Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 02/12/2005 to 05/24/2005

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Ahhh, c'mon gang, it's been almost a week now. Someone here has to admit to seeing STAR WARS EPISODE III: THE REVENGE OF THE SITH. Don't be shy. I know that this board is often focused on the higher-minded arts, but we certainly can get down and dirty with the POPyoular movies and teevee shows and books and music and such.

So, let's have it.....come out of hiding and give your thoughts on the little movie that managed to be released last week following a month of superhype. Sure, it's expected on this board to be something disliked, even loathed, but there is no way in hell that I'm the only one here who saw it. C'mon....fess up.

I'll start: I took a 4-day weekend last week so Debbie and I could visit the Grand Canyon. We've now lived in Arizona for more than two and a half years and we haven't taken the time to play tourist with what I find to be the ultimate spot-o-beauty. We made a cup-of-joe visit almost 20 years ago on our way to Vegas, and since then the thought of returning has always been stuck to the back of my skull. The thought went something like this: "Jiminy Christmas, you'se gots to see that muthufucking Grand Canyon again you stupid fool. Other than meeting Debbie for the first time, there isn't much else in the world that has taken your breath away like that." OK, the Debbie comment was a bit gratuitous, but she reads this board and maybe it'll get me laid!

Anywho, we headed up to Flagstaff first, figuring that a stayover there would allow us to get to The Canyon bright and early the next day. After making a detour to Meteor Crater, not just any ole crater, but METEOR CRATER, we skidded on into Flagstaff, saw that there was not much to do in Flagstaff on a Thursday evening, and headed on over to the local multi-plex to catch up on the final, but middle, chapter of Star Wars.

It was nifty. Sorry, but it was. It was the epitome of eye-candy, very colorful, very fun, and we had a blast. Yes, Debbie, who never cared for the Star Wars films had a blast.

The Star Wars series has no special nostalgia for me. Many people who have suffered through Episode I, and couldn't admit to liking Episode II (horrible acting with the love story, but still good fun with the rest.....Yoda kicking Christopher Lee's ass is well worth the admission), wax nostalgic over their childhood viewings of Star Wars; the special summertime movie memories they cherish.

I was too old for that. I was 16 when Star Wars was released (No, not Episode IV A New Hope.......Star Wars. Period.) I loved it. It was a hoot. I was saddened to read my hero, Harlan Ellison, shredding the movie, and I always wanted to shout, "Yes, I know that you can't hear sound in space. Yes, I know that space fighters don't need to twist with momentum required due to the force of gravity, but so the fuck what....this is fun!" It was the first time I ever read something by Harlan that made me want to disagree. When he later raved about Raiders Of The Lost Ark, I couldn't understand his acceptance of one modern serial over another, but what the hell....after all, the man still liked my favorite movie, Apocalypse Now, so he can't be all bad huh?

I loved Star Wars, but I didn't worship Star Wars. When its sequel was released, my friends and I dubbed it The Empire Strikes Buttocks because, for some reason I cannot recall, we hated it. I don't now. Jedi is lame. Phantom Menace is embarrasing. Empire does NOT strike buttocks. It is quite fine as Star Wars films go.

OK, I just lost my point. I guess I am wafting nostalgic after all......, 25 years later and I still can't see the title of the first sequel without "buttocks" bouncing around my brain.

Back to Episode III: it's fun. It's colorful. It's got sound in space and the ships fight gravity that doesn't exist. Yoda kicks some more ass. Obi-wan rides a silly big lizard while kicking the ass of an odd clone/droid (?) with severe respiratory problems. Hayden Christenson (or, to be honest, Lucas' script) doesn't quite sell how this whiney young Jedi becomes the dreaded Darth Vader. But y'know what? Fuck if I care. There's fluff movies to hate, and there's fluff movies to enjoy, and this final/middle episode of Lucas' cash-cow is one that I will enjoy again at the theater, and when the DVD is released.

I'll say it loud and I'll say it proud: I am a denizen of the Art Deco Dining Pavilion, and I not only saw Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of the Sith.....I enjoyed it.

Thank you, and good night.

-TODD

now playing BBC7.....
..the Soldier thing...it's well done, but I wish Harlan could have narrated it himself. Oh well, England is far away from Los Angeles... When exactly was it made? BBC7 seems like a rerun channel for classic programming. Mind you I like a lot of it - yesterday I listened to a Dr Who episode (with Jon Pertwee! obviously THAT can't be brand new, he died awhile back...didnt he?) and Ibsen's _Enemy of the People_ (The 19th century archetype of HE, and Ralph Nader, and....)

yeah, I know, I'm clueless. I'm not British....

Amy - you can make CDs from webcasts?? Huh? Oh well, if it's illegal I guess I don't *want* to know how. Many programs are not available as licensed recordings though. (The more fools they; it's better to co-opt the Internet than fight it.)

cf Nellie McKay...

I have Realplayer, which comes with access to a legal-download store (99 cents per song, $9.99 per album or about $17.50 for a double album like the McKay one) only my connection is a bit slow for that; it would take an hour to download one song on dialup. Anyway, I found it filed there under "Alternative/Punk/Indie Rock/Baroque Pop." Whatever that is. What, not in the jazz or jazz-pop or fusion area? I'll have to check Tower Records' web site (which has more than the physical stores usually stock...)sub-genres are awfully hard to figure out.

Kristin

Finally--I will be heading up to Los Angeles to meet Harlan Ellison. Last time bad tires kept me from going to his booksigning. Now I have no excuse! I've been looking forward to this ever since I was mailed a card last week announcing this shindig. If anyone else from this site is going, let me know. I'd love to meet the people behind the posts that I've been reading for some time now.

Thurl Ravenscroft, February 6, 1914 - May 22, 2005
I'm sad to report the death of Thurl Ravenscroft at the age of 91. Ravenscroft was best known as the voice of Tony the Tiger, but he also sang "You're a mean one, Mr. Grinch," and many voices throughout the Disney Parks including The Grim Grinning Ghosts section of the Haunted Mansion.

http://news.google.com/news?q=Thurl+Ravenscroft&num=30&hl=en&lr=&newwindow=1&safe=off&sa=N&tab=nn&oi=newsr

http://members.aol.com/allthurl/thurl2.htm

Oopsie!

HARLAN: (I swear I talk to people other than Harlan)
That's what I get for not checking the Pavilion more regularly. I burned the BBC 7 production of SOLDIER to CD this morning and sent it to your home via Priority Mail. If Rob's version is better than mine, feel free to give mine a ride in the microwave oven. And of COURSE I wouldn't distribute it otherwise! I figured that you had rights to a copy of your own work.

As for your birthday, I get the impression you care for them about as much as I do. I gave up on birthdays several years ago. Not going to post WHY here, but I have a good reason. We also have similar feelings about Xmas, though I'm still forced to grudgingly participate in the whole mess. You'll understand why I pointed that out when you see the notecard with the disc.

Did you know that your "birthday party" is being held on National Masturbation Day? I do hope your guests don't celebrate both at the same time.

Harlan,

Are you doing any more work for BBC Radio? I'm working on a Drama-doco for BBC Radio Drama for broadcast in November 2005.

FAQ

Early Birthday Greeting
I will probably be under the knife with a minor operation at a local hospital...on your birthday...so....here is an early one for you, HE. H A P P Y B I R T H D A Y ! ! !

Harlan,

I was wondering how you'd handle the copyright issue of that, which is why I offered the link only. Glad you were able to authorize a dupe. It's very good and has the bumpers before and after.

Happy Birthday, sir.

Jay

ROB:

By all means, find me at the EnigmaCon, and introduce yourself. Love to meet you and shake your hand, and if needed, berate you...on whatever topic you feel necessary.

As for bringing me a download of the BBC programme--this is for Steven Barber in Long Beach, whose remarks are, in the main, dead on correct--I do not believe that even I have the right to steal off the web. HOWEVER, the legal permission to do so on my behalf is implicit in my contract with BBC 7. The rights permission we mutually signed guarantees me an aircheck of the programme for my files, and one for the university archive(s) that keep my papers and samples of my work. So Rob, acting as my designated "agent" in this matter, may in fact download the artifact if it is given only to me, and I do not reuse it commercially.

So, yes, Rob, in this lone instance you, or anyone else here, may download a copy for me...but for no other purpose save your own personal use, with no exceptions to the "no passing it on" rule.

If any of you know more of this than I do, please jump in and straighten me out. You know how sedulous I am about this stuff, and I don't want there to be even the PERCEPTION of breaking the rules.

Thanks to both of you, and to Amy, as well.

Yr. pal, Harlan

re: the end of wormholes for time travel
Wasn't it James Blish who said, "All the science I ever needed, I got out of bottle of Scotch?"

Remember all those old SF stories set on non-rotating Mercury that were renedered obsolete when it was discovered that Mercury did rotate and did not endure one hemisphere in perpetual day?

Well it looks like another entire category of SF stories might have just been flushed.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4564477.stm

Dear Keith:

I know what you went through. Tried the Metrogel (cream for me), but no luck. Tried about 10 variations, and got the "backlash"--which can happen. All hail to a very thick layer of foundation. I worship the god Sephora.

Best--Susan

Uploads and Copies
Rob -
As you will undoubtedly be told by others, uploading and copying of copyrighted material for distribution, even free, is strictly verbotten. See Mr. Ellison's protracted battle with AOL, et al, for examples. Those same laws apply to performed as well as written properties. I would avoid, at all costs, anything above and beyond copying for your own benefit -- or at least anything you publicly admit to doing on a website message board.

And I, too, am a way-too-long-in-the-tooth Harlan fan.

ASIDE TO COOKIE:
Disc rec'd and now permanently lodged in my automotive cd player. Wonderful work, m'lady. My esposa was dutifully impressed (she of the pipes like your own). Keep 'em coming!



Nim

Nellie McKay
Just listened to some samples on Amazon.Com. She has a great range: you can't say these songs all sound alike. I will hie self to the CD store.

Found out by accident that she's an actress too, and has a movie (SAFETY GLASS) out this year.

pipes like Billie


Infodude
beat me to the punch, but yesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyesyes,
Madileine Peyroux,
yesyesyesetc.

regards,

neal, who is reading don quijote and laughing a lot

Solidarity, Sister!
Susan,

I was diagnosed with a mild case of rosacea in 2001, after spending an agonizing summer and winter with a painful splotch on my face under my right eye. The dermatologist told me it was a very mild case... Nevertheless, I got a prescription for Metrogel and someone who loves me signed me up to get the Rosacea Review (The national Rosacea Society Newsletter). It has been very helpful.

I'm fairly lucky that my case is mild, and the flareups generally occur during winter. My tube of Metrogel lasts a whole year.

I can only imagine what a worse case might feel like. If you don't mind talking about it, how long does the laser treatment last, and is it painful? I am fortunate that the Metrogel takes away the scaly redness after a few hours, and also the pain.

Incidentally, having seen you several times now in stalking Harlan the Nightmare Maker, I never would have guessed you were a fellow sufferer, especially to the severe degree you seem to be. So those treatments must work.

-Keith

HARLAN: From her website, http://www.nelliemckay.net :

BOOKING AGENT
Joe Brauner, Creative Artists Agency
212-277-9000

PUBLICITY
Carla Parisi, Wrecking Ball Media
973-846-0041
wreckingball@nj.rr.com

Benny Tarantini, Columbia Records
212-833-5858
Benny_Tarantini@sonymusic.com

Intro and I have Part One of Soldier recorded ... Part Two soon.
Hello All,

So I have just managed to record part one of Soldier from the BBC 7 web site. Part two should be available very soon. The recording is in MP3 format and I can burn this to an audio CD with part one and part two.

I don't think this is a problem but I do wonder about the difference between recording a radio program to a cassette tape for personal use, recording a web stream of a radio show for personal use and downloading a TV show for personal use. I'm sure that would be an interesting discussion here.

Anyway, I can send off the CD as soon as I have part two recorded.

Now for anyone interested a bit of an anecdotal introduction:

My name is Robert Cohen.
I started reading Harlan when I was in junior high school. At that point I had the bright idea to make a super 8 movie (I was making a lot of them then) based on the short story "Eggsucker." I wrote to Harlan to ask permission (having paid some attention to what I was reading by Harlan I certainly wasn't going to proceed without permission). A few weeks later, I got a phone call from Harlan explaining to me that I could not do this as the story was in development at NBC. I also got the sure feeling I had been a bit naive (which I certainly was) but Harlan was very polite and to the point... and I was delighted to run around telling my friends at the time that I had just gotten a phone call from Harlan Ellison.

Later that summer, I went up to Phoenix to see Harlan as the guest of honor at the world Science Fiction convention and had a grand time. At one point, perhaps after the reading from I ROBOT, Harlan asked, "Any questions?" Sitting in the front row, I quickly raised my hand, to which Harlan replied with something like, "Be sure your question is intelligent or I shall surely berate you," to which I quickly put my hand down, giving Harlan a great big laugh from the audience. I actually was never in doubt about my intelligence or the intelligence of my question but at 14 wasn't really up to facing down threats in general and I was also sure that putting my hand down would get a laugh and I would still get to ask my question later, which I did.

Well enough with the kid stories, I'm sure we all have lots. But I will add that if it wasn't for Harlan and The Glass Teat or The Deathbird stories, etc., I might never have become so interested in media reform or comparative religion or producing documentaries (my latest project can be seen at www.votergate.TV) or certainly wouldn't have ever read Borges (first failing in my teens and then succeeding in my 30's on a determined and delighted second try). So, much gratitude is held by me on all those points and many others.

If I can, I'm thinking the convention would be fun this weekend. It has been a long time since I've been to an SF convention and if anyone else from this group is about maybe we could meet. Perhaps I could bring the CD then if I can go.

Well glad to chime in here with you all and I hope the recordings are a welcome addition to the archives.

All best regards,
Rob Cohen

Guess I gotta find this Nellie McKay person. Still won't make me forsake the wonderful memory of the late Kirsty Macoll.

Nellie McKay
From "I Wanna Get Married:"
"I need to cook meals/I want to pack cute little lunches/for my Brady bunches/then read Danielle Steele."

I'm in.

Mark W.

Department of Too Much Information Dept.?
"Soldier" Music

The opening music you hear when the reading begins is part of a song called "Son Et Lumiere" by The Mars Volta. Here's a link for samples from Amazon.com Very freaky progressive rock. -- duane

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00009V7T2/qid=1116893191/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/103-5194126-4494244

SOLDIER
HARLAN & SUSAN:

A/V geek that I am, I've taped part one on regular audiocassette. I'll catch part two tomorrow and send it off to you immediately.

Don't know if you're gonna dig the read, though....

David Savage: Thanks for the info!
Jay Smith: Thanks for the direct link! Oh, and I should have your KTMAs ready by the end of the week.

HARLAN and NELLIE MCKAY
HARLAN: I took the liberty of passing your words below onto Joe Brauner of CAA; he will absolutely get them to Nellie McKay. So your superlatives about Ms. McKay's music will eventually get to her (and I'm sure she'll revel in them).

All best to you & Susan,

D.T.S.

NELLIE MCKAY
INFOMAN asked me to say that he's sorry he screwed up the spelling of Nellie McKay's name in the post below -- but all the superlatives still stand. By way of penance, an URL to a nifty profile in which the writer agrees with Harlan's assessment of Ms. McKay (the new Cole Porter):
http://newyorkmetro.com/nymetro/arts/music/features/n_10015/

Regards,
Anya

NELLY MACKAY
HARLAN (and everyone else who has only just picked up on her): Glad you guys _finally_ gave Nelly a listen -- I've been raving about her since her CD hit the stores last year. I even raved about her right here on Webderland (guess I'll need to rave LOUDER next time). Fee-nomenal, ain't she? (The Doris Day-style album cover is keen). Can't wait to here what she cooks up next.
And while she isn't as wildly creative and as eclectic Nelly MacKay (pronounced Muh-Kiii), Madileine Peyroux has great set of pipes well worth your listening time.

Yours in recycled info,
the Man

TV, Music and Such
Adam-Troy: Saw your review of SAPPHIRE AND STEEL on Sci-Fi weekly. Gotten any hate mail yet? Well, seriously it is difficult to get anyone into that show if they aren't already hooked; it IS slow-paced, cerebral and just plain weird! I first heard of it reading the old magazine Fantasy Empire. My father called it a "Beckett play" and I had no answer for him. LOL. I agree it's a rotten shame the series ended on a cliff hanger and then never came back.

Harlan: Thanks for the CD recommendation. Um is it really two discs of audio material or just the new "Dual Disc" FORMAT (look up on amazon.com) which sounds like it tries to combine audio cd with DVD or something and may not work on all players. (esp car ones)I didn't want to bother with the friggin video sales pitch just to find out what Dual Disc is. Hey, you can even get a BLEEPED audio version without the naughty lyrics! (the one they sell at Walmart I guess.) You can get the non-Dual Disc version for about $4 cheaper.

iirc PAL is a VIDEO format (the British standard for analog TV) it can be converted to American NTSC, or you can try to get hold of a multi-standard VCR. Digital formats (audio or video) are another matter. The UK is way ahead of the US with digital audio broadcasting (DAB - terrestrial digital radio although it is often available on satellite too)... If you want to just *listen* to BBC7 etc to www.bbc.co.uk/radio - if your machine does not already have streaming audio software you can download it (realplayer or windows media if you use IE) for free. And yes, it does work on dialup! Although you probably need a version of Windows that is less than five years old....I have BBC7 on live right now and they archive shows on their server too. Although there's a warning it might be disrupted by "industrial action" (ie strike)......

Do you know if British digital radio *can* be taped to analog (universal format) audio cassette?

ANd then we have DVDs which are DELIBERATELY incompatible - (US region one, UK region two, etc) to (supposedly) prevent piracy....and incompatible digital-TV formats. Oh well.

Sigh...I haven't been to any meetings of the incredibly long running local Dr Who fan club (some members weren't even born when it started) but maybe they have the new series in a US format....connections you know.

Kristin
love elcectica and old British TV
yeah, I probably sound smart alecky. Sorry

Nellie McKay

GET AWAY FROM ME is really as good as Harlan says; I've been playing it without letup for the past six months, and the sucker hasn't quit yet. For once, a CD's cover blurb gets it right: She sounds like an unholy mix of Doris Day and Eminem, with (as Harlan notes) healthy dollops of Randy Newman, Blossom Dearie, and Cole Porter thrown in for good measure. Harlan, if you want to get in touch with her, go to http://www.nelliemckay.net/, and write her an email. Her new CD is due out in September, and it would be a gas if you could supply the liner notes.

(And since we're raving about new songwriters, I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest you check out I AM A BIRD NOW, by Antony and the Johnsons. Someone said that hearing Antony's voice--reminiscent of Nina Simone in many ways, yet wholly distinct--is like hearing Elvis for the first time. All I know is, I listened to five seconds of "Hope There's Someone," the opening cut on I AM A BIRD, and I had goddamned GOOSEBUMPS. So check him out, by all means.)

(Shit, I may even send you a copy. That's how sure I am you'll dig it.)

Direct Linkage
Correction,

To streamline your listening pleasure, use this address:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/listenagain/monday/rams/1800.ram

You must have RealAudio player.

Part One.

Soldier repeat on BBC7
Harlan,

I caught the tail end of Part one. If you direct your browserthe the following address and scroll down to the 18:00 - 18:30 programme, you can hear and/or record it using the ole stone knives and bearskin techniques.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/listenagain/monday/

DAVID SAVAGE:

Thanks, kiddo, but no thanks. PAL is useless to us. But many many thanks for the heads-up. We'll try to prise an aircheck out of the Beeb. But if anyone else in the U.K. with a plain old tape recorder can catch it IN SITU, we would not turn it down. The archives cry out.

And on ce more, David, thank you.

Yr. pal, Harlan

WHO DID IT?

I may be losing it.

I cannot, for the life of me, remember who, among you, sent me the unsolicited gift of a 2-CD album by a new (to me) and breathtakingly original singer/pianist/lyricist/composer named

NELLIE McKAY

whose 18-track introduction (to me) has not knocked me out in response to a new talent so spectacularly as when, for instance, I first heard Steve Lacy on soprano sax decades ago.

Folks, this woman is THE GOODS.

Cookie, was it you?

She has a vibrant, multidimensional, muscular, yet sweet as candied yams voice that sometimes rechannels Jackie Cain of Jackie & Roy fame; sometimes capers like Blossom Dearie, sometimes gutbuckets like Frances Faye, sometimes swings sweet like June Christy or Chris Conner, sometimes inveigles like Ella, sometimes sounds like the separated-at-birth sib of Bob Dorough, sometimes (when she's singing and playing piano accompaniment) reminisces the great voice of the recently-departed Jackie Paris, and the very early Mark Murphy, with a soupcon of Frank D'Rone. And Noel Coward weariness.

She metamorphoses from track to track, first doing ballad, then scat, then hip-hop, then pure jazz club warbling, then big band a la The Andrews Sisters, then barrelhouse, then sophisticated Bobby Short melodiousness, then she goddam goes off without even a warning and belts out a rhythm&blues-cum-rap-Hoagy Carmichael creation (bow-wow-wow--W O W !). She takes from every milieu, every venue, recapitulates and brings them forth born anew. Her range, both vocally, and conceptually, is amazing: courant, informed, smart as smart can be, sly but never arrogant, touching but pragmatic, endearing but never treacly. Each composition makes its special appeal; but never begs, never drywashes its hands a la Uriah Heep; never cries crocodile tears and tries for cheap sympathy. Snappish, sometimes; but never meanspirited.

She has written the music and lyrice for everything on these discs, and...

Wait for it...

Remember you heard it here first...

Nellie McKay is the 21st Century Cole Porter.

I'll say it again.

NELLIE McKAY IS TO MODERN LYRICS WHAT COLE PORTER WAS TO THE MOST URBANE, WITTIEST, MOST PIERCING AND PROVOCATIVE GREAT WORD-PLAY 20th CENTURY MUSICAL ARENA.

Folks, this kid is Brecht-Weill rolled up in one, with an urban, succulent sense of Lotte Lenya and Peggy Lee stirred in. She is Porter and Randy Newman and Eminem and Lambert/Hendricks/&/Ross and Oscar Brown, Jr. and Noel Coward and Dorothy Donegan and Billy Strayhorn and Lorenz Hart and Yip Harburg and Bono neatly assimilated, transmogrified and daubed on here'n'there to get the color of their essence, yet in no way overpowering the genuine originality of her voice, her singing style, her rhythmic sense, her piano playing and...most of all..to be knocked out by it...and the lyrics come with the album so you can follow along...HER COMPOSITIONAL, HER WRITING, HER CREATING SENSE is (and I use the word advisedly, yet properly) awe inspiring.

I get a lot of music from readers. All the time. More than I want, more than I can listen to. Most of it is shit. Some of it is playable. A bit of it is listenable. A drib or dollop is enjoyable. Once, during a very delicate shade of blue, moon I get something that is keepable, memorable, worth my ear-time and my thought-time. But not in MANY years have I heard anybody like a Stevie Ray Vaughn, an Anita O'Day, a Roy Orbison, a Nat King Cole, a Jane Green, a Cliff Edwards, a Theo Bikel, a Billie Holliday, a Todd Duncan or Paul Robeson...a Janis Joplin, so clearly identifiable, a fresh sound without peer, combined in a person whose songwriting skills compare solidly with, oh hell, even Jacques Brel and Leonard Cohen.

So who has done me this great pleasure?

Who, among you, remind me please, so I can say thankyou again and again, who sent me NELLIE McKAY?

I'd love to get in touch with her, to convey the joy expressed above. And if she needs someone to write the liner notes on her next CD, well, it's been years since my last forays--a Benny Goodman album, and a pair of film scores by Ennio Morricone--but I'd fair fancy to ricochet a few remarks anent this kid.

So, please, whoever my Secret Santa has been, declare thyself.

And as for the rest of you...I do not think you will hate me for suggesting you rush out forthwith and obtain the Columbia 2-disc CD

GET AWAY FROM ME.

By Nellie McKay.

Yr. pal, the enthralled Harlan

SUSAN

I don't get in from work till after the 6pm SOLDIER broadcast, and I've only just read your note. My plan had been to listen to it from the BBC7 website using the 'listen again' feature, which should be functioning for 'Soldier' from tomorrow.

But I've just noticed that there's a repeat at midnight each night.

However, I can only receive digital radio via a Freeview box attached to the TV, so my only way of taping it would be onto a PAL VHS tape. Is this still of use to you?

Harlan: Buncha newspapers with the Arthur Salm interview went into the mail Friday. Should arrive Wed-Thursish. Sorry it took me so long, but there it is.

Soldier on BBC7 TONIGHT

DAVID:

Thank you for the notice regarding SOLDIER. Would you do us a favor and record the show for us? Please, also, and this is important, would you include date and time of recording. If the aircheck includes interstitial material -- such as an announcement of BBC identification or suchlike -- by all means don't cut it out. It helps us in verifying provenance of the broadcast for bibliographers. This is a godsend, your advisement, as we would have no other timely way of knowing this adaptation was about to be aired and, as we have no access at the moment, a copy for our files becomes most important. We will, of course, reimburse you for any costs incurred.

Please let us know if this great favor is possible.

Thank you in advance. Susan

the transformation of ideas over time

Alex wrote:

> I love much of Bradbury's work, but sometimes the man is a bit
> too quick to assume ownership of an idea. "The Butterfly Effect,"
> good or bad, is not a steal from "A Sound of Thunder," and, in
> fact, doesn't resemble it.

I haven't seen the movie, but I suspect it would be a little difficult to draw a direct line from Bradbury's story to it. As Alex says,

> It's one of those stories where someone keeps going back in time
> in an attempt to change the present for a desired effect (and, of
> course, every attempt results in a present worse than the previous
> one). Bradbury's a great creator, but he didn't coin the notion of
> going back in time to change the past and thereby "fix" the present.

And "The Sound of Thunder" isn't about that at all. No one goes back to the past to fix the present; rather, someone goes back to the past for a little adventure, and a tiny error creates sizable changes in the future.

Regarding the concept of "The Butterfly Effect," I seem to recall that some physicist or geometeorologist coined the term, inspired by Bradbury's story, for small disturbances in one locus that connect to much larger disturbances far away -- the notion that a butterfly flapping its wing (not being killed, as in Bradbury's story) in China might lead to a tsunami on the other side of the globe. I suspect this was not intended to be a scientific description but more a metaphor for unforeseen, distant, and possibly dire effects from seemiingly small activities.

So this concept, as well as its rather different use in the recent pop movie, are both descendants of, separate branches from, Bradbury's story.

As for Bradbury's irritation at Michael Moore,

> An homage to Bradbury is not the same thing as theft.

is all that need be said.

Bradbury
I love much of Bradbury's work, but sometimes the man is a bit too quick to assume ownership of an idea. "The Butterfly Effect," good or bad, is not a steal from "A Sound of Thunder," and, in fact, doesn't resemble it. It's one of those stories where someone keeps going back in time in an attempt to change the present for a desired effect (and, of course, every attempt results in a present worse than the previous one). Bradbury's a great creator, but he didn't coin the notion of going back in time to change the past and thereby "fix" the present.

This is a bit like Bradbury's complaint that Michael Moore had used a play on the title of "Farenheit 451." Like that title, Bradbury's image of stepping on an insect has become a recognized bit of the contemporary vocabulary. But that doesn't mean that every reference to it is all there is to every piece that uses it as a reference. An homage to Bradbury is not the same thing as theft.

I haven't seen this mentioned here, although the article isn't new... Apparently Bradbury claimed that the concept of the movie "The Butterfly Effect" (which I think Harlan was hired to write a small publicity text for) was "a direct steal from me, of course". http://www.cfq.com/interviews/a_classic_encounter.htm

Again, for HARLAN AND SUSAN:

I received the goodies last night. Thank you! As always, not necessary, but very much appreciated. Harlan, THANK YOU. You know the memory of that pepper mill has been driving me mad for years. I ordered one immediately after reading your post. We can compare taste in peppers next time. :)

Sad to hear that PAPRIKASH FONO is gone. It has indeed become BIG SKY RANCH, an (ugh) "American Steakhouse." I'm from Texas. Steak, I don't need. I also did some checking on BRAVO FONO, and found a few more ratings and an old review. Sounds as though it's a mix of Italian, French, and perfunctory Hungarian. There's not a single damned Hungarian restaurant in the entire state of Texas, so I always look for one when I travel.

And of COURSE I can make langos. But that stuff doesn't travel. Sorry!

Here are the restaurant links, shortened for comfort:

March 1995 review:
http://tinyurl.com/dbd6t

3 user ratings, 2001-2003:
http://tinyurl.com/ahdxw

I don't think anyone has mentioned this. I'm not sure when it was made, but there's a two-part radio adaption of 'Soldier' on BBC7, one of the BBC's UK digital stations, being broadcast on Monday and Tuesday night, 6pm. It should be possible to both listen to it live and to listen again after broadcast on the BBC7 website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbc7/

http://www.digitalcity.com/sanfrancisco/dining/venue.adp?sbid=100984300

On closer look, all the reviews are from 2000 and 2001, so probably aren't relevant. If you like, I can check around to see if any of the local net-connected foodies have eaten there recently.

Keith,

I was responding to your request to resolve the conflict between freedom of speech and respect of the feelings of others in the recent Koran incident. When lives are on the line, it’s not sufficient to justify action with an abstract freedom-of-speech position such as, “They got the right to flush that book, and I got the right to report it, and fuck ‘em if it puts their turbans in a twist.”

When you perform an inflammatory act, it needs to be for a reason.

There needs to be a positive return on any horror that is unleashed.

The media must certainly confront the shameful things that are being done in America’s name. America will never find peace while its actions reveal it as an oppressive colonial power willing to torture innocent and guilty alike to insure a steady supply of cheap oil. But unfocused “spray and pray” muck raking does nothing to advance the resolution of the situation at hand. So much of what passes as “journalism” today has no more depth or purpose than that of a bored three year old poking a hornets nest with a stick, just to see what will happen.

I’m all admiration for the confrontational and constructive journalism of a man like Thomas Friedman, but I can’t say that I understand or respect the motives of a magazine like Newsweek when it prints a blurb like the Koran article, and then is unable to back up its facts or successfully defend itself when the shit hits the fan.

Robert Sheckley update


at www.neilgaiman.com

there is a url posted there for a Paypal account where we can donate to RS's Relief Fund.

I would post it here, but it appears extremely long.

so go to Neil's site and have a looksee.

Regards,

Neal

TOM:

Plz, if you will: a URL code so I can check out those user reviews for Stanford Fono.

he

Hungarian restaurant info
Doing some Web searching, I found that Ghiradelli Square has no Hungarian restaurants at present. However, I did find the following, taken from an AOL city guide thingie:

---------------
Bravo Fono
Stanford Shopping Center
Palo Alto, CA (i.e. down here in Silicon Valley about 30 miles S. of San Francisco)

The owners had the Paprika Fono Hungarian restaurant at San Francisco's Ghirardelli Square before coming to Palo Alto in the 1980s. An outside wall of glass bricks lends a glow to the dining room, further enhanced at night by candlelight, white tablecloths and brightly colored paintings by the restaurateur's daughter. Favorites at lunch are the light salads and the seafood melange in puff pastry with a sherry sauce. At night, lovers opt for the bouillabaisse, braised lamb shank or tender mussels sautéed in a wine-perfumed sauce. Desserts are rich.
-----------------

6 user reviews, with four very high and two very low. Haven't eaten there myself.

REPLIES TO SOME 'A YOUSE

ROB EWEN & JON MANZO:

The package with my (unsolicited grrrrrr) birthday presents arrived today. As usual, they were smart and hard to resist, despite my psychopathia anent people gifting me. So you earn my thanks, another year of huggybunny friendship, and a wry smile at your indefatigability.

The Borges lectures was an inspired choice, and I am faunching to play the artifact. The Hiaason--as you suspected--I already had, and had read, and had enjoyed enormously, though on sum I find Hiaason's antic-crime-cape novels a pale imitation of Westlake and Dutch Leonard and Larry Block, who OWN that vein of ore. Nonetheless, TEAM RODENT was a super essay, and since I already have a copy, I called a man whom i know only HATES the Disney Oligarchy--his name is J. Michael Straczynski--it may strike a familiar note--and queried him as to the book's presence in HIS library. He said not, and so you may rest easily knowing your birthday gift went to a regifted good home.

Thanks again, both of you.

Jon, please tell your mother, the bounteous Gladys, that our baby is well, but seems to have developed the croup; and our child continues to cry for her mommy. Was it something we said?

Seduced & abandoned, Yr. pal, Harlan

-----------------------------------------------------------------

KEITH CRAMER & ROB:

Susan has been doing the facial laser surgery for some while now. Oh, I'd say a year and a half...we just don't talk about it much, openly, beyond the circle of our close friends. It is because--fair-skinned English rose that she is--Susan suffers from a serious case of rosacea. (You could look it up.) It was what W.C. Fields (and about 15 million other Americans)(primarily fair-skinned women) suffered from. They thought the red nose and florid complexion was the mark of Fields being the inveterate tippler, but it was also rosacea. It is seriously painful; and though Susan never complains, she exists in a near-constant state of discomfort and frequent anguish. So the V-Beam Laser treatments "blow up" the blood vessels in the face, shrinking them, and thus reducing the redness...though not the pain. The treatment leaves her face visibly bruised, and she is, naturally, uncomfortable going out in public till the discolorations and swelling go down. Unfortunately, the dermatologist Susan sees only gets the V-Beam once a month, and this time my honey's appointment coincides with one of my public appreances (EnigmaCon, UCLA, next Saturday). So she's a bit wing-flappy about it.

As for the "birthday party" they're putting on for me--the day before, Friday the 27th of May, same day as Kissinger's and Dashiell Hammett's, being my natal-celebration hello 71--it was held as a secret even from Susan till last week (the convention committee went through that double-agent Mata Hari Kathryn Drennan, Joe Straczynski's wife) and if you mooks aren't already seriously aware of my feelings re such interludes, well, let's just say I am trying, in my declining years, as the shadow overflies my demesne, to be more gracious and just to smile like a mensch, to accept, to look goofy, and to pretend to being sooo surprised. Beyond that, kindly spare me the snippy remarks about ooooooo how did you get haaaaaaarlan to show up for a berthhhhhhhhday party?

I can still hurt you, you know.

Resignedly, and with a death rictus grin, I remain,

Yr Olde Pal, Harlan

-----------------------------------------------------------------

AMY KOSTYN-JENKINS:

The "traveling peppercorn mill" of mine that you covet, was designed and made for me by Tom David of Tom David, Inc. in Nantucket, Massachusetts. You can obtain one or more easily, and I'll give you the specifics in a moment; but the manner in which Tom and I linked up for the creation of this useful gadget is an emblematic anecdote of how I purposely (and with charming humility) manipulate the received world to provide me with my every smallest desire. Here's how it went down:

Fifteen years ago or so, I saw a small advertisement (it was either in the back of an issue of The Atlantic or The New Yorker) for a "one-handed pepper mill." Looked good; nifty design; clever idea. It was, in fact, the Unicorn Peppergun, available in black or red; and I gave a phone call to (508) 228-6233, which was Unicorn/Tom David, Inc. at 6 Old Quidnet Milk Route, PO Box 541, Nantucket MA 02554, and by chance got Tom hisownself.

We chatted, he knew who I was, and I ordered a red peppergun. (In the years that have followed, I've ordered maybe a dozen more, for friends.)(That first one lasted a full decade-and-a-half-plus before constant use produced a tiny fracture in the plastic, and Tom replaced the item free, though that is probably just me...but at least it's a testimonial for its serviceability even if you wear out one every ten-plus years.)

Then he asked me if I had any ideas for "new products" congruent with his area of expertise, gadgets I might be wistfully dreaming of someone someday inventing...and I leapt like a puma:

I do a lot of travel by air for lecturing (I said) and one of the things that drives me bugfuck is the parsimonious piffle packet of cheapass pepper that comes with every snack or meal on the planes. First of all (I continued), the quality of the peppercorns used is the lowest one can obtain, because most people have no savory palate for the exquisite varieties of peppers available. So the fairydust sprinkle one can prise out of that packet enhances in no discernible way the wretched fare one is being served, which MIGHT, possibly, only maybe, be slightly bettered were the condiments fresh and eloquent.

Second, there's barely enough to pepper a piece of carrot in that packet. If you want pepper on your steak, your peas, your beans, your salad, your gravy, your fish, your tomatoes...well, forget it, Jack. Seven grains, most of which spray off into the aisle or your lap.

Third, that friggin' paper packet defies entry. The pepper is contained in hollow tubes, or "runs" as they're referred to in the trade, which--when you carefully pinch open the packet--squeeze closed, thereby trapping what little pepper was therein to begin with. Or you get what looks like the standard sugar packet of paper, and when you tear away the hem, half the grains spill, unless you've been prescient enough to shake-down and tap the packet beforehand. All of the foregoing of which, is a nuisance and a pain in the ass, for a reward barely commensurate with the effort. (I concluded, now red in the face.)

Tom roared with laughter.

"I'll see what I can come up with, to ease your pain," he said. Or words to that effect. It has been more than fifteen years.

Some while later, I got a call from Tom, reminding me who he was, asking me if my flame-red one-handed peppergun was working okay, and saying that our little chat had borne some interesting fruit, and there was a package in the mail to me, that I should let him know how I took to the contents.

It was, of course, the Unicorn Minimill that you admired when we had lunch, Amy. When I pull it out on a plane, at first people cannot figure out what I'm doing, and some even make snotty remarks about, "Oh, you travel with your own pepper shaker," to which I ALWAYS reply, "Pepper MILL, not 'shaker.' You 'shake' that grubby thimbleful of crap on your lettuce while I grind fresh Jamaican peppercorns onto MY salad. Yes, I in fact DO 'travel with my own pepper' mill. Do you, and I hope the answer is yes, have a problem with that? Or would you simply prefer to fall enviously silent so I can lord it over you?"

Tom is a terrific guy, his products are splendiferous, and you can find him on the internet at www.peppergun.com or call his company toll-free at 800-634-8881.

As for PAPRIKASH FONO in Ghiradelli Square, it has been a number of years since I ate there, and the last time it had been hideously and trendily renamed something like "The Fono Big Sky Restaurant." It still served Hungarian food of a high order, as I recall, but some of the specialties I relished, and went there specifically to enjoy, were either no longer extant, or had to be ordered sotto voce sans menu. It seemed still to be doing business, but I had the feeling the untutored palates of most visiting tourists were acclimated only to fast-food crap, and that Paprikash Fono, under WHATEVER name, was undergoing tense times.

I don't even know if it's still there; and if it is, does it still specialize in Magyar cuisine? If anyone out there lives in the San Francisco enclave, and could handily answer these questions for Amy and me...we would bow in your direction.

Hoping this answers the questions, I remain,

Longing for langosh, Yr. pal married to a Hungarian-Brit,

Harlan

"so Pornopolitik would be: Saddam Hussein's anus?"

By the burnin' pages of Revelation and the quakin' butts of Benedictine monks, I can't wait to see the centerfold!

Goofy Qs for Harlan and Susan:

Where did you get your itty bitty peppermill?

Does your favorite Hungarian restaurant (please repeat the name) in Ghirardelli Square serve finely-ground kolbasz? How about angyalos bogoros? Not sure about the spelling of that last one, but it translates roughly to "angel penis." It's a hand-rolled potato-based noodle sauteed in breadcrumbs and butter. Like most Hungarian foods, it's REALLY great for your arteries.

(didn't want to bug you at home for this, but would really appreciate answers)

Thanks!
Amy

Distributing Copyrighted Material
How may something so obviously, utterly wrong, seem so right?

I wonder if IRC is still capable of sending Word files.

The fact is, at the time, I was so in love with that author (despite being warned by same, in unrelated email, not to delve) that when the entrancing new tale was discovered at last, it seemed only natural to share it with true believers. However, the feeling of inherent wrongness soon crept in as well, even as the heart and soul of the tale was converted to voltage differential and spectrum.

How can equilibrium ever be restored to such ignomy?

(12:18)

Frank Gorshin/Susan's Face

Sorry to read about Frank Gorshin - saw him on Broadway a couple of years ago in GRACIE AND ME, a one-man show about George Burns. I think I was the youngest in the audience at 41. He did an excellent impersonation of Burns.

I also remember the claymation short from the '90s which featured three Kirk Douglases in a newspaper office - all voiced by Gorshin! A wonderful entertainer and a fine actor.

And Susan - what & why a 'lasered face'? And speaking of your face, I hope your right eye is back to normal now!

thanks
Rob E.

Scary
Lee,

Yes, I agree with you about semantics. But haven't we seen, even here, riled emotions at words tossed candidly?

I do think it hurts the US image to report on this abuse, and does nothing to engender goodwill toward us in the birthplace and cradle of civilization. But I don't think reporting facts is wrong. Democracy depends on the electorate being as informed as possible, the better to make decisions in the voting booth. Obviously, you can't have Democracy in a vacuum. Everyone sees the dirty laundry. Newsweek is not responsible for those deaths during the riots. In each case, someone was responsible for it, directly. Be it a police office who got hot, or a fellow rioter who trampled his fellow, or the wayward restless vengeful spirit of Kitty Genovese exacting justice on men who abuse women. (was that xenophobic, or what?)

Ed,

The events cataloged by the NY Times, while tragic, still speak of exceptions. I'd measure the US record of human rights abuses against any of the records of any of our adversaries over the past 200 years, and find us the gentler jailer. There is still work to be done, however. Those soldiers found guilty of abuse of power should be locked up, with the key flushed down a particularly hairy pipe.

Steve Evil,

I do get your point. Understand it well, I do. (hehe). But I don't think people should be forgiven for being obtuse. The world is a small place, with many different peoples, holding many different beliefs. Tolerance is the new name of the game, because genocide is out.

Steve Dooner,

Been meaning to reply to your earlier post. I have actually seen the list you mention, but I'll be damned if I can find it either, and I'm fairly good at this Internet-thingy. I can even name 5 other Internet search tools besides Google!

Susan and Harlan,

I see. You wait until the last minute to give your latest stalker info about you're next appearance. Damn you both. I can't make it. (Good luck with the laser, Susan! Are you finally having that HE tattoo removed?)

-Keith

Okay, it's a bit nuts to get worked up about the desecration of a handful of copies of a widely-reproduced, widely-disseminated book.

But it's amazingly stupid to harp on this one particular point, at the expense of the greater, more IMPORTANT point: that the United States engages in torture. Either we do, or we ship the victims to proxies who are guaranteed to perform torture. _Newsweek_ didn't source a story properly; big deal, considering the stuff they _did_ sourse properly, and the even _worse_ stuff that's come out of other places.

I mean, what are we supposed to think? "Sure, we sicced dogs on naked men and women, we forced them to perform sodomy, we beat them and deprived them of sleep, we treated them like animals... but hey, one thing we did _not_ do was flush their Korans down the toilet?"

Ugh.

Heinous? This speaks for itself:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/20/international/asia/20abuse.html

So what are you going to do about it?

hmmm


so Pornopolitik would be: Saddam Hussein's anus?


I am VERY sorry,

Neal

Crap, did I post that? I meant geopolitik. Brain fart. Crap.

The Difference
Folks, here's the difference between an honest analysis of global reapolitik and cheap tabloid journalism.

An honest analysis: Saddam Hussein's heinous.

Cheap Tabloid Journalism: Saddam Hussein's Hanes.

chickenshit media

If I remember correctly, somebody asked Harlan here recently if he was familiar with Greg Palast, a hell-raising leftist journalist based in Britain, who has a fine piece on this very subject today:

http://www.gregpalast.com/

Hey Keith,

I can sort of see your point; I find it hard to get worked up over a piece of paper as well. However, you've got to remember these people don't see it quite the same way. For them, it's not just a piece of paper with the word of God written on it, it is THE word of God, made tangible, the subject of worship. To desecrate it is to desecrate the word of God.

