Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Archive - 08/08/2007 to 10/07/2007

Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

HARLAN: I've probably said it before, but I am a HUGE baseball fan. Out of the six thousand books in my tiny hovel, a good several hundred deal with the sport of bat, ball, and glove.

But I'm a homer; much as I respect players on other teams, I can never tear myself away from my beloved Phillies (NEXT year; twenty-eight is the charm ...). In fact, the only major league jerseys I would ever wear not in Phillies red, white, or 70's powder blue would be Mays, Williams, Jackie Robinson, Clemente (Saint 'Berto of San Juan), Hank Greenberg, Mo Berg, Pete Gray, Eddie Gaedel ...
Or Satchel Paige.

So it gives me great pleasure to inform you that comics writer James Sturm, he of THE GOLEM'S MIGHTY SWING, will be coming out with ... wait for it ... SATCHEL PAIGE: STRIKING OUT JIM CROW in December, from Hyperion in conjunction with The Center for Cartoon Studies. (drawn by Rich Tommaso)

Figured it would tickle you to know.

(As for other baseball books of note lately, I would highly recommend 7: THE MICKEY MANTLE NOVEL by sports writer Peter Golenbock. I've never been much of a Mantle fan; too much talent thrown away or thrown down the throat. But this book of reportage told as fiction is perhaps the only thing I've ever seen besides Billy Crystal's 61* which can make me sympathize with the Mick.

Also, be sure to hunt down THE SOUL OF BASEBALL: A ROAD TRIP THROUGH BUCK O'NEIL'S AMERICA by the excellent Kansas City Star sportswriter Joe Posnanski. If it doesn't have you smiling whilst misty-eyed throughout, you cannot be considered a baseball fan.
(and yes; I cry at baseball movies. Sue me.)

One other recommendation, but not a book. Check out http://www.baseball-reference.com for more information and stats about the sport than has ever been compiled in one place. The best thing is that you can make up stats of your own, like Most Doubles in a single season by a left-handed shortstop (Joe Sewell, '27 Indians). It is proof that the Internet is not a waste.

Oh! Also, you might like to know: Despite my homer tendencies, I will be pulling for your Indians to take the World Series trophy this year now that my Phils are (sob!) out of the hunt. First because I want to see Kenny Lofton with a ring, and second, because fifty-nine years is too long to wait.

Over the weekend, all this stuff about Blackwater inspired me to revisit the old Warren Beatty film THE PARALLAX VIEW. A true tribute to the fanatic's conviction in privatizing everything. (Sans regulation yet!)

The whole Bush/Cheney/Republican Neo-Con trip is getting creepier every day. And I've been listening more more to former Counsel to Nixon, John Dean on the subject; the sound bytes on so much falsified documentation he'd discovered amplifies the whole nightmare.

That's as good as this weekend got for ME!

and now something entirely different
Harlan
I was digging through my collection of books looking for some things that i had not gotten around to reading, with a large collection some things get hidden away, sometimes for years. I'm reading alot of landsdale right now and also i have come across several anthologies of the strange and horrible and in one titled Bordrlands, a well known series, i was surprised to find a story of yours titled Scartaris, June 28th. All i can say is I need to dig around more to find these hidden gems, incredible Harlan. Also I have a question for you, I'm a music junkie,like yourself, all kinds from Miles Davis to the Boss to CSNY to Cash. I read recently two books about the canyon scene of L.A. and the strip during the mid 60's to the late 70's.One titled laurel Canyon by Michael Walker and the other Hotel California and the true life stories of CSNY, Mitchell, Taylor, Browne, Ronstandt, Geffen and the Eagles by Barney Hoskyns...you wouldn't have wandered up laurel some Sat. afternoon in 69 or so, or up above the canyons to Mulholland to Jack or Marlons place and have any interesting stories to tell? I know your a busy guy but have you thought about writing your biography?? what a book it would be, sorry for the long post...go Indians.

Second Package -Zoiks, and away!
HARLAN: Due to the extremely chaotic conditions of the past few months and the fact that I DID NOT get any more than 2 or 3 hours of sleep during each of the past two nights -- if ANYone goes to Lee's Summit Missouri, avoid the Holiday Inn Express hotel off 291 (exit 12) AT ALL COSTS!! -- ...where was I?
Oh, yeah! Because I've been sleepless in a sea of obnoxious and discourteous (or average, at least around KC) Americans, I forgot to include an important thingee inside the package sent to you and Susan. Therefore, your four-pack of Wizard of Oz refrigerator magnets are on the way, as of yesterday. Whenever you are in need of help from your internet hoards, remember to whip out the "Don't Make Me Get My Flying Blue Monkeys!" magnet!

(Hey, this posting without recourse -- because I'm using another one o' these public forums -- is addictive! Webderland: Meet your new troll!!!! Ha, ha! Zoiks, and away!)

We fly tomorrow (gulp -- and yeeeeaaah)!
--DTS
P.S. Remember to check out 60 minutes tonight, 'cause Bruce (Springsteen) Almighty is being profiled!

KOS:

I live to serve your tiniest, most crample-hamm'd desire. No sooner asked-for than delivered, effendi:

Satchel Paige, a lifelong idol from my witling days till now, appears, along with many other members of the World Champion 1948 Cleveland Indians, in a story not so many years old, titled "Goodbye to All That." It can be found, in its entirety, in HARLAN ELLISON'S DREAM CORRIDOR, Volume 2, from Dark Horse.

Tsk-tsk, that you knew it not. Tsk, and I say yet once more, tsk, KOS-san.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Gotsta have dem facts???

Would those be the actual-facts facts or would those be the facts-bent-to-suit-a-higher-cause facts? Would that be evidence-not-tainted-by-the-suits evidence or evidence-properly-bent-by-us-champions-of-the-greater-good evidence?

Not weighing in on either side of the John Reed question because I haven't read enough by or about him. But I'd like to suggest, Frank, that you don't just shoot yourself in the foot when you make statements such as the one in the first paragraph of your last post -- you damn near blow your whole leg off.

How do any of us talk facts or evidence or common sense or much of anything else with each other if we can all feel free to bend the truth to suit whatever we think is a greater cause?


Bests to all,

--tr

SIMON VAUGHAN:

What Steve Barber said. In spades. To the max. Nth degree.

It continues to unman me, that even after all that has been said, all that has gone before, all the simple and easy-to-get straightforward COPYRIGHT FOR DUMMIES explanations that have made the legal and moral position explicable even to a fence-post, that seemingly otherwise intelligent persons STILL ... amazingly ... bewilderingly ... STILL, apparently, beyond belief, dyslectically DO NOT GET IT !!!

No brickbat, merely astonishment. Exactly how many times must some people have it explained to them that The Earth Is Not Flat, but if you choose to sail off the edge it's okay with me, just Don't Shanghai Me Aboard for the Unwanted Voyage?!!?

Yr. Pal, Harlan

KOS, how was John Reed a "pathological liar?" You need to give evidence and not just the stuff you read in the National Review or worse, Commentary. He may have bended the truth to suit a higher cause, which I fully support. Gotsta have dem facts, kid.

Progressive don't mean commie, it means the anti-slavery movements, the women's rights movements, the civil rights movements, etc...they built modern democracy and without them America would be a fascist state.

Sure it's fun to read wacky stuff, but if you don't learn any thing from it what is the point. You also never told me why you still aspire to being right wing? you do know the evidence is amazingly tipped to our side.

Evidence means things not tainted by elite hands. Never trust dem suits, natch.

I will take Naomi Klein over Che any ole day. she is alot cuter and much more alive. Yum.

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Will the fucking Yankees just lose already and get it over with. Not that big on the Indians, but damn, even Satan would be preferable to Steinbrenner's pigs. My rule, you buy wins you deserve to lose your ass. White collar teams are so over.

I feel for poor Joe Torre.

--------------

Great piece in Rolling Stone about the hapless, lumpen John McCain and his sinking battle-ship-of-shame.

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It seems the United States has been training Sunni extremists, brought in from Saudi Arabia to help Fatah stop the success of Hamas and Hezbollah. It backfired, as Hamas sent the motherfuckers packing. Seems the US wanted to foment a civil war in the occupied territories so that the peace process could never happen and Israel could continue to erect settlements.

The Al Qaeda of tommorow, funded by our wonderful government now. Sound familiar?

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Columbus was a monster, like Hitler, like Stalin, like Mao, like Pol Pot. We will have parades in his honor. Zeig Heil.

Quick addendum: I did not mean to imply that either scrib'd or Burgomeister posted the works of any of the below listed artist. They both illegally posted copyrighted works of writers without the permission of the copyright owners.

Norman Spinrad has every right to post his work wherever he sees fit. The brickbats are reserved for those people who post the works WITHOUT the consent of the artists or their agents.

That, in fact, is the core source of the brickbatting. If you post one of Harlan's stories, one of Adam-Troy's articles, one of Rob van Gessel's drawings, one of my photos, or one of John Pacer's paintings -- all of which are copyrighted works -- without our personal permission (which was done repeatedly by such sites as Scribd.com and my buddy the Burgomeister) you deserve your head delivered back to you en brouchette.

Spinrad CHOOSES this form of distribution, it wasn't chosen FOR him without his permission. THAT is the point of our repeated rants.

And yes, I need coffee.

I remember someone posting about the possibility of alternative views on copyright, and being roundly called a fool or worse for his/her troubles.

Perhaps Mr. Spinrad has offered such a view that won't so easily bring out the brickbats?

Lakefront Stadium
A few years ago I picked up on the day after New Years Day a cheap calendar (Does ANYone buy calendars the day BEFORE New Years Day for full-price?). Said calendar had twelve beautiful color reproductions of original paintings of major league ballparks.

One painting caught my eye: it was of a view from the upper deck, top row, right behind the plate of a game from 1954. The painting showed this -immense- stadium. Of course it was Cleveland's Lakefront Stadium. Apparently Lakefront held somethng like eighty-thousand baseball fans. Most Major League stadiums can hold, tops, fifty. Many, like that Bandbox From Hell otherwise known as "Fenway Park" (I am an Angels fan) host much less. The stands spread out forever to left and right, towering verandahs of shade and comfort. And then there was the field. That glorious sward of emerald just went on and on. Center field looked as if it reached half a mile into the gloaming. Beyond, if I recall rightly, was the lake.

It was awe inspiring. Like the scene in "2001" where Jupiter fills the screen, and the title below says "Jupiter - And Beyond, The Infinite".

The painting actually showed a moment in a game, the players standing where they actually would have, the score, the batter's coumt, the scores on the score board all as they actually had been. A moment in time from a game of infinite possibility. What I would not give to own the original painting!

Of all the stadiums I never got to watch a game in, that's the one I feel the worst about.

And you saw Satchel Paige.

At an official age of 42, Paige became the oldest rookie in Major League baseball history, and the first black pitcher. Paige soon proved he could still pitch and ended the year with a 6-1 record with a 2.48 ERA, 45 strikeouts and two shutouts.

Did you ever write a baseball story, and/or one with Satch in it?

I am going to be the most presumptuous I will ever be with you: if you have not, you ought.

I still have the calendar, if you want a print of the calendar page I refer to, I think I can wing it on my large format color doo-hickus.

KOS

PS

Yes, Frank. I Know the history of what you insist on calling "American Progressivism". Sure, from Upton Sinclair and EPIC to the union wars, and LaFollette of Wisonsin and IWW "One Big Union" and Joe Hill and yadda yadda.

Yep, I gots me friends who were Communists, and others who were socialists, and a couple who still are one or t'other, every one of 'em was/is more radical than you on your worst day.

As in their grandfather knew John Reed and was on the founding committee for the CPUSA, and they used to have posters of Karl Marx and Mao on their bedroom walls so they could dedicate even their sleeping hours to the dialectic. All that jazz.

Hell, I even sat through "REDS" while Warren Beatty turned a pathological liar into a secular saint, and didn't walk out of the theater. I viewed it as dark comedy of the best sort, even though inadvertent.

I know many of the stories, most of the traditions, and that Americans just need to be brought to realize that they really ae radical, if they would just embrace their own heritage.

It's all bullshit, but I am well versed in most forms of bullshit, so why not this also?

Know thy enemy, and that sort of thing, in other words.

Just my opinion. My informed opinion. I have shelves full of books with titles such as "In Defense Of Anarchism" and "The Jungle". Authors such as Proudhon, Bakunin and Orwell (his essays on the Spanish Anarchists are priceless) abound in my Scholars Mistress.

I even correspond with people such as David Greaeber (anarchist writer and anthropologist, formerly of Yale, now at the London School of Economics) and Douglas Lain (notorious Seattle Progressive SF writer and activist).

I think I could even hold a civil conversation with Cory Doctorow.

Not that you were trying to be patronizing, but you can't patronize me.

KOS

Spinrad on Scribd.com
http://www.scribd.com/doc/326098/OSAMA-THE-GUNnovel-portion-

is where Norman has posted - with an explanation - the first third of his as-yet-unpublished novel, OSAMA THE GUN.

JOSH - If you have not yet noticed, Stephen King entitled this week's column in Entertainment Weekly "A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE", and uses the film as a stepping-off point for his comments.

Just thought you'd like to see it if you hadn't.

BBC Arena on Superman
For those who have downloaded the BBC iPlayer, they'd be interested in an old BBC Arena documentary on Superman from the early 1980's. Interesting for a excerpt from Will Eisner's lecture to students discussing Superhero characters. Check it out.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/

The Man with the Scarf, et al.
Jason M. - lots of people have made that mistake about me, even among those who know me. Ain't no thang.

Steve Evil - Genesis of the Daleks by Ellison? Yeah, I kinda can imagine it, actually: "I am a Dalek, I have no mouth. And I must scream, "EXTERMINAAAAAATE!!!"

Also, re: the Schindler's List/terrorists thread - I'm YouTubeless at this terminal and haven't seen the video, so I've no idea if it's at all relevant, but I did want to relate an interesting incident that happened when the movie played here. The local foetus fetish brigades were out in force around town at the time, and had a regular and predictable habit of shooting themselves in their collective foot every time they tried some "save the fetii" tactic.

Well, they sure done did it when Schindler's came out, waiting around outside the theater to hand out "ABORTION = HOLOCAUST" flyers to people departing the movie. Some of the folks who received these were not too pleased about it, particularly among the local Jewish community. (There was an even bigger row raised not long after when they started distrubuting glossy color 8x10s of foetus salsa in random people's mailboxes and mixed in with their Sunday papers...)

The Man with the Scarf.
"Genesis of the Daleks" by Harlan Ellison. Could you imagine?

I do have that intro, and I think he nails it, putting into words what I've always attempted to.

Marvelous as the new series is, it can never compare with that original discovery week after week of something wonderous and magical. Watching that while growing up tought me more about right and wrong and ethical behaviour than reading the Bible ever did.

Fully Upgraded,

-Steve E.

P.S. The series two finale was rubbish. We all know the Cybermen could kick the Daleks' ass!

The Missing Crackle -- and note
HEY HARLAN: A dog-tired Dorman here, typing through the good offices of a local library and my kid's lending card. Don't start screaming and kicking or anything, but...it's been a helluva a week/month/Fall, and I didn't get a chance to pick up the crackle before being relegated to my particular circle (where internet connections don't exist, romper/stompers live above our heads and slamming doors are all the rage). So...no crackle in the package mailed off to you a day or two ago.

But!!!
You did get a copy of the "Book" issue with the article on author's "stunts" (yours being writing in windows) and it is bookmarked (pun unintended) by several old photos of you and the Electric Babe: at the Denver Horror Convention in 2000, and in front of the NLB Museum. As a little something extra, I included a copy of "Buck" O'Neil's jersey when he played with the Kansas City Monarchs. Tres cool, and all the rage when you next visit KC for some good BBQ eats.

I'll write you guys when I get to Melbourne (we fly on the 8th -- finally! -- and send you lots of love via postcards, pictures and...a renewal of my subscription to HERC). You'll be pleased to know that I've been staring at a reasonable facsimile of your face as I type this -- it's emblazoned on my daughter's chest! No, no, no, no! She didn't get the latest in tattoos. She's wearing my old "Graffti Designs" tshirt which has that great Kent Bash drawing on it. We figure it'll scare off all of the were-wallabies that confront us once we get Down Under! (Even better than Silver Bullets: the stern, no-nonsense countenance of Unca Harlan).

Till Sometime after Oct 8th,
I remain your son by another mother,
Dorman (XXXOOO)

Kos, he meant that according to very good public opinion the public largely supports pretty radical ideas, like higher taxes for corporations, more international cooperation, even a reducing of the defense budget; no Democrat, no matter how liberal, would even go for that. The public favors socialized medicine and are mostly against unilateral interventions. Propaganda and economic, social diversions are what keeps the public from understanding their latent leftism. Hell, how many people know about the history of the modern progressive movement? Do you?

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Ray, now you can do better then that. Osama also quotes from Bush. Hitler used to quote FDR, does that mean FDR was happy about what Hitler did? Come on man, that was low.

The left warned America about Islamic radicalism way before anyone else did. We told America not to fund the crazies that fought the USSR in Afghanistan; we warned about supporting the Saudi Arabian royal family. Blowback is a bitch and she has lipstick that doesn't wash away.

Harlan Ellison's request for the Schindler's List YouTube DVD
I'll burn it to DVD for you. I was able to do it before.

Brian Phillips, who thinks that "gardyloo" sounds like Stanley Unwin describing "one who protects".

Harlan- you're welcome jz

$ ( or -c-? )
A quick thought on future gift giving to Harlan:

How about throwing a coupla bucks to Rick Wyatt, Harlan's long suffering webmaster? This website is a labor of love, but a little change tossed in the general direction of Rick's PayPal account (does that still exist, Rick?) would help defray some of the costs.

As we all know, love don't come cheap.

Just a thought.

Thanks, Jan.

Thanks for the gift, Jon Manzo.

Thanks for the gift, Ryan Leasher.

Thanks for the gift, Leigh Blackmore.

Thanks for the gift, John Zeock.

Thanks for the gift, Doug Alexander.

Thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the gift thanks for the fucking gifts already!!!

Yr. thankful pal, Harlan

You ask if I am an Indians fan.

I'm the guy from Cleveland who, in 1948, saw Satchel Paige pitch in the Major Leagues for the first time, in the old Lakefront Stadium in Cleveland.

Am I an Indians fan?

Who wouldn't be after watching Kenny and Perez and C.C. (once he setttled down) kick acres and acres of serious Yankee butt last night!?! CUH-LEEVE-UH-LUHND ROCKS!

Further, deponent sayeth not

I've send the owner of the video an e-mail with your address, so if he checks his mails I'm sure he'll turn up here and you'll get a decent-quality copy from him.

JAN or ANYBODY ELSE WHO CAN DO THE JOB:

If y'all scroll to Jan's last post, you'll see he gives a URL on YouTube that brings up my bud Joe Straczynski retelling the fabulous incident of Joe&Harlan&TheTerrorists at "Schindler's List." I gather it is copacetic to download the YouTube stuff, and I would dearly adore having a copy of Joe's narration--far more tame than when I tell it--for the archive. I will recompense whoever can pull this and send it to me c/o HERC...or my home if you are a close enough friend to have it.

Thank you in advance. Yr. Pal, Harlan

October Country
A few months ago, in their corporate wisdom, my company moved me to a new office at twice the commuting distance from home, as well as three times the distance from my actual responsibilities.

Until today I haven't seen much good or enticing in the move.

My little gray cube (another change from my previous office) sits a handful of feet from the emergency stairwell. Other than the occasional amusement when someone gets trapped, this has been a selling point only when the alarms sound.

But...

It's a blustery day here in the OC, and I have found a positive to my prison.

On blustery days, the wind slips into the stairwell, and escapes into the suite with a low tone strongly reminiscent of the sound of the wind in the TWILIGHT ZONE episode THE GRAVE. (That's the episode where a cowboy accepts a bet to stab the grave of a dead outlaw -- he is later found dead of a heart attack himself, with his cloak pinned to the grave by his own knife.)

That sound effect, and others like it, gave me hours of the creeps growing up, in a very good way. It's one of those things that just cuts right through me and makes me smile -- happily but nervously.

It's a wonderfully surreal sign that it's October, even in the OC.

Noam Chomsky
When none other than Osama Bin Laden, hisownself, quotes with relish (hold the mustard) the words of Noam Chomsky, as he did in his last video, well... Noam must be very proud indeed.

W. Powell
Mistook your amusement for confusion. Sorry.

HERC INFO FOR MITCH
Mitch,

It costs USD 15.00 to join HERC, and that gets you six issues of the Rabbit Hole newsletter--which is, of course, the coolest newsletter in the known universe. Send a cheque or money order to The Harlan Ellison Recording Collection, P.O. Box 55548, Sherman Oaks, CA 91413-0548.

By the way, you owe me a dog from Pink's, just mustard.

D.

eBay/Daleks, cont'd
Jason M. - Oh yeah, I'd definitely scrolled down to look at the entire description before posting about it, and I've no more doubt than you that it's unintentional. I also own a copy of the book, so I'm only too aware of who wrote what therein (right down to the Terry Nation credit for having created the Daleks). Just thought it was a momentarily amusing diversion at the very least.

That said, although I've been reading quite a few of those old novelizations for backstory to the new revived series, I've still ended up being a good deal more entertained by HE's intro to the Pinnacle editions than by most (not all) of the actual televised episodes of old-school Doctor Who that I've seen.

(A quote from our illustrious host therein bears repeating here: "I envy you your first exposure to this amazing conceit. And I wish for you the same delight I felt when Michael Moorcock, the finest fantasist in the English-speaking world, sat me down in front of his set in London, turned on the telly, and said, 'Now be quiet and just watch.'" Though the new show's certainly become my latest obsession as regards the vidiot box, some night when I've a bit more time I'll relate the less-than-optimal experience that said first viewing entailed for me.)

Mr. Chisel


Dear Confused in California,

Mr. Chisel means no disrespect. It's not his name that holds meaning but what he is. I thought you might get a kick out of it after our last conversation about Ray and his Sharpie-signing tendencies. Yeah, I realize it's late for the joke, but it was inexpensive and thought it might get a laugh. I did not realize that I would end up afraid that thunder might rain down from the hills.

I have been enlightened; it shan't happen again.

--
Ryan

herc
I know it's been covered over and over again, but I've looked through several days worth of posts and I can't find any reference to HERC. There's a reference to it on the website, but I don't think the price is correct. Can someone please provide me with the correct information? I'd really appreciate it.


thanks
Mitch Keith

...It would be interesting to see: Harlan REFUSING to be faithful to his own story...

Well, my thoughts are drifting today.

I was just thinking about Harlan's earlier reference to versing in history of the American West, or lacking thereof, that might have otherwise inspired him to write more stories in the genre.

A couple o'years ago, I got semi-obsessed with the "myth versus reality" of the Old West. I began grabbing books about it, and even a high-grade magazine called The Old West, which had just come out with its first issue, all exposing the bullshit the public could no longer recognize as myth since the 1890's (thereby reinforcing so many stereotypes and false fears).

It can really can get fascinating:

There was the complex story of the deceptive advertising put out by big business (esp. the railroads), with help from the government, urging pioneers to move out West and take the vast fertile land awaiting them - only for the pathetic wretches to learn, after traveling over a thousand miles, that it was mostly rock and dirt, completely barren and infertile.

There was the story about Coca-Cola, which was originally developed in the U.S. as a cure for headaches, derived from a German drug company that has been producing cocaine for the market.

Cities and towns everywhere stank like all holy hell - with so much manure, mud and water in the streets as populations grew. Cities would inevitably become petri dishes for deadly disease.

There's the story about real gunslingers versus the ones romanticized in the movies: the real ones more often got the opponent by surprise; visibility for a clear target was very poor because the pistols produced so much smoke.

In the 1820s, steam boats brought pioneers to starting point of Oregon and Santa Fé Trail.

Around 1860, the Pony Express service connected the East and the West. Couriers carried letters from Missouri to California in 10 days. The route - like a militia - contained 190 stations, about 80 riders and 500 horses. But because the charges did not meet the costs, the system was financially unsuccessful, and the express went bankrupt.

The Indians: From what I've read, they were murdered not simply because their land was needed - because, in reality, arrangements could have been made as the land was wide enough for everyone - but because of outright intolerance. MOST whites really believed the natives a threat to the Myth of the White Man, and the more Indians eliminated the better.

SCALPING - long identified as almost innate behavior of American Indians - had been long practiced in Europe and Asia. In the earlier colonial years, the western border of the colonies was being populated with settlers that were comprised of a shitload of dubious types. Outlaws, runaways, and so on. With them they brought disease and alcohol. The frontier was a breeding ground for conflict with the Indian population. Initially the frontiersmen turned on the Indians in an attempt to move their asses off the land. When the Indians retaliated, the settlers turned to the government for help. The settlers demanded retribution for the Indian reprisals. The Dutch, and soon after the English, government created the scalp bounty as a means to pacify the settlers. Simply, they paid a fee for each scalp that was delivered to the locally appointed magistrate.

The first reported case of white men scalping Native Americans
took place in a New Hampshire colony in 1725.

Thus, although, from my understanding, a few Indian tribes HAD practiced scalping to a limited extent before the Europeans arrived, it was clear that it was more largely an act taught them by Europeans - when tribes experienced first hand the image of their families and friends mutilated after an attack by white settlers. Scalping would become a practiced response in kind.

And then later, in the 19th century, pioneers of the First Frontier, who did all the discovery, were cheated by the pioneers of civilization of the second Frontier - largely due to laws that were easily disputed.

The term 'Manifest Destiny' was used by the Americans as a justification for the territorial expansion of the United States. The term was used to defend the Mexican War, the Alaska Purchase and the Spanish-American War, all ending in territorial gains for the United States. It would also be implemented without conscience by the wealthiest, at the expense of those who had little or nothing. That's the reason regulation would be resisted until the 20th century came along.

Due to the increasing violence, especially in the Californian mining regions, people were often forced to take the law in their own hands. These mostly often self-appointed lawmen were called regulators or vigilantes. After brief trials, bold claim jumpers or criminals were often hanged, flogged or driven out of the camp.

Since it was financially more lucrative to be a lawman, many former outlaws had become sheriffs. A sheriff who executed arrest warrants and judgments, would get money for those arrests and also a certain percentage of the taxes he collected.

Even though the image of the lawmen is a good one in films and novels, reality proved to be different. Personal interests and revenge were easier to achieve with a badge on the breast.

N'then thar's th' Cowboy. Ever stalwart in the movies, the REAL cowfolk was in fact a poorly paid laborer doing a tough and monotonous job. Cowboys became important after the mid-1860's, after the Civil war as the range cattle industry developed. The majority of the cowboys came from the South, just because the ranges were in the South, but there also existed cowboys from Northern States. Most of the had fought in the Civil War. There were also blacks and Mexicans that were cowboys, not all of them were whites. The year of a cowboy focused on two events, the roundup and the long drive. Spring and often fall were the times for roundups. The cowboy had to drive the cattle together at a certain location and then the newborn calves were branded and the older animals were castrated and dehorned. Further, the cattle which will be sold on the market are selected.


After 1890, the cattle ranges had been fenced in and the railroad system had extended to remove the need for long cattle drives. Thus, the cowboy era was over. In literature, however, the cowboy era begun and although the upcoming image of a cowboy was not realistic, it continued to dominate the popular stories of the cattle frontier.

The term Cowboy was used as an invective against all characters who appeared to be asocial, a cowboy was described as a rough guy with stare eyes, putting his trousers in big boots. The cowboy is another example for converting something alien into something native. In the 19th century, nothing was less American for the Yankee than the cowboy, and now nothing seems to be more American than "The Great American Cowboy".

Yet, the cowboys found freedom without violence, and it gave mobility to different races. Many blacks and whites co-mingled as cowboys.

Getting back to frontier life, life expectancy was generally very short. The endless strain of hard work, childbearing, and sickness, in addition to the fear of Indian attacks, caused most women to grow old before the age of 40.

Many stories of the real life back then are well-documented in the magazine "The Old West". Every one of 'em pulls you in, forcing you to imagine the chances of your own survival in such a world. I only got a few issues. I may go out there and start getting them again.

Noam Chomsky?
Noam Chomsky said: "...it's not too well known but in the United States, there was never a powerful organized left, but in many ways it's one of the most leftist societies in the world."

and Noam Chomsky also said: "You know it's kind of suppressed by lots of propaganda and repression and so on, but it's just below the surface..."

Breathtaking.

Brilliant.

Just brilliant.

"Why, yes, Noam, now that you mention it, the Emperor DOES have rather nice new clothes! Why didn't -I- see that?"

Cleveland's winning. Are you an Indians' fan, Harlan?

KOS

Thank you, Scott. I have now (finally!) seen The Discarded. I loved it, very good interpretation of the story. Thanks to Harlan and Josh for being so faithful to the story, right to the inevitable painful ending.

Favorite western movie: It would be a tie between High Noon and the Big Country. High Noon had it all and I love the synchronistic time thing.

As for The Big Country, Gregory Peck was in his prime. This is a terrific movie for heterosexual females; I admit that part of my appreciation for this movie is seeing Peck looking better than any man has a right to look. Burt Lancaster didn't look too bad, either. Burl Ives was brilliant. The story was classic but well plotted and paced. And there was that great theme music....

Derek Anderson: I am a teacher, have taught high school recently, was just transferred to teaching adults (I work in a state hospital). If I understand the copyright laws in regard to teaching literature in a classroom, if you are using copies to teach students, I do not think that violates the copyright laws. That's assuming you don't let copies of it out of your classroom and that you do have a copy or copies of the book purchased for classroom use. If I am wrong, someone here please correct me.

Ellison mention in Kevin Smith interview
Did anybody catch this? Harlan is mentioned briefly in a new interview with director Kevin Smith over at IGN.com. Here's the link. Go to the bottom of the page, where Smith and the interviewer are talking about Terminator:

http://tv.ign.com/articles/822/822775p2.html

J

Chomsky, Chomsky, haha:

http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=45&ItemID=13946

Pirates of Dark Water
There's some nostalgia for you.

Jan - I was once the 'kung fu grip demonstration dummy' for Harlan's retelling of the "Schindler's List" tale. (I really need to get a copy of that video - who's got Foolscap?) Believe me, the interactive Ellison version is not to be missed.

In the New York and Los Angeles areas: you people are getting the refurbished, freshly cleaned, pressed and tweaked BLADE RUNNER on the big screen starting tomorrow, at the Ziegfeld and the Landmark, respectively. Don't waste the opportunity. Some of us in third-world cities feel neglected.

Derek - My only guess would be to try to contact him through either Subterranean Press or Gauntlet Press; Christopher has contributed intro material to publications of his father's work by both presses.

All - If the gods are kind, my plan is to consult my notes and assemble a recounting this weekend of the Cleveland escapade, top to bottom, secret tales and lighting debacles, testimonials and film surprises, in full blush and - hey, is that smoke coming out of my compu

Harlan, your memory is amazing. SADDLE TRAMP is not part of your bibliography as presented by Webderland, though THE FINAL PUSH is. (I assume that you wrote TRAMP during your pulp years.)

"J. Michael Straczynski tells a story of when he and Harlan Ellison went to see Schlinder's list."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8J5tmscEKhQ

Has anyone ever seen THE GODSON (1971), which had a scene shot in Harlan's house and which was supposedly Harlan's screen debut? (True?) It was pretty definitely a Grindhouse movie. Just curious.

The whole animated adventure series of THE PIRATES OF DARK WATER has been online for a while in three places, including y**t***. (See info on piratesofdarkwater.net) As far as I know, this is sort of a derelict, half-forgotten show, unfinished and barely shown anywhere, nor scheduled to be released in some permanent form. Harlan did some guest voices, but no episode-specific credits are available (apart form the end credits of the show itself). I didn't find him in episodes 1, 2, and 6 (of 21). I'll keep looking, but perhaps someone else has more luck.

Any hints, Harlan?

Ultra-quick Addendum
Adding to my comments on PUSHING DAISIES, I should note here that one of my own newsgroup denizens likened it to "(something) directed by Tim Burton with a script by Jay Ward based on a story by Harlan Ellison..."

Oakley Hall
is another name I'd like to add to our growing list of brilliant western writers: WARLOCK (which Thomas Pynchon has called one of the great American novels), THE BAD LANDS and APACHES. A few years ago, Harlan hipped me to Hall's current series of mysteries featuring Ambrose Bierce.

A bit of help . . .
I was curious if someone on the board could help me out. I am a High School Language Arts teacher, and I want to use Charles Beaumont's short story "The Howling Man" in my class. I want to do the right thing and respect copyright, so I'm trying to see if I can work something out with the copyright holders. I'm assuming in this case that it would be Christopher Beaumont, his son, but I can't seem to find any contact information for him. Any suggestions for how to proceed?

All the best,

Derek

Thank you and "...aisies"
Thanks for the kind words, Mr. Ellison; they brightened an otherwise dim day. I appreciate the sentiment and it's good to know that I didn't tick you or anyone else off unintentionally. It's always interesting to read your writings and wonderful to have the ability to converse on occasion, (i.e, the mystery of "boo-dow" was solved). Your post regarding "thread-drift" didn't make me wish to leave this board, just to be more careful when I post, which is never a bad idea.

I saw the last half of "Pushing Daisies" and it is not a show that you start watching from the middle. It is intriguing enough to tune in next week, unless some wrongheaded executive touches it. The tone of the show reminded me of "Eerie, Indiana", but I wonder whether this concept will buoy a series.

For those with PC's and a high-speed connection, you can watch "Pushing Daisies" on ABC's website.

Brian Phillips

Jason,
Jason,

All over Amazon.Com, the folks who write intros to other books are given bylines equal to those of the authors. I wrote a book with an intro by a 9 year old and a 12 year old, and they have their only Amazon listings because of that. The E-Bay listing, which seems designed to impart info in the smallest possible space, looks to be more of the same. No biggie.

Everyone:

PUSHING DAISIES. Delightful. Best show of the new TV season. See it before it disappears.

A-TC

eBay/Daleks
W.POWELL

You left out some important punctuation. The eBay auction is labeled:

"Doctor Who Genesis of the Daleks by Harlan Ellison, ..."

The comma and ellipsis suggests what has happened. If you go down to the more complete item description, you see the authors listed are "Harlan Ellison, Terrance Dicks". Harlan wrote the introduction, Terrance Dicks wrote the novel.

The seller has likely labeled the item, in full, "Doctor Who Genesis of the Daleks by Harlan Ellison, Terrance Dicks". However, the length of that title exceeds what is displayed, and eBay has cut it off with the aforementioned ellipsis, leaving only Harlan's name and the comma visible in the header.

While it's possible the seller did this purposefully in order to be misleading, looking at other items he has for sale leads me to believe that the error was made honestly. He has several other items which end with that same ellipsis, such as "Women Who Run With the Wolves by Clarissa Pinkola Es..." and "Only Earth and Sky Last Forever. by Nathaniel Benchl..."

I come forth from the inter-webs to solve all mysteries. Please tip your waitresses on the way out.

This is interesting...
Someone on eBay is offering a copy of "Doctor Who Genesis of the Daleks by Harlan Ellison".

The URL is too damn long to post, so I'll just refer the reader to auction #4524610504 instead.

Vegas and Beyond...

Back from the sojourn to the land of sin. Had a wonderful time. Lost less than usual at the tables.

Met up with Kurt Rasmussen, the wunderkind percussionist who liveth at "O" -- a gentle soul who makes the trek to Vegas worth the cost given his skills and friendship, and is one of the nicest folks ever. And, as usual, he contributed some truly incredible stuff to Cris' new CD.

I am authorized to tell this board, just you all, that the name of the new CD is "THIS MOMENT TO BE FREE".

We're all very excited. Yes, still.

(Y'see, oh Cleveland Kids, THAT's all we ask. No opi (opuses? Opusaron?), just the facts.
_______________________________________

HARLAN - Will call you tomorrow to schedule a time to finish my work.

BTW - In Vegas, I ran across the gallery for an artist I'd never heard of before, but found his work strongly evoking Jacek Yerka's. The name of the guy is Vladimir Kush, a Russian emigre who now lives in Hawaii.

http://www.vladimirkush.com/home.php

Just wondering if you have the same reaction...
____________________________________

Lastly: For those of you "flustrated" by the disappearing Opi (Opuses? Opusamos?), highlight the essay and copy it before hitting "Preview" or "Send Message". Makes the recovery much simpler and stress free.

Unsolicited gifts
Mr. Ellison,

I just saw you say you don't like getting unsolicited gifts.
I hope I didn't create an uncomfortable moment giving you
the blotter in Cleveland. I wanted to show my appreciation
for all your works have given me but I probably should have
considered you get stuff from fans all the time and that it
can add up. If you have no place for it please feel free to
discard it. Should I have the good fortune to see you speak
in person again I'll content myself to buying cool books to
show my appreciation. The adding to my collection being an
added bonus of that plan.

ASK AUNTIE LEASHER

Dear Auntie L:

Your scapegrace nephew, Ryan--who lives well within nearby down th'hill bitchslappin' Burbank closeness to me--has sent me a peculiar item. Mr. Chisel??? Is your goofy nephew suggesting I'm a chiseler??? What the hell (parm'my langwidge, ma'am) I*S this thing, and W*H*Y has he sent it to me??? Does he not know I already have a laaaaaarge house gorged belly-to-butt with tchotchkes up the gee-gee? (Also ??.) Does he not understand that I really don't like getting gifts unsolicited??? Does he not understand that if ANYONE wants to send me unsolicited gifts it would have to be one of the VERY EXPENSIVE historical miniatures Aero Art offers as part of the St. Petersburg Collection??? Please, Auntie L, tell me what's going on here.

Yrs., Confused in California

Well, duh
This week's Cleveland Free Times has a feature titled "Best of All Time"--Clevelanders, that is--and, despite GLARING omissions: Herbert Gold, Raymond DeCapite, and the lovely and exciting Sarah Willis, they have had the wisdom to list Harlan as one of the 10 best writers from Cleveland, ever. Well, duh. It's an "okay" profile. Check it out: http://www.freetimes.com/stories/15/22/writers

Harlan: two copies in the mail to you tomorrow.
RonA

Why a WGA?
Mark Evanier does an excellent job of explaining the importance of the Writers Guild to an inquiring reader.

http://www.newsfromme.com/archives/2007_10_03.html#014116

bRIAN PHILLIPS:

Don't you DARE go away! If I'd thought for an instant that my gardyloo would induce you to dash off, I'd never have entered it! You did nothing wrong! "Thread-drift" is a concommitant of the internet, apparently, built in, unavoidable, often miraculously informative and fun, once in a while a bore ... but absolutely no reason for us to lose a good guy in the mix.

Please hang out. You are most welcome here.

As is DIANE BARTELS. Hello, to you, Ms. Bartels. Yes, you'll find Webderland a refreshing tropical isle of courtesy and ratiocination mid the Sargasso of spiteful, generally fucked-up websites where diminished egos plunge their stingers into the poison pods for strafing runs elsewhere...once in a while even here. Which is why we keep the Flit always within reach.

And JAN, if I'm recalling correctly (and Tim Richmond's book will soon be the variorum reference in such matters), I only wrote three westerns: "The End of the Time of Leinard," which you know; "The Final Push," and "Saddle Tramp." Love westerns, but never felt I was deeply enough steeped in the patois, the history, or the authenticity to do the job with any superior skill. But I DO loves my western reading!

Yr. Pal, Harlan

A novel idea. Sorry!
Had I read what Mr. Ellison said about "thread-drift", I would have kept my trap shut about western movies. I read this board at work, and I don't go back far enough in postings sometimes. I will try not to make the same mistake again.

I'll go back to reading about Harlin and leave Harlan Ellison alone, until I have something of interest/worth to contribute.

Thanks to all for the recommendations of Western literature. This is the kind of information I find quite valuable.

Awaiting the new edition of "Harlan Ellison's Watching",
Brian Phillips

Tim Lowe, Too bad the writer screwed up some of HE's titles. The Ticktockman "said", not "cried". Also, he forgot the comma in "I Have No Mouth, And I Must Scream".

EU
Harlan, have you done any Western writing after your pulp period? Apart from "The End of Time of Leinard", which I'll reread, now that you've all put me in the mood...

It's interesting that the US and Europe will always be on a different page when it comes to Westerns. Their popularity over here was limited, and many of the films and writers that you guys mention I've never seen/heard of. Speaking strictly for Germany, the first wildly successful Western movies were family films produced in Germany/Jugoslavia ("Winnetou" etc.) and Italian/Spanish Westerns, such as Leone's films and the Bud Spencer/Terence Hill vehicles ("Ace High" etc. - misdubbed in the US, I trust). Americans such as Hawks and Ford had small audiences, while more artsy films such as "Johnny Guitar" are considered classics. The biggest Western in my lifetime was "Dances with Wolves", which I consider one of the greatest movies ever made. I've seen it many times, as I did Leone's big one, which used to be my favourite movie and perhaps still is.

I think the Western mentality carried over into many of the surrounding genres, like tv science fiction, noir and crime books due to writers growing up with Westerns or switching genres. Elmore Leonard's crime novels are a good example, as are many of today's action movies coming out of Hollywood (Live Free and Die Hard, for example). I think that if you were to take the "Wild West residue" out of American movies, they would suddenly look much more European. I think that's what's been happening slowly for the past few decades, though it's part of what Europeans like enjoy about American movies.

Tribute to Harlan from a somewhat different angle:

http://www.valdostadailytimes.com/deancolumn/local_story_275231156.html

Russia
If you want do delete your site from our spam bases - just email us with domain of your site:

abuse-here@inbox.ru

thank you!

thanks, Josh
Josh, thanks for your behind the scenes story about History of Violence. I wasn't exactly accurate or fair in saying "simple in theme". If anything, I think you created a shorter plot, but a more complex and thought provoking theme -- by making Tom & Ritchie bros in the mob, and the ending ambiguous. I'm glad you stuck to your guns, and a benefit to all of us that the studio let it happen. I think it worked much better than the liberties taken with Road to Perdition.

