Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion
RITA, not "Mitzi."
Mitzi???
Where the hell did THAT come from.
I meant Rita.
Where the hell did SHE come from?
Wearily, Harlan
THE TAPE
Josh Olson is my friend. Josh Olson taped "The Sopranos" first segment for this final season. Josh Olson is coming over tomorrow to add his first draft pages of the "The Discarded" teleplay to mine. Josh read my worried query. Josh offered to loan me his tape. I have accepted. My ethical conclusion was this: nowhichway do I need or want HBO...if I wanted to read something which I wouldn't buy anywhichway, but a friend had a copy, such as say that James Frey baloneystick, and I asked my friend if I could borrow it for a day or so, to judge its merits on my own, that would be okay. The book was bought and paid for, and James Gandolfini's salary, as well as that of the janitor at the HBO offices, would be properly paid.
Res ipsa loquitor. Mitzi, who posted somewhere earlier today, does a whited sepulchre rigadoon that is utterly bogus. "Gambling? There's gambling here at Rick's!?! I am shocked! SHOCK-ED!" Lady, let me point out that everywhere else on this fuckin' internet, people steal regularly, sell crap they don't have, cheat, shout dementedly under phony names till the perfectly decent word "rant" no longer means what it meant...and YOU are upset that the question of miniscule fine points of properly ethical behavior are DISCUSSED here!!!???!!!
Geddouddamy face, doofus. The people here are so much more tuned in to behaving well than the monkeymass running amuck brainless and barefoot on the Infobahn, you gotta lodda nerve comin' on like a banjo player who had a big breakfast.
Or that bore Annie Proulx.
Thanking everyone BUT Mitzi for their best thoughts on this teensy life-glitch, I remain,
Yr. pal, Harlan
P.S. See you tomorrow, Josh.
"I find it funny how people believe the biased information about Spielberg, instead of actually, honestly looking at the films, without one iota of bias on your part."
I find it even funnier that you, of all people, should leap to the defense of the King of the world's spoiled media brats. Personally I have no animus for Mr. Spielberg himself--he seems a nice enough fellow--but if you wanted a picture of middle class complacency not-quite-stirred-to-action and Stephen King was dead, you couldn't do much better.
And I have looked at certain of the films as a child, at which point I was pretty unbiased. The adult, viewing them later, finds them trivial. Sorry.
PIRACY on the INTERENET HIGH SEAS
ELLISON (me lad): I'm soundly on the side o' those hearty souls what say that _loanin'_ a tape (or parrot) to a mate, as long as said mate gives it back after partakin', is NOT piracy. Simply because yer mate isn't lookin' to make a shilling (or doubloon) offa yer when he loans the tape out. And even if he loans it to _another_ friend after that -- or invites a group of friends to watch the tape o' that show -- he STILL won't be doin' it in order to get his hands on some booty (unless, of course, said tape is a porno and the friends he invited over are some soft-skinned lasses...or, uh, laddies).
If a tape was made in order to make a dozen (or more) OTHER tapes -- which your mate planned to sell -- _then_ we'd be talkin, (arrrrgh!) piracy. So don't go shiverin' any timbers over this. Stop yer frettin and get yerself to bed, laddie. Tomorrow's another day and there are jibs to be hoisted and matey's to avast.
Yours in pursuite of treasure n'truth,
Cap'n Bly
>To be able to choose our small infractions is a luxury an ethical person is allowed to enjoy.<
Wow. You know, whether or not anyone borrows a Sopranos tape is irrelevant to me, but this statement is pretty unbelievable. Talk about some animals being more equal than others.
A lot of keystrokes have gone down on this board slamming these very kinds of choices made by people who no doubt think of themselves as ethical as Mike Jacka apparently considers himself...when those choices were costing Harlan Ellison money. James Gandolfini's salary, or that of an HBO night janitor, evidently isn't as large a concern here, so hell, have at it.
I knew that we'd see a bit of double-talk on this one, but this is pretty astounding.
Piracy or Sharing?
I think piracy is determined by the intent one has for the object. Taping a show to replay later for your personal pleasure is acceptable. And if I recall correctly, congress has backed up that point when the RIAA has tried to pass a special "blank tape tax" for those who make homegrown recordings and Congress has voted such legislation down.
Sharing changes to piracy when the one copy turns to 200, the single person becomes a mailing list and you are now encroaching on the economics of the creators/copyright holders, which is why you have that FBI WARNING at the start of every DVD, telling you what is nice and what is naughty.
Borrowing a book is acceptable, scanning it and posting it online, as Harlan has gone to legnths to establish is NOT acceptable and violates copyright and the current internet legislation, and a less then ethical action.
Sharing a guilty pleasure is not a case of being guilty of a violation of ethics. Your intent is appropriate to the situation: to borrow a tape, be entertained and then return it, with clean hands and a clear conscience.
To ethic or not to ethic
Harlan,
One or two birthdays ago you described going to the movies, then sneaking into a second one at the same theater. Someone on this board took the opportunity to quickly chide you for the breach of ethics. You or someone else here responded to the effect that the individual could go screw themselves – an appropriate response.
Watching a show someone else has taped from pay television (why the “Lost” analogy doesn’t work) is unethical. Sneaking between movies and not paying is unethical. Speeding is unethical. (I am making an assumption here, based on descriptions of your driving that you do, indeed speed. If such assumption is incorrect, then my heartfelt apologies. I am quite the speeder, so I am unethical.) “Borrowing” a pen from work is unethical. (That was for those of us working in offices.) Hell, using the word “hell”, for some, is unethical. No matter how ethical we may want to act, we inadvertently or vertently allow ourselves such infractions.
I guess my reply to anyone who would question your use of the tape is – well, not to put to fine a point on it – fuck ‘em. To be able to choose our small infractions is a luxury an ethical person is allowed to enjoy. Don’t buy off on anyone’s contention that you shouldn’t do something – this really falls under the non-sinner casting a stone and the mote in the eye. And don’t buy off on the “this is the first step down the slippery slope” either. We are all adults here. True, some actions are just the first step in eventually justifying greater crimes. But I am hard-pressed to believe that the watching of borrowed tape either starts you on the road to bootlegging crime or (and maybe this is the real point) invalidates anything you have said about the misuse of creative materials.
Borrow the tape, watch the show, and do it with a clear conscious.
Mike
I have never given much thought to whether or not I am bootlegging when I record a show and share it with a friend. I guess my question is, if I recorded BAND OF BROTHERS, took it to work and we all sat in the breakroom watching it, is it stealing? Or are we just killing time between assignments. If that is stealing, then am I stealing when I buy a movie and then ten of us at work sit around and watch it? I'm pretty sure when I did both of those things, I had every right to do so as the purchaser. I wasn't reselling either item for a profit. I didn't charge admission or sell concessions. I was sharing with friends something I had found enjoyable. When my father moved to Florida, I recorded all of the St. Louis Rams games the year they won the Super Bowl and mailed them to him every week. I am fairly sure that didn't count as "illegal distribution."
>even ask them to make a tape for you<
Not so sure about THAT, Bud. If you start making tapes of copyrighted material and give them to your friends, that sounds a lot like bootlegging to me. How is this different from offering copies of stories on the Internet?
The Sopranos is funded by HBO, who gets their money through cable subscriptions. For those of us who don't pay for HBO, we are also not paying for the Sopranos. If you give a tape of the show to one person, that seems cool...how about giving tapes to a hundred friends? Or just putting them on the Internet...
First, one of the funniest things John Leguizamo will ever say:
"¡°I¡¯ve heard about you Mexicans buying up all the Cabbage Patch dolls for their birth certificates."
--------------
I find it funny how people believe the biased information about Spielberg, instead of actually, honestly looking at the films, without one iota of bias on your part. But, in a world where we believe the lies, what else can we hope for.
First, this new guy, Jim Lewis:
"He forces the action and emotion where he wants it to be and not where the characters and the situation demand it to be."
What the hell does that mean, and can you prove it? Sure, you see that, but are you looking at this through unbiased eyes?
How do you FORCE action? Either action moves forward, or it lies around, cutting welfare checks. Most movie action is forced, since you have to have a script to move any action along. This guy is a storyboarding fool, he would never force anything. When a man punches another man, sure that is forced, but it makes a complete sense to my mind.
Spielberg rarely tacks on simplistic things, and when he does, I will also bash him on it. Like, when he went way too crazy with the ending of Indiana Jones And The Temple Of Doom; even though I do love the fun of it all.
How does he force emotion? Either you are emotional or not. He does have an ethical sense, as do many directors. Would you prefer he hate humanity, in the way that Tarantino or some exploitation director does? You look at films like The Wizard Of Oz, sure, they have a moral center and a heart, but it doesn't take anything away from the art. Having a soul doesn't make you bad. Not just black-hearted assholes make good film makers. Let's not forget, the blackest of the heartless film critics, John Simon, loved Schindler's List.
"I'm in school right now (a 34-year-old just getting his BA in English...weep for me) and am taking an Intro to Film (which gives me the right to pontificate, don't ya know!). There is a brief quote by Spielberg in my text where he says:"
""I love the idea of not being an independent filmmaker. I've liked working within the system""
What does a film student know about film making? Sure, you have your Spike Lee's, but look how long it took that mook to make a decent film.
Yea, his commercialism troubles me, as well. He is also responsible, as is Steven King, for making the art world a bean counters art. It does not take away from their art.
Steven did make up for it with the fine, Munich. All the right wing pigs who condemn this film, have lied about how the film humanizes terrorists. What are terrorists anyway, but disgruntled humans? These are not monsters, even terrorist have mommies. The left has been making this obvious point, ever since 9/11
We should defend a man who gets attacked unfairly, like he did. The dark hoards could come after us next. Actually, that is next on their ledgers.
"I don't want him to be something he is not. I certainly don't want him to be what I want him to be. I just think he is someone who is immensely talented and is frittering this talent away"
How is he frittering away? The fucking guy has two Best Picture Oscars!! The Shoah foundation alone, should make you salute him. Without his pull, would he have the ability to do this? He should get a Nobel Prize for Schindler's List, alone. Hell, the 30's and 40's were full of commercial movies, but also well made. See, you can do both. And, let's tell the truth here, a lot of hallowed independant films are just plain boring, or depressing, or both, or artistically muddled, to say the least. Sometimes you want an escape from the humdrum life. Spielberg is our escape valve. I salute him.
And, frankly, there need to be more Jews in Hollywood. We need to work on that travesty of justice.
Weighing in on ethics
HARLAN:
You know how I feel about copyright violators, no matter what their justifications. I'm on the SFWA E-Piracy Committee, and have blown the whistle on any number of on-line pirates, including the guy who was uploading _Love Ain't Nothing But Sex Mispelled_ (amongst many others) to the e-book newsgroups. I don't like people who copy software they haven't bought, and despite the immense temptations, I haven't given in myself, even when it meant having to shell out a couple hundred buckeroos. Which I don't got, believe me.
So I claim some gravitas when I tell you publicly that if you borrow someone's tape of the Sopranos, or even ask them to make a tape for you, you're not breaking the law and you're not slipping ethically. If you want to soothe any inner wailings or uncertainty, supply the tape, but otherwise you're fine.
>The only sane way to view (the fairly entertaining, if mistitled) THE BEST OF YOUTH is in two to four sittings. It was supposed to be a multipart tv production anyway.
I believe it was shown on Italian TV (and in Italian theaters) in two three-hour installments. We watched five hours straight and only put off the last hour because my cold medicine was kicking in and I had to go to sleep. A wonderful film, not to be missed, however you choose to watch it.
Harlan, you may be acting just a hair _too_ ethically here.
Borrowing a taped copy of a show is well within Fair Use-- it's not much different from borrowing a book, or a record, or even a boxed set of DVDs. Just don't make copies for yourself, or bring money into the transaction. Borrow it, watch it, and when you're done, either return it or destroy it.
Granted, HBO would love to charge its subscribers extra if they have guests over, or loan out a tape or two. Thankfully, we don't live in a world with that degree of control over what we watch or read or listen to.
those horns you are on
I recommend one of the following:
1) go to a friends house and watch with them. you bring the popcorn, of course.
2) have a friend who made an "archival" tape send it to you so you can check the quality of the tape and review it for accuracy.
3) go to a bar that regularly has a TV tuned into HBO. might be difficult during march madness, but that never stopped you before.
Otherwise, just suck it up and resign yourself to the fact that you will have to pay the subscription fee to Adelphia or COMCAST or Dish Network or whoever. I'm sure they will welcome you back with open arms and an iron-clad contract for a minimum of 24 months.
Stephen
Harlan,
Have you checked into the satellite feed options? Dish Network and others... Just a thought.
Delimma Schalimma
Harlan,
No no no. You ain't paying for HBO, you ain't watching the fuggin Sopranos. No delimma.
Now, if you mailed David Chase your monthly HBO subscription check, it would be somewhat more defensible an feasible vis a vis the ethical continuum, dan it is now.
Arrrrrr, Matey?
-K317H
Benito Cereno.
What a devilishly clever novella by Herman Melville. I've never been more alarmed when I realized that I had completely glossed over multiple passages associating the blacks on board Captain Benito's ship to animals. I didn't pick up on the racism of those scenes until long after I put down the book to watch a FARSCAPE rerun. It wasn't the moments themselves that unnerved me, but rather the fact that I browsed through them without a second thought. (I'm thinking of one sight in particular, where Delano compares a black woman and her child to a wide variety of creatures who suckle at their mother's nipples.)
Part of my deception might have lied in the protagonist Captain Delano, through whose eyes we witness the story. This S.O.B. has so THOROUGHLY accepted the "natural" order of whites over blacks, the possibility that the slaves aboard Benito's vessel had led a successful mutiny is beyond his imagination. He's a really nice, benign guy, too. He could charm Cujo. Delano describes the scenes of slavery with such benevolence, his ignorance and stupidity actually managed to transmit from the letters on the page and infect my brain.
The screenwriters of CRASH should have taken a peek at this story before filming began. It would have taught them a few interesting pointers about how diverse racism can really be.
Ethical Dilemma
Harlan - No ethical dilemma posed, IMHO.
You're asking to borrow a personal, not-for-profit copy of a program. No more, no less.
It's no more an ethical issue than if you asked to borrow a copy of last week's LOST ep, or borrowing my dvd copy of SHREK. If you were to keep it and copy it for either sale or mass produce *THEN* you've got an issue.
Again, my humble opinion. (And, as you know, I've taken a hard line or two on this subject my own self.)
Steve B
(And I shall do the proper penance for second-posting.)
(And, no, I don't get HBO but I may know someone in Silverlake who tapes the show.)
That's a dilema. Why not score an invite to someone's house with HBO?
TO THE MESHPUCHAH:
A SMALL ETHICAL CONUNDRUM:
For good and assorted reasons, Susan and I ceased allowing the great and good Adelphia Cable monopoly to continue sucking our video neck, and thus...we no longer get HBO. Which hasn't been a strain on our valiant efforts to stay au courant re Everything
PopCultural since CARNIVALE and DEADWOOD, but now comes the new and final season of THE SOPRANOS, a show I've watched (as a REALLY "guilty" pleasure) since episode one.
I would love to hitch a coat-tail ride off anyone hereabouts who may have taped it for his/her personal use--to keep up to date week by week, rather than to wait a year for the boxed DVD set--which I wouldn't buy anyhow, not having bought any of the preceding boxed seasons--but I am deadagainst Piracy, as you all know, and I scratch my head with conflictivity as to whether its okay, ethically, to ask someone to loan me his/her tape of the first (and maybe upcoming Sunday 2nd) episode, just for viewing...which I would mail back posthaste within a day or two.
I am wide open to suggestions here.
Do the Right Thing, Ellison; do the Right Thing.
Yr. pal, Harlan
There will always be movies based on books. No reason for not to be. Original screenplays are great, and original screenplays can suck wind. Adaptations of popular and unpopular books and short stories and comics can blow the same way. Good, bad, disappointing, surprisingly effective.
So, we all know when we hate a movie because it did not properly adapt a beloved book: but can you take the positive route of the debate and name some movies that met the criteria of a good adaptation, or even surpassed the written tale?
I could come up with tons, but since I'm at work I am unable to parse out a proper amount of grey cells while multi-tasking, so I will toss out some obvious ones (to me, of course):
When I read Silence of the Lambs I said to my beloved, "This will make a perfect movie if done right, but as a book it is not that good." I love the movie, and my wife reminds me of that statement all along.
The Godfather surpasses the novel in every way. I thank the novel for existing, though, so that The Godfather and The Godfather II could bless this movie-lovers eyes each year.
Blade Runner took a different approach to adapting Dick's Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep. Love the movie. Love the book. They are different, but the point is there.
Kubrick's The Shining is superb. King's The Shining is superb. The miniseries The Shining that was made so that King could stop complaining about how Jack Nicholson did not fit his idea of Jack Torrence was not superb.
E.T. the movie surpasses the iffy Kotzwinkle novel.
Jaws the movie beats Jaws the novel by a hair. Do we thank Scheider, Shaw and Dreyfuss for wonderful representations of written characters? Do we thank Spielberg for directing them to be wonderful? Do we thank Benchley for creating quite the summer phenomenom back in the hey day of the 70's?
Damn, there is so many more I can name. I haven't even gone back in time to the old black-n-whites.
On the other hand, yes, there is a lot of poorly conceived novel adaptations because the underlying themes are often lost on a 2 hour flickering screen. The majority of Stephen King movies are shit because the movie is presented as plot only, whereas King is such a good writer that he can take some nifty keen plotted hoo-haw story and fill it with juicy good characters and themes that need skill to present properly in a script. The Green Mile did it right, as did Stand By Me. There's a couple more....but mostly, the rule of thumb is that a movie adaptation of King's work is all plot and no quality.
PS, his latest novel CELL is scrumpdillyicous! Loved it.
-TODD
Since this is primarily a movie fan board, it's not a surprise that Spielberg is a big debate point. But once again, it seems there's always disappointment when a "movie version" of some beloved work of fiction doesn't meet one's expectations.
What do you expect? Unless the source was clearly written to be translated to the screen, like most genre fiction now as writers desperately trove for those scumbag producers to option their novels, you are always going to be left disappointed. Books contain whole worlds, for days, maybe weeks of your lives. Movies are two hours of images and theater.
Films are art lite. They are made by huge crowds of people and corporations. They are not scribbled, sketched or scored by some fevered brain in a studio apartment. Yes, there is a small segment of serious films that one could call artistic, that stand with symphonies, novels, and paintings. But the vast majority are circus acts, put on by an industry that is two clicks removed from the Coliseum.
All this noxious keening over V for Vendetta...who cares, it's yet another comic book movie. Read the original, give cranky Mr. Moore his royalties, and wait for Portman's career to tank enough so she starts posing.
Ummmm....
Okay. Just so I get this straight (based on comments read right here in the Pavilion in the last three days):
WAR OF THE WORLDS is a lousy film because it wasn't the book.
DUEL wasn't as good as the book.
V FOR VENDETTA isn't the comic, so Alan Moore and so far a few fans are upset.
Hollywood is turning out entirely too many movies based upon books and not original screenplays.
SCHINDLER'S LIST was a game of connect the dots, and evidently not as good as the book.
Movies are bad because they *gasp* try to manipulate your emotions in order to make you feel something while in the theater. Little children should never be allowed to emote, especially if it reeks of sentimentalizing a film that doesn't show enough military violence.
Oh. And the man who gave us CLOSE ENCOUNTERS OF THE THIRD KIND, ET, JAWS, the INDIANA JONES movies, JURASSIC PARK, SCHINDLER'S LIST, MUNICH, SAVING PRIVATE RYAN, AI, MINORITY REPORT, ALWAYS, EMPIRE OF THE SUN, and produced SHREK, MEMOIRS OF A GEISHA, TAKEN, BAND OF BROTHERS, INTO THE WEST, AMISTAD, MEN IN BLACK, TWISTER, ANIMANIACS, and WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT sucks at his job.
To paraphrase the opening number from 'Avenue Q', I guess "It sucks to be him".
Have I about got it right???
I know you guys want to beat the discussion of Spielberg and his films into the ground, but I thought I'd try to steer the conversation to another point that hasn't been debated to smithereens yet.
Annie Proulx is apparently upset that CRASH won best picture when, according to her, BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN was sooooo much better. Sounds like sour grapes, and a pissy attitude to me. Frankly, neither one deserved Best Picture, but, hey, SHAKESPEARE IN LOVE won, too, so whattya gonna do?
http://books.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1727309,00.html
What do you guys think? Whiner, or valid remarks?
DVG says, "Thus Duel becomes a strange journey into anthromorphism vis-a-vis Christine."
True, but wasn't that apparent in the Richard Matheson story?
Spielberg is a very talented filmmaker, there can be no doubt about it. However, it's just that I personally am not much interested in the majority of his work. Much of it has the feeling of 'cheating.' He forces the action and emotion where he wants it to be and not where the characters and the situation demand it to be.
I'm in school right now (a 34-year-old just getting his BA in English...weep for me) and am taking an Intro to Film (which gives me the right to pontificate, don't ya know!). There is a brief quote by Spielberg in my text where he says:
"I love the idea of not being an independent filmmaker. I've liked working within the system."
I think this is where the trouble lays: Spielberg not only works within the system, but he IS the system as well in A LOT of ways. Is he ever not in control on the set? Is he ever forced to grab a shot on the fly? Is his coffee ever cold? I think a little less control on his part would translate very well onto the screen. It is nice that he is so powerful and able to get any actor he wants and shoot anywhere and whatever he wants...but I think this power leeches some of the emotion out of his productions.
I don't want him to be something he is not. I certainly don't want him to be what I want him to be. I just think he is someone who is immensely talented and is frittering this talent away.
Though I don't think it's one of his best films, I fail to see why Spielberg's WAR OF THE WORLDS should be derided as "pure shieze, merde, pap, guanno, sentimentalist tripe", simply because it is about a father's relationship with his children (a theme Spielberg has explored many times in the past). Why should 'man losing his place on the evolutionary ladder' (or, as Steve Evil has it, "man losing his place in the evolutionary ladder") be considered an inherently more important subject for a filmmaker to tackle? It is clearly true that "Martians just kind of loom in the background"...but they do so for the very good reason that Spielberg is more interested in human beings than he is in Martians. For Spielberg, the alien invasion exists purely to provide an extreme situation that will force Tom Cruise's character to reevaluate his life. This may have little to do with Wells' novel, but it is nonetheless a coherent piece of narrative/thematic construction. I would hope that we are all mature enough to judge a film in terms of what it is trying to achieve, rather than in terms of how faithful it has remained to its source material.
Sentiment vs. Authentic Emotion
Include me with Steve Evil and DVG in the anti-Speilberg WOW camp. Todd asked, "If done right, what the hell is wrong with a little sentimentalism?"
Someone-or-other said that "sentiment is unearned emotion." The example given was of a German officer who spent his day murdering children and then wept at the beauty of his daughter's violin recital.
I guess we're talking about emotional authenticity. Speilberg's not the only sinner. Compare Brian Cox's genuinely scary performance as Hannibal Lecter in "Manhunter" with the slurping noises made by Anthony Hopkins in "Silence of the Lambs". Or the entire cast of "Independence Day", so saucy in the face of death and destruction. Maybe Speilberg just needs a schmalz editor, somebody to let him know when lines like "they're veggie-saurs" will only have the audience rooting for the raptors. This imitation of emotion has the stink of the corporation on it.
I just finished reading Alan Moore's "Top Ten" series, and by contrast, the tears and the laughter were earned by even the most "absurd" characters. Please note that this is being said by a sap who weeps at injured kittens, beautiful women in lingerie, and Kurt Russell telling the bad guys that "Hell's coming with me!" Celtic tear ducts, pity me.
DOUGIE: Thanks for the pointer. You are a scholar, sir. Just going to have to gently break the news to the grubs that I am contemplating the frittering away of their inheritance on comic books. As for Alan Moore merchandise, I'm sure it'll happen. I'm just pleased that I have the original graphic novel, as it was before they plastered "NOW A MAJOR MOTION PICTURE" or whatever on the cover.
ALL: Dunno if it is considered acceptable listening t'other side of t'pond, but for those of you to whom BritCom is basically FAWLTY TOWERS and THE OFFICE, or if you suspect the man who wrote THE DEATHBIRD and THE MAN WHO ROWED CHRISTOPHER COLUMBUS ASHORE may just have been onto something, you could do worse than wrap your ears round half an hour of OLD HARRY'S GAME - a BBC radio comedy set in Hell. You'll find yourselves having nothing but sympathy for Andy Hamilton's Satan, a loveable curmudgeon, who so poetically describes the cast of FRIENDS as SIX CHARACTERS IN SEARCH OF A SMACK IN THE MOUTH.
Spielberg debate, my input: I agree with you all, including those who haven't piped up yet.
To Steve Evil, the only one here with ANY perception.
What a bunch o'sagging scrotums!
I didn't want to get into it, but it's gotta be said, if only for balance.
War of the Worlds sucked. There I said it. Pure shieze, merde, pap, guanno, sentimentalist tripe.
The book was about man losing his place in the evolutionary ladder and forced to re-evaluate himself. It was also an incredibly well thought out speculation about what extraterrestrial life might be.
This lousy re-make was about Tom Cruise and his brats. Martians just kind of loom in the background. (We don't even get to see a decent military confrontation, which Wells described in great detail.)
No it was about family and community and how we if we stick together we can pull Tom Cruise out from the belly of the beast, literally. And if a father is dedicated enough, god will guide his grenade hand, and then spare his daughter.
When the Martians finally succumb to germs, it feels like nothing so much as a bad dream, and we can all go back to producing and consuming. The Martians even had the decency to leave most of our cities more or less intact.
You know, there was another "War of the Worlds" film released by Full Moon Entertainment. An incredibly low budget effort that went directly to video.
It was better. It captured the dispare and the hoplessness of the novel. Even with a budget slightly smaller than your average chocolate bar commercial, it showed human civilization and all its beloved institutions o'erthrown, demolished, destroyed, flattened, wiped clean off the map, and the poor faceless, unknown actors seemed genuinely perturbed by the process. They actually got across a little of that Mental, spiritual agony which such an occurence might entail. So when the man finally gets reunited with his wife (just like in the book), I actually felt happy for him.
The issue is not the ending, it is the tone which preceeded it. Spielberg's version was sanitized to a nauseating degree, bereft of any menace or foreboding or cautionary note ("Don't get smug mankind") or even decent property damage. Instead we are treated to a pouty Dakota Flemming. She makes me wish the Martians had won.
If I get one more whiny child actor reach for my heart strings (or my purse strings), I will bite their fingers off.
-Steve E.
P.S. The tirade is meant for WotW, and not Spielberg in general. Loved those Indiana Jones films.
To clarify--I don't hate Spielberg because his work is childish--heck, the two movies he was associated with that I actually like, "The Goonies" and "Raiders of the Lost Ark" are about as childish as things get.
I hate him (or rather, his work) because I find it morally obtuse. Spielberg wades into ultimate evil and always chickens out at the last minute. Thus Duel becomes a strange journey into anthromorphism vis-a-vis Christine; Schindler's List is the Holocaust as a game of connect-the-dots; The Color Purple omits the messiness of the main character's lesbian interest and the horrendous violence of her marriage (certainly the most agressively confrontational thing in the book) in favor of comic bawdiness on both points. AI, Minority Report and even War of the Worlds all contained brilliant moments of penetrating insight that were followed by rapid back-pedalling. Where Kubrick could show the vileness of life, and Kurosawa could show that vileness and transcend it, showing us joy as well, Speilberg seems simply unable to limn the subject matter that he is evidently obsessed with. Thus the Goonies and Raiders are the most successful of his (executive produced, natch) films because evil is seen FROM THE START as a form of clowning and or/total stupidity. There is something to be said for this outlook (particularly in films for children). But it only goes so far each way.
Spielberg? I love almost everything he's done, from DUEL to SAVING PRIVATE RYAN to WAR OF THE WORLDS & MUNICH. All are absolutely stunning.
As for THE SOPRANOS, I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's the best thing HBO has ever put out. Period.
Jan: You are correct. I suspect that are more than a few that are rolling their eyes. I do it all the time.
Almost every major film maker of note--Scorcese, Kubrick, Tarantino, etc, love and rave about Spielberg and his worth as a film maker. He has his own vision and his use of humane stories just keeps him human. Cynics make bad art, usually.
----------------
Big Night, there is a good Italian film. Good, I found one.
I'd like to point out to Todd that if some people put down someone on this board and no one disagrees, I think it often just means we're rolling our eyes and let them have their say. Spielberg makes things come alive on screen and is always pushing the envelope in terms of unobtrusive audiovisual storytelling techniques. He'll be doing another Indiana Jones movie soon, and who's not looking forward to that. I've been waiting since 1989.
The only sane way to view (the fairly entertaining, if mistitled) THE BEST OF YOUTH is in two to four sittings. It was supposed to be a multipart tv production anyway.
While we're on about Italians on film, let me urge everyone to rent The Best of Youth. And be sure to give yourself an unbroken stretch of six hours for watching it. You won't be bored for a second.
Spielberg Continued
I haven't bothered to write a defense of that length, but please put me in the rabidly pro-Spielberg camp. Especially for MUNICH, SCHINDLER'S LIST, JAWS, and CATCH ME IF YOU CAN. I see the flaws in his style, but I confess that only film of his that actually repelled me was HOOK. (I even love sections of 1941.)
Oh, by the way, I "bawled like a baby". I don't think babies do much balling. Many science fiction and comic book fans don't do much balling either, but that's another matter.
-TODD
The Spielberg grousing on this board just amazes me. Actually, I take that back….I’m not surprised, because many on this board just love rip ‘n rend anything that is ‘popular’ because, hell, ‘popular’ can’t ever be good can it? Sure, he is often prone to sentimentalism…..but is that always so wrong? Are we not human? Do we not have emotions? If done right, what the hell is wrong with a little sentimentalism? If I didn’t ball like a baby in Field Of Dreams, I wouldn’t watch it over and over every year.
For those who pigeonhole the ending of his War Of The Worlds remake as typical Spielberg happy ending….go read H.G.’s original book. Zounds, the protagonist is reunited with his wife. Alive! Happy! The aliens are defeated by avian flu and the lovers reunite. So, why does Spielberg’s happy ending deserve disgust?
Spielberg has an amazing body of motion picture work, but you guys and gals just want to bitch and moan because it’s too mainstream or sentimental or childish (hey, kids are allowed to watch movies too, aren’t they). Of course, you will support your distaste with something more than that, and using Harlan’s opinion on many Spielberg films as your back-up since this is his site and he is not a fan of Spielberg’s either. So, I suppose that as the brave little Conservative and the brave little Yankee fan of the site, I must speak up and be the brave little Spielberg fan.
By my count, Spielberg has directed about 25 films. They can be broken into the Summer Blockbuster Spielberg, the Serious Spielberg and the Hard To Peg Spielberg. You can rip and rend any of these films if you choose to, but then again, you can rip and rend any film ever produced if you choose to. Many of you choose to hate the man’s work…..I choose to anticipate every film, because on average, his hits far outweigh his misses and his body of work is great.
As far as the Summer Blockbuster Spielberg is concerned: what is wrong with a good, action, special effect drenched blockbuster if done well? There is fun cinema, and there is serious cinema, and I sure as hell don’t want either to go away. So, we can watch crap like Armageddon, or we can watch some real rock-em-sock-em well produced junkfood like the three Indiana Jones movies, Jurassic Park, The Lost World (which is a series of action set pieces, not a story, but who cares when you are gripping your seat and hanging over the cliff with our heroes as T-Rex shakes us all about and the glass window splinters and…..), War of the Worlds. This is fun stuff, and it’s fun because it is well made. I find it difficult to place Jaws into this category only because Jaws is not fluff….Jaws is an exquisite movie that I can never get sick of. Never. And Close Encounters is also a terrific movie that contains a helluva lot more than just simple action fluff. E.T. is one of the best kid’s movie enjoyed by adults I have ever seen.
The Serious Spielberg is not schmaltz. He might slip a little of it in, sloppily, as with the pro- and epilogues to Saving Private Ryan, but I’ll be damned if his opening D-Day sequence can ever be duplicated for sheer seat gripping presentation of what a chaotic battle might really feel like. I don’t want to ever know that nightmare! Schindler’s List does well with it’s presentation of the Ralph Fiennes character above and beyond the simplicity of the title character’s story arc. Schindler existed; he did what he did, whether for good reasons or greed, but Spielberg’s addition of the Fiennes character, along with his perfect casting, make this movie a step above what it could have been. And the score……beautiful. If you haven’t seen it yet, Munich is a damn good movie. Thank God he didn’t decide to present an over-philosophical debate on terrorism and the Israel/Palestine conflict. He did it right…..he presented a wonderfully directed revenge flic with subtle (and not so subtle) debate within the covers. And please tell me why The Color Purple is so despised? Is it the “Norman Jewison cannot direct Malcom X so give it to Spike” debate because of Spielberg’s color and religion?
The Hard To Peg Spielberg is the Spielberg that dabbles. Sometimes successfully (Catch Me If You Can is so well done and such a small picture that it is often dismissed offhand) and sometimes not (Hook, Always, The Terminal). I put Minority Report here only because I don’t see this as a Summer Blockbuster, even though Mr. Cruise stars, I see it as his attempt to do some form of strong Science Fiction that goes beyond fluff…..but boy, did he destroy it with that ending. Horrible ending.
I’m not sure where to place A.I…..all I know is that I love it. It’s got the Summer Blockbuster in it. It’s got the Serious in it. It’s got the Hard To Peg dabbling in it….and it’s terrific. And it is not a happy, schmaltzy ending. And if you think so, then that is why you have it out for Spielberg: because you choose to dismiss too easily.
Too many words to defend a director….and not enough meat to that defense. But I just wanted to get at least one pro-Spielberg posting out there. I can think of pages more to say about each of the films of his I love, but I won’t waste it here.
-TODD
Lots of things to respond to today.
Robert Charles Wilson: Time travel is tough to do, just watch any StarTrek episode in the past 20 years and you'll see how easy it is to do badly. His novel "Chronoliths" was a landmark. It was smart, engaging timetravel so good that I completely forgive him for ending Darwinia the way he did. I'll agree with Rick in that his books are inventive and thought provoking but (other than Chronoliths) he desperately needs to work on his endings. Fifty pages from the last I get the feeling that he's lost his train of thought and the story sort of stumbles and crawls it's way to a sort of end like an exhausted marathoner who has to be helped across the finish line.
Contemporary writers worth reading:
Michael Flynn: He's bascially written "The Man Who Sold the Moon" as novel in his book FireStar. It's excellent and beautiful and lets you feel the way you did about Space when men were actually going there. He goes on and gets better.
China Mieville: It's not SF but it's so very good. I would, with only positive conotations, call it Monster Porn (not in the Japanese way). It's a gorgeous menagerie of the grotesque and odd and that's just the main characters.
David Marusek: He can't end a novel yet but Counting Heads was so easy and fun I almost don't care. I'll definitely pick up his next bit of writing where ever I find it.
Jeffrey Ford: Although I haven't attempted his novels, his short fiction is worth the effort of running down. For the nearly perfect "The Empire of Ice Cream" we should all be sending free hookers to his house.
I could go on and on and I will but about the short fiction market.
It's not as good because today's young Korbluth's, Cordwainer Smith's, Knight's are all writing novels. Everyone in my writer's group and all the writer's I know have been told and it's been reinforced time and time again that you can't be a working writer unless you're producing novels. Short fiction is what you do to get a novel and then you stop except for an anthology here and there but only as a way of feeding readers to your novel.
The exception to prove the rule is Ted Chiang, who seems happy to persue non-writing career and produce the occasional short story that's just absolutely brilliant (of his 8 so far, 2 have Nebulas and 1 has a Hugo).
Tom Cruise: Don't mind him at all. That War of the Worlds was unnecessary was not his fault at all. Don't get me wrong, I love the visuals in the movie but what is the point of telling the EXACT same story but just rolling the date forward a litte? Oh, that's right, summer blockbuster dollars. I wanted desperately for them to do something new, to take the basic idea and riff off Orson's original. Spielberg is in a deep and ugly rut. He needs to make a good movie, not based on a book or previous movie (Munich (book and movie), Jurasic park (Book, some forgiveness since it was such great fun), JP 2 (book, no forgiveness), Amistad (book), Minority Report (short story, some forgiveness because it wasn't altogether bad), Hook (everything, I love Robin Williams but this was turkey of a movie), Catch me if you can (book), War of the Worlds (everything). Something, as Neil Gaiman says, "right out of our heads". New, exciting, interesting fictions. I will pay top dollar.
Wholesome Italiano movies
Hey, FRANK-uh, whattsamatter with-uh the BEST Italiano-related movies ever made-uh? I'm-uh talkin' 'bout "The Godfather" anna "The Godfather 2." LOTsa good, wholesome messages in-uh deese movies, paisan. Like-uh: Leave the gun, take the cannoli.
Never travel truu a toll-uh booth without-uh your paisans. Never shoot-uh you brotha until _after_ you momma is-uh passed away (rest her soul). And, last-uh, but notta to be the least, not _too_ much garlic when you make-uh the spaghett!
Ciao,
Vito
Shout-out to Ash in UK / acknowledgement to Alan Coil in Michigan
Ash, I've been trawling for Alan Moore items on ebay [still no luck - and don;t know why, as I'm flat broke.] and I ran across this :
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2000AD-ANNUALS-1979-1990-COMPLETE_W0QQitemZ6613077975QQcategoryZ108880QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
It's in your neck o' the woods - good luck if you decide to go for it ! [ Hoping you're flush ]
==================================================================
Alan - I've got dial-up as well, but methinks my connection must've been good the other night - it only took about 30 mins total to download - interesting and informative video clip. The other one below it - a preview clip of 'The moindscape of Alan Moore' was rather tasty too. ( www.shadowsnake.com )for more info.
Great to see Iain Sinclair with a few comments. Strange thing was, he popped up on an ABC (Australia) documentary on poets & poems the next day. You know what they say - No such thing as coincidence, right?
-- Dougie.
P.S. 'moindscape' above - should be 'mindscape'
- or is it a bit of a "Moorian" slip - me tryin' the Northampton accent ? - DAMc.
State of the Art, and a few more movies...
I will admit that I haven't read huge amounts of new fantasy/science fiction in the last decade -- a few, here and there (Card's "Ender's Shadow", Butler's "Kindred", Niven's "Draco's Tavern" collection, all written by 'old guard' writers).
It's fascinating to me that part of the problem lays in the definition. For years Harlan, Vonnegut and others have denied the moniker (Harlan, I'll hasten to add, because he didn't feel his work qualified, not from any sense of distancing it from an unpleasant definition) to the point where very clear mainstream FSF is being written without the asterisk of *F/SF.
Examples include (no comments as to individual quality) 'The Five People You Meet in Heaven', 'The DaVinci Code', the entirety of the 'Left Behind' series, 'Life of Pi', 'Timequake' and many others. Publishers have discovered an appetite for this sort of work, and are, whenever possible, ignoring what they still perceive to be a ghetto niche market and pushing the books as mainstream.
Unfortunately, and very likely because of the decining quality (though I'll admit I haven't given it that detailed an amount of thought), I haven't picked up a copy of either Asimov's or F&SF for a good decade. Bad me, I know, but I wasn't getting the return on investment, in my opinion. Then again, I haven't read STORY magazine in nearly as long, so maybe it's me. At one point in my life I was addicted to AMAZING, F&SF, Asimov's and WoIF. Either I changed, or they did, and declining distribution seems to favor the second scenario.
On the other hand, to add a dimension, it's interesting to me that the maturization of visual FSF occurred at roughly the same time. Galactica redux, Babylon 5, X Files, Lord of the Rings, Space: Above..., Farscape and others all far outstrip the previous level of quality in the genre (Logan's Run, Space:1999, Buck Rogers, Galactica 1, etc.). A cynical theory might be that the fans were getting better visuals and so abandoned the more challenging written form, a form which then abandoned its roots and tried to become more commercial. Who knows...?
I truly believe that good SF can still be found in the written form, and we've got to accept that 90% of what was written was crap (Thank you Mr Sturgeon) -- and memories and libraries are now filled with only the good stuff. Was the average issue of 1960's Galaxy really that much superior to today's F&SF? Someone with greater credentials than my own may weigh in, but as a reader I know I've moved away from the magazines and -- for the most part -- the books. And, as a consumer, that might bear attention...
_______________________________________________
Frank, others have already nailed some of my own ten choices, but also consider 'Under the Tuscan Sun', 'Captain Corelli's Mandolin', 'A Bronx Tale' (okay, that has both good and bad), '1900' and *ahem* 'Romeo and Juliet'.
Vendettas, Italian and otherwise
A few days ago, I was thinking of suggesting _The Leopard_ as a fine film about Italians. After all, no one said that the films had to be made by Americans. Figured it'd be regarded as a cheap joke.
But guess what other film just occurred to me? _The Agony and the Ecstasy_. Okay, it's big Hollywood hoke, but remember that both of the principals-- yes, even if they're played by Rex Harrison and Charlton Heston-- are _Italians_.
I haven't seen _V for Vendetta_ yet, and I know I ought to go in with No Preconceptions and the Expectation of Great Things... but I'm going to have to work to do it. It's partly due to my admiration for Moore's comics, and the likelihood that a film won't touch the complexities he brought to his story. For example, although I liked _From Hell_, it wasn't Alan Moore's vision at all.)
But this is what worries me. _V for Vendetta_ was a fable. V himself is a superhero, impossibly adept and skilled and resourceful: really, how _did_ he assemble all of the great stuff in an underground lair? How _does_ he manage those amazing feats of martial-arts skill? How did he go from prison-camp test subject to superhuman aesthete? He is a fantasy, arrayed against a Britain that took Thatcher and Orwell as models for social order. And that's great fun as far as fantasy goes.
But in the real world, what factions have become known for blowing up buildings in the name of "resistance?" Right-wing maniacs and religious fascists. And while V tortures Evey to bring about a spiritual and political awakening-- a sequence I never liked in Moore's original, what with its echoes of Patty Hearst and Stockholm Syndrome-- these people tend to climax their interrogations with videotaped beheadings.
And if the last thirty years or so have taught me anything, it's that people who style themselves rebels against an Oppressive System are _every bit as likely_ to be bullies and fascists who just want a rationalization for corruption and ruthlessness. Look at the way the right wing styles itself here in America: as a heroic resistance to a largely imagined liberal fascism. Once they can convince themselves that their opponents have committed the worst sins imaginable, they feel free to perform others. They tell themselves that Whitewater makes Tom Delay's corruption a minor issue, that Michael Moore's goofiness makes Pat Robertson a comparatively honest person, and that the "holocaust" of abortion makes the murder of doctors a Highly Moral Act.
So I'm a little jaded on the matter of superhero rebels.
State of Science Fiction
A quick jab of an opinion: I, too, don't prefer "today's" science fiction and find too much of it lacking when it comes to giving me the same feelings I've had throughout the years. There is only one contemporary writer that I follow, Robert Charles Wilson, whose books I find every bit as inventive and thought provoking as the formative fiction of my younger years.
Science fiction today - a quick thought
The only science fiction magazine I read regularly is Fantasy & Science Fiction. Some months I will get done and wonder why I wasted that portion of my life. Other times I complete my assignment and just close the magazine in wonder, stunned by a collection of stories that remind me why I have the subscription. But that is only one piece of a great magazine pie. I read a few science fiction books each year. Same reactions. Therefore, I can’t comment on magazines as a whole, nor on anything else that’s published.
But, ultimately, I have a lot of trouble whenever anyone says, “It’s not as good as it used to be.” My analogy is Saturday Night Live. Anyone who watched the first few seasons laments that it isn’t as good as when Belushi, et al were there. You hear the same about casts from the 80s and the 90s. Folks, I invite you to go back to the full episodes and recapture just how dreadfully awful many of the skits were. We tend to remember the good/great things. And there ain’t that many great things. (Everyone sing Sturgeon’s Law along with me.)