None of us are very religous here. To us it might seem overblown, certainly not worth violence. But for really religous people, for whom it's reality and not just abstraction, it's a very serious matter. Not just for Muslims, but for Religous folk in general. I mean if you desecrated a crucifix in front of a devout Catholic, or ripped up a Bible in front of an Evangelical Christian, they'd react very badly as well. Ditto the Star Spangled banner.

I don't think it's so much whether the reaction was warranted, as that it shows a deliberate contempt for that belief system. It sure doesn't help attitudes that the West is at war with Islam. For Muslims, it appears as an attack on their religion, and the response is to counter-attack. And if the incident hadn't come so soon after the bombing and occupation of two Muslim countries,it would probably have gone unnoticed. I doubt it would have gotten violent.

I love how the media retracts any story the Pentagon doesn't like.

There's my political post for the day.

Keith,

The Koran is just a symbol, as "nigger" is just a word.

These are troubled times, when disrespect can lead to killing and general mayhem. It's important to focus on the practicalities of the situation and save the abstractions for later. We have crushed the old Iraq, and don't know how to build a new one. Thousands of our people are dying over there, beside tens of thousands of Iraqis. We need to act in ways that bring about an end to conflict, and neither flushing the Koran, nor reporting the act does anything to bring that about.

Flushing the Qur'an
I know this could be one of those hot button topics, but does anyone want to discuss this? I'm conflicted by my liberalistic outlook on life and politics.

Harlan is quite anti-pc (and, funny enough, anti-PC), and that's how I'm tying this into Webderland.

On one hand, I believe we should treat people with respect and dignity. I think flushing someone's holy book down a toilet (or even sitting it on the toilet), is a disrespectful act. However, on the other hand, fuck that. It's just a book, just like the Bible, the Bagivadgita, and the Torah. In this, it is also like the US flag. A symbol of a higher ideal. It is NOT the ideal itself, which can exist only in us.

So if a bunch of people get their panties in a wad over this type of thing, so be it.

Incidentally, I think the larger story here is Newsweek's pussy-move of retracting this story, because the information was gleaned from a suddely "untrustworthy" anonymous administration source, when there have been many OFFICIAL reports from the Red Cross alleging the same behavior at Gitmo.

Thoughts?

-Keith

Infoman,
She didn't say it was Harlan's birthday party. I suppose it could be but I think his birthday's on the 27th.

Cindy


Amy,
I think Kevin Kirby was being friendly.
:)
Cindy


Kevin,
Go buy two more books by said author and donate them to your local library. THEN say two Hail Marys and four Our Fathers
( I'm protestant) and don't do that again.

I like your smile.
:)
Cindy


Hiya Neal.
;)

Stan,
I was in love with Frank Gorshin when I was five. I share your sentiments.

Cindy

Ancient Math Texts Deciphered
Wow – new (ancient) work from Archimedes comes to light!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/sv/20050520/tc_siliconvalley/_www11686887

-- Jon

FRANK GORSHIN
A great impressionist, if not a great actor died yesterday...Frank Gorshin had that ability to either love the guy or hate him in whatever acting job he has done. Though it was a hokey grade Z picture..INVASION OF THE SAUCERMEN... you know...the vein-extruding balloon headed monsters with the alcohol laden finger tips...well---to me his performance in the movie especially in the bar scene was a foretaste of greater things to come for this versatile actor, comedian, impressionist. He also did perfect impressions of KIRK DOUGLAS.

To you Frank...may you play to a standing ovation in the part of Heaven reserved for actor/comedians and impressionists.

What the hell? When did Enigmacons start up again? And how'd they get *that* big in terms of guest list?

A bit of background; as noted on the website's "About Us", Enigma was founded by UNC-Chapel Hill alum, Robert Hurt, who'd been active in the UNC-CH sf club, Chimera. Well, I was the founder of what eventually got named Chimera, and in fact I turned the club over to freshfaced frosh Robert Hurt when I was briefly back on campus the start of the fall semester after I'd left.

Later, when I moved out to LA myself, I learned of Enigma and Robert's involvement and became probably the only, at the time, non-UCLA-student members. I was also the eminence gris behind the first Enigmacon due to having had con organizing experience, and still have the t-shirts.

Susan, Harlan, please give any of the old-timers my regards. I'd go down myself for this, save that I'm already committed as a program participant for Baycon and there are folk coming in for that con who are expecting me to be there (not so much as a program participant, but just as friends).

The HE Birthday Party and Face Lasering
SUSAN: How the hell did you get Harlan to agree to a birthday party?!? (At a convention, no less!!) And why would one (voluntarily) let another take a laser to one's face? (All I can think of is bad, SF b-movies with guys or aliens getting their faces shot to hell by laser guns).
Yours in lack of information and incredulity,
the Man.

Gaiman's post on Sheckley indicated that there was a need for money to get him out of the Ukraine and back home. If anyone hears about a place to send donations, please post the contact info here in the Pavilion.

HARLAN ELLISON SIGNING -- LOS ANGELES
HARLAN TO APPEAR AT ENIGMACON 2005
ON SATURDAY MAY 28TH AT THE UCLA CAMPUS.

HE APPEARANCE TIMES:

1pm - 2pm Birthday Party
2pm - 3:30pm "Telling A Story In The 21st Century" Panel.
4pm - 5pm Signing

Registration is free, but donations are asked for to help support WorldTrust.org's efforts to rebuild after the tsunami in Sri Lanka. To register, and for more information go to:
www.enigmacon.org. Registration on the day will be at the Bruin Plaza. Please check the website for updates and changes.


Note: I picked the day before the convention to have my face lasered (CLEVER OF ME) please don't scream at the pulsating human blob. You may point and laugh. --SE

Distributing copyrighted material
Wow. You offer the defense of "(I) asked them to delete it" (which ALL sites offering bootleg material do) and "they bought the book afterwards," but is there really a question in your mind as to whether or not your initial action was correct?

Short answer: You were wrong.

I don't care HOW hard it is to find a particular work. Unless you have permission from the author or his/her estate, you've got no business using their work that way. I wanted to introduce a friend of mine to Harlan's work. Know what I did? I bought him a book. The fact that both of your people "bought the book" indicates that perhaps it wasn't all that difficult to find in the first place.

Just my opinion, since you asked.

Was the "smile" meant to imply you were being a wiseass or being friendly? I wasn't quite sure.

The AOL Precedent
Hi anyone, who may be out there.

Reading over the website, I noticed that the AOL e-book matter was (not too recently) settled.

I'm wondering about a similar case, several years ago, in which I agreed to electronically transfer (over IRC) the entire contents of a hard-to-find short story (not by Ellison) to two remote individuals. Does there exist any opinion as to the appearance of such a story exchange? Even though I asked the recipients to please delete the story after reading it, and they did buy the book itself afterwards, there still remains in my mind the question of whether I should attempt to compensate the author for any transgression that may have occurred.

:)

Important Robert Sheckley update


on Neil Gaiman's website


www.neilgaiman.com

regards,

Neal

Damn you, Barkley! Now I have to get my Bester books out when I have so much else on the plate.

No, no, I'll enjoy it. "The Demolished Man" was the first SF novel I ever read in close to a single sitting. I can do it again. For Alfie.

Hey, you adapt the screenplay and I'll do the storyboards. How about that?

And are there plans to do anything like "DREAM CORRIDOR" again? I just found them in my collection and realised how much I missed comics like that. And the wealth of talent was extraordinary.

JH

Sorry I can't help you Steve Dooner, but I did come across this choice morsel at "creation scientist" William Dembski's website. He is commenting about the recent fun in Kansas and the lack of official scientific participation.

"I therefore await the day when the hearings are not voluntary but involve subpoenas that compel evolutionists to be deposed and interrogated at length on their views. There are ways for this to happen, and the wheels are in motion (e.g., Congressional hearings over the teaching of biology in federally funded high schools for military kids). For such hearings to have the desired effect, however, will require that evolutionists be asked the right questions.

What I propose, then, is a strategy for interrogating the Darwinists to, as it were, squeeze the truth out of them..."

I laughed at this until I began to actually think about it.

Gorshin
Not true about Gorshin; he evidently has another couple of performances already in the can, including some voice work for an animated film.

Hey, fellow skeptics, I need help . . .
I read a recent quote on evolution that had an enormous list of all the indivdual branches of science that have independently corroborated evolution (eg: Genetics, Physics, Geology, Cladistics, Systematics, Paleontology, Biochemistry, etc.). The list went on long enough for it to be humorous, and I would enjoy sharing it in my classes as a lighthearted way to communcate with students who have no idea about the integral importance of The Theory of Evolution in scientific inquiry.

Did anyone else here read it?

Steve Dooner

Just a note for Frank Gorshin fans: his final tv performance will be in CSI's season finale tonight.

D.

Star Wars Report: OK, IT'S OVER!
Well, it's 2:41 am EDT and I'm back from seeing Revenge of the Sith. A very, VERY satisfying end (or middle, depending on your point of view) of the Star Wars films.

And now it's time to put the toys away and move on...anyone up for an adaptation of The Man in The High Castle or The Demolished Man? I'm ready...

Chris B.

UTLEY:

Belay that last order. I got the number.

he

One of the great added joys of the recent DVD release of all the Ed Sullivan shows that featured the Beatles, was the inclusion of a Frank Gorshin segment that is still fresh and funny fourtysomething years on.

Mark W.

It's getting positively MOROSE around here
.

Frank Gorshin R.I.P.
...although I'm sure it didn't escape most of the crew, I thought it worth mentioning. I loved the guy's impression work.

be well,
John

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/arts/AP-Obit-Gorshin.html?pagewanted=print

Thanks, Duane!

Duane typed: Dear Big Grammar: " -... / -.-- / - / . / -- / ."!

Duane, - .... .- - / .-- .- ... / ... --- / --. --- -.. -.. .- -- -. . -.. / ..-. ..- -. -. -.-- --..-- / --- -. -.-. . / .. / ..-. --- ..- -. -.. / .- / -- --- .-. ... . / -.-. --- -.. . / - .-. .- -. ... .-.. .- - --- .-. .-.-.-

Nice work.

And while we're speaking of Grammar... KELSEY Grammer has signed to play "Beast" in the third X-men movie.

Speaking of grammar,

How cool is it that at least one person (Harlan) gets how ubiquitous the "." is to the entire internet revolution, something the grammar gurus over at Webster.Inc (hereafter known as "Big Grammar" don't seem to understand.

The internet lives by the "." The internet dies by the "."

So why in the hell is the "official" spelling of e.mail....
e"-"mail?

A "-"? For hell's sake, what significance does the "-" have for anybody who swims around in this electronic medium? I mean, what are we working with here? Morse code?

Dear Big Grammar: " -... / -.-- / - / . / -- / ."!

.-.-.-

HEY, UTLEY!!!!!

If you've still got my phone number, call me and give me YOUR new phone number for my TLDV file. If you've lost my number, send an e.mail to Rick Wyatt, Galactic Webmaster, conveying your new phone contact in Smyrna.

Yr. pal, Harlan

A Brief Word about "Star Wars"
Okay, I loved the movie when it came out, but I also knew it was pretty empty as far as science fiction was concerned. I dug the techie aspects, the set design, the sense that Lucas was trying to give his Flash Gordon story the material depth of, say, Tolkien. (In other words, the sense that a ray gun or a spaceship had a _reason_ for being wat it was.)

And this was before I read Harlan's discussion of the _Star Wars_ tsunami-- the piece about how Darth Vader sucks eggs. Which I'll probably reread tonight when I get home.

So it's fun to read the piece at Salon, http://www.salon.com/ent/movies/feature/2005/05/18/force/index.html, where their staffers write about when they discovered that the Lucas movies were pretty much bullshit.

Lost Art of Journalism
Mr. Berman, et al -
I aggree with your lament on the loss of Poetic Journalism, but it doesn't stop there. I'm very much lamenting the death of the old "4th Estate" demi-neutrality of journalists everywhere. Gone, apparently, are the days in which a journalist simply reported the event in an interesting way without the need to editorialize/slant the piece. A little political bent here and there was always expected, but with the rise of such politicized self-important news sources as Fox News, USA Today and ... well, Newsweek ... we no longer have significant sources of independent journalism where the reader can arrive at their OWN conclusions on a story. I'm afraid the pressure of ratings and revenues have made thoughtful journalists, the likes of Cronkite, Severeid and Brinkley, very much a thing of the past.

As a grad of ye olde USC School of Journalism, where I learned the art of copy using something called a "stylebook" (evidently no longer in use), I am saddened by the state of the industry and the ease at which it is manipulated. Whoudda thought, at this late date, Rolling Stone would have become a neutral leading source of my world view???

Harlan, at least that's one good thing (among many bad) that the internet's done. I can read the International Herald Tribune online whenever I want...


Nim

There's a positive review of Eisner's The Plot: The Secret History of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion in this past weekend's Financial Times. "...the volume of information still makes the book a demanding read...an intriguing book, masterfully drawn."

A.J. BERMAN'S QUESTION FOR RICK
OY! EVEN _I_ UNDERSTOOD the writing in "Link to More Specific Rules" in the header above your posting, Alex -- and I have a bit of dyslexia. I double-checked and it _isn't_ in fine print. If you get into writing as a full-time gig, better be careful -- _those_ contracts have rules that'll come back to bite ya in the keister (or is it kiester?).

Forgot two things.
(Rick, is there a policy on self-piggybacked posts? If they annoy you, I for one will stop--as I know I do this often.)

I meant to say, after that catalog of duties--I'll never sleep again.

Also, HARLAN, something has been preying on my mind for a while; a question you can perhaps answer, with your experience with newspapers and magazines:

Where has poetic journalism gone? I mean, I well understand the necessity of Who, What, Where, When, but I have to wonder where the lyricism has gone in the realm of newsprint. Outside of the openings and closings of the investigative newspaper-magazine "Portrait of a Child"-type stories, I just don't see a sense of rhythm and style anywhere outside of the sports pages.
Even columnists and op-edders seem to eschew a Royko-like sense of beats and cadence and effect for straight-ahead "here's what I think" articles.

As my own style is very much that of style and effect, this just makes me wonder. Any thoughts on this?

HARLAN: Great indeed to hear about Mr. Sheckley. Do let him know that he has devotees in abundance pulling for him.
(and I'd love to see him get well and gift us with more books about, say, Hob Draconian ...)

BOB: I love Neal Adams. Love his art, love his politics, love his passion.
Hate his ideas about science, but hey; you can't have everything.

CLIFF: Man, what I'd give to have been at that table.

No; I take it back--as long as I'm giving the moon and the stars, I'd give them to have Will back and still working. As, I'd warrant, would we all.


ALL: Yeah; my presence here has been kinda thin on the ground lately. I still read everything here and a great deal of the stuff in the Forum, but things, they do be fraught.

Press secretary-ing, organizing committes, organizing petitions, helping to organize media-event/politician-attended rallies, column-writing, doing business trips for trainings, conducting grievances--all with the implied promise of even MORE duties and responsibilities in the future. Plus, all this is in addition to my full duties at work.

But it's worth it. As Robbie Robertson wrote for The Band, "I work for the union ... 'cause she's so good to me ..."
("King Harvest [Will Surely Come]", if you didn't ken it.)

Okay, so we have a large number of pictures from Dragon*Con, but no names. Other than Ellison, I don't know who they are. Any chance of the names being added?

Harlan story at
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/masters/

DragonCon 2004 Pictures
Official pictures are up and the first few are some of Harlan...

http://www.dragoncon.org/photos04/guests/index.htm

Harlan, here's a terrific Neal Adams interview you and everyone else might enjoy:

http://www.comicfoundry.com/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=100

ain't the kinda place to raise your kids...
But it is weirdly beautiful. Go here and take a virtual stroll.


http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050517.html

Mr. Ellison,

I do a lot of travelling - by which I mean driving (see http://farnorthracing.com to see why) and I buy a lot of audiobooks to pass the time. You keep showing up as a performer in all these short story compilations (Arthur C Clarke, Orson Scott Card) plus I have a collection of your own works, and you are by far my favourite storyteller. I love the fact that you use your vocal range to bring the stories to life (**slurp** TER-MITES! **slurp**) and your reading of "Laugh Track" is my all-time favorite reading of any story by any author.

So thank you for that.

DG

TO JOHN PACER

Good to know you got it. Just re-color what's there. The apostrophe-s was just "conveniencespeak." Plz add nothing new, just refurbish what was originally on-the-button.

Let me know what I owe you. And, thanks again.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Harlan: I received your button today. Do not worry as it looks like it will be a rather easy task. I was surprised by how small it was. I had assumed it was larger and that I could easily stencil it. Instead I'll have to actually do it by hand, which is no problem. I just have to actually concentrate now, heh heh. All I gotta do is go to MickeyDee's and buy a soda or something to get a reference for the actual colour of those golden arches.

I did have a question about the text, though. You referred to the button as saying "McShit's" when actually it says "McShit." There's no apostrophe "s." I'm wondering if you want me to put an apostrophe "s" or just retouch what's there.

- John

Harlan - I'm certain you would counsel me on the need for a thorough archive... I'm glad it's found a happy home within your walls, and I hope Susan enjoys it. And if you have any other gaps, send word and I'll have Burbank set the agents in motion... I got resources...

Also, I'm still finalizing details on the Lookofsky disc, and will let you know when the levee breaks.

SEX BOOKS OF THE 60's
MUST BE TIME FOR PAPERBACK NOSTALGIA, what with Hardcase publishing doing original paperback novels (by guys like Stephen King) and these two articles (which mention Harlan Ellison) popping up in the media ether:

http://www.villagevoice.com/nyclife/0517,takefive,63488,15.html

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/05/25/books-cotner.php

A NOTE TO MR. STEVEN UTLEY

Mr. Utley.

Sir.

Your book received.

Ahem.

You may hereafter consider me as one umbraged to the Pimsoll line with outrage. Lesser little auctorial shits were sought out to commend your works in ebullient aass-kissing; and even that ex-Texican expatriate bint Tuttle has her snoot in the mix. But I -- chum of your cradle year -- the man who held your head while you vomited up the narcotic poisons of a youth misspent -- who championed you to the Feds and the IRS -- am IIIIIII asked to contribute an encomium to Utley?!?!!!!!

No,in thunder!

How come you do me like you do do do, how come you do me like you do?

Ratbastard.

Bereftedly yourn, the remains of the writer formerly known as

Good Ole Harlan (sob!)

Was up in Seattle last week, and stopped by the Science Fiction Museum. Don't recall if it'd been mentioned hereabouts, but Harlan's first typewriter, with a facisimile of the first manuscript page of Glowworm in it, is fairly prominently displayed. And the info plaque for the helmet worn in Soldier specifies that it and Demon With A Glass Hand inspired Terminator. Along with the it being the model for the helmet worn by Robin Williams as Mork.

Which, although I didn't know it at the time, was annoying, since I learned this morning that Robin Williams showed up at our weekly company meeting last Friday and spoke/performed for a few minutes. Which I missed, due to being in Seattle. Would've loved to have heard it; I certainly enjoyed his bit at the quite a while back Harlan Roast, and recall reading an interview with him in the late '90s that showed that he really understood the Internet before most non-tech types had any idea about it (OK, not the technical underpinnings, but the implications).

While I am basically one with Brian Siano on the matter of STAR TREK and STAR WARS, I suspect that many people would have got wherever they were going to get without help from Gene Roddenberry or George Lucas. Consider (heh heh): http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4119

Simply Put...
Yay.

MR. HILLIARD:

The envelope for Melinda Snodgrass reached me today. It has been readdressed for forwarding, and has been reposted to her.

DOUG LANE:

What an un expected bit of largesse; what an unexpected dollop of yesterday; what a startling gift. It arrived today. Susan has never seen it and she is simply faunching to imbibe the long-lost broadcast. As again, as always, you amaze and delight, my friend.

TO ALL:

Got word from bedside at Kiev, Sheckly is breathing on his own, and the wailing cum lamentations may have been premature. He continues, defying all the odds, as a secret agent against death.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Just wanted to clarify Lab Rat Lenny's post -- the article by Marc S. Williams refers to Orson Scott Card's recent essay on the death of the "Star Trek" franchise, in which Card criticizes the original "Star Trek" series for failing to tap the talent available at the time. Card represents that talent with a list of ten "excellent" authors of the day, including Niven, Aldiss, Moorcock, and, listed first among Card's ten, Ellison. The article does strongly (and in Ellison's case erroneously) imply, without stating outright, that none of these ten contributed to "Star Trek"; however, Ellison's primary placement in this list doesn't really indicate any critical judgment on Card's part of Ellison's superiority. The Williams-penned rebuttal does make it sound like Card has ranked Ellison "first on his list of important authors" in general, as though Card had drafted one of those fundamentally preposterous "best-ever" lists and crowned Ellison king. I think this is an unintentional ambiguity on Williams', and Lenny's, part.

While it's clear Card admires Ellison's writing; and while I am no expert on Card; and while Ellison appears (most enjoyably, by the way) on the audiobook of _Ender's Game_, perhaps indicating that the respect is mutual; and while lots of other things also are true; nonetheless I do seriously doubt that, were Card to draft such a list, Ellison would top it. It _could_ happen -- but it hasn't.

Just so's nobody gets confused.

Hey, Doug!

Well, rats. Harlan took you up on it. Could you please point me in the right direction so I can order a copy?

And a very belated "thank you" for mentioning the Robin Williams interview on Audible. For some reason, a search for "Harlan Ellison" does NOT bring up those selections. What a great combination of personalities! I had to dig out my Lenny Bruce albums after listening to them discuss "The Palladium." It's one of my favorite bits, too.

Thanks for your help!
Amy

I feel like I need a really powerful hot shower. I don't mean to bust on Lab Rat Lenny-- but do we really need another testimonial on how much SF owes to things like _Star Trek_ or _Star Wars_? Yes, both are ending their existence in the national media (although the merchandising goes on), and yes, lots of fans and creators were hit by these at an impressionable age. But do we really need so wade so _much_ in these sugary memoirs?

Like I said, I feel like I need a shower-- a really powerful hot shower, where all of that glucose gets stingneedled out of my pores, and I don't have to worry about any unscrubbed residue turning rancid and attracting ants. A really _astringent_ shower.

We've all read the testimonials from people about how Lucas or Roddenberry's product made them an SF fan. But there's an obvious question here: what would they have become if they hadn't encountered it? If _Star Wars_ had never come into being, would legions of modern geeks have stuck with normal, non-fantasy-oriented entertainments? Of course not: they would have glommed onto something else. Maybe they would have chosen something _better_. Maybe a lot of pallid product wouldn't have clogged the culture afterwards.

Harlan Ellison, whom Card ranks first on his list of important au
Salt Lake Tribune

Science fiction fans (and authors) owe debt to 'Star Trek'
by Marc S. Williams

http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/ci_2735808

"Star Trek" is criticized for not using science-fiction writers of the time. In fact, first-rate writers such as Theodore Sturgeon, Robert Bloch and Norman Spinrad wrote episodes. Harlan Ellison, whom Card ranks first on his list of important authors, also contributed an episode ("City on the Edge of Forever").

DOUG:

Like discovering a mythical long-lost papyrus from the Great Library of Alexandria. Do I want it?

Honey, deed ah doooooooo!!!!

Yr. pal, Harlan

Harlan - about 300 years ago, you hipped us in this venue to Harry Lookofsky's album "Stringsville". Through one of those wonderful series of searching daisy-chains, I found myself exchanging e-mails with Harry's widow Sherry yesterday; she was mentioned at the end of an article about the album by violinist Jon Rose as having "Stringsville" available from her, on request, along with her e-mal address.

Of course, I requested; it appears that a planned 2001 reissue of the album by Koch Jazz never happened, and opportunity seldom beats on the front door so loudly. But the article mentioned Harry's FIRST record as well, on Epic from 1954 - a four song EP by the Harry Lookofsky Strings entitled "Miracle In Strings", with Harry on three violins and two violas, Billy Taylor on Piano, Oscar Pettiford on cello and bass, and Charlie Smith on drums, all lovingly arranged by Quincy Jones. Mrs. Lookofsky says the disc she's offering contains both "Stringsville" and the earlier EP.

I've ordered a pair; the second one is earmarked for you if you want it, owing to the fact that you may not have known about the EP or even have heard it. Let me know if you'd like it and when it comes in, I'll send it your way (if the Post Office cooperates - did the package with the tape and the photo CD ever arrive?) - otherwise, I'd wager there are enough jazz fans in these parts that someone will give it a home.

Harlan Ellison wrote what is considered to be the single best epi
Commentary:
“Star Trek” will never die
by
STEPHEN SEITZ

http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=54700

Harlan Ellison wrote what is considered to be the single best episode, “The City on the Edge of Forever.”

Highest praise possible for little old me


Jeez Harlan, thanks. And thanks to your lovely wife Susan as well. It's so flattering to hear such kind things from someone with such a refined taste in literature. Susan I meant. haha

As good as it felt to be complimented by Unca Harlan, it was even better to hear that Robert Sheckley seems to be recovering.

And thanks to all of you who had such nice things to say.

A-TC I sent you email, i bet it looked like spam. It's the one where I describe my penis. I guess it does look kind of like spam...

respectfully,
neal

Hi Cindy.

That's why you're Superman, JON ;)
Yeah. And if I recall, Shatner got his in that one, too.

How's the Night Life on Cissalda?

Cheers, Jon

Streisand
There's another Streisand death in Ellison's work, and dammit, I can't recall the title. The very funny story about aliens who come down and start making love to humanity.

re the HE interview book: I'm picking up the subject in the Bulletin Board under "General".

Heads Up : Don Diego de la Vega's Alter-Ego ...

From Neil Gaiman's Journal at : http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp

posted by Neil Gaiman 5/14/2005 12:21:00 a.m.
Collectors of Lisa Snellings' author rats will be delighted to hear that Harlan Ellison (as Zorro) joins Poe, Lovecraft, and some other author in the set. There's a picture of the Gang of Four here.) (And Lisa's rat-shop is here, but Harlan's not up there yet.)

the Gang of Four URL : http://www.lisasnellings.com/blogger/gang_of_four_lg.jpg

the rat-shop URL : http://www.lisasnellings.com/ratbag.html

Cheers,

Dougie.

David,

The story in which Streisand is swallowed by the earth is "Ecowareness." You'll find it in THE ESSENTIAL ELLISON and in APPROACHING OBLIVION.

The only thing I recall about the effect of one of HE's stories being read to a disturbed patient, though, was included in the intro to the new edition of PAINGOD; believe the story was "Lonelyache," and I don't believe there was any mention of Streisand.

Bests,

--tr

TV Alert: If you all get c-span2 (Book TV), Bradbury will be on Sunday at noon: 12:00 pm 2005 Los Angeles Times Festival of Books: Ray Bradbury

That WAS choice Neal- I enjoyed it and I needed it.

Thanks and thanks,
Cindy


Rich,
I left you a message on the Valerie thread. In it I apologize profusely for my bad behavior and the bullshit remark I made about the purse.

Check it out-- I'm sorry.

Sincerely,
Cindy

Crash
Adam-Troy: I'm going to get an email together in response to your question. I'll have to go into some detail and I don't want to fling spoilers all over the board. But I'm glad you're familiar with MAGNOLIA. That will make life much easier.

eating leftover chocolate ruggeleh (so evil, but so good),
Amy

David Loftus --

Thanks so much for your kind reply. I really didn't know any of this before. I have a Kismet recording which belongs to my husband -- I want to say Alfred Drake was the lead singer on the recording. I'll have to pull it out -- I think, but am not sure -- it may be the original Broadway recording. I also didn't realize that Harlan Ellison had performed with a "young Barbra Streisand." Streisand, who has a commanding voice, has never been one of my favorites -- I am always disconcerted by the large gasps for breath she takes between musical phrases and her lack of subtlety with a lyric.

Again, I very much appreciated your kind attention and response!

Kate

Luck? Whats that?
Neal, you are suuuch a literary genius.....

Tuesday, I happened upon fine woolen dress pants in a thrift store for $7 and $9 (Talbots and Banana Republic brand, Italian made stuff!) the better for job hunting/work but I still haven't found a real job. (Anyone in the Bay Area: Seeking admin/clerical part time. email me if you know who's hiring.) Is that luck?

but that was Tuesday, not Friday. I still can't get my Real Audio musicstore to let me log in for downloading.

IIRC the Exploratorium musuem in San Francisco is running an exhibit debunking superstitions. They mentioned it on the local NPR outlet this morning. (Well I was only half awake, so I'd have to check to make sure.)

Ahh, Lab Rat Lenny...you HAVE read Harlan's introduction to CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER (his script) ???? The real story behind that and many other things complete with reproduction of Harlan's "Committee" letter.

Music wise : my own father is close to Harlan's age (just turned 72) and LESS into rock music. Mom gave him the DVDs of the Leonard Bernstein CONCERTS FOR YOUNG PEOPLE, said to be an excellent crash course in classical music appreciation. Not that *he* needs it - it's more nostalgia.

Harlan, is there anything you haven't done? (lol)

Thanks everyone for the film recommendations. I'll probably go see HITCHHIKER'S GUIDE TO THE GALAXY first though, being fluff headed (G) ...also I want to go before the local multiplexes get taken over by the Star Wars fans. CRASH I expect to see on DVD eventually; we rent one every week since my brother works at a Hollywood Video store.

Kristin

Kristin

various and sundry, as usual

Duane:

Yes, got his "just deserts" always applies . . . unless you were to speak of the rare situation where the person was demanding a full, multi-course meal and got -- well, you know.


Kate:

Harlan seems to have missed your question, and nobody else has jumped in, so here's what little I know. He sang in small clubs in New York for a while -- I'm guessing in the mid or late 1950s -- and once shared a bill with young Barbra Streisand. I seem to recall reading an Ellison intro or interview where he complains that she hogged the entire tips jar for the night, so he got his revenge later in a story with a brief mention of her dying violently and hitting a high note as the world is destroyed. (Maybe someone can recall the story title as well as the book intro where Ellison talks about the effect a reading of the story had on a mentally disturbed person by a caretaker who knew the Streisand anecdote, whereupon the patient spilled his/her guts about a terrible wrong carried about inside for years.)

Ellison was also in the chorus of the original Broadway production of "Kismet" (source of the song "Stranger in Paradise," which like much of the rest of the music, was based on compositions of Borodin). You can hear him singing "Marsinah, buy from me" in the bazaar scene.

I don't know whether he particularly sang the blues, but I believe he knew a lot of blues and jazz artists in the 1950s.


Jan:

Bill Gauthier beat me to it, but yes, there are at least TWO collections of Stephen King interviews out there -- in hardcover, no less! I've read 'em both. I'm not particularly a King fan (I've read maybe half a dozen of his novels), but for some reason I enjoy reading interviews with the man. He sounds like a great guy -- much more fun to hang out with, share a brewski, than the average popular writer.

But you took the words out of my mouth: I would LOVE to edit a collection of Ellison interviews. I've collected quite a few over the years (including one brief one I did myself in 1984), although I'm sure Barney and Tim have more.

No question there's a wealth of material to choose from, and it would make better reading than the vast majority of interview collections that have been published. The challenge would be to convince a publisher that it's worth it. There aren't as many readers out there who know of Ellison as would recognize the name of King, let alone pay for a book collection.

You're caught between the rock of a small publisher that would jump at the chance but would have trouble marketing the product/getting the word out far and wide, versus the hard place of a large and reputable publisher who possibly would and could do so but might not consider the investment worthwhile. . . .

Robert Sheckley
Bob is getting stronger day by day. Today he breathed on his own for
over 2 hours and talked to me, Anya, Simon and the doctors with his
own voice. The doctors today dare to make predictions. So they told us
they will try to switch his breathing to his own completely in 5 days.
In 5 days Bob will have enough power to stand up and make little
walks. The doctors also have found some serious problems with his
heart. But we hope not that really serious. Bob must say good bye to
cigarettes

Rusty Aardvarks
Neal: yes, a masterpiece of a rant. Bravo!

Amy: Was very impressed by CRASH and dunno how come your own impressions so badly deteriorated after the fact. Am interested in hearing elucidations.

Harlan Saves Star Trek!
Damn It Jim! The Show’s Over
by John Stith at
http://www.webpronews.com/business/topbusiness/wpn-54-20050513DamnItJimTheShowsOver.html

"A letter writing campaign led by science fiction giant Harlan Ellison kept the show alive after the first season."

NEAL JOHNSON:

Very very very VERY funny.

Genuinely, protracted giggling, shared with Susan who also giggled, cute and funny and clever and apropos to cheer us at the end of a long, tough week F U N N EEEEEEEEE, funny.

Thank you.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Oh, my god, czech the colander!!
It's Friday the 13th!!

it's friday the thirteenth.

i'm going to break my foot, or lose my wallet, or fall
in the river and drown, or just fall in the river and
ruin my clothes, or accidentally cook the cat, or get
clawed by the cat on my way to the pan, or i will win
the lottery which will cause the sun to go immediately
nova-which would be really bad luck for everyone not
just me, or the toilet will overflow repeatedly with a
full load of stuff, or big buxom bartender jodi will
reveal her frightening breasts to me, or there will be
a snake or a mouse or a shrew or a vole in the coffee
can (i refuse to open the coffee can for 24 hours),or
someone with gross greasy fur-covered lips will have a
heart attack in front of my house and i will have to
perform mouth-to-mouth(bullshit, that fucker is dead),
or i'll accidentally pour fluid all over my beautiful
copy of "bloodsucking fiends" by christopher moore, or
my delivery from amazon.com will
arrive, wet, with something that smells suspiciously
like post office employee urine, or-while we're on the subject of bad things happening to
my books-something really bad will simultaneously happen to all my
books while i watch and die a slow
illiterate death, or stumpy the dumb outside cat will get spontaneous explosive colitis and ruin my deck with a great deal of fanfare,or i will get the phone call that
everyone dreads ("hi, it's mom, i'm at the
airport"...*CLICK*), or graycat will use my favorite
soundgarden disc as homeplate or toilet paper or a
barfbag or hairball container or worse, or i will run
out of gas oil or patience, or i will get a ticket for
driving while crying in grief over my lost soundgarden
disc christopher moore book or cat scratches, or a
mafia hitman will mistake me for a mark and that will
be that, or i'll spill my beer....

but that's ok. 'cause i still have unca harlan. yes i
do.

happy friday every........ugh.........

respectfully,
neal

Ah yes
Whenever I think of the term "class act", it's behavior like that - coming in and taking a cheap shot, unprovoked and long after the bell has rung - that really defines it for me.

I have to second Adam-Troy's enjoyment of CRASH (not to be confused with one of David Cronenberg's weaker efforts). This is a super movie that will quickly be forced out of the multiplex by the summer blast from Hollywood. I would liken it to MAGNOLIA and GRAND CANYON, two of my favorite movies from the '90s.

What puts this film over the top for me is the clever screenwriting: this could have been a morbid, turgid movie driving home a point that is not actually original, but Haggis' has blended in a robust sense of humor that surprises at times.

And yes, Bullock shines in her few scenes.

-TODD

>In reviewing my posts I realized I never actually said what has been in my heart for the last week <

No, you were too busy misreading my own post about Sheckley, calling me a jackass, and then not bothering to apologize or acknowledge your mistake.

A class act as always: Barney Dannelke.

Harlan, read your interview with Meth about your solution to the problem in the Middle East and loved your solution, and this coming from a full blooded Lebanese. But, you know, couldn't you exclude Lebanon next time you tell the story? We're really a great bunch of folks. We'll have you in for coffee in our stores... before we attempt to overcharge you. Well, um, we really get along with each other, well, uh, except that time in 1860 when the Druze massacred the Maronites, the Maronites massacred the Druze, and the Melkites were defending against everyone else. But, no, really, things have improved, except for that little incident in the 1950's when Eisenhower had to send the Marines in. Ok, truly, in these modern days, we REALLY are getting along with each other, well, except for the murder of Hariri and the bomb last week in Jounieh that killed a resident and injured many others. *sigh*. Ok, nevermind. Bottle up the whole neighborhood.

Frankie, Baby!

In answer to your plaintive posting: We wuv you THIS much.

Now siddown, shuddup and order.

Chuck

Frank--a little to the left; you're off your mark.

D.

OK - 3 people came through with phone and e-mail info so I can pass this along to Delany and my friends family before leaving tomorrow. Thanks to everyone. - B.

Just Deserts
I want to make sure I understand this:

When something bad happens to a bad person (or a person who did a bad thing), would we write that the person received his "just deserts?" If so, is this in all cases?

I thought I knew everything about English grammar before I read that post today. Turns out I have a lot to learn. Or relearn.

I bet nobody here missed me at all. My heart is as pained as a hyena's.

Love bites.

contact info request
If anybody has a way of contacting Samuel R. Delany by phone or e-mail - a good friend of his is in the hospital right now. Nobody anyone here knows, just someone Samuel did scholarly type stuff with in the 1970's and '80's. I'm quite certain he would want to know about this old friends condition.

My gmail is at the top. Cell phone is 610-657-5886. Worst kept secret on the net. I'll be in the Poconos from Tomorrow night until Sunday afternoon with no e-mail, thus the phone info.

In reviewing my posts I realized I never actually said what has been in my heart for the last week or so along with everybody elase, namely that I'm also pulling for Bob Sheckley. Never had the pleasure but his books occupy the good bookcases on the 3rd floor and not the boxes in the basement where bad Daw paperbacks languish in obscurity. So if Our Pal, Harlan manages to sneak a message behind the rusty Iron Curtain, add my name to the legion of boosters.

- Barney

COLLEEN:

Thanks, but I don't need it.

he

REPLY TO SCOTT BRIGGS OF KEW GARDENS

Sir:

I am not now, nor have I EVER been an "enemy" of rock'n'roll.

I was listening to it, sonnyboy, when it was nicely termed "race records." I KNEW Alan Freed and Ole Doc Lemon and half a dozen other deejays who were playing the sides to opprobrium and the screams of antichrist from lovers of Patti Page BEFORE YOU WERE BORN. Thus, the way you posit your message is bullshit and offensive. You ASSUME you know what my attitudes are, without the knowledge to inform such opinions. But when it comes to rock, child, kindly do not presume to teach your dear old Granny how to suck eggs.

Until you can sing along with me, the lyrics to "Miss Petunia" by Day, Dusk & Dawn, don't be calling me an "enemy" of ANY goddam variety of music.

I loathe hip-hop and rap and heavy metal, but I also want nothing to do with opera. I have my predilections, and you have yours. Do not sidle like the hyena, sidewise, to the position that just because someone doesn't share your particular likes and dislikes, that they are an "enemy" of ANYthing.

I do so hate how you wanderers come bopping along with sparse and sillyass flotsam of opinion, and posit it as Obiter Dictum.

As for classical music, though I find Glass more a bore than a pleasure, does my having spent the entire day today listening to the original piano recordings of Lecuona playing his own music from 1929 till he died, does that count as sufficient to remove me from the Enemies List of classical music?

Awaiting your salty riposte, I remain,

Yr. pal, Harlan

ADAM-TROY: I saw CRASH last Saturday, and I saw the same connection to Altman and P.T. Anderson. Sandra Bullock (whom I dislike intensely) gave a shockingly fine performance as an upper-class racist. I always enjoy Don Cheadle’s work, even when he can’t quite hold onto a cockney accent, as in “Ocean’s Eleven.” My initial response to the movie was much like yours, and I remain pleased that there’s at least one movie in wide release that involves using a few brain cells.

But I’m curious, and please let me know via email, if you maintain this enthusiasm after discussing the movie in depth. It didn’t hold up for me. When I first left the movie, I felt it was a solid 7 (out of 10), which represents the lowest number for a film that I would watch again. After dinner and conversation, it dropped to a 5. And if forced to an “X out of five” scale, it would be a two. I know; my math is fucked. I’m interested in hearing if it still works for you once you get past the initial "wow" stage.

Still, it was nice to go to a movie and end up having a conversation that didn’t involve special effects.

HARLAN: The package is heading out tonight, Express Mail.

Amy (and thank you for the update on Robert Sheckley…the news seems to have deserted him.)

Sheckley Update
E-mail, quoted online by Ellen Datlow.

Thursday May 12 2005 @ 11:07AM BST
Anya Sheckley writes from Kiev:

Dad gets just a little better each day, though I expect it will be many weeks before he will be able to fly home. Still unable to breathe on his own for more than a few minutes and still very weak. I can feel his frustration in wanting to talk and not being able and wanting to write but being too weak to hold the pen.

(adam again) here's hoping his improvement continues.

Unrelated tidbit, disgracefully presented in the same post as these life-and-death issues only because that's the forum I have: I just returned from the motion picture CRASH, starring Don Cheadle, Brendan Fraser, Sandra Bullock, Jennifer Esposito, Matt Dillon, and others, and must report that it's that rarity: a literate American film of substantial sensitivity, and raw emotional power, about life as it is actually lived on this planet. It belongs to the SHORT CUTS / MAGNOLIA / Robert Altman genre threading multiple characters of different races and socioeconomic backgrounds, and watching as they collide in surprising, disturbing, and sometimes uplifting ways. Simply terrific film, and worth catching before the CGI-fest starts.

CLIFF METH'S INTERVIEW WITH ELLISON
CLIFF: I plan to use Harlan's last line after every waiting room discussion or barroom debate with strangers in the near future. Great interview. 'Nuff said.

Best wishes from the "Information Highway,"
the Man.

Harlan mentioned in Star Trek essay
To Harlan:
The local paper published an essay by Orson Scott Card about the demise of Star Trek. You and several other writers are mentioned in the article. Would you like a copy of the essay?
Note: If you do, do you want the entire paper or just the section that contained the essay?
Mahalo,
Colleen

Condescending Language
Brian -
You post reminds me of the last minute change of titles on Timothy Dalton's second foray into the James Bond franchise. Originally entitled "License Revoked", it was changed to "License To Kill" when the studio's "tests" that showed Americans wouldn't understand the word revoked...

Nim

Some nice words from Christopher Hitchens about The Right Word:

Stop Smiling: You've written on a number of occasions, but never explained entirely, that you write in a somewhat posthumous manner.

Christopher Hitchens: Yes. Write as if it's your last words. Because then you can be sure that you don't wonder, “Will the agent like this? Will my publisher say, 'Well, couldn't we punch it up a bit more or make it more fancy?' What will my family think?” All the things that constrain people.

SS: Does that work as a deterrent to your being edited?

CH: Yes. It does, I think. Because people would judge you a lot more if they think, “Well, he won't do [this or that].” They'll say, “Don't use the word 'Promethean.'” Actually, that happened recently. I used the word “Promethean” and the [magazine editors] said, “Take that out because people won't know what Promethean means.” I said, “Maybe they won't. I'll cut it out if you give me another synonym for it. You give the words that would stand in for it and I'll change it.” “There doesn't seem to be one,” they said. “No, there isn't, is there?” You either know what “Promethean” means or you don't. If you do, it saves you about 50 words. And if you don't, then you can look it up! So I said, “No. I'm going to keep it, because it's an important word and it's actually not condescending to Americans in the least. You have to condescend far more by finding the 50-word substitute. No, I won't change it. Fuck you. And I don't mean to publish in your magazine, either, for that matter.”

