuring the nifty cardboard cutout of your favorite hero) is in process (see what insubordination gets you?). Informationally tapped out, the man.
Curses -- I hate when I double post like that. I think what Infoman was getting to was the URL for SFGate. Do a search on 'em through Search.Com, or the engine of your choice.
For your Info, Man, something about the posting mechanisms here edit the URLs right out. Yessir, carves 'em out like a hot knife through clarified butter. Weird, huh? 'Course, that doesn't mean you *ain't* going senile,... Cheers, Doc
For your Info, Man, something about the posting mechanisms here edit the URLs right out. Yessir, carves 'em out like a hot knife through clarified butter. Weird, huh? 'Course, that doesn't mean you *ain't* going senile,... Cheers, Doc
Er, um...whoops. The message below was supposed to tell you to head over to Guess I either deleted it or (could it be? Has Infoman gone senile?), heh-heh, forgot to type it in. Yours in senility, Infoman.
THAT"S RIGHT! IT'S THE RETURN OF THE WORLD REKNOWN AND REDOUBTABLE (with apologies to Barney) INFOMAN! (by the way, all you club members out there who know his secret identity are encouraged to guard it with your life...or your ovaltine rings, whichever you choose to forfeit first). Here's the latest: if you head over to and, after letting the page download all the way, cursor down to "new features" and click on the "other reviews" highlights, you'll find a hyperlink to a review written by Harlan Ellison for the San Franciso Chronicle. The novel reviewed is a reissue, MAN ON SPIKES by Eliot Asinof (a novel about baseball, natch). For any of you Webderlanders out there who might've be mulling over the idea of reviewing an Ellison book for this site and are wondering how the Icon hisself does it, here it tis. Whew. I'm worn out from flapping my arms along these cyberspace airways. Gotta fly now (zoinks, and away!). Informationally, the man. P.S. (just read "Objects of Desire in the Mirror Are Closer Than They Appear." Pretty neat little tale about...no, no. Don't want to spoil the surprise. Better let you guys read it for yourselves -- though it has whetted my appetite for that tale-in-progress about vampirism which I read about, "Bring On the Dancing Frogs," reportedly based on passages from the Book of Thomas, in which a man gives a teenaged Jesus the short shrift and is cursed with being the first vampire).
I don't know if anyone else has seen this, but HE made a cameo appearance on "Freakizoid!" a while back. Pretty funny, actually. I don't have the name of the episode, but it shouldn't be too hard to find.
If you guys are on the west coast or get a late version of JEOPARDY (the tv game show), you'll be interested to know Harlan was the answer to an $800 question in Double Jeopardy tonight! Rick Bob says check it out!
I agree with Nicole that seeing the video is the only way to get its full effect. For years, I've caught hints about Harlan's unique and fabulous estate in Sherman Oaks, but I could only guess as to what it reall might look like. The library! The Art! Oh, my!
OY-EZZ OY-EZZ, MAYDAY AND LIKE THAT!!!! For those of you who haven't already scriven a missive to Mr. Feuer, I just had a look at his website -- PLEASE NOTE!!! There was an ERROR IN ONE OF THE ADDRESSES! The address for his Sherman Oaks office should read as follows: 14310 Ventura Blvd., Suite 100. The address listed is at 1431 Ventura, and will likely get your nice letter sent back to you. He also has a City Hall phone number: 213-485-5031. Be nice to the man. Remind him only as a last resort that trying to get re-elected as a man who works for education is really, really hard, when the opposition has ammo like, "Sure - *private* schools; and he wrecked 200 acres of watershed land to do it." That statement's a pretty big pill, so we should robably save it for the end of our nice letters, and kindly, lovingly, *caringly* suggest it. Yours in Mischief, Doc
Turn your back for a minute, the things take over,...thank god. I was starting to feel like Earl Holliman in that TZ episode! "Where is everybody?!?" So now I know. If there's a chance, I say we make a grab for it: who has a credit card? If I can wangle a way *TO* the con (and I'm sure "con" is the correct word), it would be worth it just to get a visual recog on alla youse guys. Who knows -- I might even be able to save up money to kick in for the room. RICK> $10 is good seed-money; anybody got a peach pit they ain't usin'? WOLFMISTRESS> Glad to see you've returned to us! Feel free to e-zap me about anything. I've had some trouble with your address, or I woulda writ ya by now. I'm also glad you like the reviews -- please feel free to direct the attention of any hiring editors to those pages. Baby needs new shoes (and socks, and,...), the ol' Remington Bel-Air is getting rather feeble and costs too much to repair, others hidden in dark, distant but safe recesses -- that's slowed the review process considerably. Somethings I will committ in longhand; reviews ain't EVEN on the list. Gotta go, backpain. Smackers, Doc
Actually, Nicole, I'll have the fun of watching Harlan THEN South Park. Fun, no?
Alex, I can type up a transcript of both, except my tape gave out the last minute of the TS show, so it will be just a bit incomplete. I'll do one on Masters of Fantasy too, but I reccomend you actually watch it for yourself. After all, this is *Harlan Ellison* we're talking about, and that, in my humble opinion, beats South Park any day. I just finished writing a very polite letter to Councilman Feuer. Hope it actually does some good.
As another who missed HE's recent Snyder appearance, I'd VERY much appreciate any transcript of the show--perhaps whoever have the access and the opportunity (and the time, for which you may consider yourself thanked in advance) could type one up and submit it to Rick? Just a thought. ... What really annoys me is that I've missed every single showing of the HE Masters of Fantasy special, and, due to being out this coming Wednesday, will have only one chance to catch it--this should make for an interesting hour: Harlan and South Park ...
Hey, Finder! If you get back this way, check around for a chick singer named "Cookie Coogan". That's me and I tend to show up on gigs with Steve Brown, Dan D'Imperio, or George Reed. You never know---chances are I *might* be working. Chances are I might not, but like I said, you never know. It's purty 'round here---I love roadtrippin' from town to town. We take the back roads and dig the scenery with the windows down!
KEEGAN: Live from our 'it's a small world' department - I'm a SUNY Binghamton alum, worked at IBM out in Owego and have friends on the Tier, up and down I-81, in the Fingerlakes and up into Rochester - New York born and raised, and I'm forever road-tripping up that way (in part because it's near impossible to find spiedie sauce down here in Mary-land). It's always a trip to find someone else who knows what "home" is like. --Finder
Well, I persevered and found out that Dragon Con is September 3-6. For a flickering moment, I thought I might try to make it, meet some of y'all and generally observe the freak show. Unfortunately, I have plans to go to Chicago for the jazz fest that weekend, so that's out. (Sigh!) oh, well....
Hey, y'all. I tried wading through to find out when Dragon-Con is, but no luck. I'm all 'Netted out. Maybe I'll look around the site tomorrow. I caught most of the Masters of Fantasy (?) show about HE on the SF Channel. Man, Harlan looks great and I really wanna go hear him speak some day. What an entertainer! I like that stand-up prophet/comedian thing he's got going on...and what a hoot seeing HE in the bookstore window. These are all marvelous things I've heard tell of, but have been unable to avail myself of so far except through the magic of tee-vee. Back to Dragon-con: I can't vouch for Nicole (though I'm sure she's a fine human) but Sue and Joe Luesse are house-guests extraordinaire and would be great to share your Atlanta crib with. If I was goin', I'd make 'em a pallet on my floor, but I ain't, so maybe YOU can hook 'em up. Finally, I notice that Finder asks what seamy jazz underworld I work in. I live in Ithaca, NY and I work a ring of towns including Binghamton, Syracuse, Elmira, Corning, Auburn and occasionally Rochester. I'm ever slouching toward New York, Chicago, Toronto or LA.....
EMERGENCY ALERT! Check the news page (click the "News" icon above) for information on how YOU can help Harlan save watershed land in his area from encroachment. Those of you who saw the Tom Snyder show last night know what I am talking about!
................... also, on the DragonCon hotel room - there are no rooms left at the Con, but there are several hotels within 2-3 blocks. They are all around $80-120 a night for a quad (4+ person suite). If you guys get a group together I'll kick in $10 a night as seed money (but I'm NOT going to be the one who lays the hotel room on his credit card, mine are maxed!).
Well, just taking a break from another one of my dawn writing sessions. Wolf, I got almost all of it on tape, and I'll be glad to type you up a transcript. That Buddahism thing startled me a bit, too. I personally think he would make a great Wiccan, but there's something about Harlan with an athame (ritual sword) that just scares me. He certainly was in top form. Had a lot of energy.
Well, like a total ditz, after a full week back to real work, I had forgotten HE was on Tom Snyder tonight altho planned to stay up to see it because I like TS show, and sure enough -- ** I fell asleep!**
I woke up in time for the last 3 minutes or so -- when Tom asked him about Babylon 5 and his opinion of Christianity. In his reply HE implied that the only religion he respected, I guess is Buddhism. Now maybe I'm mistaken but is HE mellowing in his elder years or what? There was a time when I distintly remember him slamming *every* religion for his usual reasons. And he didn't get as nearly crazy about Christianity as he usually has. I very much liked his comments on interviewers,tho. He was looking good in what little I saw, and I could just beat myself for not remembering it was on!!! Anyone got a full run-down of what he had to say, since it was a live broadcast (comes on 2am here) And DOC -- I will email you privately about your incredible reviews! There must **definitely** be more of those! You're wonderful! Later, people. "....there's no such thing as normal life...there's just life. Get on with it."
While I can't help anyone with Atlanta accoms (perhaps you pilgrims can go in on a room together, in fine fannish trad?), i thought I'd pop in and mention that I've unearthed my copy of a 1976 tv interview half hour Ellson did for the Syracuse U PBS station. Not too shabby--aside from fashion questions, visual interest is provided by how much HE and interviewer Rich Eiswerth look alike. BTW, Sue, Murdoch's News Corp owned TV GUIDE for a few years before the big smash-together now in progress...just sharing the wealth/debt, now, with TCI. And all dollarwork is prostitution to one extent or another...
Sue, I know exactly where you're coming from, and I was going to ask the same thing closer to the Con date, but anyone have any objections to rooming with a shy, quiet teenager for about two days or so? I mean, I've got college expenses and all that stuff; I'm sure every one of you can sympathize with that. And I'll only be in the room every now and again, stay out of yor way, etc. I don't want to be a pest with asking this, but since we brought it up, might as well deal with it.
OK guys - here's the skinny on DragonCon.. It costs too much for a place to stay. And we don't have a friend in Atlanta to put us up.. (all the rest of our route is covered) SOoooo - I'm asking if anyone going, or intending to go, would like to accept a little cash bribe to let us sleep on the floor in their room... :-) ... And I do mean *little*.. We'll bring our own sleeping bags, and stuff socks in our mouths so we won't snore too much.. We don't need a LOT of sleep, or at regular hours - and we will probably only be there for one day of the con... Otherwise, we'll be going to the thingie in Madison (HIYA WM!! Old buddy... Good Pal... with floor space...) and by-passing Atlanta for the Florida Keys in September. (we *have* friends there..) Drop me a line if you are open to bribery - and want to have a Good Time.. Sorry to be a drag - but our budget got hammered with Have To stays for family weddings (motel, food, and travel costs for us AND the four kids, and the gift - is a fiver in a card not up to snuff???) Got TWO of the darn things to go to.. Sheesh! I coulda got a whole new bike for that kinda cash.. And it's not like I've seen any of these cousins and nieces and nephews in the last decade.. What it the "thrill" of having bikers at your wedding?? Yes, it was specifically mentioned in both invites - come on bikes.. Between getting Pfarfegnugenned when the car died, and now having *3* kids in college.. Can we say cat food?? That ad on TV for the new gourmet Pedigree canned dog food sounded tasty.. Why do I get the feeling I'm in training for retirement living on Soc. Sec.?? **ALL** still trying to think of something HE to say.. don't hold your breath..
SUE = Haven't seen anything from you around the lair. Either Burbank is napping at the switch, or I need to check the other sanctum - mayhaps you is replying to the Easypost (lovingly referred to as "Queasypost") address. WOLFMISTRESS = here 'tis: click on the BIO link at the top o' the page; then, click on ELLISON REVIEWS; then, click on anything by K.C. Locke, who is me. You will then be assaulted by screen after screen of my deathless prose and razor-keen observations. BILLY D. = I love you, too. ALL (to whom it applies) = Has anyone else tried to e-mail me at the Mesmeratronic Institute for the Study of Creative and Enriching Time-Wasting and Other Entertainments? Just curious - haven't heard from some who I thought would ring my doorbell and run. Speaking of running, I've got to. Anyone desirous of a visit to my site, please e-mail me for the address. Rick will post it, by I'm sure some of you are just drippy with antici.........pation. Cheers, Doc
WoW! Can't believe it's been SO Looong since I posted.. Regular lurker, though... ;-) ... Been comepletely wrapped up in Real Life Doings, and what little spare time I had went to learning how, and then putting up our own web site.. YIKES!! Anyone know why sound files come up as .txt files in Netscape - but Only accessed by an HTML tag?? weird darn stuff... Ah well.. **TODD** My condolences having been "acquired" by Murdock.. Is that anything like being an "escort"?? **DOC** I've sent several e-mails.. Thought maybe you were off-line again.. But I read your post, so I sent another one. sighhh.. **WM** Glad to see you up, and at 'em again! **ALL** ummm... haven't got anything else to say at the moment.. Let me think about it for a while.. I might accidentally think something..
Nicole, I have e-mailed you at LadyLark55@aol.com twice in the past week about the review project. I'll resend you copies of the e-mails, let me know via e-mail if you do not get them.
BTW, the aforementioned MASTER OF FANTASY schedule and other HE appearances is on the upcoming appearances page, accessed via the News page...
Okay, I'm lost here on the topic. Hell, I'm lucky to even know what T.V is, as I hardly ever watch it. Doc, your reviews *are* pretty intimidating. Scared me out of reviewing for a while, but I'm going to give it a shot. And whatever do you mean you're not coming to DragonCon?! I was hoping you'd be there. Wolf, I'll drop you an e-mail sometime. And so much for a regular time in the chat room. Why do I get the feeling that no one ever listens to me? Rick, still waiting to hear back from you about reviewing "An Edge In My Voice"
Well, if the AP got it right, they're keeping the old Prevue Channel parent corp name, now no longer a wholly-owned TCI subsidiary. There's a fellow writing for THE NATION who's making a vest-pocket career writing about and drawing charts of the interconnections of the monster entertainment/news/publishing congloms...the articles aren't that insightful, but the point is hard to miss--the "mainstream media" which all used to sound the same because it was produced by and largely in the interests of one type of people, is now going to sound even more similar as it becomes the literal property of a very small number of people (they'll have "controlling interest" at very least). Neoliberalism (running government as much like, and as much in the interests of, big business as possible, while retaining as little Visible suppression of dissent as possible--"We're no fascists!") just keeps chuckling along...
Ms. Coogan: Your remark about James Byrd's incredibly ugly demise is apt...and it kinda makes my point a while back about those good old days, where this kind of insanity might get a two-line mention in a police report column in the locality where it happened, and then again it might not. Now, it's trumpeted internationally. Unfortunately, either way it doesn't help Byrd, but the question remains--what can we possibly do about the kind of ugly furniture in human form who can actually do that kind of thing to another person (aside from install them in elite units of police forces or the military of most countries that have those institutions, I mean)? The new face of racism, after all, is the bland sympathy of a Bill Clinton telling you that if you just flip burgers well enough, enough will spill off the Croc family's banquet table to allow you a life of quiet desperation, and it damned well better be quiet, unless you're as charming as you kiss wealthy arses as Clinton himself is. Ah, well.
Ms. Coogan: Your remark about James Byrd's incredibly ugly demise is apt...and it kinda makes my point a while back about those good old days, where this kind of insanity might get a two-line mention in a police report column in the locality where it happened, and then again it might not. Now, it's trumpeted internationally. Unfortunately, either way it doesn't help Byrd, but the question remains--what can we possibly do about the kind of ugly furniture in human form who can actually do that kind of thing to another person (aside from install them in elite units of police forces or the military of most countries that have those institutions, I mean)? The new face of racism, after all, is the bland sympathy of a Bill Clinton telling you that if you just flip burgers well enough, enough will spill off the Croc family's banquet table to allow you a life of quiet desperation, and it damned well better be quiet, unless you're as charming as you kiss wealthy arses as Clinton himself is. Ah, well.
Well, Jim, the funny thing is that News Corp and TCI together smashed TV GUIDE and its ancillary properties and TCI's PREVUE CHANNEL (you know, the half or full screen rolling log on channel 2 or 120 or something like that on most cable systems) into an all-but-wholly-owned joint subsidiary, not yet named I believe, which has also absorbed a small listings service called TVSM. So we shall see. Yes, I now work for two media congloms rather than one. Old timers tell us the last years under Annenberg, that Spiro-loving so and so, were Interesting. We shall see how interesting things get now. This was driven by factors such as giving access to the TV GUIDE brand to TCI (who paid for that privelege), economies of scale in listing services (which will eventually be uh-oh for someone, unfortunately), and that TV G theoretically managed to lose money over the past year or so (and this leaves News Corp stockholders uncheered). We shall see. Hell with what Ellison has to say, you should hear dark fears in the stairwells and whispered conversations on the production and editorial floors...or, as I answered when my surgeon asked me how I liked working for Murdoch, "You mean, as opposed to Michael Eisner?"
Now that Murdoch has shoveled TV GUIDE off onto TCI I wonder: Will Harlan Ellison update his piece 'The Spawn of Annenberg'? Seems like he should. It would be fitting. Until next time...
Doc -- you're a true original -- what, I'm not sure, but you're definitely IT! ;-) Now I will display for all to see how really out of the loop I am -- I live in Madison, Wisconsin -- but what is this con you're talking about here? I have no idea! Of course, I've been in and out of the hospital, unemployed, and generally having a bad time of it. I sort of retreated from most human contact for awhile. Bouts of depression and having hizzy fits for awhile. It was wonderful! ;-O
Anyway, I am finally beginning to get back on track somewhat and am wondering what I'm missing! What's this 'con' and when? I don't think I've ever been this far out of whack. Haven't even picked up the latest in Ellison offerings. Lack of funds mostly. I'm glad to see we're all still here, though. It's nice to see most of the 'regulars' still alive and kicking (who or what is your choice, of course!)
Doc -- where are these 'intimidating' reviews of yours? I must read them and be thoroughly cowed by your flaming talent (no joke). Let me go before I get flushed. I will be more regular now that I'm feeling more myself (pun intended - maybe). Feel free to write me privately -- that goes for any of you. I need to talk to some 'real' people for a change. See ya!
Here's the info. re: the up coming show on that channel, which name won't be uttered here- Charlie
Arguably one of the most important science fictions writers of the twentieth century, Harlan Ellison has published more than 1,700 short stories, essays, movie and television scripts, and reviews. He has also served as creative consultant for the modern series of The Twilight Zone and for Babylon 5. He has received numerous awards, including the Hugo, Nebula, Locus Poll, British Science Fiction, World Fantasy, British Fantasy, Bram Stoker, SF Chronicle, International Horror Guild and Deathrealm Awards. For several years Ellison offered weekly commentary on the Sci-Fi Channel's Sci-Fi Buzz.
SCHEDULE
MASTERS OF FANTASY: Airs Sunday, June 14 at 10AM ET*
HARLAN ELLISON Thursday, June 18 at 8:30PM & 12:30AM ET*
Sunday, June 21 at 10:30AM ET*
Wednesday, June 24 at 8:30PM & 12:30AM ET*
I can see the light at the end of the rewrite gauntlet, which (provided that light isn't the proverbial train) will leave me free and clear to get back to my review after the end of the month...and my DragonCon plans have been scrubbed due to prior annual commitments (hey DOC - I see that little "I'm not the only one who can't go" happy-dance you're doing), though the con in Wisconson may be a fall-back position...MERLIN- Amazing what you can't discern in a crystal ball, huh? "JWP" was a small publication containing three of HE's pieces (all previously published) plus a new, two-page introduction; it was put out by White Wolf for the American Booksellers Association Convention in Chicago. I believe, though I don't have a copy here in front of me for fact-checking, that the contents were "Sensible City", "The Cheese Stands Alone" and "How To Make Life Interesting". Of course, the real joke in all of this is that for what amounts to an introduction's worth of new material, you'll get soaked on the secondary market. Buy yourself a nice, sturdy copy of Gentleman Junkie instead...KEEGAN - which dark, seamy underworld of jazz do you perform in? --Finder
Here's a weirdo question for Harlan: Did Harlan ever meet (my hero) Babs Gonzales while he was living in New York? If I'm not completely stupid, I guesstimate that they may have been in Town at mutual times. Anyway...I'm singing one of Babs's songs on Saturday. It's called, "We Ain't Got Integration". I had planned it for months and thought I would have to present this rather dated sounding obscurity as a period piece (with its references to the New Frontier, Freedom Riders and a teevee in every home). However, with the heinous act of brutal, racist, murder recently commited in Jasper, TX against one James Byrd Jr., I can only shake my head and see that the song is more timely than many of us would like to admit. Anyway, wonderin' if Harlan ever ran across Babs in his travels.
*MERLIN* Jokes without Punchlines could also refer to DOC's humor. Just kidding, *DOC* -- Billy D.
Merlin: it's a book (ba-hahahahahaha!).
could somebody please tell me what "jokes without punchlines" is?
merci.
could somebody please tell me what "punchlines without jokes" is?
merci.
"Bathroom humor?!?" How do you know what goes on in my bathroom? Anyway, a throne's a throne. Shocked, are you? Well, then, my efforts were not wasted. Now if you'll excuse me, this has been a draining experience, and I'm feeling a bit flushed. And who the hell is this "Frank?" - Cheers, Doc
Doc, I believe the word "intimidating" is being bandied about because your reviews are so good. Most of us schlepps that have signed on to do one are nervous about looking mediocre in comparison (I was gonna wax rhapsodic about wordsmiths who mix personal, downhome, street experience with love of the form and clever wordplay...but then you go and stoop to using bathroom humor...frankly Doc, I'm shocked [rhyme intended]). Out here, DTS
Jeez Louise! Try to get a few "sound effects" where ya had 'em, and end up with a double posted (of course, it ain't like I've never been double-posted before, but that's a story for an ENTIRELY different site,...[and I don't mean for sore eyes, either,...])