I can’t offer you an in depth analysis of the state of science fiction, and I won’t even go into “who are the authors of the future”. I really can’t say whether the writing is as good, or the writers are as good, or the quality of any of it is as good. What I can say is that I can read a collection of Nebula or Hugo winning stories from any year and have very little problem defending the overall quality of that group with any other year.
Mike
Heaven help me, but Rob is right.
And since I seem to be the only heterosexual white male fan of Tom Cruise on the planet, I thought he did a fine job in WAR OF THE WORLDS. (The ending on the other hand...really did almost spoil the movie for me.)
One other thing since Josh Olson seems to have made an appearance...If you haven't seen A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE then you're really missing out. It completely boggles my mind that HISTORY wasn't up for more awards. There's a lot more to this flick than what is on the surface (Mortenson was robbed of a nomination, not to mention Cronenberg was robbed, too), and I double dare you to say that CRASH, BROKEBACK, or GOOD NIGHT deserved to be on the Best Picture list in place of HISTORY.
MR. OLSON,
Well, thank god I joked about Tom Cruise's casting...otherwise it might have actually happened! GAH!!
But seriously, thank you for the reply.
FRANK,
Although I can't sound off ten movies (please forgive me), I AM a devout fan of the Italian 'neorealism' movement. UMBERTO D. and LA STRADA are among my permanent "top ten" list of personal favs.
I was going to mention something about the Super Mario Brothers, but I knew someone was probably going to throw a rock at me...
ERIC MARTIN,
Sorry to break this to you, but I bathe daily, and make a habit out of keeping my clothes stench-free. I also don't mind wearing a suit, depending on the occasion. I'm pondering a career in Hollywood, but then again, I'm also thinking about being the first man on Mars. Frankly, England's the place I'd rather be right now.
So, neener-neener, Captain Stereotype.
Frank:
One for your list ... NIGHT ON EARTH (segment set in Rome). That taxi driver is spot on. My Iti pals agree, garrulously.
Jeff R:
I have visited parallel universes where Harlan spent tours of duty on some of the shows you list. In general, they were not nice places to hang out. I prefer this universe, where Harlan has written JEFFTY IS FIVE, SATURN - NOVEMBER 11TH, MIDNIGHT IN THE SUNKEN CATHEDRAL, and .... you get the idea.
In all my travels I found only one parallel existence that was in the remotest sense fun. It was the the one where Harlan, having resigned after his first day presenting FOX NEWS, was called in to save the REN AND STIMPY show. John K was half way into the script for the series finale, when he came down with writer's block. Harlan had to pick up the story from the point where Stimpy says "Hey, Ren! Something came out of my butt!" You'll have to visit that universe for yourself to see how Harlan took the story line to its only illogical conclusion.
To Brent re: FROM HELL
What ya gotta understand is that the film – in my mind – has NOTHING to do with Moore. I never implied I liked the movie because of Alan Moore. I detached it from the graphic novel completely, and therefore accepted the absence of Moore’s complex themes and studies. This allowed me to accept the film on its own terms (the only Moore adaptation thus far that could do that for me).
But you’re wrong when you say the film was nothing but a murder mystery. It supplied far more than that.
No film I’ve seen did a better job showing us what the lives of prostitutes in 19th century London were like; they faced constant male violence as well as the danger of sexually transmitted disease. At a time when public morality was strict and unbending, private misbehavior was a boom industry. The rich and pious engaged in private secret debauchery. The monarcy was detached and indifferent to the social rifts growing between the rich and the poor. The Ripper murders were a historical crossroad because, in drawing unbelievable media attention, these Dantesque realities were drawn into massive scrutiny. The movie uses visual metaphors to tear into these themes.
The imagery in the film recalled for me a lot of the ornate, naturalistic brutalism and dramatic intensity of some of the Baroque painters (Caravaggio, for instance), wherein a technique known as tenebrism was employed, bringing forms from a dark background into strong light, often to evoke deep personal psychology.
Roger Ebert said something about the film I really liked: “It is a Guignol about a cross-section of a thoroughly rotten society, corrupted from the top down. The Ripper murders cut through layers of social class designed to insulate the sinners from the results of their sins.”
And, finally, I can’t leave out how much I liked Johnny Depp as Abberline. It was interesting how he lived such an isolated life (even his loyal detective partner and Heather Graham seem like lose tangents), alone in his own world, with his poisons and disjointed psychic visions.
And I also liked the ending where he sacrifices himself. When I first saw the film, the picture postcard shot of Heather Graham (an actress I really generally like, but can never get past her obviously bad British accent in this movie) with her daughter some 10 years later really nauseated me; seemed way too “sweet”. But as I ran it again and again, I came to see it differently because it was the image Abberline saw as he passed away. Seeing it through his eyes adds a touch of ambiguity, because, perhaps, that's how he WANTED to see it. He knew that while he lived he faced the longing and temptation of going to her, and that endangered her life. If you really think about such longing…the unfair options life can toss in your face…well…you can FEEL that ending. Heather's ass was saved, but by the saddest card played. A good tragic ending.
That’s why the film worked for me. It had nothing to do with Moore.
It also has a good score, a rarity these days.
**I completely agree with Rick's comments. You have works that are so intrinsic to their own medium. The flipside struck me: if you take filmmakers like Hitchcock, Kubrick, or Bunuel, their personal imagery was so shaped organically by the language of film that, if translated in another medium, like a novel, you will lose the crucial idiosyncrasies in the personal metaphors. The story would be there; but not that personal narrative touch that tells us more than the story itself can. You lose the story beneath the story. Or should I say the REAL story?
Yeah, there are works that can only lose their power when translated in another form. And Moore’s stuff IS among them.
Doctor Who
Hey all--
Just want to make sure you know that DOCTOR WHO has returned to the U.S. airwaves on SCI FI, with a two-hour special begining this Friday at 9:00 EST.
HArlan was of course a major fan back in the day (for which I am eternally grateful, as it was his intro to the U.S. novelisations that first turned me on to HE).
The 2005 edition is quite different from the Tom Baker era (and all the "classic" era series), but it retains the same spirt, updated for teh 21st century.
On the whole, I think this 13-episode season is the best single season of any sf/fantasy show I've ever seen. ("Dalek" and "father's Day" being two of teh most outstanding hours on television ever.)
I hope you all -- esp. Harlan! -- give it a go. Maybe HE will be commissioned to write the intro to the U.S. editions of new novelisatons, and turn yet another generation on to his impressive body of work.
(Please excuse my typos -- using the antiquated keyboard at my folks' home tonigt, and it's giving me fits!)
Okay, I'll bite, too:
8 1/2
The Bicycle Thief
Allegro non Troppo
The Garden of the Finzi Continis
La Strada
Raging Bull
Things Change
Il Gatopardo (The original three hour vesion available in The Criterion Collection)
Big Night
Dear Diary/Caro Diario by Nanni Moretti
The mostly sorry state of literary science fiction today...
To Duayne Scott Thayer, who asked: Is it me, or has SF become boreing (sic) as sin over the last five years?
It's not you, Duayne, I agree that it's as bad as you think it is. There are occasional pearls, but, like you, I've subscribed continually to most of the top zines for years (Asimov's since its beginning in 1977, Analog, Fantasy & Science Fiction, Realms of Fantasy, and I fondly remember Aboriginal, Galileo, and, of course, Galaxy) and I've witnessed the relentless decline in genuine story telling, passion, and that oh-so-hard-to-define "sense of wonder" that drew so many of us to this genre in the first place. I, too, hear the claims that the current (ie. past five to ten years) crop of science fiction stories are far more "literate" than what passed before, but I think that's all self-serving apologist posturing. First, I can't help yet feel that what these defenders call "literate" is actually a convenient way of saying "we don't need clever things like plot, ideas that push the envelope of human experience, passion, or any expression of charisma, because we write so darn good, baby!" Seriously, I've had people, professionals, in this field actually say to me, yep, this or that story wasn't all that interesting, but, hey, look at that great "literate" writing! I just want to paraphrase Saul Bellow's zealously repeated first rule of writing: the greatest sin any writer can make is to be boring! Second, those who claim the current stories are oh so much more literate than what came before do a horrible injustice to a couple generations of writers whose works still blow our minds. Honestly, show me who today can consistently write at the level of (my good buddy, and how I miss him) Fritz Leiber, or Ted Sturgeon, or Phil Dick. Where are today's Kornbluths, or Kuntners, or Linebargers? Geez, and these are just a few of the old dead white guys! How about Budrys, or Wilhelm, or Lafferty, or, oh, some dude named Ellison who wrote a few passably interesting things during a scant 40+ years? Anybody wanna say, hey, them old hacks? They weren't all that "literate" compared to what we got today, were they? No, I don't buy any of this "literate" garbage. In the past this field was blessed with more than its share of great literate writers of the highest caliber, and none of them had any problems with passionate story telling! A couple years ago I bumped into Stan Schmidt outside a meeting room while we were both waiting for the next panel at a convention. I asked him (not right in his face, but after several minutes of undisturbed chatting on a number of related things) why he was publishing so much crap in Analog lately. His honest reply was that he was simply receiving a much greater percentage of crap from writers, and he'd gladly publish better stories...if he could get them! He said that more and more people seem to know "how to write", but they haven't got a clue how to develop an idea or tell a simple story. Okay, Duayne, you and I are opening a can of worms here, no doubt, and I'm sure a few webderlanders are going to take their shots at us, but I'm glad you brought it up. Please, I don't think science fiction is going to hell in a hand basket any time soon, at least I'm hoping it's just going through a sort of down cycle from which it will recover, but for the past decade, give or take, I've gotten pretty sick and tired of reading story after story without the reward of a thought provoking, eye opening, or at least somehow relevent resolution. Writers seem to drop the ball constantly these days, and stories just clunk to an end. Wow, I had the great pleasure to recently read all of the Arkady Renko books, back to back in order, by Martin Cruz Smith. Days and days of unrelenting narrative power, honest dialogue, mind bending experience, every scene viscerally felt as well as effectively described, that left me in a readerly rapture I haven't enjoyed in years. Oh, Mary, mother of God, why can't anybody in science fiction write stories about and create a character like that?! Hey, now THAT is passion, and uber literate to boot! Highly recommended. In the meantime, I'll keep reading all those monthly zines, waiting for the wheel to turn the cycle back up again. Hmmmm, Duayne, so you actually sold a couple stories to Shawna McCarthy back in the day? Well, then maybe you're part of the solution! Maybe it's time you tried selling Asimov's a third!
Crypt and Other Stuff
Jack Karcus: Yes, I remember having seen that episode back in 1978-79; I made a special point of doing so after hearing through the media grapevine that he had a had in the story.
Since Harlan had only a story credit, I felt at the time (and now) that the essense of what he was trying to convey was there but due to budget constraints, the director or network interference, it wasn't properly executed. If I had to rate it I'd give it a 2 1/2 out of 4 stars; worth watching but only as a curio.
Thanks to Josh Olson for an inside look at The Discarded"...I hope it turns out as nifty as its planned to be.
As for the Italian movies, I can only add Cinema Paradiso and Open City off the top of my head.
cmb
Five Years Of Boredom?
DUAYNE,
I like to think there's some juice left in sf.
italiano movies
A brief list, either set in Italy or originally produced there:
Enchanted April
Only You
Bread and Tulips
Stealing Beauty
Cinema Pardisio
Il Postiano
Room with a View
Tea with Mussolini
La Dolce Vita
My Mother's Smile
Summertime
A Room with a View
Where Angels Fear to Tread
The Stolen Children
The Way We Laughed
no particular order there. sorry I gave more than 10, I like them all. some don't have english translations, or only have subtitles. I didn't include the wonderful "Life is Beautiful" when I wrote that. It shows the character of the Italian spirit to make such a film, and the genius of Roberto to do it so well.
I also think that Good Fellas and Casino don't portray any ethnic group negatively. They portray them realistically.
Stephen
p.s. typos are my own. blame it on my irish-polish upbringing.
FRANK CHURCH:
I'll start the list.
How about:
MOONSTRUCK
A WALK IN THE CLOUDS
MARTY
BIG NIGHT
BIG DEAL ON MADONNA STREET
THE BUTCHER'S WIFE
ASK THE DUST
THE ROSE TATTOO
Yr. Paisan, Harlan
A legitamate question for Harlan, or anyone else.
I have been reading SF for over thirty years. I have an extensive collection, everything from the original Galaxy with Jim Blishes "Surface Tension" to signed copies of "Strange Wine" and "Deathbird stories." I have been a subcriber to F&SF and Azimov's for twenty years. Shawna McCarthy was kind enough to buy two stories from me back when she edited Azimov's.
At last the question: Is it me, or has SF become boreing as sin over the last five years? Yes I would agree that it may be more literate, but it just seems to lack any passion.
(Even if you say its me I still won't think that it is.)
Thank you, Dougie McIntosh, for the further linkage to the Alan Moore interview.
Unfortunately, I am on dial up. I am on 17 minutes and counting, and it appears I have only downloaded about 10-15 percent of the interview. Maybe I'll have to wait until tomorrow to watch it.
Alan Moore stated several months ago that he really didn't care to have any input in the V movie. His feelings are that the story is a comic book story, not a movie. When the producers lied about Moore having seen the script and having loved it, Moore demanded a retraction, which didn't happen. He then demanded that his name be removed from the movie and everything connected with the movie. (Some lobby posters that have been posted on the internet have his name on them and some don't.)
Alan Moore is a man of strong beliefs.
Forget the Italian Mafia!
What are we going to do about this Texan Mafia?
One would be hard pressed to name ten films that "say positive things" about *Americans*. A matter of definition. But one can easily make a list of Italian films that naturally portray Italians as the normal (if somewhat soccer-obsessed) people they are. Is mthat really what you want, Frank?
Italians love mafia movies as much as the next guy. The best mafia films preserve aspects of the Italian culture. The most famous ones were, of course, written and directed by Italians or American Italians like Puzo and Pileggi, Scorsese and Coppola. If only average Italians could be portayed in movies, there would hardly be a reason to tell a story about them.
Now as for Germans in American movies... ;-)
Okay, a bit of a quiz for the whiz kids. Name ten films that have positive things to say about italian life and or italians?
Not saying I agree with Paglia, but I just like quizzes.
-----------
Josh Olson, you should go into the archives and look at my stellar essay on the film AI, an essay that even received a rave from our Harlan. I was one of the few filmheads who saw the subtle truths in that film, and saw through the lies that implied that Spielberg was just heaping his usual sacrament unto the dewey-eyed masses.
The Discarded
Sorry for being late to the game... Josh Olson here. I'm working with Harlan on the adaptation of The Discarded. You can probably imagine how thrilled I am to be working with the cat who made me want to be a writer when I was 14. (It was Ellison Wonderland that did it, in case you're wondering).
Ben Winfield had some interesting comments about The Discarded, and the ABC version I’m writing with/for/under Harlan.... You definitely get the story, Ben, and I think you’ll be pleased. At the risk of enraging our glorious host by giving anything away, I have some interesting plans for Harmony Teat, and at least one other female character. (My girlfriend read the story and loved it, but commented - as the womenfolk are inclined to do about such things - that there were no female characters. Harlan points out that it was the late fifties and he was in the army, and there WERE no damn females PERIOD. So there, Annie.)
On top of that, I had some small success injecting sex scenes into my last adaptation, so I thought I’d give it a go again, and unless you want to see Brokeback Discarded with Bedzyk and Samswope, we’re gonna have to add some women.
I’m also with you about keeping Earth off-screen, although I have one tiny blip of a scene in my first draft that might drive Harlan up a tree when he reads it. But if it doesn’t and it survives, you might get a teeny glimpse of Earth. When I say teeny, I mean about three square feet.
I’m with you yet again about War Of The Worlds. Imagine how much better it would have been with, say, Paul Giamatti in the lead? Every time Cruise hit the screen, I felt like I was watching some male model show off the nifty working man’s clothes he’d just bought at Saks. Yack!
And y’know, I think by posting that publicly, I’ve now blown any chance that Tom would play Curran. Damn. We were so close to signing him....
Sorry, Harlan.
V for Vendetta review
I had a chance to see a sneak preview of V for Vendetta last night and posted my review over on the Bulletin Board. While i have not read V, I am very familiar with Alan Moore through Watchmen, Swamp Thing and his early work on Captain Britain.
This was a great movie and captured much of the feel of Moore, including his exposition. A great example of that is when V (Hugo Weaving) first meets Evie (Natalie Portman) and goes on a long soliloquy using almost exclusively words that start with the letter V.
I would strongly recommend this film to everyone, especially anyone who enjoyed Repent, Harlequin. While V is a much more violent character than Harlequin, the two characters are similar in their opposition to an oppressive regime.
Minicon
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned or not, but the Thursday night event is free for convention attendees. That's what the manager at the bookstore said when I spoke to her today, anyway. If her information was incorrect, I guess I'll find out next month. If anyone would like to meet up, I'll be the redhead with the big scary bald man (not Barney).
Jack - Harlan only wrote the story for "The Crypt". The teleplay was written by Al Hayes. That said, the broadcast retains the Harlan Ellison name as the "Story by" credit. Can't help you on whether it's worth your while to track down, as I've never seen it myself.
Anyone remember "Falling Down" starring Michael Douglas? It's the movie where a disgruntled every-white-man (played by Douglas) takes his frustrations out on the multicolored world. I found it mildly amusing when on one of his rampages, he takes over a MacDonalds which is clearly located in a nonwhite section of Los Angeles. And who happens to be manning the registers and deep fryers?
Yep, that's right. A whole gaggle of white suburban kids straight outta Minneapolis. Oh yeaaaah!!!!!
Ethnicisititty
I've always been rather proud of that 1/4 of my heritage that is Welsh. Other than the sterotypical unreliability on deals ("welshing"), and the dual performing gifts of Tom Jones and the late Sir Richard Burton, we've been pretty much ignored in the mainstream media's ethic labelling/libeling.
On the other hand, a good chunk of me is white Protestant American male, with all the freaking baggage that comes with that particular moniker these days...
Has anybody seen the Logan's Run episode "Crypt" Harlan wrote? Did it get 'Birded' and if not is it worth my time to find and watch?
Stereotyping
Dear Camille Paglia
The Mafia exists.
Films and TV shows about italian gangsters merely mine the headlines for character types.
Are they saying that ALL italians are gangsters? No.
Are they saying that all gangsters are italian? Also no.
Are they reacting to a well-known subculture of italian gangsters? Yes.
I couldn't help laughing when I heard "stereotype" complaints about GOODFELLAS and CASINO, two films inspired on real events that merely preserved the ethnic backgrounds of the people involved in those events.
Similarly, I always laugh out loud when I hear folks complaining about the "stereotyping" inherent in depicting airplane hijackers and other terrorists as arabs.
I recall these complaints being loudest about a film called EXECUTIVE DECISION, about arab terrorists who plan to crash a hijacked plane into the east coast. This was BEFORE 9/11. The film was attacked for being ridiculous.
Would it have made sense to have a group of fanatical Belgians?
Fanatical Danish? How about an angry, brutal fanatical guy from Monaco?
Italians/Mob
It's not untrue.
The Yakuza are not pale, hard-wintered Canadians or the Tong suited dandies from Mumbai. They are, respectively, Japanese and Chinese and it is not a slight to say that they are. In the same way, the mafia are Italians. They made it, they own it and they'll be forever associated with it as much as Einstein is with General Relativity even if the new Russians are sharing the term a bit, although you'll notice there's always a qualifier; It the Russian Mafia, not just the Mafia.
I have never suspected anyone, simply because they had an Italian sounding last name, of being in the Mafia in the same way that I would never assume anyone with an Arab name was a terrorist. It's a conceit. We're not talking about you, you just happen to be also Italian, Japanese, Canadian, Black, Jewish, etc. You're not interesting enough to build a television show around just because you happen to share some history with a subgroup we do find interesting.
>to hopefully sate the fanatical zeal of Eric Martin's awkward endeavor <
Harldy fanatical, and there sure ain't no zeal. You may be describing the hysteric tone of your own postings on this matter, but I'm just amused at all the whining.
And maybe if YOU wore a suit, you'd have a better chance getting an appointment with someone whose money and sponsorship you want. A nice wool blend, with a tasteful tie...I know, not the image you're trying to maintain, that of carefully unwashed artist. But just remember: wear jeans, and you'll make just enough to buy them.
The Trouble with Harry (I mean Alan)
The problems I see with translating Moore's work to the big screen are:
- He is an absolute effing genius writing in a specific medium and that is going to be diluted by every party through whose hands the work passes to be translated or edited
- Moore's work is heavily expository which is pretty much anathema for a major motion picture
- Moore almost always relies strongly on presenting a variety of complex, confused characters with conflicting goals and revealing both their past history and present motivation over a long period of time. This has to be daunting to the producer, screenwriter, or director who has usually less than 2 hours to tell the story.
Not that I think any of his adaptations have been anything more than piss water. But I do think any attempt to adapt the work of guys like Busiek, Moore, Gaiman is going to have to either follow one character through a story or focus on a smaller sequence of the story rather than try to tell the whole thing. It's like when 20 naked Pentocostals try to fit into a ford taurus. It's painful to those on the inside. It's confusing to those on the outside. And mainly all you can see are elbows and ass.
In an attempt to correct my post from yesterday (and to hopefully sate the fanatical zeal of Eric Martin's awkward endeavor to balance the writer/executive equation), I freely admit the majority of today's screenwriters DESERVE today's executives. Alternately egotistical, vain, twitchy, and shrill, it's no WONDER these folks leave no impression on the suits during pitch meetings, what with their "It's PRETTY WOMAN meets SEVEN"! and their "It's GODZILLA meets WUTHERING HEIGHTS!" (I'm not going to exempt myself from these people. My own stories are too derivative for any chance of being separate from the rest of the dung heap. There ARE individuals out there who break the stereotype...I'm just not one of them.)
Come to think of it, forget plain old creative bankruptcy; Hollywood's been through those periods before. This is the filmic apocalypse...the end of the mainstream as we know it. The business AND creative aspects of Tinsel Town are shriveling up faster than the body of the Witch King after he was killed by Miranda Otto in THE RETURN OF THE KING.
Okay. I'm done.
movies of today
Some comments about Moore and films:
Alex Krislov
"As I recall, Moore removed his name from the film project over a relatively minor tiff--he felt that pre-film publicity implied he'd approved of the final product, when he hadn't."
While that was the probably the back-breaking straw, Moore was quoted as saying that the script was "imbecilic". Not a good sign, in my opinion. True, he is against film adaptations in general, and I think rightfully so, but I think that should be taken into consideration.
Alejandro Riera
"A commercial film that dares present such brave notions as ideas never die needs to be seen and critiqued."
I think it lost some credibility by pulling back from the 5th of November release date (would have been cute timing considering the Guy Faux poem), due to the tragedy that occurred in London and lost more still by being bashed from the creator of the source material.
Rob
"I DID like FROM HELL, which was diluted but still intelligent."
It cut out all the interesting stuff and focused only on the "murder mystery" which I think if you read Moore's scripts and comments you'll find he wasn't really interested in that stuff at all. The whole history of London and the majority of the meat of the book that really was mind-blowing was nowhere to be found.
Now, I've seen the commercials and the posters and they certainly have the look down. "V" looks great and I'm sure it will be thrilling to see Hugo blow shit up, and stab the oppression - but will the story stand up? It's one of my favorites and when films are made from source material with rare exceptions I find myself wondering why? Why not just make a movie and call it something else? Why use the name of something that it no longer is?
Best-
B
V, Moore and More
As I recall, Moore removed his name from the film project over a relatively minor tiff--he felt that pre-film publicity implied he'd approved of the final product, when he hadn't. This is back when the early drafts of the script were circulating. His complaint was valid--the producers shouldn't be implying they have his approval without his express permission. On the flipside, this means that Moore's removing his name doesn't really say anything about the final cut.
And it's got to be better than the gawdawful film version of "League of Extraordinary Gentlemen."
TV Shows for which I wish Harlan had written
COLUMBO
THE FUGITIVE
THE INVADERS
THE GREEN HORNET
COMBAT!
THE PRISONER
PLAYHOUSE 90
ROD SERLING'S NIGHT GALLERY
A script Harlan wrote that I wish was produced: His BATMAN episode featuring Two-Face.
Any others?
The False Morel in Soylent Green
On the subject of how the film industry appears to operate ....
Those of you who have read FUTURE TENSE, the late John Brosnan's survey of SF in the Cinema from 1900 to '78, will probably recall that some 10 pages of the 300 page book describe the making of SOYLENT GREEN (the movie, not the delicacy, hmmm). Interesting insights from Harry Harrison into the workings of the Hollywood machine (at least how it was in the early 1970s). There is much in what Harrison says that will make you laugh, then cry, then sigh. My quick summary here cannot do it justice:
Charlton Heston read the book and cared enough to spend five years and a lot of his own money trying to get the project off the ground but it took the infamous plot twist to get buy-in from the MGM execs who insisted that they had bought the novel rights ONLY and the screenplay make that shooting script could only be written by one of their own monkeys not the author of the original novel who hung around the studio anyway making helpful suggestions which led to him being blamed for the escalating budget but probably resulted in a far better SF movie than the piece of doo-doo it could so easily have become given that virtually nobody involved in the production but Chuckie had read the original novel.
Something like that.
H:
You may be right.
Understand in this day n' age of cinematic toilet clogs, it requires a word from the revered to consider ANYTHING.
I DID see LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN...and...well, THAT wasn't Moore. It festered. On the other hand, I DID like FROM HELL, which was diluted but still intelligent.
Chuck,
re: the slimy Hollywood heads of yore, there is one other distinction from today's which you forgot to mention, though you're probably aware of it. Them guys genuinely loved movies; it wasn't just their business, it was their passion. Most of them, like Mayer, didn't understand people; but, right or wrong in their judgment, they really cared about what went into the movie.
These guys today - I mean now, from what I grew up reading by Harlan, this breed has been around for 30 or 40 years - REALLY don't give a SHIT. I think they're getting more contemptible by every generation.
V for Vendetta
Well, just saw it at a sneak preview. A good chunk of Moore's ideas and concepts were kept intact and some were updated to reflect our present times. I object to some additions, but I will not spoil it for you webderlanders. WE can debate those once you see the film.
It is mostly loyal to the spirit of the book (and I urge you to read the graphic novel if you haven't yet), and Hugo Weaving is simply amazing. Also got quite a kick of seeing Tim Piggott-Smith (he of "The Jewel of the Crown" fame and so many fine British TV serials) in the big screen.
A commercial film that dares present such brave notions as ideas never die needs to be seen and critiqued. Especially after hearing one Hispanic family complain out loud after the screening that they'd much rather stay at home and watch a telenovela than see a man who never takes his mask off talk and talk and talk. (Actually, they were screaming as the credits were rolling "What a piece of shit! He never took his mask off! And the bad guys stayed alive! What a piece of shit! And I missed my telenovela for this!" At which I shook my head while realizing that these are the same docile sheep who would let any government trample our rights as long as they did not interupt their telenovela or Don Francisco.)
I ain't moved enough by any of the posts since my last one, to the moment, to answer any of them. Lord knows if the person who asked me to talk about my tv experiences cares to go into the Webderland archives, he will find MORE than sufficient to keep him sated. And if that don't work, deputy, you kin reread THE GLASS TEAT and its companion volume. One point, however: do not dismiss the film version of V FOR VENDETTA out of hand, because Alan has taken his name off EVERYTHING emanating from the film world. He just doesn't like what's been done to his work previously, and I have no idea (nor have you, a priori) what his feelings might be in re this latest foray.
I suggest you go see it...or not...
And don't judge a book by chill rumor.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Minor correction: the previous note should read "portraying mobsters as Italians..."
Re Camille Paglia and _The Sopranos_
People, keep the following in mind:
Camille Paglia is a Philadelphian-- and she says that portraying mobsters is a malign smear and a lie.
A _Philadelphian_ says this. Someone whom, we can presume, has heard the names of Nicky Scarfo, Sal "Chickenman" Testa and Angelo Bruno.
Don't give her any more of your attention, people.
Paglia's a bore. Her fifteen minutes wrapped up fifteen years ago.
Through my father's and sister's field of endeavor, I've had the opportunity to know several Italian Psychiatrists, LICSWs and therapists, all of whom are quality people who provide quality value for their services.
Stick with Chomsky, Frank; at least he has a sense of humor.
Mark W.
Yeow! Ms. Paglia pulls no punches...Speaking as someone who had an Italian grandfather, I for one am sick and tired of seeing Italians portrayed as mobsters. My grandfather, who was a full blooded Italian, had a few of those on his side of the family, and they were nothing to brag about, much less talk about. My grandfather also made his living at Bell and Howell, not trying to muscle money out of people. He loved a good laugh, and loved us all unconditionally; he also taught my mother how to cook. He could repair just about anything (ask my sister--she was a genius at taking stuff apart. She would then go to my grandfather and, lifting up the remains of whatever it was she had taken apart, would say "Papa fix?") I refused to watch "The Sopranos" when it came out, and I still won't watch it. If there was ever a movie made about someone like my grandfather, would anyone care to see it? Or would it be just too dull compared to the goings on at the Soprano residence? Hmmm...I wonder.
I bet they took the politics out from V, that is why Moore did the right thing. This guy was always about more than just entertaining the sheep.
--------------
Camille Paglia has contended that the Sopranos is anti-Italian, because it makes Italian men look effete, or they are made to look like gimicky thugs. She also contends that no Italian she knows would ever see a shrink. And, she knows of no actual Italian shrink.
She calls the show elitist and blames the white-pc-left for making Italians the last race of people that can be lied about. She sees the show as plot for plot's sake, with no ideas behind it. She thinks of it as a minstrel show, with Italians taking the place of the blackfaced stooge.
Discuss...
The studio heads back in the days of the "Studio System" were bastards, for the most part. Mayer was a dictator, Jack Warner was a sociopath who screwed over everyone around him, even his brothers and his own son.
The people who run the studios today are bastards, too. However, the bastards of the past grew Hollywood as the world came to know it, and they knew the motion picture business inside and out. The bastards today don't really seem to know anything outside their MBA's. They really don't seem to know or care about the unique nature of the movie business the way the old bastards did.
That seems to be the difference between then and now.
Chuck
"The best works are still coming from the non-suits, and the claptrap ("Joey", "American Idol", the first two seasons of "Enterprise", almost any romantic comedy at a nearby theater) come from the cold and calculating accountants...
So, in response to your question, the corporations get it right only because there are still "artists" among the brass."
Yup. I'm reminded of a scene from THE PLAYER where an executive yearns for a world where they could eliminate the need for writers entirely. Gotta love the Hollywood suit...that impeccable amalgamation of amoral arrogance, flawless efficiency, indifferent ignorance, and stupid cynicism never fauls.
Well I was looking forward to V FOR VENDETTA so it's disappointing to hear AM has disassociated himself from the film. But then I was also looking forward to LEAGUE OF EXTRAORDINARY GENTLEMEN and I still shake my head over that one.
Next it'll be PROMETHEA starring Britney Spears, produced and directed by Rob Cohen!
Sopranos
As a fan of the show, all I can say is, "yeahhhhhh." It was better than it had any right to be. See it, Rick.
That said (no spoilers here), I was put-off by the co-mingled season premier of The Sopranos, and Big Love. Big Love may be a good show (didn't watch it, so I don't know), but they went to such great lengths to force feed Big Love to me (no snickering!), that I deliberately protested by not watching the fucking thing. I hate being "marketed-to." Makes me feel like part of a "demographic," and I'm an anti-joiner.
Once everyone has seen The Sopranos, maybe we can talk about it. Until then, fugeddaboutit.
-Keith
Sopranos
I haven't seen the first episode of this yet and if anyone here spoils it for me I swear to god it will not go well for you. This includes you Harlan I have a little button I can hit and when you log in it will be like you opened the frigging arc of the covenant.
Harlan, are you following the Sopranos?
a winter's tale
...and let me tell you all one little thing, that in the vernacular of the upper midwest there is no sweeter single term than "snow day", with the possible exception of "morel mushroom". 4-8" and piling up; to think it was 50 degrees here on Saturday...
respectfully,
Neal
Producers, et al
Eric -
The producers and assorted "knuckledraggers" fulfill the necessarily evil role of financing and business when it comes to making films. That doesn't make them good or artistic in any way shape or form.
I think you'll find that, in fact, some of the very best films and television programs are those in which the producer is a creative person, not simply a businessperson. F'r example: Ron D Moore, JMS, George Clooney, George Lucas, Manny Coto, the folks at Pixar, J.J. Abrams, Frank Miller, Robert Rodriguez... well, you get the idea.
The best works are still coming from the non-suits, and the claptrap ("Joey", "American Idol", the first two seasons of "Enterprise", almost any romantic comedy at a nearby theater) come from the cold and calculating accountants...
So, in response to your question, the corporations get it right only because there are still "artists" among the brass.
My two dollars and ninety seven cents.
>knuckledragging producers and antbrained network executives<
Yeah, if only we could have no producers or executives. Think of all the great movies and tv shows that would have been made.
I dunno, I think those knucklehead producers and antbrained executives have generally done a pretty good job. I look back at the studio days of Hollywood, and compare it to what's being churned out now, and I don't see a lot of improvement. Maybe even a step or two backwards.
I'm not convinced that putting artists in financial and administrative control of films and television is a good idea. We need those knuckleheads and antbrains, if only to be sure everyone gets paid.
Showtime
We know the Television shows that Harlan has authored that were not been treated kindly by knuckledragging producers and antbrained network executives, but can Harlan if he has the time and inclination to comment on episodes from other programs like The Man from UNCLE, Burke's Law and Cimmiron Strip? It would be interesting to know if he has some personal favorites. My thanks in advance to Harlan for endulging this request in any form he wishes.
BBC2 Interview with Alan Moore available elsewhere . . .
To Alan Coil in Michigan, et. al.
try this website :
http://xrayhand.wordpress.com/
then scroll down to -
Alan Moore Culture Show interview
Filed under: TV, Comics — Youri Zoutman @ 10:58 am
It’s up on youtube, so:
[ you should see a videoplayer box about here, click and give it a try ]
Helpfully,
Dougie.
Mongo
It's fine to show killing and torture on TV, but at smoking I draw the line. That shit could kill you.
Now I'm off to watch Faces of Death XXIX, totally wholesome and smoke-free.
HARLAN:
Thanks, appreciate your restrained response. As Confucius (or was it Chuck Norris) say: "A wise man question himself, a fool others." Fear not, this fool will trouble you no further on such trivialities as the Lobster of the Week Show. Howsabout I try'n field that question addressed to you by ...
STEPHEN at Wrigley Field:
RDM's take on BattleTar Galactica can be read at
http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page?title=RDM_Battlestar_Galactica
See under "Why does the doctor smoke?"
My personal view, not that you asked for *my* view, is that smoking may be cool, but passive smoking (what I have to do) certainly is not, and ... well ... I've seen the effects of a lifetime being cool, and it ain't pretty. Television really is the best place for all that particulate matter.
Too bad about Moore taking his name off the V movie. It might still be enjoyable, but maybe not what Moore created in the original literature.
Just to let folks know, Dad's back home today. No blockages were found, but his heart has a tendency to slow down once in a while. He may need a pacemaker.
But, so far so good.
Chuck
V For Vendetta
Just learned Alan Moore removed his name from the film.
So much for the film.
...and what else is new?
To underscore the acknowledgements to Moore, I owe busloads to WATCHMEN for narrative technique, inspiration, breadth, irony, enigma, juxtaposiiton, imagery, and outright addiction. It allows you to revisit sections and find something new everytime. It's hard to avoid falling back on the cliche "it's a masterpiece in the truest sense". (Footnote: when you examine the sources Moore and artist Dave Gibbons use, it's almost impossible to miss the nod to Jack Kirby in the "storyboard" style panel sequencing, and NEVER was it put to better use)
I've been carving out a very difficult concept myself for a graphic novel, which I hope will take shape in another year, and his book has been a great assist in thinking outside the box.
I agree: W could only work as a miniseries. If they do a movie, I doubt I'll see it. Cluttered shorthand is all you're gonna get. (Frankly, I feel that way about most comic book adaptations, but this is particularly true for Moore's stuff).
Still Smokin'
STephen:
Life on a spaceship is depressing, so everyone takes up smoking. They have little hydropnics centres in the engine room which are discreetly kept out of camera shot.
Minicon 41 - let us take a deep breath
All,
Don't worry about the Minicon checks and such. Let me set the alarmists at east. I, too, was curious about the status of my check (I sent my check in to Minicon in mid January), and I sent an e-mail inquiring after it in the middle of February, and I heard back from both Greg Ketter and Carol Kennedy that it had been received, but that it had not been deposited yet. But they have their act together. My check was eventually deposited in late February/early March.
Greg is at Dreamhaven Books, so it must be quite a feat to setup a convention AND run a book shop, and Darwin knows what else.
See ya all there. I'm coming with my EO Crystal. Roger, I'm looking forward to talking to you again (we met briefly at DragonCon, remember?). Kristin, looking forward to meeting you.
-Keith
a trip down amnesia lane and a question of ethics
TV.com attributes the writing credit to Harlan directly: http://www.tv.com/voyage-to-the-bottom-of-the-sea/the-price-of-doom/episode/58844/summary.html
the folks at portup.com give the 3 word varient: http://www.portup.com/~hjbe/voyage/s1ep5.html
the fine aussies at melbpc at least spelled it right: http://member.melbpc.org.au/~petstaff/scifi/vttbots/vttbots_1_05.html
the boys at vttbots used all 3 words: http://www.vttbots.com/episode_guide_year_1b.html
... and so it goes on for an additional 400 web hits according to the yahoos at Yahoo! ... this amount of dreck and drivel over such an obscure and unworthly episode of a show from 4 decades ago ... >shudder< ... it boggles the mind. And that's enough said about that.
============================
Harlan,
In your professional opinion, is it ethically right for the writers and producers of _Battlestar Galactica_ to show so many of the characters smoking? Never mind that they are on ships with enclosed (and hopefully recycled) atmospheres. Never mind that they have no means to grow those noxious weeds. Never mind that there is no need in the plot or for character development. 2 full seasons worth of shows in the can, and no explanation for why they include it. I find the casual use and showing to be reprehensible. Please tell me there is SOMETHING that justifies what they have done. Please?
Stephen
p.s. I already have my tickets to see Villanova play in the first 2 rounds of the NCAA tournament. Catch'em on tv if you can, the enthusiasm and energy are a thing of beauty.
Kristin in regards to your question sbout your membership for Minicom. I do know my check for membership had been cashed because of my bank records, but not because of any response from Minicom. When I have gone to Dragoncom at least I got a note or email from them confirming they got my payment and picked up my id at the check in. I'm guessing if they have cashed your check your credentials should be at the sign in table, at least that is what I am hoping since they cashed my check. Looking forward to meeting you there at one of Harlan"s panels.
Roger
ASH:
Nothing would delight me more than being able to answer your query re: the onscreen manifestation of "Cordwainer" (properly spelled) or "Cord Wainer" (incorrect), as to its possible genesis either a) as an intentional auctorial denigrative or b) as a normal, to-be-expected production fuckup.
However...
To designate for you, either the former or the latter, it would entail me having to LOOK AT THE FUCKING PIECE OF YAK DOO-DOO for the first time in forty years and, well, to be absolutely forthright with you, my dear friend...
I would rather have someone sear out my eyeballs with quicklime.
So. You're on your own.
Respectfully, Harlan Ellison
That was no ladle, rich -- that was my knife!
More Moore
Here is a link to a recent New York Times article on Alan Moore and his relations with DC Comics and Hollywood. I found the link via Mark Evanier's weblog. If you have any problems go to www.newsfromme.com
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/12/movies/12itzk.html?ex=1299819600&en=dde707f88b70c9e5&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss
Am I the only one who spent all week trying to imagine the conversation Harlan Ellison and Tupac Shakur had about Hieronymus Bosch? (To have been a fly on the cornbread there . . .)
Yeah, V FOR VENDETTA looks like it might be a hoot. I just wish, though, that Hollywood would stop trying to adapt Moore for the big screen. I'm not opposed to the filming of his work, necessarily; but a two-to-three hour movie, no matter how good, will never capture more than a tiny portion of the complexity and richness of any one of his comics. Only a cable miniseries--say, an HBO production of WATCHMEN--has a shot at being anything other than a bitchfest for the fanboys on AICN.
rich
>>We shot the shit for a bit, after our initial shock of hearing about the end of the world ("I would've thought early 2008," TC said, shaking his head.) Begel567 took off, after crushing 68 beer cans on six of his foreheads in one fell swoop, whereupon Duvall gave Begel567 his Academy Award.
<<
that cracked me up
hawhaw
rick
Unfortunately, the link to the Alan Moore interview brings up a message that one cannot view the programme outside the UK.
I know about 20 people in my neck of the woods who would like to see it. Is the video available anywhere else?
Alan Moore
Re: earlier posts, a Alan Moore video interview that I serendipitously caught last week on BBC2's Culture Show-yeah shock, horror comics equated with culture in U.K.-is available for viewing via http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/programmes/index.shtml?id=culture_show (alternatively go to bbc.co.uk/bbctwo and link up with 'Culture Show') Note that this is only until the 16th March, I assume for copyright reasons.
The images of Northampton (Moore's haunting ground) may deter you from planning a tourist literary tour-stylized dystopia indeed!
Bal
It was while working with Tom Cruise on DAYS OF THUNDER that I really understood what a great smiler TC was. (Those of us that know Tom Cruise--truly know him--call him TC. No relation or misunderstandings with Roger Mosley intended.)
So I'm working as an actual wheel nut on DAYS OF THUNDER--you may have spotted my performance in the fourteen car pile up, you know the one I'm talking about it...I nailed it by the way; no wheel nut was as believable as I was AT THAT MOMENT--and there was some downtime as Robert Duvall and Randy Quaid had a competition to see who could crush the most beer cans on their forehead, and I'm talking with TC and we're discussing our encounters with various government officials, mine with the Threaded Cylinders Inspectors (part of the FDA, for some bizarre reason), and TC's with Area 51 tour guide, James Watt ("Not to be confused with the improver of the steam engine," TC said. I smiled and shook my head to indicate I knew exactly who TC was talking about.).
TC and I were interrupted by a UFO settling in our midst. Well let me assure you that TC and I, and the rest of the crew, were nonplussed. TC more than I as the last time he was anal probed by Those From the Stars, they informed him that they wouldn't be back until the end of the world.
So you can imagine the look on TC's face (mine too, since he shared this revelation to me as the craft was settling down on the track we had taken over for the climactic DAYS OF THUNDER showdown), and out popped Begel567 (rough translation).
Well, nothing in Strasberg's class had prepared me for this moment as TC introduced me to Begel567. I mean, I had been THE MAN for inanimate objects--once having been a ten penny finishing nail in CHINATOWN that continued to rust long after initial shooting had wrapped--but I was dumbfounded and stood stock still as Begal567 informed TC and me that the world as we know it would end in the year of Hubbard, 2009. It was true, he showed us the plans and everything. Begel567 didn't know the exact date as the destruction of the Earth was still going through final planning. If funding could be secured, it was supposed to be 3rd Quarter, 2009, but we didn't hear that from him.
We shot the shit for a bit, after our initial shock of hearing about the end of the world ("I would've thought early 2008," TC said, shaking his head.) Begel567 took off, after crushing 68 beer cans on six of his foreheads in one fell swoop, whereupon Duvall gave Begel567 his Academy Award.