I'm reading this review, and I happen to remember – I forget what the review was of – but they mentioned Tolstoy. This sentence said, “This is reminiscent of the 19th Century Russian novelist Count Leo Tolstoy.” Now, clearly, the author [of the review] had not written this. But someone had thought, “Not all our readers know who Tolstoy is. We better tell them.” This is ridiculous! If you don't know who he is, that doesn't tell you any more than what you don't know.

http://stopsmilingonline.com/archive_detail.html?id1=325

Bulwer-Lytton & S.P.I.D.E.R 14 info
Attn: David Loftus

Not to be a pedant or anything, but somebody's gotta do it right?

"It was a dark and stormy night; the rain fell in torrents--except at occasional intervals, when it was checked by a violent gust of wind which swept up the streets (for it is in London that our scene lies), rattling along the housetops, and fiercely agitating the scanty flame of the lamps that struggled against the darkness."

--Edward George Bulwer-Lytton, Paul Clifford (1830)


Attn: those of you quivering with anticipation for the next SPIDER post

I have to go out of town on some family business so I plan to post my contribution to the SPIDER discussion, number 14, right before I walk out the door this evening. If you have a copy of the recently reprinted STRANGE WINE you are ready to go.

Keith Cramer


I laughed at your indian joke and so did my ladyfriend.



Now someone else should tell one. a joke i mean.

Regards,
Neal

Chris,
"...I hate to cry on everyone's collective shoulders here but if anyone here can help me out (off the board, of course), please email me..."

Help you with what? As Bill said, you seemed to have things under control. You solved the (apparent) problem. What exactly did you want from us? Acknowledgement? Advice? Confirmation that you did the right thing?
You did do the right thing. Now go enjoy the rest of your winnings.

No response? No problem!
Chris,

It happens to me all the time. There are many posts that come up here, it happens. When something is TRULY important, though, the folks here at Webderland will usually have SOMETHING to say. Usually. Don't sweat it. You seemed to have things under control.

Take care,
Bill

Chris,
I am sorry that I did not see your post. I would have responded.

Please don't take it for the norm in these parts.

I'll do better next time,
Cindy

Hey, Well, Thanks For Listening...
When I last posted here, I was in a dilemma; an aquaintence of mine had allegedly ripped off a waitress the morning after I had, threoough an incredible stroke of luck, placed a $10 bet on Kentucky Derby winner Giacomo...and had asked for ANYONE out there for some advice on how to proceed.

No one responded.

Well, it turns out to be a moot point; unbeknownst to me, the aquaintence had handed to tip directly to the waitress when my back was turned which is why it was not on the table when I passed by and looked into the window.

As for the waitress in question, who apparrently collected a second tip from me after I had asked if a tip was left on the table (and had responded no) susequently remembered that she HAD gotten teh tip from the aquaintence away from her station after all...I'm just disappointed no one responded, that's all.

Chris M. Barkley

Finder:

Thanks for the iTunes heads-up.

Nonfinder

rather obscure musical question for Harlan
Been a while since I've visited Webderland but
if I'd realized you were jumping into the fray, Harlan,
I'd have returned sooner. I've been a fan of yours
for many years but one thing I always took umbrage at
was that you were apparently an enemy of rock and roll
and/or "new wave" music, pop, etc. or so I was led to
believe; I'm somewhat more eclectic in my musical tastes
these days but still love my rock and roll, but I digress...
the past ten years I had gotten seriously into new classical
composers such as John Cage, Morton Feldman, Stefan Wolpe,
Iannis Xenakis, Luigi Nono, and others. I was wondering
if you were also a classical fan, and if you find any
of the modern composers of worth? Say, from Stravinsky
and/or Schoenberg onwards? I especially recommend
Morton Feldman to you if you haven't heard his works,
you can really zen out and write to his music, I've done
it a lot, and find it the perfect meditational music to
relax to but also to LISTEN to as well. Xenakis in
particular you must LISTEN to, it commands one's attention
since his works are more "confrontational" yet not "loud."
I know you are a serious music fan if not a rock and roll
fan, so was just curious if you had any fondness for these
nutty modernist classical dudes! Some posts over the
last few weeks mentioning music suggested my question.
I also found out that Morton Feldman grew up right here
in Woodhaven, Queens, NY, which pretty much blew my mind.
They also summered in the Rockaways back when the
Rockaways were like, swingin (they ain't now, alas).

cheers,
Scott Briggs
NYC

Critic John Simon No Longer With "New York" Magazine
Harlan, I'm sure you're already aware of this, but for everyone else...

http://www.playbill.com/news/article/92861.html

John Ivan Simon, 79, is a critic of unassailable credentials, and one whom Harlan Ellison has mentioned time and again in his own writing. Harlan's mentions of this critic's work introduced me to Mr. Simon and led me to his many books of witty, sharply pointed criticism, and to his essential collection of essays on language, "Paradigms Lost" - a book I cannot recommend highly enough to those of you who wish to write, or to use English effectively.

In 1997 I reviewed Thomas Pynchon's "Mason & Dixon" for the Dayton Voice Newspaper, and a copy of my review somehow found it's way into John Simon's hands. He rewarded my meager efforts with a handwritten letter to me, complimenting me on my writing and suggesting prestigious markets I might be interested in approaching.

The letter caused a smirk or two among my left-leaning editors at the paper, to be sure, but it put me squarely on top of the world and was a validation I desperately needed at the time.

Mr. Simon's voice will be missed in the pages of "New York".

Speaking of essays re: signings
Most of you have probably already seen this, but just in case:

http://www.villagevoice.com/news/0417,essay,52969,1.html

Here's a link to an essay on book signings by Lawrence Block.


Bests to all,

--tr

Musical Essay
Speaking of music ...

I moved in August, 2004. I finally started re-opening my Ellison Collection boxes yesterday. In one that hadn't been open since I moved in November 2000 I rediscovered Musical Heritage Review, Vol.10, No.2, 1986, Release 362, page 6, "He Speaks, And The Angels Sing" by Harlan Ellison.

Benny Goodman was the subject ...

and it made me smile.

A question for Mr. Ellison. I hope this isn't inappropriate to ask -- and if it is, just ignore the question.

After reading your remarks to Cookie about music and especially your remarks about the correct pronunciation of words when singing, I was just wondering what your thoughts were with regard to Frank Sinatra. Not as a person, but as a performer. I admit to being a Sinatra fan, especially of the Capitol recording years. I'd be very interested in your thoughts about his music.

Also, while I've read many of your essays, I never realized until recently that you also did some singing. I heard a very tiny bit of your singing on the Twilight Zone dvds when you did some commentary on one of the episodes. Did you sing the blues professionally?

And while this may sound sophmoric, I'd like to just tell you that I greatly enjoy your stories and essays. You've given me a lot to think about!

Harlan's Essay About Autograph Hounds
HARLAN: I'm not nuhdzing you (I think I spelled it right) about the completion of the project -- cause as everyone knows, it'll be done when it's done -- but did you get a lot of responses from other writers regarding your planned essay on autograph hounds?
Yours in the pursuit of information,
the Man.

Harlan's birthday
Well Harlan....come Friday the 27th you will have reached 71 years of age. For a good thirty seven years I have watched and read...even got your autograph once in Eugene, Oregon in the mid Seventies...you have come a long way baby! The only thing that disappoints me...is that Hollywood has chose to ignore your genius in the field of screenwriting. Maybe someday, someone who remembers your writing of I, ROBOT, will indeed be made...you and I may never see it happen, but it looks like that is the way with genius. Van Gogh died a pauper yet his paintings are worth millions...you have the comfort of not being a pauper like Vincent and whether the powers-that-be want to admit it...you and others in the new wave movement of science fiction have done historical change in the area of sf with radical, exorcising and complete literary surgery in cutting out the two dimensional characters created by so many writers in the thirties and forties...and giving us three dimensional and powerful storylines that make us all think.

I thank you Mr. Ellison, though politically we differ....I hold you in high regard for introducing me to your kind of sf writing
because it was you who spurred me kicking and screaming into the arena of science fiction writing.

Stan Blumenthal
slbcommunications@hotmail.com

Harlan on iTunes
I don't recall a mention of it previously - if so, please disregard - but Harlan appears in current downloads available from the iTunes music store (all files provided by Audible.com):

- The Best of Fantasy and Science Fiction Magazine 2002 (Unabridged) (Reading "Never Send To Know For Whom The Lettuce Wilts" - part of the full 7 hour download)

- Both parts of Robin Williams' Audible.com interview with Harlan from 2000

In addition, 33 segments of 2000x are also available - can't swear or promise that any/all of Harlan's intros/outros are intact; up until right now, I didn't know more than a couple were available for download.

Dearly beloved:
Harlan is featured at "Tough Questions for Tough Jews"
http://chazarmaveth.blogspot.com/

You gotta love it when your local library has their annual booksale. Yesterday, I picked up two Zelazny first editions, a Poul Anderson novel, a Lawrence Block paperback and _Roberts Rules of Order_ illustrated by Will Eisner.

Our pal Steve Dooner is currently reviving his acclaimed role as Nathan Detroit in a local production of _Guys and Dolls_ here on the south shore. Wish all folks here in the Webderland could see him on stage, he is damn good.

Mark W.

Keith:

The joke was only so-so, but your delivery really made it!

Charlie:

Bulwer-Lytton, as my reference to my grandmother should have made clear, tended to write BIG novels, and is best known today as the source of the phrase "It was a dark and stormy night" (although I have no idea which of his books it is from), and therefore his name has been honorarily applied to that annual "really awful writing" contest.

Is this thing on?

Harlan told a joke at the WHC about an old Indian. The joke was about a 70 on the funny-ometer (out of a possible 100), but Harlan's execution of it was fantastic fun, a definite 100.

So, since it's fucking dead here, here's MY Indian joke, which I've been telling for a week or two.

Cowboy and Indian meet down by a watering hole. The Indian is leading a horse, a sheep, and a dog to the water.

Cowboy throws up his hand and says, "How, Chief."

The Indian nods.

Cowboy says, "Mind if I talk to your horse?"

Indian looks at the cowboy cockeyed, and says, "Horse no talk, white man."

The coyboy ignores him and says to the horse, "So, horsey. How's this here Indian treat ya? Okay? You happy?"

And much to the Indian's surprise, the horse says, "I'm happy. This Indian doesn't ride me too hard, I always have enough food, and he lets me run in the meadow most of the day."

The Indian is dumbfounded. The cowboy says, "So Chief, mind if I talk to your dog?"

The Indian, still looking confused, says, "Dog no talk."

The cowboy ignores him and addresses the dog, "So doggie. How's this Indian treat you? You happy?"

And again, the unthinkable happens. The dog says, "Yeah, this Indian treats me great. I never go hungry, he plays with me and he's a good companion."

The cowboy nods knowingly and the Indian is just blown away. He's looking from his horse to his dog, mouth open.

And the cowboy says, "So, Chief, mind if I talk to your sheep?"

And the Indian says, "Sheep liar."

-Keith

You have got to see this. The kicker is the very last line in the article.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/05/10/jesus.lawsuit.ap/index.html

The Oscar
Just a quick post, that there is a CD released of the Soundtrack to THE OSCAR. I have no details if it contains dialogue from the film. Retail price is 12.95 I assume it is a virtual copy of the original released on Coulumbia.

HARLAN:

New book by Isabel Allende, "ZORRO: A Novel". Thought you would be interested.

Best,
Ray Carlson

Yo David, Bulwer-Lytton! Now there's a name that rings a bell. My Great(x3) Uncle was Sir Henry Bulwer's(brother to the writer) dragoman in the 1850's in Rumania, Smyrna, and Constantinople. Have copies of some of their correspondence. Henry wrote a 2 volume bio on Lord Palmerston, if I'm not mistaken. Thanks for jogging that memory.

Apologies for 2nd post in one day ...
- but I spazzed and pasted in the wrong link for the Asimov/Bin Laden item:

http://books.guardian.co.uk/review/story/0,12084,779530,00.html

Regarding the Sheckley update from Tass that Alex forwarded:

> reports alleging that Sheckley had lost his medical insurance police

Yeah, it's hard to keep track of those guys, especially in former Soviet bloc nations!

(I don't mean to speak lightly of Sheckley's condition with this moment of levity; I hope he pulls through and gets a few more good years, as much as anyone. Just couldn't help poking fun at a foreign typo.)

And as for "deserts" . . . dang, I KNEW that. My beloved grandmother who grew up a monster book reader in frontier Fairbanks, Alaska -- where the town library closed after the first snow and you were allowed to take out as many books for the winter as you could carry, so Grandmother dragged all the big ones (Dickens, Trollope, Bulwer-Lytton) home in a blanket -- taught me that one! Why didn't I catch it the other day?

Here's today's breathtaking wackiness - the "link" between Isaac Asimov and Osama Bin Laden:

http://www.tass.ru/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2006896&PageNum=0

Sheckley, Bowers, general depression....
A slightly more recent article about Sheckley notes that his relatives are about to arrive at his bedside, and by now probably have.
http://www.tass.ru/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2006896&PageNum=0

Like others here, I've been reflecting on just how much of his work made its way into my life. Lord knows how many novels, and the five-volume "Collected Short Stories" (the last volume has an autographed Ellison introduction). I never realized just how much Sheckley I'd read over the years. I just hope we'll have to opportunity to see more.

I note, also, that Bill Bowers has passed away. I just found out. Bill was a many-times nominee for the fanzine Hugo. His "Double:Bill" and "Outworlds" were important fan publications in their day. Alas, I hadn't spoken to him in many years. I so rarely attend conventions anymore, I just never ran into him. He was a good friend, and a figure in Ohio fandom for many decades. Harlan probably knew him.

Recent news item about Bob Sheckley:

http://www.mosnews.com/news/2005/05/05/sheckleyhospital.shtml

Just popping in...
...to confirm that Don Hilliard is a terrific human being and a dear friend of mine. Harlan, if you and Susan ever meet him, you'll like him.

Sheckley updates
I know it's not a direct Harlan question, but it seems appropriate, considering their long friendship. Can anyone direct me to a place where I can get periodic updates on Sheckley's health?

Harlan,
I didn't get much of a chance to explain myself at WHC, but I'd set up to have him come to the Con on my nickel. He had to bow out at the last minute, which is why I was trying to pass along that message.

Mr. Ellison: Thank you, and thank you. The letter will be in Monday's mail, with appropriately stamped envelopes and a copy for you; if you have any concerns, Tony Isabella has my phone numbers (and of course they're on the letterheads of both copies). If you're in my debt, I'm at least equally in yours.

Apologies for the "neck" comment - but you've been making a far better living with the English language than I ever have, and for all I know you'd be the one guy who'd have the obscure data necessary to prove that "dessert" really WAS the right term. On rereading, though, I think it did come across a bit craven, and I'm sorry.

As to why nobody's ever mentioned it to you before, I think Brian Siano has provided a perfect mirror-image illustration: if I or just about anyone else ever recognized your mistake in print, _in virtually any other context than the way it came up here_, we'd put it down to a typesetter's or proofreader's error. As you say, they sound exactly the same when spoken.

Thanks and regards,
Don Hilliard

Triumph and Trouble...
Hey Gang,

I was having the BEST weekend of my life until a couple of hours ago...

Yesterday, for some inexplicible reason I cannot for the life of me explain or duplicate, I put $10 on an obsucure horse that was named A) after singer Sting's son or B) named after a character from 1956's The Court Jester (with Danny Kaye, Basil Rathbone, Glynis Johns, Mildred Natwick, Cecil Parker, et al...)

Well, I had just about kissed my money goodbye when Giacomo came thundering down the scretch on the outside and WON by half a length! AND paid 102.60 to WIN, the greatest payoff in about 75 years!

Needless to say that on this happy ocassion my wife and a very close aquaintence has been treated to a very nice dinner and breakfast and several treats to boot.

Now all of this has been spoiled...this morning the close aquaintence volunteered to take a tip back to the table for our wonderful waitress and as we were walking to the car I glanced at our table through the window and the tip was NOWHERE TO BE SEEN!

I was shocked but decided to check back with the waitress after I had dropped my wife and the aquaintence off and had gone to work. I stopped at the resturant in question, which is next door to my place of business and sought the waitress out. She did not remember tip being left so I reinbursed her.

I'm so angry, shaken and upset that words fail me... I hate to cry on everyone's collective shoulders here but if anyone here can help me out (off the board, of course), please email me...

Chris Barkley

TO BARNEY
DAVID LOFTUS
& ANYONE ELSE
STRICTLY F.Y.I.:

I have posted a longish entry on process, re: "At the Mouse Circus," on the S.P.I.D.E.R. thread dealing with "Eidolons."

It may intrigue some of you.

Yr. pal, Harlan

----------------------------------------------------------------

JOHN PACER: Button will be mailed out tomorrow. Thanks in advance.

RICK: thanks for sending along John's address.

he

I've been rereading the Patrick O'Brian books again, and I just passed a reference to someone's "deserts." And I figured, great, wonderful, some copy editor screwed up Patrick O'Brian's prose-- and isn't it strange that we were discussing that same issue here, eh? Turned out O'Brian may have been aware of the "deserts/deserves" issue.

Funny how that also comes up alongside of a reference to Horatio Nelson.

As a spin-off from the "just deserts" bit -- has anyone else ever seen or heard "Horatio on/at the bridge" used instead of "Horatius on/at the bridge"? Horatius is correct, but I actually ran across an explanation for the former that suggested it stemmed from Horatio Nelson's death.

Cheers, Jon

P. S. TO MR. HILLIARD

Even old, old dogs can apparently learn new tricks.

You have quite properly corrected me on an error I've been blissfully making for, oh, something like sixty years ... on which error, for some reason, NO ONE TILL YOU, NO ONE TILL NOW, ever upbraided me.

It is, as you say, "just deserts," not "desserts," though the pronunciation is "desserts." Because of HEARING it that way, I made the spelling error. Over and over and over and over...

I am in your debt. Wrong is wrong, and those who properly correct me need never fear they are "sticking their neck out."

Thank you for aiding in my slow, painful, ongoing development.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Mr. Hilliard:

Write your letter to Melinda Snodgrass, put it in an envelope, seal it, and post it, addressing it as follows:

Melinda Snodgrass
c/o Harlan Ellison
HERC
PO Box 55548
Sherman Oaks, CA 91413

And I will repost it to Melinda for you.

he

Interview Books
The editors of the Stephen King interview book BARE BONES did a larger follow-up to it called KINGDOM OF FEAR. Lots of the same ground is covered but there are a few noteworthy interviews in that one as well.

Sticking My Neck Out in Two Different Directions
First, a rare disagreement with Harlan on a point of language: the word really is "deserts", not "desserts", in that context. It refers not to the Gobi but to what someone _deserves_. Cf. _Hamlet_ II.ii: "Use every man after his desert, and who shall 'scape whipping?" (Replace the word in question with "dessert" and we appear to be discussing an S&M orgy after dinner...)

Having now had the temerity to correct the teacher (which got me in no end of trouble in fifth grade, but the twit really _couldn't_ spell), I'm going to put my neck even more firmly on the block by asking a favor of Harlan or anybody here who can help:

Does anyone have a postal, electronic or telephone contact for writer/producer Melinda M. Snodgrass which they would be willing to share privately - or, alternately, be willing to use to pass along a confidential query from me to her?

Let me be as clear as possible: I am not a looney, not a deranged or lovesick fan, not a writer looking for a shortcut to Hollywood or SF stardom, not a process server, an evangelist, a telemarketer nor a Man In Black. I suspect that someone very dear to me, however, is being played (and has been for years) by a person who meets one or more of those descriptives - and Ms. Snodgrass may well have some information which will confirm or deny that suspicion.

It is not, strictly speaking, a matter of life and death - but the information may affect the lives of several people in the near future, one of them a kid.

I don't make this request lightly; the fact that I've been unable to find any contact information in a reasonably intensive search tells me that Ms. Snodgrass is protective of her privacy, and I understand that. If there were any other way to go about this, I'd take it...but this is what I'm down to. I figure that between the owner of this board and those who frequent it - a few of whom know me and/or have corresponded with me in the past - somebody might have the info I need. If you do, please contact me privately.

Thanks,
Don Hilliard

I have had a couple of opportunities to meet Harlan Ellison. For
example, when I was living in Phoenix for eighteen years and a hundred and twenty seven Summers, he was there during the time of
trying to get Arizona to recognize women as something more than
chattle.

I did not take advantage because I didn't want him to be bothered by another idiot. However, some things need to be said and some
people ought to be thanked and so, with this being the only viable venue for me now, I say, Thank you.

I appreciate excellence, courage and the pursuit of doing things
right.

Again, Thank you

Robert Shanahan, Hays, KS

HE interview book?

These days there are quite a few interview books out there, concerning film makers etc. I sure would like to have one on Ellison that includes interviews from various stages of his long career, as well as a few speech and panel transcripts!!! (One writer who I know has an interview book out is Stephen King, it's called BARE BONES.) Since a few of his interviews have caused controversy, critics and readers would take note of such a book, if released. It would not only be of interest only to his readers. I also first became interested in Ellison when I read an interview. Conversations with Ellison tend to focus on different matters each time because in addition to being an author Ellison has also been a valued social commentator and political activist -- a collection of them would surely sustain reader interest. Anyone else like the idea?

The material exists, and an all-new interview could also be added. If I was (geographically and personally) close to Ellison like some of you, I would definitely try to get his permission to contact publishers with the idea and to edit the book, if a publisher is found. I'm assuming, of course, that this hasn't been tried yet. I'm sure such a person would be everyone's favorite here next to Ellison himself and receive all our support.

FCBD

Happy Free Comic Book Day. Going to go grab me some free comics and support my local comics sellers.

-Aaron Teschner

''''''
If we're going to be picayune and focus on trivia in a person's post by way of spicing up a slow news day here on the Pavilion:

Hey Dooner,

No need for apostrophes here:

"Elmer Gantry's, the Hal Lidsay's, the Ken Lehay's and the Pat Robertson's "

Those are pluralizations, not possessives. Just adding an "s" will suffice.

In defense of the apostrophe,
PAB

Adam and Eric...
My last rant was FAR too recent and I haven't really had time to get a good mad on, so I'll just say:
Blah blah blah 24 hrs is not 8 hrs blah blah foam foam read the various expletives rules blah blah gnash gnash gnash blah blah. Blah.

While the misinterpretation of a post is troubling, it's just plain heartening to see how gracious people are in response and comment. Here's a tip: if you don't want to seem like a hypocrite, try not to be a COMPLETE dick when you're pointing out someone was a dick. Go for maybe 20-30% dick as a good rule, spiking to 50 if the situation demands.

Oxyrynchus Does it Again!

By the way, this news about the correct number of the beast comes out of the Oxyrynchus papyri!

It also helps confirm that the "Beast" was Caesar Nero (Nero Kesar or NRV KSR) whose name in Hebrew is also the number 616. Many know that letters were used for numbers in ancient Rome (V=5, X=10). But few know that letters were aso used for numbers in Ancient Hebrew.

The 666 number probably came from an alternate Greek spelling of his his name, Neron Kesar (NRVN KSR), which came out to 666 because the extra "N" added the value of fifty.

Sadly, the hucksters, the buncomb artists, the Elmer Gantry's, the Hal Lidsay's, the Ken Lehay's and the Pat Robertson's will scarcely miss a beat at this momentous news. Nor will the cottage industry of Anti-Christ books, music and movies ever go away until the Enlightenment finally comes to Kansas.

Steve Dooner

Um, thanks Neal, but it's tedious being compared to the rear end twice in a foot of posts.

While Dannelke lives in his own universe, it troubles me that even he would think I was so base as to wish/predict/suggest that a fine man and writer like Sheckley (or anyone, really) was dead.

The Reap is coming for all of us eventually, so I don't make a point of or take pleasure in egging it on. Just because I've locked horns with Harlan, Barney, doesn't make me a bad person.

At least not in the universe where the rest of us live.

In my little plain bible, in the Book of Revelation, the passage giving the Number of the Beast had a footnote that read, "Or, 616".

Whoops.

Chuck

The Wrong Number of the Beast
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/this_britain/story.jsp?story=634679

HARLAN: I was about to ask you about the button. I e-mailed my snail mail address to Rick two weeks ago after you requested I do so. I gave my e-mail the heading "Painting Harlan's button" but maybe he still didn't notice it. I'm still down to do it so I'll just fire off another e-mail to Rick with my address.

-John

Eric Martin


dude, you're like tobasco to me

fiery tongue and flaming asshole all in one

takes a mature palate to appreciate you

and that's a good thing, my man

don't fade away

most respectfully,
neal

Jesus freaking pete.

I said "is or (was)" to reiterate that the poor guy is now in a hospital in god-knows-where Ukraine, obviously unable to do whatever he flew out to accomplish.

Sorry about belaboring this, but:

Barney...you DO have a tendancy to misread intentions. You often misinterpret them, overliteralize them, and then overreact. That's why you and I never got along too well.

Every now and then we all need to re-evaluate our social skills; I've needed to, Eric has obviously needed to, and so do you.

I also read Eric's post the same as Todd, admittedly, after doing a double take...I don't think offense was intended in his post.

Barney, I'm going to have to sneak in and defend Eric on this one. I don't think he was making a comment on Sheckley's current health status with that "What is (or was)" comment, I think he was just getting twisted up in his tenses in regard to asking what the reason was that Sheckley was in the Ukraine.

Saying "What was he doing there?" does not mean he's stating that Sheckley may now have passed on.

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong......but Eric's name on a posting should not immediately result in the assumption that he is being an ass.

-TODD

Eric Martin writes - ... "(or was)"

***Eric*** In case I haven't said it here lately, you really are a jackass.

- Barney Dannelke

Geez, I meant to include an expression of my concern for Sheckley in yesterday's post. It's been something like 15 years since I regaled the good people of Roseburg, Oregon with a reading of one of my favorite Sheckley stories, "Cordle to Onion to Carrot." If I recollect correctly, I made a split-second decision to alter (or omit) a friendly reference to LSD in the story.

Many years later, I saw him up close in a panel discussion with the great LeGuin and Molly Gloss. The two veterans ended up rhapsodizing about the Aubrey-Maturin novels (this was a few years before the movie), which got me off my duff to start reading them.

Various Answers
I'm not entirely confident that this post is within the 24 hour rule, as I posted last a little before midnight. If I make the error I apologize and stress that this response was with misgivings. But --

Eric: he was a guest of honor at a convention in the area. He fell ill during the convention. His illness is news in the area: a distinguished foreign author falling ill while being a guest in the country.

Aaron: Yes, I consider DOWNFALL a masterpiece, and have praised it at length online.

What is (or was) Sheckley doing in the Ukraine?

Mr. Sheckley
A brilliant, underappreciated writer. Crossing fingers.

DAVID HACKWORTH -- RIP
ALL: I second Greg's call to attention of the life and legacy of (Ret) Col. David Hackworth. Whether you agreed with his views at any given moment (which, like those of most intelligent people, could swing left or right), there is no denying that Hack was one of the great soldiers and Truthtellers of his time (always keeping the power-hungry politicians and businessmen, and the miltary brown-nosers, in line with his columns and TV commentary). I had the pleasure of interviewing him about eight year ago for the "Dallas Morning News" and "the Stars & Stripes." I even ended up reviewing his first novel -- which was pretty darn good -- for "Publishers Weekly." Check out his impressive obit at www.hackworth.com

Sadly, yours in information,
the Man.

"clausewitz"

Finally managed to see Downfall. It was like watching a group of people being torn to pieces. Not just one person's destruction, but many. Every character had a definite presence, and the film didn't try too hard to be emotive, the emotion was there in subtext.

Good film, I want to see it again. I knew enough to know how it was going to end, but having read the on the BBC about the one of the nurses of the bunker's characterization of Magda Goebbels's treatment of her children and then seeing it on screen...

As the culture started to tear apart, you saw how a disparate group of people could hold together under a single leader, and how, when the leader weakened, people's personalities grew to fill the void.

Their arguments in the film remind me of a characterization someone made about the German military after the war. Often, soldiers would argue with their superiors openly, the kind of stuff you wouldn't hear about very much over here. I could see how that sort of behavior might have come about, seeing from what chaos they emerged.

Here's a decent article about the nurse:

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,1564,1572696,00.html

Hard to go back to summer's ligher fare after seeing a movie like that.

Hathor:

If you wanted porn, you must have missed the v|@gr@ ad a bit ago.

[]

It's too bad I can't buy an Essential Ellison Supplement rather than buying a whole new tome again. Maybe I can trade the old one in for credit toward the new one or something.

-A

Also Cannot Say Much
Steve: what Harlan said, repeated in mine own voice. Ditto, ditto, and ditto.

Signed,

Disgruntled


(I take from the Sheckley situation a little life lesson, which we're all forced to learn again and again, and which we all forget far too often. You see, when I corresponded with him on a small matter, I valued my dignity too much to be anything but cordial and professional about the contact. I *should* have mentioned that his stories were among the first I read in the field, that his work has delighted me for decades, that I keep his volumes in a prominent place on my shelf, and that his footprints are all over at least a dozen stories of mine. But I felt those thoughts extraneous to the matter at hand. Now I'm likely to never get the chance. Not that this would have been crucial to Sheckley -- he enjoyed plenty of plaudits and wasn't waiting for mine -- but if the chance has indeed passed, I will always regret it. Life lesson: pass along your feelings while you can. And it's not just for my own sake that I hope the medical situation turns, and that such a conversation remains a possibility for a long, long time.)

REPLY TO STEVE RINGGENBERG

Steve: It is inadvisable at present for me to respond to your post. (And it's "desserts," not "deserts" ... one is a pudding, the other is a Gobi.) But, in relation to your comments: I'm not surprised.

Harlan

I feel Harlan's response to Steve Ringgenberg's troubling post would be most enlightening. I have an interest in developing a graphic novel myself, having been in touch with Avatar a year ago.

Just read that Col. David Hackworth died. I'm sure most of you have doubts about folks with Col. attached to their names, but just take a googlewalk through some of the obits. This is one of the few officers from the Vietnam era who had no problem giving Bush + Co. a swift kick in the balls.

Problems with Byron Preiss
Hi, Harlan. Haven't communicated with you in long time. I was just wondering if you ever resolved that nasty situation where Byron Priess was reprinting your work and not paying you. I hope you got your just deserts. See, I worked for Byron for a while back in the mid-80s, even wrote 3 graphic novels for him. Then, when one of them got turned into a miniseries for DC back in 93, I never got a dime. That's right, not one dime for a script that was turned into a two-issue miniseries. As apalling as that sounds, that doesn't sound too far different from the experiences I have heard others having with Preiss.

I am a little surprised that Preiss would play fast and loose with you, someone he professes to admire, and whom you once described as "anal-retentive ethical" in a Comics Journal interview long ago.

Anyway, hope you're well and that you eventually got paid.

Cheers,

Steve Ringgenberg

DAVID: Package arrived. Many thanks.

RICK: Please figger out a way to prevent this ugly spammer of cigarette ads frrom getting in here. Please.

JOHN PACER: I still need my McShit button repainted. No reply from you...should I seek elsewhere?

BARNEY: I found the Sanderson report of mmy comments at Will's memorial pretty offensive, but he's entitled to see it the way he wants to see it. He's probably right, though, that my not using the mike produced the effect I perceived as a dour audience. This is the first I've heard of that onsite problem. Usually, my projection is MORE than sufficient to reach the back of a filled room, and I've done it this way for years. Must've been some peculiarity of the synagogue's configuration. The two points I find interesting in Sanderson's version of what transpired, by their absence in his recounting, are these:

1. If I couldn't be heard, and clearly had no idea people in the back were straining, why didn't someone call out, as I did when Jerry Robinson had the podium? Why, for instance, didn't Mr. Sanderson, in his capacity as "reporter," speak out? Or was it just easier to interpret my actions as those of a "Luddite" for his column?

2. Why didn't he mention that my love of Will Eisner was great enough that I flew 3000 miles--having rearranged my schedule with the World Horror Convention so I could do so--just to pay my respects?

This is the kind of guy who would find ANYTHING, as done by someone he doesn't care for, as reprehensible. You're right: the difference in ways-of-viewing of the same moments, between this guy and Charles Brownstein of the CBLDF, is well, sorta like day and night, to coin a phrase.

On another note...aw geeezus...Sheckley one of my oldest buddies in a fuckin' Ukrainian state hospital with what reads like stone serious congestive heart failure aw goddam...

Thanks, and at the same time, no thanks, Adam-Troy; for passing it along. Crossed fingers, kid.

Sadly sadly, yr. pal, Harlan

Cigarettes in Webderland
What next???? Cheap GUNS 'cause we're not dying FAST enough???? GOOD LORD! (See, PORN would be appreciated, and funny. This is just MEAN!)

the usual melange

Harlan:

Did the package I sent you get there safely?

Monday night's reading went swell. I don't think anyone in the audience had read Calvino (other than Carole, sort of, because I'd read a few of his stories to her before), so I got to introduce them ALL to him. I've gotten roughly the same healthy turnout every month, but rarely the same people. Other than my spouse and the owners, I have only four "fans" who have turned up more than once. Otherwise, it's a revolving mix of friends and strangers.

Keegan and Coogan . . . how cool is THAT?

Robert Sheckley -- crossing fingers
Sf/Fantasy author Robert Sheckley has fallen gravely ill in Russia.


http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2.html?NewsID=2002737&PageNum=0

I've never met the man, and only corresponded with him briefly, once, but I consider him a major influence on my work, and am not taking this well at all. Am crossing fingers.

Ads on Webderland? Wtf?

Duane:

A man after my own heart! Can never get enough of Rush or the Sabs. . . The Cross polinization you mention is fun. There comes a point where a song is a song, whatever one's preferences. I for one love going to parties in a Napalm Death shirt, then breaking out into "Guys and Dolls". Really throws people!

Third and Final Installment

now found here:

http://www.newsarama.com/general/EisnerRemembered3.htm

informationally,
the mite

Will Eisner memorial service links.

http://www.newsarama.com/general/EisnerRemembered1.htm

The Sprit of comics legend Will Eisner.
by Peter Sanderson
April 22, 2005 -

http://comics.ign.com/articles/606/606926p1.html


The Will Eisner Memorial Service II
by Charles Brownstein

http://www.newsarama.com/general/EisnerRemembered2.htm

I'm posting both of these links here out of a sense of completeness but only the Brownstein is really worth the time. In fact a comparative reading of the two is a perfect example of the difference between listening to a Lenny Bruce routine and listening to a pissed off cop reading fragments of the routine that personally offended him into a court record.

Harlan's voice goes off in my head: "So why fucking post it Dannelke? People haven't got enough mean-spirited crap to distract them?"

Because Harlan, if I only post the Brownstein, 10 minutes later, somebody - out of a similar sense of completeness - posts it and maybe reaps the whirlwind, and , in the words of Twain, "I've been here before."

In each case, Harlan's remarks may be found about halfway down the piece. Scott McClouds remarks in the Brownstein are worth checking out as well.

- Barney

Big Miller
There's a nice little bio and albums for sale here:
http://www.cmt.com/artists/az/big_miller/albums.jhtml
They have 30 second cuts from each track on the album. Great sound. Check it out.

Cookie--moolah for the CD is on the way. How could I resist?

Cookie
Cookie -
Very much looking forward to hearing your music. I'll be sending you an email to get one of your disks. In addition to recording and gigging my wife operates a cd design and duplication company in OC, so I might want to put the two of you in touch...

Please watch for my email.

Nim

CookieCoogan.com

Cookie, where is your website? url please!!

Thanks,

Neal

Well, after several weeks of cowardly hemming and hawwing, I finally got down to reading Harlan's THE DEATHBIRD.

Now that I have, I'm going to have to read the son-of-a-bitch again before I can fully articulate my deranged thoughts. I've just been brain-fried, Harlan-style.

Harlan--
Thank you for taking the time to listen to my disc. I'm very glad you found something to enjoy there!

I will get your number from Rick and give you a call at some point. I know that you know this music very well and I think you would have some very valuable feedback to offer.

Thanks also to those other Webderland folks who've bought the disc and enjoy it. I greatly appreciate it. All I can really say is, "Aw, shucks!!" and turn a bit pink.

Others who might be interested: Caveat emptor. This is li'l homemade product. It isn't a perfect disc or anything. There are tuning issues in spots and there are certainly artistic gestures that I would take back if I could. Then again, it's only the first one I've ever attempted, I didn't have a lot of guidance and barely a clue, but I surely did learn alot from it. Still, I think my band alone is worth the price of admission, especially my pianist. He's *really* the star of the disc, IMO.

Anyway, enough on that. Harlan, thanks again. Listening to music takes time and I really appreciate the fact that you spent some of your time on my music.

PS: the MP3s on my website are all original compositions and like Duane (?) said, very simple (these are just me playing and singing the songs themselves so there is no real development by a band or through arrangement. These are just the tunes themselves). If you visit my page, you will find them under "Musical Services." If you enjoy anything there, you may feel free to keep 'em in any form that works for ya.

Thanks again, folks.

Harlan: I *have* heard *of* Big Miller, but have not actually heard the music. The other on your list that I do NOT know is Frank D'Rone. I've heard the name but never any recordings.

I like other singers (of course) but most of the time, I like to listen to instrumental jazz. Shorter is one of my favorites. I love his approach to melody as it weds to harmony. I love his tone, and I love his use of space. His music breathes! Now that I know he bounced PeeWee one night, my respect for him has grown even deeper!

Sci-fi Hall of Fame honors nearing liftoff
Go here to read a mention of Harlan in The Seattle Times:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/artsentertainment/2002260532_scifi03.html

GREAT MUSIC and AOTHER FUN TV SHOW
DUANE, STEVE (and any others not yet in the know): Cookie Coogan is Webderland's own Jazz beauty -- vocally and physically. Go to her site at www.cookiecoogan.com and buy her CD (I did). Her voice and stylings are the jinkiest. You'll dig it, I guarantee.
ALL: Even though the season finale is Tuesday next week, check out "Veronica Mars" on UPN. I kept seeing great reviews various papers and magazines and thinking, yeah, yeah. Then I caught the last half of a show three weeks ago. Wow. I made a point to tape the show the past two weeks. Grrrreat show: writing, acting, plot, EVERYTHING. I like it as much as "Lost," "Desperate Housewives" and "Grey's Anatomy" (the other three shows for which I make some time).

Yours in informatio & opinion,
The Man.

Hey Cookie,

I found your website and listened to the song samples. They are very elegant in their simplicity.

I find that as I grow older I gain a profound appreciation for "my father's music." As I was growing up I would try to drown out his Sinatra with my Sabbath. What a surprise it was for my dad a few years back when I showed him my remastered cd copy of "Sinatra At The Sands," one of his favorite albums. And the irony was palpable when I introduced him to Johnny Cash's Def American recordings produced by Rick Rubin. We had a good laugh about that one as we listened to Johnny's cover of Nine Inch Nails' "Hurt." Such generational cross pollination was beyond my limited brain even a decade ago.

He doesn't quite get the awe-inspiring majesty of my Sabbath, Rush or (for that matter) Smashing Pumpkins and Depeche Mode collections, but progress is being made.

****

Here's my thought on AI: It's a game show. End of thought.

Sincerely,

Duane "My favorite Gilligan's Island episode was the one where no one thought to 'get with' Ginger or Mary Ann" Waite

I sure miss Frederick Clark's Cinefantastique magazine. Fantasy films lost the only perceptive commentary they had when he died and his magazine was taken over by 20 something advertising men. Won't be the same again. Unless Harlan resuscitates his Watching column...

Cookie's Tones (and then some)
Harlan -
You've piqued my interest. Who is Cookie? I'm married to a very talented jazz vocalist my own little self and we're always seeking out new singers to follow.

Steve Barber aka Nim

...By Night He Is Simon Cowell

"The ones on which you gave in even the slightest to the kind of multiple-syllable-when-it-should-be-a-single-word affectations heard weekly on that awful AMERICAN IDOL abbatoir(sic)."

ABATTOIR, as in SLAUGHTERHOUSE!!

I like calling it, "talent in the dark sanctuary of INCAPACITY"; the very justifications for Simon's blunt honesty with the contestants.

The horrendous songs aside, I actually got pulled into AI last year (and what little I had time to catch this season) - not because of my interest in who might win (because majority of the performances are mired in mimicry and cliches, the thing Cowell vilifies most) - but because, frankly, I admired the process: setting real and very gruelling yardsticks for talent, and inching your way up the grade. I saw in Cowell's wiseass mouth a sort of stark honesty (in Harlan's words, "don't quit your day job") - a message to those who want to compete in an industry that it is a tough world, and you are up against the odds in a jungle of talent and a packed market. I found empathy. I guess, in my own dizzying ambitions, I respect this "yardstick", and therefore take my endeavors - the meticulous process they demand - EXTREMELY seriously.

The guy who made me understand this is...HE. Not because he ever offered ME any critique or advice about my work ('cause he wouldn't even look at it, the bastard!), but because of the tough counseling and admonishment he gave many wannabes (whether or not they had any legitimate talent).

As if borrowing from Harlan, Cowell slams mediocrity before millions of viewers (even though as a record exec, he has packaged plenty of mediocrity himself; ok...well, I'm partial to Brits - so I let 'em get away wit' this shit).

In short, I saw a metaphor in AMERICAN IDOL (I simply walk around and do things while the performers do their wretched songs, unless I want to study the judges' expressions, then return to watch the crits). AI has a message if you look for it; because of this, I think it is one of the more constructive shows in what has become just about the biggest wasteland in tv I've ever seen.

**Cookie, I had no idea you were into this. I hope you can take your talent places.

Well, by a Limey's accent, lunch time's over!

Harlan on Will Eisner
Sorry if this has already been posted, but here are Harlan's comments at the April 7th Will Eisner Memorial:

http://www.newsarama.com/general/EisnerRemembered2.htm

-TODD

COOKIN' WITH COOKIE

Yo, Cooks:

More specific process, style and timbre comments should only be between ourselves, I figger; and if you ever want same from yr. grateful pal, get my phone number from Rick and we can chat, mano a pastry (so to speak).

But since there are others listening in, let me say this for all the world to hear:

You got some good chops there, sistah.

Resonances of Ella, of course, particularly with the scatting. And June Christy and Chris Connor and Jackie&Roy and even a smidge of Blossom Dearie. Mark Murphy is in there, and Frank D'Rone, and Joe Williams, but not Rushing, and not Witherspoon, even though you lamped one of his standards.

My favorite track? I think it's got to be the one you wrote, the elegy to Susannah. It had, to my taste, more of what I'd call "uninfluenced Cookie" than the others. My least? The ones on which you gave in even the slightest to the kind of multiple-syllable-when-it-should-be-a-single-word affectations heard weekly on that awful AMERICAN IDOL abbatoir. The word is "I" not "ah." It's IIIIIIIIII love you, not ah luwvw yoooo.

Having made a living singing precisely the kind of tunes you reprise on this album, I was very pleasantly rewarded by your takes on most of the numbers...even though some of the riffs were a bit more hommage to the originals than I'd have liked when I wanted more Cookieherself.

More, much more; but not here.

Just wanted to thank you for the gift, both the actual object, and the pleasure of your voice.

Now. You may know Big Bill and Howlin' Wolf, and B.B. and Jimmy Rushing and 'Spoon ... but have you ever heard, or heard OF, Big Miller? Might be, if I get the spare moment, yr. pal might have a gift-right-back-atcha.

Sincerely, from a man who actually saw Wayne Shorter and two other guys physically lift PeeWee Marquette and toss his midget black ass out the front entrance of Birdland onto a midnight Manhattan sidewalk,

Yr. pal, Harlan

Harlan mentions
For those of you who DON'T get the automatic Google notices:

Seattle Times, regarding Skiffy Hall of Fame
http://tinyurl.com/9n9kj

Itty bitty mention in an Orson Scott Card commentary about the death of Star Trek (L.A. Times)
http://tinyurl.com/cma9r

That's it for now!

