Unca Harlan's Art Deco Dining Pavilion

Discussion of the man and his work.

Welcome to the Art Deco Dining Pavilion! Here's the deal. This is Harlan's little breakfast nook at Webderland. When he's not here, we chat about him and his work. When he is, we act like we're guests in his home. That's about all there is to it. (link to More specific rules) Oh, and since the nook doesn't exactly hold a crowd (and to prevent the less frequent voices from being drowned out), please limit yourself to one post a day unless Harlan asks you a direct question. The Pavilion Annex is available if you're the logorrheic type. Also, we have archives of old posts. RSS Feed

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Displaying board posts 1 through 25 - showing messages at a time.

Adam-Troy Castro <adamcastro999@yahoo.com>
- Tuesday, February 9 2010 7:51:9

Harlan on THE BIG BANG THEORY
I can think of any number of reasons why Harlan on THE BIG BANG THEORY would likely be comic gold, and any number of reasons why it would probably be a bad idea.

I'll have to be satisfied with my personal experiences, at various conventions, seeing Harlan Vs. The Boys of BIG BANG THEORY Live. If you know what I mean.

(I was a little startled by Sheldon's deep loathing of BABYLON 5, which seemed to come out of nowhere given his love of stuff like FIREFLY, but then realized: he's a guy who sees STAR TREK as the pinnacle of western civilization; anything that challenges that crown by playing in the same sandbox would be suspect on mere principle. Not a point of view I'm unfamiliar with.)


Ray Carlson
Chicago, - Tuesday, February 9 2010 7:3:19

Prez Rules

Just finished reading "Rules for Radicals" by the other, greater, Chicago community organizer, Saul Alinsky. It's a real eye opener.

I wonder if Unca Harlan ever crossed paths with Saul during his stay in the "city of big shoulders"?


Wade
Seattle, Washington - Monday, February 8 2010 22:13:26

The Big Bang Theory
On this week's episode of THE BIG BANG THEORY they had a mention of Babylon 5. I keep thinking it would be great to see Harlan show up on Big Bang and address the most stupid Trekkie questions he's ever been asked. It's just a thought.


Brian Phillipsri
McDonough, GA - Monday, February 8 2010 20:46:54

Note to Harlan Ellison. Joe Monk? Also, a link to a good story.
Josh Alan Friedman's blog has many nice entries, however, I would like to make note of this entry about Joe Monk:

http://joshalanfriedman.blogspot.com/2010/01/joe-monk.html

Knowing full well that I cannot try to stump our esteemed host about Jazz, I am highlighting this entry to say that if you were a fan of Monk's playing, the only released recording of his work is now available, if you don't already own it.

End of the note to Harlan Ellison.

END--END--END

For those who would like to hear a good story about how broken USA's health care is, I encourage you all to listen to "This American Life". The episode is entitled "More is Less" and it is a story that does not take sides but it does rather nicely state just how deep the problem is. Right-Wing, Left-Wing, everyone should listen to this.

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/Radio_Episode.aspx?episode=391

Brian Phillips


SubtropicBob <SubtropicBob@MensPulpMags.com>
Key West, FL - Monday, February 8 2010 20:23:36

Wyatt's post about Josh Alan Friedman
Wyatt -
Thanks for the heads up on Josh Alan Friedman's blog posts about men's adventure magazines. While exploring his blog I saw the promo for his new book, Black Cracker, which sounds interesting -- and discovered that Josh is also an excellent guitar player and singer, which I did not know. After seeing the video clips on his blog, I found some of his albums on Amazon and more videos on YouTube. He's damn good! Thanks again and best regards...
- SubtropicBob



Moon Shots
Bronx Blastoff - Monday, February 8 2010 18:11:46

"The only folks on the moon in 1968 were Roky Erickson and Syd Barrett."

You forgot Alice Kramden.


HARLAN ELLISON
- Monday, February 8 2010 15:52:22

REPLY TO RICK WYATT

Re: the note you forwarded from my old compadre, Bob Nissim...lo these last 35+ years...until a couple of months ago, when he retired from the exhausting but rewarding gig, as head of The Musical Heritage Society and The Jazz Heritage Club.

So, yes, you done good forwarding it.

Thank, mijo.

As always, Yr. Pal, Harlan


Chris Thurlow <christopherleethurlow@yahoo.com>
Tehachapi, CA - Monday, February 8 2010 15:42:50

Harrison Bergeron...2081
I just had the pleasure of watching a short film adaptation of Kurt Vonnegut's Harrison Bergeron entitled 2081.
It is superb.
This films perfect 25 minutes was so potent it literally choked me up and brought a tear to my eye.
I ordered the DVD from Amazon on a whim and boy am I glad I did.
The director, Chandler Tuttle, is someone who's next film I will be anxiously awaiting.