Well everything was in place and we worked on our scene (TC nailed it by the way, that smile he gave not only touched his eyes, but reached all the way up to his hairline), Duvall and Quaid started crushing bottles of Ole Grandad on their foreheads, and I went back to being a nut. A great nut, by the way.
But I'll always remember Begel567, TC and I swapping stories on the set of DAYS OF THUNDER, Bobby and Randy ending up in the hospital from crushed craniums, and the secure knowledge that I used my innate ability and training to become a pencil, and inverted the 9, making it a 6.
So while TC has money in Vegas on 2009, I've got the inside track for end of the world in 2006. And I'm gonna rake it in, baby, and TC will be working for me.
Ummm...waitaminnit.
Green Cheese, Claptrap and a Sea View
DOUGIE doon under:
It's never too late! Nice to know it's not a figment of my decaying grey matter, thanks.
SHELLY:
Generally agree with your sentiments, Shelly, but ....
Whether I am intelligent or funny is debatable, that I am cuter than Tom Cruise is a dead cert, but if claptrap is in the eye of the beholder, then my eyes are bloodshot with Graham Hancock bullshit, and I'm getting acute Adrian G. Gilbert glaucoma. I could write an entire essay (with some authority!) on all that is wrong in Chapter 3 of The Mayan Prophesies, but that's for another place I think. I am not objecting to anyone ranting about pseudoscientists or creationists or ufologists here (I don't own the board, and I can't speak for anyone else), all I'm saying is it would greatly lower my blood pressure if (as I think Alan suggested) such talk migrated elsewhere.
Quick question for HARLAN:
Please tell me to get lost if this is further opening an already festering wound. Sad case that I am, I dug out my (unwatched in 15 years) VHS of The Price of Doom. And maybe it is the glaucoma or the old tape, but it looks to me as though the credit reads "Cord Wainer Bird" rather than "Cordwainer Bird". Is this a variant of your pen name reserved for the *really* bad experiences, or did the production team screw up?
TO STEVE
Frankly, I gotta see it to believe what is suppossed to happen on 12/21/12, Anyhoo...like ya said...the Mayans probably have nothing to do with world ending things...only Great Cycles.
Besides if te world ends...it will be the world of humans and not the Earth itself...lest some asteroid or comet decides to play bumper ball with the planet.
Dear Alan,
1. I love hearing what intelligent ,funny people think about "claptrap." I learn from it, I think about it. And God knows i have laughed till i cried over some of the comebacks on this page. (Yours included). :)
2. Claptrap is in the eye of the beholder.
3. Freedom of thought and speech are critical to creativity and commentary. The rules in the Dining Pavilion are simple and fair and i think we should stick with them. Otherwise, no offense, Alan, but it becomes your page and not the group's.
Peacefully,
Shelly
P.S. Not every pretty girl thinks Tom Cruise is cute. He bares his teeth instead of really smiling and his eyes are cold and scary when he does. Some women really do look for who you are on the inside. And that, Benjamin W., is for you.
M. HUDSON:
The connection is an uncomplicated one.
I was the creator and editor of Regency Books in 1970. I bought
DIVIDE THE NIGHT from Donald Honig, a masterful writer best known these days for his superlative books (fiction & non-fiction) on baseball, and I got the Dillons to do the cover, and I wrote all the blurb copy, and I published the novel.
A first edition in excellent condition is now of substantial value, as are ALL the Regency Books titles.
Don continues to write.
Yr. pal, Harlan Ellison
Tabloid religion etc.
Has anyone kept track of all the exact dates the world was supposed to end according to the last ten or fifteen years worth of tabloids???? I know the skeptic groups keep track of all the yearly "psychic predictions" (jeane dixon types) but how many times was Jesus due back lately, in the weekly world news or the sun, say???
I am going to have to PHONE Dreamhaven Books in MN they haven't answered my email which really should have gone to the minicon account, but theirs was the only addy i had. How do i find out my membership didnt get lost in the mail? I SENT the $45.00 and form....now i am going to have to dig through my bank records to see if it was cashed! I haven't got any confirmation of membership.
Kristin
Odd book finding
I found a novel by Donald Honig by the title of "Divide The Night". Gotta love a novel that promises terror, child murders and dark passions. When I flipped through it, I noticed the dedication was a simple "For Harlan Ellison". Dare I ask what is the connection? And why a book that sounds like a 70's exploitation flick made by Al Adamson? Any information would be wonderful.
A simple request
Can we please take any talk of the world ending, UFOs, Area 51, alien anal probes, Tom (I actuall do need a psychiatrist) Cruise, and NASCAR racing over to the other place.
Let's try to keep the Dining Pavilion free of such claptrap.
Thank You.
TO ALL, BUT ESPECIALLY TO KIMBERLEY ANDERSON
Alan Moore's V FOR VENDETTA has, for a long time, since it first was published, been a favorite piece of literature for me.
Let me hear no more silliness about source on this.
1) Alan Moore is a valued friend.
2) Alan Moore is one of the most talented artists I've ever read.
3) Alan Moore does not need to steal from me. Or anyone else. In truth, it is the rest of us who steal from Alan Moore.
"Repent..." is mine, "V..." is his: and never the twain have met. You may quote me. Widely.
Harlan Ellison
Since Harlan was adapting THE DISCARDED for the upcoming MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION installment, I finally made the effort to check out the original story myself.
After finishing the last page, I came to the conclusion that THE DISCARDED is a far better tale for Harlan to re-format than REPENT! HARLEQUIN, mainly because THE DISCARDED seems to touch on more potent issues of the early 21st century. Namely, the importance and value of physical appearence ABOVE ALL ELSE. Spirituality, intelligence, and inner worth have become useless commodities. Being ugly isn't the only factor working against you anymore. Nowadays if you're even REMOTELY 'normal-looking', it can influence your job, your life and your relationships. And it's your fault simply because you were BORN.
The one aspect of the recent WAR OF THE WORLDS adaptation that irked me was the casting of Tom Cruise in the role of an everyman. There's something faintly offensive about Mr. Entertainment Weekly trying to pass himself off as Mr. Joe Average. It's like one of the Gods of Olympus suffering the indignity of becoming a mere mortal. Unless an ordinary man looks like Tom Cruise, the movie seems to be saying, he isn't an "ordinary man" at all. This unpleasant trend can be spotted in a growing number of movies, and not all of them mainstream either.
Strangely enough, THE DISCARDED reminded me of one film in particular (at least on a visual level); NIGHTBREED. I'm a little hesitant about bringing this up as Clive Barker isn't all that popular in these parts, but if the movie failed in the narrative and character departments, it most certainly succeeded in creating some of the most imaginative monster designs of the past few years. I found the Midian of Barker's film the distant cousin of Harlan's Discard ship; a strange, vast prison containing the most outlandish of creatures...some nightmarish, others strangely beautiful. Although some of the special effects have dated pretty badly (lots and LOTS of rubber), what ultimately made NIGHTBREED fail, I think, was its lack of any emotional punch. This is where Harlan's DISCARDED adaptation is liable to be superior.
Bedzyk, of course, is our eyes and ears into the world of the Discards. Whoever winds up playing him in the MASTERS episode should be able to tap into Bedzyk's down-to-earth mentality. He's hopeful, yet cynical; reasonable, yet quick to anger. There should be an aura of strength about him (and I'm not talking physical strength) which would make the viewer believe why the Discards would indirectly dump him in the leader role, but there should also be a vulnerability about Bedzyk that proves to be his undoing (I'm referring to the brutal scene where he's betrayed by Samswope and the other Discards.) What I love about the story is that it's beautifully balanced. The Earthmen are loathsome and unforgivable in their actions, but the Discards aren't exactly innocents either. There's no real sense of unity or kinship among the Discards, and that's probably the saddest thing about them. Even Samswope's betrayal can be understood. Trapped in a godforsaken prison ship for so many years, surrounded by people he only sees as a long series of mirrors, who wouldn't jump at the first opportunity to get out, as naive as your hopes might be?
What I like most about Harlan's original tale was his decision to keep Earth entirely "off-screen", as it were. Unlike most real-life 'freaks', the Discards began as normally-shaped humans. The Sickness proceeded to rip away their bodies, their families, and ultimately their homes. (Possibly one reason why there's no sincere camaraderie among the Discards; they hate each other as much as they hate themselves.) Earth becomes a broken dream to these people, and I hope that concept is carried over to the MASTERS installment.
All in all, I'm excited to see this story adapted. There are many moments that could be incredibly powerful, if done right. My greatest fear is a story that feels like any random episode of the new OUTER LIMITS show, but with Harlan working behind the scenes, the chances are pretty slim.
I have only one request for Harlan. Would it be at all possible to expand the character of Harmony Teat, just a little? I think it might widen the scope for a woman to offer her perspective on the Discard situation. I also found her physical description interesting ("long grey-green hair reaching down past the spiked projections on her spinal column"), and would love to see it realized on-screen.
Speaking of which, if I can talk about celebrity dream-casting for just a second, Tom Cruise might make a GREAT Alan Curran...
Harlan just killed my lunch. hehe.
-----------
Stan, proof is the grist this mill runs on. Without evidence, all is suspect, even our own humanity. We are all on trial and the judge is reason. His gavel is our human skull, and it needs a wack every now and then. Being awake after a lifetime of rest is the way to be. Being human is to be awake. Now, no more nodding off in class.
Cordwainer's Cudgel Confirmed
Harlan,
My apologies for not telling you this story sooner!
Until that day back in 1996, I’d wondered how even one of the big filming Seaview miniatures (which were hollow fiberglass, with mechanics and lights inside) could’ve whacked Samish so thoroughly. But my friend (who does work with 20th-Century Fox occasionally, and would prefer to remain nameless) did confirm that “this was the model that fell on Samish” (he’d heard the story before, and was darn amused by it, actually.) Then, when he told me to pick up the model (and I have photos of me holding it somewhere, packed away), I was truly astounded at its weight. I had to lift it – carefully – with both hands.
To reiterate: this display model weighed 40+ pounds, easily – it was seen throughout the series sitting in Admiral Nelson’s office, or in the observation nose. If a 4-foot long, 40-50 pound metal pipe fell in your lap, from a distance of 5-6 feet, I could easily see how it could’ve done some damage (at least, whacking you into the floor with considerable force.)
Dial 'S' for 'Synthesis'
Well, V and "Repent" share Harlequin-like rebels and dystopic settings. But V's world is violent, V is violent, V is dressed as a Roundhead, V kills people and blows things up, V takes his name from the room he was imprisoned in, V has a teenaged girl protege, and V is possessed of what seems to be superhero-level strength and dexterity. 'V' for Vendetta shares attributes with a lot of things from 1984 to Batman to Man's Search for Meaning to "'Repent...'", just as many fine works share attributes with many other works fine and otherwise.
"'Repent'..." is a wonderful fable; 'V' is a wonderful story about a dystopia with a superhero opposing it.
Love, R. Treehorn
comments to Steve Pyskoty-Olle & Ash in U.K.
To Steve : I totally agree. Neil Gaiman summed it up better in his Sandman series of comic books/graphic novels :
'Endings are beginnings sometimes.'
[ by the way - that's a very loose paraphrasing . . .
===================================================================
Ash, this may be a wee bit late, just recalling yer post within the last week sometime ( - ? sorry, too lazy to trawl back through the posts) 'Bang Bang! Said the Green Cheese Man' had me scratching my beard, thinking deeply on whether i had read this or not. I was still living in Scotland back in '81 / '82,
and I know that either I had that 2000 A.D. annual, or one of my pals did. Hmmm.
I'd probably have to locate a copy and read it again to be sure.
Hmmm. In the language of ma peep-ul : " och, who kin say, laddie!? "
- Dougie.
Harlan Sighting
Harlan is quoted in this interesting profile of 82-year-old Bettie Page, bemused by her cult status
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-bettie11mar11,0,4194244.story?page=1&coll=la-home-headlines
V
Kimberly:
V is actually modelled on Guy Fawkes.
I'm sure any resemblance between the two stories is superficial, and nothing to trouble Harlan. The movie is based on the excellent, though probably deemed too "British" for movie audiences, comic by Alan Moore. It will be interesting to see how they have adapted it.
The Mayan Calendar Myth
It was written: "...the Mayan calender thing of humanity ending on December 21, 2012 or 2013."
Nobody seems to ever get this right, so I'll continue my one-man crusade to get the facts straight on this one.
The Mayan calendar DOES NOT say that humanity or the world or whatever will come to an end on 12/21/12. What does come to an end on that date is a Mayan Great Cycle.
The Mayans tracked time in many cycles (as we do: days, weeks, months, et al.). And one of those cycles does indeed end on 12/21/12. And it is great in length, some 5000+ years.
But once it ends, a new Great Cycle starts up again, just like a new year starts up on Jan. 1.
The snake-oil sellers like to tell us that the world is gonna end on that date due to the fact that the Mayans lived during this same Great Cycle, so it kinda-sorta looks like the end of it is The End. But it ain't. Archeologists have found references to previous Great Cycles in Mayan writings, and 12/21/12 is no more and no less than the final day of the current one.
So sleep easy on this one. The world may yet end on or before 12/21/12, but it won't be because the Mayans knew something we don't.
V for Vendetta
This movie looks a LOT like "Repent Harlequin said the Ticktockman". Has Mr. Ellison seen the previews yet?
Chuck Norris
I like Chuck Norris:
1. He kicked the butts of terrorists before it was in vogue.
2. He usually gives the bad guys the first shot at him, after which he rearranges their furniture.
3. His code of ethics looks pretty damn honorable to me. I don't think there is anything wrong with loyalty to God, country, family, and friends?
4. According to Unca Harlan, Mr. Norris used Q-tips effectively during that Ms. Buns competition. I give him an extra tenth of a point there for hygiene.
5. Whoops, gotta take back that tenth of a point and subtract a whole point for hygiene...remember that back hair during the final fight in 'Return of the Dragon'?
6. 8th degree black belt in Tae Kwon Do. Nuff said.
Harlan wrote a fine introduction to the Ballantine/Del Rey book "Shadows of Death," a collection of H.P. Lovecraft's tales. In the intro, Harlan correctly identifies HPL as a "semi-recluse," and thank goodness for that, because that's exactly what HPL was. Most people get it wrong and call HPL a recluse, which is only correct if one describes about four years of the man's life. At various times HPL travelled up and down the eastern seaboard, from Quebec to Key West, and he wrote wonderful essays on these travels(collected by Hippocampus Press in Vol. 4 of HPL's Collected Essays - TRAVEL).
Also FYI, there's a new silent movie on DVD, "The Call of Cthulhu" from the HPL Historical Society. I just got mine in the mail and can't wait to see it.
TO FRANK CHURCH ON PENN JILLETT
Frank, If it's the same Penn from Penn and Teller...then yeh...even ol conservative me would freak at that comment. After
all...that pinhead says UFO's, Area 51 and life on other planets is a figament of our imaginations...he is always saying
quote..."Where's the proof!" Oh yes....he states Nostradamus was a charleton...maybe so...maybe not. But he sure as hell came close on some of his predictions. I suppose the next few years will tell us...you know...the Mayan calender thing of humanity ending on December 21, 2012 or 2013. I know we don't agree on much, Frank...but at least once in a little while something crosses our paths that tunes us both on the same wavelength...I think we just did.
Your advesarial friend...STAN
Dear Mr. Bell:
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!
For more than forty years now, I have more-or-less, sorta50/50 believed both Irwin Allen and the lawyers who spoke to me after, were inflating the ACTUAL physical damage sustained by that arrogant twit, Adrian Samish.
How, I kept asking myself, could a goddam MODEL break a man's pelvis?!!????
NOW I know. Jeezus peezus, holy gadzoley betty-spaghetti!!!!
I cannot thank you enough. I was still howling and thrashing like ball lightning when Paul Zastupnovich and Mike Somebody literally grabbed me under the arms, right off the edge of that table whereon I was hanging half-on, half-off, still swinging at the muthuh, lying there against the wainscotting, sub in lap.
They schlepped me into the next office, rammed me into a secretarial chair on casters, held me in place till I calmed down, and ... I was never in that conference room again. Ever. Irwin had me banned from the 20th lot for a long time.
NOW I know!
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Cordwainer Bird's Cudgel of Doom
Harlan,
It may amuse you to know that, 10 years ago, a friend of mine (who’s a professional modelmaker) was entrusted with refurbishing the original, 52-inch display model of the Seaview for Sheila Matthews Allen (Irwin Allen’s widow.) And, since “Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea” was one of my favorite shows from childhood, and the Seaview is my favorite SF vehicle ever, I had to make a pilgrimage to see it.
So, I schlep down to Southern California, and behold the original, 8-window (first season) version of the Seaview. I picked it up, and was amazed – it was DAMN heavy. The core of it was a 4-inch diameter metal pipe, with sculpted fiberglass detailing around it.
So yes, Webderland readers, I can confirm, beyond a shadow of a doubt: if this sucker fell off a shelf onto you, after you’d been knocked to the floor by an angry Cordwainer Bird, it could easily break your pelvis.
And, I suppose, if I’d taken rubbings from the hull, I might’ve still found Adrian Samish’s DNA on the surface. :-)
-- Jon
Dan Simmons, Harlan Ellison, Oscar Wilde and pit bulls.
My good friend Kenton drew this to my attention because he monitors the Dan Simmons site about as often as I hit this one and some cross-polination has happened. I would paste Dan's post directly here but I don't want to ruffle any feathers even though I doubt Dan or Harlan would really mind. It's Dan Simmons remarking on the needlessly critical comments John Gardner made concerning Harlan a few years before Gardner died.
Here's the link which will also cover the follow-up remarks.
http://forum.dansimmons.com/ubbthreads/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=3897&page=0&vc=1
or;
http://tinyurl.com/klthh
to make it easier to copy/paste. The last time I looked at the thread [yesterday] everybody was saying sane and rational things with Dan being [no suprise here] very articulate and fair.
For anybody who just got here, so that Harlan doesn't have to chew his cud on this one again, there is a post back in the archives where Harlan easily distinguishes between Gardner the brilliant novelist and Gardner doing a mean-spirited piss take.
So that's all covered.
And I wouldn't bring ANY of this up except that Dan has such a way with words that I would read instructions on how to check tire pressure if Dan wrote them.
************************************************
Regarding The Chuck Norris phenomena - I saw part of a clip with him on that talk show with Tony Danza (In hell EVERYBODY will have a talk show and everybody has to be on everybody elses show and sit in all the audiences as well and the exact color of green in the green room makes you want to put your eyes out, so you eventually will) and he seemed to have a good sense of humor about the whole thing.
********************************************************
Ms. Butler's passing. Sorrier than I can say about this one. Met her once in New York City. We spoke for perhaps a minute. She seemed amazingly shy for someone with such presence and talent.
How can I say I look forward to reading the essay? I do not. I'm sure it will be brilliant and I hate it already for the fact that it needs to exist.
- Barney
STRANGE REPLIES
A) Awwwww, I d'wanna go to that Chuck Norris site. Nuh-uh. Why? Because...for those of you who've read my book AN EDGE IN MY VOICE, you'll recall I spent a bewilderingly pleasant evening in Mr. Norris's company, the one time I met him. But anyone who was a friend of Bruce Lee's cannot be a total wormwood, no matter WHAT he's saying at that site to unravel yer socks.
B) Yeah, I did, for real, meet Tupac. Guy had some grit beyond mere street cred. He din't flash me no wolf card. But he DID want to know if I knew who Hieronymous Bosch was, having very recently been "widened" to the dude.
C) Mahzel tov, Elijah, on the birth of your homunculus. And Chuck--a hefty portion of that m.t. for you and your Dad.
D) Anyone who buys those DVD sets of "Voyage to the Bottom of Irwin Allen's Ego" and "The Flying Nun" because they contain a single episode each by the infamous Cordwainer Bird...do NOT, I
repeat, do NOT come crying to me.
E) Steve, that damnable flu/allergy/sinus/cold/whatever that had me by the phlegm and the teabags for several months...well, it's more or less shambled off over the horizonline to cudgel other innocents...but I still hack and rasp more than a couple times a day, I still ache when I rise every morning, my stool is yet to be firm and exquisitely contoured, and my eyes continue to water, but yeah more or less I'm over the worst of it, I guess. Anyone out there want more specific, albeit revolting, symptoms related in TechniColor (a registered TM)?
F) I wrote a new 4200 word essay on Octavia Butler today. It is titled "She Was Estelle" and will appear first in the next issue of LOCUS. Thereafter, who knows?
Have I forgotten anything?
Now...about those stools...
Yr. pal, Harlan
Mark:
We will have good stuff.
--Susan
Some Health Issue Inquiries, and Some Personal News
(Chuck: I'm glad to read that all is better with your father. Very happy it didn't go any other way...)
(Stan: May I inquire as to the health of your wife?)
(Harlan: are you finally over the lingering cold/sinus infection/whatever it was that had you miserable a few weeks ago?)
(Eric: C'mon. I applaud your intent to positivize the Pavilion with notes of famous births, but starting with Chuck Norris? Surely there must be SOMEone more deserving of the premiere spot.)
In the spirit of sharing good news: This should be a fun weekend. I have four photographs in competition at a major art show here in Long Beach, including one up for "Best of Show".
And, in the continuing saga of my wife's music efforts: her cd is now available for download on iTunes; she was just nominated for an Orange County Music Award (different from the SoCal awards, which she lost last month); and a South African (?!) company in serious negotiations for distribution rights for that country.
Three hundred more years of this and I can give up my day job...!
Interior Secretary Gale Norton resigned today. Oh, the humanity.
So much for buying my Brooks Range condo next year with a view of all those oil derricks. What is to become of affordable housing in America?
Well, I don't give a hairy rat's butt about Chuck Norris right now, because I had one hell of a scare today. I brought my sister home from a doctor's appointment at about 12:30 and my nephew met us with the message from my younger sister: My father had collapsed. That was all the info we had. My younger sister was heading into the Rocky Mountains to sell some real estate, and cell phones don't work too well up there. No way to reach her.
We had no idea what my dad's condition was, where he was (other then the Phoenix, AZ area), or anydamnthing.
I called a friend of mine at her job and she looked up a couple of hospitals in the Sun City area. I called and got 'Bingo' on the first try.
Bottom line: Dad's okay. He'll be there overnight, but it looks like he'll be fine.
So, nothing can bother me now. Not even thick-in-the-middle bad actors with a Message to the People.
Giddy with relief,
Chuck
Thanks
Susan,
Thanks for the information. I just sent Greg Ketter an email asking if he had tickets available for the April 13th speaking engagement.
Will you be having some of Harlan's book available for purchase at either the event or at the Convention?
Mark
Chuck Norris was born today. Dammit.
Here's his code of ethics.
http://www.chucknorris.com/images/products/Chuck%20Norris-code2.jpg
gutenberg and wikkiwakkiville
Harlan will agree that these are both useful tools, this press thingie you speak of ,Frank, and that intranest as well...
sez so right here, must be true,
Neal
David,
Be a little careful when you buy a copy of a film that's on VHS or DVD, but it's not from a "reputable" company. You'll get the film, it's just that a film that hasn't been officially released in the desired format by the studio (or whomever holds the rights), you'll get a copy of a copy of a copy. Quality eventually suffers.
But if it's something you really want, like when I bought the Star Wars Christmas special in all its infamous glory, you'll put up with a grainy picture. (On the plus side of someone copying directly from the television when it first aired, you get all the commercials. Good times.)
Yeah, but, take that from where it comes.
Harlan, your gonna freak when you hear this. Penn Jillett, on his radio show, said that the internet is the greatest thing since "the Gutenberg printing press."
Tell me this aint some of the greatest music you will ever hear:
http://music.barnesandnoble.com/search/product.asp?z=y&EAN=75597982725&ITM=1
African, Asian melodies--bliss.
---------------
The ports deal is finished, and that boil has been lanced. Bush comes up from the muck, spitting centipede piss from that little smirk. Must be a good day in hell.
DVD to add to our Harlan collections
Believe it or not, they've started releasing the mid-1960s TV series _The Flying Nun_ on DVD. Among the first-season episodes is "You Can't Get There from Here," credited to one "Cordwainer Bird."
I know, the pen name indicates that the final product isn't something the Author thinks is worth chasing after. Admittedly, there is the chance to see an amazingly young Sally Field-- but, since Sally Field just kept getting _better_ over the following decades, maybe we'd be better off watching her in _Norma Rae_.
The world, The flesh and ebay
I tried my usually reliable sources but so far not a VHS copy much less a DVD of The World, The Flesh and The Devil has popped up.
But.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=617&item=9113049851
There are copies floating around ebay and half.com which your friend may want to look at and see if its worth digging into his wallet. I think TCM ran it recently so you might want to check their website and see the next time it comes up on their rotation. I think the last time I saw it was when it played network TV the first time, and it was a big deal, since we got to stay up late...past 9pm! Seeing a city totally empty was spooky, after spending a week in the typical overcrowded classrooms of california in the 60s.
Hope this helps you find the film for your friend.
David - Half.com has the movie you are looking for in shrink-wrapped VHS. Just go there and type the title in the search. Good Luck
obscure skiffy
Does anybody know whether "The World, The Flesh and the Devil" (1959 edition, starring Harry Belafonte, Inger Stevens, and Mel Ferrer) is available on DVD or VHS? I'm not having any luck locating a copy for a friend.
Harlan mentioned at www.ScreamIfYouWantIt.com
FYI:
http://www.screamifyouwantit.com/content/view/144/43/
Dear Stephen:
No email. You can tell us how much you would like for the 4 items (inc. postage)on this forum (the rest of the people have promised not to look) or, you can write to me at the HERC address (P.O. Box 55548, Sherman Oaks, CA 91413, USA.) Thank you.
With kind regards--Susan
Kate,
Welcome! It's nice to find someone else from my part of the Enchanted Realm stopping in. (I live 30 min north in the necropolis of Harrisburg.)
Mr. Ellison, your reply delighted me -- thanks for taking the time to answer. Like you, I also hope for the best -- and while I'm aware of the confusion and darkness that surround us, I endeavor not to lose sight of the goodness, humor and beauty that also exist. Or my own responsibility in not only recognizing their existence, but, in some small fashion, fostering that existence.
Reece, thank you for reminding me of Toscanini's comment concerning Richard Strauss. I had heard the story, perhaps apocryphical, that Toscanini had come upon Strauss on a train. Toscanini, seeing Strauss, took his hat from his head and said, "Mr. Strauss, I take off my hat to you in honor of your music." He then placed the hat back upon his head and said, "But, as to the man, I put my hat back on." And he walked away.
And now, before I wear out my welcome, I think I'll slip back into the shadows. :)
Quotes
Re the subject of cynicism: I've always liked this quote -- "A cynic is a person searching for an honest man, with a stolen lantern." -- Edgar A. Shoaff.
Re Harlan's inability to enjoy Sinatra's music: Arturo Toscanini's comment on the composer Richard Strauss may be apt -- "In art, a genius. In life, a pig." 'Nuff said.
It's funny how some things work out. In the current, March, newsletter of the Nashville sf club (of which I'm secretary),
I posted a joke which quoted Lily Tomlin's character, Ernestine ("under new management"), saying "One ringy-dingy..." and included a link to an image of the Bell South building in Nashville (which everyone thinks looks like the outline of Batman, so it's called 'the bat building' or 'the Batman building' by locals), but with the Eye of Sauron (from Peter Jackson's movies) glowing between the two antennas. Two days after posting the newsletter, it was reported that AT&T was going to buy Bell South for $87B. The phrase "under new management" suddenly took on a new meaning, and the Eye of Sauron seemed more than merely a jest (newsletter archives posted at the MidTennSFF newsgroup; registration required).
Elijah,
Congratulations on the new baby. Decades and decades of happiness I wish upon your clan.
Rick,
Thanks, Mr. Wizard, for once again fixing the frammis and making the forums go again.
Chuck
I think Harlan is kidding about meeting Tupac, or I'd think he was kidding, since he hates rap so much. I doubt Tupac would even know who Harlan was. Sure, Tupac was a voracious reader, but that's beside the point. Let's not forget, Tupac mainly read serious stuff, not Sci-Fi fluff.
Hope you know, I am joshing with you, Harlan. Looks away, scared.
Did you know, Tupac's favorite song of all time was "Vincent," by Don McLean. I heard they played that song at his bedside, right before he died. No joke.
HARLAN ELLISON APPEARANCE AT MINICON 41
Dear Mark:
Minicon flyers are on the way to HERC members but, here's some information for you.
MINICON 41
P.O. Box 8297, Lake Street Station
Minneapolis, MN 55408
www.mnstf.org/minicon41
Email:request@minicon.mnstf.org
14 - 16 APRIL 2006
Memberships $45.00 each
at: THE SHERATON BLOOMINGTON HOTEL
7800 Normandale Blvd.
Bloomington, MN 55439
Room rates from $82.00-$92.00 plus tax
To book: 1-800-325-3535 or 1-952-835-7800
NOTE:
There is a special Thursday (13th) night (7:00pm) event with Harlan at the Sheraton. Tickets are $10.00 each.
Call Dreamhaven Books for tickets and more information.
612) 823-6161.
HE will also sign at Dreamhaven Books (912 West Lake Street, Minneapolis)on Sunday April 16th. 5:00pm-7:00pm.
Call Greg Ketter @ (612) 823-6161.
Please check with the website or Dreamhaven...all it takes is one typo.
Hope this helps--Susan
same old story
Tim Maher:
I don't know the precise details, but I think you could safely say that White Wolf didn't perform up to Harlan's standards.
Right on, Harlan!
To which, I might add: illegitimus non carborundum!
Mark
Aspire to be better
Spero meliora or "Aspire to be better" is a credo I wholeheartedly endorse and try to instill in myself and my children. Harder than it sounds, sometimes, in a world where expediency is often so seductive
Just curious, I had heard that you would have a speaking engagement prior to your appearance at MiniCon in April. I have not seen anything about it either on this site or on Dreamhaven's (although they do list your signing on April 16th). Is this event still planned or has it been cancelled?
Thanks,
Mark
Rick, the true response should have been, "What are you talking about? Looks good to me?"
Of course, that only works AFTER you've fixed it.
-TODD
>If Eric Martin was responsible for this then he should be developing security programs for Norad or the NSA<
Busted. Mild-mannered special education administrator by day, Rakish G-12 cyber-spook and Webderland nettle by night...if only Salma hadn't left me, I'd be complete...
My definition of a cynic is a lazy pessimist.
Nostalgic Memorabilia Auction
Harlan,
Don't know if you're aware of the following online auction site, but I think it might appeal to you:
http://www.randomta.com/
thanks
Rob
KATE:
I agree: the appellation "cynic" is not one I have ever used to desribe myself. Not in public, not in private, not even in rumination. I'm too witty to be a cynic. Smartass? Well, uh, maybe. But NEVER a cynic. A skeptical inquirer, fer shur. I think, like you, that cynicism is a blockage in the blood-flow of reason.
What I AM is quite another problem.
Naming myself is tough, because I thwart my own beliefs and positions on a daily basis, which makes it hard to say I'm
this or that.
I KNOW I'm a Pragmatist.
I THINK I'm a Rationalist, a Humanitarian, a Progressive, a Nostalgist, an Empath, and determinedly, without exception, a Man Responsible for His Behavior.
Times change, I learn more every day, and so my opinions alter over the decades and, yes, it infuriates me when some doowah uses something I said thirty years ago to impugn me today. One does learn, one does mutate and mature, and what I said when I was a brash teenager is merely embarrassing today, not (as they hope) damning.
So I guess, not being a cynic, I simply say:
Spero meliora.
Look it up.
Yr. pal, Harlan
re: Phorums Phixed
Rick:
You could'a just told us you'd reversed the polarity on the triodite oscillators - we would've believed you. Seriously though, I know being a sysadmin is a generally undervalued task, DBA or webadmin doubly so. And I guess you're all three. I appreciate your hard work keeping this site going.
Phorums Phixed
Ok I have no idea what happened on the forums. The sessions table that keeps track of who is on when was badly compromised. It didn't show in the database schema but when I tried to add it it told me it already existed. I had to go in manually via command line interface to MySQL, rebuild the schema from a backup, and redump the commands to rebuild the table and indices. That seems to have worked.
I have no clue what happened and I have never seen anything like it in an SQL database. If Eric Martin was responsible for this then he should be developing security programs for Norad or the NSA because that would have been some complicated shit to pull. It's 99.9999% more likely due to some fuckup on my server like someone kicking the box at the exact wrong time.
Anyway, forums seem to be running again. I may purge them to delete old threads after a backup soon but other than that go for it.
Elijah
!Congrats on the birth of your new son. What a joyous thing! I think this is not a non-sequitur, but the beginning of Eric's fantasy of announcing famous births on Webderland. The only problem is, you didn't let Eric announce it. You scoundrel.
-Keith
appropos of nothing, but everything to me
While a non-sequitor, I post this in the spirit of community and general geniality: My first child was born this past week, a son. Liam Gumayagay Newton touched down at 3.3.06, 8lbs 15 oz, 21.5". Mother and baby (and I) are fine, though at any given point two of the three of us are severely sleep deprived.
A quick note on breastfeeding: I'd understood, in theory, that this is a learned ability as much as an instinctual thing. That knowledge doesn't make pitting two full grown adults against their beloved larva any less Keystone Kops-esque.
Foreign Edition Books
Susan,
Thank you for taking the time to reply.
I still have everything, and more that I didn't list as I haven't gotten to those boxes yet. My wife and I are expecting a son in mid-April and preparing things for his arrival is taking a large amount of my time, including getting rid of things I just don't have room for any more.
I originally posted the foreign editions because Rick Wyatt still has "Urania presenta Millemondi Autunno 1996" listed on the things Harlan wants list and it was the first one I saw when going through an old box of books. The collection took me over 25 years to assemble, and the cost is incalculable at this point. Shipping alone from Europe would probably run 7-8 euros per book these days. That all being said, I am not comfortable discussing money matters in a public forum. I would appreciate continuing that discussion via email.
[And since I was just thinking of it, the ebay site for Belgium is probably a good place to look for other non-English editions of Harlan's work: http://search.benl.ebay.be//search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=harlan+ellison is a place to start, and I recommend checking the "Zoeken in titels en beschrijvingen" (look in titles and descriptions) box and searching again.]
When Harlan replied to my original post he mentioned archives kept by "Barney or Tim or Scott" who might want/need other volumes from my collection. If you have the time, can you pass things along to them?
Lastly, where and how should I send the package? I'll cover the postage up front since I have no idea how much it will be. My return addess and other contact information will be included of course.
Kindest regards,
Stephen
p.s. my original post from February 2nd is near the bottom of the page in the archvies here: http://harlanellison.com/heboard/unca.htm?beg=401&num=100
Unca Harlannnnnnnnnnnn..... What about MY list! (whines)
Actually you of course know Mrs. Stockmeyer, although I have the feeling I've spelled her name wrong.
You also undoubtedly have at least seen the late Miss Eleanor Velasco Thornton, although presumably not to speak to.
The others I'm not too sure about.
Wasn't it "Betty Page" by the way?
Cynical Philosophy
"A cynic is an optimist who's been proven wrong too many times..."
My own, and learned through long years o bein' screwed.
(And Rick: what'd your server do to the Forums???? They gone all blinky on us.)
(Or was it Eric trying out his new Neutron Response weapon?)
>I'm going to risk pissing off Eric Martin <
That's it! War has been declared. For now on, for every "famous" death that is noted on this board, I'm going to post a famous birth. Or something.
Those who enjoy combining their love of reading with their love of movie magic may wish to inquire within-
http://www.watsonguptill.com/detail.html?id=0-8230-8400-0
Dana Reeves' death is a tragedy, to be sure. It has nothing to do with cynicism. Many unjust, inexplicable and horrible things happen in the universe. Every once in awhile, something wonderful happens as well.
The definition that a cynic is an idealist who has been kicked in the teeth seems specious to me. I'm sure there are many cynics who have never been idealists. There are also idealists who have been ill-treated by the universe and others yet still don't fall prey to cynicism.
Cynics believe that every one acts out of self-interest. While that might be true in many cases, we know there are also examples of people who act against their own self-interest. If you don't find that in your own experience with others, you can find examples in history, literature -- and sometimes in the news.
Cynicism has always seemed an easy, sophisticated posture to me.
HARLAN & BUD: You are both wrong. I was, of course, referring to George Lincoln Rockwell's lesser-known brother, Norman, the artist of such famed works as ROSA DIE NIETPISTOLE and . . . oh, fuckit. I got nothin'. I kinda figured you might've known Paige, Harlan, but Rockwell and Shakur were shots in the dark. It sort of makes sense you crossed paths with Tupac--he was a perfect example of someone who, despite his considerable talents, "couldn't get out of his own way," as you always put it.
Your nigga in Floridda,
Jim Davis
.
P.S. DVG: Because of your post, I now know who Penny Arcade is. I'm not sure I should thank you for this dubious pleasure.
P.P.S. Since the other board is in Debug Mode or something, I'm going to risk pissing off Eric Martin and note the passing of Ivor Cutler, the great Scottish songwriter, storyteller and poet, who died in London last week at the age of 83. He was best known for playing Buster Bloodvessel in the Beatles' film MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR; however, his surreal, delightfully dour spoken word pieces--often accompanied by his harmonium and delivered in a brogue as thick as Cock-a-Leekie soup--are his greatest legacy. The album LIFE IN A SCOTCH SITTING ROOM VOLUME 2 (there was no volume one, naturally) is the perfect place to hear them, if you're interested.
JIM DAVIS:
You strike out on all three.
1) You don't mean "Norman Lincoln Rockwell,": you mean George Lincoln Rockwell, who was the head of the American-Nazi Party. Not only met him, but damned near went flailing into the cocksuckuh. Before I came to Los Angeles. In Chicago.
2) Not only did I KNOW Bettie back in the day, I worked with her main photographer, Bunny Yeager. You forget, I was the editor at ROGUE MAGAZINE 1959-60, during Bettie's heyday. I sat for endless hours, peering through a loupe, poring over hundreds and hundreds of contact sheets of Bettie dressed, Bettie undressed, Battie partially undressed, Bettie with her left leg outthrust, Bettie with her back arched, Bettie pretending to growl, Bettie reattaching her garter belt, Bettie on the beach, Bettie in the jungle, Bettie on her back, Bettie in a swing, Bettie Bettie Bettie. And I still know her. Come to the house some time, and you'll see the large signed, framed photo Bettie sent me only a few years ago, thanking me for writing the introduction to Greg Theakston's book about her. Oh, my yes, I knew Bettie Page. Despite hard times for her through the years, a terrific lady. Classy then, classy now.
3) Met Tupac and shared suth'n cooking with him once at Maurice & Verna's Snack'N'Chat. I liked him; he called me a nigguh.
Care to take another guess? I get around, son, I get around.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Anybody interested in seeing the classic "The Clown" episode of One Step Beyond can find the dvd for sale at TCM. I checked all the listings at Amazon and could'nt find it. I heard it was the first time a evil clown was shown on tv.
Books, movie theaters, and more books
I also enjoyed the comment about (paraphrasing here) ...preserving the culture of books.... Did Robert Altman bring that up or was it Larry McMurtry or Diana Ossana? Does anyone have any interesting stories about Diana? She seemed quite pushy from what I saw. If I'm out of line asking about her I feel confident someone will let me know.
I thought the comments the President of the Academy made about seeing a movie in a theater were a paid endorsement by theater owners. (Again paraphrasing) ...enjoying a movie in the theater with sound all around you and strangers brought together to enjoy the same movie... Maybe once upon a time this was true. Or maybe I'm older and have little kids and lots of excuses. I don't think piracy is stopping theater-goers, I think DVD players, big screen TVs, surround sound, microwave popcorn, and the pause button are killing it. Because in MY HOUSE, I can enjoy the movie without paying through the nose to sit behind some reeking yeti and listen to all those strangers mumbling and cell-phoning throughout the movie.
Open question to any and all: do you attend anywhere near the movies you did once? If not, why?
I hope this next question doesn't get me thrown out a hotel window for asking, but what is the story behind White Wolf/Edgeworks series? "Series cancelled" is all I can find when I look for info.
Harlan, the art you chose for the Edgeworks books I own is beautiful. Thank you for taking the time and care to create a book series as good looking outside as it is inside.
Thanks for giving me the floor for these few minutes.
A cynic is an idealist who has been kicked in the teeth.
Makes sense, in a world such as this one. A world where a great lady like Dana Reeve dies at 44 fucking years old, but fuckers like Donald Trump will probably outlive us all. Makes you wonder about all this God stuff.
Cindy, you have to explain this one.
Mr. Ellison, if you'll indulge a question: Benjamin W.'s remark re "the alleged cynic" did make me wonder if you consider yourself a cynic? Unless I'm reading Benjamin's post wrong, my impression of his post is that he was, perhaps, drawing a comparison between the reality of who you are -- and the perceived reality of who Harlan Ellison is by those who may not have taken the time to read your stories, your essays and your remarks on this site. (An aside: Benjamin, I didn't take that as a negative post.)
Based on my own interpretation of what I've read of your work and your posts, I wouldn't classify you as a cynic. There's too much hope, wonder and amusement in many of your tales. The tales that are the darkest often have a cautionary thread running through them that strike me as having been written by one who still hopes that, in the end, good will prevail. Or, at the least, that some understanding of self will be gained. Not the work of a cynic, I think.
Bud Webster is a funny man.
I told a friend that I liked the movie Ocean's Eleven better than Ocean's Twelve, but that I couldn't comment on the ones I had not seen.
----------------
I wish I had more to say so I could have a reason to post twice a day.
Coupla things
JIM: I think you mean George Lincoln Rockwell, if you're referring to the founder of the American Nazi Party who was assassinated by his own second-in-command in 1967.
PENGUIN LOVERS: It's all a conspiracy to sell more videos, people. The next movie will be "April of the Penguins," then "May of the Penguins" and so on through December. Why stop there? Because in January and February the penguins all fly to the South of France for vacation.
That's ridiculous. I found Marusek's novel completely accessible (and not just a little enjoyable although you could tell it's a first novel and he's not yet figured out how to end one properly). The NYT's reviewer doesn't need a Doctorate in Microbiology, he needs to attend a course in remedial English.
Itzkoff's (the reviewer) list of ten favourites is telling. He's hit the classics every SF survey course hits (Canticle, The Man in the High Castle, Cat's Cradle, R is for Rocket) to make it look like he has some depth and thrown in a graphic novel to seem a bit hip (The Watchmen. A great comic, but if he's looking for hipness he should have hit something rare and Japanese). The others raise an eyebrow. He has "Looking for Jake" by Mieville as one of his favourites. I've read it and the outstanding "The Tain" is enough to warrant the purchase but not to push the collection on to anyone's top ten list (Although Mieville's The Scar should be on everyone's list). The Twilight Zone Companion? Sure, I love the Twiligh Zone (old and even the new and The Outer Limits as well... I'm a B movie junkie so save the pity and pass me my direct-to-dvd methodone) but isn't putting a companion book on your top ten list a lot like reading coles notes for pleasure?
New Column in the NY Times
Thought this might be of interest (and maybe a good rebuttal or two, since several practioners of the art post hereabouts):
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/05/books/review/05itzkoff.html
Dave Itzkoff has a new Science Fiction column in the NY Times' Book Review.
The first column (linked above) is a review of David Marusek's COUNTING HEADS, but may be more notoriously noteworthy for the following quotes:
"I cannot do this in good conscience because if you were to immerse yourself in most of the sci-fi being published these days, you would probably enjoy it as much as one enjoys reading a biology textbook or a stereo manual. And you would very likely come away wondering, as I do from time to time, whether science fiction has strayed so far from the fiction category as a whole that, though the two share common ancestors, they now seem to have as much to do with each other as a whale has to do with a platypus."