Nebraska? Grew up there. Lincoln location. It was nothing short of entertaining to be surrounded by the few but potent urban myths about Starkweather, the Badlands movie, Willa Cather, King's "Children of the Corn," ... and later in my adult life, bookended by Harlan's "Sensible City," at which time I could do more than chuckle out loud.

hi, everyone, how are you all? I am so happy this web site exists. Just when I think all is lost, the people here give me an inkling of hope that somewhere there are one or two people left of intelligence and heart and sense. My favorite western film is The Magnificient Seven. I liked Lonesome Dove a lot as a book. Mr. E., I sympathize with your loss of writing material. When my computer died in 96, I lost part of my novel, several poems, a few short stories and several games and other program. Lucky for me, I had back up copies of all except one short story, which I have not recreated til this day. By backup, I mean paper. I still write original of everything on paper with pen. It is second and third drafts that make it to the old computer. And I always print a paper copy after I finish. Just what works for me. Now here is why I really delurked tonite. In response to Frank's post, this post is a lot to you. I think we share similar political views; despite the ravages of bush and bush, this is still America, and still a Republic and still a Democracy. We need to be out of the Middle East and Iraq now, not next year or month or week. We have no right to be there, and we are causing a situation which threatens the peace and existence of this world. On the news tonite, I heard that the total of civilian bodies found on the streets of Baghdad has fallen from 600 something in a month to 450 or 460. And this is progress? That's almost a thousand men women and kids. We are never going to stabilize that area. It's been at war for 5000 years among the tribes and peoples. And the Sunnis and Shites have been killiing each other for 1000 years. We need to let all of those poor people resolve their differences and problems for themselves, as we reserve the write to do for ourselves. The Democrats need to realize that the mandate they were given in the last Congressional election can be as quickly revoked by we the people. The demon in our White House needs to be impeached asap, before he starts a war with Iran and Russia and God knows who else - the Republic of Ireland for all I know.
Sorry all for the rant, but I'm really scared and really mad and for the very first time in my 47 years, I'm ashamed to be and American. By the way, Harlan, I was rereading Angry Candy the night before last and one reason I love your books is you always send me to my big old dictionary several times. That's kinda cool. And by the way by the way, Lee Marvin and Van Heflin were/are really dreamy. A lighter note. Night all. Good dreams

JOSH,

William Hurt's a buddy of yours? Really?

Well, if you bump into him again, tell Mr. Hurt that I wish him the very best of luck as General "Thunderbolt" Ross on THE INCREDIBLE HULK.

To heck with psychotic mob bosses. Convincingly selling a character who hunts 12-foot green-skinned behemoths for a living takes some badass talent.

USA
If you want do delete your site from our spam bases - just email us with domain of your site:

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thank you!

I slip in as a shadow, mere to second John Zeock's admonition to look up the few westerns written by my late Texican friend, Chad Oliver. How I could have overlooked Chad's ONLY EXQUISITE contributions to the genre--Spur winners--is as far beyond me, and as embarrassing as, misspeaking a Dutch Leonard masterpiece for a Louis L'Amour masterpiece. I grow old, the lights dim, the tongue swells in the dry mouth. I go to meet Cheops.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

western fiction
The Cannibal Owl by Chad Oliver

low expectations

Zack:

You SHOULD keep your expectations low -- about this as about almost anything else. That something is Jewish hardly means it is going to be, by definition, good.

There are almost as many kinds of Judaism as there are of Christianity -- and a world of difference between Orthodox, Lubavitch, Hasidic, Conservative, Reform, Reconstructionist, and many other, smaller varieties.

Odds are you're going to be attending a Conservative or Reform service, which at least have the virtue of not expecting you to check your brain at the door, the way so many other sects (e.g., Catholic, Missouri Synod Lutheran, Southern Baptist, etc.) do.

But there are even different strains of Reform Judaism developing right now -- some adhering to the classic social activism of 19th century Reform, and some moving toward greater spiritualism.

You could visit services at a half a dozen different synogogues and still not be clear about what Judaism is, or is up to these days.

And there are plenty of Reform Jews in the U.S. today who know very little about Jewish history, practice, or law. For them, it's all about food and good works, at best.

Thanks Y'all!
Just want to say thanks to everyone who answered my question regarding the Jewish service. I'm looking for a yarmelke. I look forward to going, but really, I have low expectations. Not because it is a JEWISH service, but because it is a service in this town. So far they have all been the same, no matter the religion. Anyone with overt religious happenings in this town tends to be an ass. I hope it won't be that way at the temple, but it might.

Speaking of good movies, 2am Friday, TCM will be showing the great b movie grindhouse ditty Born Losers, with one of my favorite good guy hero's, the asskicking Indian Billy Jack. He stumbles upon a group of crazed bikers and a hot babe and basically kills the bikers, fucks the babe. This is before he does that odd hippie film, with asskicking on the side.

Does make a good case that pacifism can be a really bad idea.

-----------

William Hurt is god--did I say that?

BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN
Josh,

Ditto on BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN.

You know, back when the movie was in theatres, I produced a memorable rant on the subject of right-wing personalities trashing this film they hadn't seen, and centering on this meme used by Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, and several other Faux Noise personalities, to the effect that they wouldn't see BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN on a bet, as they considered it immoral and sexually suspect, but were really looking forward to Peter Jackson's KING KONG. (This was the meme floating around the aether for a while: specifically, BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN vs KING KONG. They weren't alone in citing it. You know these guys. They all get their talking points from the same places.)

I recognized it then as a form of faux-populism; i.e., We're not interested in this gay art film but we do want this other entertainment that won't preach its values at us. Had it not been KING KONG it would have been whatever epic was in the theatres right then. INDEPENDENCE DAY would have been a natural, for those guys.

But KING KONG was the one in theatres, and so I said, at considerable length, "So, gee, you're AGAINST two guys hooking up in a tent, but FOR a woman becoming the love object of a gorilla? God, are you guys SICK!"

A-TC

WESTERN NOVELS
I urge everyone to check out SMONK by Tom Franklin.

Mark Palko,

2 different mediums, Mark.

Narrative objectives change, and I actually don't CARE how much the book might happen to differ from the movie.

They took very good advantage of the visual language, in this case a minimalist approach, to explore its OWN meanings.

**In general, I have to say, as with war movies, I'm no fan of the Western genre. A movie has to have something unique goin' on - something that parts from the cliches. MOST of the cliches I happen to hate, in fact.

Rob,

Re: Shane - “I've no idea what you were expecting”

I was expecting it to be as wildly entertaining as it had been the first five times I saw it. These things happen. Some films age with us, like fine wine, others do not. I find Liberty Valance goes down better every time, but Shane - your lovely exegesis notwithstanding - has left me with a little less the last two times I saw it. It’s one of those movies I have no doubt I’ll go back to again someday... but not for a while.

---

Frank,

“Is Brokeback Mountain a cowboy film? “

I caught James Schamus, the producer, talking about it. He said he was dismayed by how many people kept referring to it as “the gay cowboy movie.”

“They’re not gay cowboys,” he said.

“They’re gay SHEPHERDS!”

And, frankly, I thought the movie was terrific.

-----
Andrew,

“Was it primarily a decision about running time and simplification of theme that led to the removal of Ritchie's character and other sub-plots?”

The book was, basically, a straight up action thriller. I enjoyed it, but had no interest in adapting that story. When I was brought in to pitch, it was a strange situation - it was made clear up front I wasn’t getting the job, but that I should make a good impression so when I came back to pitch something else, the studio folk would be familiar with me.

I took that as license to do whatever I wanted creatively with the story, since I wasn’t getting the gig. So I took the title, the premise and the first act of the book and spun it into a much more personal story, one I’d be interested in telling. And, shockingly, they responded.

In the book, Tom’s a straight up good guy, who fought the mob a long time ago, and is hiding from their reprisals. When everyone finds out his secret, they all shrug and accept him anyway, then he goes to New York, kicks everyone’s ass, and everything’s right with the world.

Me, I like Anthony Mann westerns, Bruce Springsteen’s Nebraska, and film noir. So I threw the book into a pot with those things, and came up with very different story, keeping bits and pieces of the book.

Honestly, I was ruthless with the book, violently disrespectful to the material, and just downright mean. These things happen. Happily, it worked out to everyone’s benefit, and, frankly, I still can’t believe they let me get away with it. The studio let me run with it, and never fucked with it a bit. That ending was the one I pitched them in the room. “Why not an ambiguous ending?” I though. “They’re gonna pass anyway. Might as well go down swinging.”

So to answer your questions - running time wasn’t an issue, I’m not sure there’s really a theme to the book to simplify in the first place (And you thought the movie’s theme was simple? Geez. I gotta work harder), and Richie’s right there at the end, brilliantly played by my pal, William Hurt. There were never any flashbacks in my script, and Joey was always, from the get-go, a really bad guy trying to turn good.

Different projects have different callings. I adapted a Dennis Lehane story a while back in which I was insanely faithful. And that Discarded thing (although, I have to admit, if I’d wanted to go full on History on that thing, the fact that Harlan was sitting across the kitchen table from me picking the flesh of studio execs out of his teeth might have disabused me of that notion...)

---
Mark,

“but Browne’s wonderful pre-hanging prayer may close with the coolest line of any Western.”

Amen.

Random Thoughts on Westerns

Brian

Welles did repeatedly view Stagecoach before making Kane, but Ford may have been an even bigger acknowledged influence on Bergman and Kurosawa (watch Seven Samurai – it’s pretty obvious).

Speaking of influences, the first time I saw Yojimbo, I assumed that Kurosawa had been heavily influenced by Leone’s films, then I checked the date on the movie and realized it was the other way around.

Just so we’re straight here, a Japanese film-maker who learned directing from watching John Ford Westerns made a film based on a gangster novel (Red Harvest) that provided the basis in both story and style for the first of the spaghetti Westerns. If you think deception produces tangled webs, try art.

Ford was also a hell of a guy. He had that rare kind of courage that could stand up to both enemy gunfire (a war he should have been too old to serve in) and the HUAC bastards in the Director’s Guild (“I don’t like you, Mr. DeMille.”)

And for Rob:

The biggest difference between Shane the book and Shane the movie is the role of the boy. There’s a fine tension in the novel between what the narrator saw as a child and what he now understands. Jack Schaefer did fine work.

And David:

The Cowboys doesn’t really face the moral questions of killer young’uns like Lord of the Flies, but Browne’s wonderful pre-hanging prayer may close with the coolest line of any Western.

Keep riding tall,
Mark

p.s. Shane fans should check out the sad and graceful Monte Walsh with Lee Marvin

p.p.s. Lee Marvin fans should check out The Great Scout. More a guilty pleasure than a good movie but Oliver Reed’s performance as the not-so-faithful Indian companion is, well, something you need to see.

p.p.p.s. If one the other hand, you want a more defensible comic Western, try Support Your Local Sheriff and its follow-up (which is not a sequel, by the way). Maybe Garner’s best film work.

p.p.p.p.s. Anyone else remember SCTV’s Western Redundancy Theatre?

History of Violence
Josh O, may I ask about the History of Violence script? I've had a copy of the graphic novel since '97, and was delighted to see the preview trailer -- and later the movie of course. Was it primarily a decision about running time and simplification of theme that led to the removal of Ritchie's character and other sub-plots? I wondered whether earlier drafts of the script included scenes like the boy scout robbery, and whether Tom/Joey's character was always intended to be with the mob.

It is a great script, I gotta say, and the movie deserved all acclaim received. A great job too on "The Discarded" teleplay (great material to work with, we know.) Okay, here endeth my gushing.

Hello from long ago
Hi Harlan. I'm not sure what led me to your website this evening, but here I am. So I'd like to say a quick hello after apprx. 22 years.

Hope you're doing well.

Richard
www.richardemmet.com

Message for Lee
Sorry to address this in a public forum, can't think of another solution:

Lee, I am trying to reply to your mail and it keeps bouncing back with the following message:

Mail rejected by Windows Live Hotmail for policy reasons. A block has been placed against your IP address because we have received complaints concerning mail coming from that IP address.

I am not computer-adept so I have no idea what that's about. If you have another email address besides hotmail, please send it along!

APPROPOS OF NOT MUCH - HELIX SF #6
The sixth issue of HELIX SF went live at midnight 10/1, with very strong - and disturbing - stories by Jennifer Pelland ("The Last Stand of the Elephant Man") and Mike Allen ("The Button Bin"), as well as equally strong work from Jayme Lynn Blaschke, Vylar Kaftan, Sarah K. Castle, Jay Lake, and Ann Leckie.

I will also mention, with absolutely no false modesty, the fine and challenging poetry of David Kopaska-Merkel & W. Gregory Stewart ("The Gates"), JoSelle Vanderhooft's "The Robot's Daughter", and Mikal Trimm's indescribable "The Envoy," as well as Danny Adams, Kendall Evans, and S. C. Virtes, the last an ode of sorts to the Ripley's Museum(s).

Add in my "Past Masters" column on Cordwainer Smith, John Barnes' new column, "The Well-Bitten Hand," and editorials by William Sanders and Lawrence Watt-Evans, and I can - and will! - say without fear of contradiction that this is the strongest issue of HELIX yet.

As is our custom, reading is free: http://www.helixsf.com. All we ask is that if you like what you read, punch the PayPal button and drop us a couple of bucks so we can pay our authors, who will get paid even if we staff don't.

If you like what you read, or if you don't, feel free to write us and say why. We sive to learve.

Genovese which now is fact
Joins Lizzy Borden and her axe...


HITLER PAINTED ROSES anyone?

re WRITE
c'mon, Ellison

write the damnthing again

then send me a pair of your poopy-soiled underdrawers in fair exchange for my presumptuousness.

har,
R

there's cowboys and there's . . . .


:: Is Brokeback Mountain a cowboy film?


Naw, atsa piece o'sheep.

(Actually, I liked it a lot. I'm very fond of the late John Wayne-Roscoe Lee Browne picture, "The Cowboys," too; sort of Little House on the Prairie meets Lord of the Flies.)

The following article about Kitty Genovese is from today's Seattle Post-Intelligencer:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1110AP_Kitty_Genovese.html

David

Stagecoach is a masterwork, yes, yes. I slept on it for years as well.

Kids think they know everything, until that scorpion gets into their sleeping bag and they understand what real danger is. Danger is living life being artless; better off letting that scorpion crawl up your ass and die.

-------------

Let's not forget Bend In The River, steller film with my boy James Stewart. The man basically owned Hollywood. He just rented little chunks of the fools gold to the rest of us, like it was crack.

----------

Is Brokeback Mountain a cowboy film?


---------------

Suzanne dePasse
The real correction that should be made is having me not open my mouth (via my fingers). The folks that have set me straight about Ms. dePasse are absolutely correct. I need to calibrate the settings on my television or something, though.

Acutely sorry.

for Rick O.
Hiya Mr. Ollerman! Don't be fooled by the dye-job, although she'd probably be amused that you were. But, if you don't wanna take *my* word for it, see below:
*****
Suzanne de Passe (born in 1948 in New York City, New York) is an American entertainment executive; the CEO of television production company de Passe Entertainment; and the first African-American woman to be nominated for an Academy Award for writing.
De Passe first became notable as an executive for Motown Records, a company which she joined in 1968 after being introduced to Motown chief Berry Gordy by Supremes member Cindy Birdsong. At Motown, de Passe helped to produce television specials such as TCB and G.I.T. on Broadway, both starring Diana Ross & the Supremes and The Temptations, and was responsible for signing, coaching, and developing Motown's most popular act of the 1970s, The Jackson 5.
In 1973, both she and Lonne Elder III became the first African-Americans to be nominated for an Academy Award for writing. She was nominated for co-writing the screenplay for the Berry Gordy-produced Lady Sings the Blues starring Diana Ross as singer Billie Holiday, while Elder was nominated for Sounder. De Passe co-wrote Lady Sings the Blues with Terence McCloy and Motown recording artist Chris Clark.
De Passe continued to work for Motown, mostly producing television specials such as Motown 25 for the company's Motown Productions film/TV division into the 1980s.
In 1989, Berry Gordy sold Motown Productions to de Passe, who renamed it de Passe Entertainment. The company has since produced such television shows and feature films as Class Act, Sister, Sister, Smart Guy, and It's Showtime at the Apollo. A number of de Passe Entertainment productions hearken back to de Passe's Motown days, including the miniseries The Jacksons: An American Dream (in which she is a character, played by Vanessa L. Williams) and The Temptations, and the Motown 45 special in 2004.
De Passe also was executive producer for the miniseries Lonesome Dove, Buffalo Girls, Streets of Laredo and Dead Man's Walk, along with the syndicated series Lonesome Dove: The Outlaw Years. All of these projects were based on the writings of Larry McMurtry.
She has won Emmy Awards for producing the Motown 25 and Motown Returns to the Apollo specials which won for Outstanding Variety, Music or Comedy Program. In addition, she received Emmy nominations for Lonesome Dove, Buffalo Girls, The Jacksons: An American Dream, The Temptations and the Farrah Fawcett crime miniseries Small Sacrifices. All these nominations were in the Outstanding Miniseries category. De Passe was inducted into the Black Filmmakers Hall of Fame in 1990.
De Passe is an honorary member of Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc.
*******

Screw It. . .
Funny enough, (or not very funny at all rather, but coincidental instead) the same thing happened to me when I returned from Cleveland. Twice I tried writing up a long, sentimental report on the experience, and twice it vanished into the Cyberspace either (see posts under "Cleveland" thread in other place). The recollection that I did end up posting was nowhere near as good or immediate as the first too, and now I won't get to hear the offical response of the guest of honour.
Interesting too how the longer and more important the document is, the greater it's chances of oblivion are.
I really, really hate these fucking machines.

-Steve E.

westerns
Les Savage, Jr. is another western author worth reading. I also recommend the Buchanan series published by Fawcett under the house name Jonas Ward. Many of them were written by William Ard, a highly underrated crime novelist, and I believe that one of the Buchanans was ghost written by Robert Silverberg. In addition, one of the novels, Buchanan Rides Alone, was filmed as one of the Budd Boetticher-Randolph Scott westerns.

Westerns
Let me offer the name James Warner Bellah. If you have ever watched the John Wayne/John Ford films, FORT APACHE, SHE WORE A YELLOW RIBBON or RIO GRANDE, then you have been exposed to the short stories of Mr. Bellah. Most of his stories are out of print, but you can find "The Valliant Virginian" in used bookstores here and there, and can witness his work as a screenwriter in both "Sgt. Rutledge" and "The Man Who Shot Liberty Vallance".

As for favorite western films, I would recommend Sam Fuller's RUN OF THE ARROW, QUIGLEY DOWN UNDER (If for no other reason then Alan Rickman and Laura San Giacomo) or WINCHESTER 73 or BEND IN THE RIVER with Jimmy Stewart.

Stuff
The only westerns I've read have been THe OX-BOW INCIDENT by Walter van Tilburg Clark, many by McMurtry, a couple by Richard Matheson, and SHANE. 'Tis not a genre I have followed, in print, in depth. Sorry for crossing media.

Harlan: the swallowing of long unsaved prose-pieces has occurred to me a few times, on the internet, but it has also happened to stuff I failed to save off-line; a glitch once cost me an entire novelette (that I painstakingly wrote from scratch, and got nominated for an award for). Empathy for the irritation factor.

Another western you should watch...
"The Gunfighter" with Gregory Peck and Millard Mitchell. Mitchell is best known for being in "Singin' in the Rain", but here he is a sheriff with great world-weary patter.

This doesn't have much shooting, it's more of a character study. John Ford's "Stagecoach" is a great one, but I appreciated it more when I viewed it in context. It established certain elements that are present in many westerns that followed. Orson Welles said that he watched it several times.

And since this is a board frequented by writers, "Stagecoach" was written by Ernest Haycox and Dudley Nichols, with assistance from Ben Hecht. "The Gunfighter" was written by Andre de Toth, William Bowers, William Sellers and also Nunnally Johnson.

Harlan : regarding your post of September 30, 19:34:34. um. Easy there dude/sir. That's our hero and gracious host you're badmouthing, please be nice to him. Surely whatever ill he's done has already been outweighed by his many other virtues.

Plus, and I don't mean to give advice when none's been asked for, but attacking Mr. Ellison's intellect is really not such a bright idea. He's sharp as a tack and occassionally prickly to boot. Stay on his good side and he is, if a gentile can be forgiven the use of the expression, a mensch of the highest caliber.

re: Cleveland report / life lessons
That's a real loss. Thanks for trying. Looking forward to the audience reports.

"Write the entry on whatever word processor exists on the computer"

Or write them in small chapters.

My own hard-earned lesson from the past weeks is to double check dates and times on tickets and before making reservations.

First, to Harlan:

Lemme reassure you that your informative response to my query about Western books was highly, HIGHLY appreciated. You didn't waste a single phalanx there.

I myself joined in the digression to western movies because I never READ a western in my life, 'less ya wanna count Andy Buckram and His Tin Men when I was 4 or 5, and it was the only direction I could go once someone brought up the topic.


Josh...

By th'dungarees of an ornery bullwhacker, ya just blew off one of the greatest western movies of all time.

With a curtsy...allow me - with LLLUVING condescension - to explain to ya what ya wuz missin':

(I'm re-posting my comments from the board - otherwise known as that contentious territory of Anal Canyon - because I haven't seen you over there in a while)

I would argue, Josh, that SHANE is a film of growing discovery. It's the kind film in which you find new things with every viewing; meanings you missed the first time round emerge, and the movie slowly pulls you into its world.

I've no idea what you were expecting, but the movie's power is not in the dialog; no, the meanings - the STORY itself - is found in the silence - the things the characters DON'T say. Shane himself is not a character, but a symbolic figure representing aspiration and longing for personal roles, that may or I may not be attainable. It's about human potential; but also about the conditions that necessitate a role other than the one you want. Therein lies the timelessness of the movie's theme, as so many of us know the desire or need for roles that so often we CAN'T attain. Sometimes, that's pretty tragic.

SHANE is about a man's search for himself, of his efforts to tap his latent potentialities, and of his struggle to establish mastery over the chaotic forces of instinct and the unconscious that threaten him with personal disintegration.

That's why it's called a "psychological" Western.

In simplest terms, what bonds the 4 leads can be found in the quiet glances shared between them. Joe sees Shane as his potiential replacement to care for his wife and raise his son should he fall in his plight; between Shane and Marion there is this de-sexualized attraction in every gesture and glance - a subtle, idealized interest, attraction and love. The kid, of course, represents the raw material of human potential before it finds a shape. And Shane sees the domestic life of the family as the idealized version of what he'd WISHED he could be.

To myself, the real character in the movie isn't the kid - whose pov mainly dominates the movie - but Joe. His stubborn drive to overcome the odds, his need for balanced judgment to weigh the crisis (hence, Shane's entrance), and his counterpoint in Shane's quiet inner spirit (even though Shane reaches for his gun at the slightest sound behind him, he is far more in control). It's interesting and ironic: Though Shane yearns to escape his life of violence, he is more at peace with himself than is Joe, who is determined to up the ante in order to ATTAIN peace; Shane would love to adopt this family as his own, but in the end he's willing to accept the role he's lived with all his life. And once that decision is left to him, he follows through with machine-like reflex.

Thus, Shane himself is a symbol. Joe, on the other hand, in my opinion, is the composite of individual elements represented by all those around him - including that which Shane desires to be if it were ever possible; that very thing that would have made Shane truly human, rather than just the object he remains. To me, Joe is the only true and whole character in the movie; and I think that was part of the movies blueprint.

I think the film is summed up in a line from Shane when he's talking to the kid early on: "I like a man who watches things go on around. It means he'll make his mark someday."

It's brilliant. Almost Taoist.

Whatever you were "expecting", Josh, it's my argument that you missed a LOT!!! I think you missed the hidden complexity.

Yet...to be FAIR, I didn't take to the movie all that much on the FIRST viewing either. It's with each repeated viewing that I fell in love with this flick, finding so many things to THINK about. How many Westerns have I seen that really made me "THINK about it"?

THAT'S why this is one of the greatest Western films ever.

Rick O.,

Re Suzanne de Passe: Looks can be deceiving.

D.

Reply to Harlan - Coda
Sorry for the double post - (I will do penance, Rick, I promise) - But it's been bothering me all day that I didn't mention it earlier: Being gently, courteously, chided by YOU, Harlan, means more to me than being praised by someone like, say, Belva Plain. (And I HAVE been praised by Belva Plain oddly enough; and yes, that might be a story for another time).

All the best to you,

Scott

My spurs are a-jingling
Sorry, HE, I've been tempted to get into western fiction at various points in my book collecting, but if I liked them as much as I do my cowboy movies, I fear I'd be in big trouble and I just don't want to open that Pandora's box.

On your recommendation, I did read a Steve Frazee western once. Must've been the wrong one. Twas okay, but I was not bowled over. W.R. Burnett wrote a couple of nice ones...one of which I've been flirting making into a movie with the company which owns it. Unfortunately, though every actor, director, and writer I know in Hollywood wants to make a western...none of the studio suits do.

I've not gone to see the latest incarnation of 3:10 To Yuma because I so loved the old one with Glenn Ford and the always durable and terrific Van Heflin who could make a lot of stars look good. It also had a great Frankie Lane theme song that I bet the new can't top.

Speaking of Heflin, I've got to disagree with you, Josh, re: SHANE. A lovely, meticulous movie. And one where Alan Ladd's blandness was used to good effect because he came off as a mysterious cypher. Oddly enough there is another Ladd western I'm right fond of...WHISPERING SMITH, if for nothing else the venerable Donald Crisp playing a bad guy and veteran Frank Faylen playing his henchman, the creepy Whitey Dusang.

Prowling around webderland
Yo, Ricardo, me man! Just shoot me a quick e-mail at the above address and I'll send you my work phone number. Did you get my last message with the info on the new exhibits in town? If not, I am posting it at the end of this message (as a public service announcement to all webderlanders as well).

On, another matter: season finale of Dr. Who this next Friday. Everybody should hop back on to the Forum and let 'er rip on the thread I created many eons ago once you watch it.

Which reminds me...I should start a thread on Torchwood. I like the series so far, although how do these people get any work done with the amount of hostility and testosterone going on in there is beyond me.

Okay, here's them events on the land of King Richard the Second:
1. The National Museum of Mexican Art's (formerly the Mexican Fine Artes Center Museum), annual Day of the Dead exhibit kickes off lasy Friday and will be running until December.

2. And the Museum of Contemporary Art just opened an exhibit called "Sympathy for the Devil: Art and Rock and Roll since 1967" devoted to the links between the arts and rock and featuring the works of Andy Warhol and others. The best part is that to commemorate their 40th anniversary, admission to the MCA will be free for the next 40 days.

Westerns (books, not films)
I admit to having a soft spot for Glendon Swarthout's THE SHOOTIST, which I've read several times and much prefer to the film. For sheer twistedness, an open-minded reader of Western-style fiction may want to sample the anthology RAZORED SADDLES, edited by Joe R. Lansdale and Patrick LoBrutto. Scott Culp's short story "Thirteen Days of Glory", contained therein, might well have served to earn him a fatwa from the residents of the Lone Star State if it had gotten more attention.

Mr. Olson -- I concur. THE SEARCHERS. Goddamn, what a film. That, and HIGH PLAINS DRIFTER, of course.

True Story

Harlan: In college--the night before it was due, mind you-- I lost a thirty page, well-researched analysis on "Elves in Germanic Folklore." Exhausted and almost in tears, I collasped on the mattress that rested on the floor of my apartment. The next morning, my paper was still gone, but at least I now had one hundred pairs of shoes.

Steve Dooner

shit. i am about as angry as i can get.

fucking ineptitude.

you imbecile, ellison. you dumb lackwit putz bastard.

shit shit shit

Alejandro Riera
I am in Chicago for a couple days and was going to try to squeeze in some hangout time with Alejandro. However, I left my laptop with his info in Atlanta. If someone has current contact info (I know he has a new email address) please shoot me a line. Thanks! - Rick (rick@rickwyatt.com).

Unless I'm completely confused, the Suzanne dePasse that is interviewed on my copy of the "Lonesome Dove" is actually a blonde white woman, not a feisty black one. That just seemed like a correction I needed to point out...

Harlan, a Suggestion.

Harlan,

If you want to post something long on the board again and are worried about the computer timing out while you compose, I have a suggestion.

Write the entry on whatever word processor exists on the computer (even if it's only NotePad, it will work). Then, when it's finished, cut and paste it into your post here. You should be able post without any time out problems.

Good to see you last week.

Bob

I weep.

Screw it.

I just spent an hour and twenty minutes writing

LOCAL BOY MAKES GOOD, Part 2.

This fucking devil's handmaiden timed out on me, as it has done so many times in the past, and kicked me off.

The entire 1500 word essay is lost.

I will not try again.

THAT is why I use a typewriter.

Do not badger me about this. It's finished. C'est-ca.

Angrily, Harlan

JOSH---NOT JACK
I---I meant my twin brother---meant Josh, not Jack.

We will both stay off board for 1 month in penance.

Jack, even better than Diane Lane nudity (and I'm straight) would be John Wayne or Jimmy Stewart cutting the cards with her for a "poke"!

Just got off the phone with our esteemed host, in reference to this:

"Yes, we all go to see 3:10 TO YUMA, but how many of you have read Louis's novel whence it came?"

His response: "Oh, shit. Shoot me now." It was, of course, DUTCH'S novel whence it came.

I'm also told that Local Boy Makes Good part deux is on its way....

Reply to Harlan
Harlan; the Dream Corridor order was placed by a well-meaning friend for my birthday. She didn't know I was going to order it from HERC (which I've just rejoined). And of COURSE I'd ask for it at the local Comic store anyway, to make sure they keep it in stock!
Sorry for the confusion. I don't mean to bring you agita (or angina pains) on this lovely Sunday. And I'm still placing an order through HERC.

Scott

WESTERNS


I was asked about western BOOKS, not movies. Yes, friends, I love THE OX-BOW INCIDENT (which was a great novel by Walter Van Tilburg Clark before it was a great movie) and STAGECOACH (first, John Wayne/Claire Trevor version, not the sad sorry Bing Crosby/Ann-Margret remake)(which was a fine short story before it was a classic film)(and, yes, I know who wrote the short story and its title, but this is wandering too far afield)(which I now know is called "thread-drift" and it's insidious), but I was asked about which WESTERN BOOK AUTHORS I could recommend, not asked to enter into one of your wistful clouds of adoration of this or that MOVIE!

So I recommended Richard Wheeler and Steve Frazee and Elmer Kelton and A.B. Guthrie and Dorothy Johnson and Lee Hoffman and forgot to mention the swell series of FARGO paperbacks mostly written under pseudonym by the late Lou Cameron, but didn't get into the "movie-thing" because that...THAT...is quite another kettle of karp. Yes, we all go to see 3:10 TO YUMA, but how many of you have read Louis's novel whence it came?

Books, folks. I was ast'about BOOKS, not ambling to a movie.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

SCOTT McKINLEY:

Some of you confuse the hell out of me. With all the access that worldwide internet provides you, simple garden-variety ingenuity seems to have been leached out of you.

Why bust your hump and pay a premium for DREAM CORRIDOR when we sell it ourselves, signed, right here. Or, if ou want back issues, et al, DARK HORSE COMICS--the publisher of DREAM CORRIDOR--has it perpetually in stock.

Webderland maintains a Books for Sale thread of many of my out of print titles, and mere a word spoken here can direct you directly to the direct directedness of the publishers of my IN PRINT TITLES (which HERC and Webderlanders get at some varied version of a discount) in mint condition, direct to your ingenuityless little mucky paws.

Sometimes, a few folks just make me scrunch up my phizz in utmostest confusion.

Kindly meant, Yr. Pal, Harlan

Rob,

I can’t go with ya on Shane - I find it doesn’t hold up the way I wish it would, but I finally saw Last Train To Gun Hill for the first time a couple months ago. Man, that was some sweet stuff.

The Hired Hand always knocks me out. Shame it got lost in the shadow of Easy Rider, but it’s the real deal, and one of Warren Oates’ finest performances, which is saying something.


John,

“They suffer a terrible fate.”

Heh. I think this is my favorite McMurtry moment - we’re at this press conference thing, people throwing questions to everyone, and this very, um... gay reporter (from the Advocate, I think, but I could be wrong), asks McMurtry (and this is on the awards trail, where he and Diana had been nominated for Brokeback), “Will you ever write something about two gay men that has a happy ending?”

Larry: “No.”

“read somewhere that the story was originally written as a script, before it became a book.”

Apparently, McMurtry came up with it while working on Last Picture Show. The idea was to write it as a vehicle for Bogdonavich to direct, with - are you ready? - John Wayne and Jimmy Stewart to star. Coulda been fantastic. That said, I can’t imagine anything improving on the produced version. Maybe some Diane Lane nudity....

Pogue,

Pogue! Hey, man!

“The Budd Boetticher/Randolph Scott westerns. Particularly RIDE LONESOME, THE TALL "T", COMANCHE STATION, and SEVEN MEN FROM NOW.”

God, yes. All great. You an Anthony Mann fan, too? Winchester ‘73’s a particular fave of mine.

Met a beautiful, crazy girl a while back who was an enormous Boetticher fan. I think about her from time to time....

Yee-hah!
Westerns:

The Budd Boetticher/Randolph Scott westerns. Particularly RIDE LONESOME, THE TALL "T", COMANCHE STATION, and SEVEN MEN FROM NOW.

And let's not forget that great noir western with Joel MacCrea, RAMROD...nor MacCrea and Scott in Peckinpah's RIDE THE HIGH COUNTRY.

And then there's the ultimate -- Mr. Ford's THE SEARCHERS.

As I recall, it was Suzanne DePasse (sp?), the feisty young black woman who worked for years as Berry Gordy's chief creative executive at Motown and later moved up into television production, who mustered enough clout to finally get *Lonesome Dove* made for the little screen. And I believe it was her first television miniseries too.

I was never a fan of Westerns until my father introduced me to Louie L'Amour (I will admit, one of the startling few positive aspects of our relationship). In the years since then I've turned the pages of and munched popcorn during a grab bag of Western fare.

One movie I could never bring myself to watch was STAGECOACH. I mean, seriously, it was such an OLD movie. Why would anyone want to watch such an OLD movie? OLDEr than most. And cliche! How much more cliche could you get than a handful of people in a stagecoach?

Then I caught it one afternoon a few years back while visiting my mother. I came through the door as the opening credits rolled and I said barely a monosyllabic word even during the commercials until she changed the channel as the last of the ending credits went dark.

Wow...

That's what I get for thinking the original lacked the body of even its dimmest reflection. Here's genre blindness for you, to think that Westerns couldn't live up to the same quality of work of some of the best science fiction. Prove me wrong and pass the popcorn...

And a few more westerns
Hombre, The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance, Rio Bravo, Conagher, Hondo, the original 3:10 to Yuma, and another Glenn Ford western called The Fastest Gun Alive aren't too shabby either.

Bests to all,

--tr

To Just John
Supposedly, LONESOME DOVE was originally conceived as a movie treatment for John Wayne, Henry Fonda and Jimmy Stewart. Kicked around a while, didn't it?

Count me among the folks who never liked westerns until I hit a good one, but now I strongly recommend THE GOOD THE BAD AND THE UGLY, THERE WAS A CROOKED MAN, THE OX-BOW INCIDENT (especially), MY NAME IS NOBODY, UNFORGIVEN, WARLOCK, BIG HAND FOR THE LITTLE LADY, ONCE UPON A TIME IN THE WEST, MCCABE AND MRS MILLER, OPEN RANGE, and HIGH NOON among my favorites.

Harlan... I'm fine!
Too late to call and *just* got your message. Apologies for worrying you! Was supposed to call Wed. but got carried off in holiday preparations while stuck at home with two-year-old... Then sundown locked me up for 72 hours (two days Sukkos, then straight into Shabbas). Everyone is fine. Will call you Sunday.

To Josh Olson: follow-up on LONESOME DOVE
I learned a couple of valuable literary lesson from LONESOME DOVE. Before I read it, I had been indifferent to Westerns for the most part, but because the banner over the title said “Pulitzer Prize”, I thought “Well, I’ll give it a few pages. But Westerns aren’t really my thing, so I probably won’t end up finishing the darn thing. Besides, it’s so big it could be a doorstop.”

So I started it early one afternoon, expecting nothing special, and by 6 o’clock the next morning, as I turned the last page with red, bleary-eyes, I was wishing it would never end. The writing was so wonderful, the characters so fully fleshed out, that it took my breath away.

The first lesson was to never again assume any particular genre of literature couldn’t soar. I already knew that lesson, but only intellectually. Now it was visceral knowledge of the sort that only comes with experience. I also learned something about just what kind of power a great author wields with respect to characterization. In the book, there were a group of characters in whom I had become emotionally invested. They suffer a terrible fate. At first I was so mad about losing these people that I considered (for about .4 seconds) not finishing the book. I had never become angry at an author before because of what they did to characters in a book of fiction. Gradually, though, I came to admire McMurtry for his skill and talent and audacity in creating living breathing characters, investing them with a rich stew of emotions and quirks, making them so real that I was sucked completely in, and then rutlessly killing them off in an instant. The book was so rich, though, that while they were missed, the story sailed along magnificently without them anyway. Kind of like life. Thus the second bit of intellectual knowledge became visceral: it’s all about the characters.

When the mini-series came out, I was excited, but expected that the director would indulge in the usual creative license, and change things around. I was just looking forward to spending time with some old friends again. I couldn’t have been more wrong. It is quite possibly the finest piece of television I have ever seen. It is a perfect example of what TV could and should be. Later on, I read somewhere that the story was originally written as a script, before it became a book. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but it might explain why it translated so well, almost word-for-word, to the little screen. And if Duvall lost the Emmy that year, then he was robbed.

Falk/Columbo: I have nearly all the originals taped. They're much different from the 80's revival on ABC. I, myself, while admitting I'd only caught a handful of sporadic episodes, could never handle the new "version". Less subtle, and too self-conscious - as suggested by such lame-assed Francis the Mule-type titles like "Columbo Goes to College" - I couldn't handle it. I never bothered with the rest. They're vastly inferior to the original shows.

Western ramblins:

**Some of the LESSER known filmed Westerns I like a lot (and, yes, I'll leave out Jesse James Meets Frankenstein's Daughter):

The Scalphunters with Burt Lancaster
Last Train to Gun Hill w/Kirk Douglas
Duel At Diablo


But of the famous, I gotta go with the man there in the straw hat: SHANE is an awesome piece - deceptively simple, dense in symbolism and theme.

Outlaw Josey Wales is another one of my favorites, right up there with McCabe and Mrs. Miller. Y'know, Phil Kaufman was originally supposed to direct the former. I don't recall story behind it, but as we all know Eastwood took the job himself.

One feature of old westerns I was looking at closely not so long ago, was the way Indians were repeatedly attacking with no apparent reason whatsoever. Just seemed to be their species, to attack mindlessly, even running head on into gun blast - makin' 'em right ez critters ta scratch.

Not sure who had to put up with the worst stereotype in them days (mainly 30's & 40's, with gradual maturing beginning in the 50's): blacks or american indians. I mean, which would YOU want to be represented by? A happy, dumb, hopelessly uneducated farm hand (or train porter) - or a mindless unreasoning savage?

Finally, westerns I'd like to revisit soon: Little Big Man, Oxbow Incident, One-Eyed Jacks, Dances with Wolves, Unforgiven.

I'm leaving out the OBVIOUS ones: The Spagetts, Nevada Smith, Mag Seven, etc - since they remain the greatest.

On wearing the 'mulke and eating those mummified wafers
I've been to many weddings and funerals, both reformed (or conservative) and Orthodox and have never been asked to wear a tallis. I have my own 'mulke. I've even sat shiva with friends, and always wore the yarmulke to show the proper respect, but never a tallis.

I think that's all anyone asks, is to show the proper respect at a service.

And I believe Martin Luther once said that if he had any feelings of doubt at a service, he would not take communion, as he felt that would be hypocritical. So, good on Brian on that account.

Chuck

Loose Threads
Peter Falk - Hey; Peter Falk turned 80 just 2 weeks ago! There's a milestone for you - Harlan's still just a kid on the block. I do hope there'll be more Columbo episodes at some point. It's one of the few TV series I've bought the full run of (well; what's been released to date at any rate). They've released the series through 1989, and I'm dying for the 1990 season, since it will include the episode that starred and was directed by Patrick McGoohan (who also turns 80 next March come to think of it) entitled Agenda for Murder. Screenplay by one Jeffrey Blomm. One of the very best. Trust me.
Are there any recordings of Harlan's voice impression of Peter aside from the reference to it in On the Road with Ellison Vol. 3.? And has Harlan ever worked with him? (and apologies if that's been asked and answered somewhere in the Archives).

Westerns - I'm surprised no one's yet mentioned The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford by Ron Hansen, especially now that it's a Brad Pitt movie. The book was pretty good, but I haven't seen the film yet.

Harlan Ellison's Dream Corridor - My copy has finally arrived from from a shop called Things from Another World in Milwaukee, Oregon! My local comic store was out, and to the clerk's credit he knew what it was. "Why don't you have any in stock?" I asked. "We didn't order enough", he replied. Fair enough. So that's what I'll be reading tomorrow.

Oh, and just one more thing, Sir...
QI - UK Quiz Show hosted by Stephen Fry. It's brilliant, hilarious, Quite Interesting actually. Questions are awarded points based on how interesting the answer to a question is. Season Five just started, and as I've been watching I keep thinking how perfect Harlan would be as a guest panelist. (Rich Hall has been the token American to date, and he's fine but doesn't speak up enough).

Scott McKinley

LEIGH BLACKMORE in WOLLONGONG:

Are you out there reading this?

Yr. grateful Pal, Harlan

Imperialistic Chest Thunping Coming Soon
But Not From One Of The Usual Suspects:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/pop_print.shtml?content_type=article&content_type_id=384514

"I personally believe that China will be back on the Moon before we are. I think when that happens, Americans will not like it, but they will just have to not like it."

NASA Administrator Michael Griffin, September 17, 2007

Only forty-six years from "We choose to go to the moon, not because it is easy but because it is hard." to "Americans will not like it, but they will just have to not like it."

I know, I know. Most of you just don't give a rats ass.

That's the problem, and I will NOT argue the point. None so blind, und so weiter.

But I care, and I will not ignore the ugly fact of our once fondest dream being swept into the gutter of history.

It's an ignoble deed, and unworthy of us.

KOS

Lonesome Dove
RE: Lonesome Dove: McMurtry said in an updated edition to the novel that he intended it to be about unsavory (or words to that effect) characters in the old west and the public embraced it like it was the Gone with the Wind of westerns.

Also, Robert Duvall as Gus gave one of the greatest performances ever put on film. And he lost the Emmy!

Little Blue Books & Big Blue Books
I tried to include the following link by clicking and dragging and by coaxing and crook. But...as much as I like access to information and computer stuff, I must admit to having eleven thumbs when operating these selectrified boxes.

So, go to www.atheists.org and click on shopping and then click on
E. Haldeman-Julius.

Richard Halasz

Just John

"While folks are on the subject of westerns and faithful adaptations: LONESOME DOVE is one of the greatest westerns ever written (Pulitzer Prize winner too), and the mini-series adaptation is virtually word-for-word and scene-for-scene with the book, and flawless to boot."

Ah, Lonesome Dove.

Goddam, but that is one good piece of TV. In spite of an unfortunate incident with Mr. McMurtry (sumbitch wupped my ass at an industry achievement dinner thing or three a while back), I still love me some Lonesome Dove. It's one of those rare pieces of visual entertainment that even though I own it, when it comes on TV, I ALWAYS get sucked into it.