Hi, Harlan. I'm here.

Wayne Barlowe Aliens on TV!
The Discover Channel website has a page for a CGI "documentary" called Alien Planet. It's based on the Wayne Barlowe book Expedition. It airs May 14 at 8PM.
http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/alienplanet/splash.html
Dare we hope for a documentary about Medea?

Piece of asbestos lodged in brainpan - small itch
***Harlan*** Doug and I were comparing who had which of your television shows on VHS. Man From U.N.C.L.E.'s, Flying Nun, etc. and I had mentioned RIPCORD [or Doug did] and I said WHIRLEYBIRDS. This didn't sound right to Doug - and to be fair, the last season of WHIRLEYBIRDS aired a year or more before you hit town. Now I know RIPCORD is the same people as did W-Birds, mostly, but I still have it stuck in my head that you had something to do with WHIRLEYBIRDS. Now I know I have this wonderful ability to get it 85% right - like my forgetting the 1st appearance of EIDOLONS was in that Aussie chapbook thingee, for which I blame the SLIPPAGE copyright page, by the way - but I usually get these things stuck in my head for some goddamned reason. SO, is there, was there ever, a connection between you and the long defunct WHIRLEYBIRDS - which I watched in re-run as a child along with SEAHUNT and FLIPPER while eating cocoa-wheats and generally being lulled into submission by the shitpipe.

AND for anybody else, ***UNLESS*** you have a Route 66 or Burke's Law to trade, do not ask me to dub anything for you. My plate is very full and I am trying to cut down. Except for Keith and Phil. Those packages are "in the mail", right?

- Barney

COOKIE

Are you out there? Plz check in. I finally got around to listening to the CD. Wouldst comment. Smallishly.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Harlan - A package is finally in the mail to you and Susan as of today. The USPS says it should be there Wednesday.

Of course, they didn't specify WHICH Wednesday...

1965 Nebulae
Thanks, Dougie!

In the speech, Neil noted:

> And if you're wondering, the 1965 Nebula Winners were,
> Novel: Dune by Frank Herbert
> Novella: "He Who Shapes" by Roger Zelazny and "The Saliva Tree" by Brian Aldiss (tie)
> Novelette: "The Doors of His Face, the Lamps of His Mouth" by Roger Zelazny
> Short Story: "'Repent, Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman" by Harlan Ellison
> ... it was a good year.


Way cool!

But who's that Ellison guy?

Frank! Good to see you around.

Two things:

Steve: I apologize for my unnecessary and vulgar retort.

And if anyone out there hasn't seen KUNG FU HUSTLE yet, then what are you waiting for? Go. If you fail to have a good time watching this flick, I will personally refund your ticket price.

Seriously.

HEADS UP - Neil Gaiman and his speech he gave at the Nebulas
As mentioned in the subject line, 'heads up' on Neil Gaiman and his speech he gave at the Nebula Awards.

http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp

Yours,
Dougie.

Writers whose work is made into movies
Been hearing a lot about and am in great anticipation of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy movies and wondering what Douglas Adams would think of the final product.

This lead to further thoughts on the subject, after I stopped missing Adams. How many authors only sell the rights to make a movie for the money and either regret it or feel like sell outs when they see the finished product? How many love the results of the endeavor and find even greater readership and appreciation for their work as a result? Do they still have regrets sometimes, and about what? How many just think of it as a transaction and don't worry about it much?

Just wonderin'...

PAB

To borrow my comment from the other board:

"Turn grandma's picture to the wall, because Frank and I are now going to have gasping, animalistic sex right here on the floor in front of y'all..."

Must. Wash. Out. Inside. Of. Skull. With. Bleach. To. Get. Rid. Of. Images. In. Head. (And I don't even know what you guys look like. . .)

Good to see you back, Frank (you godless, commie-loving, pinko bastard).

What Happens When You Don't Get The Girl You're In Love With?

Turn grandma's picture to the wall, because Frank and I are now going to have gasping, animalistic sex right here on the floor in front of y'all...

Frank,darklink,
I've missed you. I'm glad you're back. Stick around.

Cindy



I've left my own response on the "Valerie" spider thread. It took me a while and I'm sorry for that.

Have I missed anything, sucklings? I bet there was some nifty rant from Harlan and mine eyes did not behold the glory. Oh, well, those are the breaks. Kisses.

Will And Grace is probably the single best written show on television, but the problem with that show is that all the snappy writing is kind of wasted on mostly what are non plots. The damn show aint about any thing. Sure, it is snappy, but damn, give me more substance--pleassse!!

KEITH:

Had the meeting as scheduled.

I'll talk about it at the right time.

Till that time, drop it.

he

Blacktop rollin'
Brian's car comment got me wondering: Have I missed any publication where Harlan discusses auto racing? I know he's done it, but I don't recall ever seeing any specifics. Any info would be appreciated.

Brian Siano sez: "It's like saying, 'That guy's got a Ferrari, but he doesn't know how to drive it; I should have the right to use it whenever I want.'"

That kinda sounds like my husband. He wants to be the first 44 year old rookie f1 driver. When we last went to test the new Lotus Elise, he scared the hell out of the salesman. But I think the salesman might've been out of his league anyway; when it was the guy's turn to take ME for a drive, he couldn't even find the gears. We spent half the time in neutral. I think the guy was too used to taking out those Jag-u-ar sedans with automatic trannies. Hardly qualified to put the Elise through its paces. Just sad. Next time, I'm driving.

As for fanfics: blecch. Go create your own universe. That one's taken.

Did anybody see the duet by Joss Stone and Melissa Etheridge on the Grammy Awards show?
It was a tribute to Janis Joplin.

Raised goosebumps and brought me to tears.

Brian, Faisal,

There is one "Wars" fanfilm shot over 2 years in Maryland called "Revelations" that looks like a Star Wars TV special. It has very good production values and design, even a full musical score with Williams' themes blended into new arrangements. A consumer looking at just the product would have a hard time distinguishing it from an official Star Wars product.

That example is becoming more frequent than the countless lightsabre stunt films shot in 8mm with badly rotoscoped effects and sound dubbed from TV. With Lucas' encouragement, people are putting MONEY into these things in the hope that they will touch the face of George at some future fanfilm awards ceremony and perhaps get a job on the big ranch to boot.

As the technology improves and Lucas gives the greenlight to more of the same, there will be in-roads laid to support fanfilms based on literary properties based on the assumption of fair use granted by Lucasfilm Ltd and, by association the studio system.

When Time-Warner sends producers to applaud fanfilms at WizardWorld, they are essentially saying that those chartacters belong to anyone with a camcorder and, ironically, the BETTER ones - the ones with more money - will cause DC and Marvel's legal department to take action because of potential misrepresentation to the consumer and the obvious defense will be - "Well, why did you have VP Joe Dokus sitting on a panel of judges of a smaller film directed by the same people two years ago?" or "Why didn' you act to stop the other 50 movies being produced at the same time?"

There are Trek-related fanfilms and Paramount seems to go after violators at random. The "New Voyages" shows being produced outside of Paramount and aired only on the web will be produced with Gene Roddenberry's son with a guest appearance by Walter Koenig. (http://www.trekweb.com/articles/2005/03/09/422f88bd04e3c.shtml)

I guess that means Harlan could technically have his vision of "City" shot outside the studio system if he wanted.

I don't think it hurts the studios very much. In fact I think George Lucas sees the short-term benefits of having fans expand his universe, but I'm concerned when the fans decide they don't want to compete in the exhausted "Wars" and "Trek" forums and move on to steal other properties.

I'm with Faisal and Jay on the subject of fan films. I'm pretty sure I've posted here about why fan fiction bugs me as well. Yes, many writers get their start doing it, and as long as it's not for profit, it's not _technically_ intruding on copyrights. And things like _Troops_ (which I liked) aren't very different from the parodies one sees on _Saturday Night Live_, and I don't have a problem with parody.

But...

If I had something that lent itself to legions of fans who wanted moremoremore, I'd feel _violated_ if someone decided to come a-poachin' in my realm. It's _my_ creation. It's something that's part of _me_, truth be told. And for someone to come along and presume that they have every right in the world to assert their own creative impulses there is, well, infuriating.

Okay, okay, there are times when one allows such things. You sell the movie rights, and you're going to have to work with the screenwriter and director, and hopefully make soemthing new. But that's a relationship you get to _agree_ to. Fan fiction is, frankly, the extremely bad manners of people who don't think there's anything wrong with coming into your home, installing new furniture, and repainting the walls.

If these fans want to create something, then let them _create_ something _new_, or at least, try to file off the serial numbers and change the fucking names.

BTW, the bit about how George Lucas's own films aren't as good as the fan films? And how this indicates why he has to work harder to make good ones? Gosh-- I thought he had that responsibility even if _no one_ was making fan films. If he makes bad films, then fine: let posterity judge. But sniping at Lucas in this regard, even if it has some basis, is merely a rationalization for people to attach themselves to a lucrative property and wallow in shitty fantasies. It's like saying, "That guy's got a Ferrari, but he doesn't know how to drive it; I should have the right to use it whenever I want."





Was that long enough?

Question for Harlan re: "Mefisto In Onyx"
Harlan,

You said at the WHC that you were meeting with some studio people the following week regarding the "Mefisto In Onyx" movie project. Any news you can share with the hopeful slobbering masses here in the Pavilion? Or are we eating dry cereal again?

-Keith

Peyroux and Adegbalola tongue-twister sisters
I third INFOMAN'S take on Madeleine Peyroux.

Those who may bemoan the emotional immaturity of Joss Stone (personally, I am smitten) will rejoice in the depth and timbre of Peyroux's otherworldly offerings.

And if ya'll haven't checked out the solo release from Gaye Adegbalola (of Saffire) ya'll should. "Neo-classic Blues" will take you way back. This is the kind of work that netted her the W.C. Handy Award.



Dig it,

Neal

'MAN--
You are indeed remembering the voice of Billie Holiday. Peyroux's particular cachet is that she "sounds like Billie Holiday." Indeed, the timbre of the voice is eerily similar. Still, there's only ONE Billie Holiday(what would have been Lady Day's 90th birthday recently passed with much celebration in certain corners of the jazz community). Peyroux is good. She's not necessarily *my* cup of tea, but I'm glad you enjoy her. People *should* know about her.

My favorite singer these days is Dena DeRose. Also, check out "The Dana Owens Album" by Queen Latifah. It's the real deal IMO. I hope Latifah continues to record that sort of thing. I think she has voice and style for miles and miles. "Moody's Mood" isn't easy to sing, but the Queen did her homework and ate it up. I was impressed. The disc was worth the bread, man.

A tip on a FANTASTIC Singer
ALL (ESPECIALLY YOU, HARLAN): Okay, I may be a real Johnny-come-lately in raving about her, but after hearing Madeleine Peyroux singing Leonard Cohen's "Dance Me to the End of Love" on a local NPR station yesterday, I stopped at a local music store and picked up "Careless Love," the album that contained that song, released just last year. WHAT A VOICE! Holy shit. It reminds me of some of the legendary female jazz & blues singers from the late 30s and 40s. (I wanna say it reminds me of Billie Holiday, but it's early and I may be remembering _her_ voice incorrectly). Let's just say that Peyroux's voice is imbued with the human equivalent (in terms of resonance) of a muted trumpet. Soulful and weary, yet tinged with an edge of brassiness that says, "Even when I'm feeling down I'm not out."
I'm certain that I've heard her cowritten tune, "Don't Wait Too Long," on the soundtrack to some movie (either in the theater, on DVD, or in passing on cable TV); and _that_ song, by the way, is corker. The whole album/CD is well worth the 11/2 sawbucks I laid out for it. And I'm gonna go back by that same store today and pick up her first album from '96.
I whole-heartedly recommend this lady and her music to anyone out there who loves music. Jeeeeezus: what a voice! (I may be in love).

Yours in Information and musical infatuation,
the Man.

Apologies for the Ad Hominem
Hello Rich and Jon,

Rich: Thank you for the clarifications in your e-mail. I must apologize for my ad hominem attack. It was bad form on my part,

Jon: sorry about violating "another place" ettiquette. I was really only responding to what I read here in the pavilion after the discussion bled over in a number of other people's posts.

I will add a comment on the story over on your thread.

Sincerely,

Steve Dooner

USA
The issue of male impotency or erectile dysfunction is a very sensitive
issue for men. But now since | http://www.buy-viagra-with-us.com |
Viagra is around they do not need to worry about their sexual lives at all
because Viagra has now taken the reins of the satisfactory sexual lives
of the individuals in its hands.

Viagra has surely brought a revolution in the field of oral medication
for treating erectile dysfunction. Viagra is the first oral pill to
treat erectile dysfunction. If you want to get rid of it then |
http://www.buy-viagra-with-us.com | buy Viagra. To |
http://www.buy-viagra-with-us.com | buy Viagra Online is not a very
complicated task.. You can get Viagra anytime you feel like to have it.

So buy | http://www.buy-viagra-with-us.com | Viagra online. We offer |
http://www.buy-viagra-with-us.com | cheap Viagra to you so that you can
afford Viagra to remove your sexual dysfunction and can enjoy your love
life like earlier.

Dooner, Messiah
Dooner: I believe what ol' savant Rich was trying to say (leaving aside any comment on the content of the Dweebs manifesto)was simply that posting something over here about something over there without ever getting involved in something over there makes you seem a little needy. It just gives the impression that you're a bit of a H.E.liotrope, a term I like because it isn't vulgar and it made me laugh when I came up with it five minutes ago.

Cheers, Jon

Fanfilms
Hi Jay,

Fanfilms are (in my own hugely personal opinion) just a waste of time and resources. There have been one or two good ones (Troops spring to mind) but like you said, its like pissing in someone else pool. Why bother investing all the time, money, friendship, agro in doing something set in someone elses copyright registered world when you can have a original story that you yourself want to tell in a world of your own creation.

Star Wars is in a unique situation since Lucas recognises the fan base and the money it generates for him. To my understanding, if the films are not for profit, then its OK by his lawyers. From the one's I've been forced to watch, I have to ask: Why bother? Are people really that barren for ideas? Darth Vader cameo's do not a good movie make.

I love David Lynch's adaptation of Dune, I really do think its a great movie, I'm not going to waste energy shooting my version of it. Why go to all that trouble when I have production designers, storyboard artists, cinematographers all wanting an opportunity to show off their talent, not emulate someone elses on a tenth of the budget.

There are people out there who've adapted J.D. Salinger, Damion Runyan, Ian Fleming and other works with none of them ever getting a release because the necessary legal paperwork or author permission not having been obtained. Not even in film festivals.

For example, I'm familiar with a short film adapted from a writer's work that had one of Rod Steiger's last performances. It will never be distributed as the writer's estate is pissed off. This film is not even listed on the IMDB. It will be considered a lost film, a waste of time and effort for everyone who worked on it.

Ultimately, any film needs to have an audience outside the film makers friends and family, why restrict the distribution of it because copyright clearance from the original creators or their estate couldn't be obtained?

FAQ

Rich: Thanks for both admitting you were wrong and being vulgar in your response at the same time. That's like a double win for me. I'm elated.

Your brown-nosing friend,

Steve Dooner

Wow, sorry to hear about all the lost verbiage, Harlan. Hope that doesn't discourage you completely from attempting similar discurses in the future.


Steve Evil:

I'll PRIMARILY be reading from _Cosmicomics_, because I haven't found much else by Calvino that's sufficiently compact to fit into a selection that is supposed to last not much more than an hour, much as I liked _The Baron in the Trees_, for instance. I'll definitely read "All at One Point," and I'll probably finish with "The Dinosaurs," which I adore despite its length.

All that remains is a 10 to 15 minute window in between. There are several other possibilities from _Cosmicomics_ and _t zero_ I'm not so hot about, so I'm reading madly through _The Nonexistent Knight_, _The Cloven Viscount_, and _The Castle of Crossed Destinies_ in the hope of finding a short passage or two that might do ("Knight" has a terrific couple of pages on the hilarious absurdity of medieval warfare), or just a couple good quotes to toss into a biographical sketch on the guy, because I expect a fair number of folks in the audience will not be familiar with him.

Oh, and I may open with the first couple of pages of _If on a Winter's Night a Traveller_.

The True Solution For Harlan
Type ut your message on your favorite typewriter. Hand it to a newly hired Art Deco Pavilion transcriber. Have the transcriber type the message into the PC and address any disappearances, farts, bleeps and bloops with either his/her technical skills or by retyping the message from the piece of paper.

$7 an hour should do it. You can have them dust the bookshelves during downtime.

-TODD

Addendum

Hitting the backspace button on your browser should be your first action, like Jan said. It's still a good idea to copy long posts in the way I described, however.

(Sick of all the free advice, yet?)

Of Venom, Valerie Eidolons and Fanfilms...
"Valerie" has been downgraded from a hurricane to a tropical depression. As such, I've moved it out of the top spot hoping we can spend some more time with Barney's "Eidolons" -- of course "Valerie" remains open, but it's interesting how we're experiencing the same range of emotions TALKING about the piece as apparently went into its creation.

Jan, I strongly urge you to repost your message in that thread if you haven't already done so. I think it's a good point we all need to ponder.

Rich - thanks for the tip. You know, in recent years I've found it difficult to support fanfilms. I know that George Lucas just loves it and supports them with awards. I know that Wizard magazine has an annual contest that encourages the use of comic book characters...but I have to ask myself: How can I honestly support the protection of intellectual property if I support the creation of films that play in someone else's universe?

I USED to believe that these characters - superheroes, the crew of the Enterprise, whatever - belonged to ALL of us. And I guess there are large enough loopholes in copyright law to make that true, but if we allow this kind of "fair use" how much harder will it be when guys like Harlan or the estates of Doyle or Wells try to protect their rights?

If a Star Wars fanfilm is okay...and a Batman versus Aliens and Predators is okay...what's wrong with taking Frank Herbert's universe, addeding David Lynch's production design and start revisiting "Dune"? Or whats to stop "The Further Adventures of A Boy and His Dog"? I'm just glad my student film of "Prince Myshkin" was so horrid that all copies have been vaporized.

In one respect it's just like taking a story, making it mine and writing a sequel or new story with those characters without the involvement of the creators or license holders. There will always be "Slash" or "fanfiction" but to make a concerted effort to create something as complex and enduring as a FILM - its not just some random brainshits on a word processor to share with horny shut-ins who can't imagine for themselves what Pon Far must be like between a Vulcan and his Captain and secret lifemate.

I would LOVE to be able to write life into Superman or Spiderman and "Hope Chest" was a good script that allowed me to do that, but in the end I feel like I'm just pissing in someone's pool.

And with copyright, every time a creator endorses or fails to act in behalf of his property it makes it even harder to defend a TRUE commercial violation of copyright. Given that many of the Star Wars fanfilms are equal to or better than the shit Lucas has produced in the last decade, that should be a big RED FLAG for the industry to watch its ass.

I know...this makes me sound like I've found Jesus in the froth of my milkshake. I doubt that I will EVER have the singular honor of writing the characters I love for DC or Marvel (you don't know HOW I envy guys who have) a fanfilm or 'zine seems like the natural consolation prize...but I can't find the ethical/creative middle ground anymore.

Note: I should also say that I don't point my finger at people who don't have an issue and scream "UNCLEAN!" because there are many honorable, creative people who simply want to add their creative vision to a larger universe. So I guess I post this as an invitation to further discussion. I'd enjoy hearing Harlan's take on this as well.

Harlan

The easiest way to save your posts is the following:

1) Write your post.

2) Hold down your left-hand keypad button, then move the cursor over your text until it's all highlighted in blue.

3) Click your right-hand button. Pick "Copy" from the menu that pops up. Your post is now saved. (If you accidentally delete it, don't panic. Right-click, select "Undo," and your post will reappear.)

4) Click on "Send Message." If your post disappears, go back to the "Post Message" page, right-click to bring up the menu again, then click "Paste" to reenter your text. Try to send it again.

As Jan points out, if you spend too long writing a message, the board will time out on you, and your post may be lost. You may want to occasionally hit "Preview" while you're writing, to avoid this.

(Yes, I know this sounds like a pain in the ass, but trust me, this really is the easiest way. Practice it a little, and see if you don't agree.)

Personally, I'm thinking if you've got something to say regarding the SPIDER discussions, you should bring over to the appropriate thread on the other side, and not in the Pavilion. Unless, of course, your name is Harlan.

For those that are interested, and I'm looking at Doug, Jay, FAQ, and Bern (if he's lurking):

http://astronomicon.info/Fanfilmawards.html

And, Steve Dooner, if you'd kindly remove your nose from Mr. Ellison's ass, this "dweeb" has something to say to you. I'll wait while you blow the shit out of your nose. Ok. You raise a valid point regarding the "humanistic frame". I would only say that you read Jon's and Jim's ruminations on the subject, and I think you'd be very surprised at the insights that both of them provided. HE does not agree with those insights, but that doesn't mean that either of these gentlemen can't read or didn't have something worthwhile to say. And here all this time I thought you were an academic. Oh, well. One of the many things I was wrong about.

Harlan's lost posts / browser software / free advice
If your posts vanished and you couldn't retrieve them, it sounds like you're using Internet Explorer! Firefox and Opera are much better (free) browsers - if something happens, you just hit the back button and whatever you have written *is still there*. Everyone should use those, also because they're safer and faster etc. (I use Opera, http://www.opera.com/download/) Most people only use IE because... well I don't actually know. They aren't aware of the options.

If you exceed 30 minutes or so in writing your message, the Bulletin Board generally forgets you're there (automatic log-out) and everything will be lost. We have all had this problem over there.

(Like Duane says, you could also write your posts into a notepad or Microsoft Word and then paste them into the browser window using your mouse. Using Word you could also save a personal copies of such postings for future reference. If you want to do none of this, you can also obviously split your messages into two or more parts if they are long.)

Regarding "Valerie: A True Memoir":

Why is it considered wrong to admit feelings of outrage when someone has done you wrong? Many malfeasances spread because we think it is politically incorrect to point out bad behavior. The readers who objected to the essay expect a benevolence of the author that only a mad saint could possess. The feelings expressed are honest feelings, feelings we've all had. To deny them in order to subscribe to some lofty ideal is being dishonest. Love, and even attraction, are delicate things, finding us at our most vulnerable. To abuse that power is to commit a grievous wrong.

Please, stop that buzzing noise coming from next door... anyone.

I've written huge tracts and have them be utterly evaporated by Windows. Lovely, lovely Windows.

The volatility of computer storage is one of the reasons I still prefer pen and paper.

That's right, you heard me.

Thanks everyone for showing me the 35-year to 50-year comparison. I should have thought to look at Islets, good site.

I'm trying to round up my contemporaries for the Downfall showing. I'd go to the reading in Oregon, but even though the state is near, the city isn't :)

Actually, I felt empowered to continue to use my journals despite the increasing popularity of computers by a very angry guy who seemed tired of his commentary spots on a show called Sci Fi Buzz. I always looked forward to his commentary. And this was before I'd ever read a word of his work, I do believe. I kept expecting him to start yelling at that chirpy host.

-Aaron

There are times I hate computers...
It happens to me, too, Harlan. Every so often, the program will stick out its tongue and slobber all over what I've just written, rendering it useless, gone or deranged (well, sometimes I help with that last bit). And I've been doing this for a quarter century. I miss typewriters at times like that. And I was hoping for a longer piece on "retroanalysis," as you called it in the thread, and not just because I'm of like mind about it. Ah well. If you ever feel like doing it again, you know we'll still be here.

Steve Dooner, can't agree with you. I think the discussion on "Valerie" has been very interesting, not least because we got to debate the whole issue of how to analyze this sort of essay. Call me an old over-degreed dweeb, but I eat that sort of thing up with a great big ol' spoon.

I like to think that when we get to the Pearly Gates, right near Moses's slabs will be all the words Harlan wrote that ended up in the electronic ether...

TV Guide non-magazine.

I don't watch a lot of tv these days. It seems that most of the good shows that require me to pay attention have gone away.

I have subscribed to TV Guide for decades. That way, I would know which weeks to record NYPD Blue and a few others. The nitworks broadcast so few new episodes these days that you can't just set a recording program for every week. TV Guide recently re-tooled, and there are no individual listings for any channels between 1:30am and 7:00am, a time when many movies are run. In addition, TV Guide lists 86 channels, of which I get 43. I also get 20 other channels; I get no help from TV Guide with those channels.

So, in print form (or even online), TV Guide is fairly useless for me and, I think, many others. I have cancelled it.

O Lamentable Day!

Harlan,

It is a surely great misfortune that we've lost your final response to the S.P.I.D.E.R. thread. However, I will add that many of these carping dweebs probably don't deserve a response because they have little or no ability to read. The first three or four paragraphs of "Valerie," written thirty years ago, precisely answered all of their objections in advance. You clearly put the story in a humanistic frame, and you also made it entirely evident that we are talking about a particular monster, not a universal stereotype. So what's the big deal here!

I write this simply so you know that there are those of us who read what you write carefully.

Steve Dooner

Harlan

Goddammit! I was looking forward to your final response.

Harlan: Well, SHIT.

amy

Help Is On The Way....
Harlan,

This may be more work than you will want to do, and the suggestion may have already been made and rejected, but...

Open up "notepad" (if you have a PC) or its Apple equivalent, and write out your response, then just copy and paste it into the reply window. If it disappears, you will have a backup copy.

I would have really loved to read your response to _Valerie_. I've grown up in a rather politically correct world, and the writing in _Valerie_ introduced me to a new (and fresh and vibrant) viewpoint. Please try again if you have the time.

--Duane

Comparing the Essentials
Aaron:

Table of contents for The Essential Ellison, original and revised editions, is also available at "Islets of Langerhans" at:

http://www.islets.net/collections/essential.html

Zuz

THE S.P.I.D.E.R. DIALOGUES REDUX

I give up.

Previously, without incident, I had entered two comments onto the "Valerie" thread. Just wrote'm and hit SUBMIT and there they were, right in the flow.

Yesterday, moved by the intensity of the chat, I spent two hours writing a very long post discussing process and intent, the inherent fallacy of post hoc ergo proctor hoc, and considerations of in situ analysis, especially as it related to the "Valerie" essay. Added much background minutiae. Labored over it. Thought it was pretty good stuff. When it was done, I hit SUBMIT...

And it vanished.

Never to return, never to be found. Gone.

Today, I popped in to see the Barney-originated "Eidolons" discussion, and made a few remarks commending everyone thereon for some excellent and perceptive posts. Told Barney he was wrong, that "Eidolons" was REPRINTED in F&SF, but had appeared first in the sadly-now-defunct Australian magazine (named after the story), EIDOLONS. Also explained that I had located the painting by Ilene Meyer used on the cover of that issue, and had gerrymandered it thereon in a package deal with Ed Ferman.

Hit SUBMIT. And it vanished. Never to return. Gone.

I give up.

Wearily, yr. pal, Harlan





nd it vanished.

Calvino Live!
Ooo, story time! Anything from "Cosmicomics" Mr. Loftus? I would definately go if I lived anywhere near Portland. . .

Censoring Hellywood
I, too, caught the program "Bleep! Censoring Hollywood" on AMC the other night. While most of me was deploring the unauthorized re-editing of Hollywood films by holier-than-thou busybodies, part of me was thinking, "Ha! Take THAT you bastards! You're getting the same amount of respect that you accord WRITERS!" I'm not proud of it--but, there you are.

Story Time for Grownups

I don't know of anyone else within hearing besides Stan, but just in case a lurker or two in my neck of the woods might be interested:


STORY TIME FOR GROWNUPS
at Grendel’s Coffee House
presents

The Fabulous Worlds of Italo Calvino

David Loftus will read from the writings of Italo Calvino at Grendel’s Coffee House, 729 East Burnside, 503-595-9550, at 7:30 p.m. on Monday, May 2, 2005.

What would it be like to be the last dinosaur, or one of the first fish to crawl up on land? What was life like before the Big Bang, when everyone and everything occupied a single point?

Impossible to imagine? Not for the Italian fabulist Calvino. While others mourned the death of the novel, he wrote sly novels about a medieval baron who chooses to live his whole life in the trees, a fighting suit of armor with no one inside, and a soldier split into two live halves by a cannonball. In _If On a Winter’s Night a Traveler_, a distracted reader starts ten different novels-within-the-novel but fails to finish them all.

Come and hear stories by the man who crossed physics with fairy tale, biology with fable, in a literary line that runs from Voltaire and Swift to Borges and Nabokov.

David Loftus has read a variety of authors to live audiences at Powell’s Books, Borders, and the Multnomah County Library. He has recorded books for broadcast on OPB’s “Golden Hours” and voices for its “Bridging World History” video series. He is the voice of Sanford, the protagonist of the animated film “The Journey,” and many characters in the sci-fi detective series “Dry Smoke and Whispers,” currently airing on XM satellite radio.

By the way, it's free. You have to pay for the coffee and pastries, though.

No Switch Needed

Todd,

You needn't change your teat provider -- you can simply subscribe to the magazine. Both are, based on my admittedly limited experience, individually available at the newstand. (In fact, go to a big newsstand and check 'em out before you subscribe.)

Since satellite television most likely mirrors (perhaps even exceeds) what you can get with your digital cable -- you should be able to figure out what's on where.

informationally,
the mite

Every time I've been here the past few days all I hear is Cox Cox Cox.

I don't wanna be a Cox knocker, but I'm stickin' to my DirecTV.

Respectfully,
Neal

P.S. Hi Cindy.

I love my Cox. I'm perfectly happy with what my Cox offers me. I get hundreds of channels with my Cox, and I get dependable high speed internet with my Cox and I even get my phone service with my Cox. My Cox may be huge, but my Cox is actually quite talented as far entering my home and pleasing me with. I've had problems with other cable companies I've dealt with back East, but here in the West I have grown quite fond of Cox.

I have no desire to switch to satellite just to be able to use their guides. Now, their guides may be useful for my needs if they cover all the channels I get, but in the end I think I am destined to using the Cox or TV Guide Internet sites for my weekly searches.

I do not need another option to my Cox, I just need something that will enhance my Cox pleasure.

Thanks all.

-TODD

With Time Warner Cable, you can get a DVR, which works like the TiVo, except you don't buy the box. Also, you can get On Demand, which elimiates the need for recording programs on the movie channels.

There's another reason why I have Time Warner cable modem. AT&T has this box you can hook up to your cable modem and you can use it to make calls. It gives you free caller ID, call waiting, forwarding, and voice mail plus unlimited local and long distance for $25/month. It's an awesome deal, really, with the only problem being if the power goes out, you have no phone.

*I'm not a paid employee of AT&T or anything, just a cheap person.

PAB

What Chuck said, BUT...
I don't know anything about Cox (seriously, I don't), but the ONLY reason I'm with Time Warner here on the East Coast is because of cable modem access. DSL is not available in my neck of the woods so I had to sign a deal with that Debbil Cable in order to get my porn...umm, my ability to work from home in a timely manner. Dial-up just won't cut it.

So I think Chuck has a good alternative, but you may find yourself in the same situation I was in, Todd: Namely that I can't look at my porn...umm, my work without the cable modem.

And those cable companies know it, too, the bastards.

Dat Ol' Debbil Cable
Todd,

The pay tv market is extremely competitive right now, with providers promising everything from perpetual motion to eternal salvation to get/keep customers.

Have you considered satellite TV? I will admit up front that I currently work for a SatTV provider, but I'm still using rabbit ears on my TV - even with the sweet employee deals. The dish antenna that's used these days is 18" to 20" in diameter, unlike the six to ten foot dishes that looked like they should be looking into the heart of a supernova rather than pulling down re-runs of Hee-Haw.

The thing is, the satellite companies - Dish Network & Direct TV - are offering some real deals to lure people away from cable. And I know they each offer a humungous monthly guide/magazine for subscribers, and their technology has evolved quite a bit.

Just thought I'd throw out an alternative to Cox. And I'm done snickering.

Chuck

I came across an interesting program on American Movie Classics this past week depicting the conservative culture and its efforts to clean up films by editing them outside the studio system.

"BLEEP! Censoring Hollywood?" is a badly titled but outrageous depiction of companies that take films, edit them for content and sell or rent them to the general public.

http://www.amctv.com/article?CID=2100-1--0-5-EST

There is a debate on the definition of Fair Use in copyright law that drives this industry and protcts it, as well as a clause in the 2005 Congressional attempt to protect copyright EXCEPT in the case of businesses that want the right to edit copyright-protected material for content.

I was yelling at the TV, especially at these people who claim they can buy a copy of a movie and therefore have the right to edit, rerender, distribute and sell that movie to the public for profit.

Aaron:

I count at least fifteen additions to the HE 50 year Retropsective. You can view the table of contents here:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1883398606/ref=sib_rdr_toc/103-9268311-2811067?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S00L#reader-page

Colour Me Kubrick
Colour Me Kubrick is a tongue in cheek biography of Alan Conway, a real life conman who used to brag about getting cash and sexual favours (mostly from young men) by convincing them he was Mr. Kubrick and could get them parts in his new movie.

I never encountered Mr. Conway though did meet one of his many "conquests" in a second hand record store near Gresse St, London ten years ago. I thought the dude was a bullshitter until I heard the stories about Mr. Conway and who he targetted.

There was a hilarious article a decade back where a journalist found Mr. Conway in the company of a senior politican of the Conservative party and a rent boy in an exclusive London resturant. Who that politician was has never been identified.

The project has a long history, at one point SK tenatively approached Alex Cox to direct the film. I still keep in touch with Tony Frewin, the screenwriter of the film (ex´Kubrick Asst. and hell of a good researcher).

FAQ

The Heart can lie

I read "Valerie" for the first time last night.

What I got from it was that Harlan was hurt by the Valerie incident and wanted justice done, and actually did something about it, which I thought was great.

That, and that the Heart can lie to you (and to itself), and it sometimes takes extraordinary circumstances to pluck it out of the fog.

From all of his work that I've read so far, and I've probably read less of it than most of the people that frequent here, I get the feeling his relationship with the Idea of Woman, (is there even such a thing really?), is too complex for simple labels. Heck, he may actually look at every female as an individual, inseparable from humanity by simple categories, which is almost heretical anymore.

It seems like this is what people think argumentation is: instead of proving your case well, and standing up to criticism, you say something contentious and throw it into a crowded room like a grenade. Online debates often take this shape because you can basically do that, and then hide under a rock while the fountain of body parts slaps wetly to the ground. Tee-hee.

A common theme in Harlan's pieces about relationships which I find very valuable, and wish I'd read in my youthy-youth, was the virtue of wisdom and wit. I'm lucky enough now to be engaged to someone who fits that archetype, and the happiness pays off in dividends one's soul can live off of for the rest of one's years. It's sort of like a cosmic answer to existential loneliness.

To address the work fully I'd probably have to read all (five, as I write) pages of the S.P.I.D.E.R. forum discussion and address all the points so far expressed. The very idea exhausts me.

Anyway.

I hope that Colour Me Kubrick work gets out to the wilderness where I live. Downfall begins playing here on April 30th (one of three weirdly spaced days in the land of the People of the Sun), and I overwrote my grocery check last night so I had enough spendin' cash for it. I'll relay my thoughts about it if anyone cares.

Todd:

Just three months ago I was TV free. So I really didn't watch it, at all. Unless you count movies or video games, but I wouldn't, really.

Now I've been wooed back by various shows. Oh well.

I use zap2it as a reference, but I realize that's not what you're after.

... COX!

Anyone:

I have the 35-year Essential Ellison, but I've been wondering what the 50-year has in addition to the older one's contents. Anyone have a list, or could point me to a bibliography? (The database thing here gives me "warnings" and doesn't tell me what's IN the essential ellison, so I can't really compare them.)

Harlan:

Have you been invited to Maher's new show, or would you do such a thing again? I know you were a frequent guest on his old show for ABC, and you tore things up, which was fun to [read]. I don't have cable, so it's not like it's a request or anything.

-Aaron

Todd,

Yours aren't the best snickers about our evil, omnipresent cable company. Awhile back, I was looking for a keen-o fast Internet Connection. The choice fell between Cox and Qwest. However, I heard evil things about Qwest, so, as I told my friend, who had Cox: "Yeah, I've heard wicked stuff about them. I NEED Cox!"

Then I stopped and nearly doubled over, while he nodded: "Sure, you need Cox! I understand! There's nothing wrong with that!"

In the past, I heard a story where Cox used to give away all kinds of premiums hock their service: cute little doojiggers... like candy; candy at the end of cardboard sticks. Lollipops. A bunch of kids or parents decided to load up on the free goodies and the Cox reps ran out, prompting the request: "You need to get some more of these Cox suckers here!"

It sounds apocryphal... but it's the use I've heard of their name. Good luck on your quest. They still don't offer the cable package I want: Just the Food Network, the Cartoon Network and Comedy Central; forget the rest.

h.e. or Barney - Flying Tiger alert ...
General Claire Chennault

Just out of interest, which book are you guys referring to ?

thankfully,

Dougie

Listing Teat in Your Area

Todd,

This might work: http://www.directmagazine.com/

Or this: http://www.orbitmagazine.com/

informationally,
the mite

I Have My Teat, But I Can't Suckle
I know that the topic of television brings out the ire in many on this board, but this isn’t the 60’s and 70’s teevee era of The Glass Teat; there’s some good stuff on the tube and tons of movies if you have all the channels. Even Harlan has indicated in his talks and on this board that there are shows he enjoys (Monk, for one). With that said, I admit that I need my teevee and I need some help and I’m betting someone out there has the solution because I’m too frustrated trying to shape the right key words into an internet search that will give me an answer:

I have a digital cable teevee package, which means I have a couple of hundred channels including all those nifty movie channels like HBO, HBO2, HBOfor44yearoldjews, along with multiple Showtimes and The Movie Channels and Encore, ya da, da da, ya da. We also get all of those niche cable channels like The Miniature Golf Channel and Made For Menopausal Women Only Channel and stuff like that.

My cable company here in Phoenix, Cox (stop sniggering) Communications, used to offer a TV Guide which supplied the week’s worth of viewing on every single channel during every minute of the week. This was a magazine size version of the most popular magazine in the entire world, as opposed to the paperback book size version. Well, good ole Cox (you in the back, stop smiling) started streamlining their TV Guide until it began to skip late night viewing, but that was o.k. because they still offered an excellent movie listing section that would enable me to tape all the movies I had never seen to watch at my convenience. Then, my pals at Cox (stop it!) sent out notices that they were going to stop supplying this guide for those of us who pay for it and we needed to contact the offices of TV Guide to get the mag directly from them.

Interjection: this is a long boring story about my addiction to movies and stuff on teevee. Sorry; I’m selfish and I’m hoping someone has the answer.

So, as I expected, the paperback size TV Guide arrives this week and it may as well be a dirty faced, 10-year old street urchin standing outside my house telling me what he thinks might be on tonight but isn’t exactly sure. In two words: it sucks. It doesn’t offer anything beyond the networks, local channels and the standard cable channels, and it stops at 10pm each night (out West, primetime is 7pm-10pm) and because of this you wouldn’t even know that shows such as The Shield and South Park and Project Greenlight even exist! It’s worthless; and more worthless than that is calling TV Guide to ask if they offer anything at all similar to what Cox (shhhhhh) offered, as their phone message says something similar to “Hi, we’re TV Guide, we know that customer support is a very important thing for a company such as ours that produces the most popular magazine in the history of the known universe, but we’re kinda busy and so we don’t even want you to hold and thus, g’bye *click*”

So, now I’m stuck. Yes, there are plenty of internet sites that offer all I need on a day by day basis, TV Guide’s is perfect as is Cox’s (enough already with the snickering), but I don’t have the time to plan my movie taping and show watching (yes, I have about 8-10 television shows a week that I watch consistently, sue me) by clicking day by day on a website no matter how good it is. I like to sit with a magazine while the Yankee game is on and circle the movies I want to see next week and the shows that I watch that are not in rerun and list those items by day so that I don’t friggin forget because unlike my childhood of 3 network channels, 3 local channels and PBS, there’s just too much shit to sift through to remember everything.

Now, I beg of thee…..please don’t feel embarrassed to admit to any knowledge about something as stupid as television listings. We all watch teevee. We do. We do. Some more than others, but we do do do do do. Is there any savvy person out there who knows of a TV listing MAGAZINE (print, inky dirty print) that will supply all the tons of channels that are offered on most digital cable packages(or satellite for that matter) ...especially all of those various movie channels that are the key to my keeping up on all the shit that is produced and that Debbie and I don’t see in our weekly theater trips.

Help, please? I have my teat, but I can’t suckle.

-TODD

I'm becoming seriously turned off from participating here any longer. Everyone bitches, whines, argues, insults each other, etc. It's just plain ridiculous. I don't even want to come back here anymore. When will people be cordial, adult-like in their dialouge instead of hiding behind a computer screen like a coward, flaming others to their heart's content? So, I'm staying away. All of this crap is not worth my time, to participate in and read. Harlan, you're a good man and I enjoyed meeting you in Cleveland, in March. I will read more of your work and see how things fare at the PHP boards for a while longer. :)

>Methinks thou dost jump too swiftly, gents.

OK, thanks. However, we should be excused, since there was a clear message there, Harlan's words did come right after the discussion, and both Brian and I independently felt like he was talking about us. It was to be expected that everyone would wonder if he was making reference to the discussion that preceded his words, while it may well have been that to Harlan we were just *reminiscent* of revisionists. In general, I tend to suspect more intent that carelessness behind Harlan's words, for obvious reasons. You don't go making ironic remarks in the aftermath of something and then expect people not to make a connection. Anyway, thanks.

Very sad update on this. You can view some media files here as well. You will be moved.
Schapelle is being used to punish Australia for joining the coalition. No one will say that but that is what is going on here and it is a tragedy, a frigging, stinking human tragedy.
Shame on us.
Shame on us.
Shame on us.
Shame on us.
And shame on them.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=48310

Anyone wishing to jump in and help out is welcomed and encouraged.
Please email me and I'll tell you how you can help.
The next few days will be very tough - the next few weeks even tougher. There is very little doubt that she will be convicted.
The question is will she face a firing squad or life in prison.

Please sign this petition if you haven't already. Please, please, please...

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/bringschapellehome

"Why is any time a discussion on something other than movies gets even remotley detailed or heated, somebody whines and demands that it cease?"

Because after a while, when people have said what they had to say about the subject, it gets repetitive and boring, with endless variations of "I know you are, good sir, but what am I?" That and the scroll bar was giving off smoke.

Chuck

So did I, Duane, even though I hated it. Trampampoline!

Cheers, Jon

Valerie
All I can say is this: I enjoyed the read.

Why is any time a discussion on something other than movies gets even remotley detailed or heated, somebody whines and demands that it cease?

I have left two fairly long commentaries on the S.P.I.D.E.R. FORUM thread concerning my memoir-essay "Valerie."

Wouldn't want those herein attending to miss the clash of titans over there.

he

At the risk of starting things off all over again...
...guys, I think some of you have jumped to the conclusion that Harlan was aiming barbs at you with the remark about "good Germans," and you're not considering the context. He put the myth of Ellisonian misogeny at the end of a list containing the "good German" myth, flying saucers, the claim that Bacon wrote Shakespeare, the Shroud of Turin, u.s.w. Instantly, a couple of you assumed you were the targets of one item on the list. Methinks thou dost jump too swiftly, gents.

On the amusing side, I've been arguing with some guy who actually believes the theory that De Vere wrote Shakespeare. You have to goggle at someone who can fall for a theory _that_ Looney (pun intended).