Semi-Writer
Los Angeles, CA - Monday, February 8 2010 14:3:10

Health Care
Mark G: very well said. The health care system is NOT working for the majority of the population and has not BEEN working for quite some time. The pre-existing condition clause in particular is a sign of the loss of America's soul. Birth defects, accidents and illness aren't exactly planned events; they just happen, and to be denied medical coverage because of something that was out of your control is downright heinous.

-----------------------------

A little personal note, here. I'd been beating down my car loan for over six years; I've said before how it's taken care of now, but before that happened, I asked a relative (cousin) for help. This individual built his own home, he is a very nice family man with a good life, and I've never bothered him for anything before... so I wondered if he could help me out for at least one month's worth of car loan payments ($223). He said "no," because he's got family tuition issues to worry about right now, with his daughter heading off to college this year.

To be clear, I don't have the slightest bit of resentment or bitterness for him saying "no." He has his life and priorities to worry about, after all. It was painful and humbling to ask, yet I'm glad that I did and I suppose that the rejection for such an out-of-the-blue question was quite deserved. But looking at his vacation photos online is hard; my car loan for one month would've been what must've been at least the cost of dinner, gambling and the hotel room for one night in Sin City.

You all here have shown me more consideration and kindness than family members (outside of my mother and father) have, and bless ya for it. Your collective help in its various forms has kept me fighting here in L.A., and goddamn it, you're more family than I deserve.


Sara Slaymaker <saraslay@gmail.com>
Malvern, PA - Monday, February 8 2010 13:53:35

STEVE (and anyone else in the Philly area): if you get a chance, come out and see me in Sephora at the King of Prussia mall tomorrow. I work from 11 - 7 - which means I get home JUST in front of the snow, hurrah.


Mark Goldberg <markabaddon@gmail.com>
Minneapolis, - Monday, February 8 2010 13:33:16

Susan, issue 49 arrived late last week, my apologies for not notifying you earlier. I will be ordering something from HERC within the next few weeks and will make sure my new address is included in the order form

Mr. Barber, have a safe trip to my old stomping grounds in Philly (and if you are not snowed in, definitely try to go to Geno's for a great cheesesteak)

On Barber's post from a couple of days ago, I also would like to see a third party form out of the ashes of the current system, one with a sense of social responsibility yet linked to economic pragmatism. Sadly, I am not sure it is a likely outcome. While the players have changed over time, this has been and probably will continue to be a two party system. With the current economic structure, I just do not see much room for a viable third party to do more than play a spoiler role in key elections. One prediction I will make is that there may be more of a splintering of the Republican party as the relgious right becomes disenchanted with the lack of attention to their issues. I do not foresee them splitting off (although that is a possibility) but rather withdrawing from the political scene, which would have a tremendously negative effect on the Republican party's chances in any non-Southern political contest.

On the Republican party, I may have linked to this before and if I have, I apologize, but this is from Nate Silver's 538.com:

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/02/mcgop-virtues-and-vices-of-sameness.html

This survey shows how there is a fundamental similarity across demographic groups within the Republican party. Barber's assertion of greater spectrum of opinions within the Dem brand ain't hyperbole, it is a fact.

Now, as to Kate's comment about how we will pay for nationalized health care. I could cite stats like this from CNN:

"In the United States, every person spends on average $6,714 for health care. That's significantly higher than in the United Kingdom, where $2,760 per person is spent; or in France, where the cost is $3,449 per person; or in Canada, where medical costs are $3,678 per person, according to the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development. While some would argue that medical care is better in the United States than in these other countries, others would say the opposite is true. For example, the United States ranks 50th in life expectancy, and 180th infant mortality (meaning 179 countries have higher infant mortality rates such as Angola and Turkey and 43 countries have lower infant mortality rates such as France and Sweden)"

or link to this article from the LA Times about nationalized health care saving money for people and boosting jobs:

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-health-jobs8-2010jan08,0,1333736.story

but here is the simple truth: our health care system is not working. It works mostly for the middle class and above (except if you have a pre-existing condition) but if you don't have a job, are at a small employer, or do not have much to get by you are pretty much screwed.

I do not pretend to have all the answers on this, as this is one of the most complex issues we are dealing with as a nation. However, it massively pisses me off when people make blanket statements and are dismissive without giving a thought to others. Harlan has said it best before (and if I misremember the quote please do not disembowel me) "you do not have a right to your opinion. You have a right to an informed opinion".

Rant done.

Mark


Roger Gjovig
- Monday, February 8 2010 12:53:40

That would be "had lost". Sorry for the typo.