I had the distinct pleasure of working with Simon Wincer, the director, a while back. We were doing a western with Willie Nelson that, sadly, never got made, but the experience of working with Simon was one of those very rare and very fine ones. And of course I peppered him with questions about LD. He was a gigantic fan of the book and of McMurtry's, and I got the sense that he was deeply, deeply proud of that one. Who wouldn't be?

Cowboys and stories
All this talk of Zane Grey and Louis L'Amour reminded me of my Mom's discussion of why SHE didn't read Grey. Apparently, she was reading along and came to a passage that described "foam-flecked flanks" on the cattle.

If you're writing cowboy stories, you should at least know something about the animals involved. Cattle don't sweat up a storm the way horses do, and Mom knew that even if Grey didn't.

Threw her right out of the story, and she never read another of his.

I know how she felt. On a long road trip with my then-significant other, the thriller book-on-tape she insisted on listening to (before falling asleep and leaving me to surreptitiously switch on the radio) had the hero switching off the safety on his Glock pistol.

I own a Glock.

I don't even look at that author's books, won't watch movies based on his stories, and will steer people away from him if asked.

Fucking creative typists.

Re: More Religion and Tube Steaks
"So the Buddhist goes up to the hot dog vendor and says to him, 'Make me one with everything!'"

The vendor pocketed the money, and handed the Buddhist monk his hot dog. The monk, after waiting for a moment, asked for his change. The vendor looked at him and said, “Change comes from within.” With a wistful smile, the monk walked away.

Westerns and faithful adaptations
While folks are on the subject of westerns and faithful adaptations: LONESOME DOVE is one of the greatest westerns ever written (Pulitzer Prize winner too), and the mini-series adaptation is virtually word-for-word and scene-for-scene with the book, and flawless to boot.

Apologies to Alan...er...ALEX!!! And a word to Harlan
I can't believe I did that. Sorry, Alex. All I can plead is fatigue at the end of a long day....

Harlan: I don't know about the totality of your diet, but I do know that most dietary experts say that hot sauce is good for circulation and the heart. And I once read a study done by Harvard Med School concluding that happiness, lack of negative stress and satisfaction in life added more to health and longevity than giving up smoking, losing weight and exercising combined. My father was a writer and a world class eccentric who did not smoke or drink but otherwise did everything against doctor's advice. He enjoyed life tremendously, cheerfully injured his career standing up to HUAC and ate ice cream every day of his life. All the men in his family died of heart failure in their forties. He died of the same thing--in his eighties. Spirit and attitude count. A lot.

Oh, Markie..
Goldberg

If it's between the feast that Harlan described, and a few cheesesteaks, I'll take the Feast anytime.

I mean Harlan has a rather discrminating pallet, or so I've been told. You can get cheesestake anywere. Good BBQ is most difficult to find. There's only one place in all of SF that does the way I like, and it's a total pain in the butt to get to.

I make this comment because you mentioned the brow beating you got to me on Facebook. I agree with Harlan 110%. Not because he shows up here from time to time, but because you should always respect the opinion of your elders despite what you may thing.

L

Come back
You left off Shane? Not only a wonderful book but perhaps the most faithful movie adaptation I've seen. (Maltese Falcon is also a contender)

More Religion and Tube Steaks
So the Buddhist goes up to the hot dog vendor and says to him, “Make me one with everything!”

Thanks, you’ve been a great audience, and remember that the 10:30 show has all new material! G’Night!

Thank you. Louis L'Amour's will most likely be the books I'll check out. I'm looking at the genre right now because of some ideas I'm playing with.

You know how a simple synopsis can affect your judgment. Zane Gray - from online book summaries - sounded compelling. Theme-wise, at least. Riders of the Purple Sage is an example.

In particular, the concept of a character confronting his past, or being destroyed by it because of his inability to change, is relevant for me.

But I'll check out Louie.

I read your essay about L'Amour, incidentally. Enjoyed the hell out of it. Whenever I start perusing your pieces, I feel like getting popcorn. They never fail to entertain and engross me. And I generally get something new from it, like The Little Blue Books, which I'd never heard of. I'll find out more about that.

Danks!

There, not their.

Ok, the democrats won't get us out of Iraq until 2013. Fuck them and their lame party, I will vote for a Green or some such tinder box 3rd party. I've had it with the fake concern about our embassy; hell, we shouldn't even have that bloated thing in the middle of a civil war. Get us out now or you democrats can can your sentiment and kiss my ass.

Hillary is dead to me.

------------

You have to admire that lone Jewish parliamentarian in Iran, a real hero. Those monks in Burma are great too. Guts here are coated in hollywood treacle, their the real shit stews.

The Hot Dog Story
So this hot dog vendor, Benny, in New York City is working his usual spot near Central Park, but this particular day there is not a soul to be seen. No business. He sees a cop, and says "Hey, where are all of the people?"

The cop shakes his head, and says "Don't you read the papers, Benny? The Pope is visiting, and everybody's at the cathedral to see him."

So Benny get's a bright idea, and pushes his cart over to the catthedral. Sure enough, there's a crowd of ten-thousand at least standing before the cathedral waiting for the pope, and they are famished. Pretty soon Benny is slapping dogs into buns like a madman. Suddenly the crowd falls silent. Men and women part like the Red Sea before Moses. They're falling on their knees, silent and reverent.

The Pope walks through the crowd, and steps right up to Benny's hot dog cart. The Pope stares at Benny for a moment, mumbles something to Benny and makes the sign of the cross over Benny and the cart, then turns and with a whirl of his robes disappears into the cathedral.

The crowd is awestruck at this honor to Benny. Benny looks stunned, and begins to push his cart away, shaking his head. Someone in the crowd says to him "Benny, Benny, the Pope just blessed you and your cart, why are you leaving?"

Benny shakes his head, and says, "Bless me? Nah, he pointed UP at me, and said "I want you", then he pointed DOWN at the cart and said "and this cart" and then he swept his hand down the street and said "The fuck out of here by the time I get back in that cathedral"

It was either that or the one about the two nuns and the hot dog cart.

KOS

Churchiness
A note about different communion practices:

In most churches that ask non-adherents to refrain from taking communion, they ask people to abstain because to partake is a symbol that the participant holds to all the same beliefs as the church they are at. So in a catholic church that would mean you believe in the immaculate conception and the authority of the pope or in a protestant church with infant baptism and original sin or a baptist church that you can't drink or dance.

Other churches take a looser view of communion and say that everyone who believes that Jesus was the messiah can participate.

Like Peg said, most churches will announce (or print) their beliefs concerning non-member participation.

Scott,

Technically one is supposed to eat the wafer right at the time you get it. If the lady was holding it, then started walking down the aisle the priest probably figured she must not be a Catholic, because its not usual to save it as a snack for later.

That being said however, it is really really tacky and rude to take it back.

Also personally think its cheesy to deny hosts to non-catholics.

One's religion should be treated as one's sex life. You don't talk about it unless you are asked, and then you only respond if you'd want to do it with that person.

A-TC and Alex Jay, no Zach would not wear the tallis, as the nly ones who are supposed to wear the prayer shawl are those who have been bar/bat mitzvahed. However, I have a vague recollection of wearing one before I had my bar mitzvah but after I had first tied on t'fillin, but the memory is hazy.

David, absolutely brilliant joke, thank you for sharing that and the commentary

Mark

the pope & the rabbi
Pretty flawless reasoning David...and still a great joke despite the points you raise. But riddle me this... could the joke perhaps have come from a Western convert Buddhist? The whole tradition of "silent debates" or silent discourse around opposing religious or complex philosophical points has long been a big deal in Buddhist circles. There are many anecdotal examples of such in the literature of almost every school: Zen, Ch'an, Theravedan, Tibetan Vajrayana etc. And also in the recorded instances of Hindu/Buddhist debates; Muslim/Buddhist debates; and Sikh/Buddhist or Taoist/Buddhist debates.

So a Western-convert Buddhist, whether they began life as a practicing Jew, Catholic, or Protestant, might be both amused and impressed that Shakyamuni once taught his most profound insight by simply lifting a flower towards his congregation. And inspired by the humorous potential for mutual misinterpretation therein, they might have constructed a joke like "the pope and the rabbi." (Moreover, a former American Jew now happily installed in the lotus might find the joke funnier when told with a "Brooklyn jewish" accent....)

SHAGIN: I am glad to provide you with your entree to the wonderful world of ha-nakkake.
(Boy, I hope no one here speaks Japanese!)

ADAM-T: WOULD Zack be asked to wear the tallis? I don't know that a non-Jew would--after all, the blessing said upon wearing the tallis is "Baruch atah adonai eloheinu melech ha'olam asher kidishanu b'mitzvotav v'tzivanu l'hitatef batzitzit": "Blessed art thou, Lord, our God, sovereign of the universe, Who has sanctified us with His commandments and commanded us to wrap ourselves in the tzitzit (fringes}."
Would a non-Jew even be required to don the shawl? The yarmulke (kipah, beanie, whatever), definitely--but I dunno about the tallis ...

LAURIE: ... "Alan"?

HARLAN: I am agog; I am a-glee; I am grinningly a-twitter; praise from the master.

A Catholic, a Jew, and a Muslim walk into a bar...

Considering the current discussion of faith and humor, today's Non Sequitur comic (very work appropriate) is a perfect addition:

http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur/

Jews and Catholics

What with all the discussion of Judaism and Catholicism, this looks like a suitable time and place to trot out the following joke, which works best if you know a lot about both systems of faith:

THE POPE AND THE RABBI

Several centuries ago, the Pope decreed that all the Jews had to convert or leave Italy. There was a huge outcry from the Jewish community, so the Pope offered a deal. He would have a theological debate with a leader of the Jewish community. If the Jews won, they could stay in Italy. If the Pope won, the Jews would have to either leave or convert.

The Jewish people met and picked an aged but wise Rabbi, Rabbi Moishe, to represent them in the debate. However, as Rabbi Moishe spoke no Italian and the Pope spoke no Yiddish, it was agreed that it would be a "silent" debate.

On the chosen day, the Pope and Rabbi Moishe sat opposite each other for a full minute before the Pope raised his hand and showed three fingers. Rabbi Moishe looked back and raised one finger. Next, the Pope waved his finger around his head. Rabbi Moishe pointed to the ground where he sat. The Pope then brought out a communion wafer and a chalice of wine. Rabbi Moishe pulled out an apple. With that, the Pope stood up and declared that he was beaten, that Rabbi Moishe was too clever, and that the Jews could stay in Italy .

Later, the Cardinals met with the Pope, asking what had happened. The Pope said, "First, I held up three fingers to represent the Trinity. He responded by holding up one finger to remind me that there is still only one God common to both our beliefs. Then, I waved my finger around my head to show him that God was all around us. He responded by pointing to the ground to show that God was also right here with us. I pulled out the wine and wafer to show that God absolves us of all our sins. He pulled out an apple to remind me of the original sin. He had me beaten at my every move, and I could not continue."

Meanwhile the Jewish community gathered around Rabbi Moishe. "How did you win the debate?" they asked. "I haven't a clue," said the Rabbi. "First he said to me that we had three days to get out of Italy, so I gave him the finger! Then he tells me that the whole country would be cleared of Jews, and I said to him, 'We're staying right here.'"

"And then what?" asked a woman. "Who knows?" said the Rabbi. "He took
out his lunch, so I took out mine!"



Of course, nobody's cornered the market on overintellectualizing faith. The Jewish lawyer in my book discussion group who passed this joke along to the rest of us be email commented:

I've heard this one before, but it's a real good joke. I don't
know who gets credit for it but my guess that it originated with a
lapsed Catholic. Here's why I think that.
Jews in the Diaspora consisted of three main ethnic groups: the
Ashkenazy from Eastern Europe who spoke Yiddish, an amalgamation derived
from German and whatever region the speaker happened to be from; the
Western European, mainly German, Jews, who spoke the languages of the
countries in which they lived; and the Sephardic Jews from the
Mediterranean who spoke Ladino. The American stereotype of the Jew is
the Eastern European Jew, because they were the great majority of Jews
who immigrated.
Now, the rabbi in the joke is from Italy, which means he would
be Sephardic. However, his name is spelled "Moishe," which is the
Askenazy form of Moses; the Sephardic spelling is "Moises" or "Mosheh".
Second, the rabbi's voice is distinctly Askenazy in tone and manner. He
might as well as have been speaking to an audience in the Borscht Belt.
Now, only an ignorant Gentile would make such mistakes. And
which kind of Gentile is most likely to make a mistake while putting the
Pope in a bad light? Why, a lapsed Catholic, of course.

Wacky waferness
At a Christmas midnight mass I attended a few years back with my wife (non-practicing Catholic) and her Mother (VERY Catholic), as her Mother was up taking communion, we witnessed the following scene: A middle-aged woman had just received her wafer from one of the priests (there were two working the room). As she started walking back down the aisle the other priest chased her down, stopped her, and took back the wafer. To this day my wife and I don't know why this happened, but it sure made the night a little bit more interesting.

Scott

It's wafer thin....
Brian,

Short answer - most christian churches (Catholic or other denomination) ask non-believers to abstain from communion. Many I have attended publically announce that at the appropriate point in service. If you don't believe, it's meaningless; and, as you note, it might be disrespectful.

If your family knows you are atheist, then they should realize why you abstain. I would hope they would not be offended by your own personal choice (which is exactly what faith should be - personal - but that's a whole 'nuther topic).

Your story reminds me of the time we met with a priest at the local catholic church about the funeral arrangements for my mother. He asked my father, sister, and I each about our faith. Of the 3 of us, I am the only practicing christian, although I am non-denominational. They both basically said they were "lapsed" catholics, neither has practiced the faith in years or attended services. My father still sends tithes on a routine basis.

At this point the priest basically ignored me, and if I recall correctly, stated he did not want me to take communion at the service. Aside from the specific arrangements, he spent the remaining time encouraging my father and sister to treat the occasion as an opportunity to renew their beliefs.

I'm sure there is some appropriate cliche to quote about people not recognizing their true allies... *laf* It's exactly the kind of divisiveness Christ warned to avoid. Talk about missing the point!

Cheers
Peg

psst - Keith! A belated Happy Birthday. Hope things are cheering up for you and get better still.

Church Etiquette for A-TC and others
The other day, a housemate had a guest over for breakfast. The housemate is Catholic, and the guest and I are formerly Catholic but atheist now. We talked a bit about this, and the issue of Behavior at the Rituals came up.

Most of the time, we go along to some extent: if we go into a synagogue and we're expected to wear a yarmulke, we do it. We sit and stand and kneel at the right points if we're at a Roman Catholic service. (Some things are almost habit, even now: if I enter a church, the impulse to kneel and cross myself before the alter is still there.)

But anyway, I mentioned something that crossed my mind at my cousin's funeral, namely: should I take communion? It's one thing to cross myself or murmur "Amen." Taking communion, however, is a bit more public, requires greater participation... and it occurred to me that taking Communion without sharing the faith would be something like an insult to the faith. I could go up and eat the wafer without any problems, sure... but a serious Catholic wouldn't treat it as a trivial ritual at all.

On the other hand, _not_ taking communion could bug my family, too. Either way, someone could take offense. In the end, I didn't, and that's about it.

About twelve years ago, the humanist organization CODESH put out a small book about how atheists should handle life's little problems, like having people say "God Bless You." It seemed funny to me that a freethinker should need an instruction manual for such things, and I wrote a piece about it for _In These Times_. The humor's kind of labored, but it's at http://www.briansiano.com/SecHumITT.htm if you're interested.

ASSORTED QUICK REPLIES

ALEX JAY: omigoodness...that was buhrILLyunt! No hot chocolate in my mitt, but HAD it been, we're talkin' "outta the nose," my friend.

ROB: never could much stand Zane Grey, but if you want to read GREAT westerns--apart from Guthrie's THE WAY WEST and THE BIG SKY--go for Dorothy Johnson, Loren Estelman, Richard Wheeler, Elmer Kelton, Lee Hoffman's THE VALDEZ HORSES, Don Coldsmith and my two special favorites ... Steve Frazee and Louis L'Amour.
Louis will wring your emotions and jump-start your heart.

STEVE: you're not halluciremembering, I recall it, too. And I know if I let it simmer in my puddle, it'll come back to me where/what it was. Gime some room on this. Oh, by the way, I've got some CDs for Chris. Call me tomorrow some time.

TO ALL: I will not argue with your concern that I eat too much and eat too richly. You're right, and it'll likely pound me into grave-puddin', BUT (he said)(defensively)(and utterly beyond even paralogia) on the busy, active, kick-ass day we did Hot Sauce Williams, I'd had virtually NOTHING to eat all day.
This is not to say that it was good for me in the slightest, but I did not gorge. About half of a half-slab of ribs, a bite (just one) off Tim's friend chicken, mostly water and about half a glass of orange sody-pop, on and on and lah-dee-dah-dee-dah. No alibis, just a waft to allay a trifle of your oiy-vey concern.

Hell, you shoulda seen what I had for dinner tonight, out to Pacific Dining Car with my honey, Josh, and HIS honey, Vanessa.

You would only plotz.

Yr. Pal, FatGut Ellison, boy fresser

Mark, Alan, Harlan...
Mark, I agree that you've got ME beat for profane Jewish behavior....but it seems that Harlan was ahead of both of us since he combined the violation of the MOST sacred Jewish holiday with the eating of trafe (spelling?). As for Alan....let's face it, his standards are way too high (though hilarious!) and I am not entirely sure that even Harlan could live up to them.

This whole thing reminded me of a story from my life. When I was young (late teens), my boyfriend related a story to me that shocked me at the time. He said that he and a former girlfriend had gone to a Christian religious shrine in the Holy Land and bribed the priest to leave them alone so they could have sex on the altar. He said he'd done it because she was a Catholic and he was trying to get her to take her religion less seriously. (He didn't say whether it had the desired effect on her). A few years later, at a social event, I happened to meet a couple who stated they had done the same thing, same place, same shrine. I expressed surprise at the coincidence, having heard of this behavior before. One of the other guys chimed in that he had been there and once did the same thing and he added, "That priest is making a fortune!" Hell of a way to make a living.

Infiltrating the Tribe
Zach,

Etiquette would be the same as for any other house of worship, as when I've attended weddings at Catholic churches. Show up, dress well, follow what other people are doing, act appropriately. It is proper in a conservative temple to wear the yarmulke and tallis (prayer shawl), but they're provided, there'll be plenty of people around to follow. A good Rabbi tells the congregation when to stand, what pages to turn to, etc; essentially, the deal is, you stand whenever the ark containing the Torah is open, but you will be given obvious cues throughout. The one thing that may help you follow around is that the prayer book pages are numbered in the opposite direction, i.e. right to left. If you're REALLY concerned about not stepping on any toes, contact the Rabbi first and just tell him that you're a non-Jew not interested in conversion who just wants to attend one Shabbat service out of respect and curiosity; a *good* Rabbi will be delighted and will make a point of seeking you out after the service, to see what you thought. (Indeed, you will likely find yourself invited to somebody's Shabbat Dinner, or to a Passover Seder if that's the time of year.)

A-TC

Mr. Michelitch: Wonderful.

Mr. Church: Do you have your Bill O’Reilly Season hunting license yet? I hope to bag me a big one this year.

And a question for the Jews among us (Is that offensive?):
Surprisingly, we have a little synagogue in this place where I live, and I’m interested in going to a service. Is there anything I should know about etiquette? I’m fairly sure that this is the holiest place in town, and I don’t want to insult anyone with my Gentile ignorance. I ask Y’ALL because I don’t “know” any of the Jewish people here, or maybe I do. Down here, if you’re not a Protestant Christian it’s best if you don’t advertise. It saves you a lot of useless jawing.

And here is an all encompassing congratulation or condolence on any event that happens that any of you might feel has some special significance, beneficial or malign, because I keep missing these things, apparently. I am sorry. Congrats on your birth, Mr. Kramer, and congrats on the successful shindig in The City, everybody that was there.

I have horrible eating habits, just like our Harlan, but my heart is strong and I exercise all the time, never get winded. I have a thing where I love to walk up stairs really fast, am rarely that winded. It's about body chemistry, family history and the like. Lucky to have bunches of old folks in my mottled brood.

Actually, the quality of food is even more important, especially from an esthetic context. It's not like Harlan stuffs his face with big macs. He has a happy stomach, look at it that way.

----------

Bill O'Reilly might have really stepped in it this time. Hopefully, this will stick. You should know what I mean, if not, you never cared any way.

----------

Pork will not hurt you, Jew or Gentile. The pig must be guttet, put on a spit and cooked to a crispy lustful aroma. I'd wear the head and kiss Nuns. Yowza.

Harlan wrote an essay about Louis L’Amour. It can be read here:

http://www.louislamour.com/aboutlouis/louis_n_me.htm

VERRRRRRRY quick question, Harlan:

The Western pulp is a genre I've never looked at, with even the slightest scintilla of interest.

Was Zane Gray or Louie L'Amour a particularly good writer? (from what I've read,I'll say this: the former seemed to provide the template for the Hollywood formula since the silents)

Happy Trails.

Harlan

I've been trying to find information -- completely unrelated to anything literary -- that you might be able to fill in.

There was a tower in Sherman Oaks, I think -- possibly Hollywood -- that in the early '70s was lit, very brightly, by pink lights. I have a clear recollection of the building as seen from the freeway and the hills (my uncle used to live in the hills above S.O., much as you do), but can't connect on which building it was.

This ring a bell??? Sorry to bother you with such a silly thing, but your long-term memory and knowledge of S.O. is far more profound than mine... (or am I daft and no such a structure ever existed???)
____________________________________________

BARNEY - My father had a first edition copy of Escoffier's "Le Guide Culinaire" in close to the same condition as your Twain, which he had redone to his satisfaction. I've dispatched an email asking where he sent it and will forward the response.
____________________________________________

JAROD - A lot of us are tired of it too. Culturally, your advantage is that Australia was colonized by British prisoners, while we were colonized by British religious zealots. No question which group I'd rather hang with...

Heart and Soul
Hey, Simon...

if you see this list:

"BBQ ribs, Polish Boys, pork shoulder, baby backs, fried chicken, mac&cheese, pulled pork, fried okra, orange sody-pop and artery-imploding fuckin' OCEANS of Hot Sauce Williams rib sauce, a bottle of which I brought home with me."

...and your first thought is about health, instead of how you too can get your hands on such an awe-inspiring smorgasbord...

...well, you probably have a healthy heart. But my friend, you ain't got no SOUL.

Mouth-wateringly yours,
Jason

"BBQ ribs, Polish Boys, pork shoulder, baby backs, fried chicken, mac&cheese, pulled pork, fried okra, orange sody-pop and artery-imploding fuckin' OCEANS of Hot Sauce Williams rib sauce, a bottle of which I brought home with me."

Jesus Ellison...how's your heart? I mean, unless you are in a big hurry to get into the ground, which I doubt you are, you might want to rethink your diet. Here's a test (for all of you): walk up and down your stairs four times on a row without stopping. See how you feel. If you can't do it again, you've got a problem.

further insult on the television screen
NBC set Wednesday, Oct. 24, as the premiere date for Phenomenon, a previously-announced alternative series in which Criss Angel and Uri Geller will try to find “the next great mentalist.”

The series of hour-long episodes will air for five Wednesdays at 8 p.m. (EST), including a two-hour live episode on Halloween night.

Deal or No Deal currently airs Wednesdays at 8 p.m.

The show is executive-produced by Suzy Lamb (Grease: You're The One That I Want), Michael Agbabian (Last Comic Standing) and Dwight Smith (Last Comic Standing).

It is from Granada America, Keshet Broadcasting and Kuperman Productions in association with SevenOne International, which controls the format worldwide.

NBC’s alternative department also announced an eight-episode midseason series, My Dad Is Better Than Your Dad, a competition series from Mark Burnett Productions and Reveille (the company founded by NBC Universal co-chair Ben Silverman).

**Therefore, to avoid a constant stream of one-upsmanship, I would put forth that until...**

"Mom, what's so funny? Can I see, huh?"

"No. Get me a paper towel, please."

"Aw, c'mon! What is it?"

"Just a post. Now hurry up, I'm getting hot chocolate everywhere."


S.
(hot chocolate through the nose -- thanks, Berman)

Life On the Mississippi
I'm holding off for a few days on my Cleveland post in some sort of unspoken (until now) "no, after you, I insist" impulse - and because, like Doug - and probably Harlan - I've got boatloads of other stuff that needs doing. But I was wondering if anyone here can help me on another front.

I have a cloth bound 1st edition / 1st state of Twain's LIFE ON THE MISSISSIPPI. I can't say 1st printing exactly because there were sort of four simultaneous 1st states if you include the very rare leather bound edition. In any case, the interesting thing about the 1st state is that it has the illustration of Twain's head floating above his own funeral urn roasting in hellfire on page 441 that his wife Olivia asked be removed from the later editions. This illustration was not restored until approx. a century later by Oxford Press. This 1st edition is ***MY*** copy and is not for sale. But it's a little rough. The boards need cleaning, and there are one or two signatures that need to be reset. Perhaps the text blocks could also be cleaned. Essentially, what I'm looking for is someone who can do a re-binding job on this and pretty it up while retaining As Much of the original book and materials as possible. Can't stress that enough.

The book itself is worth somewhere between $250 and $600.00 in it's present condition. A reconditioning will probably leave the value about the same. Perhaps even less because purists shy away from this sort of monkey business unless the book is in danger of being lost altogether.

With that in mind my choke point on this is probably in the hundred dollar range. MAYBE a little more. If anyone can help me with this or has a recommendation for someone who does this kind of work - let me know. Email's at the top.

Thanks - Barney

Harlan,

Please excuse my impertinence, O Master of Evil. To atone for my arrogance, I shall sacrifice 10 virgins in your honor. They should be relatively easy to procure at the next Science Fiction Convention I attend.

Yours in obedience,

Mark

Hey everyone! Not sure if anyone ever posted from Spain, so I should use the opportunity before I go back. I didn't find any good used book stores where I went, so the only traces of our host that I found in stores (without digging through stacks of unsorted comic book back issues etc.) were a coloured double page in a Spanish encyclopedia about the most important SF writers (I had also seen that book last year), and Harlan's name on the back of Paul Chadwick.

I didn't know Borges wrote nice things about Bradbury (they use that as the introduction to Martian Chronicles) - I wonder what he would have said about Harlan, especially his more recent work.

Looking forward to hearing the radio interview and watching The Discarded next week, as well as moving ahead with S.P.I.D.E.R.

Jan

P.S. Yes, I've seen the Alhambra. It takes a lot of discipline not to put in a day trip to Morroco as well, but I'm counting on getting back here, so that I can "see Africa" with more calm. Though I'm told I wouldn't want to stay in Tangiers for more than a few hours...

Belated Best Wishes
To: Mr Kieth Cramer,

Happy Birthday, Komso!

Cheers
Rob E.

PS - to all you guys below who are admirers of Mr Cramer's exquisite other half, I can tell you that I've stood next to her in a bikini.

Can't remember what she was wearing, though.....

Did I hear my name taken in vain, Mr. Ellison? Probably some other Jack.

By the way, cookies ARE nasty -- unless they come equipped with chocolate chips. Or, occasionally, raisins.


I had a conference call today with some guys for whom I've contracted to write manga scripts. I was trying to pin them down on just how much control they thought they were going to have over what I write, and one of them assured me that it wouldn't be a "Starlost" situation. Do you know who Harlan Ellison is? he asked. Ha.

Jeffty Is Five
Harlan, I'm just passing through, but I have to tell you that "Jeffty Is Five" is, in my opinion, one of the greatest short stories of the twentieth century. I'm 39 now and your writing has had a strong influence on me since I was about 14. You're one of my favorite prose writers and you always will be even if you are a little grumpy now and then. I like your style and it's a pleasure to be able to interact with you at all. I recently (within the past year) purchased two of your books in ebook format. Why would I do this knowing that they're locked into a system that may render them unreadable in the future? Because if I had to I wouldn't mind picking up a second copy. Your stuff's worth it. I always know when I pick up one of your stories that it's gonna deliver the goods. Godspeed and may the muse always bless.

Jon-Paul

P.S. The intro to "Slippage" was kick ass. Major thumbs up.

HARLAN, MARK: Feh.
Much as I hate to put paid to the mutual momzer-measurings of your shondah-schlongs, you would both do well to recall that nothing succeeds like excess.

Therefore, to avoid a constant stream of one-upsmanship, I would put forth that until you have spent Erev Yom Kippur fellating a pig at the base of the Wailing Wall, using lobster bouillabase as lubricant, wearing a white suit (after Labor Day, yet!) for which you paid retail, joyfully reading aloud from the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, after dropping out of dental school, said wasted education having been wholly financed by your long-suffering parents, who raised the money by schlepping furs and by selling the jewelry given your mother by your dear old bubbe (of blessed memory), whose funeral you blew off to see the latest Mel Gibson movie ...

Well, you can't be one hundred percent CERTAIN you can lay claim to the title of Baddest Jew.

Then again, as a wise man (I think it may have been me) once said, "Good Jew ... Bad Jew ... I'm the Jew with the gun."

Harlan's Radio Interview With Respects to Religious Beliefs

Harlan or Anyone else for that Matter:

Listened to Harlan's radio interview last night (Australian Time) and enjoyed it very much, The one thing I don’t understand is how any sane human being in the 21st century could associate the Earth being flat with a religious belief. I mean this argument was put to bed many many moons (also not flat) ago.

Now I'm not a "Bible Basher" or a "Staunch Atheist". I fall into the group of "Confused Agnostic", I'm open to the theory that there might be a God, but I also believe you won’t find Him or Her through organised religion which seems to me to be a way to keep people Segregated & Stupid and remove a nice slice of cash whilst doing so. As someone once said “I believe in a god that doesn’t require heavy financing”.

I always thought God's Message was "Peace, Love & Understanding" not "Lets Keep People Stupid By using My Name to Start Wars & Further Archaic Views on Evolution, Women’s rights and Whatever else you've Got up your Sleeve"

You Guys & Gals in America seen to get smacked in the back of the head with the whole "God's Messenger" scene more than we do in Australia. But over the last decade "God's Messenger's" have been sneaking there way into more & more of our day to day lives and I for one am sick of it.

I think it was Barry Goldwater who said that there is no compromise with these people because they believe God is on there side, Now if a UFO believing anti "Civil Rights Act" Loon Like Goldwater could see that, then what’s wrong with the rest of us.

Wow!, Things Must be Bad If I'm quoting Goldwater or at least paraphrasing him. Anyway that’s my two cents on that Issue.
I hope I made some sense.

Best Wishes
Jarod Hitchcock

Oh! & Harlan, Congratulations on your tribute, thoroughly well deserved & I cant wait to here more

OH, GOLDBERG ...

You poor pathetic wannabe shabbes-goy, you.

Kindly do not attempt to teach your granny how to suck eggs, as we old Jews say. Onaccounta...

AFTER

the evening of ribald revels, the semitic screening, and the sacreligious signing, at 11:30 PM, Yom Kippur night, I led the caravan to

HOT SAUCE WILLIAMS joint on Carnegie

and fressed like a cccchhhhassser on

BBQ ribs, Polish Boys, pork shoulder, baby backs, fried chicken, mac&cheese, pulled pork, fried okra, orange sody-pop and artery-imploding fuckin' OCEANS of Hot Sauce Williams rib sauce, a bottle of which I brought home with me.

I gotcher Philly cheesesteaks right HERE, Goldberg!
----------------------------------------------------------------

I fear Part 2 the Second of LOCAL BOY MAKES GOOD will have to wait a day or so, because my wife is defragging "cookies," whatever the hell THEY are, but the way she describes them, they sound utterly limpet-mine Lovecraftian in nature; and their very existence, in all their temerity, piss me off to the utmost, as the evil Chinese wizard said in BIG TROUBLE IN LITTLE CHINA.

Otherwise, as Jack summed it up, when they ask me, "Have you paid your dues?" I always say, "The check is in the mail."

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Being a Bad Jew
Laurie,

I might have Harlan beat on this one. Many years ago when I was in a rabidly anti-religious phase, my parents asked me to come to their house for a Passover Seder.

A buddy of mine and I drove down from graduate school and decided to make a few stops along the way. We hit Atlantic City, did some gambling, and stopped at the White House for some cheesesteaks. Then, for the sake of comparison purposes, we made a detour to South Philly and got steaks at both Pat's and Geno's.

After that, we went to my parents' house and made it just in time for the blessing over the wine. It is close, but I think the 3 cheesesteaks on the first day of Passover tops Harlan's speech on Yom Kippur just slightly (if we factor in the damage to my arteries, I should win in a landslide)

Thoughts?

Mark

Limberlost?
Harlan: Did you read Gene Stratton-Porter or are you referring to a spot in Indiana (or is it Michigan)?

Peggy, my sweet petunia, my rising vine over the master's wall, ALL governments are naturally corrupt, this is why they need to be checked. Power leads to corruption, about as natural as breathing and the feeling of those small hairs on the back of my neck every time you post.

Flirting? Nah.

Stay you.

-------------

Harlan copyrights Kieth's name. hahahah. Now that's taking this stuff a bit too far. Well, Monsanto tried to patent the human genome, so any thing is possible.

word of the day
Saw this on the little entertainment video screen in the lifts and was compelled to share herein... How completely apropos!

Kakistocracy
- Government by the least qualified or most unprincipled citizens.
- Government by the worst persons; a form of government in which the worst persons are in power.

Wow, Harlan...
What a trip. Can't wait to find out more if you post more. I thought I was a bad Jew because I didn't fast this year. I was hoping my name has not been stricken from the Book of Life. And I've never even joined a temple or attended a Friday service in my whole life. My Zionist cousin in Israel is ashamed to be related to me. I love seafood. But...cavorting on Yom Kipper....??!!! Whew! That carries Jewish atheism to a whole new level. Now I feel better.

Scott:
Thank you! My private mail box guy has informed me that your package has arrived. I will be picking it up later today.

Tad --
Tad --

Peter David has a presence online. I know that he quoted the toast verbatim in one of his columns. You may want to toodle over there and ask nicely. The worst he can do is say no.

Currently re-reading: short stories by Jack Ketchum, in his collection, PEACEABLE KINGDOM. I am not worthy, indeed.

A-TC

What happens in Cleveland...
...stays in Cleveland, except this damned cold I caught.
=====
Man, there are a lot of tall buildings in the big city.
=====
After witnessing much celebration, much worship, and much bowing down while chanting, "We are not worthy! We are not worthy!", I have come to the conclusion that, at least for one evening:

God is a short, fat, angry, septuagenarian Jew.

To absent friends...
The more I hear about Unca Harlan's toast, the more I hope somedamnbody got it on tape/DVD/hard drive/flash memory and can either post the muthalovin thing or (be still my beating heart) send it off to be included among the hidden, super-secret, decoder-ring-club-only extras on the (must be, or there is no Cthulhu) forthcoming DVD of "Dreams With Sharp Teeth".

Please?

Pretty please with sugar and whipped cream?

PLEEEEASE?

Various and Sundry (and Mundry and Tuesdry and...)
FRANK - Osama is actually on the fer-reel FBI 10 Most Wanted List...Ahmadinejad exists in a much vaguer state of contempt/fear/etc. We haven't declared war on his country, we have not sworn out any warrants for his arrest. He's the leader of a sovereign nation and we would need a lot more than we've got to ship him off to Guantanamo.

HARLAN - Welcome back, and the Electric Baby too.

KEITH - The World Loves it When You're Born.

BARNEY - Best belated to you too.

EVERYBODY - So...come here often?

Toast
No warning was necessary. It'd be folly to try to be someone I'm not - especially Harlan Ellison. I was hoping to maybe get ideas for structure, inspiration at least.

Thanks.

Literacy means
Literacy means someone can read and write with basic comprehension and a basic vocabulary.

it does not mean they are well read,liberally-educated, intelligent, liberal, right-thinking. or give a flying keester-ride whether anyone ever wrote word one for them to read.


You can redefine the word "literacy" to your hearts' content, and then use your new definitions to refute whatever you read in the books of statistics. That's called "circular logic", and you are welcome to it. Refute circularly ad infinitum.

There is no complexity unless you insist on adding it.

Go for it. Basta.

KOS

Happy Births-day Wishes

Current to Keith.

Belated to Barney.

correction
okay,

"that's SOMEthing"

jeeze

Happy Birthday, Kieth...Keith...however you spell/mispell it.

Chuck

thanks y'all !! But it's E before I, just like W-E-I-R-D
About the ONE place I figured I could go to, to get away from thoughts of aging, was here, where kids come to play.

I really appreciate the messages I've got, here and elsewhere, but I'm not handling my bday at all well for some reason.

Got the birthday blahs. Won't go into it.

But I am now smiling. And that SOMEthing....

:)

-Keith

Kieth
Dude, you trademarked the shit out of that. He's Kieth now.

Learn to deal with it, Kieth.

Dorman, Kos forgot that there are complexites beyond any poll.

"literacy" means basically that someone can tie their shoes. I use duct tape, but that's another story.

------------

"farbottom." I love it.

"your farbottom looks juicy, even though I'm a leg man."

------------

As I have said, if Osama was in the country we would snap him right up; isn't Captain Iran considered on the same list? Is this even being discussed in the media?

--------------

Erik, Leonard Cohen? Cool, I may just volunteer to be this cat's food taster.

Uh...let's make that KEITH, not "kieth."

I swear, one of these eons I'll get it right.

PRECEDING COPYRIGHT 2007 BY THE KILIMANJARO CORPORATION. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. HARLAN ELLISON IS A REGISTERED TRADEMARK OF THE KILIMANJARO CORPORATION. LIMITED USEAGE ONLY WITH PERMISSION.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Happy Birthday, Kieth!

Yr. Pal, Harlan

LOCAL BOY MAKES GOOD ---- Part One the First
The Electric Baby and I are back. Getting sea legs under us, and cleaning up some work. Soon I will post large. It was, well, imagine leaving your town as a shadow, as a naif, and returning sixty years later to a "tribute." A fulsomely out-of-body experience. Ruminations to follow. The cast of notable characters is lustrous. Including Mr. Dannelke, who made me spit orange sody-pop out of my nose, Mr. Richmond--who will play opposite me in the roadshow production of "Tweedle-Dum and Tweedle-Dee Eat Themselves Into A Coma At The Churrescaria"--my niece Lisa who made my eyes mist over, Mrs. Antonucci who turns out to be a reMARKable woman, our own answers to Rosencrantz and Guildenstern: the messrs Lane and Norris, cameos by the eminent mystery novelist Mr. Les Roberts, the great American philosopher Mr. Anthony Archimedes Isabella, trumpeter Mike Rubin, several Born-Again yet disembodied Fundamentalists, the Specter of Erik Nelson, Princess President Ebony, a large tattooed black woman incognito, the Cleveland Indians, a seemingly endless procession of jackhammerers, shysters Manzo and Ingersoll, a woman who kept insisting I'd had sex with her and given her to child despite having had my vasectomy 25 years before she insisted we'd met and conjoined, and last but not a minim too soon, an audience wholly (save 3) composed of Gentiles, as it was the eve of the holiest of the Jewish High Holy Days, Yom Kippur, and I was--unlike every OTHER Jew in Ohio--enthralling the goyim whilst my people beat their breasts and atoned in shul after shul across America. For which, if there is one, I will surely fricassee in the farbottom.

All this, and more, in the next installment of

LOCAL BOY MAKES GOOD: A Tale of the Limberlost!

Happy Birthday Dear Keith.
:)
Cindy

Electronic Libraries and Literacy
Stephen asked about electronic libraries and how they work. I thought I might shed some light. There are companies that provide materials in an electronic format to libraries for their patrons. Two that I know of are here:

http://www.overdrive.com/products/dlr/

http://www.netlibrary.com/

We offer overdrive at our library. The library purchases individual copies of books than can only be downloaded by one patron at a time. Patrons download pdf copies of books that remain useable for 21 days and then are automatically checked back in. No overdues! You can do limited printing and copy & paste. Authors are paid by these companies for the rights to distribute the books. Our overdrive account includes several works by our esteemed host.

As to literacy, I always question the figures I see in almanacs, encyclopedias, etc., because we are deluged with reports about the lack of literacy in this country. One such is here:

http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2007480

The CIA World Fact book states that the U.S. has a 99% literacy rate. Oh well, they also said Iraq was building WMD's. So much for the CIA's credibility.

Cheers, Ben (the lurking librarian)

Harlan's Toast for Peter David's wedding day
***Matt***

Harlan's toast would be even rougher to adapt and personalize than mine was. The "things to not talk about" section clocks in at about 11 minutes whereas my whole thing including going off the rails at one point, only ran 4 minutes 40 seconds.

Plus, Harlan's has him **ahem** - working "blue" for some bits. Overt references to bestiality is not the worst of it by a long shot. It was written "for the room" and Harlan himself has said only worked for about half the room.

Now that I've tried to warn you - it appeared in a back issue of Comic Buyers Guide about... 5 years ago? Six? Tempus Fugit baby. And I don't have the issue number handy. My measly paragraph of "don't's" were sort of off the cuff - and designed to raise an eyebrow but not piss people off. Had the real world "don'ts" been mentioned I'm sure I could have had my ass handed to me by all kinds of people that glorious day.

Peter David, Glenn Haumann and Tim Richmond all lurk here and one of them might know. It does not (as far as I know) appear on the net - which is just as well because that is pretty much the opposite of the one-size fits all toast.

- Barney

Everybody wish Keith Cramer a Happy Birthday!

Glad the event in Cleveland went well, hopefully next year I will be able to join you at one of these speaking engagements.

Mark

Speaking about Erik and documentaries, I was watching the Leonard Cohen documentary the other night and saw Erik's name in the credits.

"All the Sounds of Fear" personified?
I am a fan of the radio show, "This American Life" and the past week's show, "Twentieth Century Man" is reminiscent of HE's story. It makes for very interesting listening and you can hear it at this website:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/

In general, I recommend the show. Many episodes can be insightful, tragic and hilarious. Recommended episodes are "Unconditional Love", which is harrowing at times and the first story of "The Super" is nothing short of amazing, but try not to read the synopsis.

Brian Phillips

thanks
hi everyone. please forgive typos. i am still much more cozy with pen and paper than computer. To Cindy and Paul from Texas, thank you for your kind responses. I do feel much better. I watched a sad movie at home that night, reread some of Harlan's stuff, had a good cry and went to sleep. It helped to vent here. To Mr. and Mrs. E., congratulations on Cleveland; sounds like it went great. One day I hope I will make a lecture or event. It would mean a lot to me. I've been a reader of your work since I was 18. I don't get to log on every day as this computer is my sister's at her house, but I am always amazed at the comments and the people who are here. I don't know about you guys, but that Burgomeister guy sounds deranged and scary to me. He should have had my wonderful English professors from college, Tom and Peg and Sister Helen. They would have drummed in the whole thing about copyright and stealing other's creative work into his head, as they did into mine. Anyways, I just wanted to say thanks for the kind words and for listening.(P.S. I have two other cats, one a six month old kitten, and she made me laugh out loud today running through the house.)