And
"Of course, it is entirely possible that Marusek never set out to be the John Updike of the Asimov set; perhaps he simply intended "Counting Heads" to be an effective satire of life as we may someday know it, which it is, albeit one that might require upgrading your brain with the newest Intel microprocessor to comprehend fully. And that would be a shame, because I think Marusek could be the one sci-fi writer in a million with the potential to make an increasingly indifferent audience care about the genre again, and he could do it without compromising his voice or dumbing down his subject matter."
I wonder if Harlan knows anybody that's involved with next Summer's blockbuster hit "SNAKES ON A PLANE."
Just to clarify:
Meant Penny Arcade, the not-very-appealing performance "artist."
Have met her myself, and in the words of a British friend, "she's a bit of a woof."
People Harlan Ellison Probably Doesn't Know
"Penny Arcade"
Wrong. Trust me, you don't want to know the details. If, however, you're in a masochistic mood, look back a few months in the archives .
(My nominees for PHEPDK? Norman Lincoln Rockwell, Betty Paige, and Tupac Shakur.)
People Harlan Ellison Probably Doesn’t Know
Mrs. Stockmeyer (In From Out Of)
Ant & Dec
Toby Young
Penny Arcade
Xella Van Xandra and her cat, Xersus
Amanda LaPore
James St. James
Philippe de Montebello
Libby Pataki
J. Winthrop Aldrich III
Anna Matronic
Gedi Seboni
Nick Cave
Cuddles the Monkey
Richard Serra
Matchbook Romance
Lauren Weisberger
The late Miss Eleanor Velasco Thornton
I could, of course, be mistaken.
>Is there anyone HE doesn't know?<
I'll take a stab: Britney Spears
staging is for the birds
Todd:
Oddly enough, I've written at length about both films -- on DocumentaryFilms.net with regard to "Winged Migration":
http://www.documentaryfilms.net/Reviews/WingedMigration/
and I wrote a review of "March of the Penguins" for the same site, but the site owner was living in southern Mississippi and his apartment was destroyed by Katrina, so the only place my piece has appeared is on the good old Webderland board, here:
http://harlanellison.com/heboard/forum/viewtopic.php?t=59&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=885
I think your complaints are a little extreme, Todd. I was a little disappointed to learn about the "staging" of some of the "Winged Migration" sequences, too, but other than letting the cameras get close, the filmmakers were not making the birds behave differently from the way they actually would. The birds were doing pretty much everything they normally do. Everything that you see in "Winged Migration" actually happens, somewhere in the world, on a regular basis. So where's the lie in that?
There is far less "staging" of this sort in "March of the Penguins." The filmmakers simply didn't have the time or resources to "train" the birds the way they did with "Winged Migration." And they didn't need to; the penguins didn't perceive any threat from the humans and allowed them to get close naturally. What's more objectionable -- and it's hardly fatal, unless you're really sensitive about this sort of thing -- is the film's manipulation of human viewers, not the birds.
It's a gorgeous film, visually, in any case. Worth it just for that.
Is there anyone HE doesn't know? I mean, besides Bill Cosby and, maybe, just maybe, Jesus Christ? (Though I've heard on the grapevine that HE does have His blood on his hands.)
And speaking of which, can't HE write an "Adventures in the Screen Trade"-type book? Wouldn't you guys like to see that? Anyone? I'd pay for that book. Of course, I also paid for The DaVinci Code, so what the fuck do I know?
March of the Penguins
Todd,
March of the Penguins was not "staged", the animals weren't trained nor am I aware that any part of the film was "set up". The 'making of" special on the DVD tells how the filmmakers spent a year in Antarctica and I think 9 months of that filming the penguins. I believe they were able to approach so closely because the penguins didn't see them as a threat. The documentary also discusses some captive penguins at the site who were their first test subjects for the underwater shots. (It wasn't clear to me if these were the only penguins they used to demonstrate the feeding behaviour).
It's a fantastic flick, highly suggest you see it. In addition to being a fascinating documentary, it also demonstrated to me more than most feature films how the right narrative and music really work to help make a film engaging.
Cheers
Peg
Dear Stephen:
Checking through our files, we don't have copies of:
ITALIAN:
BRIVIDI D'AVTORE
IL MEGLIO DI GALAXY 1
GALAXY #82
GALAXY #99
If you still have any of these books/magazines available, please let us know the price. We can talk money or trade.
With very kind regards--Susan
...and yes, I realize that many nature documentaries are 'staged'....but I'm talking about birds that were raised and trained to perform for the camera and allow small planes to come close to them while in flight. I don't mean the kind of staged where flies are tossed into a spider's web to watch it attack.
-TODD
Speaking of the Penguin movie.....not having seen it, can someone advise whether this is a true-nature filmed movie or something staged? The same person filmed WINGED MIGRATION of which I heard a ton of good things, and when I watched it I found it quite fascinating in regard to how he got such good shots of the boids in flight.
Then I watched the DVD extras, and for the first time, such extras ruined a movie for me: I had no idea that the birds were raised as 'actors' for this film. These are not natural birds in migration: they are trained and ready for their close-up.
Though fascinating in it's own way, that saddened me and I gave away the DVD. The hubbub over the penguin movie would normally intrigue me, but not after the cheat of WINGED MIGRATION.
-TODD
Dear Dad,
Fell off my chair laughing at that email. That was great.
I promise to share my copy of "March Of The Penguins" to put in the SUV's DVD player for all the kids to watch while you drive. Because as far as I'm concerned, it was the best movie out of any of them anyway, and will keep us from fighting on the turnpike.
Plus, they accepted their awards carrying big stuffed penguins and made authentic sounding penguin noises in their speech. They were so cool.
The Good Child,
Shelly
Harlan and the Sorority Girl (at his request)
(No, Susan, not like that). Recounted, word for word.
"Steve Barber
- Wednesday, February 22 2006 9:7:40
Film Notes 101(Douglas H, thank you for pointing out Robert had included BLADE RUNNER on his list. My error, and props to Robert for including it.)
ANECDOTAL MEMORIES - THE FIRST TIME I MET HARLAN (made relevant by the topic of movies and such):
The first time I met Harlan Ellison was many years ago when I was an unsophisticated young whelp attending USC. Harlan was the guest speaker in Arthur Knight's "Sex in Cinema" class that afternoon. Harlan was doing his legendary college rant involving Dachau and the ignorance of college students, especially those taking film classes. As he spoke his eyes kept drifting to the back of the auditorium, after which he would glance at Arthur with a puzzled expression.
Finally, Arthur interrupted Harlan and began to chastise one of the other students for reading a newspaper instead of listening to the talk. Her response was (something to the effect of) "when he says something significant I'll listen", delivered with all the bravado and sneer only a college-level privileged-class blond twenty-something can muster, and she finished her response with a dramatic relifting of the paper to resume her reading.
They carried her out in a body bag, once we found all the parts.
Oddly enough, I don't remember the film shown that day, but I DO remember Harlan. "
Hope this replenishes the memories, though my college career was far longer ago than either of us care to admit.
And Cris cheerfully looks forward to dining with y'all and points out that "maybe, just maybe" the rain will abate, otherwise I may need to cower simperingly in the doorway, begging for handouts.
Yr Carparker,
Steve
You know, if Harlan Ellison were as primed to go off like nitroglycerin as often as legend alleges, his heart would have exploded years ago. How could he have lived so long?
Rumors. Ninety-eight percent bullshit, most of the time.
And Ben,
Hey, it happens. You need to simply clarify and then ignore. Remember: what are they going to do to you, type you to death? Even Harlan can't make you bleed from thousands of miles away, rumors notwithstanding.
Like water off a duck's back, baby.
Chuck
Todd, leave DVG alone.
Eric, leave Benjamin Winfield alone.
Jim Davis, leave Eric and DVG alone.
You kids better not make me pull the car over and come back there.
Dad
It was refreshing to see a decent Oscars. I have to say that George Clooney's guilty liberal speech was really stupid and really naive. Yea, George, Hollyweird gave a sista an Oscar in 1939, for playing a maid...great liberal stretch of time later, and Halle Berry finally ends the historical jinx. Yea, those Hollyweird libs sure are giving.
Right Wing radio will be beating this to death, and rightly so.
----------
The same Hollyweird liberals give a music award to a bunch of backward rap hacks. Yea, never give Scorsese and Oscar, but we will annoint 3-6 Mafia the kings of movie music. The white liberals all smile, when they get their award. Al Sharpton was right to throw lightening bolts at this travesty, today.
I like rap, but shitttt.
------------
George Carlin's recent rap is so dark, so anarchistic, so amazing, the greatest single rant this guy will ever do. Anarchy and dark intent, at a world that deserves nothing better. This is the acid in the face, after a Chomsky speech.
STEVE BARBER;
I've gone blank. "The recently recounted rude sorority girl story." Please refresh and recount me. Why don't I remember this?
Tell your most excellent wife that MY most excellent wife and I will be taking her (and you, if we must) to dinner at the Argentinian restaurant in the veeeeery near future.
Yr. pal, Harlan
BRAD STEVENS:
I did, and he was magnificent. A dear little man with great tarsier eyes and a gentle manner. I watched him work the set an entire day as he shot the scene I had written for his silent cameo. (Silent: except for the "trapdoor" at the scene's ending.) Whatta delight he was! Thoroughly professional, accomplished, and charming beyond the telling of it. This was a grand moment in my early tv/film career and--as was the case with my meeting Gloria Swanson and Wally Cox and Janet Blair and John Ireland and Suzy Parker and Joan Blondell and a raft of others who LOVED my writings for them--it was some of the swellest times I ever had in a venue not known for its lambent sweetness or outgoing generosity.
I miss those times.
Yr. pal, Harlan
>I didn't mean to spark an entire goddamn DISCUSSION about it.<
You mean, you don't like having your attitude policed? You're in the wrong forum, pallie.
See, this is why my visits here have been less frequent. Online discussion is a constant source of strife for me. I have the mysterious, innate ability to create posts with easily misinterpreted tones.
I wasn't trying to "tease the watchdog", David. I had just slogged through one of Carlin's darker stand-ups on DVD, and I was in a vulnerable state of mind. Harlan's passing comment of gratitude made an impression on me, for some reason. I didn't mean to spark an entire goddamn DISCUSSION about it.
Haggis
Really glad Haggis won, since I was a big fan of "Due South" & "EZ Streets".
An example
Our Host has acquired a reputation. Or several, actually, but the one I want to address here is the one where he's a cranky, volatile tightly-wrapped-bundle-of-anger, a walking time-bomb with a short fuse which smolders constantly, waiting only for some hapless (they're always hapless, at least the way they tell it) Innocent to look at him the wrong way for full ignition and explosion.
Hah. And again, I say "Hah."
Let me recount an Ellisonian Legend, one which was commonly held to be gospel by fandom, and which I believed (if not fondly) for years. Once upon a time, there was this anthology, an original one, edited by Ed Ferman (then editor and publisher of F&SF) and Barry Malzberg (then, as now, a fine writer who has also done plenty of editing) and titled _Final Stage: The Ultimate Science Fiction Anthology_. It was published in 1973 by Charterhouse, a small imprint of a larger publisher, David McKay.
Ferman and Malzberg asked a number of the best writers in the field at the time for the ultimate story on specific subjects, said subjects being tailored to their own specialities - Asimov wrote the ultimate robot story, Silverberg the ultimate alternate worlds story, and so on.
The ultimate sex story was a twofer, since there are (last I checked) two genders. Joanna Russ wrote one, Harlan the other.
Skip ahead now to the completion of the book, Ferman and Malzberg turning it in, and the commencement of actual publication. At some point, perhaps from the very beginning, Charterhouse's acquiring editor, Carol Rinzler (who was editor Ferman's cousin, by the way), decided that a) sf readers were dumb and unsophisticated, unable to read anything other than basic English; b) sf writers were pretty much comic book people and thus in need of dumbing-down so that the moronic sf readers could understand what they were saying; and c) she was the one to do it.
Can you see where this legend is leading? Let me elucidate further. She picked up the first three stories off the pile to begin rewriting. They happened to be by Poul Anderson, Robert Silverberg, and Harlan Ellison. Let me quote from my own aritcle about the book, originally published in the Summer 2005 BULLETIN of the Science-Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America:
"What was actually done to the stories? In the case of the Ellison, I can give personal, if anecdotal, evidence: in 1975 I obtained copies of the original Charterhouse edition as well as the Penguin reprint from that year. I sat down with pen in hand and listed the alterations in the text, ranging from simple changes in punctuation to wholesale re-ordering of sentences and the excision of entire paragraphs. When I was done, the list covered both sides of two and a half legal-sized pages. Ellison's own list of changes runs a dozen letter-sized pages. I think that qualifies as extensive, by any definition.
"At this point, after having seen the documentation, I'd like to address some of the mythology that surrounded this book when it came out, especially in the fan press. I'd heard, and for years had believed, that Ellison brought suit against Charterhouse and Rinzler on behalf of himself and the other injured authors involved; that, as befit his reputation in fandom, he had gone ballistic, threatening and demanding reparations, causing the demise of Charterhouse and Rinzler's resignation. This is demonstrably and provably untrue.
"Ellison did, in fact, bring suit against David McKay, Charterhouse's parent company – a small claims suit for a little over $100 to cover phone calls, secretarial fees, and photocopying costs, all relating to the costs of documenting the situation and informing Anderson and Silverberg, as well as the two editors, of what was going on. What's more, in all the correspondence Ellison had with Rinzler and Charterhouse, he was courteous, polite, and professional. So much for legends."
Indeed. If Harlan was so prone to histrionics, so close to the abyssal edge at all times so that the least provocation would send him screaming and ranting, you'd have thought that THIS would have done it. It didn't.
My advice is, no matter what the circumstance, if somebody comes to you with a Harlan-breathing-fire story that they themselves have not witnessed, ignore it. If they say it happened to them, shake a handful of salt on it before you swallow it.
Harlan is more than capable of telling horror stories about himself, and has done so in the past on any number of very public occasions (ask him to tell the Dr. Shedd story sometime, or the Seaview model story). Master of Invective he certainly is, but Gentleman in the strictest since he certainly is as well. Harlan will tell you when he's been a Monster; all else is, at best, dubious.
Good Manners
I have met Harlan a number of times at the sadly departed Dangerous Visions and Change of Hobbit bookstores and at Comicon where the number of alleged 'fast guns' almost outstrips the hygenically-challenged fans that crowd the halls. Harlan, has always been polite and cordial to me under all these circumstances.
I did see him do one of his lengendary one man performances at Comiccon and the thing that stood out was the attempt by the video camera operators to bate Harlan into a diatribe that would "make good video" when replayed through the hotel closed circuit system.
Harlan walked down the aisle to the camera boys and said softly "You will have to do better then that, to get a "Harlan Story". The geek boys tried to avert his gaze, the crowd remained quiet and Mr. Ellison went on to entertain and educate in his classic style.
Xenogenisis indeed.
DVG: I am SO inviting you to my next Oscar party!
The biggest shocker from last night? It wasn't the winner for Best Picture or Best Supporting Actress (I love Rachel Weisz to pieces, but Catherine Keener was robbed), but, rather, the news that Robert Altman underwent a heart transplant eleven years ago. The man is one of the genuinely great artists of our time, and we're lucky to have had him on loan for so long. (True, there is PRET-A-PORTER to reckon with, but GOSFORD PARK more than makes up for it.) Of course, it would have been sweeter if, instead of giving him a lifetime achievement statue, the Academy had actually awarded Best Director or Picture to any one of the dozen masterpieces he's helmed over the years; but in this life, we'll take what we can get.
I did indeed see both "Crash" and "Brokeback Mountain." Neither one seemed, to me, in my opinion, myself, personally, to be interesting or well-done.
I am very interested in seeing Capote, about which I have heard many good things.
I'd also like to see "Good Night & Good Luck."
I will not watch a Spielburg film. If you find this morally suspect, that's your problem. Allow me to point you in the direction of the nearest cassette copy of "The Color Purple" and you can knock yourself out.
The vomit-inducing coverage, per and post, of the Oscars, and resulting arguments about a closed system vote process riddled with politics and gilded with bad taste seems a worthy target of scorn.
Thank you for leaping to your conclusions, and please do excuse this second post.
Ditto...
... to what Loftus said. Word for word.
I've often found that the people who complain about the prickliness of others are generally those who do the poking to begin with. People who develop the reputation for prickle tend to become targets by those moronic emmeffers who think it's manly to call them out. The old "fastest gun in the west" syndrome, and it's usually the loser in this tournament who describes the winner as "an ass" in some lame attempt to regain some of the lost bravado.
Harlan has always been the epitome of a gentleman whenever we've crossed paths (me in complete obscurity, him the focal point of the room's attention). I've only seen him rude upon a single occasion (the recently recounted rude college sorority girl story). He's been gracious at book signings, focuses completely and fascinatedly upon whomever is speaking to him, and is always glad to give compliments and kudos to others for their efforts.
Then again, maybe the legend has its worth. I would venture to say that not many untrustworthy sorts would dare cross swords with him, and those that do often are warned against it. Only an fool would go poking a finger at a quiescent cougar, and only a bigger fool would blame the cat for tearing his head off.
Harlan gives better than he receives, and there aren't a whole lot of those sorts left in Hollywood. It just ain't that sort of town.
(And to be perfectly honest, he's got me acting on good behavior these days. Even though she hasn't yet met him in person, if we ever get divorced my wife has stated she gets Harlan in the settlement.)
Steve B
DVG, "...neither Brokeback nor Crash seemed particularly interesting or well done. I am looking forward to seeing Capote, however.
Munich goes straight into my bin of films I refuse to watch on general principle."
So, DVG, why would we even care to have an post-Oscar discourse with you if you only base your opinion on how some movies "seem" or on the fact that you hate a director so much that you will refuse to see anything he does.
So let's see, you didn't see BROKEBACK MTN or CRASH (as they don't 'seem' interesting or well done to you), you haven't seen MUNICH and never will. You haven't seen CAPOTE (a terrific film) and you make no mention of GOOD NIGHT, AND GOOD LUCK but we can all assume you missed that one too. So, whatever the opinion is on Oscar discourse, I'm pretty sure that you just logged on to say "I'm bored by discussion about things I haven't seen/done."
Y'know, on that note, I must now state that I do not want to be involved in any discussion about how the flesh in my nether regions gets stretched out of shape when I give birth. Nope, don't wanna talk about it. Please don't bring it up.
-TODD
Harlan - While doing some research for a Buster Keaton-related project I'm working on, I consulted the filmography in Tom Dardis' book KEATON: THE MAN WHO WOULDN'T LIE DOWN, and noticed that you had written a 1964 episode of BURKE'S LAW in which the great Buster played the lead role. Did you ever meet him?
do not tease the watchdog
> Strange. After hearing (and reading) the misanthropic,
> bile-bloated rants of George Carlin and his disciples,
> it's almost startling to see a quiet, low-key sign of
> geniality from the alleged Master Cynic himself.
Geniality there is plenty, I'm sure. But in this case, it's a simple expression of good manners, and perhaps even gratitude.
My wife has a very different image of Harlan Ellison from that of most people who have heard more about but seen or encountered less of the man.
Since I am often not available on those rare occasions when he tries to call me on the phone, she has spoken to him several times, and she has always found him a perfect gentleman, so his reputation in some circles is a mystery to her. (I'm the one he's said bad words to.)
It should be perfectly obvious that people tend to get the response they expect . . . or deserve.
The only thing worse than the Oscars is having to sit through a week of post-Oscars discussions.
That said, neither Brokeback nor Crash seemed particularly interesting or well done. I am looking forward to seeing Capote, however.
Munich goes straight into my bin of films I refuse to watch on general principle. This bin also contains every other film by Spielberg as well as every film ever so much as breathed on by Quentin Tarrantino and/or Oliver Stone.
Todd,
I, too, felt that BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, though a good movie, was not deserving of a nomination. I am curious, though...you seem to have more experience with what constitutes a "realistic look at gay love". Does your wife know?
I thought Jon Stewart did a pretty good job for his first time out. I thought the jokes were funny, but the audience didn't seem to warm up to him until his "Cheney shot Bjork" joke. Someone mentioned that it would be better if the Oscars were hosted by a "local", and I think that's probably true.
Lily Tomlin and Meryl Streep were fantastic.
"Dame Judi Dench took out my eye."
Will Ferrel and Steve Carell looked good.
It was an okay show. I'm not going to demand my money back, but this one won't be the one everyone remembers ten years from now.
>Not that I care much about the Academy and it's decisions, but I'm thrilled that CRASH won. <
Todd, how can you be thrilled about something you don't care for much?
Admit it, you love the Oscars. It's ok.
"The Culture Of The Book"
I didn't catch the name, but it might have been one of the writers of Brokeback Mountain. I loved what he said about preserving and continuing the "culture of the book." Great words.
Sorry, Keith; never met Bill Cosby.
-he
Not that I care much about the Academy and it's decisions, but I'm thrilled that CRASH won.
A) I enjoyed it. There are many haters, and that's because they just think it's a message-film cramming it's love-everbuddy story down their throats...but what I saw was a cleverly acted and scripted movie that made me laugh at surprising moments.
B) This year's awards were blessing an average movie in BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN. Sorry, but handing the Oscar to that movie would have been the wrong thing, because it's a piffle. It does not present a realistic look at gay love.....I never felt the love; I never felt anything. SIX FEET UNDER was a more realistic take on gay love. I respect Ang Lee and his work, and I'm happy he won the Oscar...THE ICE STORM is one of my favorites.....but BROKEBACK was being pushed for more than the film that it was, and I'm glad for the surprise loss.
Then again, as I said before, I don't care much about the Academy and it's decisions....but at least tonight, I smile for a clever movie that was miles better than BROKEBACK and even last year's MILLION DOLLAR BABY (also written by Haggis, but not as clever and funny).
-TODD
Shopping for Books
Thank you Mr. Ellison and the others on the board for the help. I have checked the list, and sent off a check for HERC with a order going out for the 50th Edition of the Essential Ellison to join the original Nemo edition. I am looking forward to the Glass Teat reissue, The Dream Corridor collection and anything else you have up your sleeve and ready to share.
The CNN website, posted a nice article on Ms Butler. A few days late but still very respectful of her and her works.
Dean Across the Bar...
Harlan, that's a move I suspect Ziggy didn't see coming. (or the Whately clan.) Nonetheless, I'd love to hear the hows and whys of that one day.
Having once been embarrassed by Mr. Stockwell in front of a *large* group of people, I'd *love* to hear that particular story.
well, going to see Bill Cosby tonight.
Harlan,
Your friendship with the fine actor Robert Culp is well known, but did you ever meet Bill Cosby? And if so, how did you guys hit it off? Hopefully, I sit and wait for your answer (until 5:50pm, PST, at which point I am away). You must have known Mr. Culp in the days of I-Spy, and I'd be surprised if you never met Bill Cosby.
-Keith
Neal J: same occurred to me just as I hit the send button (dang, I *knew* one of the shit-hot nitpickers here would pick me up on that!)
MARK:
Try our Webderland bookstore. Many of the titles you seek, in First Editions, for a lot less than the antiquarian dealers charge, are here to be bought, from Susan and
Yr. pal, Harlan
ASIDE TO JAY SMITH
Remind me some day to recount to you of the afternoon I grabbed Dean Stockwell with both fists,by the back of his shirt, and slung him as hard, as angrily, as intentionally intending to do as much damage as possible as I could, down the length of the old Beverly Glen neighborhood beer bar (long since vanished, expanded, and now called The Four Oaks Cafe). Back in the day. Between 1963 and '66. It was the sole occasion on which ever we met, before or since.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Mark: You can check amazon.com every now and then, they usually list books well before they are released. In Harlan's case there'll soon be a new HC edition of MIND FIELDS and DREAM CORRIDOR VOL. 2.
Stephen: The Italian Galaxy's have French-language articles in them? :-) Don't kid us.
spend-a-penny
upon initial examination, "micturated urine" appears a redundancy, but careful thought reveals otherwise
it's what we find ON us, as opposed to what remains IN us, innit?
at any rate, Ash, it sure is a funny thing to say/read,
gotta go,
Neal
Dean Stockwell on Battlestar Galactica
Just watched this week's episode on the Skiffy Channel ("Lay Down Your Burdens, Part 1") where Dean Stockwell played a small, but important role as a spiritual counselor to a very fraked-up Chief Tyrol. It read like a part crafted specifically for Harlan, especially its message about being responsible for yourself rather than handing your fate over to the uncaring gods or relying on them to make decisions or represent your moral or personal choices.
I enjoy and respect Dean, but I wonder how Harlan would have played it.
As Cavalaxis, Cindy and I often ask each other, "WWHD?"
Dear Benjamin,
I'm sorry too, but all I really got out of the thank you note was that Harlan's mom raised him right. I suppose I am just too obtuse to see the deep inner meaning here.
Laughing,
Shelly
P.S. It's possible you lost me on the "nihilism" section.
foreign editions of Harlan's work
Harlan,
Here is a list of the books I found so far. Sorry it took so long. There may be up to a dozen others scattered around, I'll keep looking. Let me know if you're still interested.
Stephen
German
=======================================================
The Outer Limits (Die Unbekannte Dimension) Band 1 ("Soldat" von Harlan Ellison)
Mefisto In Onyx
Nie wieder Krieg ("Basilisk")
Der silberne Korridor
Damon Knight's Collection 5 Neue Science Fiction Stories ("Zerbrochen wie ein glasernes Flaschenteufelchen")
Playboy Science Fiction: Ein Junge und sein Hund (2 copies)
Science Fiction Stories 35
Science Fiction Stories 38
Science Fiction Stories 61
25 Jahre Thriller Jubiläums-Lesebuch ("Das Winseln geprügelter Hunde")
French
=======================================================
territoires de l'inquietude ("mal de solitude" par Harlan Ellison)
dangereuses visions tome 1
dangereuses visions tome 2
Fiction science-fiction insolite fantastique #197 ("Viens a moi, non dans la blancheur de l'hiver...") [with Roger Zelazny]
Fiction science-fiction insolite fantastique #227 ("Encrypte")
le saint Detective Magazine ("Une affaire d'honneur")
du pays de la peurainsi sera-t-il
La Frontiere Avenir anthologie de la Science-Fiction américaine d'aujourd'hui
La Bète Qui Criait Amour Au Coeur (x2)
Hitler peignait des roses
Gentleman junkie (Humanos Associés)
La Chanson Du Zombie
Italian
=======================================================
Brividi d'avtore ("Un vecchio stanco" ~ Harlan Ellison)
il meglio di Galaxy 1 ("Un Obolo, Dagli Occhi Del Morto") (x2)
Galaxy #99 ("Rencontre avec Harlan Ellison" une interview de Patrice Duvic)
Galaxy #82 ("Le jour du pteranodon") [with Keith Laumer]
IO, ROBOT (illustrated by Mark Zug)
Urania presenta Millemondi Autunno 1996 ("Dura Da Scontare" Harlan Hellison [sic])
Vic & Blood
Le Città che Ci Aspettano (Prima Edizione Oscar Mondadori, 1977)
Spanish
=======================================================
Visiones Peligrosas II (Antologia de Harlan Ellison)
UK
=======================================================
The Beast That Shouted Love At The Heart Of The World
All The Sounds Of Fear
Approaching Oblivion
Shatterday
Dangerous Visions 3
Again, Dangerous Visions 1
Again, Dangerous Visions 2
Locus SF News & Review #486 (July 2001)
Reissues of our Esteem Host
I might have missed a few postings, but could someone please bring me up to speed on what works by Harlan are being reissued and where I can place an order. I have the majority of Harlan's works but they are well-thumbed and read paperbacks. Thank you to any who can provide an answer.
unremarkable yet sincere remark
What gets me out of bed in the morning is the warm expanse of freshly micturated urine.
Roger,
Let me know if you're interested in Cerebus.
I've got some early issues, including #1, that I'm getting rid of.
I stopped at a comic book convention here in Des Moines today and filled some holes in my collection and got a few leads on filling the rest of the holes in my Aragones/Groo comics. I got a few old Twilight Zone issues and stumbled across some old Rocky and Bullwinkle ones which I snatched up.I also found an old issue of Amazing Stories which had the collaboration of Harlan and Samuel Delaney on "Power of the Nail".I did pick that one up also. Harlan would you have any info for us on the new edition of "Partners in Wonder" which will have some new stories this time around? I'm looking forward to seeing you and Susan soon in Minneapolis.Take care.
Roger
Shelly,
My comment "puzzled" you? The fact that the same man who produced THE WHIMPER OF WHIPPED DOGS could make such an unremarkable yet sincere remark about the possiblity of a decent portion of humanity (nihilism is like a fashion these days; it's "in" to be hateful), encourages me to get out of bed in the morning. I'm sorry, but you misinterpreted the tone of my post.
Harlan, please accept my most sincere condolences at the loss of another friend. I was shocked to hear about the death of Octavia Butler. I had the pleasure of hearing her speak at the Scottsdale Center for the Performing Arts over a decade ago.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/03/03/america/web.obits.butler.php
http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/nation/14010232.htm
http://www.calendarlive.com/books/cl-et-butler3mar03,0,813811.story?coll=cl-books
http://www.slate.com/id/2137269/
Laff-a-lot
If anybody on the US West Coast is curious about what's currently tickling the British funny bone, you may want to see Tommy Tiernan and Bill Bailey at UCLA - details below.
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/page.asp?RelNum=6784
thanks
Rob
Dear Benjamin,
Kate wrote a sweet and sincere fan letter and Harlan graciously thanked her. Being a cynic does not preclude being a nice person, nor a polite one. Your comment really puzzled me.
Peacefully,
Shelly
A recent "image" search for HE finds a bunch of Terminator links + a paperback copy (which I don't have) with a major plug from Richard Dawson??? Where is the shame---and how can I get one?
"Sometimes I forget how nice so many people can be."
Strange. After hearing (and reading) the misanthropic, bile-bloated rants of George Carlin and his disciples, it's almost startling to see a quiet, low-key sign of geniality from the alleged Master Cynic himself.
Thank you, Kate.
Sometimes I forget how nice so many people can be.
Respectfully, Harlan Ellison
Why I Like Mr. Ellison
1. His way with words -- the man swings. No doubt about it.
2. He doesn't B.S. Take it or leave it: it is what it is. In this world of PC and BS, he always rings true.
3. His good heart: he rages against what he believes is wrong, and always takes a stand on the side of what he believes to be the right, just and noble cause -- and doesn't care if it wins him popularity or not. A singular man.
4. He bothers with us -- he doesn't have to, you know.
5. As a Sinatra fan, can I just add this: I love the way he feels a sense of loss over not being able to enjoy Sinatra's music because of Sinatra's bad behavior. Yeah, I love Sinatra's music; but he often behaved very badly. I can listen to the music and enjoy it. But I didn't have that encounter that Mr. Ellison did -- which was, to put it mildly, a rude, perplexing and awful experience. But the fact that Mr. Ellison still admits to having had a fondness for the music (prior to the experience) and feeling the loss and "pain" over its absence in his life due to those bad memories, makes him tops in my book. How many of us can admit the talent of those who treat us unfairly and irrationally? Again, a singular man.
Mr. Ellison, I read your site often, but rarely post. But I think you're very special.
Thanks for letting me bend your ear.
Green cheese, anyone?
The subject of Ellison references in comics reminds me of a short story (with illustrations) that appeared in the 1981 2000AD Annual. The story was called 'Bang! Bang! said the Green Cheese Man', and the first person narrator went by the name 'Harlan Ellis'. As I recall, not so much a superhero, as a wheeler-dealer involved in selling off the Moon or something like that.
Google only gives me the 2000AD site as proof that I did not imagine this. Am I the only person who remembers this story? Anybody have more info?
Since we're on the subject, I vaguely recall that, after Harlan's interview in The Comics Journal, one of the people he'd made some kind of negative comment about created a super villain who was said to be based on Harlan. I believe that this character appeared in a DC comic. Does this ring any bells?
Thanks for the response, Harlan! It was just that scene that made me say, "Hey, waitaminute, didn't I hear once that Dreyfuss was doing Ellison in this movie?" For a second, I thought that you had actually dubbed "El buffo!" during some session where Dreyfuss was unavailable.
I was also struck by your voice and words streaming from his lips during the scene where Marsha Mason interrupts him in his room while he is desperately practicing his role with hump and limp.
-TODD
If we're going with comic book characters, I'd have to say that, other than that narrator guy in Dream Corridor, the character most based on Harlan would be Harlequin Ellis in Justice League of America #89. Just a hunch there though.
The internet is living proof that no matter what a twisted sexual deviant you are, you have company. You could be into having "relations" with goats on fire and the only question the search engine would prompt you with would be "What type of goat?"
Warning Label
Okay.
First Rich said (over on the other boards): "I was wearing galoshes when I consummated my marriage."
Then Duane rejoined: "What if I'm married, and instead of having sex with another woman (or man), I get into a leather harness, fasten a chain to my private parts and allow a riding lawnmower to drag me randomly around the back yard by my wang? Technically, that's not adultery either, but my wife and the neighbors may have something to say about it."
(And, for the faint of heart, I won't offer any quotes at all from his "Volkswagen" note.)
Finally, after all seemingly died down, our beloved host emerges from the shadows to detail for us that "Ricky TOLD ME he was channeling me, especially in the scene where he declares he sleeps with the window open, summer and winter, morning and night, el buffo!"
*Ahem*
As a member in good standing -- and self-appointed Charge d'Affairs -- of the "visual" artists contingent and anyone else with an active imagination, can we please get warning labels (PG, R, XXX) on this sort of thing?
I may not sleep for a month.
TODD:
You heard true. Ricky TOLD ME he was channeling me, especially in the scene where he declares he sleeps with the window open, summer and winter, morning and night, el buffo!
Some days I feel so famous I can't even get outta bed.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Harlan as Howard? Nah.
Take it from me, guys. Howard the Duck is not based on Harlan. Howard is Steve Gerber. Shorter, with feathers, and smoking a stogie instead of a cigarette, but still, it's Steve. This is why not one else can write the character worth a damn.
Besides, Harlan is already a superhero. He's Harlan Ellison. Crissakes.
MICKEY/HARLAN
Harlan, I was re-reading THE 3 MOST IMPORTANT THINGS IN LIFE today, and I had one of those wonderful ideas. "If the publishers of this book had the money, they ought to bind in a record, one of those little plastic jobbies, so you could hear my spec*ta*cular Mickey imitation."
Well, that was in the old days.
Could you do the voice for Webderland, if Rick is fine with it, just for laughs? Most of us could easily produce an appropriate file if you gave us a recording. What do you say?
Harlan once told me
that he was the direct inspiration for the Umpa Lumpa.
We were on a blimp at the time, and the rarified atmosphere combined with the fact that we were both drinking HUGE quantities of Champagne (the real stuff from the Himalayas, not that French shit), may make my memory of this partiular incident a bit shakey, but there you are. It was shortly after Susan got her Blimp Pilot's license, so it must have been in 1994. That's as close as I can come to providing details about this episode.
-Keith
I Can't Believe I'm Having This Conversation
It would be dangerous to compare him to that other Canadian Superhero, Puck.
(Shrug) I think he has more in common, at least in terms of speech patterns, with Green Arrow.
Signed, the Jewish Bouncing Boy
Harlan the Superhero
If he was Canadian, I would have gone more towards Harlan as an inspiration for Wolverine...
No Brad...Harlan inspired the Mighty Thor (the 70s take). Also Michael Corleone, Lando Calrissian, and D-Day in Animal House.
Harlan the Duck?
Todd mentioned how Richard Dreyfuss may have based his character in THE GOODBYE GIRL on Harlan. (Or was it Neil Simon, this character's creator, who based it on Harlan?) I recently read the Marvel Essentials collection of Steve Gerber's HOWARD THE DUCK, the first time I'd read this stuff since I was a kid, and I couldn't help thinking that Howard might have been inspired by Harlan.
IN SYMPATHY
My sincerest sympathy to the families, fellow writer friends and to all concerned on the recent deaths of two icons in creativity...one in letters ... the other in film.
OCTAVIA BUTLER, sf writer
DARREN MCGAVIN, actor/director, known throughout the world as KOLCHAK...THE NIGHT STALKER from the TV series of the 1970's.
I was just watching my copy of The Goodbye Girl (the original film, not the teevee remake starring Flap and some sitcom mom)and as I watched Richard Dreyfuss wonderfully chewing up the celluloid I vaguely recall something I either read in a Harlan essay or heard him mention in one of his talks about Dreyfuss basing his character on Harlan himself.
It is a distant memory that I am barely dredging up from the unused percentage of my brain that contains distant memories and dreams that fade upon waking, but I could swear I once heard Harlan state this in a talk and I'm not sure if it was in jest or not.
This is the first time I've seen this movie in almost 20 years....and I'll be damned if I haven't been reminded of Harlan in many a scene. Am I to be committed to Bedlam, or did I hear/read true?
-TODD
Harlan, Susan and all -
This is the best tribute to Ms. Butler I've read in the last few days. It's not just a bio, but a tribute to the person. Worth registering as a user if you need to...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/27/AR2006022701585.html
Figures the Post would get it right.
(Harlan, Susan - If you can't get registered let me know and I'll get you a copy.)
Robert Altman sums up the role of the screenwriter
Robert Altman was just interviewed on UK television (as part of BBC2's excellent The Culture Show). His comments about the screenwriter's role are so wonderfully sarcastic that I couldn't resist posting them here:
"Screenwriters don't understand what it is they're supposed to do. They're supposed to write the skeleton or the basis of the film, so we know what set to go to, what time of the morning to shoot, or what time at night, and things like that. And if they want to have it done exactly word for word, I think you would see a lot of really bad pictures".
Butler & another
There's a very interesting memoir of reading Octavia Butler in the Cleveland Plain Dealer today. The author, a black woman, talks about the SF "old boys club." Harlan gets a mention, which gave me rather mixed feelings -- nice to see him mentioned, not so nice to see him included in the "old boys club" that excludes black women. And the author seems to be unaware of Chip Delany's being black, since she seems to think there were no black writers in the field when Butler started.
But still well worth reading at http://tinyurl.com/fmxhq
Sure, whatever you say. I don't even know who you are.
Last Word on this
Duane, exact quote: "The AXE bass is a GENE SIMMONS AXE BASS. I own the phrase "Axe." would be like Steve Jobs saying "This is an Apple Computer, I run Apple" and thinking somehow he runs a treadmill that powers it. It is no different than John Carpenter's new habit of adding his name to a movie. It becomes part of the title. Gene may have put it wrong, I 'll give you that, but he's always been high on self promotion. (not that it improves the music). If you have an agenda or point to make, you can take any sentence out of context and run with it. Paste "GENE SIMMONS AXE BASS" or simply "AXE BASS" wherever you see fit...and no, Apple Computer has nothing to do with Apple Records or the apples down at the corner store-it's simply a name. What about the Gore/internet thing??
various and sundry
It must be one terrific feeling to witness a unique talent a-borning . . . one that ALMOST makes up for seeing it snuff out long before its time. A sad week, indeed, but one that drives us back to the work that survives, and will undoubtedly move others to try it for the first time, to their great benefit.
Here's what I'm cooking up for next week:
March 2 is the birthday of Theodore Geisel, which means Story Time for Grownups will feature stories of Dr. Seuss, at Grendel’s Coffee House, 729 E. Burnside, 503-595-9550, at 7:30 p.m. on Monday, March 6, 2006. Admission is free.
From Mulberry Street to McElligot’s Pool, from Yertle to Thidwick, from Horton to the Grinch, from the Cat in the Hat to Bartholomew Cubbins, Dr. Seuss introduced the world to an array of unforgettable characters. He played -- gloriously -- with words, took us On Beyond Zebra, whipped up Scrambled Eggs Super, and actually got us to taste Green Eggs and Ham.
Later this month, I'll read the role of Marius Byleveld in Athol Fugard’s “The Road to Mecca” at Mt Hood Rep’s Readers Theatre on March 20, and will play defense counsel Herbert Marks in NW Classical Theatre’s production of “In the Matter of J. Robert Oppenheimer,” March 16 through April 15.
Come to Grendel's on Monday evening, have a cuppa joe or tea and a cookie, and relive your childhood. Hear some old favorites, and just possibly, be surprised by a Dr. Seuss tale you've never read or heard before.
In April, I have this crazy idea of reading some of my favorite pieces by a fellow . . . oh, what's his name? . . . Ellison?
as i type I am visiting friends around the corner from the Winchester Mystery House....Town and Country is gone, replaced by a faux European-village apartment and retail development called Santana Row, with shops like Gucci and Burberry and luxury condos and fashionable restaurants. The tacky looking Century movie theaters are still there altho they finally remodeled the interiors some (the 21, withe the biggest screen in the area, had been getting VERY run down.) T&C once had a wonderful bookstore called Books Inc, which is now so long gone some folks might not even remember; it closed soon after Barnes and Noble moved in nearby. You have to go twenty miles up the peninsula to find a real bookstore these days.
The area has gotten veery yuppified, but the tourist trap is still there.
Kristin
Winchester Mystery House
I grew up in the Santa Clara Valley in the 1960s and it seemed that 1 out of every 6 field trips were to the Winchester Mystery House, which was an isolated corner, that you reached by surface streets and whose closest neighbor was the funky Town and Country shopping center and a Doggie Diner at the corner.
They had three different tours of the place then each to differnt parts of the house going to rooms that had no doors, steps that lead no where all to keep the ghosts happy who Mrs. Winchester thought were victims of the families rifles. One year, they kept the place open on Holloween, where kids from all over the valley showed up in costume and besides the tour and some candy, one of the docent sat in a old fashion wicker chair and read Ray Bradbury's "Halloween Tree" to us. It was the best holloween of my childhood.
You are right, Harlan that as the area got built up, freeways butted up against the house, movie theaters popped up, and used car lots took away its semi-rural Addams Family charm and made it another tourist trap. But for awhile it was this wonderful spook stop for every kid in the valley.
REECE:
You are absolutely right; I was absolutely wrong. To my horror, to my absolute and utter amazement, only today, as I was writing the memorial piece about Estelle (Octavia) for LOCUS, and I reached the line in which I began to tell about first meeting her, I went back to my daily calendars, from 1972-forward, and not only couldn't find, in situ, any mention of Estelle . . . I couldn't even find a mention of the WGAw Open Door Program at which I taught for two years. I went over and over those desk calendar pages, with the most ridiculous bits of minutiae noted (movies seen, lunches with whom, dinners at which boite, and on and on), and there wasn't even a jot.
I thought I was losing my mind, even though I could REMEMBER the names of my students--Lonnie Chapman, who had lost a left eye in a gang fight and who wore an eye patch behind which, in the empty socket, he stored his stash--Dennis Pryor, who looked like an even more handsome version of Belafonte, who wanted desperately to be a writer, but who was too busy hustling to sit and do the work--hell, I even knew Dennis's kid, Darryl, who works in the Industry--and of course, Estelle--but why no mention?????
I thought I was losing my memory and substituting fantasy.
Then Susan went online and googled up some archives of Estelle, where she talked about the Open Door Program and, gawdamighty, it was (are you ready for this . . . ? . . . I know I wasn't) in 1969 that we met! Not mid-'70s as I'd thought, but only seven years after I'd gotten to Hollywood myself.
You were right, I was tabula rasa.
Gawdamighty!
----------------------------------------------------------------
I adore the Winchester Mystery House...or at least, I used to. I went there, almost as pilgrimage, every year from 1960 till oh perhaps ten years ago. Mrs. Winchester was a design genius, whose ways of solving problems, such as the arthritis that wouldn't permit her to use normal-sized stairs, were and are and always will be, some of the most astonishing architectural thinking of her time. But the surrounding area has been so mall-ified, and the House itself had become so commercialized, with that odious trinket shop, and the fucking videogames and pinball machines for the kids, so they won't have to accompany their moldy-fig parents on that "uncool trip through a creepy old house" ... that I haven't been back since. Really hurts. Like not being able to enjoy Sinatra's music after my run-in with him proved what a bullying shithead he was sometimes.