Wotta guy! Well, as your just reward, DT, you go and "supp" on it all you like. Intimidating reviews? Now, wait a minute! What's all this I keep hearing about my review work being intimidating?!? In any case, the review on LANBSM isn't going to appear with the relative alacrity the others enjoyed - busy having a nervous breakdown (kzzzzzzt! pop! pop!) Cheers, Doc
Wotta guy! Well, as your just reward, DT, you go and "supp" on it all you like. Intimidating reviews? Now, wait a minute! What's all this I keep hearing about my review work being intimidating?!? In any case, the review on LANBSM isn't going to appear with the relative alacrity the others enjoyed - busy having a nervous breakdown Cheers, Doc
Doc, caught an error in your last message and thought I'd point it out: second to the last sentence, I believe you misspelled the fifth word...it should be "supp-" etc., instead of "rep-" (who loves ya babe?). Yours, in spell-checking and instigation, DTS. (by the way, looking forward to your next review -- the reviews you've posted so far are more than impressive -- they're intimidating).
"They die of new ones," eh? That's a little too deliberate. Part of what makes Harlan's stories in general, and "Jeffty" especially, so personal is that Harlan doesn't try to make up our minds for us. Ending the story with the question not only keeps the reader involved, but keeps them thinking as well. If "Jeffty" were an open-and-shut case, it would be less effective. Thus say I, the repository of all argument. As you were - Doc
Joanna Russ once suggested (in F&SF, which also published the story in the special Ellison tribute issue in 1977) that the last line (sort of a spoiler warning) of "Jeffty is Five" should have been, "They die of new ones." Any thoughts?
Yipes, but this place sure slows down on the weekends! Welcome back from El Lay, Nicole - quite a town, huh? GREG> Is this up-coming HE appearance a new one, or a repeat? I'll watch it anyhow, but I just wanted to know how hard I should try to get in at the beginning. SUE> Have you been trying to e-mail me? I don't seem to be getting anything from some folks who say they've tried to zap me messages. Cheers, Doc
HE will vist with Tom Snyder on June 19. Warm up the Ovaltine and fluffen the pillows. As always, this should be good.
Well, I is back, able to answer e-mail again. Thanks all. I'll be looking. I have a crazy thought here: shall we try for the chat room sometime 6-8 PST again? All this week, maybe. Or if anyone else has some times...? Like to be able to talk to someone other than myself there (although I do have great conversations, but anyway) The thing about summer break is, now that I have all this time, even between writing and my job, what do I do with it? Oh, Doc, I got the address change. I'm not sure..did you get the last thing I sent you? Got quite a story.
I was watching THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN last night and he had George Carlin on. Given that I was half-asleep, had my head half-hidden by the pillows on the bed, and not actually looking at the box, I was struck by the similarities between Carlin's style and Ellison's style. Does anyone Out There know what HE thinks of Carlin--likes or dislikes--and what his take on stand-up comedians today is? (Given he was once one himself?)Until next time...
"Jeffty Is Five" (still my favorite story BTW) is also in the anthology THE FANTASY HALL OF FAME published by Harper. The cover proclaims that the stories were chosen by the members of the Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America. The book was edited by Robert Silverberg. My man got it for his birthday and it gratified both of us that "Jeffty" was included. BTW: I'm lovin' EDGEWORKS 3. I love Ellison essays. I especially enjoyed the lawnmower story in the intro. HE better watch out because I could *definitely* see the Simpsons ripping off that one. HE himself said he was sort of his generation's equivilent of Bart Simpson and ---OOH BOY!---what a trick to pull on Groundskeeper Willie!!
Nicole: you can find "Jeffty Is Five" in THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON. It's also included in the anthologies, THE BEST of THE NEBULAS and STRANGE DREAMS (both trade paperback). It was originally collected in SHATTERDAY, which will be reissued in the Spring of 1999 (along with NO DOORS, NO WINDOWS).
Gee, our flaming topics seem to have fizzled out. Oh well, we'll have something going on soon. Anyone know where I can find "Jeffty is Five"? Heard a lot about it, but never read it. Doc: can't get to my e-mail, so I'll ask here: would I be a pest if I tried to call him again? Might do it tomorrow, maybe.
And, yes, WM, it's the same Richard Geis.
"Finder"--you misunderstand me. I don't think of the days when lynching was a commonplace occurrence as "good". That was the point. I'm sorry a friend of yours was hanged. I'm also tired of listening and reading about how lovely life was before (your choice of scapegoat here). It wasn't. The fate of your dear ones reminds us that it remains not. At least some of the time.
Wolfmistress--I'd feared Geis was dead (considering how ill he was a few years back, while publishing THE GEIS LETTER), and was glad to see his recent notes in ANSIBLE, which i re-recommend everyone check out as a witty and consistently interesting webzine (as well as Hugo-winning printzine) about sf, fandom, and related matters. Browsers away.
"Finder"--you misunderstand me. I don't think of the days when lynching was a commonplace occurrence as "good". That was the point. I'm sorry a friend of yours was hanged. I'm also tired of listening and reading about how lovely life was before (your choice of scapegoat here). It wasn't. The fate of your dear ones reminds us that it remains not. At least some of the time.
Wolfmistress--I'd feared Geis was dead (considering how ill he was a few years back, while publishing THE GEIS LETTER), and was glad to see his recent notes in ANSIBLE, which i re-recommend everyone check out as a witty and consistently interesting webzine (as well as Hugo-winning printzine) about sf, fandom, and related matters. Browsers away.
One last thing: the ISBN numbers listed below probably wont work at local chain stores or online versions for a month or two -- until the information gets loaded into everyone's systems (by the way, the paperback reprint of Ellison is, according to the Houghton Mifflin catalog, supposed to include "two pieces not printed in the hardcover edtion," which probably means that the extra pieces from the limited, Ziesing edition will show up in the trade paperback). Goodnight moon...
Yes, I'm still here. Just lurking mostly these days, but every so often, I have to make my presence known.....
The Richard Geis mentioned below -- is that the same Richard Geis who once published Science Fiction Review????? I thought he died years ago???
Just wondering.....
FYI: for anyone still holding out for the paperback version, Mariner Books (the paperback arm of Houghton Mifflin) will be issuing SLIPPAGE in a trade paperback ($13, ISBN0395924820) in September (ANGRY CANDY, ISBN 0395924812, will also be reissued by them, in trade paper, that month -- the cover design looks like they're meant to compliment each other on display). Out here, DTS.
Finer: all I know about THE PRINCE OF SLEEP is probably what you know: the middle portion of that novel-in-progress (which was written, in part, to fill the void in SF where character-driven novels are concerned) was published as "The Region Between" and collected in ANGRY CANDY. Out here, DTS.
Let's try this again, seeing as AOL tossed me in mid-proofread of my post (I can see where HE might be suspicious of the whole computer thing...)...SUE: thanks for the pointer to the first page of "Objects..."; Of course, I knew going into it that those first few drops would leave me thirsty for the entire glass; I live entirely on the wrong coast for the whole HE experience...DTS: thanks for filling in the gaps on "Ellison Under Glass", which I'd heard about back in the planning stages, but had no detail about. Now, you wouldn't have any background on, say, "The Prince Of Sleep", would you? Inquiring minds usually get a severe poke in the eye...TODD: Good old days? As someone who actually had a friend who was, literally, lynched six years ago by persons unknown, I'm disheartened by the flippancy you treat an act of such terror and brutality with. Maybe I'm biased. Maybe getting blind-sided by a second-rate syndicated news magazine that actually broadcast crime scene photos of one of my best friends literally at the end of a rope will do that. It screws up your head and cuts you to the bone, I assure you...DOC: RE the preceding, I understand fully now how my aside regarding the .38 caliber destruction of furniture hit one of your buttons. Mea culpa - the shoe, my dear Hastings, she does not fit so well on the other foot, especially when elevated to a position within the mouth, no? Apologies for my errantness are tendered to you...
Todd - RealPlayer had nothing - they don't broadcast Anthem. NPR had an Archive site - with no sound clips - but it does have a pix of the Chris Carter note to HE, and the first page of the manuscript.. Can be found at: .....http://www.npr.org/programs/anthem/bios/hellison.bio.html
Re: Those good old days. We don't lynch people anymore. What used to happen in the ghettos and in the backwoods didn't used to get into the papers, at least not so much once the old POLICE GAZETTE folded.
Lenny Bruce materials: The old Fantasy albums from the '50s are available on CD from Fantasy. Unfortunately, their posthumous collection, THANK YOU, MASKED MAN, is not, yet. THE REALIST magazine/newsletter is offering a collection of Bruce writings that I suspect, but don't know for sure yet, contains some of the ROGUE columns. Fantasy Records stole its logo from the early issues of THE MAGAZINE OF FANTASY AND SCIENCE FICTION, which still lists Ellison on the masthead as Film Editor (and the very amusing Movie special issue is on the stands, dated July). ROGUE's publisher apparently treated successive editors Frank Robinson, Ellison and Algis Budrys very shabbily, and was prosecuted for obscenity-peddling not too many years later, for issuing a fed report on porn that dared to reprint many of the items under discussion. Odd little threads that weave through our lives. (Alex--TIME magazine went as far as to label Bob Newhart, then a standup, "sick", if I'm not mistaken, much less Shelley Berman, Mort Sahl, Lord Buckley, and no doubt Dick Gregory would've been lumped in had he been on the scene by the late '50s...or at least it lumped the "new" comics together and reported that some referred to them as the sick group...). By the way, and now I've forgotten who was asking, but RICHARD GEIS is alive and apparently well--see his brief contribution to a recent issue of the Hugo-Winning, completely browser-accessible online/print fanzine ANSIBLE, wherein he discusses an aspect of the smear campaign against Arthur C. Clarke by UK tabloids; Clarke has outed himself in response to thugs who later recanted charges that he was not simply gay, but a gay pedophile, and how can Prince Charles think of knighting such a monster? Sells papers...
1. Ellison in the DV window. He was interviewed for the next week's episode of the NPR arts show ANTHEM, for about 10 minutes or so...I dunno if ANTHEM gets RealAudio playback on the NPR website or on your local station's website, but someone who missed it and has RA might find that worthwhile to find out. Dangerous Visions bookstore was offering a signed copy of the story HE wrote to anyone who bought X amount of goods from them, for how long wasn't clear, but check their website (or elsewhere on this one!) for that datum. The i/v was pretty good, mentioned Ellison getting the public writing idea from an account of Georges Simenon doing it, then after having done it a number of times himself learning that GS meant to do it but ended up not being able to, and that Ellison, as far as he knows, is the first to do so.
2) More than a year ago, in a discussion similar to the one about guns, I suggested that we will continue to see excessive violence in this country as long as a significant amount of people believe their lives are worthless. You can't value anyone else's if you can't value your own. As long as everything is keyed to dollars (Hi President Bill, first among many!), this tendency will continue...and I predict that in the increasingly neoliberal world order, that we will see a rise in this kind of disregard in other countries, to go along with the fascist tendencies in the not so happy lands such as Bosnia, Rwanda, and Indonesia.
Btw, Sue, Might Makes Right is very antithesis of anarchy. It's pretty much what we have now, for that matter. As you suggest.
3) How 'bout that big planet, arguably the only good bigtime news this week.
4) Favorite Ellisonia includes "Up Christopher to Madness" and its introductions by HE and genius coauthor Avram Davidson, and "The Deathbird". Of late (heresy warning), I'm getting the impression that Ellison is becoming somewhat more self-indulgent in some of his nonfiction writing, notably the intros to the White Wolf omnibi. Are they going out under shifting deadlines or had to be done during recuperation from his major health problems of some months/years ago, I wonder. Happily, his fiction has suffered no such (probably temporary) slump. Not everything in TEAT or the HORNBOOK or WATCHING is as good as everything else, but Everything in those books strikes me as better than, say, the intro to EW 3. Ah me.
Wow! Wander off for a few weeks to get some serious writing done, come back, and there's blood on the walls and in the grout. My, my. Well, I won't enter into the fray on the gun issue because I know better than that. Anyhoo, been putting together a new web site (the old one died a horrible, lingering death...don't ask. Just know that no guns were involved but I still have my bullet to bite in times o' crisis). If'n anyone here how might remember Yours Truly wants to know when and where and how and why and all that neat-o stuff, drop me an e-mail with the header 'web site' (Hoping now, he said, fingers crossed behind back, that we have done do licked the e-mail problem), and I will let you know the particulars. As to other matters, just a quickie here: I understand the next EDGEWORKS volume (containing THE GLASS TEAT and THE OTHER GLASS TEAT) is forthcoming. How does this affect the future volumes on their release dates? (I know: Keep notes, attend class, and ^%$## PAY ATTENTION!!!. Shoot. I was in Mexico that day, prof-dude and there was, like, this really neat, like, chick, okay, and like she wanted to do alla Shakespeare, like, in, like the nuuuuuuude?). Until next time...
Doc - on the chats, I'll have to pass tonight, we're doing a 24 hour relay event for the American Cancer Society (no we're not going for the whole 24 hours! We have 1 or 2 blocks of time we'll be walking/running, plus attending some of the other events). I wouldn't mind trying for a regular time. 7 PM PST or later works better for me. I'm rarely home from work before then (6 PM AkST). Of course, my schedule is so erratic this days (long story deliberatly left out) that I'd hardly be a regular... Ta, Peg
Oops! (volume 1 of ELLISON UNDER GLASS - mentioned below -- should be He Cut Off Their Tales WIth A Carving Knife) Always in need of a good editor! Out Here, DTS.
Okay, since I started this discussion and none of us want to deal with "Doc" when he's in a depressed or (on pun intended -- really) grumpy mood, how's about I change the subject and ask a goofy question (goofy, because most of you folks hanging around here are relatively wet behind the ears as far as being hardcore, longtime Ellison fans -- what we veterans would call "newbies"): Any of you guys ever heard of ELLISON UNDER GLASS? It was orginally supposed to be published by Pulphouse Press, but since they went out of business before Ellison finished some really interesting sounding interstial material (essays about the process of writing; and an interview about how his idea for doing the "writing in the window" stunt came about), it didn't get published. But I've no doubt that it will be published in the years ahead. Since it will probably be done by a small press, you guys should keep your ears to the ground, your nose in the wind, and your eyes open for signs of activity. The prospectus I still have lists it as a 3 volume set (vol 1: He Cut Off Their TAILS -- that word's crossed out and replaced with TALES; Vol. 2: Chicanery Row; Vol. 3: The Eighth Day of Creation), which is why it will (most likely) be published by a small press in limited numbers (the first time out, it was 1,500 trade copies at $25 a book, plus a few hundred more copies at higher prices). Another reason is that the stories consisted mostly of reprints, since the "theme" of the set was stories Ellison had written in front of audiences (often while sitting "in the window" of a bookstore. Stories like "Hitler Painted Roses," "Django," "Strange Wine," "Working With the Little People," "Night of Black Glass," and "From A to Z, in the Chocolate Alphabet." Additionally, Ellison had (at the time) recently written another "window" story (still unpublished) entitled "From A to Z, In the Sarsaparilla Alphabet." (written in the Dangerous Visions Bookstore, 1991). Now, with him having written "Objects of Desire in the Mirror Are Closer Than They Appear" in the same shop last month, and planning to writer another story (with Neil Gaiman) in front of an audience at the Mad Media 5 convention in Wisconsin, perhaps interest in the ELLISON UNDER GLASS volumes will be stirred up. (WHATEVER YOU DO: DON'T BUG ELLISON ABOUT IT!) But keep your little ears to the ground (and watch out for passing cars, okay?) Yours in vigilance, DTS. P.S. (just read a few pages of BAG OF BONES by Stephen King -- if the rest of it is as good as the first chapter, this could be another "watershed" book in his career; much more "mainstream" than anything he's done so far; watch for it Sept. 22nd -- Be there, Aloha).
Well - here it is later, and fresh input on the guns issue. Phil Hartman, one of the hardest working men in showbiz, and one of the genuinely funniest to turn up in a long old time: dead. Murder/suicide, looking like his wife went off; some debate over whether their 9 yr. old son and 6 yr. old daughter actually saw it happen. God, deliver us from a Movie of the Week. And here we are, discussing for all we're worth. I'm not accusuing anyone - but why do I feel this way? Doc
PS - Anyone interested in making a stab at the chat room nightly, say, 6 or 7pm PST? I'll look for you....Doc
Buttons, buttons - we all gots the buttons. I don't think we're going to get at any answers that 1. seem really right, or 2. make us feel good about ourselves and our fellow human beings. I don't own a gun, I prefer not, I know what my temper is like. Takes a bit to get me to that point, but I can think of several people whose lives have been saved by the 7-Day Waiting Period. I guess it comes down to responsibility, in a way, like parenting. When people are driven by greed or need, when their lives are or feel so out-of-control that they have to grab onto something, the myth of "Power through Gun-Ownership and Threat of Violence" seems pretty tempting. And if the only experience a person has is on the dirty end of the stick, with some authority getting *their* way through physical force, how easy and logical it seems for us to turn into cartoon characters, reaching for progressively bigger mallets. Handguns, I have a major problem with, whoever is wielding them. I would never make light of the loss of someone's furniture (Finder >;^}); my step-dad once emptied a clip into our teevee set. But he was a paranoid jerk. Meanwhile, my father accidentally put a bullet in my uncle's chest, because they had been horsing around with blanks all afternoon - DOA. An accident that could have been avoided by both of them, and especially my father, **NOT** being yahoos (no slur on the search engine intended). We aren't battling "Evil" here; I suspect we're fighting a useless fight against childish carelessness on a variety of levels, some of them quite extreme. And common sense is about as common as common courtesy...Oy. Now that *all* our heads hurt, I'll leave off before I get into the personal and societal laziness bit, and beg, *beg* that we talk about something else. BILLYD> How many analogies can dance on the head of a philosophy? Cheers, Doc
Whew - is it heated in here, or is it me? Myth, denial, means, opportunity, motive, and gun control, all in the span of a week. Lots of valid arguments and interesting POVs. But I think a common thread running through it all is the complete and utter lack of, for want of a better term, "common sense" in society. What else can you call it when you know the probable results of your actions will be injurious to others (or yourself), and you still proceed forward anyway? In some cases, I'm willing to say it's a matter of an individual who through defect of reason cannot distinguish between right or wrong. But the vast majority of offenders just come across as ignorant: gee, officer, I didn't think I was so plastered that I'd hit someone; gosh, did I leave the stupid thing loaded?, etc., etc. It's either a complete egocentricity that makes people really believe bad things can't happen to them, or that makes them look at the consequence, shrug and say "Que sera sera." Can a cause really be determined? Are we just de-evolving to a less enlightened (or less conscientious)
state? Or has society grown so lethargic in modern times (with entertainment, food, work, goods and even "human" interaction
coming right to your home, forever erasing the need to leave home) that people just don't use the brains they've got in their heads like they used to? Let's face it, you can't be synched with the community around you if that community consists primarily of what comes in on the cable and extends only as far as the paneled
walls of your den. And the smaller your sphere, the less there is to be sensitive to - which makes it a whole lot easier for people to shrug and say "it doesn't affect me, it doesn't impact my world, it isn't my problem." GRRRRRRR - Enough already; I'm making my own head hurt...DOC: A triple dog dare? Give me a little room to move, and stay outta the way of my flying fingers - you're singing my tune. And I hope the fever's down...DTS: bibliofind provides quick results, but it takes all the fun (plus that old papery smell and long, high rows of crowded shelves) out of the hunt...BILLY D: Good luck back at you; I'm skipping Writer's Digest this time around - shot the moon scrambling for the Disney Fellowship back in May. Nice to have someone else sweating the same deadline...SUE: My concerns about balance are much simpler than four wheels - take it down to the level of two feet...and I make a diligent effort to give bikes a steady,
stable opening when I see them on the highway...PEG: I agree - getting a gun should probably take as long as, say, getting a passport. Unfortunately, that only plugs up the legal side of the sink. The guy selling them out of a truck behind the multiplex probably wouldn't bat an eye. Not to present that in an
anti-gun control vein (for I know that's an argument that's been used for not toughening laws), simply an observation. Me, I grew up in a house full of guns (dad was a State Trooper); I don't use them myself (I hate loud noises), but there were no mishaps around the house with any of us kids because early on, he taught us respect for the gun - AND he used his training and his brain in the handling of his firearms...except for that time he shot the dresser, but that's a tale for another post...Anyway, time to fly. Catch you all later -- Finder
***BillyD*** snicker.. giggle.. I like the "sample".. -snaps off a five-toed salute- .... ***DOC*** the "mature society" arguement - so whadda we gonna do about Egypt, Japan, India, and China?? Certainly foremost in structured societal longevity, ergo the most mature?? OOps! They are as violent as we are! Gun Control doesn't work in Egypt and India any better than it does here - and the sly devils of the Orient just invented new ways of mass carnage using common household items and their nekkid bodies so they didn't need guns.. And I agree - we discuss symptoms now, not causes. ***PEGGY*** A LOT more folks own cars than guns.. Cars DO kill a LOT more people than guns - just as intentionally. What's the difference between a gun-owner blasting away in the heat of emotion, and a drunk driver plowing through whatever can't get out of the way in a stupor of impairment?? Except the guns will kill a whole lot fewer people.. And the guy who pulls the trigger will be tried as a capital felon and go to jail for life (if not executed) - while the drunk will be tried for vehicular manslaughter, and be back on the road doing the same thing sans license in a year, more or less... ***ALL*** It seems to me it isn't a matter of the tool used - it's a matter of what is condoned and justified - and therefore acceptable - in the majority of individual people, who happen to BE society when taken as a lump sum.. There has always been violence among people - but how much is justified under what circumstances is the critical factor here. Examples: Casualties in War can always be fully justified. Capital Punishment gets murkier - can't be justified in some places, and totally justified in others. Killing in Self Defense is even murkier yet - depends on if Capital Punishment is OK, and how emotional folks get over the circumstances. Mercy Killings?? Whoa! Now THAT is a simmering black void... See what I mean? If you think violence will be elimated, or even reduced, by limiting the tools used, or focussing on a specific set of circumstances, you're missing a whole lot of context that will simply re-direct itself into new tools, and new circumstances. that's all... my brain hurts now..