And a note to Tony Isabella--thanks for the link about Cleveland Typewriter. I don't know if Harlan used their services, but I certainly did. I wish I'd known they were selling off their stock earlier! Alas, I missed the article, because of the weekend snowfall. The power was out, the trees were splashed all over the Eastern suburbs and our newspapers were well and truly buried. Ah, well.

Harlan: I wasn't saying the "good" Germans were duped or against it all (what great use of irony, thank you), I'm just strongly against the common generalizations and simplifications in such matters, as should you be. It must be possible to talk about propaganda and disinformation without you or anyone else slapping an apologist label on me.

Ken: Not necessary, I'll just live with your 90% figure. I have reminded you of the circumstances and that's that. :-)

The John Malkovich film is "Color Me Kubrick". He's an odd duck, thats for sure.
Sherrie

HARLAN,

You're not a misogynist. I'm not quite sure WHAT you are, but you're not a misogynist.

A misogynist would sound far more confident in his words, more self-assured and sanguine. You know, the kind of guy who says to a woman, "Why do you make me do this?", as he proceeds to bash her head against a concrete pavement.

"Hare DARE you!!"

Yes, my fingers have coined a new phrase. I think it represents my slapping someing in the face with a dead bunny whenever I am upset. Similar to the Monty Python Fish Slap Dance.

-TODD

Speaking of Kubrick, has anyone seen those coming attractions for some movie with John Malkovich called "Being Stanley Kubrick" or "I am Stanley Kubrick" or "Something Something Stanley Kubrick"?

Now, what the hell is this movie about, and when oh when can I see it. Looks strange....but then, what has Malkovich done that isn't strange?

PS, Adam-Troy.....you have the GALL to ask Harlan if he hates your wife as well, when he actually admitted hating his own wife? Hare DARE you!! Now, Debbie, is another matter......

-TODD

*** Brian *** Wow. Just knowing someone is out ther putting forth that opinion - and getting paid for it, boggles my little, and presumably getting smaller by the day, mind.

And yet, despite this depressing news, on the off chance that Brian didn't know about this - VERY off chance, I give you;

The Stanley Kubrick Archives

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/kubrick-archives.htm

I'm sure you know about it, but might not have seen these photos. Looks like a hell of a fetish object. Trying to picture the equivalent Ellison item. Comes with holy relics like a digit from the Glass Hand, an ink blotter and a spent typing ribbon.

- Barney

Fingerbone, PA.

Welcome to the 21st Century
From the _New York Times_, April 24th:
"Watching TV Makes You Smarter" By STEVEN JOHNSON
"If early television took its cues from the stage, today's reality programming is reliably structured like a video game: a series of competitive tests, growing more challenging over time. Many reality shows borrow a subtler device from gaming culture as well: the rules aren't fully established at the outset. You learn as you play."

From the _Rocky Mountain News_, April 25
"E-mails poach IQ, researcher says"
Excessive messages, called 'info-mania,' knock off 10 points
By Kathrine Jebsen Moore, Bloomberg News

"The study of 1,000 adults found that their intelligence declined as tasks were interrupted by incoming e-mails and texts. The average reduction of 10 IQ points, though temporary, is more than double the four-point loss associated with smoking cannabis. A 10-point drop is also associated with missing a night of sleep, the report said."

In summary: Something which makes us both _read_ and _write_ makes us _dumber_, but something which encourages us to sit passively and simply absorb and react makes us _smarter_.

Is anyone thinking of that scene in _Sleeper_, where Woody Allen's told that eating beef and sugar and smoking cigarettes are among the healthiest things you can do?

It all makes sense now
Jim: I think Harlan was saying that he hates Minnie Pearl, and for that, who can really blame him?

PAB

The ribbon has run out for Cleveland Typewriter
Harlan...

This article appeared in Monday's Cleveland Plain Dealer:

http://www.cleveland.com/cuyahoga/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/cuyahoga/1114421574254150.xml

I used to take typewriters to the downtown branch of Cleveland Typewriter for repair and cleaning before switching over to the devil machine. I figure it's within the realm of possibility that, back in the day, you used their services as well.

If you can't get to the article via the above link, let me know and I'll clip the article for you.

Tony

Far-reaching implications

And lo, didst I see a mushroom cloud emerge from the south.

And the crossdresser said unto me:

"That the Harlan be, and his stack doeth blow. Alloweth me to change into slacks 'til the fallout reacheth background levels."

So let it be written, so let it be done;
in Washington, as it is in California.

King: I saw Even Dwarfs Started Small, by Herzog. I... I'm not sure what to think about that film. I just sorta watch it and then go into a coma. But since I've watched it more than once, I can't say I hate it... I can't... Hm. It's like a documentary in hell. But in an interesting way.

No matter what, I have to say "that poor monkey!"


Also afraid of Virginia Woolf (though I don't know why);
-Aaron

Hey Harlan-Spare An Opinion (or anyone else, really)?
Preface:
While this is directed at HE I'd love to read what anyone else has to say on the following:
I picked up a copy of Werner Herzog's "Incident at Loch Ness" and thought it was piss-your-pants-funny. You've written at length on the art of film (brilliant, shitty and otherwise) what is your "take" on Herzog? I feel that, as an artist, his talent vs. the "tall tales" have become blurred, perhaps as a dis-service to both (as was touch upon in the movie; can ya relate?).
Edward King

Misogyny?
As it was my reference to "Valerie" in an email to Rich (who I think Harlan means by his unnamed poster) that seems to have caused this whole ball to get rolling over on the SPIDER discussion thread, I thought I should at least note that the thread that caused Harlan's post is here --

http://harlanellison.com/heboard/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1066

and that it's about a lot of things related to "Valerie," most of them thoughtful and well-argued regardless of their conclusions and a few of them weird. As Barney walked into my cunning ploy and revealed that Harlan does indeed own a fire girasol ring with hypnotic powers, I think the thread's true purpose has now been served and my plans for world domination can proceed. Thanks, percodan-addled Barney!

Cheers, Jon

I'm looking forward to "Valerie" being adapted as an episode of the next SIN CITY movie.

Harlan - I'd believe it. About five, maybe six years ago, Northern Virginia's branches of the USPS finished 83rd in a best to worst ranking of regional postal service areas - out of 83. Since then, they've probably added half a million people (if not more), and if the post office is as effective as the highway department in dealing with expansion - well, it takes me an hour to go 18 miles in a good rush hour, and I should probably find a kid with a horse to take my mail cross-country. That said, the pending FinderDoug Box O' Goodies (TM) bound for your humble abode will have a little more postal oomph behind it, a'cause I'm gonna track it and make the monkey dance.

Oh, and - WHAT'D YOU SAY ABOUT MY MOMMA?!?

>So you see, Eric, you fucking umbrage-taking whiney paranoid<

Um, I'm not sure how to take this, given that your own responses to me and things I supposedly recently wrote but that you haven't read but have gladly taken Dannelke's spite-driven and totally fucked-wrong take on them have been kind of...umbrage-taking. Whiney, maybe. Paranoid...yeah, you come on a little persecuted yourself, HE.

I heartily suggest you FIND the thread, Harlan. It's not hard...maybe Barney can link it for you. You may be pleasantly suprised to find out that you are not the Evil Beast that your pal is telling you people are saying about you.

Trapped in my head, Eric

Harlan hates Pearl Bailey? He really IS a misogynist! Lynch the fucker!

ON A LIGHTER NOTE

DOUG: Thank you for the Case Western Reserve photos. Would you believe that you mailed them on the 22nd of March and they got to me today?

BOB: Thank you for the copies of The New York Sun containing Otto's column.

ANDY: Thank you for the copies of the San Diego Union-Tattler. And congratulations on kicking that corrupt mayor out of town.

BARNEY: Thank you ever so much for the Claire Chennault book, which arived here weeks ago, and for which I have been criminally tardy in acknowledging.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Saw a sneak preview of "Hitchhikers' Guide" over the weekend. My overall impression of it was that it was.... *Entertaining.

After a few days, my opinion has been revised to... *Mostly Entertaining.

Three Asterisks Out of Five.

GEEZ, ERIC, LIGHTEN UP!

TRY READING WHAT SOMEONE SAYS SAYS SAYS

NOT WHAT YOU THINK THINK THINK THEY SAID.

I never FOUND the fucking thread, you dimwit. I never read a word you wrote. It is CLEAR CLEAR CLEAR that I was paraphrasing Barney. And as obnoxious and spiteful as you often are, at no time did I say I don't like you, hard as you constantly try to make that a reality.

Save your impecations for someone who gives a shit, Eric. I was merely paraphrasing what Barney said on the phone. I looked and looked, but couldn't figure out which forum thread you'd been infesting. So you see, Eric, you fucking umbrage-taking whiney paranoid, who loves to dish it out but clearly cannot take it,I wasn't even dealing with YOUR comments, because I hadn't (and still haven't) seen them. I was dealing with the whole goddam pain in the ass assertion/reassertion/re-re-assertion/restatement/reiteration for the thousandth time by parvenus and marmadukes that I am a misogynist.

Geezus, Martin, would I hate to live in YOUR head.

Harlan Ellison

Re Harlan's Misogny Notice
Even Judi?

I should qualify...upon re-reading these screeds, Harlan, you didn't twist my words, you just repeated (and I presume believed) Dannelke's twisting of them.

While I know he is your pal, Barney does not always limit himself to the objective truth, so you might want to go and read the thread yourself, before you assume I (or anyone else) made the statements that he said we did.

Because we didn't.

>and good old Eric Martin flexed on in to second the motion, saying, 'See, see, see!! I TOLD you a million times that Ellison is a misogynist, that at core he really hates women..<

That is NOT what I said, not in the slightest. God, Harlan, you don't like me, fine, but don't twist my words into something else. You value honesty, then be honest, stop this cheap fucking around and either ignore the thread or address the issues.

What I said was that gee, Rich comes in and makes some assertions and gets a pass, I make tamer ones and get fried. I said nothing about "see, see, I was right, Harlan hates women" or any of that. And I never said that in the original fracas, either.

It's just so lame that you would suggest that, Harlan...really disappointing. The words are there for everyone to see...why you would try to twist them just to make me look like an ass, well, fine, that's the general level of discourse around here, and you have certainly lowered yourself to it.

Hah! I'm over on the other side of the fence doing a finger painting and the box-house is crooked and all the cars look like volvos and the sun is lopsided and HE's over here painting the Sistine Chapel. Hah!

- Barney

Feelingnopainwhatsoever, PA.

Geez! Harlan! Lighten up!
It might be true...but hey....why is it we of the male species spend nine wet and sloppy months in a place, where we take the rest of our lives to get back in once we get out? Now that is a mystery! It's like trying to understand them...no matter what we do and how much we try it is a given....MAN WAS NEVER MEANT TO UNDERSTAND WOMEN!

NEKKID MISOGNY: a shocking confession

So I had occasion to call Barney the Gimp, lying up in his bed'o pain, just abaft the voodoo ministrations of the Wellness Apparat what did a tuck'n'roll on his tendon, whatever. And we
schmooz for a couple, and Dannelke says (something like), "I went into the thread forum where they're talking about your old essay, 'Valerie,' the memoir about the woman who stole your credit cards and watch, and someone said the essay proved that you hate women because the piece was allegedly, in his/her opinion, mean and hateful; and good old Eric Martin flexed on in to second the motion, saying, 'See, see, see!! I TOLD you a million times that Ellison is a misogynist, that at core he really hates women...'" and etcetera therefrom proceeding.

So it's time to pull the covers. To fess up.

It appears there are people who just will not quit:

They will continue to explain how the "good" Germans were simply against it all, and were duped.

They will continue to swear that flying saucers exist and are being hidden by the government.

They will continue to assert that Bacon or someone else wrote all of Shakespeare's works.

They will continue to aver that the Shroud of Turin bears the image of Christ, no matter how many times, how many ways, it has been debunked, including the confession of the hoaxer-artist who "created" it originally

They will continue to venture more and more wildly into the realms of conjecture, tortured "evidence" and intrinsic clues to prove that I am a misogynist, and that I hate women.

Well, I've decided at long last to come clean, finally to unburden myself of the cloak of propriety and political correctness; to cleanse my palate of the bitter taste of subterfuge.

Here is the truth.

Yes, I hate women. ALL women, from Ish-Lilith and Eve to Joan of Arc and Victoria Regina to Mae West and Anna May Wong to Katy Couric and j.lo ... without exception! Bane of humanity, scourge of mankind, evil pot roasts of flesh and lust! No woman who ever was born of woman or parthenogenesis deserved the breath of life. Salacious strumpets! Wretched trollops, all; dollymops of perfidy; vessels of mendacity and debauchery. Unclean! Unclean!

I hate them all. I hate my sister, I hated my mother, I hate YOUR mother, I hate mother of pearl, and Pearl herself; I even hate the art of Robert Motherwell. I hated each of my previous four wives and the literally hundreds of women I knew carnally in my hateful past. I hate my current spouse, Susan. I hate Lynn and Christine and Maggie and Ellen and Susan Knight (Paul Guay's wife) and Diane Dillon and Lee Hoffman and Kris Rusch and Tananarive and Julieanne Pogue and the wives of every male writer I ever met. I hate nurses, midwives, secretaries, CEOs and film execs, fortunetellers, ticket-takers, drossage experts, telephone repairpersons, spokeswomen, performance artists, strippers, basketball players, psychologists, saleswomen, pilots, wedding planners, dry cleaners, rice pickers, girl scouts, debutantes, ballroom dancers, grammarians nuns, bakers, balloon entertainers, did I mention ticket-takers, lazy susans, lady fingers, ladies in waiting, ladybugs, and ladies of the evening. Not to mention masseuses. And that annoying Coulter bitch.

If it's got a vagina, it vexes me. If it's got boobs, it bothers me. If it wears nylons, its noxious to me. If it's in a skirt, I'd like to scuttle it.

Can I even BE MORE CLEAR? No. I think not. I will not belabor it. You've found me out, o nameless reader of "Valerie," and o named Eric Martin. Now kindly piss off, and go find someone else to bedevil. You win: I loathe women and my loathesome writings are the public manifestation of that insensate rage.

Hatefully, yr. ladykiller, Harlan

---------------------------------------------------------------

Geeeeezus, already!

It's funny how many threads in the Pavilion get the bitch-slap nowadays, the Hitler fiasco the most recent example.

Oh, well. I'll try to make amends by bringing the Pavilion back to its PROPER topic of discussion, HE. I'll be posting my thoughts on THE DEATHBIRD very soon, for what they're worth.

Harlan,

"CAUTION: Assemble the cleaner before using."

Hey, do not take this wisdom for granted. Had I paid some heed to it myself, I'd actually have a clean carpet this very day!

RICK: Thankyouthankyouthankyou. This was becoming a place I did not want to visit.

CHUCK: "how about the ones that tell you IN VERY LARGE PRINT not to drive your car with the sunshield up." Oh, man. See, I bought my sunshield used, and it didn't have a tag. So I guess that's why I keep hitting shit.

ALEX: "I'm running out of Ellisonia to collect." Same here. I no longer have the leather-bound and signed "I, Robot" because it was given to me by an extremely unpleasant person (Harlan yelled at him within a minute of meeting him) who was trying to buy my wuv. I auctioned it off and sent him the cash. Do you have a copy of "Jokes Without Punchlines" yet? I desperately want one, but I don't have the two hundred. I had to type up a little file of all of Harlan's books so I could keep track of what I had and what I didn't. I was surprised to find I had three copies of "Spider Kiss." Oops. At least they're all different printings. I've got to wonder how much shelf space HE takes up in *your* house.

Amy

TODAY'S CHORTLE AT THE EXPENSE OF THE HUMAN RACE:

Harlan -
Many, many years ago I was employed at a very large Toy company with muppetlike giraffe as its mascot. There was a box of something (memory fails as to what exactly it was) which was clearly labeled "instructions inside".

The first line, I kid you not, on the printed instruction page was "For best results, do not open box".

Brian, Brian, Brian
Twice in seven hours?
"Happily, it's after midnight, so I'm not breaking the once-daily rule here. But this "Dan" fellow requires a reply."

THE RULE, WHICH YOU SHOULD KNOW BY NOW:
"One post per day per person. This includes any aliases or alternate personalities. The intent is to give the less frequent posters and new people room to be heard, so try to wait as close as possible to 24 hours before posting again. Please do not try to be clever and post late at night then early in the morning, then say "but it was different DAYS!" The ONLY exception is if YOU, specifically, are asked a DIRECT question from Harlan, or are given explicit permission for a double post. Followups to accidental sends or typos are frowned upon but grudgingly accepted - as long as they IMMEDIATELY follow the original post (no noticing it ten minutes later then posting a correction)."


This rule was created PRECISELY for people who seem to think that someone "requiring a reply" is an excuse to either find way to get around the rule or circumvent it. The end result, when you demand that your voice sound off more frequently, is that you drown out others that may want to be heard as well. You also encourage others by your example (such as this "Dan fellow" who broke the rules in posting twice in two hours replying to your rule-breaking reply). And the rule is ESPECIALLY appropriate when applied to circular mindfuck he-said-he-said you're-stupid-no-YOU'RE-stupid arguments like this one that have long since ceased having the slightest connection to Harlan Ellison.

Of course, that is no EXCUSE for Dan to break the rule even more flagrantly. SO. You guys obviously can't respect either the spirit OR the letter of the law. All of you are taking this over to the other board NOW, and Dan and Brian I hope you'll excuse yourself from here as well for whatever time you deem appropriate. This would also be an excellent time for anyone else who is unclear on the rules to read them.

And just in case I haven't been clear, if I see ONE MORE POST here about Nazis and poll numbers and whether the German people loved Hitler like a cute little lab puppy or feared him like a big scary tree I am going to go Judge Crater on whoever makes it.

Jesus von jesus, enough already!
Gentlemen, how many people have to point out this isn't the I-Was-Not-A-Nazi-Polka Debate Board before it moves over to the other board? And now we're getting uploads from Worldnetdaily? Enough! Seven times enough! I've spent as much time debating these things as anyone, but not here --this is Harlan's Dining Room, remember? There's another place for this stuff. Jan and Dan: Move 'em out, boys, move 'em out!

Speaking of Harlan, I just got hold of a copy of the multiply-signed MEDEA: HARLAN'S WORLD, at a price that was, of course, a multiple of the original, but still very far below the prices the rare book dealers are asking. I'm running out of Ellisonia to collect. If I go cold-turkey, will I start reading Tom Clancy novels or listening to Barry Manilow?

4th Reich in Ganja Land
I anguished - not an understatement - over whether or not to
post this here. I've never posted here before. I have been a fan of Harlan Ellison's since I was a kid, 60s, 70s then especially through the 80s when suddenly there was a 'new feeling in the land' and he was one of the few who accurately read the temperature of the times; it wasn't a fever that was 'breaking' at the end of the 70s it was a fever that was just beginning to rise.
Still I feel akward so I'm sorry if this is seen as rude but I decided to post this because I saw some talk of Nazis and I thought this might be something some of you, who aren't aware of it, might not mind hearing about and also because I am despairing over it, trying to do what little I can to make a difference. At this point it's been decided that the best way to proceed is to get more international attention on the situation-so that's what I'm out here on the web doing. Also, I guess I'm hoping Mr. Ellison himself might take a look at this; it illustrates just how out of proportion
and heartless, without pity or compassion and removed
from reality our fever has driven us. The young lady at the center of this tragedy is not an addict; she doesn't
even use drugs; tests and interviews with friends have
proven this. She is also not guilty but that shouldn't matter.
I think everybody should be praying for her.
Here is my post:
Execution by firing squad or life in prison for
marijuana; those are 2 fates that may await 27 year
old beauty student Schapelle Corby.
This is a heartbreaking case.
The terrible ordeal Schapelle Corby has endured in
Bali has, up until now, recieved little or no coverage
here in the US.
Within 48 hours of actor Russell Crowe stepping up to
the plate in Schapelle's defence the article posted
below appeared in American media. It is unusual for
Mr. Crowe to inject himself into such a case and her
family is very grateful. His presence will no doubt
bring a lot of needed international attention to
Schapelle's plight. This article below gives a pretty
good run-down of where things stand today.
If you examine the info gathered about this case,
(available from sources other than this article), you
will see there is pretty good reason to believe she is
not guilty. Even if she is guilty neither the firing
squad nor life imprisonment should be on the table of
possible penalties for a marijuana conviction. She has
been held in Kerobakan prison with terrorist suspects
in the Bali bombing under extremely harsh conditions
since last October. She has been very ill with
dysentery, forced to use the toilet in a crowded cell
in blazing humid heat. She has literally had to be
carried weeping into the court - too ill and terrified
to walk - where she has collapsed twice, one time
fainting into the arms of her interperter. Each time
her condition was so severe the proceedings were
canceled. Judges ordered she be seen by a doctor - and
she was - 5 days later. Throughout all of this her
physical health has deteriorated significantly and the
once vibrant and beautiful young woman now appears to
have aged 20 years. She can only sleep when given
medication, (drugs), by prison staff.
She belongs in a hospital not a jail.
As you read this she is preparing her final plea "from
the heart" which she will try to deliver to the court
on Thursday. She will be sedated, (again with 'drugs'
given to her by the court), because as her lawyers
report she is under such stress and in such a
precarious emotional state that she may be unable to
speak. After that the prosecution has a final turn -
then it's up to the judges to convict and sentence or
acquit.
This is the face of a casualty of the drug war and if
you want to help there's ways to do it. After you've read the article there is a page linked below that will take you to several online petitions. Please sign them if you are so inclined.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43959

Petitions:
http://www.schapellecorby.com/petitions.htm

Jan, the Goldhagen debate seems to have stuck itself on here, although I still say that's a different topic...alleged widespread German support of Jewish persecution and murder...than a general public support of Nazi government and foreign policy.

I stick by the 90%. If you went back in time to about 1935-42, and took a poll, 9 out of 10 Germans would be happy with Adolf Hitler and the job he was doing. Maybe they wouldn't be happy about the wars, but to say that they were all brain-washed and cowed into submission is too easy. Dictators become what they are through adoration and support...Mussolini had huge public numbers too, as did Mao and Stalin. Later, as the regimes crumble and the excesses get violent, the support drops away, and suddenly everyone was a closet democrat, and everyone was secretly against the regime.

As far as "punishing" the Germans...for what? Murdering Jews? Who are you going to punish. Neither Hitler nor his Nazi elite, as far as I know, ever actually killed anyone. Nor did the middle-management toads like Eichmann or Heydrich. It was the grunts who did the shooting and the gassing, under orders, to be sure. So do you punish the whole society? Well, we did, and they continue to punish themselves. That's not the debate here.

Brian Siano, who seems an unlovely fellow, likes to call people "kid" and be patronizing/insulting in general, so I'm not going to bother arguing with him anymore. Tell you what Jan, give me a few days, and I'll try to find figures that back my "90% claim."

HARLAN, just out of curiosity, have you read any Elmore Leonard?

KEN, rest assured, I was not trying to paint you as something you're not, I was just trying to find out what you were trying to say. If you're saying that Germans supported Hitler with immense enthusiasm without including a word about his manipulation tactics, then (in my view) you're also saying that they (kind of) deserved what they got. I was trying to find out if that was indeed the attitude behind your statements. Don't say I'm using illegitimate tactics.

You're slowly backing down from your claims without being open about it. One day there is no doubt about something, all the literature supports your made-up 90% figure, the next day you're only "pretty confident" etc. It's fine with me, if you want to be like that, but this is not the kind of subject you can do it with.

I wish I could say something substantial about the Goldhagen debate. It is a book that received way too much attention, there have been many more thourougly fact-checked and unbiased books about the period. Unfortunately, "German-bashing" tends to attract audiences in the US and Britain (there have been scientific studies about aspects of this). The amount of information and documents we have about the war surely is enough to provide support for any opinion.

The attitude that Germans were/are somehow different from other human beings and more susceptible to commit war crimes, mass slaughter etc. probably has it's roots in early 20th century hate and simplification and that's where it belongs.

(This is probably my last post on the subject, I've had my say, and some people feel this is not the right place. Personally, I always feel it's good to keep this place alive with varied discussion that takes its natural course.)

Ugh! Those damnable instruction booklets
Hey Harlan;

It shouldn't surprise you...all those books of instructions that come with products YOU have to put together, were written by people who never put any of the products together! Not too surprising they put the instructions in the books in five languages to really f*ck people over. But....I guess we chalk that up to progress.

Norman Finkelstein is, in fact, a disciple of David Irving whom he has referred to on numerous occasions as an authoritative historian.

http://www.rense.com/general8/intv.htm "When [Finkelstein] calls David Irving "a good historian", despite Irving's claim that no gas chambers for killing Jews existed at Auschwitz, he demonstrates his inclination to support this line of revisionist revelation. Here Finkelstein signals that the gas-story will be next on the agenda destroying the holocaust industry."

Finkelstein was fired from two New York teaching jobs (at New York University and Hunter College) because of his pseudo-scholarship. His so-called ferreting out of historical frauds ought to be appplied to his own work which has far more to do with a fascist ideology than any attempt to achieve historical accuracy. It's true that Finkelstein's own parents are Holocaust survivors which he has exploited for a long time to legitimize his own anti-Semitism.

Happily, it's after midnight, so I'm not breaking the once-daily rule here. But this "Dan" fellow requires a reply.

Yes, my source on Goldhagen's book is Norman Finkelstein. Finkelstein's essay/monograph _A Nation on Trial_ goes into considerable detail on how Goldhagen's arguments are based on misreadings of established historical sources, poor argument, faulty logic, and generally poor scholarship. It is a well-researched and responsible book.

And Dan has posted an ugly and reprehensible smear by asserting that Finkelstein is one with David Irving. He asserts that "Goldhagen's most vocal attackers (absolute frauds like Norman Finkelstein and David Irving) are routinely cited by promoters of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and every Holocaust denial neo-Nazi web site on earth." That's not surprising: those cretins will seize upon anything that remotely seems to support their lunacies.

But this rests upon the logic of the smear: since Finkelstein critizes Goldberg, and the Holocaust deniers criticize Goldberg, then Finkelstein is no better than a Holocaust denier. By Dan's logic, most of us must support Al Qaeda because we criticize George Bush.

Irving, in case y'all don't know, is a British historian whose work has been devoted to rehabilitating the Third Reich. He'd cultivated a strange reputation as a man who could gain access to long-hidden documents regarding the Reich, mainly because of his professed sympathy with Fascism. Even respected historians, while denouncing his conclusions, admitted his abilities in these areas. During a recent libel trial he'd thrown against Deborah Lipstadt, however, historians examined Irving's work and found it to be replete with misrepresentations, biased selections, and willful misreadings of the record, all tending to give the Nazis the benefits of any doubts.

David Irving is a dishonest and unscrupulous fraud who makes common cause with neo-Nazi groups and promotes Holocaust "revisionism" when he thinks no one is looking. Finkelstein, by contrast, is a respected researcher whose parents are Holocaust survivors. (He's also had a good track record in ferreting out historical frauds: his exposure of Jean Peters' _From Time Immemorial_ as such is a good example.) To mention him as an "absolute fraud" alongside of David Irving is... well, let's just say I don't expect much integrity from "Dan."

I just made a nice, comfy thread over in THE OTHER PLACE so we could continue the discussions about Hitler, etc. without burning out the scroll bar over here. I laid out some nice throw pillows, coffee tables, some wine and sponge cake. I also threw in some fully loaded super soakers. Knock yourselves out!

Chuck

P.S. Speaking of instructions for dumbasses, how about the ones that tell you IN VERY LARGE PRINT not to drive your car with the sunshield up.

Notice how Siano dismisses Goldhagen's brilliant study "Hitler's Willing Executioners" as "not a reliable guide to the subject" without citing any evidence (as he accuses Ken of doing) whatsoever to support his ridiculous and easily refuted claim.

http://www.goldhagen.com/contents.html

In considering Brian's evaluation of Goldhagen's work it is revealing that Goldhagen's most vocal attackers (absolute frauds like Norman Finkelstein and David Irving) are routinely cited by promoters of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" and every Holocaust denial neo-Nazi web site on earth.

Ken writes:

"I simply stated that Hitler and his goverment had the overwhelming support of the non-Jewish German people for their foreign policy, until he began losing the war. I'm pretty confident that the historical facts support me on this. "

Before you demand that _we_ take a forensics class, kid, you may want to provide some actual _evidence_ for your assertions. I mean, if you're so confident about what the "historical record" says, then by all means, _provide_ it for us.

Until then-- do NOT get all pissy and moany when we don't take your word for the facts.

After all, Ken, your original statement was "there is also no doubt that "his followers" were about 90% of the German people." No doubt? Ken, your assertion-- which was _not_ restricted to Hitler's foreign policy, as you can see-- is ridiculous on its face. When have you ever heard of 90% of any population being so supportive of a leader? Perhaps in a hive-state like North Korea, possibly, but that's after forty years of isolation, propaganda, and state terror.

But look at recent history, Ken. You made a wild and unsupportable statement of historical fact. We took issue with it, and some of us even cited references. Instead of admitting that maybe you were just talking through your hat, you complain that we'd distorted your point (not true), that the historical evidence will support your claim (and you haven't provided any evidence beyond your say-so), and generally wimped out on us.

May I suggest a few references? Ian Kershaw's recent biography of Hitler is a good start. Kershaw also wrote _Popular Opinion and Political Dissent in the Third Reich_, which seems to be on topic here. (Daniel Goldhagen's _Hitler's Willing Executioners_ is not a reliable guide to the subject, BTW.)

Found Scrolls and Lost Highways
Ben:

Maybe the action comes where Bill Pullman plays that saxophone. His playing rivals that weird guy in Thunderdome for energetic but awkward saxiness.

Papyrus lovers:

If anyone here is interested in the biblical implications of the Oxyrhynchus Papyri might also want to look up the Nag Hammadi Library. Not exactly a new discovery, but people tend not to talk about it very much unless they're bible scholars. I won't recommend links because all the ones I've seen so far aren't very scholarly.

Harlan:

I think it might be interesting to see what happens if the vacuum cleaner is not assembled. Perhaps its component parts are merely other appliances, but they don't tell us that lest we stop buying every damn little thing we think we need.

On second thought, perhaps that little black hole they put in vacuum cleaners will escape. Better follow the directions.

-A

>The vibe I keep getting from you is that Germans deserved what happened to them<

Utter crap. If you're getting that vibe, it's not from my text, it's from your own interest in painting me a certain way.

I simply stated that Hitler and his goverment had the overwhelming support of the non-Jewish German people for their foreign policy, until he began losing the war. I'm pretty confident that the historical facts support me on this.

I didn't say anything about the Holocaust or the persecution of the Jews (despite Brian Siano's bizarre efforts to claim I did), nor I did make any value judgements or say the Germans deserved to be be bombed because of their support of Hitler's aggressive military policy (despite your efforts to suggest I did, Jan).

You guys need to take a refresher course on forensics. Your tactics would flunk any high-school meet.

Fascinating. The discussion seems to boil down to "Were Germans enthused about Hitler?" And like every majour question in life, the answer seems "Yes and No."

During times of crisis, people tend to rally behind their leader. Germany was in crisis, and Hitler was a stabilizing factor. He could make the trains run on time, and create employment. So people flocked to him.
That doesn't mean everyone was an ardent Nazi or fanatical Jew hater.
Of course, there was the misinformation, lies, propaganda, and the repression. There was also a strong current of nationalism that cut off dissent before it began. "My country, right or wrong."

The sentiment exists everywhere.

Now I don't want to compair George W. to Hitler 'cause I don't like such simplifications, HOWEVER:

listen to the neo cons, the O'Rilleys and the Coulters. Listen to their hatred of both foriegners and liberal dissenters and imagine what the state would be like under THEM. Even if it doesn't come to Naziism, it's ugly, it has to be resisted. It has to be recognized early and nipped or else it becomes entrenched, and then it's too late to do anything about it.

So if there is a crime for which collective responsibility can be assigned, it is inaction and apathy.

But that doesn't resolve anything does it?

I myself probably would not have bombed Dresden. I don't hold the populations colelctively responsible. But when far -right groups demand revenge for Dresden, I;ve got to step in and say: "You guys have no moral basis for demanding revenge." dito the self pittying Japanese.

I had a point somewhere, I forgot what it was.

Who's responsible? To what extend can the whole group be held accountable? To what extent was the WHOLE group responsible?

How about questions of revenge: Mass pillage and rape by the Red Army. Justified? Worse than allied firebombing campaigns?
How about Polish ethnic cleansing in East-Prussia?

The head spins.

The moral barriers break down. The lines get blurred. The situation has to be avoided, it must not be repeated. At least the Germans have tried learning from history. What else can be done?

-Steve E.

(Who wants to discuss minutae on the other board? I'm game!)

CODIFYING THE CREATIVE ACT
ALL: Taped VH1's new installment of "Storytellers" while I was at a highschool play last night -- mainly because Bruce Springsteen was the feature artist, although I was interested in seeing what the show was about (never watched it before).

I know _anybody_ who ecstatically recommends something to you should be taken with a grain of salt, but...may I ECSTATICALLY recommend all of you watch this show? (I know it was being reaired sometime today, and if you've already missed it, VHI will reair it on Tuesday night).

Although I've only been talking to artists -- in the fields of music, sculpture, painting and writing -- about their craft for a short time now, I feel secure in saying that on VH1's StoryTellers Bruce Springsteen articulates the creative process like few before him (the format is such that he plays a song and then explains the lyrics; or sometimes he plays, explains a verse & chorus; plays again; explains again, etc). He plays and dicusses the lyrics of six different songs. And while he sometimes seems to be struggling to explain a particular line in "Devils & Dust" (a new song from his forthcoming CD) or a feeling in "Thunder Road," Springsteen is spot-on and amazingin soulful, articulate and humorous when talking about "Blinded By the Light," "Brilliant Disguise" (one of my favorites), "The Rising" (ditto) and "Jesus Was an Only Son" (another new song from his forthcoming album).
All of the songs are played on an acoustic guitar or a piano, so the volume won't be a turn-off to anyone. The last time I heard someone articulate his creative process so brilliantly was when listening to John Irving and/or Harlan Ellison talk about the craft of writing.
The VH1 episode featuring Springsteen is great stuff; and anyone interested in writing should check it out.

Informationally,
The Man

Had an interesting moment a few days ago at a video store. A very poorly maintained video store, I might add. I saw a copy of David Lynch's LOST HIGHWAY in the ACTION section. Literally -the front of the cover had the sticker "ACTION" plastered on it.

Can you imagine the first poor dumb bastard who would pick up this movie expecting a Steven Seagal bone-cruncher, and get Bill Pullman mutating into Blathazar Getty instead? Can you imagine their slack-jawed, bug-eyed reaction? Because I am. And I'm smiling.

>The Germans were immensely enthused about the attacks on Poland and France, and eagerly enlisted to attack Russia as well.

You lack historical understanding. I asked you before what the significane of what you're saying is supposed to be, if we suppose for a moment that it's true. The vibe I keep getting from you is that Germans deserved what happened to them. That they deserved to die in large numbers because they chose to back politics they supposedly had a grasp of.

The truth of the matter is, like I said before, and like Brian says, Germans were subject to the effects of a propaganda and education machine that was in operation for 12 years. For example, most Germans were not "immensely enthused" about attacking Poland, since they only heard about it afterwards, and the official story was that Poland had attacked Germany and that Hitler had therefore decided to fight back. Fake film footage of the Polish attack was produced and so forth.

In general, Hitler and his staff lied to the German public as well as to the troops and to foreign governments.

There was some enthusiasm for the general idea to get back territories that formerly belonged to Germany. Borders were always in flux at the time and it was seldom clear who could legitimately claim what areas. This explains some rationalization on the part of the population for the attack on Poland (which had been artificially created by the victors of WWI on territory that had in part been German), although Hilter's real intentions were consciously kept secret.

A Boy and His Dog

If, for some bizarre reason, you have never seen this ginchy li'l film, it will be on tv shortly:
3:25 a.m. (EASTERN), Monday 5/2 on Flix.

This is the letterboxed version. Well worth your time if you haven't seen it, have been too lazy to pick up the DVD, or simply like watching movies on tv. It ain't the story, but it's still pretty cool.

Amy

Is the

Okay, maybe I'm an easy mark, but the Houston Press interview of Dairy Queen spokesman Chad Durasa linked in this article had me laughing like a madman: http://www.slate.com/id/2117270/

TODAY'S CHORTLE AT THE EXPENSE OF THE HUMAN RACE:

DEPT. OF INCREDIBLE STUPIDITY DEPT.:

Susan bought a new vacuum cleaner off QVC. A Eureka 4870 upright
that arrived in eight pieces. Necessary assembly required. Page
5 of the Owner's Guide -- HOW TO ASSEMBLE -- actual quote, first line of instruction:

"CAUTION: Assemble the cleaner before using."

>In summary, Ken, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're running solely on the fumes of poseur righteousness. <

A debate is one thing, name-calling another. Brian, you seem to have trouble distinguishing between the two.

Again, I was commenting on the support for the war effort, which came from someone's story about a bombed building. The Germans were immensely enthused about the attacks on Poland and France, and eagerly enlisted to attack Russia as well. The whole culture was behind the expansion, and any reading if military history will make this clear...this was not a war effort forced on an unwilling or cowed public. It was not until he began losing that Hitler started suffering in poularity.

The extermination camps and abuse of the Jews is something else entirely...my read is that most Germans just turned a blind eye to it, or to what they knew of it.

PAINTING THE BUTTON --- PART TROIS

JOHN:

Ah whaddahell, let's take a run at it. If you can get your postal address to me via Webmaster Rick Wyatt, who'll paass it on, I will simply mail you the cellulose-covered pinback McShit button. Take a look at it, see if you can spiff it up without too much effort (it's actually a small job and, to my semi-educated artistic eye, relatively uncomplicated, and let me know at this site.

Thank you. Harlan

Ken Roche writes, "quoting Werner Klemperer and citing 1933 poll results doesn't convince me that the bulk of the German (non-Jewish) people weren't solidly behind Hitler up until he began losing the war."

There's a lot of bad reasoning here. First of all, Ken, you're backing off from your "90 percent" estimate down to an ill-defined "bulk." I'll take that as evidence that my point was somewhat persuasive.

Second, I'd like to know what research you've done that could offset the testimony of Klemperer-- who had the experience of having _been_ there, and lived there as an outsider. Granted, no one person's word is the one that ends the discussion... but I'm more than a little surprised that you would be as dismissive as you are. Especially since you offer very little atcual evidence for your earlier "90%" claim.

"The discussion was about the war and the Nazi governance, not the Holocaust, so your reference to Goldhagen's book is irrelevant. That's another can of worms, entirely."

"While he may not have gotten 90% of the vote in 1933, it's a pretty safe argument that he had the overwhelming love and support of the German people for most of his run. They willingly sacrificed themselves and their country for his aims. There was no substantive majority of people opposed to the goverment, especially after 1937. To suggest that a large percentage of Germans were sitting around at home, secretely wishing for another leader, is just wrong."

Here Ken indulges in a fairly dishonest argument. He begins by attempting to separate the Holocaust from the war and governance. Yet it is the Holocaust, the state-run program of mass murder, that marks the special evils of the Nazi regime-- the one issue on which we look at Germany and wonder how people could be so supportive of it.

The answer to this is that the Final Solution was conducted with as much secrecy as possible-- even the internal documents used euphemisms rather than overt terms about mass murder. This is established fact. This isn't so say most Germans were ignorant of the project-- word got out, along with rumor, terror, and dread. In other words, the distinction Ken mentions has some truth to it.

But the distinction goes against his original point. The fact is, the distinction indicates that most Germans were _not_ rabidly enthusiastic supporters of Hitler to the degree that Ken argued earlier. The support Hitler had was as mixed as the support Stalin may have enjoyed-- borne of a mixture of terror, of hopelessness over any alternatives, and the resigned sense that maybe a strongman is needed.

Ken doesn't look at these nuances. Instead, he asserts that Hitler's support was tat of "overwhelming love and support." The lack of a "substantive majority to oppose Hitler" is cited as evidence of ths overwhelming love-- the fact that the Nazis outlawed opposition parties, and murdered political dissidents, is ignored by Ken with revolting convenience. Ken also states that Germans "willingly sacrificed their lives and their country" for him. It's more accurate to say that their lives and country were sacrificed by Hitler; by Ken's logic, every reservist in Iraq adores and loves George Bush, and wholeheartedly supports the invasion without a shred of doubt.

In summary, Ken, you have no idea what you're talking about, and you're running solely on the fumes of poseur righteousness.

Ken: >To suggest that a large percentage of Germans were sitting around at home, secretely wishing for another leader, is just wrong.

I don't think Brian suggested that.

First of all, it was not clear yesterday what you meant by "followers". The soldiers, for example, who followed his (relayed) orders weren't neccessarily political followers. We all know that soldiers would often be fighting on the other side, if only they had been born and raised on the other side of the border. The idea was to fight for the home country (a social norm at the time), given that the war had broken out. All soldiers had to swear allegiance to the leader, and it's hard to distinguish the fact that they defended the country from inner agreement with Hitler's goals or methods. Hitler was crazy and you had to be pretty crazy as well to be in complete agreement with him. The reality, in my view, was that people were defending their country and followed Hitler mostly as a determined, charismatic leader, not so much because of his specific goals, which were never very clear - they don't make much sense even in retrospect, now that we can look at all his speeches carefully.

Then there's the question what significance there is to what you say. Even if we suppose that all Germans at the time were behind Hitler, what would that mean, given that people had been told lies for years and could hardly form their own opinions? There was no independent press, no independent art, no opposition, no internet. In the army there was certainly a growing number supporters of Hitler's plans to exterminate the Jews, thanks to the strong, Hilter-nurished anti-semitism of the time and social pressure, but much of Hitler's politics was devoted to making his people do what he personally wanted. So if you're saying that 90% of the populace fully supported Hitler, it does *not* signify, in my opinion, that there would have been concentration camps and a world war without Hitler. Anti-semitism was strong in many western countries (including the US), but only under the leadership of Hitler did politics, propaganda and laws turn irrationally against the "Jews" (a lot of them were normal Germans). The decision to invade Poland was also made by Hitler, it had nothing much to do with what Germans wanted, who did have other problems and had lost another war not long ago. I suppose that the people and soldiers were hoping that there was some kind of sound plan behind it and that all goes well. You cannot say or suggest that 90% of Germans were ideologically behind attacking countries on all sides for a crazy man, exterminating all Jews, and not surrendering when the war was lost.

Harlan: I'm really sorry about that. I didn't realize when I was setting the site up that it requires Macromedia's Flash 7 player to view it. I still have no idea why as there's no animation on it. The Flash Player IS free and you can download it from Macromedia's website at http://www.macromedia.com/shockwave/download/download.cgi?P1_Prod_Version=ShockwaveFlash.
If you don't wanna mess around with all that stuff it's easy enough for me to put a bunch of images onto a CD ROM or put some slides together and mail 'em to HERC.

Take care
-John

To Brian Siano: quoting Werner Klemperer and citing 1933 poll results doesn't convince me that the bulk of the German (non-Jewish) people weren't solidly behind Hitler up until he began losing the war.

The discussion was about the war and the Nazi governance, not the Holocaust, so your reference to Goldhagen's book is irrelevant. That's another can of worms, entirely.

While he may not have gotten 90% of the vote in 1933, it's a pretty safe argument that he had the overwhelming love and support of the German people for most of his run. They willingly sacrificed themselves and their country for his aims. There was no substantive majority of people opposed to the goverment, especially after 1937. To suggest that a large percentage of Germans were sitting around at home, secretely wishing for another leader, is just wrong.