Ephemeris
Cleveland - Sounds like a splendid time was had by all. And "Please, Sir; I'd like some more": More details from those who were there for those who could not attend...please.

Frank Church - "Plastic Surgery Disasters" from the Dead Kennedys was, I think, the high-water mark of Punk music. A Jello Biafra documentary is overdue indeed. The biopic of Ian Curtis from Joy Division is opening soon. He was a needed counter-balance to the 80's pop-tuniness of the era, but as a suicide he's erased himself and most of the influence of the music he helped create. Jello's alive and his lyrics and voice are still aloud and needed.

Erik Nelson - I watched the first common-sense documentary about Area 51 I'd ever seen this weekend on the Discovery Channel: Its an Air Force base used to test Top Secret Air Force experiments mistaken for UFOs? Finally! And I saw your name listed as Producer. Pleased, pleased as punch, I was. So WHEN and WHERE will the Herzog Antarctica documentary air? One of my primordial pleasures has always been Antarctic discovery (The Last Place on Earth by Roland Huntford, BBcized with Martin Shaw and Sverre Anker-Ousdal - anyone remember??).

Man vs.Wild: Ah, Bear Grylls returned tonight in surreptitious style. Barely announced, after a hiatus of over a month. And with the already aired Season 2 episodes re cut. (I've compared them with the episodes I recorded back in June and July, and the on-air narrations now include acknowledgments of the crew for helping construct platforms and tying rope and the like). I think that they're an improvement on the original episodes, actually. On his website Bear had quoted a letter from Sir Ranulph Fiennes in Bear's defense about allegations regarding questions about his recent Everest para glide. Fiennes is about as good a friend as one can possibly get, I'd think.

Laurie: The package is on its way. You should receive it tomorrow morning.

Scott McKinley

I wouldn't kid myself about Ahm'jad. He's got some power.

So how many showed up in Cleveland? There are no reports on the Net.

The other thing about Ahmadinejad (and I'm using Rob's spelling, so he better have it right) is that he doesn't hold any real power. That is monopolized by the religious clerics, who find him an embarassment.

All this talk of war. Have the neo-cons learned nothing?

-Steve E.

I meant "prone to"

Ahmadinejad and the Bush Mob are equally prone at talking bullshit and using anything conceivable as a smoke screen. They are equally corrupt. Equally covetous. Equally bound to their personal interests at the expense of their own people.

They're one of a kind.

Not to wax philosophical, but they rather remind me of the anatomy of the human ass:

Like the glutei maximi, they are cheek-to-cheek - with both Persian and American civilian populations stuck in the middle like masses of innocent anal hairs!

Yep. It's the anatomy of civilization, man. And its spine is deteriorating a little more every day.

Wedding Toasts
I lurk here quite often but rarely post. I'm content to listen. However, Barney Dannelke's posting and online toast come just as I'm pondering this myself. I'm giving the toast at my best friend's wedding in a month or so. The "internets" are offering basic advice. I'll be hitting the library this weekend for a decent book on the subject.

I was wondering if Our Esteemed Host's Toast for Peter David was available to read. I have every intention of being myself, but I was hoping to get a peek at the structure.

Thanks for the advice.

Frank's last post
KOS: Hate to stand on Frank's shoulders and pee in your cheerios, but, well, I think the boy -- I said -- I think the boy has a point (and not the one atop his shoulders, either).
Maybe even two or three. Polls schmolls (and no, that wasn't an ethnic joke), if you take the time to talk with just about anyone these days, their lack of cognizance, information and self-education is sadly apparent. (I think Winston Churchill said it best: "...the best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." And when we're talking about one of the wealthiest, most information-laden nations in the world -- um, that'd be Amurrica -- more is the pity when it comes to masses and their willful ignorance.

As for the President of Iran, although I think is a swine -- a evil schwine, at that (espeically because of the lies he propogates) -- I do believe Frank hit the nail on the head again when saying the Bush administration is using him mostly as smoke to their badly shined, administrative mirrors. And -- at the risk of sounding so liberal I make Frank seem conservative -- doesn't anyone think we in the U.S. are hyppocrites for always bringing up the Nuclear weapon card when we have so many of our own? (It's almost like a Missourian who owns 27 different firearms -- including some automatic weapons and a LAW rocket -- complaining that his new neighbor because said neighbor wants to buy a handgun and a semi-automtatic rifle). (And I know: the analogy could be extended to include, but it's been proven that the new neighbor has killed members of his own family, not to mention some neighbors in his old "hood"...to which one must honestly reply...so has the crazy, over-armed Missourian).

--DTS
(who has had one beer, three in all, too many -- time to go on the wagon for another six months --what a WEEK I'm having!)

I was sad to learn that Marcel Marceau has died. Many years into my past, he once brought me to tears with one of his performances. I have never forgotten it. Not too many artists of any type have ever moved me to tears. Marceau displayed a level of talent and skill that moved me that deeply, something the great mime had in common with our host here.

reply to rob
ro rob ewen-river deep, mountain high is usually listed as one of the genius records of all time but it died a slow death over here. phil specter put an ad in the trades that said something to the effect that "benedict arnold was right" because it was a huge hit in the u.k. i've never seen a convincing explanation as to why it flopped. there are musicians who will point out any number of technical things wrong with it or there are others who say that the production was phil shaking his fist at god and other greil marcus-isms. it is safe to say that he never got over the failure of that record in the u.s. hope that helps. john

I'm not backtracking, but I meant literacy in an esoteric way, not the cold stats, which as most know means very little. America is full of dummies, this we can all agree on--and no cheap jokes.

Who knows how they frame literacy rates, probably by test scores, which have been proven, by Alvy Kohn, among others, to not mean much.

The people in those countries sure are better informed. Plus our extreme religious beliefs put us right up there with Iran.

-------------

Here's a very simple, honest question--if the President of Iran is such a grave terrorist, then why didn't our government just have him arrested? They could have shot him or poisoned his tea. It's not like they haven't done it before.

I'd surmise that Mahmoud is not as dangerous as they say. This has always been a way to avoid talking about how bad Iraq is actually going.

Larnin' New n' Empressivary Words

And we thought the President was a bad influence on English speakers everywhere...

Knowing the nuances of our language has never been more vital than it is right now. In an attempt to hide the true nature of what is meant, we've all seen phrases that purposely are used ... um, "repurposed" ... to mislead the illiterate.

The government isn't monitoring us, they're "surveilling". I don't call people, I "reach out" to them. George Bush has a "strategery" that he apparently "misunderestimated".

(And, in one that may appeal to Harlan: The Earth isn't flat, it's "spatially challenged".)

Today I read a reference to fast food restaurants "rethermalizing" their frozen ingredients.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I'm going to go rethermalize my coffee as I ponder repurposing myself.

Responses to Mary and Alex
Slip of the thumb! Sorry.

To Mary: Thank you for your kind words. My wife and I support organizations such as the Southern Poverty Law Center, who keep people aware of situations such as the one in Jena, LA. I would say that it's best to stay on your guard. Ellison said in an interview when Reagan was elected is to stay on watch (I hate to paraphrase, but as I remember it, HE suggested sending post cards to Reagan saying, "We're watching you") for such things. When you are aware, you notice things like a klan rally being called a "White Family Picnic" (this was the euphemism used in the 80's in Stone Mountain, GA). It's easy to have your focus shifted toward the daily twominuteshate (It's the Commies! It's the Terrorists! It's Britney! It's OJ!) Here is the link for the SPLC:

http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

To Alex:

Thank you for the information about amplified instruments. I didn't know about Loar or Stroh. I did think about arch-top guitars and also the Maccaferri-designed Selmers that Django Reinhardt played, but decided to stick to electric instruments. I also slipped by not saying that Durham's guitar was the first known ELECTRICALLY amplified guitar recorded.

"Ready, Aim...Sing!" - T. Lehrer,
Brian Phillips

Responses to Mary and
http://www.splcenter.org/index.jsp

Cleveland postponed
I'm still catching up from the weekend and will write up this past weekend's 16 hour dive bombing and pre-dawn retreat on Cleveland as soon as I can. I was toasting at a wedding on Saturday afternoon and so I couldn't stick around and schmooze with my favoritist peoples on the Earth - but will try and make up for it this coming Spring, if not sooner.

The toast went well and here is an early link to the transcript.

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.ListAll&friendID=78385948

I freely admit to stealing the concept behind Harlan's toast to Peter David and his bride - but only for one paragraph. There was an open bar all afternoon BEFORE the wedding and the crowd would never have stood for an unexpurgated 11 minute personalized version - which I didn't have time to write in any case.

I did shout down one wannabe heckler with "I'm working a single here!" and even though it's probably an 80 year old Catskill Club catch phrase, it's usage in my experience is Pure Harlan.

The Mr. Mark reference at the 2/3rd point worked like this -

Mr. Mark (a local performance artist, disc jockey, musician and good friend of mine and the Bride's) gave his wedding toast in another grove in the same park for another friend of ours - and committed suicide by gun in his car less than a half mile from where we were all standing about a year later. Of the 100 or so guests, perhaps 55 had listened to Mr. Mark on the radio, 35 knew him and at least two dozen including many of the wedding party had worked with him or knew him socially. There was a resonance to that section for some that hit pretty hard - if you knew Mark.

So that was Saturday. Wedding and reception were PERFECT. A day as good as Friday which was FINE in ways I'll write about tomorrow.

Of course Sunday the Packers went 3-0 over the Chargers. That's three Barney-centric great days in a row. I'm living in FEAR of the pendulum swing that must be coming.

Next time -

"Cleveland Rocks - now with fewer attempted car-jackings, by Little Barney Dannelke, age - how did it get so late?"

If you wouldn't want to live in a right-wing fascist dictatorship even though they "keep the trains running on time", why would you want to live in a left-wing fascist dictatorship just because they have a good health care system?

My understanding though is that the Cuban system has deteriorated significantly since the Soviet subsidies ran dry.

networking

Thanks to whoever passed word to Mr. Ellison about my request to get in touch. I got your phone messsage in reply, Harlan. It's not an emergency; I got overexcited. I'll call you Tuesday.

All roads go to Cleveland.
Wow. What can I say? In the words of Mr. Isabella: "Magical".

Ever since I saw him interviewed on "Prisoners of Gravity" back in the early nineties, I have been dying to see a Harlan Ellison lecture. When I saw the ad for Friday's event, I thought two things:

a) I've driven to Cleveland once before, it's not too far.

b) I've got absolutely nothing else to do on Fri. September 21.

Rather than a lecture, the whole thing felt like a private party I'd been allowed to sit in on. There was a moving tribute from friends and family members, the movie was engrossing, and the man himself is a treasure trove of wit and wisdom. At the book table, the lovely and talented Susan Ellison was most helpful (I was the one who pulled twenty bucks from his sock to pay for "Dreams with Sharp Teeth).

Best of all, I got to spend some quality time with my Dad, who decided to come along for the adventure. Not only do border guards love him, but he is also a fount of wisdom, and probably my best friend. Along the way, he finally worked up the nerve to ask me an important question, and I finally worked up the nerve to answer. He loved the talk as well.

So, to Mr. and Mrs. Ellison, Mr. Antonucci, those nice people at the Hampton Inn, I say "Much thanks"

-Steve E. Dylag

P.S. Favorate moment: "Why are looking like K. Fed? Of all the dipshit looks. . ."

If you really want to...

I try very very hard to be at least competent, if nowhere near expert, in everything I put my hand to. However, there are those things (like golf and music) that I will never exceed at, and that's fine. It's not necessary to be the best to enjoy what you're doing. I remember an essay (I no longer recall by whom, but it puts me in mind of Robert Fulghum of "Everything I Need To Know...") that put forth the argument that there are things that make us happy enough to do them, that it doesn't matter if we are any good at them. This is not in defense of incompetence, but a matter of setting your priorities. If what you want is to be a professional musician, then you have a very hard road ahead, but if what you want is just to be able to play that piano your aunt left you, then your goal might be not so difficult with more determination than talent. You might never be able to play in the NBA or NFL, but you can get together for a backyard game with your buddies and be every bit as happy, if you know what it is that makes you happy.

The journey is the reward.

Croatoan
Article on AOL news about "amateur archaeologists" (??) looking for traces of the lost Roanoke colony:

http://tinyurl.com/3xvwsw


made me think of y'all......

Gene Roddenberry?
This is rich. On Ebay, iten #190155149571, someone is selling a script from CITY ON THE EDGE OF FOREVER which is credited on the cover sheet solely to Gene Roddenberry, and the seller makes a point of mentioning that Roddenberry wrote it. But no one else is mentioned as the author of that work.

The old you can be anything you want to line
This is only true within parameters. If you don't have the physical size or the appropiate talent, you will not be a professional football player or a concert pianist.

The War

Just a reminder that Ken Burn's THE WAR is coming on soon. I've been watching all the pre-show stuff, our local affiliate is hitting us with a couple hours of hometown WWII documentaries. Sometimes I forget how wise some older people are, and it can't be "just the older generation's" fault for everything. WWII was one unbelievable hell-fuck, regardless of when we got there, and that that generation could bring back a semblance of normalcy here just astounds me.

In today's war, your president tells you to shop, and the greatest-selling protest is a magnetic ribbon.
It's enough to make me wish the world was flat, and we could push these venal political fuckers off the deep end for good.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

P.S. I can't believe I just discovered Raymond Crowe. Here's a little thing

http://www.milkandcookies.com/link/66513/detail/

for the anniversary week of Louis Armstrong's interview with Larry Lubenow in 1957. This one:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/23/opinion/23margolick.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

Why has no one told me about this Raymond cat? I need my news "outside the bubble."

Literacy and lies
Well, though I am certain "burnin' down the house" Frank Church will have his own statistics (what's an ideologue without a set of cooked book's, after all?), I see from Wikipedia, that eminently "democratic" source (with all the flaws of the "democratic" form) that the USA has a 99.9 percent literacy rate, Cuba a 99.8 percent (a dead heat statistically), and Venezuela... 93 per cent.

To doublecheck, "GeographyIQ.com" lists Cuba at 99.8 per cent, USA at 99.0 per cent (Cuba has a clear lead of eight-tenths of one per cent, ensuring that when the refugees of the workers paradise arrive here they are ready to participate in a free society, thankyouverymuchfidelyoubarbarousthug) and Venezuela, again, at 93 per cent.

Here they are: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_literacy_rate

http://www.geographyiq.com/ranking/ranking_Literacy_total_population_dall.htm

Took me all of thirty seconds to fact check Frank into the boards.

Good luck on that baseball story there. I have one that combines baseball wth zeppelins. Babe Ruth goes on a goodwill tour of Europe, and takes the Hindenburg home.

Erik, I regularly see the creative diff logo on these most interesting doc's on various "Discovery Network" connected channels. They've often got subjects I know a lot about (and you've yet to have anything in them I can find fault with). Should you ever need a writer for something on China, I did a 25 part TV series on Chinese history a few years ago. I also have an encyclopedic knowledge of history, especially military and ancient types.

End of commercial.

KOS

The Net is thus far about as permanent as a toaster oven

Weirdly, I've been using the same toaster oven since college - coming on twenty years now. I don't know what that says about the internet, or me, but I think it is safe to say that in the mid to late 1980s, the toaster over division of GE made a pretty good product.

Enough Marcel Marceau jokes!
How about a _moment of silence_ for the guy, eh?

The last thing Marcel said
" ."

"Don't put me in a box!"

"Just saw that Marcel Marceau died last night."

What were his last words?

The sad thing is literacy is higher in both Cuba and evil Venezuela. Soooo, the commies are better at health care, literacy, democratic grass roots action...

I think we need a revolution...beaoooch..

------------

Let's be honest here, you put a camera in front of Harlan and just let him riff and you have a fun time, no matter if I film it. Not to denegrate Erik, whom I love with a passion that only equals the wine snoot who gets to sniff the cork.

Erik, next documentary: how about contacting Jello Biafra; now that would be an amazing documentary as well. The guy is about as opinionated as our swell pal.

-----------

The John Pilger documentary, War On Democracy is a must see. He shows behind the scenes at the Coup that ousted Hugo Chavez and how our media spinned it. His interview with an ex-Cia chief is hair frying. When the guy says that we should be able to bomb any country we want and doesn't seem that shy in admitting it, that's all the evidence you need to prove this whole scam is just that.

Hey, all. It's been a heck of a month:

-- got T-boned by a minivan (driven by a 19-year-old), wrecked my beloved 1993 Grand Am, bruised a kidney & twisted my mid-back -- naturally, the one stretch I don't/didn't have problems with -- but on the upside latched onto a 2001 Alero that looks great & drives oooookay

-- came down with nasty bronchitis

-- fried my PC's hard drive -- anyone know a cheap platter-recovery service...? -- but thank heavens for my habit of running anything remotely important onto nice old-fashioned paper.

-- moved a literal ton of Stuff to a new domicile

Not fishing for pity or even Best Wishes. I'm geting my sleep back & only missed one day of work. Just wanted ya to know I've missed this site & you scruffy lot. I'm almsot caught up on Pavilion posts.

Will restrain myself from dissecting Cory Doctorow's stance, something I've differed with for some time now, though I side with HE that I don't think him either evil or stupid.

KOS: I have an SF baseball story in the works. Pray for me.

Ezra Lb: literacy has never been any great shakes in the past half-century I've shambled this plane. I've always been seen as "weird" for reading. Hardly a new thing. I read maybe a book a week, & last I checked that puts me in a tiny minority. So it goes.

The "permanence" of the Internet: last year, my webhost (a Big Company) broke something & thousands of us had to go in & perform digital surgery on our sites to get database access back. The stuff was all there... but nobody could get access to it. The Net is thus far about as permanent as a toaster oven, & (see above) I prefer paper.

My tuppence for joining sighs over the loss of Mr. Hensley. HE's "DV" mini-bio of the guy was & is the most hilarious & penetrating of all the great intros, & one I've enjoyed reading aloud. Hensley was high on my "If there's really a God I need to meet this guy" list.

Susan E.: when I rediscover a few more unsinged neurons I'll be renewing the "Rabbit Hole" sub. Thanks (again) for a fun & informative newsletter that makes these hinterlands seem a tad less remote.

Mime

Just saw that Marcel Marceau died last night.

Sorry for the second post, but thought it was worth noting.

Cleveland, Cris, and Everybody Loves Raymond

DOUGLAS - Thank you for being the first off the mark with some detail about the evening (Tony Isabella drew first blood, but it was a short missive so you get the brownie points). It's nice to know the evening went well and you got a chance, however hurried, to talk to Harlan. Also glad you liked Erik's movie and ditto the sentiments about its addition to your DVD collection.
________________________________________

ROB EWEN - Thank you. Yes, we know of the wonderful horn player by the same name/similar spelling, in fact he was cited by BBC International in their flattering review of Cris' third cd -- suggesting (tongue in cheekily) that perhaps she should have picked a different name, but that once people heard the album they would not get the two confused. (Truth to tell, Cris originally DID spell her name with an H but deleted it to make it more streamlined...)

The new cd, as of last night when inspiration struck during dinner at TGI Friday's, has a title. I am held to secrecy but can offer a clue: It's a line from a Beatles song she covers on the album.

We're heading for Vegas this weekend to lay down percussion tracks.
____________________________________________

ADAM-TROY - I agree with you wholeheartedly. What I got was the impression the callers were trying to suggest the actress on THE VIEW -- who, by the way, played a role on EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND -- was trying to make a spiritual point rather than admit willful ignorance to give her the benefit of the doubt intellectually. Obviously the callers hadn't seen the clip. I thought Harlan did a wonderul and tactful job in dealing with those people despite his street rep. Also, kudos to the host of the show, she did a great job and clearly was familiar with both Harlan the man as well as his work. Gotta love the NPR folks.

(BTW - I listed the above reference to EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND because, well, it helps to know who she might be, and more importantly is dollars to donuts the first time EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND has been mentioned on the Pavilion. The search engines ought to have fun with this...)

Second ATC - Thanks for the later clarification. I actually DID think you were in a mood today.

(2nd BTW - Loving DOCTOR WHO season three and TORCHWOOD season one. In my opinion Russell Davies is the JMS of the UK. (I would say "Ron Moore", but these shows are anything but depressingly dark...)

Harlan sighting
If this was noted in a previous month, I missed it and I apologize for the repetition. Harlan's name is mentioned in the Roy Thomas introduction to the Marvel Masterworks Warlock Vol. 1 edition. It's in reference to a letter a reader had sent in flattering Thomas that his script reminded him of Harlan Ellison's work.

"The library could not kill all the lights for the show so Mr. Ellison insisted they hold the showing until they could which was great as we got to hear him tell some great stories while they tried to do it. He does a great rendition of the leprechauns and the nun joke."

Don't he just, Maynard? That happens to be one of my favorite jokes. I had the pleasure of of hearing Mr. Ellison tell it at a local convention a few years back as one of his opening pieces for a panel. He enjoyed telling it, quirky voices and all, as much as the audience enjoyed hearing it. The cherry on top was the six year old girl in the audience and how he, very lightly but certainly, made sure her parents realized that most responsible adults would not bring a six year old to one of his engagements for good reason. The assured him that she enjoyed his stories and would be no trouble. To

So, after the leprechaun joke he obliged by answering the eternal question of whether poo sticks to rabbit fur because "anything with animals and poo is gonna be funny to a kid". He was right; she loved it.

That is another of my all time favorite jokes.

Okay, I have simple pleasures.


S.

Addendum Fior Clarity
That wasn't snark. The movie is actually called NOTHING.

Just Sayin'
I was a little dumbfounded listening to the radio interview, when not one but TWO callers chose, of all possible topics, the 'world may be flat' lady and the importance of defending her on a 'spiritual' level. Aaaarrrrggghhh...!

Obscure SF film worth finding: NOTHING.

Cleveland
The Cleveland event was great. They had some of Mr. Ellison’s friends and family come up and say a few words about him and they were all fine tributes. I’m sure he will describe that in better detail then I could. The library could not kill all the lights for the show so Mr. Ellison insisted they hold the showing until they could which was great as we got to hear him tell some great stories while they tried to do it. He does a great rendition of the leprechauns and the nun joke. Oh the T-shirt got to him in time for the show! After awhile they got the lights off and the movie started.

This was an amazing film. One of the opening speakers said it left you with a real feel for the man and not just the dates of his life and he was so right. Erik Nelson can be very proud of the work he has done here. I don’t know what else to say about it except see it the moment you can. When the DVD eventually comes out it will be in my collection.

After the show Mr. Ellison came back up and did more commentary. He expanded on the cheerleading story from the movie and other topics. I loved how he would weave in stories and questions from the beginning of the night no matter how often he was interrupted. Speaking of interruptions some jerk got a hold of the back microphone and demanded Mr. Ellison finish a Lenny Bruce story quite rudely. I think everyone in the audience thought this dude was a jerk as well and thankfully he left after Mr. Ellison cut him down a peg or two.

After the talk the autograph line started. I regret I could not hear the conversations going on where he was but he looked to be having a good time with people. Sadly the Library had to close at 11pm so they started rushing it a bit. I was going to Thank Mrs. Ellison for sending me a one of the original Dream Corridor comics and a mouse pad when I ordered a couple copies of the “Paladin of the Lost Hour” CDs a year ago but the line was going to fast by that point and she had to pack up. So I extend my thanks to her for her good work and efforts here instead.

By the time I got to Mr. Ellison they really wanted us to go and I did not want to hold up the line so I stumbled on my words a bit. I think I sounded like a confused fanboy instead of an intelligent human being. I sort of shoved the Blotter I brought him into his hands then babbled a bit. He was very gracious about it. I now have the book that got me though a very rough patch in my life autographed and they will take it from my cold dead hands when I am gone. All in all it was a wonderful evening and well worth the drive to Cleveland.

Cris Barber
Steve B. - just read your posts from a while back re your wife's upcoming CD release. You asked for a description of an eclectic gathering of items as a possible title for the album.

How about 'Mish-Mash'? Or 'Hotch-Potch' (or the alternative 'Hodge-Podge')? Are these familiar terms in the US?

And did you know that there is a veteran UK jazz trumpeter and band leader named Chris Barber.....? Hope you never confuse Cris with Chris - could be embarrassing in the wrong circumstances....

cheers
Rob E.

PS to all - is Ike and Tina Turner's RIVER DEEP MOUNTAIN HIGH popular in the US? It was a huge hit over here in the 60's, yet when I casually mentioned it in conversation with an American friend, he said he'd never heard of it....

PPS - any reports from Cleveland?

Ellison alert


HARLAN:

I have something I need to discuss with you, preferably within the next 24 hours. Any good time to call on Sunday?

David Loftus

Best O'Dubyah:

"I heard somebody say, 'Where's Nelson Mandela?'

Well, Mandela's dead.

Because Saddam killed all the Mandelas."

Snort the wisdom, maaaaan.

Alex,

I presumed it started yesterday, but doesn't it run through today at Sunset?? Apologies for my lack of knowledge regardn g jewish holidays. Quite inexcusable considering my best friend from high school is jewish... but we never talked about the holidays much.

JUST JOHN: No one is denying that the fight in which Justin Barker was knocked out was wrong--but no one seems to note that nothing was done about the white kid who was, two days before, waving a gun around. Mind you, one of the black kids wrestled the gun away from him--and HE was charged with disturbing the peace and theft of a firearm.
No one seems to acknowledge the assembly called after the noose incident when, unhappy with the fact that the kids protesting the incident weren't listening, the district attorney angrily said, "with one stroke of my pen, I can make your life disappear."
No one seems to point out that the fight started because Justin Barker was mocking one of the "Jena 6"--who had been beaten up by another white kid the week before (the same kid who had taken the gun away from the kid who'd been brandishing it).

You bet your ass it's a civl rights issue, no matter if we don't like the fact that the proponent were on the winning side of a one-sided brawl. Justice must be done, and justice must be fair.
(Hell; Miranda and Escobedo were total scumbags, yet out of them has come one of the most important rights dealing with the police--the right to be TOLD of your rights ...)

PEG: Thank you--but Yom Kippur--this holiday I keep but hate--bega at sunset on Friday.
(Interestingly, our rabbi--who's really great; the only one I've ever seen where NO ONE sleeps through his sermons--made a couple small missteps in last night's sermon; I made sure to wait until the receiving line ended, and politely expressed my displeasure. He took it well, and I think he took it under advisement. Today's sermon was at his usual great level.)

BRIAN PHILLIPS: I'm loath to tell you you're wrong, since you lied so sweetly and said such nice things about me--but in your pointing out that Harlan was wrong (which he was), you yourself got it a little wrong.

Amplified guitars have been around since before the turn of the century, if you realize that "amplified" does not necessarily mean "electric".

First, we have to realize that resonator guitars such as Dobros or nationals are amplified by the simple dint of having the resonator cone.
Also, August Stroh (yes; the beermaker) and others made all sorts of amplified string instruments from the late nineteenth century on; weird contraptions with big trumpet bells coming out of them.

Here's a Strohviols ukelele: http://www.oddmusic.com/gallery/om26600.html
All sorts of Stroh instruments: http://www.springersmusic.co.uk/Library/Stroviols.htm
A Strohviols guitar: http://www.soundpost.co.uk/STROH.html
And a history of the Stroh instruments: http://www.digitalviolin.com/StrohViolin1.html

Also, Les Paul did NOT invent the electric guitar--he was playing around with electromagnetic pickups in '29, but never really found anything workable. (He DID, however, invent the first solid-body electric guitar in 1941, with his "Log".

The first available electric guitar was released by Lloyd Loar way back in 1925--the "Vivitone"--but it sank without a trace.
Adolph Rickenbacher and George Beauchamp made the first successful electric guitar in 1931, a lap steel aptly labeled the "Frying Pan".

And Charlie Christian was performing with Gibson ES-150s as early as 1937 or 1939, so yes; Harlan was wrong.

TONY OF TIPS FAME: I am envious of you, as usual.

A Tribute to Harlan Ellison
It was a magical night. I had a great time, met great people, and watched a great documentary. Best of all, I got to hug two of my favorite people in the world.

Harlan, you still got it, babe.

Susan, you always had it! :)

Tony

Your own eloquence in that last sentence of your post should not only be commended, Mr. Phillips, but followed. I've grown tired of the same things happening over and over again...what is it that we keep doing wrong? What can be done to stop future hate crimes, period? I'm for finding out why these sort of things happen, and see what can be done to stop it, with less talk and more action. Enough is enough is enough.

Thanks to Mr. Nelson, but...Harlan Ellison is wrong on one point.
Forgive me for posting twice, but it has been 18 hours between posts.

First, I wish to apologize for the poor grammar of my previous post. I could blame my wife's early birthday present of Everlast boxing gloves, but it was just quick and bad typing.

Second, in the wonderful call-in interview that Erik Nelson informed the board about there was a small point that Ellison sort of gets wrong. I will preface this by saying that I know WHAT he meant, but he is not correct in saying that when he was a boy, "...there was no such thing as an amplified guitar". This is not true. The first amplified guitar recorded was played in 1934 by Eddie Durham and can be heard here:
http://www.durhamjazz.com/audio.htm
Les Paul also built an early version of an electric guitar as early as 1929 (source, "The Guitar Player Handbook"). Even Django Reinhardt recorded on an electric guitar as early as 1947, which would make Ellison twelve or thirteen, if you want to get specific, but that is after the time he ran away and...listen to the interview which makes better listening that this post provides reading.

What Ellison meant was, of course, that in the terms of what could be considered adventurous and glamorous, joining the circus was a choice, while standing on a stage playing "The Star-Spangled Banner" with your wah-wah and volume pedals simulating bombs and missiles in upstate New York was certainly not.

Third, I would normally have weighed in sooner, with regards to the Jena incident, because in earlier years, when a racially motivated event or issue was discussed on a mailing list or a forum which I read, I would sit back and watch with sad amazement as people would spout half-baked views on race.

However, Mr. Berman's post was very, very eloquent and I thank him for it.

I would also like to add, that even though I didn't grow up in a Plessy vs. Ferguson mindset or area, nor have I been beaten when I have marched for civil rights (I haven't done that much, but I have done a little), I do know a couple of things.

I know what it's like to be stopped by the police for running across the street on green lights, and being cuffed the second time ("there was a robbery and you're wearing a gray sweater and brown skin and so was the burglar" was the gist of the reason I was handcuffed). I also know what it is like to be questioned about a robbery and rape and then have an officer say, due to my age (14), "...I don't think ya did it. If you got her in there, you wouldn't know what to do with her." This memory still rankles because this woman had described her attacker as a six-foot tall man with a mustache and I was 5'5" and trying to RAISE a mustache.

In short, I don't have to imagine some of the feelings of the Jena 6, because I have had them.

I haven't beaten anyone until they bled, I haven't committed arson, but it's hard (especially before I was a Christian) to be passive when you see something that suggests a lynching. That, however, is the challenge of this life and I don't condone the beating that the Justin Barker got, but I do bristle at the punishments. The nooses in the tree were a hate crime, as far as I am concerned, but let's say that the LaSalle parish has no law against this. I'd think it was vandalism, which is defined as "defacement of property", because you could argue that three nooses dangling from a tree isn't decoration (and it wasn't Halloween).

It would seem that what the Jena 6 got was a sort of cumulative justice, something akin to tying a corpse of a Wild West outlaw to a tree with a sign that says, "Here's what we do to lawbreakers".

I wonder how softly the "Noose 3" have been walking, as of late.

Let's pray for accurate navigation to whatever corner we must find and turn it. It's decades past the time we should be dealing with these issues here or around the world.

Brian Phillips

A blessed Yom Kippur to those who celebrate it tomorrow...

" The cause is, however, eminently vindicated by the (just) popularity of the Burgomeister's Books."

Wow.

This person may be the living embodiment of the term "moral illiterate."

Sensational.

Late to the Party (Graveyard Shift Again)


Steve Barber wrote:

(I have an "anti-me".)

(I guess it's like a "mini-me", only larger. And more negative. Never had one before. I'm so excited. Really. Not kidding. It's kinda cool.)

Having read the product deposited by this person, I'd say he's more of a 'Bizarro Steve'. He even writes like a bizarro.

Chuck

Here we go again...
I think it might be time for another Star Trek episode featuring one man who is white on the left and black on the right and another guy who is black on the left and white on the right and then they try to kill each other. Simple AND groundbreaking.

And RE: this German-themed pirate, I notice the carefully inserted words "more enlightened" in your hate speech. Fool.

I have been chastised for death threats on this board before, so you, Monsieur Burgersomething, should consider yourself one lucky fellow.

"The ropes on the trees was a hate crime, it would have been justified if blacks burned the whole fucking town down, the whites were just lucky that the black kids had more sense to just punch out some dumb ass little prick."

***

Nothing justifies what the white kids did nor the response from the blacks. Saying hate of any sort, whether pre-emptive or in response, is justified is an excuse of the weak. Sorry, Frank, that one doesn't fly.

Holy shit, Harlan heaven.

Almost LIVE in Cleveland!!
Our Lord and Master, on WCPN, NPR station!! Taped today!!! One hour, uncut!!

http://www.wcpn.org/index.php/WCPN/an/2007/09/21/

Click on "Listen" icon!!

Erik

Ok, one more time, this is not hard: white kids have a tree they sit under, wouldn't let blacks sit under it--this is 2007 folks! Black kids try to sit under it, later there are nooses, reminding one of the bad old days that are still with us. One of the racist kids get beaten up by six black boys, but the kid can go to school the next day, but the evil black boys are tried with attempted murder, an obvious miscarriage of justice; the boys could get many years in jail, which is in essense a minor scrape.

The ropes on the trees was a hate crime, it would have been justified if blacks burned the whole fucking town down, the whites were just lucky that the black kids had more sense to just punch out some dumb ass little prick.

This has nothing to do with Al Sharpton or Jessie oh Jessie. This is a serious injustice. Sure the kids beat up the white boy, but they had probable cause. The crime will not fit the time, but time aint nothin but a technicality.

---------

Castro, "property is theft" is a utopian phrase, first uttered by the anarchists. It is not a reality right now, but a hope for a future where public property trumps private ownership of the means of production, which rightly should be ran by the workers, and with a democratic say.

Nothing to do with HE.

I just wanted to stir the pot a bit and say that tomorrow is our pal Barney Dannelke's birthday.

So find and generally bug the hell outta him. All in good fun of course.

Alex Jay's and DTS' comments regarding justice, etc, ring particularly solid here in the Long Beach area.

A little under a year ago, and less than a mile from our house, three white women (20-21) were attacked on Halloween by twelve African-American youths (13-18). Naturally there are differing accounts as to what transpired that evening, but what is clear is that the three women ended up in the hospital with serious injuries, one of them with permanent brain damage.

Our neighborhood, Bixby Knolls, is a well-integrated upper middle class community. Think "Father Knows Best" with a variety of skin tones and you'll understand.

As the news about the attack came out there was a collective holding of breath as we all recalled LA's Rodney King riots -- not "unrest": Large groups looting and burning buildings -- and the not-so-peripheral damage they did to Long Beach.

Immediately the families of the kids involved began claiming the kids had been set up and were being prosecuted because they were black. The tension grew even more tense. Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed and several black groups refused to get involved, characterizing the assaults as unacceptable regardless of the racial makeup of the participants.

Then the judge made several controversial but Solomon-like decisions. The families screamed, mothers wept on camera, and the city's populace decided that the crime warranted the penalties. No riots. No protests (other than the families and a few supporters). No violence. An awful lot of embarrassed glances. And hopefully a bunch of kids now on their way to a happier life.

The musical AVENUE Q features, amongst the laughs, a song entitled "We're ALL a little bit racist". Far better, says the song, to admit it and move beyond it, and maybe even laugh about it a little, than to allow the ugliness to fester.

Gallows nooses draped over branches the day after a black kid asks -- however humorously (or humorlessly) -- if "blacks can sit there" is not just a childish prank. If the administrator couldn't see the latent racism in those students he/she has no business administering anything regarding students.

Tit does not excuse Tat, but understanding what begat the problem is necessary before too many fingers get pointed at the end result (and, no, I'm not saying it's okay to blame the parents when the child goes on a shooting spree at 40. There are time considerations between tit and tat). If the Bush administration were to astoundingly pull a victory off in Iraq, that victory would not forgive the lies and misrepresentations that led up to it.
_________________________________

Erik! Congratulations on the Cleveland review!
_________________________________

Cris plays an outdoor gig tonight. Rain expected. It's been so dry around these parts we're both hoping it DOES rain, and hard. Yet another reason to wish I was with y'all in Cleveland ... instead of out here in (hopefully) sodden envy.

Burgomeister
Hey, Burgomeister:

I came home recently and saw a moving van parked in front of my house. A bunch of workers had the front door open and were walking out with my furniture. They had the couch and the easy chair and the bed and all my books and the kitchen stuff, and they'd even found my most recent paycheck which I'd not deposited yet and had it inserted into their own account; what's more, they'd also cleared out the pantry and taken all the canned goods.

I said, "Uh, you know, this stuff is mine."

They all started laughing at me for my old-fashioned values. One said, don't you know? We're a charity, and we're going to give this away to folks in third-world countries, who couldn't possibly afford stuff as great as this. We're nonprofit, even if we do take online contributions to fund our activities.

I said, "You know, you're right. Property is theft." And I went back into my house and curled up along the dust bunnies and told the remaining cat (the one who'd hidden, as they'd taken the three others), that he would have to wait a week or so until I next afford to buy him some food.

A-TC

high-sounding piracy
Sir Percy wrote:

:: All of this especially applies to those many thousands of
:: avid readers in developing countries hungry for knowledge and
:: ideas, but who are not, under their economically deprived
:: circumstances, in a position to afford to purchase the source
:: of that knowledge.

Um, how do we KNOW these users are economically deprived?

Why do I suspect the majority of people who use the Burgomeister's services are not overseas, and not economically deprived?

When I've traveled in Third World countries, I've almost invariably encountered rampant copyright and trademark violations -- storefront "recording studios" in the Gambia and Senegal who put whatever mix of tunes you want, no matter which artists, on a single cassette, cheap; obviously substandard sportswear in Estonia with the Nike logo and "Beaverton, Oregon" stitched into the labels. I found a pirated Taiwanese edition of John Fowles's _The French Lieutenant's Woman_ in a used bookstore in Boston many years ago.

If anyone's profiting from the Burgomeister's services in economically deprived areas of the world, it's more likely to be unscrupulous publishers than individual readers.

Civil Rights and Criminal Fights
ALEX JAY: I think you hit the nail on the head in your last line: injustice. I must've missed it in the original story I read, but if the kid has, indeed, been locked up for a year, yeah, that's a case of injustice. And, most likely, fueled by his race and his social standing.
As for imagining all of the things you asked me to imagine, I don't need to: I was one of those quiet, smallish kids who didn't fit in with ANY clique and never tried to run with any particular crowd. After the age ten, because of my neighborhood dynamic, I had friends that were white (french, english, german, irish, etc), black, chicano, polynesian, asian, etc. And growing up in the town I grew up in, I often found myself the minority when surrounded by Latinos looking for a fight, as well as the ocassional black dude who decided I was small enough to kick around. While that isn't anywhere near as tough as growing up black in a racially charged area, I can still imagine the anger that would build up.

That said, what the Jena six did was a crime. No way around it. And while any injustice to ANYone should be addressed, it shouldn't become the latest 'cause celebre, and it shouldn't be compared to the Civil Rights battles of the 60s by Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton (who, as John has pointed out, has a track record of not looking before he leaps).

Jackson and Sharpton have managed to portray this story in the wrong light. I just wish good-intentioned people who want to fight the good fight could see that.

--DTS

Re Alex Jay Berman's comments
I don't call 4 adult males joined by two juvenile males in mobbing up one sixteen year old boy and beating the crap out of him a civil rights struggle in any way, shape or form. It's a bunch of thugs and bullies beating up on someone. That's called a crime.

And the prosecutor in Jena clearly stated he would have charged someone about the nooses if there were any laws about that type of behavior on the books in Louisiana. You can bet your bottom dollar there soon will be. But nothing can be done about that particular incident now, other than to condemn it. And you can't equate that stupid and racist act with actually attacking and physically beating someone else up. The so-called 'Jena Six' don't need defending against anything but their own criminal tendencies, especially not by a race-hater and prejudice-monger like Al Sharpton (anyone care to remember Tawana Brawley?)

disney smut by wally wood
To lighten the mood, here's a link to the latest comic book urban legends article on comicbookresources.com. I think Harlan will get a kick out of the mention of the Wally Wood poster:
goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2007/09/20/comic-book-urban-legends-revealed-121/.
It's the last entry before the comments and the link tot he poster is embedded in the article.

Robert heinlein Archives Online
http://www.heinleinarchives.net/upload/

UC Santa Cruz has placed all of their Heinlein archive online. Yes, it includes correspondence, and yes, several items turn up when you plug "Harlan Ellison" into the search engine.

Just finished a thorough search of Burgomeister's site and there is no Ellison material available for download anywhere I can find. Looks like this is not Harlan's fight.

Allow me to echo Jes' praise of Facebook. I was fairly skeptical about it, but it has been really fun to get to know Jes, Peg, Lori Koonce, Doug Harrison, etc.

GA
Thank you, Brian (splendid name, by the way) for posting the "Laugh Track" history. Two observations: the laugh track for a kid's show called "C.C. and Company" I remember being particularly annoying. I was a little boy and my brother Stephen, eight years older than me, told me about laugh tracks and I was mildly thrilled I had spotted an obvious one. Closer listening revealed that the repetitive sound I was hearing was a tape of chickens clucking!

The other observation is about the late, lamented "Tracey Ullman Show" on Fox. In this "Skit-Com" (James L. Brooks' term) sketch, she played a writer of a show with a young girl as a star and she made an impassioned plea for the laugh track because of her shortcomings as a writer.

To Mark Palko: "The Wild, Wild West" had a lot of great writers and I would like to mention the name of Henry Sharp, who wrote my favorite episode of that show, "The Night of the Feathered Fury", which actually has a cameo by Sharp. When the announce that "Heinrich Scharff", the toymaker is missing, not long after, a door is opened and corpse of Scharff falls out.

Brian Phillips

Nice review....
...in the Cleveland Plain Dealer. First official on actualy paper product review of the film, I believe.....by Harlan's TV critic friend, Mark Dawidziak.

http://www.cleveland.com/entertainment/plaindealer/index.ssf?/base/entertainment-0/1190364572161700.xml&coll=2

I will not be there this evening, so, any reports on the films reception will be most gratefully absorbed!

Erik

Sim and Fantagraphics
Sim isn't published by Fantagraphics, and in fact publicly expresses contempt for The Comics Journal as being an example of the kind of "marxist-feminist-homosexualist" leftist propaganda that he believes is the doom of civilization.

Also, he lives in Canada, and doesn't travel much (from what I understand). So, yes, it would be very surprising if he joined the shooting expedition.

ALAN COIL: Regarding your adjuration to follow proper sentence construction and punctuation: Gee. Don't you know that grammar is dead?