Roger Gjovig <rlgjovig@aol.com>
- Monday, February 8 2010 12:48:57

It was a very tough weekend. I learned Thursday night my cousin Duane's daughter Jessica and lost her husband Josiah to lung cancer. He was diagnosed Easter of last yeat and it had already spread through his lungs so far it was not treatable. He did not live even a year since that time and it was a very tough time for the family to balance trying to help him and also their two young babies,of which their daughter Ava was a miracle baby. She was born premature with many health problems and they thought they were losing her a number of times during her stay at the University of Iowa Hospital in Iowa City. They lived in Saylorville between Des Moines and Ames and many times when they thought they were losing Ava, Josiah would make the two hour drive to the hospital to be with her and then back the two hours to work the next morning. There were at least six hundred people at the funeral at Saylorville Baptist to say goodbye to him for now but we have the assurance we will see him again in Heaven.

We are in the midst of another snowstorm today, six to ten inches this time, incredible. I will be so happy to see Spring this year. To all of you, especially Harlan and Susan, take care.


SUSAN ELLISON
- Monday, February 8 2010 12:38:58

HERC STUFF
Mike Jacka - Received your renewal. Thank you.

Mark Goldberg - Will need your new address. And will send a replacement. No worries.

Jeff R. - Back Issues: We did go back pretty but, after losing the templates, it will be on a request basis. Rabbit Hole #1 and #5 are out-of-print. If you join: ask, I'll do my best. If you're going to join, do it before next issue.

RH #50--don't know what, but it will be cool.

Alisha - Thank you for your kind words.

All best--Susan


mark spieller
San Mateo, California - Monday, February 8 2010 11:39:40

Another passing.
Kage Baker, a wonderful writer, friend, and all around good person passed away a week ago after a year long fight with cancer.

I won't go into the details of that fight. I will say that she was one of the smartest, funny, and overall sharp persons I knew. It was natural for her to turn to writing after telling so many stories, and developing characters that she would put into play at RenFaires, Dickens Fairs, and other places where she and her closest friend Kathleen invested their time.

All of Kag can be found in her series about "The Company" concerning a number of immortals, employed to bring precious, rare items from the past to the future. They contain all her interests, humor, and talents. The historical background dead on, the smallest details always right, but it is all together by the characters, the immortals who pass through time,and remain in many ways more human and subject to foibles then the "mortals" they work with and serve.

If you are seeking out something to read, you would not be disappointed in finding something by William Tenn, and you will be equally pleased by something by Kage Baker. Turning a page and reading their words is the best tribute we can give them


Frank Church
- Monday, February 8 2010 11:32:6

Kate, dear Kate, we already pay for healthcare. Do you have insurance? What if something happens to you? You will get a bill, trust me.

There are the back end costs. We subsidize corn growers; they have loads of corn they cannot sell. It is used as scrap feed to feed pigs and bulls, lowering the costs of meat but making the quality of the meat poor. Pop makers got rid of sugar and now use high fructose corn syrup in their awful concoctions. They do this to lower their costs, but pop rates get higher. That sweetener not only changes the taste of the drink (shows how much these corporations care about their brand names quality index), it raises levels of type-2 diabetes, that hits children and makes us all fatter.

Our taxes pay the costs. We will pay, one way or another.

I do agree that mandates are bad. People shouldn't be forced to buy insurance, but they should pay for other people. It's called the commons.

-------------

Sainttttssss!

Now about that onside kick! That amazing two point conversion catch, that--wow!

Saintssss.


Keeney <rick_keeney@yahoo.com>
Minneapolis, MN - Monday, February 8 2010 11:30:43

RIP Philip Klass


~sigh~


Darryl <No>
Bay Area, CA - Monday, February 8 2010 11:5:34

Saints, 'Dat's Who
So, I carry in my pocket a small pewter oval, one side fleur de lis, and the other side says "Believe." I'm a little happy today, and my son (Saints and LSU fan since he could talk) wore his Saints jersey and jacket to school this morning. Grew up in South Louisiana, and never lost the faith.

Kate, in 2008, the US spent more on defense than China, France, Russia and the UK -- PLUS THE NEXT 10 COUNTRIES COMBINED!!!

For those of you scoring at home, the US spends about 41% of the WORLD'S budget on defense. Politicians talk about waste in other gov't programs, almost never about the wastage in the DOD. I think we could go a long way to paying for a reasonable health care plan if we went there.

Also, the gov't spends a great deal on health care RIGHT NOW. With a more efficient system (doing things like spending money on preventive care, checkups, etc.), we'd actually save money vs. the CBO's projected increase in government spending on health care in the next 10 years.

Be kind to each other.


Kate
- Monday, February 8 2010 9:41:45

Explain to me how we are going to afford the health care system that so many of you are advocating? I just cannot fathom how we can pay for this. I don't believe that the uber rich will shoulder the burden. It will again fall on the already overburdened shoulders of working men and women who do not have the means to afford fancy tax accountants and lawyers to help them hide their money. That is the way these things always work. Well, lunch time is over and it's back to work for me so that Uncle Sam can take yet another bite out of my ever diminishing paycheck.