PAINTING THE BUTTON

JOHN PACER:

Sir: I would take you up on your timely and kind offer, but like many another artist or photographer or sculptor whom I've had occasion to consider recently, you've installed some complex and au courant piece of electronic gimcrackery on your referred website...and I don't have access to the e.rosetta stone to decode the terrain. You are off-limits to me, sadly.

You sound like just the guy I'm looking for, but you've put yourself outta the reach of people like me who maintain (at best) only the most rudimentary pc equipment. By choice.

If you have a solution to this conundrum that doesn't involve me futzing around with gadgetry, by all means let me know.

Harlan Ellison

Paula: It's been over a decade since I read it, but that sure sounds like Gardner Dozois's "A Kingdom By The Sea."

(Give me a call this weekend, okay? We need to catch up . . .)

My boyfriend told me that Harlan Ellison came up in his Fiction Writing class today. They talked about a story in which a man who works in a slaughterhouse looks into the eyes of a cow and realizes that it is his true love, but cannot stop the sledgehammer from coming down. Can anyone tell me which story this is? It didn't ring any bells for me.

Thanks.

PAB

Harlan: I actually happen to be a fine artist/illustrator. I have a website showcasing my various styles at http://johnpacer.xbuild.com. You can check it out and see if you find me capable of the job. I'd be more than happy to do it.

-John

Harlan,

If you can get me something to work with, I would be happy to try and recreate it for you and but it into a button.

Harlan - I'm a wizard with the material goods, but I suck at finding providers of high quality artistic services. All the people I know are deviant videographers - great if you have a snoop job, need a video will, or want to shoot a snuff film, but totally unqualified for precision brush strokes. Sorry.

I do, however, have an unannounced consolation prize winging its way to you this week. Sure, it doesn't help with THIS...

HARLAN ASKS FOR ASSISTANCE --- ATTN: FLYING BLUE MONKEYS

One of my favorite display pinback buttons, protruding from the bookshelf above my typewriter, has a white background featuring a replication in yellow of The Golden Arches with the blue logo "McShits" across it. Nothing else.

The sun has faded the colors. Still quite clear, but faded.I need someone with a fine, precise touch to repaint the logo and arches. It is a simple job, but one that requires patience, artistry, and a VERYVERYVERY steady hand with acrylics and a one-or-two-bristle brush.

Can anyone out there (FinderDoug?) direct me to the appropriate, available artisan?

I would be grateful; and, of course, would pay the painter.

Yr. pal, Harlan

>But I can say that many people overseas often think _every_ American is behind the current President, his administration and the overwhelmingly conservative congress.

Unfortunately, that tends to happen in some circles, probably has to do with the fact that few people over here would have voted for Bush in the first place and even fewer people would have re-elected him. Germany and France, for example, were totally against the war and Bush's environmental policy. Bush didn't seize power, he was granted power in a democratic process, and he represents something a lot of Americans want. Still, the ability to distinguish between the population and their leader is also very present. I mean, for example, everyone here knows who Michael Moore is, and he's like a walking anti-Bush statement. We know more about the US and it's people than Americans know about Europe (which is also more complicated).

ATC: "the tour guide's statement"

There is residual resentment from the war all over Europe, and I think that's only natural. What the tour guide probably meant was what you said yourself: "That particular bombing may have been ill-advised, or just malicious, or of little military value..." Certainly, what he said does not represent the attitude of all Germans then or now. We know there was a reason.

The allied air forces could easily have picked more important targets like the trains, train tracks leading to concentration camps, gas chambers etc. They knew those places existed, had aerial photos of them, and very soon there was no German air force to stop them from doing anything they wanted.

ATC: "a debatable point, as the overwhelming nature of that particular victory is in large part what enabled such a relatively smooth transition"

That's also a debatable point. It would have been enough to remove Hitler and his entourage. (Not that that was possible. Germans tried it too. It wasn't easy with Saddam, either.)

"the statement that the germans had no business being surprised remains accurate."

That statement, if you made it, has not been doubted by me or anyone else, if I'm not mistaken. In fact, the Germans weren't surprised. They were in a war and expected all kinds of bad things. It's not like someone here claimed that isn't so.

To Ken Roche: That's garbage.

For one thing, the last election permitted by the Nazis certainly didn't record a 90% landslide for Hitler as Chancellor. For another, the victory of the Nazis in that election was a) a very close thing, more the result of back room deals between German industrialists, and b) the result of years of terror through which the Nazis crushed opposition parties and ruined any organized efforts to stop them. (Ian Kershaw's recent biography of Hitler explicates this in terrific detail.)

In other words, a lot of Germans didn't like the Nazis. But opposing them tended to get you spirited away to a concentration camp, so a lot of Germans were effectively terrorized into doing nothing to oppose the regime. Please remember that the camps' first victims were political dissidents.

You may also want to read Victor Klemperer's diaries. Klemperer was a Jew who managed to avoid being sent to the camps because he was married to a Gentile. He kept scrupulous and detailed diaries with the intention to capture what life was like under the Nazi regime. You'll be amazed to find that many Germans would do Klemperer and his wife many small favors to help them survive, i.e., slip them extra food supplies, give them warnings of sweeps, etc.

Now, no one's saying that most Germans were secret Resistance members, each of whom kept a family of Jews in their attic while knifing stray SS officers every chance they got. But to go the other way, and state that all Germans were eager, Jew-hating, glad-to-hear-about-the-gas-chambers Nazis, is equally stupid. Sadly, this thesis gets too much attention: Daniel Goldhagen's _Hitler's Willing Executioners_ became a best-seller by promoting this point. It's about as subtle a Tom DeLay's pronouncements about liberals and the right to die.

That said, here's one of the most blackly funny photos I've ever seen in my life. http://img170.exs.cx/img170/6711/kitten1535fw.jpg

The political reality was that the Allies needed to convince Germany that it was not fucking around and would obliterate Germany if it didn't surrender the war. More than this the United States and Britain wanted to make it clear to Russia that they weren't above fighting dirty. The Cold War conflict had already begun with the collapse of the German forces and subsequent land grab from east and west. So big bombing raids on Germany were unfortunate, but as many of you have already observed, you don't win wars by being nice.

With that we can take this next door.

George Bush rationales
Being compared to the Smirking Chimp really irks me.

I note only this repetition of my two basic points: one, that an aggressor nation which bombs the shit out of innocent civilians shouldn't act all huffy and surprised when their civilians are bombed in return. Regardless of whether the allies SHOULD HAVE exercised more restraint -- a debatable point, as the overwhelming nature of that particular victory is in large part what enabled such a relatively smooth transition -- the statement that the germans had no business being surprised remains accurate.

Hence my father's reaction to the tour guide's statement,
"The Americans (bombed this building) for no reason."

It was a stupid statement.

A mindbogglingly stupid statement.

We sure as shit had a reason.

That particular bombing may have been ill-advised, or just malicious, or of little military value, but THE REASON was that at that point in history, we couldn't give less of a shit about respecting german historical landmarks. It was low priority. Truth to tell, we hated the fuckers, and wanted to kill as many of them as possible. And anybody on the Army General staff who opened his mouth and said, Well, you know, that cathedral has been there since 1532, or whatever, maybe we should give that bombing run a pass, would have been given the kind of look they would reserve for a guy who just lowered his pants and left a hot steaming crap on the conference room table.

World War Two, where the enemy really was evil incarnate, may test principles of "restrained" war to the breaking point, but even if not, the inevitability of a return strike is really a dangerous, but undeniable, aspect of human nature. Stung by 9/11, we went so nuts we didn't care whether we were bombing the right countries. Iraq had nothing to do with it? Well, fuck it, they're brown. Let 'em glow.

And as for whether the citizens of Iraq "should" or "would be right to" send 10,000 suicide bombers over here, to blow up OUR buildings and kill our children --

-- well, if you ask me, personally, I don't think they should. I, personally, think they should be more forgiving and understanding than that. That's my opinion. I'll bravely stick to it. I'll repeat it as often as I can. Even if I don't think they'll give it much weight.

But if they DO send suicide bombers over here, we'd have to be assholes to be SURPRISED. Or to say they did it "for no reason."

Their reason may not reflect a western view of global geopolitik.

But their dead children do qualify as "a reason."

We insult them by implying otherwise.

THE DISCUSSION ABOUT NAZIS GERMANY...
KEN, EARL, KEITH, RICH, TODD, etc: Fascinating discussion about Nazi-era Germany, etc. From the sublime (like Rich's post) to the knee-jerk (like Ken's post -- I use your post as an example Ken, because we'll never know for sure that 90 percent of those living in Germany were behind Hitler's actions all the way -- after the election, it quickly became a fascist state where children ratted out their parents, and vice-versa; or neighbors turned against neighbors).
My grandfather served as a courier in the German Army. He once gave food to some French prisoners; later, while ferrying some papers from one spot to another on his motorcycle, he was shot. Recognizing his name, those who shot him (French underground perhaps?) placed his still living body on the steps of a local church. When the truth about how he might have survived a possibly fatal wound came to light, my grandfather was given a choice: go work in the newly formed concentration camps (which, even around 1942 or 43, during a time of no TV and fewer radios than one might think, and unless you lived in a town right next to one, were often still believed to be good old-fashioned prisoner of war camps), or go to the Russian front. My grandfather apparently picked the concentration camps...at first. Not long after he persuaded higher ups to let him take the second choice. I was always told that my German grandfather never talked about anything that happened to him during his short stay at the concentration camp or while fighting on the Russian front. Not one word until the day, in 1996, still dealing with alcoholism, he blew his brains out with one of those "bangsticks" that they use to in slaughter houses. But history tells me that he most likely witnessed some horrible things; and that it is probably, at least on the Russian front, that my grandfather might have _done_ some horrible things (a fairly new, and interesting book, HITLER'S DEATH SQUADS by Richard Rhodes is recommended reading for all).
So was my grandfather a nice guy (the man who fed a French prisoner)? Or another willing cog in the monstrous Nazis machine (the man who fled the concentration camp for the Russian front)? Or was he, perhaps, what quite a few of the Germans from that era were: ordinary, fucked-up people (gotta check out their history, especially from WWI to WWII), who let themselves get caught up in what they thought was patriotism and turned out to be a nightmare? Worse, was he, like those the rest of those ordinary people, one of those men who didn't have the courage to resist an obviously tyrannical, murderous government machine? (My answer would definitely be yes to the last -- as for the other questions, the answers may have been carried to my grandfather's grave).
I won't draw any analogies between the war in Iraq and WII: that would be like comparing mistakes or saying one atrocity deserves another. But I can say that many people overseas often think _every_ American is behind the current President, his administration and the overwhelmingly conservative congress. One has to wonder if, years from now, some wag will look back and say 90% of the country was behind Dubya.
In any case, fascinating discussion. But I'm betting most of the folks might be thinking it's time to "take it to the other board." All in favor say, Aye.

Yours in information (perhaps too much of it this time),
The man.

>There is no doubt that Hitler and his followers had to be stopped.<

there is also no doubt that "his followers" were about 90% of the German people.

>>The horror of Germany during the Nazi reign was what they did to Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, the crippled, and everyone else who didn't look Aryan; NOT their desire for world domination.

I think it was pretty horrible of Nazi Germany to attack Poland, France, Britain, and Russia, just to pick a few highlights from its resume. There's many a soldier, airman, and sailor who could have lived a long, pleasant, and blameless life if that life hadn't been shot out of him by Nazi Germany trying to quench its desire for world domination.

My Knee Jerked!
I swear, my knee jerked.

AT-C: I'm sorry for coming on like that. My post was rude, and, as Todd pointed out, inaccurate.

Todd: Thanks for pointing out my falacy. I was actually outraged by the "the ends justify the means" basis of AT-C's rationale, but in my froth at getting my feelings down on paper, nothing but red showed up. You are right, obviously: the argument was never about vengeance. Why I gravitated toward that, I have no idea.

rich: Ditto about what I said to Todd. Which includes my somewhat disgusting example (and yes, no offense to the Real Chuck, here). In WWII, you didn't need to carpet bomb every city and suburb and village and church to stop the Nazi's. The argument can be made, and I make it. The horror of Germany during the Nazi reign was what they did to Jews, Homosexuals, Gypsies, the crippled, and everyone else who didn't look Aryan; NOT their desire for world domination. If world domination is bad, the Roman Empire was bad, too; and we should question ourselves. (and to bring up the analog between Iraq and Nazi Germany...while the scale is different, the analog holds up...Saddam was no friend to certain minorities in Iraq, and Saddam did try to invade, several times, neighboring countries).

-Keith

Because I am weak...
Last week, before the "surgeon" gutted me like a spring trout on a warm day I checked out this SIN CITY. The hag behind the counter had a hole where part of her neck was supposed to be. She said, "waddya want, kid?" and then took her finger off the blow hole and jammed in another camel. I said "one ticket for Sin City and keep your thoughts to yourself." She looked like she was going to hock a lunger at me but then remembered the plexi-glass. Didn't know for sure if it would protect me against alien-hag spit but I was glad it was there - just in case. She said eight bucks. I handed her 64 bits and stared at her until she handed me my sliver of paper. A day at the movies. Just like the old days. Maybe not.

The usher said something to me about my ticket stub. I hit him with the butt end of my gun. He burbled. I hit him again. He stopped burbling.

I took a seat near the center in the mostly empty theatre and said, "ok, do it to me." Then Frank Miller and all his cohorts started up with the lonely silver rain, like a long, drawn out leisurely piss on why I go see movies.

************************************************************

I could go on like that, but why bother. Spillane and Horace McCoy are easy to knock off, once they've shown you the way. Everybody else has commented on the technique and the costumes and the women [my god, the women] but at the end of the day I just like a little bit more story attached to all these pretty pictures. I'm not objecting to the blood or the violence. I'd read all the graphic novels as they came out so the content didn't suprise me. I just wanted more. It really wouldn't have killed Miller or anyone else involved for this script to go through some tweaking. Close your eyes and listen to that dialogue and then listen to an old DRAGNET or UNTOUCHABLES. It's only half-way there.

It's an interesting looking half - but it could have been so much more.

- Barney

ps. fans of the SPIDER will have a field day. Yes, I'm looking at you, Doug.

ATC: The basic problem then with people then and with what you say now is that you don't differentiate between the decisionmakers in Germany at the time and the public. If you say, the Allies had a right to pay back the bombing of London with interest, I certainly understand the feeling behind it, but a large part of the German population had had nothing to do with that decision and probably wasn't very interested in attacking an inconquerable Britain and whatever else Hitler had in mind. (In fact, it seems little known that the Nazi party itself had never received a majority vote or come very close to it despite the pressure they put on voters to win elections they arranged.) The bombing of Germany (and Japan) was to some degree, I feel, determined by the fact that the allies were capable of doing it, not because there were sound strategic concepts behind them or even because there was something in particular to retaliate. I don't have the numbers now, but the tonnelage of bombs dropped on Germany by British and US forces was something like twentyfold that of what the Nazis dropped on Britain. This cannot called retaliaton or "paying back with interest". (Nevertheless, sometimes retaliation was obviously the motive, as in the case of the first bombing of Lubeck, which was a reaction to the Nazi bombing of Coventry.) The bombings only became strategically useful very late in the war when they supplemented ground divisions (incidentally, this is shown in the movie DOWNFALL).

I think war unleashes stupidity and cruelty on every side, but in retrospect such elements should be recognized. The same goes for differentiating between population and leadership. Retaliation is tricky business. I want to make it clear, though, that I'm not defending what Germans did in the war at all. There is no doubt that Hitler and his followers had to be stopped.

"War is nothing but slaughter and you cannot refine it."-William Techumseh Sherman.

War has a vicious, upside-down logic to it. If you try to prosecute a war nicely, you prolong the war and more people die. When dealing with a violent, hateful opponent, you have to go after them with an absolute ruthlessness. Anything else would only give them an opening to get at you.

Fine. We went at Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan with such ruthlessness, with anger and even hate. Did we need to bomb Dresden? Hell, no. The city had no strategic significance whatever. It was a gratuitous act of destruction that accomplished nothing. The allies did it because they wanted the Germans to cry uncle. They didn't. "Our houses are broken but our hearts are not" was the watchword of many a citizen of Berlin.

Still, Germany and Japan got more bombs rained down on them by us because they lacked the technology to do the same to the allies. So, people looking back at this time might ask, "What was the difference between the Axis and Allies? They were both pretty destructive. They killed a lot of people. What made the allies 'better' than them?"

To begin with, the axis killed a lot more people than the allies did. This even though they had a fraction of the population, were geographical pygmies, didn't have the industrial capacity or the natural resources the allies did. They killed a lot more civilians. Twenty million Soviets. twenty-one million Chinese. People herded into death camps and subjected to diabolical germ warfare experiments. This was a special effort on the part of the Axis powers. They deliberately used disease and starvation as weapons of mass slaughter. They did it because they thought the best way to ensure the survival and safety of their people was to kill as many of the 'bad people' as possible. To exterminate them. Even after they won, after they conquered the country they invaded they kept right on killing. In the Ukraine, the German Army was welcomed by the people as liberators, given gifts of bread and salt. The Germans butchered them.

When the Allies won, they stopped killing. In fact, they went out of their way to KEEP people from dying from disease and starvation. This was a special effort on their part. Was it out of nobility? Perhaps it was, on the part of individuals. But not on the part of the leadership. They did it because they felt that the best way to insure their own nation's safety and security was to SAVE as many lives as possible. The U.S. certainly didn't show any signs of nobility when they bought the germ warfare secrets from the leader of Japan's infamous Unit 731. Yet, millions of people around the world were saved from death by starvation, disease and exposure by billions spent by the U.S. Even Russia, not exactly a cuddly teddy bear under Stalin, distributed food.

There HAS to be a difference between US and THEM. There at least has to be a perception of a difference. That's why the Nuremburg trials were so important. Suppose we had, as Churchill suggested, just lined up the suspects and shot them on the spot? No trial. No concerted effort to collect and preserve the evidence of the Nazi atrocities. No records of testimony from all those eye witnesses.

You all know that 25% of people polled in the U.S. have doubts that the Holocaust ever happened. Just imagine the field day the Holocaust deniers would have if there had been no public trial. How much higher would that chilling number of holocaust doubters be? How would we answer them? How much of the evidence would still exist now?

That being said, I don't believe we need to keep bludgeoning the Germans with WWII. We did that during the war, and at the Nuremburg trials. That's enough already. I think most Germans are probably more like Jan these days. That's why I had no problem when Germany was finally reunited. This was going to be a very different Germany from the one that existed during the first half of the 20th century.

I hope to see Downfall sometime soon.

And no, I didn't rape anybody's daughter. If anything, I think I may have been taken advantage of while I was very drunk. I think.

Chuck

Not the gnome, the other one

rich, et al:

Saw David Sedaris with Chris Chrutcher and Michael Heffernan for not 40 bucks, but 46 bucks. I don't know what the six dollars were for because my mom and I loitered near the box office waiting for people to sell their unused tickets.

My mom, an honest gal, actually tracked down the woman who'd sold us the first ticket for a flat 40 dollars, giving her the extra six after we found out the true price.

Got to hear someone complain about some seats that were double booked, which was heart warming, even though they found seats right up front just a few moments later anyway.

Sedaris was a blast, but being the Lit Fest crony that I am, I enjoyed the local authors, too. People got up during the intermission between Sedaris and the second two writers, and got in line to get Sedaris to sign their books instead of listening to the other authors. The crowd yammered loudly just outside the theater doors, and you could hear their voices echoing while the others were trying to read.

It bothered me, but I was happy to have the row to myself, especially since my starboard-side deodorant had given up the ghost.

Sedaris was a tough act to follow, I'm glad those two kept their wits about them. Sedaris was like an event, but the two that followed felt more like the heart of what Lit Fest is about to me.

Next in line, Bob Edwards and Salman Rushdie, among others.

-Aaron

Ghost Concert
Jon,

I find it disturbing they chose Glenn Gould.

1. He very publicly gave up the concert stage.

2. He was particular about his pianos, favoring a certain Steinway until it was damaged, then using Yamahas. Both were maintained to a particular degree and lack a lot of the resonance I hear in concert grands.

How the ghost piano will render all this I don't know. I also wonder what concert of the Goldbergs they're using: I know there was a live performance in Salzburg, but it's from 1959.

Gould was a technophile, however, so I think he'd be intrigued by the process, though scoffing of folks who'd attend such a concert.

Chris

Robert Morales-Christian Film Review
Robert,
I followed the web address you posted concerning the christian movie review of Sin City and came to the following conclusion:
1. god is love
2. Marv, Harttigan and Dwight are all motivated by love.
Therefore: Sin City is a christian movie!!!
I'm glad to see Mickey Rourke in a role that is worthy of his talent (for the first time in what-sixteen years?)and Frank Miller, man, has he ever done anything less than perfect? As a film fan I think this CGI shit is for the birds, but this movie had so much going for it across the board I can forgive the fact that, at points, it was like watching someone play a video game.

If war is war is war, why did we bother with Nuremburg tribunals or war crimes tribunals of any kind? That's war, that's what happens. Why are the vanquished held responsible for their actions but the victors can shrug and say "that's war"?

Don't we hold ourselves to a higher standard?

Enough with abstractions.

The Allied strategic bombing campaign accomplished zilch all, except solidify support for Hitler.

They did not hasten the end of the war.

Where does that leave us?

To Michael, Justin, Brian, etc.
Justin, Michael, Brian,

Send me your postal addresses at my Beeb or Hotmail address (which I will not publish here and please don't as I don't want to be badgered with penis extension kits and other such examples of canned meat products) and will send out the required post cards from Axis of Evil land.

Talk soon.

FAQ

Ghost Concert to Revive Past Music
Decloaking here for a bit, because I thought this news was weirdly interesting:

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1517&e=6&u=/afp/afplifestylemusic

The short version of this is, Zenph Studios, a software company in Raleigh, NC, has (apparently) figured out a way to transcribe polyphonic notes of old (and perhaps badly recorded) music, and then replicate the performances exactly, via MIDI. The test of this will be to perform "note-perfect" versions of piano pieces originally recorded by Alfred Cortot in 1928 and Glenn Gould in 1962.

Anyway, FYI...

-- Jon

I'm still waiting for my 2005 Culture of Death membership card, but let me put in my vote for how wonderfully funny SIN CITY is. It's a purely grand guignol hoot - in other words, a vibrant example of a traditional narrative extremism that goes back well before Jacobean drama. As much as I applaud Ezra's discovery of the exquisite OUT OF THE PAST (with dialogue by the uncredited Frank Fenton), I think he has a simplistic view of what noir is about: ever-shifting moral ground. SIN CITY is well more in the spirit of Sam Fuller's PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET and Fritz Lang's M than it is, say, the beautiful, upper-middleclass LAURA. It's about people at the bottom who try to do right by their limited terms, a staple of modern crime fiction. (I'd urge any of you interested in this sort of thing to pick up FILM NOIR: An Encyclopedic Reference to the American Style by Alain Silver and Elizabeth Ward [3rd ed., 1993; Overlook Press].)

Is SIN CITY occasionally repellent? Sure - but so is MONTY PYTHON & THE HOLY GRAIL - and, really, NO LESS SO. The movie might not be for everyone, certainly, but it's fascinating to see even a Christian film review website like

http://www.christiananswers.net/spotlight/movies/2005/sincity2005.html

trying mightily to keep its admiration and umbrage in righteous harmony.

Let's just understand a couple of things right off hand: World War 2 and the current Iraq war are not, never will be, never hope to be in any way shape or form, analogous endeavors. Lest we forget what the purpose of war is (of which this so-called "war on terror" is most definitely NOT a war), it is to DESTROY the other guy. To kill that motherfucker til there's nothing left or he gives up.

That is war.

When waging war, you go all out. And before some knucklehead comes up with whether I would advocate nuclear options, I'm talking about having someone left alive at the end. Not suicide.

So when going all out, you bomb their cities, you bomb their people, and, yes, you bomb their kids. That is war.

World war 2 was a war and the very fact of war itself is an atrocity so Dresden and London are part of that atrocity. There is very little right and wrong in war and because most of us don't understand this concept we have Iraq, we have Korea, we have Somalia, and any other bullshit political concepts of "war" that have very little do do with war itself.

If more people understood what WAR really is, we'd have no Vietnams and Iraqs.

If Chuck raped my daughter, I wouldn't rape Chuck's daughter. I'd kill Chuck. That's war. Raping his daughter is just revenge. (And, just for the record, we're not talking about the Chuck of this Webderland. Strictly coincidental.)

Adam-Troy Castro

What makes me queasy is using language like " returning the favor with interest" to refer to the
indiscriminate blowing up and mangling of little children and their families.This reminds me of the soldiers I,ve seen in the current war (not in person) saying "this one's for 9/11" as they drop the bombs on Iraq.If any innocents were killed well, it isn't any worse than what happened to us on 9/11.( Never mind Iraq was not responsible for 9/11, thats not the point of my argument eigther).

If the inhumanity or imorality of the enemy is used to justify our own inhumanity and imorality on a relativistic level then we become that much closer to the evil of what we are fighting.I know this is hardly an original idea but the cavalier mention of the horrible death of thousands of innocents just got my ire up and caused me to write in while I usualy just read.

Keith Cramer
I thought your response made perfect sense.I didn't hear you say that the U.S. was Nazi Germany, just that the absolute imorality of one side does not justify the absolute imorality of the other.

Todd Cassel
My head reels with the implications of this type of Sean Hannity ,"the U.S. did it so that makes it O.K." remark.I don't beleive that's how you realy feel (as far as excusing the U.S. for everything) but enough head reeling

Paul

*** Duane *** On some level I suppose that depends on what your time and $500.00 is worth to you. I would be very wary of such classes and certainly want to know about the credentials of the person teaching it. The character teaching a similar class in the film IDENTITY comes to mind. Lots of variables.

On the other hand, you have the example of Harlan hitiing LA. with pocket change and asking - oh crap, who was it, Robert Bloch or Charles Beaumont? - to meet him somewhere [a pool hall?] with a teleplay, so that he would have the right format to crib off for the work he hoped to scoop up. Of course times have changed, and chutzpah chained to talent is in shorter supply.

Joe R. Lansdale was telling a similar tale of "making it up on the fly" while his son, who was 5 at the time was beating on the keyboard with a PLAYSKOOL orange hammer. That first effort was just optioned again [third time] and Joe figures it was his single best days work to date.

I just throw these thoughts out there. The class may be a wonder. I just don't know.

***Harlan/Susan/Tim/Doug/Phil/John/Keith and whoever else cares***

Had the surgery yesterday. Full tear and re-attach. Which was what the MRI showed, so, no suprise there. Hard cast up to the knee. I'm already doing leg lifts out of sheer boredom. By the end of 12 weeks I'm gonna be like a cross between a Rockette and Jet Li with this thing. But I have lousy crutch technique which means I have rubbed away part of my right wrist in a mere 36 hours. From the crutch! Get your minds out of the gutter. Sheesh.

This morning at 8:12AM the hospital called me to answer a survey on quality of care. I kid you not. I took it in good humor and reminded them that I was unconscious for most of it. This took her hopelessly off script. I explained that as far as I knew they could have put me in clown make-up and posed me with farm animals. Got her to admit that this was possible, but she kept stressing "unlikely". This is what they get for asking me questions while I'm on drugs and nodding off to
GENERATION OF SWINE Volume 2. "Buy the ticket - take the ride. Ho-ho!"

This afternoon my daugter told me the high school "street" value of the rather large bottle of Percocet they have - in their infinite medical wisdom - given me. The things I learn from that kid.

I heart percocet.

- Barney

Warmthrob, PA.

Script Reading & Analysis
Hey everyone,

Assuming that I am writing every day with the express intention of writing novels for a living (branching out into other media as opportunities present themselves), and that I work daily on improving all elements of my storytelling (compelling characters, clarity of prose, etc.), would it be worthwhile to spend the money to attend a class that teaches script analysis?

I've been presented with an opportunity to read and analyze scripts part time to earn extra money, and I'm wondering if such an activity would help / hinder or have no effect on my own development as a storyteller. The class itself is being offered through UCLA Extension and is going to cost about $500.00

Thanks -- Duane

RESPONSE TO P.A. BERMAN
Well...according to certain prophecies from Nostradamus to the Revelations in the Bible, plus others in the past fifty years or so....the next Pope just might be the minion of the Anti-Christ. Oh by the way...the Pope after Benedict is suppossed to be the last one, before Jesus returns to put an end to this
wicked age...some say the end of the Earth, but I doubt that, unless the planet is destroyed...I believe it means, all who inhabit this globe who have done everything in their power to destroy it. Again....it will be an interesting five to ten years or more...future history will tell.

My Very Last Pope Response, I Promise
Ratzinger was not picked for his age. He was picked because he's been running the papacy for the last three years since John Paul II became ill.

As for those of you who think that he will only live a few years, just remember that mean old men have a habit of living very long lives.

And for those who think that he is an interim or tranistional pope so that the church can transition to a younger pope later, tell me why on earth they didn't make that transition now?

All Man (except for his sensitive innards)
War's over folks. (Well WWII anyway.)

That said, absolutely go see DOWNFALL if you can. Jan, the run I saw was subtitled. Maybe when it comes time for the DVD the Criterion collection will do it up right.

Happy to oblige, jlew.

You know the Germans get a lot of grief because of what happened but the generations subsequent to the Nazi era have done a pretty good job of facing the past. It's the Japanese who are trying to slip back into fantasy land. And while we're at it, just how well have we wholesome god-fearing Americans come to terms with our own history (other than by ignoring it)?

Justin: You're going to meet Giger? Be sure to report back and tell us about that, and about the exhibition. It sounds really cool.

Todd: I really care about the Pope. He's one of the most powerful men in the world, and there are parts of the world where his word is more weighty than anyone else's. Sadly, those are the same parts of the world where Catholic doctrine and sane policy often fail to jibe. Also, those of us who were raised Catholic have a hard time not caring about the Pope. He's a big deal.

Stan: Of course Ratzinger was picked for his age. I think I said that when he was elected, as did Ratzinger himself yesterday. I have to wonder then if he was picked almost as an honorarium, a tribute to a respected elder, not so much for what he will do for the Church or the world. It certainly indicates that they have a strong second choice lined up for the next election. Makes me curious about who that is...

PAB

Keith, your response to Adam-Troy makes absolutely no sense in regard to what he wrote. He wasn't speaking of vengeance, and the U.S. is not Nazi Germany in WWII (though I'm sure many will jump in to ridiculously dispute that).

My head whirls with the implications of this type of Noam Chomsky rationale.

-TODD

Huh?
So, AT-C,

It would be justifiable, in your view, for Iraq to send enough suicide bombers over here to kill about 100,000 of our citizens?

I fail to see how civilization can continue when all behavior is modeled and justified on/by the most base, degenerate, venal, vile, and evil (don't stop me, I enjoy repeating myself) of behavior.

It's okay to rape Chuck's daughter, because Chuck raped my daughter. Well, no. But if his name is Otto, and he's a Nazi, then yes.

My head whirls with the implications of this type of George Bush rationale.

-Keith

Sin City
Yeah, I know I am way behind on this one, but I just wanted to thank Ezra Lb. for his (her?) comments. I just saw SC this past weekend and was appalled. NO ONE I have spoken to has felt the way I do. I was beginning to feel awful alone and dumb for not "getting" it. Then, I logged on here (something I hadn't done in quite a while) and found a kindred spirit. Thanks, man.

Germany
My father was once on tour in Germany, and raised his hand when the tour guide pointed out the rubble of a once-great cathedral and said, "The Americans bombed this for no reason."

Dad said, "Oh, we had a reason."

What was it?

Answer: "You were trying to take over the world."

Sorry, but questions of measured responses, of the morality of war, of the right and wrong things to bomb all fail when discussing the war with the Nazis. They had no problem reducing civilian sections of London to rubble. I don't see how historians can complain if allied bombs returned the favor with interest.

Yeah, it makes me queasy that we were ultimately better at it. But it makes me even more queasy that Hitler, given his preferences in the bunker, would have continued fighting until the last German was dead.

Linkages between the Pope and Pres. Bush
Sidney Blumenthal's opinion piece in today's issue of Salon talks about how Cardinal Ratzinger helped turn the election in Bush's favor by his ruling that attempted to prevent Kerry from receiving Communion because of his pro-choice views.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/blumenthal/2005/04/21/tk/index1.html

Someone asked if there was any real relevance to this new Pope to non-Catholics. I think that one example shows that he can have a significant impact on American culture.

The separation of Church and State in America lessens every day and religious fervor, from all sides, seems to be increasing. There are growing instances where pharmacists are refusing to fill prescriptions, especially for birth control, because they feel it is against their religious convictions. Will this new Pope help to quell some of this zealotry or inflame it? Based on his comments about Kerry, I am afraid I know which path he will choose.

I wonder if the day is approaching where a pharmacist or doctor will refuse me treatment or to fill a prescription because I have not accepted Jesus as my personal savior?

Is the American release of DOWNFALL subtitled?
For those of you who haven't seen it, it shows the "downall" of Germany in 1945 from the perspective of Hitler's entourage in berlin. The movie was a great success here and there were lots of showings for school classes. We had the same discussions you seem to have about how Hitler was being portrayed. I think it's a fabulous, very entertaining film about events we're all very curious about, and it's based on a first-hand report of Hitler's secretary and, I suppose, some of Goebbel's diary entries and whatever else we have. It shows the German side of some WWII events, which is usually slighted or simplified in British and American films about the era. (Even pretty recently SAVING PRIVATE RYAN reinforced the image of the evil German undeserving of mercy - if any of you remember the soldier whose life Tom Hanks spared and who later came back to kill an American the audience had made an emotional investment in. And that was the only German in the movie. DOWNFALL is like a response to that.) Still, I think there were some slight errors in the acting, and it has some problems typical for German films.
There is hardly a better film to have a discussion about afterwards. The feeling in Europe is that there are still a lot of things to think about, come to grips with and resolve about the war, because a lot of things were just immedeately put aside at the time. Right now, they're preparing a film about the bombing of Dresden. Most historians these days agree that the kind of indiscriminate destruction of all German cities & population was not warranted and served to real purpose at all, but a lot of time had to pass before someone could say that openly or do a movie about it. It was a horrible period for everyone.

HARLAN:

I'm in Zurich at the moment, and tonight I'm attending a gallery exhibition opening by HR GIGER. I'm not sure what your relationship to him is, but I came to know of his extraordinary body of work because YOU wrote the introduction to one of his books (BIOMECHANICS, if memory serves). Giger will be there and I may (hope hope) get a chance to meet him, so let me know if you'd like me to pass on regards or something.

This should be pretty cool.


J

About the new Pope
Hey guys and gals...the reason Ratzi was picked for the top Catholic post was because of his age....for cryin out loud! The
man just celebrated his 78th birthday...he is but six years younger than JPII...I think the Cardinal Collective wanted someone who could act as interim pope...die off in a few years...and then maybe they could elect another younger guy to the position....but hey....all those cardinals look as old or older than Benedict anyway...so just how much change will the Catholic Church see...Hmmmm?

Call me Urban, II

I wanted to break my 24 hour conclave to note that I think the papyrus link is great, and I hope more translations come out (they're all in a book right now, aren't they? I haven't seen many online).

Also, regarding Benedict, it may amuse his detractors and general anarchists to see Benedict's new wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Pope_Benedict_XVI&direction=prev&oldid=12526972

His photo has changed since I last saw him ;)

-Aaron

>We're talking about Nazi Germany, after all, and even if he was just a kid, that doesn't necessarily excuse anything he may have done in the war. (Kids are capable of some pretty heinous stuff, don't forget.)

Leaders everywhere have done all kinds of things in all kinds of wars, and if you're an atheist you cannot believe Benedict to be any more than a human being. Even an organization like the catholic church has to led and represented by a human being.Furthermore, as I indicated, if you're dealing with Germans from 70 years of age and upwards, you're dealing with people who have been involved in the war. At some point you have to draw the line. I could go into the trials that took place after the war and how the victors had to stop putting every German into prison, but you get the point. You cannot apply peacetime rules to a war. (Unfortunate as that may be.)

We'll see what the guy will do. Like all of you, I don't expect too much. Being a Pope is a job, a role. He deviates from that role, no one will take him serious as the Pope and he will die a mysterious death. I see people here say that Benedict's the worst possible Pope to be elected, but it's not like he was elected by mistake and now we have to live with it. The truth of the matter is that he was not picked to revolutionize the catholic church. He was picked because he's conservative. His thinking is in line with what the catholic church wants. Like his predecessor, he will be blamed for a lot of things, but it's the organization itself that's conservative and it elects conservative leaders. It is therefore needless to say he's the worst person to be elected, as if some mistake was made and they're all fools.

Downfall
To Aaron and other webderlanders:
I just saw "Downfall" last Friday and recommend that EVERYONE see it. It was one of the best films I've ever seen and Bruno Ganz's performance as Hitler and Corinna Harfouch's performance as Magda Goebbels were amazing. In fact, if you have teenagers, take them to the movie.
Another magnificent film everyone should see is "Gloomy Sunday", a Hungarian-German WWII film. A beautifully done movie(this one's for adults) about human relationships.

Colleen

Duane, Debbie and I went to DOWNFALL at our neighborhood theater this past weekend (it's great living here in the Valley of the Sun, where these movies that used to require our searching high and low...or traveling into NYC....can actually be found in perfectly modern theaters within a reasonable drive).

The movie was an excellent representation of what may have been Hitler's bunker days, and Bruno Ganz (one of the Wings of Desire angels) did a superb job. There was a tiny bit of hubbub when it was released last year over the fact that Hitler's portrayal may have been too human and bla bla bla bla bla. As usual, with any movie that features Hitler, there is always a call for ensuring that every single second of his screentime show him as a complete monster.

He was a monster, and this movie shows that in his words and actions, but just because it shows him being nice to a secretary or his doggie does not mean we have to cut those scenes out. Sheesh, the whining over movies starts to get out of hand at times.

Mind you, this is coming from a 44 year old Jew whose father was a Rabbi. I do not take the history of this time lightly.....but I can also view a movie with this excellent portrayal and not run into the streets in horror demanding it be removed from theaters or scenes cut. Yeesh....now if you really want to remove a movie from theaters, let's go after something worthwhile like Miss Congeniality 2 or something like that!

PS, with everyone chiming in on the Pope here over the last few days, I must wonder: who here really cares about the Pope? Are many of these comments just a mental exercise? I'm sure there are a few of you...but to most of the regulars here; does he really matter at all to you? Not a challenge; just wondering....

-TODD; POOPED ON THE POPE

Beware the man who tells you how to live with only the logic of "God told me so" to explain why.

New Popes versus New Politics
I find myself less disturbed by the doctrinaire new pope than I am of the theological idealogs running our country. Kind of the famous comment Harlan once made about the affect of a blister on his toe versus the death of thousands in an Asian monsoon (forgive the butchering).

What is more chilling (to me) is the fundamentalist Christian concept that their religion entitles them (and other followers) some form of special privilege.

I apologize if this duplicates a previous posting, but a Bill Moyers' speech regarding the religious right and the environment deserves additional and ongoing attention, I think:

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/1206-10.htm



He nails the debate with characteristic aplomb...

Joseph Ratzinger (anagram: Got herpes, jr. nazi?)

Here's the best article I've found on the guy's WWII past: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-1572667_1,00.html

Read it? Good. I've seen some people here pooh-pooh his involvement in the Nazi war machine, like it was the youthful equivalent of working in your uncle's bottle capping factory, or even--god help us--being a boy scout. Now, I'm not saying that everyone in the Hitler Youth and the German Army was a slavering anti-Semite bent on world conquest (though many were, obviously); however, when someone from that generation is elevated to spiritual leader of one of the largest religions on the planet, it's fair and even proper to wonder what exactly the hell he did back then, and how that might affect his policies today. We're talking about Nazi Germany, after all, and even if he was just a kid, that doesn't necessarily excuse anything he may have done in the war. (Kids are capable of some pretty heinous stuff, don't forget.)

So, how does he measure up? Well, the stint in the Hitler Youth was compulsory and brief, so we can disregard that. His time in the military is a little more problematic, however. Ratzinger claimed that he never fired a shot when he was in an anti-aircraft unit because of an infected finger. Putting aside the lack of evidence of this beyond his own word, this "infected finger" didn't prevent him from setting tank traps in Hungary right in the shadow of the death camps. True, he deserted in April 1944, but with Germany entering its downward spiral, that wasn't such an unusual thing to do, and hardly a sign of opposition to Hitler. Still, I'll agree that he was a less-than-sterling warrior for the Third Reich; there is this damning section of the Times article to consider, though: "He has since said that although he was opposed to the Nazi regime, any open resistance would have been futile-comments echoed this weekend by his elder brother Georg, a retired priest ordained along with the cardinal in 1951. 'Resistance was truly impossible,' Georg Ratzinger said . . ." Now this is bullshit, as, according to the article, people were resisting the Nazis IN THE SAME TOWN. Considering that Ratzinger's father was a police officer who tried to contain Hitler's Brown Shirts, it's obvious that the fruit, in one respect, fell pretty far from the tree.

If I sound a little nit-picky here, well, I COULD point out the irony of a Church that insists on absolute fidelity to a strict and unforgiving doctrine, but is more lax when it comes to the resumes of its papal candidates. But I won't. *wink* I will agree that, in the end, it's kind of beside the point. Even if Ratzinger had gone all Sgt. Fury and mowed down twenty divisions of the German Army, it wouldn't change the fact that the guy is a troglodyte in terms of policy, and is the worst pope the cardinals could've chosen. (If you want a sense of how much anguish this guy's election has caused, go to Andrew Sullivan's weblog: http://www.andrewsullivan.com/ Yes, the guy is frequently a tool, but he is eloquent and moving when it comes to matters of his faith.)

Of course, as an agnostic Jew who thinks all public mentions of god should be replaced with the phrase, "My imaginary friend," I can't claim to be too worked up over this. I'm going back to considering the Catholic church irrelevant to my life, and I'd even suggest that my Catholic friends here do the same. Less stress that way.

P.A.B. and the Rest: Just so you know, leaving the Hitler Youth to join the Roman Catholic clergy in Austria or Germany was in no way like being a conscientious objector in America. It was more like an upgrade.

The German Catholic church was more conservative than Hitler on many questions. When the German government asked one German Cardinal whether those people with congenital birth defects should be sterilized or exterminated, the cardinal objected to steilization because it would allow people to have sex without procreation. On the advice of the Cardinal, the Nazis chose extermination instead (Source: Ute Ranke Heinemann's "Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven"). And remember, the Austrians were even more chillingly conservative than the Germans (Forget that Sound of Music crap).

So, maybe his progression from Hitler Youth to Austrian Priest should be looked on more as a graduation. The real point should be whether he ever repudiated any of the ideas he swore oaths to as a Hitler Jungen. But judging from his recent hate literature against gays, I would gather that he still sees those pink stars bright as day.

Steve Dooner,
Atheist, Former Roman Catholic, Admirer of Dorothy Day, Cardinal Romero, the Berrigan Brothers and St. Francis of Assissi

There are days I wished I believed in God. Just to make the pagentry of the catholic church worthwhile.

I was raised roman catholic and am still stunned by the spectacle, the lavish production built around every event, right down to weekly mass.

But somewhere along the way, this sheep strayed from the flock. And now I take delight in watching the faces of the faithful when I tell them "I'm going straight to the fifth ring of hell."

See you on the bus- SINNNERS! Bwah-HA-HA!

Question
Am I the only one who has Harlan on my iPod?

Thanks,
Tony

I agree with PAB (how often does that happen). The Nazi stuff is just bullshit.