Your suggestion is wonderful, I'd love to do it, but who pays to get us there, and would it be done after Tourist Hours, and what and what and what and what...
Don't tease an old storyteller, kiddo, lessen' you got the goods.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Octavia Butler
Harlan: In your Sunday, February 26, 2006, 13:47:2 post you wrote, "Octavia ...whom I...first met in the mid-'70s...."
Excuse me? At the July, 1970, Pittsburgh convention you attended, you were on a panel discussion at which you mentioned some of the new writers you had worked with at that year's Clarion (I think it was) workshop. You singled out Octavia's work for special praise. I think you even termed one of her stories as "dynamite." You championed her work even sooner than you thought.
That smoke thing and the crossed up holy water ritual really made it special for me. Thank you Harlan. Always in love, friendly foil.
-------------
Eric is that eternal rubber ball, tottering off into the infernal netherworld where you always bounce, but never land.
The Ghost and Mr. Ellison
Harlan,
Could we coax you into leading a small but hardy band of adventurers thru the Winchester Mystery House culminating in a midnight reading by candlelight of your favorite blood curdling ghost story in the Seance room? Proceeds to your charity of choice.Seance as time and nerve permit!
Beginning Butler
Data gleaned from a VERY small pool (four subjects, including self) "proves" that people who read KINDRED first read no further, but those who read THE PARABLE OF THE SOWER first become lifelong fans.
Both are unforgettably powerful tales, but, for me, SOWER has much more of a gut-punch realism to it, and I was more emotionally invested in what the future held for Lauren (SOWER; TALENTS) than I was for Dana (KINDRED).
New York Times
Delayed, but well written.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/01/books/01butler.html
FRANK (as in Church):
Benisons upon thy curly li'l head.
RYAN:
Start with her novel KINDRED. Anything you choose thereafter will only concretize your awe of her talent. But do start with KINDRED. In print.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Octavia Estelle Butler stuff
From http://web.mit.edu/comm-forum/forums/octaviabutler.html. Links are active, and have great articles.
"Eight years ago, Butler participated in a series of discussions at MIT about science fiction, media and imagination."
"Devil Girl From Mars": Why I Write Science Fiction by Octavia Butler (posted Oct. 4, 1998)
Octavia Butler profile by Henry Jenkins (posted July 29, 1998)
Octavia Butler and Samuel Delany discussion (posted Aug. 29, 1998)
Browse to the link above, and from there, you can access these articles.
Harlan-
First, ran across these and thought you might like to see them:
http://www.al.com/unseen/
A cache of photos from the civil rights movement in Alambama was recently discovered by The Birmingham News and they've put them online for viewing.
Second, not having read any of Octavia Butler's work, do you have a suggestion for both a collection of short stories and for a novel as starting points?
Thanks.
--
Ryan Leasher
I beg your humble forgiveness, Harlan.
FRANK (CHURCH):
You read too fast, kiddo. It didn't say Octavia worked on "Star Trek," it said ELLISON worked on "Star Trek."
-he
I loved Darren McGavin. The thought of McGavin's Kolchak and George W. Bush locked in the same press conference room brings tears of happiness to my eyes. In fact, there's a long, LONG list of political figures & celebrities that I would have loved to have seen fall victim to Kolchak's razor-tongue: Michael Moore, Ayn Rand, Mel Gibson (and his dad), Tom Cruise, Jessica Simpson, Arnold Schwarzenegger, L. Ron Hubbard (he's a flesh-eating ghoul resurrected by Scientologists in one episode of NIGHT STALKER), Chuck Heston, Puritans, rampant feminazis...
Working on Star Trek is not the "main thing" Paul/Frank, but it's the one thing average readers are going to know about. Most people in this country, whether they are elitist or not, don't read science fiction. But most people do know about Star Trek, and while you may find it a "dumb artifact," it's generally considered a premiere property that has helped a lot of careers.
You notice the media always has to mention the fact that Octavia had worked on Star Trek, like that is the main thing that matters; not her prose, or her ways of opening a window to the African American experiece. No, being a writer on some dumb pop culture artifact is deemed more important.
Being elitist just seems more common sense, every day.
Octavia Butler
From today's LA Times obituary on Octavia Butler:
The focus on writing paid off when, at the age of 18, she earned a spot in a screenwriting program conceived by a group of writers that included Harlan Ellison, a legend in the science fiction genre whose work includes scripts for "Twilight Zone," "The Outer Limits" and "Star Trek." Although her screenplay was awful, Ellison saw wonderful prose in it and encouraged her to write a novel.
"She's one of my best discoveries," he told The Times in 1998.
Octavia Butler
Sad news...my most heartfelt condolences, Harlan. I remember my first exposure to Octavia Butler in high school with her novel Dawn. Strange, beautiful music, and a giant's voice snuffed far too soon.
My first exposure to Octavia Butler (yeah, I came to the party late) was Parable Of The Talents. It took a good long while to get my head all the way around that one, and I'm going to have to go back and read it again now.
**
"Mondo," paste the following link into your browser:
www.genesimmons.com/fanstories/letters1/index052.html
Search the phrase "I own the phrase 'Axe.'" Note the name of the person who wrote the phrase. Note the name of the website. Note the name of the website AGAIN.
And don't forget to have a nice day.
Octavia Butler
I can't believe this. I feel like we're all dwelling in the land of the dead.
We've lost many fine creators these past few years, but Octavia was _young._ By my standards anyway. Mid-fifties is still far too young to shuffle off the path.
I interviewed her late last year, a chat about her new novel. She talked about living alone, and how she defined family.
"I never married, so I've learned to interweave friends," she told me. "I'm a hermit myself, so I'm not a wonderful friend, but my characters can be. My characters can be much better friends and relatives than me. It's community that my characters build around themselves, whether they're in a relationship of family or not, all of them build a comm around themselves."
We're Octavia's community--we who knew her, read her, admired her. It's up to us to sit shiva.
Harlan, My sincere condolences for the loss of your friend, Octavia.
Also, when I asked you whether you thought it might be feasible to post your publishing contract as a guide for others on this site, I did so from a mistaken vantage point. At that moment, I thought the posting would help the tiny community on the Pavilion. Then, someone mentioned why would you give away a writing. My antennae went up. Harlan, I don't know if you've given any more thought about it, but I would respectfully request you NOT post the contract on this site for a number of reasons. A couple of which are...Millions who use the internet could access it; if someone were to use your contract verbatim and they ended up in litigation over the terms in your contract, you could potentially be dragged into the litigation; and, you certainly don't want someone accusing you of practicing law without a license or some bullshit as such (I speak with some authority on this issue having sat as chairperson of the committee on the unlicensed practice of law for the Bar where I've judged similar cases). I'm just trying to watch your back and not wanting to see any harm come to you when you were trying to do a bit of largesse. I'm sorry for even asking and I apologize. My best, Charlie
Quote of the Day - 23 September 1867
From a letter by Charles Dickens to Wilkie Collins, planning their collaborative story, "The Thoroughfare":
I have a general idea which I hope will supply the kind of interest we want. Let us arrange to culminate in a wintry flight and pursuit across the Alps, under lonely circumstances, and against warnings. Let us get into all the horrors and dangers of such an adventure under the most terrific circumstances, either escaping from or trying to overtake (the latter, the latter I think) someone, on escaping from or overtaking whom the love, prosperity, and Nemesis of the story depend. There we can get Ghostly interest, picturesque interest, breathless interest of time and circumstance, and force the design up to any powerful climax we please. If you will keep this in your mind as I will in mine, urging the story towards it as we go along, we shall get a very Avalanche of power out of it, and thunder it down on the readers' heads.
Just wanted to give my condolences for Octavia Butler. We should all make of our mayfly existence what she made of hers.
Chuck
Octavia Butler
I was so surprised to hear of her death this morning. I read everything this woman wrote. She was not more than three years my senior. She was also a neighbor (from the state next door). I will surely miss looking for new books from her pen.
Very sad these last few days with the loss of Don Knotts, Darren McGavin, Octavia Butler and now Dennis Weaver....
David
Robert, thanks for posting the link to The Seattle Times obit on Octavia Butler. The comment that brought a tear to my eye was Harlan remarking that Ms. Butler "would cover her mouth when she laughed because she was embarrassed by her crooked teeth." I noticed this about her after meeting her at the 21st International Conference on the Fantastic in the Arts where she was the Guest of Honor for the year. I remember walking into the opening conference reception with one of my best friends and remarking, "I hope we'll be able to spot Octavia Butler," and at this point realizing that this very tall African-American woman standing by herself sort of off by a wall was none other than Ms. Butler. I couldn't believe that no one was talking to her! I quickly strode up to her to shake her hand, and I just couldn't get over how tall she was! And what a firm handshake! And what a grand voice! Now, I come from a long line of tall, very vocal people with big, broad hands and what thespians like to call presence, and here was this woman knocking my socks off with just her physical being, and I hadn't even factored in all of her mental prowess. We had a very thoughtful chat about her writing, and by then more people had shown up and wanted to talk with Ms. Butler, so I thanked her for chatting and moved away. Two days later, during the guest scholar luncheon, who should come to our table and join my group of friends but Ms. Butler! She remembered me earlier and deemed me a familiar enough face in a room full of jostling academic types and other writers. At this point, I told her the story about how I switched into English as a major after three semesters in Biochemistry and because I was a bit behind I was slogging through all the sophomore level survey courses. One of these was Intro to Fantasy and Science Fiction, and the professor had us read Adulthood Rites, which is the middle book of her Xenogenesis trilogy. What a sneaky thing to foist upon us! It blew my mind and I had to go out and the other books in short order. Well, during my, shall I say, raving about the blowing of my mind, I set my tablemates (who had been listening) laughing, including the delightful Ms. Butler, who covered up her mouth as she joined in with the rest of the table. She had an incredible voice not only for reading but also just for speaking; when she talked, you really wanted to pay attention. There are a few writers whose work I deeply enjoy and who I feel very fortunate to have heard read their own words in person. Harlan Ellison is one, Neil Gaiman is another, and definitely Octavia Butler. Ars longa vita brevis.
My sympathy to the family, friends, and fans of Octavia, Dennis, Don, and Darren. All were terrific talents. "Kindred" was my favorite Octavia Butler novel. I loved Dennis Weaver in "Duel," a movie I've seen about a dozen times. The movie was weird and suspenseful and incredibly well done. Don Knotts was funny in "Threes Company," though I must confess I was mostly looking at SS. And I'll never forget Darren McGavin in "The Night Stalker" and Jean Shepherd's "Christmas Story."
A very bad week indeed.
Harlan, I'm so sorry. This news is devastating.
Postscript
"Funerals are the way the living
Inscribe the memories of the dead
Into stone"
Harlan, Susan. Represent us well, and remember we stand beside and behind you in your hour(s) of pain.
Your friends. All of us gathered, here.
Dark Days
I will treasure the memory of seeing Octavia Butler speak at LA Central Library a few months ago.
I brought my stepmother, who had never heard of her.
I had heard of her, but never read her work.
We were both floored by not only Ms. Butler, but mainly the unmistakeable love and admiration radiated by the rest of the audience, and I could hear my stepmother proudly chatting up the experience from the other end of the Thanksgiving dinner table at Huck & Carol Barkin's, while I was going on about "Babylon 5" at my end (Huck had recently bought one o' them billiard-table-sized plasma TVs, which I *dream* of watching B5 DVDs on!).
Coming up on the end of Black History Month, and we've lost Octavia Estelle Butler.
We lost Coretta Scott King at the end of January, and we lost Rosa Parks at the end of October.
We've lost Don Knotts, Darren McGavin & Dennis Weaver in as many days.
We lost Andreas Katsulas the day before Valentine's Day (and the LA Times, NY Times and CNN *still* haven't reported it).
Judge Judy was given a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame ON Valentine's Day.
Dark days indeed.
They still had rooms available when i called a couple of weeks ago. The phone # for the Sheraton Bloomington is 952 835 7800. There are two more names to add to the list of those who passed away in the last few days. Billy Cowsill died over the weekend after struggling with health problems the past few years. The other would be Anthony Berger, an incredible pianist, who had a massive heart attack while at the piano playing during a concert and died backstage.
I ordered a copy of the book Adam-Troy Castro mentioned with Vossof and Nimitz as the title characters. It's available at amazon if you enter the authors name to search for it.
Roger
Don Knotts and Dennis Weaver
My lovely wife, on the deaths of these two: "It's been a bad week for deputies."
Octavia Butler brought race and politics out of the shadows, with her stunning writing. It is a great loss to see such a talent go so soon. High blood pressure and heart disease is one of the sins of our fast food culture, especially the one-sided way that it seems to infect African Americans. May she rest in peace at the pleasant side of the shiny star.
------------
Yep, Duel is one of Spielberg's best films. It uses simple horror, but makes it fast paced and stunning. I like the way that the truck becomes a monster, going beyond some dumb chase film.
Dennis Weaver was a great lefty activist, as well; not like anyone here cares. He will be missed, by the people who follow radical politics, and he was just a kind and gentle soul.
Axe and Smash
Duanne & Horatio,
Demon Gene likes to take credit for things. In the eighties he sued Danish Metaler King Diamond for daring to wear make-up on stage. Alice Cooper should have sued him. And he in turn should have been sued by practitioners of Comedia Dell Arte who just ripped it off from tribal chieftans from the dawn of time.
Rest In Peace Ms. Bulter
My condolances to Octavia Butler.
Indeed, this last week seemed like the Black Plague: I totally adored Don Knotts; I hated seeing Darren McGavin's passing (a terrific talent); and I'll always love Dennis Weaver, man.
....and in spite of what Mark said, DUEL was EASILY one of Spielberg's best. It is the tv movie that REALLY gave him his launching pad to feature films (thanks to having a writer around at the time like Richard Matheson); the tour-de-force of camera tricks that made best use of talent he rarely demonstrates now.
And no one will forget Dennis Weaver either, because he was as integral to the impact of that little gem of a film as the aforementioned. I also dug him as a spokesman in behalf of environmental issues.
Uhhhhh, boy. Yeah. RIP. (A drag this wasn't a more upbeat lunch break)
Octavia Butler 1947-2006
I was visiting Mike Resnick when he dropped the news about the passing of Octavia Butler...needless to say I'm still in shock...
On my wasy home I tuned into NPR's Talk of the Nation; they aired part of a 2000 interview with her and Greg Bear gave a touching remeberence of her and her works. I had the pleasuse of meeting her twice in the 80's and found her to be a most gracious and friendly woman.
This tragedy is a terrible loss for us and for literature. My condolances to Harlan, Susan and all her friends and aquaintences.
cmb
Duane, put down the crack pipe
Please check out this link:http://www.snopes.com/quotes/internet.asp, and also the Gene Simmons "fact" is also false. Axe was commonly used in slang back when Gene was still in Israel. For someone steeped in rock/pop culture lore, GS has never made such a claim. Cute story-what's next Richard Gere + the gerbil?
Losing Octavia Butler is... well, I'd say that words fail me. But writers of her skill and caliber remind us that, more often, it's the rest of us who fail the words. The right words, chosen well, arranged with skill, can create mountains and cause forests to blossom... and we've lost one of the few who could do that.
What a shock about Octavia Butler. Just this past summer I attended a panel forum here at the Smithsonian where she and Samuel Delany read and discussed their work.
Never mind the books that won't be written, what hurts is the loss of such a luminous personality.
... and Al Gore invented the internet, too.
Gene Simmons once tried to copyright the word "Axe" as a term for the guitar. He claimed he invented the term and was responsible for its widespread use throughout the Rock community.
Don't worry; Wayans won't see a dime until Simmons gets his.
Dennis Weaver has passed away
Been a rough couple of days with Octavia Butler, Darren McGavin, and now Dennis Weaver passing away.
Weaver was the star of the movie "Duel", which may not have been Spielberg's best but was still a fun film, and starred in the television shows Gunsmoke and McCloud. He also served as President of the Screen Actor's Guild from 1973-1975. More information can be found at:
http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/02/27/obit.weaver.ap/index.html
It has been far too long since I re-read Xenogenesis by Octavia Butler, I will start that one again once I finish Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell later this week
I wonder if I can copyright "whitey." Seems more courant than honkey, and I can always use another revenue stream.
Good for Stanley Crouch. Black entertainment culture has become pretty dim, and rap, like wrestling, never did go away...makes one pine for the days of Sherman Hemsley.
It's not the end of the world, but it's getting pretty damn close:
http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/395181p-334913c.html
I'd like to think that it's really about diminishing the power of that particular word, and that it really is not just about money...but I doubt it.
Yet another reason why I've never really been a big fan of Damon Wayans.
Octavia's obit from the Seattle Times, with commentary by Harlan:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/obituaries/2002831388_butlerobit27m.html
Unca Harlan,
My heartfelt condolences on Ms. Butler's passing.
I'd only a single meeting and subsequent conversation with Octavia Butler, some years ago, but I wept at her passing. She was such a nice person, and such a ballsy writer.
Condolences
Harlan: condolences on the loss of your friend.
Ms. Butler
Octavia Butler gone. Harlan, Susan, anyone else who knew her: I'm very sorry for your loss.
Several months ago I went on a binge and bought 4 books of hers with the intention of familiarizing myself with her work, because I wanted to branch out and stop reading the same old same old.
I haven't started them.
-Keith
Not in the Nebs
Kristin:
Go to FictionWise.com and set up an account (it's free). Once that's done, plug the story title - "Christus Destitutus" - into the search engine, and "buy" it. Don't worry; it's free, too.
Harlan:
Nothing I can say can compensate you for the loss of not only a friend, but someone you mentored. She was a fine writer, and a good person.
I want to thank you, too, for your extraordinary offer to help place "Christus" on the ballot. I was disappointed that it didn't short-list, but frankly, if Mike Bishop, Jack McDevitt, Barry Malzberg, Will Sanders, Jerry Pournelle and you think it's worthy of voting for, that's all I need. All else is tchotchke.
As for next year, well, it just so happens that some time in the next week or so FictionWise will offer "Frog Level (is Not Congruent to) Frog Level," another of my hobo yarns that features not only a birthday present from aliens and a freight train to Anywhere, but Joshua Abraham Norton II, Emperor of America and Protector of Mexico. It was originally published in Interzone a couple of years back, but the FictionWise appearance constitutes its first US publication.
And we all know what THAT means.
How very, very sad to hear about Octavia Butler.
Thank you, Harlan, for recommending her years ago, which prompted me to first read her work.
She had so much more brilliance to drop on us. A sad day, indeed.
CONDOLESCENT NOTES:
Both my first shocked questioning reaction and my immediate vehement reaction, upon reading the news of Ms. Butler's passing (on Peter David's web log), are of course unprintable. In part because she herself--in her books and in her interviews--was so very printable, and in part because she was so very classy. Also in part because she was so very YOUNG. Hell; she's the same age as the uncle I'll be visiting in DC this week as I go to my union's legislative conference to harangue some congressfolk.
And, too, she never seemed to grow old, even as grey peppered her hair; she seemed as ageless as the immortal characters about whom she often wrote.
And DAMN, but she was one hell of a writer. I just finished a book of hers I got out of the library (which of course prompted my customary bitching at the head librarian about the fact that her books are shelved ONLY in the African-American Fiction section [same with Tananarive Due, and Nalo Hopkinson--interestingly, they never pigeonhole Steve Barnes or Chip Delaney there, though Walter Mosley is shelved there as well as in the Mystery and Literature sections]--as if she hadn't done so very much to no longer be seen as she was by many when she first blazed onto the page: As THE Black Woman f/sf author). It was of course brilliant. Burned brightest, and all too briefly.
Dammit dammit dammit.
Harlan, I of course offer my condolences on the loss of another friend; another student--but also, I offer you this:
Though it often seems of late that you walk gingerly through a Cemetery of the Beloved, and the darkness of despair may sometimes bring its oppressive walls crushing down, please take a moment instead to think on the gift of these departed friends. Think how much poorer your life, and how much less swelled, your heart would be if never you had known them.
It does hurt, I know--but please reflect on all the myriad happinesses and joys the mere existence of people such as Octavia Butler in your world, even for too damned short a time, has brought you. Revel, even as your eyes mist, in the lives they DID have, the work they DID do, the kindneses and smiles and laughter you DID have with them.
DC-AREA ELLISONIANS: Sorry, folks; it appears that I will be nothing so much as the No Time! No Time! White Rabbit on this little jaunt. Believe me, I am sadder for not being able to free myself and see you than you are to mis me.
Just awful to hear about Octavia Butler. I just read Kindred last week for the first time, and now I'm a little annoyed at myself for not having started on her work earlier.
Octavia Butler - OMG!!
This is so shocking! We've been hearing a lot here about people who died old (if you live long enough, you end up watching all your old pals die around you...sigh) but she was so young! I have the 2000x CD set with the radio adaptation (hosted by Harlan) of the short story "Bloodchild," a real classic. My condolences to Harlan and to Ms Butler's friends and family.
Bud: Better luck next time...um, where can I get the story?
***
BTW anyone from minneapolis: is the con hotel sold out do you know?
Kristin
Octavia Butler
Such sad news about Octavia Butler. Besides hearing about her through Harlan when he talked about the writing of Mefisto in Onyx at the San Francisco Worldcon she was guest at several local Science Fiction conventions. ICON (Stony Brook NY) Lunacon (Tarrytown) and Readercon (Westboro or Burlington Mass, I can't remember if she was guest after they moved)
At ICON and Lunacon I saw what a gracious and sweet woman she was, but at Readercon there was the opportunity to discuss her work and really listen to her. She spoke about winning the MacArthur grant and I really began to see her journey as a writer. It was wonderful to have met her and it's terrible to lose her.
Offering deepest condolences.
L.
Harlan
Cris and I offer our deepest condolences.
I can't believe it...
This was posted on boing boing about Octavia E. Butler:
http://www.boingboing.net/2006/02/26/rip_octavia_butler_g.html
Damn.
more deaths dammit!
Don Knotts, Darren McGavin, and now Octavia E. Butler. This is shaping up to be one hell of a lousy week-end.
I'm wondering if the notice of Darren McGavin's death in our local paper (the Rochester Democrat & Chronicle) screwed up on a credit. Was there a Mike Hammer television series made in the 1950s or '60s? The article said that he'd starred in one, but I know that it wasn't the '80s series.
A REPLY and SOME SIMPLY AWFUL AWFUL NEWS
JOSH HADLEY:
Gee whiz, Josh, ain't it AMAZING that none of US thought to offer the series to cable.
(It never ceases to astonish me how ill-informed, how sans commonsense and/or logic, how jejeune are some of you folks, a generation surfeited with this "unlimited access to all the information in the known universe.")
Have a nice day, Josh.
I WON'T be having such a nice day because . . .
----------------------------------------------------------------
OCTAVIA ESTELLE BUTLER (1947-2006) died yesterday.
She was my friend, she was my student, she was a startlingly good and important writer, she was my protege, she was--again--my friend; and today she is lying in the morgue up in Seattle.
A winner of the million-dollar McArthur "Genius" grant, she was a novelist of coruscating individuality.
From what can be gathered at this early moment, something close to the following happened, some time yesterday:
Octavia E. (whom I knew, when we first met in the mid-'70s, as "Estelle" because her mother was Octavia M.) went out of her house, to get the mail, or the newspaper, or to water the lawn, or for some other mundane reason, had a stroke, fell in the street or on the sidewalk, or wherever, right in front of the house, and lay there...until she was (I'm told) discovered by a neighborhood lad, possibly a newsboy, who either ran home and had his parents call 911, or he did it himself, on the spot. The paramedics were called, got there very quickly but--and it's uncertain which--Octavia Estelle was either dead already, or expired on her way to the hospital.
More than that I do not know.
But THIS at least IS known to me: here was a remarkable, courageous, gracious, brilliant and extraordinarily talented woman whose like was seldom seen before her hard-won success, and whose like may be long in coming again. But sooner than would have been the case, had my Estelle not been here first.
Her dreams will be the sweetest.
-he
A damn shame about Octavia Butler. She was a wonderful writer and a magnificent person. Harlan , my condolences to you and to everyone else who knew the lovely lady.
Colleen
Octavia Butler
Author Steven Barnes has a blog entry on Butler's passing (http://darkush.blogspot.com/2006/02/octavia-butler-died-saturday.html). If this is true, then it's a major loss and a goddamned shame. My sympathies to everyone who knew her, including Harlan.
Octavia Butler
I confirmed it with the King County Medical Examiner's Office. She's dead. Fuck.
Octavia Butler
ATCastro: You _sure_ about that? Looked around for some story or announcement just now and couldn't find a thing.
And it continues
So's Octavia Butler. Damn it.
sigh
Darren McGavin is gone, alas.
Neal
The great thing about Harlan being on ABC.
Its owned by the Disney Company. Finally forgiven for the cartoon porn imitations?
Mike
Masters Of Science Fiction on ABC is a mistake....
I feel that MoSF being on ABC rather then The Scifi Channel or HBO or Showtime will hinder the show in more ways then one.
Time constraints. Unless a show is a HUGE ratings hit, most shows on ABC are only about 41 minutes without commercials, whereas the cable nets are 44-60.
Content. While Science Fiction does not NEED swearing, sex or serious violence, if the story calls for it I feel that edits should not have to be made and on ABC it will be killed.
Studio Meddling. I have a feeling this will be Twilight Zone 1985 all over again.... I personally loved TZ85 but from what I have read from Harlan and others, CBS was a ton of trouble about the series from day one and I have a feeling that ABC will be the same way.
Ratings. ABC is nearly as bad as FOX when it comes to canning shows after only a few episodes. Unless the show is a HUGE hit I feel that ABC will not pick the series up after the initial 3 episode "test".
This show should be on cable.
I was watching Babylon 5-The Wheel of Fire year 5 today and have a quick question for Harlan. On the first disc episode 4,"A View From The Gallery" was one you were involved enough with to get a writers credit. Out of curiosity, were the maintenance workers Mack and Bo your contribution to the script? They seem to be very much your type of guys.Speaking of B5, in my travels today I happened to pick up some new comics by J Michael Straczinski, its creator. Fantastic 4, The Amazing Spiderman, Supreme Power:Hyperian and the new run of Rising Stars involving Laurel Darkhaven, then one not his, a new Kolchak the Night Stalker. I also picked up a new plant today, a Rabbit's Foot Fern, it is really cool looking. I don't normally buy green leafy plants, most of mine are cactus and bromeliads. They are very easy care plants for anyone to try. Roger
Aw, sheet, Bud, sorry to hear it. Had I known a week or so earlier, you'd've had at least one more vote. I thought the story just nifty, and certainly ballot-worthy.
We'll get 'em next year, pard.
Yr. pal, Harlan
I don't know if you all heard about this yet, but I thought it was pretty wild: Apparently scientists at the University of Illinois have actually built a quantum computer.
http://www.newscientist.com/channel/info-tech/mg18925405.700.html
and also
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0602240107feb24,1,5661316.story?coll=chi-newsnationworld-hed
- John
"Christus Destitutus"
...did not make the final Nebula ballot. Thanks to everyone who read it and sent me comments.
Der Buhk
Harlan,
The name of the book was VOSSOFF AND NIMMITZ: JUST A COUPLE OF IDIOTS RE-UPHOLSTERING SPACE AND TIME. Wildside did the Hardcover; one of my several grudges against BP the corporate entity was that they contracted to publish the paperback, announced it in Locus, then took it off the schedule, without ever once so much as bothering to tell me. Because it continued to appear in the databases of some online booksellers, I was still expecting to see it appear in stores two weeks before the originally scheduled pub date; that's about when the weight of accumulating evidence taught me that something unkosher was up.
I was already deeply pissed at BP for more reasons than I can elucidate here. So by the final third of 2005, with neither that book or (as far as I could tell) any of the several other books BP signed from Wildside on the schedule, I was sufficiently pissed off to formally rescind the rights. The impending bankrupcy was another factor. I didn't want the book trapped in limbo forever, the way one of my early Spider-Man novels for BP has been.
As a mass-market book, VOSSOFF AND NIMMITZ faces an uncertain future, especially since (I'm told) a couple of the acquisition editors at major houses have read some of the individual stories that make it up, and are downright hostile to it (while remaining amenable to receiving submissions of my writing in other modes).
But Wildside still has hardcovers. And I needed to get a couple on hand, anyway.
So, it'll be a little bit of a wait, but you've got one coming.
A-TC
Yeah, and if that doesn't work he can always send a threatening letter to TWENTY THREE DONKEYSHOW ROAD.
http://www.tijuanabible.org/ host and owner information
Harlan,
As a member in good standing of the Flying Blue Monkey Squadron, I present for your reading and litigious pleasure:
Domain ID: D96681770-LROR
Domain Name: TIJUANABIBLE.ORG
Sponsoring Registrar: Intercosmos Media Group Inc. (R48-LROR)
Registrant ID: ODN-431427
Tijuana Tabasco Co.
23 donkeyshow dr
Tijuana
border
11101
MX
Phone: +52.0013428844
Email: tj@tijuanacartoonsex.com
Admin ID: ODN-431427
Tijuana Tabasco Co.
23 donkeyshow dr
Tijuana
border
11101
MX
Phone: +52.0013428844
Email: tj@tijuanacartoonsex.com
Tech ID: ODN-431427
Tijuana Tabasco Co.
23 donkeyshow dr
Tijuana
border
11101
MX
Phone: +52.0013428844
Email: tj@tijuanacartoonsex.com
Name Server:NS1.4PH.COM
Name Server:NS2.4PH.COM
Name Server:NS3.4PH.COM
==============================================================
and just in case, here is the scoop on the company hosting the web site:
TIJUANABIBLE.ORG
69.5.68.129
Record Type: IP Address
OrgName: Carpathia Hosting
OrgID: CARPA-3
Address: 2101 Mill Rd
Address: Suite 106
City: Alexandria
StateProv: VA
PostalCode: 22314
Country: US
ReferralServer: rwhois://rwhois.carpathiahost.com:4321
NetRange: 69.5.64.0 - 69.5.95.255
CIDR: 69.5.64.0/19
NetName: CIRN-NETBLOCK03
NetHandle: NET-69-5-64-0-1
Parent: NET-69-0-0-0-0
NetType: Direct Allocation
NameServer: NS1.4PH.COM
NameServer: NS2.4PH.COM
Comment:
RegDate: 2002-11-07
Updated: 2005-01-18
[**** REPORT ABUSE HERE ****]
OrgAbuseHandle: KSB1-ARIN
OrgAbuseName: Bethke, Kenneth Scott
OrgAbusePhone: +1-703-740-1730
OrgAbuseEmail: abuse@carpathiahost.com
OrgTechHandle: KSB1-ARIN
OrgTechName: Bethke, Kenneth Scott
OrgTechPhone: +1-703-740-1730
OrgTechEmail: abuse@carpathiahost.com
==============================================================
I would have the website host provider (Carpathia Hosting, Kenneth Scott Bethke) take down the site first, at the behest of your attorney. That will get the attention of the website owner and content provider. Then things get interesting as they try to contact you to find out why. Website hosts are usually very loath to be involved in any way with supporting known plagiarism and theft of intellectual property.
S!
... I'm done, finished, all washed up, written out, incapable of producing anything new, a burnt-out hack, ....
Never said that. Just said that all the books are re-issues now. That's not an insult, just a fact. If it bothers you, make a liar out of me.
Lotte Lenya
Sony Classical, which use to be the Columbia Masterworks label, has released on CD the two albums Lotte Lenya did for them. One is of Kurt Weil's Berlin music done with Bertold Brecht, and the other of his American Musical period, including selections from Knickbocker Holiday, One Touch of Venus and Lost in the Stars.
Plus for the fanatic, Bear Family a imprint out of Germany who specialize in the most complete recordings of artists in country, folk, jazz and blues have a 11 disc Lenya box set for those who want to hear every note.
Kurt Weil's music always seem to be in my house as a child. From Ernie Kovack's use of the German language version of "Mack the Knife" to Ella Fitzgerald's, and my parents who had a 78 of Walter Houston singing "September Song" which was 'their' song. If nothing else this mention of Lotte Lenya has me pulling out some of her vinyl for a listen this weekend.
Note to Harlan
Harlan, my old:
I'm at a con in Roanoke, Virginia, and won't be able to call you until Sunday when I get back home. No, the final ballot hasn't been announced, and I'm trying very hard NOT to chew my nails to the quick (and beyond) until I hear, nor do I have any idea when the announcement will come.
And I will do what I can when I get back to find an address/phone number/other contact information for the afore-mentioned pirate. Gimme a couple of days and I'll work that voodoo that I do so WEEEEELLLLLL.
Oh, My Christian Eyes!!
Dear Pastor of TijuanaBible.org, a (presumably) respectable place where one can go to hear the words of the Lord from His holy servants who reside south of the border:
Here I sit, primly and in a state of complete indignation, expecting to receive some much needed Godly inspiration.
But what do I see before me?
"You must be 18 to enter," the little flag says? Why? Are the poor, homeless urchins who inhabit Avenida De La Revolucion not allowed inside the well-swept doors of your little eChurch? Didn't Our Lord speak the truth when He suffered the little children to come unto Him?
So help me, I'm going to click ENTER and find out what your problem is, and set you straight on it, riiight.... NOW!!
HOLD THE BUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Susan has just pointed out to me that the weird pirate guy at TijuanaBible.org does, indeed, have my copyright notice (sort of) on the piece. It is in white, against a near-white background and I didn't see it. He also states on the site that he "may be using copyrighted material," but he doesn't point out that he hasn't gotten permission to do so.
Whatta mess.
If anybody can find a name, a number, an address outside the chipper world of electronic pilferage, I would be virtually comatose with pleasure to have said data.
Exhausted, Yr. pal, Harlan
I'm finished with jury duty, this was the fourth time I've served over the years. It was the first time I haven't got picked for a jury, I've been picked seven times to be a juror for a trial in my previous appearances. I did get a lot of reading done while waiting in the jury room. I finished a new collection of Heinlein short stories that included everything not in the Future History series. I also got started on the third I've read in the series of Retrieval Artist stories written by Kristine Rusch. This one is called "Buried Deep" and is as well written and entertaining as the rest in the series. I know there is at least one more available, I'll have to track it down.I'm listening to a double disc set called "The Last Midnight Ride" by Mark Lindsey as I have been reading the messages here and while typing one. It is a live recording from New Year's Eve 2003 which at the time was to be his last concert before retiring.The retirement didn't last forever, he is still recording and on rare occasion touring. It is a very entertaining set with some of his solo cuts and quite a few Raiders tunes. It has my favorite tune he did late in his career with the Raiders, a tune called "Tobacco Road".I got to see them do it live at Knotts Berry Farm in the summer of 1974.I got this disc directly from his web site along with three other discs. Very cool. Bye for now. Roger
ASSORTED REPLIES
BUD WEBSTER: No, the clown at Tijuanabibles.org does NOT have my permission to reprint that essay, nor has he ever advised me of its existence. I have no problem with his using it . . . as long as he pays me, AND runs my copyright notice, AS WELL AS my registered trademark of the name "Harlan Ellison." I'd also be much happier if the clown had not typed in so many errors, mistakes, and random hyphens; whatta mess! I'm putting my most deadly attorney on it. Just the latest of oblivious thieves who think the world is there to be stolen from, strictly for their own purposes. This jerk even has his own copyright on MY essay! Whatta mess! We've taken down more than 200 of these guys since the first one back at the beginning of the suit that ended with AOL, et al. And this guy'll feel the sting of the Green Hornet, too. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
Also, did "Christus Destitutus" make it onto the final ballot? I have now read it, and have no problem with adding my name to the list of nominating entities. Wouldn't hurt for you to call me and give me a quick "how to do it." I'm not EXACTLY a doofus on this procedure online, or by mail, but well er uh...
DAVID LOFTUS:
As far as I know, that boat is still moored at the pier. I have a call in to Joe Stefko, and when he gets back to me--probably this weekend--I'll refresh his memory. I don't think he'll have forgotten, because Joe is V E R Y sedulous about these matters, but as I haven't seen page proofs yet myself, and as Joe assured me when I got mine, you'd get a duplicate set, my best guess is that everything is tootlin'along pro forma at a measured pace. When I know, you'll know; trust me on this.
ADAM-TROY:
Once upon a time last year or so, the late Byron Preiss (who knew we were friends) mentioned a book of yours that he was doing, the title of which I can only approximate (forgive errors): TWO (adjective lost) GUYS REUPHOLSTERING TIME AND SPACE. Did said novel, or whatever, actually get published before Byron's death and the bankruptcy filing by Sandi Mendelson Preiss/Roger Cooper this week?
And if so, can I mooch a signed copy?
KB:
"The Oscar" . . . geezus-peezus, didn't your mommy ever tell you it ain't nice to tie tin cans to puppy dogs' tails, not nice to kick a cripple, not nice to make fun of the old lady with the giant black hairy mole on her nose?
I was one of the "live rats" at the LAST screening of that awful film; and before our one-on-one with the audience, as they ran the film at the Egyptian, desperation and unhappiness even after all these years drove me out onto Hollywood Boulevard to brave the junkies, meat rack loungers, footpads and hooligans, and the fetid miasma of fried pizza roiling in civet fat, rather than sit there and listen to people laughing where there were no funnylines, treating the film as it so richly deserved, as a piece of camp crap done serioso. Then I drugged my ass back, dismayed and lamenting the crib-death of my burgeoning feature film career decades ago, and was forced to sit up there with the charming and gracious widow of Ernie Kovacs, Edie Adams, as my soul writhed and putrefied within me.
So, thanks a lot for mentioning it, rat-bag.
JOE L.:
You are almost pretty-close to forgiven. I commend to your attention, in addition to THREEPENNY OPERA, a 33 vinyl that I don't think has been released as a DVD, but might've, done back in the '60s or '70s by Ms. Lenya, on Columbia. I think it was called LOTTE LENYA SINGS KURT WEILL, and if you can locate a copy, jump on it. Like Piaf, she was sui generis.
KEVIN:
Of course, you're right; and I was not so much wrong as REALLY wrong. I'd claim brain-fart and be excused, but this close to Alzheimer's age, I'd as lief merely suggest rampant dopiness.
But thank you for slapping me upside.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Jan- If you want to find a particular place on Google Earth go to the city you want and then in the layers section check Elementary Schools, or whatever landmarks you might want to locate.
Has anyone found 89 Harmon Drive on Google Earth yet? There is only a Harmon Avenue, it doesn't meet Mentor Avenue directly. Lathrop Grade School is an Elementary School, the dark woods fronting Mentor aren't there either. I'm confused. Who has the exact coordinates of the house?
Josh Olson
Harlan, the correct title of the film for which Josh Olson is nominated for an Oscar (Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material Previously Produced or Published) is A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE (without the SHORT).
I'm Eating My Words!
There's no excuse for my mental laziness in not looking up the name of Lotte Lenya's character Rosa Klebb in "From Russia with Love" I was wrong on all 3 counts; she's not ugly(she did a super job PLAYING a nasty, mean looking villianess),she's not Russian(born in Austria) and most certainly not a bitch. The video tape of her performing in the 1931 version of Threepenny opera(Die Dreigroschenoper) is available but no DVD of any production has been issued! As repentance for my indolence I will buy a recording of Threepenny featuring Lotte singing.
"The Discarded"
This is a fantastic short story. I like all of them, of course, but this was one I really liked when I first read it long ago.
Korn
Legit or not?
Harlan, is this up with your knowledge and permission?
http://www.tijuanabible.org/ellison.html
It seems so, but you can never tell.
The Oscar
The Oscar is supposed to be coming out on DVD soon, I have no information on if there are any extras included. The Percy Faith soundtrack came out last winter on a specialty label. I have also heard that the First Season of "Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea" will soon be out featuring our esteemed Host's "Cordwainer Bird" bylined episode. Hearing about "The Discarded" and "Dream Corridor" whet one's appetite to seeing Harlan's work done properly for the screen.
I see the American Cinematheque at the Egyptian in Hollywood will be screening The Oscar on March 3rd. Discussion to follow with...Elke Sommer.
I am sorry to hear that so many people do not like Masters of horror. I will still watch Masters of Science Fiction but I was really looking forward to seeing Harlequin. What are people’s opinions on fan-funded productions?
I still think that it would be cool to see 'Repent, Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman" as a full fledged motion picture.
Sometimes a story comes along and you just have to share it
I didn't really want to add another off-topic following the recent politics, noir and Bond threads, but I've just read a news story which gave me a much-needed end of week chuckle.
As far as I know, the Degree Of Separation / Hamming Distance / Kevin Bacon Number / Minimum Spanning Tree / whatever between Harlan and goats is Infinity. So I'm probably (hopefully!) off-topic, and I promise to get back on track next time I post, ok?
The story is here:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/4748292.stm
I'm surprised to find that everyone here has such a negative opinion of MASTERS OF HORROR. The series recently started playing on an obscure UK cable channel, with virtually no publicity. So I ended up missing the first few episodes. But I was very impressed by the three segments I did manage to catch: Stuart Gordon's DREAMS IN THE WITCH-HOUSE, Joe Dante's HOMECOMING and Larry Cohen's PICK ME UP.
Postscript
Oh, and in response to another comment: there have been other films featuring SEVERAL Bond villains, most notable among them being RONIN, which had no less than three.
Re: Craig. I couldn't care less about all the hootin' and hollerin' about his casting. Of course I was never a Bond fan to begin with, but it's inevitably amusing when fans presume to own a story or a character just because they happen to have taken it, her, or him to their hearts. They should just be happy someone else who has a bit more money than they is still willing to invest in further stories, unlike some of the characters and authors you and I really care about and will never see anywhere but on the page of fast-disappearing-from-print books.
(On the other hand, I certainly take umbrage at some of the casual remarks I hear now and then about my personal faves, such as Ellison, Fowles, Kurosawa, or T.S. Eliot. I just try to maintain my cool about it.)
HEY, HARLAN:
Are we gonna do those indexes for the Glass Teats, or have I missed the boat on that one?
Masters of Horror
Was not impressed by what little of Masters of Horror I'd seen (though I have liked the work of some of its contributors, like Lucky McKee's MAY).
You know, these anthology shows are always more impressive if they're writer-driven, rather than director-driven*. I mean, compare the first three incarnations of THE TWILIGHT ZONE to Spielberg's AMAZING STORIES. No comparison. The story comes first.
It's an especially strong difference in horror, where some of the directors are only known for dreck. For instance, I have no respect, whatsoever, for hot young thing Eli Roth, whose much-praised CABIN FEVER was just a head-scratcher, and whose HOSTEL has a rep as nothing but torture porn.
I will be seeing all of MASTERS OF HORROR when I review the DVD for Scifiweekly, and am sincerely hoping for two or three good installments out of the whole bunch. But I hope MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION has a better track record.
MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION
I decided not to adapt "'Repent, Harlequin!' Said the Ticktockman" for this new series (which might eventually, I hope, be named DESTINY, not MASTERS OF...
I made the decision for my own reasons. No one else had any say in it.
In its place, we'll be adapting (for the first time) "The Discarded," with Academy Award-nominated scenarist Josh Olson (A SHORT HISTORY OF VIOLENCE) and myself doing the teleplay. Josh is a friend, he's enthused about the collaboration, I've started writing the opening scenes, and I feel extraordinarily assured that THIS time...all will go well.
I must sadly agree with Todd as to the worth of MASTERS OF HORROR> But not surprised. Ask me about my theory on this sort of director-spawned "horror" some time. Not now. SOMEtime
other than NOWtime.
Yr. pal, Harlan
-----------------------------------------------------------------
As for "Gerd Trimbleson," who ISN'T even remotely a Gerd ANYbody (but simply a troll we've been encountering at this site for years), the sage analyst is absolutely right: I'm done, finished, all washed up, written out, incapable of producing anything new, a burnt-out hack, a swaybacked warhorse put out to pasture, a teeterer on the crumbling lip of the abyss of obscurity, down for the count, finito, no-price, shined on and ready for the dust-heap.