John Zeock
- Monday, February 8 2010 9:25:57

William Tenn
I started reading SF because of...dinosaurs. If there was one on the cover there I was-Verne, Doyle, Taine, Burroughs. But then came Bradbury who led me to Sturgeon and I was becoming aware of...something else. (I was 12 or 13 at the time) On the back of some Ballantine Book was a notice of all the Tenn books being released at one time and I was intrigued. Oh my god...it was being exposed to the British Invasion. Tenn led me to Sheckley and Collier and Dick...and Harlan AKA the Beatles. Thank you Phil for Bernie The Faust and On Venus Have We Got A Rabbi and Of Men And Monsters.


Mary
- Monday, February 8 2010 8:38:20

First of all, a belated hearty congratulations to Shagin...very cool! Saw the cover...hope there are many more to come with your name on it.

Loved the Superbowl last night...whatta game!



Steve Barber <barbergallery@verizon.net>
- Monday, February 8 2010 8:31:14


Actually, Ray, it's demonstrably the opposite.

The Dems have had a very hearty, democratic debate on what should and should not be in healthcare. Republicans have stood side, periodically shouting "You're not listeing to me" without even a single step towards participating in the debate. (Change that, the two Maine Senators participated for a time.)

But the Democrats have a spectrum of opinions, and you're denigrating them for not voting in lockstep uniformity. Same on you for insisting everyone in a democracy should have one opinion.

Yes, the Republicans seem to -- which defies logic as well as history. Are you genuinely insisting that every...single..one of the Republicans all hold exactly the same opinion? Of course not, but that's the way they vote. Not democratic, and certainly far more authoritarian than allowing for legitimate debate on the points. During Bush's administration democracy was forgotten while the Republican majority rammed through equally closed-door legislation by enforcing lock-step unison in their ranks.

Some people find this admirable, I find it unConstitutional and authoritarian.

Democracy doesn't work unless everyone participates and is allowed a dissenting opinion. To insist that the Dems (who are allowing dissent and a vigorous debate) are responsible for the current stalemate is lamentable and exactly what Fox News and the Republican Party want you to believe. That you have bought into it is troubling to me. Why is it democracy is bad and should not be allowed to function -- even as dysfunctionally as it should.

A symptom of this is the doubling of filibuster threats and cloture filings in the last three years. Doubling. (And, if you go back before 1992, tripling the historic average.) That's not democracy, it's obstructionism.

However: I hope I am being non-partisan enough to agree that I don't like the closed doors politicking, and even moreso to wish they HAD voted in lock-step -- the work would be done by now. Voting lock-step would be a terrific way to beat consensus into people and to have given us healthcare even without a single Republican non-participatory/non-filibustered vote.

But it wouldn't be democracy.
___________________________________

Philadelphia here I come. I just changed my hotel to be a little closer to the airport come Wednesday morning. I may be staying a few extra days if the weather reports are right...

*sigh*



Ray Carlson
Chicago, - Monday, February 8 2010 7:32:45

Say, What?
Steve Barber:

"Health Care reform, which now looks to be dead because of Republican intransigence". That statement is simply preposterous, my friend.

Let’s review… The Dems own the White House and until last Thursday had a super majority in both houses of Congress and yet still couldn’t pass healthcare. What do Republicans have to do with it? Republicans were not needed.

“Authoritarian Gridlock” and “political constipation” resides within the Dems themselves.

Cindy: You said it all, and much more concisely and eloquently than I.


Adam-Troy Castro
- Monday, February 8 2010 6:8:17

Phil Klass RIP
We have lost Phil Klass, who wrote sf under the name William Tenn.


Wyatt Doyle <NewTextureMail@gmail.com>
Hollywood, CA - Monday, February 8 2010 1:35:53

Josh Alan Friedman on Men's Adventure Magazines
Been more of a lurker than a poster lately, but this I wanted to share.

In happy synchronicity with the recent post by Subtropic Bob regarding his excavations of some of Our Esteemed Host's work in the arena, the never-less-than-wonderful Josh Alan Friedman shares reminiscences on the heyday of "men's adventure" magazines, with particular emphasis on those that thrived under the stewardship of his notable pop, Bruce Jay Friedman.

"Magazine Management" - Part 1 of a series - begins here:

www.BlackCrackerOnline.com

...With more to follow weekly as Sundays turn to Mondays, PST.

Same address offers no shortage of additional Friedman material deserving of your exploration, seeing as you're in the neighborhood.

Best to all (with *BIG* congratulations to Sandra!),

Wyatt


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