*SUE* if you really really really can't wait for my review to peek at a piece of my writing, I keep a short article on my webpage which seems germane to the current topic. Check out www.inconnect.com/~wjdennis -- Billy D.
Oooh, okay, somebody hit my buttons. This is more like a rant than a post.... *rant mode on*
Guns. Guns guns guns. The right to bear arms. As I understand it, the purpose of that right was to be able to take a stand against your government, and it's no wonder the founding father's wanted it in there. After all they went through, they didn't want ANY chance that the people would be oppressed through the restriction of weapons.
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But in my teeny little head, well, I don't see a revolution happening any time soon; I don't see a need to own any type of gun to stand against our government. What I do see is a lot of crime being committed with guns. Handguns, shotguns, semi and full automatics, gangs, losers, desperate people, scared people. No one gun or one group of people is the SINGLE problem.
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I get REALLY tired of the 'it's my right to own a gun' and 'it's for recreation' argument. You know what? I live in Alaska. BOATLOADS of people hunt here. It's a major industry. I wouldn't say everyone household has a gun, it's far from that. But it's certainly considerably higher than the national average, and higher than most major metropolises. And we still have crimes with guns. We still have violent crimes (In fact, Anchorage has the largest reported domestic violence per capita - really sad fact). PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF GUNS DOES NOT GUARANTEE THE PREVENTION OF OR LOWER INCIDENCE OF CRIME!
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Don't get me wrong. You wanna own a gun for hunting? Fine. Like target shooting? No problem. Which is why I advocate....*evil of all evils* ..... gun control. Yes, I know we already have it. No, it's not effective. But, gosh darn it, it should take AT LEAST as long to get a gun as it does to get your income tax refund! It's easier to get a gun than a driver's license. At least for that you have to take a test.
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Why is it in this country that the activities requiring the highest amound of responsibility and level-headedness - like owning a gun or having babies - require so little determination of your qualifications (mental, physical, financial) to undertake that activity? Okay, I'm not gonna go down the whole God-given rights road here. But think about it a bit....
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I'm so tired of hearing the same gun ownership arguments. And to be fair, the gun control ones are pretty stale too. I look at things for balance. To me, for instance, owning a gun should be more difficult than owning a car or a house, because of the intense potential to do damage to other human beings. (yes, cars can damage, but generally that's not by intent). But on the balance they are easier to obtain - not counting the cash, just the process.
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Okay, *rant mode off*. Be careful with those buttons, wouldya?
......Peg
BILL> Hmmm. That wasn't my intended meaning. If it whittled down to that, perhaps I need to revise the post. What I'm getting at is symptoms as opposed to problems. Switzerland is a more mature society, as are England and the countries you mentioned. I don't think this country is ready for private ownership of guns - but try getting any weapons aways from America. The right to bear arms must surely have seemed more appealing when there were only 13 colonies to deal with. Aw, to hell with it - the cold and flu season does not inspire concise or well-reasoned discourse. See you when the fever's down,....
Whoops, that last append should have said, "focusing on guns AS the cure-all or cause-all..."
*DOC* I hope you don't mind if a synthesize a couple points out of your last Stream-of-NetConsciousness post. As your Switzerland reference shows, it's too simplistic to say, No-Guns=Low-Crime-Rate:Guns=High-Crime-Rate. America ain't Japan. Ain't Germany. If you gave everyone in Deutschland a firearm, their culture wouldn't become like ours. If you took away all we Yankee's guns, the killings here wouldn't stop either. Focusing on guns and the cure-all or cause-all, is like arguing how many angels can fit on the tip of a needle, when you should really be threading the thing and sewing up the rend. Ouch, I think I just pricked my finger on that last simile. -- Billy D.
Hmmmm - I think we are approaching lift-off. I'm not an atheist, but my "morals," - scratch that, I really have to draw a line between morals (as what society-at-large tells me is Correct) and ethics (as what I know in my heart is right). Which is all much of a muchness. There's a huge gap between classes, a gap that is swiftly erasing the "-est" of richest and poorest. I wonder whether the Founders didn't have something in mind along the lines of Switzerland, where the population *are* the militia, and in which each home has some sort of firearm(s). Not pistols, necessarily, but weapons with which it is also possible to hunt game (handguns are insufficient to that task, often). In short, everyone has 'em and the crime rate is appallingly low. I think that's also because the people have a healthier awareness of the consequences of what a chunk o' lead can do to a piece of meat, human or otherwise. There also seems to be the strangest disparity between notions of parental responsibility - I know people who have pictures of their kids in their wallets so they can remember what their kids look like; then, there are some of those kids I worked with in South Texas, with whom I had plenty of one-on-one chats about how much they missed their kids: 15, 16 years old, couple of kids of their own back at their parents' house, and desperately not wanting those nippers to grow up like their Old Man. Such circustances and attitudes weren't the norm, of course, but no eyebrows shot upward when the topic arose. Quite honestly, I think we operate in a culture of myth and denial. This is, after all, America, where the lowliest can grow up to be President, right? WE HAVE NO PROBLEMS IN AMERICA - AND IF WE DO, THEY BROUGHT IT ON THEMSELVES. Myth and denial. Lulled into a sense of false security. The poor are not our problem, and our decent, well-adjusted kids can look after themselves, because we are virtuous and God is on our side, and we are busy following the "Christian Work Ethic" and grabbing all we can as He directs,... The rough part is that it isn't even a conscious attitude, for the most part - just a national case of casual, criminal neglect. The US is the kid-nation, Baby Huey, like all the other nations were at some point in history; the timing is such that *this* huge baby has a helluva lot of dangerous toys - we can defend our immaturity to *everyone's* dying breath. That mind-set filters down from the national/social level, to the individual/family level - not *our* problem, mercy no; it's everyone else's problem; *they* can deal with it. Nothing wrong here,... This has become long and bitter - time to go take my effexor. Cheers, Doc
BillyD - BRAVO!! My point, much more clearly said..
**NICOLE** AI-yi-yi-YI! Yes, you -did- mention personal responsibility, often.. as something many people have 'gotten away from' these days (that was the gist I got).. So it made little sense to me that your post conclude with "it's about time we tried something totally new". Why? "New" *Is* this mess.. Let's just get back to what works.. Oh, and cyberpace is a deceptive thing - are you *sure* you are the ONLY teen (really more young adult) on this Board?? NOT. You're just the only one to make it a personal issue. Sure makes it hard to discuss things, when I have to edit out anything that may be misconstrued - and still grit my teeth when I hit "Send". It would be a LOT easier, if I had a shot at clarification before the broadside.. and you'd appologize a lot less... ;-) ... ****DTS**** WhaaaAAAaaat?? You expected SueTheClueless, the *shrug* Queen of "Oh-well" to "figure out" something?? ****FINDER**** Well, you're sure no biker.. hee hee.. worried about gravity and balance.. giggle.. Bikes are rolling gyroscopes - those sorts of problems are 4-wheel stuff: how high the center of gravity is, how much speed it can carry into how sharp a curve.. hee hee.. Convertibles are cool. Hubby has a Triumph Spitfire "fun car".. Lawn-mower engine.. :-) .. But still fun.. And welcome back. -almost forgot that..oops- and _do_ watch for bikes on the road - the life you save may be Mine.. ****BILLYD**** HOW many submissions?!?! Sheesh! And I think it's a GREAT day if I write 1 post, and answer all my e-mail.. Looks like you and Doc are gonna be Major Contenders in the Prolific category this year.. WOW! Makes me feel tired just thinking about it.. So, ummm - when can I read something of yours.. sayyyy, like a HE review??
In this age of sound-bite solutions, I think blaming our current social state on some single factor like child-rearing or godlessness is too simple. I'm not disagreeing that parents need to spend more time with kids (and I know it makes a difference in their behavior), but the idea of a 1950's utopia where parents doled gobs of time in loving child-raising is a figment of Dr. Laura's imagination. And hey, I'm an athiest, but I'll put my morality up against anyone's. No, I think we're dealing with a problem that is at least threefold: MOM--means, opportunity, motive. 1) Means--until 1947, there was no such thing as a strap-over-your-shoulder automatic or semi-automatic weapon. And until the last 10-15 years, even those were hard to get. When the Founders framed the constitution, we were still in the "pour-in-the-powder-and-tamp-the-bullet" era. The Supreme Court has already ruled (in the 1930's) that some weapons are illegal, like a sawed-off shotgun. Plus, I don't think anyone would argue that building one's own atomic bomb is protected by the Second Amendment. I wonder if the authors of the Bill of Rights would have worded that amendment a little differently had they known about AK-47's. 2) Opportunity--we live in an age of missing information. Daily, we're bombarded with so much information, but it's all so narrow. Sex and violence sell, so most information is channelled in their direction. In between, great heaps of important stuff gets left out. And since advertisers now have 12-14 TV minutes per hour, plus radio, plus Internet, plus cable, etc. etc., they take every opportunity they can to skirt giving us the information we need and show only the information they want. 3) Motive--the dispartiy betwixt the richest and poorest is growing, fast approaching the highest in history. Yet because of our interconnected society, those without are constantly reminded of what their missing. They want it. Out of sight, out of mind. In your sight can make you out of your mind. Anyway, I don't claim these three areas represent the whole of this complex problem, only contribute heavily to it, IMHO. -- Billy D.
*FINDER*, yeah, I'm a fellow contestant, trying to get two screenplays ready for shipping by that fast-approaching end-of-June deadline. Good luck to you, the $100,000 would sure come in handy. By the way, June 1st is the entry date for the Writer's Digest competition, and you need only the first fifteen pages for that one. I'm glad you already knew about the Script magazine contest, otherwise I was going to charge you a FINDER's fee. -- Billy D.
Doc: by the way, regarding your search for a cheap readable copy of GENTLEMAN JUNKIE: www.bibliofind.com has several copies @ $15 and one listed @ $9.00. THe bookstores in question can be contacte via email or phone, and they take checks as well as plastic. $9 seems fairly inexpensive (considering it's out of print in all editions). (and I'm not parting with mine). Out here, DTS.
Finder: thanks for the comments, you pretty much summed up what I believe (in the end) is the biggest problem -- people who have children and then expect the kids to raise themselves (so the parents can have more time to have fun). Having children seems like one of those things for which people should be required to get a license. Nicole: Hope you didn't think I was "slamming" you (or anyone else), merely observing an obvious problem and asking for opinions; the problem (as I've said before) with communicating via "post-it" boards (where I can't use italics and underlines for emphasis) is that it is too easy to have someone misconstrue something. Doc: I read your essay/review and thought it was both eloquent and insightful. (by the way -- sorry about the Infoman thing -- thought you & Sue had me figured out way back). Out here, DTS.
FINDER: You seem like a worthy,...well, given some of the goins-on here, I'll say, stout-hearted contestant, so let's cut the frippery, shall we? I **tripple dog dare you**. A cheap readable copy of GENTLEMAN JUNKIE is very alluring, if you find one. ALL: Anyone who wants my views on the current discussion is directed to my review of MEMOS FROM PURGATORY. I have some other, rather inflammatory views, but the gist is in "Current Demons." We simply have to decide what's the State's (or whoever's) responsibility, and what "we" must do as parents. NICOLE: try not to mistake misunderstood for slammed. Cheers, Doc
Jeez, that'll teach me to go away for a scant handful of days...*DTS* - I'm with you in terms of parental responsibility. My two sisters make an interesting case study in contrasts: one invests a great deal of time in her son (both in nurturing and disciplining), and at about two years old, he's already one of the happiest, most well-adjusted and behaved children I've ever seen. The other sister is more self-absorbed, egocentric, who pawns the boys off onthe television when she's too busy and performs little, if any, discipline. One son is already quiet, introverted; the other is, simply put, a little troublemaker, who isn't going to get any better. My big beef with all of it is that if you're too busy for your children, then your priorities must be way out of whack, and the last thing you should probably be entrusted with is the care and nurturing of that child. Or, put bluntly, most Americans don't need the V-chip, just a good swift kick in the tokhes...*DOC* - Oooh, a gauntlet AND a taunt. I feel so... challenged. All we're missing here is a good ol' fashioned double dog dare...*NICOLE* - I got your e-mail. Comments coming tomorrow (Wednesday). Promise. *BILLY D* - As a matter of fact, that would indeed be the KASA/Script magazine contest; the astute observation of a fellow writer/entriant, or just a random tidbit you picked up in your travels? Either way, you win the lollipop (betcha didn't know there were prizes for this sort of thing...) *SUE* - Alas, my road-tripping is done with four wheels, but it IS a convertible, so I get the wind in my hair and sun on my face without having to worry about those silly little things like gravity and my sense of balance...*ALEX* - Whether HE's fiction or non-fiction is a matter of my mood; if I'm looking for something I might hear on the front porch in the middle of summer from a dear Uncle who may or may not be exaggerating just a smidge (such as when he tells me he was a hired gun), I aim for non-fiction; conversely, if I'm sitting there wanting to be awed, thought-provoked or just plain old scared out of my socks, I pick up Deathbird Stories. As for personal faves: "Paladin of the Lost Hour" never fails to bring me to tears - something it shares in concert with the essay HE wrote about his mother's funeral. The name escapes, the tale can never. *PEG* - Greetings from the other side of the states, and welcome out into the open...I'd love to take you up on your most generous offer to see what lurks on the shelves up there (I've never actually gotten anything from Alaska), but I'm down to the point where Web Of The City is the easiet to find of the books I'm missing - however, I'm willing to offer same to you - and to *ALL* for that matter - to keep an eye peeled here in the east for what you're missing (I hit about eight different bookstores regularly, along with a dozen more in my old New York stomping grounds, and have turned up some VERY good discoveries for reasoable prices on a consistant basis; you don't think they call me Finder just because I work on an Apple Performa, now do you?) E-mail me with reasonable wants (the yardstick: paperback Strange Wine? reasonable. Advance publisher's proof copy of Strange Wine? Ah...no.) Yikes - long post. Waaay past my bedtime. Keep safe and I'll catch you onthe flipside. --Finder
Hmm. Thought I mentioned personal responsibility. And, being the only teen here, just had to say something about responsible teenagers. I understand you are not putting us all down as a group, but, you were right, the bad ones still get the most notice. That's sad, really. Now, I don't know if I was getting put down or something, but that's why I hesitate to post on these subjects, just in case, you know. I still remember last time ::shudder:: and do not want to go through that again...anyway, I thought I did say something about responsibility. No one should be excused because of power, position, etc, but we do that on a regular basis...::sigh:: Yes, parents have a role in it too, especially for younger children. On the subject of censorship, producers also have a responsibility. That's why there are warnings when the program starts. I was speaking of things beyond that. Really, DTS, I agree with everything you're saying, I'm just not as articulate about it. Guess I just don't have enough caffine in me yet to say anything clearly. Not putting myself down, just stating a fact.
**DTS** Right On! ... :-) ... I was just expanding the picture beyond the family unit to include the major factor driving this devolution.. The changing, and over-riding needs of business for mobile and maleable employees at will.. But, hey! If you get stuffed, can I watch???
Sue: it's late, and maybe I'm tired, but I'm not sure if you were saying right on or get stuffed. In any case, I'm sure that if the Founding Fathers had had to put up with the noisy, intrusive crap that kids today are able to spit outta their riding machines, old Ben, Tom and George would put a musket ball up their wazooes! (sometimes, when in a kind mood, I have fantasies about taking a hammer to the speakers of every BOOMING car that passes my house and fills the air with vibrations -- when I'm a real nasty mood, I dream about grabbing the kid by the scruff of his neck, throwing him from the vehicle, and fireing a LAW rocket at the entire hunk of junk). (hey, no one's perfect -- and I DO realize the differenc between experiencing such morbid thoughts and acting on them). Anyway, thanks for the input. You go, girl. Out here, DTS.
Nicole, not sure where you arrived at some of your conclusions (had to go back and read my post again, to make sure I didn't actually say or inferr some of the things you said), but I can assure you that I don't condemn all teenagers and immediately think they belong to gangs, do drugs or commit murder. The one crack I did make (about wreckless teenage drivers) usually applies to male teenagers, and is a generalization that (unfortunately) is often true (in fact, the starved for attenion idiots who drive around with their speakers at full capactiy are -- in my experience -- always male). (by the way, invest in companies that manufacture hearing aids -- I'm certain their stock futures will be great). As for any sort of censorship, I've never condoned it. I DO believe that creators (writers, producers, etc.) of television shows, movies, etc., should be responsible in the product they produce. ANd that THEY should be their own enforcers. Unfortunately, greed usually wins out. Nevertheless, I'm certain that the increased amount of gratuitous violence in TV and movies (more often than not, violence of the kind that never shows the results of such actions)plays no small part in the callous behavior of many young people today (there are, of course, many contributing factors, as I mentioned in my last post). ANd not just fictional shows, because the popularity of Fox television shows like COPS (in which real life violence has suddenly become entertainment) or empty-headed chattel like the "talk shows" of JERRY SPRINGER and RICKI LAKE (in which public humiliation and physical abuse are pawed as entertainment) are no longer anomalies -- they make up fifty percent (or more) of the crap that spills out of the tube. Even so, I don't condone censorship. Cause you'll notice (in that first post) I mentioned parents and personal responsibility twice. Even with all this extraneous crap (guns, violent TV, movies, video games, our fast-food, materialistic culture, etc.) contributing to the hollowing out of our younger generations, I still believe that (with the exception of those genetic anomalies mentioned earlier)at the end of the day, the people who are most responsible are the parents. They have the power to say no. To turn off the boob-tube baby-sitter and give their time to a developing mind. To take an errant child in hand and give him or her the attention that is needed. To set an example by not drinking and driving, etc., etc., etc. But too many Baby Boomers (like many of their parents before them) have decided to use the easy way out and put the blame on any and every thing else. But I'm raving again. I'd rather hear other people's opinions and thoughts (and, in any case, Nicole, I know there are plenty of good, level-headed teenagers and twenty-somethings -- unfortunately, the rise in numbers of the other kind is a problem that gets more attention. ANd, as I said before, in America, the number of youths commiting such atrocities as the one in Oregon (and Kentucky, Miss., KY., PA., etc) has become as regular as the seasons. Scary. Out here, DTS.
**NICOLE** How about trying something *really* OLD - personal responsibility and self-sacrifice for the good others? Seems to be the theme of most religious theologies.. **DTS** It makes great rhetoric to champion Individual Rights - very popular with folks who don't seem to tumble to the connection between unfettered "personal" rights and the anarchy of Might Makes Rights - but it was never the intention of the Founding Fathers to promote the rights of the individual over the good of society; merely to create checks and balances to maximize both, and minimize abuse by either. Seems that we are finally achieving those paramount individual "rights"... If we don't notice that Business has more rights than individuals, has more power than individuals, has no conscience, and is the driving force (to serve their bottom lines) behind most changes in this century. Gee - I don't have a CLUE what the problem is.. But don't try to build ANYTHING on *your* property that doesn't strictly conform to law and ordinance - - unless you are a corporation - and then it is your right to make a profit.. Even if it plows under wetlands, and destroys virgin forest.. GEEZ - I wish I *was* clueless!
DTS, gotta respond here. First of all, not all teenagers are raving, drug-using heathens. I think I'm pretty decent, anyway. Doc can back me up on that one, can't you? Never been in a gang, never used drugs, none of that. Anyway, I refer you to the transcript of HE's last appearance on Politically Incorrect, assuming it comes up. HE made some really good points about personal responsibility instead of shifting blame to the media, and I really agree with that. We are becoming a gun culture, and there doesn't seem to be any stopping it, at least with the current methods. Personal responsibility is really missing these days. Take the NRA's position on this. They see no problems with guns, and their existance has caused problems with regulating firearms. They refuse to acknowledge that guns are there to kill people. Shifting blame. They blame T.V and shows like South Park. I remember about a year back some show, something with the name "Butthead" in it, they lit things and chanted "Fire! Fire!" Now, out of all those kids that watch the show, one sets fire to something. One kid, perhaps two, my memory is fogged. Anyway, instead of blaming the children for it, they shift it to this T.V program that many kids watch. Now, in my opinion, this is where censorship begins. If one or two people can't handle something, then that's their problem. Don't deprive the rest of us. I am way off track now, and I could rant about this for days, but you see (I hope) what I'm getting at. Before we can start reforming our country, we have to do what other nations have done and put the blame back where it belongs, instead of shifting it to the closest target. I think, that if we keep going in this direction, mass censorship is inevitable. Ever read Faranheit 451? We are headed in that direction, and it's about time we tried something totally new.
PEGGY - - - Well, I got the old Heave Ho... See ya in 2 - 3 hours. :-)
*Sue* - Lady I tried.... But couldn't get it to work from our laptop. (the laptop is networked to the desktop and actually uses the modem connection through there. My hubby chalked it up to slow access times, it being 5 pm and hi traffice times. But me I figure there's other problems, something far more devious trying to prevent me from having any intelligent discourse with anyone about Ellison.....)
I'll check back later when I can use the desktop. Sorry I missed you, maybe tomorrow??
Peg
Well, what a day! *------------------------*
First, scored 2 in the bookstores (though, sadly, not the ones I'm missing). Caught copies of "Gentlemen Junkies" and "Earthman, Go Home" (AKA "Ellison Wonderland, later release).
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*--Sue--* Well, I'll give it a shot. But the hubby has already laid claim to the desktop computer when he gets home tonight. In which case I can try it from the laptop, but the chance of success drops rapidly....