BEN: Um ... why tie Sim into it?

DORMAN: Today I wore all black, as did several hundred of my coworkers, as a (largely ineffectual, but still) show of support for the Jena 6.
Imagine you're black.
Imagine that you had a tree declared by several of the student body to be "whites-only"--and nothing was done.
Imagine that the controversy stirs several assholes to hang nooses on that good ol' good ol' boys (whites-only, of course)' tree.
Think of "Strange Fruit."
(After all, if you were black and poor, that's pretty much what you'd think of FIRST.
Imagine nothing was done at first about the noose-hangers.
Imagine the stresses and tensions which would result.
Imagine you get into a fight at school. You come out on the winning side. And you are charged with attempted murder and assault with a deadly weapon--your own sneaker.
Imagine that the light of reason shone through and your over-the-top criminal charges were vacated--but you remain in prison for almost a year, nevertheless.

Yes; it IS a civil rights struggle.

Some things have to be admitted; some things are dearly desired, true: As a part-time spinmeister and lobbyist, i am angry that no one has had Mychal Bell make a statement from prison acknowledging that what he did was wrong (the fight), but clearly putting forth why the punishment in no way fits the crime.
And, too, I'm angry that the faces of this protest are Al Sharpton and the well-meaning-but-half-cocked Michael Baizen. Hell; they should have Julian Bond out there as the face of this thing.

But the clear fact is that this kid is NOT being punished for what he did; he is being punished for being poor and black. The timeline of the case, all that was done and all that was not done, and the incredibly stupid actions of the district attorney--and his even stupider statements--should evoke the shadows of Bull Halsey and Jim Crow.

And as long as we're talking "should"s, something SHOULD have been done long before things blew up. The noose-hangings, and the de facto declaration of whites-only demarcations should have themselves resulted in punishment. What is at heart a hate crime should have been addressed--maybe, considering the age of the morons in question, not with jail time, but with education, rather than chalking it up to shenanigans, pranks, or that old Geedub fall back, "youthful indiscretions".

Are the kids totally innocent? No; of course not. But the punishment is insanely unjust.
Mychal Bell is no Emmet Till--but at the same time, he's sure as hell no Mumia abu-Jamal.

One other thing we should remember: "Civil Rights" does not mean "black". It can mean Hispanics, or Jews, or Japanese-Americans, or Baha'iists, or Falun Gong devotees, or Amish, or poor folk, or the disabled--and yes; even whites.

And Justice has NO color.

FOR THOSE WHO WOULD DEFEND THE ABUSE OF COPYRIGHT: All I ask is a simple clarification.
Why, to your minds, is intellectual labor any less defensible than physical labor? Why is a writer less deserving of the fruits of his or her labors than a plumber?
And how is it moral to solicit money for holding the words of others when you would deny those others money for their own words?

"Many authors are now offering their latest works freely for download with this very promotional model in mind."

We could go with that for the sake of argument; yet, it SHOULD be the author's CHOICE to use that model. Percy, and others skipping through the same flowerbed, aren't exactly offering the model as a choice. They are, in effect, telling you, "we're going to archive and give out your work for free whether you like it or not, with or without your consent or knowledge. If you find out we're doing so, and you protest, we may then HONOR your request to remove it...but it's up to YOU to find out whether or not we're putting it out there to begin with. We won't pursue any formal approval to post the material"

That's not offering authors a choice. And it's a cheap argument for getting around the technicalities and exploiting anything you can get away with.

I think it can be a good model myself, potentially. But it STILL has to be by consent.

They seek him here
Dear Board subscribers (and Mr Ellison),

I am the site-owner of The Burgomeister's Books.

I shall just briefly take up Steven Barber's proposal that I state my rationale here on the board. I won't tarry to read responses because my time is too precious to waste in fruitless dispute. This will be my second (and last) visit here.

Before I begin, may I just say that (1) This should not be taken as a capitulation; and (2) Having amicably agreed with Mr Barber to remove certain defamatory statements regarding his person from my "THIEVES" page, I will be glad to do the same with respect to those directed at Mr Ellison, should he request it.

What follows is a quote from an email I sent Steven yesterday, and really says everything I wish to say:

My take on the whole question is that _lending_ my personal archival copies of modern classics to visitors does no harm to the owners of the copyrights.

Quite the contrary. It is the current thinking among many more enlightened authors and publishers that free accessibility of their works can promote paper sales, rather than the reverse. Many authors are now offering their latest works freely for download with this very promotional model in mind.

So, I think that most publishers nowadays are as likely as not to look relatively benignly upon what my site is doing. I have certainly had neither communication nor complaint from authors or publishers hitherto, and the site has been in operation for almost a year now.

But I'm not trying to convert you to my cause. The cause is, however, eminently vindicated by the (just) popularity of the Burgomeister's Books.

All of this especially applies to those many thousands of avid readers in developing countries hungry for knowledge and ideas, but who are not, under their economically deprived circumstances, in a position to afford to purchase the source of that knowledge.

It is for them, above all, that the site exists, and will continue to exist.

Regards,

The Burgomeister.

Burgomeister

Interesting. Never even mentioned Harlan Ellison to Burgomeister in relation to my concern about his copyright issues.

But it do offer insights into his mentality and adds a little to my arsenal versus his provider. Thanks for the link. I think this may, just now, become "official" where the provider is concerned.

Harlan is not involved with this in any way shape or form. and will not be. As I stated days ago, I'm doing this strictly on my own.

apologies for post 2
Just John,

No Problem. Allow me to explain further. I found that page when perusing the site. Although there is the (rude and insulting) letter as you posted previously, there appears to be NONE of *Harlan's copyrighted works* actually posted on the site.

Harlan has made it clear that unless copyrighted works are posted, he does not intend not engage this person.

Your original post stated his work was being stolen and implied Harlan needed to address it. I'm merely clarifying that there is no apparent theft, and Harlan can choose to act or not as he pleases.

Now, having violated a rule for the first time I can recall, I'll lurk for the next couple of days...

Best,
Peg

Sorry
This link should work. I don't know where I got the first one. I'm not too computer literate, unfortunately.

http://burgomeister.mine.nu/thieves.htm

BELAY THAT! or Much ado about insults??
Just John,

I took a look at the tiny url and got an error message (below).

However, to clarify, having perused the site, non of Harlan Ellison's works are actually posted. The diatribes you mention are there. So, this person is going "nyah nyah nyah nyah" and being somewhat rude, but doesn't appear to have actually violated a copyright.

Cheers
PEg
Error:
The file you requested is not here
(which doesn't necessarily mean it's really not here...)

You are most likely seeing this page due to a mis-configured character set in your browser.

For accented characters on the index pages and in certain filenames to display and load correctly - as in "John Le Carré" - your character encoding should be set to "US ASCII". In most browsers, such as Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Opera, this setting will be found under the View menu.

Alternatively, if the directory name has changed, try reloading the page and/or clearing your cache.

We shall be returning to the Burgomeister's Books in 30 seconds...

Happy browsing on my shelves!

--The Burgomeister

Harlan's work is being stolen on Burgoemister's site now
Sorry for the second post in less than 24 hours, but I thought Harlan should know that the Burgomeister has now posted a link to his works as well: http://tinyurl.com/247xls

I used TinyURL to shrink down the web address, as it was quite long. In addition, he has written the open, insulting and taunting letter below. I'm sorry to drop this on your doorstep Harlan, but this little prick needs his ass handed to him (or her!). If I had the faintest idea how to do it, I would.

"The Thieves of Liberty


This sad, ageing hack and his small coterie of sycophants are scheming to "take down" the Burgomeister's Books for alleged copyright infringement. Quite how they expect to accomplish it is beyond me.

One Stephen Barber, of Harlequin's clique, contacted the abuse section of my hosting provider, but nothing much came of that, as you can see. Abuse of what? Do feel free to mail our Stevie your opinion, or just to flame the meddlesome prick.

Round One to the B.

"They seek him here, they seek him there, those dorkis seek him everywhere..."

(Sink me, the lady is a poet)

And these losers make me laugh.

But their thievery is another matter. Their thieving of our freedoms must be resisted, must be fought. The Burgomeister is doing his small part to see that it is. Join me.

I have all the time in the world to organise La Résistance. I have no other commitments - I can fight them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, all on my own. I must admit I am beginning to relish the prospect. Such an unfair contest, though - tragically impaired as they are by their lobotomies.

There are so many ways to elude them among the network shadows - most trivial, some a little more challenging. But I'm a hacker.

One thing is certain: they will never locate _me_ personally. I am well outside that little fascist parish they call the U.S.A.

Stateless, status-less; almost invisible even among my own. If they managed to come up with a name (or two), I can guarantee it won't be the one I was born with. No account I hold is ever in a land where I am domiciled.

And no-one has a forwarding address.

So, do your worst, fuckos. I'm still here. Still laughing. Still handing out the books. I shan't let the readers down.



UPDATE 17.9.07

Another offshore server (China)


UPDATE 18.9.07

Two more offshore servers (Venezuela - Land of the truly Free, and real Home of the Brave - ¡Viva Chavez!)


UPDATE 19.9.07

And (maybe) last, but not least: a backup-backup server in good old dependable NIUE...

Game, Set, and Match to the B., I think.

Faithful reader, if you sympathise with the Cause as outlined above, please donate to help maintain these new hosts. They were set up with you in mind, and nobody else. Your assistance has never been more urgently needed.



And you, Harlequin Ellis, you scrofulous, sagging, sick Rattus Norvegicus -

UP YOURS
(you insult even my dog)"

Mark Spieller

Fans of Mission Impossible and 60’s television in general should definitely check out Patrick White’s well-researched Complete "Mission: Impossible" Dossier. Pay close attention to the Desilu (Star Trek, the Untouchables) /Paramount sections. It’s another repeat of that old, tragic story that goes back at least to Keaton and MGM. A small team dazzles everyone with their innovative work. A big studio comes along, picks them up and systematically smothers anything good or creative.

ps The Playdon script I was watching was on the Wild, Wild West -- another show that attracted some very good writers and assorted talent.

Wyatt has been very patient, I bet not for long.

---------

Sun runs through my veins but shade shoots out from my eyes.

I'm growing weary of all this pseudonymic hoopla.

Living In The Land of the Young
The comments of "Huh?" should come as no surprise considering that we live in a society where nearly every product is marketed to the "young". I certainly don't begrudge any person the right to voice an opinion (or as Harlan would say, "an informed opinion"), but I am deeply discouraged that our country, with all its wonders, still falls behind the rest of the world in its respect for its elders.

Entropy is, as George Carlin would say, "a good thing", but until the world finally does unravel, shouldn't we seek to find wisdom in the chaos? And where does wisdom come from? Those "old folks" who imagined, created, succeeded, failed & persevered? Where would we be had those individuals not made the journey so that we can learn & grow, and paved the way for us to make the journey ourselves?

I, for one, would like to go into the abyss with as much knowledge & wisdom as my brain can hold? I may not remember it all, but it hasn't stopped me from trying.

sorry for the 2nd
Correction: PEBBLES FLINTSTONE..

to peebles flintstone
Alternate views on copyright? Like alternate views on speeding?
Copyright exists to ensure that authors (me, HE, etc.) recieve payment for our labors either directly or from our agents (publishers) and to prevent theft of our property without compensation. If you don't like it, write a letter to your Congressman. Otherwise, if you steal from myself or any other author (or their estate) within the term of the copyright (73 years from original publication if memory serves); you are liable to pay me back royalties and are liable for damages if a court so decides.
Also, to all trolls, please have the common courtesy to use your own name. Please stop trashing the reps of well-known fictional characters.

Oops, props to Ezra, not Steve. Sorry.

To Steve Evil

My god, a useful post. Something with substance and interest. Something that doesn't call other people idiots or douchebags for holding a minority opinion about copyright. Something that doesn't make sneering generalizations about large chunks of our population's reading habits or social attitudes. Or my favorite, something that doesn't ask for credit for not talking about someone else's post while talking about it.

You're a sapphire in the weeds. Cool on you.

A Public Service Announcement
Folks

Critics of the Internet (including you know who) inevitably point out the monstrous amount of garbage that spews forth without considering Sturgeon's Law.

What differentiates the Internet from, say, TV, is that there are some really interesting places, if you look.

Different points of view?

www.atimes.com/atimes/
news.bbc.co.uk/
english.aljazeera.net/
scoop.agonist.org/

Feed your head?

www.bookfinder.com/
hubblesite.org/
scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/
www.richarddawkins.net/
saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm
ciclops.org/
www.nybooks.com/
www.ntgateway.com/
www.thecephalopodpage.org/
marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html

Feed your soul?

www.cdroots.com/
www.dhrupad.org/
www.arkivmusic.com/classical/main.jsp
www.waysidemusic.com/
electro-music.com/
www.psychevanhetfolk.homestead.com/
www.raga.com/
www.johncoulthart.com/feuilleton/
www.coudal.com/moom/
www.braunarts.com/ligeti/main.html

Want a really cool search engine so you don't have to subsidize Google who assist the Red Fascists in China with enslaving their own people (and who would doubtless assist our own govt with enslaving us if there was a percentage in it)?

www.kartoo.com/

Got a fungus of indeterminate origin in a sensitive spot?

www.webmd.com/

Want to spend some time in the Absolute Elsewhere?

www.zompist.com/kit.html
www.raptureready.com/
objectiveministries.org/creation/projectpterosaur.html
www.geocities.com/sarabhanga/bhang.html

There's more, there's always more...

CAUTION!!!!!!!!
Whatever you do Steve Barber, do not, repeat do not, under any circumstances conceivable to even the most fecund imagination of any human who lives or has ever lived, meet up with the 'anti-Steve Barber'.

The explosion that will result from the juxtaposition of you with your exact opposite could possibly destroy the very planet upon which we depend, dwarfing even the explosion that an equal mass of matter and anti-matter coming together would cause!

Gosh...
(I have an "anti-me".)

(I guess it's like a "mini-me", only larger. And more negative. Never had one before. I'm so excited. Really. Not kidding. It's kinda cool.)



And now, for a phrase I wasn't ever expecting to use: "Gosh. Wish I were going to be in Cleveland tomorrow night."

(Disclaimer: No disparagement to Cleveland intended. It's a nice place, I know. It's just, when I use the phrase "wish I were going to be in...", it's usually followed by "New York", "Vegas" or "Monte Carlo".)

You all are going to love the movie and your time spent with da man o' the hour, and I'm a little jealous.



(Lastly, an aside to "Huh/anti-me": if I miswrote regarding your attitude towards Burgo, I apologize. The rest of my little diatribe stands, but you are right in pointing out that nobody's perfect, even us parentishly- and grandparentishly-aged.)


(And remember: Cleveland Rocks, but LA rolls.)

Dear Huh:
Harlan once wrote about attending a "swim-in" where blacks were protesting their exclusion from a certain swimming pool. To use his words, he was there "to aid and abet" the protest. He was not only physically attacked by whites, but by blacks who mistakenly thought that he was against them. I believe he talked about having his rib cage sprung with a chain. Can you, Huh, even conceive putting yourself on the line for a cause like that... huh?

the usual sundry


ALEX:

You're not a Miskatonic grad? Shoot, I was certain. . . .



Of course the big discussion of reading got rolling yesterday AFTER my post of the day, so I missed the crest of it.

But despite the news stories last month about how one in four Americans didn't read a single book last year, and those that did read an average of only 7 (man, I'm shifting the median for a helluva lot of mah fellow citizens with my 100-plus books a year!) . . . I'm dubious about the hue and cry concerning the "death of print" because I'm not convinced things are necessarily worse than they used to be.

Reading was always a semi-elite activity. If you go back and check what people were reading 50 or 100 years ago, most of them were probably reading trash by long-forgotten authors and the penny dreadfuls and police dailies.

Poe and Verne and Welles and Hemingway just might sell more these days than they did most years of their active writing lives.

Cleveland here we come!
So I'll finally get to see Unca Harlan live. Woo-hoo! Remembering well what he said about fandom on the "Prisoners of Gravity" show back in 1992, I will probably keep my mouth shut to avoid saying something dumb. I'll be the long haired punk dressed entirely in black for the morbidly curious.

Keep Rockin'!

-Steve E.

P.S. To add my own two cent fuel to the fire, I have to admit that the current generation - MY generation - is every bit as self centred and entitled as you say we are. I see it in every one I talk to, my peers, my friends, my brothers, even myself when I'm not careful. (I've been called on it a couple times over on the boards). I won't post any indignat defences: you're absolutely right and we're guitly as charged.

I wouldn't sit next to Alex if I were anyone...

Welcome back to Cleveland, Harlan..
...and I hope to see many of you tomorrow evening. I'll be the guy in the Transylvania University shit.

Hello Diane Bartels,
I'm sorry about Hoss and Ira. They had a good friend in you. I hope you feel better today and tomorrow and the tomorrow after that and on and on until you can think of them and smile without such a sharp stab of loss.
Truly,
Cindy

Talking to a brick wall
In my past lives, I have managed comic book/science fiction bookstores on Hollywood blvd, been a security guard at a Energy Think Tank at Stanford and taught at both a middle school in San Diego and Hollywood High school, so I have had plenty of experience talking to people whose smugness or Little Orphan Annie eyeballs told me that the words word bounces of their noggin like ping pong balls off a brick wall.

These folks appparently have welpt most of the people we chat with on the internet. They are devouted to their view or at least a view that attracts them the most attention. They are the "shit disturbers" as my father would term them, who say things merely to say something at parties or functions so they can later say they have everyone's attention. Now, instead of a small party, where once out sight they drift out of our memory, they are cached forever and can renew their "I farted" notoriety wherever they their decide to visit. It is their sad way to getting our attention and there is little to do but ignore them, denying them one more place for them to go.

None of this of course an original thought and many of our regulars have all ready said as much, but it is ilk of this sort that does make kids in my 2 cents plain on the matter.

Mission: Impossible was one of my favorite shows and being a credit reader at the end of programs/movies I noticed the name Paul Playdon's name on credits as writer and Story Editor and it seemed amazing that so many episodes seemed to be the work of one person. I later noticed that a great deal of my favotite programs were the work of a handful of writers that was responsible for so much of my young viewing time, between the comic books, paperback originals, and things found in the family library.

A list would be interesting to see how many writer/programs are shared touchstones for those here in the Pavillion.

On a lighter note-- that of historical interest as it relates to the Works of Ellison-- I commend your attention to a new dlide show recently poted at _Slate_. It's a short history of the infamous _laugh track_, that lingering technological wonder of the late 20th century, where the laughs of situation comedies were sweetened, or simply slathered on like mustard on sauerkraut, to enhance the viewing experience of well-processed comedy. (I think Aldous Huxley described it in _Brave New World_.) There's no mention of Harlan's story "Laugh Track," but it's worth reading anyway, if only to watch a magnificent triple-take by Jack Benny.

http://www.slate.com/id/2174189/nav/tap1/


On another issue... I want credit for ignoring Huh? completely. Took about a second to see that the guy wanted attention. And I got better things to do than work up an eloquent insult that'll sail past his hairline and evaporate into the Etherwebs.

Hey all
I'm prompted to answer Peggy's question concerning Facebook et al; I find myself in accordance. This whole MySpace/Bebo/Facebook thing, I've often thought, is a bottomless pit of trivial time-wasting, a Pokemon-style catch-'em-all hoarding of virtual phantoms. But it's actually been a really useful tool to find old friends and maintain contact with them; and also to make interesting, intelligent new friends (from this board alone, there's Steve B., Peggy and Mark Goldberg, for instance); the two lynchpins that make it worthwhile.
And as for Mr. Huh... I can add nothing that hasn't been more excellently elucidated by other Webderlanders.
Hope people have been having a great time in Cleveland!
Best,
Jes

Forgotten Writers
Harlan,

I was just watching a typically solid script from the reliable Paul Playdon and it got me thinking about all the largely forgotten writers and story editors who made so many hours of great television. I was wondering if you could tell us who on that list you think deserves more recognition.

I’m not talking about the Golden Age giants like Serling or Chayefsky or contemporary stars like Whedon – they’ve gotten their credit – or about television writers like Sturgeon (or yourself) who earned their reputations in print. I’m talking about writers like Playdon who produced substantial bodies of fine work and don’t even merit a lousy Wikipedia entry.

Who would you single out?

Have a great weekend.

Mark

Diane Bartels

Sweetness is the blossom you water with your care.
It's nice to hear from you.

Rest easy and sound,
Paul

just about everything
most of this will probably have little or no meaning to any but me yet here i am at my sister's house too late at night on a morning when i have to be up early and ive been browsing this web site looking for i know not what like a wee morning fridge raid when i want a pudding but have only cheese. i am saddened by all the disharmony here and in the unweb world that i have seen and read and felt lately. Harlan, i admire and salute your stance against any who would steal another's work product whether a writer's or a brick layer's. I am glad you have fought this find so well; I know I have not the courage or stamina for such intense battles any longer. but is it always so acrimonious and bitter? And in looking at some of the other forums on this site tonight, I read Rich's tribute to Homer and it made me cry. I just put my cat to sleep three weeks ago - Hoss - and I still hug the spot on the pillow where he slept. He was 18, and could no longer walk. So as the vet said, it was for the best,but that doesn't make it easier. Rich, obviously, Homer was a very good dog. And then I read Frank's piece from last year on all the civilian deaths in Iraq, which are not reported in our popular media. My God, what is our country doing and how shall we ever atone? And death is just heavy on my mind tonight, because I miss my parents, because of the loss of Harlan's friend Joe (my sympathy to you Harlan and the family), Robert Jordan's death Sunday (such good stories). I am know 47 too Adam Troy, and I feel like a monumental old fart, though not different from the 18 year old I once was. And for some reason, my friend Ira is much on my mind now. He passed away twelve years ago, suddenly and mysteriously. He wasn't my "best friend" nor had I known him a long time. But he was the best. Always a gentleman, always kind and interesting and gently spoken. He twice gave me rides from the far North Burbs the the far South Burbs where I lived and would not even take money for gas. Both times he said, I did you a favor, one day you'll do me one. It makes me sad and mad that I never got that chance. There were meals I wanted to eat with him, talks I wanted to have, cars I wanted to go for rides in with him. And I have neither a question or an answer for my thought tonight. Just thought I'd share with some folks who I know are literate and kind hearted and thoughtful. Good night all here and Ira in the ether.

Huh, The Jena 6, Huh, and Libraries
Someone once said, approximately, that to live is to war with trolls. "Huh" is an example of such. Josh hit the nail on the head with his response.

The Urban Legends Reference Page, aka snopes, has this to say about the facts and rumors of the situation in Jena, LA:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/jena6.asp

Harlan: What is your opinion on the creation and use of electronic libraries? Who would run them, how would they be managed, how would the writers get paid, and a few thousand other details would need to be worked out for it to really work like the traditional brick and mortar buildings we have now. If you are not well informed enough to have an opinion, can you direct me at someone who is? I know that many decent people frequent their public libraries often instead of buying the books they read. (David Loftus, for example, may be one of them.) How does the writer get paid for such use, other than the straight up sale of the book to the library? Would an electronic version of the same need to follow similar rules, if not the exact same rules? What would constitute the return of a book to the electronic library? How can copying be prevented? As a technology person I know there are ways to make this happen, but they all cost many big shiny nickles and require a lot of tweaking to work with all of the various levels and facets of technology people use to connect to the internet. And the issue of getting the general public to accept such a system is an entirely different matter. But it is doable! Dr. Asimov said so after all.

I am PROUD to be a member of the "Steve" compliment, and the opposite of "anti-Steve" and all like him. We're an eclectic bunch, but we do all know how to read, even the ones named Frank.

Historic events -- sublime, and not so
ALL: Since the March on Montgomery came up in recent posts, I thought this question might be timely. The Rev. Jesse Jackson recently compared the "Jena six" event (see the link below) to several civil rights milestones. Is it me, or are Jackson and all of the kids (who seem to be desperately looking for a good cause) barking up the wrong tree (no pun intended). I mean, what the hell does a criminal act have to do with the Civil Rights struggle? What say all you congnizant folks who post on this here site from time to time? --DTS (link follows)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070919/ap_on_re_us/school_fight

The "Huh" controversy proves something that should be obvious to canny observers of American pop culture. Simply put: the MTV generation is the Bush adminustration.

They both are criminally self-centered.

They both are indifferent to laws and codes.

They both willfully blind themselves to ethical standards.

They both are materialistic to the point of nausea and promote theft as an art, in the case of the former, or as a virtue, in the case of the latter.

And they both have no regard for the English language.

So, Mr. Huh, I suppose we should properly refer to you by your real name. Eh, Mr. Bush?

Steve Dooner

PS. Harlan, please forgive the profanity.

Ignorant sacks like Huh are tiresome. Arguing with them lends them a credibility they simply do not have (Welcome to the internet). If the kid is committed to being an arrogant, know-nothing waste of flesh and electricity, let him. His idiotic comment about Chavez alone marks him as hostile, dull-witted, and extremely unlikely to actually give any thought to the eloquent comments being fired in his direction.

You will not change him, and there's no point in punishing him. He has to live in his own sack, and that strikes me as punishment enough. Defending the reputation of someone like Harlan to someone like this only demeans Harlan and everyone else here.

Kid, I'll see your "huh," and raise it one "whatever."

To both HUH and Frank: There's an ESL class waiting for both of you at your local community college.

correction
That should have been "harm's" way.

I apologize for the second post, but it kills me to let a typo like that slip by without acknowledgement.

To Anti-Steve:
You write:

"A lot of people marched with King. I'm not saying it wasn't worth while, but Harlan didn't make things happen. He was there when things happened. There's a difference."

But the people who marched with King were putting their bodies on the line. They were in harms way in a big way. Being there made things happen. Being there was the happening.

Huh, take that back; Harlan once laid on hands and cured my herpes.

Huh, I hear mama calling, better go get supper before you get a whoopin.

Baby Bear.

-----------

Rob, ever hear of American Exceptionalism? The Golden City On A Hill? When Ronald Reagan gets put on the dollar you will thank me.

---------------

The atlas is rage, the extended fist is the first answer.

brief
in 09/24/2007 new yorker, brief mention of Harlan, in passing, in letter about william hamling. Susan- can send page if you'd like it. also, cardiac tests went swimmingly. jz

This might be a little advanced for the anonymous poster who thinks a quick switch of the nom de plume would fool anyone except his closest brain buddies:

WORDS THAT SHOULD BE BANNED:
http://www.abc.net.au/melbourne/stories/s1540950.htm

I flashed a little red from embarrassment as I scrolled through the list; I've used some of those words most of my life! Time for a change!

Perhaps the whatsit who posted here earlier can emerge from the PWNAGE (a word (s)he should understand) visited on him by The Man Himself and, oh I don't know, learn something.

**

By the way, did anyone wake up this morning, turn on a mid morning news show, and wonder if it was 1994 all over again? Just wondering.

"Talk about illeteracy!"

Ha! Thanks for the laugh, Anti Steve Barber of Earth X.

By the by, if you're going to launch a word war with this crowd, you really, really, really need to spell check before you hit Send Message.

You also might want to consider using your real name, it'll buy you back some of the respect you've lost in other ways.

Finally, I get the feeling that you haven't actually read any of Harlan's stories, novels, screenplays or essays. If I'm wrong, I apologize. If I am right (and seeing as this is his home on the web), maybe it might be something to consider. You'll have a better idea who you're arguing with, and what the hell, you might actually enjoy the stories.

"2) Stealing.

Stealing is something to be proud of. You champion someone -- Burgo -- who steals intellectual property and flips off the writer with the attitude that "it's all free"."

No sir,

As the anti-you, I mustdraw your attention to my first post where I said he wasn't a nice guy, not a smart guy nor a hard working guy. I am not defending him. I am with you guys on this. Talk about illeteracy!

My issue was on the fact that it was automatically assumed the guy was youth. And that there needed to be a rant attacking the youth of today attached to a rant about the Burgoman.

It's age-ism. If Harlan had said it must be a woman, or must be black, or must be a muslim.... there'd be an issue. But its somehow safe to assume he must be under 30. That's somehow fair.

"The rhetoric hasn't changed one iota, not a smidge, in the last hundred years, but each generation maintains that the previous generation(s) "is/are out of touch and couldn't know what the younger folks know"."

And why can't we reverse your sentence? Each generation maintains the next is a bunch of illiterate theives who don't get good grades in history classes.... huh? huh? huh?

Rhetoric, rhetoric, rhetoric...

====================
Adam-Troy Castro,

A lot of people marched with King. I'm not saying it wasn't worth while, but Harlan didn't make things happen. He was there when things happened. There's a difference.

""He got on the internet and mocked his betters for being old."

yes, becuase this is literally the only thing I do. No more, no less.

Note to Huh
Hey, Huh,

I'd like you to imagine something.

I know it's difficult. Empathy is hard work, and it requires a mind capable of recognizing that it doesn't already know everything. But try.

Imagine that you've lived a long and full life, most of it beyond you now, but nevertheless a life filled with adventure and accomplishment and joy and epiphanies and a few over-the-top embarrassments but nevertheless a LIFE, filled with battles won and causes championed and friends embraced.

Now imagine that you're nearing the end of this life, perhaps not edging over the finish line or even within sight of it but nevertheless close enough to know that it's far closer to you now than your starting point. You may still be remarkable, but because flesh is mortal, you are not in every way what you once were.

Now imagine somebody deriding everything you've done, everything you've learned, as impossibly mired in the dim past, and calling you grandpa.

I am leaving middle age, myself, in a couple of years, and I have already experienced this type of asininity of teens and twentysomethings who feel that anything not within their immediate, and miniscule, frame of reference laughable largely because it hasn't happened to them. It irritates me to hear people who should know better saying that the cultural signposts of my life are insignificant because they did not happen to them. It irritates me further when I see the overwhelming sense of entitlement radiated by many -- though you're correct, not all -- of those weaned not even on television, but on the remote control, who happily proclaim that they don't need to know anything, they don't need to pay for anything, and that they don't need to reflect on anything; like the cool young co-workers who bragged to me, a few years ago, that they had no heroes and didn't believe in anything, or the one who sniggered when an eighty-year-old of my acquaintance mentioned his experiences fighting in World War Two, or the one who told me that voting is for old people, or the lady host of a certain major television talk show who announced just yesterday that she doesn't care whether the Earth is flat or not because it has nothing to do with her.

(Think about that. The woman brags that she doesn't know whether the Earth is flat, and that she doesn't think it matters. And we pay her obscene amounts of money to talk to housewives in the morning. This is our culture. This is what we've become. Do you honestly BLAME Harlan for acting like a grumpy old turd saying that things have gone to hell?)

We both know there are exceptions. We have both met a number. I have a young friend in his twenties who gives me hope for the future; I know another in his teens. That's not the point.

I am 47. I have left youth but I'm not all that far removed from it.

Now imagine how much more Harlan feels what I've been feeling, about the not careless but downright DETERMINED selfishness we see from so many coming after us -- selfishness that is proud of being what it is, and is defined by your apparent belief that Harlan will find it withering when you call him Grandpa.

Lemme tell you something. Laugh at Harlan's trumpeting of his accomplishments all you want. Declare them in the dead past all you want. When he does move on -- and may that be happy decades from now -- HIS obituaries will indeed say that he marched with King, that he fought for the Equal Rights Amendment, that he taught generations who came after him, that he wrote stories that touched people to the bottom of their souls, that he stunned people with both his heights of generosity and his depths of crankiness. Yes, these things have been mentioned often, not infrequently by Harlan himself. A false modesty is not among his virtues. (Like his late friend Isaac Asimov, Harlan enjoys talking about himself, but that's a writer's disease; spend enough hours staring at blank paper and you tend to vent when you're around people.) But those things will be mentioned again, when the time comes. The point is, people get obituaries like that by making a difference, one way or the other.

When you die, and again, may that be decades from now, how will your epitaph read?

"He got on the internet and mocked his betters for being old."

I don't know whether you're seven or seventy, but based on the evidence you have provided, that is purty much it.

* * *

Meanwhile, if *I* die, and the item referenced by the link below carries me into the ground, I will rise from the Earth one HELL of a sheepish zombie:

http://trekmovie.com/2007/09/14/a-good-day-to-die-star-trek-boldly-going-into-funerals/

Okay, I giggle
I really do. That, and sometimes smile condescendingly.

Huh. (Ummm. Interesting moniker.)

When I was a young man, maybe 20 or 21, attending college and full of myself and my accomplishments, I had an overachieving father who kept me in line with a proper perspective on who I was and what I could do.

When I recall my own arrogance (of that time -- I have a different kind of arrogance these days) I have to smile. Or giggle. Because I'm reminded of it every time we have an anonymous "hip and yonger" person enter the fray, pronouncing themselves as final arbiter and then denouncing something or someone -- usually Harlan -- as out of touch because they are "older". (*giggle*)

These anonymous posters think older people don't "get it". They think we -- anyone over 30 -- don't understand the world or what is important in life.

The rhetoric hasn't changed one iota, not a smidge, in the last hundred years, but each generation maintains that the previous generation(s) "is/are out of touch and couldn't know what the younger folks know".

Oh, woe is me, you is just so learned and worldly.

I heard it in the sixties from my older sister. I heard it in the seventies from myself. In the eighties those who hadn't learned from us repeated the "old man" (not to me) and "don't get it" refrain time and time again. And in the nineties. And, *ahem*, now. ...*yawn*.

So I have to giggle. Or smile. Nothing really changes, except that stunning moment of realization when -- despite the trevails you have endured at the hands of your Ignorant of the World elders -- at the ripe ages of the mid-twenties or younger you discover that you really aren't in the know, and by the time you figure that out you're amongst us in the "aged and out-of-touch" class. Ironic, ain't it.

But you're (seemingly) not there yet.

Yes. Nothing before you matters, and no one older can know what you know. (*snort* Oops, forgive me.)

Your words and phrases betray you as a certain age group. Sorry, they do, Huh. Your mispellings, your tone and your thinking ALSO label you with a certain age. But you don't "get" that. Or, and we'll coin a new text acronym for you, YDGT. No getting around it. Sorry. You are what you think (and say out loud).

To whit:

1) Illiteracy is something to be proud of.

Texting and television are making us progressively more illiterate. UKWIM? OMFG? Ur 2 close 2 no, tho. You seem to feel that we of the unwashed ages don't understand that, but really, who do you think invented texting? Not some fifteen year old kid surfing the net on their computer. (Um, and about that internet you're constantly telling us we don't get... we did that too.)

Where were we. Oh, yes:

2) Stealing.

Stealing is something to be proud of. You champion someone -- Burgo -- who steals intellectual property and flips off the writer with the attitude that "it's all free".

And

3) Ignorance of the past...

...is something to be proud of. You dismiss the contribution of not only Harlan Ellison but the efforts of millions of other people who have made this society a little more tolerant and a little more free. Their names are not in the history books either. (If you read those books you'd actually note that there's room for only a handful of bios == but they DO mention and entire movement.)

So, by virtue of your own words and posts, you seem to suggest that you value illiteracy, stealing and ignorance. (Not making this up.) I cannot believe this is truly the case, but it is the reasonable conclusion based upon your own commentary. Harlan "doesn't get it" (or any of us oldsters), Burgomeister's theft is legitimate, and if a name isn't in the history books it's irrelevant.

Your own words convey this about you.

Mark Twain -- he's a writer who was, by all evidence, pretty savvy and has his name in the history books -- once remarked something to the effect that "There are basically two types of people. People who accomplish things, and people who claim to have accomplished things. The first group is less crowded".

In other words, don't be so quick to dismiss something you demonstrate very little knowledge of. I will admit that at your (apparent) age I probably thought a bit like you -- but, as noted above, had an old man willing and quite able to tamp me down. I may be among those you dismiss (not old, but at 30 plus half I'm getting there). But don't mistake being "in" on popular culture is any replacement for truly understanding things around you.

Another famous writer, George Santayana (a Spaniard, btw, look him up), once wrote "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

Listen to your predecessors, they may actually know something you do not, and you may know less than you think you do.

Anyone out there who has doubts about Harlan Ellison's place in the literary history of this country or about his "legacy" need only show up here in Cleveland this Friday night. Come on down and feel the LUV!

Hoohah, "Huh."

a gen x'er speaks up for the pre-Boomers (not that they need it)
Harlan may not be in the history books, but for those of us who fought for the ERA (this 8 year old marched at the SC State Capitol carrying a pro-ratify sign at a NOW rally), think that all workers (and men) deserve some dignity and protection, and use and love the written word and its power; Harlan Ellison is a righteous bastard whom I am proud to know however slightly and wish to have in my corner during whatever shitstorm the idiots start next. HE's credentials are lengthy and he requires not me to toot his own horn.
Concerning the permanance of the written word, I'm probably not going to have any kids but as long as either of my 2 books stay in print or stay on a bookshelf, I'll be around. If not immortal then I'll outlast my alotted "3 score and 10" at least. The between the war generation did most of the groundwork in setting up the fight for Civil Rights, stood up to McCarthy and the Birchnuts (remember the stink over Howl?), and helped inspired the Yippies and Hippies and today's activists too. I'm proud of my writing, I'm proud of my activism and political activity and I'm proud to know Harlan. Harlan's real complaint with web piracy isn't a generational one; it's basically a criminal one. When you post copyrighted material online or otherwise bypass the author and publisher, you steal money from them. Bootleg records back in the 70s did the same thing, but now the material is more widely available. I don't think Harlan is opposed to the Gutenberg Project as it aims to "save" public domain material from being forgotten and passing into obivilion.

Sorry for the length.
Tally

http://seattlest.com/2007/09/16/cops_shut_down.php

Does anybody know if Dave Sim was present at this "shootout"? I wouldn't be overly surprised.

(Then again, the concept of Dave Sim armed with a magnum is an absolutely horrifying one...)

Erik: nice review in Variety, and yes, "kvell" is certainly an appropriate term for what you are feeling. Mazel Tov.

Peg: I am fairly circumspect in my dealings on the Internet. I frequent this board and one or two others but rarely post or interact with members outside Webderland. As you know, I have been using Facebook as a tool for social interactions, but to date it has been largely confined to people I met through this board. My own opinion is that we have a fairly special group that frequent this board and whom I enjoy interacting with. Outside of this little enclave, well there is a lot of assholes out there.

Speaking of which, I have to question what Huh is trying to do. This has been described as Harlan's breakfast nook, would you enter someone else's house and be completely disrespectful? You comments on Harlan's place in American culture are laughable. He is secure in his place in history and has no need to defend it against anyone, let alone a person whose use of grammar and punctuation is at the second grade level, at best.

To paraphrase Harlan, you, sirrah, are not entitled to your own opinion if it is uninformed. Unless you are able to have an informed, intelligent discussion, please go away.

Thank you,

Mark

Don't get me started....
I embrace my old-farthood, frankly. I've earned it. Doesn't stop me from listening to Modest Mouse, or Fallout Boy, or the Chemical Brothers any more than being a KID-GET-OFF-MY-LAWN

Huh---

Let me offer you some good advice. Learn proper sentence construction and the usage of punctuation. People will respect your message more if you can deliver it in the proper manner.

Grandpa,

you just automatically assumed it was a punk kid. which made no sense. like everything that is bad in the world is the fault of the youth. actually in all your law suit dealings and law suit dealings of your peers, how many have actully been people under 30?

every generation has bad people, such as yourself, and good people. every generation has its faults.

I didn't say you didn't do volunteer work. I just said in general your generation, and the folks between you and I are more responsible for whats wrong with the world. By default as you've been running the show up till now.

As a Hispanic I ask of you not to think of yourself as monumental towards what Chavez accomplished.

If youre the great civil rights activist and such an important guy in American history, why are not a bigger figure in American cutlure? Why don't the history books exalt your wonders? Some conspiracy no doubt. Probably a conspiracy started by GenXers.

Harlan X, Dr Harlan.... wow, what a man. America's youth owes you big. Without you we'd have no liberty, no justice, no American way.

Ebooks and "permanance"
Print dead? Not in my lifetime, not in yours, and probably not during the lives of my children and grandchildren. A particular printed book more likely to have a long life than a particular digital file? You betcha. Shit happens to computers and other electronic toys? You betcha cubed.

That said, however...

It was appropriate that FinderDoug used Gentleman Junkie as an example when he referred to a copy fresh off the shelf, ready to read, and requiring no batteries or machines of any sort to serve its purpose. And he's absolutely dead on target in his comment. But right now, there's one thing involving Gentleman Junkie that none of us can do -- none of us can walk into a Barnes and Noble and buy a brand new copy. None of us can purchase a fresh new paperback or hardcover of that book in a way that drops a few farthings into the pockets of Harlan and his publisher. That's because it's out of print. You can pay for used copies sight unseen on Amazon or eBay, or you can with luck find a copy in a used book store. But if I want to locate, purchase, and start reading Gentleman Junkie all the same, I can go to Ereader, or Fictionwise, or BooksOnBoard, or several other sites, purchase and download a legit copy, and have it on hand within just a few minutes, and the words I read on my Palm or PC screen are every bit as powerful as the words on the printed pages because they're the same words. Ditto Web of the City. Ditto Paingod. Ditto Memos from Purgatory. Are the ebooks of these titles bringing in lots of money? Maybe not at the moment (though that may change depending on which way the bookbiz goes as reading devices improve). But how much are the print editions bringing in if they're not for sale through retail channels? It's not permanence that matters here -- it's availability. A book that readers can't buy retail or directly from the author or publisher doesn't bring the author any money.

Authorized ebooks sold through legitimate sites should be bringing at least some money to their publishers and authors. The authorized ebooks will probably be sold with some implementation of DRM -- that doesn't have to be a headache. I've noted elsewhere that ereader editions have the most customer friendly DRM you can get: you can put your ebook on as many devices as you wish, but before the book will open for the first time on a new device, you have to key in the unlock code, which is the billing name and credit card number you used to buy the book. Painless for the user, and the key isn't something the user will want to "share" with everyone on the internet. And the book, prepared by the publisher and perhaps the author as well, will be a cleaner copy than something Joe Doakes scanned on his desktop and shotgunned out to the web without proofing. As a reader, would you prefer to pay for a legit copy and put some bucks into the pockets of the writer so that he'll write some more, or would you rather screw around with bittorrent and rar files and hope that the pirate books you're downloading are virus-free and scanned well enough to be legible? I know what my preference is, and I don't believe I'm unique.

As to being dependent on the technology: well, as FinderDoug pointed out, Shit happens. So, on my machine, there's a folder that stores my ebooks and my wife's ebooks. That folder, which includes a copy of the software used to read said books on PCs and on Palm handhelds, is backed up periodically to CD. It's also backed up to a postage-stamp sized SD card. If anything takes out my computer's hard drive, all those files will be installed on its replacement, and the files on the SD card can be read on a Palm handheld any time. There's an older Palm handheld in the house that will read the SD cards and that runs on AAA batteries. Power's out? Not a problem. Should something take out not only my PC but also the room where the CD and the SD card and the Palm are stored, I'll have more problems than just my ebook library (as we'd be talking fire, flood, tornado, etc).