As opposed to "Gerd," whose sterling career dwarfs mine, and who goes on year after year producing good works of literary pellucidity.
Yeah, and if you drop the bomb-bay door on my Dr. Denton's, a chorus of caroling pandas assaying a medley from "Man of La Mancha" will fly outta my ass.
Cheerily, Yr. pal, Harlan
Funny coincidence: while I'm reading the recent wave of James Bond-oriented posts, the TiVo's running an episode of _I'm Alan Partridge_ where Alan preps to watch a James Bond marathon.
Someone ought to track down the piece Alexander Cockburn did on Bond a few years back, when he visted the set of _The Living Daylights_. It's a nice bit of reportage, and some nice history, in that Cockburn goes into detail about Fleming's penchant for wild, undisciplined fantasy that reflected, well, something truly rich and strange in his soul.
There's a wonderfully funny bit Cockburn relates, where Fleming, at a dinner in the U.S. in the late 1950s, is asked what ought to be done about Fidel Castro. Fleming suggested dropping flyers over Cuba claiming that fallout from a Russian A-bomb test was going to fall upon the island, and that it lodges best in hair and beards. This would prompt a wave of panicked shaving among Cuban males, and "without beards there would be no revolution." The dinner guests, including Senator JFK, laughed at the scheme; and then one thinks of those schemes to assassinate Castro with exploding shells and beard defoliants, and wonders.
I used to love the Bond films when I was a kid. But when I was thirteen or fourteen, they lost a lot of charm for me. I could suspend disbelief for the Connery films because they were made ten years before I actually saw them, so it was a little easier to accept the Ken Adam sets and Lex Luthor plots. But ever since the 1970s, I just couldn't enjoy the fantasy very much. I kept wondering how spies and espionage actually _worked_, and I couldn't buy this lumbering Englishman skirting the edges of global society like some wine-tippling ninja. I'd see the Bond films, enjoy a few, but... well, that's all.
Two funny bits about Bond villians. I just watched Luis Bunuel's _The Phantom of Liberty_, and it was fun to notice the presence of two actors who'd also played Bond villians. There as Adolfo Celi, from _Thunderball_, and Michael Lonsdale from _Moonraker_ (and _The Name of the Rose_ and _Munich_).
The other is about Lotte Lenya, whose turn as Rosa Klebb must have imprinted itself upon the nightmares of het males worldwide. There's a scene in the film _Semi-Tough_ where Burt Reynolds goes to see a tough-looking masseuse who's a parody of Ida Rolf. The woman was played by Lotte Lenya. And I remember _distinctly_ that, when she appeared on screen, a middle-aged guy in the audience said "Oh my God, it's Rosa Klebb." There was _real fear_ in his voice.
Went to the anti-Craig site that Adam Castro mentioned, and what a mess that is. Talk about xenogenesis...this thing was just a character smear and exercise in fanboy creepiness from top to bottom. It made me very glad that Daniel Craig has been cast, and I hope he gets paunchy and utters stupid quips by the time his fifth Bond movie rolls around, just to spite these no-life assholes.
Aside from the Craig-bashing, you get the usual bleating for stunt-casting, by clueless fans who don't see the absurdity in casting Hugh Jackman or Jude Law as James Bond. Just because certain famous faces have a look that one might associate with an archetype, doesn't mean you run out and cast that person. It's the same mentality that tries to physically match actors to comic book characters, and prompted all the screaming when Nick Cage was being considered for Superman.
"Gerd"
There's a big difference between "masterpiece" and "collection". (Just because no collections have been published does not equate to nothing written.)
Just my two quarters and a nickel (inflation being what it is).
In regard to the Masters of Science Fiction television series: here's hoping that it is related to the Masters of Horror television series in name only, because that has been one of the most putrid, disappointing shows to come along in quite some time. You would expect that the talents involved and the freedom they were granted would have resulted in some real good stuff - alas, it's been chockfull of tepid scripts and bouncing titties every ten minutes.
As for MofSF - that recent link indicated that Harlan's The Discarded would be filmed and made no mention of Repent Harlequin.....was this an example of inaccurate reporting, a change in what story of Harlan's would be filmed or an indication that Harlan will get more than one of his stories into this series?
I sure hope they haven't given up on Repent, that would be truly interesting to see.
-TODD
New masterpieces...not holding my breath. Haven't seen a new book in a decade. It's all reissues now.
Harlan is busy writing new masterpieces... don't you care at all?
;-)
Hey, noble Harlan! How's the coffee situation?
Bond stuff for those what might want it.
Since Bond seems to be the topic of the day, I thought some of you might like to read a short essay Warren Ellis wrote on the character. I found it entertaining and interesting, and since his last name is almost as good as our esteemed host's (losing by only two letters in the final stretch), I don't feel that it's too far astray to post about. If I'm mistaken, of course, someone please give me a slap on the wrist.
http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=421
There's also a short note about the Bond film CASINO ROYALE elsewhere on Ellis's site:
http://www.warrenellis.com/?p=1673
JOE L. in Anaheim:
Watch your mouth, fella.
The "ugly Russian bitch" you dismiss so cavalierly without even knowing who she was...was the great, the legendary actress and singer Lotte Lenya, Kurt Weill's wife, who introduced with grandeur and unforgettable panache not only most of the music we know from MAHAGONY and LOST IN THE STARS and THREEPENNY OPERA, but who played the original co-lead in the stage production of CABARET.
She was also a grand and charming woman whom I once had the honor of meeting backstage, when Jill Haworth (who played the other, younger, female lead), a friend of mine from the Sal Mineo days, introduced me.
It was a breaathtaking moment in my life; not one I shall soon forget; and any smartass know-nothing parvenu who--vertently or inadvertently--takes her name in vain, will find my boot on his/her throat.
Watch your mouth, son.
Chillily, Harlan
Ellison News -- Forgive me if this is a repost
http://comingsoon.net/news/tvnews.php?id=13312
The hell with Bond, and whoever ends up playing him. I've always preferred the likes of John Drake.
Regarding SBC reference
Susan,
My email was sent the minute I became aware of the slight. I suspect you two may never have heard about this matter if I didn't bring it up (the website referenced is out of New Zealand), but in the event that it *did* reach you, I'd rather you hear it from me.
Message sent to Jason Brice (owner/EiC of www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com) on 2/23/06 as follows:
Jason,
While I'm sure your reporter Adam Volk meant no harm, the slug on the article "Crystal Meth: An Interview with Clifford Meth" reads as follows:
"SBC’s Adam Volk sat down with Cliff to talk about trigger happy Vice-Presidents, Harlan Ellison’s mood swings and the future of the comic book industry."
The transcript of the interview (see below) makes it plain that I NEVER ONCE discussed Harlan Ellison's "moods" or anything else about him--I simply listed him as an influence. He would be hurt by this reference and it dishonors our friendship. Please remove it immediately.
Clifford Meth
AV: You’ve worked in a variety of industries and genres. What would you say has been some of the most prominent influences on your work?
CM: Harlan Ellison, Charles Bukowski, and Kurt Vonnegut are my three favorite authors. They are all very different from one another but I prefer their voices to everyone else’s. I feel like I’m reading a friend, which, in Harlan’s case, I am.
To Frank Church:
Loftus has email, please use it. Whoever said "From Russia with Love" isnt a good Bond film is full of it-Robert Shaw and that ugly Russian bitch are 2 of the greatest Bond villians of all time!
usa
Hey Frank Church.
Just what is your site on the web.I googled Frank Church and found an excellent site benfrank.net with much about the old senator Frank Church. If you read his stuff about NSA and cointelpro it could have been written today. Very intelligent man.
Lazenby couldn't act. He looked fine, although the prognathous jaw was hard to get a camera around, at times.
They were true to the book when offing Bond's wife. Ian Fleming had a franchise to think about too.
Loftus, Chomsky has emailed me about Sam Harris' stupid comments about the man. Go to my news page and you will see his answer. Proves you should stop believing second hand gossip.
Bond gurlz
Plus, OHMSS had a real woman as the love interest, and Bond married her.
Unfortunately, to keep the franchise lively, they had to kill her off immediately. So she trundled off to do "Julius Caesar" with Gielgud, Robards, Heston and Christopher Lee, and "The Hospital" with George C. Scott.
Thanks Adam-Troy Castro !
Adam-Troy,
That link made my day. I needed a good laugh. Thanks!
-Keith
James Bond, now there's an anachronism.
Hey you wanna revitalize the, uh, "franchise" (jeez, I just used the word franchise), howzabout some creative casting?
STEVE BUSCEMI!
It could work, no shit. JB as postmodernist sadsack.
I woulda gone for Harry Dean Stanton but he's probably too old for the part.
Now the real ballbuster is picking a Bond girl. Hmmmmmmm... maybe Daryl Hannah reprising the character she played in SILVER CITY.
Bond...James Bond!
What any of this has to do with Harlan, I dunno, but I couldn't resist the topic.
For true fans of the literary Jame Bond, Ash is correct, OHMSS is by far the most accurate cinematic portrayal of a 007 book and George Lazenby's is by far the most accurate portrayal of Bond! That's good for the books, but may (depending on your own preferences and prejudices) mean absolutely nothing for the movies. I've read all the books, a few of them more than once, and I originally read them in the order they were published to appreciate the evolution of Ian Fleming's style and 007's character. I'm not going to take sides on who was the best Bond because my opinion doesn't mean squat in terms of having any effect on the Bond series. Cry all you want, folks, you'll get the Bond the studio chooses whether you like it or not. As for the Bonds that have gone before, you saw 'em, you paid your drachmas to get in the door, and that's all water under the bridge now. The truth is that if you haven't bothered to read the books, you have no idea how bad ALL the movies have been! Things to point out...at least in the early Sean Connery films there was some adherence to the books. Then, once again OHMSS was dead on accurate, and so was the much maligned George Lazenby. Roger Moore, who I can't help liking anyway (he's a gentleman in every sense of the word and very honest about the kismet nature of his stardom...any man who can happily fox trot with Dame Edna is okay with me!), bore no resemblance to James Bond at all, and the scripts of his films were completely new (and generally silly) fabrications. Geez, go read Moonraker and learn what a horrific shadow of a story the film was! But Moore's movies did have a senses of style. Everything after that has been the product of a cinematic B-movie machine that has offered far more sizzle than substance. Hey, I've seen them all, I'm not complaining, I know exactly what I'm going to get when I go to a Bond film and I enjoy the ride, but the earlier movies were much better "films" than what followed. Timothy Dalton and Pierce Brosnan did what was asked of them (smirk, kill bad guys, toss off one-liners, look good in a suit, bed gorgeous women...work, work, work!), but they were pretty boy cardboard cut-out adaptations of the real Bond. I suppose Daniel Craig will be the same, but there's always hope. Sean Connery was not the perfect Bond, but his callousness was correct. If you want a kinder gentler Bond, then I do NOT recommend the books. Bond is a killer. There are amazing moments of sudden and unexpected introspection in the books that put meat on the bones of an outwardly opaque character, but in the end Bond is always ruthless and, as a necessity for his survival, calculatingly cold. Ah, who cares what kind of Bond you prefer! Go find a worn-out paperback copy of Casino Royale and see what you've REALLY been missing. I don't think you'll regret it.
Steve Barber, Peter Sellers was NOT James Bond in the 1960's spoof version of Casino Royal! He was a decoy. James Bond was portrayed by David Niven. Of course, if you think that even as a decoy Sellers is worthy of a nod as a genuine Bond, hey, whatever floats your boat. Sellers and Niven both performed admirably in a mish-mash of a movie that can only be appreciated as a cultural product of its time. It's almost impossible to watch today.
FOR STEVE BARBER:
The American actor who played Bond in the live 1950s CLIMAX MYSTERY THEATRE adaptation of CASINO ROYALE was Barry Nelson. I defy you to find a more useless bit of information anywhere on the Net!
Bond and boycotts
OHMSS is the best Bond movie ever! And Lazenby did a good job I thought.
Hopefully the new guy will be able to simply ignore all the fanboy flack. This boycott talk reminds me of the grilling Ronald D. Moore received, months before the new BSG had even gone into production.
And I was just leafing through an old Starlog. On the letters page, regarding rumours of Han Solo's demise in the forthcoming Empire Strikes Back, an irate Star Wars fan writes "... if this character is killed off, I, too, am completely through with having anything to do with Star Wars". Holy cow, imagine having to wait until the release of Jedi before you know whether you should continue supporting the franchise!
Film Notes 101
(Douglas H, thank you for pointing out Robert had included BLADE RUNNER on his list. My error, and props to Robert for including it.)
ANECDOTAL MEMORIES - THE FIRST TIME I MET HARLAN (made relevant by the topic of movies and such):
The first time I met Harlan Ellison was many years ago when I was an unsophisticated young whelp attending USC. Harlan was the guest speaker in Arthur Knight's "Sex in Cinema" class that afternoon. Harlan was doing his legendary college rant involving Dachau and the ignorance of college students, especially those taking film classes. As he spoke his eyes kept drifting to the back of the auditorium, after which he would glance at Arthur with a puzzled expression.
Finally, Arthur interrupted Harlan and began to chastise one of the other students for reading a newspaper instead of listening to the talk. Her response was (something to the effect of) "when he says something significant I'll listen", delivered with all the bravado and sneer only a college-level privileged-class blond twenty-something can muster, and she finished her response with a dramatic relifting of the paper to resume her reading.
They carried her out in a body bag, once we found all the parts.
Oddly enough, I don't remember the film shown that day, but I DO remember Harlan.
_________________________________________________
Since it will inevitably happen anyway, here's my list of the Bonds in descending order of preference:
Pierce Brosnan
Timothy Dalton
Sean Connery
Roger Moore
George Lazenby
Peter Sellers
(... And, in last place, the American actor who played the role in the tv adaptation iun the 1950s.)
Ok, it's time for this. Now. A defense of Roger Moore's Bond.
While it has long been the lab-rat response to shriek "Sean Connery" when asked who is the best Bond, what people are really rooting for is the 60s look. Thin ties, cars with clean lines, tiki lounge chic, and early space-race technology. Connery fit right in, although no-one is going put up Diamonds are Forever or Thunderball as great Bond films. Dr. No has a lot of charm, but it's spotty as a first effort; From Russia with Love has not aged well, and is the one Bond of all them on which you'd just as soon change channels. Sean's claim to fame really rests on Goldfinger, with the dubbed Gert Frobe, and You Only Live Twice, with it's great soundtrack and locations.
Enter Roger Moore, after the Lazenby disaster in On Her Majesty's Secret Service and Connery's lazy disaster in Diamonds. Live and Let Die was not filmed in wide-screen, which was a mistake, but it put new life into the series, which after stumbling a bit with Man With the Golden Gun, peaked with the Spy Who Loved Me. Yes, 70s excess took over, Moonraker was a mess, although many have over-looked the streamlined and literary For Your Eyes Only, and Octopussy is still a very entertaining film, with a great cast and fun locations.
Unlike Connery's Bond, Moore's was kinder (which made his occasional assassinations more thrilling), more considerate of the women he was bedding, and...brace yourself...physically stronger. Moore kicked ass when he wanted too, but never lost sight of the playboy calling. And that's the Bond fantasy...good booze, hot women, luck at the tables, and oh yeah, a job that saves the world.
Connery never looked like he was enjoying himself, and I prefer my Bond as a man comfortable with who he is and what he's doing. There was a ruthlessness to Connery's bond that makes it easy to forgive Moore's later paunchiness and occasionaly stupid quips. Yes, Roger went on too long, but that's not his fault...you'd all take the paycheck too, and I doubt any of us are any skinnier.
I'm all for the new Bond. I like Tim Dalton, but not as Bond. Brosnan did a serviceable job, and is probably the Bond that "looks" like the literary figure the most. Goldeneye was a great movie, if only for giving us Famke Jannsen. I was hoping they'd make Casino Royale a retro movie, set in the early 60s, but I'll take whatever they give. And yes, I'm the one who checks the box "Roger Moore" when asked who was the best Bond.
"Tarantino hits on sex all of the time. 'From Dusk Till Dawn' is fairly dripping with nude scenes and sex (and a rather unhealthy emphasis on the rape fantasies of Tarantino's character.)"
Tarantino didn't direct FROM DUSK TILL DAWN. The more overt exploitation film elements are typical of director Robert Rodriguez.
Casino Royale with Cheese
Amazing. Of all the things to concern one's self with, the actor playing James Bond seems low on a very tall list, especially considering the fact that an aging, polyester-clad Roger Moore held the role during its bad batch in the late 70s, early 80s and delivered us gems in in the series like Moonraker and A View to A Kill. And if seeing those flicks caused PTSD in the protesters, I say let's put them all in a room to watch Cannonball Run and watch them all implode.
Sex?
Frank: Tarantino hits on sex all of the time. 'From Dusk Till Dawn' is fairly dripping with nude scenes and sex (and a rather unhealthy emphasis on the rape fantasies of Tarantino's character.)
Tarantino is a pornographer of violence. Now, really good pornography, in the hands of someone who knows what they're doing, can be stunning. If that's your conceit, fine - but it requires precision accuracy to make it work. Tarantino opts for the cartoonish and jaded. Like Esterhazs or Bret Easton Ellis, he misses the meat for the metaphor, every single movie.
Obsession Leads to Inspiration
An organization of James Bond fans has threatened to boycott the new film in the series (a more-serious CASINO ROYALE), because they'e saying new actor Daniel Craig can't possibly do justice to the part.
Like Pierce Brosnan, good as he was, was definitive. Or like their movement has a chance of becoming widespread enough to give the producers a single sleepless night. Or like the forgetful audience won't soon forget that anybody other than
Craig ever played the part. Or, more to the point, like the movies aren't just (at best) entertaining shit to begin with, and like there aren't other, more serious issues for us all to worry about. Jeez Louise. Give us a break.
THAT SAID...
The organization's web page really has a hate on for Craig, and is worth checking out, especially for the (admittedly inspired) photo abuse at the bottom of this particular rant. Guys, their cause is a colossal waste of time, but this particular page is a must see. Obsession does lead to inspiration. Check it out.
http://www.craignotbond.com/craignotbondp1.html
So given that Dubai Ports World is probably more interested in money than terrorism, and given that most likely there is very little chance of any terrorist activity that would take place in the port cities that the UAE company would run, and given that we're actually at "war" with radical elements of Islam as opposed to those suits in the UAE...given all this, and the likelihood that nothing at all would go wrong, or that our national security would not be threatened...I have two questions:
Would you be willing to take a chance if you lived in that city?
And...
Would we have allowed a Russian company to run these ports if the Cold War was still on?
Brad Stevens : Man, I'd be happy to find out it's not a bomb. I was a bit surprised to find that Walken and Defoe had both wound up in a sub-B movie, but stranger things have happened. Guess I'll nose around and see if its in stock at any of the rental places around me.
Those 1977 Black & White Photos of Your Hat
Hi, Harlan -
I got a comment on my old blog today from 1977 Clarion Workshop participant Mike Orgill. It turns out that he's the one who took the photos of you and your hat. Presumably he would have the negatives as well. Unfortunately, I was unable to find defintitelyforsureit'shim contact info to pass on to you, in case you want better copies.
Regards,
Karen
P.S. Congrats on the Grand Master Award!
Think about it
Citizen Kane contains many 'noir scenes(The opening showing Xanadu,etc.) and has one of the great non-murder mystereries of all time!
I have noticed that Tarantino avoids sex and nudity in his films, but never avoids violence, especially in service of a cheap joke. I don't remember ever seeing a nude scene in one of his films. How can you have exploitation without nudity?
-----------
We forgot about the David Lynch films in our noir listings. You cannot get much better then Muholland Drive and at times, Blue Velvet.
BLADE RUNNER, etc.
BLADE RUNNER, much like a Voigt-Kapmf test, is a search for empathy - and empathy is more an integral element to film noir than pathos. Its many, eeriely prescient, stylistic extrapolations aside, it's not meant to serve the standard sf genre coventions - just as HIGH NOON isn't a by-the-numbers western, and ANNIE HALL isn't a "classic" romance. It's one of the saddest films I've ever seen.
I'd argue against CASABLANCA as noir, though; it's not suffocating enough. ALGIERS is far closer, as is TREASURE OF SIERRA MADRE (if you want more Bogart).
3 unrelated sidenotes:
a) For anyone who hasn't caught it, THIS is the great cautionary tale of the month:
http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=1635472
b) This is almost as funny:
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/trilogy.html
c) And sadly, the great percussionist Ray Barretto passed away the other day, which bums me out.
Elijah Newton wrote: "while I've never managed to get my hands on "New Rose Hotel" I've heard it mentioned in the same breath as "Waterworld."
Take my word for it, NEW ROSE HOTEL is a masterpiece. It certainly has its detractors, but they tend to be the kind of people who believe that films (or at least English-language films) should not have any ambitions beyond telling a story, and should certainly not indulge in narrative experimentation.
Ezra: When it comes to "Bladerunner", you also have Lucius Shepard on your side. I remember reading his remarks about the film in F&SF a few years back and he too was disappointed with it. So, y'know, he's pretty good company.
MW
I guess I'm in the minority because I didn't like BLADERUNNER. I thought it was all icing and no cake. Pretty to look at but not much going on there. And yes I saw the "Director's cut".
Style is not enough for me. There's got to be a solid core of..., well "substance" sounds too sentimental, and "meaning" sounds too academic, so I'll be scientific and say "valence".
Elijah: Sorry, I wasn't clear. I was refering to that "The Greatest SF movies that never were" link.
Dave Clark: Years ago I heard rumors that there was a "Mefisto in Onyx" movie project that involved Samuel L. Jackson. It was something I obviously found exciting, but I've heard little about it since. I gather it's as dead as "Neuromancer".
re 'Noir'
Steve B:
Ah, Casablanca and Blade Runner, they probably go without saying.
Probably my fault for starting the ball rolling with personal favorites. I guess the main points I take away from this thread are:
- We all dig movies (great, good, and occasionally gawdawful).
- We all probably have our own idea of what constitues 'noir'.
- There are a helluva a lot of great noirs whatever your definition; to pick a top 10 (or even 100) is surely impossible and meaningless. But some of us seem to get a buzz out of such lists.
- I was surprised by some of the movies Harlan included. Reservoir Dogs???!!! Sometimes Harlan's taste in movies bewilders me.
- Rather than rattling off all the mainstream classics we all know and love, I am pleased that Harlan cited some less well known works, some of which I haven't seen. This time last week I didn't know anything about Topkapi. Now I do. And one day I may even get to see it.
Global Warming (not starting an argument)
At least three times in the last four weeks I’ve found myself on the peripheral edges of a discussion relating to global warming. I have my own beliefs. However, like so many things in life, this belief is based on “what I heard” from “people I think I trust”.
It has come up too much lately, and I’ve decided I want to have informed arguments. What I’m looking for is science-based analysis. With that in mind, what sources would any of you suggest I peruse?
Thanks in advance
Mike
Do Androids Dream of Rick's Cafe?
Ah, Steve, you must correct yourself and give Robert his props. BLADE RUNNER appears two-thirds of the way through his extensive, and excellent, list.
D.
Late to the Noir, but still partying
(Ya leave town for a few days and looky what you miss...!)
It is with utter disbelief that I read and reread the lists of Film Noir greats as given by the noir-literate denizens of this board. While I was happy to see such films as LAURA, LIFEBOAT, 12 ANGRY MEN and BODY HEAT included, and a nod of mention to the various BODY SNATCHERS, I am appalled -- aghast even -- at the utter, complete and terrible omission of two of the greatest classics of the genre: BLADE RUNNER and (*ahem*) CASABLANCA.
(The purists may argue that CASABLANCA isn't pure noir, but -- except for "Paris" -- they're wrong, dead wrong.)
I'm cryin' over here.
David Irving gets 3 years prison time for denying the holocaust
I think that's crazy, but wouldn't it be nice if all liers could be locked up? Having differing points of view is one thing, but denying facts and deliberately lying is something else.
Harlan and Susan: Found an old bookmark on my computer when I was cleaning it out over the weekend...it led to a site that has 2 pictures of the exterior of your house, and one on the inside (all with Phil Farmer). Not sure if you know about it or not. I intended to tell you when I found it a long time ago, but I forgot.
-Keith
of Cats and Continents
Lee,
Yep. Back in the states since April last, and into the long-term domicile about August. As for the lovely Stormy, I think she's happier than we are to have been in the same roost for an extended period - no kennels, no cages, no airplanes.
Stormy wasn't fond of Arabic, and finds the southern drawl much more suited to her plaintive meows...and she never did socialize much with the Da' iya and Rawda locals anyway. (Mostly street cats in Kuwait and they were mean, tough, scrawny things - definitely not up to snuff for our little princess!).
sburnap: "Neuromancer" movie?!? Are you logging on from the future or the past, old son? To date there's nought but the book and, likely, a gleam in someone's eye.
Personally, I would be excited about speculation but "Johnny Mneumonic" left a bad taste in my mouth, and while I've never managed to get my hands on "New Rose Hotel" I've heard it mentioned in the same breath as "Waterworld."
Besides, much as I loved the Sprawl, the world has moved on. Gibson's classic has aged well, but doesn't have the same cultural relevance anymore.
Hunter/Hudson
Mr. E:
Forgive if you’ve already seen it, but I thought you might be interested in this essay on Even Hunter/Dean Hudson and the wild days of Hamling’s syndicates…
http://efanzines.com/EK/eI24/#jungle
Inabif
Not really noir but...
Dark Sky Films recently released a DVD of an unjustly little known police procedural, 1952's WITHOUT WARNING!, which deserves a look.
Also, Paramount recently issued the always underrated David Janssen's 1967 film, WARNING SHOT, which some of you might find interesting.
Yes, I can tell fantasy from reality (I hope!) Yet, sometimes a work of fiction is so realistically written, rings so true, that one just can't help but wonder if it has a basis in fact. Harlan, was your very short story, "Now YOU'RE in the Box!" based on something that actually happened?
Dear Frank,
As a deeply peaceful person, a feminist, a moviehead and a Tarantino fan, I can tell you I was not offended in the least by the Kill Bill movies. Quite the opposite. At the end of Kill Bill 2, I was ready to spit on the ground and listen for Clint Eastwood spaghetti western music in the background. I checked out black mambas. I did not say the ultra fake "You go girl."
Frank, Quentin likes us lots. Uma was left standing and David Carradine was not, remember? This almost never happens in the movies. Women always trip and fall running from monsters, passively die, or otherwise get victimized in films. It was so great to see a movie(s) where this didn't happen. Not only did she win, she won over a REALLY BIG TRICKY ENEMY (laughing). AND MEAN. AND THE FATHER OF HER KID. Take it from a woman, this man understands us REALLY WELL. It was high time a movie like this was made and he was just the guy to do it. Uma was a female hero in the best old fashioned Hollywood way (deliberate omission of the word "heroine").
And for any women out there who are trying to make themselves look extra feminine at my expense by saying, "Oh she's wrong, I'd NEVER be so masculine and violent!"---Admit it. We were all secretly rooting for her.
Peacefully,
Shelly
Brad Stevens wrote:
"Incidentally, I recently picked up a paperback of the Jack Finney novel, which originally appeared in 1955. The copy I have is a 1978 film tie-in edition. On the first page, the narrator notes that "For me it began around six o'clock, a Thursday evening, October 28, 1976". Was the novel rewritten to coincide (or almost coincide) with the period when Philip Kaufman's remake was released? Or was the original novel set in the future?"
It must have been the former. I've got a late 70's reprint replicating the original edition, with photos from the first movie and captions matching them to the corresponding chapters in the book. In this edition, the sentence reads, "For me it began around six o'clock, a Thursday evening, October 28, 1953..."
So there was some rewriting done. I wonder how much?
Lee,
I feel your pain, jobwise. I hope the transition is as painless as possible.
Chuck
Peg!
You're back in Texas?
Your cat must be pissed off.
All that effort learning how to meow in Farsi, and now it's good for nothing.
hardee har har
UNCA HARLAN,
when you need to laugh: who/what makes you laugh the hardest/longest?
sniggering baldfacedly before a video of Russell Edson doing his poetic thing,
Neal
sburnap,
There is no HE movie project called "Mephisto in Onyx."
Neri nailed, by a bus! Shit!
http://movies.yahoo.com/mv/news/ap/20060219/114040284000.html
Bud, of course nobody should steal one of your stories and put it online, that is not my point. I do admire people who allow certain works of theirs for free consumption, especially news items, which are important in getting out to as many people as possible. Information is power, it is not the fault of people who do not have money to not have the ability to buy that power.
-----------
Tarantino does treat violence like it was a tasty snack, with no ability to see that sometimes afterhour snacking is bad for the hips. His production of the awful Hostel is proof of that. Some exploitation has its place, but most of it is trash.
I do like Kill Bill, because of the humor and craft that is evident. This guy, no matter what you think of him, really likes making movies. His love is in blazing glory, on the screen.
Just that two shot of Uma in the bed and Elle coming to kill her, is classic.
"All the same, I never knew that there were four versions of INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS. I've seen the Don Siegel, Philip Kaufman, and Abel Ferrara versions. Can't think of any others, unless it was some cheesy, half-baked retread like THE PUPPET MASTERS."
There's a new Nicole Kidman vehicle which went into production under the title INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS, but is now scheduled to be released later this year as THE VISITING. It doesn't appear to be an 'official' remake of the Siegel film.
Incidentally, I recently picked up a paperback of the Jack Finney novel, which originally appeared in 1955. The copy I have is a 1978 film tie-in edition. On the first page, the narrator notes that "For me it began around six o'clock, a Thursday evening, October 28, 1976". Was the novel rewritten to coincide (or almost coincide) with the period when Philip Kaufman's remake was released? Or was the original novel set in the future?
Movies
That list is also missing "Neuromancer".
Speaking of anxiously awaited movies that never showed up, whatever happened with "Mephisto in Onyx"? Is that project dead?
film list
Dear Harlan:
Having gone through the list you sent in reply to Film Buff, I'd like to add my two cents. Though I consider myself an avid film-goer, it's only recently I've begun to expand my vocabulary, as it were. In this, Netflix has been a godsend.
All the same, I never knew that there were four versions of INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS. I've seen the Don Siegel, Philip Kaufman, and Abel Ferrara versions. Can't think of any others, unless it was some cheesy, half-baked retread like THE PUPPET MASTERS.
I'm glad EYES WITHOUT A FACE made the list, having just seen it. Another film I would recommend highly is ONIBABA.
Alex Schor
noir
Hi Harlan,
While I don't suggest it will replace any of your top ten pics, if you haven't seen it yet you might want to take a gander at 'Sin City.' I'm a bit unsure (though curious) about what you'll think of the violence, but if you were copacetic with Kill Bill than I doubt there's anything at which you'll bat a distasteful eye. (while the choreography of KB is astounding, there's something about Tarantino's flicks: I can never quite stomach the violent bits. SC didn't have this effect.)
Just a thought.
Contracts
Dear Harlan,
What Mark said. I willing admit to being a clueless tyro. But there just aren’t a lot of places for us tyros to go to learn this kind of thing, especially in my neck of the woods. It would be a great goodness if you would give us the benefit of your experience and let us see your contracts. Thanks.
Jim Reichert
Top 10 Science Fiction Movies Never Made and other thoughts
I would, of course, add our benevolent host's adaptation of "I, Robot" to this list of the Greatest Science Fiction films never made, of course, but I would say this is an interesting list:
http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/film/scifi.html
Bud, thank you for sending me a copy of "Christus Destitutus", I found it an excellent read, and wish you the best of luck on the upcoming Nebula awards. I will send you a personal email with specific comments.
Frank Church, your comments about Kill Bill confused me a little. Yes, there was violence towards women, but it seemed that just as many men were killed during the course of the films. I would argue that the Kill Bill films are pro-feminist as they portray powerful women who are excellent in their chosen craft, and don't (with one exception) take orders from anyone, man or woman.
For the author of "The Man who was Hevaily into Revenge"
http://www.salon.com/books/int/2006/02/20/miller/
The fine art of revenge
A legal scholar says that "eye for an eye" justice is a lot more humane than you think.
[Excerpt]
"Eye for an Eye" offers a closer look at "talionic" societies -- also known as honor- or revenge-based cultures. It features such strange artifacts as a price list from 7th century England dictating in great detail the number of shillings owed to a person suffering various injuries, from a broken arm to a lost toenail. (Did you know that the little finger was worth more than the index finger? As Miller, who mangled his own pinkie while playing with his son, found out, it's more crucial to maintaining a firm grip.) Or, rather, the compensation laws of King Aethelberht might seem bizarre until you realize that contemporary insurance companies probably have the same sort of lists. And contrary to what we tell ourselves, honor-based societies, Miller argues, often placed a higher value on human lives and human bodies than we do.
Miller insists that underneath our sophisticated modern rationalizations, we still harbor talionic beliefs that make us uneasy when wrongdoers don't pay for their crimes in exact proportion to the harm they cause. That's why, he says, we like stories about characters who even up the score with their enemies -- not just vigilante action films, but comedies in which, say, the bullied nerd triumphs in the end. That's why we're fascinated by revenge."
"SNOWS OF KILIMANJARO DISAPPEARING, GLACIAL ICE LOSS INCREASING "
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/scndkili.htm (Ohio State University)
on the road again....
Lee, you got my sympathies... hang in there buddy, one Fugawian to another. Someday, you can take joy in having the opportunity to live where you have regardless of how long. May you take with you the great memories, schlep through the transit in swift and painless fashion, and plant yourself quickly in new soils.
Peg
(who is revelling in the joy of having *not* moved in the last 6 months)
Trail of Tears
My plant is being closed down.
This means transfer to another site.
Which will make four moves in four years. Signs of the times.
Even for a spunky Fugawi tribesman, this is getting fatiguing.
Anyone got a spare set of dilithium crystals?
More Noir
Touch of Evil is definately a must have. Another one is Phil Karlson film called "The Phenix City Story" -- and yes that is the right spelling ---is one of the better tabloid-noir films of the 50's. Another one just released on DVD is "Nightmare Alley" with a terrific performance from Tyrone Power that was radical change on the costume epics he always seemed to be cast in.
For a good read on B-movies and some of the better 'noir' Directors, look for a Dutton Paperback called "King of the Bs" Edited by Todd McCarthy and Charles Flynn. My copy came from a film class I took in college back in the 70's. It has articles on Val Lewton, Roger Corman, Nightmare Alley, William Castle and Edgar G Ulmar. Well worth digging for.
Freedom of Information
To Frank:
I have no problem with bare-bones information being freely available. However, my stories, essays and articles are either entertainment or educational (or, if I'm lucky, both), and I insist on being paid for access to them.
"Uh...CHUCK in Frostbite Falls:
THE MALTESE FALCON was #2 on my "list of 10."
Sometimes you folks bewilder me.
Reeling, Yr. pal, Harlan"
I have no excuse for that. I can only say I'd been under the weather for a couple of days and wasn't exactly at the top of my game.
By the way, which Unholy Three were you talking about? The talkie or the silent?
Chuck
Harlan makes it fun to be here. Good to also see that he likes One Hour Photo, the Kill Bills and Angel Heart, which seems odd, especially knowing how much he hates violence towards womanfolk in movies.
I agree with stormproof contracts, but I also support the concept of free access to information. But, that is for another day.
Doh!
Please excuse the double post, but I cannot allow my claim that Irving Rapper directed MURDER BY CONTRACT to remain uncorrected. This film was, of course, directed by Irving Lerner.
Like I said, it happens to the best...
anything Peckinpah
i choose BRING ME THE HEAD OF ALFREDO GARCIA for my dark viewing.
Neal
Harlan - That's a great list of noirs. But if you like Walter Hill's THE DRIVER, I strongly suggest you take a look at Jean-Pierre Melville's LE SAMOURAI, of which THE DRIVER is an unofficial remake (with a ridiculous happy ending).
The absence of GILDA and TOUCH OF EVIL is presumably due to a memory lapse. Happens to the best, happens to the rest.
It's THE YAKUZA, not THE YAKUSA.
And I would like to draw your attention to a couple of sublime, shamefully underrated noirs: MURDER BY CONTRACT (1958, directed by Irving Rapper from a screenplay by Ben Simcoe), and THE UNDERWORLD STORY (1950, directed and co-written by future blacklist victim Cy Endfield).
S!:
Never said any such thing. You ought to read more better.
In fact, haven't even decided yet if I eventually WILL post the instruments. Still dwelling on it.
Doofus.
-he
Two more...
I'd add the largely-excellent PETE KELLEY'S BLUES (source of one of Our Host's all-time favorite lines of dialogue, by the late Richard L. Breen: "I came here for a meeting, not to listen to a banjo player who had himself a big breakfast.") Brilliant scripting by Breen, gorgeous design by Harper Goff (the man who brought Captain Nemo's world to glorious life on the big screen), standout performances by a good percentage of the large cast (with an unforgettably scary turn by wheezy, jovial Andy Devine as an iron-hard cop), and loving direction by jazz buff Jack Webb - whose acting is the sole sour note in the whole thing. (Breen was the man who taught the young Webb to underplay his roles, and over the years this seems to have developed a Pavlovian response of Webb turning into a humorless, lifeless rock in any Breen-written script.)
The other is the mid-'80s BBC miniseries EDGE OF DARKNESS. Six hours of twists, turns, paranoia and suspense that frequently equal the best of Hitchcock or Frankenheimer. Scripted by THE ITALIAN JOB's Troy Kennedy-Martin, scored hauntingly by Eric Clapton and with performances by Bob Peck and Joe Don Baker that will stun anyone whose only familiarity with their work is JURASSIC PARK in the case of the former and a pile of redneck-thug roles for the latter. (The comparison with Frankenheimer is probably closer than with Hitchcock; EDGE leaves the same lingering sense of shock and horror as the ending of SECONDS...and does it more than once over the course of the story. It's a true frightener.)
Cheers!
Don Hilliard
Movies
Pardon me if these movies have been mentioned but I'd recommend:
LoneStar
Smilla's Sense of Snow
The Man Who Wasn’t There
Dark City
Crime
I dunno if it's been mentioned, but one of all my all-time hidden classics is a little-seen film called THE SILENT PARTNER, with Christopher Plummer and Elliot Gould.
Harlan, posting a copy of your standard contract would be a great gift to the Webderland Commonweal.
MW
Contracts and Noir
About a dozen years ago, I started doing a monthly comics page with Kyle Baker for Vibe magazine and asked Harlan for any contractual advice he could give me. He faxed me his standard contract for magazine work, and it has saved me from being screwed out of dough countless times. And when I was an editor at Vibe, those were the terms I got for my writers. So I vote YES for posting HE's kevlaresque contracts somewhere on this site, as a public service.
Other noirish titles you all might check out: OUT OF THE PAST, DETOUR, THE LONG GOODBYE, MIAMI BLUES, THE KILLING, TAXI DRIVER, ATLANTIC CITY, RED ROCK WEST, THE CONVERSATION, DRUGSTORE COWBOY, WHO'LL STOP THE RAIN, CUTTER'S WAY, THE HOT SPOT, JOHNNY HANDSOME, BLOOD SIMPLE, THEY LIVE BY NIGHT, TO LIVE AND DIE IN L.A., THE LAST SEDUCTION, BLUE VELVET, PICKUP ON SOUTH STREET, UNDERWORLD U.S.A., LOS OLVIDADOS, MY LIFE TO LIVE, THE AMERICAN FRIEND, BLADE RUNNER, PEEPING TOM, EYES WIDE SHUT, DIVA, HARD BOILED, TRAINSPOTTING, NOTORIOUS, VERTIGO, INSOMNIA (the original, not the Pacino remake), THE LAUGHING POLICEMAN, IN A LONELY PLACE, RUNAWAY TRAIN, TOUCH OF EVIL, DIRTY HARRY, THE BEGUILED, THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY, MANHUNTER, THE PRESIDENT'S ANALYST (a dark comedy) and THE ESCAPE ARTIST (a dark kid's film).
Brian, do you mean the Bogie/Huston version of SLAYGROUND (script by Ernest Lehman, from the Richard Stark novel)? I caught it at Harlan's years ago - he had it in a Beta format - great flick! That funhouse scene with Peter Falk is terrifying.
I did an entry on my blog about my love of con games and caper movies, so films like _The Driver_ and _Rififi_ were on my mind a lot recently. (There's also AMC's British TV series "Hustle," which is worth a look, despite its recent re-do of the plot from _The Sting_. And it's nice to see Robert Vaughan at work again.)
But most of my favorites were on the list, and any that weren't, well, no biggie. I could toss in a few more, like _The Informer_ and _The Hot Rock_ and _The Killing_ and _The Testament of Dr. Mabuse_ and _Cotton Comes to Harlem_ and _L.A. Confidential_ and this great Bogie-Huston thing set in an amusement park I caught once.
Funny thing, that theater either went out of business, or burned down, 'cause it was gone the next day. Great popcorn, though.
the writer must get paid...
Once again, from the land of the confused...
I see that you said you will be posting, free of charge for all to see and use and modify as they see fit, the contracts that some WRITER made through the sweat of his brow and exercise of his intellect. Not just one contract, but multiple contracts to cover a variety of situations. All for FREE. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Nuttin' honey.
And then I recall hearing something, somewhere, somewhen, about the "writer must always get paid." (I think this is akin to the "rule 1 violation" lawyers use in court when *they* haven't been paid.) It didn't qualify anything about what the writer had produced, just that they ALWAYS GET PAID.
So please tell me this is philanthropy on your part, giving away your writing for free. The alternative is too horrible to contemplate.
S!
p.s. I went through the first box of books. 12 foreign editions so far. The rest went to a couple of local school libraries. I'll keep looking through the rest, as I recall seeing a copy of Millimondi (Autumno 1996) amongst it all. I encourage everyone to donate your "surplus" books to your local libraries and schools.
TONY:
You're absolutely right. Of course! I meant 10 RILLINGTON PLACE. Damn my cross-trained memory! And how the hell could I forget RIFIFI??!!!??
Uh...CHUCK in Frostbite Falls:
THE MALTESE FALCON was #2 on my "list of 10."
Sometimes you folks bewilder me.
Reeling, Yr. pal, Harlan
Movie list?
MOCKINGBIRD at least has the crime and trial elements -- the one I'm not sure of in the list is 84 CHARING CROSS ROAD. I'm assuming that was supposed to be 10 RILLINGTON PLACE?
And thanks for the list, Harlan. I love it when you do those lists of movies or books -- there's always something in the batch that I've never run across, or that I'd heard of and then forgotten about until nudged by the list.
Bests,
--tr
Movies
Here are a few more films that Film Buff may want to persue: The Films of Val Lewton, Mysterious Island (The Harryhausen Version) A Face in the Crowd, The Trial, The Last Waltz, Stop Making Sense (Concert films, but they still capture a moment in time like all good movies) The Quiet Man, The Informer, The Ox-bow Incident and just about any Laurel and Hardy short subject.
One film not yet mentioned was THE MALTESE FALCON. One of my favorites.
Harlan, two questions: 1. How does TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD qualify as noir? I find that interpretation intriguing. 2. Which version of THE UNHOLY THREE? The silent or the talkie? I like the ending of the silent better, and I think the young hero in the talkie gives off splinters, he's so wooden.
Chuck
Harlan,
As a one-big-story and several-smaller-stories amateur, I'd love for a way to get a gander at your contracts, especially since...well, you can ask Tim Richmond.
Thanks,
Bill
'Noir' movies
'Film Buff':
Ok, you didn't ask me, but if I may be permitted to suggest a favourite of my own .... the 1955 French movie 'Rififi'.