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*--DTS--* Wow, so, tell us what you really feel?! My husband and I have talked these topics a bit. In the end it seems to boil down to the American philosophy of avoiding responsibility and high expectations. I should send you a copy of the "Bill of No Rights" which explains things like, no, you don't have the RIGHT to wealth; no, you don't have the RIGHT to be happy, though you do have the right to *pursue* happiness; etc. Really great, and you sound like someone who would appreciate it.-----------------------------
So many aspects of our society seem linked to the feeling the people have a right to a good job, or wealth, or pleasure and should have it handed to them. When it isn't they get frustrated and upset, it doesn't mesh with their life vision and they lose it. And their reactions seem tied to the fact that people don't believe they have to take responsibility and/or face the consequences of their actions. I know from my experience that people frequently make that mistake about Christianity and other religions. They equate forgiveness with the *removal of consequences*, and when that doesn't turn out to be true they then blame God or Allah or Buddha or whoever it is.--------------------------------
Even violence on TV can be drawn here, since the stations and programmers of the TV lineup claim it's not their responsibility to enforce ratings or ensure that kids don't watch violent programs.*sigh* Then parents blame jobs, employers blame the competitive market, marketing blames the consumers. On and on and on. Someplace ya just gotta stop. (BTW, I happen to work for a company that IS flexible to families; but I've also noted that has as much to do with supervisor's and bosses mentalities as it does with corporate culture).------------------------
This is getting too depressing. Hopefully I'll be in the chat at 5 PM AkST (= 9 PM EST).
Peg
I know this isn't sticking to the current "topic," but you folks seem to be such a varied and thoughtful bunch, that I just gotta ask: what do you think of the (fairly) recent spate of murders (mass or otherwise) that are so prevalent here in North America? Maybe it's just me, but since I moved back to America (8 years ago) from Germany, I feel like I fell down the wrong rabbit hole. Instead of Wonderland, I find myself in Underland, where the world has been turned on its head. Relgious groups holding sway over politicians (I know they're easily bought out,but gimme a break), conservative values saturating most of the twenty and thirty something crowds, and violence spreading faster than a wild fire in West Texas. I find myself talking about the "good Ol Days" when I was a kid, and my parents would let me run wild in the neighborhood (in Corpus Christi -- great symbolism, eh), not having to come home until dark; and now, I'd never think of letting my daughter ride off (when she's ten or older) on her bike for an all day adventure;I'm even afraid to leave my daughter out in the front yard too long (at 8 years of age) because there seem to be more cars filled with even more reckless teen-age (or even bone-headed adult) drivers these days (and while I'm about it -- am I the only one who wishes that a Federal Law could be passed requiring automatic ticketing and fining for anyone playing music so loud in their car that it fills your home as they pass by? As a teenager, I played loud music, but it wasn't done to this extent! It's as if the idiots who created the technology gave all the attention starved, pimple faced, moronic young male teens a license to step all over my (and everyone else's) rights!). As for the increase in violent children, I've a theory that falls in line with some of the aforementioned thoughts. After a conversation with Ann Rule in January (writer of great nonfiction crime books, THE STRANGER BESIDE ME being her first), the wheels in my head were set to spinning. Although I agreed with Ann when she said that some people are just born evil (a genetic mishap, in which they have absolutely no conscious), I believe (for the most part) that the children of America are (percentage wise) more violent than other countries because of a combination of things: increasing violence in films, TV and video games and a lack of parental guidance and responsibility; a proliferation of guns in our society which has gone far past the out-of-control stage; our fast-food way of life (in America) which contributes to the stress level of everyday life (this affects families in a big way -- ask anyone who's had to juggle the raising of a child with 40-plus hour a week job that is an hour or more away from their residence, and comes equipped with a boss that wont give any slack on "late time" (not even when the worker stays over or takes the night or holiday shift when someone else wont -- "family oriented" corporations are a load of crap); a declining economic infrastructure (and lack of responsibility on the part of large corporations) that has slowly seen jobs being transported out of inner city areas to third world countries; parents who have children but then don't want to take responsibility for them (dropping them off at grandma's every weekend so they can party; rarely spending time with them let alone TALKING with them; looking on the children as some sort of burden that has to be born -- as if the CHILD had them and not visa versa)...and a more than a few other things. Wow. I spewed a lot of bile, but I feel pretty strongly on the subject. Anyway, what do you folks out here in Webderland think? Why has America suddenly become the Land of Mass Murderers and Serial Killers (no joke -- check the statistics sometime -- we're world champions at producing them). I can't wait to hear your opinions. Out here, DTS.
**ALEX** Yeah - I've noticed that, too, about new folks on the board feeling they aren't up to snuff.. and LAUGHED.. 'cause I was one of them a ways back.. Strange, isn't it? So easy to give credit to others, so hard to feel you merit any.. Well, let me amend that - we've had our share of folks who ONLY give credit and merit to themselves, too... ;-) ... For me, it has a lot to do with the amount of detailed HE information which fills posts on a regular basis - hey! I just read the HE stuff I can find - I gotta know EVERYTHING marginally related to the guy, too???.. 8-0 .. Don't feel I have much to say on a lot of the threads most of the time - unless "huh? I dunno." counts.. **PEG** hee hee.. yup, you're now officially in the minority on this board - I think Keegan and I are the only other regulars to flatly state we are *not* writers, and have no aspirations in that direction. Welcome aboard! I think there's room for 3 on this pine bench.. Which makes it all the more odd to me that I would be one of those intimidating "Reviewers".. I appologized-in-advance and whined my way, for the better part of a year, through the whole darn thing - and now that I'm getting all this Whoopdeedo response, I'm intimidated by ME.. sigghhh.. Don't think I could do it again.. *shrug* Yaknow - sometimes success ain't all it's cracked up to be. Go Figure.. And no, I'm not insecure, have no self-esteem problems - quite the opposite - I know EXACTLY who I am, and like it. "It" just doesn't happen to include things like being an author.. And you are right about the chat line - I keep tooting into an empty room.. Caught a "leftover" guest a time or two.. Howsabout we try for 9pm EST? That seems to be the best time for getting North Americans together everywhere else. **NICOLE** I really like your posts (the wide-open feature on the honesty is nice; the ability to hear other points of view is Great; and the person behind the words is heard loud and clear) - so take this as the "helpful hint" it is meant to be.. Insecurity consistantly voiced comes across as A) a cry for help, or even worse B) fishing for compliments - because that's what they usually are.. it's unfortunately not an 'uncommon' behaviour. I don't think that's what you mean to put across - so I thought I would mention it. **ALL** It's looking like Summer is going to be BUSY! The calendar has become our favorite "puzzle game", trying to fit all the stuff we want to do in between the stuff we have to do. DragonCon is a "GO"... :-) ... and if ANY single person in that horde is 'easy' to spot, it will be me. This time Hubby will be along, so I should get some good pix of HE for Webderland (Hubby clears out a lane for picture-taking REALLY well.. hee hee - no back-of-the-head shots of jerks trying to see what I'm taking a picture of..). I'll be in and out of here - never could decide if I am a wannabe-lurker, or wannabe-regular.. -grin-
1) A week or two ago I asked if anyone read "Troika", by Chapman and whether anyone liked it. It won the Philip K. Dick award (1998). Anyway, no one responded. So, I went ahead and bought and read it. I recommend this one. It's similar in vain to IHNMAIMS as there's a music box controlling three souls which in turn is run by an angel. The writing conjures some wild imagery (a jeep and a brontosauraus attacking each other) and the writing is well done.
2) Does anyone have that Science Fiction coffee table book that came out about 3 or 4 years ago that won the Hugo for best non-fiction book. ($40 retail) It's a run through of science fiction history and authors, with their photos and major works. It has the black dj and silvery emblem on front. Anyway, I thought the entry for HE was less than flattering. The author basically states that HE is a performance writer and writes short stories because he's incapable of writing novels well. Does anyone know what the author's problem is re: HE?
3) A few weeks ago there was a discussion whether "Islands" was part of the HE Discovery Series. Anyway, I was able to confirm that it is, even though there is no HE introduction. Charlie
Oops... couple of quick points - If all you're looking for in Ellisonia is some rare british edition or a release of only 200 books, well don't be surprised if I can't find it either. But I *-AM-* willing to try. I've just noted before from some of the earlier postings and mentions on the want ads that some of those titles I recall being at the store.
Second - have made it succesfully into the chat room with Netscape. But so far I've been the only one there each time. If anyone is truly interested in a chat, maybe email me with date/time? Otherwise, I think we're all in too many different time zones to be here at the same time.....
*Alex* - nope, not mine. Got a really old, orange hardback of "Approaching Oblivion". The one's I think I'm missing are "IHNMAIMS" and "Paingod and Other Delusions", both in paperback.
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You can trust I'll be by the used bookstores today! One thing about living in the middle of nowhere, there aren't a lot of HE fans. You'd be amazed what I find in our local used bookstores. Most of which I leave there because I have copies already. Or now, with the Edgeworks releases I can get them later (assuming HE is still kicking around by book #31). BTW, I'm more than happy to look for a particular book if you have a lot of trouble finding it. Just email me and I'll take a shot.
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Onto the other comments. Folks, it ain't that I feel unworthy. No problems, way healthy ego (although mine's not named "Lobo"... *grin*). It's more the literary skills. You'll notice that most of the people who post to this board are the same folks who write the reviews; many of you are also published in paying arenas as well or aspire to be writers. I took a brief look at a couple of the reviews last night - there is a lot of talent around here! (and that ain't sucking up kiddies, it's pretty impressive).
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Fact is, I'm just not a literary type. I read for enjoyment and entertainment, but I don't spend a lot of time analyzing it. I either liked it or I didn't. It was okay, coulda used some better this or that. But frankly that's as far as I go. I'd be ashamed to admit here or to HE some of the stuff I've consumed. (I know I fit in a few categories of Rick's top ten in his latest rant).
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I'm not apologizing. I read what I want for the reasons I want. No matter who thinks it's lousy writing or trash or commercial ripoffs or just plain insulting to Mom, Apple Pie, yadda yadda yadda. The point (and there is one here somewhere, I promise) is that when it comes to commenting on written word, I'm not in the same league as many of the folks here, nor do I have any desire or aspiration to be. Ain't my schtick. (good coffee, good wine, chemical engineering, oil exploration and production...these are my schticks). I do really enjoy "hearing" what you have to say. And I have NO LACK of opinions to offer of my own. Just want to make sure y'all are forewarned on the quality and nature of the comments I make. (I just hate it when people have the wrong expectations....can you tell?!)
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Well, ta for now. And I mean it about the request to look for specific HE books. Last time I was at the UB, there were over 1/2 dozen hardbacks and a few paperbacks as well. No charge (call it my service to humanity!). *whoosh* Peg
Alex, I think we _both_ know who you're talking about with the "worthiness" issue. Peg, you're not alone in missing some of the subtleness (bad speller- forgive me) in those stories. Course, I chalk mine up to youth and only being a HE fan for about 4 months. Keep posting! You got some good stuff to say, chica!
Picking a HE favorite is like trying to choose a favorite word from the dictionary; so many just sound so damned neat, and with all those subtle shades of meaning. But in terms of being unexpectedly kicked in the gut until my intestines were rearranged (I think I now have a medium, as well as large and small ones), nothing has ever shazam'ed me like the introduction to Shatterday, where HE--on a radio talk show here in Salt Lake City in the mid-70's--admitted he wished his sick mother were dead. I know the culture here in Utah, the courage it took HE to make the statement, and the "yes-I'm-not-the-only-one" relief of the woman who called in afterwards. Wow, I'm shaking just thinking about it. -- Billy D.
An aside to veteran regulars: Am I the only one to notice that the last few recruits, though good people and fun to have around, doubt their own merit--for lack of a better word, their [shudder] "worthiness" to be here? It's a lovely compliment, but really, kids! The ingenue role has already been awarded! It's weird having to reassure intelligent people that yes, they are "good enough" to be here ...
Peggy: My condolences on your loss; still, I can't help but feel guilty: Was that YOUR Book Club _Approaching Oblivion_ I picked up a few months back in the used bookstore ("The Happy Booker"--I kid you not) for three bucks? Oh, and please don't get insecure about posting--or about posting a lot--you're a good addition to the board. So stick around, Peg!
You ever have one of those Oh No seconds? Well for a while now I've suspected that I'm short a couple Harlan books. After a look at a couple of reviews I just KNOW I am. *argh*... probably got sold to used bookstores back a few years ago when I was *-brutally-* cleaning out my book collection (no mercy - spare no prisoners!)
*sigh* terrible, dark, pit in stomach forming...major depression
(at least they're not the signed copies, I'm pretty sure I didn't ever sell back anything signed...I think)
*double argh*
Hmmm...., well, here goes. On the subject of Ellison faves... It was an interesting experience, to go back and re-read some of the stories mentioned here, and by so doing rediscover what I might consider my favorites.
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Given my terrible retention I have a hard time saying any stories are actual favorites, simply because I hate to exclude what I just don't recall. Not fair to the material. In this case these are the stories I find the most memorable, that stick in my head regardless of how much I like or dislike the writing. As I mentioned in an earlier post, I ain't no writin' critic. I've never been terribly creative with the written word, and subtlety is wasted on me (which is, I think, one reason I'm attracted so much to Ellison's work - definite blunt punches in much of it. Sure, there's the subtle bits I miss, but that's why there's folks like you to review and critique. *grin* And frankly, I don't care all that much about the structure of his paragraphs as long as I got the point...). Anyway...
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For me I find that certain stories have images that stay with me and pop up when least expected. "Croatoan" is one of the more vivid physically, psychologically, and social relevance. And "Grail" - not for it's intensity but for the bittersweet moral brought forth (though I don't necessarily agree with it - of course, that's why it's fiction, people). Others are memorable simply because they were among the first HE stories I read - "Jeffty is Five", "IHNMAIMS", "Repent, Harlequin". These I chalk up to the first-time exposure to Unca Harlan, and they're the heavy hitters, too. When you're used to the run-o-da-mill SF/Fantasy, it's quite a memorable experience to read his particular style of fiction. After a while it's less jolting, more something you're comfortable - or more accurately - familiar with (I'm sure HE would HATE someone being comfortable with his writing....*laf*). I know I can depend on HE to deliver material that will impact me.
And I have to throw "Mefisto in Onyx" in here. I know some folks feel the writing isn't great - which of course doesn't bother me - and that the plotline is predictable. But I don't spend my time trying to figure out what's going to happen when I read fiction. I like to read and let the story happen (which isn't to say that I sometimes *can't wait* to FIND OUT what happens. I just don't want to try and suss it out ahead of time...) And for that it's a great, fast moving, twisted little tale. IMHO.
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As for the non-fiction vs. fiction - well, I read fiction for the entertainment. With HE's particular style, and attitude (which I do so admire - I just love a good obnoxious ribbing!), I enjoy and am entertained by his non-fiction as much as his fiction, whether I agree on the particular point or not. And - sing it with me this time, folks - I'm not a writing critic, so I can't really say I find one genre better written than the other. They both hold my attention, they both say something to me.
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If there's a particular theme in Ellison's work that draws me back, it's that - to me - he seems deadly accurate in transcribing the best and worst of what humanity can be to paper in both ordinary and extraordinary circumstances. HE seems to identify in his works both the most vile and - though much less frequently - the most noble of our human capacities. (that's about as intellectual as I get, folks.)
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Well, I hope I haven't worn out my welcome with all that lengthy posting. Take comfort & refuge in the fact that it won't happen with any great frequency...
Peg
Doc: regarding Infoman, he's alive and well, and living in my brain (at least, one room of it). Yours, in multifacets, multi-channels, and multi-personalities, DTS (out here).
Thanks for the direct, Vic. Strange, but your syntax seems somewhat familiar. Hmmmph - isn't that funny? By the way, anyone heard anything from or know whatever became of Infoman? Cheers, Doc
Everyone should proceed post-haste to Amazon.com and check out the brand new interview with HE. Here's the address (unless it's deleted...) It's at www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/subst/categories/science-fiction/1998-may-26-ellison-interview/002-2497279-3155263
Highlights include Unca Harlan's comments on using a typewriter, the reason for the "Repent!" re-issue, and a nice intro to the EdgeWorks series. In other news, all rumors concerning HE writing the next Godzilla movie are probably untrue, as is the reports of Frank Zappa doing the score. Toodles y'all...
Ooh, here goes my first try! I'm gonna download the page, then look at the HE stories mentioned in the last day or two. Pull out one of my semi-extensive collection, brush up on said stories, then log back on and add hopefully meaningful comments!
(Otherwise I can't even remember what the story was about in the first place... sad but true)
ta for now....
Yaknow, this has happened too many times now.. I am absent for a while, and WHAM! posts up the Wazzoo.. My cunning deductive logic tells me there's some connection.. - pause - Naaahhh... **PEGGY** Welcome!.. That was no spray (nose-spray?, eeuuww!) that 'got' you - it was the virulently contageous virus D-LuRk, cooked up in the top secret R & D section of Luesse Labs (otherwise known as the Kitchen). Glad to know it worked - didn't seem to have any affect at all on the family dogs when we tested it on them.. I know - what a load! - but it did allow to me accomplish a secret redundancy goal: using virulent and virus together.. - giggle - And what's all this about not wanting to do Foot-N-Mouth?? ahem Why should *you* be the only one here _not_ executing this most honorable manuever of the Ancient Art of Tongue Fu??.... Good to see you again **JON** - summer vacation? ;-) - and, boy, am I glad you got so much feedback on the "cooking up something to read" - 'cause the only reading people do with my cooking is looking up the number for the Poison Control Center.. And somehow, I don't think that was part of your Big Picture.... **BILLYD** - Always love seeing your name on the Board. Literally. I don't know why it innitiates so many wild mental images....**FINDER** AOL?? No WONDER you'd rather be on the road.. Which brings up an Important Question - what wheels are you riding on the Road?? (hoping it's 2 wheels) **ALL** On the ficiton vs. non-fiction preference thread: HE's FICTION - and imagine my surprise to see that I am cast among the "majority point of view" on anything! And then listen for the echoing snort of laughter that follows - since the majority of opinions voiced here (even if as bets hedged) declare themselves to be in the minority.... On the *favorite* gut-wrencher thread: Hard to say, since HE seems to set 'Twist' and 'Punch-Power" as goals in his writing - so anything he writes does that (more or less) - and to what degree is only a matter of personal experience tie-in.. The #1 "Stick to your Ribs" story for me is Try A Dull Knife. Don't ask.. Read the review, if you just HAVE to know.. GEEZ - I forgot what else folks were talking about.. And who those folks were.. Well, this is already long enough.. I'm outta here - and I'll be back..
The Ellison story that I return to, again and again and again, is "Strange Wine." Anything can set off a return to that story: a story I read the other day in the paper about a - I think - fifteen-year-old girl who was hung by her friends because she was gonna rat out their plans to run away to Florida; learning that one of my old bosses (one of the good ones, imagine the goddamned luck) finding out she had two cancers eating her away; anything, right? The pain in that story, and the beauty in it don't set things right -- what could? -- but they make it a little more bearable.
Right now, though, I'm leaning towards the non-fiction: it's leaner, meaner, funnier, and inspiring than the fiction (to me at least), especially now that I've hunkered down and set my mind to getting through my journalism courses.
BTW: Thanks, everbody, for setting me straight on the Bruce thing. And, does anyone have copies of any of HE's appearances on talk shows, etc from anytime, anywhere? I've started taping what I can, but I have a busy schedule and inevitably end up missing something. Anyhoos, if anyone out there's got a tape that they wouldn't mind dubbing for me, I'd be more than willing to shell out some cash in trade.
Thanks for the help! I will check into these titles. On another tack, I just went to see the movie "Bullworth" and would recommend it to you. It is interesting how the parallels between inner city gangs and the heirarchy of Washington politics are set up. Well, gota go, I have to rest before marching in the parade tomaorrow. JJCB
Food? I wish I knew less about that than I do,... One of my faves even has a movie tie-in (like Mr. Wonka's): JAMES AND THE GIANT PEACH. Specifically "kid" stories with food are a bit challenging, but I *have* run into - late in the day, as usual - a mystery series by Diane Mott Davidson. They aren't too gruesome for younger readers who are interested and/or precoscious, and there's little, I think, that parents would find terribly objectionable. The central character (not a detective, per se) is a caterer in a Denver suburb community, one Goldy Baer, single mother and spousal-abuse survivor. The big kick to these is that she includes *recipes*!! Yes, even indexed in the back for your convenience, they are strewn about the book where appropriate, some are easier than others, and all the books have some sort of theme. Some of the titles: CATERING TO NOBODY; DYING FOR CHOCOLATE; THE CEREAL MURDERS. Get the drift? They're really nifty - ask for them by name, accept no substitues, will not stain your bedclothes, etc., etc. Bon Appetite, Doc
John Basten, regarding your soliciting suggestions for stories that will relate to food: how about THE CHOCOLATE WAR by R. Cormier? Or, my favorite, CHARLY AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY.
On the topic of which is better, I find I lean towards (only a slight leaning)the non-fiction. I suppose it is because, too many people state opinions with out any foundation, and I admire anyone who can, and does, show you where to find the supporting arguments. I have found that I've ruffled a few feathers by asking a simple,"why do you believe that?" Some folks haven't taken the time to examine their convictions, they just repeat phrases to keep the "conversation" going.
BTW this summer I am conducting a class for our local rec department called "Eatin' through Readin'" where we will read stories and then make some food that is related to the topic. It is for 3rd grade through 5th grade, and if anyone has suggestions for stories let me know, the more options I have the better.
Gotta Go and Have a Heckava Day Now, JJCB
Doc, I agree completely. Two pages into "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" I was lying on my bed, crying. Of course, that may be just because I played the game first (I would reccomend the game to anyone, hoping you can find it. It's a little scarce about parts) and I really knew the characters. But, yes, quite a few of Ellison's stories have left me lying in a prone position, a blank stare of horror on my face. I want to be able to write like that someday. That is my goal. Same with the intro to "Slippage". Powerful, as much as his fiction. As for perfering one (fiction or nonfiction) over the other, I don't. They compliment each other perfectly. Both have their place, and both are good.