The real question is whether or not the Church is going to make an attempt to come to terms with the modern world. This is the "crisis" through which all western organized religion is currently passing whether RC, Protestant or Islamic.

So far the answer from all these traditions is a resounding "NO!"

The new Pope is quoted in today's WashPost as saying

"The Church needs to withstand the tides of trends and the latest novelties..."

Unfortunately these "trends" and "novelties" include such things as equal rights for women, any kind of rights for gays, priests being held responsible for crimes they commit, etc.

Not being Catholic frees me from having to have an opinion on a lot of the internal debates but I must say that teaching African women who already have more children than they can feed that it's a sin to use birth control and that they should have more babies is criminally irresponsible. Unless you think the essence of the gospel message is "More Suffering!"

Ellison in the NYSUN
Not worth the effort. The article, written by Otto Penzler, proprietor of the Mysterious Book Shop (a friend of the Ellison's, if memory serves), contains a few minor errors of fact, some praise and reproachment of Harlan and his work, and is way too short and salubrious for a work titled the way it is. Just as an example, Otto says Harlan is 71. Granted, that is a minor factual error. Harlan was going around at the WHC claiming to be 71, so I guess it doesn't matter that much. If you split hairs, you could say Harlan's well into his 71st year (because we're all working on the next year).

This bit is not like the "Dangerous Visions" article of a few weeks ago. It can be missed.

-Keith

Alex: First of all, remember that Ratzinger was 14-18 during the time period we're talking about. How often did YOU do "the right thing," whatever that was, at that age? When the predominant culture demanded you do otherwise? At least he got himself out of the Hitler youth ASAP due to his seminary studies. It was a tough time to be a thinking German, for sure, especially a very young one.

You know I'd be the first to shout "anti-Semite" or "Nazi sympathizer" if I thought it was warranted, but in this case, I think he was just a teenager who was buffeted by the winds of insanity in Germany at the time. Could he have done more to object? Sure, just as JPII did, but JPII was also an adult at the time, with a wider world view and more options. Keep that in mind when you judge.

That said, I don't like Ratzinger one bit, but for other, more salient reasons. I think an arch-conservative was exactly the wrong choice and hope they only picked him to stabilize things internally for a few years until they can elect someone really exciting. I'd like to see a Latin American or African pope with a meaningful perspective on the third world. That'd herald some changes, I'd think.

PAB

MEDICAL ALERT
Harlan, you will want to check your friend Tom Snyder's website, Colortini.com. He reports that he has been diagnosed with leukemia.

I have to take some issue with Alex Berman's demand that Ratzinger should have "done the right thing," especially when he also says that the people who _did_ went to Dachau. Right off the bat, he makes it kind of understandable _why_ many people didn't do the right thing.

Generally speaking, most people aren't terrific heroes. And many of the evils the Third Reich performed were barely suspected until the Final Solution got under way. Some saw what was happening right off, and fought against it. Others realized it later on, and did what they could-- like Oskar Schindler. Some merely endured, like Victor Klemperer. (And we might want to ask ourselves if _fleeing the country_ amounted to doing the right thing. I'm not sure I'd have wanted Albert Einstein to stay in Austria to devote his fame and genius on the front lines.)

But this is a discussion of general moral principles here. I can think of lots of other reasons to regard this new Pope with a _lot_ of suspicion and doubt.

(BTW, the doctrine of papal infallibility applies solely to when the Pontiff speaks on moral principles and church doctrine. It does not mean that whatever he says or does, or did, is not to be doubted by Catholics. It's silly, of course, but let's get the facts right about the silliness.)

But on brighter notes... _Salon_ has a nice article about Shel Silverstein. And it was a genuine thrill to hear that I'd indirectly given Robert Silverberg some joy, so thanks for the word, Harlan.

A quick papal response for Alex Jay Berman
I'm only responding to your command to "DO THE RIGHT FUCKING THING" because the anger behind it hit me hard and because I don't know if you've really thought that command through. I know nothing of his circumstances, and very little of the Hitler Youth, so forgive me if I'm wrong, or make offense. But ...

I can't believe that you know what the right thing really was. Perhaps becoming a conscientious objector was the only right thing, perhaps not. Imagine the Hitler Youth organization filled with youth who WANTED to be there. How much different, stronger, or worse would it have been?

Most importantly, Catholics do not hold the Pope to be without fault. John Paul II went to reconciliation to confess his sins daily. The pope is as human as each and every one of us. Condemning Pope Benedict based on an inaction during his youth in conjunction with the concept of Papal Infallicy is inaccurate.

Ellison article for NY SUN
Here's the teaser pargraph (below). Looks interesting, but since you have to subscribe ($16.95) for the paper before reading it, the best thing might be to write to the paper and buy a single issue -- especially if you're not gonna check out the NY Sun everyday:

Men Are From Mars (Especially Harlan Ellison)
The Crime Scene
BY OTTO PENZLER
Mention the name Harlan Ellison, one of the most gifted short-story writers of the 20th century, and most people will think of a writer of fantasy, or science fiction, or absurdist humor. That's if they remember him at all, since he hasn't written...

Men Are From Mars (Especially Harlan Ellison)
Just before leaving for work I came across an article in The New York Sun. However, it requires filling out a form to subscribe, and I don't have the time to go through the hoops.

If you want to check it out:
Men Are From Mars (Especially Harlan Ellison)http://www.nysun.com/article/12554

Popes and protocols
Harlan and Brian--Thank you both, for saving me the need to answer the Protocols question. I would only add that the question itself brings up Eisner's main theme in "The Plot"--the way the Protocols keep coming back despite being knocked down time and time again. The perseverence of evil is a frightening thing to behold.

Alex Berman--the doctrine of Papal Infallibility doesn't apply at all times. It has to be invoked by the Pope at the time he makes a pronouncement. Certainly it doesn't apply to his youth. If memory serves, there have only been two occasions on which Popes have made the claim to be speaking infallibly. It's a dangerous doctrine to invoke, because it locks all your successors into a particular position, else they must throw out not only the position, but the infallibility doctrine.

Which is not to say I'm very pleased with this choice. Quite right, the Pope, like it or not, affects us all. This very anti-progressive selection could have dire ramifications for the world...and certainly for the American church.

But we are Jews, and all we can do about it is kvetch, no? Meanwhile, we can enjoy the entertainment. The Gullibility Brigade is already going into paroxysms of joy over the supposed prediction of this Pope by Malachy, especially because one Clever Hans of a fellow not only predicted Ratzinger's elevation, but which name he'd don. According to this crowd, the next Pope will be the last one, and Irma Geddon will follow.

I tell ya, it beats what's on television.

Aaron,
Go see Sedaris. I've never seen the man in person, but I've read his books and heard his audio tapes and I'd pay $40 to go see him and I'm a skinflint. Chomsky may score you points with the intellectuals and Frank Church (not one and the same, hee hee), but come on...how many laughs is Chomsky realling gonna give you?

As far as the Nazi Pope, couldn't give a shit one way or the other 'cause the Church is dying, my friends, and the Pope is irrelevant to those of us in the real world.

As far as whether he did the right thing or not back during WW2, I don't know. But, it's far easier for us to judge without having been there. We'd all like to think we would've done the right thing, but a lot of people did a lot of bad things during those days and not all of those people were evil. Good for those that stood against that evil and they are heroes, but I think to tell those that weren't heroes what they "should've" done is far easier to say than to actually do.

Call me Urban
"Downfall" will be playing in the newly adopted land of C. J. Cherryh, after our local lit festival is over. The film looks interesting, I hope to catch it.

I have a choice between attending a lecture by David Sedaris for 40 dollars, or one by Noam Chomsky for free. They're happening at the same time. I'm having trouble deciding. I'm already an angry enough person as it is, so I'm leaning toward the former. Suggestions are welcome.

Your vignette was interesting, Amy :)

-Aaron

Popes and Japes
PAULA: I'm going to have to disagree most vociferously, though tangentially. Though I don't think of Ratzinger as a Nazi sympathizer, he should have stood up before he did. It does him credit that he defected in '44. But his father was a virulently anti-Nazi policeman whose attempts to stop brownshirts' violence caused the family to have to pick up and move several times. There were people from his hometown who became conscientious objectors and were sent to Dachau. You stand up. You exercise your conscience. You DO THE RIGHT FUCKING THING.

The Pope, the Holy Father of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, is supposed to be without error; infallible. That inaction--however young he may have been--is a pretty damned big fault.

To look at it another way: Karol Wojtyla worked in an underground anti-Nazi theater and helped a goodly number of Jews escape the Nazis. His successor guarded workers drawn from the concentration camps.

Add in the Inquisition, his statements that Jews can only be saved through coming to Christ (in marked contrast to John Paul II's "those who live in accordance with the Beatitudes will enter God's Kingdom.", and his hardline insistence on taking the Church back to a decidedly pre-Vatican II outlook, and I'm unhappy with the choice.

"You're unhappy with the choice? Moron; you're Jewish! What say do YOU have?"

Well ... More and more, the Papacy has become a position of earthly influence as much as it is of Heavenly guidance. Some might even argue that a Pope is the most powerful leader on earth: His edicts and influence are not constrained by borders, he is not held to any limit of his term save the grave, and he is held to be without fault. Scary when you think about it.

BRIAN: You know, I've read most of the Dortmunder books, but never have seen THE HOT ROCK. Odd ...
And congratulations on starting the career!

Thank you even more for posting about the Oxyrynchus Papyri. That was one of the coolest things I've heard in ages.

blah blah blah
All--
Well, I've been reading Harlan since forever (1965?). More than any other speculative fiction writer, he changed my life. All those damn stories, those great essays, and those two seminal anthologies. His work, his epigraphs, his introductions and afterwords, well, they made me think!
THE most important writer of the last half of the last century, to my mind.
What's this pope business? I like the "Nazi pope" song--but, come on, we have a fascist president! Not to mention an egomaniac.
I've lived my whole life the Bible Belt, which has taught me one thing: the ludicrous malarkey people believe! Not a damn scientist among them, I sometimes think.
The meaning of life? Simple: LIFE. Why are we here? Who cares? Isn't it enough to just be alive, to breathe, to think, to love, to grow? Each breath, and the pauses between them, these are miracle enough for me.
Of course, I am full of it myself, which makes me laugh. Just an old Taoist semi-cultured book-loving redneck ex-hippie.
I am the grokLF
Peace

Jan, you nailed it right on the head. Thank you. It's all too easy to paint the guy with a broad brush simply because of his place of birth and the circumstances he was born into.

**

I haven't read mention of this particular movie on the board, and if I missed it, my apologies. But I saw DOWNFALL last Saturday. It's the movie that chronicles Hitler's last days in his bunker. The character portrayals are some of the most compelling I'd ever seen. It's on an extended run here in LA, and I am definitely going to see it again.

Of Comics, Lovecraft, Hot Rocks and Popes...
Following up on Tom Galloway's comments on the Julie Schwartz/MIT Lecture: I owe my majority of my intellectual curiosity and moral upbringing to Julie...Justice League of America issues #'s 46 and 47 changed my life completely. The enduring memory of the sense of wonder and storytelling (and thank you, too, Gardner F. Fox) galvanized me nearly 30 years ago

Jeff R: Thanks for the link to the Stephen King essay on Lovecraft. He scared the crap out of me as a youngster but I think I'm older, wiser and ready to tackle him again.

Brian Siano: THE HOT ROCK was one of my favorite movies of the 70's; as a result, I got turned on to the works of Donald Westlake and William Goldman (who adapted the novel).

Benedict XVI: As a lasped catholic, I can only marvel at the stupidity of an institution that is intent on crushing ANY constructive criticsm and places it's pursuit of preserving a conservative and hateful dogma over the needs of it's followers. I see only more trouble ahead for the Church and they've mostly brought it on themselves.

Webderland Eggs Benedict?
Ratzinger "joined" the Hitler Youth when it became compulsory in 1941. He had no choice, and was quickly given a deferment because he was studying for the priesthood. It's true that he went through basic training, but that was in 1945, and he didn't even finish before the war ended. Thus, I think charges of being a Nazi sympathizer are unfounded.

However, Ratzinger, or should I say Benedict, is an arch-conservative. He is head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which was once known as the Holy Inquisition. True to their legacy, these guys have been accused of being heavy-handed and intolerant, not allowing the offenders to defend themselves against charges, etc. Ratzinger has been called "God's Rottweiler." Sounds encouraging, eh?

But on the up side, he's 78 and was apparently chosen as a transitional pope, not expected to stick around for decades like JPII. I was hoping for a more liberal, open-minded pontiff who would have somewhat enlightened views at least on condom use in AIDS-ravaged nations, but maybe the next one, eh?

PAB, raised Catholic but feeling much better now

To the tune of "Baby Face":

Nazi Pope, we went and got ourselves a Nazi Pope
Just when you thought there might have been some hope
Nazi Pope, I really can’t believe it, the Vatican has stuck us with a
Nazi Pope, I think I better go and smoke some primo dope
Because I need a break, from this huge mistake, from this cranky Nazi Pope

The Hitler Youth is part of German history, guys, it was more then hard for anyone to evade, and if you hold it against Benedict or anyone else to have been in any way connected to the Nazis during their reign, you clearly have no idea what went on over here and have no business at all judging anyone who went through it. It was a reign of terror. You were a boy, you were part of the Hitler Youth, period. It was a time when you couldn't just do what you wanted, and there certainly weren't any political alternatives for the ordinary family. The HY was a fairly harmless organization for the time, the kids were below 18, they sang, walked around etc, much like boyscouts. It wasn't the kids who were "evil", as some around here seem to think, it was the people who were responisble for them (like Hitler). In all likelyhood this experience has little or nothing to do with who Benedict (or any other old person over here) is now - 60 years have passed.

I just got fingerprinted today, as part of my eventual new career as a mortgage broker. Strangely enough, to relax, I put on the DVD of _The Hot Rock_, and right off the bat Robert Redford's getting fingerprinted. Strange. (BTW, Westlake has a new Dortmunder out: _Watch Your Back_. Joy is afoot.)

Okay, so there's a new Pope. Pope Benedict. Nice name, and I like how it's Pope Benedict the Sixteenth, thus indicating the age of the Catholic Church. But no, I'm not happy. Not because I'm a Catholic: I'm an atheist, raised Catholic, and I care for the Church only for its opulent real estate. I'm not happy because of what the choice of Pope involved.

It's not just because William Donohue endorses the guy-- Donohue's a demented ratbag, and he's a reliably reverse barometer of moral rightness. It's not just because he was in the Hitler Youth as a child-- it's possible that the experience could make one even more acutely aware of how evil menifests itself in the world.

It's the fact that Ratzinger is all of the above, _and_ he's regarded as a conservative, doctrinaire, anti-modernist hardliner. The Church has appointed the equivalent of Antonin Scalia to the Holy Office-- at a time when the Church _must_ adjust to women's issues, to globalized capitalism, to efforts towards democracy, and the new technologies of genetics and computers. And this is soon after the relevations that many Cardinals aided and abetted pedophiles among the clergy. This isn't a guy likely to regard the last two centuries as anything but a sad mistake, and a deficit to the all-important power of the Catholic Church.

In summary: here's hoping that millions of Catholics around the world decide that the Church isn't worth preserving, save as a real-state caretaker.

Ratz!

> I found it interesting how all the reporters on tv and radio kept repeating the phrase "the problem of secularization."

They may not realize it, but they were referring to the fact that it's not happening fast and far enough.

The New Pope
As a Jew, I have to say that I am disappointed in the appointment of Ratzinger as the Pope. While I appreciate that he may have been conscripted into the German army against his will, and that there was tremendous societal pressure on German youths to join the Youth Nazi movement, the fact remains that he was part of one of the most genocidal regimes history has ever seen.

How someone who participated in such a government, even if he did not believe in their principles, could be seen as the Vicar of Christ on Earth is a question that confuses me. Combine that with the fact that he was seen as the main conservative element in John Paul's cabinet and I foresee that the minimal progress that was made under John Paul may soon be reversed.

One wonders what Benedict XVI will say about the lawsuit brought again in front of the world court that the Papal Bank was the repository of many Nazi funds plundered from Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, etc. The lawsuit claims that the $1.2 billion in reparations given a few years ago was insufficient based on recently acquired evidence.

The Benedict popes were known as uniters, and I hope this Pope continues that tradition, rather than that of our recently elected President who promised to be a uniter but has, instead proven to be the most divisive, and possibly worst, President in history.

Fanning The Air

I wanna hear Harlan Ellison join Al Franken and/or the kinetic Randi Rhodes on 1150 AM Air America Radio, who have been doing a great job neutralizing bullshit with concise facts and data!

What charisma it would add to the station.

These people have been vibrantly vocalizing the very theses and facts about the paralogia of Right Wing extremism Harlan himself addressed in the 80's.

I mention this because I am startled by how little has changed SINCE the 80's!

Well, it had to be said. Right! So the deal's done!

The New Pope

His consciption into the Nazi Youth movement may have been against his will, and he may have been drafted instead of recruited into the army in 1943. But he didn't desert until 1945, and while, depending on his actions during that time he might be forgiven, or at least understood, for being in the Nazi army for two years, I don't really think anyone that was in the Nazi army for five minutes ought to be handed a position as important or supposedly venerable as the Papacy.

Was Ratzinger's involvement with the Nazi War Machine against his will as well?

While listening/watching the news on the new Pope, I found it interesting how all the reporters on tv and radio kept repeating the phrase "the problem of secularization." This is a page right out of Fox News. "The problem of secularization." Repeated as such it becomes known to the conventional population as a widespread social problem and not an issue for a Pontiff and a Church who want to drag civilization back to the good old days of Medeavilism.

Mark W.

Pope Benedict XVI
...and his first action as Pope was to withdraw any implied apologies for not speaking out against the Holocaust. Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was heard to make this cryptic remark: "The birds are in the air."

In related news, the masses surrounding the Vatican suddenly dispersed following Sharon's statement. The Pope spoke out again, and hypothesized that the faithful Catholics were off preparing him a surprise party. He was last seen walking through the Cortile Ottagano, a hopeful smile on his lips.

For my Jewish friends
Seemed pretty funny to me on Pick a Pope day, but I'm not real sensitive on these matters.

Ben Grimm - That Clobberin' Jew.

http://www.livejournal.com/community/scans_daily/499954.html

Boy these folks have some serious spare time.

- Barney

hitler youth comment
Not defending the man or the faith. However, I was suprised by the comment so did a quick check to see what I could find. According to this article, referencing the Pope Benedict XVI's own memoirs, his membership was against his will.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/19/ratzinger.profile.ap/index.html

Pope Benedict XVI

Wonderful. A former member of the Hitler Youth, with the nickname of "The Enforcer," is now God's representative on earth. I'll just live in the attic for the duration, thank you very much. Tap twice on the ceiling when they elect someone to the left of Randall Flagg--okay?

(Hey, do you think he'll continue the good work of his predecessor, and give Bernard Law another promotion?)

Da Pope
At 78, likely chosen as the candidate likely to preserve the status quo until the rigamarole begins again in a very few years.

Say what you will about JP II -- and his legacy is mixed at best -- he was picked for longevity, and made ample use of his time.

That is... Pope Benedict XVI.

Catholics have a new Pope - Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.

Congratulations and good luck, guys.

Thanks for the link Jeff R from San Diego. The Stephen King piece is excerpted from his introduction to "H.P. Lovecraft Against the World, Against Life" by Michel Houellebecq, shortly to be published in English. I've read translated excerpts from Houellebecq's work and it does sound interesting. Look forward to it.

Mr. King must have nodded when he wrote the paragraph about authors who were influenced by HPL though. Surely he is aware that William Hope Hodgson had completed the work for which he is famous (well relatively famous) before HPL was much out of his teens and was dead from an artillery shell in WWI when HPL was only 27 years old. I know of no evidence that WHH even knew HPL ever existed. Who cares, right? Well I do. For two reasons. One, I’m a monstrous pedant. And two, I’m a monstrous William Hope Hodgson fan.

Thanks to http://www.nightshadebooks.com/ for making sure nice editions exist for members of our WHH cult, fine as we are though few. If you’re not a completeist fanatic you should at least find a copy of “House on the Borderland” (1908) which contains one of the most peculiar houses in all of literature. WHH was the master of spooky atmosphere and he also subscribed to the same philosophy as Mary Poppins. He never explained anything. But if you just accompany him on his trip he’ll take you to places you won’t ever forget. HPL fans will find “House on the Borderland” interesting because it anticipates many if not most of your master's favorite effects. No tentacled vaginas though sorry.

USA
Infoman-

Thanks for the scoop on some great reads- as a librarian and book reviewer I love getting book recommendations. Did you get an ARC of "Until I Find You"? John Irving is a big favorite of mine and I am quite looking forward to the new book. You say it is in his top 7- what would the other 6 be in your opinion? I've never been disappointed by an Irving novel, with the exception of "A Son of the Circus"- despite 4 aborted attempts, I've never managed to slog through that one.
Sherrie

Mister Ellison: I thank you.

Oh, and I apologize for posting twice yesterday.

dumb story du jour:

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050413/ap_on_re_us/killer_in_closet

JOHN WILLIAMS:

It's the Simon quotation you're looking for.

Yr. pal, Harlan

GREAT READS
ALL: In no particular order, here some great reads I've run across in the past few months. If you're interested: ROAD WORK by Mark Bowden; THE ICE QUEEN by Alice Hoffman; SYMPATHY BETWEEN HUMANS by Jodi Compton; HARD TRUTH by Nevada Barr; 1776 by David McCullough; ONE SHOT by Lee Child; VELOCITY by Dean Koontz; OLYMPOS by Dan Simmons; and UNTIL I FIND YOU by John Irving (which is one of his seven best novels, and will be out in July).

Dougie and Tony, thank you. Oddly enough, part of my confusion is whether the quote I'm looking for is by Simon or Hemingway! I'm leaning towards Simon, as Dougie's quote sounds closer to what I'm looking for.

Stephen King mentions Harlan in an interesting piece for the LA Times Book Review about the influence of H.P. Lovecraft:

http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/books/la-bk-king17apr17,1,2699938.story?coll=la-headlines-bookreview

Quote
John,

Believe the quote may be one from Hemingway that went something like this:

"There is no use writing anything that has been written before unless you can beat it. What a writer in our time has to do is write what hasn't been written before or beat dead men at what they have done."

But I don't have the particular source of that quote handy. If that's the one, and you have access to a copy of Ernest Hemingway on Writing at your local library, they may be able to get you the original source if the quote was included there.

--tr

Quote requested by John E. Williams
what a coincidence - just last night I was rereading WATCHING, and I came across a quote of John Simon's on page xxv of the Introduction.

" There is no point in saying less than your predecessors have said."

Some of his other quotes are rather amusing - look up thinkexist.com :http://en.thinkexist.com/quotes/sir_john_simon/

and brainyquote:

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/john_simon.html

Yours,
'quick-off-the-mark-like'
Dougie McIntosh.

Chicago Celebrates Ray Bradbury Day

Chicago Mayor Richard M. Daley has proclaimed today, April 18, Ray Bradbury Day. The festivities begin at 6:00 this evening at the Harold Washington library. The highlight will be a conversation with Mr. Bradbury via telephone, since his poor health wouldn’t allow him to travel and be in-person.

For more info: http://www.greaterstatestreet.com/Events/Event_Detail.asp?Event_ID=119

Quote Needed
I apologize for jumping in here without proper introduction or credential, but I'm looking for a favorite quote of Mr. Ellisons, attribution required. It's the famous "there is little use in saying something already better said by someone else" quote, and you can see by my mangled misrememberance that I'm in sore need of having my memory refreshed. I'd check my personal library for this, but I'm at work and need the quote ASAP.

I thank you in advance for your patience and good will in this matter, and promise to find a way to repay your kindness somehow. Perhaps I can bus the Pavilion's tables...

Thanks for the Oxyrhynchus Papyri links (say that real fast three times in a row). Cool! Imagine a complete Sappho! I suppose the real finds will be stuff we didn't even expect existed. (Maybe the scroll that contains the great spell whereby Isis brought Osiris back from the dead!) It makes you wonder what else is buried out there in some cave, or desert, or under another pile of rubbish.

My own wish before I'm promoted to glory is to hear of the discovery of a complete Epic of Gilgamesh. I don't suppose we'll get any of that here, but it's out there somewhere under a rock being pissed on by a camel even as we speak or write or whatever.

Book Millionaire = scam scam scam

A little digging and one finds that the company behind this fiasco is Best Seller Publishing, Inc., now operating out of Minnesota, formerly of Wisconsin. They apparently do print-on-demand publishing. They drew a "not recommended" rating at the Preditors and Editors web site. Their own web site is in a redesign at the moment, thus no content.

Lori Prokop, the host (and co-Creator), and not surprisingly the Senior Group Publisher of Best Seller Publishing, Inc., is tied online to any number of those rah-rah, 'maximize your potential, quit your job, realize your dreams' seminars. She's a motivational marketing machine. She's not, however, rooted to television in any way, despite her claims of 10 years experience.

Hell, I have 36 years of televsion experience. I even remember when I had to get up to turn the channel.

Just say no.

*peeks at longegungirls link*

Oh no. Oh dear -God- no. Please don't tell me the reality show craze has found it's way into the halls of literature. Might as well give the cockroaches pointers of the finer points of civilization, 'cause it looks like their turn in line is coming up -real- soon.

Astro City rocks on toast though. I've only got the first trade, but Busiek and company are seriously bitchin' in my book. ^.^

Stacy

Some spare thoughts:

I have recently discovered in graphic novel collections, the Astro City comics. On the off-chance that I'm not the last person to read them, I will drop the note that, in the land of the superheros, they detail the life and times of the not-so-super...and, as John Cleese said in the Planter's Peanuts commercial, "they're jolly good."

As an additional benefit, the third collection, "Family Album" has a very nice introduction by HE.

On an entirely different train, as there are so many writers abounding here, I thought I'd share this link: http://www.bookmillionaire.com/index.html. I will admit that it seems a little Faustian, however perhaps any opportunity deserves consideration...

Canada
I think I have to check in more often. Thanks for the website. And just when I thought was getting a handle on life as we know it....damn...

What's odd about this? We get new stuff from V.C Andrews all the time.

No, seriously though, this is very cool.

- Barney

Oxyrhynchus Papyri

There's an online database for the latest discoveries concerning this awesome find: http://www.papyrology.ox.ac.uk/

(Life is truly amazing; who would've thought that we'd live in a time when a NEW play by Sophocles might make an appearance?)

Julie Schwartz memorial lecture
Just wanted to say that from a personal perspective I think it's very appropriate that the lecture has ended up at MIT. Growing up in the 60s, I was definitely a fan of Julie's books without realizing how much of my liking was due to his editorial style. In particular, having his protagonists be, for the most part, scientists and with numerous plots turning on or being set up by various science factoids. Given the science aspects of Julie's work and having worked there for a year myself, I think MIT is a perfect place for something in his memory.

SEVERAL EXTREMELY BRIEF REPLIES

CINDY: The earthquake was nowhere near us. Northern California, I believe. Didn't feel a thing. In fact, if I hadn't heard a newsbite on the radio much later yesterday, we'd never have known it even happened. But thanks for asking.

JOHN: In truth, no apology is really necessary. Subsequently rereading your post and my reply, I was once again dismayed to see that I'd probably unloaded my Big Fuckin' Bertha at the proverbial gnat. Not you, kiddo...the remark. I can see where I may well have overreacted and even misinterpreted. So, let me smile embarrassedly, scuffle my toe in the dust, and mumble that we are square and er uh um mrmee mrmee mrmee...

BRIAN SIANO: Thankyou thankyou thankyou for the tip on the Papyri. This is so exciting that I called Silverberg to give him the relay info. He'd done a column on these scrolls, last year I believe, and was excited to get this news for a follow-up.

TO ALL CONCERNED: Clifford Meth is an honorable man, as well as a fulltime champion of the needy, the noble, and the infirm. The roaches who diss him are beneath contempt; and the odious, the mendacious word-games they play to attempt his discredit are merely the sophomoric trickeries of those who envy someone who really and truly walks the walk -- as opposed to themselves and their swine ilk -- who waste everyone's time and energy like rabid, yapping hyenas, just to get thrown gobbets of deadmeat attention.

Yr. pal, Harlan

My profuse apologies
My profuse apologies to Harlan and everyone else concerning my earlier post about the Protocols. When I read "Holy Blood's" claim, I assumed the authors intended to further debunk the Protocols. It was never my intention to suggest that that evil book has any truthfulness or validity.

Again, please accept my apologies.

Bugs Bunny Physics
Cindy wrote: "When I was little I believed that if I could jump straight up in the air just before the elevator hit the ground it would save my life."

They actually covered this topic on the sometimes-entertaining show "Mythbusters." They set their crash test dummy (Buster) up with some sort of little pneumatic device that popped him up with roughly the same speed and force of an average human jump. Then they dropped the elevator car about four or five floors. I think "Buster's" spine punctured his skull, and I seem to remember some limbs breaking off. Maybe he lost his head. At any rate, going thwack into the ceiling of the elevator is not pretty, whether you jump or not.

Amy

p.s. "This is what part of the alphabet would look like if you eliminated 'q' and 'r.'" -- Mitch Hedberg

I saw the reports of the earthquake. Harlan did y'all feel it?

Cindy

p.s. Susan was right, you were a hero in the elevator incident. I would have had a heart attack. I've had a recurring nightmare about a plummetting elevator since I was a kid. Every time and I mean EVERY time I get on one, either in the real world or my dreams it is with marked trepidation. I always think, " I know better than to do this" but for whatever reason I ignore my instincts. When I was little I believed that if I could jump straight up in the air just before the elevator hit the ground it would save my life. I wasn't quite normal as a child either.

I'd written a reply to John about the "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" nonsense. But a quick check with Wikipedia reveals some decent info on the matter. John, check it out.

The main problem with _Holy Blood_ and the _Protocols_ is this. The _Protocols_ are, without any reasonable doubt, a forgery, and one with oceans of blood for a legacy. No rational person would wish to give them any degree of legitimacy.

So, the authors of _Holy Blood_ had a choice: either they could denounce them as a forgery, or simply leave them out of the conspiracy tale they were weaving. After all, if they were responsible scholars, they'd know and say they were forgeries. But they didn't. They chose a third path, where they fold the _Protocols_ myth into their own tales of Merovignians and Priories. So they wind up claiming that they are _partly_ legitimate. Thus, they attempt to take the die-hard energy of anti-Semitic mythology, and use it to give their cheap little drama an extra charge.



But let me pass along a brighter bit of news of historical import. Oxford University, and the Egypt Exploration Society, have been using infrared technology to examine the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, papyruses taken from ancient garbage dumps in Egypt. For the first time in centuries, these texts are being _read_. And what are these texts? A newly-discovered tragedy by Sophocles. Part of a novel by Lucian of Samosata. Histories of the Trojan War. And, potentially, lost Gospels. Potentially five million words of the Greeks will be restored to our collective heritage, people.
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/science_technology/story.jsp?story=630165

All right, moving on to more pleasant topics.

Today was new comic day for this Canucklehead. I picked up the latest trade for Invicible, the second volume of Darywn Cooke's -amazing- DC: The New Frontier, and the first issue of Grant Morrison's Zatanna series, whose art looks very mrowr.

Went with a friend to see the Amityville Horror remake, somewhat against my better judgement, but she was cute and I'm a breathing male so things rolled from there.

My reluctance comes from an incident in childhood. By six or seven years old I was already a voracious reader, devouring comics, read-along books, and children's paperbacks. I was visiting my aunt and uncle's and was left to my own devices (never a good idea in my case to this very day) and I wandered into my cousin's room, finding a paperback on her nightstand. I read about midway through it before we had to go home. The resulting two weeks of nightmares from reading Jay Anson's The Amityville Horror left a lingering impression. It was on my list of Movies Stacy Doesn't Mess With, whose only other occupants remain The Exorcist and Disney's Peter and the Wolf. The residue of a Catholic upbringing is still prevalent enough to make me avoid that flick, and as for the Wolf. . .brr. 'Nuff said. Hey, Superman has kryptonite right?

My brother and I gear up to attend Celebration III, the grandest of all Star Wars related conventions in a few days. From April 21-24 I will be surrounded by fellow geeks, talking Star Wars, seeing Star Wars, and gawking at the guy who held the boom mike over Mark Hamil for three minutes in 1977, or the Jawa who shot Artoo. Seriously, it should be fun, and we're going to be getting a visit from the man himself, George Lucas. You may read in the local press how Lucas sicked security on some portly Canadian who tried to hug him. Yeah, yeah, the movies aren't Citizen Kane or The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, but for me they're a part of my childhood, and I retain a fondness for that place and time in my childhood that lightsabers 'n Wookies takes me back to. Should be a lark.

New shots off the set of Superman Returns have me more and more hopeful. Bryan Singer breathed life into my least favorite Marvel comic, will lightning strike a third time for a different franchise? I hope so. I had my doubts about that Brandon Routh(sp?) fellow, but I have to say the pictures of him as Clark Kent evoke the Curt Swan/John Byrne kinda look with a strong influence of Christopher Reeve. And you can't go wrong with that kind of combo.

Anyway, I'm gassing on because working the night shift on a helpdesk on Saturday night rots. I'll talk to you guys later.

Take it easy,

Stacy

Stains
JOHN, and anyone else interested:

The more I read about this crap the more vertigo I feel. Being outside the direct influence of all the faiths (that even today seem to circle each other like starved jackals), I'd like to think I'm immune to these conspiracy theories and murderous gossip, but this queasy feeling tells me otherwise.

It's easy to have someone else link things up for you, it's hard to get into the sources themselves and find your own answers. Why bother studying history when some jackass can get a book published, not on merit, but simply because the whispers and insinuations FEEL true. That the gaps of history are wide enough that we can fit what we like into them, and call it non-fiction.

From what I've seen, the Holy Blood writers want to say that it's not Jews but Freemasons that are the originators of the Protocols, and that the text was altered to implicate the Jews.

Whatever.

It all sounds the same to me. Switch one group for another. Anyone who doesn't want to play ball gets talked about behind their back, blamed for everything from the decline of Western Civilization to the moulding of bread.

Like so many deities, these all powerful, "evil" organizations seem totally unable to stop the flood of bullshit that threatens to engulf them. The government doesn't want you to know, but somehow they're too lazy to stop you from publishing your book.

The real horrors of life are so much more banal. It's disappointing, but realizing that is part of growing up.

If you want some historical, biblical perspective on the Da Vinci Code, this page gives you access, until Apr 30, to two lectures from a professor whose work tends to intersect with Brown's book.

http://www.teach12.com/ttc/davincicode.asp

It says one is allowed to give them to friends. I guess I'll count you guys as friends for tolerating my infrequent and verbose presence here.

Note the points the lecturer makes, and how willing he is to admit we just don't know enough to draw conclusions in a lot of areas. I wish more people were as lucid.

-Aaron

P.S.

I'm sure I'm not the only one who would appreciate a head's up when Eisner's book comes out.

A STERN REPLY TO JOHN:
SIR:

Do not be an idiot. "The Protocals..." is not, and never was, based on anything in the real world. It was a monstrous, totally fabricated document cobbled up by apparats employed specifically by the Tsarist regime to provide a political scapegoat.

Cease even suggesting there was any basis in fact ... you only continue to give life and breath to the most virulent anti-Semitic document ever published. It is given even a mote of credence only by illiterates and those who, in their heart of hearts actually hate or fear Jews, and who, in their bigotry, wallow in hate annd believe in "The Jewish Menace."

Your post is not innocent, nor innocently querulous. It is pernicious, because it is informed only by a shocking lack of common sense and common knowledge, by urban legend, and by prejudice purposely planted in your febrile imagination.

Either read Will's easily-assimilated graphic novel, or go to a real library and get the facts of how many times this piece of evil shit has been debunked and exposed (just like the Shroud of Turin, which is a similar hoax perpetrated by people with agendas). But one way or the other, fellah ... wise up.

Harlan Ellison

To Alex Krislov:

I recently read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail," which was a huge (and acknowledged) influence on Dan Brown's best-seller "The Da Vinci Code." The book suggests that the Protocols was actually about the Priory of Sion. Does Eisner's book about the Protocols mention this theory?

Neil Gaiman has information up at his site --

http://www.neilgaiman.com/journal/journal.asp

about the Julius Schwartz Memorial Lecture series, including who to send donations to (it will be hosted by MIT, btw). It's just a bit down in the first entry there.

Cheers, Jon

The Meth debate -- a weenie roast, as in a bunch of weenies roasting each other. Very odd indeed!

Addy for the ADD article.

http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com/blog/2004/03/putting-me-in-meth-it-occurs-to-me.html

Addy for Mike Netzer's response; title is Bad Blood in the Galaxy.

http://www.michaelnetzer.com/

Addy for comments to Netzer.

http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=11573488&postID=111349783397243114&isPopup=true


2 comments have been 'removed by poster'. Poster is identified as ADD be another poster.

Maybe ADD deleted his other comment from this morning at his blog?

As suggested ealrier, maybe any discussion of these events should be at the other place.

It may be a bit beyond the scope of this website, but darn if it wouldn't be great to listen to an audio stream of those panels! Even a transcript would be a delight to read.

WHC Tapes
Barney, FinderDoug and Harlan:

I have fairly decent tape of 4 of Harlan's speaking gigs at the WHC, and I was wondering if any of you had a format preference. If not, I'm burning them willy-nilly and you'll deal with whatever I default to; I'll send them out when I'm done (maybe a week or two).

Here are your choices: DVD+RW/DVD+R/DVD-RW/DVD-R or VHS tape. Depending on your DVD player, you might be able to play one, all, or a melange of the above listed formats.

Here's what I have:

1. How to Present Your Fiction/Reading to a Live Audience, w/ Bill Breedlove, Harlan Ellison, Jack Ketchum, Mark McLaughlin, Michael Slade, and Tim Waggoner.

2. A 1 hour interview and audience Q&A with Guest of Honor Harlan Ellison. I have the Q&A, but I stopped taping prior to the reading (great Mickey-voice Harlan, even if you were a bit gravelly that day).

3. Panel: Hollywood Calls - So You Want to Go To Hollywood? w/ David Morrell, Neal Marshall Stevens, Harlan Ellison, F. Paul Wilson, Mick Garris, John Skipp, and Joe Lansdale.

4. Panel: "If I knew Then..." -- Mistakes I've Made w/ Simon Wood, Brian Keene, Harlan Ellison, and Phil Nutman. (Jack Ketchum was scheduled, but was not there).

(I wish I got Barney's Gay and Lesbian Issues Panel, but dang if I wasn't out of tape when I got there!)

-Keith

Bradbury:

Bradbury is not a writer. He's a magician. I don't know of anyone who can work such magic with words. And whose spells, once read, leave the reader immeasurably improved having read them. "Something Wicked This Way Comes" I will take to my grave, and I will face oblivion serenly if I can live like thsoe characters.

But the book that keeps me eternally young is "The Halloween Tree", which I re-read every year.

Eisner and Barney and Adam
There are some people who just thrive on being naughty for naughtiness sake, and a remark like that, about Eisner, is certainly an example. A note to Eisner fans: I've just recieved a reviewer's copy of his final book "The Plot: The Secret History of the Protocol of the Elders of Zion." It's an excellent introduction to the history of that infamous work, lovingly assembled with an introduction by Umberto Eco and an afterward by Stephen Eric Bronner--the author of the definitive history of the "Protocols." It's not a graphic novel, per se, but its instructive, useful--and beautifully drawn. I'll be doing a review of it before its official publication in May.

Barney, so sorry to hear about your tendon. The pain must be exquisite. If there's anything I can do, you know how to reach me.

Adam--thanks for the great elevator story. With luck, it will replace the inane apocryphal elevator story of yore. I don't envy you guys a bit. I'm not claustrophobic either, but I've always disliked really crowded elevators. I sweat too much at the best of times. In a crowded box, I sphritz like a sponge under pressure.

Doane on Eisner
Jim Reeber:

Where did Doane say that about Eisner? I don't see it on what I assume is his blog:

http://www.comicbookgalaxy.com/blog/

A mention of Harlan
An Indian by any other name is still American:
When you think about it, what's in a name, really?
By Sumana Harihareswara, CONTRIBUTOR, Inside Bay Area

http://www.insidebayarea.com/bayarealiving/ci_2661158

Thanks Jim. It was nothing. Or, rather, it was too easy. Saying good things about Clifford Meth is like giving endorsements to Zorro. He don't need my help. But I get to stand in GREAT company. So, easy peasey.

It's really a tempest in a teapot folks, but if any of you is tempted to follow-up I'm begging you to do it "over there" and not here. Or if you must ask a question about any of this - and trust me - your time WILL NOT be rewarded - please send them to my gmail address and NOT here. Double plus thanks.

- Barney

Bradbury memory lane....etc
Ahh. It's been a number of years since I picked up a Ray Bradbury book - I should reread them. I got started on sf classics when I was about 14 and got heavily into THE MARTIAN CHRONICLES, FAHRENHEIT 451 and THE ILLUSTRATED MAN. It was awhile before I could handle SOMETHING WICKED THIS WAY COMES...very powerful book....Bradbury has written many extremely memorable stories.

All this argument over movie dialogue and which film contained a certain line makes me want to ask, "But which SCREENWRITER gave him the line?"

Kristin

F.A.O. Barney
Barney,

I appreciated your post to Michael Netzer's forum regarding Alan David Doane. You should note that Doane is not just a BWS toadie--he's also part of Gary Groth's legion of paid slugs. Cliff has done NOTHING but help down-and-out creators and Doane/Groth have added him to thier frequent hit lists. Doane is a particularly loathsome creature whose blog seems to compete with Groth for distasteful, mean-spirited attacks. From his Doane's blog just this morning: "Will Eisner, this is me fucking you in the ass from beyond the grave."

To Mr. Loftus: Thanks for the Bradbury info. Didn't know about the Irish stories. Something Wicked This Way Comes was the first Bradbury book I read, and it still scares me thinking about it.

For Mr. Ellison: If you ever read this post - Thank you. My brain has not turned into Jello, largely because I rediscovered you (after a long hiatus, I apologize) and am now reading the entire back catalogue (what I missed since 1985). I read The Glass Teat at fifteen, and now I'm reading the Hornbook at forty-five. And thanks, for showing up in a blizzard here twenty years ago. I can still remember the story you read that night. That's what I miss most nowadays- a really impassioned argument about something more that who gets thrown off the island this week.

And for anyone looking for great television, see if you can get Rick Mercer's Made in Canada anywhere on DVD. It's brilliant, cynical, hilariously funny and unlikely to be shown anywhere on American TV. That's your Canadian content for this week.

Bradbury, Bradbury

I read two of Bradbury's Irish stories -- "The Terrible Conflagration Up at the Place" and "The Cold Wind and the Warm" -- as the initial performance in what I hope will be an ongoing Story Time for Grownups series (MFK Fisher this month, Italo Calvino in May) every first Monday at a local coffee house.

People came up to me afterward and said they were big Bradbury fans but were totally unfamiliar with his Irish stories, and one said if I hadn't announced the author up front, they never would have guessed it was him.

One of my favorite all-time books is _Something Wicked This Way Comes_. I suspect I'm the one person on the planet who has read it cover to cover, out loud, four times.

The Weather
You know...since THE DAY AFTER TOMORROW, someone (maybe me!) should adapt Tommy Thompson's THE WEATHER MAN for the screen.

Next time you are stuck in an elevator, thank your lucky stars you are not trapped with THIS GUY!!

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B00004U93C/ref=pd_krex_np_c/103-5194126-4494244

"You dirty rat..."
Of course Cagney never said, "you dirty rat... you killed my brother", but few people probably know that a similar phrase is part of the test to ensure all the alphabetical keys on a typewriter are working properly.