Harlan,
I have to say I like MURDER, MY SWEET, even if Dmytryk was a rat. Do you feel Faulkner's BIG SLEEP works or not? And how do you feel about Don Siegel?
Steve Dooner
Further to Jim (with abject apologies to Rick for multiple posts)
Jim, I think it was Fred Pohl (Harlan will correct me if I'm wrong) who said that all contracts should be written as if both parties will die the day after signing it, and their heirs HATE each other passionately. ALL contracts, even those (or maybe especially) those between friends. Nail it down so it won't bite either of you on the ass later.
I'm here, bubba
By all means post your contracts, Harlan. And yeah, there will be those trilobites who shake their finger at you, but screw 'em. Neophyte writers need to understand earlier and earlier that contracts are NOT necessarily immutable, that boilerplate CAN be changed (I did it myself with my second sale to Analog) without the publisher gnashing their teeth, muling or puking, and/or bubbling and perhaps blaspheming at the center of the universe.
As long as they get what they want, it doesn't matter much whether you or they supply the legalese.
I will caution, however, that this is frequently easier to do at the top than at the bottom. Semi-pro markets can be despairingly hard-shelled about contracts and the terms they impose - and how they interpret those terms. In two cases, I've stopped submitting non-fiction work at all because the editors in question interpreted "on publication" to mean "whenever I damn well feel like it." In one case, I had to threaten action with the SFWA Grievance Committee in order to get paid, which effectively ended our working relationship; and in the other, met the editor's excuse of "Well, it's only $25 dollars, can't you wait?" with the reply "Yeah, it's only $25. Stop drinking lattes for a week and PAY ME." He didn't understand - and has never understood, and will never understand; I'm not the only writer to have a problem with him - that "on publication" means that I get a check when I get my file copies. Not four months later.
Both these editors are well-known as pros as well as semi-pros, both contracts were written clearly, and they just paid when it damn well suited them. Mary, god love her, cautioned me about "burning bridges" with these two editors, but who wants to work for a skinflint who can't dig through his pocket for a couple of fins and a ten-spot, or who just can't seem to remember from one day to the next what promises he made to whom?
These are NOT horror stories, by the way, Jim. Far from it, they're too common to be horrible. Ask Unca Harlan about horror stories - mention the name Carol Rinzler - and he'll whip off a dozen or more off the top of his head. But nobody stiffs Mon-sewer Ellison twice, even assuming they're foolhardy enough to do it once. And same should go for you, and all of us who are foolish enough to have to write. If you're careful, you can set things up so that the penalties for doing so far outweigh the benefits.
REPLY TO FILM BUFF
Sir or Madame:
I truly dislike replying to someone whose name I don't know, but perhaps civility will soften your heart.
This is by no means a definitive list, and I KNOW the instant I'm done picking through immediate memory for a mere 10, I'll think of 23 more that SHOULD have been in the mix. But, well, what the hell, here's which films pop to mind on a moment's dwelling:
SECONDS
THE MALTESE FALCON
NORTH BY NORTHWEST
THE USUAL SUSPECTS
M
THIS GUN FOR HIRE
THE THIRD MAN
THE BIG CLOCK
GASLIGHT
WAGES OF FEAR (and Friedkin's version, SORCERER)
geezus, THE LADY FROM SHANGHAI, MR. ARKADIN, FORCE OF EVIL, LA BONNE ANNEE, IN COLD BLOOD, TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD, THE CAT PEOPLE (the original version), THE LEOPARD MAN, MISSISSIPPI MERMAID, THE DRIVER, POINT BLANK, THE YAKUSA, THE WOMAN IN THE WINDOW, RUN LOLA RUN, RESERVOIR DOGS, almost all of the THIN MAN films, AGATHA, MURDER ON THE ORIENT EXPRESS, ALWAYS OUTNUMBERED/ALWAYS OUTGUNNED, WHILE THE CITY SLEEPS, WAIT UNTIL DARK, THE VERDICT, INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS (3 of the 4 versions), KEY LARGO, KILL BILL 1 and 2), ANGEL HEART, RASHOMON, STRAY DOG, THE BAD SLEEP WELL, ASPHALT JUNGLE (oh gawd yes!), 84 CHARING CROSS ROAD, RAW DEAL (the original), DUEL, LAURA, LIFEBOAT, THE OLD GUN, ONE HOUR PHOTO, THE NIGHT OF THE HUNTER, THE POSTMAN ALWAYS RINGS TWICE and DOUBLE INDEMNITY (the originals), REAR WINDOW, SUNSET BOULEVARD, SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, THE 39 STEPS, TOPKAPI, TOWN WITHOUT PITY, 12 ANGRY MEN, BODY HEAT, HOUSE OF GAMES, THE GLASS KEY, THE GRIFTERS, THE HARDER THEY COME, HARD TIMES, COUP de TORCHON--aka CLEAN SLATE--(the FABULOUS French film starring Phillipe Noiret and Isabelle Huppert, directed by Bernard Tavernier early in his career, brilliantly adapted from Jim Thompson's POP. 1280), THE BRIDE WORE BLACK, CHARADE, the tv mini-series CHIEFS, LES YEUX SANS VISAGE--aka EYES WITHOUT A FACE, FREAKS, DIABOLIQUE, THE OUTFIT, ON THE YARD, PRIZZI'S HONOR, BAD DAY AT BLACK ROCK, THE LIMEY, THE LONG GOOD FRIDAY, MAD LOVE, MISERY, Lon Chaney in THE UNHOLY THREE, THINGS CHANGE, SCARFACE (1932 Paul Muni version, not that Pacino overacted bloodfest piece of stinkin' fish), DEAD OF NIGHT...
...and about a hundred more I cannot pull from memory right now.
Yr. pal, Harlan
CHARLIE:
Yes, indeed, I have a contract. In fact, SEVERAL contracts, to fit specific uses. The first is the basic reprint contract I've been using for thirty years. I devised it and have revised it repeatedly to cover changes in the industry and technology. It is VERY author-friendly, and serves eminently for 96.5% of all sources that come to me for more than 200 different reprints a year. For 3.5% of the sources, such as Big Publishers who are spoiled by amateurs like Reichert who give things away (or who unquestioningly, or ignorantly, sign whatever piece of inadequate shit is put before them), my contract makes them red in the face. They are affronted that Spartacus/Oliver Twist dares to question their hegemony, their obdurate right to stick it to you, their stance as the Deity. Because it doesn't give them all rights--film, tv, book club, merchandising, foreign editions, paperback reprint, unlimited extensions till the end of eternity, recording and spoken word, anthology, etc.--they balk. They bluster, they stonewall. I do not budge. I will accomodate, I will negotiate, but it's my contractway or the highway. Yes, I lose some piddling one-two- maybe even three-hundred dollar pisher reprints, but the work remains MINE and not the undervalued property of some mooching university anthologist or Big Publisher of sausage-link books or duplicitous pb anthology publishers who sell their books sub-rosa overseas, multiple times. It is a clear, concise, one-page-both-sides contract that is INFINTELY BETTER than the boilerplate SFWA instrument.
Another contract is one Susan came up with, to be returned and signed by academic photocopying services who want to include my stories in text-anthologies, course-packets, classroom curricula printouts for students, etc. I try to steer them to Fictionwise.com who have made about a hundred of my stories available for a pittance, but for 99.7% of all other queries (about 100 a year) we use Susan's one-page contract. It's ironclad, it's simple, it's no-nonsense.
For book contracts with publishers large or small, we start with THEIR offered contract, to which we insist addition of three or four non-negotiable clauses, and then we go from there. Each case is different, and I resort to my contract-smarts and experience to work out a paper amenable to both sides. I have given "seminars" on this repeatedly, to college writing groups, SFWA meetings, on the internet, and to workshops. Sometimes they pay attention, sometimes they don't.
Overcoming their cultural cringe at even ASKING to be paid, like the Reichert who "broke bread and hoisted beer steins" and confused friendship with business, has been the biggest problem. And it infuriates me, because it makes dealing with publishers as a PROFESSIONAL: that much harder, because they seem to think they have a limitless stash of amateurs whose befuddled brains do not understand that
WRITING
IS A
COTTAGE
INDUSTRY
and you MUST, YOU MUST, NO EXCEPTIONS, YOU MUST, ALWAYS ALWAYS
G E T P A I D ! ! !
(And Reichert, I tried to save you the embarrassment of REALLY looking like a tyro, by blusteringly insisting you NOT recount the story/reasons why you made that deal. Your explanation is so classically dopey, that you clearly do not perceive when someone who loves you is trying to do you a solid, and trying to save you from further getting yolk on your puss. But no, you had to try to end-run my warning. Well, see how imbecile your "rationale" reads, in retrospect? Don't you people EVER pay attention?)
So, Charlie, yes...I have a contract or two that I've used for at least thirty years. Putting it (or them) up here may be doable, if I get it (them) to Rick, and he can scan them in without my imposing on what's left of his life. But it may not be such a hot idea because, fer shur, someone from some other venue will hear of it, come in, and start explaining why my philosophy of YOU GOTTA GET PAID is wrong, isn't hard and fast because--blah blah blah, or will devise some non sequitur scenario where my position might cause you a $20 sale, or so on and so on. So I'll run it past Adam (are you listening, pal?) and Steve Utley (yo, Steve!) and Bud (is you there, chum?) and even Neil Gaiman and Peter David and anyone else who is a pro who lurks here--no one-sale amateurs, please--and then I'll decide if taking one more last weary stab at letting light into your brains is worth the inevitable shitrain under which I'll find myself.
Yr. pal, Harlan
OUCH!
Dear Harlan,
OUCH! Consider me properly chastised, I have stood in the corner, written 100 times “I will not...” and rapped myself on the knuckles with a ruler. (Is my Catholic upbringing showing or what?) But I still thank you for the advise. If I didn’t learn my lesson before I certainly did now.
And to save you my mewling, puking, toe-scuffling, topknot-yanking explanations, circumstances, situations or minutiae of why you did such a moron, amateur, asinine thing, skip the next bit directed to Bud and Adam.
Dear Bud & Adam,
Thank you as well. In hindsight I agree I should have banged the table and insisted. But I know these people personally, see them at cons regularly, broken bread and hoisted a drink or three together with them. This was supposed to be the next step up for them and myself to a semi-pro status. I learned afterward that the two people running the publisher, a married couple, were in the midst of a separation and eventual divorce at the same time. Everything went on hiatus (the chapbooks, the magazine, the website), and has just started to come back to life now under the editor’s sole stewardship.
Understand, I’m an attorney in my day job (a prosecutor for the State), and actually drafted a contract using the form contract on the SFWA web site, but never got it back. I should have hung tough. Dispossessing widows and orphans is first-year law school stuff, so this shouldn’t have been hard. Oh well.
In any event, I thank one and all for the opinion on this NOT being a reprint. I plan to submit it around, I like it much more than the original. Lawyer that I am, I will include a disclaimer in the cover letter about “. . . portions being previously published in . . . “. Later.
Jim Reichert
Harlan, Do you have a standard publishing contract that you provide to publishers that could be posted on this site (with name references deleted or blacked out)? Could be helpful as a guide. Thanks.
Hi Harlan: What are your 10 favorite mystery or film noir movies and is "DOA" one of them?
For Jim R.
Jim, in cases where you're dealing with a small press - especially an on-line small press - it might not be a bad idea to put together your own boilerplate contract in case they don't have one (and you should *never* conduct business with a "publisher" who doesn't offer you a contract; I did once, and it took me almost three years to get paid). It should define which rights, for how long, and payment specifics. If you're dealing with small/semi-pro presses, chances are you're never going to get better than Payment on Publication (rather than on Acceptance), but it's better than Payment on Lawsuit (Harlan, tell him about Sol Cohen).
I know of several writers who use their own contracts instead of the one offered by the market; unless it contains something really egregious, it's a workable possibility.
Remember: money flows TO the writer, not away - and it MUST flow. Dunno about you, boychik, but for me, writing is *work.*
REPLIES TO REICHERT AND WEBSTER
JIM:
It is ABSOLUTELY not a reprint. You are free to do with it what you will. But, and I mean this is in the kindest way possible...
You are a brain-dead, pathetically-amateurish, know-nothing idiot and embarrassing-to-your-species asshole. DO NOT EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER give away your work, you moron!!!!! Haven't you paid ANY ATTENTION AT ALL to what I've been saying here, over and over and over since Rick founded this website in 1887, that the difference between idiot asshole amateurs, and professionals (some of whom REMAIN i.a.a.) is that the latter get PAID FOR THEIR WORK? Even if it's ten bucks. They GOTTA pay. Repeat after me, you jamook, T H E Y
G O T T A
P A Y ! ! ! !
Something, anything. Doesn't matter that they're "just fans," that they plead poverty, that they're only doing 50 copies. No one properly appreciates that which they get for free; and no one who gets writing for free has any idea what a precious cargo they're shipping out to the public. They had to pay the typesetter, or the printer, or the electric company or the phone company or AOL or who-the-hell-ever, but YOU SHOULD WORK FOR NOTHING TO FEED THEIR HOBBY???? What are you, an imbecile? Don't ANY of you but Bud and Adam and a few others, GET IT!?! Let them set the price if you are so craven and devoid of confidence in yourself and your work that you haven't got the sense or the balls to say, "I'll take $25 for first pub rights. Let them set the price first, after you've told them, "Yes, you can publish it, but I'm a professional, and I MUST RECEIVE A FEE," and then, whatever they offer...accept it. And get a contract with a reversion clause. That is, it should say, "you have First North American non-professional magazine rights" (or whatever)for a period of 7 months, or 12, or 20 (or whatever! just make sure their term of ownership of those rights has a hard'n'fast terminus date. At which point it reverts automatically to you.
I'm not gonna tell you this again.
And spare me the mewling, puking, toe-scuffling, topknot-yanking explanations, circumstances, situations or minutiae of why you did such a moron, amateur, asinine thing.
Just never do it again.
Yr. pal, Harlan
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUD: I called Steve Pendergrast at fictionwise.com today, and asked him to download and fax me a copy of your story. If Adam vouches for it, well, then it's worth my time to read. I want you to know this, however: if I vote for it...it'll be the first Nebula vote I've entered in more than twenty years.
So that fucker better be CORUSfuckinCATING, son.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Django and Stephane
To Jim Davis:
Thank you for the link. Incredible to watch. I got the chance to see Stephane Grapelli a few years before he passed away. Watching the 80(?)-year-old handle the violin as if he were in his 20s was inspiring (The only thing more inspiring, the only time members off the band actually asked me why I was playing so much better, was after getting to watch Johnny Gimble live.)
Is there anyone out there who is doing anything like Grapelli did? Is there any jazz violin (not jazz-fusion) worth the listen?
Mike
Friday Lunchtime Story
Given a rather large and stressful merger environment at my company, once a week or so the work group I belong to (euphemistically referred to as a "sales team" in some quarters) heads away from the office to have lunch at one of the "legendary" LA spots. Previous weeks have taken us to Philippe's (for roast beef), the Pantry (several items available); the Fish Place just east of downtown, and the oldest remaining McDonald's in Downey.
Today, at my suggestion, we et at Pink's. Best Hot Dogs in the world, as you've read here on the Pavilion. I had the "Mulholland Drive", a heart-stopping combination of 10" dog, grilled onions and mushrooms, bacon and a topping of the slurpiest nacho cheese in the world.
On the way back to the office Harlan's buddy Prince Myshkin was introduced to the group (on tape), earning laughter and a little applause as we tooled southbound on the 101.
_________________________________________
I downloaded and printed out Bud's "Christus Destitutus", reading it this afternoon. Let me second (third?) the recommendation.
_________________________________________
Harlan: Spoke with Danny and he may have told you but he and his partner are checking out the system this weekend. Stay tuned.
_________________________________________
Susan: Got the package from you a couple of days ago and have been remiss not thanking you profoundly and frequently. Very, very much appreciated. Thank you.
And with that, it's a weekend.
Vaya con pollo.
Django meets the Crossraods
One of the nice things about CDs is that eventually some of the best music comes back into print. Besides many reissues of Dejango's recording the classic Joe Pass album "For Dejango" is on CD again. Pass is one of the great jazz guitarist who on stage will spend as much time berating the rudeness of his audience (talking, ordering drinks, standing up to signal someone) as he does playing. But when he plays, usually solo, people get quiet and listen.
Selections include "Nuages", "Fleur D'Ennui", "Night and Day" and "Rosetta". If you want to hear one of the great players, this is not a bad place to start.
As for Robert Johnson, the library of congress just discovered what is to believe to be the sole surviving letter written by Robert Johnson. Proving that something never change its to a record company executive asking about late payments.
Reprints
This is my second post today, in answer to a direct question; I apologize to Rick and Harlan if this pushes the boundaries, and will endeavor to not do so again.
Answer to reprint question: many editors will appreciate having the nature of prior publications explained to them in a cover letter. I know that F & SF has frequently reprinted stories that appeared in chapbooks or small venues. If you really think the editor is likely to be snarky about such a thing, send a separate query before submitting. Otherwise, explain the circumstances in the query letter. Don't make the negative decision on the editor's behalf; a query letter covers a lot of sins. A-TC
To Jim Davis: THANK YOU for that Django film. I've never seen the many play either, and I had no idea that he'd ever been filmed. To actually see him play, seeing those two fingers push the strings into unreachable notes, with Stephane Grappelli creating sounds that would charm the most jaded of angels... that was a real treat. I'm keeping that on my laptop for easy reference.
Oh, I did see if Django had been filmed elsewhere. There was a film called _Django_, a documentary made after his death, where he exists in archive footage. The film was written by Chris Marker, and the narration was written by Jean Renoir and read by Yves Montand. Time to go shopping, I guess.
As for Robert Johnson, the closest we're like to come is a brief clip at the beginning of Walter Hill's _Crossroads_ that depicts his recording in a hotel room, and _Love in Vain_, a really good script by Adam Greenberg that was published a few years back. John P. Hammond did do a decent documentary about Johnson that turns up on the Ovation network occasionally.
What is a reprint?
Hi all!
I have a question for Unca Harlan in particular, but all you folks passing through here as well. It relates to when a story is considered a reprint. I’ll explain.
In December, 2004, a small press/fanzine publisher issued a chapbook collection of several of my short stories at the Philadelphia Science Fiction Convention (Philcon). As far as I know, they printed up about 50 copies and sold perhaps a dozen. I actually manned their table at Philcon and autographed a number of copies that sold. Like most of these publishers, this was a 2-3 person operation, which split up shortly after this. The chapbook has not sold any further copies, nor is it being offered for sale at this time. The final point is that I never signed a contract with the publisher, although I requested one. This was supposed to be a royalty based arrangement, but I’ve never received anything.
Since then, I revisited one of the stories and substantially rewrote it, retitling it and cutting the length by half. So if I were to offer this to another publisher, would this be a reprint? I have no problem stating that portions of the story have appeared in the chapbook in another of my short stories, but I honestly don’t see this as a reprint. Understand, I am not trying to mislead or deceive anybody. But I would hate to simply put the new story away, since most publishers don’t accept reprints from relative unknowns like myself. I would appreciate your opinions.
Jim Reichert
Attention: Harlan and all jazzbos
Here is an honest-to-god, actual video clip (12 meg, Quicktime file) of Django Reinhardt and his Hot Club Quintet playing "J'Attenndrai": http://blogfiles.wfmu.org/KF/2006/02/django.mov
Besides the sheer awesomeness of finally seeing Django play, this confirms something I've always suspected--though his pinky and ring fingers were useless for playing single-note lines, he COULD, in fact, use them to form octaves and chords. Now if someone can only dig up some legit Robert Johnson footage, I can die a satisfied man . . .
Electric Company is Great
Funny the subject of the Electric Company being re-released is coming up. I had the 4 disc DVD set delivered on Monday and have been watching them an episode at a time with my 3 year old and 18 month old boys.
I am amazed by the quality of the writing and how they are able to make educational topics so much fun. As several people have mentioned both Morgan Freeman and Rita Moreno were popular figures on the show, but there were a number of other stars featured.
Bill Cosby is a frequent contributor and there is voice work done by both Joan Rivers and Gene Wilder, with some of the writing done by Mel Brooks, according to the DVD notes.
The DVDs span a period from 1971-1977 and they have brought back a lot of memories. Including the first time I ever saw Stevie Wonder. He performed "Superstition" on Electric Company (although it could have been Sesame Street, there was significant cross over between the two)in the early 1970s and it made a tremendous impression on me.
I would highly recommend this DVD for anyone with young children, or if you just want to relive some childhood memories
Waving Hand Behind Bud
I not only read the story, but am one of the folks whose recommendations brought it to its place on the ballot.
So I urge voters and non-voters alike to check it out, as a goodie.
Unmitigated Self-Promotion
Sometime in the next week or so, the Final Nebula Ballot will be announced. I *may* be on it. Maybe. I made the prelim, but all you need for that is ten friends, and it certainly doesn't guarantee a place on the short-list.
But I'm proud of the story, I think it's the best I've ever done, maybe the best I'll ever do.
Be that as it may, though, I'm making no plans to spend a weekend this spring in Tempe, and I ain't hiring Omar the Tentmaker to fit me for a tux; there is plenty of competition for the Lucite paperweight this year, and to be brutally honest, nobody knows who the hell I am. So, my chances approach those of a Dairy Queen franchise in Dis.
Nevertheless, I was asked by FictionWise to allow them to put the story on-line for people to read, and I agreed. It's there, it's free with a FW account (which is also free), at least until after the Nebs, at which time it'll cost you, you cheap bastards.
The story is titled "Christus Destitutus," and it was originally published in _Crossroads: Tales of the Southern Literary Fantastic_, edited by Brett Cox and Andy Duncan, and published last year by Tor. It's a dark fantasy about the Second Coming (and second death) of Christ, and has been described as "the illegitimate child of John Campbell and Flannery O'Connor." Well, I'd have said C. M. Kornbluth, but you get the idea.
Adam-Troy has already read it, I think, but if anyone else would like to, just go to www.fictionwise.com, sign up (if you aren't already), plug the title into the search engine, and "buy" it. Again, it's free. Anybody who doesn't want to mess around with FictionWise, I'll be happy to send you a copy as an attachment. Or, failing that, a hard copy, if you send me your address.
Please note that I'm not trying to garner Nebula votes here. I don't know how many SFWA Actives there are in the Pavilion, sipping tall, cool glasses of Aunt Granny's, but I suspect there are only a handful. I just am proud of the story and would like to brag - gently, I hope - about its having gotten this far in the process.
TO LEE
I guess I am a survivor. After all most of the people my age have either sent themselves into an drug induced oblivion, working on their fourth or fifth marriage, or trying like hell to get another job, after being layed off after thirty or forty years with the same company...and finding nobody wants old gizzers after the age of fifty to work for them. Yeh...I am a survivor....looking forward to retirement, so that I can write full time instead of hit and miss like I have been doing for over forty years!
The Electric company? Are we talking the one with live action spider man shorts where he took on a Yeti who sat on people's ice cream cones, and guy with a red nose? And Silent E? The memory is as faint as a week old dream, but still very much there.
I watched way too much tv.
THE BEST OF PHILIP JOSE FARMER
ALL: Not an announcement of anything Ellison related, but since Harlan helped get him recognized by the folks who hand out SFWA Grandmaster Awards, you might want to pick up a copy of what I (and quite a few others) think is the best single volume anthology of Philip Jose Farmer's work thus far. THE BEST OF PHILIP JOSE FARMER (Subterranean Press/572 pages, ISBN 1-59606-036-0) can be had in hardcover for a measly $38.00. It's got everything from "The Lovers" to "Riders of the Purple Wage" (the ultimate in Farmer short fiction), "Riverworld" (the novella which grew into a series) and "The Henry Miller Dawn Patrol" (a wangdoodle of an erotic short story). If your local independent or chain bookstore can't order the book for you using the ISBN above, got to Subterranean's website (www.subterraneanpress.com) and order directly from them. You'll thank yourself for this essential addition to your library.
(And just to ease anyone's mind, I'm not set to get any royalties or kickbacks from the sales -- I just think it's a damn fine collection).
Stan,
Is 60 where you start being a survivor?
Or does that start when you are born?
THE ELECTRIC COMPANY
"I'm Vincent, the Vegetable Vampire,
potatoes have eyes for me--Can't you see?
I'm Vincent the Vegetable Vampire,
Living in the garden of your dreams."
as performed by Morgan Freeman
Lectric Co
And to top it further off, it spawned the Marvels series of Spidey Super Stories. I haven't seen them in ages, but I think Romita did some of the covers. Hey, Watchmen and Sandman they ain't, but this is my childhood we're talkin bout here.
Cheers,
Paul
And to top it off, "The Electric Company" had Morgan Freeman as a featured player throughout its run.
D.
*** HEY YOUUU GUUYYYYYSSSSS!!! ***
Anyone remember the show The Electric Company from back in the late 70's? Yeah, I'm dating myself here (and, by extension, anyone who remembers it -- sorry!). It was one of the greatest childrens' shows ever, and it completely blew Sesame Street out of the water. It was Mad TV for kids. It was great!!
It's now out on DVD!!!
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000AA4F2O/qid=1140133282/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-5664105-4492606?s=dvd&v=glance&n=130
Check it out!!
Mouth, Scream, blah, blah, blah...
Marci,
The game is indeed designed to run on Windows 95 and 97. I have Win98 and it runs fine on that. My friend Paul has a newer computer and never could get it to run on his computer.
I, also, think you might try the compatibility thingee (high-tech lingo).
In the hardcover instruction book are some suggestions, and also some phone numbers. I would suspect that the numbers are obsolete because they are so old (but you may already know that), but here they are.
Technical assistance: 1-818-222-9348.
On-line support: 1-800-524-3388. (CompuServe)
Game play hints: 1-900-407-4468 $0.95 per minute.
Purchase strategy guide: 1-818-225-1049.
One last bit about Scream. On page 36 of the instruction booklet, it says:
"Well-known as a social critic and cultural gadfly, Ellison..."
Couldn't that have been?:
"Well-known as a social gadfly and cultural critic, Ellison..."
ComiCon
The benefit of living in SoCal is that the drive down the coast is the biggest issue -- well, that and the %$#@ing parking.
I'm coming down with a friend either Friday or Saturday. Got to admit, the bestest, coolest thing I found last year were the evil Teddy Bears. (And running into an old friend who's now got his own comic studio.)
Ah, the memories.
Boy, ask a tech question and the PC nerds on this board show their true colors….not that there’s anything wrong with that! The scary thing is that I used to know all that stuff back in the days when I had to help Debbie configure the PC everytime she bought a new game. I finally threw up my hands and bought her a Playstation (and, subsequently, Playstation 2) as long as she would promise to keep her mitts and games off our PCs before she blows them all up with an errant DoomRocket or somesuch. Best investment I ever made.
Yep, I am an IT Manager who’s the least techy person in the department. Delegation is a wonderful thing.
Speaking of nerds: I just got my hotel reservation for the San Diego Comic-Con. Man, talk about a mad dash….the reservations opened yesterday at 10am PST and by the time I got through at 10:45am most hotels were already closed out. Got the Radisson, like last year, a bit of an iffy hotel and neighborhood but perfectly suitable due to a wonderful shuttle system to the convention center.
A couple of years ago I had been inquiring on this board about suggestions for attending the Con now that we were living in the West. I got some good suggestions (even from Harlan….but hey, I’ll vacation in La Jolla another time when I can hang around and enjoy it) and then we made the plunge last summer. I was warned about it being too commercial and too crowded and too this and too that, but we had a blast and plan on making it an annual Cassel Tradition (as with our bi-annual-when-Harlan-attended-I-Con-In-Long-Island back when we lived in NJ).
Crowds be damned, it’s fun to float around the dealer floor and see what interesting things you can find. I purchased a terrific Monkey No See, Hear, Speak wood carving there! The best time, though, is at the panels. You can’t top our first hour at the con for first impressions: getting in late afternoon on a Thursday and immediately sitting down at a David Cronenberg panel as he discussed his work and his (then) upcoming The History Of Violence. The wealth of panels is key, as you should be able to find something to do there from morning to midnight regardless of your interests.
Yes, it’s chockfull of commercialism, and you’re constantly bumping up against a crowd…but hey, even in the crowd you gotta love seeing and photographing all those nuts in costume even when there isn’t a costume show scheduled!
The hotels cost money, but hey, I would spend that much in a nice Vegas casino hotel, and more if I were staying in Manhattan on vacation. Budget it right, and you can have a great time.
This has not been a paid advertisement. I was simply inspired by the fact that I nailed a room on the first day and can now plan the rest of my trip.
Ciao. -TODD
Running old programs in XP
Marci, you may be able to run "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" under "compatibility mode." I use a number of older programs that way, including Harlan's game.
To bring up the compatibility mode, right-click on the game's icon and pick the very last item on the menu you get: "Properties."
The box that comes up will have three choices as "index tabs" --these will be GENERAL, SHORTCUT and COMPATIBILITY.
Click on the last. The new menu that pops up allows you to change various things, but most importantly gives you the option to "run this program in compatibility mode for" (followed by a pop-up menu of different versions of Windows, all the way back to Windows 95).
I run Harlan's game under 95. This works on one of my computers, but not the other. Go figure.
Re - Marci's PC question
Marci:
This looks like a sound driver problem people have had with other games. I believe it's something to do with XP needing VESA support. You *may* be able to fix the problem by installing the free downloadable program VMDsound (and possibly also VDMS Launcher).
Haven't used these progs myself, and I have never seen the IHNMAIMS game, so I couldn't comment further. YMMV, as they say.
The safe option is to give up playing games and read books instead. Now that is something I can vouch for!
Katsulas was a *wonderful* character actor. It has been some time since I watched a b5 episode but I remember G'Kar as well as the rest VERY vividly. He will be missed.
Marci/John...Ugh. Planned obsolescence strikes. When did they last make Win98? the XP machine I'm using right now (120GB hard drive, 512MB RAM) is 3 years old! Pre-XP systems are probably old enough to be total junk and people throw them out. (The hard drive on the W95 machine my dad got in 1996 was smaller than the one in an iPod. I think the RAM was 32 meg but you could expand it to 64 or 96!) So if your game really is usable only on obsolete machines you could hunt around for an old pc and keep it out of a landfill. Maybe you can get someone to put the old DOS boot files on a floppy and startup from that??? Used to be a common method of troubleshooring old games...
Eric, etc: everything gravitating to the lowest common denominator seems tobe the price of democracy :(
Stan: Happy B-day even if it is a little early. Flying car? I want my holographic tv! (The four inch thick ones you can hang on the wall are pretty cool though even if they are still 2D...)
Kristin
Hitting the big 60 and other musings
Well guys and gals...in less than six days I will be celebrating sixty years on this wonderful, awful, fantastic, dreadful and beautiful planet we call Earth. Thought a few years ago I would never make it to the 21st Century...well...I made it. Still not published or produced, but now I just don't give a shit either way. Thought I would see "flying Deloreans" by now but no sir...looks like anti-gravity is still as elusive as ever for us mere mortal humans. Oh yes...we do have Area 51 don't we...another government nut we haven't cracked as mere citizens of this great country. Seems like we are all still trapped in the 20th Century, in certain technological areas.
Anyway...just a few musings...by the way...I have submitted another 15 pages of a screenplay to the Writer's Digest Contest..made 88th a few years back...maybe I can get at least up to First Place.
Reply to Marci
Re: "Is there any reliable source to find tech support for Harlan's "I Have No Mouth..." PC game? I had a sudden urge to play it again and have found I cannot get it running on a WinXP platform (it cannot open the MDI.INI file)."
Marci, I don't have a copy of the game, but since it came out several years ago, is it possible that it works only under Windows 95/98? If it doesn't list Windows NT (the predecessor to Windows 2000) as a suitable platform (the requirements should be on the side of the box), then you may not be able to play it at all under Windows XP. (2000 and XP use the NT memory management system; W95 and W98 were largely built on top of MS-DOS. Consequently, some older computer games won't run on anything but W95/W98.)
-- Jon
I've never watched American Idol. When I heard that only solo singing was showcased, I thought how boring...why not bands, or jugglers, or comics? It sounded to me like a look into people's showers, where we all are Carusos.
I've heard about the show, of course...particularly that Paula Abdul slept with a contestant, and that there's some British guy named Simon who wears low neckline pullovers and comes on like an ass. But I've never seen a minute of it. Of course, I've never seen a second of Sex in the City, Desperate Housewives, the Sopranos, or Friends either.
The lust for fame, and the bucks that come with it, is a wierd drug in America. Those that do make it are never satisfied. Rock stars want to be actors, actors want to be rock stars, directors do cameos, actors want to direct, writers want their books made into movies, songwriters want to be heralded as poets, and a tenth of any them run for office...it's an endless chase for a bigger high.
And of course when you really get famous and rich, and have some looks, then you resent the ongoing lack of privacy, the inability to do normal things like buy a hamburger, and the paucity of real relationships in your life. You get fucked up all the time, divorced, and hide in some California villa with your handlers, all the while worrying about being screwed over by some producer, agent, or attorney.
Craziness. This is what these pilgrims on American Idol want, and weep passionately when they think it's out of reach. I think I'd just like to bed Paula and then go home.
I Have No Mouth (PC) question...
Is there any reliable source to find tech support for Harlan's "I Have No Mouth..." PC game? I had a sudden urge to play it again and have found I cannot get it running on a WinXP platform (it cannot open the MDI.INI file).
Many thanks!
Marci
Idol Neep
What I find interesting, in my exposures to the show, are the contestants who react to elimination by weeping that their musical careers are "over."
Excuse me? Like this crapshoot was your only possible route to a musical career?
This is the moral equivalent of a writer throwing up his hands the first time he cannot get into a prestige anthology. I mean, that EMEMPLIFIES the dictum that if you can be discouraged, you should be.
The thing that really bugs me about American Idol is that large numbers of people believe that anyone who becomes successful in music (or by extension any other endeavor) are merely lottery winners. That's why that particular game show works so well.
It was very telling when a losing contestant remarked that it was his life's ambition to sing in front of an audience, but he would have to wait until next year's American Idol to have another shot at it.
Granted, there's always a little bit of luck involved, but it's the kind that you create through getting your lazy ass out in front of an audience, playing the best material you can, then learning the lessons afterwards. And it's also true that some very talented people who go after it the right way won't succeed.
But you always gain something by walking the road.
***
If you have an hour to spare, have a DSL connection and want to hear one of the most fascinating talks ever given, click on the link below and listen to Michael Franzese. He was a former mob captain who earned, literally, millions of dollars a WEEK for the mob, then somehow turned his life around and left the mob. Check it out.
http://www.ambassadoragency.com/display_client_videos.cfm/cmid/167
Is that a sign of low-brow culture, or the fact that the coverage of the Olympics has become so flippin' contrived, cloying and commercialized that die-hard Olympic fans like me have opted to turn off the TV and catch up on back-log reading instead?
MW
American Idol ratings crushed the winter olympics in head to head battle. Shows you just how lowbrow our culture has become. And picking junkmusickulture over sports is a first.
Keith, I take offense to your posting!
If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all!!!!
Get some manners!
-TODD
.
.
Joe's sentiments are mine, as well.
When Joe called me yesterday to tell me, he asked that I not put up an advisement of dear Andreas's passing until he had coordinated with the family. But now you all know.
Joe's sentiments are mine, as well.
Harlan
JMS' Commentary
(Rick, if this violates copyright rules please remove)
From the message boards:
"Just over a year ago, Andreas Katsulas -- who loved smoking with a passion that cannot be described -- was diagnosed with lung cancer, which by then had already spread to other areas. He quit smoking at once and went on a healthy diet and vitamin program, but there was little hope of a good resolution even though the new regimen was very good for him. When we spoke about it, he laughed, and said, "Now that I'm dying I've never felt better!"
His spirits were always up and positive, putting everyone at ease about his condition, because...well, that's the kind of person he was.
A couple of months ago, he and his wife convened a dinner with me, Doug, and Peter Jurasik, which was filled with laughter and stories and good food. He wanted to know all the stories we never told him because, as he said, "Who am I going to tell?" So we did. Because we knew we were saying goodbye, and there would not be a second chance.
Last night, in the company of his wife and family, Andreas closed his eyes and went away.
He lived an amazing life...full of travel and wonder and good
work...was part of the world renowned Peter Brook company...he saw the planet, loved and was loved, ate at great restaurants, smoked too many cigarettes...he lived a life some people would die for.
And, sadly, due to the last part of that equation...he did.
Memorial arrangements are still being worked out, but will doubtless be private.
Andreas is gone...and G'Kar with him, because no one else can ever play that role, or ever will.
I will miss him terribly.
J. Michael Straczynski"
Just thought you guys might like to know there's a character that appears briefly in the second volume of Clive Barker's ABARAT series named the Electric Baby. Wonder if this is a reference to Susan. (Certainly doesn't look like Susan, though--the little dude literally has light bulbs on his head).
Say it ain't so :(...I loved him in Babylon 5. I loved his acting period. He was one of those talents that was unique and special. No one could have played G'kar better than he did.
Man...just when my Valentine's Day was picking up...sigh. (sniff!)
Katsulas
Condolences, Harlan.
Katsulas is best known, to the non-sf world, as the one-armed man from the FUGITIVE movie. I met him a grand total of once, but he struck me as one of the good ones.
Sad news
Just learned that Andreas Katsulas, the actor who played G'kar on _Babylon 5_, just passed away. Lung cancer.
We've seen him in a lot of other places, but B5 really let him soar as an actor. There were three terrific delights there: Katsulas' voice, sort of a baritone version of John Gielgud's; watching G'Kar change from a scheming fiend into a religious leader; and watching G'Kar and Peter Jurasik's Londo have at each other.
I have Bunuel's _The Phantom of Liberty_ on right now, but all I can think of is that wonderful scene with G'Kar and Londo in the crashed elevator.
That would be the collaboration on a story between Harlan and Neil Gaiman, I believe they started it at a convention up in Wisconsin a number of years ago.
Harlan thanks for the kind comment and info about Dream Corridor. It was a tough decision to make, but after meeting both of you on numerous occasions, and always traveling a good distance when I did,it was extremely difficult when you were only five hours away in Minnesota this time to pass up the opportunity to see you and Susan. I've got the arrangements covered for Good Friday evening and Easter Sunday services so I don't think I'll get a bolt of lightening thrown my way for coming up. Thanks for the continuing encouragement about the Gaiman story heading my way, I'm looking forward to it. I'm on jury duty for the fourth time in my life this week. I had a very long day Monday and did not get picked and go back early tomorrow morning and start the process all over again. If I'm not picked tomorrow i believe I'm all done this time around. This is my fourth tour of duty and I've actually been picked seven times to sit on the jury during the years I've been called. Bye for now. Roger
Oh, Come On!!
The whole affair was obviously a little lawyer joke between two good friends. Why should we stick our buttinsky noses into the middle of it?
We should all start calling Dickie Cheney the Grandmaster of irony.
Congrats on the Grandmaster, Harlan
lonegungirl already mentioned Cassutt's heartfelt article, but I just wanted to wish Harlan congratulations on the Grandmaster Nebula. You deserve fifty of them.
Cheers,
James
Cookie, Dima
(I may need a place to stay...!!!)
Harlan + Cris + Susan???
!!!
I am so f***ed.
(Seriously, Harlan that was very kind of you to send that note to Cris. It more than made her day. She was smiling all evening, and that alone was a wonderful thing. Thank you.)
(And I promise that those dings in the car were there when you gave me the keys.)
China Forbes from Pink Martini has a charming O Pato (the Duck) vocal version.
-B
A nice article.
On the unfortunately-named scifi.com website, Michael Cassutt has written a charming article on his history with HE.
The address: http://www.scifi.com/sfw/column/sfw12234.html
Now excuse me, I have some sackcloth and ashes to put on in lieu of Michelle Kwan's withdrawal from the olympics...snif...
Dear Harlan
(I don't come here often but boy was this worth it!)
Thank you SO much for your incredible compliments... it means a lot coming from you. Steve had already mentioned to me that you really know your stuff and from the singers you mentioned, you must. I do have quite a love for bossa nova. O Pato... was the person you are thinking of Karrin Allyson perhaps? She does a great version of that tune.
I've heard such great things about you and Susan and I'm looking forward to the "three" of us going to dinner! Steve can handle parking (smile).
Thanks again for the kind words. You definitely made my day.
All the best to you and Susan.
Your fan,
Cris Barber
BARBER, GO GET YOUR WIFE, THIS IS FOR HER
CRIS:
It's about time I commented on the album. Sorry I didn't do it in timelier fashion, but perhaps in light of recent competitive events, well, mayhap this'll provide you a frisson of anti-angst
to get you through the day.
First of all, as you may have heard, I know my beans when talking about jazzmakers. Instrumental, vocal, choral, or anywhichway. I paid my dues and, as I've often said (and I said it to Diz), if I could find three OTHER black boys, us'ns could get up a fine doo-wop group. So. I am no moldy fig when it comes to appraising the chops. June Christy said so, Nina Simone said so, Helen Forrest said so, and Annie Ross said so.
So.
Only luhhhhh-ved the album.
(This does not mean I've forgiven your scapegrace husband, but...)
Though I righteously capered in the lee of your impeccable and original phrasing on "The Nearness of You," and thought Vail's tenor sax made a tasty duet with you, and haven't even by a nose enjoyed "Summer Samba" as much since Jobim-Getz, and utterly was wowed by "The Nearness of You" ... my absolute killer knockout #1 pash on this set is "Guess Who I Saw Today?" (with only one questionable bridge that bothered me) -- a song almost NOBODY, including Nancy Wilson, can sing well, so touchy and rigorous is it. I thought your take was sensational, particularly the final I SAW YOOOOOOOOO!
Well, when we get together, the three of us--me and Susan and you--and we go for Argentinian, I'll heap more praise, and suggest that since you got such a breeze up for bossa nova, that you find the one album--by which singer I cannot remember--on which there's a vocal version of "O Pato" (the duck), and add it to your portfolio. It is juicy, it is bouncy, and you and it would meld lovlily.
Otherwise, all best from me and The Electric Baby.
Yr. pal, Harlan
Leiber's KESSERICH is a good read -- sort of a Lovecraftian mystery. But it's from early in his career, though unpublished for decades, and his work ranged far and climbed high from there.
Rob
Sorry, I've been sleeping at work again. Gotta run to an appointment and will draw the water upon my return.
SB
My needs on the other board are not being tended...PLEASE...
...WHO would like to BATHE me? Don't be shy...reach under, and FAR below. I mean to do it all MYSELF...how TRYING life can be.
>The students aren’t reading the pages (or finding ways around it) so it must be the parents’ and the students’ fault.<
That sounds pretty on the mark to me. I don't know what you expect...if you don't change your oil regularly, is it your mechanic's fault? If you don't pay your bills on time, is that your bank's fault?
Blaming teachers is an old dodge. If anything, teachers coddle and carry students a lot more now then they ever did in your good old days of book reports.
If you think something is wrong with the curriculum, then lobby your Board of Education to change it.
I hope Dan is ok.
Funny you should mention Leiber
I just got a hold of THE DEALINGS OF DANIEL KESSERICH from my local library. Anyone read this one?
Cheers,
Paul
Counting Heads
I've just finished David Marusek's "Counting Heads". Those who haven't been enjoying his short story work have been missing out. "Counting heads" shows a little too much that it was novella first and was added to, to make it a novel but the author shouldn't be chastised to badly for that since he's managed to pack some of the more interesting and engaging ideas I've read about in long time into an well paced tale about an overpopulated future.
I know we're all dedicated HE readers here but while we wait for the final issue of DC and anything else to escape from underneath the keys of his abused typewriter give Mr. Marusek a chance and you'll be happy you did.
On Reading
Tom Galloway, Sheryl, John Thompson
Thanks for the responses. The issue of time versus pages may be the ultimate point - the point that the teacher is focusing on the wrong things. (Two sayings I have written on the wall at work – “you get what you measure” and “Just because something can be measured, doesn’t mean it is important”.)