Let's see, beating lassitude,...um, I bet I can eat fifty eggs! As for the Ellison stories that grab me and squeeze, first on my list is "I Have No Mouth,..." I find it very (that is, *very*) disorientating; I feel numb and unreal after reading it. "The Sky Is Burning," "The Resurgence of Miss Ankle-Strap Wedgie," "Neither Your Jenny Nor Mine," "Daniel White For the Greater Good," all send me fetal. Harlan hits a lot of my buttons. Regarding the fiction vs. non-fiction question, I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Dorothy Parker was excellent in prose, verse and criticism; Robert Benchley's humorous pieces stand toe-to-toe with his serious essays. Apples and oranges, I say, both fruit and I like them equally (except for grapefruit - feh! grapefruit!) Anyone have any feelings on the contents of LANBSM? That's next on my hit-list, and a superlative collection of "mainstream" fiction it is, too. Cheers, Doc
Well, it seems our board has once again retreated into its former lassitude--of course, this may just be because it's a Saturday night ... Still, I *liked* having new messages pop up on the hour. Hm. How to stir the pot ... Alright: the HE stories that *affect* me the most; that pull at my guts more than any others, are, oddly enough, not my *favorites*. I speak of "A Prayer For No Man's Enemy" and "Lonelyache"; the former because, well, I'm Jewish and perhaps a bit more intense than is good for me (Right before puberty, some schmuck in a car yelled, "Kike!" at me; I chased that car for four blocks and jumped on the hood, kicking it and thumping the rear window; I still don't know how I got my little twelve-year-old legs to do that, nor why I didn't just flip the guy the bird and go on [for those who simply *must* know the end result of the chase, I jumped off the car at a traffic light, still growlling ferally]) and the latter (forgot that that whole thing was just a parenthetical pause, didn't you?) because it's just so damn _scary_--I mean, I've seen that creature myself some nights (metaphorically, that is). *** Hm. To further encourage discussion, I wonder if I'm the only one who think's Harlan's nonfiction to be overall superior to his fiction, excellent as that may be. Ah, well; I've rambled on much more than I han intended. See you all in the funny papers! (and yes, I AM writing that review ...)
FINDER: Forgot to ask, is that June 30th deadline for a certain contest being co-sponsored by Script magazine? If so, good luck. If not, you might want to check into it. -- Bully D.
PEGGY (aka Turbo Tongue? Great name): Welcome. Glad you unlurked. (is that like Klingons uncloaking?) And about the foot-in-mouth thing, don't give it another thought. It's gotten to the point now where I dab my toenails with chocolate syrup every morning so at least the inevitable will taste good. Keep posting; the more input we'all gets here, the better. -- Billy D.
How does everyone know to say exactly what I need (not _want_) to hear? Doc: you are a savior. You can always bring me out of these down-things, thanks. Oh, and I saw what you threw at me there, with that line. See what I meant when I said that Marga story was real personal? Peg: Nice to meet you. Foot-in-Mouth? Don't be afraid of that. Just go back to the latest archives, and the stuff here, and you'll see some real foot-in-mouth by Yours Truly. You know that one song, "You Learn"? I try and go with that. You say you never met HE, but got stuff signed by him? Hell, that's closer than I've ever been. Until DragonCon, where (hopefully) I'll meet him personally, I've never gotton closer than a letter I sent to him, and I recieved a form letter in reply (Not that I expected anything more. And it was pretty painless besides, so for that I'm grateful). As for keeeping a long-standing topic, not for me. I've only been into Ellison since Jan. and I'd have even less to say on stuff than you! :) Besides, topics tend to take out our personal imput, I believe. I hate limiting myself or what I talk about. That's just me, tho. I'd just feel really restricted if our postings had to stay "strictly on topic".
Well, somebody musta sprayed me with "Lurk-no-More". Been watching the scene for probably a year now, but pretty much stayed outta sight for fear of major foot-in-mouth disease. I am not what one would call a literary critic, and my retention is pretty pitiful (making me a great person to tell jokes to, I never remember them till you get to the punch line...). Mostly, any input leaves only faintly glistening trails on my gray matter which can be seen at later date only when the light hits 'em juuuuuust riiiiiiight.
Which means that it's hard for me to comment on Ellison's work unless I got a copy in my hot (or cold, here in Alaska) little hands. Since I usually surf from work on my lunch hour - whenever I squeeze it in - my Ellisonia collection isn't around for handy reference. The way the conversation here jumps around there's just NO WAY little ol' me can keep up.
HE is my favorite writer, the only one I truly collect. I've enjoyed his material since my (long-gone) college days when a good friend passed me a collection. Hooked since. Still never had the pleasure to meet the man. No money when I lived in LA to hit the conventions. Now it's no time (or time at the wrong time) to flee from the cold north. However, he's been kind enough to sign some items I've purchased from Dangerous Visions. [Ask for Bill, he's a sweetie!].
Which is why I was just DE-lited to see a chat room set up. I don't usually frequent them, but I was hoping this tongue-twistin' group might be interested in setting a particular topic or story to discuss at a particular time. That way I might be able to read up ahead of time and then make meaningful discussion on the subject. Unfortunately, I was defeated by evil internet explorer, which foiled my every attempt to make the chat room work this afternoon. I'll try at home tonight, maybe I'll get better results....
Well, it's been nice to meet you. I tend not to post from work - we have overactive net/email nazis with not enough other problems to solve (I guess), but am hoping to get some more time at home (on a new schedule that gives me more time off). I can usually be lured out by good strong coffee (Mocha Sanani is a fave, so's Sumatra) or a good glass of wine, and anything resembling dessert!
Till next time (if I haven't already worn your eyes out....) - Peg
NICOLE> Almost forgot: CURRENT DEMONS is the title of the review/overview I did of MEMOS FROM PURGATORY. It's on the reviews page. You think the crap I spew *here* is something,... ("Down, Lobo! Down, I say! Jesus, this thing is worse than my *id*...!")
NICOLE> Kid, you'll never find out anything if you don't stop talking yourself out of it!! It's tough to do, but you have to put a lot of that negative shit from your past (the stuff where the nurturing adults in your life keep telling you, "You'll never amount to anything, you, you...*girl!*"). Don't foret, it: use it. Show 'em, kiddo. Other comments and suggestions I'll save for private e-mail. FINDER> I eagerly anticipate your reviews - if you need any inspiration, consider the gauntlet thrown. I stand before you (electronically speaking) with my thumbs lodged in my ears, doing the antler dance, and saying "Nanny-boo-boo!" BTW - "Doc POMPOUS?" Oy. G-8 and Op. 5? Wait'll I tell my pals Jack and Reggie about *this!*
NICOLE: Just so you know, I'll be away from my e-mail until Tuesday (off to NY for a gathering of old friends), so if you don't hear from me on your stuff, it's not a negative; it's simply a "not home yet". And you should ease up on yourself - from your posts, I can already hear a clear and distinct voice, which already puts you on a path that gives some writers fits. Patience. With time and practice will come what you seek of yourself. Have a good weekend! (and yes, I'm FINALLY getting underway...)
Doc, what's this "Current Demons" thing? Something you wrote? I'd like to see it, maybe. Dunno. Well, it's official. Switched my major over to journalism now, and if this doesn't work out I might as well off myself. I know I'm not as good as any of you, probably not going to be as good ever, and certainly never as good as HE, but I need to know if I even have some kind of potential, or if I'd be better off working in some fast food restraunt and never publishing a word. Sorry. Babbling again. Finder, I'll send you some of my stuff. Right now, in fact, and be brutally honest as to what you think of it.
DOC: Sorry - you mistake my self-effacement for surrender; you've merely raised the bar a little higher than I know for sure I can jump. It's good for me to be nudged (or shoved, chased, driven by fire and flood and large, hulking doberman - depends on the day, y'know) from my comfort zone, especially in an area where I know I have some natural ability and a vast potential for growth. And believe me, I'm far too opinionated to not flex it, given the opportunity. And I am writing - just not my review. Yet. Soon. Word as bond. (BTW, the pen is cross because I hold it too tightly; I blame the nuns who taught at my school...Palmer Method indeed...) As for sounding pompous, pffft. No malice of fore-thought detected, no worry. (Hmm..Doc Pompous...it lacks the punch of, say, Doc Savage, but it certainly has more character than, say, G-8 or Operator #5...)
Boy, does *that* sound pompous! "Back, Lobo, back!" (SOUND CUE: whip cracking, assorted growls) - There, the ego is safely back in its cage. Thanks again for the kind words, but honestly, do a review or three. Be honest, tell where the stories touch you personally, why and how they work (or don't) for *you*. Maybe things I say in the reviews are common to others, but every damn word of 'em were written from *my* typewriter. 'Bye again. Doc
FINDER:> I am all goose-pimply gratification. Thank you very, very much for your kind praise. But. If it means anything to you at all, pick your damned pen back up and write a review. Write it. Write. Fu Manchu commands. Maybe your pen wouldn't be cross, if you used it more. Really, as far as I know, I am not the official Webderland reviewer - just like here on the Comments Bored, we need more voices. And if my work is scaring anyone else out of doing reviews, I'm gonna be really upset. Because, among other reasons, Rick is gonna be really upset at everyone bowing out of reviews they'd signed up for. I'm set to have a go at LOVE AIN'T NOTHING BUT SEX MISSPELLED, but that might be my last venture into Webderland criticism - I need time for my other projects (unless someone knows of a magazine that excepts partial manuscripts; the ROGUE thing, below, doesn't count). Please, Finder and anyone else who wants a go at Harlan's collections: do it, do the deal, if nothing else it'll be a good critical exercise. Again, though, Finder, thanks for the feedback. So far, it's all I've heard about it on the Bored, apart from "nice!" Cheers, Doc
The random 1's, 2's and 3's in the previous post were punctuation - once. Don't try this at home - I'm a professional computer illiterate...
With a spare moment between being a corporate tool and a doting, road-tripping older brother (and before sneaking back up the highway yet again - it isn¹t the years, as Indiana Jones said, it¹s the mileage), I pop in to find I missed the conversational boom. If it wasn¹t for bad timing...DOC - I cast aside my cross pen and bow in awe to a true wordsmith; ³Current Demons², to me, is THAT good, a reality-checking heart punch that shook me. Deeply. And I want to write a review? Yeah. Right. I¹m looking forward to your others, betwixt stretches of HE, Joseph Campbell, Charles Beaumont, and the elusive third act of a screenplay with a June 30 deadline - to every thing, there is a season... SUE - I¹d stop by and visit in the chat room, but when I tried to enter, AOL gave me a sideways glance and called me a rude name before saying ³hit the bricks, pal²- as acronyms go, AOL should stand for ³Access Only if Lucky² if it doesn¹t already...BARNEY - I haven¹t forgotten the previously promised tales; my life has just been a rollicking game of SimNuthouse (V 3.0) the last couple weeks. But I am putting fingers to keyboard, shoulder to wheel, nose to grindstone...jeez, no wonder I ache...and by the by, Barney, what¹s the possibility of getting a dub of your audio for that particular I-CON panel? I ask because of a certain personal involvement in the rather bizarre proceedings of that session...NICOLE - I won¹t forget you on distro when I (finally) have tales for Barney; in the meantime, if you¹d like to add yet another objective reader to your mailing list, feel free to drop me an e-mail... ALL - it¹s off to the highway for me, with Miles, Monk, Bird and ŒTrane along for the ride, seeking Erato¹s counsel and sway (it¹ll be Melpomene in the end - it's ALWAYS Melpomene - but a guy can dream, right?); have yourselves a long, laughing weekend, and I¹ll catch you on the fly...Finder
Regarding "How to Talk Dirty and Influence People" a couple of messages down...........
I had occasion to talk to Harlan about this last year. He immediately denied having anything to do with the book. Although he did allow that he liked the book and if somebody thought he wrote it, well, no skin off his nose. He mentioned the Lenny Bruce appendix piece and some letters as what might have caused this rumor to be floated. He also mentioned the other contributing factor was Rogue magazine. They used to publish Lenny Bruce's humor column while Harlan was editor. Harlan told me, in many cases Lenny would give him a bit or some notes or even napkins with just a few words to give Harlan the gist and it was Harlan's problem to make these into a presentable column. Depending on Lenny's circumstances from month to month during this time some ideas may have been more fleshed out than others. In any case, some genuine collaboration went into those columns. You heard it here first. By the way, I have some Lenny Bruce Fantasy label albums on red vinyl dating to the late 1950's that both refer to Lenny as a sick comic. Lenny would definitely have been on Harlan's personal radar by then.
Charlie (and others who were wondering): the story Ellison wrote while "in the window" at Dangerous Visions was about a 102 year old pregnant corpse (idea from Chris Carter, of course). Ellison was also inducted into the World Book of Records for being the only person to perform such a stunt as many times as he has.
Alex- I "think" it was Viking, not Surveyor, that landed on Mars in 1976. Charlie
SCOT: In reference to "How to Talk Dirty and Influence People", the book was originally serialized in Playboy in the early Sixties before being put in book form. It WAS, I'm pretty certain, written by Bruce--there are just too many personal experiences and bits that hadn't yet (at the time of writing) been performed in it. Perhaps you're thinking of the "Lenny Bruce Is Dead" appendix to "The Harlan Ellison Hornbook"? I can understand why you might think it related to Harlan, but HE hadn't really done much if any nonfiction by this time, so it ain't him. I find that many of the essayists I really like resemble one another to some extent: Lenny, Harlan, Bill Goldman, Eric Bogosian--of course, then there's Hunter S. Thompson, whose style is, perhaps, inpossible to duplicate for any length of time. ALL: A weird caveat strikes my mind: Have any of you noticed how prescient Harlan can be? In "The Sky Is Burning", written in 1958, he speaks of the first moon landing--in 1969(Of course, he also speaks of a Mars landing in '76--say, when exactly did Surveyor [I may be wrong on the Mars probe's name] touch down?)! Another premomintory note can be found in "Final Schtick", written in 1960: He speaks of the main character being labeled a "sick comic". I'm reasonably sure that this predates the Lenny Bruce _Time_ interview in which the first mention of "sick comics" appears. Granted, Lenny was doing clubs a lot around this time, but he hadn't really been labelled as yet. Can anyone think of any other moments of literary Nostradamussing HE has done?
SCOT> Er, um. Haven't seen you here before: welcome! Now, in answer to Question Numero Uno - **as if!!** Lenny Bruce needed a ghostwriter? Harlan would *do* that? After all the years of kvitching about not being able to "hit" Playboy? Oh, yes, by the way - if you look in there somewhere, it's mentioned that big chunks of the book turned up as shorter pieces in Playboy first. In fact, if I remember, the book was assembled after Lenny was dead. I agree, though, they have very similar styles. I would go so far as to theorize that Harlan caught Lenny's act while HE was living in NYC and was inspired by how honest and bold Bruce was,...blah-blah, etc. Ellison knows EVERYdamnbody, it's like that Kevin Bacon game. As for Question Numero Two-o: didn't see STARSHIP TROOPERS. Haven't even read the novel. I have to be in a certain mood for Heinlein, and I haven't been in the mood for that yet. Too late - must sleep - little men with high hats and whiskers riding bulls trying to take me to their realm,.......
Currently working off too much credit card debt in preparation for the DragonCom, so's to have a little money to blow on food, living quarters, etc. The days between now and the (I think) 200 mile drive to Atlanta seem way too far away, but I'm coping.
On another note: this is probably a silly question (or statement) (or something), but, um, like, did HE ghost Lenny Bruce's "How to Talk Dirty and Influence People"? It seems like I read it somewhere, in some essay or introduction, but time is scant, and I'm sure if this is so -- that HE did the job -- then someone here's got info on it. Thanks!
One more note, this one on in an "X-Files" mode of conspiratorial thinking, but did anyone see "Starship Troopers"? Yeah, don't get me started, I only saw it on video cause I could get it for free where I work (and so I could multiply the venomous comments I've been spewing about it for months now by actually viewing the damned thing) (and oh gosh did it hurt) (and I really wish I hadn't, but anyhows), but there's this guy in it, Casper Van Diehn's dad, that a pal o' mine pointed out looked a bit like a distant cousin of HE's. Remembering HE's comments on Verhoeven's "Robocop," I'm wondering if this is intentional on the part of Verhoeven, a bit of retaliation, maybe, seeing as how the poor guy gets killed when the ... um ... meteor ... um ... hits the .... I'm sorry, really. I've only had 20-30 minutes of sleep in the past two days, and I'm open to suggestions. Sorry. Any comments, answers, etc. are appreciated.
Sue - Neat jacket. What's that on the back, a bat? Charlie - I heard that Chris Carter, X-Files honcho, gave Unca Harlan a story idea that he then wrote up in the bookstore window. I don't know anything about the story itself, though. Dammit, why isn't HE coming to GenCon? Plenty more SF geeks for your convention buck, I'd wager. -Mitch-
I saw the jacket!! Very awesome. Well, at least I can recognize you when I see you. And Charlie, just so you know no one is ignoring you, I don't know a thing about that. The only reasons I didn't go was 1) I live in Indianapolis and 2) classes. Really, I'm curious as well.
Did anyone attend last weekend's extravaganza at Dangerous Visions bookstore? Did anyone hear anything about the story HE wrote? Anything, anyone, hello out there...
Sue, the only manual labor they'll be doing is searching for me as I try to blend into the walls, which I am wont to do (although the jingling of my necklace might give me away...). Sounds like a neat jacket. I'll search for you on the pics, too. Or, perhaps I'll actually be out in the open for once, flirting with some cute college sophmore with long hair. That would be quite all right. On that Oral Interp exam I mentioned, I did get looks of horror and gasps. Unfortunately, I had to cut out quite a bit while I was up there. Only 5 min to get in the first part of the intro to "Angry Candy"! Sacrilige!!! ;)
**NICOLE** See you at DragonCon - I'll be half of the bikers there.. Can't miss me - Ancient Purple leather Jimi-Hendrix style Acid-Rock jacket with 2' fringe and brass studs.. (fringe used to longer, but it seems I loose some along the way on bike..) Check the Pics section here - there's one of me in the jacket.. **ALEX** Ask for me by name.. I'm calling myself Tess "Cat" Lipoca (aka "Amatuer, A. Sue") for the next little while... ;-) ... **BARNEY** and **RICK** See you there... And NO FAIR hiding..
oh, and, hey! Since you guys are "introducing" people to HE ("Number 9, Number 9.. You are next.").. Does that involve manual labor?? hee hee.. While Rick catches bullets, and Barney begs, I'll be the one pouting - 'cause No One wants to see *me*.. - shrug - Well, maybe I'll pout, when there isn't anything more fun to get into..
Well, great! I'll look for you guys then. I'll be the short teenager wearing two necklaces and standing apart from everyone else :)
Btw, I expect one of you to introduce me to Harlan at some point, being as I'm so shy and all. I can't wait for it! It sounds so fun!
NICOLE>> Rick Wyatt and I will be attending. In fact we will be fixtures in the lobby that you can throw quarters at. I'll be spinning plates, doing card tricks and running a shell game. SciFi geeks being the easiest marks in the world. Rick, as usual, will be catching bullets in his teeth, which is just one more reason why you don't want to meet him face to face. :-)
Wups! Sorry about that double posting. I wonder how I did THAT ...
Of course, normal names don't always suit the work, especially if it's science fiction or fantasy. Me, I had a problem making up modern "aliases" for the many gods in my novel. Examples: Dionysus=Dan Essex, Priapus=Bryan Post, et cetera. Oddly, I just noticed that the gods most likely not to have changed their names, most likely NOT to have insinuated themselves into modern society, are the non-Greeks. This may be because of the fact that a few Greek gods are at the heart of the book; it may be that the Greek mythology is generally what is taught children--wait. I know why this is. Though there have been a few places where I've been reaching: "Nike"="N. Kay Rebutian", or "Helois"="H. Lee Osterman", there's really no way to satisfactorily update names like Hotamitanio (Cheyenne god of the Dog or dog-soldier), Tezcatlipoca (Aztec god of blades), or Amaterasu (queen of the Japanese Shinto gods). Sorry to have rambled on like this; I just needed to decide if the book was too Greek-centric (I did a shitload of research for this book on almost every pantheon imaginable); I think I'm still okay.
Of course, normal names don't always suit the work, especially if it's science fiction or fantasy. Me, I had a problem making up modern "aliases" for the many gods in my novel. Examples: Dionysus=Dan Essex, Priapus=Bryan Post, et cetera. Oddly, I just noticed that the gods most likely not to have changed their names, most likely NOT to have insinuated themselves into modern society, are the non-Greeks. This may be because of the fact that a few Greek gods are at the heart of the book; it may be that the Greek mythology is generally what is taught children--wait. I know why this is. Though there have been a few places where I've been reaching: "Nike"="N. Kay Rebutian", or "Helois"="H. Lee Osterman", there's really no way to satisfactorily update names like Hotamitanio (Cheyenne god of the Dog or dog-soldier), Tezcatlipoca (Aztec god of blades), or Amaterasu (queen of the Japanese Shinto gods). Sorry to have rambled on like this; I just needed to decide if the book was too Greek-centric (I did a shitload of research for this book on every pantheon imaginable); I think I'm still okay.
Normal names, please. And I will try your suggestions. And I heard of that porno name thing, but it was a pet's name plus your mother's maiden name, so you got some real interesting things there. Just normal, semi-pronouncable names. BTW, while I'm typing, who's probably going to go to DragonCon this year? I'd like to be able to see someone I know there, and I would really like to meet some of you face-to-face. My parents offered to pay for the whole thing, lucky me. Just for my own personal curiousity.
Nicole - Character names: are you looking for something appropriate (i.e. Nick Gumshoe, private eye), or just a reasonable name? If the latter, my suggestion is to cheat. Flip thru the white pages, and invest in a baby-naming book. As for that porn star naming trick, I had no idea there were streets called Kleevage Ave or Whoppers Drive. BTW, I'm also looking forward to 'Fear & Loathing'. Hunter Thompson + Johnny Depp + Terry Gilliam = gottaseeit. -Mitch-
Barney, some odd serendipity: I, having just gone through most of my Ellisonia (ending with Edgeworks 1), have just decided to dip into the Gonzo Papers myself. I'm not sure whether I want to start with "Songs of the Doomed" or "The Great Shark Hunt"--probably the former. I think I need a little hotwire prong to push me toward doing some of my own literary spittle. I need to write the review, but the fevered-ego capitalist buried deeper inside me than conscience in Ed Meese insists that I finish my novel and sell the blasted thing. Fame! Yes, F*A*M*E! I desperately NEED the buzz I would get from being told, "I'm sorry, Mr. um ... Berman? Dave's going to have to bump you tonight; the Stupid Human Tricks ran long. We could have you in again sometime after Sweeps Week, though ..." I do so need to be told my importance in the world by mealy-mouthed corporate stooges! Cazart! The cathode rays call to me! I must resolve to join in their high resolution! .............. Er, well. Ahem. Perhaps I _don't_ really need to reacquaint myself with Hunter just yet ...