That's right. Contrary to popular rumor, one does not type, "the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dogs." Rather, the correct test is, "gee, the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy cats. His brother was killed by the dirty rats."

Just wanted to set the record straight on behalf of dogs everywhere.

Rick

EZRA: I've never had that reaction to any particular writer but it does happen from time to time in general. For instance: I can read THE PROUD ROBOT by Henry Kuttner any time but some days I can't make it more than a few paragraphs into any of his other stories. A few weeks later I just get in the mood for it and can read nothing but Kuttner.

I get the same for any writer, even Harlan (sorry, buddy. You're still tops though).

My favorite Bradbury story that I place above all his other work is THE PEDESTRIAN. Only because the same thing happened to me years ago. It was a nice evening and I decided to take a walk through the neighborhood (keep in mind this is a small town with usually only one full time police officer on duty at a time). And as I passed through a small park I got beamed with a spotlight. The cop car approached, asked for ID and questioned me about what I was doing. I was livid yet in a mild state of shock. The Bradbury story came immediately to mind. I was fighting my anti-authoritarian programming and the confusion created by the parallel between the situation and the story. A surreal moment. I've never read the story the same since and I can read it at any time.

Mentioning Ray Bradbury always reminds me of my own strange relationship to his work. Reading MARTIAN CHRONICLES for the first time was one of the great magical reading experiences of my life. Since then I must have read it hundreds of times. Writing about it now makes me want to go grab one of my copies and read it again. MC is certainly one my "desert island" books for sure.

And yet when I go to his other books they don't grab me at all. In fact none of his other work touches me except for some of his short stories (and yes I know MC began as a set of interrelated short stories.) Undoubtedly this is the result of some personal quirk in my own psychology. Mr. Bradbury's worth as an artist is certainly beyond dispute.

I have long since ceased trying to account for this. I have never reacted this way to any other writer’s work. But rather than psychoanalyzing me I would just ask, has anyone else ever had this reaction, where you only liked one book by an author but really loved that one book?

THE PILLOW MAN
(The odd thing is that the same four day weekend where we got stuck in the elevator also saw us evacuated from a subway fire, me falling down a flight of stairs, both of us drenched by a sudden rainfall, Judi bitten by a horse, and both of us trapped for seven hours in an airline terminal without air conditioning. Gaaah.)

Okay, a few words about the Broadway play we saw last Thursday night.

THE PILLOWMAN, by Martin McDonagh, is about a writer of horror fiction (Billy
Crudup), whose works runs to "once upon a time" fables about unlucky children
and the horrible things that happen to them. (And yes, we get to see several
of these acted out, on a second stage above the first.) He happens to live
in a totalitarian state, and is being interrogated by two ruthless cops
(Jeff Goldblum and Zjelko Ivanek), who find similarities between his stories
and a recent series of actual murders.

The line between what he's being persecuted for, the murders or his effrontery
in writing something others consider offensive, is blurred throughout.

The focus is on why he writes such terrible things, why it's important,
whether he holds any responsibility (even at a remove) for the crimes, and
whether his life work should be burned.

It's surprisingly funny, at times: the cops use absurdities and irrelevancies
to throw their interview subjects off guard, and are just as often abusive
toward each other. It's just as often horrific: one of the stories deals
with behavior so awful that it can only be the stuff of fiction, and it
turns out to be based on truth and have a very central bearing to the facts
of the case.

The mystery aside, the drama lies in the fate of a writer who finds the
survival of his work more important to him than his own life, and in just
what he's working out with his fiction.

My quick, and not very incisive review: it's searing, upsetting stuff. But
I think it's one of the best plays I've ever seen about this thing we do.
I'd call it required watching for anybody in the field (especially for folks
whose imaginations ever run toward the macabre). It spoke to me, is what I'm saying.

And Crudup, Goldblum, and Ivanek are all terrific in it.

For those around the country, if you're fortunate enough to find yourself in the path of a traveling company, please stop in. And if you're in NYC, check it out. It lingers.

THE PILLOW MAN
(The odd thing is that the same four day weekend where we got stuck in the elevator also saw us evacuated from a subway fire, me falling down a flight of stairs, both of us drenched by a sudden rainfall, Judi bitten by a horse, and both of us trapped for seven hours in an airline terminal without air conditioning. Gaaah.)

Okay, a few words about the Broadway play we saw last Thursday night.

THE PILLOWMAN, by Martin McDonagh, is about a writer of horror fiction (Billy
Crudup), whose works runs to "once upon a time" fables about unlucky children
and the horrible things that happen to them. (And yes, we get to see several
of these acted out, on a second stage above the first.) He happens to live
in a totalitarian state, and is being interrogated by two ruthless cops
(Jeff Goldblum and Zjelko Ivanek), who find similarities between his stories
and a recent series of actual murders.

The line between what he's being persecuted for, the murders or his effrontery
in writing something others consider offensive, is blurred throughout.

The focus is on why he writes such terrible things, why it's important,
whether he holds any responsibility (even at a remove) for the crimes, and
whether his life work should be burned.

It's surprisingly funny, at times: the cops use absurdities and irrelevancies
to throw their interview subjects off guard, and are just as often abusive
toward each other. It's just as often horrific: one of the stories deals
with behavior so awful that it can only be the stuff of fiction, and it
turns out to be based on truth and have a very central bearing to the facts
of the case.

The mystery aside, the drama lies in the fate of a writer who finds the
survival of his work more important to him than his own life, and in just
what he's working out with his fiction.

My quick, and not very incisive review: it's searing, upsetting stuff. But
I think it's one of the best plays I've ever seen about this thing we do.
I'd call it required watching for anybody in the field (especially for folks
whose imaginations ever run toward the macabre). It spoke to me, is what I'm saying.

And Crudup, Goldblum, and Ivanek are all terrific in it.

For those around the country, if you're fortunate enough to find yourself in the path of a traveling company, please stop in. And if you're in NYC, check it out. It lingers.

Harlan Ellison video clips
RICK WYATT: I've got 117 megs of Harlan video from a 1995 Interactive Entertainment interview regarding (mostly) I Have No Mouth, and I Must Scream (the game). If Harlan is cool with it, and you have room for it, I would be happy to burn a DVD for Webderland. I can just send the video clips, sans crappy 90s CD-zine packaging. Email me if you're interested.

Digging through my Harlan stuff in a so-far fruitless search for On the Road vol.1,
Amy

BEN,

"You dirty rat, I'm going to get rid of you just like you gave it to my brother!" was, indeed, spoken by James Cagney, but not in ANGLES WITH DIRTY FACES.

He said it in the 1932 movie TAXI!

You can find the line by going to the IMDB page for the movie at:

http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0023556/combined

Then click on the hyperlink under the name of Cagney's character Matt Nolan.


HARLAN,

I should have done this some time ago but, well, things have been strange around here of late.

Anyway, the pictures arrived intact. I thank you for them. But I don't know why Susan would want to risk breaking such a nice camera by using me as a model.

Bob Ingersoll

ps (Showering: Oh Boy!)
Things to get:
1> A chair to put in the shower
2> A handheld shower nozzle
3> A whole box of the really good garbage bags with the ability to "cinch"
4> Waterproof tape that won't rip hair out by the roots (my experiment with packing tape was a dismal failure!)

Patience Is A Hard Thing.....
Hey Barney,

If ripping your achilles is the one of the worst athletic-type injuries you can receive, a close #2 is ripping your ACL. I tore mine right in the middle of a **really competitive** pickup game of Ultimate Frisbee, and it took me two months just to get through my HMO's bureaucratic red tape to an orthopedist (the education I gained will cut that time down considerably next time something like this happens). I spent those two months limping around, depressed, a shell of my former "self." I couldn't play Ultimate, couldn't use the $600.00 of brand spanking new backpacking equipment I had just bought. I couldn't go out for a run. I couldn't even jog across the street to beat a flashing "don't walk" sign.

(What's funny is that every time that happened, a line Harlan wrote always popped into my mind. I don't remember the context, but the line was "like a quadruple amputee crossing a busy intersection." Picture, if you will, a guy furiously limping across the street with a laughing grin plastered on his face. Yep, that was me!)

I got the surgery, did the rehab, and six months later I was able to work Ultimate, trail running, backpacking (in general, my life) back into my, well, life.

But my whole personality has been transformed. My "new" self would much rather go out on a long trail run or a backpacking trip with friends than risk my health (or worse, someone else's) just to score a point in a silly game (although I still play).

Obviously, if I were to tear my knee up again, I would have the surgery, endure six months of rehab and I would be fine, but such a procedure, as common as it is, isn't there to be wasted on me simply because I want to prove to some stranger that I'm still "THE MAN."

Could someone please inform me as to WHERE the HELL "you dirty rat" came from? Allegedly, this line was born out of the James Cagney crime drama ANGELS WITH DIRTY FACES, but Cagney doesn't have any such line in the movie; nor does anyone else, for that matter.

I can't help but erupt in giggles every time I think about Cagney getting a migraine every time a slack-jawed "fan" came up with a request for him to say the three magic words. I can see the veins bulging on his forehead now...

Bradbury

Anyone catch Ray Bradbury on COAST TO COAST AM monday night?
Not that it's the type of show most of us would listen to, nor was it a very informative or enlightening interview but it was extremely delightful to hear ol' Ray's voice (and still with that childlike love and wonder).

I recall Harlan huffing once about writers who complain about writing being "work." Then adding "you should be out digging ditches (can't for the life of me recall where I heard it)." Ray commented likewise: "People make it into work and they ruin it." Truly a man who loves his craft.

That doesn't even come close to summing it up but I'm still in awe. I gotta go read.

Things to NOT do and things to finally do
***Harlan/Susan/Tim/Doug etc.***

One or two of you have already heard this by telephonic bitch but I wanted to pass this on to the rest of you as sage advice. DO NOT EVER rip your achilles in half like a banjo string. Why?

Well, the pain is unique for starters. But not unmanageable.

Pretty girls will look away as though you are Lon Chaney in THE HUNCHBACK at the "funny" way you now "walk". That's some REAL pain.

But, BUT, here's the real pisser.

Yesterday they bumped my surgery back a week to next Wednesday since my Doctor had 6 other surgeries to perform today. That's ok. I didn't particularly want to be the "car manufactured on a friday afternoon" as it were, so that's cool.

But, this time my Doctor went into the lifestyle details I have to look forward to since he had the MRI's to confirm the totality of the damage. [insert favorite epithets here] THREE different hard casts, with three different foot orientations over a period of 12 weeks. Three months of NO driving. Showering is gonna be a bitch and a half. Once they let me. No weight bearing for at least 9 of the 12 weeks. [more cursing] I live in a 3 story brownstone with my bookstore books and packing station in the basement.

Folks - can you say cranky, stinky cabin fever? I sure can.

There goes most of the summer. Son Of A Bitch.

For those of you with REAL problems, I'm sorry. In truth I'm grateful this can all be fixed and if I were a better man I would be more quiet and philosophical about this. They're still building that wing on Casa Dannelke.

The good news is that since I am down to 1 hour of DEADWOOD a week [because television ITBFSP]- and only, what, 5 more of those in Season 2, it looks like I will have no more excuses with regard to writing/finishing the 2 plays, 2 short stories and 2 super secret squirrel other projects I've been jawing for years. Put up or shut up, Dannelke. That 9 day Farenheit 451 statistic is haunting me.

However, for those of you who know me REAL WELL, if you have a DVD or two that is obscure and might float my boat, feel free to send it to 319 North 8th Street, Allentown, Pa. 18102 and I'll turn it around in a couple of days just like I do the Netflix stuff. I'm actually very good at getting things in the mail these days. C'mon. You know those fetish objects are gathering dust, same as my RED DWARF tapes. Save what's left of my sanity as I spiral down into stinky bathrobe mode.

- Barney

Shameless, PA.

Bear witness to sleazy Canadian officials using pick axes/hockey sticks/penis substitutes to crush the skulls of helpless baby seals leaving them to writhe and twitch in their death agony before being skinned alive. Watch as these same Canadian officials drop their pants and dirty underwear and masturbate in public. Be warned not for the sqeamish.

http://shepherd.textamerica.com/?r=2289059

The Ray Bradbury Webpage
Last night, I was surfing and came upon Ray Bradbury's website...I must say...the man is an icon to this genre we call Science Fiction. His video clips alone, give me insight on the tribulations and trials writer's like myself, are going through.
It took him five years to do the MARTIAN CHRONICLES and only
nine days to do FAHRENHEIT 451. All who inspire to be SF writers and/or readers should check out his site.

Adam -

I can understand the romantic, sitcom appeal of being stuck in an elevator with writers. I think it's the influence of every bad sitcom that had a flashback episode with two leads stuck in the basement, attic, elevator, freezer, lifeboat, alien mothership, etc.

Sure, BEING there is a different story. But I bet it'll be one of those stories you'll tell the young'uns.

I'm interested to hear the different versions of the story that will circulate elsewhere on thar intrawebs.

Phone Booth + cousins
"Phone Booth" was a fairly riveting ride courtesy of a nicely chosen cast + the writing talents of Larry Cohen, who unfortunately also penned "Cellular" while PB was being tossed from studio to studio. A full account was printed in the New Yorker (I believe) around six months ago or so as a piece on Cohen himself and other projects. Great article, but I think that issue went to the recycling bin. Many thanks to A-T Castro for his elevator account. Harlan, it goes without saying--glad you all pulled through!

I just saw reports that Andrea Dworkin, a well known feminist writer and critic, had passed away last weekend at the age of 58.

Whether you agreed with her positions or not, the woman was a hell of a writer.

More info can be found here: http://www.nysun.com/article/12084

Free With This Box, indeed
*** Adam *** I'm sorry I missed meeting you this past weekend. On the other hand I was VERY HAPPY to have missed you if that "ride" was what would have been required. Not to mention that my extra 245lb's probably would have put the elevator in the redline zone and added to the heat problem.

When I saw Tim and Harlan minutes after they were released and they said "you missed it" I thanked my lucky stars. I have my anecdotes and Holy Relics. That noise I can cheerfuly do without.

- Barney

Anyone ever see a movie called Phone Booth? It's about a guy (played by Colin Ferrell) who gets trapped inside a phone booth by an unseen psychopath with a rifle. It's out on DVD now, I'm sure.

Box of Death
Adam-Troy: If I'd been stuck in there, at least Harlan wouldn't have worried about your potential panic attack. I think I might've distracted him by going fetal and popping Xanax in the corner. That might've shown him the difference between being overheated and a complete freak-out.

ALWAYS waiting for the long drop and sudden stop,
Amy

Direct Replies
Steve Dooner: you only think you're kidding. Two of the folks I told the story to quivered with fanboy envy. One of them was an author. I received e-mail from someone who said, "I would KILL to have been stuck in that elevator." I was dumbfounded. "Uh, really?"

Maybe some imagine the event as a compressed con panel.

In practice, it was just a bunch of sweaty, pissed-off people, leavening the crisis with as much humor as they could.

And Nimdok: naaah, I just think the line got stepped on with humor.

ADAM TROY CASTRO: Just think how many people would love a chance to be trapped in an elevator with Harlan Ellison? I sense a killer, award-winning essay in this!

HARLAN ELLISON: Just think how many people would love a chance to be trapped in an elevator with Adam Troy Castro? I sense a killer, award-winning essay in this!

Just causin' trouble,

Steve Dooner

*ahem*
Adam-Troy Castro writes:
"At one point during the crisis, I cleverly said, "If any of you are named Nimdok, I don't want to know about it," but just then several shouting people stepped on the line, and everybody missed my pointed literary reference."

Okay. I'm changing my email address if not even Ellison caught that one. Maybe just chalk it up to duress...?

I just heard that John Brosnan, a British SF author and fan, passed away. The guy was sort of important to me because one of his books was the very first hardcover I ever bought for myself.

This was 1973 or 1974. The book was titled _Movie Magic: the History of Special Effects in the Cinema_, and it remains the definitive work on the subject-- at least, until CGI came along and changed everything. (Okay, there was also Raymond Fielding's _The Technique of Special Effects Cinematography_, but that was a technical reference for tradesmen.)

And I do mean _definitive_. It offered a good history of the industry, with very good props given to the early masters of the field, like John Fulton and Linwood Dunn and Willis O'Brien and Georges Melies. It offered special chapters on the British effects industry, war films, the then-current wave of violence in films, model animators and _2001_. (This was where I first heard of Ray Harryhausen.)

And it actually had good descriptions of the _technical_ details. For example, take blue-screen travelling-matte processes. I'm sure most of us know that they film actors in front of a blue screen, and the blue area is where they stick the fake backgrounds. But how many of us wondered, like I did, "Okay, so how do they use the blue to replace the background?" Brosnan's book cleared that mystery up for me.

Jay,

In recent times, a COUPLE of 'Robs' have haunted these stomping grounds, but I'll assume you wuz referrin' t'li'l ol' ME. Maybe NOT.

In any case, I would like to get into SPIDER, and post a quick thesis. But time is very, very tight for me right now; important things are goin' on. I may not be able to do it in conjunction with a schedule (and do the thing any justice). I'll probably have to do it at my own pace.

**Early Morning Venting (very generalized, and a bit off-the-wall):

The following thoughts are not particularly ordered, as I am just waking up. But I got a 'tude this a.m., and, well, in the words of Oscar Wilde, "We are born crying, live complaining, and die disappointed".

The political landscape, to me, is becoming like the fallout of volcanic ash. (Krakatoa is still fresh in my mind from last week's PBS documentary)

I have 3 more semesters before I finish my degree (Universities on the semester system take FOREVER to finish!). Morale among both students and professors (I was speaking with one Professor about this last night; I think she was nearly in tears) has been low, given the budget cuts and our lousy financial aid system. This Conservative "re-alignment" - this blind catering to the wealthy and to the corporations, and the anticipated corruption among the Bush people (with the slimy Tom Delay heading the helm) - is tearing apart lives.

No one seems to give a fuck. Every one is busy looking after himself, at the other guy's expense. The usual gifts that come with Republican mind-set. Recent encounters with a number of employers, whose behavior - w/o being specific - disgusted the hell out of me - has reinforced that sentiment.

And then, on occasion, I read a Conservative here on the board say, "you just can't talk to these lefties". Well, just follow the gripes and you won't be so perplexed.

With respect to myopic Conservatives, right now...I don't like ANY of you; I don't "respect" your opinion (a very tired phrase), as it were:

Yeah, I have a chip on my shoulder, and it will be there long after I make it in my profession. But it's a contempt I am going to have to deal with in the long run, so that it doesn't snowball into irrational hate, or it will defeat me in more constructive pursuits. That is one reason I hang on to Harlan - my "buddy", as my ex-girlfriend calls him (even though we only met a few times) - to help me keep me focused on the higher goals. Emotions are a tough thing to cope with. They can cement the cobbles of irrationality. We all begin to live too much in our own worlds, involuntarily enclosing ourselves, something important to remember in order to keep the ground level.

I apologize for the diatribe. As a rule, I try to keep this shit oughtta here these days.

...Yet, it DID feel good: Now I can get through one more day without threatening lives.

SPIDER Discussion Updates
JUST A REMINDER ---

Rick has moved the SPIDER topics into their own forum over on the other board. I have posted what I believe to be the last "official" schedule and will continue to update it as I receive additions and corrections.

If you agreed to lead a discussion, please double check the date scheduled - I believe ROB was on the list for this week. Let me knmow if you wish to add a date and title.

Sorry it's been a flakey start up, my dad is out of the hospital and now I've got an apartment contaminated by Strep. But back at it...

Shafted With Harlan, continued
Harlan wrote:

Adam took umbrage at my (I thought inspired) comment that when we made the movie of the Doomed 9 in the Elevator, he would be the Elisha Cook, Jr. character, and the screenplay would call for him to be the first to die. Then Judi could be the Shelley Winters grieving Jewish widow.


Thanks a hell of a lot. I repressed that exchange entirely. (And, yeah, I didn't take it at all well. My wife didn't like the Shelley Winters comment either, though for reasons Harlan didn't think of: i.e. she once weighed 300 pounds more than she does now, and though relatively svelte is still hyper-sensitive to fat jokes. (Harlan: seriously, don't worry about it. I'm talking the life resonance, not any perceived intention. And she's more than fine.)

At one point during the crisis, I cleverly said, "If any of you are named Nimdok, I don't want to know about it," but just then several shouting people stepped on the line, and everybody missed my pointed literary reference.

elevators and keys
David Silver:

One important angle to your inquiry which is vital is to state what the specific relationship is to the god you want in this story. You could make the god up and say it's a local deity or whatever, but it feels as though you've begun with a desire for a thing, and then have set out to find it, instead of the other way around.

Chinese gods are especially temperamental in this respect. It feels more as though you're using the Roman attitude toward gods, to have something within a certain realm to which you can appeal for favor, rather than Chinese gods, which have more appreciable, fixed domains, and which reflect the obvious psychological needs in life, such as for protection and wealth.

The Chinese tradition, as I understand it, doesn't really take the evokation of gods very seriously. Prayer and asking for favor, it seems to me, is more a recognition of need than an attempt at a miracle.

So, specific to your case, the gods I pointed out (there are two or three depending on which tradition you refer to) are personifications of the desire to keep your house safe. The common Chinese tradition (influenced by Confucius and Mencius) usually favors faith in security and stability, and faith in a benevolent state. Thus, trying to find a Chinese god that might allow entry into a building seems to not really fit into Chinese mythology (as I understand it), as it would seem unlikely that there is a common desire on the part of citizens to break into buildings (I assume that's where you're going with the god of locks idea).

Examination of this cultural difference may be a key to understanding, and perhaps could lend a different angle to your story which might allow a foreign god into the picture. It's hard to say without knowing enough about your project, but I think more research into the traditional Chinese relationship to the gods and spirits in general might be the best help of all.

I'd love to be shown differently, as I always jump at the chance to have deeper understanding of Chinese cultural traditions.

Good luck / zhu ni hao yun

Elevator Survivors:

Perhaps I've been a bit of a luddite, but I tend to treat elevators like living things of a sort; as if what we're really doing is hitching a ride on the back of a temperamental breed of sloth.

If the elevator gives me the hinks, like lurching a foot before moving, or the door sensors don't seem to care if your finger is in the way, I try my best to avoid the thing. I realize that may not've been an option, but when I read that one woman got off the elevator before the doors closed, I was right there with her :)

Glad nothing too serious happened.

And... there's nothing quite like having a significant other call you a hero, I must say.

-Aaron

"Shafted With Harlan" was great! Thanks, Adam.

Ken Roche has a point about the film discussions. So in an attempt at a graceful segue, here's a relevant question I wanted to ask 20 years ago:

What did Harlan think of Frank Miller's little aside about him in "The Dark Knight Returns"? Has that question been answered here before?

Between the elevator story and the revelation that Barney and Roy Jones, Jr. are an item, my head is reeling...

Cheers, Jon

Harlan,

Jeff R. from San Diego posted the link you were awaiting (somewhere down below). I copied it here just to make sure you don't miss it.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/news_lz1v10cover.html

We are home. I will sleep for 15 hours.

Susan keeps kissing me and calling me "a hero."

Adam-Troy Castro was not claustrophobic, if he says not. But Judi kept repeating over and over, "I love you, honey; I love you, honey; I love you..." as if she thought we were all going down with the Poseidon. Adam took umbrage at my (I thought inspired) comment that when we made the movie of the Doomed 9 in the Elevator, he would be the Elisha Cook, Jr. character, and the screenplay would call for him to be the first to die. Then Judi could be the Shelley Winters grieving Jewish widow.

Don't know WHY he didn't think that was a swell idea.

I will sleep 16 hours.

I've come to despise New York City.

he

I'm home - in spite of the run-down feeling of yesterday evening which has manifested today in pre-sinus hijinx, cough drops, and a throat so raw it makes tartar look pan seared; and an apparent combination of power problems in Trenton and someone who jumped off a train northeast of NY that encouraged me to Amtrak three hours ahead of schedule, so I could arrive home as originally scheduled - I'm home. And I am never traveling again, because damned if I don't always come home sick. Three trips in a row now. Screw it. If a bubble is good enough for Howard Hughes...

Thanks to those who helped make it a great con - you know who you are. Now I'm going to fall into bed and attempt to beat back the Creeping Crud.

Sunshine Day
Adam-Troy Castro: Thanks for posting the anecdote! I'd been dying to hear the story since your last post. Harlan, stuck in an elevator for forty minutes WITHOUT Susan? Brrrrr. Sorry to hear you missed most of your reading, though.

Now, where are everyone ELSE'S stories about WHC?

The other things that made my day a happy one are:

1. I found a new and fabulous Italian restaurant in Denton, TX, of all places. It's Joey's...something. I could drive you there. Pollo Francese to die for, and homemade pasta.

2. I FINALLY FINALLY found a copy of Web of the City! It's just the Pyramid edition, but still! Been looking for it for ages. I also picked up few spares: Paingod and Other Delusions, and my third (hardcover, trade, and now regular paperback) copy of Spider Kiss. It was my introduction to Harlan, so it holds a special place in my heart.

And how was YOUR day?
Amy

"Shafted with Harlan" is the most interesting thing I've seen on this board in a long time. Other than this, it's pretty much been a haven for film bores these past weeks. Great job.

Yeah, Ezra, you did say that out loud. Whyfore you dunnit baffles me, though I'm thinking it's provocation for provocation's sake.

I've seen neither "Out of the Past" nor "The Seventh Victim." I am certainly not proud of my ignorance, but I don't see how my failure to dislike "Sin City" inures me to the virtues of quality filmmaking. And yeah, Tarantino's a hack and not my cup of tea, but it's Miller I see when I watch SC. A scared kid out of Vermont who wrote about a nightmare city he never knew. You and I saw the same movie, but we're informed by different sources when it comes to relevant background. Talk about your subtle differences...

feh. I'm embarassed I've even risen to such cheap bait, but I didn't want my silence to scream assent. It might be best to continue this dialogue via email (see above), as the conversation is probably growing tedious to others.

...which just goes to show ya, don't argue with a woman...about grammar...

The happy result of all the SUN CITY review fallout is that I made a fine purchase over the weekend of the DVD, OUT OF THE PAST. For research purposes you understand. What a beautiful film. And yes full of doom, fate and despair. And the violence is mostly submerged, roiling just below the surface. The pressure builds and when she blows everybody gets burned. (And to succumb to male type mental processes, at some point you do wonder if maybe a night with a 22 year old Jane Greer might have been worth taking a couple of rounds.)

Somebody mentioned it here already but I heard from another authoritative source that the Torneur/Val Lewton stuff is going to be released on DVD later this year. Hooray! THE SEVENTH VICTIM is a good one and has one of the great endings in cinema. Sadly, fans of SIN CITY will probably find it dull. Not a single cut off hand, dang! Just mood, feel, implication, all that subtle shit about which a hack like Quentin Tarantino would not have the slightest clue. (Damn was that out loud?)

And while we're talking about good movies, Kurosawa's KAGEMUSHA has been released as part of the Criterion Collection. Overall not on the level of RAN I think but still a good one!

...but did the elevator make an anti-Semitic remark?

Various, Including Shafted With Harlan
David: Thank you!


(I don't think I stand a snowball's chance, frankly, but I don't mind racking up nominations.)

It was one hell of a four-day weekend. In between the good stuff I fell
down a flight of stairs, Judi got her finger nipped by one of my sister's
horses, we got stuck in a sweltering elevator with Harlan Ellison, and we
found ourselves obliged to try for an earlier flight home, failing and therefore
spending ten hours in an airline terminal where by happy coincidence the
air conditioning had gone out.

Fortunate indeed that there was good stuff.

Re the elevator incident: I had previously taken the same elevator car three
times, going back and forth from the ballroom to the main programming floor,
and each time it dropped about a foot and gave a lurch before proceeding
on its journey. I came to think of this as its standard method of operations.

So, went to see Harlan give his two-hour presentation. He greeted the wife
and I warmly, was hilarious as usual, then demanded of us, "Don't you dare
leave until we have a chance to talk," so we promptly left to catch up with
some other people and then came back when the autograph line had exhausted
all but the last few stragglers. One funny chat later, with Harlan starving
and desperate to meet Susan for a bagel before his five o'clock panel, and
myself headed for my only item of programming at 4:30, nine of us trudged
from the ballroom to the elevator bank.

It needs to be said that Harlan was already major-league peeved at the hotel
at this point. Plumbing probs in his room, which they had not fixed for
three days. And a broken TV. He was not in the mood to be patient over a
mishandled crisis.

We all got in the elevator, which dropped a foot before the doors even closed.
One lady wisely said I'm not taking this and leaped out before the doors
closed. I, with my depth of experience, told everybody this was normal behavior
for this particular car. The doors closed, the elevator dropped again and
this time lost power. There was no emergency phone in the car. Harlan, who
was closest to the buttons, pressed the emergency buzzer. No response from
anybody. By happy circumstance cell phones worked, and we called the hotel
front desk, reaching a lady who heard what we had to say, found it incomprehensible,
and cut us off. We called again and this time reached somebody. It took
and unconscionable long time for hotel reps to get to the elevator doors,
by which time the temperature was rising fast and we were all covered with
sweat.

I need to note that one of the guys with us was in convention costume, wearing
skull-face makeup and a furry vest. There was also a young teen cheerleader
who had been helping the Ellisons sell books. We were pressed very tight.

I was the fattest guy on the elevator. Also the sweatiest and the palest.
I didn't get any more irate than Harlan did, but I must have shown more
physiological signs, as the consensus quickly arose that I was having a
panic attack. (I contend I wasn't, and was a little put out by that consensus.
But I did badly need to pee.) At one point Harlan confronted me: "Are you
claustrophobic?" I was taken aback. "No, I'm Jewish." Laughter. He grumbled:
"Great, we'll fill this cab with gas." I said, "You're already taking care
of that." More laughter -- there was plenty of joking all around, to tell
the truth. But it got ugly as it became clear that the hotel personnel had
absolutely no idea how to deal with the situation. Harlan kept yelling up
the shaft, "In your manager's office there is a PRY BAR which you are REQUIRED
BY LAW to have. Go there and bring it back." The hotel employees kept yelling
down to us that we weren't helping; we kept yelling back that neither were
they. They never did answer the pry bar suggestion -- fading into silence
whenever we suggested it -- and no, I don't think they ever gave this suggestion
enough respect to even look for one.

THey were telling us to be quiet and let them work on the problem. (Their
actions seemed limited to two bellhops banging at the elevator door with
broom handles.) But at half an hour, and then forty minutes, with the air
in the cab increasingly stifling, Harlan's voice carrying six stories up
the shaft where it was heard by Susan, the guy in the fur vest heating up
to the point where, when he moved to let me stand next to my wife, the glass
behind him became fogged in the shape of his body, ALL of our tempers were
fraying. I wanted to call 911, and say that the hotel was too incompetent
to deal with the problem, but nobody would let me. I *did* yell that there
were two veterans of heart attacks in the elevator (Harlan and my wife),
and that it had to be opened NOW, which got no response grander than, "Please
be quiet."

I need to establish, here, that Harlan wasn't the only one hurling abuse
at the hapless employees of the hotel. I was. My wife was. The guy in costume
was. None of us could believe that they wouldn't get the pry bar or that
they didn't have one. We were ALL threatening to sue, calling them stupid
and incompetent, and demanding IMMEDIATE action. Our mood kept vacillating
from mockery to rage.

At forty minutes, the trapped said to hell with this and started working
on the door from the inside. It turned out to be absurdly, embarrassingly
easy. The inner door opened in seconds. The outer door required only the
throwing of some releases. When the doors opened, the fresh air was bracing.
we were about two feet shy of the floor where we'd entered. The two hotel
employees, and their broom handle, told us we couldn't leave the elevator
until they got it to the same level. Harlan told them, fuck you, you try
to keep us on this hotbox we're coming through you. He told the teen to
hop off, then ordered me to go. I hesitated, because I didn't want to get
off before Harlan, and he exploded: GET OFF, CASTRO. I listened. Give him
credit: he did not leave the elevator until everybody else was safe. At
which point he assailed the employees about all the crap he'd been going
through since checking in and led an irate parade to the manager's office.

Judi insisted I run to my reading (then half-over), and I did, only to discover
that it had been abandoned by a fairly sizeable crowd of folks who I hadn't
seen in years and who saw my one programming item as an opportunity to catch
up with me. Later caught up with some of those, but it remained infuriating.

I spent my remaining two hours at the con denying to one and all that I'd
had a panic attack (an assertion which, by the simple act of being made,
called attention to the actual charge). I did manage to catch up with pretty
much everybody else involved, confirming that everybody was much happier
and had recovered with no ill effects.

I will say that this was only the second time I'd ever seen the man himself
in full-tilt irate mode, but I can't blame him for that, as I was pretty
much in the same operating condition. And that I was impressed by his consistent
concern for everybody else around him.

Just wanted to say a quick "home safe" to Tim, Doug, John, Scott, Harlan and anyone else who wonders - or hopes - that I'm stranded in a ditch wearing yesterday's convention underwear. A real con reprt to follow after I get caught up on mail [real and pixelated], goddamned doctor appointments and major face licking time from the best boxer on the planet.

Hope youz guyz also had safe trips.

- Barney

Newyawk, PA.

Thanks for everyone's comments about "Pleasantville." I didn't think the movie was "about" the 1950s, either, but about the rewriting of recent history.

Here's the context that informs "Pleasantville" for me--the mistaken idea that America has gone downhill morally since the '50s. I've met people who seriously believe that "Leave It to Beaver" was an accurate depiction of 1950s life, for no reason other than the show was a product of the era. I worked at a country radio station when the Judds had a hit with "Grandpa," a pathetic piece of reactionary glurge. If you believe the religious right, America's Great Wrong Turn down the road to sin and iniquity began when the Warren Court banned teacher-led prayer in school. Harlan addressed all this stuff in his essay "The Song the Sixties Sang" in the Harlan Ellison Hornbook.

David Broder has written that almost every political battle among baby-boomers is really about the meaning of the 1960s:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27207-2004Aug23.html

Some thanks, some congratulations, and more movie stuff...

To Aaron Teschner: Yes, I did follow up on your lead, and, although it was not exactly what I needed, it did reveal some other paths of constructive inquiry, so for that I truly thank you. To everybody else, once again, any specific information on any Chinese "god" or spirit in folklore connected with keys, locks, or doors would be appreciated. I'm hoping to plot this into a story I'm writing.

To Adam-Troy Castro: I normally don't pay too much attention to the award scene anymore (ever since it became clear to me that a select few authors were only winning on the basis of their fanatical friends stuffing the ballot boxes, that the "grand master" title was a political boondoggle with pointless restrictions that guaranteed too many of our greatest would die before they could be honored, and then learning of the self-righteous blackballing of our host from such a worthy title a few years ago), but I was delighted today to discover that you've been nominated again for a Nebula. I read all five of the novella nominees when they were originally published last year, and I can honestly say that your "The Tangled Strings of the Marionettes" knocked the wind out of me! Memorable, remarkable, and still evoking responses months after I read it. A real dance with death, a metaphorical exploration of how we can challenge established views of metaphysics and the motions of the universe. Darn good stuff! Three of the other four nominees are quite good, the last is unfortunately another unworthy entry by one of those writers who's enjoyed waaaaay too much of that ballot stuffing I mentioned, but I think your entry is easily the best of the lot. Certainly better than the Hugo winning story, which isn't even my second choice in this group. I wish you more than luck this time around, I wish you an honest and intelligent vote that recognizes your deserving achievement.

Ah, movie stuff...for what it's worth, my fuel on the various fires...

I liked "Pleasantville" for all the reasons Rob, Mark, and Keith mentioned. Especially the latter's comment: "It wasn't making a social commentary, it was making a plea for individuality". That's EXACTLY what I believed the film was about, and I never felt it was trying to do anything else. The black & white TV "reality" of the 1950's was the understandably simple canvas upon which a story of self-discovery was painted in interesting and arresting brush strokes. The film was never intended to be ABOUT the 1950's, but to use them as a neutral backdrop. The message was simple, the image very "Norman Rockwell" for the 1990's, but nonetheless effective. Not a work of genius, but well conceived and managed within the medium.

I did NOT like "Sin City". I thought it was pointlessly violent, thematically unoriginal, lacking in any relevant philosophical or ideological purpose, and so consciously stylistic that the unrelenting imagery overwhelmed the meager plot and character development. It was not any sort of "homage" to film noir for me, but an attempt to update and somehow reinvent it. As such, it was nothing more than another failed adolescent artistic conceit from the "look how much better we do it TODAY" school of vanity. I didn't walk out of the movie screaming to have my money refunded, I did appreciate the interesting and challenging cinematic vision, but I felt it was otherwise a wasted effort.

On the other hand, here are a couple of current movie recommendations. For an utterly charming and emotionally rewarding tearjerker, go see "Dear Frankie". Critics may argue that it's manipulative film making, and the premise is farfetched, but if you love movies the way I do, you'll immediately buy into the story and inevitably come to love the indomitable sprit of the little boy. My other recommendation is for "Bride and Prejudice", the entertaining remake of Jane Austen's "Pride and Prejudice" set in modern day India and directed by the woman who gave us "Bend it Like Beckham". I had no idea until about five minutes into the film that it's a musical! And it works!! The music and dancing are strategically scattered throughout the movie, they're a LOT of fun with clever lyrics, catchy melodies, and vast sweeps of breathtaking color, and never get in the way of the story. Best of all, the female lead is played by the astonishing Aishwarya Rai, a woman so impossibly beautiful she MUST be a joke from God!

Have fun!

Rick K:

I don't think that was v ry fair. Try b ing mor consid rat . Actually, I don't think your copyright is l gitimat ; if you can't copyright simpl phras s, you c rtainly can't copyright l tt rs. Mayb you m ant trad mark?

-Aaron

A question for Harlan; some information for all
Harlan,

Several years ago, I read an issue of your "Harlan Ellison's Dream Corridor" comicbook in which, in your on panel introduction to one story, you addressed the issue of your dislike with the label "science fiction writer." You pointed out that you had written much that didn't fall under that category, and offered the story which followed as one such example. If I recall correctly, in a postscript to the story, you reinforced the point that "science fiction writer" was too narrow a definition by giving a brief list of some of the literary forms/genres in which you'd worked.

Ever since I read that, I've always wondered. Is/are there any literary form(s) or genre(s) in which you have _not_ written and been published, but would like to? If so, what is it/are they?

For any and all: For those of you who are not aware, if you put carbon paper in the typewriter facing the wrong way, the carbon prints your characters backwards (i.e. reverse facing) on the reverse side of your original sheet, rather than forward-facing on the second sheet below the carbon paper. I made this discovery a few years ago, when writing a letter.

Now, if you make a photocopy of the reverse side of your sheet with the printing on both sides, you have a document with reverse-facing type, without the convenient forward-facing version on the other side of the paper.

And how could one make use of this information, you ask? Well, imagine the look of surprise on a friend's face when he or she receives a type-written letter they have to hold up to a mirror to read. I've written two such letters myself, one to my 10-year-old cousin (accompanying her birthday present); the other to a friend who'll probably receive it on Monday or Tuesday. I'll be interested in their feedback.

Another possible use for this info about the carbon paper would be to work it into a story somehow. It could be anything from a major plot point to a casual mention by a character, which serves to establish that he or she is familiar with some "neat tricks" of older technology.

If this little tidbit of information proves useful to anyone for personal fun and/or in crafting a story, I'm glad to have been of service. Good luck to you.

But just so you all know, I copyrighted the letter "e" when you weren't looking. But that's a minor point. Shouldn't cause any difficulties in writing your stories.

Rick

P.S. Also for those who don't know. There were no "1975" quarters or 50 cent pieces. The "Bicentennial" version of those coins were minted in _both_ 1975 and 1976.

Shafted With Harlan
At airport internet kiosk, right now; details on WHC to follow, but the forty minutes trapped inside a broiling stuck elevator with nine people including an increasingly livid Harlan were downright special. Details to follow...ATC

Union-Tribune follow-up piece
Here...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20050410/news_lz1v10cover.html

...is Arthur Salm's follow-up to his 3/20/05 profile of Harlan, published today (Sunday) in the San Diego Union-Tribune BOOKS section, wherein he takes up the pub/publishers' window error and other fine points brought up by Harlan after publication of the original piece.

--Jeff R.

Gene Hazelton, R.I.P.
I haven't seen this posted here previously; so, here goes: Mark Evanier posted yesterday on his weblog that Wesley "Gene" Hazelton Sr. died Wednesday, at 85 years of age. Mr. Hazelton had been an animator who's career spanned Disney Studios to Warner Brothers to Hanna-Barbara. He's credited with key work on FANTASIA, segments of PINNOCHIO, COAL BLACK AND DE SEBBEN DWARFS and with designing Pebbles, Bamm-Bamm and others. Services are next Tuesday in San Diego.

Harlan (again) is the biggest influence
The Dirty Dozen Starring Larry Young

The creator of Astronauts in Trouble stares down the dozen.

Check out question #10. Who -- or what -- would you say has had the biggest influence on your career?

http://comics.ign.com/articles/602/602719p1.html

WHC and Pleasantville
Keith Cramer here, direct from the WHC in NYC. Met Clifford Meth on my first night here, and, unbelievably, it's just gotten better since then.

What's making it so good is that it's a small con...there aren't 400 people here. Harlan has had some great moments so far, and I'm going to wrap this post quick because he's got one coming up at 5pm that I don't want to miss.

More on WHC later.

As for Pleasantville. Not a world-stopping moving. But a good one. I don't buy the whole comparison to the 50s or the comparison to sitcoms, or anything else about that stuff. It was a cute movie about taking control of your own life and living it how you see fit. Breaking your own socio-economic/cultural/racial whatever, script, as it were, that's keeping you from living the life you want to live.

At least, that's how I see it. It wasn't criticizing, it was uplifting. It wasn't making a social commentary, it was making a plea for individuality.

-Keith

I'm with rob on this one: _Pleasantville_ was a damn fine picture. Knott's performance is wonderful. And, if anything, the film is trying to synthesize the reafirming surety of 50s television with the more open and permissive television of the 90s. It also offers a fairly decent meditation on idealism: would you really want to live in a perfect world? _Anyone's_ version of a perfect world?

Mark

I think you’re oughtta yer fuckin’ minds!

In spite of its obvious Twilight Zone sources, PLEASANTVILLE was a helluva film.

It used one of the most inventive metaphors anyone in film ever came up with - the sanguine, cotton candy fluff of 1950’s sitcom (and having recently read about how women were supposed to define themselves in the early 50’s - abject extensions of their husbands - to the extent of brainwashing, I appreciate the film’s metaphor even more) to explore the shock waves of repression and the ever-lingering Conservative clench, i.e., the panic typical among reactionaries when they believe their "way of life" is threatened. It also peeled back many of the Freudian elements that distinguish the unconscious mental processes from the conscious ones that are familiar to us, translated in visual terms brilliantly. There wasn't a scene that wasn't fun. From the beautiful moment in the diner, when Tobey Maguire describes to the inquisitive teens "what’s outside Pleasantville" (if only ALL of us would ask that question!!!) to the hilarious scene when the High School basketball coach urges the players to back away from the ball when it misses the basket, to the movie's stream-of-consciousness sensibility, the film talked to ME all the way through. It was amusing as hell and absolutely moving.

The film is as relevant now as it was in 1998. Maybe even more so.

You guys are totally unbelievable sometimes.

I'm sorry to post twice, but I have to report on something. After I wrote about _Pleasantville_ below, I went searching for Orson Scott Card's review. I want to make this clear: I wrote the preceding _before_ reading Card's review, where