All this reemphasizes what I see as the ultimate problem – the teacher is not taking responsibility. The students aren’t reading the pages (or finding ways around it) so it must be the parents’ and the students’ fault. Perhaps, a microcosm of what is occurring around us today - it can't be my fault, it must be everyone else's.
Mike
Fritz Leiber
Little as I trust Wikipedia, I must admit their entry on Leiber seems accurate, if thin. If you're enjoying "Our Lady of Darkness," make a point of reading two of Harlan's pieces in "Sleepless Nights in the Procrustean Bed." The first, "You Don't Know Me," addresses the criminal neglect of "Our Lady of Darkness" by its own publisher upon its first release. The second, "A Few Too Few Words" is Harlan's introduction to Leiber from a WorldCon program book.
Though Leiber's failure to become a "collectible" is a sad commentary on today's readers, it's a genuine plus for readers new to the man's work. You can find endless treasure on Ebay, underpriced, underbid. There are even multiple copies of the hilarious "A Spectre is Haunting Texas" (my favorite Leiber by far) available. About the only thing I don't see listed is Leiber's rather slight parody of the publishing industry, "The Silver Eggheads."
Tony and Earl : Thank you for your suggestions. I will keep an eye out for the books; I'm less certain I'll be able to come across the magazines.
Hater of James Cameron
Harlan Ellison's Dream Corridor?!?! HAHAHA What juvenile trinkets.
JACK:
The answer is yes. Absolutely. At last, my friend, at last.
Yr. pal, Harlan
HARLAN ELLISON'S DREAM CORRIDOR
Please tell me my adaptation will be in the final HARLAN ELLISON'S DREAM CORRIDOR!
Hopefully,
JCH
Louis Ferdinand Celine's attacks on Anne Frank show's remarkable artistic integrity. I would like to see Steven Spielberg adapt London Bridge or Castle to Castle for the screen. What is Mr. Ellison's opinion of the great Nazi horror writer Hans Heinz Ewers?
There was a "p" in impulse when I hit send. Sop it. I mean stop it!
- Barney
Allentown, A.
Love that really ought not speak its name
*** Roger *** If it will make you feel one molecule better - and I seriously doubt that it will - Harlan once made a similar yucky suggestion on the phone to me about MY mother. [!!!]
It would seem after a couple of decades of making an honest woman out of the Electric Baby, the pure allure of an "older woman" has grown too much for our hero and poor imulse control has taken over. It's just like when he sees anything over $100.00 as "a really big nickel". His brain has yet to actually process the terrifying math.
- Barney
Morehorror, PA.
REPLY TO ROGER GJOVIG
Roger: I must confess to a dropping of jaw at your loyalty. I am loath to get you in hot water with the Deity. We spawn of chaos DO have our sense of propriety. Otherwise, I will, of course, be looking foward to meeting your mother, who is only a speck older than I. Ask her, if I duck my wife, does she wanna fool around?
As for the next, big, and final issue of HARLAN ELLISON'S DREAM CORRIDOR (the magazine, not the movie, which is in pre-pre-production), it is scheduled for later this year...if Diana Schutz, my editor at Dark Horse, told me in what month DH has scheduled it (and she probably did), the information has blown out of my memory.
Whenever, though...Susan and I likely won't be selling it ourselves for years yet. We only sell what's out of print, when I buy up all the remainders. As this will be a first publication, you'll necessarily purchase copy(ies) from Diamond, or your local comics store, or Bud Plant, or online, or wherever.
Haven't forgotten you and the Gaiman collaboration, either.
All best, Yr. pal, Harlan
About Fritz Leiber
Let’s see, Tony Rabig mentioned the long, rich, meandering autobiographical piece in Leiber’s collection The Ghost Light.
Leiber also wrote a considerably shorter, chronological autobiography that was serialized by Fantasy Newsletter/Fantasy Review in 1983-4: nos. 57, 59, 61, 63, 65, 67, 69, & 71. I don’t know how easy they are to get, but the first 2 installments are in a collection of Leiber’s essays, Fafhrd & Me, which should be easier to get.
For literary analysis, there’s Bruce Byfield’s Witches of the Mind, a short but comprehensive scholarly study. It’s available from Necronomicon Press:
http://www.necropress.com/
Mystery of the missing Ellison commentary
A couple of years ago I watched a documentary on TV called "2001 and Beyond". If you haven't seen it, I'm sure you have probably guessed it's a behind the scenes look at the making of the Kubrick/Clarke movie. If you *have* seen it, perhaps you can help me out here ....
Mainly because of all the cool pre-production art and model work featured in this 45-minute documentary, some of which isn't even in Piers Bizony's book, I bought the DVD. So I have now watched this documentary twice.
Now on the back cover of the DVD it tells me there will be commentary from Freeman Dayson (sic), Richard Terrile, Arthur C. Clarke, Larry Niven, Rob Sawyer, Harlan Ellison and Buzz Aldrin.
Okay, there seemed to be about 20 minutes each of Sawyer and Clarke, but even so, I definitely caught snippets from Dyson, Terrile, and Niven. But did I blink (twice!) at precisely the same microinstant? Because as far as I can tell there was not even the most miniscule Ellisonian syllable present on this DVD.
So is this just a case of "not what it says on the cover", were HE's undoubtedly fine words edited out, or did I just not pay enough attention?
Isn't it PORTRAIT OF THE LADY AS A YOUNG MAN by Henry James Joyce?
JOHN THOMPSON
If you had done your homework and read Wikiwokipedia you would KNOW that James JONES wrote ULYSSES and PORTRAIT OF THE ARTIST AS A YOUNG RAM and WINNEGAN's FAKE, and you would also know that he wrote that entire trilogy in one slow Tuesday night.
feggidaboutit
Kneel
Leiber
If memory serves, Fritz Leiber's book THE GHOST LIGHT included a long autobiographical essay.
Bests,
--tr
Update
Well, as they say: the most important thing is the nomination.
Caterina New, an artist who moved to SoCal last year from Sweden, won the "Best Jazz" category in the Southern California Music Awards last night -- Caterina's a brilliant sax player and certainly deserves the award (you can listen to some of her tracks at cdbaby.com).
The good news is that, while several of our other friends lost their categories, we can boast that the winners of the "Classic Rock" (The Kelly Bowlin Band) and "Blues" (Blues BBQ) are all buddies.
Cris predicted the results to a "t", but ...
(By the way, anyone into surf guitar? Dick Dale won the lifetime achievement award and did two surf pieces with his son Jimmy, who is thirteen at the most. The kid is one helluva guitar player already, absolutely keeping up with Dad on stage. Kid's gonna be a superstar. You read it here first.)
Yr correspondent from the SCMAs,
SB
Fritz Leiber
Apologies for the non-sequitor, but over the past month I've started reading Fritz Leiber. I'd heard of his Lankhmar books before, but never his modern fantasy. At any rate, I'm greatly enoying "Our Lady of Darkness" and had two questions:
1) Because this crowd views Wikipedia with a healthy dose of skepticism, is there anyone who can yea/nay the Fritz Leiber entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fritz_Leiber) or suggest a better source? This is purely for my own idle curiosity, I'm curious about literary influences, what he did with his life and how it might've influenced what he wrote.
2) Are there any anthologies or similiar authors anyone would care to recommend? He's got this idea of "megapolisomancy" (which trips awkwardly off the tongue) that I think is great fun to play with, but I can't quite bring myself to believe that he is the first (or last) person to write on it. Harlan's "The Whimper of Whipped Dogs" (hope I'm associating the story I'm remembering with the correct title) also grooves along these lines.
I'm quite open to any thoughts people might have. Thanks.
This whole idea of how many books you read a year as a determination of literacy is bogus. There are some books--James Joyce's ULYSSES being a prime example--that require a slower pace. If a writer has taken pains to create something wonderful, I want to take my time with it as well, absorbing everything the book has to offer.
Sometimes it's even useful to take a brief break from reading. If you're constantly filling your mind with other people's thoughts, you will never discover your own precious insights.
I just got off the phone with the hotel in Bloomington,MN where the minicon convention is to change my reservations slightly. I had gotten a call earlier this week from the music coordinator at the church I attend to ask if I could sing a particular song as a soloist for the April 14 Maundy Thursday evening service. My voice is finally healthy enough to do so after struggling for a couple of years with problems after serious illness two years in a row with broncitis at this time of year,so I said yes. It did not occur to me until after that phone call that minicom is on Easter weekend. I've never been away from my home church that weekend, how do I pull this off and get to see Harlan and Susan again.I have a cousin who is going to check that area near the hotel to see if there is a church close, if not I can watch the services on tv Friday night and Sunday morning or my cousin who lives in the area will pick me up. It will cut down on the time I have to spend with some of you, but this is the only way my conscience will allow me to attend. One other change, my 75 year old mother wants to come along and see the author whose work takes up 3 shelves on my bookcase. We'll see what happens. One quick question for Harlan, will the new Dream Corridor be out by then, I would love to buy it from you and Susan if possible? I hope to see a lot of you there very soon.Roger
Frank, you still perceive political theory as mapped out on a line, with yourself perched on one end of it. But actually it's a circle, and your own form of take-no-prisoners extremism is indeed as dogmatic as the forces you seek to combat...you're a lot closer to them on the circle than you can see, you're just closer to their backdoor, not the front.
Interesting, how when you are passionate about something you are considered to be too dogmatic. But, if I didn't care as much about the world's troubles, you would all say that I didn't care enough. And, so it goes, in the land of odd shaped hedges.
Hey Dave, actually I was making a reference to the earlier imbroglio over the Foolscap convention. Discovering the word in the story reminded me of the whole thing.
TODD
"Sure, no other President has led during times of poverty, unpopular wars and natural disasters."
not exactly true, more like:
NO other Administration has done such a poor job leading this country through times of poverty (whatever that means), unpopular wars and natural disasters.
This current bunch of dolts is hard to defend.
Neal
reading stamina, my left butt cheek
Hell...I was reading six-eight books a WEEK in high school, and I wasn't really reading all that much. I just read fast. (I won a hundred bucks once by reading Shogun on a Saturday afternoon.)
As a former high school teacher, let me say that this teacher's seminar was either crap, or she's too stupid to have understood it. You'll have to make the judgement on the ground there. However.
Reading stamina has nothing to do with the number of books or pages you read. It has to do with:
1) sustained effort in reading activity, and
2) retention/use of material read.
I used to require a minimum of 15 hours a week outside reading (time sheets signed by parents with a day phone and I DID make calls) with substantiating journals--basically, everything that they read, they had to write both a summary of and a commentary on in it in a daily reading journal that they turned in weekly. Half my students grade was based on those hours and that writing. THAT'S how you promote reading stamina, not labeling a particular number of books as desirable.
The number of books is utterly irrelevant, because students read at such different speeds, for a variety of reasons. The whole point is to get them TO read, and it doesn't matter much what it is. Sports Illustrated is just as good for promoting reading stamina as Thoreau or Shakespeare or JK Rowling.
ALSO: If your district is going to cheat and buy reading programs (which this unalterable list with online testing thing sounds like to this ex-child torturer) then I can't blame the kids for cheating and re-reading books. If they're going to treat them like 3rd graders, the least these "educators" (and I use that term exceedingly loosely) could do is make up an original list, read the books and make up their own tests!
Re: Reading stamina. Um, during my first-twelvth grade years, I would've considered reading only 80 books a year to have indicated that I must have spent more than half the year in a coma or blind. I mean, it's noted on my first grade report card that I'd read 312 books during the 9 school months...and I distinctly recall being very ticked off that they wouldn't count comic books since that would've easily put me over 500. Whenever I was taken to/went to the library, as a matter of course I'd check out the maximum number of books allowed, and more often than not tried to argue for additional ones.
So, yeah, I do think reading 6-8 books a year is pretty wimpy.
Dave Fleming
Alex Jay,
Yes that is the same Dave Fleming who writes for both ESPN the Magazine and ESPN.com. I was very surprised at the quality of his writing in his book about Noah.
Here is a link to an excerpt from his book, which appeared on ESPN.com's Page 2:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=fleming/060125
Coretta, Bush, and sundries
Some points here:
Coretta Scott King was very vocal in her opposition to the war in Iraq; the war Bush has made.
Coretta Scott King was very vocal in her opposition to the ban on gay marriages, which Bush backs.
Coretta Scott King was very vocal on her opposition to the underfunding of education, over which Bush has presided.
Coretta Scott King was a vocal supporter of labor unions (like her husband), when Bush and his administration have steadily been working to undercut unions.
Coretta Scott King was very vocal in her opposition to the Bush administration's attacks on women's rights.
Correta Scott King was a vocal opponent of the death penalty, for which Bush has been a fervent advocate.
Coretta Scott King was an icon of protest, when the Bush administration has made every attempt to shut protesters away with "Free Speech Zones".
The Reverend Joseph Lowery knew Mrs. King for over fifty years. Jimmy Carter knew Mrs. King for over thirty.
Considering all of the above, why is it wrong for them to speak out at Mrs. King's funeral against things she opposed? Is an icon's fight supposed to die just because the icon does?
MARK GOLDBERG: That's the same Fleming who writes for ESPN, yes?
BRIAN: Shakespeare in the Park? Dude. SO there. ... as the Bard would say ...
Twelfth Night isn't my favorite of his plays, but it's well worth having. Any chance they'll be making it an ongoing thing?
Duane:
If you've read everything Ellison's written, you've seen the word "foolscap." I am so certain he's used it somewhere that I'd bet big money on the question.
I read "The Edge of Forever." It's a good introduction to the work and the themes. It's not really a work of literary criticism...it's more a literary biography...and the writers don't stake any territory with their own interpretations. A lot of the biographical material is obviously gleaned from the usual sources, and it's presented without any indication that it was double-checked.
It's a first step, but we are still waiting for a real literary analysis of Ellison by someone with the right critical chops. That's not to say that there isn't some effort at creating an "interpretation" of Ellison in this book, but it's low-key and even a bit amateurish at times.
Reading at the High Schools
My son’s high school English teacher has really pissed me off. I’d like to know if anyone thinks I’m being too picky.
The reading program at this high school requires all independent reading to come from a 10-page list. The list is not overly restrictive, although the content of the list does bother me. (No Harlan Ellison. Every Harry Potter book. Did I mention this is high school?) It is also impossible for anyone to add books to the list. Each student then proves they read the book by taking an on-line 10-question multiple-choice test. (Ah-ha – beginning to make more sense. Much easier to administrate and test.) Again, I don’t think it’s a bad thing that he has to read books he might otherwise avoid. In fact, he was recently required to read The Maltese Falcon, The Great Gatsby, and The Postman Always Rings Twice. He enjoyed them (then passed them on to me because [gulp] I have never read them.)
Here’s where the rabbit hole opens up.
The teacher recently returned from a seminar (God save us from teachers going to seminars) and sent a letter home to all parents. She described a workshop titled “provoking literacy” (new teaching buzzword alert) where she learned about a school that touted incredible results – inner city school, 85% passing graduation exams, reading skills exceeding grade level, fill in your favorite success rate here – by promoting “reading stamina” (buzzword #2). This school contends that literacy does not equal reading five or six novels a year. Rather, literacy equals reading 60, 70, or 80 books per year. (Damn, I done thunk we here’n was a literate group. Guess I were wrong.)
In her letter, the teacher indicates she has watched (keep that word “watched” in the back of your mind) in frustration as people pass the tests without reading the books (watching the movies) or rereading books (e.g. Harry Potter). And, she is shocked and surprised that students put off this reading until the due date. (Shocked? Did anyone else out there write their college papers the night before they were due?)
Her answer to all this is what makes me want to run out and vote with the old people to reduce spending on schools. She describes “this semester’s ‘ideal world’ plan.” Students will have a book with them at all times. They will track their reading habits. There will be shorter deadlines. Students will “read habitually” at home. They will take an active role in choosing reading material.
The next paragraph asks for the parents help. “I invite you to be a part of provoking literacy here at [the high school].” She suggests parents giving a five-minute talk on a book to the class, leading an author series (I’ve got a good idea on that one), leading a book discussion (how ‘bout Deathbird Stories), purchasing a book for the class, or having an e-mail conference with a student “to confirm that the student has, in fact, read the book”.
Wonderful ideas for the students and parents. (Okay, some possibly successful approaches for the students and parents.) And her commitment? “I am committing to accommodating those 55 minutes [I have as classroom time] toward building reading stamina as much as possible without sabotaging the curriculum.” The passivity of her approach (“I have watched as…) absolutely floors me. Where is the teacher’s ownership of the problem and ownership of the solution?
Look, I am huge supporter of teachers and I understand that incredible demands are put on them. But, what ever happened to (just one old idea) book reports? I’m guessing the answer is that the teacher’s don’t have the time. But couldn’t a teacher spend one class having the students write a book report (in those old essay books), and then spend the next couple of classes giving the students independent reading time while they review the reports?
Just an idea where the teacher takes ownership (with the students and parents) for a solution to a perceived problem.
Am I off base?
Mike
Harlan Ellison: The Edge Of Forever
*** Steve ***
I read it. I rather liked it, and I have to confess I came to it with my head canted to one side and arm outstretched, not wanting to like it. Compared to the early Slusser lit/crit. piece and about 65% of the Mark Twain university style lit/crit. I've waded through I found this to be pretty breezy and informal. On the other hand, after 50 pages on "Mark Twain's ethical duality and the later Victorian moral imperative" - I made that one up but I have seen and read far worse - the Wolfe book goes over pretty well.
I know Harlan is well aware of the text and had seen it in manuscript form. Beyond that there's nothing I can say.
I'm most grateful that it settled a titling argument/conundrum I had going with the late great Julie Schwartz for about 15 years but that is an "ask me over a beer" anecdote - if you're buying.
- Barney
Then There's This Old Chestnut....
So I'm reading Albert Cowdrey's latest story "The Revivalist" in the latest issue of F&SF (March 2006) and I come across the following line:
"The notebook lies at my hand as I write this memoir -- its FOOLSCAP pages brittle and yellow -- its covers cracked and peeling..."
FOOLSCAP?
Now there's a word I've never heard of before (or have I?).
A More Literary Topic
I mentioned this over on the "other" boards, but...
Has anyone read "Harlan Ellison: The Edge Of Forever" by Ellen Weil and Gary K. Wolfe? I'm a few chapters into the thing and am curious if I'm alone in this discovery or simply very late to the party.
Harlan, any comment (printable) regarding this work? Did I waste my money?
__________________________________________________
Reading Larry Niven's "The Draco Tavern", a surprisingly fun collection of Niven's Tavern stories.
__________________________________________________
Since the political and sociological discussions seem to be frustrating any number of people -- anyone else notice the absence of a certain "HE" on the boards since these topics arose? -- I might suggest that there are two excellent threads on the other board (See those marked "...King George..." and "...the Middle East Topic")
http://www.harlanellison.com/heboard/forum/viewforum.php?f=1&sid=3eab39fffdb530d0bb08756803d89d16
Knock yourselves out.
Jan, I have a request for the next discussion on the other board. Though not a HE story, it appears in DV...Farmer's Riders of the Purple Wage. What do you say?
Politics (sigh!!)
Rob, Frank, et al:
Silly me, I see clearly now you guys just can't help yourselves.
So, I reckon the totally predictable, doctrinaire, political blather will continue. So it goes.
Chickens are coming home to roost.....
.....and the hens just keep on cluckin':
http://nytimes.com/2006/02/10/politics/10katrina.htmlei=5094&en=d6fcffd6820bf50d&hp=&ex=1139547600&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184416,00.html
http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2006-02-09T235347Z_01_N09414019_RTRUKOC_0_US-CRIME-ABRAMOFF.xml&rpc=22
Todd,
This is exceedingly germane:
There’s a little penis in the White House. It HAD to be at Coretta Scott King’s funeral for the PR. He's a poser who yucks it up fer the cameras. But he hears nothing, sees nothing, and says nothing.
Boss Cheney is the BIG Dick in the White House. More than the President’s adviser by far, he is, in fact, the puppet master behind most executive decisions.
Since, interestingly, Cheney was NOT at King’s funeral, I find it pertinent to recap his record:
Cheney opposed naming Martin Luther King an official holiday
Cheney voted against the Equal Rights Amendment
Cheney opposed sanctions against the Aparteid-era South Africa in the mid-80’s.
Cheney opposed the release of Nelson Mandela.
Cheney opposed HIV/AIDS funding
Cheney opposed hate crimes legislation and fair housing measures.
Cheney voted for a constitutional amendment to ban school busing.
Cheney voted against Head Start
Cheney voted against college student loans
Cheney voted against extending the Clean Water Act
Cheney voted against a bill outlawing cop-killer bullets.
He gives all these wonderful things, Todd, thanks to votes like yours, even as he continues drawing a $1,000,000 per year paycheck from Halliburton while serving as Vice President.
And you're actually PROUD to have a sack-o-shit like THIS running the country?
Well, the point is, there isn’t a single thing here in what this administration represents that Martin Luther King and his wife would NOT have reviled. That was the one dark shadow – in the shape of a dumb, yuckin’ cowboy – that cast itself on Coretta's otherwise inspiring funeral gathering.
Todd, you hurdled over the Ironic nature of your Bushie: He has to be handed a dvd, by Andy Card, showing the devastation in New Orleans, because Bush doesn't watch the news. After THREE days at his ranch in Crawford, he finally realized that public opinion might swing like a meat cleaver, so he flys over New Orleans, which is convenient, since the view in Air Force One makes it hard to get a goggles eye view of the Superdome trauma center and the lovely convention center horror. So what does our beautiful, loving leader do? Well...he goes to San Diego to except a guitar from some Country singer, slash bumpkin, and he masticates verbally, posing in front of a big ole war ship; his on the job shoulders slouched like the knuckle dragging coward that he is, while in New Orleans, Rome burns.
Beyond slapping Brownie on the ass and staffing Fema and the department of Homeland insecurity with personal friends and cronies, who don't know dick about their assigned tasks, Bush drives through the streets of New Orleans, looking like a big game hunter, in his tough looking military transport. Gotta protect the grand leader from the coloreds. Yea, Todd, Bush just loves him some black folk. At the funeral, he looked like a martian, seeing Earth for the first time.
"Frozen Chosen" is right. Daddy Bush's sperm must all wear microscopic little klan hoods. The sad part is, Bush was taught love from his mom. Ha.
He was invited by the King family, which shows you how little they care about their own Father's memory or stance.
Sister King's crap about how we should all be "born again" made me head for the latrine. I bet Malcolm X's daughter loved that one.
This is the most evil and corrupt administration since the Nixon administration, and it looks as if it is worse. Yet, there are otherwise seemingly intelligent people who post here to defend Bush and his cronies.
Drink the Kool-Aid, boys, drink the Kool-Aid.
FRANK
you're just miffed because the King's snubbed you
Neal
Ezra Lb.
Thanks for the image. Makes a nice wallpaper.
Friends, friends, in the end all that is necessary to follow one of the world's seemingly endless supply of religions, faiths, creeds or cults is to ape or parrot or merely trumpet its founder's teachings, or its founder's disciple's teachings, or its founder's disciple's nephew's cousin's sister's misinterpretation of its teachings.
But don't you ever wonder what started it all? What made Jesus, or Mohammad, or Slofork the seers they were? Well maybe it was having a vision like this one.
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060209.html (Brought to you by a bunch of government employees using well spent tax money I might add.)
Contact that. Identify with that. And remind yourself that Mohammad had to content himself with very nice sunsets. And when you’re truly absorbed this vision, hey, go start a religion. Or if you agree with me that we’ve probably had just a wee bit too much of that, then you can at least laugh the next time you hear some hayseed claim that god hath spaketh to him.
Yeah, me too.
Ps, Shame on you damnit if you don’t know who Slofork was. Lousy schools!
Politics (sigh!)
Hoping the political dis-course here has finally run out of hot air. I hate to be a downer, but fact is no one is changing anyone’s mind or point of view. After all the keystrokes flying back and forth have ceased, both sides will remain firmly entrenched. So, the point is what…? It’s already been well established that the folks on this board are clever, smart and well informed. So, perhaps we can now move on and get back to the spirit of this board as defined at the top of this page.
Thank you and good night.
I seem to recall some press about Graham Chapman's funeral a while back. John Cleese and, I think, Michael Palin got up and did an impromptu 'Parrot Sketch' over the casket, substituting Graham's body for the parrot. They received a bit of heat over this and Cleese made a statement that if Graham were to have come back to life at any given moment and seen a bunch of his friends sitting around crying, he would have thrown up.
I saw the eulogies, Bush barbs and all (tee hee), as fitting. Jabbing a warmonger over the coffin of a peacemaker. It's beautiful. It's appropriate. It was for us. And it was for Mrs. King.
-Paul
P.S. Mark S.: Thanks for the super neato website. I spent quite a bit of time there.
-P.
More on Coretta Scott King and a book recommendation
While I find it ironic that the same President who could not bothered to meet with the NAACP would show up to the funeral of one of the greatest leaders of the Civil Rights Movement, it was necessary to invite him. The bigger surprise for me was that he actually showed up and did not delegate the responsibility to someone in his cabinet, possibly Condi Rice.
The comments and criticism on the Bush administration were valid and appropriate. However, I think the timing on them was wrong. During the funeral service, the focus should be on the deceased not on the myriad of broken promises and lies told by the current administration.
If the thought was to shame or embarrass the President, it was a futile attempt. There is ample anecdotal evidence that shows that this President believes his actions are dictated to him by a higher power and thus does not listen or care about anyone else's opinions.
I just finished reading an incredibly emotional book: Noah's Rainbow: A Father's Emotional Journey from the Death of His Son to the Birth of His Daughter by David Fleming. While I am not someone who cries very often, I found that I could not read this book on the bus ride into work because I would literally start breaking down while reading his story.
Fleming relates how, while he and his wife were in the hospital waiting to be induced, they were hooked up to a fetal heart monitor. In the span of 200 seconds, while they watched on the monitor, their baby's heart stopped. The mother had a placental abruption where the placenta tore away from the walls of the uterus.
Ultimately, this is a story about hope and perseverance through the most horrific pain any parent could suffer. I would strongly urge you to check out this book if you get a chance.
Frank and Alan, you guys are winners. Typical of close-minded political babblists who can’t have a sensible discussion or debate. Frank thinks Bush should not have been invited, and yet what would Frank have said if Bush didn’t show. Don’t bullshit a bullshitter, Frank, if Bush didn’t show you would have castigated him for showing disrespect.
Meanwhile, Alan has become a mind reader. He knows exactly what Bush is thinking, and it has something to do with fucking with the black man. After all, Bush is such a racist that he, what, hasn’t solved poverty? Started a war? Presided over an initial inept reaction to a natural disaster that happened to hit one of the poorest inner-cities in the nation? Sure, no other President has led during times of poverty, unpopular wars and natural disasters.
I know I shouldn’t even bother with such a response. This board is mostly populated by intelligent political debate, even if I often do not agree, but putting those two comments down is like shooting fish in a barrel.
-TODD
When U'r all done here, cum on over to the Forums to discuss The Beast That Shouted Love.. at... damn, my fingers start hurtin'.
Presidential dignity, my ass!
If Bush had any dignity at all, he would have sat there politely taking his whuppin. He didn't. One could tell by the expression on his face that he was already plotting his revenge. He was already planning to screw that preacher's wife and sell his offspring to a plantation owner in the next state.
His bigotry is showing.
Bush should not have even been invited to the funeral, how does that set with you? This would be like inviting Lenin to some Soviet Dissident's funeral or Kissinger to Allende's.
--------------
We should know that things will erupt in the Muslim world, when such a thing is printed as that cartoon. We know that the enlightenment has yet to reach the middle east, and our continued hatrad of the arab people will keep fueling much worse stuff then this. Three more years of this chimp will seem like a bloody eternal hell.
Faisal,
(I'm retracting, at least this time, my pledge about restricting further comments to the other board since you're probably not checking it out)
Well, the events that take place in "whole regions" over there pretty much speak for themselves, don't they? But what you just said is fucking bullshit, and it tells me that you didn't read my posts too carefully (for convenience?); I made CLEAR that I wasn't characterizing EVERYONE over there as maniacal suicide bombers; that's what my exchange with Steve Barber was all about. I AM saying that SYMPATHIZERS are growing in numbers in those regions, for LOTS of reasons. And that means we're in deep shit.
(And for the record, I'd have guessed your commitments to human rights organizations without your having raised the point; I've met a good number of Muslims here in the states with the same sentiment)
That’s what this is all about. The problem I have with your argument is that this is a system PREFERRED by the people living there. I mean - sure - female circumcision is not carried out in every Muslim country; there are definitely variations. But there ARE core beliefs that tie them all together; the policy toward women is the most obvious example, right? And MANY of those regions want to see the end of Israel. So…YES! I have a problem with things going on over there in “WHOLE SECTIONS”.
But this was my most recent post on the other board, and it's really my whole argument in a nutshell (and if you want to DEAL with these questions and/or cast light on something we're missing, why don't you jump to the discussion on the other board?):
Brian mentioned something like what I said. That Islamic ideology is no "loonier" (MY word for it) than that of any other religion.
The difference comes when any one religion institutes a theocracy. That's the key. What is going on in the Middle East is similar in many ways to the patterns of the past OTHER religions had followed. It's one thing when you have choice in a system; you are raised on the concept of tolerance.
But a theocracy is a corrosion. A system that feeds off itself. It limits a mind and what it's allowed to do. And a great deal of extremism is the byproduct.
That is the distinction I was trying to draw between Muslims you might meet here or in the UK, and those you might meet in the Middle East. That is not to say there isn't some variation in the "tone" Muslims have in those regions. The guy I quoted in the Pavilion, for instance, rejected the passages about the Muslim who must kill the Jew, which, sickeningly, he points out, is being taught to 14-year-old boys (making the propagation I spoke of earlier inevitable). I THINK that was in Saudi Arabia.
It is the element of the theocracy that brings the sickness that dulls the mind. It is the theocracy that shapes the most twisted of ideologies. And any religion that ever takes its turn instituting the such will follow pretty much the same pattern.
The other thing is, Bush doesn't hear enough of this real-world reaction to his policy positions. His public appearances are orchestrated so that he almost never has to endure even the slightest bit of dissent, and he's totally insulated from criticism at the White House. The CS King funeral was, almost literally, the chance of a lifetime. Someone threw it in his face and made him squirm for a few minutes? Good. Double good. And for once, spare us the fake Republican "outrage." If Carter et. al did anything wrong, the phony, wounded spin is just as calculated, just as political.
To me it seems much more disrespectful and in worse taste to take to task friends and loved ones of King for what they choose to say at her funeral. What buisness is it of yours ? It is up to the speakers to say what they think is most important and I can't for the life of me beleive that either Martin or Coretta would have been upset by the remarks. I think they would have loved it.
Hell hath no fury like the uninvolved
I wanted to thank Mark Goldberg for posting that resume of Mrs. King. I think the "what did she do?" post was a very cheap shot on the day of her funeral. Especially in a world where a simple Google search or trip to the library - or simply opening ones ears and listening to what four U.S. Presidents had to say, would go a long way to answering that question. Let me know when anonymous snipe artists have Presidents speak at their funerals or get to lie in state while tens of thousands throng past. I'll be sure to TIVO that.
And really, what the hell? How many Great Couples are there? There are Great Men and there are Great Women. But only once in a very blue moon does history give us a Great Couple. It's absurd. It's like trash talking Mrs. Ghandi for not being as much of a mover and shaker as her husband. Go ahead. TRY and fill those dead men's shoes. "Life isn't a comparitive chamber of horrors" AND great deeds are neither diminished or outdone by other great deeds. It's always more complicated than that.
As for Carter's comments yesterday, I think they were ENTIRELY appropriate. If a former U.S. President and winner of the Nobel Peace prize and author of a few dozen books can't question an administration policy set in place by a sitting President - a policy that directly effected the King family back in the 1960's and lead to bad business that white folks love to trot out TO THIS VERY DAY - if a President can't call this practice into question - then, really, NOBODY can. Who watches the Watchmen indeed.
Show me a black man or woman who thought Carter's comments were inappropriate or insensitive. Show me a founding father who would have let this kind of intrusiveness go completely unchecked. Nonsense.
- Barney Dannelke
http://barney.wordpress.com/
post removed at poster's request
"Affront" "Sorry"
Sorry for the affront.
One more
Sory, missed this last item in my edit:
Bush and his policies towards the poor, represent exactly what Mrs King fought so long to dismantle. His presence, unremarked upon, would have been an offront to everyone who has ever supported Mrs. King's efforts.
Todd
*Picture yourself at Julius Schwartz's funeral. Eulogies are flowing, Harlan is in the audience after expressing his thoughts, or even before expressing them. During another eulogy, the speaker slips the following statement into his/her moment"....and I don't give a damn what he says, Harlan ripped off every single author who submitted a story to The Last Dangerous Visions."*
If Julie Schwartz had championed causes publicly rejected by Harlan, and the audience was comprised of writers and families Harlan had ripped off, and family members of others he had abused, and groups to which he had not only shown disdain but actively moved to disenfranchise, then it would be fair comment fairly delivered.
Under the circumstances and given the clear pattern he's established through his budgets and legislation, Bush got off with a rap on the knuckles.
Coretta King
In response to the question of what Coretta Scott King accomplished they are in no particular order:
* Delegate at the Disarmament Conference in Geneva in 1962
* First woman to preach at St Paul's cathedral in Great Britain
* Frequent speaker on the Civil Rights movement and racial intolerance, both before and after Dr. King's assassination
* Primary advocate of the movement to have Dr. King's birthday declared a national holiday
* Main force behind the fundraising and creation of the Martin Luther King Jr. Center for Nonviolent Social Change, a library and archive center for the Civil Rights movement
Here is a partial bibliography on Mrs. King:
King, Coretta Scott, My Life with Martin Luther King Jr., Holt, 1969; rev. ed., Henry Holt, 1993.
Medearis, Angela Shelf, Dare to Dream: Coretta Scott King and the Civil Rights Movement, Lodestar Books, 1994.
Patrick, Diane, Coretta Scott King, Franklin Watts, 1991.
Rhodes, Lisa Renee, Coretta Scott King, Chelsea House, 1997.
Simply put, the lady accomplished a ton, and deserves all of the respect she is being shown.
Having said that, I think the comments against Bush at her funeral were in extremely poor taste. While this yokel will probably turn out to be the worst president since Hoover (and still may surpass him), that day belonged to remembering the incredible life of Mrs. King.
Mrs. King
what did she do? I watch the news regularly and do not remember seeing her name associated with any big events. thanx
It certainly diminished the event. Eclipsing the honor of such a great woman and civil rights icon by publicly castigating an invited guest says more about the speakers than their intended target, none of it good.
For those who thought it was just so neato-keen terrific that time spent eulogizing Coretta King was also used to make jabs at Bush:
Picture yourself at Julius Schwartz's funeral. Eulogies are flowing, Harlan is in the audience after expressing his thoughts, or even before expressing them. During another eulogy, the speaker slips the following statement into his/her moment"....and I don't give a damn what he says, Harlan ripped off every single author who submitted a story to The Last Dangerous Visions."
How would you feel about the comment and the moment it was presented?
Forget the fact that Harlan does not need to display any Presidential dignity and he would probably rush the stage and rend some body parts from the speaker.....is this such a clever thing to do; express an unrelated snotty comment during the funeral of a well-loved person?
-TODD
I'm in a happy mood. I'm on the board of a local group that helpd maintain a local park. At our board meeting last night-- otherwise devoted to revising our bylaws, Big Whoop-- we had some people come in and tell us they wanted to put on a production of _Twelfth Night_ in our park this summer. We made some suggestions as to who to talk to, what city permissions they needed, issues with amplified sound... but hey, we're getting Shakespeare in the Park! Yippee! (Just as long as those Edward de Vere fans at 46th and Baltimore don't raise a protest...)
Re the Gary Groth stuff Rich pointed out: I agree. When I read the _Comics Journal_ regularly, back in the early 1980s, I couldn't avoid seeing Groth taking advantage of a falsity. He positioned himself as someone who thought of comics as a great art form... and while it's helped him become a major reprinter of classic comics, it's also enabled him to adopt the authority of Wise Art Critic and castigate the stuff he didn't like. Not so much to improve the field but to position himself as its Robert Hughes (who I admire, BTW). Thing is, _anyone_ can profess piety to Art in order to claim authority over it.
Not a heck of a lot to add to the Great Mohammed Cartoon Debate. I won't cite this as a nice platform from which to denounce Islam-- most religions are equally silly and have also had spasms of murderousness fanaticism in their pasts. It's got nothing to do with ideology, but the willingness of human beings _in general_ to get worked up over meaningless issues.
(Which raises an interesting question about the persistence of religious tyranny: what if most people are _comfortable_ with it, our species is intrinsically _fucked_ in this regard, and our recent wave of liberal democracy was an aberration of our history?)
The Comics Journal Library 6: The Writers was better than I expected. Yeah, yeah, I got it 'cause of the HE interview--which, by the way, didn't seem so incendiary to me; yeah, there's some sentence fragments one can quibble over, but the overall tone of the interview is pure HE so I'm not sure what all the fuss was about, and why people felt they had to sue someone over it. (Kinda rhetorical; I know the background so no need to post anything regarding Fleischer, Groth, et al.)
Here's what I don't understand: Groth. Most of the interviews Groth participated in seemed to have some weird contradiction going on. In particular, I'm thinking of the Denny O'Neil interview. All during the reading of that interview, I'm wondering why Groth even has a publication that deals with comics as he seemed to despise the comics that were out there at the time. Belittling them for not being a "better" art form, and at the same time implying that they could never be a "better" art form. (Another by the way. I've only read O'Neil's work, notably on Batman, but he sounds like a smart cookie, and clearly had the better argument against Groth's reasoning.)
I don't know anything about The Comics Journal, but it struck me as odd that Groth would carry on these types of conversations with Ellison, Gerber, and, notably, O'Neil.
You can now resume your talk of cartoons sponataneously combusting in crowded Muslim theaters.
parody of aphorism
When Thought is outlawed,
Only Outlaws will have thoughts.
Yelling Fire In A Crowded Theatre
Y'know, no metaphor pisses me off as much as this one.
There's a reason why yelling fire in a crowded theatre is considered dangerous. A theatre is dark. The incoming information is limited. One false message, in that context, cannot be overruled by dozens of others to the effect that, no, you asshole, there's no fire, sit the fuck down.
Folks who yell fire at the beach, at noon, are just looked at like they're crazy. Because the full light of day allows the recipients of that message to see a thousand yards in every direction. Folks can see that the warning is bullshit.
So if we're applying the metaphor to issues of free speech in our society, the solution is not to prohibit the yelling of fire, but to make sure people have sufficient context to tell the difference between an honest warning and a lie intended to incite panic.
Not to mention the other, serious issue:
Sometimes, as now, there IS a fire.
>There IS a line to be drawn somewhere.<
Yeah, but that line is not drawn in front of cartoons over some dipshit religion.
Because why stop there? If we can't draw cartoons os Messiahs boinking starlets, well, then we better not say ANYTHING bad or funny or irreverant about them, ever. So religion is now out of bounds. Ditto politicians...hey, if a group of people burn an embassy because someone on SNL does a wicked imitation of Chavez or Bush, I guess that's fire in a crowded theater too.
It's called freedom of speech. An amendment which apparently is joining the right to bear arms as being open to "reasonable" interpretation" these days, in the interests of "public safety."
Equating these cartoons with shouting fire in a crowded theater is sickening. It's awful. And it's a sign of our new times.
Um...Rabig. Tony Rabbit is Roger's older brother.
Chuck
Tony Rabit wrote:
"But if that quote is meant to invalidate Todd's point, I don't believe it does."
I'm not sure it does, either. What he wrote did remind me of it, though. I just couldn't remember or find the damn thing.
Thanks!
Chuck
Free Speech
Just my 0.00 cents in reply to Mike Lee's "Everyone who says any form of, "well, I believe in free speech, but clearly it must be responsible..." from Condi Rice to various people who've posted here is scraping and bowing to thugs. It's pathetic."
You can't yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater.
With rights come responsibilities.
There IS a line to be drawn somewhere.
I don't even have the time to figure out the issues being discussed - but the anything goes attitude rubs me funny so I thought I'd chime in.
(sorry, hit the button before pasting this last comment)
saw this on the web back in mid-January, thought it was still relevant.
"intelligent design" not science: Vatican newspaper
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060119/ts_nm/religion_catholic_evolution_dc
"The Church, which has never rejected evolution, teaches that God created the world and the natural laws by which life developed. Even its best-known dissident, Swiss theologian Hans Kueng, echoed this in a recent book in Germany." - L'Osservatore Romano (Vatican newspaper)
S!
the CDs arrived on Saturday, see below for when they were ordered
On the Road with Harlan Ellison Vols 1 and 2 from Deep Shag Records arrived on Saturday. I have listened to them twice now. #2 is better; better content, better recording quality. The equalization and remastering on #1 is very poor. Some parts are almost inaudible. Listening to them in the car, as I did, is NOT recommended.
I also got _The Comics Journal Library 6: The Writers_ on Saturday. Nice to have a clean copy of that interview, abridged as it is, on pages 81-157. The rest is ok too. The last page of the book says "To Be Continued..." as if we were actually waiting for more. The front cover says "Harlan Ellison (famous comics dilettante)" and the back cover has a quote ending with "There's no sense kicking cripples." So I wait in joyful anticipation of Harlan kicking someone publicly over this reprint without his knowledge or consent.
S!
Steve,
On the bright side, the Pope thinks Intelligent Design is stupid.
'Course, the word "stupid" is standing in here for a quite lengthy and elegant argument of quinimmo confido. You'd never catch a hyper-intellectual polyglot like Ratzy using the word "stupid".
Yeah, that Reverend sure showed a lot of class.
It was wonderful and got me all warm inside when Bush was taken into the woodshed, by all the ex-Presidents and civil rights leaders, at Coretta King's funeral today.
Bush looked like a figgety boy at the DMV.
concerted actions
> Does anyone remember the PissChrist riots?
I do. I told a southwestern Oregon audience that I was OUTRAGED that my tax dollars were going to support such FILTH and I never got a chance to SEE it. Then I sang Tom Lehrer's "Smut."
I also remember the great Last Temptation boycott.
Fight the power, don't believe the hype
http://www.manyflags.com/International/Denmark.asp
Buy one, display it...maybe you'll get lucky and someone will come along and burn it. Of course, most of your neighbors will probably think it has something to do with the Red Cross, but that's ok. It's the thought that counts, and since thoughts are on trial these days, ya might as well go outlaw, pilgrim...
Damn
I am really, really, really looking forward to the announcement of when Harlan's next collection will be published, who is publishing it, and what stories/commentaries will be included.
(I know the topic of Harlan's work isn't appropriate for this board, but I promise to get back to politics, jazz, social issues and other assorted diatribes in the coming days.)
Closing comments on the Middle East (since some here don't participate on the other board) (if I've so much as another word to add, it will be on the Dark Side of the Moon):
Steve Dooner:
I used a splice from an e-mail exchange without checking with you, and I apologize. That was totally inappropriate. It won't happen again.
Faisal,
I'm not referring to "YOU and YOUR people". You live in the UK, where you have choice. And you know full well that if you lived in some part of the Middle East you wouldn't have quite as much latitude.
Whenever we argue this issue you keep taking the cheap way out: "He's criticizing the Islamic system in Middle East countries, so he must be saying all Muslims think alike; he's making racist comments". Even though I included a comment in my post indicating that I don't see ALL Muslims in the same light. Yet, never will you address the questions raised. You merely dodge the issue and play the race card, living in denial. You can go on being a smart-ass about it, but that's not the intell