DOC!! >> probably a psuedonym for one of James Carville's Wild Turkey powered audioanimatronic fixers. Hah! What makes you think exposure to THREE Hunter S. Thompson bios in ONE WEEK [!!] Good Christ, could possibly have any effect on me. Your just feeling the BIG FEAR. And who could blame you after watching our country turned into the land of NO FUN. Jean E. Carroll was right! A savage battle has been waged between greedhead Lizards on the Right and Ambitious Sewer Rats on the Left to Seize Control and we are the poor drive by bastards left standing here weeping and gnashing our teeth. Nixon's Dead and his loss is incalculable. It's like a nail in the eye. WHO WILL WE BEAT NOW like a redheaded step-child? Not Me. Only a savage flaming death in a swiftly moving vehicle or a truly Great Terry Gilliam Movie can save us now. Remember - the difference between a good idea and a bad idea is mostly how fast you can run. And Doc? I don't know what your talking about. Take that you twitching mojo wire.........
A IHNMAIMS musical, eh? Well, only if I get to write the songs. Lyrics only. I did write a little thing that sort of fits itself to the characters. Just got the idea, worked it out on paper then the piano, hey, IHM..all that stuff, is too good NOT to. It passes, but doesn't quite fly. Needs some meter work...but I digress. As for finals, got 'em started today and I think I aced them. Dante? Piece of cake. Kafka? Easy. "The Stranger"? Loved it, did a great essay. "The Tempast"? Easy reading, easy writing about. Doc: what about those writing samples I sent you? Not to kvetch (thanks again for explaining that Barney. I love that word!!), but I would at least like a status report. And I want to hear the rest of that time you met Harlan! Come on, I've waited long enough. :) I want details on his house. It sounds so awesome! Same for anyone else with a HE story. I love reading those things! Speaking of status reports, have all save one chapter read. Would have finished it last night, but mom was getting on me about being on the web too late. Well, 11:40 at night and I have a friend to pick up at 7:00 plus finals...well, at least I get out early these days. I can't wait to give my final speech in Oral Interp tomorrow!! Topic: death. I got two pieces of Ellison picked out, one from "Angry Candy" and another from "Slippage". I go to a Catholic school, BTW, and I can't wait to see how many of my classmates gasp when I read it off. (Myself: not Catholic, not Christian, not even monotheistic. Wiccan. Nature religion. School was _not_ my choice. Just a little note for you there.) I'm expecting to hear a few Hail Marys afterward as I walk out that door, grinning.
NICOLE-You want last names for your characters. I caught this little tidbit last night watching Warren Beatty, who said that porno stars get their stage names using their middle name as their first name and using the street name where they grew up as their last name. Is that a help? Not that your characters are porno stars, but all this talk about wrestling lately... As for the book, check out your local B&N for the IHNMIMS guide in the bargain bins. Also, speaking about HE's introduction in the guide, he does talk about earning money for what he does, which I think is appropriate for the discussion that's been going on. HE said that he's not totally motivated by the dangling dollar, but by the fact that something is a challenge to him or something he hasn't done before. Hmmm, how about the IMNMIMS musical.
A.J.> obnoxious "again?" >;^} Kidding - honest. By the way, if you like, I'd be interested to see some of your work. And I most assuredly appreciate the comments about the quality of the reviews. Unless you *weren't* including mine,...but that's just *silly* isn't it? ISN'T it? BARNEY> Please - oh, PLEASE, do not challenge me to an immaturity contest. I have a long list of references, including but not limited to my mother, my therapist, former roommates, Sue Luesse, Rick Wyatt, DTS and Harlan J. Ellison. If you force me, I'll cry - please do not t'row me in dat br'ar-patch! And you are REALLY looking forward to the coming release of "Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas," aren'tcha, fellah? SUE> I got's a feeling I been had - and not in a romantic way, either..."Uodd2" - in the words of Oliver Hardy, "Mmmph!" Can we nix this dwarf-business now? Please? Guys! I'm tellin'!
From domestic abuse to dwarf wrestling; only on this board ... So; what other contentious argument can be started on the board? If it has the same result as the last time (swelling the board's output), I'll be obnoxious again--should anyone wish. :Þ ***Nicole: Don't apologize for not reading my stuff yet; you've _work_ to do--besides, you sent two short, evocative excerpts of a few paragraphs each; I sent you the equivalent of _twelve_ single-spaced pages!!! Take your time. Rather, do well on your finals, enjoy life, and take your time. Me, I'm sweating over the fact that while I'm having trouble writing the last few chapters of my novel, the ideas for the "Angry Candy" review are coming at me like crazy. Ah, well; I should finish that within a month at most--hey! Do you think that these might engender enough literary heft that I could use it on a query letter? I doubt it, but the examples I've seen have been thesis-worthy--even publication-worthy!
Vaseline and chic peas, eh? A bit too unorthodox for me, but, then again, might be interesting to watch. I'll be cheering from the sidelines. Charlie: you actually _found_ that hintbook? I've been searching for it for the longest time, and I do have the game. Finished it, by the way, with the help of an online guide and got perfect endings for everyone but Ellen. I reccomend you get the game, but it is quite a challange to find. Saw mine lying all alone, forgotton, on a bottom shelf in Best Buy, the plastic cover all torn. But I was so excited to see the thing that I grabbed it right then and there. Great game. Wonderful game. A little gruesome (I still turn off the sound and cover my eyes when Gorrister pulls that switch near the animal cages. That is just plain -sick-) but wonderfully done, especially Nimdock in the concentration camp. But, once again, as is my way, I digress. EW5? I can't even afford the other four yet!! ::buries her face in her hands and sighs:: BTW, doing my final in Oral Interp on the subject of death, and finding so much material in my 3-book Ellison collection that my head is spinning! :) Alex- so sorry I didn't get around to reading your stuff till now. You know how it is, four finals this week, working. You have no idea how bad I feel. Really. Speaking of writing and such, I'm having trouble thinking up names for my characters, especially last names. Any tips? And Doc, scrap that latest thing I sent you, the one with the character named Sam. It's flawed. Badly. Conflicting info, excessive wording, the works. I'll send you a working version in about 4 days, okay? Oh, and if someone could tell me how that durn chat room works? I thought I had quite a bit of computer know-how, but... ::scratches her head in puzzlement:: I think I'll stick to the boards for now, thank you.
DANG!! **BARNEY**?? YOU want ME to be YOUR character witness?? LOL!! _I_ use YOU for that... Think anyone will get wise to this scheme?? *giggle* And somehow, I _really_ doubt that anyone would think Old HERC #1 is 'demeaning' HE.. More likely to be lovingly hand-polishing a button that fell off HE's shirt on the "Autograph" Table at some forgotten convention in 1967 (an incident which left several mortally wounded FanBoys behind in the scuffle to "bag" the treasure- which is only out of it's glass case home on a pedastle for the cleaning).. **DOC** Uodd2 is that Great New VRML/3D Video/Stereo/RealTime/CrossPlatform Software that's supposed to let me see the Man Beneath The Mexican Wrestling Mask in Convention Bloodsports.. So far, it hasn't done much - you and Barney weren't even *wearing* masks.. Sheesh! Another $19.95 (plus shipping and handling) gone to waste.. BUT WAIT!! Who's that I'd-Rather-Be-Dwarf-Beating maniac with a chair?? ..*click* Roar of crowd.. *click* Filter On.. It's DTS!! Funny, he doesn't LOOK like a Dorman under the mask.. *shrug* Does look like a Critic, though.. Bet I can "take" him.. ;-) .. **RICK** The chat thing is a Really Cool Idea. Now WHEN is there going to be anyone besides *me* loitering there? And could Someone, Anyone PLEASE tell me how to Quit that darn chat program *without* logging off the internet??? grmmmbllle... I mean, it wasn't like I *MEANT* to loiter there.. GEEZ! Just when I was feeling a little 'Puter Literate, too... well.. I guess running through all the variations of "pedastle" should have been a hint.. Somehow, saying I'm a Creative Speller/Grammarian just doesnt have the same prestige as Creative Writer.. siggh.. Back to the real world - where I just "wheelie" away from oopsies.. :-) Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe
FYI- I was browing at local McBarnes & Noble and they had a 75% off lowest marked price table. Anyway, I found two copies of The Official Strategy Guide to HE"s IHNMIMS. I bought if for $2.50 (regularly $20) I don't have the game, but it had a new HE introduction, reprint of the story, and a HE interview in the back by JMS. Well worth the $ to throw up amongst the other HE books. Charlie
DOC!!!>>>> Now THAT'S the sort of reasoned, insightful, dispassionate discourse that they're looking for over at alt.fan.ellison. Poke somebody in the eye [doesn't much matter who but I could give you a list of starters] for me if you get over there. and DON'T MAKE ME start dissing you on that level be cause I have a daughter to supply me with UNLIMITED quantities of that sort of sarcasm. Aint that right honey? No,you shut up! TODD or was it DTS>> I was in West Virginia with Harlan for three days the week after he got the re-write request. He said he did it late fri. night and the middle of Sat. afternoon. But I didn't actually SEE him do the re-write so it may have been a polish. He did have me buy him whiteout which was sort of new at the time.... Ed Bryant may have been a witness on the CA. end come to think of it. OK, I think we've hit the trivial bottom on this now..... Where's my ibocain and blowgun.....get out of my hot tub g@ddamnit....who ate my dove bars....
Barney [shooting out the windows of his compound just to hear the sound]
BARNEY> Yes, yes, yes already. All *I* am saying is that, given Harlan's reportage of their editorial interaction, he might not taken the lady as seriously. Yeesh! You and your Campbell's Tomato Bisque. "Savage Dwarf" indeed - I know you are, but what am *I*?...I know you are, but what am *I*?...I know you are but what am *I*? (repeat ad infinitum, plus one.)
Can confirm the delay on EW5 and can also echo Barney's sentiments. As you'll see on the top of the page I've set up a Webderland chat room on our Menagerie chat server. I don't expect it to be populated very often but you might check from time to time and if you guys want to set a regular time to meet I'll try to make it. Great conversation going on here and I don't want to kill it so I'll step out of the way now...
EDGEWORKS VOLUME 5>>> Yes, the release was bumped 6-8 weeks to July. It only became officially "late" this week. Volume 6. is presently still scheduled for Oct./Nov. I guess I'll have to use my old editions as reference until then. Hello to Greg F. and Jarrett K. and everybody else who wants to bitch about this. This should be the worst thing that happens to you. Get a friggin' life. For those of you who don't read alt.fan. ellison, just ignore the above. My tone here is reserved for a [select] few. TODD>>> TAC #5 it is. Thanks for the info. That's going to make things a lot easier. and thanks for the assist Doc. I also experienced posting delays but it seems ok now.... SUE>>> I dragged you into this because your the only one on this list who has spent enough time with me to know how immersed I am in this stuff who might still be called upon as a character witness. The problem is trying to establish the right tone while defending your position in forums like this. Since I've spoken with Doc over the phone I wasn't too worried about being misunderstood. But if somebody just walked in they might get the wrong idea. So I thought I'd abuse your friendship in aid of my mission. What mission? Why, my mission to wrestle DOC>>> into a state of ARGUMENTATIVE SUBMISSION!! I'll chase him like wolves chasing a weasel across the frozen tundra. The Savage Dwarf will receive NO MERCY. No quarter will be asked or given. I"ll thumb wrestle him in a PIT FILLED WITH VASELINE AND CHIC PEAS! ***KAZART!!!!*** Hunter S. Thompson switch disengaged. I think he could have come up with something just as creepy but less personal but the fact remains that he chose not to. I think this speaks to my comment about writing to exorcise demons. I AGREE with you that Harlan would NOT have re-written the story if he couldn't make it a better story. One of my points was that this was a serendipitous confluence of both a story editors needs and Harlan's capacity to listen to a useful suggestion. People frequently characterize Harlan as this arrogant asshole who ONLY listens to his muse. But I have seen Harlan turn around and throw stuff away in a heartbeat for a better story. But it helps [in this case] if the person offering Harlan advice is standing there with 1.) a $3000.00 hammer and 2.) the trust of a magazine to make that person an editor and give her the power to wield the hammer. Let's just not pretend the hammer wasn't there is all I'm saying. Another way of saying it is - I don't think Harlan would have dragged himself over those coals as quickly for Shayol or Aboriginal SF and a fraction of the paycheck. I'm not doubting that his motives were pure, I'm only adding another dimension to the process. And speaking of process, well, that's the fun. I've gotta go pour more ether on the carpet now.....where's my "salt shaker", Keeriist! Look at the size of those bats! What bats? You'll see 'em soon enough.
Barney [in the bunker]
BARNEY> I appreciate your long association with Harlan; nevertheless, I sustain the contention that money is (as it should be) a great excuse for improving one's craft. If Harlan hadn't thought it would improve the story, he wouldn't have done it; furthermore, given his record of having a snappy imagination, couldn't he have come up with something just as creepy but less personal? SUE> I *still* don't know what a Uodd2 is. NICOLE> Thanks for the offer, but I think we can see each other's scars quite well enough as it is...(;} Cheers, Doc
I agree, Sue; 'Mind Fields' is mighty tempting. Besides the fact that I've been buying HE's work compulsively (largely because it's so hard to find), Yerka's paintings are pretty impressive. If the rest of you liked them, I heartily recommend the art calendars published by Mobius Int'l. They feature Giger, Yerka, Huss and lots of other fantastic(al) artists. As for 'Oi, Robot', the more you know about SF lit, the more you'll enjoy it. I've barely scratched the surface myself, and I still thought it was pretty damn funny. Worth $10 easy. -Mitch-
Barney--Well, I've sent two messages and now can't find either. Hope this is a temporary glitch, or perhaps I shouldn't bum off the local university system...but my PC's old, and tired. Geis is one of the oldest exponents of Ayn-Randian-sparked right wing libertarianism, as opposed to, say, Paul Goodman-sparked leftist libertarianism, in sf fandom, and at the risk of repeating my vanished message, one or another of the dealers with ads in F&SF, LOCUS, etc, can probably put an ALIEN CRITIC (aka TAC) #5 in your hands w/o much difficulty.
YIKES!! If only I'da knowed that can-opener was gonna lead to so many worms let out... Holy Squirmies, Batman!! **NICOLE** It was never my intention to innitiate conflict - just to present a different point of view in response to Alex.. Which you grasped immediately.. So no appology accepted, because none was ever needed. It's GOOD to react - BETTER to react passionately - as long as the first reaction doesn't close the mind to other possibilities. **Barney** Not sure _why_ you threw me that curve ball - but what the heck.. ;-) .. You know good and darn well, I have taking my share of flaming for flatly stating the obvious: "art" and "business" (i.e. the $$$$) are so thoroughly intertwined it is unrealistic to attempt to separate them. Any artist who wants 'Professional Status'IS, by definition, part of the Business (getting $$ for their art) - and "marketability" is a major criteria in deciding what they do, how they do it, and when they do it. If the work turns out *not* to be immediately marketable, it does not prove the artist does "art for art's sake" - it just means the artist is willing to hold out for better terms in the business. By all means, follow the $ trail, Barney - it will pretty much lead you through a Professional Anythings' career.. **ALL** It has struck me for some time that purveyors of literary talents (their own, and others) talk out of both sides of their mouth. Aspiring writers are told to "write what you know" (ie - based on personal life experiences) - while readers are admonished for thinking there is any element of biographical material in a writers fiction.. ?!?.. Aspiring writers are told to buy books that tell them how to write, research the intended market, given guidelines to follow by editors, and rewarded with publication for their compliance - but readers are to assume business plays no role in what is available for them.. ?!?.. I know, I know, you are all *artists* with *artistic rights*.. That are different from other rights, like say, ohhhh.. the rights of a farmer to what he grows.. Yeah, yeah... I don't *understand*.. And that is NOT because I am an inferior intellect, have inferior sensitivities, or inferior experience - it's because it Doesn't Make Sense. sigghhh... I can feel my fanny warming up already...
Hello, Nicole. The incidence of abuse-survivors writing on an Ellison-oriented board might not be too surprising, when you consider the appeal of fantastic literature to those who feel alienated from the larger society (as the abused often do), and particularly when you consider the often suppressed rage that such survivors carry with them--likely to be drawn to any artist who handles themes of rage, abuse and revenge as frequently and as well as Ellison does. Andrew Vacchs, for example, tends to be heavy-handed, writing well-meant but nonetheless DOC SAVAGEsque fantasies of supermen versus evil abusers. Ellison, with no less emotion and more empathy, brings out the gray scales. Keep writing and submitting, btw...don't let yourself be diverted, stymied, or lazy, like certain people writing this note (one published article, one kill-fee'd article last year).
It's always nice to come back to the board, see it drenched with serious debate and important arguments that hide under the shrowd of uselessness. Now, to throw my two cents in (and I apologize before hand if I insult any of you... well, no, actually, I don't give a fuck):
Anyone know when Edgeworks 5 comes out? It's running pretty late and for some reason Amazon.com says it's scheduled for July.
Thanks. Gee... I hope I didn'y start another debate.
Barney--Doc's got it, "TAC" refers to THE ALIEN CRITIC...and while I do have a copy, it's buried in the vaults in Fairfax Station, VA, if my storage unit hasn't yet been foreclosed, burned, or stolen. Check with the dealers who advertise in F&SF, LOCUS, SF REVIEW, etc--somebody's going to have #5, with a good article by Fritz Leiber in it, as well. And, yes, I failed to mention that Richard Geis is also one of the longest-running exponents of right-wing (not completely, but initially, Ayn Rand-inspired) libertarianism. (TAC #5 has one of Tim Kirk's illustrations on the cover, as well...he's one of the people who vie with Geis for the Hugo record, Ellison [of course] another.) Were you visiting Ellison at the time of the story's revision (at Robie McCauley's request)?
DOC>> I appreciate what your saying but I have to defend myself here. First of all, it is never my intention to demean Harlan. In fact, I just got done defending Harlan against some character assassination over on alt.fan a couple of days ago. Lately, I've tried to be very careful about when I chime in on these matters. But the things I mentioned were witnessed firsthand. Harlan did a major re-write of that story the weekend I first met him. It was not something he wanted to do and he told me then and repeated on one other occasion [I pay more attention to things Harlan says twice over a period of years than I do to things he says only once - sometimes he says things just to see the look on your face] that it was the payday ($3000.00 in 1978) that made him even consider going into that dark hole for a chunk of fiction. He read the "new version" of the story that same evening, and of the 4 dozen or so readings I've seen over the years, it was the best, and the scariest reading I've ever seen him do. He didn't even look at the new pages because they were so fresh in his mind. When he was done that audience was terrified.
The editor is dead now so I can't verify the details from her end, but I have no reason to doubt the veracity of what was said to me on that weekend.
About $money$ Sure Harlan writes for himself and he writes to exorcise demons and he writes to test his abilitie and he writes for craft and art and Art and all that stuff. But he also writes for money. To pretend that Harlan doesn't do things for money is to miss at least part of the story. Remember, I'm looking for biographical details. This stuff used to embarass the bejeezus out of me. But years ago a famous writer said to me that if I was going to seek out this kind of information to NOT be afraid to follow the money and he was right. Money has everything to do with the direction the market takes and the direction most writers take. Everything Rick Wyatt complains about in his new rant is a direct result of where the money goes. If I say Harlan rewrote a story for money (ie. more money] it's only because I saw him do it and he told me that's why he originally did it. What makes the story worth telling isn't the money, it's that, miraculously, it made it a better story. According to Harlan and Playboy. Try reading it without that scene. It's not as creepy. Saying she scares the shit out of him and knowing why she scares the shit out of him are to diffent animals. I see I've strayed off the money tangent. Please just understand that from a biographical point of view where a story appeared and how much an author was paid for it are real issues not abstract concepts. Some of the most telling stories about writers and other artists and their character revolve around issues of money. Money affects Harlan just as much as affects everybody else on this list. That's part of the story of any artist. Half of the letters between Maxwell Perkins and Hemingway are about money. They are still great letters that explain a lot without dimishing one wit the worth of "Hills Like White Elephants" etc. Look at the money issues in "Amadeus" or "Cobb". Saying that Harlan does things for money doesn't insult Halan. It's what Harlan is, and isn't willing to do for money that help to define him in our eyes. Harlan could have totally whored himself out to TV back in the sixties but he didn't. That's part of the story. It's not the whole story but it's not something that can't be ignored. To be really blunt, money has as much to do with art as sex does with where babies come from. We just don't always want to watch. SUE*** Hey Sue, would I demean Harlan? C'mon?
Personally, I find it frightening that so many of us have been abused. Doc- this is so strange...my stepfather too...and I will have to get "Shatterday". A point of contact? Well, why not? I think I could trust the guy enough to open up like that. After all, I trust the rest of you, obviously. :) As for not having children, I see your point completely. That is the same reason I refuse to have any children. That, and my father was an alcoholic, and I have (possibly genetic) depression, which would be a terrible thing to inherit. Besides, I do have a hand in abuse- myself. (remember that part about Marga and the razor blade? Like that. Only with my fingernails.) If we meet, remind me and I'll show you the scars. And it's true. The abuse cycle is hard to break out of. I struggle not to scratch myself whenever I get angry, and it's tough. As for everyone else, I already e-mailed you or don't have anything to tell you. And thanks for all your support for me. It means so much. Remember, for good or bane, it all comes back times three. Everything.