But if that fire takes out my house, my print copies are gone, and I'll scrounge a damned long time to replace some of them. To replace my ebook library, I log into my accounts at ereader, etc. and just download them again. Yes, there are vulnerabilities that go with keeping your books as ebooks, but there are advantages too. Paper has advantages, yes, but it too has vulnerabilities.

I don't sneer at paper -- I grew up with it, there are books I'll keep in paper until I'm planted, and I think there will be a place for the printed book for as long as people read. But the ebook has its advantages too, and I'd be happy to pay for more of them if only more titles were made available. I'm not much interested in getting my ebooks from thieves, and I'm hoping to see more legit editions by and by.

Bests to all, and apologies for being long-winded.

--tr

RE: ALL RIGHT

None of us need "stand corrected." Yes, of course--of COURSE-- there are millions of exceptions to the rule of the Multitude.

I know more than a hundred "kids" who are MORE than "all right."

They just don't happen to run with yotzes like the mayflies who've pooled in here to point out that I'm older--and wiser--than they. Older, sweeter, smarter, faster, and more humble.

Clearly, they are all right, because THEY don't think that their callowness and jejeune pettishness is a holy state that entitles them, like Burgomeister, to decide what lives and what dies, simply by individual fiat.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

KOS

Aaron Jackson.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flbcnn0913pssep13,0,3845104.story

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americas/09/11/jackson.heroes/index.html

Just heard about him myself. It gives me hope and at the same time, I have to shave in the morning.
I couldn't do that.

Writers and rights
Jane or Joan or someone with a name like that, which I could scroll down and check but because she is an ignoramus I will not spend the minute to do so, spewed that writers are not the victims of the Burgomeisters' thievery because publishers own the rights, and the writers amke all their money selling the rights.

Ignorance is not a defense, Jane/Joan. Writers, if they write for publication, usually do NOT sell the work outright, but instead "sell" certain limited rights, usually for a limited time and/or venue. Examples: "First Serial Rights", or hardcover rights, or paperback, or film rights, or the right to publish in a certain country in a certain language, or audio book rights, or even e-book rights. In fact, I recall when one publisher was trying to buy ALL RIGHTS in PERPETUITY back in the 70s, and SFWA as well as every other writers' group hit the wall over it. I believe that was Pocket Books?

So your "argument" is based on ignorance, hence your official designation, from your own ignorant argument, as "ignoramus".

Wear it well.

Kids are All Right department: While I wouldn't make book on the number of "All Right Kids" in the current twenty-something generation, I saw a thing on CNN today bout a twenty-five year old Florida kid who is doing osmething awesome. He's living in Haiti (and that is about as deep a shithole as their is on this planet. The people are beautiful, but what a place), and he is working to cure every person in the country of worm infestation. I know, sounds funny. But forty per cent of Haitians have worms. Swollen bellied kids hosting parasites that take twenty per cent of what the kid eats, and starve the brain, so the kid grows up stunted, weakened for the next opportunistic parasite or infection, and the country spirals down into the pit.

But this kid has dewormed one point seven million Haitians. More, he is working to spread this good work to the entire world.

The Kid Is All Right.

Wish I had written down his name.

Moon: In the fullness of time is the same as "in the long run", and in the long run we are all food for worms. Carpe diem. Don't drink the kool-aid. The military is not the problem.

KOS

atypical moment of non-shallow inspiration
I was chastised the other day - by someone whose opinion matters to me - for spending time on making virtual friends when I should be spending it on "real life" frieds, those with whom I could actually spend time.

I had to remind this person that I wasn't out continually looking for new folks in the inter-sphere. My virtual friendships are divided between people whom I've already met (esp as we move around a lot), and acquaintances and friendships here - from the Goldblum the Fly board through to the Fora. It dawned on me that I'd been cultivating some of these relationships for nigh on 10 years. (I went back to the archives to check, first post in 98 but pre-dated by lurk references at least in 96). In my mind, that doesn't constitute reckless time spent in electronic associations.

Heck, these friendships are longer and more consistent than a good portion of my in-person friendships! And that led me to recall some I'd known from the start (Finder and Barney at least) and a few who'd sailed from our shores (Sue Luesse, Xanadu, Maggie o the Mountain just off the top of my head). I was then left to wonder how other's online experiences compared. Are you continually meeting new friends associated with various interests or websites?; is it limited to a few locations?; or are you a devotee to just one or two, with little attempt to foster electronic interactions beyond the relevant comment?

I suppose, in the end, I find it worthwhile. Maybe that's because the crowd I joined, the interest of our associations, draws people who are thoughtful and interested in a continuing discourse. Or maybe I just got lucky.

I just thought it was worth noting, after all the unfortunate business unfolded here of late, that sometimes roses grow in briars.

Yours electronically,
Peg

Them gawd damn kids! They don't know nuthin! They don't read books, they don't work, they want evrything fer free!

I do believe Webderland is becoming a board of OLD FARTS.

Hot Diggity!!
My New Herzog Pix Clix With Variety Crix!!

Harlan, is "kvell" the right word for what I am feeling?

Blurbville:

" Pic offers one arresting visual marvel after another and should render contrite all who say there is nothing left for movies to show us that we haven't seen before."

OR

" Herzog transforms the strange and wondrous sights and sounds of Antarctica into the landscape of an alien planet"

OR

"One of Herzog's best and most purely enjoyable."

BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY:

"Should continue the iconoclastic helmer's niche box-office win streak, with long ancillary life to follow."

More here!!

http://www.variety.com/review/VE1117934764.html?categoryid=31&cs=1

REPLY TO "HUH?"

1) In fact, it WASN'T my generation that did ANY of the shitty things you list. I--Grampa, remember, you twit?--was born in 1934. It was YOUR generation what done did all the crazy shit you list. I was in the generation too young to fight in WWII, too old to fight in Viet Nam. I served my country (unlike you) as a draftee from 1957-59, between WWII.3 and World War II point 4. I'm the one who broke his ass for civil rights, bringing America out of the Nam, working for the farm laborers with Cesar Chavez, crossed and recrossed and re-recrossed the U.S. speaking for endless hours in aid of the Equal Rights Amendment, not to mention testifying as an Expert Witness in Free Speech trials all over the country.

2) Dint yo mama never teach yo skunky ass to r'spect yo elders?

I love the handle you used to get in here and fart away the best part of your brain:

Huh?

EXACTLY the proper nom-de-dunce of someone Who Just Don't Get It. Huh? The kids are "all right," monkeymass, not "alright."
And no, if you speak for them, they aren't all right, allright, alright, or owlright. They need a lackwit rumbustical like you to ennoble their grunts and mawmsey.

Get back into the dugout, rookie. Tell'm to send me someone with a bit more muscle and gravitas next time. Also, a small chunk of brain jammed into the headbone wouldn't hurt much, either. As one of the Webderlanders noted a brief minim ago, "Ellison has pieces of guys like you in his stool."

Oh. Don'cha just loooooove it!

Yr. Pal, Harlan

HUH? you haven't got a clue have you?
HUH?

Wether or not you want to admit it or not, Harlan is totally right.

The upcoming generation is the most self centered, unaware of the world generation this world has ever seen.

Not many of them can see past their noses, and when they do it's usually just to grab the most recent piece of conumeable that TV or Raido wants to toss their way.

I know from whence I speak. I'm the generation just before this one. I am not gonna go postal, enough has been said on this to last a while.

But, I sure hope that this generation wises up and starts taking some responsiblity, or Generation X is screwed roally!

Begging forgiveness for the second post
"Some guys I know (well, really friends of friends) had a shewt-em-up very similar to the one in Snohomish a few years back, and got it on public access teevee sans any police involvement. Refresh my memory, someone: was Twin Peaks was filmed in Snohomish or Snoqualmie?? I can never remember."

TWIN PEAKS was primarily shot in Snoqualmie and North Bend. Snohomish was the home of my husband's grandmother, a force of nature until she passed away at 93 last year, and is best known for its excessive number of antique shops and xenophobic bedroom community air.

Snoqualmie is quaint and fighting the twin spectres of death by tourism and dwindling local businesses. North Bend pretends it's Issaquah (a Native American word meaning "where fat woman is eaten by bear") but lacks the art crowd.

Random responses to today's topics
Glad someone besides me appreciates the new Doctor Who series, as it's very recently been upgraded from guily pleasure to outright obsession as regards the vidiot box (and this is from someone who's never found the original show especially watchable).

Some guys I know (well, really friends of friends) had a shewt-em-up very similar to the one in Snohomish a few years back, and got it on public access teevee sans any police involvement. Refresh my memory, someone: was Twin Peaks was filmed in Snohomish or Snoqualmie?? I can never remember.

And Burgomeister, you have no idea how light you done got off. *cough, dead gopher, cough*

"In other words, if they think they want it, they should get it, and stomp they widdle foots if'n they DON'T get it."

Gramps, how do you know how old the Burgomeister is?

Didn't your generation start the war in Iraq? Howabout the environment... oh that was your generation too. oops.

I volunteer, I know plenty of people who volunteer and are working hard to fix things.

CBS also did a poll showing that young people now are more engaged politically than have been in a while.

Polls can say a lot. Or they can say a little. Depends on how one twists the context.

I agree the Burgomeister isn't the nicest guy in the world, or the smartest, or the hardest working.... so don't get me wrong here. Just seemed a little lame-o to just asume the youth of america is out to get you, or rather in this case your peers.

The kids are alright.

Fantagraphics Shoot-Out
Wow!

That looks way too redneck for me...

And I'm from Oklahoma.

KREBS, Oklahoma!

Harlan,

While I can ONLY respect your reverence for Frank (after ALL, I was ONE of those corpses you guys went and stepped on with yer heroic "feats"), I am compelled to share with you my own thoughts as I laid them out on the other side of the canyon:

Having pondered Franks words for hours, I have to disagree with his argument. Americans - especially those born here - ARE genetically superior.

Why else would we be blessed with these privileges?

Why, bioethicists and scientists - contemplating the future fear that genetic engineering, among other technologies, are going to divide human beings into classes which may, in turn, one day try to destroy one another - have established the urgency in rooting out the weak lines, eliminating people of curious color and ethnicity, thereby allowing human breeding stock to keep its purity.

Rich, powerful people will use technology to make their kids smarter, they say. The poor and the disenfranchised, meanwhile, will become a kind of subhuman mealy-mouthed class leeching off its betters - hindering the evolution of our species.

Some visionaries have argued, "We might create a group of people much smarter than us, that might want to kill us...Or we might want to kill them."

Well, I, myself, would never go quite THAT far. I'm simply saying let any part of the world that ISN'T white fall on its own face...and just...DISAPPEAR! Just use the ol' "ignore 'em and they'll go away" strategy.

If we stay to ourselves...I guarantee we'll remain a happy and PRIVILEGED race!

So, though truly BOLD and ORIGINAL, I must disagree with Frank's position.

(Praiiiiize God, you now see the light, Harlan. That you won't have me tasered like that student yesterday, who'd asked an inconvenient question of an apparently gutless, self-serving John Kerry at the University of Florida)

The Moon and the Written Word
Ezra and KOS: I agree with KOS on this one. If anything, the Moon would be good practice for further exploration. And as much as I loathe our whole military complex, I have to say that if they are in the best position to act on colonization, that's fine by me. Any human on Mars is a good human on Mars when there otherwise aren't any humans on Mars. Or to phrase that better: I don't care who colonizes the various planets as long as they are human. Call me a speciesist. Or a humanist.

Paper: I'm not comfortable storing what little work I've got on the computer, but I do it anyway. I've lost one whole story and bits of a couple more, and I've started now to print out paper copies (which I should have been doing the whole time anyway). My stuff is mostly tripe right now, crap not worth saving, practice. If I could lay my hands on a functioning typewriter I'd be in hog heaven until I realize that I can't type. But that would be better than this constant and slightly paranoid fear of instant and irrevocable loss should lightening strike or should digital cattle rustlers spring onto my hard-drive.

If there weren't any hardcopy left, and all of everything was in the waves of the Shit Sea, I'd go absolutely insane with fear. One good EMP blast (the fictional kind) and All of Literature and History would be gone. It would be the Bradbury Stone Age, but we wouldn't know who Bradbury was, so we wouldn't call it anything, but just go around and hit each other over the head with cell-phones and grunt.

Skycrest
One of the reasons sales of a single book are not adequate yardsticks of the nation's literacy -- though I admit there's plenty of negative information elsewhere -- is that a single book is just a narrow slice of the market.

When there were only three TV Networks, it was not unusual for up to half the United States to be watching the same show at the same time. Now there are hundreds of channels, and though there are mainstream shows and fringe shows, the fact remains that the channels remain in competition for a viewership sliced awfully fine. There are some dramatic series, now, thriving with ratings that would have led to instant cancellation were CBS, ABC, and NBC the only options. (This is actually a good thing. It's impossible to imagine such treasures as the new DOCTOR WHO, or HBO's wonderful DEXTER, or SIX FEET UNDER, or the really quite clever game show PREJUDICE etc, ever getting on the air, let alone lasting, in the climate where every show had to operate among the lowest-common-denominator likes of THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES.)

In books, monster bestsellers like the Harry Potter books became monster bestsellers because (statistically, at least), their appeal spans several market segments and just about everybody who buys books has gotten at least one of them.

It's the same factor that's at work at the movie box office. If a recent romantic comedy flops, that's because the people who religiously go to every romantic comedy were not enough to support it. The monster hits are those rare must-see films (it still happens, these days), that EVERYBODY must see, and that provides a much more accurate count of the sheer number of people who *ever* go to the movies.

The fact that a million people bought a book called THE GOD DELUSION is actually a good sign, by itself. A million people found the subject matter worth reading about. This was not the same million people who only buy romance novels, or only buy science fiction, or only buy the latest liberals-are-scum screed by Ann Coulter. Those people were buying their own books.

If the average science fiction novel sells like shit -- and it does -- then that's because there is not currently such a thing as the science fiction novel that all science fiction readers must read; the total number of science fiction readers may be lower than it's ever been, but the relevant factor as far as the low numbers of any single book is concerned is that the TOTAL NUMBER of people who EVER pick up a science fiction book, are still divisible by hundreds of titles. And those numbers will continue to offer the advantage to recognizable flavors, like well-known authors, media tie-ins, and those where the lady in the jumpsuit on the front cover displays especially nice boobies.

So judging by ONE book -- a book that sold especially well, for one without mass appeal -- makes no sense.

The totals are worse than they've ever been. But one book is not a valid argument.

Okay, since nobody's done it, I'll be the first...

After reading Peter's link, I'm going to start a legal defense fund for the gang. If anybody'd like to contribute, e-mail me offline. Used appliances, guns, ammunition, and the suspect "massage lotion" would be most appropriate.

Thought this might be of amusement
Because for Gary Groth, shooting off his mouth just isn't enough...

http://seattlest.com/2007/09/16/cops_shut_down.php

PAD

I don't think you can take sales from a single book as a sole barometer of literacy. Not everyone is going to like every book. I have three thousand books on my shelves, and The God Delusion isn't one of them (although Sagan's Demon Haunted World sits up against John Varley's Demon, for some odd reason).

I definitely have mixed feelings on space exploration, however. Think about this: the mathematics needed to send a rocket to the moon, land it and bring it back has been known for several hundred years. Building a rocket powerful enough to actually get there was more of a technical and engineering problem than a scientific one, and the solution we came up with was ultimately unsustainable (one gigantic three stage rocket per mission).

Conversely, the science missions we've undertaken have not only broadened our understanding of science, but have actually defined BRAND NEW SCIENCES.

Unfortunately, both endeavors, though highly worthy, are mostly managed by NASA/JPL, and both have to fight it out like dogs at a Terrell Owens house party in order to get the funding each deserves.

Reading & Mr Ellison & Space Travel
A few best-sellers do not a renaissance make. No, print & books are not dying, far from it.

What is dying is READING.

More and more people read less and less every year. We have created a society in which it is possible to thrive while being functionally illiterate. (Apologies my friends but look at some of the spelling and grammar used by many of the contributors to this very site!)

Let's use as an example the recent, much commented on bestseller from Richard Dawkins, THE GOD DELUSION. I am told that as of last month the book had sold a million copies in hardback. A monstrous bestseller! But there are almost 300 million people in this country. And a TV show that garnered only a million viewers would swiftly die the death.

As long as we spend much of our time slack-jawed in phosphor, and as long as our educators pander to the young folk, hailing them as "post-literate" rather than illiterate, it will get worse not better. Many commentators I've read have pointed out how LITTLE effect the Harry Potter books have had on the reading of other (perhaps more worthy) texts.

As Ellison fans, I consider most of you to be the cream of the crop. You think and write amd read. But come out of your ivory towers friends. You are a subset of a subset.

In ancient Sumeria even the illiterate majority reverenced THE WORD as magical. The privileged few who could read and write were the elite. In the future the literate few (defined as ones who can do more than sign their name on a check) will be considered, uh... well, "eccentric" is as appropriate a word as any.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

KOS

I have no doubt whatsoever that in the fullness of time humankind will move out into the universe. But for the foreseeable future only small groups of elite MILITARY personnel will be able to do so. The vision of mass migrations of peoples into space will remain what it is, a fantasy.

For the majority of us life will always be here. The disasters you listed exist as a potential, surely. But they are of a very low order of probability, even in the long term. Our problems are here. Our destiny is here.

I support the peaceful exploration of space. Putting a "colony" on the moon (like the International Space Station before it) has no apprecible scientific value whatsoever and amounts to little more than imperial chest-thumping. And don't kid yourself. A "colony" on the Moon or even Mars will be a military base first and foremost.

Sorry: J.K. Rowling.

print and Web

Anybody who thinks print is dead should ask J.R. Rowling her opinion -- every day I can count copies of "The Deathly Hallows" in the hands of strangers I pass on the street (Carole and I just finished reading it aloud to each other last night) -- or Stephen King, for that matter, who gave publishing by Internet a try or two, and did reasonably well, I understand, but hasn't given up on books and likely won't, because they established his name and career, and will no doubt continue to constitute the bulk of his income.

Burgomeister likes to characterize himself as a rebel, a champion of the written word and free speech, a -- to quote from a certain famous tale by our man -- "Jomo Kenyatta, a Dick Bong, Ace of Aces" . . . but I think a more accurate term would be something on the order of:

Tagalong.

Attention craver.

Parasite.

and Bully

-- because, as Ellison has pointed out, he doesn't pick on writers who are inclined or able to hit back.

If Burgomeister wrote one story that I found worth reading, that would count for more than all his blathering about Ellison, himself, or his vaunted Web site, which I have no interest in visiting.

I'm too busy reading the Ralph Ellison and Don DeLillo books I'm packing, expecting to start Solzhenitsyn's _The First Circle_ so it's in my bag as well, and preparing for this evening's audition for a production of a new translation of Petr Zelenka's 2001 Czech play, "Tales of Ordinary Madness."

Oh, yeah: yesterday I deposited a check as payment for my labors developing notes and index for the new edition of _The Glass Teat_ and _The Other Glass Teat_, due out before long from Charnel House Publishing.

I still make a lot more money writing for newspapers and books than for the Web, though the sheer word count for latter sources is much greater.

One other thing: the International Tales Web site has just put up my recordings of Jack London's "To Build a Fire" and "The Night-Born." Check out the free sound samples.

reply to Jane
I can only speak for myself; Adam-Troy and Harlan and others may be more fortunate than I concerning rights, but the only money I make from the 2 non-fiction books I have published are royalties..which come twice a year and have never been more than $500. I get no income from other rights (TV, other media, etc) and still work fulltime. If I ever get to the point where folks want to pirate my work, I'll fight like hell to keep twits like the Burgomeister and scribd.com from taking money from me. If you love reading and good writing, buy the damned book. If you can't afford to buy it, check it out from a library as we buy our copies so the authors can afford to continue to write. Only a lucky few make enough to live on doing this labor of love, don't screw the pooch for the rest of us. In fact, my sister-in-law has done 6 romance novels for a large publisher, still works full-time and have never seen any rights money, despite having a well-known agent.

Harlan: I support your efforts and encourage you to enlist other authors and publishers in this fight.
TJ

Actually...

Barney, if I may, Jane is correct regarding the text. The copyright violations are against Houghton Mifflin and the like.

Which is why Burgomeister -- who has responded to me in email and seems like a nice but legally misguided reader -- and his ISP are facing corporate lawyers, and corporate resources, not personal ones.

In a second note to anyone who cares, I have to laugh out loud at the concept that if I put copyrighted works up on my website (with OR without permission) that this somehow conveys more permanence upon the work that does the printed page. Sorry kids, my website will not last in perpetuity.

The book I leave to my niece or nephew is permanence. The website that will be taken down upon the demise of my bank account is about as transitory as it gets.

A'cause I haven't Run Off at The Mouth in a while...
Some thoughts:

First: If you think print is dying, that's an opinion to which you have a right, and mayhap time will prove it out. But there are no bad boot sectors in a printed folio. When you're shaking your battery-depleted laptop and wondering when the power is coming back on, or when you're unable to access your digital library because your device for reading it has crashed and taken it all with it, or a virus has corrupted the works, or you've been plain old out-moded by software revisions and format changes - all of which have much shorter odds than the obsolescence of paper and ink - what will you really have? Paperweights and memories. If you're all-in on technology, any morning can bring an unwanted surprise. Screws fall out. This is the way of machines. Meanwhile, fresh off the shelf, "Gentleman Junkie" has never failed to open when requested, and every day the planet turns in a fashion that gives me enough light to read by, failing everything else. Sure, paper crumbles. That takes a hell of a lot longer to happen than a rolling blackout or a corrupted hard drive does to make the digital version of anything go away. So if you want to throw your faith behind the "permanence" of something that requires electricity in order to Do or Make, roll those bones. Caveat offered: shit happens.

Second: As for Harlan's legacy, nobody - from the Man himself down to the kid still unconceived who will stumble across a dog-eared copy of "Angry Candy" years from now - can predict what it will be, the form it will take, or if it will even happen. Too many factors can shape such a thing. Writers fall in and out of vogue. It's the nature of the beast. He could be no-price in twenty years, and read in schools across the country in fifty. Nothing can guarantee his persistence - it's the luck of the draw. The argument that somehow free distribution on the Internet - the desktop land of short attention span - will assure Harlan a readership for the next ten, fifty, two hundred years is ridiculous and self-serving to those who simply want his stuff free on-line without being hassled for stealing it. 'I'm doing you a service.' Yeah. Yank the other one.

BUT, in my opinion, as pertains to legacy, the strength in Harlan's corner is this: in much of his work, Harlan has cast an eye into the heart of man - what makes us great, and weak; what makes us surrender, and strive; how we live, or die - and ultimately, what makes us human. That he dresses it in fantastic robes is irrelevant. Beneath all of the tropes and trappings of SF and fantasy are the questions of how we can be as beautiful, fucked up, petty, ignorant, hopeful, evil, noble, terrified or courageous as we dare to be on any given day, in any given situation. Unless mankind suddenly and collectively stops trying to figure out how and why it ticks, the major works of Harlan Ellison in this vein have a better than average chance of retaining their power for future readers, regardless of whether it's bound between covers, made available as a download, or beamed directly into your cerebral cortex.

This is completely aside from whether you like Harlan the man or not. It would be asinine to say "Well, 'Go Toward The Light' would be a brilliant meditation on faith if only Harlan wasn't such a dick." If you can say that with a straight face, then you are to critical thought what Jerry Lewis is to the practice of Law.

And along those lines:

Joe Hodge: I try to maintain a kind demeanor, I try to be thoughtful and not snipe or dump on people. And maybe I'm just cranky this morning, or maybe I'm tired... but that has to be the stupidest thing I've read in a long time. 'Gosh Harlan - you're a self-aggrandizing, profit-mongering asshole, but setting that aside, what's the plan for your work once we're finally rid of you?'

Really, Joe? Do your toys come from China?

Jane's "argument"
Everyone else here is doing fine with the adjectives and adverbs and scorn so I'm going to just address that argument.

That site and others like it, and the mentality and methodology is still an affront to the writers and the estates of the writers - only at one remove.

The "breaking into your garage and stealing/borrowing your car" while your not using it has been mentioned here before and I used the metaphor years ago when the RemarQ/AOL situation first came up and there was a separate board-thread to hash all this crap out and one of the old E.O.E./V.O.E/'s came at this much the same way.

What this posits is that it's less of a crime to steal stuff IF that stuff is owned by the Company Store instead of someone working in the mines. That the Company Store can take the hit AND somehow has fewer rights. Not only are both of those assumptions wrong both from a ethical and legal point of view (because Company Stores ALSO have rights), BUT they fail to take into account the consequences to the person stolen from who's stuff was owned by the company store. The Company Store isn't going to compensate the writer/mine worker.

But somehow that's the problem of the Company Store or the poor worker who owns his soul to it - who is welcome to keep working in the mine until he gets black lung and drops dead in his tracks - and never the problem of the thief.

- Barney Dannelke

Most if not all the work on the Burgomeister site is not owned by the writers, but their publishers. The writers make their big money upfront selling the rights; the royalties from subsequent sold copies are very small by comparison.

If Burgomeister is stealing from anyone, it's the publisher, not the writer. Since Ellison holds most of his rights, he should be diligent, but this site should not be cast as some kind of affront to the writers on it, because it isn't.

it's a crazy world Harlan
Joe
be sure your handlers put the bars back in the attic window when they put you back in, to make you and us safe, so you can't escape again and to make the lock on the door nice and secure. If your lucky they will let you have heat this winter and maybe if your nice they will let the computer stay 24/7 and you and the burgemeister can text message each other.
all the best
sturgeon

Fax fun
HARLAN -
Hope you're well. I guess it's doubtful you'll see this before I ring you tonight (this morning, your time), but I just got back into the office to find that our fax machine is knackered. (Typical!) (So please disregard the Blackfish fax number on any correspondence.) There is a fax machine in the office next door that we can use, however, and the number for that is: 01225 339977 if you need to fax the text for the LITTLE BOXED COMMENT.
Of course, you can dictate everything to me today anyhoo.
Best,
Jes

"I grew up reading Asimov, Niven, yourself, and others. If that alone has not triggered an egomaniacal response already I will be astonished (Note you were not the sole listee nor the first). After reading messages this site that sound like some sort of mastibatory fantasy I have found that the Author is nothing compared to his Stories."


S'okay, Joe, the fact that you could rap that out and whack off at the same time impresses me to no end.

Print is not dead; it doesn't have even the remotest passing relationship with life support. Print is alive and well for the world at large despite the sky-is-falling insistence of the Hackers Glee Club, the Secretary of which can't spell masturbatory without a Pavlovian red squiggle. Said and same Secretary should check the record for a complete notation of Mr. Ellison's works. The man is hardly shackled to pen and ink.

I'm certain your concern for the well being of his works keeps Mr. Ellison awake at night, wondering what heroic act he performed in a past life to warrant such thoughtfulness from you in this one. No doubt I'll have a better day tomorrow knowing Mr. Ellison has people like you looking out for the best interests of not only himself but writers, artists, and creative minds everywhere.

Sandra
(who also grew up reading Asimov, Niven, Ellison, et al, and doubts Mr. Ellison would complain about the quality of company)


***


Sorry, guys, the bag of troll food fell out of my hands as I was browsing the posts.

"My kisses sometimes get mistaken for ebola"

Ha! I know the feeling.

MM

I grew up reading Asimov, Niven, yourself, and others. If that alone has not triggered an egomaniacal response already I will be astonished (Note you were not the sole listee nor the first). After reading messages this site that sound like some sort of mastibatory fantasy I have found that the Author is nothing compared to his Stories.

My biggest fear for you is that you will take all of your short stories to the grave with you as you have not congured a foolproof way of taking residuals and any future earnings with you into the pyramid that these strokers are sure to build for your praise. May I suggest a simple slot in the pockets of the twin "Harlans" that overshadow the walkway of worship leading to your resting place. These would connect to slides leading deap underground to the "king's" chamber in which you, being actually still alive (for fear there might be some sort of spooky judgement to condemn you should you really crumble to dust, reside.

At the beginning of the walk. Near these statues you will, of course, have something Shelleyish. You know, "My name is Harlan, king of kings: Look on my works, ye mighty, and despair!" But no one will look at your works because they are all on paper which crumbled away long before even the statues and in the end all that will be left is your own dust fallen from the man that traded his "Mouth" away. Hmm, sounds somewhat familiar.

All of that aside, I'd like to know if/how you see your works preserved for future perusal because I still like Them.

Burgomeister

Harlan said:

"And THAT is why I'm not going after the Burgomeister."

Yessir. Noted.

But I am...

Note To AT-C
I actually meant "Coonty", otherwise known as Florida arrowroot or Seminole bread. After all, plants need to be saved from killer asteroids too.

Broke the rule, so I'll stay away for a few days.

KOS

The craziest thing about this "Burgomeister" character is that he actually asks for donations. "Give me your money as I steal from these creators." This guy is a genuine Asshole.

Yoicks.

Wheeew.

RE: THE "BURGOMEISTER"

A CBS poll released today, in conjunction with a university societal think-tank study, seems to make a strong case for the theory that now-young-adult children of Baby Boomers, those children born in the '80s and '90s, have neither the "drive nor tenacity" of their elders. Pointedly, they are an arrogant generation with "irrational expectations of entitlement." In other words, if they think they want it, they should get it, and stomp they widdle foots if'n they DON'T get it.

I'm getting to the yawp what calls itself "Burgomeister," who wants to ennoble himself as a "reader" (apparently of "writers")
but has either no sense or no compunction about STEALING from writers. The linkage to the paragraph above and this brazen, arrogant thief is as follows:

In defense of Creative Rights for Writers, I have now been the prime instrument for hounding to earth, chastising, and happily impoverishing more than 200 pirates. (For Pirate, read Thief.)
Of that 200+, more than 90% have been of the age cited by the study referenced above. They wanna do it, so it's OK for them to do it, whatever "it" might be. In pretty close to the same percentile, every one of them a)initially blew hot air and puffed up large like Burgomeister, casting themselves as the benificent Bonnie and Clyde of the infohighway, saviors of The Word, and Outlaws freeing that Word from the immoral, unworthy, censorious, greedy clutches of...

Uh...the Creators of those words.

Then, when they were made aware that beasts of the night were stalking them, they b)hooked their thumbs in their vests, puffed out their chests, eyed us with steely visage and laughed like Dr. Doom, swearing they were so fuckin' clever, NO ONE would be able to swarm their electrical mouse back to its steely hole. Subsequently, when I and my compatriots--in four different countries--unhooded them, they c)whimpered first that they were such benefactors of universal literacy, that what they'd been doing was sanctified; or in the words usually hurled at Nick Charles at the denouement point of a THIN MAN film, "you can't do dis'ta me!" Then they d)kissed my ass at what a wonderful writer I am, a man who should be as well known as Joseph Conrad or Colette, and threw themselves on my mercy.

Well, I ain't merciless, but these mooks--children of middle-brow middle-class privilege, morbidly obese with their own bloviating egoboo, not often enough brat-slapped, and too lazy to go out and raise money for the National Coalition Against Censorship or to support the Dictionary of American Regional English or to fund The Comic Book Legal Defense Fund--these non-creators who have all the time in the world to implement their own unilateral arrogant theory that "the page is dead" and "copyright is archaic"--these Summer Soldiers/Sunshine Patriots who wouldn't give a dime to put food on a freelance writer's dinner table--yet who can espouse one harebrained reason after another why writers shouldn't get paid or have the right to reap as annuity the labors of their lives--these reavers have begged for me not to bankrupt their parents, not to take their cars and sell them for money to be passed along to Freedom of Speech charities or Public Libraries, not to garnishee their paychecks, not to put liens on their bank accounts, not (in short) to take them down into the basement and kneecap them. I ain't merciless. But THEY ain't pitiable.

The fact that most writers are such spineless, colloid masses that they would rather get screwed again and again rather than risk the opprobrium that has become goddam Mother's Milk to me, he said, skinning back his lips over still-bloody fangs, is not my concern.

And THAT is why I'm not going after the Burgomeister.

He has been smart enough NOT to put up my work. He knows the Asimov Estate is too busy to notice; Sir Arthur is well-off and lionized quite rightly in Sri Lanka and doesn't need this kind of piddling goat-droppings in his twilight years; Silverberg is sitting on millions and hates this shit, but he is committed to not getting embroiled; and on and on. There ARE a few of us who care enough to keep snarling, old and allegedly toothless though we may appear. Most of us don't have the wherewith to go crime-busting like The Green Hornet. (You can look up the reference, Burgomeister, in what we usually call "a book.") But a few madmeno among us are so rabidly foamingly crazily frothingly dangerous-to-the-point-of-self-destructiveness angry at this ongoing self-justifying treatment of Creators as if we were here ONLY for fan-boys and "readers," that we DO mortgage our homes to track these lice to their lair and to take a 20-lb maul to their computers. Yeah, most writers sadly do not demonstrate in their actual lives the degree of heroism, or even self-awareness, so common to their stories.

But a few of us bridle at this bald-faced looting of the Great Library of Alexandria, and we take down as many such heathens as we can. So Burgomeister has been canny. He has avoided posting, hosting, buttfucking the Collected Works of Harlan Ellison, because he DOES understand that of all the dedicated enemies he might make, I am among the most blindly devoted and implacable. My track record in this event, which has become my metier because others have abdicated their charge in such matters, permits me to blow off my big bazoo in this way.

The message has clearly become: fuck with this guy at your peril. If he didn't hesitate to sue AOL, do you really think he won't come after you?

So. Child of a Boomer. Self-important jughead. Thief. But mostly, a coward. Without even the mere courage, the simple bravery, the righteousness of his convictions, to post a real name and accept responsibility for his knavery. Zorro, my ass.

Someone made him aware of my judgment on his actions. Or, I suspect, he lurketh hereabouts, or one of his, uh, er,(cough cough) sycophants does.And though I did not in any way suggest, hint, intimate that I had any interest in hounding him to earth, just used good old non-detergent Free Speech to post my feeling that he is yet the latest of an apparently endless daisy-chain of mountebanks and gasbags to misappropriate the work of those who do the Creating, it drove him mad. Looney. Raging against The Bad Mans.

And, still the mutt, he posted his dismissive "Ellison isn't worth stealing from." Nyaah nyaah nyaah; my website is biiger'n your website. The fact that every writer he named as my superior was a personal friend of mine, and every one of them has gone on record with encomia for my talent, is too ironic to escape my mention, but apparently so arcane it escaped HIS notice.

Nonetheless, I applaud his use of the First Amendment, his cunning and (oh god it's too painful)(withdraw thy dirk from out my breast) opinion of my worth; but as long as he doesn't actually infringe my copyright, my registrations, my trademark or my good nature, this Monumental Abscess of a Thug is safe from me. So: leave him alone if it's my name or rep you're sycophanting over. A couple of you have called, ready to slip him the old Black Spot if I mere say the word. Well, don't. Not for me, not in my name, not to quell your own indignation.

Don'cha just LOVE it! If you admire Isaac or Phil Dick or Ray or Arthur, you're a Noble Reader to Bre'r Fathead; if you like Ellison, you're a sycophant! Don'cha just Luh-uh-uh-ve it, as Bugs useta say?

So: do nothing on my behalf. Burgobun is YOUR problem, good friends, not mine. At least till he missteps and gives me legal standing to flay him.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Note to KOS
It took me all of a minute to figure out that you meant "Colony" when you talked about the importance of putting a "Coony" on the moon.

Samswope shirts final update (well, hopefully)
Hello hello again,

Ok. So I placed my order with the shirt mill in PA late Friday night, after everyone was gone for the weekend. Then we had to change up some sizes and also update the address to make sure it got there on time. Well requested the changes by firing off some e-mails to the shirt mill (but again there wasn't going to be anyone at the shop to answer them until today).

So basically I had two queues running, my order was in the production queue waiting to be process and shipped and my changes to that order were sitting in the service queue waiting to be read and responded to.

As it happened the production people, seeing this was an express order, went into overdrive. Which is nice, unfortunately they got the order processed and shipped before the customer service folks worked through the weekend backlog of e-mails and saw I needed to change the address. Doh.

So, basically, the order shipped to the PO box address (and as my understanding was automatically downgraded to a slower shipping method that is compatible with a PO Box). Since there is no certainty that this will arrive in time, I placed a second identical order with the non-PO Box address, which they assure me will arrive in time, and I began the cancellation process on the first.

So you have two packages coming your way. Whichever gets there first crack open and enjoy, the other just write 'return to sender' on it and, Ta-Da! All is well.

*whew*

This whole express order process seemed far more byzantine then it should have been.

Thanks much,
Jeremy

Ezra Moonbeam Agonistes
Exra, those rovers on Mars, and all the other robots we have sent, are sending or plan to send, are indeed worthy of our attention and fascination.

We need to send more. Yes. Absolutely.

But. BUT,

If the human race is worth anything, if our gaining knowledge is a good thing because WE are a Good Thing, then the human race is worth preserving.

Earth is a fine place. The Cradle Of Humanity.

But, BUT.

It is inevitable, a lead pipe cinch, that someday a disaster will wipe out the human race on earth. Whether one of those massive "Deccan Traps" super volcanos that pour out clouds of ash to fill the stratosphere and blot out the sun for a decade (Yellowstone is a prime candidate, and thats the one we know about. Who knows of the ones we don't?), Global Warming, killer comets/asteroids, gamma ray bursts, a nearby supernova, take your pick. Those are the Killers we know of, there are those we are blissfully ignorant of to date. We know all of these can happen. It's a numbers game. One of them will happen eventually to Earth. Whether in hundreds, thousands or millions of yers. One of them will end the human race if it doesn't kill itself in some other silly way. The onoy way to survive one of htem is to not be there when it happens. To have humans living on more than one world.

There are those who think the human race is not worth a damn, that we are unworthy of long term survival. Life unworthy of life. Others take the view that it doesn't matter, that humanity is doomed no matter what we do, that we're just too damned stupid to survive very long.

For those who thnk the human race is worthy of survival, and also believe it has a chance at long term survival, many of us also believe the best way to achieve that is to spread the human race beyond earth. It might be impossible. We can only know by trying.

That's why sending people back to the moon, and on to Mars, is important.

NASA is not the organization to do it, because they are a bureaucracy that long ago succumbed to its' need for massive amounts of money just to keep its' hordes fed and amused. The little that it accomplishes besides that succour of its' minions is still good, but oh the cost. We should let NASA run the robots, and get it out of the manned space business.

I would like to see X-Prizes for putting a coony on the moon. Something like 30 billion dollars for the first group to establish 30 or more humans on the moon and keep them alive for a year and a day.

It wouldn't cost anything unless someone actually did it.

And the robots will continue. They get cheaper and more capable every year. Nuclear electric engines will drive them to every nook and cranny of the solar system, and eventually beyond, to the Kuiper Belt and Oort Cloud, then the nearer stars. It's well underway.

But we cannot leave all our eggs in one basket. We have to get humanity onto other worlds while we can. We are the first, and perhaps the last, human civilization with the means to do so.

I believe we are worth it.

KOS

Meredith McCrae interview
I've burned the DVD and can send it to the HERC address, if you wish.

ROB:

You MUST honor my admiration and loyalty to Frank.

Had he not given me his gas mask, the mustard gas would've crippled my life. Had he not slung me in a fireman's-carry over his left shoulder, and painstakingly slogged through the mud, blood, and corpses in that trench, evacuating me from certain death at Verdun, well, I wouldn't be here today to sing his greatness.

NOW do you understand his absolute nobility?

Yr. Pal, Harlan

...and I still say Frank sucks at what ya call yer English language.

Harlan-

It might be a little late for the joke, but I ran across a small something that I thought was the perfect punctuation to our conversation about Ray. I sent it along to the HERC address; I figure it will show up in a day or show.

Any updates on the next 'Voice from the Edge' recording installment? Or on the release date of 'Fingerprints'?

Thanks.

Oh, and tell Susan I completed my Stage 14 ride of the Tour de France. The final fund-raiser total was over $15,000. She can check out the results at http://www.ryanleasher.com.

--
Ryan Leasher

What's that "in" all about? Didn't type it. eerie.

in
Harlan, no Margot Kidder on the slight snippet on YouBoobTube; but as you know, I cannot live without pop cultural enemas--the steak tartar of the eyes.

Margot Kidder? Yea, she is a classic earthy brunette, my type to a tee. Too bad about her problems as of late. She seems to be doing better. More power to her.

"I THINK he has a good heart."

No succor for bullshit, but yes, I have my moments. I have been known to cry when I see puppies.

You know I love all you mooks. My kisses sometimes get mistaken for ebola but forsake the odor and all will be fine.

-----------

Let me make this as nakedly clear as possible, a life is a life--all are equal in my eyes--an American is no better then an Afghani or an Iraqi. They all bleed, they all feel the smack of the ruthless wind. We are insulated by privilege, which is to account for why we think we are better then those awful people in their third world shitholes.

Once again, we are all the same--hold hands, sing the body eclectic. Huzzah.

-------------

Alan Greenspan said it was all about oil. Can anything taste as bittersweet? I'd laugh, but the guy with the graveyard spade might whap me one against me noggin.

Legends of Literature
Legends of Literature: The Best Articles, Interviews, and Essays from the Archives of Writer's Digest Magazine
Edited by Philip Sexton
$19.99

Includes:

"Controversy: Sharpest Sword of the Paperback Novelist" by Harlan Ellison

...plus about three dozen other items, such as essays by Dashiell Hammett, Jack Kerouac, Ken Kesey, L. Ron Hubbard, Stan Lee, and Rod Serling, and interviews with George Bernard Shaw, Hugh Hefner, and Kurt Vonnegut. Looks pretty good. I bought one.

emule link
Appears to be nothing Ellison pops up on the first paper. I do hope that authors and publishers take the Burgomeister down.

I did click through on the link provided by JeffR. Here is what comes up:

After due deliberation, it was decided that the effluvia of this minor genre scribbler
are of insufficient merit or significance to sit beside the likes of Asimov, Clarke,
Heinlein, Ballard, or Wyndham. Apologies to his many sycophants.

I would point anyone conceivably interested in the direction of the eMule P2P network,
where much of his output is to be had freely in digital form.

http://www.emule-project.net

To the Devil with the thieves of liberty.

--The Burgomeister

So it appears he's at least he's conscious of the fact that people may want to take him to task.

Burgomeister
There's something in the "NEW" section of that truly-free web site labeled, "Ellison, Harlan -- Complete Works". I did not click through. It's here, though: http://truly-free.org/new.spy
Hope somebody gets this guy.

Very sad news about Robert Jordan. I had been buying the "Wheel of Time" in autographed hardcovers from our local SF/mystery shop for my nephew, who devoured them. His readers must be devastated.

Cleveland
I wanted to take a moment to thank Ron Antonucci for his
good work and willingness to answer questions about the
event and such things as parking near the library. It has
made planning much easier.

My traveling companion tried to put a wrinkle in the works
by cancelling on me but one hotel reservation later and I
am back in the game if a tad less flush. How often do you
get to see your favorite author of all time in person after
all. I look forward to putting faces to some of interesting
people I see posting here. I fear I might be in danger of
sounding fan boyish now so I’ll leave off with that.

Whois Burgomeister???

Forgive the second post, but this is for our friends in the DC area who might know these folks.

The host is OpenHosting in Vienna. I've sent them a request to take down truly-free.org, referencing Harlan in no way other than "Ellison vs AOL".

The below is public information.

Admin ID:tu38mxMDH32LNw4R
Admin Name:Domain Administrator
Admin Organization:OpenHosting, Inc.
Admin Street1:344 Maple Ave. West #231
Admin Street2:
Admin Street3:
Admin City:Vienna
Admin State/Province:VA
Admin Postal Code:22180
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.7035551020

Admin Email:hostmaster@openhosting.com
Tech ID:tus0g9gdizsNXzMq
Tech Name:Domain Administrator
Tech Organization:OpenHosting, Inc.
Tech Street1:2106F Gallows Rd.
Tech Street2:
Tech Street3:
Tech City:Vienna
Tech State/Province:VA
Tech Postal Code:22182
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.8778424805

Burgomeister

It wouldn't be up to R Pal Harlan or his pal Mr Petit to go after Burgomeister. If Burgo is smart enough to have avoided posting Harlan's works, which it seems he/she has.

Actually, rather than solely chaining the authors with the responsibility to chase down and garrot this rat, I would make the publishing companies aware that their books have been republished by this creep. Publishing companies have much deeper pockets and have already paid out the monies to make these stories available.

As for my part, I think I'll drop a little line to his ISP and see what that does.

My two cents.

I had a look at the Burgomeister's site. We've all met his type. This is someone who does what he feels like doing, who has just enough intelligence to work up high-minded verbiage to rationalize it as for the Greater Good, and is so entranced with his own language that he will not deal with the world as it really is. (If you've ever heard NAMBLA spokespeople drone on about how they're really beneficial for kids, you can detect the same skeevy separation from reality.)

Here's the contact information for the site, derived from the WHOIS function at Network Solutions:

Registrant Name:Domain Administrator
Registrant Organization:OpenHosting, Inc.
Registrant Street1:344 Maple Ave. West #231
Registrant City:Vienna
Registrant State/Province:VA
Registrant Postal Code:22180
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.7035551020

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap070917.html

It's getting zero media coverage of course but the exploration of Mars continues with those fantastic rovers having survived past their expected expiration date AND a potentially killer Martian dust storm.

EDITORIAL INSERT: Instead of wast-, uh spending billions of dollars to send people back to the Moon why don't we follow the lead of these wonderful robot probes exploring Mars and Saturn and seed our Solar System with these extensions of our eyes and ears? We don't need astronauts to explore the Solar System, we ARE exploring the Solar System. But guess what part of NASA's budget gets cut the most to make way for unnecessary colonies on the Moon?


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/front.htm?reload=true

Interesting interview with David Cronenberg in today's Washington Post focusing on "his" use of violence in "his" films. Alas no evidence of any input from those pesky scriptwriters.

This And That
If the Burgomeister is indeed using PayPal. then he has to have given them an actual bank account and an actual address. Whether they are his, though, and not those of some cut-out is for him to know and us to wonder.

However, a call/letter by Charles Petit, Esq. to PayPal apprising them of their unwitting participation in helping the Burgomeiister raise funds for illegal purposes, well I imagine that would set the cat among the pigeons.

But who am I to tell HE how to care for his own?

This week a milestone: I earned my very first residuals. The WGA called, thus apprising me that they hold funds for me. Even though I am not a member (would that I qualified), one of my co-writers on a project was, and thus the WGA kindly collects the payments, divides them up and forwards them. I did not even know anything was owed to me, and yet they are sending me money. My heartfelt thanks to every member of the WDA, West that has ever paid his dues in either legal tender or tender feet from walking the line.

This writing thing sure beats honest work!

(Before you beat me about head and shoulders, I am paraphrasing Heinlein there!)

I used to make Tee-Shirts and sell them. I still have the equipment, and a couple dozen or so blank Hanes Beefy Tee's (the Gold Standard in the Business). If you don't mind it being made with heat transfers (I didn't do silkscreen, though I have a local printing shop that did that with quality at a great price and ), I can make you a tee shirt with virtually anything on it.

Next Monday, September 24, a few of us writerlyand SFnal types are getting together for Mongolian BBQ oiver in the Long Beach area, including Harry Turtledove and probably Craig Miller. Anyone here wants to join us, holler and I will send you the particulars.

Ciao and teggidizzi

KOS

DVD for Harlan Ellison - slight correction
I do not have the full interview, just the clip.

DVD of Harlan Ellison Interview
I have made a DVD copy of the interview, which I will send out later to-day or Tuesday. The DVD has been played successfully on 2 Samsung DVD players and the drive it was created on.

RIP
Fantasist Robert Jordan.

libraries, fine
Harlan

All this talk of libraries got me to thinking about a couple of wonderful LA time-killing spots and as a charter member of the Los Angeles Anti-defamation League, I thought your site would be a good place to mention them.

Not long ago, I was suckered into paying nine dollars for a cup of coffee (that’s 10,000% what you’d pay at Phillipe’s) in Marina del Rey. All I wanted was a place to sit and do some work while watching the boats and the seagulls. Little did I know that I could have a better view with free internet and a Little Lulu collection (gotta love John Stanley) at the library down the street.

The courtyard of the Santa Monica Library doesn’t have the view but other than that, it’s perfect. Grab a huge armful of books and a small cup of coffee in the cafe and you’re set. It really is a great way to kill a beautiful LA afternoon.

Take care,
Mark

p.s. I often refer out-of-towners to “Gloria Swanson’s Swimming Pool.” Thanks for writing it.

Burgomeister and copyright infringement
I guess my next question is: is there someone to whom I should send information about his site, so folks can decide if they want to sue this guy or try and shut him down?

The Burgomeister
On the Burgomeister's site, if you click on Links, one of the things you'll find (besides his looney-toons comparison of what he's doing to the operation of a lending library--don't any of these people understand that they're assuming the function of the author's publisher without entering into an agreement with the author?) is an email address to which PayPal donations can be sent. It would be interesting to find out if he gets enough donations to keep his "library" going. But if memory serves, PayPal requires that to receive payments, you have to provide bank account information so that the $$$ can be deposited. Don't know how cooperative the honchos at PayPal are in finding folks like the Burgomeister, but if some writer or publisher decides to track him down, he's kindly provided a place to start looking.

Now...If he DOES get enough donations to keep him going, that would suggest that there are folks out there willing to pay for ebooks, and by donating to the Burgomeister, that is in fact what they'd be doing. Maybe they wouldn't be paying a full market price, but they'd be paying. At least one pirate is assuming that there are people who will pay for the downloads; it would be nice if more publishers would get into the game, publishing decently-proofed digital editions with the approval of the authors and with some royalty money going to said authors. While there's a bunch of material on the Burgomeister's site that is in fact available in legit ebook editions (Chandler, Hemingway, Fitzgerald and a few others -- and if one were to examine the downloads, I'd bet that some of them were created before the legit ebook editions were issued), many of the titles he's posted have never been made available as ebooks through legitimate channels.

A few publishers get it, but too many don't -- the market may not be huge, but it exists. So far it seems to be enough to keep operations like ereader, Fictionwise, BooksonBoard, diesel, and others, afloat. Why not sell ebooks as well as hardbounds, audio, and paper editions? Anybody? Bueller?

Bests to all,

--tr

JUST JOHN and THE SHADOW:

This creature calling itself "The Burgomeister" is as odious a thug as we've run across so far. A maniacally purposeful obsessive, as far as HE is concerned, "pages are dead." Who the hell does he think he is--Cory Doctorow--Stalin--the SS--the Electronic "frontier"--to decide for all the rest of us?
How DARE he visit HIS obsessed messianic delusion on the rest of the thinking, reading world that does NOT welcome his unilateral vision of what is viable, and what is not?

This is a seriously demented person who has been given a lethal weapon. National security DEMANDS that he be found rapidly, and be shut down permanently.

And THAT is the flow of free ideas.

VERY seriously, Harlan Ellison

Harlan, I would like very kindly pleeeze to borrow your pants!

Just leave 'em outside your door.

And don't ask about any strange holes that weren't there before when you get 'em back.

UK
Harlan - no problem whatsoever, that all sounds great. Will call Tuesday with pen and printout to hand.
We missed the original slot in issue six, I'm afraid, but it will now definitely be going into issue seven, which we're about a week into - on sale, if I recall correctly, around October 18th.
Best,
Yr. envoy in Albion,
Jes

Harlan (and potential duplicators of effort) --

After he responded to my e-mail of last night, I just sent Jeremy your much coveted address information. Will keep you posted on his progress of Samswope shirts, if I hear anything further.

If he sends an extra extra large, I call dibs.

Your Humble Servant,
Erik

Best User Comment on latest You Tube Video....
"Two questions come to mind: How many lines of coke did he snort just before going on camera, and did they go get a room & shag like a pair of animals afterwards? She is all OVER Harlan, even guys who work on the decks of aircraft carriers don't send as many nonverbal "come hither" signals as she does. Crikey!"

We all know the answer to the FIRST question, and hopefully, we will NEVER find out the answer to the second one.....

To quote from The Rutles: It must have been the trousers.

Erik

JES BICKHAM ----- JES BICKHAM

There are, still, a few words you misheard on the tape, and we need to correct them in print. I'll do so and send them with the LITTLE BOXED COMMENT or, more easily, when we speak on Tuesday, have a copy of the layout you sent Erik in front of you, and I'll be able to dictate the correx verbally in a very few moments. Then, when I fax back the LITTLE BOXED COMMENT, you'll be good to go. Query: am I still bumped or will it be in the issue of DEATH RAY originally scheduled?

Yr. Pal, Harlan

BARNEY ... DAVID LOFTUS ... DORMAN ... ERIK ... JOSH ... ADAM TC

OR RICK WYATT ... or anyone else I know well enough ...

Would one of you PLEASE pretty please contact Jeremy Kalgreen of I AM SAMSWOPE fame, whose post appears just below, and convey to him my home address, so he can send the t-shirts directly, so we'll get them in time to wear them to Cleveland?

Thank you. Extremely.

OOOOOH, N**O**W I GET IT !!!!!!!!

All these remarks about "orange pants," when I couldn't remember ever owning a pair of orange pants.

All this talk of Meredith McCrae flirting with me, when all I could remember of the interview up in Canada those many many years ago was ME flirting with Margot Kidder.

All the YouTube references and me asking bewilderdly for someone to get me a legitimate aircheck or offline dub.

AND I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON!

Well, now I guess I know, and if I'm right, the pants aren't ORANGE, they're just color-distorted on whatever cast has been put up on YouBoobTube. The jacket I still have. It is a sandy tan leather jacket. Cost me a fortune. It hangs in the front hall closet. Doesn't fit me any longer, but it's too expensive to toss out. The pants -- if I'm remembering correctly -- are leather, also. Except the rough-out suede is on the outside, and it's natural brown, not orange. Got them, too. Wore 'em to Brazil in 120 degree heat. Not a smart move, but the pants got me laid. A LOT.

So I think it was the pants Meredith McCrae was flirting with, not me.

I still haven't seen it, the YouMeBoobRubeTube presentation, because--as you know--I am purposely the Avoidmeister for such trivia.

Nonetheless, I am delighted many of you have had a bright shiny penny moment dropped into the till of your otherwise tragic existence. I go. Cleveland is calling. Is that Cthulhu I hear?

(I'm too old for this, he said, sighing deeply.)

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Checkin' in
Harlan - you're a mensch, sir. I'm not back in the office until Tuesday now, but as soon as I return I'll fax you our fax number. Many thanks again.
Steve Barber - A long overdue answer to your question. Yep, I do take my camera with me when I'm out and about, more often than not. I'm lucky enough to live on the edge of the countryside surrounding Bath, and I'm addicted to cycling, so there's nothing I like more than heading off down a little country road and snapping the scenery (especially around sunset,and especially in the autumn - sorry, *fall* - my favourite season). Same goes for holidays/business trips etc. Whenever there's a get-together with close friends I'm there with the camera, too - got several shoeboxes overflowing with pics of my nearest and dearest. (I must stress I have no skill with a camera, but I do have some kind of deep-seated need to document events and sights.)
Hope all is copacetic with webderlanders everywhere on this fine Sunday.
Best,
Jes

Infamy! Infamy! They've all got it in for me!
HE, you dear boy, you! Thanks again for boxed Carry Ons. I can't wait to partake of the nasal drolleries of Kenneth Williams and cavortings of all the rest.

Yr. Pal,

Pogue

Re: Shirts
Hello, hello again.

I just found out the shipping service we use for next-day express deliveries wont ship to a PO Box, ugh.

So if you have another non-PO Box address I can ship to I'll be able to stick with the overnight shipping, otherwise I'll need to drop down to 'two day' shipping (which, if we get lucky, will still land on Wednesday but it may end up a day later).

Thanks much,
Jeremy

The Shadow: Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of men?

Stan Freberg: Helen Gurley Brown?

Copyright infringement
JUST JOHN: Yes, it is. In fact, the guys "mission statement" below even proclaims the fact. LOTS of good writers there, from Bradbury to John Irving to J.K. Rowling and Carl Sagan.

HERE'S WHAT THE LATEST THIEF (who links himself with "Project Guttenberg") HAS TO SAY:

Who is the Burgomeister?
The only thing you need to know about me is that I am a reader. For me, paper is passé.

Project Gutenberg covers the classics to c. 1929. But we lacked a truly free online source of late-20th century literature: those masterpieces by the great authors from the 1930s on. People like Fitzgerald, Hemingway, Chandler, Greene, Fowles, Burgess, King, Clarke, Ballard, and Le Carré.

So, my brief encompasses works published between 1930 and the present; to provide them freely, like Gutenberg, in universal textual form.

Thought is like the wind: it cannot be bottled and sold. Nourishment for the imagination must be free - free as in Liberty, free as in accessible to all, regardless of income or place in the pecking-order.

The Burgomeister is doing his small part to see that it is. Join me.

Proof-read a text, donate, or link to this page with some relevant content, and you can help. I will reciprocate gladly. Help me spread awareness of these wonderful books all across the Web. The more links to the Burgomeister's, the higher specific searches by people like us who value textual freedom will come.

And that benefits all readers.
Now, I've got one more thing to say to you:
if you like my books
Help keep them live and free.

ISN'T THIS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT?
Check out this website:

http://www.truly-free.org/

It doesn't have any of Harlan's works, but Asimov's and Bester's and Ballard's works are on it for free. Some conditional terms of service for downloading a max of five books, but I still fail to see how this is not copyright infringement. Can anyone enlighten me?

That is the answer I expected. I'll see what I can do.

The YouTube clip with Harlan & Meredith MacRae mentioned here over the last couple of days is NOT from the 1971 Canadian TV show, which Harlan wrote about in THE OTHER GLASS TEAT (see the 26 March 71 installment). It's labeled 1980 & looks like it's from an LA morning show.

Sadly...
Not that anyone much cares, but I won't be going to the Cleveland shindig.

After having talked to Ron at the Library 3 times (he was such a nice guy he called me this week to tell me that they will have extra seats in the lobby (I think) outside the theater and a live feed since that had been a concern of mine) and really trying my best to make it there, I just can't. It's too long a drive for me to make by myself and to fly there (my wife's very sweet suggestion since she can't go with me...she'll be studying for her Neurology Board Certification in Sleep) would have been over $600 no matter which airline I picked and that wouldn't count a room and a car. I tried asking friends to go and they all crapped out. I did my best.

In the grand scheme I know this isn't the end of the world or anything, but dammit, it's disappointing. I didn't even have anything in particular I wanted HE to sign. I just wanted to finally meet the man and say thanks. Thanks for the work and the inspiration and for getting me through hard times. Thanks for saying you'd be my best man at my wedding 5 years ago (nice of him to say to a perfect stranger/Webderland lurker who didn't have a pot to piss in let alone funds to bring him to the Midwest). Thanks for the audio recordings of your work (is it wrong that I could listen to HE read from a cook book or a road map and be completely enthralled?).

Good luck and good travels to anyone who goes. Take care.

REPLY TO MATT BODKIN AND / OR ANYONE ELSE

Re: that long long ago interview with Meredith, et al:

I would much appreciate a DVD of same, with the date of original telecast and other identifying provenance data, please, if available.

As to legality of getting one of these to me, well, I suspect that since it was televised in Canada, that the production company holding rights to the show never registered the show under U.S. copyright law; and I would think it a better than slam-dunk that the actual production company no longer exists; and it's more than 25 years since it was first telecast; and I am certain I asked for an off-line dub of the show--which they never sent me--and finally, if anyone out there (after I get a DVD of same) feels this is in any way not a legit request on my part, I will happily pay any credentialed complainant the reasonable amount due them.

Would somebody, now, cut me a copy for my non-commercial archive files...? Thank you.

Sedulously, Yr. Pal, Harlan

REPLY TO JEREMY KALGREEN

I is a happy camper!

Thank you so very much for the gracious reply. Please pardon my initial tone in the contact-letter, which was very slightly militant. One never knows what kind of response one will get when one points out to the vendor that they, er, uh, might be misappropriating. Forty per cent of the time, you get no reply at all; and you have to chase'm. Thirty per cent of the time you get a snotty reply in which they attest they don't give a shit and you can sue them...or they use as rationale some dribbet of urban legend or bogus bullshit legalese someone dropped on them, thereby transmogrifying them from Sammy the Sneak Thief into Samuel the Small Straight-Up Businessman. Twenty per cent of the time they just stop doing what they're doing, and they vanish.

But every once in a while--ten per cent or less--you joyously make contact with a mensch, and he says, yeah, well, okay, so how do we set this thing right? and you make a friend. And I don't put any restraints on friends making a buck. In fact, I try to help them do so.

And thus, I say thank you for the gracious reply, and I urge...nay...I no less than IMPLORE those of you who saw Josh's and my story of Bedzyk, Harmony Teat, Chucho Red and Samswope in "The Discarded," to flex on over to Jeremy's li'l mom'n'pop t-shirt shop, check out the extremely-clever and variegated goods thereat, and buy a swell I AM SAMSWOPE (or something else). It is A Good Thing to keep A Good Guy in business.

I am droolingly awaiting receipt of the goodies, Jeremy! We fly early Thursday morning for Cleveland, so Wednesday next is the drop-dead moment for me to be able to wear your product in front of the appreciative millions flocking to the Buckeye State for this panoramic pulsation. (Of course, I needed THREE, all different because: 1 for Josh, 1 for Susan-my-wife-and- honey, and 1 for me. It wasn't greed, Father Flanagan, it was dire necessity, and the threat of getting beat up by bullies if I didn't turn over my lunch money and my t-shirt.)

Thank you, Jeremy. Nice to meet you, and don't be a stranger.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Er, um...
HARLAN: Make that contrition for mine OWN fashion statements in the 70s! You, my child, must say 27 Hail Marys, do the hustle, and comb your hair like John Travolta in "Staying Alive" -- all while standing in your driveway wearing the Samswope t-shirt -- before any contrition is earned for those tangerine-colored slacks!

I descend, now, to the cellar of contentment to chant, say prayers and eat some chocolate, already.
--Brother DTS

The Harlan-Meredith McRae interview
FRANK: I remember seeing that as well, sometime ago when checking out a You Tube interview another person posted about here on this site. I noticed her obvious enjoyment of "Ellimeister" as well. Obviously one of the other folks who visited picked up on the subtle vibes, too (in truth, I think she was just a little excited about meeting a favorite author).

HARLAN: You didn't think I was gonna let many moons pass before lobbing a label back _your_ way, did ya? (Dormeister, indeed). By the by: if you still have those Halloween-flavored pants, my friend, have Susan burn 'em. Even I, who survived the fashion debacle of the 70s, was unnerved upon seeing them. Go and sin no more, my son.

With love and contrition (and crackle soon to come),
Dorman

To: Mr. Ellison Re: e-mail contact form
Hello, hello Mr. Ellison,

Jeremy Kalgreen here, the guy who runs Amorphia-Apparel.com

Thanks for dropping me a line, and I'm pleasantly surprised to hear you appear to be getting a kick out of the shirt I made in honor of your creation.

I'm a fan of your work, and so made it a point to catch that episode of MoSF. Soon my roommate and I found ourselves quoting Samswope (well, lil' Samswope) for days afterwards. The great thing about owning my own tee-shirt shop is that I don't have any boss breathing down my neck, so I can add a design just because I find it amusing without worrying if it'll be a blockbuster.

Of course you just never know how these pop-culture nods will be taken by the folks who's work I'm nodding at, so sometimes I have found myself wandering into a potential legal briarpatch.

I think my best defense historically has been simply to be so small as to be inconsequential. I once had shirt design featuring a parody of trademarked character that shall remain nameless. Well the folks that own the character ordered the design pulled and required me to turn over my sales records. Upon seeing my profit they decided to just drop the whole affair because, in their words, even if they bothered to recover the full amount of my profits from me it wouldn't even pay for an hour of time spent on behalf of their lawyers.

That was certainly a self esteem booster.

Well anyhow, just wanted to let you know I'm going to have some shirts sent out to you ASAP, and I certainly hope they will arrive in time for your appearance on Thursday. My store is entirely print-on-demand so I don't have any stock sitting around that could be mailed out today (in fact I'm in Columbus, Ohio but the shirt-mill that produces them is in PA.) However I've sent over an order out of my partner account and it should be produced in 48 hours or so, then be shipped 'next day air' to California. So if all goes well it will hopefully arrive on the 18th-19th which will hopefully work out with your schedule.

Thanks much,
Jeremy

Didn't clean up gaffes in that post because I had a fly in my mouth!

...it's the difference between talking a boner-fied scum bucket and someone who simply isn't too skilled with the language.

One point Frank MIGHT be trying to make, putting aside the debatable matter of Afghanistan, that most Americans readily forget that GOD knows HOW many innocent Iraqi civilians, from the very the day we put our dirty little toes in there, have died. MASSES beyond the count Hussein ever tallied.

We hear in the news daily that "another American soldier has lost his life"; but how invisible the very people are that this dipshit in the White House claims we've "freed".

It's been an issue on my mind more and more. Even a few days ago, on the 9/11 anniversary, in all honesty, the innocent lives lost that day in NY were only a sliver of the total lives I think about now. I've been feeling awful about the families in Iraq. I often imagine their trepidation knowing we were on our way, and the doom they themselves foresaw. I wonder if it's now worse than they even imagined that day.

You guys who chose to put your interpretation of Frank's post here, tell us how many Americans or how many in the media remind us of all that any day of the week.

I think it's demonstrative of the detachment America has from affairs elsewhere in the world.

Meredith MacRae Interview
I don't know if this will help, but...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lax0g5d6gM

Now, it could be put on DVD. Since it's for the interviewee, are there any copyright issues involved in the aforementioned burning?

Three weeks ago the mother of one of my son's friends was diagnosed with an evasive brain tumor best described by the oncologists at UW as grains of sand scattered throughout the portions of her brain that control vision and speech. She is a very pleasant lady; I've enjoyed her occasional company when carting kids around, swapping sleep-overs, etc.. Our sons are both 11. My son was the first friend her son made in school after the family relocated here from Boston after a nasty divorce.

I've kept in touch, offered support, and not run screaming into the night as many of her fair weather friends have done. Cancer's albatross hangs around her neck and most don't care to hang around for fear of a mystical contagion witched up by grey moths at midnight and cats' eyes flashing green. I'm no saint, but I won't turn my back on someone in need.

I spoke with her sister today and learned that Hospice has been brought in. Chemotherapy is not an option due to increased swelling on the brain, she isn't well enough to tolerate radiation, and she can't keep anything down. The seizures have begun. They're giving her less than a month.

Did I mention that both of our sons are 11?

I heard this and the first horrific image that popped into my head was our esteemed host as a young boy with a ball, a glove, and a wall.

Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.....



S.

Uh ...

(coughs softly to get attention)
(but not too much attention)

I reeeeleeeee don't want to get between any of you and Frank Church (who, honest to pete, guys, I think has a good heart), but if Frank or somebody could direct me to the location of that long-ago and not in my video-file interview with Meredith McRae, Susanne Sommers and Margot Kidder, I would be extremely grateful and, er, well, I'll just step back rill fast now, before someone pulls a trigger they'll regret.

Sheepishly, Yr. Pal, Harlan

REPLY TO FINDER / DOUG

Yo, Lane:

Ron A. of the CLEVELAND, OHIO CONSECRATION & CHOWDER FESTIVITY venue is reading this. Contact him and have him give you the supersecret death-before-disclosing WatchTheFuckOutForSnipers name of whereat the mizzus and I will be bunking. When you get inna town, call the joint, leave your hotel name and number and room affiliation, so we can include you in from the jump.

Meaning no offense to others of you who are not as close to me as my rat-wombat offspring, illegitimate Lane. I trust you understand my stand-offishness. Greatness forces such behavior on me.

Charmingly, Yr. Pal, Harlan

REPLY TO STEVE BARBER

No.

And no.

-he

You're a condescending boob, Frank.

Frank Church

"We have sympathy as long as you have sympathy for the six hundred thousand so far who have died in Iraq. That trumps 9/11 in a clip."

Is your ability to feel compassion really that conditional? Do you honestly feel that human suffering is a game of one-upsmanship? Murder A is somehow better then Murder B? These victims suffer nobly, but those others got what was coming to them?

That logic, in a nutshell, seems to me to be exactly what's wrong with us as a species.

Frank,

Re: the last parts of your latest post.

You are acting quite piggish. Please save it for other places.

Just John the neocon, Counterpunch is one of the last bastions of honest journalism anywhere as well as my prized favorite, Zmag.org. Garcia was going after the left not the right in his article. It is a sad clique of paranoid triffids who think that everything can be explained easily away by some secret government buggaboos. The government rarely does anything well in secret and when they do it gets leaked fairly fast.

Polls were done after 9/11 and most blacks didn't even want us to go to Afghanistan, and rightly so. Whites have always been the ones who have been taken in by right wing jingoism. Black Americans know that the government is not their friend, especially during a war, where they rightly see that urban issues are neglected, for want of the fake war on error, I mean terror.

We have sympathy as long as you have sympathy for the six hundred thousand so far who have died in Iraq. That trumps 9/11 in a clip.

See, john, we have a democracy, different kinds of people actually get their say as well. Does that sit well?

Have a nice day.

-----------

The Stanley Wiater , Dark Dreams interview of Harlan is on YouTube. Good stuff.

I also saw part of the Meredith MacRae interview she did with our man. Boy, Harlan, she wanted you bad. She was flirting up a blue streak.

She wore a bit too much makeup but she was sure hot.

Steve - Social requirements? Gods, man - we can't talk about the Seven Smectic Rituals of Tunis Teng in an unsecure forum!

Man, the Jade Marmoset is a'gonna be pissed...

I plan on settling into my room after my drive, maybe catching a quick nap, and then rooting around for some grub and my third cup of coffee of the day (because I'm a full-on addict since school began and sleep and I got divorced), potentially with others of the tribe, as prelude to arriving at the library neither obscenely early nor S.O.L. late. The sole alteration to that plan which I would make is for:

SUSAN: If you need a veteran Box-Schlepping Blue Monkey, give a shout. I'm billeted on Friday just across the street and up a block or so from the venue.

Eastern Promises, uh, Frank?
I'm pretty sure Frank was just making an odd joke, but on the off chance he wasn't...Frank, you are aware that, much as Josh was busy adapting the graphic novel A HISTORY OF VIOLENCE long before Cronenberg became attached to the project, EASTERN PROMISES was an original screenplay of Stephen Knight's that was written a couple of years ago, also without Cronenberg's presence? It's not like Cronenberg decided to do a film called EASTERN PROMISES and then cast around for a writer to take the job. You are aware of that, right Frank? Sure you are. Of course you are. Just checkin' on ya, big guy.

Jason

Dress code?
You mean, like with an airline or something??
Wear pants. Or a skirt or a dress or a kilt. Wear something on top. And shoes of some sort. Asbestos ear muffs, if you got 'em.

Ron Antonucci
Cleveland Public Library

Cleveland
You people and your Cleveland, Ohio... For a second I thought that the impossible had happened, and that Mr. Ellison was coming to Cleveland, MS. I don't know why I thought this, because My Cleveland is a horrible, horrible place and no one should ever come here. For that one second though, it was a great place to be.

I wish all who are going a great time in Greater Cleveland. Eat a steak or don't.

-Zack

The Cleveland Event

HARLAN, ANYONE, ANYONE, BEUHLER?

I've been asked by a couple of our quieter Webderlanders if I know if there is expected to be any kind of dress code or other social requirements at the Cleveland event. Also, if there is any suggestion of a get-together?

If anyone can answer either of the above, please post here or on the Forum. Wish I could join y'all.

The Internet

Writer Poppy Z. Brite posts a blog at the following address: http://docbrite.livejournal.com/

A few days ago she posted a longish blurb about her feelings on the internet, pro and con, and I thought the group might enjoy reading them. They dovetail nicely with what many have stated here in the past on the same subject.

"One thing I am trying diligently to do is not make it any harder on myself with unnecessary bullshit, such as one encounters so frequently on the Internet. In the past week I've tangled with two online strangers who made me feel really crappy for reasons I don't understand. (I mean that in two ways: I don't understand why they felt the need to say the things they did, and I don't understand why I allowed such stupid things from people I didn't know, will never know, and don't care about to make me feel so crappy.) Short of not being online at all, it's hard to see how I could have avoided either of them: one was actually trying to compliment me in a mind-bogglingly clumsy way, and the other was responding to a friend's jokey journal post which was itself a response to my jokey journal post, a situation in which I honestly didn't think anybody would be deliberately ugly to me (naive fool that I am).

I trained myself out of ego-surfing a couple of years ago and have stuck to it religiously, but I'm realizing now that if you make yourself available on the Internet at all, you are going to encounter people who will try to make you feel like shit, and will sometimes succeed. This may be somewhat more true if you have any kind of public profile, but I think it's probably true of Joe Smith from East Butthole, too -- eventually he will say something that somebody, somewhere, doesn't like, and the anonymity and basically anarchistic nature of the Internet will cause that person to say something horrible to him, something they'd never say to his face -- not so much because they'd be scared to as because most people simply don't treat each other that way in real life. For that matter, I probably wouldn't walk up to Jack Leonardi or John Be$h and say, "Hey, you know what, your food fuckin' sucks." The Internet is a useful thing, but it has made none of us better people.

There's nothing to be done about all this. I don't want to stop keeping this journal, and I don't want to stop making myself available to the kind-hearted, interesting people I meet online because of the few assholes. I'm just going to chalk it up to a bad week in general, try to reduce my online time for a bit, and crawl back into bed with my nice two-volume hardcover set of Michael McDowell's Blackwater saga (which, incidentally, was a gift from a friend I met on the Internet)."

Harlan -
Just slouched, bleary-eyed and barely conscious, into work, to see your post - missed it last night, will call later today once you're arisen.
Best
Jes

A MAJOR FASHION STATEMENT

Several days ago, Keith Addis, Producer of MASTERS OF SCIENCE FICTION, whereon appeared only last Saturday a week, Josh's and my script of "THE dISCARDED," called me to hip me to a new vendor site where an entrepreneurial savant has put up for sale
a series of t-shirts in various colors that might be of interest not only to Ellison afficianados, but as well to those among you dying to dress in style.

These t-shirts are one-color, but up in the front, right up at the right shoulder, appears a dialogue balloon, and the balloon
--the fumetti, if you will--reads as follows:

I AM SAMSWOPE1!

I don't know if this is the fasest-of-all-time tranmutation from pop remark to cultural icon, but it's got to be at leasst ONE of the swiftest. I have no idea if the vendor is planning to sharfe the wealth with Josh and me, but I cannot wait to get one of these, to wear it proudly, maybe even in Cleveland next week.

If you're interested, here's the ramadoola:

www.amorphia-apparel.com.

(Go to Page 6 --the last page -- of the t-shirt index.)

I haven't seen one yet, but I think this extremely cool.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Chris from St. Lois,

Right there with ya!


S.

Manuel Garcia's full of it
Re Robert Morales's link to manuel Garcia's essay on 9-11:
Garcia borders on being an apologist for the terrorists who killed close to three thousand innocent people, and he's far too preoccupied with race. Comments like this: "Isn't it amazing that non-white "natives" from far away can make so many white people in the most powerful white people's country scared?" suggest he is a racist himself. It wasn't just white people who died, nor is it just white people who care about what happened on 9-11, nor are their monolithic perceptions of 9-11 in this country based solely on race. I agree that the conspiracy theorists are nuttier than good old Aunt Gertrude's Christmas fruitcake, but I am singularly unimpressed with Gonzales' logic and viewpoint regarding the origins of 9-11. Considering some of the other drivel on that website, though, I can't say I'm surprised.

Harlan,

Just sent Jes Bickham a note, asking him to contact you ASAP

Mark

JES BICKHAM ----- JES BICKHAM

Please call me again. Another way to go.

Harlan

Thought I'd squeeze in with something for the adults...

Woman says to her husband, "I bet I can make you feel good and bad at the same time."

Husband says, "Go ahead."

Woman says, "You have a much bigger dick than your brother."

Garcia's 9/11 Counterpunch Article

I see some sense in what Garcia says, but I think his notion that the only two views about the 9/11 attacks are conspiracy theories (which he feels are wrong) and the blowback hypothesis (which he agrees with) is much too narrow.

I think maybe religious extremism had a role to play.

Also, Garcia seems to think that anyone still effected by 9/11 must be driven entirely by the fear of losing their middle-class possessions.

Speaking only for myself, the reason I am still haunted by that day is that I had never before seen anyone murdered. In the course of a very short time I saw 3000 people murdered.

I think about how frightened the people on those hijacked planes must have been. I think about the people who had to choose between being burned alive and jumping from the 90th floor. I think about the people who lost family or friends.

I'm not worried about losing my car or my stuff. But I am, even now, deeply, deeply saddened by the things I saw that day.

Cindy, believe me, your eleven year old daughter hears much worse in school; the movie Superbad is about how school dialogue is these days; maybe not at eleven years old.

-------------

I will prove that smarts is not all it's cracked up to be.

Chris Hitchens was on C-Span and he was asked about favorite books and he said that he didn't much care for Science Fiction, mainly because he thought that fears of technology were better served in non-fiction.

An timely note of sanity
http://www.counterpunch.org/garcia09122007.html

No other piece has summed up my feelings toward "9/11 denial" so well.

Chris,
That is BEAUTIFUL. Such a treasure you have shared!
:)
Smiling-- beaming even at his joke
I am,
Cindy

Hydrogen and Idiocy?
That sounds vaguely familiar.

Let me rephrase that quickly - it would be a good reason, of course, if there was truth to it. That may have been around the time you sued Cameron.

Oh, and I was told - this you may know - both volumes of DANGEROUS VISIONS were released in the 90s as one hardcover volume (I wonder how small the typeface was), and it's now very hard to find.

That covers all your Italian books. Obviously, I saw some old anthologies with your stories in it as well, edited by Asimov etc. or by Italian publishers.

Harlan: OK, he didn't have Shatterday (only his personal copy), but he sent me to the publisher (also here in Rome), and they had a copy left. The whole line of books has gone out of print. Shatterday was released in 1999 by Fanucci and it's called IDROGENO ED IDIOZIA (the two most common elements in the universe, some say). Has a nice Italian afterword.

It turns out the collector talked to a translator (a woman) a while back who was responsible for of one of the old SF lines of books. They never did publish you, and he asked them why that is, and he was told (and he told me) that there you were rumored to give publishers a hard time and take people to court. That's why they didn't have any of your books in that particular line. Anyway, that's what the translator said. Not much of a reason, ey?

More next time.

Jan

"Klute...Excellent, excellent film from 1971 written, produced and directed by Harlan Ellison."

Just John & Harlan reply, respectively:

*"What the hell is he talking about?

I guess somewhere on this forum there must be a connection that I missed."

**"That makes two of us."

Rob clarifies:

Well...much like a Dubyah speech, it had absolutely no connection with anything whatsoever - to Alan J. Pakula's relief, I'm sure.

I'd spent a couple days prior browsing the Web, stumbling across a number of factual errors now and then on topics like authors and politicians.

Ever bored in this hour, and inspired by the reckless data out there, I thought I'd pay homage to the rumor mills Harlan has to put up with so often...without indicating my intentions, of course.

I'm thoughtful that way.

Yet...how much ya wanna bet "Harlan's involvement with KLUTE" will show up in Wikipedia in a week from now?

Joke
Cindy-- I don't post very often but I liked your kid's joke. I never heard it before but it reminded me of the first and only joke my son ever told me. He was ten.


Q:What's the difference between roast beef and pea soup?


A: Anyone can roast beef.

He's autistic so it's a delightful surprise that he has a sense of humor. This joke tickled him so much that for several days after he would stop in the middle of whatever he was doing, look at me and say "pea soup, that was funny, huh?"

Chris

My eleven year old daughter, Paris, came in the other evening and said she had made up a joke all by herself.
She says, " Wanna hear it?"

"Sure," says I.

Paris says, " What kind of gun does a urinal carry?"

(I'm a little taken aback by the urinal thing, but--) I say,
" I don't know."
She says, " A pistol".

Then she got down like it was the funniest thing she'd ever heard in her life and I-- well, I commended her on her cleverness... 'cause you got to admit that's pretty good for a fifth grader. I told her if she tells it at school she'll probably get detention.

I know she thinks about things. I was running through my mind how she could even know there was such a thing as a urinal then I remembered; I once took her into the (empty) mens room at a convenience store because there was a line for the ladies room. Hey, it had a lockin' door and she had to go.

That's got to be an old joke-- but I swear I don't think I've heard it before. Any of y'all ever?

OOPS #1: Double click. Sorry. Palsy.

OOPS #2: There should have been one of these

)

at the end of that sentence.

THANKYOU #2: Peg. Thanks. Jes called.

Mmmmm, well, I believe that's everything, at the moment.

-he

JAN:

Haven't checked, but it can't hurt to have an extra copy of all three, if he also has SHATTERDAY. (In fact, I cannot remember ever granting a reprint right to SHATTERDAY in Italy.

So, yeah, send one, two, or three. Will recompense.

And keep your eye open in Spain!

And, as always, thankyou.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

JAN:

Haven't checked, but it can't hurt to have an extra copy of all three, if he also has SHATTERDAY. (In fact, I cannot remember ever granting a reprint right to SHATTERDAY in Italy.

So, yeah, send one, two, or three. Will recompense.

And keep your eye open in Spain!

And, as always, thankyou.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

To Barney (and any other LibraryThingers)

You don’t have Harlan as a favorite author?!!!

Come on. Tolkein is # 1 with 435 people listing as favorite. Rowling has 382. C.S Lewis has 178. 38 people have included Harlan. We can all do better than that. (And there are others here who are on LibraryThing that do not have Harlan as a favorite.)

Let’s get Harlan to the top of the list. (From the people who brought you "Honest, I have better things to do with my life.")

(If anyone cares, my list is under user name Figre).

Mike

2nd Post to Respond to Harlan
I've pinged Jes electronically (and did so on your previous request as well).

addenda
a question mark after "two of you" ? grrr. - b.

Ellisonalia Ephemera Italia!
*** Jan *** IF (I stress IF) Harlan does not want those I'll take both of those. I can Paypal you or we can work something out.

Also, was there a German stand alone edition of MEFISTO? Not in a magazine but in book form? Let me know if you ever spot one.

Just entered my 546th Ellison item on Library Thing. That's counting things like Adam Bedside Reader and the Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction as ***ONE*** item each - even though they'll actually represent dozens. Only 9 more boxes to go. Wheee!

http://www.librarything.com/profile/Dannelke

*******************************************************

Harlan,

Did you ever meet John Fante or are there any points of intersection with the two of you. I know I'm coming to this fellow a bit late but was just presented with the Fante Reader (2003) and thought I sensed a little bit of a kindred writing spirit.

- Barney

Your singing voice, not you singing voice. Sheesh. Blame the crack.

Barber, welcome back my love. Cris can't have you, you must be mine. Luvbisquit.

White Zinfandel, yes, goes good for when I myself eat babies. Those little bones sometimes get in your throat. Terrible, makes you singing voice oh so trebly.

A toast to the Barbers, jazz, wine and camera flash blindness.

Cris, hope the album sells oodles. Get this mook a decent job.

-----------

Josh, you didn't write Eastern Promises, what gives?

I used to not like Viggo much, now the guy really grows on ya. He has those demonic eyes, but uses them very well, like a scientist looking for the aids virus.

-----------

Pegster, welcome back. oil priestess.

(In other words, are you conscious of the environment as grist for your mill, or do you ignore it?)

Very concious. Every nuance, every sight, smell, odd hint of sensory input, stray breeze, you name it, it's filed away whether by choice or unconcious intent. For myself, how can I not find said grist? I gave up trying to quiet the grumblings of the mill as it chews on yet another thought and my imagination is much happier for it. And sometimes my creditors, too.

My sister forwarded on this You Tube video, which is either one of the funniest videos I have seen in a long time or one of the most pathetic. I cannot decide which. It is titled I Gotta Love You Rosh Hashanah

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOTOdBzSpYc

Before I head out for the day, I wanted to wish everyone a very Happy Rosh Hashanah, l'shanah tovah!

HARLAN: Currently in Italy. Need the old Italian editons of LAND OF FEAR or PAINGOD (both in nice condition, $6 and $12, don't remember which was which)? Just checking. The bookseller told me he read both, as well as the Italian SHATTERDAY.
Next week I'll be in Spain, but since you live near Mexico...
Jan

JES BICKHAM ----- JES BICKHAM

What's happening? Plz call or put a post here...former more convenient than latter. But either way, please advise me ASAP as to the status of the DEATH RAY interview.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

yup
Steve-
Speaking for myself, I carry a cameraphone (too poor for a decent digital; and if I were flush, I'm not tech-savvy enough to use one) and a small reporter's notebook everywhere. I note odd sights, events, historical markers, whatever could serve as grist for the mill. And thanks...I need to wander off and do some digging on a site from this weekend.