"...as [I] support and understand *him*?" Godfrey Daniel, and egad - I've been *outed*! Hoist on my own...well, never mind what I've been hoist on. I salute your perseptivity, A.J., and thank you for the kind, understanding, non-condemning words. So you see, parenting might indeed be a bit outside my sphere. Nevertheless, I'm sure it would be a nerve-wracking experience - on the other hand, it's one of thjose already, given some of the shennanigans some of my parent friends have related. Still, it'll be awhile if it ever happens. I won't get a dog until I have a yard for it; would I consider doing less for the environment of a child? As for being out-bred by the brainless, I think it behooves us to do the work where we can by getting the Word around: I shrank from Dostoyevsky, until Harlan so heartily recommended him. I discovered Django Rheinhardt, Gerald Kersh, Cornell Woolrich, Robert Cormier, even gave Kate Wilhelm a second glance (couldn't hook into SWEET, SWEET POISON, but got taken away by THE DARK DOOR). I owe a lot to an open mind, as well as HE's recommendations, and I think we have a duty to spread that stuff around. Enough. But before I go, some of you might want to check out www.otr.com and see (well, hear) what all the fuss HE's made about Old Time Radio is about. Lots of links to RealAudio shows of The Shadow, Captain Midnight, Terry and the Pirates, Hop Harrigan -- great stuff!! Cheers, Doc
My, haven't I unleashed a veritable shitstorm here on our lovely board! *DOC*You may think these comments a bit facile, but I'm of a mind that you shouldn't worry about having children; obviously (to me, at least), you KNOW the pain that the generational cycle of abuse can visit upon a person. Because of this, I would think that you'd go out of your way to make sure that your kids wouldn't suffer the way you and your step-father did, simply because you _recognize the pattern of abuse begtting abuse. From all the posts of yours I've read, I think you a most intelligent, sensitive person and think that you would make an outstanding parent--besides, it's something of our duty to bring thinking people into this world; the ignorant masses, I'm afraid, are outbreeding us by a large margin. I really hope you find that perfect (or maybe just _right_) person from whom you will NOT shrink; who will understand and support you even as you support and understand him. Just as an example, my father was abused in the orphanage in which he resided before being taken in by the two people he will always think of as his parents--the best foster parents a kid could ever hope for--and I can only remember one time when he hit me. That was a punishment well deserved; one report period, I failed English--always my best subject--simply because the teacher and I had a mean hate-on going. For this, I received the only spanking I can remember in my life. It was not an easy thing for my father to do, but it was something he needed to do--I needed to understand that my way might not always be the right way, and that, sometimes, even when it WAS right, it was better to play by the other person's rules. Speeches and "go to your room" punishments simply had not worked--it took that little bit of corporal punishment to get that through my brain--which I've always suspected is located somewhere in my posterior. :) This isn't to say that I'll hit my (future) kids--I can't think of a situation where it would be warranted. Bad does NOT always make for more bad.
Hmmmmm. Touchy subject rears its ugly head, here at the good ol' non-abrasive Webderland Comments Board. Domestic abuse. ALEX> you forget to mention the old axiom that "abuse breeds abuse." That's an even more terrifying aspect of it, for me. I have issues - I suffered through many fascinating episodes at the hands of my step-father, who was, in his youth, actually hospitalized by his own father. It's kept me out of relationships; I tremble at the notion of having children of my own, for fear that I will visit such poisonous wickedness on my own loved-ones. It is a vile, corrosive thread,...well, if you want to hear a lecture or juicy details, see me after class (or e-mail me). BARNEY> I have to take issue with your remark about Harlan and the Playboy cash question: I honestly believe that Harlan has always (particularly at a time in his career when he could sort of do as he pleased) been far more concerned with his responsibilities to the work, his own integrity as a story-teller. The money thing is nice, but regarding this story, the shattering, personal events involved and the late lady who drove him to those dark places, to even imply that cash was the factor is to demeen all. NICOLE> If you read the story, the essay that preceeds it and "All the Lies That Are My Life" (which, I believe, are all in SHATTERDAY), you'll see what we're getting at. And if you consider the rest of his body of work, his attitude about that sort of thing and all the action he has undertaken on behalf of equal rights, and so on, I think you'll find that this is an isolated, albeit pivotal incident. But a demon with which he continues to wrestle, on paper, nevertheless. I commend you for tackling such things in your own work. It might make for a point of contact for you and Harlan, by the way. Never feel you have to censor yourself here, either. BARNEY> I think TAC refers to "The Alien Critic." SUE> What the hell is Uodd2? If *I* knew, maybe then I could enlighten you; maybe. Cheers, Doc
There's a quote I'm desperately trying to remember (going to the Bartlett's Quotations website is, to me, a cheat and a crutch), which says something along the lines of, "Art needs no excuse." This is going through my head as I see Nicole berating herself for saying what she felt. NEVER apologize when it's not warranted! That makes you your own victim. I've known quite a few friends who've suffered domestic/abuse, be it sexual, physical, or verbal. All too easily, such people make a habit through the rest of their lives of making themselves victims--you've heard of "suicide by cop"? I call this trait "self-abuse by spouse", and it has always been the thing that has most enraged me when I see intelligent people killing their own self-esteem or letting others do it for them. I realize that I've gone off into Rantville here, but I've had to help put together far too many broken people and the thought that I, Defender of All That's Good and Right, cannot singlehandedly banish this sends me into a killer rage. So I'm arrogant; sue me. I'm one of the few who can be at once both arrogant and caring. Sometimes I feel that I care too much, but I have to dismiss that; to care any less would be a betrayal of my own self and those around me. Sorry, rant over. Be good to each other, everyone--and be good to _yourself_.
Thanks man. Thanks. I just felt I had to say that, you know? And I was mistaken, I admit. And I lied. Yes, I do use domestic violence often in my manuscripts, and I have experienced it before, so I can sympahtize with Harlan about how hard it is to write/talk about it. It's just not a pleasent topic to associate with someone I admire as much as I do Harlan. Gut feeling, gut reaction is all I can say on the subject. In fact, for me, it makes me feel better to talk about it through fiction, like freeing myself from a burden. Sort of a freedom from my forced silence, Giving a piece of myself to my readers. Trying for a little understanding and repentance. Writing is self-therapy for me, and I still have a lot of stuff to work out over it. In case you're wondering why I'm babbling like this, this just may be how Harlan feels, one writer to another, but then again, I can't assume too much. I don't really know and besides I'll be going off to college and I won't have to ever live with that again. Still, hurts to hear about him doing stuff like that. But I can accept it. I can deal with it. I can even understand it to the extent that I am capable of. Y'know, I feel much better now. Much. I have found a cheaper alternative to therapy!! :)
TODD >>> You Da Man!!!! I did a shitload of searches and research and with the exception of a couple of uberfan references wasn't able to find ANY of that stuff. I found one place on the met to sort of contact him directly but it was nested in with so much super right wing "build your compound and stock up on the guns" crap that it kind of put me off. Do you have a copy of that DV review? Does TAC stand for something. I have old zines to trade or money for photocopies.... What started this was I'm trying to research the whole Sex Gang/Nightstand/Taboo/Essex House thread and it's interesting as hell but nobody kept this stuff or likes to talk about it. Please stay in touch and thanks for the help. Regards and best wishes - Barney
***NICOLE>
Don't berate yourself for your comments. If I were your age I would find it easier to convince myself that Harlan's fiction and his life were seperated by so wide a gulf. But sadly, the truth, in the words of Warren Zevon, "aint that pretty at all. I don't know if you have had the chance to read a story called "All the Birds Come Home To Roost" in Strange Wine but the slipper beating incident and a couple of other things were scenes from Harlan's first marriage to Charlotte. Unlike some other stories, where Harlan is quick to point up that this here is FICTION, Harlan has never tried to soft peddle or downplay how ugly the back half of this marriage was for him. The details in this story were very hard for Harlan to write about and were dragged out of him by a very perceptive editor. Perceptive in the sense that she realized what made this story a horror story and forced Harlan to get it on paper. Forced, in that Playboy is the mother of all paydays for short fiction. Harlan has said on a couple of occasions that he felt this editorial suggestion made this a better story. Anyway, back to Charlotte. Well, no, not tonight. It's mostly in the books if you look for it. Remember it was the 1950's, Honeymooners was a mindset, not just a sitcom. Harlan was in the Army. A bunch of moves and dislocations, even when Harlan was home, he needed to be writing and Charlotte had ways of interfering with that. They were both young and often apart. Harlan said she had affairs, hit on friends, and tells one story where he actually found her in bed once with someone else after coming home on leave. Not a happy marriage. Also, if you want to pick at the wound of domestic violence, Harlan used to get physically abused by his older/larger sister. I don't want to stand here as an apologist, but you have to remember that Harlan was born in 1934. His upbringing and background, his time, is removed from most of ours as Twain's was from Hemingway's or Wrong Way Corrigan's was from Neil Armstrong's. That he took a bad period of his life and turned it into art instead of a destructive pattern of continued abuse is quite an accomplishment. OK, maybe I am an apologist.
Been providing my brother with Ellisonia at regular intervals over the last couple of years, and he was compelled to call me up after finishing "A Boy and His Dog"--he was disturbed (effect intended), even more by the notion that this story had been filmed than by the story itself. But there's no two ways about it, a boy loves his dog...even if too many people have difficulty separating a narrative voice from the author's (I eventually had to correct my mother in her reference to "my" doing this or that in my published short story)...
Gay Talese certainly made no bones about Sinatra being a bully, to Ellison and to others (but particularly Ellison), and his entourage being sycophants of the purest water, in "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold." Like Miles Davis, Sinatra is one whose best work is best appreciated when considered apart from his persona and private life. Of course, as Keegan knows from BENEATH THE UNDERDOG (as much of it as we can believe), Charles Mingus was in the same boat, but at least he was too smart ever to listen to what sycophancy could ever coalesce around him.
Gay Talese certainly made no bones about Sinatra being a bully, to Ellison and to others (but particularly Ellison), and his entourage being sycophants of the purest water, in "Frank Sinatra Has a Cold." Like Miles Davis, Sinatra is one whose best work is best appreciated when considered apart from his persona and private life. Of course, as Keegan knows from BENEATH THE UNDERDOG (as much of it as we can believe), Charles Mingus was in the same boat, but at least he was too smart ever to listen to what sycophancy could ever coalesce around him.
Hiya Folks! Whole buncha facts--Richard Geis is a writer, who for his often intentionally controversial fannish writings (in such fanzines as SCIENCE FICTION REVIEW ((two incarnations)), THE ALIEN CRITIC, PSYCHOTIC, RICHARD E. GEIS, and THE GEIS LETTER, as well as in the prozine GALAXY in the 1970s) has won (I think still) the largest number of Hugo(e)s (SF Achievement Awards, the Worldcon Rockets) any one person has collected. His review of AGAIN, DANGEROUS VISIONS story by story throughout an early issue of TAC was very nearly the best anthology review I have ever read. He also wrote a lot of erotica/porn novels in the 1960s, tapered off in the '70s, did some suspense novels with Elton Elliott (as Richard Elliot or some such)in the 80s and is worth looking into. Ellison was a frequent contributor to the NEW YORK-magazine-like competitions F&SF started running in '71, which along with cartoons make up the mostly fun contents of OI, ROBOT.
Hiya Folks! Whole buncha facts--Richard Geis is a writer, who for his often intentionally controversial fannish writings (in such fanzines as SCIENCE FICTION REVIEW ((two incarnations)), THE ALIEN CRITIC, PSYCHOTIC, RICHARD E. GEIS, and THE GEIS LETTER, as well as in the prozine GALAXY in the 1970s) has won (I think still) the largest number of Hugo(e)s (SF Achievement Awards, the Worldcon Rockets) any one person has collected. His review of AGAIN, DANGEROUS VISIONS story by story throughout an early issue of TAC was very nearly the best anthology review I have ever read. He also wrote a lot of erotica/porn novels in the 1960s, tapered off in the '70s, did some suspense novels with Elton Elliott (as Richard Elliot or some such)in the 80s and is worth looking into. Ellison was a frequent contributor to the NEW YORK-magazine-like competitions F&SF started running in '71, which along with cartoons make up the mostly fun contents of OI, ROBOT.
You're right Sue. Stupid comment. Forget I said anything.
Uhhhh...**NICOLE**... "on a literary level"?? WHOA! Time Out.. Alex points out an underlying theme evident in much of Ellison's fiction, which is nowhere the focus of an Ellison work, and expresses an interest in seeing something in print from HE specificly adressing the issue (preferably as an essay, or non-fiction).. And from THAT, you assume Alex made improper assumptions?? That particular theme in HE works has not exactly gone unnoticed over the years, and has garnered HE some pretty heavy criticism for being misogenistic. *Because* it has not been treated specificly in HE's literature, and the terminology is so obviusly rooted in strong personal views, the conclusions drawn from speculation has acquired a patina of authenticity for those unable or unwilling to apply critical thinking. I happen to agree with Alex - I would !love! to read an Ellison treatment of Domestic Violence. It would certainly put an end to the speculation. And it would undoubtedly be a HECK of a work, too.. **ALEX** Did that answer your question? ... ;-) ... **MITCH** I'd love to jump in on the MindFields thread.. but there's a tangle.. I don't have it yet either.. But it's sounding a lot like I _should_ get it.. Sound that way to you, too? Seems to be a collection that generates strong feelings (love it AND hate it). **KEEGAN** ... :-( ... sending a cyber-*HUG* to comfort you.. Any guesstimates on how long before your New and Improved Home Page will dazzle us? **DOC** Just got the Uodd2 - I ordered it from the Home Shopping Network - boy is it COOL! And, uhh, what does it do again?
First of all, just because some of Harlan's stories involve hitting women, doesn't mean that he did or even could do it. I myself put domestic violence into quite a few of my stories, yet I have never had a part in it, so don't go assuming what a writer puts into his or her fiction actually happened in their lives. And, you know, this may be just me, I think you ARE reaching a bit. This is "fiction", for Athena's sake! This is not the man's autobiography. The writing might just arise from an intense disgust of the subject, or as a statement againt it to the public. Now, I'm saying this one writer defending another, not because I actually know the guy, but that's okay. This needs to stay on a literary level, anyway. Although there might be grains of truth in what he/myself/any good author writes, making such speculations is dangerous. That having been said, I personally sit on the side of disbelief until proven wrong.
God, I hate myself when I make typos--that's what comes from editing for three hours straight in the wee wee hours of the morning. What I meant to say was "the horror that he *could* hit a woman causes him."
All right; I've a bit of a poser. As I have always felt that HE's nonfiction work is equal--if not often superior--to his fiction, I find myself woolgathering over pieces I'd *like* to see Harlan write. Me, I'd like to hear abot the time he hit or *almost* hit a woman for whom he cared. Now, I assume that this actually happened at one time in his life, because the idea threads itself through a good number of his stories--"Night of Black Glass", "Rock God", "All the Birds Come Home to Roost", "Knox", the backstory written for the CD-Rom of "I Have No Mouth"--also, and I may be reaching here, but I see this personal violence implied in quite a few stories--"Neither Your Jenny Nor Mine", "Anywhere But Here, With Anyone But You", "Lonelyache", and quite a few others. *** Now, I get the feeling that either the hitting or the raising of the hand to a woman was so repugnant to HE that he has revisited it many times in his fiction--perhaps to get a more intense Sense Memory; perhaps to exorcise the pain that the thought that he *could* hit a woman. ***** Now, bear in mind I may well be talking out of my ass and that the experience in the Sex section of "The 3 Most Important Things In Life" is where HE gets this horror of smacking a wife/lover around. ************* Anyway, that's the story _I'd_ like to hear. How about everyone else?
Regarding the HARLAN ELLISON story writing and book signing appearance at Dangerous Visions: Ellison will be getting his story idea from Chris Carter, who will also present him with an official award/induction into the Guiness Book of Records for being the only person in the world to do such a stunt as many times as he has. Also, Dangerous Visions will sending a copy of the finished story to anyone who purchases (even by phone) $25.00 or more worth of books. (Thier phone number is 816-986-6963). Out here, DTS.
Hadta laugh: The Sinatra/Ellison confrontation in the poolroom came up on Niteline. The guy told it straight too---that Sinatra picked the fight. Funny! Still, I'm in mourning. The man meant a lot to many in my profession.
Has anyone here bought Oi, Robot, edited by Edward Ferman, through the F&SF magazine? What's the HE connection and is it worth the $10? Thanks, Charlie. P.S.Has anyone read The Troika (latest Philip K. Dick award winner)? If so, what'd ya think.
Couldn't agree more on "Susan" from MIND FIELDS. Between that and the "Dragon" story from SLIPPAGE, you have an interesting (but mind you not necessarily complete or accurate) window into HE and SE's relationship. It's one of two stories I would like to get online here someday. The second? "Paladin of the Lost Hour", because when I finished that story for the first time ten years ago I thought to my self "If I ever am able to do anything that perfect in my life, I will die a happy man".
Mitch: regarding MINDFIELDS: As far as I'm concerned, it's one of Ellison's best collections. The stories are in the short, sharp (Borgesian) vein that he tends toward of late. But that doesn't make them any less powerful. Given that there are 33 tales, it would be hard to pick favorites or "bests," but "The Creation of Water," "Twilight In the Cupboard," "Fever," "In the Oligocenskie Gardens," "To Each His Own," "Susan," "Darkness Falls On the River," and "Ellison Wonderland" are a handful that stand out in memory. As angry and passionate and challenging as any of the stories in ANGRY CANDY, SLIPPAGE or DEATHBIRD STORIES. Great stuff. ANd, of course, the paintings by Jacek Yerka make the cost of the book that much more of a bargain. My vote? Make haste and buy it! Now. Out here, DTS.
MITCH, IMHO (or IMNSHO), Mind Fields is worth the cost just for the illustrations alone. The quality of the Ellison pieces runs the gamut, from fair to great, with one particularly hilarious "telegram" about Dorothy of WizOfOz fame and a barn full of hay. I say "pieces" because they really strike me more as impressions than stories. When I think on the collection, it's always the artwork more than the writing I remember. The paintings are truly astounding. There is one story, "Susan," which though HE shit-raves up and down in the back of the book and elsewhere is not autobiographical, brings a tear to the eye if you know anything about Herr Harlan's life. It's firmly planted on my list of all-time favorites. -- Billy D.
What did y'all think of 'Mind Fields'? I've got a gift certificate burning a hole in my pocket, which I'm saving for that and Edgeworks V (July?!? Gaaaah!). Are Harlan's contributions full-fledged stories, or smaller bits, like he did in 'From A to Z in the Chocolate Alphabet'? Thanks for the feedback. -Mitch-
I just received my copy of Rabbit Hole #19, and it says that Harlan will be having a special "Masters of Fantasy" show in June on "The Channel Whose Name Shall Never Pass Harlan's Lips." Having never received this channel, I would like to know if anyone could possibly make a tape of this for me when it airs? Please respond via e-mail, maybe we can make a deal!
Charles Miller
n8741466@cc.wwu.edu
SUE: Klan'tathon!! Glad to see creative non-violence survives! DOC: Nice job on the Ellison Wonderland reviews! As with Sue's, I only skimmed, but dug what I saw in my Net drive by. I'm furiously finishing books I have part-way read. When I hit Ellison, I do not want to be distracted...... (finished Babs; now I'm almost at the end of Charles Mingus' autobiography. It ain't a pretty story....)
No prob Doc. Just thought it was horrid and you were afraid to tell me. Remind me never to doubt you again. And don't worry about sending me too much to read! When I hear that little "You got mail!" on my AOL, it just brightens my day (unless its some solicitation crap, but, as I am, once again I digress) Believe me, I know bad weeks. Had a horrible Sunday at work. Almost went insane. Hope you enjoy my next piece of work. (As a side note: Doc-stupid question on the end of my last E-Mail. Ignore it :))
Yumpin' Yimminy, what farschtuppter week! I think next time, I'll have the root canal instead. SUE> trying a U-turn on the Autobahn is likely to get you Bavarian Creamed. BILL> you are kind, you flatter me; any choices other than abacus or rosary? No beads on a mogen David. Or are you thinking of those strings of wooden score-keeping disks, found in all the classier, old-fashioned pool-halls? NICOLE> Sorry for the delay, kiddo, it's just been Nightmare City the past few days. I will have something for you by the end of this week; possibly by the time you read this, even. RICK> You're the ginchiest (ask your mom). YOIKS AND AWAY!! - Doc
I appreciate your clearing that up for me, Sue. BTW, thank you for the Beast review. I don't always pick up on the subtext, but you pointed it out nicely.
Mitch
*HUGS* to all my favorite folks on Webderland! Nice to see the regulars checking in -warm/gushy feeling- And what's this?? ANOTHER Lurker assumes an identity?? Hiya *MITCH*! In response to your "what's all this about..." (forgive me Charlie) It is just another round in an on-going assault of regulars in the alt.fan.harlan-ellison use-net group by a Twit with a Jr. High sense of "put-down" combat, who has apparently mistaken HE for a prehistoric "Goth"(a subculture which Twitzo claims to belong to, and seems to think confers some sort of Divine Right and plenary indulgence upon him), and himself for the heir apparent. 'Nuff Said? **KEEGAN** Wasn't there, didn't do it.. ;-) .. I was responsible for the Klan't-A-Thon - in which pledges were made for each minute the Klan persisted. More than $9k was raised for a variety groups which benefit the intended victims of the Klan.. :-) .. Well, I couldn't just sit on my hands, now..could I? **DOC** U-Auta?? Huh? Is that the Bavarian teen version of a U-turn on the Autobahn? New model of Audi? And now that your reviews are linked - everyone can appreciate what I already know.. :-) .. So my swelled head can return to normal.. ;-) .. And how ironic! I was intimidated by *your* reviews, and overcome with anxiety about my never-claimed literary talent applied to something that demands as much as HE, it took me a YEAR to finally force myself through the ordeal! Only to hear others say _they_ are now intimidated by _mine_ {shaking head in disbelief}.. Which only goes to prove the Million Monkey Theory may indeed have merit - and that we are more alike in our insecurities than abilites.. HEY! If I could do it, anyone can! So have at it, all you Reviewers In Waiting.. Yes, that includes YOU, Nicole, Alex, and BillyD.. Why should I be the only one to suffer?? **RICK** The upgrades to dear old Webderland are Great! Thanks again. **NICOLE** No problem. If you fly, we knock several hundred miles and an extra day off our travel time.. :-) .. **ALEX** Gotta agree whole-heartedly - it's good to see everyone again. *HUGS* for everyone.. :-) ..