Coming up for air from the world of works-by-day, learns-by-night with:

a) very belated Anniversary wishes for Harlan and Susan, in whose honor I carved into the flesh of an old Ash tree a bee-YOU-tiful heart, with intricate filigre work around the edges and "HARLAN-N-SUSAN 4EVER" at the center. Cuter than a bucket of puppies. Induced a diabetic coma in a passing tourist. Not that the Park Service appreciated my little addition to the tours of the Capitol grounds, but I figure my taxes, my trees. By the by, does anyone know where Lewisburg is? They said something about a long vacation while I was being processed...

b) Completely off-radar until this morning: heard that Nellie McKay's third album, "Obligatory Villagers", arrives in stores September 25th; she's got several dates scattered coast to coast to promote it, including one here in the DC area week after next and a pair in October in LA (at Largo, October 11/12 - it's on her website, but not theirs; not yet).

c) Mark - from what I gather, the U.N.C.L.E. set will be a year-long direct sale through Time-Life (a la "Get Smart"), followed by retail sale by Warner Home Video in 2008 (where it will probably be broken down into Season sets). Series box allegedly will be 105 episodes on 39 DVDs, over 8 hours of bonus features, and may include the original unaired pilot, "Solo" (which screened during the last six months on American Family Life). Pre-orders through Time-Life were rumored to be opening in mid-September, with a November release. As all of this was leaked by an 'anonymous source', so take it with the appropriate grains of salt.

And I'm 95% a "go" for Cleveland on the 21st. School could still sink the trip, depending on workload, but at least I got the day off from the paying job for the drive. What's a six hour drive each-way between friends?

Howdy kids. Back from safari in Northern California (I kid you not, and that leftover scent of Zinfandel is only partly damning). I learned many lessons, the most profound of which is "don't sneeze around the zebras".

Evidence of said giraffe-age coming shortly.
____________________________________

As to Harlan's "Photo's do not Lie" reverse-assertion. Yeah - they do. Like rugs.

But evidently not in Josh's little sequence.
____________________________________

And, speaking of photos: I have an open question to all of the writers on the board.

I feel compelled, some times irresistably, to drag my camera along and document moments and sights and events as they occur on our trips. Not haphazardly; but compulsively. There are several people on this board who can attest to my obsession.

I'm wondering -- Harlan, Jes, Josh, Adam-Troy, Dorman, Tally and the rest -- if writers who are NOT travel-specific suffer from the same relative compulsion, or do you actually let your creative selves "rest" when surrounded by this sort of dynamic input? Erik, does it affect filmmakers?

(In other words, are you conscious of the environment as grist for your mill, or do you ignore it?)

(Always wanted to know...)

belateds
Was off the board for a week or two; geez are the folks here prolific. (Took hours to catch up last night!!)

Tom and Harlan, belated condolences on Joe's passing. A good man, well remembered by you both.

Harlan and Susan - most hearty (if belated) congrats on the continued sheer unadulterated bliss of your union. ;-)

Peg

JUST JOHN:

That makes two of us.

Harlan

What the hell is he talking about?
"Klute...Excellent, excellent film from 1971 written, produced and directed by Harlan Ellison."

Huh?!? I guess somewhere on this forum there must be a connection that I missed.

This last weekend I saw KLUTE for the first time.

Excellent, excellent film from 1971 written, produced and directed by Harlan Ellison.

Shows he could have gone on to do great stuff if he'd continued in this medium!

riposte
Tom Hensley: My wife's immediate response to that line was "Which one's which?" A-TC

DORMAN:

We're here throughout both those windows of dates. Crackle crackle, baby.

Harlan

The best line I heard today
From a couple we know:

"We're trying to decide whether to get a dog or have another baby. It comes down to whether we want to ruin our carpet or ruin our lives."

A Question for Harlan and the Electric Babe (nice photos!)
HEY HARLAN AND SUSAN,
SUSAN AND HARLAN: You guys gonna be kicking your feet up in (and around) Wonderland the week of September 23-29th (or, failing that, the week of Sept. 30-October 6th)? I was planning on sending something (perishable) your way and wanted to make sure you'll be there to receive it. (No worries: You'll love it. After all, who DOESN'T want a baby kitten wandering around the household?)

All best,
Dorman

Canada
HARLAN:
"We ate it."

A modest final solution after the proposal?

Happy couple
Thanks for the photo's of the happy couple.
You can really tell they're still in love, after all these years.

Ron Antonucci

I emailed Ron Antonucci to let him know the front page shows that the Ellison presentation is on a Sunday, which it is not. It is Friday. He obviously already knows that.

=====

I noticed that Alex Jay Berman figured out how many days Harlan and Susan have been married. I double checked (anal like that) his work to make sure he included Leap Days. He had. Good work!

FYI: Ellison's appearance at Cleveland Public Library
I understand there was some concern about the "limited" seating for Harlan Ellison's appearance at Cleveland Public Library on Friday, September 21st. We are going to hook up a live feed to a monitor in the lobby outside of the auditorium, thereby increasing our capacity by 125-150. Add that to the 325 in the auditorium and we should have plenty room.

Mr. Ellison will be here. There will be a live presentation as well as a screening of the documentary, "Dreams with Sharp Teeth." Go to www.cpl.org. Click through to the Literature Department for more info. If that doesn't work, call (216) 623-2881 or just email me.

Thanks.
Ron Antonucci

DAVEY C.:

Your marbles are safe, kiddo. Twib. Soooo-pah! I shall file that in the Wondrous New Words folio. Thank you.

Harlan

Cry UNCLE and other items.
Warner Bros/Time Life are going to be releasing a megaset of The Man from UNCLE series this fall. From my sources it will be for sale an internet only item, most likely at the TIME/LIFE website. When I have more details I will post them. It will be nice to see in a very long time, quality prints of Harlan's "UNCLE" episodes.

A bit of a SHE update. KINO, probably one of the best, if not the best restoration companies when it comes to silent films, have joined up with LEGEND film to bring out a special edition of the Meriam C. Cooper production of SHE. There will be the restored Black and White version, the Ray Harryhausen supervised colorized version and a host of extras.

I was attending the Richard Thompson concert at the Fillmore in San Francisco and amidst all the requests for songs that were screamed from the crowd somone yelled 'HARLAN'S BOUNCE!" Ok, I yelled it. It got a grin from Thompson, an amused stare and then he said "There seems to be at least one of you at every concert. You are going to like the film." Really, if you have not hear Thompson's work outside of his theme for DWST, then you need to check out his latest CD "Sweet Warriors", (especially "Dad is goinf to kill me" a great song about the war that would be a radio classic any other time) or go to his website and checkout his music. I suggest a 'official bootleg' "Two Letter Words" which has some of his best songs and gives a good sample of how he is live.

Please allow a tardy but heartfelt congratulations to Harlan and Susan on their nupital celebrations.

It has been a while since I've perused this website and Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion, and I'm glad I did...I've now learned three new words:

dithyramb
contumely
exegisis

Mr. Ellison, you've done it again...once again, my brain cells are awake! Only here can I get this sort of thing...I sorely missed this place!

I also add (belatedly) my best wishes on your wedding anniversary...you give me hope that I have a fighting chance at finding a good man...now if he would just stop hiding! :D

In plainer language, Harlan is TRYING to say,

"Ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ow-ooooooooooowwwwwwww....!!!"

ATC, "been getting" means you're responding. Either admit that any attention for a writer's writing is good attention, or ignore the twerp.

One Last Comment on Dreams, Honest
Harlan,

First, though, I have a quote for you about a recent costar. Discussing Brian Dennehy’s fine work in F/X, Pauline Kael said that Dennehy was the kind of actor John Wayne would have been had John Wayne been an actor. (No disrespect to Watching, but PK was the best.)

In Dreams, you talked briefly about the pulps, but you didn’t mention something that’s been worrying me for a few years now: what will fill the vacuum the pulps leave behind. Looking back at my recent bedside reading, a good three-fourths came either from writers who emerged from the pulps (Donald Westlake, Lawrence Block and of course, John D. MacDonald), or from their European antecedents (Wodehouse, Dumas, etc.).

I don’t want to romanticize the quality of these old paperbacks and magazines – most of it wasn’t very good – but it instilled a sense of craft, a commitment to giving the reader value for his money. I recently read a couple of MacDonald books, one about a magical time-slowing watch, the other about a corporate convention. Both books had the standard MacDonald quality of writing and depth of character, but what really struck me was the commitment to details that most writers wouldn’t bother with, like the mechanics of moving frozen bodies or the politics of setting up a hospitality suite.

I have read dozens of MacDonald books. He never insulted my intelligence. None of his characters ever acted inconsistently just to advance a plot. He treated his readers with respect.

There are plenty of insults and disrespect these days, but what’s worse is that no one seems to mind. Critics are fed a steady diet of clichés and plot holes and all they can do is smile and mumble “Thank you, sir. May I have another?”

When the lazy bastards behind 24 pitched produced and aired (aired!) the first half of a heavily plotted thriller before bothering to work out the ending, no critic posted a threatening letter to Fox. And when watching a screening of the Matrix, no reviewer stood up and shouted “A human battery? That’s the best you could come up with? A battery?”

To go back to the well one more time, Kael said that a certain film “reminded you of cliches you didn’t know you knew.” She was offended by that kind of shoddy workmanship – why aren’t the rest of us?

Take care,
Mark

p.s. Aren’t you glad I didn’t make everyone sit through this rant as part of a Q & A session?

Harlan,

You had it coming.

Love,

Mr. Knows Which Side His Bread Is Buttered On

I can't stop. Ach mein gott, I swear, I cannot stop.

Does this mean the lovebirds were having...(must .............resist..............)

Trouble with Twibbles?

Don't hate me! I was just--
GAAaaAAACCcckKKKCKPPHhBBhbbPPpbBBThhhHTH!!! ----------------

--------------------TRANSMISSION ENDED------------------------

Happy Belated Anniversary
It's great to see that a relationship, a romance, a marriage mentioned and chronicled in ways large and small over the years, is just as alive and vibrant today as in the Reagan Era.

Congratulations Susan & Harlan.

EAR-FLICKING

For some reason, that action is called a Twib.

Ahem.

Mr. Olson.

Rather than entering into a dithyramb of contumely, I would ask that you EXPLAIN the sequence of "yes, photos DO lie, sometimes"
action recently posted by yourself -- sans synopsis -- as "our own little lovebirds." Kindly do not fail to include in your exegesis the "flickage" perpretated by Mrs. Ellison in the shot you did NOT get, in the moment preceding the first shot you DID get. Said initial image warping, by its exclusivity, the true measure of the proceedings in progress.

You can also omit what I called her, fomenting the subsequent brutal "ear-flickage" of a Battered Husband. However, you have my permission to append the fumetti-caption "OWW-WOWW-OUCHH!" to tertius in the congeries of images captured there in front of Mogo's Mongolian Barbeque on Thursday 6 September 2007.

Respectfully,

MISTER (to you, punk) Harlan Ellison

Harlan & Susan
Heartfelt (if slightly belated) congratulations to you both on your 21st anniversary. May you be blessed with many more. In today's throw away world, twenty-one years is a long time to be married, although, from the looks I've seen beaming from both of your faces, it has obviously not seemed long to either of you. To me--having never achieved marriage at all--your fine union seems like a beautiful accomplishment indeed. The world feels like a better, happier place when I contemplate such a partnership.
Very best wishes,
Laurie

Xenogenesis
Been getting nasty e-mail from a reader today, because of a two-year old negative (actually, letter grade C), review of Rakph Bakshi's always gamey, and now increasingly dated, animated film WIZARDS.

Now, even if you happen to *like* WIZARDS...I frankly think I let it down easy...it's a movie he likes that I was lukewarm about and managed to say a few good things about. That I was paid to review.

With everything else that's going on in the world, this is what engages this loon's wrath.

Xenogenesis...!

Harlan and Susan
LATE congratulations are never as good as those that arrive on time, but I hope you'll accept mine anyway.

Thanks, Josh: just when the anniversary talk had reminded me of Emil Sitka, trying to perform a marriage ceremony for the Three Stooges and their prospective wives. He'd begin with "Hold hands, you lovebirds" before getting clopped in the head-- and each time he'd begin again, his recitation'd be more and more, well, _wavering_, and his eyes'd go cross, and...

Courtesy of some of that newfangled iTech, here's a little anniversary memento of our own little lovebirds:

http://gallery.mac.com/josholson#100046

KELL:

After four less-than-terrific marriages, I too was against the institution. And would be still, had she not forced me, at point of shotgun, to wed. But ... had to, y'know ... I was bearing her childe.

We ate it.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

Canada
Late to the party again I'm afraid.

Happy Anniversary Susan and Harlan.

While I'm against the institution on principle I have the highest regard for those who have managed to make that flawed invention work so well.

Happy Anniversary
Sending our belated best wishes to you both via virtual ducks-and-drakes across the pond. Hope Friday went well!

Rob and Paul E.
xx

Happy Belated Anniversary to Harlan and Susan
Sorry I missed it...but I was out of town helping a friend get ready for his big day in November. Many many more...Much love to you both

A belated congratulations and Happy Anniversary to Harlan and Susan, and to Sandra and her mate.

Mazel Tov to you all!

Mark

peeking in


i have been w/o internet service for quite a while, sorry for the belated anniversary congrats to you two Ellisons!

Rick

SUSAN & HARLAN (forever ampersanded together, agog in grammatical glee):
Sure, I'm late in wishing you a happy anniversary--but please accept my sincerest and fondest wishes that this, your 7,673rd day together being bound by bonds of bliss as well as law, be the happiest of them all--and that each successive day, week, month, year, and geographical epoch you spend together proves even happier for you both.

Happy Anniversary
Late, but heartfelt!

Playing Catch-Up
Hello All,

popped in Saturday morning after a long hiatus to catch-up on the happenings and learned of Joe Hensley's death. I was caught off-guard, and was in a hurry, but I would now like to add my voice to the chorus of condolences, even if it is so very late.

And here I am, fresh back from Taos, New Mexico, land of skulls and strange varmints, (where I shared a stage with Chuck Pyle at Michael Hearne's Barn Dance,) learning of Harlan and Susan's 21st anniversary. Has it been that long? Not possible. Congratulations!

I did sit down with Chuck for a moment, and told him of Harlan's admiration of his work, and he said, "The writer? I'm honored." He's a very nice, and extremely laid-back gentleman. Like Colorado Whiskey, a local treasure.

So...I'll try not to wait so long before checking back next time. Hoping you're all well, Bret

PS: Last week I managed to watch Richard Thompson's "1000 Years of Popular Music" directed by Erik Nelson, and recommend it without reservation. You can order it from RT's web-site "Beeswing." (I got to meet Richard Thompson at the Writer's Guild premier of "Sharp Teeth," and though I could barely get out an "I love you," I did manage to give him a copy of my book. As a fan, it was a huge thrill.)

And Paul, congratulations on your impending nuptials. Will I see you in Austin next March? -B

As long as we're passing along the good vibes...

I'd like to express my appreceation to our Web Host, Pavilion creator and cleaner-up-of-schmootz such at the postings by Pupa or Putz or Puta or whatever this spambot calls itself, Rick Wyatt.

Thanks Rick for putting this place together, for the many hours of enjoyment I've gotten from being able to not only experience Unca Harlan and Lady Susan, but all the rakehells, hoydens and ne'er-do-wells that make up the community here on the web.

I love the lot 'o ya, guys. This is one of the places where the infobahn pays off for me.

Thanks, Rick. Many kudos in your general direction.

And now if you'll excuse me, dinner's ready. Beef kabob. Mmmm.

Chuck

Before the Anniversary high completely passes, I, for one, would like to apologize for the lameness of my own post yesterday, which missed the intended gravitas.

Let's just attribute its second part to a hang-over from the prior evening; ANYTHING seems relevant and amusing when it feels like an anvil is sitting on your head.

So, wipe the blackboard clean - that's it! - and I'll just write,

'GLAD you had a great Anniversary and hope it's one you'll remember!'

Hoping I redeemed myself from a brain fart,

Rob

Cordwainer Smith
Harlan, thanks for replying quickly. I considered talking to Ajay early on when researching the piece, but was told he hasn't been well, so I decided not to bother him with trivialities.

The next issue of HELIX SF goes live October 1, and the article will be there in all its glory (almost all of it due to the subject, not the singer).

Happy Happy
Happy Anniversary two days plus to youse loverly peoples. Harlan and Susan.

Happy Happy! Ta Ra Boom De Ay!

Mine own Susan adds her best wishes.

We're inked for a February initiation of Nuptial Hostilities. That is, if we can ever find a locaton that she likes and we can afford (her first choice was a $10K fee just for the building...I suggested we make a down payment and simply buy the place instead...)

Meanwhile your Cleveland Indians are ripping it up and maybe this is the year...

After all Boston did it, and the Cubs are in first place too.

There's just not enough good Sf about baseball.

Which leads to my question: in a schoolbook reader in California, probably the fifth grade about 1963, there was a reprint of a story about a man who stands one day in the 1920s on the sidewalk outside Yankee Stadium, and catches a ball that Babe Ruth has just hit over the stands and into the street.

Man places ball into his coat pocket, and soon thereafter hears a soft, low voice moaning and lamenting its' great pain.

Turns out it's the baseball, which claims it was hit so hard that it will never let a bat touch it again.

So the man starts a career as a barnstorming baseball pitcher who can't be hit. The bat leery ball literally swings and sways through the air avoiding any bat swung at it.

I don't recall how the story ended, nor its' title or author. I would really love to know all that.

Any help or clues out there?

KOS

It has been a ponderous weight of a week just past, despite the sheer momentary joy of our union's anniversary on the 7th, and so -- yet again, one more time -- the trilling songbirds of your Good Wishes outside this house of the Two Little People has cheered, ensmiled, and sustained us. We both thank you, and crimp your claws in camaraderie.

Yr. Pal, Harlan Ellison

Of course, I meant to say 21!
It just seemed more poetic to round it off to the nearest decade.

Anniversity
I just dropped in to see if I could find someone to provide hosting services for storing graphical images and digital pictures, but decided to post a message instead.

I'd like to be potentially the last here to offer my anniversary best wishes to Harlan and Susan.

Sarah and I remember our 20th anniversary particularly well, because some friends threw a party for us, and made up a wonderful video based on our wedding pictures and other early-marriage shots, all narrated hilariously by the late Phil Hartman. That will have been 25 years ago at the end of this month, so we've added a lot of miles to our marital vehicle since then, but by keeping it lubed up and the windshield clean, we feel confident that we can keep it running for a long time to come.

At an early age, I deduced that my brother's long-term plan was to find a good woman, marry her, and stay married as long as possible. That seemed like a sensible plan to me, so I've tried to make it my own. So far, so good.

I recall that we attended a long-ago wedding of yours which took place in a back yard in Van Nuys. I can't recall the year, but I'm guessing that it was not the union which subsequently took root so majestically. Obviously you have sorted out things admirably since then, and bravo to you for it. Twenty years of marriage would draw a round of applause on any talk show I ever saw.

I'm pretty sure, Harlan, that in your next twenty years together, you will find yourselves growing closer, as you huddle together to ward off the inevitable shitstorms which are hurled at you. I call it joyous co-dependency--maybe not the kind where as as you die the other person's life flashes in front of your eyes, but the kind which brings the peace that comes from not having to explain yourself.

We've officially lifted a delicious sparkling beverage in your and Susan's honor--so in the Hensley household, at least, we can guarantee you that you are toast!

Harlan and Susan,
I am a little late on this but I wanted to be among those proclaiming sincere delight at your 21st Wedding Anniversary. I know I already said it, but it's all there in Josh's photos. In those moments he caught the depth of love and affection you have for each other. It's in your eyes and on your faces, more beautiful than anything anyone could ever write or say.

I wish you many, many, many more anniversaries to celebrate one of the greatest love stories in the history of the world.

Much love from y'all's pal in Texas,
Cindy

To Susan and Harlan: Happy Anniversary. Any marriage that's lasted that long gives hope for the rest of us.

Happy belated anniversary, Susan and Harlan. I can't wait to see you guys.

Much love always,

Tony

Hippo Happy
Unt belated happy anniversary to Harlan and Susan, delayed here because I was unfairly distracted by my personal unburdening, yesterday. Happier subject, this.

WISHING HAPPY ANNIVERSARY TO THE ELLISON'S

Mr & Mrs Ellison,

Wishing you a happy 21st Wedding Anniversary, here's to many more.

Raising My Glass to You Both,

Jarod Hitchcock

Belated Happy Anniversary!
Mr. and Mrs. Ellison,

Belated Happy Anniversary! Love that survives the test of time never stops being an inspiration. My parents just celebrated their 41st on Monday the 3rd so it seems to be a good week for anniversaries in general.

22 years together
Harlan and Susan: Congratulations on your anniversary! My wife and I made it to within a month under 14 years at the time of her death last October 1st. While I'm grateful that Susie's no longer in physical and emotional pain, not a day goes by that I don't miss her. Cherish the time you have together. Although I could see her death approaching like an avalanche coming down on us, I still felt blindsided by the actual event. It was so unexpectedly gentle: she went to sleep one night and simply didn't wake up. The last memory I have of her while she was alive was of her smiling at me as I went to bed.

Susan and Harlan, I hope you had a fine anniversary.

Best,
D.

Happy (Belated) Anniversary, Harlan and Susan!

I pray to the Gods that I should be so lucky someday.

Congratulations!
Happy Anniversary to Harlan and Susan!
I've been with my Andrea for 16 years, married for 10.
And I too feel privileged to be allowed to spend my life with her.

Amazing Adam
Adam:

Damnation! When I was still young 'n' single, I spent (too) much of my disposable income on comics, and in pursuit of more informed decisions, most of the time I relied on Amazing Heroes for direction. I still miss it, now and then. Its tone was critical without being condescending, which was far from the case with TCJ. It seemed more interested in proving how high-falutin comics really were than in whether the comics under discussion were worth reading. A toast to you, sir! Salud! And many thanks.

Tad

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY
Dear Susan and Harlan,
Happy Anniversary to the nicest couple I have had the pleasure to meet.
Harlan,I took your advice and everything worked like a charm.
The Best is yet to come !

In one-hour-thirty-seven-minutes (how the heck should you write that, anyway?), hubby and I will celebrate our 12th anniversary. So, at his request, I'm passing on his belated best wishes to Mr. & Mrs. Ellison.

As a penniless celebration, we used up the last of an AMC theater gift card from Christmas to see THE BORNE ULTIMATUM. Good story, nicely tied in with the others. There were stylistic elements that played a bit heavily to the first two films, but still a fine evening out. Check it out if you've seen the other two movies, but again don't expect it to play out like the books.

*****

The fortune in my son's fortune cookie from dinner out with his grandmother: "It's not reality which is important, but how you perceive it."

Anniversary
A happy belated Anniversary to Harlan and Susan both. My wife and I are at 19 years in our marriage, and we both wish you all the best futures.... And yes, this is a day late, but it's my own birthday today and I've been kept blessedly busy by my family for the past couple days...

I had a gift card for B&N to spend and, heh, I abused it royally of course. And they had The Essential Ellison, which I already had, but nothing else by Sir Harlan, grumble, grumble.

But still; amongst other goodies I glommed, including Bugliosi's giant new book on the JFK Assassination (and I truly hope it was worth the price of admission), I picked up the novel Deeper by Jeff Long, and I was wondering if anyone here has read that or its predecessor, The Descent?

Jeff Long focuses his fictions somewhere in between magic realism and, er, rock climbing. I think he's succeeded in blending the two in the past, AND: If no one here has read The Wall by him which came out last year; well, then I'd hope you'd do so and I'd hope that you'd be impressed - the first few pages deal with a mortal plummet off of a cliff face. And, damn, but it read like poetry: shades of James Dickey at his best. And the rest of the book didn't disappoint either.

I'm just saying.

Scott McKinley

OK so i didn't have the exact date down but knew September was the month...happy anniversary Harlan and Susan!

not-online-every-day,

Kristin

BUD WEBSTER:

Hi, Bud ... can't help you on that one. It was AJ's pick. I was gone by then. AJ had worked with Pohl at Galaxy, when they were fronting for H.L. Gold and putting the magazines together pretty much on their own. He was there when Pohl "rediscovered" Paul Linebarger, and I think that's how the liaison was made. You'll have to ask AyJay on this one, old chum. Sorry.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

"It's the tone I despise, and the tone he seems unable to turn off. I don't personally believe it merits starting up hostilities again, as Peter seems to. But it sure as hell shows a constitutional lack of grace."

Kind of the point, Adam: It's not a matter of starting up hostilities again. As far as Groth and his stalking horses are concerned, the hostilities never stop. Not ever. The lies never stop. He can't help it.

PAD

Tonight's Light Reading
"No Thanks, Mr. Nabokov"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/09/books/review/Oshinsky-t.html

Harlan & Susan, many happy returns! Anniversaries are the best of all holidays - celebrating the love one feels for a spouse has just gotta be the best reason of all to express joy!

Michael & Alia (going on 8 years now)

Anniversary felicitations, and Regency questions
Harlan and Susan, my best wishes for the both of you; Mary and I will have been together a year less than you in a few weeks, and we'll tip our glasses to you as well. You two are both so lucky to have each other.

A few Regency questions, if I may, specifically about _You Will Never Be the Same_ by Cordwainer Smith (who is the subject of my next "Past Masters" piece in HELIX SF). Was this under your watch, or Ajay's? Did you (or Ajay) work with Linebarger to pick the stories, or did he leave that up to you? Were his conservative politics ever a factor in the assembly of the book? Lastly, looking back, what are your feelings about having published the first collection by such an important writer in the field?

(We can, of course, do this by phone, but I didn't want to just call you cold.)

Bud

Mazel tov
Harlan and Susan - congratulations on your marriage now being old enough to drink, even if neither of you ever do.

Harlan and Susan, happy anniversary. It's the ONE day - the ONE celebration - that justifies every cliche sentiment.

So, I'm going to take advantage of that:

An Asian man was trying to exchange yen for dollars. He asked the American bank teller, "Why it change ? Yestoday I get two hunant dollar fo yen. Today I get hunant eighty."

The bank teller replies, "Fluctuations!"

The Asian man says, "Well, fluc you white guys too!"

Groth
Despite my admiration for much of what Fantagraphics publishes, and my own years of working under the Fantagraphics banner, my main problem with Gary Groth has always been exactly what Peter David writes about: his evident belief that expressing critical dislike of something means completely annihilating the creator's character.

Thus, if you're Gary Groth, it is not enough to say (picking one name at random, and with (I hasten to assure Peter) no particular agenda) that Peter David's work is not your cup of tea, or that you consider his stories subpar, or that you see this flaw and that flaw in his published work, or even that his work exemplifies a certain kind of commercial storytelling that you separate from the particular kind of art you prefer to champion. It is not even enough to call Peter David's work juvenile, adolescent, obvious, or derivative -- all judgments we might argue for or against, but which are well within the common critical vocabulary. I've gotten worse reviews myself.

No, to be Gary Groth you must call Peter David a malevolent, cynical hack corrupt to the very core, a sniggering destroyer of trees whose millions of word of fourth-rate flummery have all been in support of corrupt corporate despoilers, with the specific purpose of cruelly destroying the minds of his readers. This is not a critical scalpel, but a critical carpet-bomb, and though it looks hifalutin and sophisticated, it's actually laziness of the worst sort, and it's a style that he has tried to instill in too many of the people writing for his publication.

There's more, of course: personal stuff, like when he canceled the particular Fantagraphics critical publication I worked for, AMAZING HEROES, and made sure I knew that he considered the idea of me contributing to the COMICS JOURNAL instead a risible joke -- which it may or well not have been, but is still a hell of a way to treat somebody who works for you; there were other ways to reject my query that did not qualify as open insults. And then, of course, there was my one and only conversation with Kim Thompson, which put them on my shit list. And the whole Enemies of Ellison thing was just stupidity. But I read the text of his five-hundred word statement as just business as usual. It's the tone I despise, and the tone he seems unable to turn off. I don't personally believe it merits starting up hostilities again, as Peter seems to. But it sure as hell shows a constitutional lack of grace.

Happy (Belated) Anniversary!

Harlan and Susan -
Cris and I are out of town and just happened to log in. Happy 22nd, a day late but hopefully less than a dollar short.

Congrats. Couldn't happen to a nicer couple.

C&S

22 years

Happy Anniversary, guys.
22 years. The words look so small.
I'm getting married next year. Leap day. Before i met Kathy, it had been a very long time since there was truly"someone", let alone someone i thought i could care for/would put up with me, for five, let alone 22-plus years. Some people can do it and some people cannot, but just like writing, throwing a perfect change-up, gumbo that wants to slide off the overturned spoon, but hangs on for dear life, or any other art form, it is so very good when it is done well.
It looks so easy, but is in fact quite difficult, and needing more work than is immediately recognized by those who have never attempted it. The balancing of intangibles such as time and attention, love that lasts for years ..... this is going to be good.
In Harlan & Susan's relationship is the message I tell people all the time, in any situation. If you want it, the obstacles don't matter.

See? It can be done.

Many happy returns,
Paul Richards

Frank - no dissing was intended and I'm glad none was received. I really ought to know better than to post on Friday afternoons; I'm barely capable of coherent conversation, much less clear writing.

Harlan and Susan, my most heartfelt congradulations to you. May happiness follow you everywhere. I hope my wife and I are as fortunate.

DTS,

Better not say those things aloud, or Matt Stone and Trey Parker will make fun of you on the next SOUTH PARK episode.

Yes, the Southwest deal was not fascism, just a dumb conservatism, from an airline that has been raking in the rubish buck for nar a while.

Corporations are fascist, at least in their structures of power and how they weild that power, but that's another matter, better left to my wonderful forum. Forum of the year, I'd say.

--------------

Oh, poor, poor Susan, my heart goes out to the girl. Poor Susan!!

Takes out the blues organ and the harp; an ode to Susan's troubles--living with the beast from Ohio, transplanted to sunny La la. Poor, poor Susan, our hearts weep.

Oh, you know I am kidding. Much love to the happiest couple this side of the River Styx. We all hope for love that endures, while most of us wait in vain. Much love you lovebirds.

I need the blues not you two.

------------

In the Atlantic Monthly, there is an article called, The Case Against Foodies. I'm sure this will not sit well with certain people here.

I do bring light, but sometimes that harsh kind that they interrogate thugs with.

"I hadn't realized Groth had presented his statement on the Fantagraphic lawsuit. As to the opening commentary.....ye gods, if that's not a personal attack I can't rightly say what is!"

Yes, exactly. It's sad that Groth's supporters aren't capable of keeping two thoughts in their heads simultaneously: The parameters of what the agreement obviously called for versus what Groth actually wrote. Instead Groth's comments overwrite the previous information and they cry foul on Harlan.

The thing that fractures me is that with Groth, it's *all* about personal attacks. I'm wondering: Has Groth ever actually reviewed Harlan's actual *work*? The agreement doesn't touch Groth's right to comment on Harlan's actual writing, which is what one would think a magazine of comic journalism would actually, y'know, do. But has he ever? Not during the time that I was reading the magazine, to the best of my recollection. Has he since? Has he written any reviews of "Dream Corridor," for instance...any of the volumes?

When it comes to Harlan himself, Groth issues a stream of invective and personal insults that seems to stem more from a child-like need for attention than anything suiting an adult. It's as if, unable to obtain the approval from the father-figure that Harlan once represented, he hurls insults and jabs so that at least daddy will notice him. It's really kind of pathetic, even scary.

Meantime, when it comes to Harlan's actual work, Groth seems to have no more than a superficial interest. There's a word for that type of person. Now what was it...right on the tip of my tongue...

Oh. Right.

He's a Harlan Ellison dilettante.

PAD

To KOS, With Love...
HEY KOS: When I typed that post, referring to our society one whose mores are increasingly influenced by conservative/fundamentalist mores, and tossing out the word fascist, I was thinking of things like the Patriot Act and ths suspension of Habeas Corpus (so that government minions could torture and detain whenever they wanted)....

I was thinking of a time near the end of the Clinton administration (but just before the Columbine shootings) when I rightly went to war with the school administration at my daughter's elementary school (because of a truly shitty teacher who actually did things like tell the students NOT to talk to their parents, and that she knew best, etc., etc.). During that stressful (for me and my daughter) period of time, the school kept a file one me -- because I complained about a bad teacher (who was eventually fired, but only AFTER my daughter and I moved on) and didn't back down...they also, and this is ironic, called one "Officer Friendly" to the school one afternoon after one of my complaints. I thought he was there for different reasons. It was only after I struck up a conversation with him, while waiting for my daughter, that I realized the ARMED policeman was there because the administrative arm of that school had decided the annoying dad was a danger...

I was thinking of an incident last week, during which I had to wire some money to my wife in Australia. A banker had to ask me -- a guy who has no record, felony or otherwise, and who has served honorably with the military -- half a dozen personal questions, "because of The Patriot Act," before wiring the money to my spouse. With absolutely no irony, she spouted out, "if you don't have anything to hide, it shouldn't be a problem."

I was thinking of Ed Meese, of the Reagan administration, and of former Attorney General Ashcroft who decided he needed to cover up a statue, because it was naked, before making public addresses....

I was thinking of how current administration -- and a particularly heinous mass media mogul who runs a television broadcasting system that incorporates an animal in its name (not to mention owns MANY, many newspapers, thereby affecting the mindset of literally millions -- have influenced public behavior and belief, from not questioning the government, because it is "unpatriotic," to believing everything they are told when sitting down to suck at the glass teat.

I was thinking of how I am treated like a pariah -- a child molestor would be more welcome -- when I mention that I'm an atheist to anyone here in the land of "13 different churches that stand within 5 square miles," of how a neighbor once seriously asked me if my daughter might be a witch because, at six years of age, she mentioned how her mom had put a "protective spell" over our house to keep her safe during thunderstorms, and that she would get her own powers when she was 16.

I was thinking of a conversation I had with an elderly gentelman -- at the home of an 84 year-old friend of mine across the street (who flew 30 missions in B-17s durint WWII) ---- during which the guy said that he had no problem with the illegal wire taps, Patriot Act, etc., put in place by Bush and his storm troopers...the elderly gentleman, whose first name was Edmund but whose last name will remain unmentioned, said he had no problem with alla that because, "it doesn't affect me."

I was thinking of all of those people on the plane, none of whom would complain if they knew what was going on between the girl and the airline employee -- and I was thinking of the girl, who didn't protest loudly, as she should have -- largely, I think, because of the atmosphere of distrust and compliance, because the government is in the middle of a war on terrorism, and anyone acts up too much will fall under suspiscion(don't make waves or you'll be hauled away and never seen again)...

I was thinking of a story my mom, who was living in what was once called East Germany, when she was a child, told me...about how her father, who ran a Gasthaus and butchershop, once gave meat to some folks who had recently been "reported" to the local authorities...and how my German grandfather then fell under suspiscion, because he did something not sanctioned by the government...later, after the war had begun, and my grandfather, who was a courier, had left the town, his family was told they would have to leave the Gasthaus and butcher's market and live elsewhere...none of the townspeople complained...

Although I used a bit of hyperbole, I was thinking, KOS, of how societies can grow more and more tolerant of repressive behavior (because the church, which has, perhaps, gained a lot more influence in the governement, or those in charge of the governement, decrees something immoral or dangerous, or whatever)...that's all...I was just thinking about stuff like that...

But you, and Harlan, are absolutely correct. There was no fascist or repressive or conservative motive behind the airline employee's actions. He was just being inept.
Have a nice day.
Love,
DTS

Happy Anniversary to the hardest working couple in show-biz.

Harlan, you're a lucky, lucky man.

And Susan, you're clearly a *saint*.

Best wishes as always to the both of you.

Groth
Todd Cassel,

In the event you haven't located it yet, here's the link to the Groth rebuttal:

http://www.fantagraphics.com/news/news.html

Happy Anniversary to Harlan and Susan!

and

Condolences to Tom Hensley and Harlan on Joe Hensley's passing.

Forgive the second post, but I believe wishing Mr. & Mrs. Ellison a very happy anniversary is a better reason than most to bend the rule.

S.

Happy happies
Harlan and Susan:

Happy anniversary to the two of you, may it be as blissful as humanly possible.

That's all, and enough.

Tad

happy anniversary
Congratulation Susan and Harlan, you can tell when your together what being a happy couple is all about, enjoy the night.
Jeff

To the lovely lady and the snarky puppy: Happy anniversary!
And countless more....

Where Groth?
I see discussion on Groth's rebuttal, but I don't seem to be able to find it on the site. Why do I feel so stoopid?

-TODD

Eureka!
Second post of the day and I'll shut up. Chino Pozo was Chano's cousin. Funny coincidence: they were both born on the same year in the same city.

Chano and Chino and Cubans' fondness for nicknames
Well, Harlan, Tom is actually right. There was another percussionist by the name of Francisco "Chino" Pozo who was botn in Havana in 1915 and died in the 70s. And like Chano, he played with Machito and Dizzy Gillepsie in the 50s. He later went on to play with Paul Anka and died in Las Vegas.

Don't know if Chano and Chino are related but I could do some research.

And a happy 22-year anniversary to you and Susan!!! May you celebrate 20, 30, 40-years more of eternal bliss.


Your Latin-music (and some Celtic and some electronic and some jazz) flying-monkey guru,
Alejandro

Congratulations!
Harlan and Susan -- Congratulations!

Happy anniversary, you two! Many more to come, I hope.

Chuck

HARLAN & SUSAN
Boy, are you two lucky! xx

The difference between a writer and a Writer.

"...I labored over the subtleties..."

Harlan and Susan:
A VERY HAPPY ANNIVERSARY-may you lovebirds have many more!
Cheers, Colleen

TODAY IS .............

The 21st Anniversary of Susan's and my marriage.

22 years together, 21 years married.

I love my honey more today than yesterday, 22 times more than the day in July 1985 when I first set eyes on her heart-tuggingly piquant loveliness. My heart wells with absolute joy that I have been permitted to trot along behind her, like a snarky puppy with his tongue hanging out and his button eyes agleam.

Today is ...

-h

I am in total agreement with KOS anent the Ebbert/Southwest Airlines Idiot matter. Not even remotely Fascism.

As I have said before:

90% of Everything we name as Evil, is more properly chalked up to Ineptitude.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

P.S. TO TOM HENSLEY

On the matter of doing a volume of Joe's letters.

Of course!

Had Joe been a mundane or spartan correspondent, well, then, okay, who gives a shit if the letters are published or not.

But he was an epistomological gourmand, and NOT to expose the Dr. Johnsonlike missives would be not just a shame, I think it would be a felony.

As to the rigors of getting permission from a plethora of men and women, well, half or more than half of them are likely underground already, so lah dee dah, let the snarky hiers make a small demand. Or, smarter, pay a "favored nations" fee of, say, five bucks to each and every person still alive, or to the estate. Pay no more than five to ANYone, and if they beef, well, fuck'm. Publish theetters with a note that every legitimate effort was expended to contact all interested parties. And later, since I suspect only a small press would be up for a project like this, if any stupid or greedy second-generation git makes a mewl...well, you offered, they refused, we got no money, take us to pauper's court.

I think you'd have no barriers to doing this.

I am available for consultation.

Honest Joe was m'friend, Father Flanagan. He wasn't heavy, he was jus' B*I*G.

Yr. Pal, Harlan

David Loftus wrote:

"I'm a little surprised that no one's yet noted the passing of Madeleine L'Engle. Here's a NY Times story about her:"

The child in me will now curl up in a corner of my bedroom with a comfortable pillow and well worn blanket and have a good cry.

*****


Mr. David,

I hadn't realized Groth had presented his statement on the Fantagraphic lawsuit. As to the opening commentary.....ye gods, if that's not a personal attack I can't rightly say what is!


Sandra

TOM:

CHANO POZO, not "Chino."

Used his horrific, senseless death at the start of one of my stories; can't remember which, at the moment.

Kee-rist, Hensley! Chano Pozo! Jeezuz, kid, now I IS impressed!

Yr. Pal, Joe's Diminutive Buddy

STEPHEN in GERMANY:

I thank you. "Grail" is one of my personal favorites among my works. It came hard, I labored over the subtleties, and I was content with the outcome. Yeah, nice story, I think.

I'm not so sure, though, that a story of that length, that internal complexity, and pacing would work in a format of teleplay intended to run something like 47 minutes actual running time, broken repeatedly by commercials for rectal suppositories and cars SHAPED like rectal suppositories.

Nonetheless, I crimp your claw in gratitude.

Yr. pal, Harlan

Kyla Ebbert and Southwest Airlines
RE: Herr DTS and the post about "Heil to NeoConservatives and Fundamentalists" or some such silliness.

(see http://blogs.usatoday.com/sky/2007/09/whats-appropria.html?csp=34 for details on this silliness)

While I am neither a neoconservative nor a fundamentalist (presumably of religion,not of some other ideology), I do note that it was also neither a neoconservative nor a religous fundamentalist that TRIED to get Ms. Ebbert to change her clothes (I also note she contineued on her scehduled flight, though she was understandably humiliated by the experience. A slam-dunk " Ka-Ching !"in court, seems to me). It was an employee of SouthWest Airlites. Not a fascistic government minion intent on destroying civil liberties. An hamfisted employee of a private company that accosted Ms. Ebbert on his employers property (one of their airplanes), that Ms. Ebbert did not meet some bizarre interpretatiosort of some sort of unofficial dress code.

Seems to be a case for the ICC and courts to handle. I imagine Ms. Ebbert will have already spoken to an attorney about this.

But:

It's not Nazism. It's not even fascism. Tres silly, nay Silly with un "S" to cry "Wolf/Fascism" at instances in which some Other Silly Person does something Silly.

This is a case of Mrs. Gundy telling one of her boarders she doesn't like "her kind" and pleae move out. Small minded. Petty. Nlue Nosed. NOT a political matter. We have civil courts to resolve such things. The personal is NOT political, and making it so cheapens what is.

It's wrong to equate Mussolini, Franco, Hitler and Stalin (a Fascist in all but name) with some goofball who tells a Hooters waitress she is showing a little too much tit for his companies taste.

But then again, it's a free country. I can even egregiously insult an aggrieved hooters' waitress. She'll get at elast a hundred thousand from this. not to mention the publicity.

KOS

TOM HENSLEY: Thanks for your appearances here; I hope they will be oft-repeated. Also, my condolences to you on your brother's passing; he certainly was one of the Good Ones.

As for the label "Astroturf": The only thing I can think of is the usage I have seen on several political fora, in regard to false "grassroots" organizations or campaigns which are actually revealed to be funded or fomented by corporations or lobbies. False grass-roots, hence "Astroturf".

(and as a sports fan who had to suffer through teams doing their level best to survive whilst playing on the evil stuff for decades here in Philadelphia, I think we can all agree that Astroturf is EVIL.)


With regard to the whole Scribd fiasco--is it possible that the WGA, HWA, RWA, MWA, and whatever other organizations there may be of this nature could band together with the the to endow a tiny nonprofit, employing two or three researchers and wielding power of attorney regarding copyright to search out copyright piracy and deliver DMCA notices? It would be a small expense, I should think, and could even be done on a part-time basis.

RIP, fantasist for the children in us

I'm a little surprised that no one's yet noted the passing of Madeleine L'Engle. Here's a NY Times story about her:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/08/books/07cnd-lengle.html?_r=1&ref=arts&pagewanted=all&oref=slogin