Rick- gonna have to back out of that review thing for now. Not because I doubt my abilities, but because all the books I've read have already been taken (well, I've only been reading HE for two months..) Oh well. If other oppurtunities manifest, you'll be sure I'll take them. I do not give up easy. And I read your rant. I agree on celebrity authors and some of the other parts completely, and as for the rest, well, it was well-written and I will say no more. Sue- I have this feeling that I'll be going to DragonCon by plane. I got the letter to mom and she's not as hysterical, but nonetheless. Doc: Look, this may make me sound a little edgy, but, well, I need feedback. You know how I am, expecting the worst and all... Anyway, I mentioned this before, but I would like feedback on my writing. I don't care if you're a writer or the average reader, anything at all. Improving my writing is foremost for me, and I need all the input I can get. I do not give up easy.
Even easier way: (1) Click on "Bio" at the top of this page. (2) Click on the "Official Booklist" or "Ellison Reviews" links.Sorry I fucked up the comment board, it should be All Fixed now.
CHARLIE: There may be an easier route, but here's how to get to the reviews with clicks alone: 1) Go to the Webderland Home Page; 2) Click the "What's New" link; 3) Scroll down to the 01/09/96 entry, click the "Review Section" link. -- Billy D.
HELP!- Does anyone know the link to the reviews? Please post, thanks. Charlie
Okay, the review links are up. I tried to e-mail everyone who was interested in reviewing an Ellison work
but I got a few rejects - if you didn't hear from me let me know! There's also a number of new things online, including a new weekly quote from JT and a new rant from your truly. So check it out!
Well, it's certainly been nice to see the board, usually a three-messages-a-week affair, burgeon this way. New people, regulars posting more often--this is a good thing. Thanks; it's made for some enjoyable reading. Now: Rick, could you PLEEEEZE set up a new link to the Review section? It's really rather annoying to have to retype the endings each time. While I'm on the subject of the reviews, WOW! I had entertained notions of writing a few of my own, but I don't know if I could contend--I consider myself a pretty damn good writer (and am angling for a column on a local paper), but I know any reviews I might write would be far overshadowed by what's already there. Best to stick to the novel, at least until I've delved deeper into the ways and means of *serious* literary criticism. *NICOLE*: Keep plugging. You're the only person who can start OR stop your development as a writer.
Well, I've said enough; this is Hop Harrigan, signing off!
More lurkers creeping out into the light, like palmetto bugs...hello board! Haven't had much to say, til I saw Charlie's post. What's the deal with the Slippage debate? The limited edition came out in '96, the one I have came out in '97. Or should I crack open my skull, scoop out the insides, and start a watermelon patch of my own? "Positive (n): Mistaken at the top of one's voice" - Ambrose Bierce. Oh well...
Mitch
Wow, I'm getting to be a regular about here. (Webderland- where everyone knows your name ::chuckle::) Ah, well, it's a good thing, a very good thing. Doc- thanks for looking at my stuff. It may not be all that great, but the only way I'll improve is if I get feedback, and improving is more important than anything else. I got a goal, and I'll fight to accomplish it "though Hell should bar the way" :) Oh, and could you give me the address for your reviews again? I'm going to make an attempt. Sue-did you get my messages? :) I tell you all, I got all these plans, and backup plans, and backups on my backups overlapping like scales on a snake, and I think, time enough to do them. my mom did definately hook me up a trip to LA (I swear, I am not a stalker, I have two uncles there whom I like spending time with, I did not see this coming in the least bit, and I don't know if you people are actually interested in my babble but I digress :)) Oh, and if anyone else might actually have an interest in reading some of my stuff, just say the word. Any feedback is helpful.
DOC: Fret not, neither be tribbled. You can slide over another bead on your abacus (or rosary); for I too have read your review and am fantabulously impressed. SUE LADY, yours, too--I especially liked your introduction and the tie-ins to HE's life goings-on at the time of writing. Looks like I'm going to have to try a review myself, if only to bring the average quality level back down to something more normal. -- Billy D.
Well, gee whiz!! Or words to that effect. I stay away for a couple weeks and everyone breaks out! Will dutifully catch up on my required reading and return with all sorts of comments. I always have them, you know. Seeya soon!
Hey Everyone, Have you been keeping up with the Usenet/Newsgroup "discussion" between some twit and HE's defenders. I thought it culminated on Friday when David Gerrold jumped in the fray. But the master himself, HE, made an appearance and put the argument to rest. Anyway, some dude with watermelon pits for brains was complaining that Slippage came out in 1997 instead of 1991. Anyway, check it out. A few of the defenders are receiving an autographed copy of HE's next story. Damn, am I jealous. Charlie
I bought Edgeworks 3 today! Whoo-hoo! As soon as I finish "I PAID MY DUES: GOOD TIMES;NO BREAD" by Babs Gonzales, I'm all over Ellison. I can hardly sit still to read this durned comments board, Doc, but I *will* find your reviews and read 'em soon. Luv to all. Sue: you didn't happen to catch the action in Ann Arbor today, did you? Gone!
SJUE> Careful, Missy, I"m a Master of the Ancient Art of Wai-Aih-Aughta (pronounced "Why I oughta,...[the dots are silent])>:} MR. & MRS. AMERICA AND ALL OUR SHIPS AT SEA> This includes *YOU* my little Barney-roo. The documents in question are located at...phhhht! Ahhh! No really - http://harlanellison.com/review/memos.htm; the others are the same address, except when you get to the review/ you can change it to wonder.htm, or nomouth.htm - there. NICOLE> Got your e-mails, and the fiction - hand to God, I'll get you a response before the weekend is out (Pay no attention to that little man behind the curtain! I am Oz!).
WHOA! Get a full eight hours of sleep, and dilly-dally through the next morning, and *miss* all the action on the Webderland B-Board.. If it weren't for all those home-towns listed, I'd think I'm living in a different hemisphere than everyone else.. **FINDER** I'm always fascinated by folks who just can't resist plunking their fannies firmly in the cozy fires of the Webderland B-Board.. Means we've established something in common, right off the top.. hee hee.. A) acctually *think* about things B) can't keep mouth shut when thinking about *cool* stuff C) have the attytude to permit the first two.. WELCOME! We can always use another point of view... especially one that agrees with _ahem_ *mine* on The Beast as a Favorite HE collection.. **DOC** "Jazzy"?? WOW! High praise from you - and that means something to me. Especially since I stand in awe of *your* reviews - which I DID read, and spent untold hours looking up all the stuff mentioned that I _didn't_ know, after I learned enough about it to figure out "where" to look it up.. Sighhh.. I always feel like I'm being Literary obedience-trained when I read your wonderful outpourings.. "Sit Sue" (plunk, pant, pant) "Read Sue" (lips move silently at the speed of light, ears perked) "Speak Sue" (DOH! Did I tell ya 'bout the time...) Think maybe I need an advanced degree in Literary Feedback.. I'm somewhat bowled over by a hint of the notion that you even *might* feel anything I write could possibly come close to the League you are in.. Oh Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy! I dunned it, I dunned it - and they *like* it, they LIKE it.. :-) .. Thanks DOC, I needed that.. And as for the "cruelty" of the DragonCon talk - two thoughts.. 1) Last time there was a Lotto Convention Talk, We ended up being the only ones to go to the ComicCon in Chicago.. 2) Nya-Nya-Na-Nyaaaa-nya to the guy whom HE recognizes, calls by name, and has over for lunch - from the one HE squints at with suspicion when she finally gets to the head of the autograph line.. **BARNEY** Thank you for the glowing recommendation.. Bruno will drop off directions to where we stashed your daughter.. hee hee.. With regards to DragonCon - you can videotape HE, we will videotape Doctor X (master of the figure four leg-lock) vs. Rick reViewMaster (Undisputed Champion of the stereoptic nerve pinch).. ;-) .. **ALL** I've done it again, haven't I? Too much "personal" stuff, not enough cutNdry HE data.. GOOD! -smirk- We don't need no stinking fan-bots...
Doc -> I have not given you any feedback because I can't find the durned things. Please somebody post or repost the http or page to link with these things so Doc can [in the words of that great lit.crit. master Mick Jagger] get hi "fair share of abuse". :-) Finder-> I was at the I-Con panel your talking about and have most of it on audio but not video. I-Con staff are nice folks but they "officially tape" stuff and then it goes into a black hole and is never seen again. This is indeed the kind of stuff I'm looking for. If anybody has a photocopy of his intro. to Geis's "Ravished" drop me a line. Nicole-> the Luesse's are good people and I'd trust them with your life - snicker - actually, I let my daughter ride with them when they were out here - but your but is gonna be sore. $130 $160 and you can fly. You'll be that much less tired when you get there. Your armchair quarterback in the sky - Barney
Could you send me some of those HE stories too? That last one sounds hilarious. As for my sense of humor, it comes with me wherever I go. :) Speaking of stories, Doc, I'm patiently (okay, mabye a little impatiently) waiting for the next instalment of that story you sent me. (A cliffhanger! How cruel! Sir, you taunt me! :)) I'm fine now, really. Just stressed yesterday...
Incidentally, FINDER, as a writer, I find that cheerful pens are much more productive than cross pens. And I want ALL of you to know that I think it's mean, how you keep going on about getting together at Dragon Con, and I can't go. >:{
Everyone keeps *saying* they'll read the reviews, but nobody actually *reads* the blighty things - it's like WAR AND PEACE, for cryin' out loud! My reviews are much shorter and more entertaining than Tolstoy; fast acting, pleasant tasting, ask for them by name, as seen on TV, etc., etc. Same lead-in as Sue's very jazzy document, but with /memos.htm, /wonder.htm, and /nomouth.htm, respectively. Won't someone among my peers please stroke my ego just a little? This has been an utterly raunchy week - think of it as a good deed for the emotionally challenged. FINDER> No, your eyes do not deceive you, I did use the word "pooh," not only without mention of a silly old bear, but without even a reference to Mr. Hanky. Do you have a partner called "Keeper?" "Silly old bear," indeed. Oh bother,...
A lurker throws off his cloak of silence to embrace his peers in the warm light of day...just in time, because I was beginning to think that question that has dogged me from the backwaters of New York to my current fortification outside the Beltway - "Harlan who?" - was going to drive me insane if asked again (but they all knew who was sleeping with who on Melrose Place - and politicos scratch their heads and wonder why we fall behind as a nation...) Greetings, one and all. Though I've been a frequent visitor, I finally decided to foray onto the comments board (actually, it's not in my nature to be quiet for this long...but I've always had this odd self-consciousness about stepping up to the sandbox when other kids are building roads...) RICK: much praise for the site: form and function and an excellent resource. I'd be very interested in stretching my legs on a review, and look forward to more information. SUE: I like, I like! You've done justice to one of my first (and favorite) HE collections, fair and insightful - planning another? DOC: I'm looking forward to your reviews - you turn a sharp phrase (although...did you actually use "pooh" in a sentence a few posts back without making reference to a silly old bear? Could be my eyes playing tricks...) NICOLE: Two cents worth from Finder's Book of Experiential Knowledge, Third Edition (that echoes, essentially, what you've already heard): when you finally meet HE, in addition to a question and your composure, remember to pack your sense of humor; Harlan might poke, but he won't barb you unless you ask for it, and if you're down to earth and take him in the spirit he intends, it'll stay with you a long, long time. And I definitely think you should go for the review: your words and your opinion are two things that will always be uniquely yours, and shouldn't be self-censured through any perceived notions you have about what's feasible for your age, background, whatever. Life the Educator cares not one whit how old you are, it just keeps offering classroom situations...carpe diem! BARNEY: still looking for two-fisted tales of Ellison? Don't know if it's of any value, but I have a first-hand account of a trio of appearences that include an imitation of a goldfish, a six pack of ideas and the complete disruption of a convention panel discussion so Joe Straczynski could receive some spare time. If interested, let me know... ALL: Is DragonCon the place to be? If so, I should start putting aside ducets and planning my escape route from the humdrum that is my career...anyway, my Muse beckons (and she gets so pushy after one a.m.), so I slip off to lamplight, composition book, cross pen and the night. Rest easy --Finder
::smile Rick:: Yep. Why not? And to the rest of you, thanks for being so supportive! It means a lot to me. A LOT. You cannot know. Anyway, I will try a review. And I'd like to see other's reviews so I have some idea of what I should write. I think I'll check some of them out this weekend. I'm kinda in the dark, you see. I'm much better at writing fiction than reviewing it :) but I'll give it my best. Even if I do fall short, at least I'll learn on the way.
**RICK** I will look for those links.. And hey, THANKS! ummm.. have I mentioned what a _*GREAT*_ job you do on Webderland of late?? wellll, errrr, I meant to... Really, I did.. And how many sofa's do you have?? hee hee.. I might be talked into another review - face to face - during DragonCon.. **NICOLE** Hubby seems to think that taking you along would be feasible (not too far out of our way to go through Indianapolis). If you are seriously interested, e-mail me.. And as far as *who* is qualified to do what - honey, whoever gets the job done is qualified to do it. Just give it your best shot, toss it at the world, and see if it flies.. Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe
I don't have Internet access through home through the weekend, and my work has a firewall so no FTPing of information there, but I will have Doc's reviews added to the review list and a new rant up by Monday as well. --------------- ALSO, I have one e-mail interested in reviews and it appears Nicole is as well. I will add a web page about how to join the team and also note on the reviews page which reviews are outstanding and which books are available!
First of all, that line should read "dropped out of COLLEGE twice,..." I only mention it in a probably-futile attempt to allay any forthcoming beastiality jokes at my expense, or that of Lassie. NICOLE> Go get 'em, kiddo! And really, Harlan's reputation is far more sinister than the reality of him. He does not go off unprovoked. He can be a bit sharp-tongued (to say the least!), but it's usually meant in that friendly, offensive joshing manner.
Thanks so much for the support Doc. Tried to print that whole thing out, but my printer's broke or some such...Yes, I AM a writer and I WILL pursue it with all my energy. Writing has, in fact, pretty much saved and killed me at the same time. To be brutally honest, it's probably what kept me from committing suicide some months ago. Yes, I have read "Delusion For a Dragon Slayer" and I WANT to be worthy of those dreams. Granted, I'm not as good as Ray Bradbury or Harlan Ellison for that matter, but I want to learn, and I want to try, and I honestly think I can succed someday. Sue- Near Ann Arbor? Well, I used to live up by Midland, in a town called Auburn, 2 hours out of Detriot, and my parents have a lake house near Muskegeon (sp?), assuming you know where all that is :) and that sounds fine! Back to my rant ;) Actually, the more I think about writing a review, the better I like it. Perhaps I can do a good job of it. And all things aside, as much as I want to talk/meet with Harlan, swear by the Goddess, the guy scares me to death! (Well, I think that's funny...)
SUE> Let me make one thing perfectly, um,...I said, if I recall, *almost* guarantees. That is, if the reviewer, in pursuit of clarity, calls Mr. Ellison to find out "What was the deal widdat?!?", he is likely to ask to see your material - which is what happened in my case; which, in turn, opened up a whole 'nother line of communication. Sorry to hear that learned institution is out of my price-range. How I envy those alumni of dear old P.U., basking lazily in the firelight in the club room, singing the school song and reminiscing about their Caeser Salad days. NICOLE> LadyLark, this is going to sound a lot like "Yes, Virginia, There Is a Santa Claus," but as for being an 18 year old high school student, and therefore too young and uneducated to try your hand at reviewing: rubbish; balderdash; pooh, stuff-and-nonsense, and pshaw! Furthermore, bushwah! I'll have you know that I dropped out of collee twice (once, only to beat them to the draw), almost dropped out of high school, and still graduated late because of Adventures in Government Class. I was also a drunk and a dope fiend for a number of years (which had more than a little to do with the aforementioned tomfoolery. Nevertheless, I have managed to lick my way through most of the classics, and am now engaged in all the delightful "kid" reading I somehow missed growing up. You can *DO* this, kiddo, all you need is to want to do it. Are you a writer or are you not? If you have aspirations to that end, dear Jesus - start now! If nothing else, it'll be a smashing learning experience, a way-cool exercize, and you even run the risk of getting feedback from Harlan Ellison. As one of his readers, you will (if you haven't already) discover that you must be worthy of your dreams, and the first and most important step in that direction is to try - I refer you to "Delusion for a Dragon Slayer." You have nothing to lose in the attempt and everything to gain. Trust me. Trust your heart, not your fear or your "Reason." BARNEY> In the word of that American Cultural Everyman, Homer J. Simpson: "Doh!" *ANYONE* Not that I'm fishing for condiments, but does anybody have anything to say re: the reviews? Cheers, Doc
Hhhhmm - Thanks for the exegesis *BARNEY* - but, uhhh.. ummm.. well.. does this mean I _won't_ get any payola?? Geez - I was really getting into the idea of being promoted from small-potato cyber-reviewer of HE to B-Board editor, too.. Dang.. Double-Dang for you, though. Once again you ask questions that assume I know a Whole Lot More than I do.. What?.. *not* expecting me to answer??.. well, don't that cut the cheese.. ;-) .. *RICK* I second Barney's motion to have a SpellChecker on this komment thingie. At the least. *ahem* _some_ of us could use it.. And if your are soliciting More Reviews, it would be nice to know what still needs reviewing.. As in, do I even HAVE a copy of what you need reviewed.. *DOC* checked out Payola U - it's a private institution, costs too much, no credit transfers, and they ony offer degrees of Humiliation. On and entirely different note (FA), the Mailperson is sending the bill for the hernia repair.. will send it on.. And what do you mean writing a review "guarantees" contact with HE?? Is there something Rick isn't telling me?? You don't mean.. NOOOO! Behind my back?? I'll be very careful not to bend over for the forseeable future.. *KEEGAN* Whoa! Slow down girl! It wasn't THAT good.. Wait 'til you get a load of DOC'S! but, uh - thanks.. -grin- Glad to hear the jazz thing is taking off. Sorry that it takes you away from us. Huge HUG for you, and the et als. *NICOLE* We live in Michigan, north of Ann Arbor - and if you show up here, we'll be happy to give you a ride.. giggle.. You did say you would pay half??.. We'll put you on the back of Hubby's Harley. I'm sure we can fit you on there.. You did say you wanted adventure, right?? And we're good company, too! Umm Barney, might vouch for us.. Or Keegan.. Or Doc - hee hee.. (how come no one else ever took us up on these offers???) *ALL* sorry not to have a lot of HE content.. But attytude should count for something... Laters..
Thanks for the suggestion Doc, but that's really not an option for me. I mean, I'd do it if I would do a worthy job, but as it is, I'm only 18, just about to graduate from high school; there are people a lot better educated to do that than me. BTW, anyone going to DragonCon that is planning on passing through or near the Indianapolis area that can give me some transportation there and back? I'm willing to pay half of all travel expenses, and, may I add, I am GREAT company! ;) E-Mail me if you have something to say on that subject.
DOC> Simple, I started the lets get together in a pit or steel cage WWF thingee as a response to Rick's suggestion that we all converge in Atlanta as a nod to the contentiousness that can be displayed [not lately thank goodness] by this group. DTS recognized that "professional" wrestling has a tradition of employing giants and dwarfs - realized that if tag teams were in the outing, wanted to be teamed up with our only dwarf- ie.DOC. If you were sleepy or dopey [like me] you'd still want the teamup that generates the most snickers. Get it? Of course that DTS thinks along these lines and reacts as though wrestling culture were genetically imprinted a priori information and reads Ellison is an electrochemical combination that I shudder to think about. On an Ellison note, I just re-read "What I Did On My Vacation This Summer, By Little Bobby Hirschorn, Age 27". What a fine story. Sometimes when the story is written over a period of years I find the grafting of pieces pretty easy to spot but in this case, with the exception of the father subplot, which I feel is woven into rather than grafted on it's quite a seamless piece of work. I would be curious to know the story's construction. I suspect at least one stem to stern re-write. Wonderful story. And finally, can anybody tell me anything about a 1960's pb line called Essex or Essex House or the authors Richard Geis or Michael Perkins? Anybody have the SFWA address book. Feel free to contact me off-line. Later gators!
SUE - I dunno whence came this "dwarf" thingumee. Dwarf books? Perhaps entire volumes of fine print? There was some mention of "book-type" - maybe he thinks one of us is trading the other books for typing chores. As for Payola, isn't that one o' them Jesuit universities in New Orleans? KEEGAN - them jazz cats are a nefarious bunch, and mostly nocturnal; anyway what's time when the jam is cookin'? NICOLE - want a couple further tips on chatting with the Maestro? Try reviewing a volume of his work - there will almost certainly be some contact! Drizzel, drazzel, dreezel, drome; time for this one to come home,...
WOWEE! Thanks, Sue! I skimmed your review (too late for a thorough reading---those damnable jazz musicians had me out too late again) but I must say, I am impressed and inspired. I've had my nose so buried in biographies and charts, that I've forgotten to read the written word for the sheer beauty and fun of it. Your review really makes me want to read Ellison. Your synopsis and commentary on the stories I know are terrific. You know I love "Along the Scenic Route" and I thought you did a great job explaining how the story works for the reader. Same thing with "SRO", "Shattered Like a Glass Goblin", too (I didn't go in-depth with "A Boy and His Dog", but I intend to---what I glimpsed looked quite interesting). Anyway, I'm gonna read a story I already know and love tomorrow, and Ellison and I have our longstanding summertime poolside hang slated.......thanks, thanks, thanks!!! Glad I got back 'round these parts!
**KEEGAN** That URL for the reviews is "/review/whatever.htm" - no "s" on review - and mine is click "Bio" above, click "Reviews" (second down in second category), click "Beast"... and appears to be the only one beside Rick's half finished review actually linked to anything... ;-) ... *ahem* Not that I am pushing, or anything.. *cough* Hey! girlfriend! GREAT to see you back! **DOC** You Too! - and where is all the Dwarf Book payola I'm supposed to be getting?? (never heard of Dwarf Books before, but I'll take _anything_ that is free..) Ummmmm..unless that payola is supposed to be going the other way, from *me* to Dwarf Books, in which case, nevermind. I really LIKE the reviews (WOW!). Now I know what I have used all that space on the Hard Drive to save.. I'd say something to DTS, but he won't respond anyway, so why bother. Besides, I really don't have the extra time - takes too long to edit down his voluminous posts to 25 words or less.. hee hee.. Try High - Fly Straight - Drive Safe
Umm, Doc, I tried reviews/beast.htm and got a 404 message "File Not Found" (that is...harlanellison.com/reviews/beast.htm) Don't know what I'm doing wrong. Can somebody hip me?? Danke schoen.